'Brilliant Savings' Promo

[MacRumors]

Apple has launched (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/brilliant_savings.html) a new promotion called Brilliant Savings:

Between March 28, 2004, and June 26, 2004, purchase a Power Mac G5 and a 23-inch Cinema HD Display at the same time -- and get $500 back by mail.

The promotion runs until 2 days before WWDC (June 28th) 2004. Early rumors had claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040325174000.shtml) LCD price drops this week... it's unclear if this promotion is related to that rumor.

[robbieduncan]

Apple has launched (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/brilliant_savings.html) a new promotion called Brilliant Savings:



The promotion runs until 2 days before WWDC (June 28th) 2004. Early rumors had claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040325174000.shtml) LCD price drops this week... it's unclear if this promotion is related to that rumor.

Queue the "No New PowerMacs till WWDC" rumours. Add the "No New Displays" rumour to the same list.

p.s. You are missing a "t" in the title.

[isgoed]

Yep, this spells no Powermacupdates. Will we see the 3.0Ghz at WWDC than? I really had a feeling about 30 march....

[CmdrLaForge]

This really looks like no updates until WWDC ! Not good news at all. How can they not update the G5s for a complete year !

:mad:

[Chaszmyr]

This really looks like no updates until WWDC ! Not good news at all. How can they not update the G5s for a complete year !

:mad:


I agree it totally sucks... But the current powermacs are still good and they dont NEED an update, we would all just really like an update. I'm hoping this is just trying to push sales of 23'' displays and doesn't mean no powermac updates thuogh

[centauratlas]

Apple has launched (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/brilliant_savings.html) a new promotion called Brilliant Savings ...

They also extended the "More memory for less" promo until June 26th from March 27th. (see http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/morememory_con.html and http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/cp_top_morememory_0327.gif).

To me that is even more telling than the display rumor. It looks like WWDC will be big. It includes the iMac, PM, and Xserve G5s, but not PBs.

p.s. And the "t" is still missing. :-)

[Chaszmyr]

Does MacRumors still believe that PowerMac updates are imminent?

[JasonL]

I hate mail-in rebates. It is just away to make it so that not everyone will get the $500 off. Just take $500 off the price up front I say.

This might not have anything to do with the G5 being delayed (although it may well be until June). The 23" display is due for a major price drop IMHO and the $500 rebate could really stem from that alone.

Well, looks lilke we've got a whole bunch of 'should I wait until after WWDC to buy my new system' threads to look forward to! :rolleyes:

[CmdrLaForge]

They also extended the "More memory for less" promo until June 26th from March 27th. (see http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/morememory_con.html and http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/cp_top_morememory_0327.gif).

To me that is even more telling than the display rumor. It looks like WWDC will be big.

Agree. It really means even more than the display rumors. And I really don't care if WWDC wil be a big event. What if there will be only minor speed bumps and no 3GHz ? No update for a year is IMHO tooo long.

What happen with the PB and iMac and eMac ? No updates as well ?

:mad:

[J-Squire]

This really looks like no updates until WWDC ! Not good news at all. How can they not update the G5s for a complete year !

:mad:

Well.....techinically there was ONE update....the dual 1.8. But that is still pretty pathetic. I was quietly confident that there wouldn't be updates till WWDC. It seemed strange that Apple would so actively promote the current G5's (ie, website main page), and then upgrade them only weeks later. Consumers would feel ripped off. The more likely scenario is they had decided not to update them till June, and so began a new marketing campaign to try to increase sales of the current models.

At least this gives me a bit more faith that we will get 3.0GHz machines in June

[rdowns]

Let the BitchFest continue. With the RAM offer extended and 23" CD promo til end of June, no new models. Apple must be having some major problems with the new G5s. Looks like a full year without an update.

[CmdrLaForge]

I hate mail-in rebates. It is just away to make it so that not everyone will get the $500 off. Just take $500 off the price up front I say.


Could you please explain a little bit more detailed what you mean that not everyone will get $500 off ? I don't understand it.

P.S. Best thing is in February someone here at Macrumors asked if he should better give his newly purchased G5 1.6GHz back. And wait for updated machines. Most people told him to do so (including me :( ) I will never give the advice to wait for any update again.

[javabear90]

ok... thats it. I think I'm gonna buy on the 30th of march. Updates or No. Damn. I should have bought it in December.

[centauratlas]

No update for a year is IMHO tooo long.


I agree. I can see that they may be constrained for some reason (e.g. perhaps by 970s or something - as they seem to be by drives in the iPod mini), but people are used to frequent updates once you create a behavior and expectation it takes a long time to train people differently. :-)

[Veldek]

Agree. It really means even more than the display rumors. And I really don't care if WWDC wil be a big event. What if there will be only minor speed bumps and no 3GHz ? No update for a year is IMHO tooo long.

What happen with the PB and iMac and eMac ? No updates as well ?

:mad:

OMG, this would be a catastrophe! Imagine Steve Jobs announcing a 2.6 GHz PowerMac one year after the first ones and at the exact date that 3 GHz PowerMacs should be out.

[isgoed]

But the current powermacs are still good and they dont NEED an update
Don't need?? what are you talking about. AMD is at 2.4Ghz on a 13nm process. I want to see a battle of the titans. Bring on the benchmarks.


What happen with the PB and iMac and eMac ? No updates as well ?
:mad:
Very well pointed out. I am actually not waiting for a PM, but for a cheap iMac G5. For that to happen, the G5 first needs an upgrade, then the iMac G5 needs to be released, then the iMac G5 must be out a while to get cheap and then i can buy it.....That is still a long time away.


At least this gives me a bit more faith that we will get 3.0GHz machines in June
Well it gives me less faith.

[Raveny]

perhaps that is only for the displays... apple says that ANY powermac G5 can be combined with a 23" display. An update for G5 isn't impossible. Imagine, on this tuesday apple releases the new powermac and this encourages to buy a display from apple to sell more displays. This is not a promotion to sell more powermacs... or do you buy a display as a main buying and you notice the promo from apple and because of the 500$ discount you buy an extra powermac? i don't think so...

[Stoffel]

Huh. No new powermacs until wwdc? I hope we will see new powerbooks soon.

[centauratlas]

Could you please explain a little bit more detailed what you mean that not everyone will get $500 off ? I don't understand it.


I think what he meant was that lots of people will forget or neglect to send in their coupons on time and even if it is 10 or 20%, that is a large number of people who won't get the $500 off.

That is why they do the mail in rebates vs instant rebates - because they know plenty of people won't comply with the terms.

[thatwendigo]

Could you please explain a little bit more detailed what you mean that not everyone will get $500 off ? I don't understand it.

P.S. Best thing is in February someone here at Macrumors asked if he should better give his newly purchased G5 1.6GHz back. And wait for updated machines. Most people told him to do so (including me :( ) I will never give the advice to wait for any update again.

Most companies that issue mail-in rebates are hoping that the customers won't jump through the necesasry hoops to claim it. In essence, it's making the discount a hassle so that it's more likely that people will buy in expectation of saving, but not actually apply for the cash.

Dell's famous for their difficult process, as if that's surprising. :rolleyes: :p

[thatwendigo]

Very well pointed out. I am actually not waithing for a PM, but for a cheap iMac G5. For that to happen, the G5 first needs an upgrade, then the iMac G5 needs to be released, then the iMac G5 must be out a while to get cheap and then i can buy it.....That is still a long time away.

Go stand in line with DHM, then. The iMac isn't going to be a cheap G5, unless something major happens on the supply side of things. It's running at $1,500 right now, and a lot of the components used in the newer architechture are more expensive than the old ones. That doesn't even start to touch on the R&D needs, the cooling, and so on...

[Windowlicker]

as long as they release new powerbooks/ibooks before the fall i'm happy.. i'm planning to buy a 12"er, but want to wait till new models are available.

[xsmi]

Could the delays be related to Hypertransport 2.0 which is supposed to ship in the 2nd half of this year? With PCI Express Video Cards shipping Q2 of this year (according to ATI) could Apple be waiting to do the entire upgrade in design all at once? Just a thought. I too am dissapointed. But if this is the case, I can wait.

[centauratlas]

as long as they release new powerbooks/ibooks before the fall i'm happy.. i'm planning to buy a 12"er, but want to wait till new models are available.

I am buying something.

What I want is: a dual 2.6 to 3.0 G5 PM (to replace my older dual 800 G4) and a PB G5, any speed on the PB (to replace my really old - 11 year old 540c PB that hasn't worked in 3 years). I can wait on the desktop (but Apple shouldn't be waiting) but I want the PB sooner so I can use it wireless out by the pool this summer without using it via bluetooth and t-mobile. I am afraid I will have to wait on both though, but will do so because I am not going to get another G4 now that the G5 is out. The only way I'd get a G4 is to get the low end with the expectation of trading up as soon as the PB G5 is out.

One thing I do hope is that Apple will announce AND *ship* the PM right away. The "announce and ship 2 months later" plan is a bad idea for obvious reasons.

I think IF this really means that the PM updates are delayed until WWDC (and that is what it seems to be) that we'll be more likely to see something like dual 2.4, dual 2.6 and dual 3.0s announced then, with the 2.4 and 2.6 being immediately available and the 3.0s "shipping in 6-8 weeks".

[CmdrLaForge]

Most companies that issue mail-in rebates are hoping that the customers won't jump through the necesasry hoops to claim it. In essence, it's making the discount a hassle so that it's more likely that people will buy in expectation of saving, but not actually apply for the cash.

Dell's famous for their difficult process, as if that's surprising. :rolleyes: :p

Even if I can't really believe how someone can forget $500 I think you are right. I would definitly prefer instant rebate.

This has been a really slow quarter for Apple. When they released the G5 6 month ago I had really hopes that the slow moto time is gone and things are changing. But with latest news on the iPodmini for rest of the world and this news now I lost these hopes.

I am not in the market for a PM G5, but I hope that Apple is able to release cute new products that helps them to get their marketshare up which helps to get loyal other companys developing products for the Mac market.

[Little Endian]

Steve Job's said 3Ghz within a year at last years WWDC in June 2003 with the introduction of the first G5s. It has now been 9 months since that announcement and about 7 months since the first Generation G5s started shipping in quantity in September of 2003 and we are still at only 2Ghz. Now it is possible that we will not see any G5 update till June 2004 which would make One year from the original 3Ghz remark and 9 months since the first PowerMac G5s started shipping. This next G5 update has to be at 3Ghz whether released anytime from now to WWDC to make Steve's promise true. If we only get 2.4-2.6Ghz max with this upcoming update it will put Steves 3Ghz in a year comment way off as we will not see 3Ghz untill the end of the year at best or at worst early 2005 as there is usually a 6-9 month period between updates. Basically it's 3Ghz or nothing with the next update or Steve Jobs would be making the fool out of himself by being 6 months too maybe even a year off of his promise and we all Know Steve usually never makes such bold statements so here's hoping for 3Ghz with the next update.

I also strongly beleive that we will not see a G5 imac or Powerbook until late this year at best to even the first quarter of 2005. The imac will most likely be bumped up to G4 1.42-1.533 Ghz max. Emac should also be bumped too 1.25-1.33Ghz max and the PowerBook will see another G4 update at 1.53Ghz all happening this summer.

[ionas]

if apple doesn't want to run that promo throughout the release of an "inbetween" revision, and even if noone mentions that, that case is possible, well but if not then we ll see PM updates at WWDC'04.

the question if they are 2.6ghz or 3ghz isnt really important for end users and productive usage - but it is for comparative issues with AMD but more important INTEL.

still I would not say SJ lied, if 3ghz didn't came out WWDC'04 - I'd give "him" time until october for a rev. c then, shipping latest in january or febuary 2005.

I waited so long, and I can stand the pain of windows 2000 a few month more using it since 99 =).

So "personally" I don't care cause I ll buy whatever PM is released at WWDC or before that is around 2000-3000 EUR.

still this is stupid - i want my pm rev. b now! ;)

[jihad the movie]

You only can save 300 dollars on the Cinema Display through the Apple Store for Education.

[jsw]

I hate to be contrary and all, but you folks might have missed the fact that the configuration many of you might have considered - barring update rumors - is now $500 off. To me, that's a pretty good deal.

Of course, I'm also happy that this likely means my investment in a dual-2 last September - I was going to wait for the first rev and just couldn't - seems like a better idea with each passing day... :)

[jnasato]

They also extended the "More memory for less" promo until June 26th from March 27th.

To me that is even more telling than the display rumor. It looks like WWDC will be big. It includes the iMac, PM, and Xserve G5s, but not PBs.

Yah, un update across the whole line would be great and it seems like one of the few things that will satisfy everyone.

I wonder what Steve has in store for us this year...

[jsw]

Go stand in line with DHM, then....

Too late. I think he went with Alienware (thread in Buyer's section). Expect to begin hearing how great it is. He will be right. Doesn't mean the G5's suck, though. But this likely implies we will need to harp more on the "OS X rules" stuff, which is, although true, getting a bit tiring.

[Mr.Hey]

Did we assumed to much here?. We (meaning you :D) thought there would be updates, but the only mention of a rev B had a date of July/04(?). Maybe Steve knew that a slight bump would be a waste of resources/time/money and decided to hold off until 3 Ghz, when he knew more people would be interested. It's not like the competition is roaring ahead -- the P4 is the biggest joke in history( ;) ) and the only other competition is AMD and the two are more or less on par with each other; Apple just needs to update an almost year old processor to get back in the game.

[thatwendigo]

Too late. I think he went with Alienware (thread in Buyer's section). Expect to begin hearing how great it is. He will be right. Doesn't mean the G5's suck, though. But this likely implies we will need to harp more on the "OS X rules" stuff, which is, although true, getting a bit tiring.

Oh... *incoherent mumbling*

Please, let this be an end to the insanity, and not a bridge into an all-new sort of trolling.

[centauratlas]

Steve Job's said 3Ghz within a year at last years WWDC in June 2003 with the introduction of the first G5s.

Then he revised it at the G5 shipping and said "within a year" from September. I posted the link to both a few weeks ago in one of the other threads.
:-)

Edit:
Here is what I had posted on March 8:

What he said was two things at two times (June 23, and Sept 16, 2003):
"We've committed before the end of next summer" to get the Power Mac G5 to 3GHz. That was September 16, 2003, see links below. June 23, 2003, he said (http://www.macrumors.com/wwdc2003.html) it would be at "3ghz within 12 months." I was never clear if he meant 12 months from then or 12 months from release. Given his Sept 2003 statements, I think it meant from release (or they just realized by Sept 2003 that late June/early July 2004 would be too soon and revised his meaning).


Sept 16 links: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news...t=1078732421000
and:
http://www.macminute.com/2003/09/16/appleexpo2
and:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main...cfm?NewsID=6904


*

[iChan]

Steve Job's said 3Ghz within a year at last years WWDC in June 2003 with the introduction of the first G5s. It has now been 9 months since that announcement and about 7 months since the first Generation G5s started shipping in quantity in September of 2003 and we are still at only 2Ghz. Now it is possible that we will not see any G5 update till June 2004 which would make One year from the original 3Ghz remark and 9 months since the first PowerMac G5s started shipping. This next G5 update has to be at 3Ghz whether released anytime from now to WWDC to make Steve's promise true. If we only get 2.4-2.6Ghz max with this upcoming update it will put Steves 3Ghz in a year comment way off as we will not see 3Ghz untill the end of the year at best or at worst early 2005 as there is usually a 6-9 month period between updates. Basically it's 3Ghz or nothing with the next update or Steve Jobs would be making the fool out of himself by being 6 months too maybe even a year off of his promise and we all Know Steve usually never makes such bold statements so here's hoping for 3Ghz with the next update.

I also strongly beleive that we will not see a G5 imac or Powerbook until late this year at best to even the first quarter of 2005. The imac will most likely be bumped up to G4 1.42-1.533 Ghz max. Emac should also be bumped too 1.25-1.33Ghz max and the PowerBook will see another G4 update at 1.53Ghz all happening this summer.

It's true, but the 100 Million songs thing seemed way off the mark also...

as soon as i got the 1.25Ghz 15-inch PB... i don't really care for another speed bump unless it is a complete change in architecture. i.e G5...

a 200Mhz speed bump just doesn't do it for me TBH.

i jumped from a rev A 867Mhz 12-inch PB to a 1.25Ghz 15-inch PB and I can tell you, the perceptible speed difference is negligible... now, with 2Gb of Ram, that would be a different story. Thing is... anything over 1Ghz on a G4 is plenty fast IMO.

I rather like the fact that Apple is taking a chilled out atittude to upgrading their products... I don't know how much a speed bump is going to improve sales of the G5... however, seeing SJ mentioned it, there is an obligation there. The mass market don't really want to wait indefinitely for a speed bump because they know it is going to be superceded anyway. They want to get the best for today.

the mejority of people don't even know about the lack of updates and concentrating on the high-end is problematic for newbies who come here.

[iChan]

i don't see any reason Apple can't upgrade their product matrix sometime in the future...

to have a whole new range of products... or simply to have more processor options in th current ranges and a more varied pricing approach.

should they update, they can keep the current machines... which are probably in hugely plentiful supply now...

[Rincewind42]

... I bet is that they are having troubles shrinking the system controller. Apple recently put out the XserveG5 technote (here: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Servers/XServeG5/ ) and while the system controller appears updated (U3H vs U3) it is still at 130nm. I'm betting if they shipped today they would have to either increase the multiplier (for 667/733/800 for 2.0/2.2/2.4) or increase the cooling to keep the controller from dying a horrible death. Neither is acceptable I think.

However if they wait until summer, they can probably complete the 90nm shrink, get PC4200 RAM, and pull in other technological improvements along with the 3 Ghz promise (which I think IBM is more than capable of). Alas the system controller is Apple's design, so they will have to get experience with shrinking it... apparently the hard way.

[Stella]

It seems to me that if apple update the G5 now, then there won't be a too large gap until the 3Ghz machines come out in summer.

I think its really disappointing to think that there will be no G5 PM update for 12 months. I thought IBM will be a new era for Apple.

[Dont Hurt Me]

This really looks like no updates until WWDC ! Not good news at all. How can they not update the G5s for a complete year !

:mad:every year we get a update and with Apples History of selling overpriced lasts year technology makes it even worse. Again I say they have clowns running the show. You just cant keep pushing old stuff because no one will buy it.( except a few Mac Zealots who tell us 95% of people dont need any speed or power) :rolleyes: G4s are all you need and G5 is way to much . give me a break.

[macridah]

perhaps that is only for the displays... apple says that ANY powermac G5 can be combined with a 23" display. An update for G5 isn't impossible. Imagine, on this tuesday apple releases the new powermac and this encourages to buy a display from apple to sell more displays. This is not a promotion to sell more powermacs... or do you buy a display as a main buying and you notice the promo from apple and because of the 500$ discount you buy an extra powermac? i don't think so...


I agree with you. This probably means that Apple has a lot of 23" monitors left. So instead of just dropping the price of the LCD, their trying to sell more powermacs as well. I bet if this marketing gimmick doesn't work, there will be a drop in the LCD prices accross the board.

[Grimace]

What if, and just if - there will be new displays and powermacs next week. And, this is designed as an extra incentive for people to spend ridiculous cash - all for the purpose of getting more Apples in the market. Take a small $ hit, widen the userbase...

[fenlyn]

I have to agree here. I think this is just a ploy for Apple to get rid of their stock of 23/USB1/Plastics in order to release a 23/USB2/Alum display (maybe even a 30 also). I think they might just be overstocked with 23's because people look at the 23 and and the 20 and think that the difference in price isn't worth it-- and then they purchase the 20.

Perhaps this will shrink their inventory and pave the way for display updates. I think, quite honestly, that this promotion has very little to do with whether or not you will see PM updates between now and WWDC. If anything I think it helps them lower their stock of both 23's and PM's.

Brad

[mklos]

I agree with Stella. It doesn't make any sense what so ever for Apple to introduce Dual 2.5 or what ever PowerMac G5's right now. If they introduce them on March 30th, or even the week after they won't probably be shipping until very late April or early May, then 30 days after it ships Apple comes out with another PowerMac G5 update to 3 GHz? Doesn't make sense to me. Others are talking about ripping people off well I think that is ripping people off right there. Nothing like buying a $2900 PowerMac running at 2.5 GHz and then having that be the low end PowerMac 30 days after it ships for $1000 less. You people aren't being reasonable here. If you want a damn PowerMac G5 then go buy one. If you wait until June, maybe there won't be any PowerMac updates then either! If there are and you buy one your PowerMac will be out of date in about 6 months anyways so why are we all whining about when Apple is going to release the new PowerMacs?

As for a PowerBook G5, yeah like that will happen in the next 5 months....highly doubtful. If you see a PowerBook update its going to have a G4 in it sadly. The G5 gets too hot and uses too much power currently. I think we'll see them at MWSF '05.

iMac G5's could be a possibility at the WWDC along with a PowerMac G5 update. The iMac is 50 times easier to cool than a PowerBook. Plus I'd expect to see Apple introduce a brand new iMac thats been totally redesigned from the ground up.

iBook updates we'll probably see later on in the fall, maybe MW Paris in September? Maybe we could see a PowerBook G5 update then, but then again that wouldn't make any sense if we see a PowerBook G4 update in the near future. Apple wouldn't be shipping them until at least a month after the announcement and then 2 months later they update it again?

I could be wrong though. I've seen Apple do some crazy things before with product updates...

[invaLPsion]

ok... thats it. I think I'm gonna buy on the 30th of march. Updates or No. Damn. I should have bought it in December.

That's how I feel.

[dkgross]

I rather like the fact that Apple is taking a chilled out atittude to upgrading their products...

I agree completely. I bought my dual 1.25 G4 about 2 months before the first G5's came out (xmas 2002), and, as much as I want a G5, trying to justify another $2500 purchase barely a year later is just not gonna happen. A 'modest' speed bump won't be that important".

also..Powermax.com is running the rebate: http://www.powermax.com/cinema.html

[fenlyn]

Hmm... on the coupon it says, "This offer may be combined with Apple's Impress for Less rebate."

What the heck is that promotion?

Brad

[invaLPsion]

every year we get a update and with Apples History of selling overpriced lasts year technology makes it even worse. Again I say they have clowns running the show. You just cant keep pushing old stuff because no one will buy it.( except a few Mac Zealots who tell us 95% of people dont need any speed or power) :rolleyes: G4s are all you need and G5 is way to much . give me a break.

On the 30th, if we don't hear anything at all about powermacs, I am going to take the dive and switch, I am not waiting to WWDC.

I should have bought back in December... Damn.

[jsw]

Oh... *incoherent mumbling*

Please, let this be an end to the insanity, and not a bridge into an all-new sort of trolling.

Ah, but you know how trolls love their bridges....

[jsw]

I bought my dual 1.25 G4 about 2 months before the first G5's came out (xmas 2002)....


You must've known about them very early! I didn't hear about them until 6/2003 and couldn't buy one until 8/2003.

[AppleJustWorks]

Me too, I've been waiting for the updates because currently a :

Dual 1.8 GHz
1 GB Ram
Radeon 9600 Pro
Bluetooth
20" Cinema Display

is $3667

and when the updates are released that same model should be: $2577

That is assuming the following circumstances:
1. That the Dual 1.8 will be starting around the same price as the current Single 1.6
2. They will eliminate the 17" Studio Display and replace it with the 20" at around the the same price as the 17" to make room for the new 30"



I really don't want to wait any longer than this Tuesday, I've been waiting to switch for 8 months, and I'm running a Dell Dimension 8100 with XP!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Dont Hurt Me]

On the 30th, if we don't hear anything at all about powermacs, I am going to take the dive and switch, I am not waiting to WWDC.

I should have bought back in December... Damn.what are you switching to?

[CmdrLaForge]

Go stand in line with DHM, then. ...

No reason to get that unfriendly :D

[rooster1725]

Another reason for mail in rebates is "creative accounting". Apple can still use data from sales figures at full price, then account for discounts seperately.

[365]

I'm desperate for a new Dual G5, I sold my Dual G4 last year thinking that upgrades would be out in March ( 6 months cycle ) and I've been using the family G3 iBook ever since but 3 weeks ago I decided I couldn't cope with the torture of the iBook and bought a brand new HP D530 P4. It cost $700 in a special offer and was a very impressive spec, 2.8 P4, SATA, 800Mhz FSB etc.. Windows XP Pro and a 3 year on site warranty ( I'm sorry but beat that Apple ). The machine was very fast and did everything and more than my old dual G4 but I hated Windows XP so I just sold it and I'm back on the iBook.

I know that people will say, if you need it now buy it now and I would be the first to agree with that but for one thing. If Apple has no upgrades because they are having supply problems that's fine ( it'd be even better if they actually informed us ), the real problem for me is the fact that a series of machines that are 7 months old have seen no price reductions in all that time. Apple want it both ways, they have problems with supply etc.. so can't produce updates in an acceptable timescale but they continue to charge the same price for what are now dated specs.

Come on Apple something has to give, either give us updates or give us price reductions, $500 off a monitor that was over priced anyway isn't playing the game.

[invaLPsion]

what are you switching to?

I've been looking at Falcon Northwest.

The only thing I'm worried about is not being able to use iMovie anymore...

I guess I'll have to get used to adobe Premiere...

[smeddy]

you mention the extension of the discounted memory campaign for imacs, powermacs and servers.

noticeable by their absence are the ibooks and powerbooks.

i dont know if they were initially included in the states, but they were included in the initial campaign in Japan and the PB and iB memory discounts have *not* been renewed.

this had better mean an upgrade is in the works b/c i was planning on buying one soon--upgrade or no--and was looking forward to doubling my memory for peanuts... argh!

[Dont Hurt Me]

I've been looking at Falcon Northwest.

The only thing I'm worried about is not being able to use iMovie anymore...

I guess I'll have to get used to adobe Premiere...interesting not to go off thread but why Falcon, also i have concerns that if i go alienware ill need a good photo App on the Pc side for all my photographs. and 365 is right the 23" was overpriced. why not give $300,$400 and $500 off all the overpriced displays with a new powermac.

[sonicbaz]

It's time Apple shared with the community information on the development situation. IMO nothing hurts Apple more than keeping everything so secret that it makes it near impossible to purchase a new machine without the feeling that anyday there will be a new release to make you feel like a big loser. I read post after post of people hanging out for new boxes, surely if they just give everyone a heads up then we can all make decisions for the future based on FACTS.

Apple would increase their market share by simply getting a solid roadmap out to the public so rather than constant inaccurate vodoo speculation we get cold hard info even if sometimes it's not exactly what we want to hear.

All these rumors have stopped being cute and now it's just a joke. Isn't about time Apple grew up and had a more open and transparent development plan. It baffels me as to why it is all so hush hush anyway.

"SJ...... help us to help you" ;)

baz

[Thor74]

I' have owned Apple/mac products since an Apple IIGS (Wozniak Edition) back in the late 80's.

This is honestly the most dissapointed I have been in Apple in all that time. I am nursing along a dual 867 G4 that is really shopwing it's age. I have been waiting for a B revision of the G5 line for 7+ months.

Lots of super Apple/mac fanatics here, which is great. But come on folks...

Apple is so screwing up right now it is not even funny. We all praised the fall of the Motorola union with Apple powermacs and could not stop talking about how IBM would bring in a new dawn for Apple.

One word.... Bull$_ _ _

Apple will loose more folks than it gains if it really waits a full year for a revision in the G5 line.

And regardless of what some Steve Jobs mega fans think or not. If in fact we do have to wait until June/July for updates, and they do not include the full jump up to 3 gigahertz like Steve Jobs promised....

Well he should step down. Since it will be one of the easiest and actually most honest times Apple nay-sayers in the press/tech world will have to attack the company = loose stock value and embarrase us faithful apple owners... :mad:

[miloblithe]

Hmm... on the coupon it says, "This offer may be combined with Apple's Impress for Less rebate."

What the heck is that promotion?

Brad

Yeah, what is this? I looked around the Apple site, as you must have, and I couldn't find anything. Wild speculation: discounts on current (old) G5s when the new ones are introduced?

Ah to be an optimist.

[snahabed]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have nothing productive to offer this thread. Just growls.

[nsb3000]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have nothing productive to offer this thread. Just growls.

I know...I agree. :(

In the PC world, they get speed bumps every 3 months...Now I can deal with only every 6 months, cuz the Mac market is smaller, but every 12 months? This is ridiculous.

:( :( :(

-Nathaniel

[dkgross]

You must've known about them very early! I didn't hear about them until 6/2003 and couldn't buy one until 8/2003.

good god...has my brain been that fried that I lost a year? Can't be...seems like I've had my MDD dual 1.25 G4 for at least a year now. I've lost all track of linear time :)

nonetheless..it's still too soon to replace it with a G5..no matter HOW much better Logic Pro will run on it :(

[invaLPsion]

It's time Apple shared with the community information on the development situation. IMO nothing hurts Apple more than keeping everything so secret that it makes it near impossible to purchase a new machine without the feeling that anyday there will be a new release to make you feel like a big loser. I read post after post of people hanging out for new boxes, surely if they just give everyone a heads up then we can all make decisions for the future based on FACTS.

Apple would increase their market share by simply getting a solid roadmap out to the public so rather than constant inaccurate vodoo speculation we get cold hard info even if sometimes it's not exactly what we want to hear.

All these rumors have stopped being cute and now it's just a joke. Isn't about time Apple grew up and had a more open and transparent development plan. It baffels me as to why it is all so hush hush anyway.

"SJ...... help us to help you" ;)

baz

I did my part, I just sent off a letter to Apple.

[a17inchFuture]

This really looks like no updates until WWDC ! Not good news at all. How can they not update the G5s for a complete year !

:mad:


Hello, maybe you havent been paying attention, but November was the last time they updated . . . .

Why is it that people who whine about PM updates always neglect to realize that their line is the most recent to have been updated?

I am sorry guys, but get a grip. When the 15 inch PB was introduced (the same middle ground sort of introduction as the Nov 1.8 release) we still had a ten month wait, and that was just for crappy speed bumps.

[invaLPsion]

interesting not to go off thread but why Falcon, also i have concerns that if i go alienware ill need a good photo App on the Pc side for all my photographs. and 365 is right the 23" was overpriced. why not give $300,$400 and $500 off all the overpriced displays with a new powermac.

Falcon has much more choices in terms of configurations and great customer service. Before they ship your computer they have one of their people perform a 30 minute test on every little part of the computer. They load all your software and everything. In adition, the cases that they offer include all sorts of hook-ups. Firewire, Digital in/out, USB 2.0, 5.1 sound card, you name it. I also believe that their prices are better than Alienware and Voodoo.

If you don't want to buy from one of the big PC companies as I don't, get a Falcon. My friend got one and there has been no problems whatsoever. It runs great!!!

[Zaty]

While I can understand that those, who have been waiting for faster powermacs for months, are disappointed with Apple, I'd like to point out that Apple had to do something. With the new/extend promo they clearly say there won't be any updates until WWDC. They had to do this in order to start selling PMs again. Without the promo, speculation on updates would have continued and Apple wouldn't have been able to sell what they have in stocks. Those, who pointed out that an intermediate 2.5 GHz release wouldn't make sense when the next big release will be announced at WWDC. are absolutely right. So my recommendation: If you do need a new PM, buy it now and get the $500 rebate, if you can wait until WWDC, wait as you now know when to expect the new revision. As for the rest of the products, I still believe we'll see a PB G4 upgrade in April (or if we're luck as early as March 30) and new iBook 3-4 weeks after the powerbooks. If WWDC won't bring new G5 iMacs, they might even update those as well. So it's gonna be an interesting time nevertheless.

[a17inchFuture]

I also strongly beleive that we will not see a G5 imac or Powerbook until late this year at best to even the first quarter of 2005.

TO EVEN THE FIRST QUARTER?!?!?!? What are you talking about, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Do you just make up your reasons for believing what you do?

[nagromme]

I wonder if this means there will be PowerBook G5s on tuesday?

(Somebody had to say it... everyone seems to think Apple's PBG5-by-end-of-2004 means "soon," and every rumor turns into that somehow :) )

I think this means problems getting faster G5s, and delays in new towers and displays both. I'm a pessimist.

But this COULD, just possibly, mean a new (and cheaper) display line is coming out--but that the 23" won't be updated with the rest. It will be updated later or replaced with a different size. Rather than delay the whole new display lineup for the sake of the top model, Apple may have decided to let the top model be the old style--with a rebate to compensate. Thus, this promo might mean that new displays of OTHER sizes could be out very soon! And towers need not be delayed either. And then at WWDC, Apple will finally be able to give us the new top-end LCD.

But as I said, that's optmistic and I'm a pessimist :)

I even voted negative! Now... if they'd given $500 off the display alone, with a free adapter so I could add one to my PowerBook, that might have been different :)

[Photorun]

interesting not to go off thread but why Falcon, also i have concerns that if i go alienware ill need a good photo App on the Pc side for all my photographs. and 365 is right the 23" was overpriced. why not give $300,$400 and $500 off all the overpriced displays with a new powermac.

DHM, said it before, I'll say it again, please find a pro peecee forum if you seemingly hate Mac so much. Not sure why you're even here... like, ever! Your icon looks like a troll, is that coincidence?

[jsw]

Wow Apple/Jobs, this is BULLSH**!!!!!!!

No, it's $500 off on a setup many PM buyers want. No one's forcing you to buy it.

[mrgreen4242]

While I can understand that those, who have been waiting for faster powermacs for months, are disappointed with Apple, I'd like to point out that Apple had to do something. With the new/extend promo they clearly say there won't be any updates until WWDC. They had to do this in order to start selling PMs again. Without the promo, speculation on updates would have continued and Apple wouldn't have been able to sell what they have in stocks. Those, who pointed out that an intermediate 2.5 GHz release wouldn't make sense when the next big release will be announced at WWDC. are absolutely right. So my recommendation: If you do need a new PM, buy it now and get the $500 rebate, if you can wait until WWDC, wait as you now know when to expect the new revision. As for the rest of the products, I still believe we'll see a PB G4 upgrade in April (or if we're luck as early as March 30) and new iBook 3-4 weeks after the powerbooks. If WWDC won't bring new G5 iMacs, they might even update those as well. So it's gonna be an interesting time nevertheless.


I agree with you. I am really thinking there will be a PB announcement this Tuesday, and they will start shipping sometime in the first half of April. It will be a G4 upgrade tho, no G5. I have a feeling that at WWDC new PM's will be announced and start shipping almost immediately, and a G5 iMac will be unofficially announced, or strongly hinted at, and hit the streets a month or two later. Around Dec'04/Jan'05 we will see G5 PB's as well. iBooks will see an upgrade about midway between the next PB G4 upgrade and the G5 PB launch. After the G5 PB launch I think the iBook will get the 'old' PB internals for its finaly G4 upgrade, about 12 months from now.

I have this wierd feeling that they will kill the eMac sometime late this year. I think that the G5 iMac will be a new design, and that the old style G4's will become the new entry level systems. The current bottom level iMac is $1,300 now, and in 6 months, even with some small improvements (better video card, more ram, bigger HD) it will be easy to sell for sub-$1000 with a 15" and only a little more for 17". The eMac just LOOKS so outdated. Maybe they will call G4 iMacs eMacs, and call the G5's iMacs?

[isgoed]

Hmm... on the coupon it says, "This offer may be combined with Apple's Impress for Less rebate."

What the heck is that promotion?

Brad

To be pessimestic: it could be the "More memory for less" action. But i like it more that a soon to be released line of G5's coexist with the old line.

The memory deal is a fake anyway. I can get much cheaper modules from 3rd party sellers even with the memory discount.

[jsw]

While I can understand that those, who have been waiting for faster powermacs for months, are disappointed with Apple, I'd like to point out that Apple had to do something. With the new/extend promo they clearly say there won't be any updates until WWDC. They had to do this in order to start selling PMs again....

Good points, and this casts the latest G5 promo on the site in a different light - it's not that they're reving up demand for any G5s, they're trying to drum up demand for what they have right now.

[Zaty]

TO EVEN THE FIRST QUARTER?!?!?!? What are you talking about, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Do you just make up your reasons for believing what you do?

Sorry, but we won't see PB G5 until MWSF 05. An earlier release would only make sense if they could ship them in quantities in time for the 2004 holiday season which seems rather unlikely to me.

[redAPPLE]

is is just sad. if it is true. but actually i care more for the g5 powerbook.

[skunk]

Surely if SJ promised - uncharacteristically - that G5s would be at 3GHz by whenever, if that is no longer the case, then he would have to come clean or face serious complaints from the market? Does the fact that he has not said anything mean anything?

[a17inchFuture]

I really dont think that the 3 Ghz plateau will be reached by September. Maybe there will be an advance in technology between now and then, but at the moment, the 970FX is NOT gonna run at 3, and their specifications seemed kinda far off from 3 (2.6 , or somethign like that). My point is, we have known about the 970FX being around 2.6 for almost three months now, and yet its not in apples PM yet. If and when a 3.0 viable processor is released/finished, us consumers probably wont see it in a comp until four or five months later.

Get out the big coats and boots, it could be a long winter . . . .

And as far as PB updates, if sometime soon they try to stick customers with a g4 speed bump, without a price drop or some other crazy incentive, then I really think someone should walk up to Steve Jobs next time they see him in public and spit in his face.

Just tell him that hows Apple treats you. . . .

[skunk]

And as far as PB updates, if sometime soon they try to stick customers with a g4 speed bump, without a price drop or some other crazy incentive, then I really think someone should walk up to Steve Jobs next time they see him in public and spit in his face.

Just tell him that hows Apple treats you. . . .

That's a bit uncalled for. If they don't make a model you want, don't buy it. Steve Jobs doesn't owe you a faster computer.

[a17inchFuture]

Sorry, but we won't see PB G5 until MWSF 05. An earlier release would only make sense if they could ship them in quantities in time for the 2004 holiday season which seems rather unlikely to me.

Oh, well i read the original statment by the guy as if he were saying the PB's wouldnt come out til '05 to even out sales. Because that makes no sense, no company would engage in a system where they try hold off updating in ordcer to even out sales between product lines.

[job]

It doesn't make any sense what so ever for Apple to introduce Dual 2.5 or what ever PowerMac G5's right now. If they introduce them on March 30th, or even the week after they won't probably be shipping until very late April or early May, then 30 days after it ships Apple comes out with another PowerMac G5 update to 3 GHz? Doesn't make sense to me. Others are talking about ripping people off well I think that is ripping people off right there. Nothing like buying a $2900 PowerMac running at 2.5 GHz and then having that be the low end PowerMac 30 days after it ships for $1000 less. You people aren't being reasonable here. If you want a damn PowerMac G5 then go buy one. If you wait until June, maybe there won't be any PowerMac updates then either! If there are and you buy one your PowerMac will be out of date in about 6 months anyways so why are we all whining about when Apple is going to release the new PowerMacs?[/b]

Exactly.

Besides people, this is Apple we're talking about. A company that used to update it's products twice a year FFS. Anyone remember the years of the bi-annual Macworlds? Apple has released products in 6 month cycles before and I honestly think that mklos has a very valid point. Why release them now only to re-bump the line 30 days later?

:confused:

[davetrow1997]

I can't stand it anymore. Will the individuals who are spelling LOSE with two Os please stop. It's killing me. Oh the humanity.

Loose (verb) to release, to let go, i.e. "let loose"
(adjective) not tight

LOSE is the proper spelling. Like, I'm going to LOSE my mind if people keep spelling it "loose." I will not "loose" my mind.

[Zaty]

... I have this wierd feeling that they will kill the eMac sometime late this year. I think that the G5 iMac will be a new design, and that the old style G4's will become the new entry level systems. The current bottom level iMac is $1,300 now, and in 6 months, even with some small improvements (better video card, more ram, bigger HD) it will be easy to sell for sub-$1000 with a 15" and only a little more for 17". The eMac just LOOKS so outdated. Maybe they will call G4 iMacs eMacs, and call the G5's iMacs?

They definitely have to do something with the eMac. It's such an outdated design. Replacing the eMac with the current 15" and 17" iMacs (I don't think they would rebrand them as eMacs) would be a great move. Selling those iMacs for less than $1000 could gain serious market share in education market.

[fenlyn]

Exactly.

Besides people, this is Apple we're talking about. A company that used to update it's products twice a year FFS. Anyone remember the years of the bi-annual Macworlds? Apple has released products in 6 month cycles before and I honestly think that mklos has a very valid point. Why release them now only to re-bump the line 30 days later?

:confused:

The only way they would update this week and at WWDC is if this week's update was for immediate availability. That would be the only thing that would make sense.

Still wondering if anybody has an answer to my question. What is the "Impress for Less" rebate referenced in the Brilliant Rebate form?

[job]

I really dont think that the 3 Ghz plateau will be reached by September. Maybe there will be an advance in technology between now and then, but at the moment, the 970FX is NOT gonna run at 3, and their specifications seemed kinda far off from 3 (2.6 , or somethign like that). My point is, we have known about the 970FX being around 2.6 for almost three months now, and yet its not in apples PM yet. If and when a 3.0 viable processor is released/finished, us consumers probably wont see it in a comp until four or five months later.[/b]

Remember how we all thought the original 970 would max out at 1.8Ghz?

Only to see the final release at dual 2Ghz?

Apple may yet have some tricks up it's sleeve.

I don't think this is as bad as people are making it seem. The world won't implode if Apple doesn't release new towers and OS X won't stop working if the new G5s arn't released until the WWDC.

I think the old "it'll be done when it's done" phrase comes to mind here.

[a17inchFuture]

That's a bit uncalled for. If they don't make a model you want, don't buy it. Steve Jobs doesn't owe you a faster computer.

Don't worry I won't . . . but its true, Apple's decision to "announce" things and keep their customer in mystery about the company roadmap is really a slap in that face. And over time, and in situations like these, where update dates are a complete mystery, the slap in the face seems to be meaner spirited and unneccessary.

They have the friggin deal virtually signifying that nothing will happen until june, so why not say that? Or if thats not the case, why not say that, as the deals already in place?

Or you could do what dave chapelle feels r. kelly would do, and next time you see steve Jobs, you could "piss on him".

[a17inchFuture]

I've gotta laugh, because apple really thinks they are the **** these days, and yet they are getting such consistent negative responses from their hardcore fan base (what I woudl consider forum posters on rumors sites to be), as well as the recent slap from the BBB telling them to stop saying they are the fastest.

I predict in twenty years, apple wont even make computers anymore, and if they do, they'll be the worst in the market. All they'll sell will be ipod minis and lucky bags full of **** they couldnt' sell over the years like .mac subscriptions and 1.5 ghz PB G4 comps (as no one will buy them when and if they are released before the PB g5).

[job]

Don't worry I won't . . . but its true, Apple's decision to "announce" things and keep their customer in mystery about the company roadmap is really a slap in that face. And over time, and in situations like these, where update dates are a complete mystery, the slap in the face seems to be meaner spirited and unneccessary.

They have the friggin deal virtually signifying that nothing will happen until june, so why not say that? Or if thats not the case, why not say that, as the deals already in place?[/b]

I don't think the common person buying a new Mac for the first time is going to know about the possibility of updates in June.

If anything, these rebates would attract more consumers, helping to continue the sales of the towers/iMacs/etc.

If Apple announced that updates would be coming in June, nobody would buy anything until June. Not selling products for around three months isn't that great.

[iAtom]

They definitely have to do something with the eMac. It's such an outdated design. Replacing the eMac with the current 15" and 17" iMacs (I don't think they would rebrand them as eMacs) would be a great move. Selling those iMacs for less than $1000 could gain serious market share in education market.

I don't think that it would be smart to get rid of the CRT based eMacs. Remember, they are made for schools, and LCDs are not a good idea for schools because they can be easily ruined, and schools just don't want to pay the extra money for them. At my highschool, we have a lot of eMacs and they work great for everything we need them to do (typing papers, internet).

Of course I wouldn't mind an iMac for under $1000. :p

[invaLPsion]

DHM, said it before, I'll say it again, please find a pro peecee forum if you seemingly hate Mac so much. Not sure why you're even here... like, ever! Your icon looks like a troll, is that coincidence?

DHM doesn't hate macs. He is just very dissapointed as many of us are. The situations he and I are in merit a look at the PC market. It doesn't mean he hates macs.

[clr900]

What the hell Apple. I promised myself I wasn't going to buy anything until rev b and I am sticking to that promise, but what the hell. I better be completely blown away at wwdc, I mean at least dual 3ghz with dual 2ghz as entry at 1800$ with a 9800pro. This is completely ridiculous.

[Zaty]

Oh, well i read the original statment by the guy as if he were saying the PB's wouldnt come out til '05 to even out sales. Because that makes no sense, no company would engage in a system where they try hold off updating in ordcer to even out sales between product lines.

No, they wouldn't do that. I'm sure they will announce G5 PBs as soon as possible. But due to the enormous heat dissipation and power drain of the G5, it will take them more time to either get cooler cpus drawing less juice or find other ways to cool them. Therefore WWDC seems to early as does MW Paris in early September. They could announce them in Nov or Dec, shipping in Jan or Feb. but that would hurt holiday sales of the G4s. Besides, I’m sure Steve Jobs wants to announce G5 PBs in front of an audience, so MWSF 05 seems to be date.

[Zaty]

I don't think that it would be smart to get rid of the CRT based eMacs. Remember, they are made for schools, and LCDs are not a good idea for schools because they can be easily ruined, and schools just don't want to pay the extra money for them. At my highschool, we have a lot of eMacs and they work great for everything we need them to do (typing papers, internet).

Of course I wouldn't mind an iMac for under $1000. :p

While I agree with you that CRTs are less likely to sustain damage than LCDs, Apple has to drop the eMac eventually, because they will get to a point when no one produces CRTs anymore, or Apple would have CRTs made just for them, which would highly increase costs. So, if they don't drop eMacs this year, they will most certainly do it next year.

[Waragainstsleep]

I notice this offer is not avainlable from the UK Apple store.
Not only are there no savings, but the UK prices seem to be rather inflated (this applies to everything, not just displays):

The exchange rate on Paypal yesterday was £1 = $1.77.

US Applestore UK Applestore Converted Price
Display

17" $699 £549 £465

20" $1300 £1049 £862

23" $2000 £1600 £1328

The converted prices have been converted from US prices, and had UK VAT added @17.5%.
You'll notice something of a discrepancy. I realise these units must be shipped across the Atlantic, but I'm confident that the Royal Mail or the USPS could easily ship single 23" displays for less than £262/$463 (£84/$149 for a 17", £187/$331). Several palletloads should be even cheaper to ship per unit than single units on their own.

Didn't I just read an article a few days ago about how Apple considered the UK market to be important?

The G5s are even worse, £200 on a 1.6GHz, over £300 for a dual 2.0GHz.

This is not on guys...........

[applekid]

IBM and/or Apple is screwing us!!!

We're falling behind, AGAIN!!

I was hoping at this year's WWDC it would be go like:

Steve says, "On this date, last year, we announced the PowerMac G5... We also promised to release a 3 GHz G5 this year on this date... Today we're announcing that we have surpassed 3 GHz!"

But I don't see it happening anymore.

[swmooretiger]

well, i guess all i have to say is that if we go up 50% in clock speed over the course of one year that ain't so bad. look at intel this past year....they went from 3 GHz to what, 3.4 GHz and those chips aren't even out in large quantities. so what if it takes a year, i'd rather have them take a year and release a huge improvement than make crappy little steps all year.

[Zaty]

IBM and/or Apple is screwing us!!!

We're falling behind, AGAIN!!

I was hoping at this year's WWDC it would be go like:

Steve says, "On this date, last year, we announced the PowerMac G5... We also promised to release a 3 GHz G5 this year on this date... Today we're announcing that we have surpassed 3 GHz!"

But I don't see it happening anymore.

How come? Do you have information we don't? Who says IBM has not yet reached 3 GHz? The non-existent update could be related to marketing and not necessarily IBM's and/or Apple's incapability to deliver.

[Zaty]

well, i guess all i have to say is that if we go up 50% in clock speed over the course of one year that ain't so bad. look at intel this past year....they went from 3 GHz to what, 3.4 GHz and those chips aren't even out in large quantities. so what if it takes a year, i'd rather have them take a year and release a huge improvement than make crappy little steps all year.

Exactly!

[sushi]

interesting not to go off thread but why Falcon, also i have concerns that if i go alienware ill need a good photo App on the Pc side for all my photographs. and 365 is right the 23" was overpriced. why not give $300,$400 and $500 off all the overpriced displays with a new powermac.
There is nothing that says you can't own both, a Mac and a PC.

I use both each and every day. Been using Macs since System 6 and PCs since Dos 1.0. Like both. Hate both. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

But I favor the Mac platform overall. So in my case, I put more $ in my Mac systems and use them for most things. To me, nothing beats the Mac for overall ease of use and style. They are just fun to work on and be creative.

The PC is great for some things as well. Not being a gamer, I just use mine for basic stuff. VPC on the Mac is nice. But these days, you can purchase a very cheap PC system that beats the pants off VPC.

IMHO, VPC is for use when you don't have space or are on the road using a PowerBook.

Anyhow, I see nothing wrong with having both PCs and Macs.

Just my .02

Sushi

[Waragainstsleep]

The FX is proven at 2GHz in the Xserve (a very small box compared to the PM). I would expect to gain at least 10-15%, if not 25%+ on the clock speed just by putting one in a box with so much more air (what about 10 times as much?) and better ventilation.
The FX cannot be far from 3GHz as it is. Factor in a few more months for Apple to properly test liquid-cooling systems, and you're there.....

[Thor74]

The ability of some of us/you Mac/Apple/Steve Jobs fantatics to white-wash over any problem is rediculous.

Jeez folks. (If this is all true) Then this is a major let-down. PERIOD.

I love my macs, and have for years and years (well, minus a brief period i had a Starmax Clone) but come on...

This is simply a joke if there are no updates for a year.

And the yoke is on all our Apple-Die-Hard-Fan faces.

All the big-wigs at Apple INCLUDING Steve Jobs owe us an apology.

We fanatics keep the buzz about Apple alive, we buy the terribly slow updated machines over and over eventhough we are bitching all the way through...

I have 2 top end pc's already, so I am not gonna troll about leaving the mac platform. But I am NOT AT ALL surprised or even upset when others do since they need a machine that has been released within the last 6 months.

Apple is NOT doing things right if they are a computer company that's only claim to fame is an mp3 player and music store right now. The 9 month old buzz about "G5" is loooooong dead in the tech world.

Hello?!!! It's supposed to be a computer company for crying out loud...

Apple get off your butts and focus on computers again. :(

[vouder17]

Well to tell you the truth i don't really mind that we have to wait until June/July for updates because then more than likely it will be 3Ghz, and the 2 Ghz is more than powerful enough for any user at the moment.
I do believe though that it will be a bad idea to update the entire product cos to tell you the truth that would be straight up stupid because then that would take away all the limelight from each product, and then would result in less sales of all products in general.
So my prediction is new updates from powerbooks in the next few weeks to 1.5Ghz and emacs.
There might be iMac G5 updates aswell, cos then they could have a prosumer expo(powermacs) and a consumer expo(imacs).

Well that is what i have to say, you can agree and disagree but only time will tell :confused: :confused:

[iAtom]

I think everyone might be worrying too much. This may only mean no new displays for a while, but have nothing to do with the G5s. The promotion says: "buy any PowerMac G5..." They still could release new G5s soon, they just might want to get rid of some of the displays. As for the memory promotion being extended, I don't think that has anything to do with upgrades.

[CmdrLaForge]

Hello, maybe you havent been paying attention, but November was the last time they updated . . . .

Why is it that people who whine about PM updates always neglect to realize that their line is the most recent to have been updated?

I am sorry guys, but get a grip. When the 15 inch PB was introduced (the same middle ground sort of introduction as the Nov 1.8 release) we still had a ten month wait, and that was just for crappy speed bumps.

What the hell are you talking about ? The dual 1.8 ??? You can't really call that an update ! Its an enhancement. Period. :mad:

[Borg3of5]

Call me crazy, but here goes; SJ said up to 3 gHz in a year. He really didn't specify if it was a fiscal year, an actual year, etc. But, what if we've missed the point? Say WWDC comes in a couple of months, and SJ is doing his keynote address, "As promised, we're introducing the G5 3 gHz...as the low-end." Is this totally off base?

What if the high end goes all the way up to 3.6 gHz? Will this satisfy anyone? I'm guessing if they also add on highly coveted tech, will this also not be enough? Knowing that SJ likes a 'Wow-factor', what would happen if the Rev.B's include the following:

12x DVD-R drive
------or even-------
Dual layer, 8.-whatever gig DVD-R

With these drives already being hinted at on TechTV, it really wouldn't surprise me, if these type drives are introduced in the next revision G5's.

[BornAgainMac]

It would be nice if they only updated the Power Mac G5 once a year. In the meantime, you can still upgrade it yourself with a new video card, more memory, bigger display, another 2nd hard drive, possibly a 8x DVD burner or a double sided DVD burner. I would prefer they upgrade the G5 when they it 3 Ghz anyways. Currently, it is easy to spend 3 grand on memory and hard drive, and video upgrades and it will feel like a new machine again.

I always like to purchase my Mac when it just comes out so I don't have to wait until the product is near it's product lifecycle. I would hate to purchase a new Mac and have it updated within 2 weeks after purchasing it with a newer model.

[QCassidy352]

Hello, maybe you havent been paying attention, but November was the last time they updated . . . .

Why is it that people who whine about PM updates always neglect to realize that their line is the most recent to have been updated?

I am sorry guys, but get a grip. When the 15 inch PB was introduced (the same middle ground sort of introduction as the Nov 1.8 release) we still had a ten month wait, and that was just for crappy speed bumps.

um, that doesn't count as an update. Neither the top nor bottom of the line changed. All they did was change the processor on the tower in the middle. No new ports, designs, options, nothing. And update usually means that it's possible to buy a better machine than before, which was not the case here, as the dual 2.0 Ghz had been and continued to be the best available. It's a revision, certainly not an update.

[majus]

Factor in a few more months for Apple to properly test liquid-cooling systems, and you're there.....

They've already been tested and guess what? They have problems!

The last message I received from "The Steve" via downlink through my aluminum foil pyramid-shaped hat was PM upgrades on March 30 -- minus any liquid-cooling features.

If that date is wrong I'm going to be a v-e-r-y disappointed PM fan. "So what," The Steve says. "It's my ball, so it's my game."

And he's right. He may be going about it all wrong in our joint opinions, but he's still right for his own reasons. And one of those reasons may just be due to the hardware problems they've been having resulting in too much inventory remaining -- more than they originally forecast.

Which would mean I'll just have to wait some more...which I will do, grudgingly.

[jsw]

What the hell are you talking about ? The dual 1.8 ??? You can't really call that an update ! Its an enhancement. Period. :mad:

I don't see how you can say doubling the CPU capacity of the middle G5 is merely an enhancement.

[SuperChuck]

This promotion is limited to two things: G5 PMs and 23" Displays. If they were trying to push the display exclusively, it would apply to any Mac, not just the G5. If they were trying to push the G5 exclusively, it would apply to all displays. This does not say to me that no updates are coming, it says that no PM or Display updates are coming, and that the Powerbooks will see a revision in the near future.

My logic is this: Aside from the Powermac (and XServe, which also qualifies), the Powerbook is the only other line that would likely be sold with a second display (iMacs, iBooks & eMacs don't support 2nd Display, except for mirroring) and yet it is specifically excluded from this offer.

Add to that the previous rumor stating that G5s would be the only line not suffering from a shortage in the supply chain, which suggests that the iMacs, eMacs & iBooks will be gobbled up by education and the Powerbook will be a new line that won't ship for a while.

Powerbooks are the next major update. Powermacs will rev at 3 Ghz at WWDC so Steve can keep his word. Displays will debut alongside.

[jsw]

um, that doesn't count as an update. Neither the top nor bottom of the line changed. All they did was change the processor on the tower in the middle. No new ports, designs, options, nothing. And update usually means that it's possible to buy a better machine than before, which was not the case here, as the dual 2.0 Ghz had been and continued to be the best available. It's a revision, certainly not an update.

The min/max G5 didn't change, no. But the middle is now nearly twice as fast as it was for anything capable of running on >1 CPU - and so would apply if merely running more than one app.

If the iMac suddenly came out as, say a 1.5 GHz G5, then I suppose that's merely a revision, since, of course, the best Mac would've stayed at dual-2 GHz.

Yes, there should be better/faster/cheaper ones by now, of course! But you can't say going from (1) 1.8 GHz G5 to (2) 1.8 GHz G5's isn't an update. If they came out with a quad 2.0, would that qualify? It's the same principle.

[mac-in-fool]

Thank god, I can finally purchase and be happy once the March 30th milestone passes with no upgrades, When nothing happened in January at Macworld, I logged on to all of the Rumor mill sites and created my own personal hell following endless rumors. The next date and the next and the next.

[agreenster]

This probably explains why Apple has the "pro-G5" propaganda on their home page. They need to "remind" everyone how great the G5 is, to keep their sales up until June.

I hope the rumor is true that WWDC will release 3ghz models. At least it will be worth the wait. Probable line-up is 2.6 2.8 3.0, right? That's the bright side at least.

Oh well.

[CmdrLaForge]

I think everyone might be worrying too much. This may only mean no new displays for a while, but have nothing to do with the G5s. The promotion says: "buy any PowerMac G5..." They still could release new G5s soon, they just might want to get rid of some of the displays. As for the memory promotion being extended, I don't think that has anything to do with upgrades.

I hope you are right. Maybe only the displays are delayes. Because without a faster PM I don't see the iMac with a G5.

[3.1416]

It would be nice if they only updated the Power Mac G5 once a year.

No, it wouldn't. That causes an initial spike in demand when they're released, which results in shipping delays, followed by low sales for the rest of the year. Apple must either release incremental updates every 6 months or so, or drop prices periodically.

[applekid]

Apple get off your butts and focus on computers again. :(

My thoughts exactly. Like I said before in a different thread: I want to see more Mac users, not iPod-wielding PC users!

[iChan]

DHM, said it before, I'll say it again, please find a pro peecee forum if you seemingly hate Mac so much. Not sure why you're even here... like, ever! Your icon looks like a troll, is that coincidence?

it is actually quite enjoyable to watch trolls and their lame attempts at belittling our platform of choice. Because we know in our heart that they are the ones on the inferior platform...

[Bilba]

This might work well for me. I bought the 1.25 Powerbook about a month ago to use on my last semester on college. Now I can wait until the semester ends, and sell this baby in a relatively new condition for 2000-2100$ and wait for the new revision to come out. I will be able to sell it for this price and not loose much money because I used the Programmers Academic discount. If a new revision was out, than the value of my pbook will sink rather fast.

I guess some bad news can be good for some people.

[clr900]

If the iMac suddenly came out as, say a 1.5 GHz G5, then I suppose that's merely a revision, since, of course, the best Mac would've stayed at dual-2 GHz.
Obviously this would not be "merely a revision" because the fastest iMac right now is only 1.25 G4, a bump to a better processor and more mghz would be a huge update....you can't compare two different products and say one was not updated because those stats already existed in another. This example did not help prove your point. The dual 1.8 was not an update to the PowerMac G5. It could be called an update to the middle model of the PowerMacs.

[Waragainstsleep]

I would say they could use up stock of 970 chips in the next iMac, but they'd be too hot unless run much slower. Then again, maybe a new form factor will allow for this.

It seems unlikely that the iMac would recieve the FX. The FX is already earmarked for the Xserves, PMs and PBs, shifting iMacs to the FX as well could cause a real supply issue. If everything except the iBook was powered by the FX, could IBMs manufacturing keep up with demand? It has to start making 975s and 976s before too long surely? We wouldn't want those to be delayed....

[phillymjs]

----------
Homer: Kids, would you step outside for a second?
[the kids run out]
[stands up, takes deep breath]
F---
[a church organ plays a chord; birds fly away; everyone stops]
Ned: Dear Lord! That's the loudest profanity I've ever heard.
----------

Never in my life have I had such a wad of cash available for the purchase of a new Mac. I can't believe they are not going to release Rev. B G5s until WWDC! Argh!

Let me tell you this, Mr. Jobs, after all of this waiting for Rev. Bs, there better not be a friggin' month-long wait to get one after the announcement-- the skies had better open up and G5 boxes had better fall out of it, within days, or else*!

*Or else it'll be that much longer you have to wait until this money [fans out $100 bills in front of monitor] goes into your coffers.

~Philly

[mrgreen4242]

This might work well for me. I bought the 1.25 Powerbook about a month ago to use on my last semester on college. Now I can wait until the semester ends, and sell this baby in a relatively new condition for 2000-2100$ and wait for the new revision to come out. I will be able to sell it for this price and not loose much money because I used the Programmers Academic discount. If a new revision was out, than the value of my pbook will sink rather fast.

I guess some bad news can be good for some people.

Well, at the moment, a refurb direct from Apple is $1999, so I would be suprised if you got more than that for it.

[Low]

[QUOTE=

Dell's famous for their difficult process, as if that's surprising. :rolleyes: :p[/QUOTE]

actually not..just send them your purchase slip and form and youre good..really aint that difficult

[Waragainstsleep]

12x and 16x only two months away....
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21291

Plenty of time then.......

[mrgreen4242]

Dell's famous for their difficult process, as if that's surprising. :rolleyes: :p

actually not..just send them your purchase slip and form and youre good..really aint that difficult

Well, its easy to apply for a rebate from Dell. The hard part comes from actually getting it. They contract out their rebate proccessing to some aweful company, and I would guess that at least 15% of the rebates submitted never get paid. There was a huge fiasco with a $50 on Axims about 18 months ago.

I think that they (the rebate clearinghouse) just hopes that people will forget that they ever sent in the rebate (12-16 weeks is a pretty long time to remember, after all) and so when the check never comes, they don't eve notice. That's just pure profit for them, from one point of view.

And then if yo do remember, you end up with a huge run around, since you naturally call Dell, who tells you that they don't actually handle the rebates themselves, so they need to look into, blah blah. After awhile, most people just give up. Now, a $500 rebate is a bit different, but I am just commenting on Dell's rebate system, and how the original poster was pretty on the money.

Rob

[klaus]

No flame intended, but seriously guys, you pay way too much attention to those promotions. Sure the display's won't be updated until wwdc, but it doesn't mean the powermacs or something else won't be? It says ANY powermac, like some have also noted.

I too would be very disappointed if the G5 rev B would come at wwdc, that's the end of june, but comeon, lots of you are already acting like it's a SURE thing that NO updates are coming!

We just don't know that, and let's face it, we are all just doing assumptions based on stock, promotions, rumors, etc.. But the truth is, we just don't know.

Don't go about pissing on apple for not updating powermacs until june, cause nobody has affirmed this. Sure, if it turns out to be the case, i'll be disappointed as well, and all of you for that matter, then your feelings are ligit, but for now, comeon.. give them some slak, cause there still can be upgrades!

Who ever said there will be a rev C (3ghz) anyway? It can very well be that rev B's are coming shortly, and that in juny, the top of the line will be 3ghz, and the lowest model will be dropped. And then nobody will be ****ed with the updating policy, cause their new rev B's will not be completely obsolete, there will just be a better model, only 1. So that could dismiss the short "gap" between the release of 2.6 ghz, and 3.0 ghz.


I'm not jumping to conclusions right now, i've learned to await things and only believe rumors if they come true. My hope is still up

Klaus

[gensor]

As a business person you must look at Apple's entire line-up.
eMac
iMac
eBook
PowerBook
PowerMac

It is widely recognized that the eMac, eBook, and iMac are the most dated products. They are important to Apple. Based upon this common sense, you would then first predict an update of eBook and eMac because you want to hav that product ready for the uncoming educational year. Then the iMac is also important.

From a technology standpoint, the PowerMac should really be introduced with either the new ATI or Nvida card. PowerMac fans would be pissed if they bought a PowerMac revision only to find out 45 days later they could have had a PowerMac with an ATI super duper card. It takes some time to design the new ATI card into the PowerMac. You probably also have ramping issues at IBM that are being worked through. So Apple is saying, we are only 90 days away from the big show, let us get it right and do it once rather than just stick a modest upgrade out there.

Now with respect to PowerBooks, I am not so sure on that one, but it probably will take Apple Under the end of June to make sure they can get the G5 in it.

I know from reliable Taiwan newspapers that Apple was to start switching new notebook production to a prior vendor in March. Common sense tells you this would be in connection with a new model, therefore, I say eBook revisions.

In April I predict new eBooks, new eMacs, and new iMacs.

[roy_dan]

Give Apple a little credit for what they do right.

If you ever told a PC user Mac are superior because Apple is one company integrating hardware and software (vs. Microsoft, Red Hat, Intel, AMD, Tyan, Chaintech, SIS, Emachines, Dell all trying to make the same platform) then just think about that for a second. How big is Apple and look at all the solutions they offer. Its like sending a platoon to take on an army. They do a damn good job and deserve some credit.

The saddest part of spending $3000 on a PC is it still feels like a $500 Wal Mart PC for 80% of the regular activities including some games.
How sad is that?
Macs are truely and "experience" and not just another kind of PC.
Sure, PCs get updates every 3 months but they lose a well-designed platform and gain an unstable system (which is why PCs will always suffer since there is no decisive leadership).
Why do you think there are so many “PC Techies”…if you bought a house as a HUD home you would become a carpenter out of necessity.
Give Apple the time it takes to do it right.
There have been some cracks in the foundation of our bragging rights and I am willing to wait rather than loose face.

[a17inchFuture]

What the hell are you talking about ? The dual 1.8 ??? You can't really call that an update ! Its an enhancement. Period. :mad:

Its an update, period.

[MacRAND]

Apple is NOT doing things right if they are a computer company that's only claim to fame is an mp3 player and music store right now. The 9 month old buzz about "G5" is loooooong dead in the tech world.
Hello?!!! It's supposed to be a computer company for crying out loud...
Apple get off your butts and focus on computers again. :(APPLE DIGITAL HUB, INC. is their new name.
Color screen iPods, then SuperMini iPods when the next even smaller 4GB Hard Drive comes out...
$500 off the 23" CinemaD is to unload a warehouse of plastic-framed large LCD screens, since they are the ones over-stocked instead of the 20".
NO new Aluminum Cinema Displays (make room for Daddy) until the plastic ones are all sold off.
Any delay now is pure marketing ploy designed to clean out the pipeline of old products for fresh new ones, and so Apple & dealers won't take a massive hit on dropping prices AFTER the new releases come out (no further discounts required on already-sold product).
Meanwhile, Apple can stock up on 2.0 - 2.4 GHz Dual G5s, and even ship sealed (SECRET) containers to all the dealers under new Dealer Agreements date April 1, 2004, for a good priming of the pump so availability upon announcement is immediate in US - instant gratification (ig) instead of instant disappointment (id)
The last message I received from "The Steve" via downlink through my aluminum foil pyramid-shaped hat was PM upgrades on March 30 -- minus any liquid-cooling features.
If that date is wrong I'm going to be a v-e-r-y disappointed PM fan. "So what," The Steve says. "It's my ball, so it's my game."Too many of us forget that Steve (the $1 per year executive) and APPLE DIGITAL HUB, INC. really are in the business to sell wares, soft & hard, at a profit, otherwise, Apple's shareholders might look for another "dollar a year" CEO.
Marketing and thoughtful timed-release is all part of the corporate money-game.
Apple has to make sure that dealers aren't caught with a warehouse of products that cannot be sold for profit, since the profit-margin Apple allows dealers (unlike preferential treatment of themselves through Apple Retail Stores) to make is very tight, combined with the "no un-authorized discount pricing" (except for $5 off this or that) policy.

SECRECY and a no announcement policy until-we-are-ready are all part of the marketing game, nothing happens until the deals & sales empty out the pipeline.
Plus, this doesn't hurt long technical development periods for problem solving.
It just hurts our feelings when we over-stress on much anticipated instant digital gratification (idg) of faster, better well-designed stuff.

Stressful public self-flagellation with great expectations over new releases contributes to a common hysteria (aka: cybersteria) and obvious co-dependency on mere THINGS for self gratification. Appropriate Simpsons quote for how I'm feeling right now...
----------
Homer: Kids, would you step outside for a second?
[the kids run out] [Homer stands up, takes deep breath]
F---
[a church organ plays a chord; birds fly away; everyone stops]
Ned: Dear Lord! That's the loudest profanity I've ever heard.
----------
Never in my life have I had such a wad of cash available for the purchase of a new Mac.
I can't believe they are not going to release Rev. B G5s until WWDC! Argh!
Let me tell you this, Mr. Jobs, after all of this waiting for Rev. Bs, there better not be a friggin' month-long wait to get one after the announcement-- the
skies had better open up and
G5 boxes had better fall out of it, within days, or else*!Are we becoming a religious cult fixated on the next incarnation of the "expected one" descending from heavenly cyber space to our local Apple Temple (or is it.. template)? ...for the love of Pete, I am not in any way
steamed over the idea of using these nicely operating existing Macs for another 3 or 4 months.
Seems to be a whole lot of impatience in this group.Although, our palatial cyber-matrix IS a rumor-mongering Mecca, it appears we have become a throng of 3x tens of thousands participating in a cyclical Spring Hadj (also, Hajj).
If so, a little Zen patience may be in order. To actively observe increasingly clear manifestations on the ethernet is one thing, abandonment of anger self-management bordering on the riotous is another.

Is anyone so deprived of speedy digital manipulation
feel that we must resort to
(a) peeing on our saviour, Steve Jobs be his name, or
(b) disemboweling the Apple to the UNIX core, or
(c) transubstantiation of a Mac into a peecee?
(d) all the above
Tell me "no", nay, say "never".

[MacWhispers]

Funny... as an officially recognized Old Fart, waiting merely until June for nearly anything seems like no wait at all. I think, as we get older, time slides by quicker.

If 3GHz G5s pop up anytime late-summer/early-fall, I'll be tickled. I still have a couple of G4 towers to replace, and the Rev. B (C?...) G5 will make a worthy purchase. But... for the love of Pete, I am not in any way steamed over the idea of using these nicely operating existing Macs for another 3 or 4 months.

Seems to be a whole lot of impatience in this group. :)

[jamdr]

They definitely have to do something with the eMac. It's such an outdated design. Replacing the eMac with the current 15" and 17" iMacs (I don't think they would rebrand them as eMacs) would be a great move. Selling those iMacs for less than $1000 could gain serious market share in education market.

No they wouldn't. Education buyers can get eMacs for less than $800. If the 15" iMac wasn't less than that, their market share wouldn't increase, it would decrease. The decisive factor for schools is the bottom line, nothing else.

I predict in twenty years, apple wont even make computers anymore, and if they do, they'll be the worst in the market. All they'll sell will be ipod minis and lucky bags full of **** they couldnt' sell over the years like .mac subscriptions and 1.5 ghz PB G4 comps (as no one will buy them when and if they are released before the PB g5).

This is the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time. Sadly, its humor comes from some intuitive truth... :(

[TRiPod]

ok... thats it. I think I'm gonna buy on the 30th of march. Updates or No. Damn. I should have bought it in December.

lol i thought i was the only one that had been waiting that long...

[Omad0n]

I'm sure someone responded to you in the pages already, but I'm too lazy to check them all. So here it is, maill in rebates are extremely effective tools for companies because statistically not everyone is going to send them in. Kind of like the whole iTunes/Pepsi promotion thing. Some math qizzard could tell you exactly what the affects will be. How many people this will hteoretically generate towards the deal, and then of hat percent how many will cash in. With figures like these they know how long to make the promotion, and for how much it can be.

Could you please explain a little bit more detailed what you mean that not everyone will get $500 off ? I don't understand it.

P.S. Best thing is in February someone here at Macrumors asked if he should better give his newly purchased G5 1.6GHz back. And wait for updated machines. Most people told him to do so (including me :( ) I will never give the advice to wait for any update again.

[mrgreen4242]

As a business person you must look at Apple's entire line-up.
eMac
iMac
eBook
PowerBook
PowerMac

It is widely recognized that the eMac, eBook, and iMac are the most dated products. They are important to Apple. Based upon this common sense, you would then first predict an update of eBook and eMac because you want to hav that product ready for the uncoming educational year. Then the iMac is also important.

From a technology standpoint, the PowerMac should really be introduced with either the new ATI or Nvida card. PowerMac fans would be pissed if they bought a PowerMac revision only to find out 45 days later they could have had a PowerMac with an ATI super duper card. It takes some time to design the new ATI card into the PowerMac. You probably also have ramping issues at IBM that are being worked through. So Apple is saying, we are only 90 days away from the big show, let us get it right and do it once rather than just stick a modest upgrade out there.

Now with respect to PowerBooks, I am not so sure on that one, but it probably will take Apple Under the end of June to make sure they can get the G5 in it.

I know from reliable Taiwan newspapers that Apple was to start switching new notebook production to a prior vendor in March. Common sense tells you this would be in connection with a new model, therefore, I say eBook revisions.

In April I predict new eBooks, new eMacs, and new iMacs.


I assume you are reffering to the iBook when you say eBook (is it called eBook in other countries?). There is no way that the iBook will get upgraded before the PowerBook does. The difference between the two is already prett slim. Alot of potential PB customers are looking at the iBooks as being viable alternatives at this point. (For example, compare specs of a 933Mhz iBook and a 12" PB... they're pretty close, in fact I would say that the iBook is better in several areas, and its significantly less expensive. If you were willing to carry a slighty bigger notebook, it is a really close call).

Also, I think most people will agree that to get a G5 into a Powerbook is going to require using the new 90nm core, which, as far as I can tell, isn't being shipped in quantities that could support Powerbook sales levels. Plus, they aren't goign to release a new G5 core in the PB's before the PMac's.

So, it is entirely logical that the PB's will get another G4 revision before they get a G5. It also follows that since the iBook is already so close in specs that it won't get a new rev until after the powerbook. Finally, because the iMac is a 'consumer' grade product, and the Powerbook is a 'professional' system, I don't think that there will be a more powerful iMac until the PB gets a facelift. As for the eMac, well, I think it'll be gone before this time next year. It may be around in name, but it will just be a G4 iMac or something. It jsut seems insanely outdate to me.

[paulypants]

In April I predict new eBooks, new eMacs, and new iMacs.


what's an 'ebook' ? ;)

[LudwigVan123]

I can't believe they are not going to release Rev. B G5s until WWDC!

Umm... Are you stating this based on speculation or fact?

[Optogirl]

Just noticed today (Sunday) that the UK Apple store refurb page - usually only open on Wednesdays is open today, with a flashing "open today" sign on the UK Apple store main page, mainly selling powerbooks and imacs

[cr2sh]

June 28th 2004

****!

At least now we know the time, date, and place of the dual 3GHz announcement. :)

These displays better be worth the goddamn wait. There better be pinhole aluminum, mounting brakets, 30" touchscreen and a ~$3500 price tag.

[klaus]

Umm... Are you stating this based on speculation or fact?


my point exactly, if apple announces that it won't update the powermac line until june..then i agree, everybody can be sad and whine about the delay :-)

[klaus]

Just noticed today (Sunday) that the UK Apple store refurb page - usually only open on Wednesdays is open today, with a flashing "open today" sign on the UK Apple store main page, mainly selling powerbooks and imacs

it's been open since tuesday.. or even monday but not sure about that.
and not only the uk store, all european refurb stores were open

[cubist]

Most companies that issue mail-in rebates are hoping that the customers won't jump through the necesasry hoops to claim it. ... Dell's famous for their difficult process, as if that's surprising. :rolleyes: :p

That's true in general. I wonder if it somehow makes accounting simpler, since the retail outlet doesn't have to devalue their inventory, etc. You go into Micro Center these days, and there are rebates on almost everything. You want to grab that 160GB drive for $80, but then you notice that that's after TWO mail-in rebates -- from two different companies. Sheesh.

In my limited experience, Apple's been pretty quick at sending out the checks.

[mrgreen4242]

No they wouldn't. Education buyers can get eMacs for less than $800. If the 15" iMac wasn't less than that, their market share wouldn't increase, it would decrease. The decisive factor for schools is the bottom line, nothing else.

Well, the education store lists the base emac at $749, so school probably get them for around $700 a piece (just guessing). The iMac is $1199, so maybe $1100 for a school?

There is a $400 difference there, but that iMac (and its pricing structure) was introduced when, late last year or so? In another 8 months or so the price of these smaller, lower res LCDs is going to be WAY less than it was then, and so will the components inside. I would be that apple could sell them for CLOSE to emac prices.

Also, on a consumer level, if Apple would start selling iMacs as thier entry level systems for sub $1000 they could really improve thier market share. It's sexy as hell, easy to setup and use, and comes with a 15" LCD.

In fact, a 15" iMac with a 1.25 G4, 512MB ram, a 40gig HD, a slightly better video card (something with 64MB vram... an ATI9500 maybe?) a combo drive, Panther, Appleworks, iLife, and an improved warranty (1 year for support and hardware coverage) for $999 would sell HUGE, imho. It would be worth it to Apple to make a little less profit on these sales to get people into the Mac world. Says me.

[hayesk]

I'm desperate for a new Dual G5, I sold my Dual G4 last year thinking that upgrades would be out in March ( 6 months cycle ) and I've been using the family G3 iBook ever since but 3 weeks ago I decided I couldn't cope with the torture of the iBook and bought a brand new HP D530 P4. It cost $700 in a special offer and was a very impressive spec, 2.8 P4, SATA, 800Mhz FSB etc.. Windows XP Pro and a 3 year on site warranty ( I'm sorry but beat that Apple ). The machine was very fast and did everything and more than my old dual G4 but I hated Windows XP so I just sold it and I'm back on the iBook.

Uhm... why didn't you just sell the Dual-G4, buy a Dual-G5 back then and sell that and buy a new Dual-G5 when they were released?

This is why Apple hates rumor sites - people do irrational things based on rumors that people have no idea if they are true or not. Nobody knows what the promotions mean. It could mean that Apple is releasing PowerMac updates next week but not updating displays until WWDC. We have no idea.

And I'm getting sick and tired of people saying Apple is focused on the iPod and music business. Do you actually think Steve went to the PowerMac development team and said "Stop what you're doing, go work on the new iPods?" Please think about that for a second. PowerMac updates will come when they are ready - how the iPod team is doing has no bearing on the PowerMac team.

But really, who cares? Why does it matter? Is it so import to shave a couple of seconds off of a render time? Think of how much work you could be doing instead of waiting. Does a few more fps in Unreal Tournament matter? Does a speedbump really matter so much to people that they're willing to wait months and months without a computer just so they can get one a few percentage points faster? Or are they just getting caught in the hype of these rumor sites only to be let down again and again?

[Waragainstsleep]

Will they bother?

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,3861_3238_23,00.html

Last time the 17" went from 1GHz to 1.33GHz. A 330MHz boost is reasonable, though not amazing.
Are they seriously gonna bother with an update just to get to 1.42GHz?
Big waste of time. So that one will be for the iBook. And the battery life will be great.

[sethypoo]

Could the delays be related to Hypertransport 2.0 which is supposed to ship in the 2nd half of this year? With PCI Express Video Cards shipping Q2 of this year (according to ATI) could Apple be waiting to do the entire upgrade in design all at once? Just a thought. I too am dissapointed. But if this is the case, I can wait.

You make a really good point. Just think.....if we are patient and wait, Apple will put out a awesome system. Dual 3.0 Ghz.....shiver.

[Mord]

old steve must have wanted to leap from 2 to 3GHz with the 970FX.
I'm copertent that we'll see 3 Ghz in the g5 by summer.

(I just want my quadruple g5 powermac and my dual core g5 powerbook)

[sethypoo]

This is why Apple hates rumor sites - people do irrational things based on rumors that people have no idea if they are true or not.

When, if ever, has Apple expressed hatred for rumor sites? :confused:

[Raveny]

in europe the order time for dual 2 ghz powermacs takes now 5-7 days.. it turned from immediatly shipping!

the update for the powerbooks is a myth. I don't think they increase the speed only from 1.33 to 1.42. thats interesting for ibooks. You can make 2 revision for them. One is for 1.25 and then you go up to 1.42.
As for the powerbooks: i think apple wants to keep the line until wwdc. The G4 chips never reached a frequency more than 1.42. Perhaps with the new 7447A they reach 1.53 Ghz. But that's also uninteresting

[klaus]

in europe the order time for dual 2 ghz powermacs takes now 5-7 days.. it turned from immidiatly shipping!

the update for the powerbooks is a myth. I don't think they increase the speed only from 1.33 to 1.42. thats interesting for ibooks. You can make 2 revision for them. One is for 1.25 and then you go up to 1.42.
As for the powerbooks: i think apple wants to keep the line until wwdc. The G4 chips never reached a frequency more than 1.42. Perhaps with the new 7447A they reach 1.53 Ghz. But that's also uninteresting

Did you test it yourself, if so, do just have to "fake" an order, and see the shipping date BEFORE you actually confirm the order?

Cause if I want to check it myself, I don't want to end up having to pay for a G5 :D

[spinko]

...The saddest part of spending $3000 on a PC is it still feels like a $500 Wal Mart PC for 80% of the regular activities including some games.
How sad is that?
Macs are truely and "experience" and not just another kind of PC.
Sure, PCs get updates every 3 months but they lose a well-designed platform and gain an unstable system (which is why PCs will always suffer since there is no decisive leadership).
Why do you think there are so many “PC Techies”…if you bought a house as a HUD home you would become a carpenter out of necessity.
Give Apple the time it takes to do it right.
There have been some cracks in the foundation of our bragging rights and I am willing to wait rather than loose face.

give me a break, please :o

[rwclark]

Let the BitchFest continue. With the RAM offer extended and 23" CD promo til end of June, no new models. Apple must be having some major problems with the new G5s. Looks like a full year without an update.

Yearly hardware update cycles seem to be getting more and more common. The Aluminum PowerBook didn't come out until a year after the last Titanium PowerBook.

[phillymjs]

Umm... Are you stating this based on speculation or fact?

Some of each.

Historically, Apple hasn't announced updated machines during a period when there are rebates offered on that particular model. It's a tactic they usually use to clear out existing stock just prior to an update, which happens just after the rebate period.

Mac aficionados simply do not need to be enticed with rebates and whatnot to buy just-released hardware-- just the opposite is true, they need to be enticed to buy the old stuff when they know a revision is on the horizon and are sitting on their money. Apple always has enough problems with demand for the new stuff as it is, without the additional demand an ongoing rebate would create. They want some of the people waiting for the new stuff to give in and buy the old stuff, to decrease the demand for the new stuff a little bit.

So, based on their past actions (and taking into account that machines announced now would have a very short lifespan if Apple were to keep their promise of 3.0GHz within a year), I feel confident that this new rebate program means no Rev. B G5s until WWDC, which is "coincidentally" a couple days after the rebate ends.

Oh yeah, there's also the fact that Fate loves to screw me at every turn, so if I hadn't been planning on buying a Rev. B G5 since November, they would have been announced at MacWorld back in January. :) Sorry, everyone, this is my fault!

~Philly

[Craiger77]

Taking the optimistic view this may only mean that they want to release updated displays soon, but damn, there is just to many of those pesky 23 inchers in stock. So lets give them a rebate of $500 to clear them out since there won't be a new display at 23 inches anyway. Only applies to G5s because all our other computers (iMac, eMac, Powerbook, iBook) already come with a display.

The extension of the memory promo may just mean that Apple has figured out that people have wised up enough not to buy any extra memory from them at their highly inflated prices so now will sell them extra memory at moderately inflated prices, but to make them feel like they are getting a great deal lets make it a sale instead of just lowering prices.

The " Apple Impress for Less" rebate is missing from Apple's site so it must be something coming out later. For now we can just speculate what Apple product impresses others when they see it.

Being optimistic is much better than taking the pessimistic view that IBM with the G5 has caught the Motorola disease and history is doomed to repeat itself.

[365]

Uhm... why didn't you just sell the Dual-G4, buy a Dual-G5 back then and sell that and buy a new Dual-G5 when they were released?

This is why Apple hates rumor sites - people do irrational things based on rumors that people have no idea if they are true or not. Nobody knows what the promotions mean. It could mean that Apple is releasing PowerMac updates next week but not updating displays until WWDC. We have no idea.


My decision wasn't based on rumor sites, it was based on the fact that with new machines out, my "wind tunnel" Dual 867 was becoming worth less and was likely to reduce even further in the coming months. Then after a mixture of the initial waiting list for the G5 and reports of niggling problems bringing back memories of the trouble I had with the G4 ( new motherboard and power supply ) I decided to wait for rev b which would be here by Feb or March ( to meet SJ's promise of 3GHz within 12 months ).

To repeat what I said earlier, if Apple have supply problems because their such a minority player that no supplier gives a ***** about them, that's their problem. When they then expect me to prop their finances up by over charging for dated machines that is my problem. I'll happily buy a rev A machine tomorrow but not at these inflated prices.

[davetrow1997]

Too many people loosing site of proper grammar and spelling. The yoke is on the face of our educational system.

IMHO there is wayyy too much homonymial speech going on in this forum.

[Savage Henry]

Too many people loosing site of proper grammar and spelling. The yoke is on the face of our educational system.


With Wintel increasing their share in Education market, that duzznt suprize me one bit.


However, I think the case here is a forum full of Chicken Lickens.

;)

[spinko]

Yearly hardware update cycles seem to be getting more and more common. The Aluminum PowerBook didn't come out until a year after the last Titanium PowerBook.

I'd take a titanium G5 anytime ;)

[Mord]

where ever someone mocks someones spelling i will be there It is every forum users god given right to spell as badly as they like. some people do so because there lazy some because they are dyslexic but think of the time it saves the days and day's of work saved. think of the children for gawds sake think of the children

[spinko]

Too many people loosing site of proper grammar and spelling. The yoke is on the face of our educational system.

IMHO there is wayyy too much homonymial speech going on in this forum.

sory, wats homonymal ? :confused:

[Phinius]

The G5 PowerMac was shipping in August of 2003 and the Pentium 4 was at 3.2 Ghz at that time.

By July of 2004 the Pentium 4 will likely be at 3.6 GHz, which would be a 12.5% increase in frequency since August of 2003. Compare that to the 50% jump in frequency of 2 Ghz to 3 GHz, for the PowerMac, in about the same time period.

Intel states the Pentium 4 will reach 4 GHz by the end of 2004, which would be a 25% frequency increase from the P4 3.2 GHz of August, 2003.

Apple will likely be using a Power5 based PowerPC processor by January of 2005. That G5 chip will probably get a doubling of L2 cache over the 970fx, which will increase the speed by about 10-15% and it will also include IBM's version of hyperthreading. All in all, there should be about a 50% increase in speed over the 970FX processor.

So to state that Apple is falling behind Intel would be very short sighted thinking and AMD is in the process of trying to catch up with Intel. So a comparison with AMD's recent speed increases would also not taking in the whole picture.

[MacRAND]

what's an 'ebook' ? ;)Not
exactly like the iBook, the eBook is a new Apple product that uses a flat cellulose screen with opposing pages under 1" thick instead of a thin and fragile LCD. Often used in schools for kids with ADHD. Primarily audio. Excellent for a one at a time slide show picture book style.
Need one? Go here: http://www.ebookdirectory.com/
FREE Manual (http://www.in2m.com/Ecomm/shopping/mfldownload.php?cpn=AFC-EM9516)
This is a picture of one:
http://www.in2m.com/Images/Ecomm/mflcover.jpg
http://www.ebookdirectory.com/gif/book.gif
I been bad.

[Downdivx]

Snip...
But really, who cares? Why does it matter? Is it so import to shave a couple of seconds off of a render time?
Snip..


Are you kidding? Have you ever done any real video or graphics rendering? I'm interested in a PM for video work, and every performance increase helps. Most editors charge their clients 150 per hour. At that rate any performance increase is extremely valuable.

All you people who keep talking about not having an upgrade in a year isn't that bad, you're right. The problem comes when you don't change your prices in that same year, so customers pay the same price now they did last september and the same price the week before the update as the week after the update.

W

[365]

The G5 PowerMac was shipping in August of 2003 and the Pentium 4 was at 3.2 Ghz at that time.

By July of 2004 the Pentium 4 will likely be at 3.6 GHz, which would be a 12.5% increase in frequency since August of 2003. Compare that to the 50% jump in frequency of 2 Ghz to 3 GHz, for the PowerMac, in about the same time period.

Intel states the Pentium 4 will reach 4 GHz by the end of 2004, which would be a 25% frequency increase from the P4 3.2 GHz of August, 2003.

Apple will likely be using a Power5 based PowerPC processor by January of 2005. That G5 chip will probably get a doubling of L2 cache over the 970fx, which will increase the speed by about 10-15% and it will also include IBM's version of hyperthreading. All in all, there should be about a 50% increase in speed over the 970FX processor.

So to state that Apple is falling behind Intel would be very short sighted thinking and AMD is in the process of trying to catch up with Intel. So a comparison with AMD's recent speed increases would also not taking in the whole picture.

Only one problem with this argument, the P4 is an old chip that their trying to wring the last mips out of, the G5 is a brand new chip at the beginning of a long and hopefully successful future. Furthermore, the P4 isn't the G5's competition, the P4 already comfortably won it's battle which was with the G4, the new kids on the block in x86 land are the 64bit chips from AMD and Intel, the Opteron and Itanium. Finally it was Apple themselves that set the agenda when they announced 3Ghz within 12 months.

[Downdivx]

This discount actually means that the 23 inch HD costs the same for EDU buyers as normal buyers. EDU buyers already have a $200 discount and their discount it limited to $300. Normal buyers get a $500 discount, so its the same thing

[afields]

:( :( :( :( :(

[Phinius]

Only one problem with this argument, the P4 is an old chip that their trying to wring the last mips out of, the G5 is a brand new chip at the beginning of a long and hopefully successful future. Furthermore, the P4 isn't the G5's competition, the P4 already comfortably won it's battle which was with the G4, the new kids on the block in x86 land are the 64bit chips from AMD and Intel, the Opteron and Itanium. Finally it was Apple themselves that set the agenda when they announced 3Ghz within 12 months.

The Itanium is not even in the same class of computers as the G5. IBM's Power4 and Power5 are competitors, not the G5.

Opteron has not jumped way out in front for performance in comparison to the Pentium 4. Intel still effectively rules the roost in performance for the desktop. Also, Opteron is not going to have as great a jump in performance improvement from now till January 2005 as the G5 will. Or do you seriously want to state that the Operton will also likely more than double in performance by January 2005, as the G5 will?

[Steven1621]

i thought the stock of displays was running low? how can they do a promotion with nothing to give?

[AidenShaw]

The FX is proven at 2GHz in the Xserve..

Considering that months after the announcement they're starting (that's *starting*) to ship single CPU models only - I wouldn't call that "proven".

There's obviously a major problem with the Xserve G5 - otherwise both single and dual systems would be readily available.

[365]

The Itanium is not even in the same class of computers as the G5. IBM's Power4 and Power5 are competitors, not the G5.

Opteron has not jumped way out in front for performance in comparison to the Pentium 4. Intel still effectively rules the roost in performance for the desktop. Also, Opteron is not going to have as great a jump in performance improvement from now till January 2005 as the G5 will. Or do you seriously want to state that the Operton will also likely more than double in performance by January 2005, as the G5 will?

And as for Apple setting the agenda?

[robbieduncan]

Too many people loosing site of proper grammar and spelling. The yoke is on the face of our educational system.

IMHO there is wayyy too much homonymial speech going on in this forum.

"sight" not "site" would be better.

[Phinius]

And as for Apple setting the agenda?

In June 2003, Steve Jobs announced that IBM had promised him 3 GHz chips in one year. The PowerMac shipped in August 2003. So at the very least one years time from Jobs announcement would be June 2004. Since IBM had available the fastest 970 chip ever made when Apple first had G5 PowerMacs selling, then it's likely that IBM will repeat that when Apple updates the PowerMacs again. The Xserve has just recently begun being shipped by Apple with the new smaller process 970FX, however since the Xserve sells in such small quantitites and its at only 2 GHz, it could be that IBM is supplying Apple with very early production chips. The full production 970FX chips may not be available until June.

[JamesDPS]

I'll put on my rose-tinted glasses and join with the other optimists around here; from my point of view, it seems like the promotion is to try to push the 23-inch display, regardless of what kind (read "which revision) of PowerMac is being purchased. I have every intention of buying a PM as soon as they are updated, but no intention whatsoever of buying an overpriced display, except now that there's $500 off, I might consider it. Well, actually, I'll still use my CRTs, but I'm just trying to make the point.

I'm still holding out hope for Tuesday, but if nothing happens I won't be shocked, just disappointed. Still need to figure out a game plan for the "no updates until June, shipping end of summer" situation; should I look into leasing a G5 in the mean time? Or should I buy a G4 PM (single 1.25 for $999 at UCLA store) to tie me over and just eBay it when new G5s come out? One thing remains true: I do NOT want to pay day 1 prices for a 6-month-old computer!

[365]

In June 2003, Steve Jobs announced that IBM had promised him 3 GHz chips in one year. The PowerMac shipped in August 2003. So at the very least one years time from Jobs announcement would be June 2004. Since IBM had available the fastest 970 chip ever made when Apple first had G5 PowerMacs selling, then it's likely that IBM will repeat that when Apple updates the PowerMacs again. The Xserve has just recently begun being shipped by Apple with the new smaller process 970FX, however since the Xserve sells in such small quantitites and its at only 2 GHz, it could be that IBM is supplying Apple with very early production chips. The full production 970FX chips may not be available until June.

I hope this is the case, my point was that you are pointing to the relatively poor percentage increases in performance of the Pentium 4 since the G5 was announced. However your argument is fundamentally flawed by the fact that at this moment in time Apple ( actually IBM ) with a brand new chip have come up with a 0% increase in processor power.

[SiliconAddict]

Sorry, but we won't see PB G5 until MWSF 05. An earlier release would only make sense if they could ship them in quantities in time for the 2004 holiday season which seems rather unlikely to me.

Frankly if your statement did come true it would be the worst disaster Apple has ever experienced. Already the Pentium M runs rings around the G4 PowerBook. By Summer of '05 why anyone would even bother buying a G4 PowerBook would be beyond me. :confused: Oh ya I forgot. OS X. :rolleyes:

[JamesDPS]

Too many people loosing site of proper grammar and spelling. The yoke is on the face of our educational system.

IMHO there is wayyy too much homonymial speech going on in this forum.

Heh -- this is a great post; it's nice to see others who are as particular about language as I. However, I think you should have added a [sic] after "site" just to indicate that it was an intentionally ironic error, like "loosing". As for "homonymial", that too is ironic? I don't think "homonymial" is a word. Perhaps you were thinking of "homonymic"?

[ghiangelo]

there is another side to this whole revision delay that is not being talked about, it concerns the reseller sales. currently i am waiting to make a substantial upgrade (G5, new LCD, pro level Epson printer etc) and like so many others i am waiting till the next revision to appear before i purchase. i spoke with my dealer and he has no idea as to when new Macs will be introduced. he also went on to say that the delay of new machines is seriously slowing business. it has dropped substantially, and with news that it might be the end of June before anything new is announced is going to prove to be a serious problem. there is also another issue concerning this delay, namely the fact that it reminds me of the days when Motorola was supplying chips for Apple pro towers. this is deja vu ALL over again... i had assumed that the ramp up issues and competetive development of cpus was finally resolved with IBM as the new supplier. it looks not to be the case. lets be honest here, this delay is potentially showing that there is a problem inherent with 970 manufacturing and implementation. this is not a good sign at all... for now or the future.

ghi

[robbieduncan]

Heh -- this is a great post; it's nice to see others who are as particular about language as I. However, I think you should have added a [sic] after "site" just to indicate that it was an intentionally ironic error, like "loosing". As for "homonymial", that too is ironic? I don't think "homonymial" is a word. Perhaps you were thinking of "homonymic"?

Hmm looks like I missed a few. "homonymial" is a Google Whack at the moment (as this thread has not been indexed yet).

[MacEyeDoc]

Initial reaction to the new promo: Great! $500 off a 23in display! Then as you read the other posts here, you get the sinking feeling that this is just a last ditch effort to keep selling PM's, 'cause there aren't going to be any new ones till after WWDC. Ouch!

As a dedicated Mac user I was thrilled last year when Steve announced the new G5's and quickly added that we would be at 3GHz in a year. Like many others I presumed that meant an intermediate speed bump in the middle of the year, and I decided to wait for the "Rev. B" version. Boy, has that been a long road of disappointment. Although Apple never said there would be an intermediate step, many here (including me) took it as a given - so it's not Apple' s fault, but it still has been a pain. If in the fall, Apple had said no Rev. B till June 2004, I would have bought one in Dec. 2003, making me and Apple both happy. Now I'm not happy to still be waiting, and Apple hasn't sold one more G5 - doesn't seem to be good business. Still, although many here are loyal to Apple, His Steveness doesn't consult us on when to bring products to market. So we have to wait . . . and think . . .

I wonder what IBM is announcing next week at their POWER processor press conference? Could that announcement have anything to do with the Apple specials?

[SirCletus]

I'm sorely in need of a new audio workhorse (especially if it can handle the latest games, heh heh), and the current crop of G5s at their current price point just isn't cutting it for me. I'll admit, I'm a tightwad (not that I have much to spend anyway), and I told myself four years ago I wouldn't buy again until I could get 2GHz of post-G4 PowerMac for under $2,000. But I've got a fairly important (international distribution), LARGE editing/mastering gig coming up and my pitiful old G4 can't handle the Waves plugins. Just try a few instances of Linear Phase EQ and Linear Multiband Compression on a 400MHz G4. And I won't even get started on convolution reverb...

My point: I'm sure that Apple doesn't purposely, with malicious intent, deny its customers new hardware on a regular basis. I'm well aware that we're dealing with supplier issues. I still, however, find this fantastically alienating, especially when people somewhat urgently need new hardware and really see little value in the current, IMHO somewhat outdated (oxymoron, I know) offerings. Ultimately, what matters to me (I can imagine I'm not alone) is getting the work done and delivering a product to a client on time and getting paid, and making the most cost-effective investment I can in the tools to get the work done. I would PREFER to do it on Apple hardware running an Apple OS (since that's pretty much all I've CHOSEN to use for literally the past ten years), but I really don't see the value in Apple's current pro hardware offerings. And I need to buy within the next week for a solid tax write-off on this upcoming gig. *sigh* I'm sad, Apple, and I really hope to hear about some updates to the G5 line in the next week or so, even if they don't ship right away.

Now, I completely understand that this announcement != "no new PowerMacs until June," but I'm a little saddened by the prospect of migrating to Opteron out of sheer urgency. Sorry for being such a pooper, all. Had to get it out. Good therapy. Thus ends my rant.

[JamesDPS]

I'm sorely in need of a new audio workhorse (especially if it can handle the latest games, heh heh), and the current crop of G5s at their current price point just isn't cutting it for me. I'll admit, I'm a tightwad (not that I have much to spend anyway), and I told myself four years ago I wouldn't buy again until I could get 2GHz of post-G4 PowerMac for under $2,000. But I've got a fairly important (international distribution), LARGE editing/mastering gig coming up and my pitiful old G4 can't handle the Waves plugins. Just try a few instances of Linear Phase EQ and Linear Multiband Compression on a 400MHz G4. And I won't even get started on convolution reverb...

My point: I'm sure that Apple doesn't purposely, with malicious intent, deny its customers new hardware on a regular basis. I'm well aware that we're dealing with supplier issues. I still, however, find this fantastically alienating, especially when people somewhat urgently need new hardware and really see little value in the current, IMHO somewhat outdated (oxymoron, I know) offerings. Ultimately, what matters to me (I can imagine I'm not alone) is getting the work done and delivering a product to a client on time and getting paid, and making the most cost-effective investment I can in the tools to get the work done. I would PREFER to do it on Apple hardware running an Apple OS (since that's pretty much all I've CHOSEN to use for literally the past ten years), but I really don't see the value in Apple's current pro hardware offerings. And I need to buy within the next week for a solid tax write-off on this upcoming gig. *sigh* I'm sad, Apple, and I really hope to hear about some updates to the G5 line in the next week or so, even if they don't ship right away.

Now, I completely understand that this announcement != "no new PowerMacs until June," but I'm a little saddened by the prospect of migrating to Opteron out of sheer urgency. Sorry for being such a pooper, all. Had to get it out. Good therapy. Thus ends my rant.

I wholeheartedly second that. Although an Opteron isn't an option -- I need a machine for Logic Pro. I wonder what the resell on a dual 1.8 with about 2.5 GB RAM and big drives would be after revisions?

[Mac2004]

Why is everyone waiting for new G5's? Is it only because of the speed issue or do the current Power Mac G5's have problems????? I am very confused. Is it just the processor speed issue? I really want to buy a Power Mac G5 but I am concerned. I am not a big "power user" so would a dual 1.8 GHz be fine for me? All I use a computer for is word processing, e-mail, Internet, photos, some graphics, etc.

Here are my questions:

1. Are there an serious issues with the current G5's or are they fine machines? I am very confused after reading some of these posts.

2. If I were to get a Power Mac G5 should I get it with any upgrades? (ATI 9600 video card, memory, CD drive, bluetooth, etc.)?

3. Who do I purchase it from? (Apple store, Apple.com, Mac Connection, Mac Mall, etc.)

4. Has there been a problem with the G5's power source? If so, has that been corrected?

5. Are there any other monitors out there that are better than the Apple display? I heard that Sony, Planar, and Samsung make some really nice displays that are cheaper.

This whole $500 off deal is really no benefit to me as I never planned on getting the OVERPRICED 23" Cinema monitor. That monitor is way overpriced so this $500 off deal does not appeal to me whatsoever. They hold your money for up to 8 weeks too.

If this is just a speed issue and there are no problems with the current G5's then I am going to stop waiting and buy mine. This is ridiculous! I will wait until April 1st and then that's it. My friend told me I should just save the money and get an imac 17".

[klaus]

My friend told me I should just save the money and get an imac 17".

your friend is probably right.. any g5 would be overkill for your needs i'd say..

[gensor]

About 2 to 3 weeks ago I read from reliable Taiwan news source that Nvida was moving production from IBM to TSMC because IBM was having ramping problems.

[nightcap965]

This note is coming to you live from the vast expanse of a 23" Apple Cinema Display (aka Barbie's Drive-In Theater), attached to a new 2 GHz dual G5 PowerMac. Clearly at least one prospective buyer was motivated by Apple's rebate offer.

Maybe next week, maybe next quarter, there'll be a faster machine available. An even faster machine will follow a few months later. And so on, ad infinitum. The joy of owning the fastest computer is at best an ephemeral pleasure. Moore's Law has not yet been repealed.

[Wonder Boy]

apple should build computers on a build-to-order system. that way, the always know what people want and can hoard the proper supplies accordingly. the make too much of one thing and they dont sell (g5 1.6) and they make too little of another (g5 dual 2). therefore, we are forced to get products we dont really want pushed on us become of excessive inventory.

there should be some sort of sign up sheet that asks customers what they want. have a cut off date, fill the orders, then start another sign up sheet. maybe they could make and extra 5% of the sign up sheet's orders just in case. it may not be plausable but atleast apple would know what products are actually in demand, there by saving us from these insulting inventory blowout ploys.

hey apple- build only what we want, not what you want us to have.

[toontra]

As I've said before in other threads, Steve has brought this heightened expectation upon himself by the infamous "3ghz G5's in 12 months" speech last year. Without that, people would have bought the current line-up readily and would have been content with a moderate bump on the rev.B.

He really should have held back with the "world's fastest personal computer" nonsense also. This was waiting be thrown back in his face in the media as well as the court-room (can't understand why the ads were banned in the UK last autumn but it has taken months longer in the US).

[advocate]

Call me crazy, but here goes; SJ said up to 3 gHz in a year. He really didn't specify if it was a fiscal year, an actual year, etc. But, what if we've missed the point? Say WWDC comes in a couple of months, and SJ is doing his keynote address, "As promised, we're introducing the G5 3 gHz...as the low-end." Is this totally off base?

Oh yeah, that would be the kind of thunder that Steve Jobs would want.



And there's just one more thing.

Last year, we announced that the G5 processor will be running at 3 GHz within 12 months. Many of you have been wondering whether we succeeded.

I'm here to tell you that yes, we've reached the 3 GHz mark. In fact, we reached it three months ago.

Last month, we started building the first PowerMac G5s with dual 3.4 GHz processors.

And today, I'm very pleased to announce the PowerMac G5 with dual 3.6 GHz processors. We've exceeded our wildest expectations.

And all three models are available... today.

[billyboy]

Like Apple rarely care what posters on Mac rumour sites say, think or want. Rumours pander to peoples lust and gives dreamers a soap box. TBH 99.9% of our ideas would sink Apple in a New York minute.

In the real world, most people have no idea what is lined up for the future, and a lot of people sort of understand that their latest greatest model will be old hat in a year or two. So the majority of consumers in th emarket for a computer walk into a store or browse the on line stores, see what they like and buy what is there.

Apple have a very tidy dual G5 Powermac, they are bundling it with a very spectacular display. They have a reputation for being pricey, so they are knocking a fair bit of money off to tempt some new buyers. The latest Apple technology still stands up to the needs of the masses more than well enough and the bundle addresses the "Apple is dear" price obstacle. Set up in stores the combination will produce a wow factor.

If every one in the world already had a powermac G5 then fair enough to rip into Apple for lack of updates, but they dont have a place in the majority of people's homes.

[shadowself]

Apple will uses the 970FX in the new XServes and will very likely use a variant of the 970FX in the next generation G5 desktop machines. However, we all often forget that Apple designs all of its own interface chips for the CPUs (what in days gone by we used to call "glue chips").

The 970 went from 130nm to 90nm. Did Apple's chips do the same? Undoubtedly they will have to in order to get to 3GHz.

However, Apple's chip design team is not as large as IBM's or Intel's. When Dell (or almost any other Wintel maker) ships a speed bumped machine they almost always use chips from Intel or a third party.

The CPU is one of the major heat generating devices in a computer. However, all the othe chips count to. If Apple changed to the lower power 970FX for the new XServes and was not able to (yet) change to a lower power set of glue chips, then this would easily explain the delay in the XServes shipping. (I would expect the design team for the XServes were expecting to be able to use newer, faster, lower power glue chips, and when they could not they had to deal with higher power and higher heat than they had anticipated -- thus delaying the XServes.)

This is also the primary issue with G5s in PowerBooks. It is true that the 90nm 970FX chips are not much more power hungry (and in some cases less power hungry) than the current G4s. However, the glue chips are currently more power hungry. They need to get scaled to lower power versions before PowerBooks with G5s can ship. I don't expect this to happen until MWSF 2005. I sincerely hope I am wrong as I would love to replace my antique 667 MHz TiPB before then. However, this seems like the most likely time frame.

If the glue chips are delayed in their transition to a new design then a delay in the PowerMacs going to 2.4/2.6 or even 3.0 GHz is to be expected. The 970/970FX/975/976 or what ever it will be called in coming months/years can go to 4 or 5 GHz but if the glue chips are stuck at 2 GHz that is the best the machines will do. Period. There is no way around it.

From what has happened with the XServes and what is quite possibly happening with the PowerMacs and PowerBooks this seems like the most likely scenario.

Again, I hope I'm wrong. I would truly LOVE to see 2.0/dual 2.4/dual 2.6 GHz PowerMacs shipping in quantity before the end of April. Then this would be followed by 2.5/dual 2.8/dual 3.2 GHz PowerMacs shipping in quantity no later than 21 September 2004.

However, Steve can always claim he lived up to his remarks if Apple ships 2.2/2.6/dual 3.0 GHz machines in quantity no later than 21 September 2004. That's almost six months from now. They still have a decent chance at making this one.

[Mac2004]

I agree with you... Most people don't even know about these rumor web sites and don't even check them out. I would say 99% of the people out there walk into a computer store, look at the models, buy the one they like, etc. I was shocked how many people out there don't even know about Mac Connection or Mac Mall catalog. When I tell them they can order a computer system through them and pay no sales tax they seemd to be shocked. Some people can be so dumb!

I sometimes think we are making a BIG DEAL out of these new G5 updates. What are we talking about??? Just an updated processor speed and that's it??????????????????? From what I have read the G5 is a great computer and it will last a long time. Unless you are some super power user why wait for the 3.6GHz model. In my opinion thats overkill.

I wish I would have never stumbled on this rumor web site because it has planted a lot of doubts in me that I never had.

[mvc]

PowerMac and displays WILL be updated on the 30th, and this is all just a brilliant and novel marketing campaign to further increase sales of the brand spanking new products!


*suddenly wakes*

[Gott]

Hi there everyone, first post here and man what a topic to start off my postings here!

I at first thought of a stellar plan to get the best of both worlds, a developer discount coupled with the Brilliant Savings. I was planning on signing up as a student developer regardless of the new promo or not, but with such savings I really can’t resist much longer in making a purchase. Here is where the dilemma lies:

I checked the Developer Connection store site and sure enough, the Brilliant Savings promo was front and center. I then went to a configuration of a 2GHz computer and the little red promo sign was under the display dropdown option, we’re talking a 23” HD Cinema Display for $1100 after the mail-in rebate, truly amazing. Being the skeptic that I am for such good deals, I decided to read the fine print of the promo and one line disturbed me, “Products offered through the Apple Employee Purchase Plan, Apple Developer Plan, or QPromo are NOT eligible for this offer.” Might this mean if you are a developer planning on using your once per lifetime (always thought that was funny) hardware discount, that the promo doesn’t affect you? If that is the case, they really need to take the promo off the developer page AND remove the red promo option from the configuration page as well, very deceptive and it will draw people into purchasing thinking they will get the rebate.

Am I correct in this or is the Apple Developer Plan not related to the Developer Connection store site? I’m hoping these two things are different, because then I could afford to purchase Final Cut Pro academic. :)

[Krrill]

Why is everyone waiting for new G5's? Is it only because of the speed issue or do the current Power Mac G5's have problems????? I am very confused. Is it just the processor speed issue? I really want to buy a Power Mac G5 but I am concerned. I am not a big "power user" so would a dual 1.8 GHz be fine for me? All I use a computer for is word processing, e-mail, Internet, photos, some graphics, etc.

Here are my questions:

1. Are there an serious issues with the current G5's or are they fine machines? I am very confused after reading some of these posts.

2. If I were to get a Power Mac G5 should I get it with any upgrades? (ATI 9600 video card, memory, CD drive, bluetooth, etc.)?

3. Who do I purchase it from? (Apple store, Apple.com, Mac Connection, Mac Mall, etc.)

4. Has there been a problem with the G5's power source? If so, has that been corrected?

5. Are there any other monitors out there that are better than the Apple display? I heard that Sony, Planar, and Samsung make some really nice displays that are cheaper.

This whole $500 off deal is really no benefit to me as I never planned on getting the OVERPRICED 23" Cinema monitor. That monitor is way overpriced so this $500 off deal does not appeal to me whatsoever. They hold your money for up to 8 weeks too.

If this is just a speed issue and there are no problems with the current G5's then I am going to stop waiting and buy mine. This is ridiculous! I will wait until April 1st and then that's it. My friend told me I should just save the money and get an imac 17".

For me, and I think a lot of other people, it's based on the ratios... For $2300 after taxes - Canadian, I can get a system that's gonna just blow over apples top of the line computer. But for a 2Ghz G5 PM it costs $4800 after taxes! That's more then double!

For me that's wasted money, and makes me either think, get a pc (Which sucks cause it's pc ;) ), or wait for a revision in the line up so you aren't feeling like your unloading on a computer that is (Cause of pc's), and will be (Cause of the new revisions) outdated.

What apple have to do is look at a middle ground for it's market, and offer incentives. If you buy these products, we'll give you free ram etc. I'm betting I will get flamed, but I bet it would increase the sales of current G5's for the time being. 2 motos to go buy, spend money to make money, and lose money to increase money (Sleeper sales). You might think this is foolish, but if someone buys a G5 now, they'll buy other mac stuff, and come back to the company later.

Well, hoping I don't get flamed =)

[JasonL]

Could you please explain a little bit more detailed what you mean that not everyone will get $500 off ? I don't understand it.

P.S. Best thing is in February someone here at Macrumors asked if he should better give his newly purchased G5 1.6GHz back. And wait for updated machines. Most people told him to do so (including me :( ) I will never give the advice to wait for any update again.

As others answered for me, some people will either mail in the rebates, but with incorrect documentation, lose the receipt (or some other critical part of the documentation), or just never get around to it. That's why businesses do mail-in rebates. The % of people that redeem them is far less than 100%.

[nightcap965]

Yeah, we'll lose money on the per unit sales, but we'll make it up on volume. <grin>




What apple have to do is look at a middle ground for it's market, and offer incentives. If you buy these products, we'll give you free ram etc. I'm betting I will get flamed, but I bet it would increase the sales of current G5's for the time being. 2 motos to go buy, spend money to make money, and lose money to increase money (Sleeper sales). You might think this is foolish, but if someone buys a G5 now, they'll buy other mac stuff, and come back to the company later.

Well, hoping I don't get flamed =)

[TorbX]

Too late. I think he went with Alienware (thread in Buyer's section). Expect to begin hearing how great it is. He will be right. Doesn't mean the G5's suck, though. But this likely implies we will need to harp more on the "OS X rules" stuff, which is, although true, getting a bit tiring.

Yeah... I'd hate just that.

"You paid that amount of money for an OS?"

[MacRAND]

Apple should build computers on a build-to-order system.
<snip>
hey Apple- build only what we want, not what you want us to have.Apple does "build to order".

(a) Apple: G5 Built-to-Order for You (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71002/wo/jZUJ6p282IJD3DH12Q3x0iI02QS/1.0.7.1.0.5.25.1.2.21.3.1.1.0?28,6)

(b) Build the best computer it can for a reasonable price, with a choice Take Your Pick (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71002/wo/jZUJ6p282IJD3DH12Q3x0iI02QS/2.0.7.1.0.3.5?76,21)

(c) Including a wild assortment of accessories Pick Me @ Apple (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71002/wo/jZUJ6p282IJD3DH12Q3x0iI02QS/3.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.2.1.3.0.3.1.1.0)
Rx from Dr.Bott (http://www.drbott.com/)
NO, Pick Me @ Small Dog (http://www.smalldog.com/)
HENRY FORD was the leading manufacturer of American automobiles in the early 1900's. He established the Ford Motor Company, which revolutionized the automobile industry with its assembly line method of production. The savings from this technique helped Ford sell automobiles at a lower price than anyone had before.
In 1903, Ford produced only expensive cars, as its competitors did. However, Ford soon began working to make a simple, sturdy car that large numbers of people would be able to afford. To lower the price, Ford and his executives tried new ways to reduce production costs. For example, the company created an assembly line method in which conveyor belts brought automobile parts to workers. Each worker performed a particular task, such as adding or tightening a part. This system helped reduce the assembly time of a Ford automobile from about 12 1/2 worker-hours in 1912 to about 1 1/2 worker-hours in 1914.For Apple to please Wonder Boy, should the lessons of history be ignored,
especially the Industrial Revolution of the early 1900's?

Hey, Henry, do you hear what this Wonder Boy wants to do?
(Henry - rolling over in grave)
Ok, I hear you Henry.
Wonder Boy, Henry says "build your own, to hell with costs, and don't let IBM mess with you either".
Henry, you can Rest In Peace now, Wonder Boy did admit "it may not be plausable" and I think he's right, Henry, ain't no way it's plausable!

[Mac2004]

As others answered for me, some people will either mail in the rebates, but with incorrect documentation, lose the receipt (or some other critical part of the documentation), or just never get around to it. That's why businesses do mail-in rebates. The % of people that redeem them is far less than 100%.


I agree!!!!! Apple should just lower thir prices. They are way overpriced compared to a fully loaded PC. These rebates are too much of a hassle. Just lower the damn prices and be done with it. Your monitors are way overpriced anyway. I sure like Apple but I am getting really tired of all these little games and delays.

[TorbX]

Maybe Steve knew that a slight bump would be a waste of resources/time/money and decided to hold off until 3 Ghz, when he knew more people would be interested. It's not like the competition is roaring ahead -- the P4 is the biggest joke in history( ;) )

Maybe a little off-topic, but why is that? I hear people saying it, but why do they?

Why is P4 a joke?

[Mac2004]

Well I think I will oder my new Power Mac G5 from either Mac Connection or Mac Mall catalog. This way I WON'T have to pay any sales tax which can up to the hundreds of dollars on an expensive system and I will get the $500.00 rebate. If you think about it that's a lot of savings!!!! I would NEVER buy from a retail store.

[appleface]

it looks as though we'll wait til the end of june to see apple's newest, fastest computer. WWDC would be an excellent place to release a 64-bit OS. maybe we'll see dual 3.0 with OSX.64 in july. that'd be rapid.

[Dstreelm]

ive been reading through the posts here and i was astonished!!

people are complaining about their dualie G4's and G5's being too slow, but im running an almost 2 year old 800mhz G4 powerbook with a combo drive, and i couldnt be happier. dont get me wrong, i love to go into the apple store and drool ofver the G5's and sure, a 3ghz G5 would rock, but do you really need it? i mean i run Ashlar-Vellum's cobalt software with absolutley no problems. i mean i can tell that my system is getting old, but i cant even justify an update to a dual G4 tower much less a G5

[Ari]

I just wonder, who promised 2.4-2.6 GHz to be available in six months?

Was it SJ or mr. Rumor.

Commodore 128
iMac rev A
TiBook 1GHz (12Dec,2002) I'm happy, allthough AluBooks in Jan 2003.
And happy with all of them.
next, PowerMac with Apple display in 2006/2007

With my timetable a new Mac is allways a real bargain!


:D :D

[captain kirk]

apple should build computers on a build-to-order system. that way, the always know what people want and can hoard the proper supplies accordingly. the make too much of one thing and they dont sell (g5 1.6) and they make too little of another (g5 dual 2). therefore, we are forced to get products we dont really want pushed on us become of excessive inventory.
hey apple- build only what we want, not what you want us to have.

You don't appear to know the way apple works. Apple along with Dell are one of thew few manufacturing companies who DO NOT HOLD STOCK. Everything is built to order at the request of either consumers via the online store or at the request of resellers who order larger quanitites. The only exception is apple's own retail stores who obviously hold stock to take away in the same way a normal reseller would. Therefore rebates are not a way of getting rid of excess stock but rather a way of continuing demand for an older product that is close to being updated. Remember the price cut on the powerbooks that occured in mid 2003. This was done in order to maintain demand on titanium powerbooks which were over 6 months old and which Apple knew wouldn't be updated for a further 3-4 months. But to make it clear Apple do not hold stock.

[MrSugar]

So if we aren't seeing new PMs until June, why is it that they are showing up as totally gone, end of life, in many stores? Recall the Comp USA and best buy claims.

If this is true, that we won’t see PMs until June, this is extremely sad. I too have been waiting to get a g5 since December, I never would have thought apple would have waited a full year to update their Pro line. Seriously sad, and sorry to say, I don't see the g5 jumping strait to 3.0ghz. That means they drop the whole line of FX chips, which haven't been proven to go to 3ghz. I don't want to hear the trash about you guys saying, "Well they could always squeak it out". Until we see specs from IBM that say it, we just have no idea.

Well, let's hope that we see new PMs before June, I am sick of waiting and want to make the switch to Mac full circle.

[nightcap965]

Marketing: Let's just find out what the customers want, and give it to them!

Engineering: They want us to give them our products for free.

---

I work for a concern that a few years ago was noted for its low prices. Others in the same industry dropped their costs even further, leaving us with two choices: see which of us could survive on the bottom, or head for higher ground. We raised our prices. We hired new researchers, built new facilities, and equipped them with new technology. The result is that we're now one of the premier organizations in our industry.

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey." - John Ruskin (?)




I agree!!!!! Apple should just lower thir prices. They are way overpriced compared to a fully loaded PC. These rebates are too much of a hassle. Just lower the damn prices and be done with it. Your monitors are way overpriced anyway. I sure like Apple but I am getting really tired of all these little games and delays.

[captain kirk]

Maybe a little off-topic, but why is that? I hear people saying it, but why do they?

Why is P4 a joke?

I'm curious as to this myself. As a desktop consumer processor the P4 is a decent performer. As a laptop chip it is piss poor due to extremly high power consumption and heat dissapation. Please explain!

[fenlyn]

I don't think there is a problem with the Dual XServe G5's (cooling or otherwise) at all. I think they are shipping the first batch to Va Tech just like they did the first batch of Powermac G5's. They've already dismantled their first cluster. Macmall has about 250 of those in stock right now which tells me that VT is probably taking shipment of the new dual xserves right now.

I think speculation about whether Apple has properly designed their chips, or whether they are having a problem with proc supply is way off-target. If they hadn't designed their chips properly or didn't have any good 90nm procs, the single xserves wouldn't be shipping.

I think the first 90nm 2Ghz procs are going into the Dual Xserves and once VT has their 1100 XServes, they will start shipping some revised PM G5's.

An announcement soon could still be in the cards. Wait until Tuesday and see what happens... although I am quite concerned with how many of the current G5's Macmall has in stock right now. The number is extremely high. Maybe this promotion will help... and any subsequent price drops after a revision would be a big deal.

Brad

[realityisterror]

my feeble little mind is telling me that this has nothing to do with g5 updates or anything. note that the promotion is not buy a dual 2Ghz G% and a display. it's buy a g5 and a 23" display... that is important. the whole thing is to sell those 23's. nobody's buying them, and (again in my feeble little mind) new displays aren't coming till WWDC. so know people have an incentive to buy a 23" display. namely that it can be had for only $200 more than the 20" instead of $500....

my 3.14 cents,
reality

[Bendit]

While I agree with you that CRTs are less likely to sustain damage than LCDs, Apple has to drop the eMac eventually, because they will get to a point when no one produces CRTs anymore, or Apple would have CRTs made just for them, which would highly increase costs. So, if they don't drop eMacs this year, they will most certainly do it next year.

Please. CRTs are still selling like crazy. They might not be in 2-3 years but they are still very popular. LCDs haven't dropped in price as much as many predicted. The only reason I am not buying a 20" iMac is that I know that screen is worth likr $1500 if it were bought on it's own and it's just retarded to throw it away when the computer gets old. Monitors can be used for many many years.

I remember when the new iMac was first announced me and some friends were discussing what a huge mistake it was to go all LCD - it was way too expensive and they needed CRTs. And I was right, they did need them.

[Mac2004]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :p

[Opteron]

Please. CRTs are still selling like crazy. They might not be in 2-3 years but they are still very popular. LCDs haven't dropped in price as much as many predicted. The only reason I am not buying a 20" iMac is that I know that screen is worth likr $1500 if it were bought on it's own and it's just retarded to throw it away when the computer gets old. Monitors can be used for many many years.

Agreed. CRT's are king, they last forever, are cheap, and have the best colour reproduction.

note: OLED's wil be better.

on the rumor though, looks like apple is trying to clear old stock.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :pThey are, but its not a gay thing I think, Its a creative thing and seems a lot of gays think different. ;)

[gensor]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :p

I am not gay. Why would it make a difference to you?

[Ari]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :p

Maybe gay people are smarter than the rest of the 95% of the computer users!


:D :(

[captain kirk]

Maybe gay people are smarter than the rest of the 95% of the computer users!


:D :(

We seem to be hopelessly off topic here, $500 off a G5 and 23" display anyone????

[gensor]

That it is their God given right that no Mac product line can be updated before the others.
Listen, the iMac, iBook, and eMac are ancient.

[Dstreelm]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :p

it probably started with the rainbow apple logo...maybe, maybe not

here's another question: are apple users more often to be liberal or conservative?

i say liberal, which makes me happy

[davetrow1997]

"sight" not "site" would be better.

Really? ;o) *sigh* Good sarcasm lost in the breeze... It was a pitiful attempt, I agree. And as for it being people's God given right to spell the way they want: I suppose, but it's hard to take you seriously if you are communicating in an illiterate manner and are butchering the English language. Sure, make an allowance for those who are ESL, but for those of you who should know better.. Shame, shame... So, go ahead and flame me. But at least spell your diatribe correctly. :cool:

[Wonder Boy]

You don't appear to know the way apple works. Apple along with Dell are one of thew few manufacturing companies who DO NOT HOLD STOCK. Everything is built to order at the request of either consumers via the online store or at the request of resellers who order larger quanitites. The only exception is apple's own retail stores who obviously hold stock to take away in the same way a normal reseller would. Therefore rebates are not a way of getting rid of excess stock but rather a way of continuing demand for an older product that is close to being updated. Remember the price cut on the powerbooks that occured in mid 2003. This was done in order to maintain demand on titanium powerbooks which were over 6 months old and which Apple knew wouldn't be updated for a further 3-4 months. But to make it clear Apple do not hold stock.

decent point. i wasnt suggesting apple change their system to build to order, i just typed what i was thinking at the time. i know it doesnt make sense, but damn it i want a 3.0 ghz g5

[windowsblowsass]

i hop they release a 8 ghz model on april 1st then say april fools when you got to pay for it that would be funny :D

[thatwendigo]

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT from your friendly, local myth debunker.

Tired of waitng for updates?
Think that the G5s are overpriced?
Could you build a cheaper box for yourself, using the same kind of technology?

THINK AGAIN!

A fully-specced out, dual processor machine that uses the same sorts of technology that you'll find under the hood of a G5 is more costly than most would imagine. Sure, you can do it cheaper, with commodity parts, but we want honest and accurate reporting, right?

I can hear you, now. "Right!" you cry out, fists raised into the air.

Well, I'm going to give it to you.

Here's what we're looking at, purely in terms of parts:
TYAN AMD-8000 Chipset Server Motherboard for Dual AMD Socket 940 CPU, Model "Thunder K8W (S2885ANRF)" -RETAIL -- $440
AMD Opteron Model 146, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail X2 -- $598
Pioneer 8X DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model DVR-A07, Retail -- $189
ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL -- $232
Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM X2 -- $208
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model 7Y250M0, OEM Drive Only -- $226

What does this system of supposedly outdated components, these once-wonders that are now languishing at a year of age, set you back?

That's a good question!

Here's the answer: $1839.

For a mid-range, outdated Opteron, a motherboard that supports technology that's eerily similar to Apple's boards, a gig of RAM, the same HD that you see in the towers, the same optical drive we have in the towers, and the BTO graphics card, we find a non-adjusted and caseless, powerless equivalent to be nearly two thousand dollars.

If we tack on assembly fees, the famous Apple RAM tax, additional cost for extra features on the cards (ADC, mac drivers), the cost of doing their own R&D for the ASIC, the manufacturing of said device, and the additional supply costs incurred by owning a mac... I'll be unscientific and call the markup 30%.

What does that leave us with? A tower that, without power supply, monitor, or even a case, costs $2406.

Actual cost for a dual 1.8 with the same componets? $3,124. A dual 2.0? $3,574. That amounts to a $700 markup for the midline, and something around the same for the upper one (adjusting for faster processors being more costly - I assume $100 more per chip, which is conservative).

Now, I put it to you, oh MacRumors public...

Would you rather use a technologically elegant, sophisticated system that relies on technology that isn't stagnating and at the end of its life (the Pentium 4)?
Would you rather go with a better solution, rather than the best (AMD)?

I choose what I always have... Think Different!

Brought to you by a lack of sleep, an intense hatred of posts whining about Apple's hardware, and the letter Q.

[wdlove]

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT from your friendly, local myth debunker.

Tired of waitng for updates?
Think that the G5s are overpriced?
Could you build a cheaper box for yourself, using the same kind of technology?

I'm not tired of waiting for the G5 update, willing to be patient. I know that Steve will not disappoint.

The G5 is a quality machine and worth the cost IMHO!

I know that I don't have the skill to build a G5.

[Selecter]

I think Apple is going to go for the whole shebang - G5 iMac, G5 Powerbook, and update G5 towers with displays at one time.

I also think the main reason they are not getting done now is that PCI-Express video cards are just barely not ready for prime time now. I dont think Steve wants to intro new systems with AGP and then have to live with that until September/November. PCI-Express is going to be a huge selling point 2 months from now and every gamer in the world is gonna go to it ASAP to get that edge. That would give Apple about 4 months with "old" AGP style systems if they released em now. I dont see any other real constraints except for this. I think IBM is making the G5's and Everything else is in place, except for PCI Express.

I really do think Steve is going to go for "The Big Bang" and intro everything at once. Only maybe not the PB's, but surely the Displays/G5's/G5 iMacs.

[AidenShaw]

As a laptop chip it is piss poor due to extremly high power consumption and heat dissapation. Please explain!


That's why the P4 core was redesigned into the Pentium M - a high performance chip with very good power characteristics.

The Pentium M (Centrino) is a P4 variant, not a different architecture.

[Wash!!]

I have a 1.8Ghz with a gig ram I bought a week after it came out to replace my aging g4 400 yes you read it 400!!! I could not be happier with it is fast, and I do havy dutty graphics I desing Computer generated holograms I talking gig size files, my G5 flies through then, even my IT manager with his server drools for my G5.. :D

So be happy you have a mac I'll even take a mac LC over any winblows box not matter how fast it they claim to be.

Rant over

[vpalvarez]

I just read that the memory promo has been extended until June 26th. I thnk it might mean that the PMs will hit then almost certainly. I think that I posted that the promo extension could be a goodthing becasue many companies do have really good specials to ensure that the new product sales good. But with the memiry extension it's pretty safe to say it might not be good

[fpnc]

IMO, Apple's Cinema displays are not overpriced. They are priced very competitively and offer a level of performance that is as good as or better than most of the competition. Apple's Cinema displays offer native resolutions higher than many of the "cheap" displays you see advertised for under $1000 (U.S.). It's not uncommon for competitive 20" LCD displays to run at only 1280x1024 resolution, while the Apple 20" Cinema display runs at 1680x1050. I just did a quick survey of LCD prices on the web and at one discount site Apple's 20" Cinema display was CHEAPER than similar resolution LCDs from manufactures such as IBM, Sony, and NEC. Viewsonic and Apple were about the same price, while Philips and LG Electronics were between $100 and $200 cheaper. Also, at this same site Apple's 23" display was between $500 and $1000 LESS than any other display of similar resolution.

I'm not saying that you can't find cheaper LCD displays than Apple's, but Apple's prices are actually pretty good.

[SpamJunkie]

That's why the P4 core was redesigned into the Pentium M - a high performance chip with very good power characteristics.

The Pentium M (Centrino) is a P4 variant, not a different architecture.

Actually the Pentium M is a P3 variant. It's a P3 with SSE2 tacked on. Shows that the P4 has really poor power management. I've heard speculation that there will soon be Centrino desktops because they're so much better than the original P4.

[h'biki]

I'm sorely in need of a new audio workhorse (especially if it can handle the latest games, heh heh), and the current crop of G5s at their current price point just isn't cutting it for me

[snip]

Ultimately, what matters to me (I can imagine I'm not alone) is getting the work done and delivering a product to a client on time and getting paid, and making the most cost-effective investment I can in the tools to get the work done..

If what you say is what "ultimately" matters to you, then I don't understand your beef with the current G5s? You can't do the job with your current machine, but you can if you buy a new G5. Therefore the only cost-effective investment you can make is to buy a new G5. They're perfectly fine machines that kick swift ass. You might have to pay more for it than you want, but it sure beats not having work and losing income.

I realise its a rant and we'd all like to pay less for the current crop of G5s, but all of us want to pay less for everything.

[roy_dan]

Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.... :p


If every gay person owned a Mac Apple's market share would be healthier. But I know a few Mac users and none are gay that I know of. To throw off other stereotypes I would be classified moderate to conservative. One reason I use Mac is for the same reason I serve the country; it represents freedom of choice.

[garybooberry]

I personally didn't switch to Mac for rapid-fire speed bumps in their processors. I wanted a better OS and a better company. Apple gives me that. I can't even work on a PC without getting ill - Windows simply sucks a**.

If I wanted that I would still have my VAIO desktops and laptops that were outdated two weeks after I bought them.

So I bought a single 1.25 G4 last year right after the G5 came out - and it does everything I need it to.

Unless you are a hard-core video, graphics or sound professional, I doubt you need the GHz's you are crying for. The 2.0 is still a wicked fast machine capable of pro-end work on an industry-wide basis.

The only reason I hear these cries (for the most part) is to keep up with AMD and Intel - and I never heard these cries until Apple pronounced the "World' Fastest" claim.

Seems like some bruised egos..

*sigh*

[garybooberry]

"Why do so many gay people use Apple computers? I have noticed that many of my gay and lesbian friends here in CA seem to overwhelmingly use Apple computers. Is Apple a gay friendly company or what? Just a weird question.."

Same reason so many people buy Dolce and Gabbana. We're label queens.

<----Gay.

[MadMan]

Don't forget that IBM has a March 31st event scheduled, giving insight into their new CPU's. While they will probably focus on the upcoming POWER5, they may also provide some details on the 9xx series chip, which they also use in their own blade servers.

Either way, the picture MAY be a bit clearer on the CPU front after the event.

:cool:

MM

(see this thread http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040318102708.shtml )

[fpnc]

No, I can't see Apple going to PCI Express any time soon. I think Power Macs will be using PCI-X and AGP for a few more years (certainly for at least another 12 to 18 months). They had to go this route because when they designed and shipped the G5 Power Macs PCI-X, Hypertransport, and AGP were the best available technologies. They aren't going to completely redesign the G5 motherboard and chip set after only one year. While it is true that PCs will begin to ship with PCI Express within the next several months, I suspect that most PCs will remain equipped with standard PCI (slower than PCI-X) and AGP for the remainder of the year. Also, as far as I've heard all of the next generation, high-end video cards are going to be released in both 8X AGP and PCI Express versions.

Eventually, Apple will have to transition to PCI Express. But, I think they will be late to this party. In any case, the Mac is not really a gaming platform. If your main focus is playing games, get a PC (in fact, that's about the only reason I can think of for owning a PC). It seems a little ironic that the PCs are becoming the "toy" computers -- well, not really, but we Mac users have to put some kind of "spin" on this story.

It's going to be interesting to see how this develops. I can hear the anti-Mac crowd already. By the end of the year they'll probably be ready to admit that the G5 is a decent processor, but they'll be complaining loudly that the Power Macs only have AGP when top-end PCs are using PCI Express for graphics. Serious gamers will probably take note, but for most users it should be a non-issue -- at least, IMO, for the next 12 to 18 months.

I also think the main reason they are not getting done now is that PCI-Express video cards are just barely not ready for prime time now. I dont think Steve wants to intro new systems with AGP and then have to live with that until September/November. PCI-Express is going to be a huge selling point 2 months from now and every gamer in the world is gonna go to it ASAP to get that edge. That would give Apple about 4 months with "old" AGP style systems if they released em now. I dont see any other real constraints except for this. I think IBM is making the G5's and Everything else is in place, except for PCI Express.

[Bendit]

I think Apple is going to go for the whole shebang - G5 iMac, G5 Powerbook, and update G5 towers with displays at one time.

I also think the main reason they are not getting done now is that PCI-Express video cards are just barely not ready for prime time now. I dont think Steve wants to intro new systems with AGP and then have to live with that until September/November. PCI-Express is going to be a huge selling point 2 months from now and every gamer in the world is gonna go to it ASAP to get that edge. That would give Apple about 4 months with "old" AGP style systems if they released em now. I dont see any other real constraints except for this. I think IBM is making the G5's and Everything else is in place, except for PCI Express.

I really do think Steve is going to go for "The Big Bang" and intro everything at once. Only maybe not the PB's, but surely the Displays/G5's/G5 iMacs.

This makes no sense. The PowerMacs already have PCI Express. The inclusion of AGP doesn't make the PCI Express poor. If anything it's better because you can chose which you want.

[Nebrie]

Actually the Pentium M is a P3 variant. It's a P3 with SSE2 tacked on. Shows that the P4 has really poor power management. I've heard speculation that there will soon be Centrino desktops because they're so much better than the original P4.

Centrino is not a processor but rather than an Intel bundling gimmick. It's the Pentium M, Intel Chipset, and Intel Wifi. If a vendor has all 3 of these, they can slap on a Centrino sticker.

[windowsblowsass]

This makes no sense. The PowerMacs already have PCI Express. The inclusion of AGP doesn't make the PCI Express poor. If anything it's better because you can chose which you want.
pci x and pci express arent the same thing pci express is serial unlike traditional pci and pci x

[MadMan]

This makes no sense. The PowerMacs already have PCI Express. The inclusion of AGP doesn't make the PCI Express poor. If anything it's better because you can chose which you want.

Actually, the PMG5's have PCI-X, not PCI Express. Big difference. PCI Express is an upcoming tech.


:cool:
MM

[Bendit]

Actually, the PMG5's have PCI-X, not PCI Express. Big difference. PCI Express is an upcoming tech.


:cool:
MM

oops. my bad. I always thought PCI-X was Apple's abreviation of PCI Express.

[noverflow]

You don't appear to know the way apple works. Apple along with Dell are one of thew few manufacturing companies who DO NOT HOLD STOCK. Everything is built to order at the request of either consumers via the online store or at the request of resellers who order larger quanitites. The only exception is apple's own retail stores who obviously hold stock to take away in the same way a normal reseller would. Therefore rebates are not a way of getting rid of excess stock but rather a way of continuing demand for an older product that is close to being updated. Remember the price cut on the powerbooks that occured in mid 2003. This was done in order to maintain demand on titanium powerbooks which were over 6 months old and which Apple knew wouldn't be updated for a further 3-4 months. But to make it clear Apple do not hold stock.

This is not true what so ever.
I work for Simutek in Tucson Arizona
We get our computers from both ingram-micro and apple.
Both places, we can see what their apple stock is at that moment.
At this time, apple has MANY g5s in stock.
The reason for this is that apple does not manufacture their products anymore. They tell a manufacturing place how many of a certain product they want. If they don't sell that many, that many are still made.

Rebates and such ARE for clearing excess stock.
Apple even states that their goal is to have 3 days worth of stock on computers.
If each one was BTO, then why would custom ones take so much longer to ship?

My favorite part about this, is that you yelled at someone because you thought you knew what was going on.

[soosy]

If you look at the Terms and Conditions on the PDF, it mentions the model number of the 23" Cinema but simply states All Power Mac G5s. Count me in with those that think PowerMac updates could still arrive soon. I think this is just to move the Cinemas and perhaps as a side benefit focus some attention on the PowerMac G5 line which I don't think have been selling up to Apple's expectations. New Displays could even arrive soon, with new model numbers, and the old model would still have the rebate to clear it out of the channel.

A full year without Power Mac updates would be quite strange. Who knows though?

[iAtom]

If you look at the Terms and Conditions on the PDF, it mentions the model number of the 23" Cinema but simply states All Power Mac G5s. Count me in with those that think PowerMac updates could still arrive soon. I think this is just to move the Cinemas and perhaps as a side benefit focus some attention on the PowerMac G5 line which I don't think have been selling up to Apple's expectations. New Displays could even arrive soon, with new model numbers, and the old model would still have the rebate to clear it out of the channel.

A full year without Power Mac updates would be quite strange. Who knows though?

I really hope your right. If I had known it would take this long for updates I would have bought a new PowerMac back in January when I started waiting. But I can't stop waiting now.

[AidenShaw]

Actually the Pentium M is a P3 variant. It's a P3 with SSE2 tacked on.

Yes, and ISA-wise, what is a P4 but a P III with SSE2?

Your attempt at a rebuttal proves my point!

[AidenShaw]

Centrino is not a processor but rather than an Intel bundling gimmick. It's the Pentium M, Intel Chipset, and Intel Wifi. If a vendor has all 3 of these, they can slap on a Centrino sticker.

I agree with you 100% - I put the "Centrino" in parentheses because many people don't understand that "Pentium M" is the CPU component of "Centrino".

[csubear]

Yes, and ISA-wise, what is a P4 but a P III with SSE2?

Your attempt at a rebuttal proves my point!

I'm joining the game late here, so if i repeating just yell at me. The best proof that the P-m is a P-3 varient is it much short pipeline. IIRC current P4s are at about 30 stage piplines, P-M and P-3 are at at about 15. So with everything else constant P-M 1.5 Ghz or even P-3 1.5 Ghz(dosn't exist, and has a much weaker FSB) is just as fast as the 3.0 Ghz P4 monster. If I were to ever buy a PC(which would be never) I would buy a Dual 1.4 GHZ P-3-t. Yes it has a weak FSB, but it is way better bang for your buck(at least as far as PCs are concerned, rather have a G5 any day)

[AidenShaw]

If I were to ever buy a PC(which would be never) I would buy a Dual 1.4 GHZ P-3-t. Yes it has a weak FSB, but it is way better bang for your buck(at least as far as PCs are concerned, rather have a G5 any day)

I have a bunch of dual 3.2 GHz dual Xeon servers, and a couple of dual Xeon 3.06 workstations.

No way would I pick a P III system today....

-------------

When the first P4 systems came out at 1.4 GHz - no argument but that the 1.266 PIII systems could best the P4 systems at some app benchmarks.

[bar italia]

Really? ;o) *sigh* Good sarcasm lost in the breeze... It was a pitiful attempt, I agree. And as for it being people's God given right to spell the way they want: I suppose, but it's hard to take you seriously if you are communicating in an illiterate manner and are butchering the English language. Sure, make an allowance for those who are ESL, but for those of you who should know better.. Shame, shame... So, go ahead and flame me. But at least spell your diatribe correctly. :cool:

You've corrected people's spelling twice on one thread.

What a tool. :rolleyes:

[ethernet76]

OK. Here's for all the people who believe this is bad for Apple.

I'd honestly rather wait for the update then have some rushed, not tested betas get final product status. Apple did remarkably well with the switch to 64-bit computing. Period. Intel has switched to a different style of decscribing their processors instead of raw clock cycle. This was long predicted by analyst because it's hard to explain that 2.0 ghz is really faster than 3.0 ghz when they've been pushing it for so long.

Seeing that Intel's last batch of processors were a medicore motorola-style hackjob, I'm not concerned about a year update. Intel was stuck at 3.2 or whatever for what 9 months? A year? And they stopped shipping the 3.2 for a while because of problems.

People just need to accept that the processor field is stagnant right now. Coupled with the fact Microsoft is probably heavily demanding the 970FX right about now for the xBox2 processor supply might be running thin with IBM, Microsoft and Apple all demanding chips. Sadly, Apple is probably lowests in that pecking order. They may sell 1.3 million units or whatever, but Microsoft will be looking at an order somewhere around 5 million, and well IBM is always going to come first. Can't forget about the home team.

Everone keeps griping about hardware delays. What about the ****e software Mac has? Anyone can tell you that performance is no longer the problem with Mac like it was for the past G4 years. More and more people are no longer gaming on the PC. I prefer my xBox over my Powerbook or G5 anyday. I play Halo on the xBox, not the mac.

For the love of god, please, advertise something other than the iPod. The first batch of kids raised on family computers are making their way from college. Convince then now they need a Mac, you'll have a customer for lifetime. Apple is doing a piss-poor job of converting people. If Apple was running for office he'd be the guy at the bottom they you haven't heard of before and you have no idea what his party is.