whats a good digital camera in the $400 range?

[slipper]

whats a good digital camera in the $400 range? $400 gotta be including a decent size memory card. i wish we could afford a Sony V1 but thats a little out of our price range. is there something comparable to the Sony V1 from a lower priced manufacturer?

[mikepctp]

Tough question as it depends what you plan to shoot with it and/or what the primary purpose of your photography is. A good camera will not make you a photographer.

We bought a 4 megapixel Toshiba P4300 just after christmas. We got an extra 256mb memory card (it comes witha 16mb card), a quick-charge battery charger and batteries (it uses AA's) and all for about $400 Canadian at Future Shop. The camera has Macro and digital/optical zoom. It comes with a USB cable to dump your photos to the computer as well as software to view and edit them on a PC. I have not tried it on my Mac as my Mac and PC are networked and I prefer Photoshop for editing.

Most of the results have been very good but this is not a "pro" camera. I think it's right in there with any "snapshot" type and the resolution is excellent but on a tripod in a studio is not for this one. It has many settings for photo control from full auto to speed, aperture or full manual setup. This is not one of those "tiny" cameras. We got one that you could actually hold on to, it feels like a camera and not a credit card and we won't lose it under a towel somewhere.

For the money, we are very happy with the camera and the results and can't justify spending big bucks on a camera thet will probably be half price in 3 months as the technology improves quickly.

Good luck with your search

MP

[joeyjojoe]

i have a canon powershot s230 and its great (i think the updated one is called the s400). i hear the sony spycams and casio slims are really fun too. for more info, go to DPReview (http://www.dpreview.com)

[slipper]

its for basic photographs, nothing fancy. however i would like to try some amateur photography and experiment with different features. so something expandable would be good.

[FuzzyBallz]

Canon S400 + 256MB CF memory will run you less bit less than $400. Takes excellent pics and compact too.

Amazon had a deal last month on the S400 for $328, but sold out now.

[ftaok]

its for basic photographs, nothing fancy. however i would like to try some amateur photography and experiment with different features. so something expandable would be good.It sounds like the Canon S50 would be right for you. It has more features than Canon's Digital Elph (i.e. S230, SD100, S400) and Sony's DSC-Px lines. It's 5MP with a 3x zoom. It's a little bigger than the compacts, but it does have more manual features that you can use as you "grow" as a photographer.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008OE5I/qid=1080516062/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-8029551-8500637?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) has it for $390 right now with SuperSaver shipping. Take a look.

Note - The S50 is a little bit on the old side, so a replacement may be coming out shortly. That's probably why the price is so low now. I can guarentee you that the replacement for the S50 won't be priced under $400

[iJon]

i just got the s500 and i love it. i took my 230 down to cozumel and it started acting funny. i think its i probably fell in the sand drunk with it and ruined it, who knows. but i had the best buy service plan and i went and told them that is was being weird and they just gave me a new camera, and i asked them if i can spend the extra money and get the s500 and they let me, i love how best buy works. :)

iJon

[cosman2001]

it cost me $399 plus $100 for high speed (40X) 256 flash memory.

This thing takes awesome pictures, especially at night. But the best thing about this camera is that the LCD screen swings out and can rotate 180 degrees. Perfect for taking those closeups of you and your friends and seeing what you look like before you take it. This is a 4 MP camera, and the quality of the images are awesome even on photo paper. For the price this is the best camera, because no other camera had the neat LCD function. So far I have had no problems at all.




12" powerbook, 17" 1st gen iMAC, green minipod

[Freakk123]

The Canon s400 is awesome! I'd highly recommend it! Canon makes great cameras, check 'em out!

[blackfox]

it cost me $399 plus $100 for high speed (40X) 256 flash memory.

This thing takes awesome pictures, especially at night. But the best thing about this camera is that the LCD screen swings out and can rotate 180 degrees. Perfect for taking those closeups of you and your friends and seeing what you look like before you take it. This is a 4 MP camera, and the quality of the images are awesome even on photo paper. For the price this is the best camera, because no other camera had the neat LCD function. So far I have had no problems at all.
12" powerbook, 17" 1st gen iMAC, green minipod
I wholeheartedly second this, I bought a A70 (3.2 MP) as I didn't have the extra cash, but the feature-set is near identical...mine has been brilliant and the increased resolution of the A80 make it even better...but go to a camera store and play around, there are alot of good cameras out there with varying form-factor/features to choose from. Good hunting...

[dudeami]

They may cost more, but I love the Sony that we have. We also have a camcorder from them. If you are going to expand into using both, we love the fact that the battery packs are intechangeable as well as the memory sticks. We have had no problems with the generic memory sticks for Sony. Here is a link to one of their 5 megapixel, I think you could get a pretty good memory stick and stay under $400. It is listed at $329.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=4ZmW5LlMj6-Wq_kkpric7_ZDm6LU2aAE5Hg=?CategoryName=pr_p_campricedropDI_dcc&Dept=dcc&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductSKU=DSCP92KITIS

[Horrortaxi]

I just got a Sony DSC-P8 and I love it. It lists for $299 but regularly goes on sale for $279. If you're good at sniffing out deals you can probably do even better. Features are good and image quality is fantastic. Size is a big plus as well. Use the rest of your budget to buy a bigger memory stick. Pretty much whatever you buy you'll need more memory--storing 10 images on the camera is no fun.

dudeami touched on something--he has other Sony products, and so do I. That means we already have memory sticks so it makes it easier to go with another Sony product--also harder to get away from Sony.

[jtown]

If it's gotta be $400 or less, look at the Canon S400/S410 or the Casio EX-Z4. They're both around $350 new (tho the S400 is available as a refurb from electricsam for under $300). 4 megapixels, 3x zoom, compact size, decent batteries, etc. The Casio has a surprisingly large LCD for such a small camera. Make sure they'll work with your OS, tho. I don't see any OSX drivers on Casio's site but that could be because they're not needed. None of the digital cameras I've hooked up to my ibook running Jaguar have needed additional drivers.

I almost went with an S500 when I was shopping for a camera recently but I went to best buy and tried the S400, S500, and Sony DSC-T1. The S series just couldn't compete with the sony's speed. Not to mention the internal zoom lens and awesome LCD. :) If I were on a tighter budget, I probably would have gone with the EX-Z4.

[poopyhead]

it cost me $399 plus $100 for high speed (40X) 256 flash memory.

This thing takes awesome pictures, especially at night. But the best thing about this camera is that the LCD screen swings out and can rotate 180 degrees. Perfect for taking those closeups of you and your friends and seeing what you look like before you take it. This is a 4 MP camera, and the quality of the images are awesome even on photo paper. For the price this is the best camera, because no other camera had the neat LCD function. So far I have had no problems at all.




12" powerbook, 17" 1st gen iMAC, green minipod

I whole heartedly third this
I have an a80 and it's wonderful
I can use it as a point and shoot
shoot panoramic pictures
or do everything manually
set shutter speeds, manually focus, buy slr lenses (some are specially made for the camera but also for, I think, 25 dollars you can buy an adapter that accepts canon lenses)
the ease of use is amazing and so are the possibilities
the on screen menus are also relatively easy to follow although they are not intuitive

[ThomasJefferson]

I whole heartedly third this
I have an a80 and it's wonderful

Well, this makes for 4 positive votes. I bought one to take with me to Yellowstone this summer, as a second camera to my Canon Rebel Ti 35mm.

I have found the outside pics to be excellent and would buy it again in a second.

[aswitcher]

whats a good digital camera in the $400 range? $400 gotta be including a decent size memory card. i wish we could afford a Sony V1 but thats a little out of our price range. is there something comparable to the Sony V1 from a lower priced manufacturer?

Check out DPReview and Steves Digicams for reviews and example pics etc.

Canon are a safe bet. Good rep and options.

Make sure your camera works with iPhoto etc by checking the Apple website.

Check what software comes with it for Mac

Sony memory can be pricey...parts as well

Ignore digital zooms

Look at video options with sound, preferably 30fps. It chews memory but is a nice option for birthdays, making short clips like pans of scenary etc

You're better with good rechargable AA batteries than a built in battery - you can easily get AAs switched when away from home to keep shooting

Look hard at battery life in reviews

Any chance of optical stablisation is worth considering for higher end models with big optical zooms if there are any bargains around

[jtown]

Check out DPReview and Steves Digicams for reviews and example pics etc.

Sony memory can be pricey...parts as well
Tell me about it. Not only pricey but hard to find. Took me forever to find a 512 meg Duo Pro memory stick and even then I had to settle for a 2-week backorder (which was better than the 5-6 weeks elsewhere). And, looking back, it's depressing how happy I was to find it for $185. at Dell. You can get 512 meg CF cards (used by the S400) for a hundred bucks.
Ignore digital zooms
Good advice. May as well not have it at all. Most pointless thing I've ever seen on a camera. :P
Look at video options with sound, preferably 30fps. It chews memory but is a nice option for birthdays, making short clips like pans of scenary etc
That's a tough spec to get on a $400 camera. Canon doesn't seem to list the framerate of the A80 or S400. They just list the sizes (320x240 and 160x120). The 640x480 at 30fps is one of the things that drew me to my Sony. Of course, it'll only fit about 6 minutes of that on a 512 meg card. ;) After playing with it for a while, I wish Sony had given me more options for video quality. It's got 160x120, highly compressed, 640x480 at 15fps, and 640x480 at 30fps. It's like "crappy", "wow", and "OMG". It'd be nice to have "OK", "decent", and "not bad" between crappy and wow.
You're better with good rechargable AA batteries than a built in battery - you can easily get AAs switched when away from home to keep shooting

Look hard at battery life in reviews
This one's a bit of a tough call. Some cameras have incredible proprietary battery packs that can go all day without recharging. I borrowed my grandpa's G1 for my last vacation and I never saw a low battery indicator. And I filled and dumped his 128 meg card several times each day and used the LCD viewfinder almost exclusively.

OTOH, if the battery pack doesn't last all day, you're SOL. You'll have to buy an expensive spare proprietary battery then deal with keeping them both charged which either means a charge/swap/charge routine each night with the camera or buying an expensive proprietary charger to charge the second battery.

An argument in favor of AA powered cameras is the rechargeable lithium CRV3 packs that I've started to see. These can be used in many of the 2xAA and 4xAA cameras. You can get a rechargeable CRV3 (http://www.buy.com/retail/product_jump.asp?sku=90130461&SearchEngine=PriceGrabber&SearchTerm=90130461&Type=PE&Category=Elec&dcaid=15890) with charger at buy.com for about $30. If I hadn't just retired my old Kodak, I'd buy a set.

[slipper]

look at the Canon S400/S410
ive been checking online but i cant seem to find the dirrerence between the 400 and 410. can someone enlighten me?

[Toe]

In my opinion, the new best of breed is the Canon PowerShot S1 IS.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_s1is.asp

It's supposed to be released in a week or two, i think.

It's list price is $500, so that should get around your $400 range. Some of the benefits of this camera:

10x zoom! Very few inexpensive, small cameras have better than 3x or 4x.
Image-stabilizer. Extremely handy with a high zoom.
Canon lens. If it ain't Canon or Nikon, it might not be a very good lens... not in the consumer market, anyway.
Pretty small. For me, this is one of the biggest factors. If it's too big, I'm unlikely to take it anywhere. Pictures don't turn out so good when the camera isn't available....

On the downside, this is only a 3.2 megapixel camera, but that is good enough for a full-quality 8x10 print. And anyway, with a 10x zoom, you don't have to worry about cropping so much.

My 1/50 of one dollar.

[jtown]

It's list price is $500, so that should get around your $400 range.

Actually, the current price range for the S1 is $495.00 to $499.99. :) Probably won't see much of a price drop before summer.

As for the S400/S410, this is lifted from the review on Steve's Digicams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/s410.html).
The PowerShot S410 Digital ELPH is the successor to the popular PowerShot S400, this new model offers all of the advantages of its distinguished predecessor, upgrades a number of existing features and adds the new Print/Share button. Print/Share speeds and simplifies printing to compatible Canon Direct Photo and PictBridge enabled printers and one-touch image transfer to Windows (XP, Me, 2000, and 98) computers for use with image processing programs, uploading to the Internet, or placement in email.

Basically looks like software updates.

[Toe]

Actually, the current price range for the S1 is $495.00 to $499.99. :) Probably won't see much of a price drop before summer.
Depends on your search engine... I'm seeing $435 on froogle (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?price1=300&price2=500&btnP=Go&q=Canon+PowerShot+S1+IS&scoring=p&price=between).

Then again, some of these places may be less than trustworthy; I dunno....

I'm waiting for it to show up on DealCam (http://dealcam.com/).

[gwuMACaddict]

nikon coolpix4500
or the new little square one that swivels

both rock :D

[javabear90]

a80 all the way... it's an awesome camera.

[thinkofthestars]

I'm not sure how much mine cost, because it was a gift, but I was told it was around $400. It's a Kodak LS443. I looove it to pieces. It's a 4 mega pixels camera with optical zoom. Awesome LCD display, easy to use, and the software that comes with it is wonderful. I've had it for almost a year and it's still in great condition. I just recently set it up to connect to my iBook and it installed flawlessly. I bought a 256 MB card for it that holds massive amounts of pictures for about $80 at Best Buy.

Also, it comes with a dock that recharges the Li-Ion battery. I would NEVER buy a camera that used regular batteries, it seems like an awful waste.

[FuzzyBallz]

I would NEVER buy a camera that used regular batteries, it seems like an awful waste.

You do realize there are things called NiMh rechargeable batteries w/ high mAh rating made specifically for digital camera usage. But than again, proprietary digicam battery, especially for the Canon digital Elph series, is a lot smaller, but more expensive.

[aswitcher]

You do realize there are things called NiMh rechargeable batteries w/ high mAh rating made specifically for digital camera usage. But than again, proprietary digicam battery, especially for the Canon digital Elph series, is a lot smaller, but more expensive.

Yep thats very true. You go for 2100+ batteries, a charger etc. Trick is to make sure you charge just before using them but they offer great battery life for shooting, something like 50-100% more in some cases. Plus you can more cheaply afford to have spares handy and if worst comes to worst pull out some disposable batteries (or buy them anywhere in the world) to cover you until you get back to base...

[Toe]

Plus you can more cheaply afford to have spares handy and if worst comes to worst pull out some disposable batteries (or buy them anywhere in the world) to cover you until you get back to base...
Just read the directions first.

I have seen camera manuals (yeah, sometimes I look at the manual, weird, eh?) for cameras that take nimh batteries that explicitly say not to use disposable batteries or risk causing damage to the camera....

[jtown]

Just read the directions first.

I have seen camera manuals (yeah, sometimes I look at the manual, weird, eh?) for cameras that take nimh batteries that explicitly say not to use disposable batteries or risk causing damage to the camera....
And I've seen cell phone manuals that tell you not to use cell phones near a gas station because it could cause an explosion. Just because it's printed in the manual doesn't mean it's accurate (or even plausible). ;)

[FuzzyBallz]

Just read the directions first.

I have seen camera manuals (yeah, sometimes I look at the manual, weird, eh?) for cameras that take nimh batteries that explicitly say not to use disposable batteries or risk causing damage to the camera....

LOL, if that's an April fool's joke, it's not very funny. In fact it's very naive... no wait, I'm sorry, forgot that's the way J6Ps behave.

[MacRAND]

whats a good digital camera in the $400 range? $400 gotta be including a decent size memory card. The best middle price range camera I know is the Kodak DX6490 with a 10x zoom and large LCD making it easy to view
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/7d/0900688a8018697d/dx6490.gif http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/74/0900688a801c6e74/dx6490_270x189_Innovation.jpg
The quality in this camera is way beyond competitors in the same price range.

I have used 2002 Kodak DC4800 (3.2 mp) for several years and as a result, have essentially stopped using my expensive and sophisticated Pentax 35mm film camera even though it is SLR (single lens reflex - what you see is what goes on the film - no LCD), has interchangeable auto-focus lenses, because I don't like spending money on film, development of the negatives, and printing rolls of photos.

I have been wanting to upgrade to the new Kodak DX6490 because it's the best under $500 digital camera around, and it includes a free Camera Dock for the camera for recharge and download simplicity.

However, I opted for the far more expensive Pentax 6.2 mp $1250 SLR digital body because it uses all my 35mm zoom lenses, which I already own and are otherwise going to waste.

Prices range for new Kodak DX6490 varies from
$378 low,
$469 at most COSTCO, to
$499 list.
BizRate price comparison (http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--402,keyword--kodak%20dx6490,prod_id--11179733.html)

http://www.kodak.com/global/images/en/service/manuals/GLB_en_urg_00167_images/autourg00167001ID1277959.jpg
256mb card is an excellent size choice, you won't need much more storage, and 128mb would be ok. Speed is almost irrelevant because only pro cameras take advantage of 40x HOWEVER, if the price difference between un-rated memory card and High Speed is small, get the higher rate. The old DC4800 used CompactFlash, but the new Kodak 6490 uses the more compact SmartMedia (SM) / MM card.

Camera Dock 6000 - included with camera
Transfer button instantly uploads pictures to you Mac via USB connection
Charges high-capacity lithium-ion battery in three hours or less
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/57/0900688a80134f57/dx6490Fea_3R.jpghttp://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/59/0900688a80134f59/dx6490Fea_1R.jpghttp://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/56/0900688a80134f56/dx6490Fea_5R.jpg

[Toe]

LOL, if that's an April fool's joke, it's not very funny. In fact it's very naive... no wait, I'm sorry, forgot that's the way J6Ps behave.
Just tellin' it like I saw it... manual explicitly said not to use disposable batteries. It didn't give anything in the way of explanation other than to say that it could damage the camera. Perhaps it was a case of poor translation from the Japanese.

I do believe that if you put an alkaline battery in a NiMH charger, it will damage the charger and/or the battery will burst. Maybe they were trying to talk about that. In any event, alkalines often run out in a matter of minutes in some digital cameras for some reason.

[iMook]

If you're looking for a point-and-shoot that takes decent 4MP pictures and is loaded with features, I'd advise you to look at the Pentax Optio S4i. I have the earlier iteration, the Optio S4, and at least 5 of my friends have the Optio S (3MP). It's very stylish, fits INSIDE a closed Altoids tin ( I carry mine in a Penguins Peppermints tin), has 3x optical zoom, and has AMAZING battery life (somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 shots, half with flash).

Check out the review (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020206pentaxoptios4i.asp).

[slipper]

ok ive decided on the S400 but the S500 might just be in my price range. but if i do have enough for a S500 i might wanna consider the DSC-V1. ok i know, this is never ending but bare with me. here are some prices i saw in the new May 04 Macworld in the Broadway Photo advertisement on page 111...

S400 - $299
S500 - $389
DSC-V1 - $394

But ok, i also saw the Sony DSC-P10 which was $319. 5mp and 3x optical zoom, it looks like an unbeatable deal. or am i wrong?

[slipper]

anyone? :o

[GorillaPaws]

it cost me $399 plus $100 for high speed (40X) 256 flash memory.

This thing takes awesome pictures, especially at night. But the best thing about this camera is that the LCD screen swings out and can rotate 180 degrees. Perfect for taking those closeups of you and your friends and seeing what you look like before you take it. This is a 4 MP camera, and the quality of the images are awesome even on photo paper. For the price this is the best camera, because no other camera had the neat LCD function. So far I have had no problems at all.

I second everything said here. I got mine for Christmas and the pictures are spectacular. It's got this panaramic mode where you can take several shots and then link them together in an included program (it runs in OSX). I used it when I took a series of great shots of the thames on that bridge overlooking the millenium wheel on my trip to London (not sure if this is a common feature on other $400 models or not). I love how the lcd swivels so it can be protected when not in use, and the auto mode works wonderfully (even when you wouldn't think the pics would come out that great). My only major complaint is that night pics seem to get a lot of red-eye when in red-eye-reducer mode, but it's never a big deal to take them out in iPhoto. Good luck on your purchase.

[Abstract]

Nikon and Canon both make the best cameras on the market, if not only because of the CCD that they use.

Since everything else has been said, I'll only add that if you get a Canon, and are (for example) looking at 2 different 4.0MP models at around the same price range, the larger sized model will generally use the better CCD, regardless of the resolution. There's a good reason why a larger camera with the same resolution costs the same as the smaller one.....its actually a better camera. ;) With smaller cameras, you pay for the size.

Lots of people, particularly girls, have found the tiny cameras with swivelling thingimajiggies to be cool, but they lack lots of features and the CCD quality. In fact, their size is comparable to a mobile phone, but imagine the entire back side to be an LCD. These types are also thin like a supermodel, but if you don't need the features...

Get a Canon A80. I bought an A60 this time last year before the A70 became popular and got it at a great deal. The A80 should be much better with the rotating LCD. I've used it once......very purdy. :) It allows you to take a picture with the camera held high above your head because you can just tilt the LCD downwards and look at what you're about to capture. I can't do that with my A60.

[Toe]

Lots of people, particularly girls, have found the tiny cameras with swivelling thingimajiggies to be cool, but they lack lots of features and the CCD quality.
While I agree with much of this sentiment, the reason I favor small cameras is because that way I use 'em.

If your camera, attachments, lenses, cards, etc. requires you to lug around a ten pound bag, you're only going to bust it out for occasional photography shoots.

If you have nothing but a very small camera in a very small case, you might be inclined to grab it before going most anywhere.

I have a case that just barely fits my Canon S40. Whenever I go biking, hiking, or just for a stroll, I just grab my camera, pop in a battery, and snap it on my belt. Even if I don't use it at all, it didn't bother me to bring it. The same can not be said for some monster dragging on your neck.

Yes, you certainly pay for smaller size (in features and/or money), but you also use it. What good is a killer camera if it sits on a shelf all the time?

[cubist]

The best middle price range camera I know is the Kodak DX6490 with a 10x zoom and large LCD making it easy to view...

Charges high-capacity lithium-ion battery in three hours or less


I've been thinking of the Fuji Finepix 3800, which has a 6X zoom and uses AA batteries. There's also an Olympus with a 10X zoom which is similar, but I think it uses a proprietary battery. Does the Kodak use a proprietary battery? I wouldn't even consider it if so.

[The_Wall]

Personally I love my Fuji F700 6 megapixel digital camera. It's not too small, but not too big. It's always in my pocket or bag and takes great pictures. Check it out.


The_Wall

[MacRAND]

I've been thinking of the
Fuji Finepix 3800, which has a 6X zoom and uses AA batteries. There's also an
Olympus with a 10X zoom which is similar, but I think it uses a proprietary battery. Does the
Kodak use a proprietary battery? I wouldn't even consider it if so.For someone to object to "rechargeable proprietary well-designed batteries" on the Kodak or even Olympus (which I think Kodak owns) would be a serious error, but a mistake that I was inclined towards (just like you) before buying a digital camera.

Although a digital camera does not use FILM, thus saving you the cost of rolls of film, development of negatives, and out-of-your-control printing, digital photograph is very demanding on power and BATTERIES, the only way to avoid wasting your money buying tons of AA Alkaline Batteries (and all the time feeding the digital monster's insatiable appetite for POWER) is to invest in a power SYSTEM that uses RECHARGEABLE batteries - a "renewable resource".

The Kodak INCLUDES all the following:
KODAK EASYSHARE DX6490 Zoom Digital Camera and
KODAK EASYSHARE Camera Dock 6000 (US & Canada Only)
Audio/video cable; USB cable; Neck strap; Lens cap with tether
KODAK EASYSHARE Li-Ion Rechargeable Battery
Battery charger

With Kodak, you are not only buying an exceptionally well-designed camera, you are getting a "complete digital camera system", including "Rechargeable Battery with battery charger" - often a $40 to $60 extra anywhere else. The only thing you should really purchase is 1 extra Kodak rechargeable Li-ion battery so you have one ready to go when the first is drained of energy and don't have to wait 3 hours for it to recharge - and, you already own the charger.

A Pentax SLR *istD digital camera and 3x zoom lens (your Kodak is 10x) comes with "throw away Li-ion battery twin packs"(two AA batteries strapped together) and the
WARNING: although AA alkaline batteries may be used, they may not handle all camera functions well, so use alkaline batteries only in an emergency.
Why do they say that? I have no clue, and frankly, it sounds dumb to me.

Digital cameras have an insatiable appetite for battery power and you either replace them with more long-lasting non-rechargeable Li-ion batteries, or you buy high-end NiMH that are rechargeable and save you money, lots of money in the long run. (avoid older, cheaper NiCD memory defect prone batteries).

Last weekend, I happily paid $40 for a quality high-speed Battery recharger at Fry's Electronics that already includes 4 AA NiMH 2000mAh (good) rated rechargeable batteries, plus a $15 pack of 4 more AA NiMH 2200mAh (best) rated batteries. Now, when the 2 twin Li-ion non-rechargeable batteries run out and get tossed (maybe 6 months or so from now) I already have a "battery power system" in place that includes a high-speed recharger and 2 sets of batteries that will handle over 1,000 recharges each.

If you want to waste money on AA throw away alkaline batteries, that's your privilege, but getting a camera that already includes both a recharger and your first set of rechargeable batteries is a blessing.

Go ahead, go with a camera that uses only AA alkaline batteries, I guarantee that if you do, someday 6 months to a year from now, when you have rushed into a Wal-Mart somewhere to buy another 16 or 32 pack of throw away AA batteries, you will remember this conversation and you won't be smiling. :( Instead, you could have reached into your camera bag, pulled out the charger, swapped battery packs, plug in the recharger, load it with discharged batteries, and be on your way. :D

Will I carry 4 AA alkaline batteries as a backup? Probably not, but being able to use them in a pinch could be a benefit. I'll stick with a rechargeable battery system just like I have with my Pentax cameras for the last 35 years and my old Kodak for the last 3. (The original rechargeable battery does need replacing, but the other one is still going strong - and, yes, they are proprietary - which also means "compact design & quality".

Kodak gives you so much more in the camera SYSTEM that it sells with its KODAK EASYSHARE DX6490 Zoom Digital Camera that unless you pay attention to the whole package (including free Dock and free recharger & battery) you may miss the value. Shucks - the 10x zoom and super large LCD on the back are what sold me, the rest I've learned to take for granted with Kodak. ;)

[MacRAND]

Just tellin' it like I saw it... manual explicitly said not to use disposable batteries. It didn't give anything in the way of explanation other than to say that it could damage the camera. Perhaps it was a case of poor translation from the Japanese.
I do believe that if you put an alkaline battery in a NiMH charger, it will damage the charger and/or the battery will burst. Maybe they were trying to talk about that. In any event, alkalines often run out in a matter of minutes in some digital cameras for some reason.Toe is CORRECT -- The best NiMH Chargers (hi-speed) WARN users
"Do NOT use this charger for either NiCD or rechargeable Alkaline batteries".
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/23/23-039.jpg $40 @ Radio Shack, less elsewhere (same manufacturer). Note the 7 functional vent slots, it has a fan to keep it from over-heating.

Their charger is specifically designed for NiMH, and is NOT designed to handle other types of batteries.

http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/23/23-532.jpg $25 @ Radio Shack, less elsewhere.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F011%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D532

Very slow (18 hours to charge 2 batteries) low-efficiency Battery Chargers can often charge ALL Types of rechargeable batteries, but even then - some have Selection Switches between NiMH and older NiCD batteries, and others will not charge Alkalines at all.
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/23/23-334.jpg $14.50 @ Radio Shack, cheaper elsewhere

The cheapest charger only charge 2 batteries at a time and take "over-night", so if your camera needs 4 batteriest to operate, that means 2 "over-night" charge periods (6-8 hours each)
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/23/23-437.jpg$10 @ Radio Shack, can't get much cheaper elsewhere
I checked with Radio Shact (tech services) and the included batteries are 1800nAh and it does chare 4 at a time

Pentax specifically warns against using Alkaline AA batteries (which will fit in the *istD digital SLR camers) except in an emergency. Use Li-ion or NiMH only.

There is a serious problem with people using Alkaline batteries AND NiMh rechargeable batteries within the same "system". My friend GG got confused and mistakenly placed the original AA Alkaline batteries in his new Monster Charger - blowing out a seam in one of the batteries - it leaked battery acid and nearly ruined his new Canon A70 digital camera.

That's a good reason to NOT use Alkaline AA batteries (except in a pinch) because all AA batteries look alike. Either go ReChargeable, or throw-away. Mixing them can be dangerous :eek: to your health and that of your $400 Digital Camera! :( Once again proving Murphy's Law.

I immediately threw the Alkalines away, forbid him to buy anything else but a 2nd rechargeable set of AA NiMN and asked him "Who's your Daddy?" He smiled and agreed.
___________________________________
Murphy's Law (if it can go wrong, it will) is the reason so many top-end cameras are thoughtfully built using proprietary batteries.
1. You can't (without breaking the camera by trying to force a battery in the wrong way) put their battery pack in backwards or upside down. I know, I've tried ...without trying. ;)
2. Specialized proprietary batteries maximize quality, design of a compact battery in a compact camera, and avoid Murphy's law.

Even the 2 twin-packs of AA Li-ion batteries that came with the Pentax SLR digital camera were specifically designed with the + and - ends properly oriented without looking - can be changed in poor light or without looking. These battery packs are designed so I could not insert them either backwards or upside down. Pentax and other fine camera manufacturers know about people like me and GG, who try to mess up their cameras. Proprietary batteries help save us from ourselves. :p

[Toe]

Four nimh AA batteries and a charger cost only $9 (http://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=9871), and a single nimh AA seems to be 50 cents (http://www.merchantamerica.com/neotec/index.php?ba=product_enlarge&product_id=31250).

There's not much excuse for blowing money on rechargables for much of anything anymore. Not to mention the waste of resources plus the non-point pollution from throwing batteries away.

[MacRAND]

Four nimh AA batteries and a charger cost only $9 (http://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=9871), and
http://www.evertek.com/partimages/MSC-V-2833-N-box.jpg

a single nimh AA seems to be 50 cents (http://www.merchantamerica.com/neotec/index.php?ba=product_enlarge&product_id=31250).
NOTE: 50¢ each plus S&H from Henderson NV
for AA NiMh 900 mAh batteries, which are hardly worth charging.

There's not much excuse for blowing money on rechargables for much of anything anymore. Not to mention the waste of resources plus the non-point pollution from throwing batteries away.While I agree with your premise about using rechargeable batteries over throw-away alkaline, I hestitate to endorse your GO CHEAP approach.

True, not everyone wants to invest in a more sophisticated high-speed charger specifically designed for NiMH only that does 4 AA or 4 AAA rechargeable batteries at a time, but long period "over-night" charges are such a drag. You can usually tell the cheap ones because they give you 2 (not 4) NiMN batteries, but batteries are rarely 2000, 2100 or 2200 mAh batteries. Often, you are lucky to see them give away a couple of 1800 mAh batteries with their charger. Low-end batteries are cheap, real cheap, but they don't hold a charge for long and can be a serious waste of time and money.

Toe has found a rather interesting charger with 4 excellent batteries for $9 (but is WHOLESALE To Dealers Only), which looks almost identical to the Radio Shack charger which also provides 4 excellent NiMH batteries for only $10 (tax, but no shipping charge - cash & carry)
PROBLEM: these appear to charge only 2 batteries at a time, and the disclosed
Charging Time is about 18 hours for just 2 batteries.
http://www.evertek.com/partimages/MSC-V-2833-N-unit.jpg

The 4 batteries alone are worth $10 and you get a FREE light, portable (vacation) charger in the process.

If I had not gone battery shopping for my digital camera this last weekend, I probably wouldn't feel so strongly. Give me a week, and I will be back to my normal "I don't care" mode.

Indeed, I may have made a serious mistake in not checking out rechargeable Li-ion batteries and chargers at Radio Shack and Best Buy. I'll probably go ahead and do so just to see what a dummy I've been. Fry's and the camera shop that had a big sale simply did not offer rechargeable Li-ion batteries or chargers. Ooops.

[slipper]

according to amazon.com....

the Canon S400 "Powered by rechargeable lithium-ion battery (NB-1LH )"

the Sony DSC-P10 "Powered by lithium-ion InfoLithium NP-FC11 battery"

i guess that means they use their own internal battery?

[MacRAND]

according to amazon.com....

the Canon S400 "Powered by rechargeable lithium-ion battery (NB-1LH )"

the Sony DSC-P10 "Powered by lithium-ion InfoLithium NP-FC11 battery"

i guess that means they use their own internal battery?If by "internal" you think they are non-removable, I don't think so otherwise they would not be supplying the battery PART # for each. These Li-ion batteries are rechargeable, high-end, removable & therefore replaceable. Excellent. NiMH batteries are not as good as Li-ion, and because of their serious "memory problem" NiCD batteries (junk) are rarely used anymore.

[18thTomorrow]

Hey,
Just wanted to let you know I love my FujiFinepix S3000. It has a great, 6x optical zoom (you can add lenses to make that even larger) and 3.2 MP. Takes great pictures and comes with great software. If you're into doing things yourself, it has some features where you can set your white balance, f-stops and stuff like that. The menus are easy to navigate and there's enough settings to make it very useful but not cumbersome. The only drawback (in my opinion) is that it uses xD cards which are a bit more expensive than other types of media.
Good luck!
Tani

[Toe]

I still don't see anyone coming up with something with more bang for the buck than the Canon PowerShot S1 IS.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canons1is/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_s1is.asp
http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/s1is/

It simply hasn't been released yet... but will be this month.

Lookie how small this 10x camera is:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/CanonS1IS/Images/inhand01-001.jpg
More Images (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canons1is/page3.asp)

[slipper]

NiMH batteries are not as good as Li-ion, and because of their serious "memory problem" NiCD batteries (junk) are rarely used anymore.
Li-ion batteries are better than NiMH? you posted where to get NiMH, where could i get Li-ion?

[MacRAND]

I still don't see anyone coming up with something with more bang for the buck than the Canon PowerShot S1 IS.
Lookie how small this 10x camera is:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/CanonS1IS/Images/inhand01-001.jpgThe outstanding feature of this digital camera is the excellent and sophisticated optical image stabilization system. What I find hard to understand is why did Canon put this feature in a "still" camera? I understand why this is done in a camcorder shooting "motion" pictures, but I'm intrigued that Canon feels it is a necessary feature for a digital still camera.

Canon always makes excellent cameras and lenses at a competitive price.
But at only 3.2 megapixels (not 4 or 5) and with such a small 1.5" LCD (it does rotate), especially when compared to the 1/3rd larger 2.2" LCD on the Kodak 6490
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/dx6490/6490_back.jpg
I'm not confident that it is very competitive in the $500 digital camera range up against the Kodak DX6490, Fuji FinePix S5000, or offerings by Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Minolta, SONY and others.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/dx6490/6490_s5000.jpg
Read: Steve's DigiCam REVIEW of Kodak 6490 & Fuji FinePix S5000 (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/dx6490.html)

There are a couple of things I must say in favor of the Canon S1 IS
• Image Optical Stabilization system has no equal (but, is it needed?)
• CompactFlash card for easily interchangeable data memory (Kodak 6409 uses SD card, which is OK)
• Accessories offered by Canon are extensive, but I'm bothered at how the Lens additions attach to the existing lens cylinder instead of a screw mount
• 3.2 MP is actually an adequate photo size for most people, unless someone is shooting with printing greater than Letter Size in mind (sometimes, that's me.)

[jaw04005]

I upgraded from the S200 to the S400. Its awesome. I would recommend pretty much anything Canon to mac users. My S400 and S9000 wide format printer are an awesome combination! Good luck with your choice.

[Toe]

The outstanding feature of this digital camera is the excellent and sophisticated optical image stabilization system. What I find hard to understand is why did Canon put this feature in a "still" camera? I understand why this is done in a camcorder shooting "motion" pictures, but I'm intrigued that Canon feels it is a necessary feature for a digital still camera.
Because of the 10x zoom. At that zoom level, you have to have a tripod, or all you get is blur.

But... with the image stabilizer, you might be able to actually point-and-shoot wildlife close-ups before the critter gets away. Try that with any other "point-and-shoot" camera, and all you get is a fuzzy critter-like-thing.

So I guess it depends on what kind of photography you do. This camera looks awesome for someone who moves around a lot and needs to snap off quick shots, even at far distances. It's like they made it just for me. :D

[Toe]

Oh, and because it has this feature (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/s1is.html):

• Movie mode w/sound, 640x480Fine, 640x480 or 320x240, 30fps or 15fps

[abhishekit]

wow...this powershot is a great cam..but it doesnt have a firewire port, so we wont be able to edit the movies on iMovie..or do we have a way around that???
thanks

[MacRAND]

Because of the 10x zoom. At that zoom level, you have to have a tripod, or all you get is blur.
But... with the image stabilizer, you might be able to actually point-and-shoot wildlife close-ups before the critter gets away. Try that with any other "point-and-shoot" camera, and all you get is a fuzzy critter-like-thing.
So I guess it depends on what kind of photography you do. This camera looks awesome for someone who moves around a lot and needs to snap off quick shots, even at far distances. It's like they made it just for me. :DThanks to you, I reviewed the $999 Canon PowerShot Pro1 and am truly impressed; I have another favorite camera, and the price is right. Depending on the "feel", I'd probably like it more than the Canon Rebel, which is the same price. At 8 mp and with that 7x zoom lens, I think Canon has a very hot camera prospect.
Note: it does not have image stabilization, and I must have missed the stats on its movie mode. ;)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/images6/canon_Pro1_sm.jpg

While optical image stabilization can be helpful in some consumer cameras, there is no substitute for a tripod or for the things serious photographers do to steady themselves and their lens while shooting. Plus, that's what shutter speeds are for and shutter priority mode.

From 1958 through 1968, Asahi-Pentax (Honeywell brand in the U.S.) made the first successful through-the-lens (TTL) internal light metering system, which revolutionized how photographers took pictures. With the Spotmatic, Pentax made single-lens-reflex cameras (SLR) and 35mm film the world standard, blowing away 120 film. Japan camera manufacturers led the way with Leica in Germany only following. However, light measuring was not yet "automatic" requiring the photographer to adjust shutter speed and aperature to get the internal light meter into the sweet zone.

When Pentax and Nikon began making "automatic" light sensing cameras, knowing how "Pros" would probably resist, they included Manual Mode. It didn't take long to give into this automatic feature, as long as we could use either shutter speed priority or aperature priority...to make us feel like we were still in control, and not the camera. Ha! Pretty soon, we began to leave lighting up to the camera entirely, so we could worry about what focal length to zoom to, focus on the subject, and most importantly of all, framing the picture.

Next came "automatic" focus - will the saints preserve us. I didn't even know Pentax was making an auto focus camera until one day my brother who lived in Japan for 5.5 years, sent me a Care package with a new all black body and 2 auto focus zoom lenses first available only in Japan. How could photography get any better than this? Problem was, the camera pretty much liked to focus on the middle, so Nikon began to complicate things with varying focus modes - where the camera looked for focus information. Hey, if the camera had a hard time focusing automatically, there was still "manual mode", remember?

Then Canon came up with an "eye-sensor" that followed eye movement to determine where a person was trying to focus by looking at an object. Now that was amazing.

Digital photography imitates film photography by adopting its standards, from ISO to ASA to priorities for shutter or aperature of lens, to all the automatic stuff, frankly making the conversion from film to digital not only easy, but very attractive for experienced photographers. Regardless, some film photographers will DIE before they give up the film medium. They may know that photography is moving away from film and towards digital, but they will never admit it...not in a lifetime.

Like Toe said, the fact is and will always remain, it is harder to shoot a telephoto shot than a wideangle. Regardless of the focal length or the shutter speed, it is ALWAYS important to hold the camera still...as in still photography. Blur is just more noticible and unforgiving with "long" telephoto lenses than with "short" wideangle or normal lenses - BUT it is still there if you don't hold the camera still. Point & shoot sounds like a gun slinger. And, something with moveable parts and as complicated as optical image stabilization is just one more thing on a camera to break or go wrong. Murphy's Law follows us everywhere.

This cross-over of still shots with a movie camcorder, and movie mode with a still digital camera is strange, to say the least. It's all made possible because its DIGITAL. I don't care how hard they try, no camcorder captures a decent still shot, and no still camera shoots a decent movie - each camera is NOT designed for the other's forte. Period. Each is a gimmick on the other camera format, and none are very good at the other. If I want a movie, I get out my Canon ZR70mc and I don't mess with capturing still shots with it.
Admittedly, digital cameras & camcorders are better than cellphone photography.

Even the Kodak DX6490 has a movie mode with sound:
movie mode: continuous digital video with audio capture, audio playback on camera
movie image resolution: 320 x 240 pixels at 20 fps
movie length: limited by capacity of external memory cardGOOD NEWS: prices continue to fall for both camcorders and for digital cameras, while quality and capability soar. Have you ever noticed that there is a NO RETURN policy on digital cameras among retailers? Sure they will replace defective cameras, but once you buy it, it's yours...and your problem, sucker.
Reason--yesterday's $4,300 digital camera just got replaced by a bigger, better and less expensive model, so its street price is now $1,800, then tomorrow or the next day, it down to half that, or less.
Or, Canon's ZR70 camcorder originally $700 is now $499 or less everywhere.
No Return because a lot of these changes happen over-night, all sales are final.

BAD NEWS: Face it, everything digital we buy today won't be worth 1/2 what we paid in 18~24 months, and we'd be lucky to get a 1/10th bid for it on eBay after 4 years. Might as well give it to one of your grade school kids to play with as a toy, a once very expensive toy. However, the flip side is that things constantly improve, and hopefully, better our lives.

[MacRAND]

wow...this powershot is a great cam..but it doesnt have a firewire port, so we wont be able to edit the movies on iMovie..or do we have a way around that??? thanks1. It is digital information
2. Download the "movie" file onto your hard drive either using the USB cable or even better a card reader (CompactFlash?).
3. Look for ways of converting it into a format acceptable to iMovie like DV, QuickTime. The Manual for your camera may be a big help, at least it will tell you what you have, and my suggest where to go.
4. Import the FILE into iMovie and give her a twirl.

The only reason I'm not sure whether this can be done, or exactly how, is I have never had to do it. If I want a movie, I use a movie camcorder. If I want a still photo, I use a digital camera.

Let us know what happens. Okay? ;)

[Sparky's]

I have been using Olympus both standard 35mm bodies and Digital cameras professionally and for screwing around vacation stuff and I am very satisfied with the ease of use and functionality.
Check this out
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_product_lobbypage.asp?l=1&p=16&bc=2&product=869

And then browse the complete Olympus line :cool: