The Passion of the Steve Jobs

[wowser]

As a switcher, I am coming over from having Bill Gates owner of the company to this Steve Jobs. Why do people hold him in such high regard when really he is just a CEO? I don't understand this love people seem to have for him

[Interiority]

Steve Jobs is co-founder of Apple Computer, and creator of Macintosh. While Steve is not single-handedly responsible, Apple work relentlessly to produce an enabling platform that is consistent with, and meets the high standards of, his vision.

Steve is a brilliant marketeer and salesman whose critical understanding of design and technology allows for the creation of a computing experience that is unrivaled in reliability, stability, aesthetics, easy of use and simple enjoyment. Very few other corporations retain products that are so keenly aligned to the values of their creators.

The man is a living God....

[Danrose1977]

His personal investment in the company is pretty darn large. $1 a year salary (admitedly taking stock options in recompense) shows this.

[robbieduncan]

and creator of Macintosh.

This is a bit dubious. The origin vision was not his and he basically muscled his way into control of the project: Jef Raskin (http://www.folklore.org/ProjectView.py?project=Macintosh&characters=Jef%20Raskin&detail=medium)

[Interiority]

OK - My previous post does sound a little over the top doesn't it?

I am aware of the Mac's history and Jef Raskin's involvement. I do believe that Steve's personality is stamped all over the Mac and that it wouldn't be close to what it is today without him. Whether this is entirely a good thing or not is for others to debate... the story about Apple engineers having to go behind his back to allow for memory expansion ability on the original Mac springs to mind.

Clearly Steve has a 'dark side' too... Allegedly difficult to work with, refusal to compromise leading to high prices and infrequent updates / delays being the most obvious manifestations.

I still think he's a living God though... :)

[blue&whiteman]

steve introduced the way of thinking that computers should be used to create things and not just crunch numbers. this is why he is so great.

[iGav]

steve jobs is more relevant to my everyday existence and life than jesus and god. :)

[7on]

I see it like this...
Bill Gates = Computer Nerd
Steve Jobs = Marketing/Sales Genius

Therefore Steve is a better people person than Bill. I think Steve tries to keep his computers simple enough for anyone to use, but strives for ones powerful enough to be sold and used for scientists too. Also, Steve didn't help build the computers did he? I always thought of him as the visionary and had techy people under him to build the things. Gates and Torvalds seem more 'withdrawn' from society much like that one kid that was in the back of your class that smelled weird, played to much D&D, and had too much Star Trek knowledge.

Overall, Jobs prolly is just one of those people everyone likes for no apparent reason. Noone knows why, but they like him.

[Savage Henry]

The two associations I like to bring are the performance of the person (as you say they are merely CEO) when it [i]really[/counts] for the company.

Gates: giving evidence in the whole IE / Netscape furore was childlike in the way he dealt with the accusations and evidence when he sat in the stand.
Jobs: released the Mac and changed the world on the strength of his vision and personality.

There are alternatives and flipsides, but those comparisions are the 2 which stick with me.

[tom.96]

I think that Steve Jobs is great.
Why?
Because he is able to look forward and see the bigger picture in business. What do consumers want? What does society demand? He's given us the answers to these questions throughout his career. As an example, people wanted a machine to use for the internet that was cheap, easy to use and fun = imac. A simple concept but excellently executed.

I reckon that his quest for perfect is admirable- he is never complacent, always seeking to innovate. That is what we need today!!!!

long live steve!!

[arsbanned]

I guess the question that springs to mind for me is this:
If Steve is a God, marketing genius, guru from the land of all that is good- which seems to be universally accepted-at least in here- why does Apple currently have around 3% of the personal computer market?
Yeah, Bill is a weird guy and you can make fun of him all you want, but he commands a fortune that could buy Apple many many times over.
?
Note: I am not a Gates fan, nor a Jobs fan. Just trying to flesh this thing out a little. :D

[kuyu]

Just like Gates, Jobs is filthy rich too. However, Jobs sees himself as just another guy that works at Apple. His office isn't extravegant. He wears the same clothes we all do (jeans, tennis shoes). He understands the consumer and what we demand in a product.

The 5% thing is a bit misleading. In the arena's in which they compete, Apple is more like 75%. Analogy: Hummer is hands down best SUV, but only has 1% market share in SUV market. Why? Most people don't care about turbo-offroad capabilities, but everyone acknowledge's the hummer's surperiority. In hummer's market, though, they have 100% market share (Army).

Bottom line: Gates wants your money, Jobs wants your business. Without gaming, the wintel platform would die quickly. Without gaming, the mac platform is thriving.

[arsbanned]

Gates is #1 on Forbes Jobs is #262.
The question still stands though, why does Apple command so little market share (less than 3% according to most sources) when Job's claimed marketing skills are so far superior?
And um, please, the car analogies are killing me. :D

Also, it's not all games on the Windows platform. Office Apps make up about 35% of MS's PC software sales. In fact, I'm a support consultant and very seldom does a business have me come in to fix a game. :D

[MisterMe]

As a switcher, I am coming over from having Bill Gates owner of the company to this Steve Jobs. Why do people hold him in such high regard when really he is just a CEO? I don't understand this love people seem to have for himIn 1975, Bill Gates wrote a letter to BYTE magazine. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak also wrote a letter to the magazine. In his letter, Gates complained about piracy of his BASIC software. In their letter, the two Steves explained why they chose the 6502 over the Z80 as the CPU for their new computer. (The Z80 was too expensive.) Those 1975 letters don't tell you everything about the two men, but they tell you a lot.

[dermeister]

This is a bit dubious. The origin vision was not his and he basically muscled his way into control of the project: Jef Raskin (http://www.folklore.org/ProjectView.py?project=Macintosh&characters=Jef%20Raskin&detail=medium)
Actually the 1984 macinstosh that we know has nothing to do with Raskin. Steve took over the project in it's EARLY infancy, and while he kept (to his dislike at first) the name Macintosh because everybody was used to it, it is completely his vision. The Macintosh Raskin wanted to make was WAY different... I think he was even against the mouse if my memory serves me right.

[fistful]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?

[blue&whiteman]

I don't like people that don't like to like stuff...

like ya know?

[Savage Henry]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?

Nah. I've been to loads of those kinds of conferences and fundamentally there is nothing special in the way those meetings are conducted from any other big business promotional meetings. It's just at Apple the attendees seem to listen to the speaker, unlike the dismal ones I attend.

As for Gates is #1 on Forbes Jobs is #262.
The question still stands though, why does Apple command so little market share (less than 3% according to most sources) when Job's claimed marketing skills are so far superior?
And um, please, the car analogies are killing me.

If you can't recognise a superior product then stop asking for explanations. By your ratitionale, a football team with more money than every other team would always win everything ever and ever for they are biggest and therefore best. Sadly that is not true. Biggest does not equal best.

[arsbanned]

Like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me.

:D But like car accidents, we can't look away. At least I can't. :D


If you can't recognise a superior product then stop asking for explanations.

Easy there, Henry. I'm using a Mac, don't shoot me or anything.
The discussion is covering personalities, not really the product. The reason I asked the question is because I'm curious.
Relax. Note that no where did I claim Gate's product is better. If anything, I would say the opposite is true. But I don't think that is the topic of discussion at the moment.
re (trying) to discuss the persona marketing prowess

[jazzmfk]

To a certain extent, I think the whole marketshare problem started with a fateful decision made very early in the game:


Apple flooded the schools with computers and educational programs/games, hoping that the kiddies would go home and convince their parental units to buy a computer - and that computer would be an Apple. (yea! Logo at home!)

The dark side flooded buisnesses with computers and office applications; Daddy stopped by the computer store on the way home and bought a PC junior.

Yes, that's way oversimplified, but it was certainly a factor early on.

[JesseJames]

Oh Hell. I just like Macs because it just "feels" better than windows. Those who know will agree.
I also appreciate the design engineers efforts in their machines. Only Sony comes close in that regard.

[Savage Henry]

:D But like car accidents, we can't look away. At least I can't. :D




Easy there, Henry. I'm using a Mac, don't shoot me or anything.
The discussion is covering personalities, not really the product. The reason I asked the question is because I'm curious.
Relax. Note that no where did I claim Gate's product is better. If anything, I would say the opposite is true. But I don't think that is the topic of discussion at the moment.
re (trying) to discuss the persona marketing prowess


Sorry squire, I retract my impulsive response. I just felt you implied, by using the Forbes list, the superiority of the product which put Gates on top of it. I totally agree with you re the BMW analogies!

Persona-wise, I've not met either so I can't really say. I very much doubt they are any different to other CEOs. But as much as it's easy to slag Gates off, at least he's not Steve Bulmer. Jobs puts across a more confident style.

[matthew24]

Apple's vision: Don't make a computer more complicated then strictly necessary, so that none IT people won't have any (if possible) headaches.

Microsoft: being controlled by the OS by making the OS as complicated as possible, so only nerds are able to maintain the OS at an 'acceptable' level.

Steve assures the difference ( 'Think Different' ) vision.

[agreenster]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?

Those people are just fans of the Mac. Using your logic, people who scream and cheer at sporting events are in cults too. Hmm. Maybe there's some merit in that...

The really really weird ones are just fans with nothing better in their life. Kinda sad really.

[rueyeet]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?

I dunno...when they're webcast, archived in QuickTime, shown at every Apple Store theatre, and reported on by most major tech press outlets, I'd scarcely call them "secret". :D

Apple in general, and Steve Jobs in particular, has the ability to get people truly excited about Apple products. In years of Windows use, I've viewed all the various Office and OS upgrades as "Oh God, what are they going to do to us now?", but every new release of OS X contains new stuff that I'd love to have and use....more of a "Wow, what cool new stuff does Apple have for us this time?"

It's generally agreed that without Steve Jobs, Apple as we know it would not exist...in fact, if they hadn't got him back, Apple's share would probably be 0% and the company long since defunct. Instead of looking at it as a question of "If Jobs is so great, why isn't Apple's marketshare higher?" think of it as quite likely that it's due to Jobs that Apple still has any marketshare at all, in the face of Microsoft's monopoly tactics.

[markjones05]

I see it like this...
Bill Gates = Computer Nerd
Steve Jobs = Marketing/Sales Genius



I dont see why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is a marketing and sales genius. How is relying on word of mouth and a few ipod commercials to sell Apples a marketing/advertising phenomenon. I think the worst thing about Apples is there marketing strategy. IMHO

[sethypoo]

steve jobs is more relevant to my everyday existence and life than jesus and god. :)

To have a mortal "more relevant" to my existence than God would be a sad reality.

[wowser]

It seems Jobs is better because he offers a superior product, is what i can deduce from the posts. i think what is worse is that Gates is now trying to appear cool, which he can't do. Jobs seems less geeky. The very mention of Jobs's name seems to stir up passion!

[sethypoo]

Just to ponder:

Passion- from Late Latin, physical suffering, martyrdom, sinful desire, from Latin, an undergoing, from passus, past participle of pat, to suffer.

That's the original definition, now "passion" has come to mean lust, desire, or strong feelings (sexual or otherwise).

[wowser]

Just to ponder:

Passion- from Late Latin, physical suffering, martyrdom, sinful desire, from Latin, an undergoing, from passus, past participle of pat, to suffer.

That's the original definition, now "passion" has come to mean lust, desire, or strong feelings (sexual or otherwise).

yeah - i guess the film refers to the suffering part, but my thread uses the 'having a love for' meaning. :)

[arsbanned]

Sorry squire, I retract my impulsive response. I just felt you implied, by using the Forbes list, the superiority of the product which put Gates on top of it. I totally agree with you re the BMW analogies!

Persona-wise, I've not met either so I can't really say. I very much doubt they are any different to other CEOs. But as much as it's easy to slag Gates off, at least he's not Steve Bulmer. Jobs puts across a more confident style.

Nahhh, it was all me. :D I didn't mean to come off like a heavy.
I agree, Balmer is pretty wacked out.

I dont see why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is a marketing and sales genius. How is relying on word of mouth and a few ipod commercials to sell Apples a marketing/advertising phenomenon. I think the worst thing about Apples is there marketing strategy. IMHO

Bite your tongue! :D Actually, Apple has had some pretty memorable ad campaigns. How about the whole Switch thing? The "Snail" ads. The 1984 ad.

[benixau]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?
I dunno...when they're webcast, archived in QuickTime, shown at every Apple Store theatre, and reported on by most major tech press outlets, I'd scarcely call them "secret". :D

Apple in general, and Steve Jobs in particular, has the ability to get people truly excited about Apple products. In years of Windows use, I've viewed all the various Office and OS upgrades as "Oh God, what are they going to do to us now?", but every new release of OS X contains new stuff that I'd love to have and use....more of a "Wow, what cool new stuff does Apple have for us this time?"

It's generally agreed that without Steve Jobs, Apple as we know it would not exist...in fact, if they hadn't got him back, Apple's share would probably be 0% and the company long since defunct. Instead of looking at it as a question of "If Jobs is so great, why isn't Apple's marketshare higher?" think of it as quite likely that it's due to Jobs that Apple still has any marketshare at all, in the face of Microsoft's monopoly tactics.

you both know that SJ has a dedicated worldwide live QT stream + his own satelite co-ordinates for at least MWSF? Bill has to use good ol' CNN for national coverage only.

a cult? well - yes. I watch MWSF every year via QT - at 2am in the morning (<-- check loc.)

[thejazzman10]

like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?
why do we have to turn this into a racial thread?? The keynote speeches are in no way a cult meeting, alot of the people enjoy them because Steve-o is such a good speaker...
Steve Jobs =innovator
Bil gates=copycat

P.S. i'm not saying steve is a saint....after all, he did prank call the pope :D :D

[Makosuke]

The differences between the two, and why Steve has "followers", whereas everybody hates Gates, are pretty clear if you pay attention to the history of the men at all.

Basically, Steve Jobs sees the computer, and the computing experience, as his art. Your computer and the way it runs is his artistic vision, and so although he's overly controlling of it (most artists are), he strives to make it work just right.

Bill Gates wants control, but he wants control for control's sake--so long as it's his product, and he gets a slice of what you do with it, he could care less how it works. The mentality of an artist versus the mentality of a businessman (or megalomaniac).

Gates' style may have advantages in flexibility, but Jobs' has the leg up on elegance and producing a product that feels good to use, even if it's more expensive. I'll take the latter, personally.


My detailed analysis:

Steve Jobs was never a particularly good geek--he was a visionary. He had great ideas about ways to make computers friendly, fun, and part of a normal person's life. That's where the Apple came from, that's where the original Macintosh came from, that's where the iMac came from, and that's where iLife and the iPod came from. He didn't design any of those products personally, but he saw how something like them could make a difference to ordinary people.

He also tried to do the same with Next, but only succeded in producing a cool computer that nobody used and a very nice Unix variant OS that a few people really loved.

As for evidence of what Steve's done for Apple, it's simple: When he was first there, the Apple line was successful and fun. The early Macs were successful and fun. Then Steve left, and we got a line of so-so but still nice Macs. Then we got another CEO (Gil Amelio) who tried to run Apple like a "normal" business--commodity computers, licensing, a functional but uncreative OS. What did that produce? Red ink, falling marketshare, and boring computers (though the 8600s weren't bad). Steve came back, and we immediately got the iMac--the first computer that was fun to look at--and later OSX and the whole iLife shebang. No question that's all Steve, and even if Apple's marketshare is limited, it's what keeps them relevant and a source of pride for people who own their products.

Contrast all that with Bill Gates. Bill Gates is a geek, and a good one. And like Steve Jobs, he's something of a control freak. But unlike Steve, who likes complete control over "his" product, Gates wants complete control over the user through the product. The end result is a hand in every aspect of the computing experience, and maximum profit from it.

Examples: Gates didn't really want to produce a beautiful, elegant web browser because Netscape was clunky, he just wanted everybody to use MS's browser because the web was the next big thing. IE was and is functional, but little more, and now that they "won", they don't even care enough to update it (try to imagine Apple, or any non-monopolistic company, doing that). Same with Windows on a whole--functional enough to keep competitors at bay, little more. Same with MSN, and everything else they do.

Again, the contrast is that Gates merely wants to control everything so that noone else can muscle in on their territory (monopoly), where Jobs wants control of the artistic experience of computing (hardware, software, and everything in between). Gates doesn't care what you do with it so long as it all runs through his systems and he gets a financial cut, where Steve cares very much what you do with it because it's his artistic vision.

[wowser]

Ah! i didn't realise he left and came back with the iMac - i can see why people see him as a saviour

[blue&whiteman]

Ah! i didn't realise he left and came back with the iMac - i can see why people see him as a saviour


the 3-4 years before jobs came back were pretty sad for apple. way too many models and configs, not enough sales, prices were way too high. the one good thing that came out of this era was the 9600. I loved those towers. they were bigger than the G5 is.

[adamjay]

look at the fact that jobs' main salary comes from Pixar.. who REVOLUTIONIZED computer animation. as an electronic music producer, i can say that there is no company that producers have more faith in than Apple, they have also revolutionized making music on computers... and no i'm not talking about garage band. Old applications like Opcode Vision.. and the first applications to implement MIDI were released on the Macintosh platform first. Steve is a creator, and people look up to him and in some instances envy him for his creativity.

what do people envy about bill gates? his ability to make billions and billions of dollars. pretty darn shallow if you ask me.

[Apple //e]

i wonder if theres anyone else out there like me, who couldnt care less about either bill gates or steve jobs?

[atari1356]

Actually the 1984 macinstosh that we know has nothing to do with Raskin. Steve took over the project in it's EARLY infancy, and while he kept (to his dislike at first) the name Macintosh because everybody was used to it, it is completely his vision. The Macintosh Raskin wanted to make was WAY different... I think he was even against the mouse if my memory serves me right.

Yeah, that sounds about right after reading this:

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=The_Father_of_The_Macintosh.txt&characters=Jef%20Raskin&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date

[Fukui]

i wonder if theres anyone else out there like me, who couldnt care less about either bill gates or steve jobs?

Lots. But...

These two have had a HUGE effect on this world.
One, without the Mac we probably would just be starting to discover this whole "GUI" thing. Secondly, when Steve started NeXT, they created the first usable (by normal people) UNIX. One of the best if not the most elegantly designed Object Oriented programming environments (openstep/Cocoa) that was mimicked time and again by taligent, Java, .NET ect. The first web browser, the first web server was designed on NeXT. WebObjects, in 1994 was what .NET aims for today (steve was preaching e-comerce as the webs' killer app while most were trying to figure out what the internet was). The iMac 1 and 2 were ground breaking products etc. Not to mention Pixar...steve creates, bill imitates.

And to those who wonder why he's not more successful have to understand that steve is a lot less pragmatic than bill is (until things get to the wire like they did at NeXT). Bill will sell his brand away (multiple manufactures) to gain control in some form while steve would rather have less market but the product have his only logo on only etc...kind of like sony...well except for Vaio...

[wowser]

I think i may have used some of these dull apples in the past

[blue&whiteman]

who has seen pirates of silicone valley? good movie..

[redAPPLE]

this got me thinking. is it not possible, that the reason why Apple's computer marketshare is so low, is because the computers do not go broken for a long long time?

well it might be one of the reasons.

so think about it. one guy buys a mac. he uses it for "everything". it works. another guy buys a pc. it gets obsolete in let us say, six months. a new OS comes out. he plays games. the game only works with one OS. he buys another pc because the new bookkeeping program only works with a newer OS. and after another six months...

[iGav]

To have a mortal "more relevant" to my existence than God would be a sad reality.

I'm an Atheist so the whole j.c./god thing doesn't affect me in the slightest... where as I couldn't do what I do without my Mac... ;)