MSN Messenger 4.0 (Images)

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/msnmessenger4.html) a brief overview of the upcoming MSN Messanger 4.0 alongside screenshots of the current beta.

The upgrade provides integration with Entourage:mac 2004, new emoticons, saving conversations as web pages, and other new options.

The new version of Messenger is expected in June.

[gwuMACaddict]

eh... adium all the way! :D

[javabear90]

why would I want to use msn??

[Trowaman]

and . . . no one cares. Everyone I know uses AIM or iChat AV. A few of my friends tried ICQ but in the end, they all came back to AIM.

[SuperChuck]

That is the ugliest chat interface I have ever seen. I sincerely hope they don't manage to monopolize the chat-app market, as well.

[asif3]

Just FYI, MSN is still used a lot here int he UK. We haven't really caught on to AIM.
iChat AV with MSN compatibility would be cool.

[johnnyjibbs]

I'll stick with Proteus now that I've paid for it. MSN 4 is still not on par with the Windows version so what's the point. Regarding AIM, unfortunately I'm the one I know on a Mac and no-one outside the US uses AIM (plus I get major complaints from people who I try to convert to AIM - it causes system freezes with XP not to mention it's horrid ads and GUI). All my friends are on MSN so I have to like it or lump it.

[coolfactor]

That is the ugliest chat interface I have ever seen. I sincerely hope they don't manage to monopolize the chat-app market, as well.

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there. I've been trying to get some of my friends to switch to AIM so I can use iChat, but it's not easy.

I sure hope MS delivers a kick-ass product... it's embarrasing showing off a Mac with such a pathetic version of MSN (by today's standards).

[kotovasii]

and . . . no one cares. Everyone I know uses AIM or iChat AV. A few of my friends tried ICQ but in the end, they all came back to AIM.
The majority of people in Europe (especially UK universities) use either yahoo or MSM, and whether I like it or not I *have* to use MSM to talk to most of my friends, so I guess it IS a good news.
PS AIM is totally American and I know nobody in the old world who actually uses that.

[johnnyjibbs]

That is the ugliest chat interface I have ever seen. I sincerely hope they don't manage to monopolize the chat-app market, as well.
Well, I think that outside of America they have. The other problem with AIM is I think the only thing people hate more than Microsoft is AOL... :rolleyes: :D

[fixyourthinking]

and . . . no one cares. Everyone I know uses AIM or iChat AV. A few of my friends tried ICQ but in the end, they all came back to AIM.

I care, eventhough I don't use it. I actually use fire which has MSN, Yahoo,*AIM, ICQ built in.

It already has the log feature - logging to a web page is actually a cool idea.

Has anyone tried this feature on the PC side? Can they point me to a "logged conversation" webpage? Are there ads on the page?

This would be a REALLY easy way for a website to have a forum.

[Trowaman]

The majority of people in Europe (especially UK universities) use either yahoo or MSM, and whether I like it or not I *have* to use MSM to talk to most of my friends, so I guess it IS a good news.
PS AIM is totally American and I know nobody in the old world who actually uses that.

intriguing, thank you for enlighting me.

[slightly]

I can't believe Microsoft would seriously consider bringing out a new .0 version of MSN Messenger with no audio or video capabilities, when so many freeware products like Skype now have audio as standard.

As many posters have already pointed out, MSN has the largest IM community in the UK (and I believe is second to ICQ in Europe), Since iChat isn't yet compatible with the MSN network, Microsoft can easily tap into the segment of Mac owners who want to be able to use A/V messenging with PC owners.

[Chealion]

AFAIK, MSN Messenger 4.0 is not Cocoa, so props to them for the port. That alone I guess is worth a .0 update to them.

Keyword: them.

I might actually warm up to it if it doesn't crash or disconnect as often as 3.5.

Really disappointed about the web cam support though.

[Wuddel]

Lots of MSN-usage in "my" institute since you need no admin rights (because it is preinstalled). Here in Germany nearly everyone uses ICQ.

[CmdrLaForge]

On my PC I use Trillian. Is there anything like that on the Mac side ?

How can someone vote negative ? How can you vote on this at all ?

[gopher]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/msnmessenger4.html) a brief overview of the upcoming MSN Messanger 4.0 alongside screenshots of the current beta.

The upgrade provides integration with Entourage:mac 2004, new emoticons, saving conversations as web pages, and other new options.

The new version of Messenger is expected in June.

Anybody succeed in getting the current instant messanger to work? I've got a customer who appears to have lost his password when he attempts to give MSN's website the e-mail address to send his new password to, it never e-mails him a new one. He tries to construct a new account, and again, it doesn't e-mail him the website he needs to confirm his registration. We are sort of stuck because I can't find a direct contact at Microsoft that deals with Mac Messenger issues.

[DPazdanISU]

In my opinion Microsoft making further versions of apps for osx sucks. I would rather not have any microsoft apps on my mac because that just allows them to make a profit off of us :( I really like how Apple has introduced apps like iChat, Safari, and iTunes to compete with microsofts dominant apps. I mean last time I checked the only applications that ever froze on me on my mac were Word and Internet Explorer.

[jouster]

I don't see why people rate this negative; even if you don't like the MSN solution or protocol, surely it's useful to have an up-to-date implementation? And if it becomes the dominant chat app, then isn't it essential to have one?

[wtmcgee]

good to see they are updating MSN for the mac. however, it doesnt look that different to me, and the UI looks almost the same. ill talk to the few people i know on MSN via adium 2.

[bar italia]

I don't see why people rate this negative

I don't see why you would care one way or another.

[beg_ne]

Pretty sad Microsoft, you have billions and billions of dollars to spend, yet you can't even update your chat client for us so it's worth anything.

And sadly again programmers are doing in their spare time for free what you can't seem to do at all, atleast with aMSN we can view other users profile pictures.

Atleast we get a fair amount of respect in the IM front with AIM and iChat.

MSN - No Video chat, voice chat, chat rooms or profile pictures
Yahoo - no chat rooms, no voice, pathetic 2fps video

Paltalk - I used to use alot when i had a PC. They had planned for a Mac version but backed out, i guess 10+ million(or whatever the current # of OS X users are) more potential users wasn't a big enough carrot for them...

I really wish we could get some standards here, all these different IM makers should be forced to have atleast a common feature set and be able to interoperate with each other, AND work equally as well in that feature set on Mac, Linux and Windows.

We should at the very least:
Be able to text chat with other users
Send files and pictures to other users
View other users profile pictures/avatars
Join multi-user chat rooms
Voice chat with other users
Video chat with other users

Maybe even have voice and or video chats in multi-user chat rooms.

The rest of the stuff in IM clients is useless fluff IMO. And if somone wants to play some games, or have themes for chat windows then each company can advertise that as the killer feature for their client.

[sphereboy]

i dont' get it. why do they still use the pinstripes? .. have they not realized that a new OS has come out by the name of, Panther?

Geez Louise... get a clue. M$ is always a step behind at least design wise... for example look at the next version of Office.. it still looks like the previous version.. why would anyone be persuaded to buy something that looks exactly the same, and probably doesn't even work as good.

Oh well, just needed to vent a bit. Thanks for listening.

[kwajo.com]

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there.

I have to agree, everyone I know is locked into msn here in the maritimes, and all my friends from ontario use it exclusively as well. a few remaining pockets of ICQ exist but only as a backup really. like it or not there are millions of msn users and we need to be able to communicate with them. so don't assume nobody cares, this is a pretty big deal to lots of us.

lately i've been using amsn which, while very ugly, is the best solution right now since a number of the third-party clients (fire, proteus, etc.) have been having problems with the msn servers. amsn has a number of features from the windows version, and seeing as how it is only a very early release, it shows a lot of promise. the biggest downside outside it's interface is that it is a processor hog at times.

[The Cheat]

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there. I've been trying to get some of my friends to switch to AIM so I can use iChat, but it's not easy.

So true. Nobody in Canada uses anything other than MSN - well, except some Americans I know who came up here to go to school :rolleyes:. I dream of the day when I get to ditch the terrible MSN client for iChat!

[Koodauw]

No web cam support? Come one MS you can do better than that. If MSN is used so heavily outside of the US, I would think MS would want to take advantage of that and get in the video support. Oh well, glad all my friends use AIM. Seeing as how AIM is not used much outside of the US, any chance Apple could release an MSN/other compatable version of iChat for non-US customers?

[sushi]

In my opinion Microsoft making further versions of apps for osx sucks.
Unfortunately, this is a very narrow minded view that I hope never comes to fruition. I hope that MSFT continues to update Office and VPC.

In the FWIW department, there are many folks that when they look at the possibility of switching, having MSFT Word, Excel and PP on the Mac go a long ways in making it more easy for them to consider switching. For these soles, unfortunate or not, they must have compatability with these three apps since their business/jobs rely upon it.

Sushi

[djdarlek]

I don't see why people rate this negative; even if you don't like the MSN solution or protocol, surely it's useful to have an up-to-date implementation? And if it becomes the dominant chat app, then isn't it essential to have one?

i think people are just pissed that the 'update' is hardly that. Same skin, same old MSN with limited features and a few new smileys.

As someone pointed out before, you can already use a program that connects to the majority of the major chat clients at once, so why the hell hasn't Apple made MSN support an essential part of iChat? oh, and Yahoo/ICQ etc... all of them. I want just ONE chat app, not 4! :'(

Plus living in the UK, i can vouche for the fact that NOBODY uses AIM over here.. NOBODY! N-O-B-O-D-Y

***** Buddies! We want Friends!

:D

[ant_s]

To make this release worthwhile, it would be easy for them to add the games that they already run in the Windows version, as they are powered by Flash - c'mon Microsoft...do it properly

[TorbX]

:( :( :mad: :mad: :(


I'm just mad at MS. Its 3 days of work for a few of their programmers, still they wont do it.

IF they did it, it would simply KILL iChat's chances in non-AIM-countries.

If I should use iChat, I would have to get friends with either Macs or the guts to install AIM if they were on PeeCee's. But they wont, because AIM is such an uggly program. I can't understand that americans prefer it instead of MSN 6.1, wich actually is beautiful compared to AIM.

[BornAgainMac]

Microsoft development for the Mac is so boring!!!!

[NinjaMonkey]

:( :( :mad: :mad: :(


I'm just mad at MS. Its 3 days of work for a few of their programmers, still they wont do it.

IF they did it, it would simply KILL iChat's chances in non-AIM-countries.

If I should use iChat, I would have to get friends with either Macs or the guts to install AIM if they were on PeeCee's. But they wont, because AIM is such an uggly program. I can't understand that americans prefer it instead of MSN 6.1, wich actually is beautiful compared to AIM.


AIM is ugly but it was one of the first IM clients. I think thats why most here in the US use AIM, simply because it has been around forever. I also remember when MSN came out, they had to have AIM support because no one would use it but AOL kept blocking them and MS finally gave up.

[Krrill]

It's funny listening to people say Microsoft blows etc etc, when AIM blows just as much, and is making a profit off of us too... I do not see a difference between the companies. The only thing I can say towards AIM and MSN, is that I have more friends that use MSN, then they use AIM or ICQ...

And to a friend who said: "Come on guys get with the program use AIM! Everyone else on Macs use it!" - So, I'm guessing cause it's bundled means we should all use it? This is exactly why Microsoft is getting lawsuits these days, cause they keep bundling software together. So in the end, no, not everyone uses AIM just cause they have a mac, and IMO I believe that the ability to pick and choose is a must for everyone as it allows for free thinking, and that is the point of Apple or atleast it used to be? Can't tell with Apple these days.

But yes, Microsoft seems to be lacking with the updates they put in. But I would feel very alienated from Apple in this day and age with how Apple is acting towards it's competition. Will Apple take on Adobe next? They are taking on a lot of other companies with apps like iMovie and Garageband.

Apple is doing the exact same thing that Microsoft was/is doing. Creating apps that either come bundled or are made by Apple. E.G. - Safari (IE), Appleworks (Office), iTunes (Media Player) - what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft??? I'm going to get flamed etc etc, and I'm a mac lover myself, but if you really look hard, what's putting them apart from eachother these days?

[bitfactory]

move all the coders (except the UI person) over to entourage and get it properly working with Exchange Server. no one gives a damn about your MSN messenger. put the coders where you may make some money (and solve a lot of headaches). weak!!!

[candan9019]

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there.

Thats so true. When I lived in the states everyone used aim. Up here everyone uses msn. Yesterday I told my cousin I use aim and she just looked at me with a blank stare. So now I use iChat for my American friends and msn and yahoo for my Canadian friends.

I don't understand is it because it has America in it's title or what, why can't they use aim?

[neon]

Plus living in the UK, i can vouche for the fact that NOBODY uses AIM over here.. NOBODY! N-O-B-O-D-Y

***** Buddies! We want Friends!

:D
this is starting to irritate. i use aim NOT msn and am in the uk. the same goes for most people i know. in fact only two people spring to mind that dont use aim.

in fact, i dont even mind aims quite unattractive interface, i like that it keeps the whole thing simple, hardly any smilies (and they all suck except bondage, slut and precious (:-x :-* and O:-) ) :p )

the fancier the im app, the less the process of chatting relies on actual conversation.

just my humble opinion.

[ssnmx]

It's funny listening to people say Microsoft blows etc etc, when AIM blows just as much, and is making a profit off of us too... I do not see a difference between the companies. The only thing I can say towards AIM and MSN, is that I have more friends that use MSN, then they use AIM or ICQ...

And to a friend who said: "Come on guys get with the program use AIM! Everyone else on Macs use it!" - To that end, no, not everyone uses AIM just cause they have a mac, and IMO I believe that the ability to pick and choose is a must for everyone as it allows for free thinking, and that is the point of Apple.

But yes, Microsoft seems to be lacking with the updates they put in. But I would feel very alienated from Apple in this day and age with how Apple is acting towards it's competition. Will Apple take on Adobe next? They are taking on a lot of other companies with apps like iMovie and Garageband.

Apple is doing the exact same thing that Microsoft was/is doing. Creating apps that either come bundled or are made by Apple. E.G. - Safari (IE), Appleworks (Office), iTunes (Media Player) - what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft??? I'm going to get flamed etc etc, and I'm a mac lover myself, but if you really look hard, what's putting them apart from eachother these days?


:eek: There is A LOT of difference. It's not just that MS has apps that come bundled with windows, it's that they have lines in the windows code to take on its competitors, that is, to prevent apps from competitors from working the way they should. This is part of the reason why the EU had them "punished"

Besides, Apple just gives you more choices, and better choices. Proof of that is that both IE and Safari come with OSX.

Another difference is that Apple uses industry standards.
MS loves to put their "twist" into everything and then once everyone has it they change it, they charge for it, and they control what happens.
Again IE is a nice example. They stopped developing for any OS other than windows... what about the losers who developed their websites to work with IE and don't have windows? That would suck

Besides, Apple doesn't include inferior apps with OSX. That can't be said about MS

[ssnmx]

I don't see why people rate this negative; even if you don't like the MSN solution or protocol, surely it's useful to have an up-to-date implementation? And if it becomes the dominant chat app, then isn't it essential to have one?

I use MSN all the time. I have one pathetic "buddy" in iChat and that is because I wanted to try it.

BUT this is BAD news... c'mon! MSN for windows is really cool, and in the mac this seems like the first version I downloaded for a PC 4 years ago! No webcam?? WTF? :mad:

In Mexico everybody uses crappy MSN, so to chat with friends and family I have to use it, but it's OBVIOUSLY inferior on the mac.
It's like "BIG NEWS, BIG NEWS!! New version of MSN includes all of the emoticos" :eek: :(

Not new interface, no web cam, no nothing.
Hope at least they make it more stable and improve the connection!! :mad:

Venting here, sorry. MSN sucks. This update sucks.

[JohnWhitney]

And have any of you read the EULA that comes with MS Messenger on the Mac (and presumably, on the PC as well)?

I stopped using MSM on the last revision due to the clauses in the EULA which stated (paraphrased):

"1. We provide updates periodically. We can revoke your right to use the program if you do not upgrade and we want you to."

"2. We are allowed to charge for upgrades if we want to."

This effectively says I am renting their software. If they want to, I have to pay them periodically (each update) or be legally required to stop using it. This type of EULA behavior is one of the main reasons I switched from the PC to a Mac (that and OS X :-), and I refused to use MSM after they included this wording in it.

Would you buy the next version of OS X if it said "from now on, you HAVE to purchase each new upgrade we offer, or stop using the old versions you already paid for"?

John Whitney

[Krrill]

:eek: There is A LOT of difference. It's not just that MS has apps that come bundled with windows, it's that they have lines in the windows code to take on its competitors, that is, to prevent apps from competitors from working the way they should. This is part of the reason why the EU had them "punished"

Besides, Apple just gives you more choices, and better choices. Proof of that is that both IE and Safari come with OSX.

Another difference is that Apple uses industry standards.
MS loves to put their "twist" into everything and then once everyone has it they change it, they charge for it, and they control what happens.
Again IE is a nice example. They stopped developing for any OS other than windows... what about the losers who developed their websites to work with IE and don't have windows? That would suck

Besides, Apple doesn't include inferior apps with OSX. That can't be said about MS

LOL no offence, but Office isn't an inferior app... Why do so many mac people want to use it? And as for the reason why IE stopped development for mac, is cause Apple created Safari.

And as for the reason IE still comes bundled, is because they still have a contract with Microsoft... I'm sort of lost as to what websites only work with IE? Haven't been to one yet *Shrugs*

The point to my whole thing was not to pull down Apple, but to make people realize that Apple is going towards a different trend/market. Apple has changed, and it's not what it used to be. Apple computers are for the yuppie market, and not all of us are Yuppies.

BTW told you so! LOL got flamed!

[swissmann]

I know a lot of kids who use MSN because they have a Hotmail account and just kind of got drawn in that direction. I would like to see iChat work with MSN then the kids who are smart enough in that group would use iChat and not leave their chatting buddies behind.

[TorbX]

I would like to see iChat work with MSN then the kids who are smart enough in that group would use iChat and not leave their chatting buddies behind.

Umh.. What? Smart? :confused:

[uv23]

This is good news. Apple zealotry aside, messenger is a great chat client. I have used it since its initial offering, for communication between PC and Mac clients in large development shops. It'll be nice to see improvements to the Mac end finally.

[vollspacken]

I actually use fire which has MSN, Yahoo,*AIM, ICQ built in.

so do I, and I actually still have an ICQ-account that I use through fire (because all of my friends use ICQ)

wasn't ICQ bought out by AOL??? if so, why wasn't it merged with AIM???

:confused:

vSpacken

[j_maddison]

this is starting to irritate. i use aim NOT msn and am in the uk. the same goes for most people i know. in fact only two people spring to mind that dont use aim.

in fact, i dont even mind aims quite unattractive interface, i like that it keeps the whole thing simple, hardly any smilies (and they all suck except bondage, slut and precious (:-x :-* and O:-) ) :p )

the fancier the im app, the less the process of chatting relies on actual conversation.

just my humble opinion.

Well I have to say i think your in a minority in the UK. I've been using chat programes for years and i've only ever known about three people in the uk who use aim. Most of the people i know use yahoo and msn. It was the same in university and in work.

What I'd really like to see is for all chat programes to have to option to interact with one another, but thats never going to happen. there might be alliances but i cant see one common standard for all chat programmes.

im just gutted there is no cam and voice on msn mess 4.0. i've tried using ichat and it just doesnt work with aim users for me (refering to cam functionality). I have a few freinds in the states and i really want to use voice with them, but its not an option at the moment.

jay

[Docrjm]

Well I have to say i think your in a minority in the UK. I've been using chat programes for years and i've only ever known about three people in the uk who use aim. Most of the people i know use yahoo and msn. It was the same in university and in work.

What I'd really like to see is for all chat programes to have to option to interact with one another, but thats never going to happen. there might be alliances but i cant see one common standard for all chat programmes.

im just gutted there is no cam and voice on msn mess 4.0. i've tried using ichat and it just doesnt work with aim users for me (refering to cam functionality). I have a few freinds in the states and i really want to use voice with them, but its not an option at the moment.

jay
Actually the video works between AIM 5.5 and iChat. I live in Canada and have friends and family in the UK. No problem with video chat

[sockdoggy]

BTW told you so! LOL got flamed!

One person comments on some of your opinions and you constitute that as being flamed? Don't post on the internet if you do not want a reply.

I agree the UI looks weak. Just give me the side picture thing and I'll be happy.

[ldkaplan]

That's kind of a lame statement. Like it or hate it, most of the world uses MS Office and I'm very grateful to be able to use those apps on my mac instead of having to boot up my old PC. In fact, I wish they would come out with MS Project and Visio for Mac and I would never need to be on a windows machine again. What are you going to run as an alternative, Appleworks (junk) or Star Office (does anyone use that outside of the Linux/Solaris world?)

Being a purist only puts Apple in a bad market spot. If you don't want to run them, you have a choice...don't install.

And as far as applications crashing, the one that dies the most on my computer is Safari. I haven't had any problems with Word and wouldn't know about IE (why use it when there are plenty of other/better browsers out there). No better between my iMac running 10.2 and my 1.8 ghz g5 running 10.3. Of course, it doesn't freeze, it just craps out kills the process. I still use it because I'm to lazy to install Mozilla, NS or Opera.


In my opinion Microsoft making further versions of apps for osx sucks. I would rather not have any microsoft apps on my mac because that just allows them to make a profit off of us :( I really like how Apple has introduced apps like iChat, Safari, and iTunes to compete with microsofts dominant apps. I mean last time I checked the only applications that ever froze on me on my mac were Word and Internet Explorer.

[bar italia]

I'm sort of lost as to what websites only work with IE? Haven't been to one yet *Shrugs*


Are you kidding? :rolleyes:

[lordmac]

For all those out who keep saying apple should make iChat compatible with msn messinger.
Well wont and the reason is because they want to be on the good side of aol, since they and recently have made some really good deals for apple in itune department( I dont know if any of you noticed but in iTunes you can just use your aol screen name too buy music with and the charge just gos to ur aol bill. Also the aim 5.5 thing was designed partly by aol too be compatible with ichat.
Perhaps this would be different if apple had chosen msn messinger insted of aim when they first made ichat but im guessing they chase aim because regaurdless of its lacke of use in countries other than the usa its still the most widly used messinging service. So really its juts about politics.
As for why aim advertises how else are they gonna make money on it it is free. im betting msn dosn't have it as much cus they caan affaord to to offer a completly free product if in the end it will make there product dominate so then they can start doing things to bring in money

well just my opinion and sorry for and bad spelling, grammer, etc
i really suck at catching that stuff :)

[TorbX]

[...]regaurdless of its lacke of use in countries other than the usa its still the most widly used messinging service.

Hellooo... When only US of A uses it, its not the most widly used messaging service. Maybe *more people* is using it, I do not know that, but it is not at all widely spread.

USA is *not* the worlds navel.

[rickvanr]

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there. I've been trying to get some of my friends to switch to AIM so I can use iChat, but it's not easy.

I sure hope MS delivers a kick-ass product... it's embarrasing showing off a Mac with such a pathetic version of MSN (by today's standards).

its true, for the longest time i only used ICQ, but then there was all these kids a few years younger then me that were going to MSN, and i went from having around 4 MSN at the beginning of grade 12, to 70+ at the end, its crazy. ohwell, i use proteus, so i could care less what ppl use

[aethier]

regaurdless of its lacke of use in countries other than the usa its still the most widly used messinging service. So really its juts about politics.


mhmm,because the US makes up the whole worlds population...
AIM sucks balls, AOL to quote people i know "is for morons" ICQ is what i started with back in the day, i really liked it, everyone used it, then like 5 years ago in grade 7, everyone just started switching to MSN, now i was faithful to ICQ, i liked the interface and all, didn't like how MSN conversations actually "stayed" once you sent it, didn't just go away, like in ICQ. but as my contact list died, i to switched to MSN, I wanted to talk to friends.

Apple, as much as i love Apple... You seem to only care about the US, everything gets US priority, all services work mostly only in the US, or take for ever to go global, i can't even order iphoto prints in canada, and it has been out for 2 or 3 years. and ichat is AIM only, who out of the US even cares about it. so apple decides that only americans get to use ichat?, aside from mac users, but who out of you have all your friends as mac users? in my school, aside from me there are only two other mac users...

aethier

[iLilana]

until they support the im equally across platform then its really useless.

[lordmac]

Hellooo... When only US of A uses it, its not the most widly used messaging service. Maybe *more people* is using it, I do not know that, but it is not at all widely spread.

USA is *not* the worlds navel.



Sorry when I said most widly used i ment in terms of the number active users. Sorry About the confustion

[Nermal]

Come on MS, you can do better than this. Hopefully it won't disconnect all the time like 3.5.1 does.

I've tried iChat with another Mac user, and it was OK. I'd love to use it more, but nobody uses AIM. Apple should put MSN support into iChat.

[ssnmx]

LOL no offence, but Office isn't an inferior app... Why do so many mac people want to use it? And as for the reason why IE stopped development for mac, is cause Apple created Safari.

And as for the reason IE still comes bundled, is because they still have a contract with Microsoft... I'm sort of lost as to what websites only work with IE? Haven't been to one yet *Shrugs*

The point to my whole thing was not to pull down Apple, but to make people realize that Apple is going towards a different trend/market. Apple has changed, and it's not what it used to be. Apple computers are for the yuppie market, and not all of us are Yuppies.

BTW told you so! LOL got flamed!

Maybe I didn't explain well what I was trying to say:
Inferior apps: Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, Movie Maker, and MSN Messenger for Mac.

I don't think Office is an inferior app. It's a suite of apps to start with, but I like 'em. I have them in my computer and use it all the time. But we're talking about MSN messenger here! And although it is really cool in the PC side, in the Mac side they're far behind.

Apple created Safari because MS announced it would stop developing IE for other platforms. And if you haven't found any website that only works with IE, then you're really lucky.

I'm not a yuppie myself and I don't see how having iLife makes Macs yuppier than before. It's true that I, at least, for the most part only use iTunes and GarageBand every once in a while to kill time as I don't own a camera to make videos (and I seem to be the only one)... but having apps just there doesn't hurt, and it's the perfect excuse to get some cool toys :D

Besides, if none of this software came bundled with our Macs, we would all complain of the lack of apps and it would get chaotic, especially if PCs have something and we don't!

[2112]

I can't actually believe the pictures I'm seeing. It's the exact same crap as 3.5.1, no handwriting support, no camera, no audio chat ... this B$.

[Chealion]

I don't see why people rate this negative; even if you don't like the MSN solution or protocol, surely it's useful to have an up-to-date implementation? And if it becomes the dominant chat app, then isn't it essential to have one?

Why not rate it negative? It's bad news. MSN 4.0 is a let down. And it certainly doesn't give anyone hope of Microsoft releasing something that works.

Now if Entourage could finally import a .pst it might be worthwhile.

The current Messenger is a passable beta client by today's standards. It just plain sucks as of yet. Then again, they will never make all of us happy, but when most of us are unhappy with the product but use it because we need to, will they change?

[j_maddison]

Actually the video works between AIM 5.5 and iChat. I live in Canada and have friends and family in the UK. No problem with video chat

Yes i know the video is working for some people, but its not working for me
I've posted a question about my problem on apples discussion forum.

jay

[papersushi]

MSN Messenger is way more popular outside of USA. Chances are your buddy oversea doesn't use AIM or iChat. MSN Messenger Windows version I have to say is very good, especially personal large picture icon, custom emotion, Audio, video chat.

But none of these features are available on MSN messenger Mac edition. You may argue iChat AV supporst full screen video chat MSN doesn't. But seriously, how many people you gonna find use Mac+iSight+iChatAV? How many of us bought an iSight then end up only using it a couple of times because the lack of people you can talk to?

I like iChat but I really love to see a major uograde for MSN messenger Mac edition.

[Linc]

:eek: There is A LOT of difference. It's not just that MS has apps that come bundled with windows, it's that they have lines in the windows code to take on its competitors, that is, to prevent apps from competitors from working the way they should. This is part of the reason why the EU had them "punished"


As opposed to say, how the webcore frameworks are tied in to Panther, which is also preventing Jag users getting the latest version? Or how Quicktime is so tied in to the OS as well? You think Mac OS X could be sold minus QT and Safari and still work, if the EU decided the same for Apple as it has for MS? Just food for though.. and no I'm not a MS fanboy, I have a PB, and an iPod, and develop on and for Mac.. it just frustrates me when other users go off about how evil Microsoft are, without really thinking everything through.

[ITR 81]

Who even uses MSN anymore??
I've only met 1 person that actually used it.

I started out on ICQ ..well until it got bought out by AOL...then I started using AIM and then iChat AV when I got my first PB over a yr ago.

[Krrill]

Not going to get into a big conversation, we could have a lot of fun, but the topic is different.

[NarKEd]

THIS IS A VERY VERY IMPORTANTE MESSAGE:

1)go to http://r-james.myby.co.uk/mac/msnmessenger/
2) click on the "Click here to contact MSN!" link
3) tell those suckers tu include the audio/webcam/pictures features in our mac version.

Its only 1 minute of your time and its worth it

[JFreak]

go to www.apple.com/feedback and tell them we want ichat to be compatible with msn/icq/yahoo for at least the basic features if not the a/v chat.

i did my part, now it's your turn. apple is listening to us if we just said something...

[rlreif]

first off, I am american (have a lot of friends in Canada and elsewhere) and I do not know one person who uses aol...

second, even though I love everything mac, I am about to buy a peecee because I am sick of having no web cam functionality... it is important. Apple could be doing more by lobbying M$ or by making Ichat work with MSN... after itunes, chat is the most important program to me, and I know I am not alone.

Ichat is a joke. I know we all would like apple to rule the chat mkt as well, but they don't... and they never will.

AOL is going down... I just dont see huge revenue growth in dial up internet...

the whole world uses MSN, and we are being let down with this.

[mac_bandit]

Okay... Let's get this straight: People use the Instant Messenger their friends use. It's no use using (for example) AIM, if 99% of your friends and family use MSN.
Unfortunately, MSN is the most dominant Instant Messenger in Australia (especially with young people). This is the case because Windows is now (and has been for some time) bundled with MSN/Windows Messenger, and for convenience, users simply choose to use it (along with Windows Media Player, too).
Being in a high-school environment in which students require laptops, I was the first to bring in (and show the IT Department it was possible to use) an iBook. Since then, I have converted a dozen or so people to switch to a Mac. iChat, quite simply, is awesome for LAN environments, because of Rendezvous. The AV features I find superb, also.
However, because my school uses an HTTPS proxy server, I am unable to log into the MSN servers, while Windows users with MSN are able to do so. Why is this so? Because MSN for Mac (including 4) does not include the ability to use an HTTPS proxy.
I do not believe MSN 4.0 deserves a .0 release, simpy because it's 'new' features do not justify one.
I resent having to make excuses to Windows users when they ask me why they can't have a video (or even voice) chat with me, or play an MSN game with me, or look at their user-picture, and so on.
The differences between MSN 4.0 for Mac and MSN 6.1 for Windows are immense. Even third-party products for Mac can't match the feature set of the Windows version.
I am annoyed... to say the least. And converting 130+ people to use another protocol is simply impossible.

The state of Instant Messaging on the Internet is appaling. We need a proper, open protocol, that people are actually compelled to use.

[Skypat]

I support what mac bandit says.

Here in Europe, most of my friends use MSN Messenger. I don't think they have a bad interface. AIM on Windows is ugly ...

Apple should make iChat compatible with MSN and Yahoo Messenger. On the other side, MS will certainely make further improvement to MSN 4. They need to add video and audio support. The development of the version 4 is at its early stage isn't it ? :rolleyes:

[TorbX]

As opposed to say, how the webcore frameworks are tied in to Panther, which is also preventing Jag users getting the latest version? Or how Quicktime is so tied in to the OS as well? You think Mac OS X could be sold minus QT and Safari and still work, if the EU decided the same for Apple as it has for MS? Just food for though.. and no I'm not a MS fanboy, I have a PB, and an iPod, and develop on and for Mac.. it just frustrates me when other users go off about how evil Microsoft are, without really thinking everything through.

Well, there is a difference. Remeber, MS is a generic operating system on a generic machine (with its generic proc, ram, mainboard, etc).

Apple, on the other hand, is a little more uptight. Its like, "this is ours, this is what we do with it, and this is how we want things to be. Don't like it? Bugger off."

I don't think MS is in the position to do that, but Apple sure is. :rolleyes:

[gekko513]

Thats so true. When I lived in the states everyone used aim. Up here everyone uses msn. Yesterday I told my cousin I use aim and she just looked at me with a blank stare. So now I use iChat for my American friends and msn and yahoo for my Canadian friends.

I don't understand is it because it has America in it's title or what, why can't they use aim?
I'm in Europe and I would not feel comfortable using products with America in it's title (AIM, American Express, ...). It doesn't really make me feel like I'm a target customer. Canada is in America by definition, but somehow I have the feeling that the USA somehow have taken over the words America and American. Am i wrong?

[TorbX]

Thats so true. When I lived in the states everyone used aim. Up here everyone uses msn. Yesterday I told my cousin I use aim and she just looked at me with a blank stare. So now I use iChat for my American friends and msn and yahoo for my Canadian friends.

I don't understand is it because it has America in it's title or what, why can't they use aim?

After years and years of "americanisation" it think the world is turning its back on you, for a number of reasons.

[Mav451]

I think one person said that no one uses AIM in UK. Well thankfully, if anyone has checked, that means that the AIM version at AOL.uk is the outdated one--the one WITHOUT SPYWARE!

When anyone gets tired of using the new AIM 5.5 (on the PC side anyway) that is loaded with ads and spyware, they turn back to AIM 5.1, which still retains the majority of new features.

MSN - I'll admit, its pretty sad that video chat/profile pic/etc. is not included, because that has been around FOREVER on the PC side. In fact, when many of my friends in college did foreign exchange programs in Taiwan and China, they found that nearly everyone used MSN! And this is the same way i first found out about the video chat. ("MSN can do that?!"). I had the impression of having to use some 3rd-party web-cam SW to do that (which is scary).

For logging purposes, i use one of the older versions of Dead AIM (log sign ons, log conversations, remove ads, etc). Apparently even the Dead AIM guy turned out to be an ass just like AOL and started charging for Dead AIM. Again, the reason i use the older software.

Someone also referred to ICQ. Yeah, it was fun for a while. But who wants to wait between sending messages? IM was actually instant, whereas ICQ could sometimes take forever--especially in the 56k days. When AIM stopped working, you knew you lost your Erols/Mindspring/what have you ISP connection. With ICQ though, maybe it was just taking a while to send that msg. Well I tossed ICQ. No more "uh oh".

[Diatribe]

go to www.apple.com/feedback and tell them we want ichat to be compatible with msn/icq/yahoo for at least the basic features if not the a/v chat.

i did my part, now it's your turn. apple is listening to us if we just said something...

I just wrote them to implement MSN support. For me it's pretty much 50/50. Half of my friends use AIM/ICQ/AOL/iChat and the other half uses MSN. But I'm sick and tired of having to use two clients. And no I don't want to use Fire, etc. I like iChat. If we could just get more people to write Apple and ask for MSN protocoll implementation... even if we don't get it, it is still worth a try.
And again... I hate M$ for not being able to include proper proxy support, besides all the other features that this "upgrade" is lacking...

Edit: ICQ IS supported... you just need to put in the ICQ # instead of the name.

[TorbX]

I just wrote them to implement MSN support. [....] If we could just get more people to write Apple and ask for MSN protocoll implementation... even if we don't get it, it is still worth a try.

So did I.

Howcome MACs are not in the lead of the coolest apps these days? iChat sucks (it does! I'm in Norway, none of my PC-only friends are one "AiM"), and www.skype.com just won't do a Mac-version of their GREAT product.

[lilscoy]

*sigh* I was hoping, when I read this, that there would be a message about interoperablitility with iChat/AIM. I understand that it's about domination in the marketplace, whether the application is free or not. But I wish it could just be as simple as internet browsers. There a few out there, but you can use any of them you want, and everyone can still go to pretty much every website out there no matter which browser they choose. I just wish the war between all chat clients was just about features and not like, "well this one is more compatible." Just like people were saying about the UK, I have a lot of relatives in Mexico, and everybody uses MSN. It's almost like they haven't even heard of AIM. And sometimes I don't mind having to run two chat programs in my computer, but I'm using iChat a lot with my family who are scatterted in the US, because we really get into using the video chat with iChat. That's such an amazing feature and I just wish I could use it with everyone. Anyway...

[j_maddison]

THIS IS A VERY VERY IMPORTANTE MESSAGE:

1)go to http://r-james.myby.co.uk/mac/msnmessenger/
2) click on the "Click here to contact MSN!" link
3) tell those suckers tu include the audio/webcam/pictures features in our mac version.

Its only 1 minute of your time and its worth it

Even if you dont use msn, american mac users do us european cousins a favour and fill in the form and help us out!

thanks
jay

[velkr0]

The state of Instant Messaging on the Internet is appaling. We need a proper, open protocol, that people are actually compelled to use.


Well we have Jabber... but I don't see M$N Messenger fading away, unless they start charging for it or something like that. If all the IM players can't get along they should all include jabber support (only for basic text IMing) along side their proprietary protocols (which would include all the audio and voice stuff).

Either way MSN 4.0 looks like it still going to be junk!!! I want is audio chat, games, pictures and SPELL CHEQUEING!!!

[jdang]

i dont know why you guys even bother with msn. just use adium (www.adiumx.com). it is total hottness. unless you need audio/video (which will be coming eventually) adium is definitely the way to go!

[TorbX]

i dont know why you guys even bother with msn. just use adium (www.adiumx.com). it is total hottness. unless you need audio/video (which will be coming eventually) adium is definitely the way to go!

Adium was boring. Not cool to show this off to my friends (when showing off dockm, minimize-effect and such).

MSN Messenger:Mac needs to get up to date - NOW...! :mad:

[nmk]

Believe it or not, MSN has almost a complete monopoly in the chat client market outside of the USA. Infact, MSN has become synonymous with chat in most parts of the world. You don't say chat client anymore. You just say, "whats your MSN". So it is really important to a lot of users that these guys have a decent client for the Mac.

I'm surprised that MSN for Mac is so lacking considering the rest of the Office Suite is superb. Oh well, guess i'll have to continue forcing people who I want to chat with to download iVisit.

[ZildjianKX]

I'm surprised that MSN for Mac is so lacking considering the rest of the Office Suite is superb. Oh well, guess i'll have to continue forcing people who I want to chat with to download iVisit.

I don't know... Office X in its current form is VERY weak compared to its PC conterpart...

[johnnyjibbs]

I don't know... Office X in its current form is VERY weak compared to its PC conterpart...
I haven't used Office 2003 for Windows, but I've found that Office v.X for Mac is exactly the same as Office XP, except it has a couple of extra features, such as the formatting palette and transparency options (and a nice QuickTime dissolve transition for PowerPoint, even if Keynote does them all a lot better).

I would hardly call Office for Mac weak, unless you're giving a general statement of the Microsoft product.

[ssnmx]

Believe it or not, MSN has almost a complete monopoly in the chat client market outside of the USA. Infact, MSN has become synonymous with chat in most parts of the world. You don't say chat client anymore. You just say, "whats your MSN".

LOL, So true! :D

C'mon Apple, you're seeing how MS sucks at updating their products for the Mac!!!! Give us iChat that works with MSN. :mad:

Stupid MS... they just want us to buy a PC because updates for the Mac suck! :mad:

Oh well... no webcam usage for me... :rolleyes:

[oldschool]

It's unfortunate, but MSN is huge among Canadian youth. Most of them think it's the _only_ chat out there. I've been trying to get some of my friends to switch to AIM so I can use iChat, but it's not easy.

I sure hope MS delivers a kick-ass product... it's embarrasing showing off a Mac with such a pathetic version of MSN (by today's standards).

I know it sucks. People even complain when i suggest they switch to AIM...."msn is way better" they scream and yell.

[sphereboy]

i use Proteus.. it's really nice and has lots of little features.

[JFreak]

I would hardly call Office for Mac weak, unless you're giving a general statement of the Microsoft product.

well, it IS weak in supporting all the macro virii out there :D :D :D

however, the latest v.x version (1.5 update) did make it faster and stable. they did something right. might have been an accident...

[Diatribe]

Does anyone who has already seen 4.0 know if they included https support? Because I have yet to find one that does, even Adium only has http.

[mac_bandit]

Does anyone who has already seen 4.0 know if they included https support? Because I have yet to find one that does, even Adium only has http.

I can guranatee you that 4.0 (beta) does not include HTTPS support :mad:.
I doubt that the beta will be any different from the final release.
The Windows version (of course) supports HTTPS, however...

[JFreak]

apple hopefully adds msn support into ichat, because the ms messenger development seems to be as nonexistent as internet explorer's was before it was discontinued.

maybe 4.0 is the last messenger ms releases for mac? one can only hope...

[TorbX]

I know it sucks. People even complain when i suggest they switch to AIM...."msn is way better" they scream and yell.

Well, it is! AIM is a bad product, it does not look good on anyones desktop, GUI is useless, once you've installed it, it seems to be LOADED with spyware. And its adware. Ugha... I stay clear of it, just as I stay clear of RealMediaPlayer One-thingy. Thats spyware for you there...!!

[Opteron]

AIM is totally American and I know nobody in the old world who actually uses that.
Haven't heard that term in a long time;)

All I can say is it's about time.

[djdarlek]

just as I stay clear of RealMediaPlayer One-thingy. Thats spyware for you there...!!

a bit off topic i know.. but RealMediaPlayer One-thingy for mac is actually pretty good! the free version has little/no advertising (it must be small, i've never noticed) and seems to play stupid real media files fine! the free version even has a ful screen option! take that Quicktime!

dave :eek:

[From Win to Mac]

just use aMSN, that's it.

[timmyOtool]

I doubt that MSN support for ichat ever really happens. Sure, it might be a feature added, but M$ will make enough changes to the windows versions to keep it from ever working right. People will get sick of it and probable blame ichat for the craptastic nature of this relationship between the two softwares and switch back to MSN :(

[----Bowie----]

I also live in Canada and ALL the people here use MSN. :( I would be happy if I could talk to them on ichat.

[blue&whiteman]

it was ugly and still is ugly. bad program. I use amsn.

[oldskool]

I just installed the 21-day trial version tonight, and other than having to turn on some ports and forward some IP addresses through my router and Airport, it works pretty well. I was vid confing with my grampa on his WinXP machine within an hour. My main beef is you have to push-to-talk on the audio. But the vid's not bad (~5 fps). Not iChat though...

I may even spring for a full user licence ($39 or so).

[SmpDigital]

I Live in Mexico, and I've never met a single person using AIM, here AOL is not worth to even try out, they offer dial-up connections only and poor services. Sadly, my PC is the only computer where I can chat with the bells and whistles I'm used to, like video, voice, file transfers, profiles, chat rooms, etc.., my buddy list in trillian has about 150 contacts, even a few from the US, about 70% are MSN, and 30% Yahoo, and 4 ICQ dead accounts.
I just can't believe that Apple Stores are selling here iSights, realising that their only function is to take silly pictures of yourself in front of your computer, so IMHO the iChat/iSight solution is SO useless outside the US, so is this MSN Messenger update, as Mac User are confined to text-only chat and poor UI.

[ssnmx]

I just can't believe that Apple Stores are selling here iSights, realising that their only function is to take silly pictures of yourself in front of your computer, so IMHO the iChat/iSight solution is SO useless outside the US, so is this MSN Messenger update, as Mac User are confined to text-only chat and poor UI.

Where do you buy Macs in Mexico? How are the prices?
(Im from Monterrey, currently living in Austin)

[Kit Fist0]

I also live in Canada and ALL the people here use MSN. :( I would be happy if I could talk to them on ichat.


I hear you :( I use MSN for my buddies in Canada and my buddies in the US I use iChat. For camwhoring I use Yahoo IM which crashes all the time. Most of my friends in the states don't even use the AIM client. They use Trillian. I tried Proteus but it doesn't do AIM chats very well at all. MSN needs to be upgraded, so I don't get asked why they can't audio chat and etc. :mad:

Mac bandit said that he doesn't understand why MS doesn't upgrade their client. It makes perfect sense. Why would they ? It makes no sense to do it properly. They need to keep their teenie bopper windows clientel happy with lots of emicons and games. Most parents don't use the home computers, it is their kids. If their kids are happy with MSN and Windows why would suburban mom and dad spring for a 'downtown' mac ? I don't think it is right, but what do you expect ? I wouldn't be surprised to see a version 4.1 that has advertisements for the windows client 6.1 showing you want you aren't getting.

[TorbX]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a version 4.1 that has advertisements for the windows client 6.1 showing you want you aren't getting.

LOL :p

[dschneiderch]

On my PC I use Trillian. Is there anything like that on the Mac side ?


adium was just newly redone- it rocks. although still only v0.51 and a little unstable its already surpassed proteus and fire

btw, outside the u.s everyone uses msn- both in s. america and europe- so i have to adapt :(

[Impulse29]

K, I'm not sure how they expect to release it in June, as it can already be obtained (not from the msn site though).

From what I can say, the logo is different (not aqua anymore, but rather a bit darker, and like colored brushed steel). The MSN itself looks exact same, and there are no visual changes. There are 59 emoticons (and the ... one). You can now also do a search for a contact (which is pretty pointless).

IMO, Microsoft should've made picture ability (which is already available in aMSN), and webcam, games, and whiteboard. Apple always brings fully functional software to pc (the ones it does... quicktime, and iTunes), so why is microsoft being gay, and only releasing some features at a time? Other programmers have already shown that it is possible


I DO NOT HAVE A COPY OF MSN MESSENGER 4.0, I JUST HAVE INSIDE SOURCES. for more info, PM me.

[TorbX]

so why is microsoft being gay, and only releasing some features at a time?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that..."
(The Seinfeld show)

Get ready for being flamed! LOLs :D

[PickledSquirrel]

I just discovered amsn, a clone for mac that'll do pictures and all, and apparently doesn't suffer from as many bugs as msn does. for instance, amsn stays connected in my case... Very nice app for all of ud europeans who haven't caught up with aim yet, and whose friends all use msn. :)

[iZac]

i hate msn messenger, but i'm forced to use it because of its popularity among my circle of friends. Its only saving grace is its (almost good) conversation archive system (still takes far too bloody long to load though)

Ive tired many different 3rd party products, like AMSN, proteus, fire and the like but i don't like any of them for their functionality, or appearance. If any of you really recommend a 3rd party app, then ill gladly give it a bit more scrutiny though!

I would JUMP at the chance if someone developed a haxie for iChat that allowed even simple msn support, because (like all apple apps) iChat is an elegant little program to use.

[iZac]

i am VERY disappointed with messenger 4 myself, i downloaded it off of poisoned the other week, and its barely developed at all! big whoop... new emoticons and fading alert boxes... thats the only major difference i can see. If Microsoft REALLY cared about its mac community (as it must with various incarnations of office) it would try and lure us away, to its evil XP operating system? (just like apple is doing with the iPod and iTunes all windows compatible.

[Caddie Rider]

Hi, i don't know if you've already spoke, but on msn 4.0 are there an avatare ??


THX

PS : Sorry for my bad english... :rolleyes: but i speak french and deutsch :D

[Colonel Panik]

I'm waiting for Apple to introduce iChat for PC. Now, if they did it right, so that it supports all the other protocols, and if they really advertised iSight, I think they'd be onto a winner.

Everyone knows that Apple = Quality.

With the iPod and iTMS, they could really step into the market and convert everyone to iChat. Although there are PC users out there who video chat, they're all PC savvy, whereas my granny can figure out how to use iChat and iSight (when she finds her glasses). They'd probably have to open up dotMAC to everyone, but again, when Apple do something after everyone else, they usually do it properly.

Think about it Apple. Make an iChat for Windows and take over the market. Only Apple can do that. They already use QuickTime components on some phones, and if they could do it right with iChat, it would be THE business.

I'm trying to get folks I work for (abroad) to invest in an iSight so that we can have proper conversations.

[JFreak]

Everyone knows that Apple = Quality.

no.

in the pc wonderland everyone knows nothing about apple. if they know something about apple, it's the same old whine "it's not windows compatible. it's expensive. it's not for me"

that attitude has to change, and that's the big challenge for apple to do that.

[Kit Fist0]

"it's not windows compatible. it's expensive. it's not for me"


799$ is too much for an all in one ? People are misinformed that is the main problem. Apple needs better advertisement. They need to expand on the iPod and iTMS advertisements.

[kalisse]

hello i'm french and my english is not so good but i have dowload msn 4.O at this adress
http://www.macworld.com.cn/download/list.asp?id=354
msn 4.0 dont have e possibility to visioconference and audio
so ,why waiting many months for nothing

[Anarchy99]

downloaded msn 4.0 at http://suprnova.org/ it doesnt have tomany new things but i would check it out because it could be better that i thought

[windowsblowsass]

so do I, and I actually still have an ICQ-account that I use through fire (because all of my friends use ICQ)

wasn't ICQ bought out by AOL??? if so, why wasn't it merged with AIM???

:confused:

vSpacken
because they just wanted to kill icq not use it with aim you know they bought netscape to but the only ting using that is their ultra cheap service

[dragula53]

'nuff said.

it is the best chat app out there.

skinnable, supports all chat services. and it's free. and bug free, as far as I can tell

adium.sourceforge.net

I still use ichat and yahoo for A/V

but the other 98.5% of the time, adium it is.

don't forget to download some skins.

open source good.

[TorbX]

'nuff said.

it is the best chat app out there.

skinnable, supports all chat services. and it's free. and bug free, as far as I can tell

adium.sourceforge.net

I still use ichat and yahoo for A/V

but the other 98.5% of the time, adium it is.

don't forget to download some skins.

open source good.

Can't find any themes for it... :(

[milzay]

I downloaded amsn and its definitely worth the download. IMO its the best MSN client by far. I just wanted to know how do you use new skins, and how do you create new skins. I think i can make quite a good skin (brushed metal look) i just need to know some stuff. Thanks
milzay