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MacBytes
Feb 28, 2009, 04:55 PM
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Category: Apple Software
Link: Safari 4 Beta: UI Disaster (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20090228175554)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

VSMacOne
Feb 28, 2009, 05:01 PM
I'm not a fanboi or anything, but I LOVE the new look. The tab style is very practical as far as I'm concerned and I love the way it looks and feels. In fact, I like it BETTER than Chrome.
Yes there are glitches as with any beta release, but overall i'm sticking with Safari 4 as my primary browser.

Schtumple
Feb 28, 2009, 05:02 PM
I'll admit, I don't like the new tab title bar combo, using a mouse, it's fine, but when using a trackpad, I find it a bit too difficult to select a tab, it's too easy for Safari to think I'm trying to drag the entire window around.

Kilamite
Feb 28, 2009, 05:02 PM
Agreed - no reason for them to be in the title bar. Looks fine where it is - makes sense and you can easily see at a glance what tabs are what and how many are open.

Rather than having to focus on the title bar and then checking.

I'll admit, I don't like the new tab title bar combo, using a mouse, it's fine, but when using a trackpad, I find it a bit too difficult to select a tab, it's too easy for Safari to think I'm trying to drag the entire window around.

Use CMD+SHIFT+[ or ] to switch between tabs, much more efficient and easier when you get second nature to that command.

Shoesy
Feb 28, 2009, 05:10 PM
Woah he really didn't like those new tabs did he.

Concorde Rules
Feb 28, 2009, 05:12 PM
I personally love it.

Title bar is otherwise wasted space.

10/10 from me for Safari 4!

TheSpecialist08
Feb 28, 2009, 05:12 PM
This article is a joke. Just because the tabs are moved Safari is considered a UI disaster? Give me a break! The guy can't even spell or punctuate correctly in half of his "article." More like a piece of garbage.

Chaszmyr
Feb 28, 2009, 05:16 PM
The only real problem I have with the new tab bar is that I sometimes forget I have multiple tabs open and I'm always looking to where the tab bar used to be. I don't love the look of it, but it makes the whole application's UI take up less space and that's a good thing.

I'm more concerned with the way Safari 4 renders things. It makes the browser feel sluggish, even on my 8-core Mac Pro.

Stridder44
Feb 28, 2009, 05:18 PM
This article is the reason I stopped caring about MacBytes.

Yeah, a few people have their panties in a twist over the new UI. I can't count the number of times I've seen it happen.

Apple does something new, some fanboys hate it. Then they eventually like it, and eventually we all love/accept it (a handful hold on to their grudges though). Then Apple does something new again, and the cycle repeats.

iSimx
Feb 28, 2009, 05:19 PM
Of course some won't like it. Because people don't like reluctant to change once they are used to something. But without change, there's no progress. Personally I see it as logical putting the tabs up there. I don't mind either way.

LxMx
Feb 28, 2009, 05:26 PM
I personally love the new look.

I've been waiting for Chrome to come out but seeing as Safari's UI is basically a rip off of Chrome's, I'll be sticking with it.

Who said Apple doesn't copy? They do it well when they do though, which is fine by me...

chelsel
Feb 28, 2009, 05:28 PM
It probably went down like this, at Apple:

- Hire a "user experience" expert
- "Expert" can't come up with anything new, so copies some ideas from Google Chrome and Opera
- Developers resist but management insists on listening to the expert.
- Safari 4 beta is released and gets terrible reviews.
- User experience expert moves on to destroy another product somewhere else

:-)

Schtumple
Feb 28, 2009, 05:30 PM
Use CMD+SHIFT+[ or ] to switch between tabs, much more efficient and easier when you get second nature to that command.

Sweet, cheers for that, I'm sure I'll eventually get used to doing that.

Shadow
Feb 28, 2009, 05:31 PM
It probably went down like this, at Apple:

- Hire a "user experience" expert
- "Expert" can't come up with anything new, so copies some ideas from Google Chrome and Opera
- Developers resist but management insists on listening to the expert.
- Safari 4 beta is released and gets terrible reviews.
- User experience expert moves on to destroy another product somewhere else

:-)

In all reality, it's likely that Apple didn't copy from Chrome due to the amount of time released between them; they changed how the title bar functions on 3 operating systems and that takes a lot of time.

rdowns
Feb 28, 2009, 05:34 PM
Sweet, cheers for that, I'm sure I'll eventually get used to doing that.

I prefer Control-Tab.

Auzburner
Feb 28, 2009, 05:35 PM
I'm enjoying my Safari 4 experience throughly, this guy is a joke!

displaced
Feb 28, 2009, 05:55 PM
I'm getting used to tabs up-top. No problems selecting, dragging or closing tabs.

But it does break one behaviour I'm used to: I never minimise windows using the - yellow button at the top left. I always double-click the title bar no matter what the application. Whilst Safari 4 does indeed minimise a window when double-clicking the title bar/tab area, it also unfortunately makes whatever tab I double-click the active tab.

So, unless I double-click the same tab that I have active, I get an inadvertent tab-switch when trying to minimise the window via a title-bar double-click.

ryan.hayes79
Feb 28, 2009, 05:55 PM
Well I have to admit that I am not a huge fan of the tabs on the top, looks "messy" somehow. Also really missed the blue bar so have changed those back via terminal.

I think the easy option would be to allow them to be changeable via prefs in Safari. This would please all!

mcnicks
Feb 28, 2009, 06:16 PM
I don't have a copy of Safari 4 Beta kicking around just now, but I thought that there was a preference that allowed you to change back to the old look / behaviour?

Saladinos
Feb 28, 2009, 06:22 PM
It probably went down like this, at Apple:

- Hire a "user experience" expert
- "Expert" can't come up with anything new, so copies some ideas from Google Chrome and Opera
- Developers resist but management insists on listening to the expert.
- Safari 4 beta is released and gets terrible reviews.
- User experience expert moves on to destroy another product somewhere else

:-)

Yes, because Apple have absolutely no experience in UX or product design. They don't know how to make fluid and intuitive interfaces. I mean, just look at Windows and that Zune thing. Wait, was that Apple?

I like the new UI. With the bookmarks bar disabled, the window chrome is tiny. More space for viewing. It actually feels like one of those specialised web browsers like Fluid that only provide minimal UI, except that Safari is a fully-featured browser.

KingYaba
Feb 28, 2009, 06:23 PM
Great article. Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

TimDaddy
Feb 28, 2009, 06:29 PM
By moving the tabs to the title bar, you seem to get a little bit more space for viewing your web page. It did take me a a little time to get used to, though.

SydneyDev
Feb 28, 2009, 06:40 PM
It's not a disaster, but usually Apple interfaces are designed to be simple as possible. This seems to be designed for power users. It's easy to forget as a computer enthusiast that most people just browse one site at a time.

Safari Pro?

ditzy
Feb 28, 2009, 06:42 PM
Tabs being in a different place is taking some getting used to, but I never particularly liked where the old tabs were, I just got used to it. I prefer where the tabs are now I just have to get used to it.

truz
Feb 28, 2009, 06:42 PM
I love the new tab option, however when I have 8 or 9 tabs I can't see all the titles, would be nice to have a hover option to see what tabs are opened (title of pages you have opened).

As for the ones complaining, I'm sure apple will have a classic skin you can switch to.

NT1440
Feb 28, 2009, 06:43 PM
What!? Someone somewhere happens to not like a change to the look of something?!

STOP THE PRESSES!

Seriously, why is this news?

slicecom
Feb 28, 2009, 06:52 PM
I love the tabs on top, but Google DID do it better. The tabs are always the same size in Chrome, wheras in Safari they change size every time you add a new one. This is NOT good UI design, something Apple usually excels at.

wx4svr
Feb 28, 2009, 06:52 PM
The only thing I wish came "built in" is the blue loading bar. I actually used that thing. Now, I have to look for that little spinning thing to see if it is loading or just sitting. Kinda annoying.
:apple:

okrelayer
Feb 28, 2009, 06:59 PM
while i love the new safari. I wish the blue loading came back, and i wish i could tell the difference a little easyer between the active tab, and the other tabs. I dont mind them on top anymore either

BenRoethig
Feb 28, 2009, 07:43 PM
I completely disagree its a UI disaster. Yes, it took me a few days to get used to the top tabs and yes I still miss the progress bar, but I'm left with a browser that is faster, gives me more viewing space, and gives a lot of options I loved in other browsers. Safari 3 couldn't be further in the rear view mirror now. In fact I wish a few Safari GUI items would make their way into the finder. Now, if they would only channel the same effort into Safari's compatibility with websites.

neoserver
Feb 28, 2009, 07:47 PM
I agree with many of the previous poster's view on the changes. I welcome them. As is often repeated, it took me a couple hours to get used to the new location of the tabs, but I do enjoy the increased viewing space. I do miss the loading bar and I hope that in the next version they restore it.

The one thing that I absolutely love about the new Safari is the Google Suggestions. That alone is worth the upgrade to me as its a feature I miss from Firefox on Windows.

QuarterSwede
Feb 28, 2009, 08:12 PM
Just to add my few cents, I think the article writer is dead wrong. There is no question that Apple copied Google (they popularized tabs on top, Top Sites) but I believe Apple's implementation of tabs on top is a much more efficient use of space. When I saw Google Chrome one of the first things I thought was, "Look at all that wasted title bar space and they stick tabs right under it?" Good thing Apple came along and actually put 2+2 together.

VSMacOne
Feb 28, 2009, 08:29 PM
I prefer Control-Tab.

cool... I just realized that Ctr-Shift-Tab goes the other way :D

I love the new tab option, however when I have 8 or 9 tabs I can't see all the titles, would be nice to have a hover option to see what tabs are opened (title of pages you have opened).

As for the ones complaining, I'm sure apple will have a classic skin you can switch to.

good idea... Maybe they can implement it in later builds to where you can see the full address or at least full name of the tab by hovering over it with the cursor.

dam0dred
Feb 28, 2009, 09:30 PM
The Safari 4 UI is very sloppy. Unnecessarily flashy, useless features (CoverFlow for bookmarks? Please). Shows some promise but very rough in spots.

ntrigue
Feb 28, 2009, 09:42 PM
I really like Safari 4 Beta. The tabs are attractive but I have disocered that I inadvertently drag the window a millimeter. It really bugged me with Safari 3 that the tabs make the window larger as I like to have my browser take up 99% of my desktop.

MobileMe is blazing fast on SB4!

QuarterSwede
Feb 28, 2009, 09:46 PM
... useless features (CoverFlow for bookmarks? Please).
Coverflow for bookmarks is a perfect use of it. Now I don't have to actually visit a site that I can't remember what it is. I'm definitely not the only one that feels this way.

good idea... Maybe they can implement it in later builds to where you can see the full address or at least full name of the tab by hovering over it with the cursor.
It shows you the title in a tooltip already.

alexbates
Feb 28, 2009, 09:49 PM
This article is a joke. Just because the tabs are moved Safari is considered a UI disaster? Give me a break! The guy can't even spell or punctuate correctly in half of his "article." More like a piece of garbage.

I agree. The new tab bar UI is much better than Safari 3. If people don't like it, they can just go ahead and use something. I would think that the majority of people would like this idea though because it saves so much wasted space.

Rocketman
Feb 28, 2009, 10:33 PM
Apple does something new, some fanboys hate it. Then they eventually like it, and eventually we all love/accept it (a handful hold on to their grudges though). Then Apple does something new again, and the cycle repeats.

Agreed and that said. What "could" they do to mmake it better?

They have a massive tema of UI people working on this for primarily portable device compatibility, that tinks thios is the way to go. Do you agree?

It seems you do.

Also I wonder why Apple does not simply support every video format on the planet within Safari including camera formats FCP supports, as well as audio formats, and essentially every media format.

It sure would simplify matters if Apple as I have been saying for 3 years, would simply state VERY publicly what video, audio, and streaming formats, they suggest content and device manufacturers support. This way their de facto predominance is propogated among the indy device and media suppliers.

Rocketman

dam0dred
Feb 28, 2009, 11:43 PM
Coverflow for bookmarks is a perfect use of it. Now I don't have to actually visit a site that I can't remember what it is. I'm definitely not the only one that feels this way.


It shows you the title in a tooltip already.

Fair enough, but I am definitely not the only one who feels CoverFlow is totally useless whether it's in the Finder, Safari, iPhone or nano. I wish there was an option to turn it off.

MacAaron
Feb 28, 2009, 11:43 PM
I am using Safari 4 and I am liking it. I like the tabs being on top. Don't know what it is, but I like it. just fyi, you do know there is a terminal command to put the tabs on the bottom like in Safari 3. Just type in the command below.

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE

if you want to go back to the tabs on top then type in the following.

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool TRUE

TyloBedo
Feb 28, 2009, 11:49 PM
i hate the new safari. It feels to chromish.

I just hate the ui and its looks ugly and the top bar is demented different shades with buttons everywhere


+ my stop/refresh button is gone:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

MacAaron
Feb 28, 2009, 11:52 PM
One of things I do miss though is the blue loading bar that was in address bar. Hopefully, Apple will put this in the final version.

allbrokeup
Mar 1, 2009, 02:37 AM
When both of the following strings are set to NO, it restores the Toolbar to normal, and the Progress Bar is back behind the URL field. I think the tabs are still on top though........

$ defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool NO
$ defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool NO

Edit: Oh yup, and I reckon S4 will look MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more at home in Snow Leopard.

asphyxiafeeling
Mar 1, 2009, 02:46 AM
my only gripe with Safari 4 has been using pinch to change text size (it FREAKS out) + no refresh/stop button on the main UI (not too important since you can use keyboard shortcuts for that).

pdxflint
Mar 1, 2009, 04:14 AM
I'm glad they implemented page zoom (like FF 3) but the zoom increments are too big... sometimes it's either a bit too small, or just a bit too big. Firefox has it right, and hopefully Safari will refine this just a bit...

I'm playing with Safari4, and it has some promise for me. It's always good to see evolutions in the browser world, but for now my serious tool is still FF 3, which was a huge improvement over FF2. Gotta have my extensions...

Alright... just hit my 1000th post!

Zyniker
Mar 1, 2009, 04:15 AM
i hate the new safari. It feels to chromish.

I just hate the ui and its looks ugly and the top bar is demented different shades with buttons everywhere


+ my stop/refresh button is gone:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Stop = right corner of the URL bar. Refresh = Command + R.

Zyniker
Mar 1, 2009, 04:18 AM
I'll admit, I don't like the new tab title bar combo, using a mouse, it's fine, but when using a trackpad, I find it a bit too difficult to select a tab, it's too easy for Safari to think I'm trying to drag the entire window around.

Command + Shift...or 'click' with the trackpad. Using the actual button tends to result in the dragging thing...annoying when it happens, but easily obviated by using keyboard shortcuts or a trackpad 'click'. :)

GilGrissom
Mar 1, 2009, 04:51 AM
Personally I love the new UI, yes it is very "Chromey" but I don't think this is a bad thing. Its taking a while getting used to having to hold down the diagonal lines at the side of the tab to rearrange them and the lack of a blue loading bar annoys me.

I did use the terminal commands that are floating around on the web and on this forum to put the blue loading bar back on, however it puts the loading circle icon in the top left hand corner of the tab ONLY, and not in the URL field like it is normally now, it didn't look the same grey background as the rest of the skin making it look dodgy and untidy, it was so bad I restored the basic UI and took off the blue loading bar, hopefully a compromise will be reached here in the final version.

Under the hood things seem promising but its clear its a beta still.

BillyBobBongo
Mar 1, 2009, 04:54 AM
MacBytes has to be one of the worst Mac discussion sites out there, MacRumors should really stop validating it by posting their drivel here too!

To call the UI a 'disaster' is a little far fetched. After using it for a few days I must admit that I'm torn between whether I preferred the old position or the new position of the tabs.

However, the tabs still function in their new position. Click the left edge of the tab to close it...click the right edge of the tab to move it...click and hold any tab anywhere else and move the entire window.

A disaster it is not!

SydneyDev
Mar 1, 2009, 05:21 AM
MacBytes has to be one of the worst Mac discussion sites out there, MacRumors should really stop validating it by posting their drivel here too!

Are you for real? You are a 6502a, how can you not know?

DMann
Mar 1, 2009, 05:27 AM
Tweaks are always an option for those who wish to revert.

BillyBobBongo
Mar 1, 2009, 05:40 AM
Are you for real? You are a 6502a, how can you not know?

LOL!

I knew/know....sometimes you gotta state the obvious! ;)

PCMacUser
Mar 1, 2009, 06:54 AM
The tabs in the title bar are the only thing I can think of that I don't like in Safari 4 - which is pretty good for me because I've never really liked Safari. I don't like them because in Windows Vista, the title bar is translucent which makes reading the tab titles extremely difficult (depending on your wallpaper/background colour).

The beta is very unstable in Windows, but this is to be expected since it is, after all, a beta.

rekhyt
Mar 1, 2009, 07:26 AM
Haven't really tried it yet. Looked at screenshots, sounds great. Waiting for the public release version.

kurosov
Mar 1, 2009, 08:05 AM
+ my stop/refresh button is gone:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

If i see another comment like this i am going to go crazy.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c398/kurosawa_isamu/there.gif

clevin
Mar 1, 2009, 08:07 AM
The tabs in the title bar are the only thing I can think of that I don't like in Safari 4 - which is pretty good for me because I've never really liked Safari. I don't like them because in Windows Vista, the title bar is translucent which makes reading the tab titles extremely difficult (depending on your wallpaper/background colour).

The beta is very unstable in Windows, but this is to be expected since it is, after all, a beta.

vista allows you to adjust the degree of opacity of titlebar. you can play with it a bit.

PS. you can try the firefox addon "compact menu", with will shrink the menu items into an icon, such that you can hide the menubar completely.

crain300
Mar 1, 2009, 08:28 AM
love the new browser ,best browser i have ever used
makes me proud to be a mac owner of 4 macs

lftrghtparadigm
Mar 1, 2009, 08:28 AM
Safari 4 looks good. Has bugs, but its beta. Duh.

Complaining about it, as some have relentlessly, is plain sad.

clevin
Mar 1, 2009, 08:39 AM
Complaining about it, as some have relentlessly, is plain sad.

no, beta is here for "complain". Otherwise, why do you think software makers put out public beta?

Its not sad, and you should be thankful for people who complains, their complains contribute to a better final release for you.

You dont really think apple can just perfecting the product in a closed room with no user feedback, do you?

Failing to see the importance of complaining of a beta product, is whats really sad.

paulsalter
Mar 1, 2009, 08:45 AM
I have to agree with the article

I hate the new look

keep trying the new look and then using terminal to disable many new features and I just cannot get used to the new look (been going back and forward between the new/old look for the last 2 days)
the old style is much easier/quicker for me to navigate and looks better

as long as the option to disable these new features is there then i am happy, just wish apple would put something in preferences to disable features we do not like

jodelli
Mar 1, 2009, 08:46 AM
I like the 4 beta. Despite the initial WTF? at the top tabs it works for me, even though it took me a little while to figure out where the cursor was supposed to go to switch tabs, etc. I'm not one to pick up the manual.

mirffy
Mar 1, 2009, 09:09 AM
So.... in an attempt to customise the "Top Sites" I clicked away a lot of sites, hoping I'd at some point actually get to add bookmarks or links of my own choosing.
After having clicked a lot, I end missing the last row... what's going on here? Am I going to get it back?

Customising it with *my* sites would definitely be a great alternative to the automatically generated Top Sites.

CPD_1
Mar 1, 2009, 09:26 AM
So.... in an attempt to customise the "Top Sites" I clicked away a lot of sites, hoping I'd at some point actually get to add bookmarks or links of my own choosing.
After having clicked a lot, I end missing the last row... what's going on here? Am I going to get it back?

Customising it with *my* sites would definitely be a great alternative to the automatically generated Top Sites.

That's the one thing that bugs me at this point. I'd like to be able to choose the "Top Sites" as well. I'd replace my bookmarks toolbar if that were the case.

dam0dred
Mar 1, 2009, 09:31 AM
Safari 4 looks good. Has bugs, but its beta. Duh.

Complaining about it, as some have relentlessly, is plain sad.

Are you kidding me? The whole point of releasing a public beta is so people can complain. That's how the developers can make better software. Get a clue before you start criticizing others.

G-Force
Mar 1, 2009, 09:35 AM
Good article. The new tabs are not as flexible for me as the old ones. They behave weird when I drag a tab to another window and I can only drag them around by using a small corner. In Safari 3 I can drag the whole tab around. And when selecting a tab, I often start dragging the window around.

No, I don't like the new tabs. I also don't like the refresh button. It has the same issue I have with the Internet Explorer 7 refresh button, it should be located in the area where all other buttons are, not on a completely different location. That's just not how it should be if you ask me. I expect the refresh button in the area with all other buttons, but it isn't. Instead it's on the other side of the browser. That just seems strange to me. :confused:

Anyway, everyone has their opinion. I don't like the new UI. I do like Top Sites and Cover Flow. :)

slicecom
Mar 1, 2009, 09:35 AM
That's the one thing that bugs me at this point. I'd like to be able to choose the "Top Sites" as well. I'd replace my bookmarks toolbar if that were the case.

You CAN choose the top sites. Click edit then type of paste the page you want to add in the address bar and drag the icon down onto your top sites.

GilGrissom
Mar 1, 2009, 09:50 AM
So.... in an attempt to customise the "Top Sites" I clicked away a lot of sites, hoping I'd at some point actually get to add bookmarks or links of my own choosing.
After having clicked a lot, I end missing the last row... what's going on here? Am I going to get it back?

Customising it with *my* sites would definitely be a great alternative to the automatically generated Top Sites.
Ah yes, I'd say this is a must have feature of Top Sites.
Apple, take heed!

(You guys think Apple actually trawl this site for comments and suggestions on beta software?!!)

mirffy
Mar 1, 2009, 10:12 AM
You CAN choose the top sites. Click edit then type of paste the page you want to add in the address bar and drag the icon down onto your top sites.cheers, that's great :)

ppc_michael
Mar 1, 2009, 01:20 PM
I absolutely love everything except the tabs in the title bar. But I don't hate the tabs in the title bar either, I just have to get used to it.

clevin
Mar 1, 2009, 01:21 PM
(You guys think Apple actually trawl this site for comments and suggestions on beta software?!!)

yes,

UMHurricanes34
Mar 1, 2009, 01:34 PM
I absolutely love everything except the tabs in the title bar. But I don't hate the tabs in the title bar either, I just have to get used to it.

I'm with you there. It's neither love at first sight, nor hatred...just different. I think it looks a little funny, which irks me more than the functionality of it (I am an Apple user, after all...).

EvanLugh
Mar 1, 2009, 02:11 PM
I'm with you there. It's neither love at first sight, nor hatred...just different. I think it looks a little funny, which irks me more than the functionality of it (I am an Apple user, after all...).

Add me to that list too.. I'm getting used to it but, it just doesn't feel right.

Don't panic
Mar 1, 2009, 02:50 PM
overly dramatic a bit?

in terms of UI, the new safari is basically identical to the previous one, barred some very minor tweaks (whatever apple might claim)

Tabs are probably used by a minority anyway.
I would bet a good 70-80% of user wouldn't even notice it had changed at all if someone just updated it for them without telling them.

besides, imo tabs positioning it will become optional in the final release.
as far as i'm concerned, it's just a matter of habit. and i appreciate the more efficient use of space

BollywooD
Mar 1, 2009, 03:58 PM
I dont mind the new interface, but for me it makes my productivity much slower. Simple things are much more difficult to achieve than in Safari 3, everything is so far apart.... the refresh button, the bookmarks bar, the new tab button. I use a trackpad, and I am basically going from one edge of the screen to the other, to achieve something in Safari 3 I could do in a small space. Now you can only manage tabs with the 'small' right hand corner, as opposed to Safari 3's whole tab....

I do like the tabs on top layout, but it does seem rather inefficient, not to mention the total lack of progress indicators for page loading... the little spinning icon shows you 'something' is happening, but gives you no indication of how far along it is, and im often sitting staring at a static page, wondering if anything is happening.

If apple can address these 'shortcomings' Safari 4 will be a great update.
:):confused:

jaw04005
Mar 1, 2009, 04:00 PM
Personally, I can't stand the new UI. It requires further movement of the mouse from the web page (which is where your mouse cursor would normally reside), and it's not as easy to reorganize or close tabs since the tab bar is so wide.

Additionally, why can you only reorganize tabs from one corner of the new tab bar?

It looks like the Safari UI team is out of ideas, and just copying Chrome. I'll just use Firefox.

PCMacUser
Mar 1, 2009, 05:28 PM
Personally, I can't stand the new UI. It requires further movement of the mouse from the web page (which is where your mouse cursor would normally reside), and it's not as easy to reorganize or close tabs since the tab bar is so wide.
I totally agree with both of your points there.
Additionally, why can you only reorganize tabs from one corner of the new tab bar?

That's because dragging in other parts of the tabs moves the entire Safari application around the desktop.

Hey Apple - don't be afraid. Safari's tabbed wrong, so make it better.

megfilmworks
Mar 1, 2009, 05:33 PM
Absolutely love the Beta. Fast in tabs, great UI.
Love the Top Sites which is easily customizable as a bookmark interface.
Not one crash after days of continual power usage.

mkoval11
Mar 1, 2009, 06:22 PM
Safari 4 is excellent and you guys who are poo pooing it need to chill a little. First it's beta. Second its new, so give it an opportunity. So many of us dislike something at first to only love it once we see it's true potential. The Show Top Sites screen is very cool and its performance seems much better than IE7 or the beta of IE8. I'm going to give the new UI a chance but so far so good.

I can see Cover Flow coming to a Safari next...

megfilmworks
Mar 1, 2009, 06:25 PM
I can see Cover Flow coming to a Safari next...

Cover flow is in bookmarks with this version. Works great!

jfayngor
Mar 1, 2009, 08:00 PM
Use CMD+SHIFT+[ or ] to switch between tabs, much more efficient and easier when you get second nature to that command.


I had a issue with the tabs until i saw that, now i love safari 4. :D

123
Mar 2, 2009, 02:18 AM
Coverflow for bookmarks is a perfect use of it. Now I don't have to actually visit a site that I can't remember what it is. I'm definitely not the only one that feels this way.


BS, this is what thumbnails a la iPhoto are for. Coverflow is a waste of space and time. The only acceptable use is for emotional/inspirational stuff like music album art. It's the wrong tool for focused visual search.

G-Force
Mar 2, 2009, 03:16 AM
Safari 4 is excellent and you guys who are poo pooing it need to chill a little.
Your opinion. For me, Safari 4 is not excellent in terms of UI. Why should we chill, can't you handle it if some people dislike something from Apple?
First it's beta.
That does NOT mean we can't comment on Safari 4. Why do you think Apple releases public betas? To receive comments from users!
Second its new, so give it an opportunity.
And you decide for us that we didn't give it a chance? Don't think you can decide for me how I use Safari.
So many of us dislike something at first to only love it once we see it's true potential.
And many of us can see that something will not work for them in the future...

Something with respect and opinion... I respect yours, you should respect mine/ours.

SnowLeopard2008
Mar 2, 2009, 03:57 AM
Your opinion. For me, Safari 4 is not excellent in terms of UI. Why should we chill, can't you handle it if some people dislike something from Apple?

That does NOT mean we can't comment on Safari 4. Why do you think Apple releases public betas? To receive comments from users!

And you decide for us that we didn't give it a chance? Don't think you can decide for me how I use Safari.

And many of us can see that something will not work for them in the future...

Something with respect and opinion... I respect yours, you should respect mine/ours.

Chill man. I for one love the new GUI. It's different, and isn't Apple all about being different from the PC world? People hate adjusting to change, like when Apple changed to USB in the late 1990s. Or the cd-rom. Etc. New things take some time to get used too. I accept change as it comes. If you want to change it back, there is a terminal command. I'll post it so you won't go insane:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool NO

G-Force
Mar 2, 2009, 04:35 AM
Chill man.
I'll post it so you won't go insane:
No need to post stuff like this... I don't say things like that about you do I? Why is it that when I say I don't like the new interface, I need to chill and have a chance of going insane? It looks like some people here can't handle the fact that not ALL people agree with Apple on anything.

Some quotes:
and you guys who are poo pooing it need to chill a little
This article is a joke.
this guy is a joke!

I mean, come on... You all would not call this article a joke if he agreed with Apple in the same way.

Anyway, I know the command, but please notice the "Debug" part. That could mean the commands will not work anymore once the final version is released.

Palm Pimp
Mar 2, 2009, 07:20 AM
It's okay, Chrome and Firefox still kill it.

akutad
Mar 2, 2009, 07:30 AM
I love the look and feel of Safari 4.0. The only thing I dislike is that it really slows my computer down. I will be removing Safari 4.0 this weekend and wait till they work out performance bugs. Is anyone else having these issues? Simple low graphic website are slow too? What up with that? I have a 7 Mbps connection! Love to hear feedback on other's people performance. Is it my computer or Safari. Started to happen right after initial install of Safari 4.0.

Cheers! I Love this site.:apple:

jesaja
Mar 2, 2009, 07:39 AM
I personally welcome every pixel of vertical space I get from a browser, so at first look, the Tabs-on-top are great.

On second look, though, there are several problems with them, some already mentioned here, but my biggest gripe with them is the same as it was before they were moved up there: I surf with lots and lots of open tabs, and it doesn't take long for them to vanish into the [...]-button.
That has 3 disadvantages:
I have to click twice to activate a tab that's hidden
I don't see a lot of tabs
The tabs get squeezed horizontally, until I can't really distinguish them any longer.

A solution would be something like TreeStyle Tab (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890), a Firefox extension I love.

It could be styled like the iTunes/iPhoto Sidebar, and would have many advantages:

You can resize all of the tabs to the width of your liking without pushing others out of sight
As tabs are longer than they are high, a lot more fit into the visible area
You can have a scrollbar, if there are too many to fit on your screen (without it looking... wrong)
You can esily group tabs into folders

Having newly opened tabs from links automatically become child-tabs of the page you came from, like in TST, would be even better. I just love that. You can even collapse branches there.

I love Safari, but TST is reaaaally something I miss, and I often use FF just because of that. I think it is a much better alternative than Tabs-on-top!

Jojo

edesignuk
Mar 2, 2009, 07:41 AM
<Firefox fanboi>

Safari still doesn't hold a candle to Firefox as far as I'm concerned. Safari 4 hasn't changed my mind.

windowpain
Mar 2, 2009, 07:42 AM
I kinda like it. Been using it for about a day now and it's definitely growing on me.
The top sites thing is awesome, The tab bar needs a little work though imho..
maybe having a choice of where to put it is the answer. Or maybe we are all just stuck in our ways..

Calling it a UI disaster is very harsh.. I'm not going back to Safari 3, going to stick with this.

Compile 'em all
Mar 2, 2009, 07:43 AM
I'm not a fanboi or anything, but I LOVE the new look. The tab style is very practical as far as I'm concerned and I love the way it looks and feels. In fact, I like it BETTER than Chrome.
Yes there are glitches as with any beta release, but overall i'm sticking with Safari 4 as my primary browser.

second this, I was skeptical at first. On my macbook anything that gives more screen real estate is highly appreciated :)

IgnatiusTheKing
Mar 2, 2009, 07:43 AM
I like the new positioning of the tabs because the old way was wasted space. On a 13", widescreen display, you need all the vertical real estate you can get.

Top Sites, which he fails to even mention, is a revelation. I do not, however, like the new loading style. Bring back the loading status bar in the address field! (Yes, I know it can be hacked back into place but this is a beta, we're supposed to complain about something.)

macFanDave
Mar 2, 2009, 08:04 AM
(Yes, I know it can be hacked back into place but this is a beta, we're supposed to complain about something.)

Oh, and I will!

I like your avatar. I took a picture with that statue in New Orleans. I believe that was the D.H. Holmes were the book started. The statue wasn't as fat as I expected given the description in the book. What do you think?

To me, the new tab positioning is just wrong. My Bookmark Bar has categories. When I open one, the tab bar opens below it with the related pages and below that, a specific page is displayed. The presentation goes down in the following order: General -> More Specific -> Specific. The title bar and toolbar are fixed.

The Safari 4 (beta) order is: More Specific -> Toolbar -> General -> Specific. That makes no cognitive sense.

You may have a point about 13" monitors, but the new arrangement seems to go against the principles of the Apple Human Interface Guidelines (which were originally developed for a desktop with a 9" screen! ;) )

akutad
Mar 2, 2009, 12:19 PM
while i love the new safari. I wish the blue loading came back, and i wish i could tell the difference a little easyer between the active tab, and the other tabs. I dont mind them on top anymore either

I totally agree! Sometimes I have to reload the page because the blue indicator hadn't moved which comes in handy more often than none. I hope they bring this back. Really annoying with this removed.

HyperZboy
Mar 2, 2009, 01:02 PM
The REAL UI disaster is...

A) Removal of the innovative progress bar and replacement with an annoying spinning beachball that serves little purpose.

B) Removal of the innovative Snapback feature and its associated key command. (Option-Command-P)

C) Lack of toolbar options and removal/movement of Stop/Reload button. Next to RSS is just plain bad and I find myself hitting RSS by accident way too often.

I can live with the new tabs, but the missing features above are quite astounding considering Steve Jobs touted 2 of these features himself in a keynote address! And I really miss these quite dearly. I keep hitting Option-command-P all the time and get frustrated with nothing happening.

What were they thinking ??? :mad:

winninganthem
Mar 2, 2009, 01:13 PM
I dunno, I kinda like the new UI. I like the fact that the tabs are on top that way if you have multiple tabs it doesn't take up extra space on the bottom like it did before.

This way you also have more area to view your webpage and not the browser bar. As for snapback and whatnot, I never used those features before, so the change doesn't affect me, and I'm loving the new interface.

Although... I don't like the fact that refresh is right next to the RSS button (as mentioned above), and the lack of a stop button is unusual. Other than that, it's a pretty neat update.

thejadedmonkey
Mar 2, 2009, 01:14 PM
It's not a disaster, but usually Apple interfaces are designed to be simple as possible. This seems to be designed for power users. It's easy to forget as a computer enthusiast that most people just browse one site at a time.

Safari Pro?

My girlfriend's in El Ed and she uses tabs (after I installed Firefox). Actually, everyone I know uses tabs...

cia33
Mar 2, 2009, 01:46 PM
The guy who wrote the article is a pathetic Windows man. Who wants anything with a more Windows look. He needs to forget Windows and adopt the Mac mentality.

clevin
Mar 2, 2009, 03:56 PM
The guy who wrote the article is a pathetic Windows man. Who wants anything with a more Windows look. He needs to forget Windows and adopt the Mac mentality.

i hope you are being sarcastic.

the statement itself, is lunatic. There is nothing about mac mentality in the issue he brought up. Unless by mac mentality, you mean "never say a bad word about apple".