Mac OS X 10.4: Tiger

[MacRumors]

According to MacMagazine.com.br (Portuguese) (http://www.macmagazine.com.br/noticias/arquivo/002650.php), the upcoming Mac OS X update (10.4) will be known as "Tiger".

Apple has used similar feline names for previous versions of Mac OS X: 10.3 (Panther), 10.2 (Jaguar). In July (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030724025054.shtml), Apple registered a number of related trademarks: Lynx, Cougar, Leopard, and Tiger.

MacMagazine.com.br also reports that up until this point, 10.4 was known as "Merlot" internally. This is consistent with information available from MacRumors' sources.

[Chaszmyr]

I think calling it Tiger is just a bad idea... Tigers are far to generic and... immature sounding, in my opinion

[AppleMatt]

I just wanted to say that I predict within a year Paul Thurrott will say;
"It look's like Apple's operating system is more like Tigger than Tiger"
He's my hero :cool:

Also, that article claims Apple have got Safari upto v133 (in the A85 build of Tiger), compared to 125.1 that was included with 10.3.3

AppleMatt

[chicagoboy]

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

[Flowbee]

So the question is... will Tiger Woods sue Apple (a la Spike Lee and Spike TV)?? :D

[swissmann]

Rumors at the present time seem pretty lame considering that this made the front page. Who really cares what cat name they use? How about some features in it or something exciting?

[VicMacs]

GRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAT

[Stella]

I would guess - $$$

Shame it didn't mention any new features...

Tiger - not very inventive. Panther was an excellent name for 10.3
Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

[silvergunuk]

Sounds cool, they should have left tiger for 10.9 as the tiger is the toughest of all cats

[Ja Di ksw]

I think calling it Tiger is just a bad idea... Tigers are far to generic and... immature sounding, in my opinion

I disagree, tigers are the largest cats there are (excluding cross breeds which can't have young). They're also considered by many people to be one of the most visually striking cats. I would rather have my OS named after a huge, solitary, and powerful stalker than a bobcat, lion, ocelot, or any of the other non domesticated cats.

[Chaszmyr]

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

It will almost certainly cost $129 for a single license just like the previous OSX releases

[Snowy_River]

Personally, I like Tiger. It evokes images of calm power to me...

[GetSome681]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

[Namacste]

10.4...Tiger...whopee...

[Freg3000]

Sounds good to me. GRRRRRRR.

I wonder what the box will look like....

[javabear90]

Tiger stripes on the X????? :eek:

[Stella]

Apple have been cranking out yearly osx for a while now.. but yes, I think it sucks, there should be more of an interval.

However, Not wanting to start a flame war or anything... Apple does not force us to upgrade, 10.3 will not cripple itself and refuse to operate. I know a few people still on Jaquar, and they are quite happy.

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

[Fuchal]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

Except Apple upgrades actually do things and are worth it.

And Microsoft hasn't been releasing yearly OS updates.

[utkucan]

Sounds good to me. GRRRRRRR.

I wonder what the box will look like....


just like the frosties cereal box but only with an apple logo of course :)

[jgp]

Tiger is right! They will have a 64 bit OS (close at least) that should worthy of pride! They should name it Cyberian Tiger and it will be a great contrast to Pahther.

[Ja Di ksw]

Apple have been cranking out yearly osx for a while now.. but yes, I think it sucks, there should be more of an interval.

However, Not wanting to start a flame war or anything... Apple does not force us to upgrade, 10.3 will not cripple itself and refuse to operate. I know a few people still on Jaquar, and they are quite happy.

Yes, no one is forcing you to update. I am one of the people quite happy on Jaguar, though I admit I'm going to update soon, $25 for an update is just too good :D. If you are wondering what I'm talking about and are a student at a university, check with whoever handles all of your computing problems. Over here at the U of Illinois, they have a deal going on where, if you have Panther, you pay $65 and they will give you any update that comes out between now and 2006 for free, doesn't matter if its 10.4, 10.5, 11, or 12. If you don't have Panther, you have to upgrade to it, but they let you do that for $25. Pretty sweet deal, if you ask me.

[notmenotyou]

It will almost certainly cost $129 for a single license just like the previous OSX releases

in this case, my only option is to wait for the "tiger" pre-installed G5 PowerBook! :p

[pair-a-dice]

So is it going to be a normal tiger or a white tiger? :)

[jcshas]

Screenshots! Show us some Screenshots! :)

[rdowns]

in this case, my only option is to wait for the "tiger" pre-installed G5 PowerBook! :p

By the time they ship a G5 PB, we'll be on a new cat.

[RealityMonster]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...
No, that would require Microsoft to release an operating system more than once every 5 years.

Apple's problem is purely a numbering one. If they said that it was Mac OS XIV, people would be excited. Since it's just 10.4, people think that they're overcharging, despite the fact that the upgrades are pretty darn significant.

Oh well. I'm happy to pay my $129 for new goodies every year.

[Bhennies]

How about new Powermacs instead?

[leenoble]

The timetable for this release seems to be a bit more protracted than with Panther. We're only now just hearing about possible features and just got the big cat name.
There won't be an official announcement until WWDC in June but it seems like Tiger won't see the light of day until MWSF in January.
I can't honestly remember the schedule that Panther followed so I stand to be corrected and would love to be. But I think 2005 is more likely a release date.
Apart from anything else there isn't as much urgency with 10.4.
10.3 FINALLY really did make OSX mature. Now we're looking purely at enhancements and I think Apple can afford to spend a little more time getting things right.

[Dstreelm]

"youre a tiger baby yeah!!"

[zephc]

Sleepy Kitten :-D

http://www.sillygirl.com/cinema.php?PSerial=185

[Chaszmyr]

So is it going to be a normal tiger or a white tiger? :)

Probably a normal tiger, but i'd love to see a white tiger :-P

[noxes]

I can't wait for OS X Barry White, cause he is the coolest Cat around. :cool:

[Spades]

Apple is not turning into Microsoft. Apple releases a $129 upgrade every year. Microsoft releases a $300 patch every three years. There's a little bit of a difference. ;)

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

[PlaceofDis]

i love the idea of it being called "Tiger" but there are already too many things out there in the marketing world associated with this animal, Panther is uniquie, thats the only problem i have with this new name....

[Wonder Boy]

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

HA! newbies. you gotta love them.

[MacBoyX]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

What?

Microsoft does not update yearly.

Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2002
Windows Longhorn - 2006ish

NT3.51 - 1994
NT 4.0 - 1996
Windows 2000 - 1999
Windows XP - 2002
Windows 2003 Server - 2003

How do you figure (and please dont flame me if my dates are exactly right!) that Microsoft does a yearly upgrade? Or that MacOS X upgrades are in line with Microsoft's OS releases

[Sedak]

It shouldn't be as the Pzkpfw VI "Tiger". People will fear it as soon as they catch a view of it or as they get to know it's somewhere near :)

[walkerboh4269]

I know a few people still on Jaquar, and they are quite happy.

I am Still runing 10.2.8 and I am very happy. I bought a used Ibook 700 Combo last year that was my frist mac. About a month after I got it 10.3 was released. I didn't want to put out that much for an upgrade so I decided that I will wait and hope for a G5 powerbook and then look at geting a whole new machine. :o

[coolfactor]

Tiger is right! They will have a 64 bit OS (close at least) that should worthy of pride! They should name it Cyberian Tiger and it will be a great contrast to Pahther.

Yep, I agree! Although it doesn't have the "Panther-like" ring to it, I think we will get used to it pretty quick. We got used to the eMac, which didn't sit well with a lot of people, but I own one now and love it. I also convince friends into buying a couple of them, and they love it too.

So, bring on the Tiger, baby!

[jeffgarden]

What ? No Siegfried and Roy jokes !?

[Foxer]

I like OS updates, and it doesn't really what the name is. Tiger is pretty alright. To be honest, I have a hard time remembering if Panther or Jaguar is the current edition. (I know it's Panther, but I had to think for a minute).

What I'm wondering is this: When will they move on to OS 11? I know the "X' is cool and all, but times change and we must change with them. I suspect that OS 11 will be a step removed from OSX, containing some improvment more dramatic than Expose and improved Finder functionality (although I GURANTEE that "improved finder functionality" will be a major feature of OS 11, and 12, and 13...). Maybe this Big Step is the whole 64 bit thing. Who knows?

Any thoughts? Remember, OSX is already the longest running OS in Apple history, short of System 7 (of course).

[michaelrjohnson]

i do not care what it is named, as long it continues to evolve for the better, and as long as it improves on Panther, I am happy.....

there we go. back to reality! thanks shabbasuraj.

i really dont' think we need to "argue" over the name. yes, we want features, but that's not available yet. tiger is fine, ocelot is fine, garfield is fine, i dont' care. we just want features :)

[macridah]

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

It's most likely going to cost ya. I heard that there will be so much new features, it would be crazy to give for free.

[FriarTuck]

So is it going to be a normal tiger or a white tiger? :)

Really, how cold-hearted can Apple be?

Roy Horn is still in physical therapy 9 hours a day, and Apple just happens to issue an operating system called "Tiger" ?

Have you no shame, Apple? Have you no shame?

;)

[wPod]

hey, maybe in 'tiger' FileVault will actually work!!! every 10.3 upgrade i have done i have had the same FileVault problem so i have given up.

forget tiger. . . it should just be hobbes!

oh yeah. . . maybe Steve will drive around a GTO to give some publicity to tiger!

[montecristo]

I wonder if "Tiger" will have BlueTooth enhancements, and they could call that "Sabertooth"! :D

"Tiger" is a good name -- as others have mentioned it is the biggest cat, and has nice striped patterns, but I would have preferred something less common-sounding, like Puma or Cougar (what was 10.0? I think 10.1 was Cheetah, right?)

[Awimoway]

Looking forward to putting a Tiger in my tank...

[Dstreelm]

Has anyone heard anything about the "piles" concept that we were told may be included in panther but wasnt? i always thought it was a good idea. also, what about the 3D desktop unveiled recently by sun? if you havent seen the little movie, you should, i cant remember where i found it

[montecristo]

...
What I'm wondering is this: When will they move on to OS 11? I know the "X' is cool and all, but times change and we must change with them

...

Any thoughts? Remember, OSX is already the longest running OS in Apple history, short of System 7 (of course).

I think in Apple's mind, 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 are all major upgrades to the OS. So really, its like OSX version 1, version 2 and version 3, like MAc OS System 7, System 8 and System 9.
Something like 10.2.7 to 10.2.8 is an upgrade akin to System 9.1 to 9.2.

That's why in Apple's mind, they charge for an upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3 but not for 10.3.2 to 10.3.3. (like in the old days, they charged from System 8.5 to 9, but not from 9.1 to 9.2).

So in short, we already are on system 11, 12, and 13....

[TheInevitable]

Even though 'Tiger' may not sound unique, I think it is very marketable.

I think the toughest name would be 'Mac OS X: Battlecat'.

[DPazdanISU]

I don't care if its called kitty as long as it continues to have awsome features that windoze doesnt!

[Foxer]

I think in Apple's mind, 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 are all major upgrades to the OS. So really, its like OSX version 1, version 2 and version 3, like MAc OS System 7, System 8 and System 9.
Something like 10.2.7 to 10.2.8 is an upgrade akin to System 9.1 to 9.2.
So in short, we already are on system 11, 12, and 13....

Yeah, I've thought the same thing from time to time. Eventually the will get to 10.9, and then there's no place to go. OSX XP maybe. :D

[QCassidy352]

hooray! I've been waiting for the "tiger" OS! :)

[simX]

What I'm wondering is this: When will they move on to OS 11? I know the "X' is cool and all, but times change and we must change with them. I suspect that OS 11 will be a step removed from OSX, containing some improvment more dramatic than Expose and improved Finder functionality (although I GURANTEE that "improved finder functionality" will be a major feature of OS 11, and 12, and 13...). Maybe this Big Step is the whole 64 bit thing. Who knows?

Any thoughts? Remember, OSX is already the longest running OS in Apple history, short of System 7 (of course).

Mac OS X isn't the longest running OS in Apple history. They've just decided to put off the Mac OS XI naming scheme that is going to be REALLY ugly, so instead of doing full integer increases for major operating systems, they've relegated it to the tenths digit.

How I've always thought of it is that "Mac OS X" is the operating system name, and then you have the version number. The "X" isn't part of the version number, it's to indicate that it's a totally redesigned operating system. As such, "Mac OS 11" wouldn't be appropriate because that incorporates X into the version number and decreases the difference between the Classic Mac OS. So that's why the version number increases have been scaled down as opposed to the Classic Mac OS days.

"Mac OS X" is really just the operating system moniker, like "Mac OS" or "System". So "Mac OS X" isn't the longest running operating system from Apple, "System" is. After all, we went all the way through System 7.5.5 before they renamed it to the "Mac OS".

[Tiauguinho]

As I've already told Arn, there is a little bit more info on that article, not a lot, but still:

.The Internal build of Tiger is 8A85(the "A" means its still on Alpha)

. And that it uses Safari v133 as oposed to v125.1 that 10.3.3 uses

And that's all :)

[idkew]

in this case, my only option is to wait for the "tiger" pre-installed G5 PowerBook! :p

i don't quite understand. you CAN afford a $2,000-$3,000+ laptop, but CAN NOT afford a $129 OS? am i correct on this?

[NightThree]

According to MacMagazine.com.br (Portuguese) (http://www.macmagazine.com.br/noticias/arquivo/002650.php), the upcoming Mac OS X update (10.4) will be known as "Tiger".

Or, as Steve calls it, "tie-jher."

- still on 10.2.8 and waiting for 10.4

[MacsRgr8]

We can get all excited just by hearing what the name of the next Mac OS X version will be! :o

So cool! :cool:

I love being a Mac lover :D

[Mr.Hey]

GRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAT

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[laserbeahm]

10.0 should have been called "Housecat" or "Tabby"

[otter-boy]

What I'm wondering is this: When will they move on to OS 11? I know the "X' is cool and all, but times change and we must change with them. I suspect that OS 11 will be a step removed from OSX, containing some improvment more dramatic than Expose and improved Finder functionality (although I GURANTEE that "improved finder functionality" will be a major feature of OS 11, and 12, and 13...). Maybe this Big Step is the whole 64 bit thing. Who knows?

Any thoughts? Remember, OSX is already the longest running OS in Apple history, short of System 7 (of course).

Steve Jobs has said that OS X should last the better part of this decade (until 2010, maybe even past). OS X really denotes the Unix core. Since earlier Mac OSes shared a similar core, you may say that each iteration of OS X is like a step up in the earlier Mac OS. I know that you can't compare them directly, but think of the update from 10.1 to 10.2 as being similar to the update from OS 6 to OS 7. DOn't expect a shift to OS 11 without a radical shift from the FreeBSD version of Unix that Apple has based Mac OS X on.

[guess I jumped in late on this one. But SJ did make that decade comment at a keynote within the last couple of years (sorry that I don't remember which one. Maybe someone else knows.)]

[Haberdasher]

Sounds cool, they should have left tiger for 10.9 as the tiger is the toughest of all cats

That would be the LION! :D

[nagromme]

And to tone down the cries about $129, I'll repeat what I've said before:

There have only been three paid versions of OS X: 10.0, 10.2, and 10.3 (remember: 10.1 was free). So there have only been TWO periods between paid versions: 17 months and 14 months. Which kind of puts into perspective when people complain about having to pay every year.

People often overlook three things when they complain that Apple advances Mac OS X too quickly:

First, regarding cost, $129 is NOT "full" price, it's an upgrade to whatever version of Mac OS (8? 9?) you already own. Some expect OS X should ship at two different prices--like a new version of Photoshop or Office--but that would only make sense if there were buyers who did not ALREADY own Mac OS. Apple has never sold Macs without Mac OS, so there IS no "standalone"/"first purchase" price for OS X. Everyone's first Mac OS purchase is simply bundled WITH a Mac.

Second, regarding version numbers, 10.3 (etc.) is NOT just a "point release" as some people like to pretend. Many companies use a decimal point for minor updates, and change the main version number for every major update. But Apple doesn't anymore. They have a known brand (and logo) for Mac OS X, and they want to stick with that for now. So they put the major number after the 10. 10.3 is like Mac OS 13. One look at the feature list of Panther will make clear that it is no minor release. The number is not what's important, is it?

Third, regarding timing, OS X was a new OS, and thus initially it was subject to faster improvement and more frequent upgrades. That's very desirable in a new product! But the update rate slows down over time--and that's clearly been the case with OS X:

Mac OS X Public Beta: 9/13/2000
$30 (free shipping, like all versions), all credited towards purchase of 10.0.

...6 months...

10.0 Cheeta: 3/24/2001
$129 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS. ($99 for Public Beta users.)

...6 months...

10.1 Puma: 9/29/2001
Free to 10.0 owners, $129 upgrade from all pre-X versions. Given away at CompUSA and other stores. (Mac users who have been with OS X from the beta days have still only paid for it once.)

...11 months...

10.2 Jaguar: 8/24/2002
$129 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS.

...14 months...

10.3 Panther: 10/24/2003
$129 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS.

...more than 14 months?...

10.4 ?

So the upgrade cycle, in months, has been: 6 - 6 - 11 - 14 (with two free versions early on). Apple's rate of change has naturally slowed as the OS has matured.

Panther took 3 months longer than Jaguar. What if 10.4 takes 3 months longer (17 months) than Panther? 10.4 would then be released in late March 2005. Or if development STOPS slowing down and 10.4 only takes 14 months again... that's still late December 2004. So even if 10.4 takes the same or slightly less time than 10.3, Apple might still wait a few days to release it in 2005. That would please the vocal people who think Apple should move slower: there would be NO paid releases in 2004.

And remember that earliest reports and developer previews of a new Mac OS often come out FAR ahead of the shipping product. So I think early 2005 is very likely for 10.4.

And if you don't like the features Apple offers in a given version... don't buy it. Buy every other upgrade, or stick with what works for as long as you like.

[1macker1]

I think it's funny that a company that can release some software they they call 'state of the art' every year. I only upgraded to Panther because I was fooled by the 150+ new features. I say i use maybe 10 of those 150 features are useable. I want a complete list of what these so called new features are. If your SW is so stable why update it every year. I'm all for change, but atleast give me something that's worth changing for.

[silvergunuk]

Haberdasher, Check again the tiger dwarfs the lion in size and would kill it in a fight. The lion just sits about doing bugger all all day whilst it sends the females out to kill. It's no match, the Tiger would have a Lion. :)

[michaelb]

I have a hard time believing "Tiger" is the final name.

It sounds too bland, too unimaginative for Apple's engineers to have put their heart and soul into it. Tiger is a name for a toddler's furry stuffed toy, not a state of the art computer OS.

Even if it was contributed by marketing people, it doesn't have the right sense of mystery and exoticness to associate with an Apple product.

Shakespeare may have said, "What's in a name?" But Marketing 101 tells us, "A hell of a lot."

[leenoble]

what about the 3D desktop unveiled recently by sun?
I didn't think the Sun demo went nearly far enough. Things may have changed in more recent builds but from the demo I saw I remember a desertscape rocky background picture right?
And the windows would fold sideways to reveal the desktop and the title of windows was written down the side of the window. The "minimised" windows were MASSIVE. I really couldn't see the point.
However, coming back to that desktop. What would be really cool is if you could place icons and windows in the distance, behind that rocky outcrop just to the left of the cactus. Because we remember things spatially, even if the icon was infinitessimally small it wouldn't matter because we would be more likely to remember where we put it. We could keep things strewn about our 3d landscape desktops and still know where things were. Much more could be stored this way.
Think about it like this. Imagine you're looking for your cheesegrater. In front of you you have a dozen shelves each with a dozen objects on of roughly equal size. There's your cheesegrater, a shoe, a telephone, a cuddly toy etc etc.
Picking out your chessegrater isn't too difficult when you only have a few items to choose from but the more items you have the harder your task becomes as you have to scan all the roughly equally sized objects.
Now forget the grid like shelf structure.
Where's your cheesegrater?
Second cupboard on the right in the kitchen, bottom shelf behind the plates.
Easy!
I think Sun dropped the ball with that one and someone needs to pick it up and place it in the foreground.

[bonk]

10.69

THUNDERCATS HO-OOOOOO!


...big pink X....... etc....

[SiliconAddict]

I would guess - $$$

Tiger - not very inventive. Panther was an excellent name for 10.3

:rolleyes:
Let me get this straight. Jaguar and Panther inventive. Tiger isn't?!!? It's a feline name. What kind of innovation do you need!??!?! The thought process of some people amazes me. :eek:

I personally like it. Tigers are one of the strongest most beautiful of the Big cats. Bring it on.

[gopher]

10.69

THUNDERCATS HO-OOOOOO!


...big pink X....... etc....

You aren't far off. Apple once nicknamed the OS they were developing for the CHRP Pink. Made the cover of Macworld magazine.

OS XI = Pink Panther?

[shuffle1]

Except Apple upgrades actually do things and are worth it.

And Microsoft hasn't been releasing yearly OS updates.


Unless you count yearly OS fixes and security patches. I couldn't resist...

[jayscheuerle]

Let's just hope they're not bringing back the stripes on the menubar...

[VeeDubMac]

Oh I know why there are no screenshots...



.
.
.
.
.
this Tiger is crouching and hiding with some dragon.






I am so sorry. someone had to do it. :D

[painandgreed]

What?

Microsoft does not update yearly.

Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2002
Windows Longhorn - 2006ish


You're forgetting:
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows ME

Not to menton that MS upgrades are twice what Apple's are.

[gschumsky]

Funny, but I haven't seen Lion (king of the cats). At least they haven't put "Civet" into that list :D Have a hard time seeing "It's a OSX-like operating system".

Lion would be cool (way more powerful and cooler than a tiger imo).

[Dstreelm]

I didn't think the Sun demo went nearly far enough. Things may have changed in more recent builds but from the demo I saw I remember a desertscape rocky background picture right?
And the windows would fold sideways to reveal the desktop and the title of windows was written down the side of the window. The "minimised" windows were MASSIVE. I really couldn't see the point.
However, coming back to that desktop. What would be really cool is if you could place icons and windows in the distance, behind that rocky outcrop just to the left of the cactus. Because we remember things spatially, even if the icon was infinitessimally small it wouldn't matter because we would be more likely to remember where we put it. We could keep things strewn about our 3d landscape desktops and still know where things were. Much more could be stored this way.
Think about it like this. Imagine you're looking for your cheesegrater. In front of you you have a dozen shelves each with a dozen objects on of roughly equal size. There's your cheesegrater, a shoe, a telephone, a cuddly toy etc etc.
Picking out your chessegrater isn't too difficult when you only have a few items to choose from but the more items you have the harder your task becomes as you have to scan all the roughly equally sized objects.
Now forget the grid like shelf structure.
Where's your cheesegrater?
Second cupboard on the right in the kitchen, bottom shelf behind the plates.
Easy!
I think Sun dropped the ball with that one and someone needs to pick it up and place it in the foreground.


Yeah, i agree!! I was by no means saying that it was a totally thought through, but it still presented an interesting concept in terms of what it could be.

Its an entire new direction for GUIs, just by taking a slightly different point of view, all these different opporutinties for further development. And this is where, i think, apple should go. They've already created the greatest (i think) 2D operating system, why not go out and try to create the best 3D system out there?. After all 3D environments seems to be the eventual direction of the user interface.

[Hemingray]

What ? No Siegfried and Roy jokes !?

Okay, since you mentioned it... I got this visual of Siegfried and Roy being attacked by a giant X... :rolleyes:

[Stella]

There is nothing to stop apple from going:
10.9, 10.10, 10.11 etc...

However, by this time, I think apple will have dragged out the X a bit too long.

I wonder if 10.4 will have updated iPhoto etc that appears in iLife 2 (2003 whatever it is)?

[Frisco]

I like the name Tiger! Tigers are my favorite animals and I love all cats in general--that's why I switched from Windows ;)

Tigers are powerful, graceful, arrogant, territorial, proud and they always seem to land on their feet when they fall--wait a minute that sounds like Steve Jobs :rolleyes:

[ccuilla]

Here are some guesses/wishes to get us all started:

(keep in mind Apple seems to like to list 10 "really compelling new features" with another 90 or so that are cool to have as well...these are usually a balance between consumer and pro)

Faster (always)

Further UI refinements and subtle changes

Still better interoperability with Windoze

"Home on iPod" (finally!)

Finder
- "smart folders" (including true meta-data built into the filesystem)
- support for compression/archive formats other than ZIP

Address Book
- "smart groups"
- envelope printing (duh!)

Mail
- "smart folders"

Dock
- perhaps re-considered and re-designed a bit

(sorry, that is all I can think of)

[SiliconAddict]

Haberdasher, Check again the tiger dwarfs the lion in size and would kill it in a fight. The lion just sits about doing bugger all all day whilst it sends the females out to kill. It's no match, the Tiger would have a Lion. :)

Heh. Not true if you are to believe the discovery channel. They've got this weird series on pitting one animal against another in computer simulations.
Animal Face-off (http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/animalfaceoff/animalfaceoff.html)
The lion thrashed the tiger due to its mane which kept the tiger from delivering the 1000+ pounds of pressure it can deliver to snap the spinal cord. That and lions are taught how to fight not hunt but fight from birth. Tigers are natural stalkers. They hunt. Male lions have to fight for control of their pride. I still think the show was BS. Tigers have more girth behind them. They ARE bigger and stronger, esp a Amur tiger. Tiger paws alone can snap bones with a swipe. It would be an even match if nothing else. The show focused way too much on the killing methods rather then the total traits of the animals.

[ZildjianKX]

However, Not wanting to start a flame war or anything... Apple does not force us to upgrade, 10.3 will not cripple itself and refuse to operate. I know a few people still on Jaquar, and they are quite happy.

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

[fartheststar]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

Which is why I'm still using 10.2.8. I've had my Mac since August 03, and have decided that I'll upgrade every 2 OS's or less if they release one per year. I would like Expose and a better Safari but can't justify the $129 for that. Maybe with both of those and some new features in 10.4, I'll likely buy. (esp Home on iPod).

[bluefido]

Considering I have loved every new Mac OS X release to date. However, I am still probably not going to purchase it if a $129 fee is attached. As much I love Apple products, I have reached that point where Panther will be my OS of choice for some time. I do not necessarily need the latest and greatest upgrade. It would be nice, but I do have other needs and expenses. And $129 is not pocket change.

[ccuilla]

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

Only if you need/want that new software.

But then this is not much different that Windoze anyway.

[afields]

Booorrrinnngg. Where are the new Powerbooks, the new Powermacs, the new everything???? @#$%^!!!!!!$#@$%% :(

[macridah]

tiger or whatever, I hope 10.4 will knock everyone off their socks.

When do you think they'll stop go up .1 (10.4, 10.5 ...) upgrades and go to 11 ?

What would be a good theme for OS XI

[Frisco]

Heh. Not true if you are to believe the discovery channel. They've got this weird series on pitting one animal against another in computer simulations.
Animal Face-off (http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/animalfaceoff/animalfaceoff.html)
The lion thrashed the tiger due to its mane which kept the tiger from delivering the 1000+ pounds of pressure it can deliver to snap the spinal cord. That and lions are taught how to fight not hunt but fight from birth. Tigers are natural stalkers. They hunt. Male lions have to fight for control of their pride. I still think the show was BS. Tigers have more girth behind them. They ARE bigger and stronger, esp a Amur tiger. Tiger paws alone can snap bones with a swipe. It would be an even match if nothing else. The show focused way too much on the killing methods rather then the total traits of the animals.

I agree. A tiger would take a lion any day of the week (one on one, of course).

[Stella]

You mean Apple software such as Safari, Mail etc etc won't run on old OSXs, however, 3rd party software normally does.

I don't know of many software products that specifically require OSX 10.3.

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

[flyfish29]

The wonderful thing about Tiger is
Tigers a wonderful thing.
The software is made out of unix
Their bottom is made out.....

:D


A (Double P) L E

For those of you with young kids you will get this last one more than others :eek:


So if Apple makes Tiger does that mean Microsoft makes Pooh?!?! :confused:

[Superdrive]

I'll purchase 10.4 as soon as I can order it. I have done that with each OS since 10.2. I love being able to show off the newest NON-WINDOWS features to every Windows user I know. I just hope I will be able to get it preinstalled on my Powerbook G5. One of those is going to be my next major Mac purchase...now only if one of them would come out...

[flyfish29]

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

Sooooo What you are saying is you want new software for free? The "new software" you speak of is I assume Safari updates, mail, etc. are becoming a part of the OS really and updates to that are just all lumped together as an OS, with individual updates provided to help with issues, etc.

[flyfish29]

Originally Posted by MacBoyX
What?
Microsoft does not update yearly.

Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2002
Windows Longhorn - 2006ish


You're forgetting:
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows ME

Not to menton that MS upgrades are twice what Apple's are.

We need to remember, M$ doesn not innovate either so they are simply taking others work and selling it as their own...Apple innovates with new things that have never been done and sells them rightfully so. If you don't want to upgrade every year take the advice of another poster and do it every two years...it is not like if you wait to upgrade to Panther you won't reap the benefits of Panther when you upgrade to Tiger. You vote with your dollars...so go vote for who you want to control your computer! :rolleyes:

[Frisco]

Maybe we should call it Liger (http://www.indiejournal.com/indiejournal/columns/tigersandcavelions.htm) !!! Now that's a big cat!

[bluefido]

Sooooo What you are saying is you want new software for free? The "new software" you speak of is I assume Safari updates, mail, etc. are becoming a part of the OS really and updates to that are just all lumped together as an OS, with individual updates provided to help with issues, etc.

I don't think he or she is necessarily saying that either. The statement was broad enough that it could have several meanings. For instance, it could mean he is happy that some Apple applications will not have the same upgrade life on 10.3 as in 10.4. Just a matter of perspective.

Personally, if Apple can sell it, who really cares... I know I am happy with my current OS (Panther) and the current version of iLife. I also know that I won't need a brand new version of Office. It may all seem old and outdated in a year, but technology goes too fast for my wallet. I understand the people that want the latest and greatest and am jealous of those who can actually afford it.

[BromineCalamity]

I dont have a problem with the name Tiger, but it sounds kinda 'final', like its the name Apple would give the last version of X as we know it.

I suggest 'Mongbeast'

[silvergunuk]

Yeah Silicon, like hairs gonna stop a tiger from winning :))

[nagromme]

Exactly. If you don't want the OS to improve, don't pay. What does it hurt you that others DO want to see Apple's rapid innovation continue?

Your "old" OS and your "old" apps that run on it will be just as good in two years as they are today--and that's true whether Apple has something new out or not--since you don't want it anyway.

[Doctor Q]

I thought we knew many months ago that Tiger was the expected next name in the series. I've been calling it that all along, and I must have heard it somewhere.

I'd like to know which iLife apps it will include.

And I wonder if the database-based-Finder has arrived.

I can't imagine any improvement that would change my life as much as Exposé did.

[fatfish]

Yeah, I've thought the same thing from time to time. Eventually the will get to 10.9, and then there's no place to go. OSX XP maybe. :D

err.. what about 10.10 after 10.9

[OutThere]

Tiger stripes on the X????? :eek:

Apple will come up with a nice look for it. It doesn't look too terrible in my quick and dirty mock up. Please ignore the furry edges - they were a whim and didn't turn out right. Unless you like them. ;)

[ZildjianKX]

Sooooo What you are saying is you want new software for free? The "new software" you speak of is I assume Safari updates, mail, etc. are becoming a part of the OS really and updates to that are just all lumped together as an OS, with individual updates provided to help with issues, etc.

You assume wrong. Many mac programs (non- Apple programs) are built for Panther or Jaguar, and aren't backwards compatible. This is hardly the case with windows... most programs run just fine in Windows 98 still. If you don't upgrade your mac OS, you're left behind.

[garybooberry]

Tiger 10.4 available June 3015!!!!

[fatfish]

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

Well that's kinda how it works, can't expect the new photoshop 8 or 9 or whatever to run on system 7.2.

[deepkid]

You assume wrong. Many mac programs (non- Apple programs) are built for Panther or Jaguar, and aren't backwards compatible. This is hardly the case with windows... most programs run just fine in Windows 98 still. If you don't upgrade your mac OS, you're left behind.

If it comes down to backwards compatibility or forward migration, I'll opt to pay for the new versions along with forward progress.

It's true that you're not forced to upgrade beyond what currently works for your computer/OS. If you need the features only available in software designed for a more recent OS, there's your answer.

Apple should avoid bloating OS X in order to go out of its way being backwards compatible. Keep it lean and smart.

[fatfish]

You assume wrong. Many mac programs (non- Apple programs) are built for Panther or Jaguar, and aren't backwards compatible. This is hardly the case with windows... most programs run just fine in Windows 98 still. If you don't upgrade your mac OS, you're left behind.

Big difference is there's a lot of core advances in each OSX release, not really the case with windows)

[mvc]

Apple will come up with a nice look for it. It doesn't look too terrible in my quick and dirty mock up. Please ignore the furry edges - they were a whim and didn't turn out right. Unless you like them. ;)

Looks like a throw rug made from an anorexic tiger :p

[SiliconAddict]

Yeah Silicon, like hairs gonna stop a tiger from winning :))


It will if the animal can't find the juncture to bite down on. Have you ever SEEN a lion's mane?!?

Lion Mane (http://images.fbrtech.com/dnew/Africa2000/Lion%20Male%20Black%20Mane%202.jpg)

There's so much fur in there when they are going at it its not like the lion's sitting around waiting for the tiger to find the right spot to bite down on.

[jesuscandle]

Apple will come up with a nice look for it. It doesn't look too terrible in my quick and dirty mock up. Please ignore the furry edges - they were a whim and didn't turn out right. Unless you like them. ;)

I'll go on record - I like the furry edges. I see what you mean about it not working quite right in the ps, but the idea of furry stuff should make a marketer drool. Imagine a box with faux fur on the outside.

(insert alpha males "Furry! But that won't make a G5 Powerbook run!")

(insert sensitive types "Come on, Apple is trying to appeal to women!")

Basically, I just a furry box would make people want to touch it. Making people want to touch your product can't be bad. Think ipod mini.

[SiliconAddict]

I say Apple splits the difference and goes with OS X: SaberTooth. As in SaberTooth Tiger which in reality I believe, I could be wrong, is more closely linked to the Lion family of big cats. In which case we are all happy :)

[nagromme]

Where do people get the idea that Apple upgrades yearly?

Since OS X 10.0 was released in early 2001, there have only been TWO paid upgrades of OS X: 10.2 and 10.3. (10.1 was free.) The time between paid versions was 17 months and 14 months. That schedule makes 10.4 likely in 2005 NOT 2004. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=66028&page=3#post774150)

And when I look around, the VAST majority of new 3rd-party apps do NOT need the newest OS X. If they do, then you can simply keep running an older version of that app until upgrading offers enough benefits to be worth it to you.

[Gymnut]

Well c'mon, all the good cat names have already been used. It's inevitable that by sticking with the feline theme Apple will have to use the more commonly known big cats.

[MacPearl]

By the time they ship a G5 PB, we'll be on a new cat.


Ho ho ho! I just couldn't agree more. I was thinking about a new cat too! :D

[MacPearl]

[Booga]

Here are some guesses/wishes to get us all started:
[...]

Faster (always)


Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that for most things 10.4 will not be faster than 10.3 on the same hardware. I think all the low-hanging fruit there has been picked, and any further speed increases will be offset by new features that slow the system down, creating no overall speed changes, or a slight slowdown.

10.0, being a brand new system, had lots of opportunity for optimization. But now that we're at 10.4, I think there's a lot less room, and people with a really old system may be forced to upgrade to use the new OS, unlike most past releases which just made them faster. Just my 2 cents.

[SiliconAddict]

Well c'mon, all the good cat names have already been used.

Not all. How about OS X: Ocelot

[byamabe]

I'd like to know which iLife apps it will include.


Probably none. iLife apps are bundled with new hardware.

[zenichi]

Large mammal populations theoretically are best conserved in landscapes where large protected areas are surrounded by buffer zones, connected by corridors, and integrated into a greater ecosystem. Multi-use buffer zones, including those containing complex agroforestry systems, are promoted as one strategy to provide both economic benefits to people and conservation benefits to wildlife.

hmmm...relatively useless information. Like this rumor.

[WinDoze9t8]

Ocelot orLYNX (my choice) is my preference. Tiger sounds a bit Pu**y to me.

I get my coat :D

[windowsblowsass]

its really kind of weird that only male ligers cant reproduce maybe theres some kind of point mutation in the testes determinig factor gene because thats what makes a male ne ways tiger would be a good name for 10.4

i can see it now its insanely grrrrreeeaat :D

[mvc]

I say Apple splits the difference and goes with OS X: SaberTooth. As in SaberTooth Tiger which in reality I believe, I could be wrong, is more closely linked to the Lion family of big cats. In which case we are all happy :)

Hmm, might not be good karma to name your latest OS after anything EXTINCT :rolleyes:

[unsigned]

People who are calling the name Tiger "unimaginative" are probably just relating to it's overuse. Apple has had in the past a tendancy towards the simple or even corny option for names, but in general they follow more conventional naming-industry strategies, which place as much emphasis on pronounciation as they do on meaning: PowerBook is a great name not just because it is a combination of two good attributes but because it has two strong consonants. It's used a lot as an example of the success of the naming industry.

Maybe in the portugese reporting there was a translation difficulty as well.

I would expect Apple to name 10.4, "Bengal", for it's stronger pronounciation. (And Bengal is more familiar to most Americans than "sumatran" or "amur". "Indochinese" is just too non-specific)

Another possibility is that they're not named not just after felines but after football teams with feline names, hence 10.5 will be, of course, Lion.

[stingerman]

You assume wrong. Many mac programs (non- Apple programs) are built for Panther or Jaguar, and aren't backwards compatible. This is hardly the case with windows... most programs run just fine in Windows 98 still. If you don't upgrade your mac OS, you're left behind.

That's because Windows core technologies change very little from release to release. Even the new .Net Framework relies on the older win32 API which is just a superset of Win32s/16 all the way from Windows 3.1 days. On the other hand, Panther was a major revision from Jaguar and a lot changed, including the core way the basic instruction sequence is handled in the ABI.

So if you want the latest and best OS X with very little compromises from release to release, than you will encourage Apple to stay the path. If you want Windows styled compatibility and be stuck with 25 year old OS technology and one woe after another, you can demand free upgrades and 100% compatibility.

[mvc]

Well c'mon, all the good cat names have already been used.

well, maybe it's time to call it a dog instead. Wait, hang on, maybe not… :rolleyes:

[Catfish_Man]

As I've already told Arn, there is a little bit more info on that article, not a lot, but still:

.The Internal build of Tiger is 8A85(the "A" means its still on Alpha)

. And that it uses Safari v133 as oposed to v125.1 that 10.3.3 uses

And that's all :)

A doesn't mean alpha. Apple's build numbering system is as follows (from past history, anyway):

8: Major version (10.3 was 7, 10.2 was 6, etc...)
A: Code fork (slightly complicated concept, but it's sure not beta, since there have been ones with 'D' here)
85: Build 85 of version 8 fork A

I'm not totally sure about the code fork thing, but it makes a good deal of sense, since you often get situations where the release of 10.x.x is, say, B, and you already have C builds of 10.x.y floating around at the same time.

[ionas]

10.0 should have been called "Housecat" or "Tabby"

you made my day.

[ryanw]

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

Yeah, kinda' scary. Expecially considering that with Microsoft Products you can justify the need for expensive licensing because the hardware is cheaper. But when we're paying more in OS upgrades ALONG WITH more expensive hardware than the Windows world enjoys, it's getting pretty crazy.

Don't get me wrong, I've thought every penny was worth the new features that the OS has brought, but it's wearing thin real quick. Now questions will start rasing like, "Should I wait to buy iLife `05 or wait for it to be bundled in OSX 10.4" or "Should I wait to buy OSX 10.4 and just wait a year for OSX 10.5" ??

I've found if you don't upgrade your powerbook to the latest OS when windows friends come to look at my powerbook I can't show them the latest 'expose' and other cool things. So I would imagine Apple is missing some advertising opportunities due to trying to squeeze more money out of it's already small customer base.

What next? iPod OS updates for $25 ?? Of course not because every happy iPod customer is free advertising. I'd like to see OSX 10.4 to be the cost of distribution of media and manuals. $129 if you want the books with it, $25 if you just want the media, $150 for media and free 1 year subscription of .Mac. It seems like .Mac subscribers should get free OS updates, oh well.... I will probably never be a .Mac account holder.

[rog]

I was hoping for "Chinese Civet Cat." Then if the OS detected you saying negative things about Apple on forums such as these, it would use those 73 fans in your G5 to blow SARS in your face.

[afields]

zzzzz...

[ryanw]

err.. what about 10.10 after 10.9

I sure hope not. That looks too much like HP-UX (blah)..

Why not OSXI 11.0 ?

Afterall, the OSX was not to infer a UNIX X11 interface, but rather to seporate it from old MacOS 5,6,7,8,9 ....

[rog]

Ocelot orLYNX (my choice) is my preference. Tiger sounds a bit Pu**y to me.



Better yet, why not "OSX P*ssy"? It will sell great to pubescent boys and lonely hetero male geeks everywhere!

[encro]

I think in Apple's mind, 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 are all major upgrades to the OS. So really, its like OSX version 1, version 2 and version 3, like MAc OS System 7, System 8 and System 9.
Something like 10.2.7 to 10.2.8 is an upgrade akin to System 9.1 to 9.2.

That's why in Apple's mind, they charge for an upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3 but not for 10.3.2 to 10.3.3. (like in the old days, they charged from System 8.5 to 9, but not from 9.1 to 9.2).

So in short, we already are on system 11, 12, and 13....

Thanks montecristo,

I would have got a little worked up if I had the chance to reply to Foxers initial comment. Lucky you got in first. Its time for peoples brains to move up from OS 9 me thinks ;)

[rDLr]

That's because Windows core technologies change very little from release to release. Even the new .Net Framework relies on the older win32 API which is just a superset of Win32s/16 all the way from Windows 3.1 days. On the other hand, Panther was a major revision from Jaguar and a lot changed, including the core way the basic instruction sequence is handled in the ABI.

So if you want the latest and best OS X with very little compromises from release to release, than you will encourage Apple to stay the path. If you want Windows styled compatibility and be stuck with 25 year old OS technology and one woe after another, you can demand free upgrades and 100% compatibility.

Isn't Mac OS X on top of one of the oldest operating systems? UNIX.
I guess the difference is Apple uses the strengths of the UNIX layer while putting new technologies on top of it.

[rDLr]

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

Yes it is free.
You just need to buy a new Mac.

[nightcap965]

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night.
What Immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand, dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder, and what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart begin to beat,
What dread hand? and what dread feet?

What the hammer? What the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears,
And water'd heaven with their tears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright,
In the forests of the night.
What Immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

-- William Blake

[JayBee]

Apple forces you to update... new software won't run on old OSes :)

The problem with this argument is that it's self defeatingly circular. Apple forces you to update because you want to run new software?

Let's follow this. You want to run new software. I don't know of any software that SPECIFICALLY requires 10.3 only, and doesn't have any older versions that won't run on 10.2 or 10.1/0, but let's assume I'm just missing them.

So, you want to run new software. Presumably this new software is either brand new or an upgrade to your existing software.

If it's an upgrade there are two possibilities - the developers are too lazy to make it backwards compatible, or there is some specific feature of 10.3 (in this instance) that the new version of their software exploits (Safari is a prime example of the latter). In the former case, it's the software developer that's forcing you to upgrade, and your beef is with them. Note that even if that software developer is Apple, your beef is with the app team, NOT the OS team. There's nothing intrinsic about the OS that forces developers to make their apps non-backwards compatible.

In the latter case it's your own desire that's making you upgrade. Software developer X has spotted a use for feature Y of Panther. If you want that feature, you need to buy panther, because it's simply not there in Jaguar. That's hardly being forced to do anything, short of arguing that paying for Jaguar features entitles you to all subsequent developments for free.

In either case, nobody's forcing you to do anything. If you want to run the "latest features", then that's your choice. A new OS doesn't suddenly break your current one.

A similar argument holds for new apps. What's the sense in expecting (for example) an app that extends Font Book to be released on Jaguar? The old argument that "PS 7 runs as well in win 95 as it does in XP" just shows me how spurious the upgrade path for windows really is. How much would buying win95 and then win XP cost you? About $600 (new cost for both). And for what? For no real gains?

Basically, your argument doesn't match your conclusion. Your conclusion is "evil apple is bleeding me dry for nothing". Your argument says "Year on year apple is adding new features to its OS, which I can opt into if I choose to run the latest software"

The idea that Windows's upgrade path is comparable is laughable. Backwards compatibility to the extent displayed by Windows says one thing to me - it says that they haven't managed to stabilise the system and that each "version" is simply a bug fix. What was the last "new feature" that Windows introduced? Seriously?

Windows has been stuck at version 4 for 9 years (and will continue for at least another 2). We get a new OS version each year, after OS X took two years to stabilise.

Yeah, someone's got a gun at my head forcing me to upgrade... :rolleyes:

[macdong]

Yoda this is an imitation of, Yes

it should be "an imitation of Yoda this is"

[Jerry Fritschle]

Lynx would be a good choice, because it would be a good play on words in this Internet age.

In fact, if it's a real speedy system, it would be called Hyperlynx! :D

[autrefois]

A couple people have mentioned after 10.9 going to 10.10. I think this would make mathematicians cringe, since 10.10 is the same as 10.1. It would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. :)

It's bad enough that the current version is called "OS X 10.3.3". Or occasionally I see things like "OS X v10.3.3." It is NOT version 10.3.3 of OS X!! It is OS 10.3.3 or possibly OS X.3.3, but not OS X 10.3.3. (sigh)

In any case, Tiger doesn't sound good to me: not original enough. But by the time it comes out, I'll have a Powerbook G5 and will be too happy to complain! :D

[The Ancients]

You're forgetting:
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows ME

Not to menton that MS upgrades are twice what Apple's are.

I think everyone concerned would like to forget Windows ME.

[WM.]

I think it's funny that a company that can release some software they they call 'state of the art' every year. I only upgraded to Panther because I was fooled by the 150+ new features. I say i use maybe 10 of those 150 features are useable. I want a complete list of what these so called new features are.
Ask and ye shall receive. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/) That's been there since October at least. Click on each of the New Feature Categories if you want to see every single one (the Everyone category doesn't include all of them).

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post since IMHO you're a borderline troll.

WM

[WM.]

Probably none. iLife apps are bundled with new hardware.
They are bundled with OS updates as well, or at least they have been. Panther came/comes with iPhoto 2.0, iMovie 3.0.3, and iTunes 4.0.1.

WM

[fatfish]

Yeah, kinda' scary. Expecially considering that with Microsoft Products you can justify the need for expensive licensing because the hardware is cheaper. But when we're paying more in OS upgrades ALONG WITH more expensive hardware than the Windows world enjoys, it's getting pretty crazy.

The Hardware isn't cheaper for one, there is actually very little difference once spec is taken into account. Hey! remember virginia tech, that decision was made on the back of costing as much as anything else. But more importantly the argument is entirely spurious - microsoft don't sell the hardware.


Don't get me wrong, I've thought every penny was worth the new features that the OS has brought, but it's wearing thin real quick. Now questions will start rasing like, "Should I wait to buy iLife `05 or wait for it to be bundled in OSX 10.4" or "Should I wait to buy OSX 10.4 and just wait a year for OSX 10.5" ??

These are questions we all have to ask, always have, even have to ask them about TV's, cars and video cameras.


I've found if you don't upgrade your powerbook to the latest OS when windows friends come to look at my powerbook I can't show them the latest 'expose' and other cool things. So I would imagine Apple is missing some advertising opportunities due to trying to squeeze more money out of it's already small customer base.

If that's what you buy software for I pity you. But put some logic up against what you say, you could hardly show your friends the "latest expose and other cool things, if Apple didn't keep providing it.


What next? iPod OS updates for $25 ?? Of course not because every happy iPod customer is free advertising. I'd like to see OSX 10.4 to be the cost of distribution of media and manuals. $129 if you want the books with it, $25 if you just want the media, $150 for media and free 1 year subscription of .Mac. It seems like .Mac subscribers should get free OS updates, oh well.... I will probably never be a .Mac account holder.

I'm afraid it would soon put apple out of business if they charged you what you wanted to pay. Can't say I know of too many succesful businesses that work on that basis. There is this little consideration of covering costs and makeing a reasonable profit, that all businesses have to think about, however inconvenient it might be for you who just wants to show his friends the latest stuff.

[roy_dan]

I would be impressed if Apple used an albino tiger stripe theme on the X. Albino tigers are more rare yet exotic and thus more desirable, just like the Mac.

[jade]

Ask and ye shall receive. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/) That's been there since October at least. Click on each of the New Feature Categories if you want to see every single one (the Everyone category doesn't include all of them).

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post since IMHO you're a borderline troll.

WM

Depending on how you use your computer, you might not find use in thos features. A bunch of them seem to be targeted at the enterprise or portable users...if that doesn't describe you, maybe you don't want to spend you $129. If I was running jaguar, and didn't have PCs to network, I would have just stayed there and skipped the upgrade.

Another problem with all of these upgrades is that the new Apple software doesn't work with the old OS: the new ilife only works with recent versions of jag, ichat av, safari, FCE2, FCP etc..so if you want Apple software you need to pony up $129

[jade]

The Hardware isn't cheaper for one, there is actually very little difference once spec is taken into account. Hey! remember virginia tech, that decision was made on the back of costing as much as anything else. But more importantly the argument is entirely spurious - microsoft don't sell the hardware.




High end hardware isn't Apple's pricing problem..its the stuff in the middle for average people. VT is a highend user.......


Apple's consumer line up is expensive. And there really aren't any options for you in the "sweet spots" So yes Apple hardware and software upgrades work out to be more expensive for the average user, becasue Apple doesn't have any middle-class machines.

[Frisco]

I would be impressed if Apple used an albino tiger stripe theme on the X. Albino tigers are more rare yet exotic and thus more desirable, just like the Mac.

Yes the albino tiger is the most beautiful animal on earth, just above the orange bengal tiger!

[iMeowbot]

I have a hard time believing "Tiger" is the final name.

I phoned Cupertino to suggest "OS X Meowbot," but Steve never returned my call. He was probably too overwhelmed and awed by the sheer power of that image.

[fatfish]

Another problem with all of these upgrades is that the new Apple software doesn't work with the old OS: the new ilife only works with recent versions of jag, ichat av, safari, FCE2, FCP etc..so if you want Apple software you need to pony up $129

No and the car would have never taken over from the horse and cart if they hadn't invested in gas stations. Point is many of the features of these new apps rely on the improvements built into the OS.

You have an option.

[mvc]

Lynx would be a good choice, because it would be a good play on words in this Internet age.

Except everyone would think it was Linux. Get the new OSX 10.4 Lynx - say it fast five times. :p

[fatfish]

A couple people have mentioned after 10.9 going to 10.10. I think this would make mathematicians cringe, since 10.10 is the same as 10.1. It would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. :)

Depends if you view the "." as a decimal point, it obviously isn't, its a seperator, most people with any common sense would realise that. I don't suggest you have no common sense, I suspect you are merely being argumentative.

[kansast]

I think calling it Tiger is just a bad idea... Tigers are far to generic and... immature sounding, in my opinion

Agreed, my first thought was 'how lame'. I think maybe it's time to get rid of the whole feline thing anyway :-)

[Awimoway]

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright...

A little Taleswapper never hurt no one. :)

[eddyg]

And I wonder if the database-based-Finder has arrived.


I'd like to see a Finder/Filesystem that look and felt a bit like a clearcase filesystem with version control on each file and also partly database so you can do instant lookups of all files of a particular type, and instant views of disk usage and distribution.

However the trick would be to do this in a safe manner without risking the integrity of the filesystem. Maybe it should sit on the side, so that if it gets corrupted it can simply be rebuilt from the real data. A bit like the existing search.

So maybe for the version control it could simply be a matter of hooking RCS into the Finder so that the user can nominate a file or set of files to be under version control, those files would then have some pretty graphic showing the different versions available, some sort of expanding thingy.

Cheers, Edward.

[fatfish]

High end hardware isn't Apple's pricing problem..its the stuff in the middle for average people. VT is a highend user.......


Apple's consumer line up is expensive. And there really aren't any options for you in the "sweet spots" So yes Apple hardware and software upgrades work out to be more expensive for the average user, becasue Apple doesn't have any middle-class machines.

I assume your phrase "middle-class machines" to be freudient, and that you assume mac users to be middle to upper class....... what dross!

I will agree that apple doesn't produce any naff machines to compete with the dell bottom end stuff, but I can't agree that they don't provide any mid-range stuff. I also don't agree that this mid-range stuff (Apple's low-end stuff) is any more expensive, unless you conveniently ignore the specs.

I am undoubtedly an apple supporter, but I am not oblivious to the fact that many of my friends and business associates have PC's in the £ 600 - £ 2000 range that they have very little to complain about when it comes to features and functionality. This is not really any different so far as pricing goes when compared with apple's.

The sub £ 500 PC is another animal, yes apple have nothing to compete.

[WM.]

Depending on how you use your computer, you might not find use in thos features. A bunch of them seem to be targeted at the enterprise or portable users...if that doesn't describe you, maybe you don't want to spend you $129.
Quite true. But 1macker1's point was specifically that Apple had somehow lured him (her?) into spending $129 for "150 new features" without telling him what they were. First, that tells me that 1macker1 isn't too bright (or is a borderline troll, like I said), because he spent $130 without going beyond the marketing slogan to find out what he was actually getting for all that green. Secondly, the premise of the complaint is false anyway, because there is a list easily available on the site.
If I was running jaguar, and didn't have PCs to network, I would have just stayed there and skipped the upgrade.

Another problem with all of these upgrades is that the new Apple software doesn't work with the old OS: the new ilife only works with recent versions of jag, ichat av, safari, FCE2, FCP etc..so if you want Apple software you need to pony up $129
I can't think of a single piece of Apple software that you have to pay for on Panther that you can't also get for 10.2.8. That will probably change with the new version of Shake, but that'll be six months after Panther came out, and I think it will be reasonable to require it by then (especially considering that Shake costs about 30 times more than the Panther upgrade--$129 is a drop in the bucket).

WM

[Gymnut]

Not all. How about OS X: Ocelot

C'mon...I just think Ocelot would be a step back from Apple's tradition of using "muscle" cats. I think there's a logical reason why Puma, Jaguar, Cheetah, and Panther were selected. But then again, what's in a code-name..

[fatfish]

Just out of interest can someone tell me, how much it would cost to legally upgrade 5 PC's with windows, compared with 5 macs with OSX, I suspect the family licensing costs with windows is much more costly, and lets face it, who only has 1 machine.

[eric_n_dfw]

Re: the Safari 1.2 on OS X 10.3 only debate

I just wish Apple would at least fix bugs in Safari 1.0 for OS 10.2 users.

I'm a 10.3 user both at home at work, but my web developer coworkers are pretty pissed that their pages that work in 1.2 don't in 1.0 and that OS 10.2 users have no way of getting those pages other than using another browser.

I agree that new features that are OS dependant shouldn't have to be migrated down, but even MS supported IE 5 on Windows for a while after IE 6 came out with patches and whatnot.

(And don't try to say that it's the web designer's fault, the browser has bug's. Their pages are clean and work in all other modern browsers)

[obeygiant]

why dont they name it, garfield, or morris, or the [hello kitty] operating system?

[mvc]

OSX 10.4 Cougar?

[jade]

I assume your phrase "middle-class machines" to be freudient, and that you assume mac users to be middle to upper class....... what dross!

I will agree that apple doesn't produce any naff machines to compete with the dell bottom end stuff, but I can't agree that they don't provide any mid-range stuff. I also don't agree that this mid-range stuff (Apple's low-end stuff) is any more expensive, unless you conveniently ignore the specs.

I am undoubtedly an apple supporter, but I am not oblivious to the fact that many of my friends and business associates have PC's in the £ 600 - £ 2000 range that they have very little to complain about when it comes to features and functionality. This is not really any different so far as pricing goes when compared with apple's.

The sub £ 500 PC is another animal, yes apple have nothing to compete.

just the Apple ones in the middle have half as much hard drive space, RAM, vram as the ones at the sme price. So half as much value is just as good as not having anything there.

And middle class machines have nothing to do with whether or not you are middle or upper class. The demographics of Apple users have no effect of my opinion of the Apple consumer lineup. (But I guess if you live in Brazil you need to be pretty rich to get an Apple, at least that is what I hear from Brazillians.

As noted in many threads the imacs and emacs are a pretty poor value HARDWARE-wise when compared with the PCs in their price class...not even factoring in the processor. And most likely, your friends with the PCs in that price range, if they bought them in the past 6 months or so do have bigger hard drives, better video cards, and faster RAM then the comparative imacs and emacs.

The bottom (sub $500 or $600)..Apple can leave to Dell, emachines and Gateway.

[sonicbaz]

OS X Large *****

[TheArchpadre]

First off: I recognize that this is pointless and silly and that codenames don't really mean a thing.

[Pause. Selah.]

Woohoo! I was hoping they'd use "Tiger" eventually! I only hope that this is the last of the cat names. Not because I'm sick of it, but because only the greatest of the cat-named systems deserves to be named after the greatest of big cats. :D

Which does lead into an interesting question: what will be the next codename sequence? Any other animal would be a downgrade, since all the other impressive predators (that I can think of) hunt in packs, making them less impressive on an individual basis. (Not to mention lacking the style and grace of the big cats.)

Okay, you've wasted enough time reading this. Shoo.

[jade]

First off: I recognize that this is pointless and silly and that codenames don't really mean a thing.

[Pause. Selah.]

Woohoo! I was hoping they'd use "Tiger" eventually! I only hope that this is the last of the cat names. Not because I'm sick of it, but because only the greatest of the cat-named systems deserves to be named after the greatest of big cats. :D

Which does lead into an interesting question: what will be the next codename sequence? Any other animal would be a downgrade, since all the other impressive predators (that I can think of) hunt in packs, making them less impressive on an individual basis. (Not to mention lacking the style and grace of the big cats.)

Okay, you've wasted enough time reading this. Shoo.


Dinosaurs?


Take that back: fish there are the bottom feeders, the small ones, the ones that eat all of them, and the predators...there are enough good ones here to make you hungry

OS 11 tuna
OS 11 salmon
OS 11 Sea Bass
OS 11 Tigershark
OS 11 Jaws!

[johnsondaz]

I think people that are complaining about the OS cost and updates are missing what they are getting for their money. The fact that we get a new OS every year is amazing. Mac OS X is constantly being improved and refined and we get to reap the benefits of this hard work.

Those who compare Apple to MS need to check the retail cost of the Windows OS a little closer. For XP Pro (the only real XP OS, as Home is to stripped down for my taste) it is $299.00.

I am relatively new to the Apple world, but I am very happy with the OS, the hardware and the updates. I can't wait to see 10.4 at WWDC this year and 10.5 the year after. Apple doesn't have to worry about my $129.00 a year, I will gladly part with it if the features are there.

All I can say is keep them coming Apple and if I can make a request give me more interoperability with a windows domain and native NTFS read/write support.

[autrefois]

Depends if you view the "." as a decimal point, it obviously isn't, its a seperator, most people with any common sense would realise that. I don't suggest you have no common sense, I suspect you are merely being argumentative.

Merely joking, not being argumentative. (I was hoping the smiley would give me away.) Since I mentioned 10.3.3 in the next paragraph of my post, obviously I know it doesn't truly represent a decimal.

I'm also not holding my breath for a Powerbook G5 soon, and I don't really care if 10.4 is called Tiger, Kangaroo, Warthog, etc. I'm somewhat partial to Mac OS X Warthog, though. :D

[AidenShaw]

For XP Pro (the only real XP OS, as Home is to stripped down for my taste) it is $299.00.


Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95

[scottwat]

I think its fantastic that Apple is keeping up on the 1 year timeframe. Lets face it there is alot to be innovated on and to bring out radical innovations every years is phenominal. And the push that Apple puts on its consumers to upgrade is a great thing. This makes developers feel more comfortable in the fact that if they develop for the latest version that most the user base should be up to date. And I love that they say you have to be upto date to use some of their new software.
Anyways, About the names, tiger is ok, its kind of cheesy, doesn't hold the mystique of Panther. I like the suggestion someone came up with earlier to call it BATTLECAT. Secure the hell out of it. Get filevault super secure. Tighten everything down, upgrade the encryption as much as possible. Boost the use of smartcards, ibuttons, rfid keys, fingerprint readers, iris scanners, breathalyzers or whatever means of security to add to login and keychain usage and mail signatures etc. Go after the server and secure workstation market. When all these companies roll over the old NT goats push a new G5 with a super secure but easy to use OS, like Battlecat. Take a queue from OpenBSD and market the hell out of its strength and security. Run adds that display all the names of M$ viruses with the users that were hit in a switcher style. Oh and include someone that looks like grandma cussing out here machine for whatever virus just came out in the last 15 or 20 minutes.

[joeconvert]

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95


You know what? Buy it. Use it. Love it. Just don't come crying to us when it sucks!

[macdong]

Dinosaurs?


Take that back: fish there are the bottom feeders, the small ones, the ones that eat all of them, and the predators...there are enough good ones here to make you hungry

OS 11 tuna
OS 11 salmon
OS 11 Sea Bass
OS 11 Tigershark
OS 11 Jaws!

do you by any chance work in a sushi restaurant?? :)

[tribalogical]

Dinosaurs?


Take that back: fish there are the bottom feeders, the small ones, the ones that eat all of them, and the predators...there are enough good ones here to make you hungry

OS 11 tuna
OS 11 salmon
OS 11 Sea Bass
OS 11 Tigershark
OS 11 Jaws!

Naw... I think the next series will be birds, man... tacky, evocative "great bird" names... so you can "soar with the new OS..."

And I think they'll stick with the "X" (cos, hasn't it been referred to more often as "Oh-Ess-Ex" rather than "Oh-Ess-Ten"...? So perhaps it will look something like this:

OS X 11.0 Hawk
OS X 11.1 Falcon
OS X 11.2 Eagle
OS X 11.3 Condor
...etc...

(So we'd say something like: "Oh-Ess-Ex Eleven Condor"...). Has a nice ring to it, doncha think? Getting awfully long though... ;)

gawd... don't I have anything better to do?? :D :D :D

peace,

tribalogical

[singletrack]

Re: the Safari 1.2 on OS X 10.3 only debate

I just wish Apple would at least fix bugs in Safari 1.0 for OS 10.2 users.



Amen. Everyone should upgrade to 10.3 as I think it's worth the money but not everyone has. Safari 1.0 has enough bugs in it and is still widely enough used that it causes real headaches for a web designer.

Worse, you can't run Safari 1.0 on 10.3 at the same time as 1.2 so you have to keep an old Mac or OS install around for testing.

[macdong]

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95

well Mac OS X can be had for $0.00 with a computer purchase.

[ITR 81]

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95

First consider the fact most folks won't buy a new computer just to use the next MS OS..and most of them just pirate it anyway...I know I did in the past.

XP Pro at $299 is still more then OSX's home package with multi-licenses.

I get OSX for $69 bucks a yr and office for $129 because I still do classes in school and will probably be working for gov discount soon.

[macdong]

Amen. Everyone should upgrade to 10.3 as I think it's worth the money but not everyone has. Safari 1.0 has enough bugs in it and is still widely enough used that it causes real headaches for a web designer.

Worse, you can't run Safari 1.0 on 10.3 at the same time as 1.2 so you have to keep an old Mac or OS install around for testing.

i agree with this. Safari update should be made available for all versions of Mac OS X. it creates much inconsistency.

[fBaran]

I want that Home on iPod feature.

[BWhaler]

10.0 should have been called "Housecat" or "Tabby"

LOL. Very funny.

[Doctor Q]

function macRumorMaker()
{
if (Monday) print "New PowerMacs Tomorrow!!!";
}I love it, mvc! Did you license it to arn yet?

If you consider it open source, I offer this improvement, to avoid depending on a global variable:

function macRumorMaker()
{
if ( today().dayoftheweek == Monday ) print "New PowerMacs Tomorrow!!!";
}

[singletrack]

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95

It's not that tricky to find OS X at a discount price. eg. Amazon $112

I'm sure there are cheaper.

[switchedanhappy]

Maybe tehy won't call it tiger. they trademarked afew other cats. I like lynx. sounds mysterious and cool... :cool:

edit: just realised lynx sounds alot like linux. (sortuv) wonder if anyone would sue apple? porbly not...

[macdong]

Maybe tehy won't call it tiger. they trademarked afew other cats. I like lynx. sounds mysterious and cool... :cool:

edit: just realised lynx sounds alot like linux. (sortuv) wonder if anyone would sue apple? porbly not...

i don't think you can sue over the similar sounding of two trade marks.
but then again, this world has become somewhat weird.

[adamjay]

my girlfriend and i named our animals after alcohol "jaeger, stoli.. etc." the problem with that is we started running out of names and no one wants to be called "old grand dad". how about adopting an ebonics approach (or should i spell it eBonics) to code-naming the OS, and bring that inner-city demo into the apple world.

in other words, i think "Ten Point Foe Beotch!" would be the best name. and thats how i will refer to it regardless.

[SiliconAddict]

C'mon...I just think Ocelot would be a step back from Apple's tradition of using "muscle" cats.


And which box actually has a Panther, Cheetah, or Jaguar on the front other then the fur pattern. Ocelot just sounds a lot sexier then tiger but the tiger "looks" better then an Ocelot. How about an Ocger ;)

[fatbarstard]

Some much wasted time over a silly name!!! :mad:

Tiger / Lynx / Polecat ... I mean who really cares as long as it gives us a better computing experience... 10.4 sounds fine to me as long as it delivers...

Next subject please!!! :rolleyes:

[Applexilef]

Seeing how Apple trademarks all these names and stuff, what happens when they trademark something (a name, etc.) that they end up not using? Do they still own the rights to it? Is it a monthly fee that they pay for keeping the trademark?

Can I make something and use one of Apple's trademark names just because they didn't use it?. If not, can I just go to the patent office and start trademarking all these words just because I want to?

[jouster]

It's bad enough that the current version is called "OS X 10.3.3". Or occasionally I see things like "OS X v10.3.3." It is NOT version 10.3.3 of OS X!! It is OS 10.3.3 or possibly OS X.3.3, but not OS X 10.3.3. (sigh)


Except when Apple says it is, of course:

[SiliconAddict]

Some much wasted time over a silly name!!! :mad:

Tiger / Lynx / Polecat ... I mean who really cares as long as it gives us a better computing experience... 10.4 sounds fine to me as long as it delivers...

Next subject please!!! :rolleyes:

Dude. Breath a little. This is all that is known about 10.4. There is nothing wrong in discussing the name.

Such self righteous indignation over a thread on the name of an OS. If you don't like it skip the thread. Easy no? :rolleyes:

[NETknightX]

"Tiger"?

But Java 1.5 is codenamed "Tiger"...

And do any of you remember reading this at The Register:
Link (http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:tJo9xoeRRPwJ:www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/11493.html+Microsoft+tiger+beta++OS&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

[ghulands]

.. is that apple will ship it every year, not every 1,2,3,4,5 maybe 6 years. Longhorn is long off. we will be at 10.5 before it ships, possibly 10.6

looks like apple is turning into microsoft with the yearly $129 OS upgrade...

[nsb3000]

Ya..Tiger just does not do it for. I think that having a cool sounding name is more important than staying within the cat family...If they called it something like "Zebra" or "Hammerhead", nobody out side of Mac Zealots (That’s us guys!) would bat an eye.

[iMeowbot]

i don't think you can sue over the similar sounding of two trade marks.
but then again, this world has become somewhat weird.

Oh yeah, it certainly has. Seen http://www.lin---s.com/ lately?

(that points to a 6MB PDF at the moment, so the gist is that Microsoft have successfully stopped Lindows from selling their products in the Benelux region.)

[Shrike_Priest]

screw Tiger, I want OSX Liger

http://www.scumpa.com/~art/king-richards-sep02/liger-med.jpg

Now, that's a big effing cat ;)

[xtekdiver]

So, I'll say it again. I stood in line at the Apple store and gladly purchased my Panther upgrade and I will do it again. $129 is worth it. This OS is rock solid and a real pleasure to work with. I would be offended if M$ wanted me to pay that much for their piece of crap. XP is still unstable (though better than 2000), and most of what M$ thinks is so great doesn't really work properly out of the box. They wait 4 years to release a new OS and still can't get it right. Bring that T - I - double Gu - Er! Anyone up for some bounce'n?

[zot72]

I'm not sure I see it as Apple's style to name anything after a sterile cross-breed that doesn't generally occur in nature (even if that's only true for certain pairings).

They're just trademarking other cat names to throw us off; the real code-name for 10.4 is:
Mac OS X Dicon Radish

[nagromme]

People are still saying Apple has a paid upgrade every year. It's still not true.

OS X has been out since early 2001 and only had 2 paid upgrades since. Keeping up the same timing puts the next one in 2005.

Or opt for the "every other" upgrade plan I choose for most apps, and you're already set until 2006 at least.

I for one have found good value in every OS X upgrade so far. I want my 10.4 :)

[tex210]

We do know something about Ten Four!
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/spokeninterface/
Here kitty kitty...
the names are supposed to be internal anyway, and 10.4 is appropriate for a computer that listens to you.

I just can't wait till 11. I just know a.i. will be prevalent. We've given them eye's to see the world, ears to listen and voices to sing.

[zot72]

Finder
- "smart folders" (including true meta-data built into the filesystem)

I could swear that the filesystem already had true meta-data, once upon a time...

[iomar]

That sound good.. i don't care what apple calls them so long us they keep updating my operating system.

[kenaustus]

On one board (can't remember which) there was a note that 10.4 would include substantial optimization for the G5 - to the point where there would be a lot of the code that had dual coding - one for 32 bit and one for 64 bit - with your install being dependent on which chip you had.

Level of optimization was being pushed as hard as possible, may exceeding a 75% level of a full 64 bit operating system.

The benefit was significantly faster performance, hopefully in the 20 - 50% range for some functions.

If this is true the G5 owners will be buying on day one and there will probably be a lot of features for 32 bit chip users.

On the name: maybe it is going to be the year of the tiger in Asia - would make a lot of sense to coordinate that!

$129? You bet. Compare Apple to MS and then figure out the money they are putting into continual development of the OS. A part of the money from each computer sold will be allocated to development, but it is the people like us who get the credit card out when necessary that really motivates Apple to continue aggressive development.

For me: it's nothing but G5's in the future and the credit card is out whenever needed for the OS upgrade.

[elgruga]

I think they should name the OS after a British brand of Gravy mix called:

BISTO


The rumor mill is at a low ebb, my friends, a low ebb......

[Docrjm]

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95
So then to get this bargain price you have to buy a whole new system! Great bargain :eek:

[Skiniftz]

And in other news, OSX 10.5 (Tabby) development has started. 10.6 will be known as "Tortoiseshell" and 10.7 as "Feral".

Rumours are that other names under consideration are "Tom" and "Berry".

[macdong]

And in other news, OSX 10.5 (Tabby) development has started. 10.6 will be known as "Tortoiseshell" and 10.7 as "Feral".

Rumours are that other name under consideration are "Tom" and "Berry".

Tom and 'J'erry

[Skiniftz]

Tom and 'J'erry
"Jerry" isn't a cat. I was paraphrasing "Tom & Jerry" with "Berry" (as in "Halle") deliberately. Have you not head about Catwoman?

[tex210]

edit: edit...

Skiniftz, thanks for helping me find my new signature!

[Rye Brye]

Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2002
Windows Longhorn - 2006ish


you forgot windows ME - wasn't that in 2000 (sure, nobody used it or uses it anymore...)

[Trimix]

Or, as Steve calls it, "tie-jher."

- still on 10.2.8 and waiting for 10.4

I was waiting for that - very good :D

[Whotheheck]

To upgrade from Windows ME (or 98) to Windows XP costs $99.

To upgrade from Jaguar to Panther costs $129.

Which is the better value? An upgrade from Windows ME is huge, so the cost is well worth it. An upgrade from 98 to ME wasn't much but at least it only cost $49.

The $300 cost people are saying is for the full version of Windows XP Professional. How much is the full version of Panther? I don't know because Apple doesn't sell it!

I've had Windows XP since it came out and it has NEVER crashed on me! I've had Panther for 2 months and it crashed on me once.

I don't want to come across as a Apple hater; I like OS X better than XP. I just want to clear some things up because I feel like you guys are being very unfair to Microsoft.

[elgruga]

I've had Windows XP since it came out and it has NEVER crashed on me! I've had Panther for 2 months and it crashed on me once.

I don't want to come across as a Apple hater; I like OS X better than XP. I just want to clear some things up because I feel like you guys are being very unfair to Microsoft.

Bollocks

[Knox]

The $300 cost people are saying is for the full version of Windows XP Professional. How much is the full version of Panther? I don't know because Apple doesn't sell it!

Sure they do, what they don't sell is upgrades (other than the upgrades for recent purchasers). That $129 is for the full version of Panther, regardless of whether you had OS 9 or Jaguar.

[JFreak]

unfair to microsoft? hardly. it's quite the opposite.

apple can be sure every apple-brand computer has an os license available (and can therefore sell upgrades only), because apple can assume apple computers are bought for running macintosh in it. microsoft just cannot assume every pc built is bought for running windows, so it is just plain wrong for microsoft forcing all major pc makers to sell windows oem licenses with every pc built, because many of those will be bought with linux in mind. linux users will have to buy windows even if they will never use it, and that's unfair.

microsoft thinks everyone pirates their software. in my perfectly legal work pc (that has win xp) the "my computer" help-menu has an item that asks: "is this copy of windows legal?" thank god macintosh never asks that but instead smiles to me.

[elgruga]

I feel like you guys are being very unfair to Microsoft.

Isnt there a filter for this kind of post?

I dont know how to stop laughing - unfair to M$? Is that actually possible?

If you can be unfair to M$, then perhaps there are parallel worlds out there.

What a load of BOLLOCKS.

[elgruga]

Why would you want Windows? Only those who are nuts or stupid or being co-erced in some fashion use Windows.

There is treatment for all of these conditions, and sympathy too.

You cant LIKE windows - that would be the same as liking auto accidents, or earthquakes, or something.

Why am I getting pissed at this? I dont know, I am just SICK AND TIRED of the M$ thing.

I really wish Gates and his ilk would just ****** OFF.

"If all the people in the world paid one penny for each email, then we can get rid of spam."
He actually believes that *****! And we're supposed to say 'Thanks King Billy, you are a true genius, where would computing be without you?'


six billion cents per day is $360,000,000 per day.
Thats 2.5 Billion per week
Thats $130 billion a year.

You can see what Bill thinks about, cant you? And this guy thinks that we are UNFAIR to M$?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

God, what a rant. Sorry everyone, I just lose it with these trolls.

As Roger Ebert said:

Since any reasonable person would choose a Mac over a PC, Apple's market
share does provide us with an accurate reading of the percentage of
reasonable people in our society.

[FatSweatyChimp]

blah blah blah....

Are you Steve Jobs' son or something? Get a grip :rolleyes:

[robbieduncan]

To upgrade from Windows ME (or 98) to Windows XP costs $99.

To upgrade from Jaguar to Panther costs $129.

Which is the better value? An upgrade from Windows ME is huge, so the cost is well worth it. An upgrade from 98 to ME wasn't much but at least it only cost $49.

The $300 cost people are saying is for the full version of Windows XP Professional. How much is the full version of Panther? I don't know because Apple doesn't sell it!

You have this the wrong way round. A full version of Panther costs $129. There is no upgrade pricing. The upgrade versions of MS software can only be installed if a previous OS version is found (so if you wipe your hard drive you have to install Win 98/ME and then use the upgrade to get XP). For $129 your Panther install CD will install the OS on a blank hard drive, or upgrade a previous OS version.

[FatSweatyChimp]

The upgrade versions of MS software can only be installed if a previous OS version is found (so if you wipe your hard drive you have to install Win 98/ME and then use the upgrade to get XP).


No, all you have to do is put your 98/ME cd in when it asks for proof of you using an earlier version of Windows. No need to install it.

[Whotheheck]

Sure they do, what they don't sell is upgrades (other than the upgrades for recent purchasers). That $129 is for the full version of Panther, regardless of whether you had OS 9 or Jaguar.

try installing panther on a partition that does not already have a Mac OS installed on it. Mine doesn't let me. I don't think I have a weird version of it either.

[Whotheheck]

... microsoft just cannot assume every pc built is bought for running windows, so it is just plain wrong for microsoft forcing all major pc makers to sell windows oem licenses with every pc built, because many of those will be bought with linux in mind. linux users will have to buy windows even if they will never use it, and that's unfair.

being able to buy a PC with linux at wall-Mart isn't "major"? Who would want to buy a PC without Windows anyway? if you are pc savvy enough to use linux, you're probably building your own PC or buying a PC from a computer store like PC Club in which case they let you choose your OS. I don't see anyone going to BestBuy to get a Toshiba to run red hat linux or anything.

[Whotheheck]

Isnt there a filter for this kind of post?

I dont know how to stop laughing - unfair to M$? Is that actually possible?

If you can be unfair to M$, then perhaps there are parallel worlds out there.

What a load of BOLLOCKS.


:eek: So is it against board policy to post anything even remotly positive about microsoft? I'm not an Apple hater... hell, I'm posting this from my trusty little powerbook! :)

posts where people reply by saying bollocks should be the ones filtered out. Please at least have something to add to the conversation.

[robbieduncan]

No, all you have to do is put your 98/ME cd in when it asks for proof of you using an earlier version of Windows. No need to install it.

My mistake. I used to have a 98SE upgrade CD that would only install if you had a previous installation of 95 or 98. It offered no chance to simply instert another CD to prove you owned it.

[Whotheheck]

Why would you want Windows?

Being a hard-core gamer, the # and quality of games between the 2 platforms don't even come close. Also, a lot of webpages don't work very well, if at all, under Mac. Sure, that's a sign of bad programming but there is nothing else we can do about it. :(

Even with that, I still use my mac more than my pc. actually, unless it's playing games or going to windows only website, I do everything else on my mac.

[Whotheheck]

My mistake. I used to have a 98SE upgrade CD that would only install if you had a previous installation of 95 or 98. It offered no chance to simply instert another CD to prove you owned it.

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until Windows XP that would let you do that. If you have a Windows 98SE upgrade from Windows 98 1st edition, you could actually use that to install Windows XP! If you remember correctly, that upgrade disc was only $19! :D


So anyway... err... how's that tiger purring? :D

[grouse]

But I'm thinking that Exon/Esso/Standard Oil might have a problem with Apple putting a Tiger in their Tank.

Of course there is a wider problem here.

If at any point they go for the fastest animal on earth, Cheetah, I think, then they'll have to dump the Cat thing and go with types of fish or something. There are rich pickings from Finding Nemo, like the blue fish which keeps forgetting release dates for hardware. The Shark who charges $499 for a small walkman. The Clown fish who keeps getting sued.

Meant in jest Steve, go go go Tiger. :)

[rdowns]

You won't believe what we have in our bag of tricks.

[slowtreme]

You won't believe what we have in our bag of tricks.You think Felix might be copywrited? At some point if they stay with cats they will have to go for fringe names. Tiger and Lion are both pretty BLAH. Bobcat, Cougar*, Lynx*, Leopard*, will all be good marketing names. At some point you just run out of real Cat names and have to make stuff up.

There are 36 species of wild cats (http://www.cathouse-fcc.org/catsinfo.html) but amny are the same Genera and share similar names.

*Already applied for TM by apple. Bobcat may be trademark of Bobcat Equip.

[johnnyjibbs]

blah blah blah

Why am I getting pissed at this? I dont know, I am just SICK AND TIRED of the M$ thing...

...I really wish Gates and his ilk would just ****** OFF....

...God, what a rant. Sorry everyone, I just lose it with these trolls...

blah blah blah

Um, this is not a very nice attitude. I have Windows on my home PC and it's not that bad. I prefer Mac OS X, which is my main computer (the one I bought for myself) is a PowerBook.

Sure, Microsoft makes a lot of average software and has done a lot to stagnate the market, but I hat it when people are anti-Microsoft and Bill Gates just because they are successful. Apple does its own share of monopolising on the Mac platform but no-one cares because it only makes up 2-5% market share.

We all have our own reasons to dislike Microsoft, but to hate them "just because they're Microsoft" is not a valid reason in my opinion.

Back on topic, I can't wait for 10.4 Tiger and I'm looking forward to whatever new features they introduce.

[JFreak]

Who would want to buy a PC without Windows anyway?

for example a corporation that wants to run linux as desktop os. then this firm just orders hundreds of HP boxes each having windows oem license for nothing. and microsoft gets paid. that's just not right.

clones are for home use. serious companies (that has tens or hundreds of computers) want to have as few hardware configs as possible. and usually that means buying windows oem license with each box.

[robbieduncan]

If at any point they go for the fastest animal on earth, Cheetah, I think, then they'll have to dump the Cat thing and go with types of fish or something.

We've alreadt had Cheetah. 10.0 was code-named Cheetah, which was strange as it was really slow!

[AidenShaw]

$144.95

So then to get this bargain price you have to buy a whole new system! Great bargain :eek:

You don't need to buy a system - if you buy a disk you qualify for the OEM discount.

[AidenShaw]

for example a corporation that wants to run linux as desktop os. then this firm just orders hundreds of HP boxes each having windows oem license for nothing. and microsoft gets paid. that's just not right.


Here are two links to business PCs with Linux available pre-installed.

http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/CS1Page2.aspx?br=6&c=us&cs=555&fm=10330&l=en&s=biz

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/12454-64287-89301.html


In addition, if you're placing an order for hundreds of systems all the manufacturers are pretty flexible. You could get it with what you want, without any O/S at all, or at such a discount you don't care if Bill is getting a tiny piece of the pie.

[SiliconAddict]

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until Windows XP that would let you do that. D


Nope. It was obviously a funky version of Windows installer or something because I've been doing media varification since Windows 95 spending 3 minutes swapping Windows 3.11 floppies. Its possible Windows 98SE got away from this but I know I've done the same thing in Windows NT and 2000 as well.

[SiliconAddict]

well Mac OS X can be had for $0.00 with a computer purchase.

And do you actually believe that the price of the OS isn’t rolled into the price of the total system!?!? If not I have a bridge in CA to sell you cheap.

[MOFS]

The wonderful thing about Tiger is
Tigers a wonderful thing.
The software is made out of unix
Their bottom is made out.....

:D


A (Double P) L E

For those of you with young kids you will get this last one more than others :eek:


So if Apple makes Tiger does that mean Microsoft makes Pooh?!?! :confused:

Just as long as bouncing (apps) is NOT what Tiger does best, I'm fine with it! :D

[eric_n_dfw]

10.4 will be codenamed "MadCat" and will support a new model PowerMac in a completely new case design. The designers were told to think, "agressive" ;)

http://www.robotoys.com/MechA.gif

[eric_n_dfw]

I think everyone concerned would like to forget Windows ME.Heck - I think even Microsoft would like to forget about ME! :eek:

[suzerain]

I didn't think the Sun demo went nearly far enough. Things may have changed in more recent builds but from the demo I saw I remember a desertscape rocky background picture right?
...
However, coming back to that desktop. What would be really cool is if you could place icons and windows in the distance, behind that rocky outcrop just to the left of the cactus. Because we remember things spatially, even if the icon was infinitessimally small it wouldn't matter because we would be more likely to remember where we put it. We could keep things strewn about our 3d landscape desktops and still know where things were. Much more could be stored this way.
Think about it like this. Imagine you're looking for your cheesegrater. In front of you you have a dozen shelves each with a dozen objects on of roughly equal size. There's your cheesegrater, a shoe, a telephone, a cuddly toy etc etc.
Picking out your chessegrater isn't too difficult when you only have a few items to choose from but the more items you have the harder your task becomes as you have to scan all the roughly equally sized objects.
Now forget the grid like shelf structure.
Where's your cheesegrater?
Second cupboard on the right in the kitchen, bottom shelf behind the plates.
Easy!
I think Sun dropped the ball with that one and someone needs to pick it up and place it in the foreground.

I dunno about this whole spatial thing. I think it just muddles computers as a concept, and makes them "harder" to use. I don't know about you, but I think the spatial world sucks ass, and I am constantly losing things.

Now, let me explain my overly crass statement more thoughtfully: I am constantly walking around annoyed that the 'spatial' world is sooo limited. What if, using your example, I am out walking in the park, and decide to stop at the store and buy some cheese and, there, out in the middle of the world, I decide. "Man, I'd really like to grate some cheese..."

Now my cheese grater, as you correctly pointed out, is back at my apartment, in the kitchen, in the cupboard behind the plates. How is this helpful to me when I am in the park? Then I have to walk back to my apartment, up the stairs...etc. and so on.

What I want instead is a computer that drops the whole spatial metaphor, and allows me to cross-reference things with my own categories (OK...here is a javascript snippet I wrote...it is part of my "code samples" group, and part of my "ACME Corporation Web site" group. Then, I'd like to computer to keep track of what I am working on..."Oh, he's working on that other ACME Corporation Web site document...I'll add his JS sample to the "possible related items" list.

In short, the computer ought to be able to say "Aha! He has some cheese. Perhaps he'll need a cheese grater, or a cheese slicer, or a cracker..." Well, you get the idea.

This interface need not be in 3D.

I say all this, because I have trained people to use computers, and "folders" are the hardest thing for them to pick up, as far as I can tell. They are like "what is a 'folder'?", and they never know "where" they put anything. I think this is because they don't expect something that is inherently non-spatial to behave as spatial.

[allpar]

Haberdasher, Check again the tiger dwarfs the lion in size and would kill it in a fight. The lion just sits about doing bugger all all day whilst it sends the females out to kill. It's no match, the Tiger would have a Lion. :)

Isn't a female lion a lion? So a lion could be the brave fighter that does all the work for the lazy male lion.

[allpar]

but I hat it when people are anti-Microsoft and Bill Gates just because they are successful. Apple does its own share of monopolising on the Mac platform but no-one cares because it only makes up 2-5% market share.

Microsoft is hated because they use dirty tricks to put other companies out of business. They destoryed the superior DR-DOS by having their software give "warnings" that it was not compatible with DR-DOS (even though it was). They destroyed WordPerfect and Lotus by withholding Windows from them until the last minute so they'd be the only ones with office software for Windows. They have been convicingly accused of stealing software source code from Stac (remember disk compression utilities?) and other companies. They have also demanded that PC makers pay them royalties for every computer sold, including those that did not have Windows on them! They subsidize the XBox (sells at a tremendous loss) trying to get a monopoly there, and they gave away Internet Explorer to destroy Netscape. I could go on for hours... they also fund SCO, if you care about Linux.

People hate Microsoft because Microsoft routinely engages in criminal behavior - a fact that was upheld in Federal and European courts. They did not even try to follow their various consent agreements. And they appear to have committed perjury, repeatedly, during the US antitrust trial. (Nobody went to jail, oddly - let's you or me try that!).

Nobody hates Toyota because Toyota is successful. Nobody hated John Paul Getty for being rich. People hate Bill Gates and Microsoft for their criminal behavior.

[allpar]

What if, using your example, I am out walking in the park, and decide to stop at the store and buy some cheese and, there, out in the middle of the world, I decide. "Man, I'd really like to grate some cheese..." Now my cheese grater, as you correctly pointed out, is back at my apartment, in the kitchen, in the cupboard behind the plates.

If you had a G5, the cheese grater would be right on your desk :)

Sorry, couldn't resist. And my wife loves the new case design. Personally, if I could save $100, I'd get plain beige with cheap removable sides...but I guess I like it, too. [moving dangerously off the subject] I just wish there was room for two optical drives and a zip drive...!

[MacBoyX]

You're forgetting:
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows ME

Not to menton that MS upgrades are twice what Apple's are.


You are completely right... perhaps I blocked those from my memory because they stunk. At that rate let's also not forget the Windows 95 B fiasco. Which is due to be repeated by them charging for XP SP2.

macboyX

[sushi]

Heck - I think even Microsoft would like to forget about ME! :eek:
I prefer to think of Winders Me as Windows You...as in on your machine and not mine! :D

Sushi

[Les Kern]

I think calling it Tiger is just a bad idea... Tigers are far to generic and... immature sounding, in my opinion

They can call it "Booger" for all I care. What does it do and how much does it cost?

[whooleytoo]

Doesn't "10.4 Tiger" sound like something you'd hear over CB radio?

I thought, after all the rumours about incorporating features of Windows and Linux, they'd go for 10.4 Copycat.

[edenwaith]

My bets are on either Tiger or Lion. They seem to be the next logical choices since they are running out of large cats, or will just start repeating themselves (panther, cougar, mountain lion, etc.).

[engelbot]

Whatever else ends up happening, I hope the commercial uses Survivor's song "i of the Tiger."

[manu chao]

Also, a lot of webpages don't work very well, if at all, under Mac. Sure, that's a sign of bad programming but there is nothing else we can do about it. :(

Even with that, I still use my mac more than my pc. actually, unless it's playing games or going to windows only website, I do everything else on my mac.

It's funny, I know that is true that there probably quite a number of webpages out there which don't work properly on a Mac, but over last five years or so I've run into only two (!) webpages which required me to use Windows. And that was back in in old days of OS 9.
There might be some GUI oddities here or there, or you have to use Safari instead of Mozilla occasionally (only Safari uses Java 1.4, Mozilla uses only Java 1.3, since the Java 1.4 API is writtten in Cocoa and very poorly documented and Mozilla is written in Carbon).

[DrunkPrimate]

What about liger (male father is lion female mother is a tiger) if they ever port OSX to x86
the mixture of the power of a lion at climbing trees while it can also swim in water like a tiger plus you could make some fun anime jokes with the Liger ZERO SX from athe anime Zoids or some funny parody switcher commericals... hey im an otaku since the age of 5 i cant help it

but anyway ligers are scary they are nearly 3 times larger and stronger then tigers or lions due to the fact they dont have the pitueterry gland needed to stop growth on the tiger side. Majority of the time they are born sterille but rare occasions they are not and can then breed with other lions, tigers or other non sterile ligers or tigons (the mix of tiger father and female lion)

anyway thats my thoughts FLAME AWAY AND BRING IT ON

[DrunkPrimate]

you cant use lynx for a name becasue its alreayd copywrighted by the GPL program LYNX (the HTML Commandline browser) its pretty cool browser too
sorry to double post so quick in the same thread

[Zaty]

Since "Tiger" is thought to be shipped with Safari 2.0, it would be interesting to learn if Mail, iSync and iCal move to 2.0 as well and if so what the new features of those versions are.