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arn
Jun 19, 2002, 02:09 AM
Damon Wright's weblog (http://mac-os.blogspot.com/) gives us some information about his involvement in "Real People" Apple Ads in which he is featured (http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/damonwright.html). Of interest, he notes a second part of the campaign which will involve celebritiesL

On a day's notice, they shipped me to Boston to hang out with what turned out to be the second to the last round of 25 of us "Joe Regulars" who were to be shot on film by Mr. Morris himself. Apparently, the next round would be celebraties. We hung out with one, but I still can't say who. I have a picture of myself with him. His arm's around me. What a coup.

Morris filmed each of us for somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour and a half. In between film role change, they took about a hundred stills of us. Keep in mind, as this is happening, and the hot lights are beating down on us, we have no idea what this is for.

This reflects and confirms GNYC's report about this ad campaign back in May (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/05/20020508225804.shtml). Per that report, future spots may include Lou Reed, Spike Lee, Bela Fleck as well as other Grammy artists.

beno
Jun 19, 2002, 05:46 AM
ouch, damon wright better not read what The Register has to say about him...

And what are we to make of 'Damon Wright' [parental caution advised]: an immaculately manicured (always a bad sign), post-dot.com Manson Family cultist distinguished by a moustache that weaves a seamless and sinister 'w' between his nose and his upper lip. What the 'w' means, only Damon himself knows.

http://www.theregus.com/content/39/25261.html

shakespeare
Jun 19, 2002, 06:25 AM
I hope Bill Clinton is in one of the celebrity ads. I hear he uses Macs. And he's pretty cool.

Chris Fam
Jun 19, 2002, 06:45 AM
Also here http://www.lickmysweaty.com/truth:mad:

synergy
Jun 19, 2002, 08:33 AM
That sweaty guy sounds like someone did shove an iPod up his arse.

Man talk about someone with nothing better to do.
Oh its a parody. Yeah right. With all the vile hatred thrown there it sure does not look like it. Wonder when the Apple legal letter will come?

Mr. Anderson
Jun 19, 2002, 08:38 AM
I never really liked the 'real' people ads, they didn't really do it for me. I'm hoping they get some very cool celebs and industry leaders to do it, similar to their 'Think Different' campaign - the people they used in the posters are icons of today's society.

Backtothemac
Jun 19, 2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by shakespeare
I hope Bill Clinton is in one of the celebrity ads. I hear he uses Macs. And he's pretty cool.

Staffers at the White house haver long said that he never used Macs. Now, Larua Bush has one, as do Jenna and Barbara. There how is that rumor.

Now, the ads.

I personally think that it would be neat to see celebz interact with the ordinary people. Like the DJ girl and say, a music celeb. They could both talk about the Mac, and what it has done for them. The pro could discuss the TiBook, and the consumer the iBook.

They need to get Nikki Sixx and Donna Di Arico. They are huge, huge Mac users. They had a great interview with Nikki and Donna on TechTV during Comdex. It was great. Here they are interviewing them about PC stuff, and they are talking about their iPods, and Airport, etc. It was awesome.

PGant
Jun 19, 2002, 09:18 AM
Just to set the record straight, I don't have sea-life sounds on my iPod as his site suggests.

More often than not, I'm rocking to the swinging sounds of Zoldak Flargbakken, master of the Lithuanian bladder pipes (with apologies and homage to Grettir Asmundarson at TinyPineapple.com).

arn
Jun 19, 2002, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by PGant
Just to set the record straight, I don't have sea-life sounds on my iPod as his site suggests.

More often than not, I'm rocking to the swinging sounds of Zoldak Flargbakken, master of the Lithuanian bladder pipes (with apologies and homage to Grettir Asmundarson at TinyPineapple.com).

Mr Gant... welcome to Macrumors! :)

I would not take any ad-criticisms personally...

arn

PGant
Jun 19, 2002, 09:44 AM
Do you mean Mr. Sweaty Guy's site? Nah! How could I take that sort of thing personally? Apart from the needless vulgarities, I thought it was kinda funny (hmm...maybe I shouldn't admit that).

Seriously though...the worst thing that can happen to an ad campaign is that people ignore it or don't notice it at all. Based on my cursory glance at the posts on this board, it seems pretty clear that this need not be a concern for this campaign. And remember the adage about parody: it's the highest form of flattery.

PG

arn
Jun 19, 2002, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by PGant
Do you mean Mr. Sweaty Guy's site? Nah! How could I take that sort of thing personally? Apart from the needless vulgarities, I thought it was kinda funny (hmm...maybe I shouldn't admit that).

Seriously though...the worst thing that can happen to an ad campaign is that people ignore it or don't notice it at all.

;)

See http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/06/20020610025349.shtml for the full range of commentary on the new ads from those on this site.

arn

bobindashadows
Jun 19, 2002, 10:27 AM
Lol anyone else notice they were stupid enough to put the Apple Copyright on it? I'm surprised Apple hasn't pummeled them into oblivion yet... wonder what that guy whose name starts with F thinks about the site....

Welcome, Mr. Gant, to macrumors! Its pretty cool that we have someone from the commercials on the forums :-p Unless, of course you are someone impersonating Patrick Gant, just like someone does with Steve every couple days or so :p

lordsinforge
Jun 19, 2002, 11:18 AM
Seriously, this guy has to realize that Apple could sue the crap out of him in a New York minute. Copyright violations, I mean the moron just took all of the apple site and stuck it on his server.

But I think Apple will likely handle this quietly, I mean there is no need to draw attention to the a**hole now is there.

I am waiting for some cracker that has a fondness for macs to jack the guys site though.

LS

gandalf55
Jun 19, 2002, 11:53 AM
we all know Shaq, etc. are iPod fans, so it would be cool to see them do something too... but i like something where an ordinary person is talking with a celeb about how kick ass Apple technology is compared to Win.

BT or Moby with someone starting out making music
George Lucas or Speilberg with a film student
etc...

dont know if thats strategically correct to do, cause its not really about "switch"

But they could do Pixar, Disney, etc.

bobindashadows
Jun 19, 2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by lordsinforge
Seriously, this guy has to realize that Apple could sue the crap out of him in a New York minute. Copyright violations, I mean the moron just took all of the apple site and stuck it on his server.

But I think Apple will likely handle this quietly, I mean there is no need to draw attention to the a**hole now is there.

I am waiting for some cracker that has a fondness for macs to jack the guys site though.

LS

I wrote an email to apple's copyright agent as soon as i was done at the site lol

damon
Jun 19, 2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by beno
ouch, damon wright better not read what The Register has to say about him...

And what are we to make of 'Damon Wright' [parental caution advised]: an immaculately manicured (always a bad sign), post-dot.com Manson Family cultist distinguished by a moustache that weaves a seamless and sinister 'w' between his nose and his upper lip. What the 'w' means, only Damon himself knows.

http://www.theregus.com/content/39/25261.html

You know, I think this stuff is too funny. Frankly, I haven't seen the thing on TV yet so I'm not sure how to react to it. I laughed a LOT when I read the register. If you can't tell in the ad, I'm not actually <i>old</i> enough to be a manson family cultist, but I'll take immaculately manicured any day. When I saw the sweaty guy's work... well, it was a lot of work and he should get some credit for that. There's certainly no accounting for taste. ;)

Rower_CPU
Jun 19, 2002, 04:06 PM
Wow!

Patrick and Damon both posting to the forums...crazy!

Welcome guys, I think you both have great attitudes about this stuff.

Glad to have you guys out there as spokespeople for Apple.:)

AaronAdams
Jun 19, 2002, 05:38 PM
Well, might as well make it three of us :)

I've been reading here for a while and I figured it was time I said something. So, um, how's fame treating you guys? ;)

Aaron
---
http://homepage.mac.com/adamsa/

Rower_CPU
Jun 19, 2002, 05:57 PM
Thanks for posting Aaron!

Great job on your web page. It's right up there with all of Apple's verbiage on the subject.

So how long have all of you been lurking?

damon
Jun 19, 2002, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by AaronAdams
Well, might as well make it three of us :)

I've been reading here for a while and I figured it was time I said something. So, um, how's fame treating you guys? ;)

Aaron
---
http://homepage.mac.com/adamsa/

AARON! I KNEW you were here somewhere! Man, you look GREAT on the big screen!! And fame? Did you know I'm a post-dot.com Manson Family cultist? Apparently I didn't tell you guys that in Boston. Love the site. I'm gonna link it right now.

damon

BlueDjinn
Jun 19, 2002, 07:00 PM
Greetings to all three of you guys! (As well as everyone else...)

BTW--in case you have no idea what AAPLTalk is, this may be familiar to some of you:

http://www.aapltalk.com/shootouts/

Anyway, I wanted to say a special congrats to Aaron, Damon and Patrick, as well as to alert y'all to Yet Another Message Board Discussion Of The Switch Campaign (aka YAMBDOTSC):

http://tech-report.com/news_reply.x/3706/0/

...wherein hard-core MSFT/Intel/AMD/hardware folks have been chomping at the bit on Apple's latest ad campaign (over 500 comments to date).

Just wanted to say howdy and to welcome you to the Light Side of The Force :)

--BlueDjinn

arn
Jun 19, 2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by AaronAdams
Well, might as well make it three of us :)

I've been reading here for a while and I figured it was time I said something. So, um, how's fame treating you guys? ;)


heh... :)

now that computer programmer's (Haxton) gotta be around here somewhere.... ;)

I wrote this to Damon privately... but basically, I really like the ads... and feel they will be very effective. I know there are obviously varying opinions on this topic... but those are my 2cents.

arn

AaronAdams
Jun 19, 2002, 08:25 PM
Hi there Damon, Rower_CPU and BlueDjinn. I'm glad you liked my page. I spent a good hunk of my weekend writing it up. I haven't been able to put much time into making it pretty, and there are still about ten thousand other things I'd like to say.

And thank you for the compliment Damon :) Personally, I cringe a little bit every time I see myself and I wish they had a better picture to use for the print ads. Oh well :) I learned last night that seeing yourself on TV has a way of interrupting an, um, intimate moment with your special someone ;) I'm embarrassed to admit that, but it was funny.

As for The Register, I read their review of the ad campaign and rolled my eyes. Must everyone be a critic? And especially nasty critics at that. Oh my God, real people may not be pretty! How horrible! Even worse, they may have quirks or be slightly eccentric. Damn them!

I've been watching this forum for a long while, and I've posted to a few others. All the conversations about the ads are exasperating. Everyone has an opinion, which is fine, but sometimes I wonder where people get some of their crazy thoughts. Oh well, Apple likes me and that's what counts. I hope we're selling a lot of computers for them. They've treated me well and I hope they ask more of me in the future. Maybe an appearance at MacWorld? ;)

So far, my life has changed very little because of these ads. Every now and then mom or grandma or a friend will call on the phone to say they saw me. I was recognized at the Cincinnati Apple Store - there are two pictures of it on my page. The manager came out to meet me and the staff was pretty psyched. I didn't even have to show my ID when I paid for my camera :) That's been my only chance to be famous. I haven't been recognized anywhere else. I don't think Dayton has a big Apple following.

But, who knows what the next few months will bring. Like I said on my page, I'd like to become more active in the big Apple scheme of things. I've just gotta figure out how.

Aaron

PGant
Jun 19, 2002, 10:07 PM
Hey Aaron and Damon. Nice to see everyone again! Gee this board is turning into *the* hangout place for the Switch folks, thanks to the write up on Damon's excellent blog. A few more of us and this will be a full fledged family reunion! I think I saw Mark F's post (it was on another board), so perhaps he's next to join in the fun.

I've quite enjoyed reading Damon and Aaron's posts on their thoughts and experiences. I've thought about writing about my own experience as the token Canadian in the ensemble, but I haven't been able to find the time. But I will. Really.

I too found the experience to be rather dizzying, and I can't say enough about how well I've been treated by Apple and Chiat\Day. Ironlically enough, I have yet to see my own ad playing on TV. Apparently it ran during the Stanley Cup finals but I missed it (I'm a Senators fan, so my hockey season ended a while back). Has anyone else seen it?

In other news...I couldn't help but notice that Mr. Sweaty Palms' site (or whatever his name is) has been pulled down, apparently at the behest of Apple's legal department. Cool, isn't it? Someone makes fun of me and Apple shows up at their door and smacks them around! I guess it's true what they say: buying a Mac is about *alot* more than buying a computer. I sure could have used these guys back in grade school!

PG

bobindashadows
Jun 19, 2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by PGant
In other news...I couldn't help but notice that Mr. Sweaty Palms' site (or whatever his name is) has been pulled down, apparently at the behest of Apple's legal department. Cool, isn't it? Someone makes fun of me and Apple shows up at their door and smacks them around! I guess it's true what they say: buying a Mac is about *alot* more than buying a computer. I sure could have used these guys back in grade school!

PG

Hey Mr. Gant, welcome to the forums! I'm pretty newbish myself because i just lurk and when i think of something to post, several others have beat me to it! Ah well *shakes hand* I wish Apple would come rushing to me when people make fun of me, because i just graduated from junior high! :D I'm ahead of my time ;) I program :D

I'm not sure if I was the first to squeal to Apple Legal, i doubt it, but i tried! They really coulda gotten their ass sued off if Apple wanted though, they linked directly to several images on Apple's servers and also put Apple's copyright on the bottom. :rolleyes:

Again, welcome to the forums, and try not to get too addicted ;) I need a fix every 15 minutes or so :p

eunuchs
Jun 19, 2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by PGant
In other news...I couldn't help but notice that Mr. Sweaty Palms' site (or whatever his name is) has been pulled down, apparently at the behest of Apple's legal department.Tee Hee! Now he's saying Apple should send him a TiBook to win him over. What a llama!

(Wish I'd thought of that)... :D

damon
Jun 19, 2002, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by PGant
Hey Aaron and Damon. Nice to see everyone again! Gee this board is turning into *the* hangout place for the Switch folks, thanks to the write up on Damon's excellent blog. A few more of us and this will be a full fledged family reunion! I think I saw Mark F's post (it was on another board), so perhaps he's next to join in the fun.

I've quite enjoyed reading Damon and Aaron's posts on their thoughts and experiences. I've thought about writing about my own experience as the token Canadian in the ensemble, but I haven't been able to find the time. But I will. Really.

I too found the experience to be rather dizzying, and I can't say enough about how well I've been treated by Apple and Chiat\Day. Ironlically enough, I have yet to see my own ad playing on TV. Apparently it ran during the Stanley Cup finals but I missed it (I'm a Senators fan, so my hockey season ended a while back). Has anyone else seen it?

In other news...I couldn't help but notice that Mr. Sweaty Palms' site (or whatever his name is) has been pulled down, apparently at the behest of Apple's legal department. Cool, isn't it? Someone makes fun of me and Apple shows up at their door and smacks them around! I guess it's true what they say: buying a Mac is about *alot* more than buying a computer. I sure could have used these guys back in grade school!

PG

Patrick... Did Apple call you today? I got a call from our young friend this afternoon as I was driving home from the back-cracker. I asked her whether they'd seen the Sweaty guy's site and how long it took them to take action on something like that. Her response? "Um, yes. We're working on that." Apparently, and I say this with the greatest deference to the Apple site team, they hear about this kind of stuff pretty fast exactly the same way we do: she actually mentioned macrumors.com on the phone to me. How's that for props? So perhaps, in some small fashion, it's all the comments tossed around that got the plug pulled. We've done our bit for king and country. Time to call it a day. :D

blakespot
Jun 19, 2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by AaronAdams
Well, might as well make it three of us :)

I've been reading here for a while and I figured it was time I said something. So, um, how's fame treating you guys? ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/adamsa/
Welcome to MacRumors!

Your story (homepage) sounds not far from mine. Is started out on a TI-99/4A and have gone through some others since (http://www.blakespot.com/list). It is hard to deny the finesse of OS X and today's Mac in general, indeed.

I recently augmented my DP G4 800 with a new iBook 700 and I am liking it as much as your accout would predict. Good stuff, OS X.

Again, welcome and glad to have you here.


blakespot

bobindashadows
Jun 19, 2002, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by damon


Patrick... Did Apple call you today? I got a call from our young friend this afternoon as I was driving home from the back-cracker. I asked her whether they'd seen the Sweaty guy's site and how long it took them to take action on something like that. Her response? "Um, yes. We're working on that." Apparently, and I say this with the greatest deference to the Apple site team, they hear about this kind of stuff pretty fast exactly the same way we do: she actually mentioned macrumors.com on the phone to me. How's that for props? So perhaps, in some small fashion, it's all the comments tossed around that got the plug pulled. We've done our bit for king and country. Time to call it a day. :D

Hey Damon, welcome! Hehe that's pretty cool, maybe you can hook me up, i could use a job at apple ;) Ok, maybe i should wait till i can get working papers :lol: I'm starting to wonder if I got to Apple Legal first, since I mentioned macrumors.com in my email to them! :D They didn't send me an email though, i don't think, its hard to tell when you can't check your email without getting less than 30 at a time :rolleyes: Again, welcome to macrumors!

detroitsuperfly
Jun 19, 2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by bobindashadows



I'm not sure if I was the first to squeal to Apple Legal, i doubt it, but i tried! They really coulda gotten their ass sued off if Apple wanted though, they linked directly to several images on Apple's servers and also put Apple's copyright on the bottom. :rolleyes:

Again, welcome to the forums, and try not to get too addicted ;) I need a fix every 15 minutes or so :p

I can't believe you idiots are such whiners! BooHoo!! They insulted my choice of computer!! It's as if you idiots had your race or religion insulted! If you didn't have a board up your @ss you'd realize that the site was pretty damn funny! I am a Mac user NOT a worshipper in the house of Apple. You losers sound like the Taliban of computers. "All non-believers are infidels and must die". I have news for you, parody is protected speech under the 1st amendment. Even with the logos. All your whining wont change that. My advice to you is to get a life, find a significant other, find religion or ANYTHING that will take your unhealthy obsession off of a consumer product. Your God, Steven Jobs is laughing at your devotion...all the way to his Swiss bank.

bobindashadows
Jun 20, 2002, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by detroitsuperfly


I can't believe you idiots are such whiners! BooHoo!! They insulted my choice of computer!! It's as if you idiots had your race or religion insulted! If you didn't have a board up your @ss you'd realize that the site was pretty damn funny! I am a Mac user NOT a worshipper in the house of Apple. You losers sound like the Taliban of computers. "All non-believers are infidels and must die". I have news for you, parody is protected speech under the 1st amendment. Even with the logos. All your whining wont change that. My advice to you is to get a life, find a significant other, find religion or ANYTHING that will take your unhealthy obsession of of a consumer product. Your God, Steven Jobs is laughing at your devotion...all the way to his Swiss bank.
Actually, i was laughing my ass off when i first opened it (no offense guys!) and saw the "********** a guy...." and as well as a few other places. Parody is supported but linking directly to the images are not, as well as putting the copyright at the bottom. Hey i support a good laugh but i also support Apple as well. Some of the stuff was just plain slander though. I don't care if you think I'm an obsessee - because i am :D You think that i wouldn't be proud of that?

eunuchs
Jun 20, 2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by detroitsuperfly
I can't believe you idiots are such whiners! BooHoo!! They insulted my choice of computer!! It's as if you idiots had your race or religion insulted! If you didn't have a board up your @ss you'd realize that the site was pretty damn funny! I am a Mac user NOT a worshipper in the house of Apple. You losers sound like the Taliban of computers. "All non-believers are infidels and must die". I have news for you, parody is protected speech under the 1st amendment. Even with the logos. All your whining wont change that. My advice to you is to get a life, find a significant other, find religion or ANYTHING that will take your unhealthy obsession off of a consumer product. Your God, Steven Jobs is laughing at your devotion...all the way to his Swiss bank. Buddy, for a guy with "PCs are feces" as his sig, you need to chill out. Parody and humour are protected speech. Blatant copying and false copyrights are another. For a good example of parody see MicroSith (http://www.microsith.com/). For a bad example, see... well, it's not there any more is it? Probably a reason for that...

Chris Fam
Jun 20, 2002, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by eunuchs
Tee Hee! Now he's saying Apple should send him a TiBook to win him over. What a llama!

(Wish I'd thought of that)... :D

I hope Apple will give me a special discount on a TiBook model that I recently wish to buy. I've been saving my hard-earned money long enough for a new Mac though ... really not bear to spend it on a computer that's so expensive, but then again, I really need that power and portability to get my job done... apple pls...

Simon Liquid
Jun 20, 2002, 12:35 AM
I know who they should get. Michael Dell.

Chris Fam
Jun 20, 2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Simon Liquid
I know who they should get. Michael Dell.

Why?:confused:

Simon Liquid
Jun 20, 2002, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Chris Fam


Sorry, but who's Michael Dell anyway? the CEO of Dell?

Yeah, and he has a sick obsession with Apple in general and with Steve Jobs in particular. We all know what's sitting on his desk though.

Chris Fam
Jun 20, 2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Simon Liquid


Yeah, and he has a sick obsession with Apple in general and with Steve Jobs in particular. We all know what's sitting on his desk though.

I see, I just saw his PC here http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/corporate/michael_006_comp.htm

hehe..

Simon Liquid
Jun 20, 2002, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Chris Fam


I see, I just saw his PC here http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/corporate/michael_006_comp.htm

hehe..

No, no. Not that desk, the other one. In the closet. You think he wants people to know?

Chris Fam
Jun 20, 2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Simon Liquid


No, no. Not that desk, the other one. In the closet. You think he wants people to know?

Ahhh.. sorry about that :p

britboy
Jun 20, 2002, 06:19 AM
Talk about amazing! We now have three TV stars on the forums: Aaron, Damon and PGant (no particular order). Nice to see you guys here. I'm just curious though, why macrumors.com? Had you heard about it from someone, knew of it before and just decided to join in, some other reason? Thanks for the posts though, they've been interesting and amusing to read. It's nice to see the attitude from the other side of the fence.

Nice touch with the "as seen on tv" arn :)

clonenode
Jun 20, 2002, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by damon


Patrick... Did Apple call you today? I got a call from our young friend this afternoon as I was driving home from the back-cracker. I asked her whether they'd seen the Sweaty guy's site and how long it took them to take action on something like that. Her response? "Um, yes. We're working on that." Apparently, and I say this with the greatest deference to the Apple site team, they hear about this kind of stuff pretty fast exactly the same way we do: she actually mentioned macrumors.com on the phone to me. How's that for props? So perhaps, in some small fashion, it's all the comments tossed around that got the plug pulled. We've done our bit for king and country. Time to call it a day. :D

Apple has eyes EVERYWHERE!

beno
Jun 20, 2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by britboy
Talk about amazing! We now have three TV stars on the forums: Aaron, Damon and PGant (no particular order). Nice to see you guys here...


Yawn. I'm just waiting for Liza Richardson to show up...:D

BlueDjinn
Jun 20, 2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by beno


Yawn. I'm just waiting for Liza Richardson to show up...:D

Beno--

I believe you can find her right here:

http://www.kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/kcrw.pl?show_code=td&tmplt_type=Everything

--BlueDjinn

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
I never really liked the 'real' people ads, they didn't really do it for me. I'm hoping they get some very cool celebs and industry leaders to do it, similar to their 'Think Different' campaign - the people they used in the posters are icons of today's society.

only problem with those ads were that of course some (or all?) of those folks are dead and so apple is kinda taking advantage of their public image and using them to make money. which, if the people were alive to agree, would be less of a big deal in my mind.

that said, the albert einstein and jim henson ads are great pictures...

i just think they could use today's people, who really use macs.... people like moby or whoever else is 'big'.... heck, even nine inch nails (who i dislike) are massive mac people...

PGant
Jun 20, 2002, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by britboy
<snip>Had you heard about it from someone, knew of it before and just decided to join in, some other reason? Thanks for the posts though, they've been interesting and amusing to read. It's nice to see the attitude from the other side of the fence.<snip>

Hello BB: I've been reading/lurking on Macrumors for quite awhile. I think Arn has done a great job with this board, I just never had a reason to post before. As for what prompted me to contribute my first post...well...read the entries at the start of this thread. Some guy had posted a parody version of the Switch campaign on his web site, including some goofy banners. I had a good laugh and responded in my usual smart-alecky yet understated way. Later that day, Apple responded in turn to this guy. Unlike me, they were not understated. I sure wish I had an efficient legal department like that to protect the interests of my company.

Anyhow, as to why I'm here...like the rest of you, I'm always interested to hear what Apple is up to. And I have to hand it to them: for a company that has only a small (yet vibrant!) share of the computer market (and it's even smaller here in Canada), they are quite skillful at remaining on the public radar screen. In my business, that's a talent that is *very* hard to come by.

Come to think of it, that was yet another reason why Apple caught my attention in the first place...back in those awful BSOD days, before I made *the* switch.

Cheers
Patrick Gant

PS Keep up the great work, Arn!

bobindashadows
Jun 20, 2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by PGant


Hello BB: I've been reading/lurking on Macrumors for quite awhile. I think Arnold has done a great job with this board, I just never had a reason to post before.

Dude! Arn is short for Arnold?! I never knew!! :eek: :p I always wondered....

Ensign Paris
Jun 20, 2002, 12:51 PM
hey

welcome to the boards Apple Swichers, are you staying here, or will you disappear after a while?

Ensign

Ensign Paris
Jun 20, 2002, 12:51 PM
hey

welcome to the boards Apple Swichers, are you staying here, or will you disappear after a while?

Ensign

Moxiemike
Jun 20, 2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by beno


Yawn. I'm just waiting for Liza Richardson to show up...:D

Awwww yea. Pgant and co are all awesome guys and whatnot.... but bring on liza!!

If you guys know her, send her on over! :)

Tell her Moxie Mike wants to chat her up.

heehee

:D :D :D

TeraRWM
Jun 20, 2002, 01:13 PM
I think these commercials are just what Apple needs right now. Over the past years the have been slowly loosing market share to PeeCee competitors and well...that's just not right!

You know AaronAdams (I just read your story on your mac.com site) and I realized how strange and identical your story is to mine. I was about to get the cube, got discontinued...I switched because X was cool...and it was! I was got my iPod around Christimas time. I grew up on DOS. Etc. But of course I've got some differences. Like I'm 15...and your not. Now this is my summer and I just write Cocoa and C++ software. I'm also working on a Star Wars spoof with my friends.

Any ways all you guys in the new Apple Ads ROCK. Without you Apple wouldn't have been able to make these great commercials to increase their market share. Adios Amigos!

Backtothemac
Jun 20, 2002, 01:20 PM
Patrick Welcome!

It is nice to see you here. I hope that you hang with all of us for a while. It is a unique experience to have you here. At least I feel like it is. If you ever have any questions, just ask. Look forward to talking to you.
C

nadroj
Jun 20, 2002, 02:57 PM
here's a tip for a newbie: the more, "smilies," you use, the stupider you sound. write that down.

Rower_CPU
Jun 20, 2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by nadroj
here's a tip for a newbie: the more, "smilies," you use, the stupider you sound. write that down.

I'm sorry but someone new to the boards, such as yourself, making these kind of comments is just plain rude. You need to establish yourself as a member of the community before handing out "advice" such as that.

And by the way, the more grammatical mistakes you make, such as commas, the stupider you sound. Write that down.:rolleyes:

Moxiemike
Jun 20, 2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by nadroj
here's a tip for a newbie: the more, "smilies," you use, the stupider you sound. write that down.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

bobindashadows
Jun 20, 2002, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


I'm sorry but someone new to the boards, such as yourself, making these kind of comments is just plain rude. You need to establish yourself as a member of the community before handing out "advice" such as that.

And by the way, the more grammatical mistakes you make, such as commas, the stupider you sound. Write that down.:rolleyes:

Lol nice smackdown, Rower! :D :D :D

I don't see how smilies make you sound stupid. :p "What a moron, he uses SMILIES! You know, i hate people who use smilies! They obviously have NO credibility if they use little images to express themselves!" :rolleyes: some people can be so illogical...

arn
Jun 20, 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by TeraRWM

You know AaronAdams (I just read your story on your mac.com site) and I realized how strange and identical your story is to mine. I was about to get the cube, got discontinued...I switched because X was cool...and it was!

So did you not get the cube? I find this funny... it's like that simpons episode - not sure if you all know it, or remember it...

Moe says something like "ah. might as well close the bar - slow sunday night". Outside, as the light goes out, a huge crowd of people are walking up to the bar, one saying "No... I am going to drink you under the table". The light goes out, and they say "aww..." and turn around and go home.

How many people were just about to buy a cube before they discontinued 'em. :)

arn

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by arn
So did you not get the cube? I find this funny... it's like that simpons episode - not sure if you all know it, or remember it...

Moe says something like "ah. might as well close the bar - slow sunday night". Outside, as the light goes out, a huge crowd of people are walking up to the bar, one saying "No... I am going to drink you under the table". The light goes out, and they say "aww..." and turn around and go home.

How many people were just about to buy a cube before they discontinued 'em. :)


haha. that's a great scene. reminds me of the scene where some building gets torn down or something and a ton of rats pour into moe's. from outside on the street you just hear moe "ok, everyone tuck your pants into your socks".

ahh. that said, welcome all the pseudo-celebrities. and i can understand disliking seeing yourself on screen. anytime i make a video and i'm the only one around enough to "star" in it... i have to leave the room when people watch it.

just goes to show you guys truly are "real people" rather than paid actors. word

damon
Jun 20, 2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


haha. that's a great scene. ...

just goes to show you guys truly are "real people" rather than paid actors. word
Heh... this is too funny. Two things: First, have any of you folks played with MacJournal 2.1? There's a "Taco" button you can add to the toolbar that, when pressed, brings up a random Simpsons quote. "MMMmmmm... Free Goo!" Man, I love that stuff.

Second, on this pseudo-celebrity kick, here's a bit of irony: I got a letter the other day that says I'm now qualified to join the Screen Actors Guild. That's right, I could pay the $1300 and become equity... and then I could STRIKE!

Being a real person is cool. And ironic. And Smilie. :D

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by damon
Second, on this pseudo-celebrity kick, here's a bit of irony: I got a letter the other day that says I'm now qualified to join the Screen Actors Guild. That's right, I could pay the $1300 and become equity... and then I could STRIKE!

Being a real person is cool. And ironic. And Smilie. :D

hey man, you get all sorts of great benefits... guaranteed salaries and guaranteed breaks and all that garbage.... you're basically set (once you get any jobs. ha!)

$1300/year or just once?

smilies are cool and ironic too. as for being a real person, i wonder why they haven't started using androids yet to act in commercials. wouldn't be much different most of the time.

i think i'll start my own guild and start a strike.

AaronAdams
Jun 20, 2002, 09:42 PM
I got mail from SAG also. You have to pay the $1300 fee to join, and then I think you have to make so much money every year doing SAG work to maintain your membership. I figured I probably wouldn't qualify :)

Aaron

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2002, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by AaronAdams
I got mail from SAG also. You have to pay the $1300 fee to join, and then I think you have to make so much money every year doing SAG work to maintain your membership. I figured I probably wouldn't qualify :)


why not? does porn acting count towards sag? haha

that's interesting that they contacted you. i would have thought you'd have to hunt them down.

so as of now i think i've seen 4 of the switch ads. are there more, have they all been televised? etc..

damon
Jun 21, 2002, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


why not? does porn acting count towards sag? haha

that's interesting that they contacted you. i would have thought you'd have to hunt them down.

so as of now i think i've seen 4 of the switch ads. are there more, have they all been televised? etc..

There are only the 8 total that are on the Apple site. Yes, they've all been televised. Apparently, they just handed the networks the tapes and said "Showcase 'em all." So, while they've told us which shows they'll be in, we don't know who's going to be in which. Heads up for Dateline NBS, Alias, and the Practice, as well as Wimbleton as the biggies.

damon

Hemingray
Jun 21, 2002, 12:28 AM
Holy cow, what have I been missing! :eek:

Three of the Apple switchers, right here in MacRumors... now THAT's cool! :D I feel so humbled... hehehe. Now if the other 5 joined in...!

Man, I read that article over at The Register... talk about angst! Now I remember why I don't visit there often. :rolleyes:

Good to hear from you, Aaron, Patrick and Damon. Welcome to the MacRumors community! I certainly can't speak for the Register, but I personally thought you guys were great. :)

Koolaid
Jun 21, 2002, 11:26 AM
From the time I saw the new advertisements I thought "sham" "fake" and I still do.

I particularly enjoyed the comment from The Register about these ads demonstrating how the worlds computer idiots are moving to the mac because windows is too difficult to administer or a "horrid little machine".

I have alot of mac friends. We have discussions of PC/MAC alot. By alot I mean 2 different discussions a week possibly. Most of it is friendly jabs and other times its legit discussions about pros and cons.

The reason why I'm posting.... Aaron Adams.

What turnip truck did you fall from? I read your article on the switch site and watched your video. You are a Lan Administrator and you have to "struggle" to keep your systems running? I use the word "struggle" without exaggeration of course. As you did. What does your boss think about you "struggling"?

I mentioned your story to my boss. His facial expression was the same as mine. You too can make this face. Squint your left eye, stretch the left side of your mouth towards your left ear and then say "huh?". Then throw a giggle in at the end.

It bothers me that you post this information. 1. Because I know for a fact and with experience that its not hard to manage that many computers. 2. Because you doing this is making a Network Administrators job look difficult. Well, its not difficult for the experienced of course. Its tiresome at times, but not to the extent that you use it. As an excuse to move to a different platform.

I manage 150 clients all running 95, 98, NT and 2000. 5 Servers all running NT (2 of which I will update to 2000 this year) and about 27 networked printers. The funny thing about this is that the forum that I frequent has the friends I mentioned above, starting a poll that asked if I actually do any work because they see me on the forum constantly. I have my network just about managing itself. All of my installations are fully automated using the tools provided by Microsoft and Symantec. I don't "struggle".

I'm a living and breathing example of why a Network Administrator doesn't have to "struggle" with a Windows based network and goto a different platform because I can't handle it. Windows isn't difficult ya know. The scary part is that you ARE a network admin. How did you even land that job let alone keep it?

So, why do I think this whole advertisement is a fake and a sham? Because of my actual REAL experience with Windows which taught me that there is no struggle and your story has to be completely made up. I don't see how any qualified Network Admin would feel so much struggle managing their network that they have to move to a different platform to escape lifes tragic moments.

Please see my second sentence.

Rower_CPU
Jun 21, 2002, 11:41 AM
Let me start this reply off with a preface: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That out of the way, I really think you're barking up the wrong tree Koolaid.

Instead of asking yourself, "What would cause a Windows LAN administrator to switch platforms?" you're attacking his abilities in his profession.

What is your actual experience with OS X? Have you used it? I don't see how anyone manageing a network with 95/98 and NT boxes can say it's "easy" to administer, or even maintain, especially in comparison to OS X.

I'll take MAMP (Mac, Apache, MySQL, PHP) over IIS anyday. You can keep the viruses.

I'm open to discussion here, I just think your motives are a little suspect.

We might be able to shed some light on the subject that your "mac friends" may have left out.:)

Koolaid
Jun 21, 2002, 12:06 PM
It's a matter of angle :)

I am not so much attacking his profession but defending my own.

As any of my mac friends will attest, I hate IIS. It's the biggest peice of crap MS has ever made. It's plagued with holes and bugs. Its unstable.

Which is why I made a switch recently to Apache. I'm a newbie with it but I'm willing to give it a shot and learn more about it. See, I can still manage a network and not like many of the things that MS does or has. But its not a "struggle" by any sense of the meaning.

I attack because his profession is the same as mine. I feel that I have an inherent right to critique those in the same field of work as myself. And I reserve the right to call that person a fake or a sham when I see evidence of mistatements and exaggerations that benefit a 3rd party.

His statements, whether he realizes it or not, influence outside perception of a PC network administrator. What do you think those people's thoughts are? "This guy is a PC Lan Administrator and even he struggles to keep his sytems running". That doesnt give a very good impression and I think that was the intended goal of Apple.

Rower_CPU
Jun 21, 2002, 12:21 PM
Good points.

Advertising is propaganda, no matter what they're selling. If people buy it, good for Apple.

As a computer technician (PC and Mac) I see the problems that Windows has everyday, and I much prefer not to deal with them on my personal computer. I feel that this is the vein of the ads.

I can't speak for Aaron's experience, but as someone who is very technically literate I do know that Windows can be a struggle even when you know what you're doing. Part of the problems arise because of the plethora of hardware they have to try to support…the rest are ease-of-use and quality of code issues. Apple solves the hardware issue by manageing both, and their UI design is without question above and beyond anything out there. How else do you explain that a Unix and Apache newbie like myself is able to manage a robust QuickTime Streaming Server with little technical training besides what I've done on my own?

Do you think it's possible for Apple to cover all of this in a commercial less than 30 seconds long? I don't. They have to abbreviate and use impactful anecdotes to make their point effectively...and these "real people" are entitled to say whatever they want about Windows. The more experience they have using Windows adds credibility to their statements.

Don't forget that Damon Wright also worked/works in IT.

AaronAdams
Jun 21, 2002, 12:24 PM
First off, let me assure you that I'm entirely qualified for the position I hold and, without ever meeting me or working in the same environment, you have no basis on which to critisize any of my abilities, nor do you have any right to question my employer's assesment of my work. My employer is very happy with me and has stated a number of times that I'm considered a valuable asset to the company, in as many words.

That being said, let me tell you about what I've faced at work this week alone:

- One user gets a dialog box that says "Unable to load utillg32.dll" every time his machine boots up. None of the fixes in the Novell knowledgebase solved the problem, and neither did a reinstall of the client.

- One user's e-mail client instantly crashes every time he drags attachments to the desktop.

- One user keeps getting bounced e-mail from a klez-infected friend.

- One user opened up her Microsoft Access to a dialog box that said she wasn't properly licensed. The fix involved replacing a corrupted font.

- A user cannot open Word attachments from her e-mail. The problem was that Office 2000 did not remove the Word Viewer 97 when it was installed. Why does Office 2000 not remove all pieces of Office 97?

- Randomly, a selection box in a certain program will be solid black with no choices displayed. The only fix is to reboot the machine.

- Upon power-on, a computer shows nothing but junk characters on the monitor but the disk behaves as if booting normally. Possibly a bad video card.

- A machine boots to a blank desktop and hangs. There is no response from the keyboard or mouse. Booting into safe mode reveals nothing obviously wrong.

- Windows 2000 machine has blue screened at random for a while with no apparent pattern.

- Several PC's with ATX power supplies refuse to turn off during shutdown.

- Upon login, Windows displays a dialog saying Norton Autoprotect will but shut down, yet the icons remains in the system tray and seems to function normally.

These are just a few of the things from the top of my head for this week only. Some of these problems are show stoppers, some are annoyances, some are easily solved... but they all require my attention and they prevent users from working. That's where the struggle comes in. The phone rings almost constantly with the latest BS problem I have to deal with. I've got other things to do besides babysit tempemental computers, but unfortunately break-fix is part of the reality of things. Network administration itself is not hard, but dealing with workstation problems is.

And good for you managing 150 clients. I've managed several computer labs at a high school with more than 300 machines total, each triple booting into some combination of NT, 2000, 98SE, and 95. I know what it means to manage a large number of machines with destructive, careless users.

I didn't switch to Macintosh because I couldn't handle it. I still handle it full time, much to the happiness of my employer. I switched at home because I was sick of dealing with it. Some of the same problems at work inevitably made their way home. I bought my Mac as an experiment, not as a surrender, and it turns out I was very happy with it.

And frankly, it's rude and presumptuous of you to question how I keep my job, especially when you know almost nothing about me nor what I do.

There's nothing fake about my ad. I agreed to do an ad for Apple because I've had great experiences with their products and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Aaron

sparkleytone
Jun 21, 2002, 01:16 PM
presumptuous is the very definition of 90% of all hardcore PC users. be they linuxgeeks, m$dorks, or just machaters, they share this same trait. i was one of them myself. but now i have an iBook and a rotting winXP machine. you wanna buy my rig Koolaid??

Koolaid
Jun 21, 2002, 03:07 PM
Thank you for replying Aaron. However harsh or attacking my words may sound, they are my feelings and my opinion. I respect your choice to go with a mac if it makes you feel more relaxed. You can buy 10 of em for that matter.

Your definition of "struggle" in your reply to me, is not the way it is portrayed in the commercial or in your email. It was taken completly out of context. I do hope you see this. Its one thing to struggle with repetative annoyances and its another thing to struggle with your job because what you support is crap and unmanageable no matter what you do. Your message sent out the latter. Which most certainly is not the case.

I say your problems at work are a lack of infrastructure, updated OS's and software, and a lack of training. I say lack of training in a good way. Maybe for yourself and most importantly for your users. It took me a while to get into the swing of things. I came into my job 2.5 yrs ago with almost 7 years of support experience. It looked like a grenade went off here. It was everything from drastically different types of PC's and hardware to outdated old software and client software with static IP's still installed on machines. It took me about 18 months to undo alot of this. Replace old systems. Update them to a more stable recent version of windows and impliment a disaster recovery/automated setup of 90% of the computers and the software they run. It wasn't a fun trip but it payed off big time in the end. Everything is pretty much on a level playing field and my job is a joy to wake up and come to. Sure I have my moments of dealing with BS and mysterious "glitches" that noone has any clue of the reason. But its a good job, I work with great people (ignorant at times but good people). Its not difficult nor are the wierd things that happen. I just fix em and move on.

Anyways, I apologize for any attacks towards your personality, but I still totally disagree with the message you're sending. You were used for a cheap marketting scam and it makes you look worse than you would ever want to know.

I watched it and thought instantly... "a pc lan admin who struggles at work and struggles at home using the very thing he says he's supporting.....yeah ok we got a genius here". I perceived you as a complete idiot when I saw it as did a few others that I spoke to. They too are Lan Admins. Sure I understand NOW, what you meant by "struggle" but many other people out there who feel the same that I do won't have this oportunity to hear it from the horses mouth what was meant.

Its unfortunate. GL to you :)

Rower_CPU
Jun 21, 2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Koolaid

I say your problems at work are a lack of infrastructure, updated OS's and software, and a lack of training. I say lack of training in a good way. Maybe for yourself and most importantly for your users. It took me a while to get into the swing of things. I came into my job 2.5 yrs ago with almost 7 years of support experience. It looked like a grenade went off here. It was everything from drastically different types of PC's and hardware to outdated old software and client software with static IP's still installed on machines. It took me about 18 months to undo alot of this. Replace old systems. Update them to a more stable recent version of windows and impliment a disaster recovery/automated setup of 90% of the computers and the software they run. It wasn't a fun trip but it payed off big time in the end. Everything is pretty much on a level playing field and my job is a joy to wake up and come to. Sure I have my moments of dealing with BS and mysterious "glitches" that noone has any clue of the reason. But its a good job, I work with great people (ignorant at times but good people). Its not difficult nor are the wierd things that happen. I just fix em and move on.


User error is a big part of technical support, this is true.

But 18 months fixing stuff up?!?!?! And you're defending that platform?!?!?!

You're either more patient or more insane than most people I know. It doesn't take a "genius" to see that that amount of work to "fix" a network is ridiculous.

AaronAdams
Jun 21, 2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Koolaid
Your definition of "struggle" in your reply to me, is not the way it is portrayed in the commercial or in your email. It was taken completly out of context. I do hope you see this. Its one thing to struggle with repetative annoyances and its another thing to struggle with your job because what you support is crap and unmanageable no matter what you do. Your message sent out the latter. Which most certainly is not the case.

First, "struggle" is not mentioned anywhere in my commercial. It's used in one place on the switchers site, and I think the context it's used in is perfectly clear. Hundreds of people took more than a month to create these ads, and i think if there was any doubt about anything I said, someone from TBWA\Chiat\Day or Apple would have said something.

I say your problems at work are a lack of infrastructure, updated OS's and software, and a lack of training.

Again, you know nothing about my situation at work, so any comment about what's going on is speculation.

Anyways, I apologize for any attacks towards your personality, but I still totally disagree with the message you're sending. You were used for a cheap marketting scam and it makes you look worse than you would ever want to know.

I certainly have not been used for a cheap scam. Apple has sought my approval every step of they way and what I think of Macintoshes is being accurately protrayed. Apple is happy with what I've said, and the e-mails filling my box are all positive. I couldn't be happier with everything involved.

Aaron

AlphaTech
Jun 21, 2002, 06:31 PM
As some of you know, I am in tech support as well. Currently we have about 250 Mac's and between 30 and 40 pc's at the site I work at (the company is global). Besides myself, there is only one other tech, and he is not allowed to touch the pc's (he still needs to get closer to my knowledge level on the Mac before we let him near the pc's).

Last year we had our network infrastructure updated to all 100 baseT auto sensing. You know how long it took?? A weekend. Sure, I had to call down to corporate, and have the infrastructure people set some of the switch ports to different settings, since Mac's can automatically deal with Auto sense, unlike older pc's. I had told them to make all the ports full auto sense, but they didn't, hence the need for the phone calls.

I have seen pictures of what the network closet looked like 11+ years ago when my boss started at the company. Back then, it WAS a nightmare, but she got it all fixed up (as fast as they could give her the budget to do so).

As for supporting the different platforms, a healthy percentage of our users here (on the Mac side) are savvy enough to NOT go and ***** up their systems. Even if they do, most of the time they tell us what they did last, and we are able to get them back up and running in short order. In the 2-1/2+ years I have been working where I am, I have only come across one Mac that has died (motherboard went on a beige G3 233MHz system after many long, hard years of service). On the pc side, several have given up the ghost, ***** the bed, [insert death saying here]. In general, the Mac's get more use, and are run harder then the pc's. The pc's are for the business, financial, and HR departments. Where the designers, page production and all the writers/editors use Mac's (of one flavor or another).

We are in the middle of a RAM upgrade for just about everyone on G3 systems (iMac's and blue and white systems) so that we can migrate to OS X. It is going to be a hell of a lot easier then switching someone from win98/nt4 to 2k.

In my [professional] experience, the people that bash the Mac the hardest, are the same ones that would never consider using one. Hell, even my cousin, who is also in IT, is talking about getting an iMac so that he can learn about them. He knows windblows and linux, but wants to learn about the Mac and OS X.

BTW, I have a game pc here that I built (there was no way I was going to buy an intel powered system *cough*crap*cough*) and it is not the first pc I have constructed. I also provide tech support for people on the side, and the only reasons I don't get a ton of repeats are that just about all of them (except for one person) are on Mac's AND I know what the hell I am doing. I had a repeat a short time ago, after not working on the system for over a year. The woman's daughter put a smudged cd into the drive, and then it acted up. The drive had heavy fragmentation, and some damaged directories. I was finished with the blue and white G3 after only a short time, and even ran several updates on it (software update control panel is many times better then the windows update item). In under two hours, the woman had the computer back, fully functional. As always, she was very happy with the service. I also periodically check on my customers to see if their systems are running good for them, as a courtesy.

Koolaid
Jun 21, 2002, 06:50 PM
Ok buddy. GL to ya !

:rolleyes:

Oh, btw....
You won't see Office 2000 uninstall Word Viewer 97 because its not a qualified application thats recognized by the Off2000 setup. Infact, its not even part of Office 97. You know that part during setup that says "looking for previous versions"? It wont find it. So it wont uninstall it.

Just something to help ya from struggling next week :D

http://www.emotioneric.com/complacent.jpg

k00tgrrl
Jun 21, 2002, 06:51 PM
i realize the little sign under my name says newbie.....FYI, I am sparkleytone's gf and went from watching him read this site to reading it myself.

I hadn't planned on posting, but after reading what Koolaid said I felt the need to throw in my two cents.

I find it interesting how one who is so adamantly against the ads and macs in general would come to a macrumors site to waive their wintel banner. I am not afraid to sound presumptuous in saying that I think koolaid is truly a mac lover at heart he just got lost on the information highway:D

AlphaTech
Jun 21, 2002, 06:54 PM
IF that picture you posted is you koolaid, you are the stoner poster child... Did your parents have any children without brain damage???

damon
Jun 21, 2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Good points.


Don't forget that Damon Wright also worked/works in IT.

Hey, what's with dragging me down, too?! ;)

Here are a few cents on the "propaganda" angle. First, I was sensitive about my ad when I saw it the first time. Realize, we were filmed for a LONG time. I was on camera for at least 45 minutes, most were shot longer. That's 45 minutes of me jawing on all topics technical. We talked about dynamic memory and GUI design from a HID standpoint vis office productivity and networking hassles, desktop support issues... whatever. They took 30 seconds. 30 seconds. That's the way it worked out.

When I first put my post on my site, man, people went nuts. I've been ragged all over the Internet based on the things I said there. Someone made a connection between the PS2 I used when I was 15 and my career in the IT field and deduced that I must be a complete idiot. I sat down and immediately started going through all that I'd written making sure that there wasn't anything people could pick apart. I soon discovered that's impossible. You can't please all of the people. ...

Posts like this on Aaron's ad are unavoidable, and that's sad. I see the point, that the propaganda angle might, in the eyes of some, denegrate the field. Though, I don't know many companies who's IT department could be deflated any further -- let's face it, everyday-users don't always appreciate IT. I understood the vernacular they chose for Aaron, whatever the words were, and I've lived those feelings myself, as have many others, I'm sure. The ad, and those words, serve Apple well; they make their point.

I'm a better technologist because of my experience with the Windows platforms, Mac, and all the other OSes I've touched. That I've settled on a Mac for my life right now, well, that's par for the course.

Have a great day,

dw

Koolaid
Jun 21, 2002, 07:08 PM
I am not afraid to sound presumptuous in saying that I think koolaid is truly a mac lover at heart he just got lost on the information highway

lol maybe. just maybe.

Honestly? I don't have a thing against the mac platform. I know they are dependable machines as I have friends who will swear by it. There are a few things that I question in regards to price, but hey, I don't own one so I can only compare what I get to what I see in a mac advertisement. I gotta tip my hat to Apple though for the design of the new iMac. Now if they would just come out with a simple plain beige looking case... heh

Funny you mention that cuz I just got off the phone with a buddy of mine who loves his dual ghz G4. We were talkin about this discussion here and laughed a bit. He told me to buy a mac and I said I had no need for one because my XP box does everything I need but if my daughter wanted one sometime in the future I would buy it. He laughed harder :)

I have to admit, we were in compusa one evening lookin at printers and I couldn't get her away from the iMac. I said "great, now I'm gonna have one of these things in my house" wife hit me and said "oh would you stop it".

Jabs are all in good fun :cool:

edit: OMG no thats not me! That was taken from http://www.emotioneric.com (Emotion Eric)

This is me ... http://www.the37.com/iB3b/iB_html/non-cgi/avatars/grr.gif

and I was the only one with braindamage. Or so my parents tell me.

AlphaTech
Jun 21, 2002, 07:50 PM
koolaid... the poster child for both birth control and abortion. :rolleyes: :p I feel for your parents... really, I do.

As for the hexpee box you have, home or pro edition of windblows??? With the lack of security with the passport account that you created for registering the home version (or you would have a OSless box after 30 days) I would make sure that you change anything on there to something not accurate.

It makes you wonder when a company forces you to get a passport/.net account JUST to use the os that came with your computer... Typical m$ monopoly practices... to get people to give them even more just because m$ wants it. Don't forget about the options they removed because THEY thought you wouldn't need them. Who the ***** are they to tell me what I do or do not want???

You really DO need to get a Mac, so that you can actually have an educated/informed opinion about them. Just going from what other people have told you, or what you have read is moronic. Find out for yourself by using one for a few months. THEN come back and make statements about it.

One fact about the Mac... the lifespan of the hardware is long. We have beige G3 systems at work (233MHz) that we are just now pulling off to replace with newer systems. Think about it, a system that was built in 1998 is still in active use. With a little added memory, we could easily install, and run, OS X (10.1.x). How many 4 year old peecee's are in active use today??? How about older systems??? I know of people still actively using PowerMac 7200 series systems and some with 7100 series too.

King Cobra
Jun 21, 2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
How many 4 year old peecee's are in active use today??? How about older systems??? I know of people still actively using PowerMac 7200 series systems and some with 7100 series too.

My father has used an older Mac running System 7 or other, running at 33MHz (yep, a Quadra) for at least 7 years or so. I'll admit, it has a few problems, but that was system 7.

He!!, I am still using the original iMac. It has been completely erased and restarted from scratch though, but I got a solid couple of years on it. Now I have only what I need on it, along with OS 9.2.2, and it runs rather quick.

As for the old peecee in our house, it's becoming old and lonely. Maybe we should put it with the rest of the peecees downtown! :cool:

Paladin
Jun 21, 2002, 08:43 PM
After being stuck for years in the terrible world of the PC, I've found my way home! My parents asked me what I wanted for my college graduation, and I said "a new iBook." Having served as their in-house Windows tech support for the past 10 years, they obviously thought I was crazy. Well, I got the iBook, and now I make sure to take a few minutes each day to tell them what a pleasure it is to work with OS X and this beautiful machine. It does everything well, and the performance is much better than I expected (yeah, MHz used to matter to me). I don't know about the previous iBooks, but this thing really flies. I've been contemplating this move since I worked with Macs in middle school, so it wasn't the advertisements that turned me (I bought it a week before they premiered). However, I know how they feel. I've switched for good, and it's great to be here.

King Cobra
Jun 21, 2002, 08:54 PM
I have to note Paladin for three things:
(1) graduating from the big times :)
(2) welcome to the forums! :D
(3) Congratulations on finally being able to evade the dreaded peecee world! :cool:

Maybe you should appear on one of those Apple commercials that show real people who use Macs for real reasons. But, until then, enjoy your iBook! :cool:

AlphaTech
Jun 21, 2002, 08:57 PM
Welcome to the fold Paladin... Now all you need to do is become a dark paladin and things will be even better.

I purchased my first Mac back when they were still making clones, yup, I got one of those. I was forced to look at what you got for the money, but at least it was a Mac system. After Apple did away with the clone makers, I picked up a PowerBook G3, and then a G4 (when the Sawtooth board was used). I have traded up through a few PowerBooks until I finally got my new 800MHz model. Yeah, there are peecee laptops out there with higher numbers. Do I care?? ***** no... :D

As they say, once you go Mac, you don't go back... :D

PGant
Jun 21, 2002, 11:15 PM
Geez. I go away for a day and *look* what happens: flame wars, people picking on Aaron and whatnot. I'm quite surprised to see how much life is still left in this thread about the ads. I'm far from being unbiased, but here's my professional take (for what it's worth).

The best ads prompt you to talk about them. Whether or not you agree with the content is another story. The point is if you notice them, then that's an accomplishment. Think of it as Step One. Granted there's far more to a great ad that this factor alone, but it's a biggie nevertheless. Imagine if an ad was rolled out that was so middle of the road, so calulated that everyone agreed with the content. What would you have? Yup, you guessed it. Boring mediocrity. And who really wants that? There's enough of that out there already. I'd offer examples, but even I am not silly enough to offer myself up as flame bait.

Speaking of flames...Picking apart what Aaron or I or anyone else in the campaign says on-camera is rather silly when you consider it's a 30 second snippet of a much longer dialogue (see Damon's earlier post). Instead, look at the underlying message of the campaign: all Mac users are the best sales people that Apple has at its disposal. So come on guys, use your powers for good, not uhh...well...you know...evil.

PS To Damon and Aaron: I too got my invite to join SAG, from Melissa Gilbert. As any Babylon 5 fan knows, she works for the Shadows, so I declined the offer.

AlphaTech
Jun 22, 2002, 01:11 AM
Something you won't have to deal with once you switch to the Mac... constant 'critical updates' from m$ every other day. They have been releasing security updates way too much. Kind of makes you wonder (even more) about the quality of coding they use in their security protocols. Apple has only had a few 'security' updates, and most of the time, those are to plug holes in m$ software. :D

OS X is evolving all the time, so updates are expected (and much easier to download and install then what m$ puts you through). With the updates from m$, you HAVE to go to their web site to obtain them (via ie of course). With either OS 9.x or OS X, you run the update application/control panel/system preferences item, and IT grabs the updates for you. It's also much easier to install only the ones you want under either OS 9.x or OS X. Especially with how m$ has 'updated' the way the 'windows update' works.

Seems that m$ enjoys shafting the users so much that they find new ways to do it. If they are not going after your money, they are trying to ***** with your mind.

Postal
Jun 22, 2002, 05:55 AM
Gack, I didn't actually realize that one of the people from the commercials (Patrick) effectively lives right next door to me! Never let it be said that all the extra little bits of information on forums are useless...

I'm currently a Windows-based PC user (Macs are personal computers as well, so I don't think of the term "PC" as negative) who's seriously looking at adding a Mac to his home network in 2003. I would do it sooner but my Big Expensive Thing (tm) budget for 2002 has largely been blown, being a university student 'n all. :)

The main reasons why *I* am considering a Mac are both for fun and strategic reasons. First, the fun part: I'm a geek and I know it, and while Windows offers an outlet for my gaming needs I also would like an OS that's interesting to use by itself. Windows XP is better than earlier versions but still has a decidedly regular look to it and nothing particularly attention-getting. OSX is very visual and has a Unix command-line terminal. Unix! You can't get more geeky than that.

The strategic reasons are simple. First, I'm not a big fan of Microsoft's tactics; yes, Apple also integrates a lot of its own products into the OS, but Microsoft does it with the explicit goal of squeezing out everyone else (and they make sure that their formats are used when possible). They also seem to be moving towards a scheme where they may effectively own your computer, forcing you to "subscribe" to your OS just to keep going. The XP activation scheme is just tolerable.

Also, as many people know, Windows is finnicky; it crashes (though thankfully much less in XP) and can start doing things for no apparent reason. In tech support I deal with a lot of customers whose systems simply refuse to behave - occasionally we'll do a standard reinstall of TCP/IP and the restart will fail, or it appears to work but something's suddenly removed, and so on. The Mac users, on the other hand, are simple to deal with, but there's one problem - since I don't use a Mac at home, I can't talk to them with the same kind of intimate knowledge that I have as a Windows user. I'd like to fix that, especially with OSX; at work we can only support OSX on the most basic of levels, and I'd like to be able to say that I really DO know how to set it up.

Patrick, is there any chance I can visit sometime? It may help to ease any transition I might make... besides, it's nice to meet a mini-celebrity. :p

AlphaTech
Jun 22, 2002, 12:19 PM
Welcome to the fold Postal... just don't go postal on anyone here, yet... :D

I started working on a dos based pc when I was 8. I didn't think much of the Mac until I actually sat in front of one back in 88, since then, I've been hooked.

As a tech as well, it really does help to have the kind of computer you are supporting at home. I currently have a Mac for my main system at work, but my boss is getting me a brand new windows box this year. I have my TiBook at home, which I use every day for just about everything possible. The only time I fiew up the win box is to play games. That's what I built it for, so that is just about all it does. Oh, and I do NOT have xp installed on it... I went with w2k since I built this before xp came out (glad of it to). I refuse to pay m$ the couple of hundred dollars they want for me to 'upgrade' to xp.

Once you start using OS X, windows will look like a clunker... as it is. :D

Postal
Jun 22, 2002, 06:28 PM
Thanks for the warm greets. I'm not the sort to literally go "postal" (I hope not!); my alias was actually chosen when I was in my early teens - I think it was a social commentary for the time, but I've had it so long that it's hard to let go of it.

I have to say that I can't blame anyone who's comfy with Win 2000 and doesn't want to upgrade. There are a few nice tweaks in XP, but nothing worth an upgrade if you're already using 2000. Although it is rather nice to see how relatively automatic some hardware installs can be in XP...

For me the main dilemma in getting a Mac (apart from bracing myself for the purchase) is the question of what to get. I'd love to get a gaming-oriented system, but it may also be much smarter to just go for a basic system that lets me run OSX smoothly (which will be just about any recent Mac once Jaguar is out).

MWNY (and maybe MWSF) will probably help me decide...

AlphaTech
Jun 22, 2002, 08:29 PM
Get whichever tower you can afford when you go to purchase. If you already have a good monitor, then get a kvm box to connect multiple systems to it. Or splurge and get a new screen (either from Apple or anyone else).

I would recommend getting the fastest single processor tower, unless you have enough money to get a dual processor model. Get the standard memory amount from Apple and then go out and get more right away. Install it before you even power up the system. You will be very glad you did. Don't go with anything less then 512MB (total) to start with. Ignore the 'deals' that offer 'free' memory with the system (typical of the catalogs), they charge about $30 just to install the memory. You would be better off using that towards a larger memory chip and installing it yourself. If you have EVER installed memory before, you can do it in a Mac. If anything, it's easier then a pc (just another thing that is easier).

Postal
Jun 23, 2002, 05:50 AM
Actually, as a gamer I was thinking more about upgrading the video card over the CPU if I wanted a "power system" (and it would mean more with Jaguar, since the video card could work full-time on 2D). For example, instead of a plain G4 933 (at the moment, not after MWNY) with a GF4 MX or Radeon 7500, I'd opt for a G4 800 with a GF4 Ti instead. The CPU might suffer but the truly intensive things I'd use - games, natch - would be a lot faster.

I never thought about getting a switch for an existing monitor, actually - that would make sense, although I'm sure it might get annoying unless a KVM switch also has connectors for other parts of the system (mouse, keyboard, speakers). In a multi-computer household switches are usually unnecessary, since everyone wants undivided attention from their computers!

Koolaid
Jun 23, 2002, 11:55 AM
The "K" and the "M" stand for Keyboard and Mouse so yes it will support what you're asking.

Your decision to not go with fastest cpu and go with faster video makes sense. You're a gamer and need the performance. Most of the latest CPU's will give you the HP you need to run any game. The graphics is what your bottle neck will be.

I have a 650mhz P3 with a Radeon 8500. I play 90% of my games with no problems and decent resolution/quality settings. Thanks to my video card. However I do get hiccups once in a while which I'm sure is due to my 2 1/2 yr old CPU.

While I agree with you, I handle it differently. I put my self into temporary debt when I upgrade. I get the latest CPU and Mobo out. Decent RAM.

Are you able to upgrade MAC's like you can a PC? Meaning, just take out your mobo and throw in a different one? Or your CPU? Or do you have to buy a whole new system.

Postal
Jun 25, 2002, 09:35 AM
Koolaid:

I'm not in the Land of Macs (yet) but I can tell you that you can't upgrade your motherboard in most cases, as they aren't sold seperately in any official channels. You'd either have to cannibalize a newer system or shop on eBay if and when you're looking for an upgrade in that area.

However, that's not to say that upgrades don't happen. One distinct advantage of Macs is that, at least with older models (and likely with newer ones), the CPU is on a card rather than going directly into a socket that only fits one CPU range. For example, recently I read up on someone who upgraded his old blue-and-white G3 PowerMac to a G4 500. The AGP on his motherboard (if it even supports AGP) isn't improved and he won't get gigabit Ethernet connections, but it would be like going from a P2 266 or 300 to your P3 650 without having to change any other components.

Apart from that, any PowerMac is readily upgradeable. You can replace the video card (so long as the replacement is Mac-compatible, that is), add more memory, add new hard disks (any IDE drives, or SCSI if your Mac has a SCSI card), and so on. Any case from the blue-and-white G3 onwards has a side door that pulls the motherboard away from the main case so that you can add upgrades without fighting the rest of the components.

Something I should also note is that a LOT of Mac users like to add external hard disks and optical drives, since Firewire is reasonably fast for that purpose (USB 2 is faster at the moment, but non-existent on Macs and rare on Windows PCs). If you ever just need a hard disk for storing music or things like that, you don't even have to open your case.

One more thing before I conclude: if you do consider upgrading important beyond memory or external devices, be sure to get a PowerMac (even if it ends up being a refurb model). On the new iMac the only core upgrade you can make yourself is memory (the Airport card is technically an external device), and I don't know if you can do even that much on an eMac.

AlphaTech
Jun 25, 2002, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Postal
Something I should also note is that a LOT of Mac users like to add external hard disks and optical drives, since Firewire is reasonably fast for that purpose (USB 2 is faster at the moment, but non-existent on Macs and rare on Windows PCs). If you ever just need a hard disk for storing music or things like that, you don't even have to open your case.


Actually in independant tests, FireWire prooves to be faster then USB2. Sustained data transfer rates of USB is just not there. The 480Mbps of USB2 is peak/burst speed, which it really doesn't do. FireWire on the other hand, has a higher sustained data transfer rate (varies with different drives, but the lowest I have seen is about 30MB-35MB/sec on thin drives).

Another bonus/benefit from FireWire is that Apple had a major hand in developing it (don't forget, they have adopted FireWire as the official name for it :D). USB2 is intel's bastard child... 'nuf said. :D

gropo
Jun 25, 2002, 10:23 AM
Aaron, PGant and Damon... Read up and give us your impressions!

for the sake of not feeding the ZD-TV-Troll-Supreme with page-hits, read the article at the bottom of the MacCentral comment thread:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0206/25.dvorak.php

Koolaid
Jun 25, 2002, 11:49 AM
That mac central link doesnt have the full article.

HERE IS THE FULL ARTICLE (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,263476,00.asp)

:D

AaronAdams
Jun 25, 2002, 12:26 PM
He spelled my name wrong.

Aaron

AlphaTech
Jun 25, 2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by gropo
Aaron, PGant and Damon... Read up and give us your impressions!

for the sake of not feeding the ZD-TV-Troll-Supreme with page-hits, read the article at the bottom of the MacCentral comment thread:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0206/25.dvorak.php

Dvorak brings a line from Blazing Saddles to mind...

"Now what'll that ******* think of next?" :D