New Mac Mini = Component out?

Very highly doubt it. With HDMI, I see component connections decreasing along with their accessories.

akaSurreal said:

And would allow a true replacement of Apple TV as well.

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That's not what it's designed for.

belvdr said:

Very highly doubt it. With HDMI, I see component connections decreasing along with their accessories.

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Yes and no. In the consumer space I agree. However HDMI sucks for any kind of distance. So component will probably stick around in the high end/pro space for a while yet (at least for those not wanting to spend money on HD-SDI).

akaSurreal: This is a shot in the dark but some HDTV's will do RGB or YPbPr over the component RCA jacks. Others will do the same but over the HD15 VGA. Then all you would need is the correct HD15-to-component breakout cables.

If not it sounds like you already have something like this:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio...digital-video-converter-kd-va5/prodKDVA5.html

That should do any RGB/component conversion needed before running through your DA.

akaSurreal said:

Thank you Durandal549 for a helpful post for once =)

Yes I do have something very similar to that, but I could not get it to work with the previous gen Mac Mini. I endlessly adjusted refresh rates with DisplayConfigX and the other one for hours, but could never get it to sync any HD resolutions properly across more than one TV. Maybe the new Nvidia chipset will be friendlier. *crosses fingers*

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No problem.

You could also do a scaler instead of just a converter. I found this one: http://www.projectorsuperstore.com/product_details.cfm?aid=NexTag&productid=2778

Instead of trying to get the mac to output the correct res and refresh rates, you let the scaler change the signal. The one accepts up to SXGA and will output a standard HDTV signal 720p/1080i. The output is over a HD15 so you would need a VGA-3RCA breakout cable.

Scalers can get very expensive. Some AV receivers will do scaling but I haven't looked into it. I don't know how practical a solution a scaler is for you but it is another option to look at anyway.

I totally agree. In your case a mini may not be a good solution. You might want to try AVS forum. They may have some ideas to get a mini working for you or good alternatives anyway.

apple doesn't seem to care about the still "niche" market of HTPC's and isn't marketing the mini as this

for them it's a switcher, pure and simple

also, they do not want to detract from the idea of the apple tv

i'm willing to bet that their version of the HTPC will be an expanded apple tv with the ION processor to take allow display of 1080p

akaSurreal said:

provides perfect component output.

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What is perfect about component output? You can only achieve 1080i or less. I would be more concerned with the downstream device that is forcing you to use such a low bandwidth, non-digital video connection.

If you mean easier in terms of number of physical connections, I agree. Why not just use mini DVI-vga and then vga-component adapters which I assume you probably own already if you have an old mac mini.

Some video cards allow a "breakout cable" that goes from VGA to Component (or maybe DVI to component) - so the card and drivers know to output to component.

I don't think Apple's implementations of the cards allow for this, though. Would be cheaper to just get an AppleTV and the computer as the server for it.

jw2002 said:

What is perfect about component output? You can only achieve 1080i or less....

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Component cables CAN send a 1080p signal, it just depends on the devices sending and receiving as to what happens. Both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 will send a 1080p signal over component, but they will only do this with NON-copyrighted material (ie games, etc). And, it's hit or miss as to your TV accepting 1080p on its component input. But, a component cable can certainly DO it.

jw2002 said:

If you mean easier in terms of number of physical connections, I agree. Why not just use mini DVI-vga and then vga-component adapters which I assume you probably own already if you have an old mac mini.

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akaSurreal was basically running into two problems with that.

If the mac mini was outputting an HDTV signal like 720p (YPbPr), breakouts would work fine. However macs only do that if the display requests it. That request only works over vga and DVI because component RCA doesn't carry that kind of info. I forget what the term is, but when there is no display communication to the mac, display preferences only gives RGB signal types. So while a VGA-3RCA breakout cable will carry RGB, the HDTV may not know what to do with it.

Now the HDTV may be able to work with an RGB signal over component connections but it is very hit and miss and really dependent on the TV. I have seen it on video monitors but only sometimes on TV's.

The other related issue is that he is driving 5 displays. So there must be some kind of DA and probably a switch. Those device might pass an RGB signal and some of the TV's might take it(lots of ifs). Or the DA or switch may just throw the signal out.

Apple TV would be easier because it will do component standards easily.

Durandal549 said:

I forget what the term is, but when there is no display communication to the mac, display preferences only gives RGB signal types....

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EDID = Extended Display Identification Data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data

SevenInchScrew said:

EDID = Extended Display Identification Data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data

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Thanks! Couldn't remember and didn't want to take the time to look it up

Nice piece of gear! I do large venue AV events and we have started to go a smiler route with cat5/6 senders. And a having the matrix switch as well is really nice.

I had an idea. Take a look at this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4714
It looks like it was made to solve the problem you have.

You could hook that up to an HDMI or DVI port on the HDTV to grab the EDID info. Then hook it up to the mac with DVI with EDID info that includes component resolutions and use a DVI-3RCA into the matrix. That might actually work. The manual seems to indicate it will anyway. And it is only $70.

akaSurreal said:

Hmm yeah that is an interesting route.

Is that different from what I did? Which was:

1) Bought this: http://www.curtpalme.com/TC1500.shtm
2) Hooked up my TV to Mac Mini DVI and grabbed EDID info
3) Hooked up transcoder (1) and used DisplayConfigX to match the EDID info.

Unfortunately this didn't work right for some reason. I was able to get an image at times, but it was messed up. (wrong size, rounded corners, flickering pieces, etc) not synced

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First let me say that I am fairly confident in my theory about what is happening in your situation. Normally when I am doing things like this it is a bigger convention/show situation with a video switcher/scaler involved. Units that cost a lot but will take anything you throw at it and change it to anything else. Take it with a grain of salt, but I think I know what the issue is.

Why does that converter not work?
Because it is changing the color space and I think some sync things, but not the resolution. For example the TC1500 faq says:

"Does the TC1500 change the resolution? Upconvert or downcovert?
The TC1500 does not change the resolution or refresh rate in any way. It simply converts a VGA (RGBHV) input signal to a component signal. The TC1500 outputs whatever resolution you feed it. Absolutely nothing is changed."

A similar device I found has the same fine print:
These units are not format converters. They pass the horizontal and vertical synchronization timings and pixel content to the outputs without modification.

So basically they solve only half the problem, color space. Resolution is still an issue.

I did find this. It has a fairly good explanation and some resolutions that work. http://www.jwardell.com/info/minihtpc.html

Now you mentioned that sometimes you could get one TV to work but not others. Resolution issues is the reason. different TV's will have different "native" resolutions, based on the physical characteristics of the type of panel used. All HDTV's have to accept the HDTV spec resolutions. Basically HDTV's have very basic scalers that take a very limited number of resolutions. Usually just the spec ones and whatever the native panel is.

Example time:
All the TV's will accept spec 720p or 1080i
TVA will take 1366x768
TVB will take 1280x792
TVC-E will take "whatever"

If you had one HDTV, you could play with resolutions and find one that might not be to spec but close enough that the HDTV will display it. Trying to find a resolution they all "play nice with" probably isn't going to happen.

So I think it comes back around to the same issue of needing to get the mac to display the spec HDTV.

Another example:
My projector is hooked up DVI-HDMI to my mini. Display preferences knows that and gives 720p60 as an option because of the EDID. I don't know if the color space is RGB or YPbPr because that is a setting I can change on the projector. So it could be the mini that "knows" to output YPbPr, or the projector "knows" to convert the RGB to correctly. Also it is HDMI so there is probably other things going on.

Really long post but I think that Gefen device would solve your resolution issue. It may even solve the color space issue but even if it doesn't you already have the TC1500 that will.

Wow long post, sorry.