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arn
Jun 20, 2002, 07:32 AM
Mac-TV.de (http://www.mac-tv.de/index.html) (translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mac-tv.de%2Findex.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)) posted a questionable rumor regarding Superdrive in the TiBook by MacWorld NY.

The limiting factor for Superdrive availability in the TiBook is due to form-factor issues. The ComboDrive (DVD/CD-R) has only become available for the TiBook in the past year due to the same design constraints. Only Pioneer and Apple know when such a design will become available.

Related article: Sanyo's Super Combo Drive (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/05/20020529172415.shtml) due in summer.

edesignuk
Jun 20, 2002, 07:33 AM
Please god let it be true! :D
I would love for when I come to get my 1Ghz TiBook for it to have a SuperDrive!

Mr. Anderson
Jun 20, 2002, 07:47 AM
I think its only a matter of time. Whether MWNY 02 is the time or not remains to be seen.

iGav
Jun 20, 2002, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by verbose101
Please god let it be true! :D
I would love for when I come to get my 1Ghz TiBook for it to have a SuperDrive!

How cool would that be........ I'm just not really expecting a Superdrive in the TiBook for awhile yet though....... although as ever..... Apple can prove me wrong if they feel like it......

I can't wait to lay my hands on a 1Ghz TiBook though..... :D

Anyone know anybody who works for Pioneer??? :p

dekator
Jun 20, 2002, 08:06 AM
The article more specifically states that the rumor is based on a "slip of tongue". An Apple support member apparently told a customer that the new TiBooks would come with Superdrives ("yes, you can burn DVDs with that"). According to the support person the entry-level model will remain at 667MHz but will also come with a Superdrive ! No combo...
Asked whether these new models would see light at MCNY in July, the Apple person bit his tongue and abruptly changed the subject.
Interestingly, the whole issue came up when the customer asked about "a certain replaceable part" ! An upgrade option ????

Well, anyway, it's hard to believe such information would leak out ...
More probably the support guy wasn't well trained (as happens too often).
Still, would be nice... sniff

nerickson
Jun 20, 2002, 08:28 AM
If this comes true at MWNY, Apple will have an instant sale of a top of the line PowerBook from me. My original PBG4 500 is getting really old (gee, a whole year). It is a great computer but FCP would be a heckuva lot better on a 1ghz PBG4 with a Superdrive!

Whether it is next month or Jan. I hope the price doesn't go up.

.... how stupid of a statement was that? duh

drastik
Jun 20, 2002, 08:40 AM
oh yeah, you'll see a price bump.

But still, the older machines, even the 800s will come down. Everybody wants top of the line, but if this "upgrade" bit about the superdrive is a possibility, I might go down a model and do that.

We've bee hearing a lot about surprises at MWNY, maybe this is a big clue. Maybe the whole line is going to super drive, maybe they can make for like twenty bucks now, and the'll just pop in everything.:D

Blackcat
Jun 20, 2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by dekator
The article more specifically states that the rumor is based on a "slip of tongue". An Apple support member apparently told a customer that the new TiBooks would come with Superdrives ("yes, you can burn DVDs with that"). According to the support person the entry-level model will remain at 667MHz but will also come with a Superdrive ! No combo...

*if* that's true then we're seeing an all new TiBook with MPEG2 encoding hardware built in, as a 667 isn't powerful enough to encode a DVD.

Apple bought Raycer for a reason...

britboy
Jun 20, 2002, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by drastik

Maybe the whole line is going to super drive, maybe they can make for like twenty bucks now, and the'll just pop in everything.:D


Not likely, considering that the dvr-104 (the current top-line superdrive) costs $429.

britboy
Jun 20, 2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Blackcat

.....a 667 isn't powerful enough to encode a DVD.



But a 733 was? Even a 500 could be used for encoding a DVD. It would take a bit longer, but still get there in the end.

iH8Quark
Jun 20, 2002, 09:04 AM
not to be a pessimist, but support people have no more info than you and I have. I would like to believe this, but it seems extremely unlikely that he knows what he's talking about.

even so, I don't think it would be a standard feature of the low end model. It's not even standard in the towers. IMHO, of course.

iGav
Jun 20, 2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by britboy



But a 733 was? Even a 500 could be used for encoding a DVD. It would take a bit longer, but still get there in the end.

I've not had a problem encoding MPEG 2 on my TiBook 500....... nor have I had problems developing DVD's either.......

bretm
Jun 20, 2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Blackcat


*if* that's true then we're seeing an all new TiBook with MPEG2 encoding hardware built in, as a 667 isn't powerful enough to encode a DVD.

Apple bought Raycer for a reason...

Funny, I burn DVDs on my G4 350 all the time. I had no idea it wasn't possible. I'll stop right away.

Wish someone had told me a quadra was too slow for video editing all those years ago as well.:)

edesignuk
Jun 20, 2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by bretm


Funny, I burn DVDs on my G4 350 all the time. I had no idea it wasn't possible. I'll stop right away.

Wish someone had told me a quadra was too slow for video editing all those years ago as well.:)
He didn't say burning DVD's, he said encoding DVD's, the two things are both very different.

ewinemiller
Jun 20, 2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by britboy



Not likely, considering that the dvr-104 (the current top-line superdrive) costs $429.

Might be a little more likely than you think. Pricegrabber is listing the lowest price as $275 and that's for us retail folks. Wholesale to a large customer like Apple is probably quite a bit cheaper.

kiwi_the_iwik
Jun 20, 2002, 09:56 AM
Well - if this line of discussion has a hint of reality about these new drives, then my little Cube will be able to muscle with the best of them (as long as they've ironed out the bugs regarding the drive platten being at right-angles).

Imagine a Cube with the new slot-loading Superdrive, bundled with 1.5Gb of ram, a 120Gb hard drive, and one of Powerlogix's new 1Gb upgrade chips (and possibly, in the future, a new Dual-Gig. processor, if the temperature can be kept low enough with the new G4 chip design)...

Hard to beat, you'd have to admit.:)

eyelikeart
Jun 20, 2002, 09:58 AM
I figured it would only be a matter of time before we started seeing superdrives in the Ti. I'm wondering how much more we'll have to pay to see them though. Next year I'll be in the market to replace my Rev. A...so I'll be in line waiting for mine... ;)

edesignuk
Jun 20, 2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
...so I'll be in line waiting for mine... ;)
hehehe, along with the rest of us! :D
Hey, get in the queue, I was here first :p

Rajj
Jun 20, 2002, 10:07 AM
With technology these days...... anything is possible!!!:confused: Besides Toshiba has 1.8 inch HDD, this is the wave of the future!!!
I hope it is not as slow as the current ones!!!

britboy
Jun 20, 2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by verbose101

hehehe, along with the rest of us! :D
Hey, get in the queue, I was here first :p


So this makes three of us waiting for the next rev :p

edesignuk
Jun 20, 2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by britboy

So this makes three of us waiting for the next rev :p
3 and counting I would think, the next rev is gonna be brilliant! :D
I can't wait! Bring it on Apple!

Blackcat
Jun 20, 2002, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by verbose101

He didn't say burning DVD's, he said encoding DVD's, the two things are both very different.

Exactly. You can burn a DVD on a Powerbook 1400 if you have the MPEG2 file on your HD, but downloading from DV, editing and encoding requires a G4 733 minimum according to Apple, and that was for 60 minutes of video in 2 hours. Dual 800s were billed as doing 90 minutes at 1:1 encode:burn ratio in 90 minutes.

Things might be different now, with iDVD allowing faster encoding, but before they were definately saying 733 minimum.

I hope I'm wrong, as I can afford a Ti667 but not a Ti800 :)

iGav
Jun 20, 2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Exactly. You can burn a DVD on a Powerbook 1400 if you have the MPEG2 file on your HD, but downloading from DV, editing and encoding requires a G4 733 minimum according to Apple, and that was for 60 minutes of video in 2 hours. Dual 800s were billed as doing 90 minutes at 1:1 encode:burn ratio in 90 minutes.

Things might be different now, with iDVD allowing faster encoding, but before they were definately saying 733 minimum.

I hope I'm wrong, as I can afford a Ti667 but not a Ti800 :)

You are indeed wrong Sir......... a TiBook 667 will do MPEG 2 video just fine.... the minimum specs for DVD Studio Pro state that you need a G4 processor....... a G3 would struggle, although with Cleaner it is possible to encode in MPEG 2 but obviously this will take longer....... DVD authoring was happening way before G4's and DVD Studio Pro were released so it is possible without a G4......

Capturing and cutting DV on a TiBook 500 is a piece of p*ss if you have the memory, HD space, and fast enough drives....... encoding it as MPEG 2 is what takes the time....... the only difference between a 773 and a 500 G4 is that the 733 obviously will be faster..........

Blackcat
Jun 20, 2002, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by iGAV


You are indeed wrong Sir......... a TiBook 667 will do MPEG 2 video just fine.... the minimum specs for DVD Studio Pro state that you need a G4 processor....... a G3 would struggle, although with Cleaner it is possible to encode in MPEG 2 but obviously this will take longer....... DVD authoring was happening way before G4's and DVD Studio Pro were released so it is possible without a G4......


Probably not much before G4s, and on much more expensive hardware I'd imagine.

It's a shame we can't do multilayer burning currently, that would be very cool but would upset the MPAA a lot I'd guess.


Capturing and cutting DV on a TiBook 500 is a piece of p*ss if you have the memory, HD space, and fast enough drives....... encoding it as MPEG 2 is what takes the time....... the only difference between a 773 and a 500 G4 is that the 733 obviously will be faster..........

So the 667 with it's L3 should be roughly the same as a 733 (or a bit slower). Groovy.

I want one.

iGav
Jun 20, 2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Probably not much before G4s, and on much more expensive hardware I'd imagine.

It's a shame we can't do multilayer burning currently, that would be very cool but would upset the MPAA a lot I'd guess.

[B]

So the 667 with it's L3 should be roughly the same as a 733 (or a bit slower). Groovy.

I want one.

G3's back in the late 90's..... you have to remember at the time the G3 was as fast as they come...... so you don't consider that it could be done faster....... for developing and authoring I used to use Sonic DVD creator... at the time it was fairly expensive... but again it's relative...... at the time it was pretty much the best DVD solution available....... so you'd pay the money..... it was the same though with editing systems with the likes of Avid charging tens of thousands, then Media 100 doing it for thousands..... and now Final Cut Pro coming in at a grand....... and IMHO is better than both Avid and Media 100 now.......

Multi-layered DVD's have never been a problem, as I always use disk mastering facilities.........

The 667 is a fast machine..... and is more than capable of doing DV cutting, post work, encoding, dvd authoring etc....... so no worries about that..... interms of RAW speed..... I'd say it's probably on a par with a 733......

What are you wanting to do exactly anyway???

Blackcat
Jun 20, 2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by iGAV

What are you wanting to do exactly anyway???

Own one.
That's all.
:D

bretm
Jun 20, 2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by verbose101

He didn't say burning DVD's, he said encoding DVD's, the two things are both very different.

They sure are different things. You're right, I do have to encode them before I burn them. Of course.

bretm
Jun 20, 2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Exactly. You can burn a DVD on a Powerbook 1400 if you have the MPEG2 file on your HD, but downloading from DV, editing and encoding requires a G4 733 minimum according to Apple, and that was for 60 minutes of video in 2 hours. Dual 800s were billed as doing 90 minutes at 1:1 encode:burn ratio in 90 minutes.

Things might be different now, with iDVD allowing faster encoding, but before they were definately saying 733 minimum.

I hope I'm wrong, as I can afford a Ti667 but not a Ti800 :)

On my G4 350 I installed a superdrive. It works flawlessly. iDVD 2 takes about 3-4 hours to encode AND burn a 60minute DVD. It encodes in the background while you're creating so that might save a little time, but the majority gets done when you hit burn.

iGav
Jun 20, 2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Own one.
That's all.
:D

I hear ya!!! :p :p

Nipsy
Jun 20, 2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by britboy



Not likely, considering that the dvr-104 (the current top-line superdrive) costs $429.

The DVR-104 is available retail for $261 (dealmac.com), so Apple's price is prolly about $150.

Tack on Apple's 28%, and you're looking at $192.

Nebrie
Jun 20, 2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Nipsy


The DVR-104 is available retail for $261 (dealmac.com), so Apple's price is prolly about $150.

Tack on Apple's 28%, and you're looking at $192.

$150 yeah right. This isn't clothing. Tech margins aren't 50% especially at black market prices.

Screamingbeaver
Jun 20, 2002, 04:47 PM
Hey bretm,
Where did you get a Superdrive and what did it cost? If you don't mind me askin'? I've got a G4 400 I would love to through a Superdrive in. I guess I never thought an after market one would work, especially with iDVD. Did you order the iDVD CD from Apple?

Thanks,
'Beaver

DavPeanut
Jun 20, 2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Nebrie
$150 yeah right. This isn't clothing. Tech margins aren't 50% especially at black market prices.
What does apple have to pay for its supplies like the the superdrives and the proccessors and the HD's? I've always wanted to know these things. Oh! And how much are the RAM chips in that kind of bulk?

On another topic, can apple start using 1 Gb RAM Chips now? I know that they are out there.

Longey Nowze
Jun 21, 2002, 06:31 AM
no one mentioned battery life? if it takes 90 min to encode a 90 min DVD then there wouldn't be much left and I think that encoding to MPEG 2 will be very power consuming so maybe Apple found a way to make it less power consuming and much faster.. I wouldn't rule out what blackcat said about built in hardware for encoding... could it be software?? maybe it's built in jaguar?? :confused: or maybe they are using new batteries :confused: I can't wait for MWNY!!! AAAHHH

THANK YOU
MaT

iGav
Jun 21, 2002, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Longey Nowze
no one mentioned battery life? if it takes 90 min to encode a 90 min DVD then there wouldn't be much left and I think that encoding to MPEG 2 will be very power consuming so maybe Apple found a way to make it less power consuming and much faster.. I wouldn't rule out what blackcat said about built in hardware for encoding... could it be software?? maybe it's built in jaguar?? :confused: or maybe they are using new batteries :confused: I can't wait for MWNY!!! AAAHHH

THANK YOU
MaT

A better battery would certainly be a bonus....... but just because a computer is portable..... we do plug them in though......... we don't always run off a battery....... I use mine as a complete replacement for a desktop... that's why I'd like a built in DVD burner.....

I think it's nigh on impossible to encode 90 mins od DV in MPEG 2 on a single battery...... I can render part projects from Combustion and flattening my battery in much less than an hour........ but I can't render the entire projects......

Longey Nowze
Jun 21, 2002, 09:28 AM
I have a pismo and I use mainly as a desktop too mostly plugged in... but when I travel I take it with me but not everyone who buys a portable is like that some actually need to work while on the road... if Apple is planning on putting a superdrive they should find a way to increase the battery life... at least by two hours!

THANK YOU
MaT

iGav
Jun 21, 2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Longey Nowze
I have a pismo and I use mainly as a desktop too mostly plugged in... but when I travel I take it with me but not everyone who buys a portable is like that some actually need to work while on the road... if Apple is planning on putting a superdrive they should find a way to increase the battery life... at least by two hours!

THANK YOU
MaT

A 2 hour increase in battery life would be great... but I'm not so sure it'd be possible at the moment...... remember though that a 2 hour increase is relative.... it wouldn't give me an extra 2 hours rendering... but may give me an extra 2 hours say typing.......

I do use mine alot in the field, or on trains...... that's part of been a freelancer...... I know that some people pretty much never access a desk... in which case you need a hefty supply of batteries there really is no way around it....... but again increased batter time would be a welcome addition...... :)

mr.w
Jun 21, 2002, 09:32 PM
if a built in superdrive is possible, how about a dual processor? is that even possible?

iGav
Jun 22, 2002, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by mr.w
if a built in superdrive is possible, how about a dual processor? is that even possible?

Stop that now....... :eek: that's my dream machine you're describing there :p

To me that'd be the almost perfect machine...... :D there's been alot of debate about squeezing in both the SuperDrive (current physical dimensions excluded this..... but things get smaller) and dual processors into the TiBook casing....

I do honestly believe that they could make a dual processored TiBook..... of course there are heat issues and power consumption issues.... power consumption can be sorted by switching off extra processor if needed.... plus with new battery technology that currently isn't used in the TiBook battery they may be able to get a little more run time......

With regards to the heat issues...... well my Rev A does get hot....... but because we hear that the latest G4 is running cooler, and that if they junked the PC card slot to gain more space...... and with a re-engineering of the motherboard etc (they did it with the eMac) I do believe that they could have an extra processor in the TiBook........

I could certainly use a dual superdrived TiBook as my only machine is currently a TiBook and this acts as my desktop replacement....... so I could certainly use the extra features.... but still maintain the portability that I currently require because of the nature of my work........

Cappy
Jun 23, 2002, 11:37 AM
I would like to hope that Apple is doing their research and figuring out how many folks would really need/purchase a superdrive in a powerbook. Lots of us can talk about how cool or gee-whiz it would be but how many would really buy one? It'd probably be a $600-$700 option at todays prices.

That would be one expensive laptop that wouldn't last long on batteries if burning and not plugged in to an ac outlet.

SeanPalma
Jun 23, 2002, 02:01 PM
Part of Apple's success and envy is based on how they get away with rippings us for such huge margins. Time magazine said it is estimated at 40% & higher! I could care less, whatever keeps Apple in business and Jobs in blue jeans and black turttle necks blabering on at Apple functions. Apple brings to life a very old (tired) saying. "You get what you pay for."

Clothing margins 50%...lol If your Nike's were made in the USA you would be wearing $800 sneakers.


LATER

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The DVR-104 is available retail for $261 (dealmac.com), so Apple's price is prolly about $150.

Tack on Apple's 28%, and you're looking at $192.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



$150 yeah right. This isn't clothing. Tech margins aren't 50% especially at black market prices.



Report

iGav
Jun 27, 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Cappy
I would like to hope that Apple is doing their research and figuring out how many folks would really need/purchase a superdrive in a powerbook. Lots of us can talk about how cool or gee-whiz it would be but how many would really buy one? It'd probably be a $600-$700 option at todays prices.

That would be one expensive laptop that wouldn't last long on batteries if burning and not plugged in to an ac outlet.

If Apple released a tiBook tomorrow that had dual 1ghz G4's and a SuperDrive..... I'd buy it tomorrow..... plain and simple... I use my TiBook as a desktop replacement... so I'd like as many features as I possibly could...... and with the type of work that I do....... Dual processors and a SuperDrive whilst maintaining portability would be a God send to me... and make my life far easier......

Anyway many places now allow you to plug your laptop in to a mains supply..... I know pubs and bars do, as do some restaurants.... even trains in the UK are beginning to get power sockets........ so that may help with power consumption issues.....