I'm officially becoming one of those LowEndMacs wackos [Archive]

coupdetat

Mar 12, 2009, 11:08 AM

edgew8

Mar 12, 2009, 02:01 PM

agreed. I don't like this whole direction of glossy on everything monitors either, I have a PPC iMac and will use it till its dead and the only new mac I will get is the white intel iMac because I need XP once and while and because it doesn't have the cheap glossy panel.
I also don't get the whole move to no longer sell the lovely ACD's except for the 30" and who knows how long before they drop that. I see ACD's on TV all the time and they are beautiful and NOT GLOSSY!, why would Apple get rid of them? oh that's right to peddle the crappy glossy 24" LED display. Also, no more X-macs like the G3-G4 era, That is truly sad.
Apple seems more and more less of a computer company and more like Sony these days. I think it is great that they are making fat cash and still making American stock holders money in this crap economy but I do miss the old Apple.

likemyorbs

Mar 12, 2009, 02:47 PM

i dont agree. i love old macs but the new ones are still amazing. what about them dont you like?

Winni

Mar 12, 2009, 03:03 PM

what about them dont you like?

Why don't you just read his post? He's said it all and he's got some very valid points.

Lord Blackadder

Mar 12, 2009, 03:08 PM

I'm still using G4s, a 15" PowerBook and Power Mac G4 "Digital Audio". Office 2008 runs pretty well on both.

If I was getting a pair of new computers I'd consider an EeePC laptop (or whatever it's called), I like the idea of a barebones lightweight mobile computer. But I'd also need a Mac Pro.

When you mentioned LEM, I thought we were going to be talking about older Macs...like 68k machines. I still have a handful of those. Just booted up my PowerBook 170 the other day and it still works.

I think the current Vaios are ugly though. Actually, I still find ALL PC laptops are ugly and clunky in comparison to Mac laptops. The PC laptops touted as being attractive look fussy or gaudy IMO. I love the simple shape, nothing-to-catch-on design of Apple's laptops. Function aside, their form factor has yet to be equaled or bettered in the PC world.

likemyorbs

Mar 12, 2009, 10:31 PM

Why don't you just read his post? He's said it all and he's got some very valid points.

Actually, all he said was that apple no longer has the "startup"/underdog mentality, which isnt very specific. he failed to mention what he doesnt like about the new machines that are currently being released so i asked a simple, lighthearted question. so next time you feel like posting douche bag comments just to make yourself feel special, dont.

Roderick Usher

Mar 13, 2009, 01:23 AM

I think Apple has just gotten complacent and is no longer being run in the competitive "startup"/underdog mentality. After years of getting awesome hardware and software releases on a regular basis, we're not left with much of anything these days. I think the last Mac Mini and iPod shuffle updates are what really drove the point home.
Those statements would get you eviscerated in some of the upper forums, but you're reasonably safe down here in the Apple Collectors ghetto. ;) And I 100% agree. What we've been getting for the last several years, Mac-wise, have been iterations on the same product lineup. Slicker, sleeker, faster each time - but still essentially the same lineup. I've heard it argued that there's not much room for improvement left, that you can't revolutionize what's already perfect... but that's tunnel-visioned crap. This is technology, and these are computers we're talking about here, the most general-purpose device ever invented. Of course there's room for improvement, there's room for a revolution. And what better company than Apple to do it? The question is, do they still have it in them?

MacTech68

Mar 13, 2009, 03:11 AM

I'm really in two minds about the OP's statement.

Firstly, I've been repairing and using Apple Computers for over 20 years.

Secondly, I'm still amazed that within that time we've come from no Hard Drives at all, no mice (mouses?), and 48K of memory to desktop video editing, worldwide video/audio communications, 1000GB hard drives, 4GB RAM and more recently, multi-touch screens.

I think the biggest problem for the real innovators is that the pace of innovation is expected to be much quicker than it used to be. This IMHO, relies on two things. The technology to produce an idea needs to be available, technically viable and reasonably inexpensive, and you need "great ideas" people.

I think people's expectations on true innovation are way ahead of what is truly possible. The pace of this industry may have become faster than is sustainable in terms of innovation.

If you bring all computing down to grass roots level, there hasn't really been any innovation in personal computing since the mouse and GUI.

I should add that my home has 2 G3's and 2 G4's currently in daily use, but I would love to have the speed of a more recent C2D Intel Mac.

What I'm waiting for is for Apple to use multi-touch screens as your mouse. No trackpad. Just the screen. Now, how do you right-click a screen? :D
________
macintosh games (http://macgame.org)

suburbiton

Mar 13, 2009, 03:18 AM

Granted, I still thought the MBA was an amazing machine, and probably the only innovative thing Apple has done in a long time.

So true - cos my iPhone is just like every other mobile phone I've had in the past.

Roderick Usher

Mar 13, 2009, 09:59 AM

I think the biggest problem for the real innovators is that the pace of innovation is expected to be much quicker than it used to be. This IMHO, relies on two things. The technology to produce an idea needs to be available, technically viable and reasonably inexpensive, and you need "great ideas" people.

I think people's expectations on true innovation are way ahead of what is truly possible. The pace of this industry may have become faster than is sustainable in terms of innovation.
Those are points well taken - huge shifts in computing can't be expected to be commonplace, but I think that's somewhat balanced out by the fact that the means for new technology to get to market have accelerated alongside the technology itself; it's easier than ever, logistically, for some awesome new thing to become a consumer reality, and even more so for Apple, who, when they want to bring something new to market, simply do it. (Not that it's anywhere as easy behind-the-scenes as that makes it sound, but they still stand in marked contrast to, say, IBM, who has a history of inventing amazing new things - their R&D is second to none - and then putting them in a drawer. They actually had Coppermine-equivalent technology before Intel.)

YuriVoorhak

Mar 13, 2009, 06:08 PM

I agree the product line gets more or less refined as time goes on. The only big shifts I can think of since The Return Of Jobs stabilized are the mini and the cube. I'm okay with that, though I do miss the days of left field entries like the eMate.

My beef is that the earlier PPC era Macs were simply of a higher build quality. As market share goes up, so does the number of times I have to drag a box to the Apple Store. My last four machines have all had to go in multiple times. It's come to the point where I'm getting AppleCare on desktop machines, something I never would have thought to do back in the day. =/

Dmac77

Mar 13, 2009, 11:54 PM

I'm going to disagree with the OP for the most part. I think that Apple has grown leaps and bounds since switching to Intel. The computers are much faster then the PPC Macs, and in general the hardware has drastically improved.

That said, I'm disappointed with the lack of choice on screens. I would prefer to be able to get a 15" MBP with a matte display, but I can't, but I'll still take a Mac over some Winshit PC. I'm also disappointed with the removal of FW on the MBs. It seems that Apple is attempting to please the un-computer-savvy crowd, and not the pro and prosumer crowd nowadays.

Don

jodelli

Mar 14, 2009, 04:31 AM

I have this feeling some thing new is coming down the pike.

It's happened before when the Apple line begins to get stale, going back to the original Mac, which was a move away from the several year old 8 bit Apple II line.

The first Power Books were wonderful machines, in a completely different league from the suitcase size Mac Portable.

The first G3 desktops about 1997 were outwardly indistinguishable from the older Power Mac generation. But the iMac took nearly everyone by surprise.

The move to Intel, who saw that one coming? The G5s were noticeably slow to evolve mostly due to the power consumption of the PPC form factor.

I'm not crossing my fingers though. If it happens, bonus.

Cassie

Mar 14, 2009, 04:39 AM

Heh, me and a friend were having a debate about this earlier tonight.

Truthfully, I think Apple doesn't care anymore. The machines they make no longer have that "Appleish" feel. I've always been a PPC fanatic, but it goes deeper then that.

Apple is once again, coming to a halt in terms of innovation and surprise. They're relying too much on the switchers to bring in their cash, and they've forgotten about the people of the PPC era.

Intel could have been a good thing. And it was at first. But somehow, Apple has taken the wrong path, and they need to go back to basics.

MattZani

Mar 14, 2009, 09:21 AM

The PPC Macs had a certain Charm about them, and i love my iMac G3, but my MBP looks so much better, and has enough power for me at the moment (Geektool says im using 7% CPU). I Guess a PPC PowerMac could work, as it had the clock speed, but the Intel Macs look so modern! I Love the Aluminium too, and the Line is great at the Moment.

Roderick Usher

Mar 14, 2009, 10:49 AM

Edit: n/m.

claimjumper

Mar 16, 2009, 11:49 PM

Can't fault you for buying what you perceive as a good value. Granted the Apples have always been expensive. There was a time when processor speed and drive capacity doubled every year or so as manufacturing processes improved. That has pretty much leveled off in the last few years. Today we are getting multiple processors instead and finally software that can make use of them. Since a core 2 duo and a serial ATA are the same no matter the platform the machine is running, I will propose that Apple's greatest strength is in their software. Applications that allow the average Joe to be creative and to do it quickly and easily without having to fight with his operating system at every turn. I'm more than happy to pay the premium for this ease of use.

ceezy3000

Mar 16, 2009, 11:51 PM

i love old macs, theres trhis sort of, nostalgia, or rather, this feeling that well i cant explain, PPC 4ever

marbles

Mar 17, 2009, 12:02 AM

Typing this on a PPC iMac , a 500Mhz Graphite summer 2000, great machine which just keeps chugging along, getting a bit slow for video because of the quality being streamed and software bloat(so am told) but ye, cool machines..My experience with Macs 2005+ has been dire, every one bought has been in the shop within a month or three or DOA,

I'm hoping my recent order delivers good machines but I'm not holding my breath.

bunit

Mar 17, 2009, 01:09 AM

He does have some good points. Although I only started using macs again (besides an old Apple II back in the day) when they started with the Intel chips. But after using OSX, I could never own a windows machine again.

skinniezinho

Mar 17, 2009, 09:21 AM

I can't talk by experience,because my only mac is my ibook g3,but from what I think I would feel if I buy for example a macbook (wich I know +- because one of my home mates have one) is that I paid 1000eur for "just" a 600eur pc with a some unibody case,in the powerpc era you got what no one else's got in terms of hardware...maybe it wasn't thaaat better (I don't know) but at least it was very different...
Like others said Apple is not know (now) from great reliability,like it was before,it is not thaaaaaaat innovative as it was before,so maybe we are paying for something just a "little" better than other+macOS X...
I do think macbooks and macbook pros are good machines,but not as good as ibooks and powerbooks were versus it's opponents..

mcavjame

Mar 17, 2009, 09:41 AM

The biggest draw for me to Apple is the OS. Stability and maintenance is much better for me than it ever was on a PC (windows) machine.

Consider this though; as a video editor, it used to take in excess of 2 hours to transcode a video on my G5 Power Mac. It takes roughly 12 minutes to do the same task on my Mac Pro.

People complain about the lack of design change on the exterior of the machine (I don't mind it). The interior, however, it beautiful. Almost no tools required to work on the interior. Hard drives snap into place. It has never been easier to add or swap out RAM. Access to the PCI slots is easy and uncramped.

An absolute beauty of a machine to operate and maintain. Given the consideration to the design of the interior, this machine will last me for at least 4 more years. I don't work with PCs any longer, but I would be surprised to find a machine as well designed by any other company.

neonblue2

Mar 17, 2009, 09:54 AM

The sad thing is that I'm more productive on my PPC Macs than on the MBA, because Office runs so much faster on the PPC platform. Office 2004 launches instantly on a G4, yet both 2004 (via Rosetta) and 2008 are dog-slow on modern Intel Macs.

Then don't use Office. Use an Office-compatible alternative like OpenOffice, NeoOffice or iWork.

coupdetat

Mar 17, 2009, 11:08 PM

Then don't use Office. Use an Office-compatible alternative like OpenOffice, NeoOffice or iWork.

...your sig says you're 17, what do you know about productivity? OpenOffice and its derivatives are terrible--I would never cheap out on something critical to my job and school. iWork is good, but limited. Numbers, especially, is unusable.

I'm studying biomedical engineering so I use Matlab, Mathematica, and Excel heavily--both Matlab and Excel are much worse on OSX than on Windows. Also, Origin is an incredible Windows-only graphing package that I use during summer internships. Nothing on Mac comes close to it.

OSX is still way superior though. I've already had numerous crashes in Vista, mostly related to searching and file operations. None have brought the machine down, but have necessitated an Explorer restart. Ultimately, the hassle of dealing with Vista are outweighed by the time and hassle I save with applications, as well as the hardware/cost advantages. Not having to hunt around for outlets in the library is a HUGE benefit.

gkarris

Mar 18, 2009, 10:12 AM

I'm officially becoming one of those LowEndMacs wackos.

So, you spend most of your free time hitting "refresh" on Apple's Mac Mini page, hoping for an update???

:D
I sold my MacBook Air last night and replaced it with a Vaio TZ2500...

Anyways, that's my rant. In a nutshell, I love PPC's. In the Intel age, I think it's just a better value to get a PC.

I know the feeling. I've always loved low-end and pizza-box Macs. I cringed and purchased a Black MacBook refurbished ($1049 + AppleCare + upgrades :eek:). I still feel "weird" taking it out in public and keeping it in my car, thinking it will be stolen, crushed, ruined, etc. after paying all that money.

I don't feel that way at all with my cheap-o Acer laptop I paid $379 for... :)

Enjoy your Sony - everyone I know that has one has never had a problem with it.

seamus26

Mar 31, 2009, 07:52 AM

The problem that I see with Apple - and it isn't really a problem with Apple - is that like everything that is a progression they are continually compared with what they've done in the past. How many times have you heard that a band's new release "isn't nearly as good as their first album". It's the same thing. Apple has always been an innovative company. The Newton, iMac, iPod ... there's a long list. The new Macs are beautiful and powerful. They are hands down huge improvements over older machines. I love my '89 Volvo 240, but would I take a new S60? You bet! All Macs have their place ... many of them in my home. I love all of my Macs from my Classic to our Intel iMac. And pricing? I hear a lot of complaints, but you get what you pay for. back in '95 I paid $2100 for a Performa 638CD with a Color StyleWriter 2400. We paid almost exactly the same amount thirteen years later for the new iMac with the Epson RX595. I've got no complaints.

dmmcintyre3

Apr 24, 2009, 04:51 AM

I liked the old MBP and cinema display better. Too bad I have to go back 2 years in age to get a reliable one. I am weary of buying another two year old computer like I did with my PB because the PB is slow. I have had the PB 1.5 years. For some reason I think that the 2.33 GHz if I buy it will be not able to run the current OS in 2 years after I buy it if I bought it on SL release day.

Low End Mac is a great site. I visit there every day just like MacRumors.

My favorite 2 computer designs:
iMac G4
PowerBook G4 / non unibody MacBook Pro

Give me a computer with today's specs in those cases and I will buy it. I do not care that the design is from 2004 or older I like it better.

TheReef

Apr 24, 2009, 05:27 AM

I'm actually pleased what they did with the Mac mini, didn't make it horrible and black, added dual displays and *ADDED* FW 800. Depends on what you see value in I guess.

I've been a little displeased with Apple's PPC laptops and the ball soldier binding quality of various components/chips…however I was amazed to see the 9400M go into the white Macbook.

Favorites would have to be the Pismo G3, eMac, G5 tower, Cube, Blackbook and G4 iMac.

In all I think regardless of the architecture or age, there have been some really great and not so good machines.

McKnight

Apr 24, 2009, 06:24 AM

skinniezinho

Apr 24, 2009, 11:18 AM

Apple's a business and they've grown by 50% market share this year alone. They recently published a massive profit for the last financial year. They're doing great, quite the opposite of the general "apple is getting worse" vibe in this thread.

What do that type of statement has to do with what is discussed here?
Apple can sell 300x more or whatever,that doesn't make it better...
You see lot's of people complaining about glassy monitors,problems with graphic cards,etc etc,for me that is not growing up in the good..they will sell more it's true..but that has to do with the line being cheaper and "more beautiful" and that atract people too.

student_trap

May 2, 2009, 09:49 PM

I sold my MacBook Air last night and replaced it with a Vaio TZ2500. That puts me back to PPC-only Macs--I still own a 12" PowerBook and a 600mhz iMac G3. I have to say, I've become pretty disenchanted with modern Macs. I usually find the people on LEM to be a bunch of wackos, but I really have to agree that the old Macs were the best.

I think Apple has just gotten complacent and is no longer being run in the competitive "startup"/underdog mentality. After years of getting awesome hardware and software releases on a regular basis, we're not left with much of anything these days. I think the last Mac Mini and iPod shuffle updates are what really drove the point home.

Granted, I still thought the MBA was an amazing machine, and probably the only innovative thing Apple has done in a long time. Unfortunately I can't justify keeping around two ultraportables.

After looking at pricing on the TZ that I'm typing on now, it just became too obvious that modern Macs aren't worth what Apple charges. I paid $1100 for this TZ, which came with a 64gb SSD as well as a 250gb HDD. It also runs about six hours on a charge, as opposed to 3-ish on the MBA, and has a gorgeous carbon fiber lid.

The sad thing is that I'm more productive on my PPC Macs than on the MBA, because Office runs so much faster on the PPC platform. Office 2004 launches instantly on a G4, yet both 2004 (via Rosetta) and 2008 are dog-slow on modern Intel Macs.

Anyways, that's my rant. In a nutshell, I love PPC's. In the Intel age, I think it's just a better value to get a PC.

Apart from your last statement, I completely agree. I too have been pretty disappointed with most of apple's offerings since the intel switch. For me, there was always something that I liked about the wackiness of apple design coupled with their inherent simplicity. The colour machines for example made them so much less like computers, it made them feel more creative (if that makes sense). Then the move to all white was great as again it was just so different.

Moving to all aluminium however doesn't get me in the same way, its like my girlfriend says to me when she see's my mac pro/acd combo...
" well it works really well, but it looks like a computer, it would be better if it looked a little more 'apple like'".

For the mean time then, I have been trying to get hold of some of those iconic designs. So far I have picked up an indigo imac and a G4 digital audio powermac, am looking to buy a ruby imac, and am waiting for an indigo ibook G3 to arrive in the post.

iMpathetic

May 8, 2009, 02:52 PM

I usually find the people on LEM to be a bunch of wackos,

Hey! Shut up! I write for them! :D

dmmcintyre3

May 10, 2009, 02:10 PM

What happened to machines like the iMac G4 and 12 inch PB? The MBA is the closest to this class of design but it is DEFIANTLY form over function. The iMac is too. I would like a low end tower (like in the old days before the iMac) Apple has made all in ones with PCI slots before. (look at some old all in one PowerMacs such as this (http://lowendmac.com/ppc/power-macintosh-5500.html))

(Yes I like Low End Mac)

Sehnsucht

May 11, 2009, 09:32 AM

After looking at pricing on the TZ that I'm typing on now, it just became too obvious that modern Macs aren't worth what Apple charges. I paid $1100 for this TZ, which came with a 64gb SSD as well as a 250gb HDD. It also runs about six hours on a charge, as opposed to 3-ish on the MBA, and has a gorgeous carbon fiber lid.

The VAIOs are pretty tasty. Sony is actually the only PC manufacturer who can make systems that are both high quality and don't cause one to go blind from their fugliness *points at HP* :eek: :eek:

If I were going to Hackint0sh a PC laptop, I'd definitely want a VAIO. Many of them even have chiclet keyboards just like Apple's notebooks.

coupdetat

May 13, 2009, 09:51 PM

Yikes. I bought a Zune 120gb today.

My iPod Photo 60gb died... I went into the Apple store to try the iPod Classic and oh my god was it laggy! The iPod Photo's clickwheel was easily usable in the car without looking at the screen, because the movement was always responsive and predictable. The Classic, on the other hand, responded slowly and inconsistently.

On the other hand, I'm seriously considering picking up an iMac G4. I miss being able to use Apple Pages and Keynote, I've done some of my best projects on those two apps.

Anyways, I totally agree with some of the points made here about Apple's new offerings being competent but not "Appley". They're boring!

Koodauw

May 13, 2009, 10:12 PM

I can understand everyones nostalgia for old Macs, but really the intel Macs are some of the best as far as the notebooks go. I can understand issues about only glossy screens etc, but thats more of a preference issue.

Heb1228

May 13, 2009, 10:29 PM

They'll never beat the design of the flat panel G4 iMacs. Its the coolest computer ever invented.

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_apple_info/_img/imac-02angle.gif

Ttownbeast

May 13, 2009, 10:37 PM

Hell I am low end everything, I drove a 77 Chevy Luv pickup until I blew up the motor in 2006 and I still do most of my carpentry work with hand tools LOL

dsnort

May 13, 2009, 10:43 PM

Actually, I still find ALL PC laptops are ugly and clunky in comparison to Mac laptops. The PC laptops touted as being attractive look fussy or gaudy IMO.

So true. I recently considered a PC running Linux to replace my MacBook. After seeing them side by side at a Best Buy, I found out that the PC's are attractive in a "crack whore wearing a lot of makeup in poor lighting after a case of beer" kind of way.

Finally bought the UMBP. A "Mona Lisa" in a field of garbage.

dsnort

May 13, 2009, 10:50 PM

For the mean time then, I have been trying to get hold of some of those iconic designs. So far I have picked up an indigo imac and a G4 digital audio powermac, am looking to buy a ruby imac, and am waiting for an indigo ibook G3 to arrive in the post.

I have a G3 iBook Clamshell, a Cube, and just gave my G3 iMac Snow to my parents. It's amazing how capable these old Macs are, but eventually, you reach their limit, and need more.

They'll never beat the design of the flat panel G4 iMacs. Its the coolest computer ever invented.

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_apple_info/_img/imac-02angle.gif

My son wants one of these sooooo bad!

chrismacguy

May 17, 2009, 03:18 PM

I only wish Apple had made a 24" iMac G4, they are the coolest computers. ever.

Doctor Doom

May 17, 2009, 04:48 PM

a 24" would've been way too heavy. The 20" had a really heavy base to counter-balance the screen, any bigger and we'd be talking serious ironmongery:eek:

Do love the 20" though.

chrismacguy

May 18, 2009, 12:33 PM

Not saying it was practical...;) just really want one. Of course the ultimate would be a 30" version, but am guessing the base would be the size and weight of the titanic!
a 24" would've been way too heavy. The 20" had a really heavy base to counter-balance the screen, any bigger and we'd be talking serious ironmongery:eek:

Do love the 20" though.

dmmcintyre3

May 18, 2009, 01:09 PM

Now, how do you right-click a screen? :D

Put two fingers on it to right click. Do it all the time on my PB's trackpad.

student_trap

May 19, 2009, 04:52 AM

I have a G3 iBook Clamshell, a Cube, and just gave my G3 iMac Snow to my parents. It's amazing how capable these old Macs are, but eventually, you reach their limit, and need more.

Well I haven't stopped...Here's a run down of my recent old mac purchases:

Indigo imac
Cost: Free
450 mhz
256mb ram
20 gb hard drive
DVD (seems a little dodgy)
OSX Tiger

Ruby imac (screen flickers a bit)
Cost: £5
400 mhz
64 mb ram
10 gb Hard drive
CD ROM
OS9

Ruby imac (perfect!)
Cost: £21
450 mhz
640 mb ram
120 gb Hard drive
CD-RW
OSX Panther

indigo ibook clamshell (mint condition!)
Cost: £67
366 mhz
192 mb ram
10 gb hard drive
CD ROM
Airport Card
OS9

blueberry ibook clamshell (gift for my girlfriend, awaiting delivery)
Cost: £52
300 mhz
192 mb ram
6 gb hard drive
CD ROM
OS9

This stuff is just so addictive!:):):eek:

My son wants one of these sooooo bad!

Would love to get a G4 imac, but they go for quite alot of cash still:rolleyes: