The REAL reason behind iPOD mini delays: FATAL DESIGN FLAW!

[loladze]

The CRUCIAL mistake in iPod mini design already brought trouble to many iPod mini users around the world. At the end you may find some suggestions that can prolong the use of the first generation Minis. Could this be the REAL reason behind unexpected delays and dry spells of iPod minis? You judge yourself...

THE PROBLEM:
After as little as two weeks of use some iPod minis produce HEAVILY distorted sound and extreme sensitivity to touch.

What happened and the reason behind the problem:

My silver iPod mini after two weeks of casual use started to make horrible static noises. Any pressure, as small as thumb pressure anywhere on iPod mini, would throw my mini into acoustic convulsions. Resetting iPod did not help and the problem would happen for any music file format and all volume levels.

Guided by the detailed “iPod mini Autopsy” posted on iPODLounge.com, I carefully disassembled by iPod. Then I started to play the iPOD and disconnected the wheel, then the hard drive, but my iPOD was still playing (out of 25 min flash memory) and still cursing.
Eventually, I narrowed the problem to a small little part that contains the headphone jack and the hold switch.

This small part attaches to the main iPod board ONLY via small INFLEXIBLE black connector. WHAT an OVERSIGHT on Apple Engineers’ part!!!
Any pressure on iPod case, dock connector, or simply plugging in and out headphones, creates TENSION between the small part and the MAIN board.
Since only the black connector is inflexible, it quickly wears out.
What makes matters even worse is that the black connector is attached to the main board via ten very fragile copper pins that stick out of the main board. With regular use, contacts get loose and slightest pressure on IPod creates nasty squeaky static type noises killing all the joy iPod brings.

I have no doubt this problem will surge in time and a fare share of iPod mini users will encounter it. Future iPod minis need to have the part with headphone jack attached to the main board via FLEXIBLE cable. To rely on ten tiny fragile pins is just plain silly. What is puzzling is that in the current design the battery, hard drive, wheal, and screen all use flexible cables. Why, why the engineers chose to use INFLEXIBLE connection for the part with the headphone jack is not clear to me. What is absolutely clear is that with the current design, MINIs will eventually get sick and start to scream with unbelievable distortion.
CONCLUSION:
Apple needs to change iPod mini’s design and attach “the headphone jack part” to the Main Board via FLEXIBLE cable.

My advise to current iPod mini users: minimize the number of times you plug in/out headphones, gently plug in/out dock connector, do not put big pressure on the soft aluminum case.
Yes, this is sadly ironic. The mistake in the design forces users of mini to MINImize using mini.

Can APPLE be pretending about extreme shortages, while hastily fixing the problem? This could be the real reason behind huge delays in iPod mini shipments in Spring 04 and postponing of its sales internationally untill July. If so, I am glad APPLE fixing the problem. Otherwise, because with the current Flaw, many iPod minis will inevitably fail.

Let others know about the problem, may be the awareness of it will help to speed up the birth of new improved mini!

Here are some picks about the mini problem imbedded in a parody love story (do not take the story seriously ;-):
http://www.math.unl.edu/~iloladze/iPod.htm


Irakli Loladze
iloladze@princeton.edu

[Gymnut]

Uhmm I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate dealings with the mini but I thought it was the fact that the supply of hard drives for the mini has been in short supply is the reason for the delays.

[mvc]

Note to self: keep iPod Mini away from Vice-like Handshakes, Jaws of Rabid Dogs, Drooling Sumo Toddlers and Inadvertant Backpocket Wedgies! ;)

[caveman_uk]

AFAIK all ipod headphone jacks are connected this way - not just the mini. In fact most headphone jacks in personal hifi equipment is directly soldered on the PCB.

What puzzles me is why you took an in-warranty ipod apart thus invalidating your warranty. Couldn't you have just taken it back to the store and got another one?

[loladze]

The part with the headphone jack is NOT directly soldered to the main board. It is attached via ten fragile pins.
I wish I was the only one with the problem. There are people in UK stuck with this problem because they cannot exchange it yet in Europe.
Why I invalidated warranty? Blame unsatiable curiosity. :)

[caveman_uk]

There are people in UK stuck with this problem because they cannot exchange it yet in Europe.

That's why it's dodgy buying stuff through grey channels. It's great when it works. You're screwed when it doesn't.

[caveman_uk]

The part with the headphone jack is NOT directly soldered to the main board. It is attached via ten fragile pins.
You are splitting hairs here a little I think. How else are they meant to solder it directly other than through metal pins?

[Doraemon]

Guided by the detailed “iPOD mini Autopsy” posted on iPODLounge.com, I carefully disassembled by iPOD. Then I started to play the iPOD and disconnected the wheel, then the hard drive, but my iPOD was still playing (out of 25 min flash memory) and still cursing.
Eventually, I narrowed the problem to a small little part that contains the headphone jack and the hold switch.

Geez. You have it for two weeks and start disassembling it? Ever thought of sending it back to Apple?

And ever thought of the possibility that you had the bad luck of having a faulty unit?

Sorry, but your non-expert diagnosis doesn't prove anything.

And it certainly is not the reason for the delays (or do you really think Apple would knowingly continue shipping a product with major hardware design flaws in the one country where lost lawsuits hurt most?).

[vollspacken]

well, if iPods suck so bad, why don't you get a Dell DJ or an ugly-@$$ brick sized Creative player instead..?

:eek: ;) :rolleyes: :D

and BTW, if you get yourself a product through grey channels, you're stuck with a lemon if you unfortunatley happen to got one... and if you opened it... sorry, but that's just plain stupid!

vSpacken

[bousozoku]

Uhmm I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate dealings with the mini but I thought it was the fact that the supply of hard drives for the mini has been in short supply is the reason for the delays.

It is. Those same Hitachi Microdrives aren't available in CompactFlash cards for cameras right now. I don't think that Hitachi even realised that the demand could be so great. I wonder how long it wil take to get their factory in Thailand building them.

[Quark]

I understand that 'loladze' is not disrespecting Apple or the iPod mini.

In reading the post, I found the information, well, informative.

I appreciate that such care was taken in examining the iPod mini and reporting what was observed.

I agree that this by no means concludes that it will happen or is happening to all iPod minis, but the potential seems to be there.

This one iPod mini analysis may actually get back to Apple and they may read it and say, "This is not the actual problem, but it has shed some light on another design glitch...".

I don't think it is a good idea for people to just read the Title of the Thread and then make foolish comments.

MacRumors is an incredible site for information and posters shouldn't pounce on others for sharing.

Take care,
Quark :cool:

[rt_brained]

Proving once again that while a prestigious education may indicate that you're smart, it doesn't guarantee that you're bright.

(1)There is absolutely no proof or solid evidence to support the validity of your case and (2) the tone of your rant, replete with overzealous use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points!!!!! severely diminishes your credibility.

Reading your case leads me to believe there is indeed a (sic) FATAL DESIGN FLAW somewhere, however I'm not convinced it's in the iPod.

Had you exhausted all attempts through normal channels to resolve your iPod's problem and gotten nowhere and as a last resort pulled it open to investigate the problem yourself, perhaps you'd find a more sympathetic ear.

[gbojim]

I'm not sure how generic this fatal design flaw is. But I've sat on my mini a few times now, and I'm not exactly gentle when connecting and disconnecting the audio out or data cables. Mine is fine so far.

BTW, as someone previously mentioned, Hitachi acknowledged that shortages in devices using their 4GB drive is due to their inability to meet demand.

[603]

well, if iPods suck so bad, why don't you get a Dell DJ or an ugly-@$$ brick sized Creative player instead..?


hey... the iPods are not without flaws. nobody should have to live with a Dell DJ, but that doesn't mean the iPod is perfect. nothing Apple makes is perfect. it might be better than the alternatives, but it's not beyond reproach. i thought, for example, this thread was going to be about the fact that the dock scrapes the paint off the front of the Mini!

[walkerboh4269]

What puzzles me is why you took an in-warranty ipod apart thus invalidating your warranty. Couldn't you have just taken it back to the store and got another one?

I smell a troll

[superbovine]

rhetoric - The art or study of using a language effectively and persuasively.

you obiviously aren't an engineer.

edit: i have halfway take that back http://www.eeb.princeton.edu/~slevin/formerpostdocs.html

[djkny]

The degree of defensiveness (aka pro-Apple vs. being objective) to which people are willing to exercise just to defend an Apple product proves that Apple is more than just a company....it's a cult. Ever disagreed with anything a Scientologist says? Check their forums. The tones employed are reminiscent of the ones here.

[taeclee99]

My ipod mini developed the same flaw after a month of use. I promptly returned it to the apple store and they gave me another mini. The floor model silver mini also had the same problem. Not good for business imho.

[jxyama]

while the tone of the post may have been a bit abrasive for some (i didn't feel so) and this is probably not the reason for supply shortage, this may be a genuine design problem. i hope this info somehow gets to apple so they can address the issue as they see fit. there's no harm in improving the design for better wear and tear tolerance.

[loladze]

I thank Quark, Jxyama, taeclee99, djkny, and 603 for support and for interpreting my post in the way I intended.
Quark’s statement “I understand that 'loladze' is not disrespecting Apple or the iPod mini” captures well my intentions.
However, I am a bit perplexed that others made assumptions about “grey market” origin of my ipod, my “prestigious” education or my rush to conclusions.
My iPOD mini came from a legitimate US retailer and I have no degrees from any prestigious (Ivy League) school. I made post only after discovering that many other users in US and outside of US had encountered exactly the same problem: heavily distorted sound that renders mini useless. In fact, I am receiving new emails with people stuck with the same problem and seeking advice.
I am not a subscriber to CAPS or exclamation signs, and apologies to those who found them offensive. My intention was to draw an attention to the problem, which can speed up the redesign of mini.


caveman_uk asked “You are splitting hairs here a little I think. How else are they meant to solder it directly other than through metal pins?”
One possible answer is that Apple could have used flexible cable to connect the Main board with the small board that contains headphone jack & hold switch. I think that the problem with the current inflexible connection is that the aluminium case is relatively soft and slightly deforms in regular use. These deformations are enough to make tensions between two parts and get pins (that are very fragile) to become loose.
I wholeheartedly agree with 603’s statement that mini “might be better than the alternatives, but it's not beyond reproach”
Apple designers are known for continuously trying to improve what already seems to be a perfect product. I do sincerely hope that they will do the same to the mini. Updated mini will bring countless joyful hours of music listening to mini users around the world! (can’t resist an exclamation mark here)

Irakli

[Freakk123]

I made post only after discovering that many other users in US and outside of US had encountered exactly the same problem: heavily distorted sound that renders mini useless.
Could you perhaps link to a place that speaks of the many other users, or a link where these other users speak? If so, then you most likely have a legit point. Either that, or their are a bunch of people all plotting to turn people against Apple. Fairly unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. If not, then I find it very hard to believe you.

Also, since these are your first (and only) three posts, I can see why people would think you are trolling. And yes, Apple users tend to be more fanatical than the regular PC user, so, as long as you are being legit and have proof (shouldn't be hard), don't take the questions and attacks personally.

Thanks a lot

[Koodauw]

Proving once again that while a prestigious education may indicate that you're smart, it doesn't guarantee that you're bright.

(1)There is absolutely no proof or solid evidence to support the validity of your case and (2) the tone of your rant, replete with overzealous use of ALL CAPS and exclamation points!!!!! severely diminishes your credibility.

Reading your case leads me to believe there is indeed a (sic) FATAL DESIGN FLAW somewhere, however I'm not convinced it's in the iPod.

Had you exhausted all attempts through normal channels to resolve your iPod's problem and gotten nowhere and as a last resort pulled it open to investigate the problem yourself, perhaps you'd find a more sympathetic ear.

Agreed. Anyone got some of those dancing Bananas that are holding the signs???

My Silver iPod Mini works fine, after a month of use. And its has taken a beating. (sorry iPod Mini, I will try and be more careful.) And if all the iPod are connected in this way...wouldnt all of them have problem??

Still hoping someone posts those Bananas....

[gwuMACaddict]

Still hoping someone posts those Bananas....

http://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/banana.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/banana.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/banana.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/banana.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/00001655.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/00001655.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/00001655.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/00001655.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/banana.gif

[NusuniAdmin]

I assume just buy cheap cd's and a skip proof cd player (like my wonderful small panisonic player that i got for free from panisonic :) ), that way if it breaks u only spent 69 bux vs 200+ bux. I personally dont mind carrying around the cd's, and the cd player fits perfectly in my pocket.

But thats just me. It is definitly uncomportable when my and my gf are sitting really close together and she pushes it into my leg, now that is pain! Im too dumb to remember to take it out hahaha. Its also annoying when it comes to running, pulls the pants right down haha.

But I sure hope apple fixes these problems, and I have jsut notified one of my friends about the warnings with the sound going crazy.

[janey]

um well i'd actually believe everyone saying good things if you, sir, used correct grammar/punctuation (although I should not be talking), capitalization for product names (sorry, its just my pet peeve...I dislike it when people say iPOD or IPOD instead of the correct iPod), et al.
Anyway, taking apart an iPod mini was a somewhat dumb thing to do if it was under warranty. Apple is very good when it comes to fixing their mistakes, and sometimes you just have to sacrifice quality to a degree for beauty and simplicity.
Honestly, I cannot think of another way to solder the headphone part onto the board (my 2nd gen iPod broke that way, but it was because I was awfully rough on that one specific part) and if I were you I would have counted my blessings (I cannot find a single silver iPod mini at an Apple Store in Los Angeles, they're pretty popular) and proceeded to ask Apple for a replacement.

[Les Kern]

.....Could this be the REAL reason behind unexpected delays and dry spells of iPOD minis?

No. The REAL reason is that everybody wants one yesterday. Even Saddam Hussein requested one. So did the Pope. So did Andy Warhol, and he's dead. So did my mom, and daughter, and Alan Colmes (so he can tune out that idiot Hannity), and Donald Trump, and Paris Hilton (she thought it was a video viewer!), and Butros-Butros Gali, and Clay Aiken, and......
Oh, and opening it yourself and voiding the warranty was, well, stupid. Could have had a free one. Sheesh.

[loladze]

Could you perhaps link to a place that speaks of the many other users, or a link where these other users speak? If so, then you most likely have a legit point. Either that, or their are a bunch of people all plotting to turn people against Apple.

http://www.ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27246&highlight=static

http://www.ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25901&highlight=static

[AdamR01]

The degree of defensiveness (aka pro-Apple vs. being objective) to which people are willing to exercise just to defend an Apple product proves that Apple is more than just a company....it's a cult. Ever disagreed with anything a Scientologist says? Check their forums. The tones employed are reminiscent of the ones here.

I concurr.

[Sedulous]

Are all the iPods designed this same way (direct solder)? I have the first generation iPod and have been ruthlessly abusive to it. While it is very scratched, the jack is cracked, and the battery lasts only about 4-5 hrs, the actual performance has never disappointed. In fact, I recently purchased a set of Apple in-earphones... iPod has never sounded better.

[Krizoitz]

The degree of defensiveness (aka pro-Apple vs. being objective) to which people are willing to exercise just to defend an Apple product proves that Apple is more than just a company....it's a cult. Ever disagreed with anything a Scientologist says? Check their forums. The tones employed are reminiscent of the ones here.

I concurr.


What you have to understand is that when dealing with the internet message boards you are also dealing with a skewed group from which to draw conclusions. Alot of the people are on this site specifically because of their strong interest in Apple. To conclude then that the views here are representative of a larger group is faulty data gathering.

If you go to a website dedicated to any product or group, you will find similar and more extreme examples of this type of behavior. When someone comes in and then criticizes that groups choosen interest in such a combative way they are just ASKING for this kind of response.

[173080]

So they're holding off the iPod mini's to fix them?

I placed my order for a Silver iPod mini on March 27th. The estimated ship date is April 26th. Maybe they're fixing all the mini's before they are shipped?

[jxyama]

What you have to understand is that when dealing with the internet message boards you are also dealing with a skewed group from which to draw conclusions. Alot of the people are on this site specifically because of their strong interest in Apple. To conclude then that the views here are representative of a larger group is faulty data gathering.

If you go to a website dedicated to any product or group, you will find similar and more extreme examples of this type of behavior. When someone comes in and then criticizes that groups choosen interest in such a combative way they are just ASKING for this kind of response.

while i agree with your observation, i think there's a limit to "manic" behavior you are describing. while the orig. post was a bit abrasive, perhaps, some replies didn't even give it a chance - they just grabbed at it as nothing but FUD, when in fact, upon careful reading, there were some potentially useful information.

it's one thing to reply "i don't think what you describe is the cause of iPod mini delay, because i don't think you've done enough research to back up your claim." (and some did reply like that) it's quite another to reply "you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about. how dare you even say iPod Mini has a design flaw?" (and there were some did reply like that too) :rolleyes:

i'm sure arn would be utterly dissappointed to find his forum filled with manic members with no open ears to any kind of logic.

[Dont Hurt Me]

The degree of defensiveness (aka pro-Apple vs. being objective) to which people are willing to exercise just to defend an Apple product proves that Apple is more than just a company....it's a cult. Ever disagreed with anything a Scientologist says? Check their forums. The tones employed are reminiscent of the ones here.You pretty much said it, Apple never does wrong or at least they would like you to THINK that. we have allready heard of many with the same problem even on the original pod. so rather then use open minds and evaluate the problem the MacZealots go on the offensive. Perhaps this is why it took Apple a year and a half before admitting ibook had a problem. Another year before cleaning up the iPod battery mess. They live in a constant state of denial as do the wonderful engineers at Apple.

[Giaguara]

Guided by the detailed “iPOD mini Autopsy” posted on iPODLounge.com, I carefully disassembled by iPOD. Then I started to play the iPOD and disconnected the wheel, then the hard drive, but my iPOD was still playing (out of 25 min flash memory) and still cursing.
Eventually, I narrowed the problem to a small little part that contains the headphone jack and the hold switch. [..]

Congratulations on voiding your warranty.

[hob]

You pretty much said it, Apple never does wrong or at least they would like you to THINK that. we have allready heard of many with the same problem even on the original pod. so rather then use open minds and evaluate the problem the MacZealots go on the offensive. Perhaps this is why it took Apple a year and a half before admitting ibook had a problem. Another year before cleaning up the iPod battery mess. They live in a constant state of denial as do the wonderful engineers at Apple.

My mum got in such a state about my iBook she spent an hour and a half on the phone to UK support (going from country to country, started in india -> canada -> ireland and finally.... NORWAY?!) and they eventually replaced it with a PowerBook... that's the kinda genorousity that you rarely hear about from any company - even Apple (Haaaaleeluuuja! (i can't spell, but you get the idea)).

Zealots are bad for everyone, and most people can see through them... Maybe Arn should divide the board - one side for those who are reasonable, the other for zealots...!

I very much doubt this 'design flaw' is the reason of the delay - that it is the hard drives - why on earth would Apple fix a flaw after only 2 months?? :P

[Ajmbc]

Reading the initial post- I felt like someone was yelling in my left ear.
the problem is the use of capital letters.
Don't expect to be able to use this kind of posting method and not get flamed.

That aside, I think that he has a valid point- that there is a fatal design flaw in the iPod- and someone noted that the display model was the same.

I commend you on your bravery to take your iPod apart to discover the problem- because I wouldn't have ;).

-ajmbc

[williamhung]

Yah, I thought the delay was caused by a shortage of microdrives too. I ordered the mini march 15rd or something and was told by a j&r representative that it would be in by march 24th, only to be delayed again until april 15th. I doubt Apple would try to cover up such a serious hardware problem as Mr. Princeton described. I have an audible.com subscription, so I ordered the mini for $149. At least if it breaks down, I won't be too sad.

[janey]

Are all the iPods designed this same way (direct solder)? I have the first generation iPod and have been ruthlessly abusive to it. While it is very scratched, the jack is cracked, and the battery lasts only about 4-5 hrs, the actual performance has never disappointed. In fact, I recently purchased a set of Apple in-earphones... iPod has never sounded better.
well yeah, i would think so. there's really no other way i can think of to connect the jack to the board.
The wear/tear depends on how you treat it. My 2nd gen iPod had a cracked jack and using the remote and non-Apple headphones (like 3 different ones from Sony...), pulling them out sideways by pulling on the cable (read: incorrectly) and taking the iPod apart (http://homepage.mac.com/jane_lee/iview/source/dscn4478.html) incorrectly the first time I did it all contributed to it eventually breaking off.
Hehe, i got the in ear headphones too, they're cool...except its a pain in the neck to listen to other people's iPods because the music is too loud...

[loladze]

Congratulations on voiding your warranty.

Oh, and opening it yourself and voiding the warranty was, well, stupid. Could have had a free one. Sheesh.

Several posts somewhat gloatingly noted how silly I was opening my iPod and presumably invalidating the warranty. I must disappoint those. Did they read Apple Warranty? It does not apply: a) " to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, misapplication; b) to damage caused by service performed by anyone other than Apple c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple."

I opened my iPod, but I did not cause any damage (iPod had been already damaged by its flawed design); I neither misused nor modified iPod. None of the above applies.
Moreover, I sent my reassembled iPod to Apple and also submitted a feedback to Apple engineers describing in detail what I have done and what I think should be done.
I got my new iPod yesterday.

More and more people report the same distorted sound problem on iPodlougne.com and other online forums. Disappointed mini users ask to post pictures of this infamous inflexible connection.
I did not have camera handy to take pictures the first time, but I might be tempted to disassemble my new iPod for pictures. Gloaters, rejoice and hope that I will damage my mini, thus invalidating warranty.

But is it not worth risking one iPod for the hope of saving the future ones?

Irakli Loladze

[Schmittroth]

I have an audible.com subscription, so I ordered the mini for $149. At least if it breaks down, I won't be too sad.

How does Audible get you a discount on the mini? I looked on their site and didn't see anything? Did I miss something. How do you like Audible? I've looked at it but the book prices are pretty high if you buy more than your initial subscription. I'd also like to see a multiple periodical subscription option.

[Sun Baked]

Agreed. Anyone got some of those dancing Bananas that are holding the signs???

Still hoping someone posts those Bananas....Yes, but I've been using the more annoying dancing monkies lately.
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1

Too many people are using the bananas. ;)
Did you want... http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2980&stc=1 or http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3001&stc=1

[loladze]

Here are pictures of mini's guts with a story. Judge yourself whether this is the best possible design of mini:

http://www.math.unl.edu/~iloladze/iPod.htm

[AdamR01]

When someone comes in and then criticizes that groups choosen interest in such a combative way they are just ASKING for this kind of response.

He wasn't criticizing, he found something that seemed important and he wanted to share it.

[bennetsaysargh]

well, i have a 3G 15GB, and everything sounds fine with the ear buds, no static, except when i use the remote which i love. could this be the same problem?

[jxyama]

well, now /. got some coverage on this issue...

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/11/1835219.shtml?tid=137&tid=141&tid=176&tid=188

just be aware, i guess...

[latergator116]

well, now /. got some coverage on this issue...

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/11/1835219.shtml?tid=137&tid=141&tid=176&tid=188

just be aware, i guess...

Looks like apple fired their quality control team. ;)

[Counterfit]

AFAIK all ipod headphone jacks are connected this way - not just the mini. In fact most headphone jacks in personal hifi equipment is directly soldered on the PCB. But the mini is aluminum, (thinner than I thought, but still) and the back of the larger iPod is something stronger than aluminum (I forget what though, steel is it?). Aluminum is not very strong, especially when compared to a similar steel part with the same volume and shape. Its main benefits are very reduced weight and greater heat transferring, which is why it's in the new PowerBooks. I think the best way to solve this problem would be to make the skin of the mini stronger, if only in that one spot.

[flyfish29]

Quark- Best post I have seen written in weeks! Very well put. People do things for different reasons and we are not to judge their reasons, but take what we can from the information they share. Take it or leave it, either way we are a society of sharing/communicating.

I understand that 'loladze' is not disrespecting Apple or the iPod mini.

In reading the post, I found the information, well, informative.

I appreciate that such care was taken in examining the iPod mini and reporting what was observed.

I agree that this by no means concludes that it will happen or is happening to all iPod minis, but the potential seems to be there.

This one iPod mini analysis may actually get back to Apple and they may read it and say, "This is not the actual problem, but it has shed some light on another design glitch...".

I don't think it is a good idea for people to just read the Title of the Thread and then make foolish comments.

MacRumors is an incredible site for information and posters shouldn't pounce on others for sharing.

Take care,
Quark :cool:

[flyfish29]

I smell a troll

check out his link to his little story about the iPod Mini. It in no way says don't buy them. Read the whole story before smelling/judging.

:D

[flyfish29]

What you have to understand is that when dealing with the internet message boards you are also dealing with a skewed group from which to draw conclusions. Alot of the people are on this site specifically because of their strong interest in Apple. To conclude then that the views here are representative of a larger group is faulty data gathering.

If you go to a website dedicated to any product or group, you will find similar and more extreme examples of this type of behavior. When someone comes in and then criticizes that groups choosen interest in such a combative way they are just ASKING for this kind of response.

The following comment is not directed directly at Krizoitz by any means, but at the number of forum members who say he is being flamed fairly or appropriately.

Sheeesz. The guy simply said Apple might have a design flaw. He didn't criticize MacRumors members for anything that I see. It is obviously a problem as the links he posted describe the problem as not just a single incident. Get off his back and stop attacking and being out and out rude to him. Disagree with his message, but don't attack him personally by saying he is stupid, etc.

[PowerMacMan]

It's threads like this that get me so depressed, I should never have looked at this, it's unhealthy. I just ordered a green iPod mini and a silver iPod mini... Can't there be other explanations for this disaster... And where are all the mini's now, surely they should have some out at least, or are they fixing them... I just don't want to spend $550 on iDud minis... :rolleyes:

The green iPod mini I ordered isn't going to ship until "on or before May 17, 2004"... Now that's a long time, and are they working on them or something... OR is this even a issue... I mean NONE have even shipped yet in the Apple Store. Now the grey iPod I ordered is scheduled for "on or before April 30th, 2004" Words of inspiration, and undepressionalism would be nice in the next post :)

[timhood]

Who's to say that Apple didn't consider using a flexible cable connector instead of the current design? Maybe they had issues with keeping the connector securely mounted or maybe they didn't feel the cable would stay reliably connected. Who knows?

I've got a friend with a Sony digital camcorder that had to be repaired because a small cable came loose inside. It's not out of the realm of possibility for a device that gets handled a lot.

I'm not saying the current approach is the best one. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm just saying that because they didn't do it the way you would have done it doesn't mean it's bad or even not as good as your way.

[Paiser]

Hello all!
PC user here. Yes I feel weird.
Any ways. Ipod Mini's are having these frequent problems?
Let say if you this is a problem to me. What should I do? Should I take it a part and do ??? Or just go back to Apple.com and return it for repairs?

After the repairs will the Ipod Mini's will go berserk again?

If do it just plain stupid... Comon ITS AN IPOD Famour from the PC land to the MacWorld! FOr heavens sake seriously its an IPOD the best thing happen to mp3's. If this is a issue then, dissapointment from a HARDCORE PC user.
Not that anyone would care :P

[hob]

After the repairs will the Ipod Mini's will go berserk again?


Yes, it does sound pointless - but apple similarly dithered with iBook logic boards for a long time too.

[Paiser]

so seriously is there a point to get a ipod mini?
I really do like one but every2 weeks so, is there a real point to even get one?

[Counterfit]

so seriously is there a point to get a ipod mini?
I really do like one but every2 weeks so, is there a real point to even get one? I'm not sure what you mean by "every 2 weeks", but if you need the smaller size (small pockets, exercise w/ the armband) or just think it's cute, buy one.

[goodwill]

I think many of us fore-saw this issue from the begining. Too bad this site doesn't pass out gold plated apple icons. Wait...............they probably could, but then they'd ask for them back two weeks later because it was really only metallic paint.

[Counterfit]

I think many of us fore-saw this issue from the begining. Too bad this site doesn't pass out gold plated apple icons. Wait...............they probably could, but then they'd ask for them back two weeks later because it was really only metallic paint. How could anyone not on Apple's design team have foreseen this?

[titaniumducky]

iPod minis DO NOT have serious design flaws. ONLY A TINY PERCENTAGE HAS HAD ANY PROBLEMS!

[Counterfit]

iPod minis DO NOT have serious design flaws. ONLY A TINY PERCENTAGE HAS HAD ANY PROBLEMS! Actually, it's one flaw, and that tiny percentage are the one's where the flaw has created a problem, not where the flaw exists.

[Koodauw]

Agreed. Anyone got some of those dancing Bananas that are holding the signs???

My Silver iPod Mini works fine, after a month of use. And its has taken a beating. (sorry iPod Mini, I will try and be more careful.) And if all the iPod are connected in this way...wouldnt all of them have problem??

Still hoping someone posts those Bananas....

Well Time to eat some crow. My iPod mini just started having the static problems. I know get to send it in and have them look at it. Thing is only two months old. Thats the way it goes I guess. Thank you Apple once again for letting your purchasers to be unpaid beta testers. Ugh. Between that and my recent battery problems and Apple telling me "It's perfectly normal to have your laptop just go to sleep with no warning anywhere below 30% battery life" has me ready to switch back to the PC world.

[Apple //e]

so its mid august 2004 and im thinking of buying a mini. does anyone know if the new ones have had this issue fixed?

also, is the apple warranty international? if i buy a mini in the US, and this issue develops, can i have it fixed by apple mexico? i searched the website but it doesnt say anything

[hob]

so its mid august 2004 and im thinking of buying a mini. does anyone know if the new ones have had this issue fixed?

also, is the apple warranty international? if i buy a mini in the US, and this issue develops, can i have it fixed by apple mexico? i searched the website but it doesnt say anything

All i know is that when i was in the apple store in SoHo, New York 3 weeks ago, i reverently approached the first iPod MINI i'd seen... and it electrocuted me!!

Hob

[disco2354]

As seen on another website:
http://www.dancefrontdoor.co.uk/article2850.html

"Apple have said they will look into reports of sound problems with the new iPod mini digital music player.

This follows reports of some units that have had trouble with the headphone jack, leading to screeching sounds and static.

Apple have said it was aware of "a few isolated reports",

According to comments the problems with the player relate to the 10 connector pins that link the main electronics board in the device to a smaller one that attaches to the headphones socket.

Apple has acknowledged that some people have been having problems with the device, which comes with a standard one year warranty and 90 days of free technical phone support.

"If a customer has any technical issues, they should contact AppleCare," said a company spokesman. "

two points.
1. If it weren't for people like loladze giving up their time to inform, large companies like Apple wouldn't sit up and take notice. Thanx loladze

2.Loladze...you should of sent it back to Apple! :o

[Lacero]

I've had none of the problems with mine a year now. They still work great, still great battery life, I could not be happier with mine.

[bennetsaysargh]

disco2354, are you aware you just brought back a thread hat has been dead for the past 7 months?

[raggedjimmi]

phew! almost had a panic attack then! thought my 2G Mini could have been faulty!

but i did accidently wipe it earlier today :rolleyes: oh dear

[yoda13]

Mine has been fine for almost a year as well, --knocks on wood-- :cool:

[wide]

My mini had the problems after a few months of use. Apple gave me a new one and now I keep wishing that it will get its static back :( scroll wheel is in terrible shape and i still have a few months of applecare

[swisswuff]

I have extensively played with my wife's not 'defunct due to static noise' iPod mini. To me, it appears as if a design problem becomes apparent, not as if the device is "broken".

I have not found any sensitivity of the noise that'd be particularly related to the headphone jack. I mean, mechanically straining the iPod mini which is somewhat flexible - including application of some force onto the headphone connector - will invariably change the static (i.e., make it worse or lessen it if it's there, or cause it to start if it's not there, depending on the moment).

I found that various ways of exposing the metal of the harddisk, and connecting it to various obviously "grounding" looking parts, change the static noise behaviour in somewhat systematical ways, without fundamentally causing them to go away entirely.

At one moment - I had sealed the backside of the drive against the mainboard using isolating tape -, the static noise was completely gone WHILE the iPod was hooked to the power recharger using the Firewire cable. At that same setup, unhooking made it almost unbearable to listen.

Grounding, and what parts to ground, are key in this issue. We now need to know why the static builds up, and what parts to ground. Then we can think about ways to concisely fix it.

Thank you for any concise contribution.

[Koodauw]

I have extensively played with my wife's not 'defunct due to static noise' iPod mini. To me, it appears as if a design problem becomes apparent, not as if the device is "broken".

I have not found any sensitivity of the noise that'd be particularly related to the headphone jack. I mean, mechanically straining the iPod mini which is somewhat flexible - including application of some force onto the headphone connector - will invariably change the static (i.e., make it worse or lessen it if it's there, or cause it to start if it's not there, depending on the moment).

I found that various ways of exposing the metal of the harddisk, and connecting it to various obviously "grounding" looking parts, change the static noise behaviour in somewhat systematical ways, without fundamentally causing them to go away entirely.

At one moment - I had sealed the backside of the drive against the mainboard using isolating tape -, the static noise was completely gone WHILE the iPod was hooked to the power recharger using the Firewire cable. At that same setup, unhooking made it almost unbearable to listen.

Grounding, and what parts to ground, are key in this issue. We now need to know why the static builds up, and what parts to ground. Then we can think about ways to concisely fix it.

Thank you for any concise contribution.

Way to drag up an old thread. Seeing as how the mini is no longer produced, and any Mini's that did have the problem were under warranty, I think this is really a moot point.

[Mord]

damn threadromancers....

[Jovian9]

Hmmm. We had a 1st a 2nd gen iPod Mini and never had any problems. Had them both for a little under a year each before selling them.

[wmmk]

my ipod mini takes 20 minutes to turn on:mad:

[AppleGuy08]

Damn who even cares about this anymore. iPod mini is gone and done with.

[swisswuff]

Damn who even cares about this anymore. iPod mini is gone and done with.

Whatever the monsieur says... I am sure one could pour more money into new electronic toys that also happen to play mp3 files.

Meanwhile, it seems as if I have found an effective fix; the static is *entirely* gone, and the iPod mini has resumed flawless function. What I refuse to see is why I have to pay 200-300 CHF for some little playback device that can be repaired using a saw and some tape. So I can watch some miniature videos, perhaps.

For anyone else who's interested: check this (http://www.swisswuff.ch/pnphoenix721/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=80&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)

[California]

Whatever the monsieur says... I am sure one could pour more money into new electronic toys that also happen to play mp3 files.

Meanwhile, it seems as if I have found an effective fix; the static is *entirely* gone, and the iPod mini has resumed flawless function. What I refuse to see is why I have to pay 200-300 CHF for some little playback device that can be repaired using a saw and some tape. So I can watch some miniature videos, perhaps.

For anyone else who's interested: check this (http://www.swisswuff.ch/pnphoenix721/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=80&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)

What is your beef? This thread is TWO YEARS OLD. Why the heck are you resurrecting it, now? You can't be that newbie. Weird complaint that was fixed years ago... but you are posting now? Weird weird weird....

[swisswuff]

What is your beef? [...] Weird complaint that was fixed years ago... but you are posting now?

This is an iPod mini thread. If you don't have, or relate to, iPod minis and their intrinsic problems, this is the wrong thread for you. We all know they're a couple of years old, these iPod minis. I am sure it doesn't matter whether I first conduct a "Forum search" and then append a post, or whether I open a new thread; mostly, the search/append strategy is the one to use on Forums.

Yesterday, I faced a 4-year old iPod mini with a specific problem and engineered it so it would be fixed. For the previous four years, this one was working perfectly well (not everyone plays soccer with them, so these devices do last), and yesterday, I was given the task of fixing it because of recently occuring crackling noise.

Usage of the term "weird problem": The problem can be precisely described and characterized. Hence, it is not weird. A weird problem is one where you can't put your finger on. The specific problem is a crackling noise, and it was first attributed to headphone jack problems, without that ever being proven as technical reason. I identified a specific problem, not a weird one.

Suggestion that this "was fixed": I seriously doubt that the problem itself ever found a concise fix. The complaint (towards Apple) may have seen customers seeing a replacement device - but not a specific fix being installed into their own device. Now, four years after we bought it, I seriously, seriously doubt that Apple would come up with "a fix". Likewise, people like you are not specifically helpful when fixing this problem.

It thus may be allowed to operate an old(er) device, deal with problems, post about them, and discuss possible solutions to a problem.

What should I say... "sorry that your iPod is newer", maybe? Or, "sorry I didn't break my iPod earlier for your proper perception of a timely calendar - forum post match?" This one now is fixed and may even run for some longer...

[bah-bah'd]

The degree of defensiveness (aka pro-Apple vs. being objective) to which people are willing to exercise just to defend an Apple product proves that Apple is more than just a company....it's a cult. Ever disagreed with anything a Scientologist says? Check their forums. The tones employed are reminiscent of the ones here.


I was just thinking how wierd all the bashers sounded... calling him stupid for opening an iPod... It is like, "OMG you OPENED your mac product? We must kick you to the edge of town and never speak of you again."

[swisswuff]

I was just thinking how wierd all the bashers sounded... calling him stupid for opening an iPod... It is like, "OMG you OPENED your mac product? We must kick you to the edge of town and never speak of you again."

LOL! and actually I see even more OMGs ... the first OMG is "Oh, they treated the iPod like an electronic device - keep it dry, don't let it fall down, put it in a padded bag for transport, etc - , so it lasted much longer than "the average iPod" is expected to "last"" - the second OMG is "oh, he can't just """get""" another iPod, but there's a price tag for both the replacement and repair to be considered?!?", and maybe the third OMG that'd be "oh, we haven't heard about this fix earlier?". Plus, as you say, "opened a Mac product". The last OMG is "oh, the device may be fixed but it doesn't "look" like an "iPod" any more". Too much....

[swisswuff]

Way to drag up an old thread. Seeing as how the mini is no longer produced, and any Mini's that did have the problem were under warranty, I think this is really a moot point.

*I* think it's a free fix to a problem that affects a device class (iPod mini) that still costs around 100-150 us$ a piece on online auctions in this country. Plus, it may be technically interesting to some.

My iPod mini now runs flawlessly as part of my car audio setup. The fixing didn't cost me anything (except some time and sticky tape). You can't economically top that with any newly purchased device.

So, *I* think this is a great point, actually. Not moot at all :-)

[StealthRider]

Oh, puh-leeeeeeeeeze. You could certainly have started a new thread, and linked to this one for those of us that cared enough to read, without leaving us wondering why someone would be newbie-ish enough to reopen a thread that died years ago.

Oh, and double-posting is frowned upon too.:p

[wonga1127]

iPod Mini's IMO were the best, non-just iPod iPods released by Apple. They fit nice in the hand, the Click wheel was in just the right place, the case felt nice and fit in your hand well. They should drop this silly nano business and beef up the mini.

[jessica.]

This is an iPod mini thread. If you don't have, or relate to, iPod minis and their intrinsic problems, this is the wrong thread for you.

Dude shut up. You ask for help and then you treat people like crap? Taking this thread from the dead is one thing, I don't know how "newbie" it is, but I guess the masses think that it is. Treating people like crap and trying to dictate exactly who should post here is just plain dumb.

[MacAficionado]

Edit

[swisswuff]

Dude shut up [...] crap [...] crap [...] dumb.

Interesting.

Normal forums would see threads first searched, then continued, rather than new threads opened up.

If you prefer a new thread, you are free to re-post my previously posted solution (somewhere up there) as a new thread. Thank you very much.

[steve_hill4]

Yesterday, I faced a 4-year old iPod mini with a specific problem and engineered it so it would be fixed. For the previous four years, this one was working perfectly well (not everyone plays soccer with them, so these devices do last), and yesterday, I was given the task of fixing it because of recently occuring crackling noise.
[sniff] I smell BS. The iPod Mini was not produced 4 years ago. In fact four years back they were just about switching to the 2G iPod, never mind the 3G which preceeded the Mini by quite some time.

I agree with others that a new topic could have been started without complaint from others, especially after two years on a board this size. I would also add that as a moderator from other boards, this should never have been on the Mac Computers board. We have an iTunes/iPod board for that. I even feel guilty for keeping this alive.

[swisswuff]

You're right!! I confused "4 years old" and 2004. It can't be 4 years old. It's got "2004" printed on the case. Sorry about that.

[AppleGuy08]

This is an iPod mini thread. If you don't have, or relate to, iPod minis and their intrinsic problems, this is the wrong thread for you. We all know they're a couple of years old, these iPod minis. I am sure it doesn't matter whether I first conduct a "Forum search" and then append a post, or whether I open a new thread; mostly, the search/append strategy is the one to use on Forums.

Yesterday, I faced a 4-year old iPod mini with a specific problem and engineered it so it would be fixed. For the previous four years, this one was working perfectly well (not everyone plays soccer with them, so these devices do last), and yesterday, I was given the task of fixing it because of recently occuring crackling noise.

Usage of the term "weird problem": The problem can be precisely described and characterized. Hence, it is not weird. A weird problem is one where you can't put your finger on. The specific problem is a crackling noise, and it was first attributed to headphone jack problems, without that ever being proven as technical reason. I identified a specific problem, not a weird one.

Suggestion that this "was fixed": I seriously doubt that the problem itself ever found a concise fix. The complaint (towards Apple) may have seen customers seeing a replacement device - but not a specific fix being installed into their own device. Now, four years after we bought it, I seriously, seriously doubt that Apple would come up with "a fix". Likewise, people like you are not specifically helpful when fixing this problem.

It thus may be allowed to operate an old(er) device, deal with problems, post about them, and discuss possible solutions to a problem.

What should I say... "sorry that your iPod is newer", maybe? Or, "sorry I didn't break my iPod earlier for your proper perception of a timely calendar - forum post match?" This one now is fixed and may even run for some longer...


Thats why i got smart unlike some of you all and sold that piece of **** mini to someone who didnt know anything about ipods. Used that money to buy a nano. If the minis have soooo many problems that you all complain about, why not just sell or use the thing as an external HD. Thats what i did with my 3G ipod after the screen went out. Now its a great little HDD for my ibook.

Instead of spending money on replacement parts for the mini, buy a nano, or better yet, a video, or even better, wait for the new iPod.

[California]

This is an iPod mini thread. If you don't have, or relate to, iPod minis and their intrinsic problems, this is the wrong thread for you. We all know they're a couple of years old, these iPod minis. I am sure it doesn't matter whether I first conduct a "Forum search" and then append a post, or whether I open a new thread; mostly, the search/append strategy is the one to use on Forums.

Yesterday, I faced a 4-year old iPod mini with a specific problem and engineered it so it would be fixed. For the previous four years, this one was working perfectly well (not everyone plays soccer with them, so these devices do last), and yesterday, I was given the task of fixing it because of recently occuring crackling noise.

Usage of the term "weird problem": The problem can be precisely described and characterized. Hence, it is not weird. A weird problem is one where you can't put your finger on. The specific problem is a crackling noise, and it was first attributed to headphone jack problems, without that ever being proven as technical reason. I identified a specific problem, not a weird one.

Suggestion that this "was fixed": I seriously doubt that the problem itself ever found a concise fix. The complaint (towards Apple) may have seen customers seeing a replacement device - but not a specific fix being installed into their own device. Now, four years after we bought it, I seriously, seriously doubt that Apple would come up with "a fix". Likewise, people like you are not specifically helpful when fixing this problem.

It thus may be allowed to operate an old(er) device, deal with problems, post about them, and discuss possible solutions to a problem.

What should I say... "sorry that your iPod is newer", maybe? Or, "sorry I didn't break my iPod earlier for your proper perception of a timely calendar - forum post match?" This one now is fixed and may even run for some longer...

Uh, no this isn't a iPod pissing contest. I could care less about what iPod people have -- it is completely annoying for you to jump on a TWO YEAR OLD THREAD and start typing as if to totally ignore the historicity of your problem and your iPod.

Be honest and start a new and interesting thread for anyone out there with a mini still.

It is a time wasting confusion to be reading threads this old as if they were right now, that is my issue with your post.

In the tech world, two years might as well be ten, so you forced this MR member, at least, to read dated and already resolved iPod mini issues -- plus to have this thread's title blaring out at us: The REAL reason behind iPOD mini delays: FATAL DESIGN FLAW! as if Apple has done something cheesy and dastardly in the moment sucks. I clicked on because it sounded like Apple had done something RECENTLY that was poorly designed. Your resurrection of two year old thread with issues that had already proved the title wrong gave a really bad impression of Apple, one that they don't deserve.

That's why it's weird and newbie of you to have resurrected this ancient and archaic thread. Instead of weird, I suppose I meant "troll".

[flyguy451]

Your resurrection of two year old thread with issues that had already proved the title wrong gave a really bad impression of Apple, one that they don't deserve.

That's why it's weird and newbie of you to have resurrected this ancient and arachaic thread. Instead of weird, I suppose I meant "troll".

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. Although the title of the thread does not entirely agree with the subject at hand the body sure does and it seems to be a continuation of the the existing thread topic.

A few other points: Slapping someone with a derogatory "Newbie" tag, or seeing it attached to their handle is disenguious. "Newbie" means new to this forum, it does not mean new to any forum and it certainly doesn't mean new to Macs, computers or normal civil discourse. In fact, even that's not true. "Newbie" really means having a low posting count. I myself have been a longtime member but hardly ever reply to posts.

You may feel that this topic would have been better served with a new thread but other forums that I have been a member of strongly discourage starting new threads when an "on-topic" thread already exists. Top-posting, bottom-posting and quoting "rules" also vary from forum to forum but are merely developed customs. I hope you never travel outside the borders of your country if you react with such vigor to encountering a different custom.

In short - cut the guy some slack. You should face the possibility that you may be wrong.

Lastly, look up the meaning of "troll" because you're way off mark here.

[Abstract]

People who bring up threads this old are like people who drive 55 km/h in a 60 km/h zone. Yes, it's perfectly legal, but I wouldn't want to drive near the vicinity of this person, nor would I think that this guy has any clue as to how things work on the road.

Start a new thread, summarize what problem you had previously in around 1 paragraph, and for a full history (if you really do think it's THAT important), just link to this thread.

[California]

Top-posting, bottom-posting and quoting "rules" also vary from forum to forum but are merely developed customs. I hope you never travel outside the borders of your country if you react with such vigor to encountering a different custom.

Lastly, look up the meaning of "troll" because you're way off mark here.

Well i just got back from abroad and had no problems but enjoyed the differences immensely. No, I really did smell a troll. Why else the two year old post, the whiny overdiscussion of a long resolved issue, and the stoic defense of such? Guy doesn't like mac.

[GimmeSlack12]

Isn't it called an iPod Nano?

FATAL DESIGN FLAW!!! hahah, good title lam-o

[swisswuff]

nor would I think that this guy has any clue as to how things work on the road

Very funny. I just fixed a crackling-noise-iPod mini problem without any additional parts other than isolating tape and cardboard. For regular operating conditions (headphones / speakers on 3.5mm-audio out jack), this fix is permanent. Your mileage may vary.

[rjgonzales]

Isn't it called an iPod Nano?



Sure it is, but two years ago, when this thread was started, it was called the iPod mini.;)