$9.95 for the upgrade then. [Archive]

MySaturdaySelf

Mar 17, 2009, 01:31 PM

"It’s also going to be available for both generations of iPod Touch users as a $9.95 update."
Gizmodo reported.

it's for “In-App purchase to enable more app functionality, peer to peer connectivity, accessory connectivity, Google map controls, push notifications, cut and paste, landscape mode, Messages (MMS) [not for ipod touch i believe], voice memos, new Calendar support, enhancements to the Stock App and search (Spotlight). Plus, Bluetooth, if you’re really looking forward to that one.”

what do you think. worth it? I will get it.

mcavjame

Mar 17, 2009, 01:33 PM

I like it for the copy/paste and landscape for text.

Jack Flash

Mar 17, 2009, 01:36 PM

Just like last time and the January Software update before it I will be calling AppleCare and getting it for free.

In the past the nag screens have refused to let me use my library without buying the update. I call Apple. I buy update. They refund my purchase.

richpjr

Mar 17, 2009, 01:42 PM

I'll pay, but it's really irritating that I have to.

reubs

Mar 17, 2009, 01:49 PM

It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it? I'll look at it more closely and see if it's worth the upgrade for me right now. In the end, though, it's just $10.

ottawaapplefan

Mar 17, 2009, 01:52 PM

What features will the touch get with this 3.0.

scotty96LSC

Mar 17, 2009, 01:55 PM

I'll pay, but it's really irritating that I have to.

Here we go.

Eric S.

Mar 17, 2009, 01:56 PM

$9.95 is worth it to me.

gan6660

Mar 17, 2009, 02:00 PM

Whats this about bluetooth? Is it just for iPhones or the ipod touch to?

goosnarrggh

Mar 17, 2009, 02:09 PM

Whats this about bluetooth? Is it just for iPhones or the ipod touch to?

Seeing as the iPod touch 1st generation definitely does not have a Bluetooth transceiver, it definitely won't get it.

There is a rumour that the chipset used in the iPod touch 2nd generation for connectivity with Nike+ is physically compatible with Bluetooth, but I don't think I've read any confirmation about that.

However, seeing as how App developers will now be able to legally interface with accessories via the Dock Connector, I suppose some single-purpose custom Bluetooth dongles might start popping up.

madmaxmedia

Mar 17, 2009, 02:12 PM

Apple seemed to confirm that Bluetooth would be enabled for 2G touch. Also, devs have been working on enabling Bluetooth for for jailbreak 2G Touch.

madmaxmedia

Mar 17, 2009, 02:14 PM

It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it?

I think your point is valid, but the 2G sort of straddles the line between computers (where you expect to pay for OS upgrades) and portable electronic devices (firmware updates are free.)

I think technically even a regular iPod update is also an operating system update, but I think we all agree that charging for iPod Nano updates would be lame (regardless of whatever is changed/added.)

iSaygoodbye

Mar 17, 2009, 02:16 PM

im just gonna download it for free

gan6660

Mar 17, 2009, 02:49 PM

COnfirmed the ipod touch 2g does have BLUETOOTH!

specialbuddy

Mar 17, 2009, 02:51 PM

I have the 1G Touch and if the 2G Touch has stereo bluetooth support I will probably end up buying one and giving my old one away.

4DThinker

Mar 17, 2009, 02:58 PM

I won't bother for my 1st gen touch. If I had a second gen I'd pay to get the Bluetooth A2DP activated.

kaybeee

Mar 17, 2009, 02:59 PM

im just gonna download it for free

me too

saberahul

Mar 17, 2009, 04:46 PM

TMC2k1

Mar 17, 2009, 05:05 PM

wbeasley

Mar 17, 2009, 05:09 PM

I have a 2G iPod. I'm just very very disappointed to see that I had to pay the $9.95 fee to upgrade to the 2.0 version and now i have to do it again to get the 3.0 version... first time I didn't even think twice but there is a limit to how much you can spend on upgrades.
In the end, i'm sure i'll end up paying it because it's only $10 but even then a one time fee should be more than enough.

If everyone would just get used to the idea... upgrades on the Touch are going to cost money. OK, we all got that?

If you don't want the features, or don't think they are good value, then don't pay for it. Simple. Pretty much like everything else in life.

Yes it would be great if it was free but that's not the case. The feature adds this time do look like they will make a great device even more usable.

Now bring on the king-size Touch tablet... and hurry up. :)

freeme007

Mar 17, 2009, 05:13 PM

OMG! Copy and Paste will cost me $10! WTF! I hope they will not release iPod Touch 3rd Generation next year cause I will go crazy!

richpjr

Mar 17, 2009, 05:38 PM

If everyone would just get used to the idea... upgrades on the Touch are going to cost money. OK, we all got that?

If you don't want the features, or don't think they are good value, then don't pay for it. Simple. Pretty much like everything else in life.

Yes it would be great if it was free but that's not the case. The feature adds this time do look like they will make a great device even more usable.

Now bring on the king-size Touch tablet... and hurry up. :)

Yep we got it. And we don't like it.

bndoarn

Mar 17, 2009, 06:16 PM

dukebound85

Mar 17, 2009, 06:18 PM

i dont see the need to upgrade from 2.0 on my ipod touch. my iphone, its a lot more relevant

michael.lauden

Mar 17, 2009, 06:19 PM

there will be torrents. there will be jailbreaks. there will be ways.

it's not that big of a deal - if you can get a 1000 dollar version of photoshop for free, what torrent site wouldn't host iPod Touch 3.0.ipsw

iParis

Mar 17, 2009, 06:20 PM

Most definitely. It could be worse.

sportfan6197

Mar 17, 2009, 06:25 PM

will iphone users also have to pay 10 bucks or just ipod touch users?

michael.lauden

Mar 17, 2009, 06:26 PM

will iphone users also have to pay 10 bucks or just ipod touch users?

pay attention. only ipod touch. which is why this is in the iPod touch category.

sportfan6197

Mar 17, 2009, 06:28 PM

calm down dude lol

jbernie

Mar 17, 2009, 07:09 PM

For a 1st Gen model it depends on what is left out (blue tooth) and whether or not what is actually in is worth it to you. Some may find it a worthwhile upgrade, others may not see the point.

For 2nd Gen, given all updates will be working then unless you really don't need the updates or just can't stop complaining about paying $10 then upgrading is almost a given.

Nice to see they have finally gotten some of the big complaint issues out of the way, full BT, copy & paste, mms etc. Means the majority of complainers will have to focus on some of the truely minor issues :)

(and yes I think Apple dropped the ball leaving out some of these features for so long when they are available on basic cell phones)

Eric S.

Mar 17, 2009, 07:22 PM

Goona

Mar 17, 2009, 08:07 PM

Seeing as some of us iphone users are paying 100 dollars a month for this phone, 10 dollars for increased functionally is nothing much.

wardev

Mar 17, 2009, 08:18 PM

so... if bluetooth will be activated for the touch, then i could use a headset for VOIP right?

and will voice memos be on the ipod touch too? i hope so:rolleyes:

budkid

Mar 17, 2009, 08:22 PM

$10 is not that much for an OS upgrade...

and most of you complain... I am happy its not $20+!!!

MACoconut

Mar 17, 2009, 08:47 PM

i think you should be able to get 3.0 off jailbreak.

dukebound85

Mar 17, 2009, 08:48 PM

i think you should be able to get 3.0 off jailbreak.

i dont think you understand the difference between jailbreak and the os

NC MacGuy

Mar 17, 2009, 08:58 PM

so... if bluetooth will be activated for the touch, then i could use a headset for VOIP right?

and will voice memos be on the ipod touch too? i hope so:rolleyes:

You can already do both of those using the Apple in-ear headphones w. mic.

wbeasley

Mar 17, 2009, 09:03 PM

$10 is not that much for an OS upgrade...

and most of you complain... I am happy its not $20+!!!

if you don't complain, you're a "fanboy" (according to most of the complainers). :)

geez. you have to pay to upgrade maps in GPS devices and they cost a hell of a lot more than $10. no new functionality. just more accurate streets. do people complain when a new car model is released "i should get a free upgrade"?

at least there's less whining this time around.

NC MacGuy

Mar 17, 2009, 09:21 PM

if you don't complain, you're a "fanboy" (according to most of the complainers). :)

geez. you have to pay to upgrade maps in GPS devices and they cost a hell of a lot more than $10. no new functionality. just more accurate streets. do people complain when a new car model is released "i should get a free upgrade"?

at least there's less whining this time around.

I don't mind actually paying for a substantial upgrade since I do buy apps on occasion. My issue is paying for things like cut and paste which should have absolutely been included and enabling Bluetooth that's already there. Granted they weren't technically on the device when I bought it but it's still a tacky move by Apple. Just like my new shuffle cable that won't charge my last gen. shuffle and external ipod speaker sets that won't charge newest ipods and the 7 video adapters I need to have for different computers and the non-existent firewire in MB's and the list goes on. Face it, Apple is out to make a buck any way they can and this is certainly a way.

I'll pony up the $10 but won't be entirely pleased by Apple generously offering to sell me what the over priced (yes, I could have bought a netbook for the $399 I spent on the touch) Apple toy should have had included from day one.

blackbelt534

Mar 17, 2009, 09:46 PM

Just get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. They charged $10 for 2.0, they are going to charge $10 for 3.0 and they will charge $10 for 4.0 (if it's even called that)

NT1440

Mar 17, 2009, 09:48 PM

Just get used to it guys, it's not gonna change. They charged $10 for 2.0, they are going to charge $10 for 3.0 and they will charge $10 for 4.0 (if it's even called that)

Actually, they charged $20 for 2.0, so yea.......

Cassie

Mar 17, 2009, 09:50 PM

I don't know yet. I really could care less about copy and paste, horizontal keyboard, etc. The ONLY reason I would upgrade is in the hopes it will fix the Wi-Fi problems I've had since upgrading to 2.1. Everything else is just luxury.

kshott

Mar 17, 2009, 09:58 PM

Prolly won't do it. My iPT is a 1st gen, so I don't see the point in paying the full price for it if I can't use all the features.

saberahul

Mar 17, 2009, 10:08 PM

Actually, they charged $20 for 2.0, so yea.......

Did they really? I paid $9.95 for the 2.0 version when it was released.

alexbates

Mar 17, 2009, 10:44 PM

Of course I will pay $10. This upgrade looks amazing!

4DThinker

Mar 17, 2009, 10:50 PM

NC MacGuy

Mar 17, 2009, 10:55 PM

^^^^ with the lackluster computer updates they've had as of late, they've got to nick us for everything they can. Extra earphones, software updates, video adapters, Apple remotes... It is getting a bit out of control.

NT1440

Mar 17, 2009, 10:56 PM

Did they really? I paid $9.95 for the 2.0 version when it was released.

I remember the keynote still, the charge was a mere $19.95.

I remember specifically not paying for it.:p

NT1440

Mar 17, 2009, 10:58 PM

\That $9.95 is more than 129 Million Dollars net for them. There is no way in heII they have invested that much to develop the 3.0 firmware. IGreed, pure and simple.

Not to take away from your lovely post, but how in the HELL could you know that? There have been thousands of man hours, hundreds of coders, testers, engineers etc etc.

Of course they are making a profit but i find it ridiculous you think you know what it costs for something like this.

wbeasley

Mar 17, 2009, 10:59 PM

Apple could just as easy charge $1. It is pure greed on their part to ding Touch owners each time they update the firmware. I'll point out that I've got 18 other players. I've never paid for a firmware update on any of them. The Zunes, Samsung P2, my Cowon S9, iRiver SPINN, all got far more than bug fixes with updates. New apps/games, new functionality, and so on, were all free to anyone who had previously purchased the device. From their presentation it looked like they must have sold 15 million or more iPod Touches. That $9.95 is more than $149 Million Dollars net for them. There is no way in heII they have invested that much to develop the 3.0 firmware. IGreed, pure and simple.

I've got a few other players as well... and I'd prefer Samsung to offer a PAID upgrade if only they would put some effort into upgrading the device. The P2 could be so much better with proper video support and drag-n-drop (on the Mac). They upgrade the Korean software but rarely bother with the other regions. At least Apple are continuing to develop the device rather than suggest you buy another "firmware upgradable" device (which probably won't get that many upgrades...

Sony tend not to upgrade their devices much. I'm waiting to hear what the final verdict on their new 3" touch X-series is... so far the rumours are the screen is great but the video compatibility sucks. It's like they set out to cause themselves problems (PSP had limited screen res for videos until they gave up selling UMD movies).

The new 3.0 features will be welcomed by many existing users. Yes Apple could have charged $1 for them but $10 isn't that bad. Better a profitable Apple than a bankrupt one...

ziggyonice

Mar 17, 2009, 11:01 PM

It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it? I'll look at it more closely and see if it's worth the upgrade for me right now. In the end, though, it's just $10.

That's how I see it. It's only ten bucks, and it's worth it. For non-tech people though, sometimes they won't see the advantage until after a techie explains it to them. Why? Because they don't read "Update Now", they just click "Remind Me Later".

Originally Posted by richpjr
I'll pay, but it's really irritating that I have to.

Here we go.

Couldn’t have said it any better myself! :rolleyes:

Ivan P

Mar 17, 2009, 11:59 PM

I remember the keynote still, the charge was a mere $19.95.

I remember specifically not paying for it.:p

You're thinking of the January Software Upgrade from early 2008, THAT was $19.95 (it was $25 in Australia). 2.0 was $9.95, I had to pay $12.50 for it.

saberahul

Mar 18, 2009, 12:02 AM

You're thinking of the January Software Upgrade from early 2008, THAT was $19.95 (it was $25 in Australia). 2.0 was $9.95, I had to pay $12.50 for it.

Ya, that's it.

sjleworthy

Mar 18, 2009, 03:16 AM

i'd certainly pay it. i couldn't give a flying toss.

jessica.

Mar 18, 2009, 05:34 AM

I remember the keynote still, the charge was a mere $19.95.

I remember specifically not paying for it.:p

So I wonder, as I don't own a Touch, can you go from 1.0 to 3.0 and bypass that $20 fee for 2.0 or is 2.0 now "free"?

If I had a Touch I presume I'd pay for it, but I am the target audience for these things ... pay now, bitch later.

Ace 7

Mar 18, 2009, 09:05 AM

Will the new 3.0 update ship with new iPods? Or will you have to upgrade after you bought it?

sjleworthy

Mar 18, 2009, 10:03 AM

So I wonder, as I don't own a Touch, can you go from 1.0 to 3.0 and bypass that $20 fee for 2.0 or is 2.0 now "free"?

yes. you can upgrade from 1 directly to 3 (when it's live) for a single cost of an upgrade. you can bypass 2 all together.

2 isn't now free as it's still the current version. so you still need to pay from 1 to 2. then you'll need to pay from 2 to 3.

as soon as 3 is live it'll be the most current, so 2 will be removed from the market as a download as it'll be superseded.

as for what fw will be provided with what Touches, well that should be the latest issue fw, also, it depends on how old the stock is they have in stock where you buy it too i suppose. some outlets are still probably selling Touches with fw 1. but, buy officially from apple it will (or should be) the latest fw in operation at that time.

sharp65

Mar 18, 2009, 10:42 AM

who?

Mar 18, 2009, 10:54 AM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/7A238j Safari/525.20)

So far the cut and paste along with spotlight is already making it worth it for me.

Yeah, those are awesome new features, but having the first legit Apple iPod in the world that didn't need a dongle for bluetooth headphones really was the point of no return for me. I just copied seven pictures, pasted them in an email, and sent them to a friend without any hassle whatsoever! I could never go back to a 2.X version after this! There is virtually no lag, and the features are incredible!

Jack Flash

Mar 18, 2009, 11:03 AM

Yeah, those are awesome new features, but having the first legit Apple iPod in the world that didn't need a dongle for bluetooth headphones really was the point of no return for me. I just copied seven pictures, pasted them in an email, and sent them to a friend without any hassle whatsoever! I could never go back to a 2.X version after this! There is virtually no lag, and the features are incredible!

Bluetooth in the touch? OH HO HO! Well that is some good news.

Ivan P

Mar 18, 2009, 10:30 PM

as for what fw will be provided with what Touches, well that should be the latest issue fw, also, it depends on how old the stock is they have in stock where you buy it too i suppose. some outlets are still probably selling Touches with fw 1. but, buy officially from apple it will (or should be) the latest fw in operation at that time.

Not necessarily. Apple never sold brand new 1st gen touch's with 2.0 installed (I emphasise 'brand new' because I believe it was, however, installed on some refurbs), but they did waive the 2.0 purchase/installation fee if you bought said iPod between certain dates. Until the 2nd gen, the 1st gen ones had 1.1.5 installed, which was the last of the 1.1.x releases.

FearNo1

Mar 19, 2009, 09:38 AM

So touch owners have to pay for the FW update while iphone owners get it free??? Thats B$

sjleworthy

Mar 19, 2009, 09:51 AM

dont worry, iphone owners certainly pay for it through their subscriptions. it's only the Touch owners that pay a one off up front payment.

Stratification

Mar 19, 2009, 01:40 PM

I'm willing to pay way more for updates to OS X. So yeah, I'm willing to pony up $10. It's a couple of lunches worth really.

koconborz

Mar 19, 2009, 05:07 PM

9.95$ not a big deal :)

SnowLeopard2008

Mar 20, 2009, 01:55 AM

i'm probably just gonna find a way to get it for free like people did with 2.0. there are only a few things i like in 3.0. push notification, peer to peer (which i don't even think i will be able to use since i have a 1st gen.), landscape, search, and accessories support, everything else i couldn't care less about.

That's stealing.

OMG! Copy and Paste will cost me $10! WTF! I hope they will not release iPod Touch 3rd Generation next year cause I will go crazy!

Technology is updated every year, get used to it.

Does this mean that if your iPod is jailbroken you need to restore to original to go 3.0? None of those features are interesting enough for me to give up my jailbreak.

Also is there an ETA for this update?

Well, duh. This happened when you went from 1.x to 2.x right?

I have a 2G iPod. I'm just very very disappointed to see that I had to pay the $9.95 fee to upgrade to the 2.0 version and now i have to do it again to get the 3.0 version... first time I didn't even think twice but there is a limit to how much you can spend on upgrades.
In the end, i'm sure i'll end up paying it because it's only $10 but even then a one time fee should be more than enough.

Yea, when you buy a computer, you have to pay for your next computer and the one after that. Same story with OS upgrades.

me too

That's stealing too.

im just gonna download it for free

That's stealing also.

So touch owners have to pay for the FW update while iphone owners get it free??? Thats B$

iPhone users pay the monthly bill. iPod touch users don't.

dazed

Mar 21, 2009, 03:19 AM

I have a 1G Touch and its fine for what i use it for. If I was Apple id give the v2 software away for free so more people would have access to the app store.

spork183

Mar 21, 2009, 03:29 AM

hard for me to get to worked up at apple about it. You know what you're getting when you purchase. If you don't want it, don't buy it. As long as they spend money on development, they need a way to recoup it. $10, hmm, can I finance that?

spork183

Mar 21, 2009, 03:31 AM

I have a 1G Touch and its fine for what i use it for. If I was Apple id give the v2 software away for free so more people would have access to the app store.

good point. drive more app store purchases. I wonder how many people have not purchased the v2 software, and if they will now jump straight to v3, or stay at v1. Was cost or functionality the major reason you didn't go v2? or something else?

firewood

Mar 22, 2009, 12:26 AM

So touch owners have to pay for the FW update while iphone owners get it free???

Most iPhone owners are paying $70...

Per month...

Or more.

Of course, only a percentage of the monthly cell phone service bill is going to Apple (indirectly, but to pay off the loan the telco took out on the subsidy), but that's still way more than $9.95 over the course of a full 2 year contract.

2 * 12 * 70 = $1680.00

$1680 > $9.95

Even only 1% of $1680 is still more than $9.95

So There!

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 01:01 AM

It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it?
Because I don't have to pay for it for my iPhone 3G, and because I'm using it for free now (as a registered developer) ... ;)

I don't care the least bit about the reasoning/excuses for why iPod users have to pay when iPhone users don't. As a consumer and an Apple fan, I find it highly annoying. Therefore, I refuse to pay for the upgrade. I was able to upgrade to 1.1.3 (?) for free, I upgraded to 2.0 for free last summer, and I'll steal 3.0 as well. I don't feel the least bit of guilt - not the tiniest little shred - so spare me the lectures. I just wish Apple didn't try to nickel-and-dime as like they do. :mad:

Ivan P

Mar 22, 2009, 01:05 AM

Because I don't have to pay for it for my iPhone 3G, and because I'm using it for free now (as a registered developer) ... ;)

I don't care the least bit about the reasoning/excuses for why iPod users have to pay when iPhone users don't. As a consumer and an Apple fan, I find it highly annoying. Therefore, I refuse to pay for the upgrade. I was able to upgrade to 1.1.3 (?) for free, I upgraded to 2.0 for free last summer, and I'll steal 3.0 as well. I don't feel the least bit of guilt - not the tiniest little shred - so spare me the lectures. I just wish Apple didn't try to nickel-and-dime as like they do. :mad:

1.1.3 was a free update for everyone anyway, you only had to pay to unlock the new features.

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 01:14 AM

1.1.3 was a free update for everyone anyway, you only had to pay to unlock the new features.I didn't. That's the point I was making. ;)

dont worry, iphone owners certainly pay for it through their subscriptions. it's only the Touch owners that pay a one off up front payment.
FUD, :mad:
iPhone users pay the monthly bill. iPod touch users don't.
FUD, :mad:
Of course, only a percentage of the monthly cell phone service bill is going to Apple ...
FUD! :mad:

I don't know why people insist on talking about revenue sharing, when in fact that business model was abandoned almost a year ago, when the iPhone 3G was launched. Here's a nice excerpt from engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/apples-lucrative-iphone-revenue-sharing-goes-away-replaced-wit/):

AT&T has gone on the record saying that it'll take a huge revenue hit -- 10 to 12 cents per share both this year and next before finally planning on profitability in 2010 -- in order to deeply subsidize the phone on its own accord, taking Apple and its precious monthly kickbacks out of the picture.

What's that you say? You don't want to take engadget's word for it? Fine. Straight from AT&T themselves (http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25791):

The new agreement between Apple and AT&T eliminates the revenue-sharing model under which AT&T shared a portion of monthly service revenue with Apple. Under the revised agreement, which is consistent with traditional equipment manufacturer-carrier arrangements, there is no revenue sharing and both iPhone 3G models will be offered at attractive prices to broaden the market potential and accelerate subscriber volumes.

I know it's fun to play the Apple apologist, but please try to get your facts straight when you do. According to AT&T themselves, there is no more revenue sharing with Apple on iPhone subscriptions. So you guys can take that stale, old argument and toss it out the window. ;)

B. Hunter

Mar 22, 2009, 01:23 AM

Damn, I want every Apple software upgrade for free now. Who cares if people work hard to make programs for us to use.
Never ceases to amaze me that people bitch and complain about freebees.
Go buy an iPhone just so you can get 3.0 for free.
Enough of the entitlement mentality already.

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 01:38 AM

Go buy an iPhone just so you can get 3.0 for free.Exactly my point! I find it absolutely ridiculous that I can get 3.0 for free on my iPhone, but not on my 2G iPod touch. WTH?! There's no more revenue sharing, so that's not it - why does my iPhone qualify for free upgrades but my iPod touch doesn't? Lame!! I don't give a rat's *** about Apple's internal accounting; all I care about, as a customer, is why they're nickel-and-diming lowly iPod owners but not iPhone owners. It's asinine, in my opinion. I thought so back when 2.0 was released, and I'm even more annoyed by it this time, now that revenue sharing has been done away with for almost a year. Apple can collect that $10 from all of their loyal sheep, but I will acquire 3.0 for free, just like I did with 2.0 ... It's the principal of the thing.

And with that, I'm off. I've learned through experience that it is impossible to reason with Apple apologists and it simply a waste of energy. If you want to throw your hard earned money away to line Apple's pockets, be my guest. I'd rather not.

Ivan P

Mar 22, 2009, 02:11 AM

Exactly my point! I find it absolutely ridiculous that I can get 3.0 for free on my iPhone, but not on my 2G iPod touch.

Thats the thing though, you aren't getting it for free on your iPhone. A very small part of your monthly bill goes towards the software. Its just that most people dont realise that; it's basically a case of "out of sight, out of mind" - iPhone users think that just because they don't pay via iTunes for software like touch owners that they don't pay for software at all. That's not the case. Because iPod touch owners clearly don't have a monthly bill we have to pay for it in a different way.

Of course, Apple could just **** off the part of the iPhone bill that takes money for software, then we mightn't have to pay at all...but then they'd probably have AT&T bitching at them instead of the users.

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 02:29 AM

Thats the thing though, you aren't getting it for free on your iPhone. A very small part of your monthly bill goes towards the software. Its just that most people dont realise that; it's basically a case of "out of sight, out of mind" - iPhone users think that just because they don't pay via iTunes for software like touch owners that they don't pay for software at all. That's not the case. Because iPod touch owners clearly don't have a monthly bill we have to pay for it in a different way.

Of course, Apple could just **** off the part of the iPhone bill that takes money for software, then we mightn't have to pay at all...but then they'd probably have AT&T bitching at them instead of the users.

I don't know why people insist on talking about revenue sharing, when in fact that business model was abandoned almost a year ago, when the iPhone 3G was launched. Here's a nice excerpt from engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/apples-lucrative-iphone-revenue-sharing-goes-away-replaced-wit/):

AT&T has gone on the record saying that it'll take a huge revenue hit -- 10 to 12 cents per share both this year and next before finally planning on profitability in 2010 -- in order to deeply subsidize the phone on its own accord, taking Apple and its precious monthly kickbacks out of the picture.

What's that you say? You don't want to take engadget's word for it? Fine. Straight from AT&T themselves (http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25791):

The new agreement between Apple and AT&T eliminates the revenue-sharing model under which AT&T shared a portion of monthly service revenue with Apple. Under the revised agreement, which is consistent with traditional equipment manufacturer-carrier arrangements, there is no revenue sharing and both iPhone 3G models will be offered at attractive prices to broaden the market potential and accelerate subscriber volumes.

I know it's fun to play the Apple apologist, but please try to get your facts straight when you do. According to AT&T themselves, there is no more revenue sharing with Apple on iPhone subscriptions. So you guys can take that stale, old argument and toss it out the window. ;)

someone28624

Mar 22, 2009, 07:02 AM

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 07:07 AM

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It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it? I'll look at it more closely and see if it's worth the upgrade for me right now. In the end, though, it's just $10.

Because the iPhone users with their $100/month service plans don't have to. Duh.

What difference does it make how much I pay per month for my iPhone? There's no more revenue sharing. Apple doesn't get a portion of my monthly bill. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Open your eyes and read, mate. I've posted the link - twice now - to that year old news. :rolleyes:

Ivan P

Mar 22, 2009, 07:43 PM

[SIZE=1]What difference does it make how much I pay per month for my iPhone? There's no more revenue sharing. Apple doesn't get a portion of my monthly bill. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Open your eyes and read, mate. I've posted the link - twice now - to that year old news. :rolleyes:

I find it ironic that someone that always insists they're right is one of those that also insists it's called an 'iTouch'. :rolleyes:

Eric S.

Mar 22, 2009, 08:49 PM

It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it? I'll look at it more closely and see if it's worth the upgrade for me right now. In the end, though, it's just $10.

Exactly. $10 is such a small sum that it's not even worth all this discussion. If you want the upgrade get it, if you don't want it don't get it.

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 09:45 PM

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[SIZE=1]What difference does it make how much I pay per month for my iPhone? There's no more revenue sharing. Apple doesn't get a portion of my monthly bill. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Open your eyes and read, mate. I've posted the link - twice now - to that year old news. :rolleyes:

I find it ironic that someone that always insists they're right is one of those that also insists it's called an 'iTouch'. :rolleyes:

I find it highly amusing that you're reduced to personal attacks - over what I choose to call my iPod, no less. Truly pathetic, mate. :rolleyes:

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 09:48 PM

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It's an operating system upgrade. Why would you expect to NOT have to pay for it? I'll look at it more closely and see if it's worth the upgrade for me right now. In the end, though, it's just $10.

Exactly. $10 is such a small sum that it's not even worth all this discussion. If you want the upgrade get it, if you don't want it don't get it.

Well if the problem was actually the amount of money involved, I guess you'd probably have a good point. ;)

Eric S.

Mar 22, 2009, 10:27 PM

Well if the problem was actually the amount of money involved, I guess you'd probably have a good point. ;)

If the amount were zero, would that change your outlook?

macfan881

Mar 22, 2009, 10:38 PM

well I put on the beta today and been playing around with it it will be worth the 10 bucks heck id pay 20 for it my big pluses from this firmware are the following below
Push notifcations this will be awsome with the espn app. and Meebo.
Copy n paste its way better than whats on cydia right now.
landscape mode another huge plus
Search.
plus if i had the second gen the bluetooth is a huge bonus now u could use any blue tooth acssesories headphones speakers etc

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 10:39 PM

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Well if the problem was actually the amount of money involved, I guess you'd probably have a good point. ;)

If the amount were zero, would that change your outlook?

In other words, if iPod owners and iPhone owners were treated equally? Yeah, that would be great. ;)

macfan881

Mar 22, 2009, 10:44 PM

Does this mean that if your iPod is jailbroken you need to restore to original to go 3.0? None of those features are interesting enough for me to give up my jailbreak.

Also is there an ETA for this update?

im guessing WWDC will see the firmware makes sense shows off the other features to the devs so they can use it with programs etc. and the Dev team have confirmed that 3.0 is jailbreakable and will probally realase the update for it within the first week or so 3.0 is officially out.

macfan881

Mar 22, 2009, 10:45 PM

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In other words, if iPod owners and iPhone owners were treated equally? Yeah, that would be great. ;)

than that means you would pay 60 bucks a month to use the ipod touch or what ever it is for a 2 year iphone contract.:D

hugo7

Mar 22, 2009, 10:55 PM

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 11:01 PM

than that means you would pay 60 bucks a month to use the ipod touch or what ever it is for a 2 year iphone contract.:D

Please at least make an effort to keep up. For the umpteenth time, I don't know why people insist on talking about revenue sharing, when in fact that business model was abandoned almost a year ago, when the iPhone 3G was launched. Here's a nice excerpt from engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/apples-lucrative-iphone-revenue-sharing-goes-away-replaced-wit/):

AT&T has gone on the record saying that it'll take a huge revenue hit -- 10 to 12 cents per share both this year and next before finally planning on profitability in 2010 -- in order to deeply subsidize the phone on its own accord, taking Apple and its precious monthly kickbacks out of the picture.

What's that you say? You don't want to take engadget's word for it? Fine. Straight from AT&T themselves (http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25791):

The new agreement between Apple and AT&T eliminates the revenue-sharing model under which AT&T shared a portion of monthly service revenue with Apple. Under the revised agreement, which is consistent with traditional equipment manufacturer-carrier arrangements, there is no revenue sharing and both iPhone 3G models will be offered at attractive prices to broaden the market potential and accelerate subscriber volumes.

I know it's fun to play the Apple apologist, but please try to get your facts straight when you do. According to AT&T themselves, there is no more revenue sharing with Apple on iPhone subscriptions. So you guys can take that stale, old argument and toss it out the window. ;)

Eric S.

Mar 22, 2009, 11:08 PM

In other words, if iPod owners and iPhone owners were treated equally? Yeah, that would be great. ;)

Then it sounds like the amount is the problem. For me $10 is completely insignificant, so I don't have that problem.

macfan881

Mar 22, 2009, 11:15 PM

Yeah, regardless of the Apple accounting excuse, the discrimination against ipod touch users is kinda stinky. Would be better if the upgrade was 10 bucks for everyone or free.

That said, I'm still gonna purchase the upgrade because there are significant enhancements. I'm already more than happy with my touch 2g (especially the Nike+ functionality) so this new upgrade is just icing on the cake.

That said, what's with all this crap big numbers talk like "1000 new API's" or "150 new safari features"? Can someone just cite the key improvements and not play the numbers game.

again if you look at my post i posted my top 5 features that i enjoy

again 3.0 will have
Push notification.
Search
Landscape keyboard for mail SMS and notes
Copy/paste
Bluetooth for ipod touch 2gen.
MMS for 3g iphones
Google Streets are now on google maps.
youtube accounts part of the youtube app
Stock news and quotes like 52 w high and low mkt cap etc in stock app.
Transfer contacts to other users.
parental Restrictions.
Caldav suport
also notice if you have Weather Channel or some weather app it replaces the weather app for you.

and there are other features that havent been showned off yet

mavis

Mar 22, 2009, 11:40 PM

Then it sounds like the amount is the problem. For me $10 is completely insignificant, so I don't have that problem.

What is this, a pissing contest? :rolleyes:

Seriously, I don't know if you're just trying to seem obtuse or if you really are missing the point. Over and over again. It's not about the amount of money. It's about the disparity between iPhone owners and iPod owners. There is no more revenue sharing, so the iPhone's monthly service subscription is 100% irrelevant to this discussion. Apple doesn't receive ANY of that money. And yet, iPhone owners receive free OS upgrades, whereas iPod touch owners do not.

I'm absolutely thrilled that money has no value to you, that must be incredibly liberating. I (like most other people) still have to work for my money, but again, this isn't about the dollar amount! It's the fact that I don't have to pay ANYTHING to upgrade my iPhone. Why the inconsistency? THAT'S what the problem is.

ODEEBEE

Mar 22, 2009, 11:50 PM

I'm a maybe
but
IF enabling bluetooth on my 2G iPod Touch allows me to tether to my mobile phone (on verizon with unlimited 3G internet access for $5 monthly) then I am sold in a minute. All the other features are 'eh'.

Flame deterrents:
verizon > ATT in my area plus I get corporate discount so no iphone for me as long as it's exclusive to ATT.
&
I got the iPod touch for free with reward points so I'm not worried about looking all unhip carrying both and having to explain why I didn't just buy an iPhone.

Davy.Shalom

Mar 22, 2009, 11:51 PM

Nope.

hugo7

Mar 23, 2009, 06:29 AM

again if you look at my post i posted my top 5 features that i enjoy

again 3.0 will have
Push notification.
Search
Landscape keyboard for mail SMS and notes
Copy/paste
Bluetooth for ipod touch 2gen.
[...snip...]
also notice if you have Weather Channel or some weather app it replaces the weather app for you.

and there are other features that havent been showned off yet

Thanks for the info although I already knew about most of those improvements. My rhetorical statement was more a criticism directed at Apple making the upgrade appear more grandiose than it actually is.

I guess we'll have to wait until summer to see the official list of new end-user features (which no doubt will be significantly less than these 1000 API teasers).

goosnarrggh

Mar 23, 2009, 08:37 AM

I find it ironic that someone that always insists they're right is one of those that also insists it's called an 'iTouch'. :rolleyes:

It is possible for somebody to be incorrect about one fact, and yet still be correct about another fact.

In this case, mavis is totally correct that Apple never sees any portion of the monthly service fees for the iPhone 3G - all of that money goes to the carrier. The sources mavis has quoted were widely publicized (and reliably confirmed) at the time the iPhone 3G was released.

mavis

Mar 23, 2009, 06:36 PM

In this case, mavis is totally correct that Apple never sees any portion of the monthly service fees for the iPhone 3G - all of that money goes to the carrier. The sources mavis has quoted were widely publicized (and reliably confirmed) at the time the iPhone 3G was released.

Thank you!

And yet, despite the facts, Apple apologists continue to use that argument as the basis of their unflagging support for Apple's inane upgrade policy. It is truly amazing that Apple's banner cry for so long was "Think Different" and yet their very own sheep seem incapable of doing just that. :rolleyes:

Ivan P

Mar 23, 2009, 07:41 PM

Thank you!

And yet, despite the facts, Apple apologists continue to use that argument as the basis of their unflagging support for Apple's inane upgrade policy. It is truly amazing that Apple's banner cry for so long was "Think Different" and yet their very own sheep seem incapable of doing just that. :rolleyes:

Yes, alright, we get it, you don't have to repeat yourself in every single one of your posts in this thread. Somewhat hypocritical how less than a day ago you were one of the people flaming The Spaz for posting about the same thing multiple times, eh? ;)

:p

txhockey9404

Mar 23, 2009, 08:04 PM

I will definitely be getting it because $10 for 3 iPods is not bad at all. I currently have a 1g and a 2g and will most likely be getting another 2g soon. I think $3.33 is cheap enough for my blood. Besides, bluetooth, copy and paste, in game purchasing, and search are well worth $10. I will most likely be getting a new iPhone around August as well. My Verizon contract is almost up, and I would love to have my iPod replace my expensive, albeit crappy, Samsung phone. (I think I paid $250 for a Samsung Glyde. Looking back, that was an insanely large mistake on my part.)

mavis

Mar 23, 2009, 09:23 PM

Yes, alright, we get it, you don't have to repeat yourself in every single one of your posts in this thread.Obviously you (and many others) don't get it, otherwise you wouldn't keep spreading FUD. Here are some highlights:

dont worry, iphone owners certainly pay for it through their subscriptions. it's only the Touch owners that pay a one off up front payment.

iPhone users pay the monthly bill. iPod touch users don't.

Of course, only a percentage of the monthly cell phone service bill is going to Apple (indirectly, but to pay off the loan the telco took out on the subsidy) ...

Thats the thing though, you aren't getting it for free on your iPhone. A very small part of your monthly bill goes towards the software.Oops, looks like that one was you!

Because the iPhone users with their $100/month service plans don't have to. Duh.

than that means you would pay 60 bucks a month to use the ipod touch or what ever it is for a 2 year iphone contract.:D

So, yeah. I keep repeating myself because SIX times in this thread people like you have had their facts totally wrong and yet insist on arguing the point. I understand that everyone has their own opinions and that these forums are a good place to share them, but when people are basing their opinions on erroneous, outdated information I would think that getting the facts straight would be a good thing. Don't shoot the messenger.

Somewhat hypocritical how less than a day ago you were one of the people flaming The Spaz for posting about the same thing multiple times, eh?Again with the erroneous information. This seems to be a recurring theme for you! While I'm flattered that you feel compelled to keep track of my activity on the boards, I'm afraid you should go back and re-read what I posted about TheSpaz (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7329895&postcount=18) because you're flat-out wrong. Cheers.

Ivan P

Mar 23, 2009, 10:47 PM

Mavis, mavis, mavis...I thought the use of ';)' and ':p' would have made it clear enough that it wasn't serious :p

mavis

Mar 23, 2009, 11:37 PM

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Mavis, mavis, mavis...I thought the use of ';)' and ':p' would have made it clear enough that it wasn't serious :p

No worries. Next time I'm wrong about something, I'll be sure to use smilies too, so I can pass it off as a joke. :p

Ivan P

Mar 24, 2009, 12:28 AM

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No worries. Next time I'm wrong about something, I'll be sure to use smilies too, so I can pass it off as a joke. :p

I wasn't right, I can admit that, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to use "wrong" in the sort of context where you're implying I'm some sort of idiot - I was merely restating a fact that, at the last time I checked, was indeed true. Yes, it may have changed over a year ago, but I have to stress that I don't live in the United States OR own an iPhone; therefore I have next to no reason to know about Apple's contract with AT&T, and anything that I have stated is taken from what other members have written.

So, agree? Or at least agree to disagree? :p

mavis

Mar 24, 2009, 01:07 AM

So, agree? Or at least agree to disagree? :pSounds good to me. :)

DHarrisDBS34

Mar 24, 2009, 07:06 PM

How much does Apple make off of each iPhone sold? AT&T subsidizes the original price does it not? So Apple makes more money on per iPhone than they do iPod Touch even after they don't get any of the revenue from monthly fees. $10 is not too steep a price to pay for the funcionality I will be getting from this update with my 2G Touch.

The landscape keyboards and cut/paste are great, but the bluetooth and new SDK allowing a ton of great new apps is what really drives it home for me. I hope I'll be able to maybe use voip on my Touch with a bluetooth headest. That'd be sick.

goosnarrggh

Mar 24, 2009, 07:42 PM

How much does Apple make off of each iPhone sold? AT&T subsidizes the original price does it not? So Apple makes more money on per iPhone than they do iPod Touch even after they don't get any of the revenue from monthly fees.
You are absolutely correct. You are also making a subtly different argument.

Others have been claiming that Apple was legally obliged to charge for the iPod touch update, and the only reason why they were permitted to give it away for the iPhone 3G was due to the supposed ongoing revenue sharing from iPhone 3G monthly fees.

It may actually be the case that Apple really is legally obliged to charge for the iPod touch update. And in the case of the original iPhone, it may very well have been the revenue sharing agreement that existed with that phone, that accounted for the legal distinction.

But starting with the introduction of the iPhone 3G, which has no such revenue sharing, the legal distinction between the iPod touch and the iPhone 3G must lie elsewhere.

$10 is not too steep a price to pay for the funcionality I will be getting from this update with my 2G Touch.
An appropriate attitude to take. Since we don't live in a world of the hypothetical (Apple should have done this or that...) all that remains is for us, as customers, to evaluate the potential benefits in the upgrade, and decide as individuals whether or not we would get enough value from those new features to justify paying the price that Apple charges for it.

jbernie

Mar 25, 2009, 12:19 PM

Others have been claiming that Apple was legally obliged to charge for the iPod touch update, and the only reason why they were permitted to give it away for the iPhone 3G was due to the supposed ongoing revenue sharing from iPhone 3G monthly fees.

Going back sometime, whenever the first iPod Touch update came out that cost $10, Apple made a statement in regards to how the accounting was done and that (rough wording here) the iPhone was able to get free updates as the revenue was accounted for over the life of the contract but the iPod Touch was a one time transaction and accounted for in the (quarter/year?) it was purchased.

I don't necessarily agree with their position, and would rather pay upfront (even as a seperate cost like AppleCare) for unlimited updates than pay $10 every year (for non major releases). Complaint wise I see where Apple is leaving itself open to criticism:
1) you are not able to do just a general bug fix update instead of taking a major update, you must take a paid update (major releases) to continue receiving minor updates.
2) activation of/firmware updates for existing hardware should not be a paid update (ie Bluetooth) as it would generally be viewed as a driver update as the hardware already exists

Of course, to counter this, a software update like we will see with v3.0 should be a paid update given the OS updates that change how things work and I don't really see v3.0 being any different from a major OSX "named" update (like snow leopard).

Personally I think Apple could get a better reputation from not overdoing the charges on the in between updates and focusing more on the major updates so the consumer can see value. $10 for going v1 to v2 and v2 to v3 seems resaonable, maybe $5 for anything in the middle.