Why would Site allow people to ask for help defeating passcodes

[Turmoil]

I just have to ask.

There is a thread "Artist locked out of her iPhone and needs her photos b4 resetting it. PLEASE help!". Where a user is asking for help defeating someones I-Phone passcode.

A quick reading of the rules, seem to indicate this type of thread is not allowed and in my opinion it should not be.

I lock up my phone because there is precious and private information on it. I would strongly object to this site becoming a conduit for helping people break security.

Of course no-one knows whether the OP's story is correct or not, we only have one piece of evidence, someone locked the data on the phone, the poster doesn't have that passcode that was used to lock the. That's enough evidence for me.

I'd like to urge the admins to carefully consider whether such posts should be allowed.

Thank you.

Tim Crowley

[xUKHCx]

You already received a direct answer to this question.

[Turmoil]

You already received a direct answer to this question.

No, actually I have not.

If I had, I would not have posted this.

[xUKHCx]

No, actually I have not.

If I had, I would not have posted this.

You were sent a message explaining this case, to which you replied.

[Turmoil]

You were sent a message explaining this case, to which you replied.

If you don't want to talk about this issue just say so.

I was sent a message, It did not answer the question I mention in this thread.

I can understand your sensitivity.

Maybe someone else wants to address it.

I hope ya have a nice day.

[jonbravo77]

First off, Arguing with a mod may not be the wisest thing to do. There is defiantly the Private Message feature that you can use to have a conversation that will not be broadcast to the entire forum.

Secondly, why are you assuming that the iPhone in the thread you mentioned was someone else's and not the OP's? That is a rhetorical question not to be answered...

And thirdly, if you thought there was an issue, did you report the thread? again, rhetorical question. If you don't report an issue the mods may never see it.

Just some food for thought...

[Turmoil]

First off, Arguing with a mod may not be the wisest thing to do. There is defiantly the Private Message feature that you can use to have a conversation that will not be broadcast to the entire forum.

Since I think it's of interest to the entire forum, I chose to post it here.
You may fear the "mods", if you wish. I choose not to.


Secondly, why are you assuming that the iPhone in the thread you mentioned was someone else's and not the OP's?


I'm not sure how you read that from my post. It doesn't matter if the OP owns the phone or not. Helping someone defeat security is wrong.


That is a rhetorical question not to be answered...

whatever.


Just some food for thought...

Thought? You didn't even address the point. Maybe if you gave it some thought you could add something useful?

Again, when I read the RULES of the forum, they seem to indicate this kind of thing is not allowed. From a sensible, moral and ethical standpoint these things should not be allowed. If you don't want to talk about that, fine.

[bradenwh]

So people who are genuinely locked out of their phones should not be able to come here to ask for help? That's kind of what a forum is for.

If you don't like it, then don't read them. No one is asking you to stare at these threads. Move on, and get a hobby if this is the only good thing you have to do.

[Turmoil]

So people who are genuinely locked out of their phones should not be able to come here to ask for help? That's kind of what a forum is for.

If you don't like it, then don't read them. No one is asking you to stare at these threads. Move on, and get a hobby if this is the only good thing you have to do.

Well, thank you for the thoughtful post. I appreciate your opinion.

If you don't mind I'll reply to your comments from last to first

"Move on?" Isn't this a discussion forum? I really don't understand this attitude and it seems to be quite prevalent. Discussion of these things is important. It doesn't seem like a good idea to tell people to move on for discussing something, or for bring up a view point you don't like. I don't see how that comment enhances community. Who knows, if we discuss it, maybe I will see your point of view, maybe you will learn something or look at an issue in a different way. Maybe someone else will reply and we will both learn something.

As far as what I have time for. I think that's kinda the point. I have lot's of thing to do. A job, a small business, a computer and a gadget hobby.

I take the time out of my busy schedule to come hang out in computer forums. I learn and try to share better ways to get the most out of my computers and other devices. There are web sites that help people defeat security. I wasn't aware this was one of "those" websites. I don't really want to be part of an online community that helps people break into my devices. It doesn't really fit well with my schedule.


To address your first paragraph. How would you possibly know if someone is genuinely locked out of their phone? By that reasoning, someone could claim "OMG I lost my bank PIN code, I really need your help, how can I break in". Ok, there is some hyperbole there and obviously this site would remove that post.

However, the way things appear to be now, despite the rules that seem to not allow it, someone would be permitted to sign up for an account, anonymous receive help defeating a pass-code, "borrow" your phone and access your private information. For some reason, there also seems to be an objection to discussing it. Do you understand why that would be?

I don't know, maybe it's just an iphone thing and most people don't keep business and other private info on their phones. For me, the data on my phone is personal and very important. I know the pass code only offers limited protection and I take other measures to try to protect my data. I would however like to keep in place the protections that I do have.

Then again, maybe I am missing something else. The rules say

"Warez/Serials/Keys. Do not post software serial numbers or keys or refer people to specific websites, software, or techniques whose purpose is to break or bypass software licensing methods, distribute cracks, or obtain or use commercial software or media in violation of its license and/or for copyright violation. Do not ask for or give such help."

How can that NOT apply to the protection you have on your phone? What am I missing?

Thanks again for your response. I hope you better understand my point of view.

All the best

Tim Crowley

[jonbravo77]

Ok, Did you report the post since you believe it violates forum rules?

[Turmoil]

Ok, Did you report the post since you believe it violates forum rules?

No. I did not. Do you think that it's not known?

Right now, I'm trying to discuss it.

Take care.

[mgguy]

Turmoil raises some good points. I know that forum members have come down pretty hard when posters have asked how to use Limewire and other like software to download music and video. They seem to not much care that this type of software can be used to capture not only illegal stuff but also material that is not copyrighted. I really don't see why there is such tightness when it comes to discussing these things, but the forum rules are the rules and should be followed. I tend to agree with Turmoil that telling someone how to breach iPod security seems to run counter to the rules. But the moderators know the rules better than anyone, and if they don't see it as a problem then I guess the rules allow it. But I don't see the harm in having a discussion about it like we are in this thread.

[jonbravo77]

No. I did not. Do you think that it's not known?

Right now, I'm trying to discuss it.

Take care.

Since you did not report the thread I would consider this discussion closed IMO. You did not follow the forum rules yourself in that you did not take the necessary steps to make it known that you believed a post was in violation of forum rules. Since you are making such a huge deal of following forum rules. You make it feel like you are just trolling to get a rise out of someone about this subject.

You were told by a Moderator that you received a Private Message about this subject and in fact responded to that private message, but that's not good enough. You want to make sure everyone knows how you feel about this subject and how you think it broke the rules. Well now everyone will know that you did not do anything that is outlined in those rules you believe were broken. I will politely ask that you please stop before this goes any further...

If you believed that the Forum Rules were in fact broken by the OP of that thread you should have reported it. Bringing it up for debate or whatever else you want to do does not make sense...

[Turmoil]

Since you did not report the thread I would consider this discussion closed IMO.


Thanks for sharing. I respectfully disagree.

[janitorC7]

Thanks for sharing. I respectfully disagree.

I hate to bring this up again, but why not use the report button?

[Turmoil]

I hate to bring this up again, but why not use the report button?

It's already been reported.

[allmIne]

:rolleyes: People are coming down way too hard on the OP.

[Cromulent]

Helping someone defeat security is wrong.

No it isn't. At least not in the generic sense you use that sentence.

[Consultant]

Anyone locked out of iPhone or iPod can reset it using iTunes on their original computer they synced with.

Any other attempts or excuses of losing BOTH the password and the iTunes account are just trying to bypass security on stolen goods.

Not sure why that's very difficult to understand?

Typically posters of questions
- no posting history, no future postings
- did not search
- provide BS, suspicious excuses
- do not read forum rules (did not search, etc)

[Turmoil]

No it isn't. At least not in the generic sense you use that sentence.


At least taken out of the context that the statement was in :-)

[AmbitiousLemon]

I accidentally locked my keys in my car once (on date at the time too!). I called up AAA and they came by and used a slimjim to open the car for me Not a fun night, but I am glad someone helped me open the door.

Am I to believe that had this happened to you, you would have just abandoned the car and bought a new one because the security of the door lock is somehow sacred? I hope you don't lose your car keys ever (or your home keys, or your chastity belt key).

The thing is accidents happen. While we do have rules here that prohibit discussion of the specifics of how to break the law, we do allow discussion of topics that have both legitimate and illegitimate uses, as long as specifics of the illegitimate uses are not discussed. It is a difficult judgement call at times, so we often discuss these matters at great length before making a decision. We also often take actions and gather information that is not shared with the community.

In my opinion, your holier-than-thou attitude and resultant personal attacks on the person in question are a much more clear-cut violation of our rules. We have discussed these matters with you privately, I suggest you spend some time reflecting on your own behavior in this matter.

[rhett7660]

I accidentally locked my keys in my car once (on date at the time too!). I called up AAA and they came by and used a slimjim to open the car for me Not a fun night, but I am glad someone helped me open the door.

Am I to believe that had this happened to you, you would have just abandoned the car and bought a new one because the security of the door lock is somehow sacred? I hope you don't lose your car keys ever (or your home keys, or your chastity belt key).

The thing is accidents happen. While we do have rules here that prohibit discussion of the specifics of how to break the law, we do allow discussion of topics that have both legitimate and illegitimate uses, as long as specifics of the illegitimate uses are not discussed. It is a difficult judgement call at times, so we often discuss these matters at great length before making a decision. We also often take actions and gather information that is not shared with the community.

In my opinion, your holier-than-thou attitude and resultant personal attacks on the person in question are a much more clear-cut violation of our rules. We have discussed these matters with you privately, I suggest you spend some time reflecting on your own behavior in this matter.

In this instance when you called AAA did they have you verify anything or did they just send someone out with a slim jim?

[AmbitiousLemon]

In this instance when you called AAA did they have you verify anything or did they just send someone out with a slim jim?

They just have you sign something as I recall. Its not really relevant, whether they checked my driver's license or AAA card or whatever there is no way of knowing for sure it is my car. You get a little info and make a judgement call.

[jessica.]

They just have you sign something as I recall. Its not really relevant, whether they checked my driver's license or AAA card or whatever there is no way of knowing for sure it is my car. You get a little info and make a judgement call.

Good analogy actually. My neighbors were gone once and their car alarm was going off for approximately 6 hours. The area had a huge noise ordinance so I called the local police station to report that the alarm was going off from about 5 am to the time I called. Two hours later the police arrived with a tow truck, asked me who I was ... took down no information, broke into the van and turned the alarm off. The van was still locked but the alarm was clearly disconnected. A note was left in the mailbox for the owner and I was left with my own devices ... steal the van now that AAA took care of the alarm or go back inside and finish my beer?

Point being is sometimes people just need help having the door opened for them and they mean no malicious intent.

[rhett7660]

They just have you sign something as I recall. Its not really relevant, whether they checked my driver's license or AAA card or whatever there is no way of knowing for sure it is my car. You get a little info and make a judgement call.

Actually everytime I have used them they make me verify my vehicle information that I have provided prior. Interesting.

[mgguy]

Actually everytime I have used them they make me verify my vehicle information that I have provided prior. Interesting.

The same with me. I lost the key to my Acura, and they made me tell them when and where I bought the car, checked their purchase records, and made me show them my driver license before they would take my order to have a new electronic key made. It bugged me at first but then I realized they were doing it to protect Acura owners and I calmed down. They start with the assumption that people may not be who they say they are and check ID.

[jonbravo77]

The same with me. I lost the key to my Acura, and they made me tell them when and where I bought the car, checked their purchase records, and made me show them my driver license before they would take my order to have a new electronic key made. It bugged me at first but then I realized they were doing it to protect Acura owners and I calmed down. They start with the assumption that people may not be who they say they are and check ID.

I think that's a difference between AAA that the other posts were talking about and car dealerships.

I am going to be the resident jerk here and ask for this thread to be closed. It is going off topic in which there wasn't a real topic to begin with. It seems to me that the OP was just looking to make public his interpretation of the forum rules in which was already discussed with him in a PM by a moderator.

I think a discussion would be warranted if the OP had originally phrased his post my saying "this thread I have referenced seems to break forum rules, is it right for it to be allowed" instead just decided to make public his dislikes when he didn't receive the answer he wanted in the PM. I'm not trying to flame or anything like that, I just think this thread is not needed due to the fact that A) the OP's concerns were already addressed in a PM from a Mod, and B) did not follow the rules himself in reporting the thread he questioned originally... He reported it after he made this topic and only after being told that he should have reported it if he thought there was a rule violation.

I would have been more than happy to discuss this but in his original post it did not seem he wanted to discuss anything, and in-fact he just wanted to make his displeasure of forum policy known.

Sorry for the rant. But I made my mistakes about forum policy and learned my lessons. well, maybe not completely.... I'm stubborn :(

[McGiord]

OP: by assuming that the "artist" was not the legal owner of the iPhone you are assuming the person is trying to do something illegal without even knowing the facts.

Is this covered by any of the forum rules? Something like respect the other macrumors members?

Once I first read this thread the first thing that came to my mind was the "locked keys in the car" situation as mentioned by other persons.

Also I participated in the discussion of the artist locked iPhone, and one good point to add is that many forum members are focused on attacking instead of helping or adding something positive to the discussion.

in my case I found very interesting that you can get your iPhone's photos out of your pasword locked iPhone in Windows XP without even unlocking the phone?
This is very interesting to discuss, as it is to understand what are the boundaries of the iPhone security, and how safe your data/photos really are.

As you mention we always learn from the discussion.

[Turmoil]

Actually everytime I have used them they make me verify my vehicle information that I have provided prior. Interesting.

If they did not, and they helped you steal someones car, THEY would be liable.

You have to be a AAA member to use AAA, they KNOW who you are. You are not an anonymous poster, saying "please help me, you big smart hackers, I'm all locked out, kissey kissey".

So yeah, I see the relevance, but it's really not the same thing.

At the end of the day, it's clear that Arn doesn't care.

My choice is to seek better waters.

I hope you have fun. To me, ethics count.

This place just seems all about cliques and control.

I'm a grown man, I don't play this crap.

Dear "mods". Please delete my account.

Thanks

[jonbravo77]

If they did not, and they helped you steal someones car, THEY would be liable.

You have to be a AAA member to use AAA, they KNOW who you are. You are not an anonymous poster, saying "please help me, you big smart hackers, I'm all locked out, kissey kissey".

So yeah, I see the relevance, but it's really not the same thing.

At the end of the day, it's clear that Arn doesn't care.

My choice is to seek better waters.

I hope you have fun. To me, ethics count.

This place just seems all about cliques and control.

I'm a grown man, I don't play this crap.

Dear "mods". Please delete my account.

Thanks

Take care and thanks for being a martyr..

[McGiord]

Asks for discussions...everything that is different from my opinion is worthless.
Base arguments on forum rules...brakes forum rules.

It's very ethical to post saying that someone is doing something illegal without any hard fact.

Please join a forum where you can post only after 3 independet accredited parties certifiy that you are saying the truth.

[rhett7660]

If they did not, and they helped you steal someones car, THEY would be liable.

You have to be a AAA member to use AAA, they KNOW who you are. You are not an anonymous poster, saying "please help me, you big smart hackers, I'm all locked out, kissey kissey".

So yeah, I see the relevance, but it's really not the same thing.

At the end of the day, it's clear that Arn doesn't care.

My choice is to seek better waters.

I hope you have fun. To me, ethics count.

This place just seems all about cliques and control.

I'm a grown man, I don't play this crap.

Dear "mods". Please delete my account.

Thanks

I agree with you, I was merely pointing it in reference to the AAA example.