AT&T To Offer No-Contract iPhones to Existing Customers Starting March 26th?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/18/atandt-to-offer-no-contract-iphones-to-existing-customers-starting-march-26th/)

Boy Genius Report claims (http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/03/18/att-bringin-sexy-back-offering-iphone-3g-at-no-commitment-price-no-activation/) to have received slides from an internal AT&T training presentation revealing that AT&T will be offering contract-free iPhone 3Gs to existing customers beginning on March 26th. iPhone 3Gs will be priced at $599 for the 8 GB model and $699 for the 16 GB model, and no service agreement or device activation is required.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/03/18/141207-iphonecontract2.jpg.jpeg

By limiting the "No-Commit" pricing option to existing customers and one per active mobile number, AT&T is apparently aiming to limit the number of phones being purchased for unlocking and use on other networks.AT&T is restricting the No-Commit price to existing customers who wish to add a line, purchase as a gift, or perform and [sic] upgrade and are not eligible for the Qualified or Early upgrade price.While AT&T is planning to limit sales to one per active mobile number, the training materials apparently reveal that AT&T has only limited means of enforcing this restriction. Only sales made at company-owned retail (COR) stores will show up in OPUS, AT&T's point-of-sale system. Otherwise, there is no indicator in the billing system denoting such sales.

Article Link: AT&T To Offer No-Contract iPhones to Existing Customers Starting March 26th? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/18/atandt-to-offer-no-contract-iphones-to-existing-customers-starting-march-26th/)

[Kilamite]

Why not just Pay As You Go?

This sounds like Pay As You Go with some fancy wording right..?

[tiguk]

Clear that stock!

[Marx55]

Fully unlocked to be used with any provider?

[audioteknika]

$600 for 8GB ? Hehe.. funny guys..

[Solemony]

Ohhh...Nice :)!!!

[roger6106]

Fully unlocked to be used with any provider?

That's what I want to know.

[tbobmccoy]

$600 for 8GB ? Hehe.. funny guys..

On launch day, I went to an AT&T store to buy an iPhone and ended up with an 8gb one. I returned it the next day after the Apple store had a few 16gb ones, and in between me returning the iphone and purchasing the new one, AT&T didn't reset my account to show that I was eligible for an upgrade still. It showed the price of $699 upon my attempt to purchase it. This has been structured for a while, it's just now AT&T is advertising it.

[jciapara]

Not fully unlocked!, Just you can use it with AT&T the way you want, Pay as you Go or any other plan, not the just the iPhone plan!

[Xavier]

Seems reasonable to some. Too expensive for me.

I'll keep holding out for the iPhone on verizon even though its not coming..

[Small White Car]

Fully unlocked to be used with any provider?

I give that a 1% chance.

[Anaemik]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

[nick9191]

Jesus, same price as a Mac Mini.

[amac4me]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.

[polaris20]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.

[emotion]

...and all those who argued that the iphones weren't subsidized. haha.

[maestro55]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.

I certainly agree with you on this. Though I figure there will be a lot of people who may pay the higher prices just to not be in a contract with anyone. I wouldn't pay that much for a phone but I am sure there are people who would (maybe not many that would admit to it).

[citi]

I give that a 1% chance.

No commit just means that you don't renew your contract. You are still in the original contract. When that contract expires, you can, if you choose to, upgrade to another phone with all discounts included.

[pdpardue]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.

not everyone can get a contract, such as myself. I've had the same phone service for over two years but without a contract (month to month type of thing) but because of credit I can't get a phone without some insane deposit. Before cingular became att I'd looked into their service and they wanted 800 dollars plus the cost of the phone plus the monthly service. If I had the option of a non-contract service plan I'd jump on it

[Ol3s]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

well clearly youve never been to europe, and if u have or are european then wtf. France 700 euros (i think) and Switzerlan 1200 CHF (in dollars its just a bit less)

[cazlar]

I'm all for PAYG/no-contracts, but without it being unlocked, there isn't much point at that price. $399 maybe. I paid that for my 1st gen iPhone which I use with t-mobile PAYG.

I guess it at least provides an option for someone to buy a gift (an expensive gift mind you!) without locking the recipient into an expensive contract that they may not like. Assuming AT&T PAYG SIMs work with it that is... If you have to get an AT&T contract to use it (without unlocking it I mean), then again it doesn't make too much sense.

[pbeyersdorf]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.
I see a point: Spend $400 more upfront to avoid having to pay $30/month x 24 months=$720 for a data plan that I can live without.

[QCassidy352]

thanks but no thanks. I'll be holding out for the next version, which I'll get with upgrade pricing.

[ravenvii]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.

Me neither, I don't see the point. If you only plan to stick with the iPhone for less than a year or two, then why bother paying $600+ for it?

[srl7741]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.

I would have to agree. Which IF true is nice and can't wait to see the new device.

[citi]

I see a point: Spend $400 more upfront to avoid having to pay $30/month x 24 months=$720 for a data plan that I can live without.

you still have to pay for the data plan

[JPark]

The "Early Upgrade" rate is what has me worried. I have a 3G and have been wondering if I'll be upgrade eligible when the new iPhone comes out. It looks like the answer is "Yes, for $200 more."

[gkarris]

I don't get it. The text says no activation but the ad says "activation". I thought AT&T and Apple had a rule that these phones had to leave the store activated on an AT&T account...

In the case of non-subsidized, you have to put it on at least a Pay As You Go card...

[TwinCities Dan]

...and all those who argued that the iphones weren't subsidized. haha.

Who said that? It has always been known that the iPhone was subsidized.

[JPark]

you still have to pay for the data plan

If the phone comes contract-free, then presumably you could use it on just a voice plan.

[jpk32092]

Isn't it cheaper just to pay the early termination fee?

[citi]

If the phone comes contract-free, then presumably you could use it on just a voice plan.

I doubt it. It says existing customers only, which means you probably already have a data plan. You would just be switching to a new phone. If didn't have a data plan, they would add one. Adding on a "service" does not effect your contract.

[MasterNile]

When they say existing customers do they mean existing iPhone customers or just existing AT&T customers?

[citi]

Isn't it cheaper just to pay the early termination fee?

that only works if you are leaving AT&T.

[Kar98]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.


Thank you, Captain Obvious! We're saved!

[MasterNile]

that only works if you are leaving AT&T.

That works for me, except that I think these phones will be on the newest baseband which is currently not able to be unlocked.

[georgetang]

Hahaha...

I'm sure AT&T got words from Apple

Apple would release a killer new gen iphone. With more processor power, better battery life (improvement learned from 17 MBP), probably include video recording, more capacity, iChat AV Mobile (front video camera).

That's why AT&T must start cleaning inventories, and why not make extra $$$ while doing so.

[ddTaylor]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

Considering what it costs Apple to produce the phone! Aside from the R&D that went into the iPhone 3G (which has been recouped some time back - especially with the initial development of the original iPhone).

It think this price is a slap if the face.

D

[Angelchild]

Hey folks, I'm from Italy.

Here we have iPhone 8gb at 499 EUROS (that at today's change are 673$) and 16GB at 569 EUROS (767$).

So here:
8GB = 673$ with VAT
16GB = 767$ with VAT

And you know what? I think that here in Italy 80% of costumers has iPhone with no contract. Here contracts are made by a very tiny percentage of the population.
So it's interesting to see how shocked are you from that price that in my thoughs are not so elevated for a total free iPhone (but you are more likely with contracts, I understand).

And here's the deal.

In Italy (and in other few countries) iPhone is completly free. And for "completly" I mean: no sim-lock and no operator-lock too.

So I hope that At&t do the same for all of you.

It's little pricy but then you have an iPhone that is totally yours.

BUT. Of course.

A flat is necessary and so you have to see not only if At&t will get iPhone (really) totally free but also WHAT TYPE OF FLAT at&t will offers for no contract costumers.

Anyway can't wait for 3.0, iPhone is fantastic. A geeky bye from Italy, Angelchild.


EDIT. IMPORTANT: I haven't considered VAT that in Italy is IN the price (20%).
In US there is no VAT in official price. So the question it's a bit difference.
I edited adding "with VAT". To calculate price with or without in us or in Italy now is no possible...here are 1.59 AM and I'm so tired :)

[DS Flyer]

well clearly youve never been to europe, and if u have or are european then wtf. France 700 euros (i think) and Switzerlan 1200 CHF (in dollars its just a bit less)

Well we're not in Europe. That's just crazy, but it's just my opinion.

[Digital Skunk]

Why not just Pay As You Go?

This sounds like Pay As You Go with some fancy wording right..?

This would be a better option in my opinion.

I would even pick up an iPhone as a "pay as you go" option until my contract with Sprint runs out, then choose if I want to make the two year commitment or stick with Sprint.

OR!

See if Verizon would ever get the iPhone once they (AT&T and Verizon) finally switch over to LTE.

[Ubuntu]

Why not just Pay As You Go?

This sounds like Pay As You Go with some fancy wording right..?

Yeah, and like, +£70 more than the UK Pay as you go iPhone.

[Theaser]

The iPhone is starting to look more like a normal smartphone now. Very good.

[SFStateStudent]

Ok, all of you people please buy out this existing stock, so I can buy the new, new iPhone with 3.0 Firmware already installed....:p

[MasterNile]

Ok, all of you people please buy out this existing stock, so I can buy the new, new iPhone with 3.0 Firmware already installed....:p

You realize them emptying out old (current ATM) stock probably will not affect the release date of the next gen iPhone?

[nuhusky001]

Listen.. I'm all for unlocked phone under no contract. But this isn't an unlocked phone. So, why should anyone buy that? You can buy a legally unlocked phone off ebay for $750 USD shipped. And its not hacked and you can use it on any network or with any sim card. And you have the choice of not paying for data if you do not want too or pay only for edge instead of 3G.... you have freedom of choice. (I want a ipod touch + GSM phone, no need for internet in my pants)

My situation is I'd pay for a $700 iphone cause for me to switch to a iphone plan I'd be paying $50 more per month for two lines than I currently pay. So, in 9 months I'd recoup the cost. ($750 - $299) / $50 is about 9 months. So I'm buying a 3rd gen iphone this summer from Australia, thank you very much.

[plumbingandtech]

Listen.. I'm all for unlocked phone under no contract. But this isn't an unlocked phone. So, why should anyone buy that? . So I'm buying a 3rd gen iphone this summer from Australia, thank you very much.

Because nothing can possibly go wrong by ordering one from ebay, from an entirely different continent!

;)

[Kwill]

Seeing as how you can only use the iPhone on AT&T anyway unless you hack it, I don't see a whole lot of point to this. You may as well just stick with AT&T and sign a 2 year contract.

AT&T is anticipating customer outrage when a new must-have RDF iPhone is announced. Everyone already locked into a contract would not normally qualify for a new phone. Instead of the sour response of turning down all those customers, AT&T will offer revenue generating lemonade.

[plumbingandtech]

Everyone already locked into a contract would not normally qualify for a new phone.

When the 3G shipped I was 1 year (out of 2 years) into my iPhone Edge contract, I qualified to buy a 3G, and yes my contract was extended which was no big deal to me...

I believe/expect it to be the same for the 3G.X iphone this summer.

[lazydesi]

it's now cheaper in aus
@ todays exchange rate $524 for 8GB & $610 for 16GB model

http://personal.optus.com.au/web/ocaportal.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=prepaid_mobile&productpath=/personal/mobile&FP=/personal/mobile/prepaidmobile&site=personal

[polaris20]

I see a point: Spend $400 more upfront to avoid having to pay $30/month x 24 months=$720 for a data plan that I can live without.

I guess I just view the iPhone as largely useless without the data plan. I'd just buy an iTouch and a cheap flip phone for a phone then, and then while I'd have to carry a phone and an iTouch, I wouldn't have spent $600 for the convenience of having it in one device.

[Anaemik]

well clearly youve never been to europe, and if u have or are european then wtf. France 700 euros (i think) and Switzerlan 1200 CHF (in dollars its just a bit less)

I live in the UK - the home of extortionate pricing. It's even more expensive in the UK for a PAYG phone than the $700 AT&T are asking (or at least it was before the £ died a death). None of this contradicts my original assertion that the pricing is absolutely ridiculous for what is essentially a telephone.

I find it quite amazing that an 8GB iPhone is more than double the price of an 8GB iPod Touch.

[Kilamite]

...that the pricing is absolutely ridiculous for what is essentially a telephone.

It is expensive, but this is far more than just a telephone..

And Macs are expensive - Apple doesn't do cheap.

[Jimmy James]

I guess I just view the iPhone as largely useless without the data plan. I'd just buy an iTouch and a cheap flip phone for a phone then, and then while I'd have to carry a phone and an iTouch, I wouldn't have spent $600 for the convenience of having it in one device.

Now that the iphone is getting turn-by-turn gps I may not have to buy that standalone unit I was going to get for a road trip in August.

Since I'll be looking for both a new phone and a gps unit later this year, this could be the ticket. I'm spending the dough anyway and prefer the all-in-one convenience.

[Jimmy James]

I guess I just view the iPhone as largely useless without the data plan. I'd just buy an iTouch and a cheap flip phone for a phone then, and then while I'd have to carry a phone and an iTouch, I wouldn't have spent $600 for the convenience of having it in one device.

Also, it's not useless without a data plan. I'm at coffee shops and libraries every day that provide free wireless. It's entirely worth it to be connected during those times, free of charge, on a device I'd be carrying anyway. I would rarely tote around an ipod touch in addition to my phone. What's not worth it for me is spending $700 over a couple of years for those very rare occasions I need a data plan.

[Mintin8]

I live in the UK. I prefer the iPhone with a data plan. Without is just to much hassle. I wouldnt want to pay £10 a month manually to get 3G after the first year. Well thats how it works in britain, not sure about this one though. Paying monthly is just a lot easier IMO but i can see the other point of view.

[Surely]

When the 3G shipped I was 1 year (out of 2 years) into my iPhone Edge contract, I qualified to buy a 3G, and yes my contract was extended which was no big deal to me...

I believe/expect it to be the same for the 3G.X iphone this summer.

No, you are wrong. This will not be the case.

You were qualified from the first day that the 3G came out to upgrade to it.

This is why:
The 1st gen iPhone was not subsidized- when you bought it, you paid full price for it. You could have upgraded at any point in your contract.

The 3G is a subsidized unit, and (I believe) you need to be at least 18 months (or is it 21 months?) into the 24 month subsidized contract in order to be eligible to upgrade at upgrade pricing. Otherwise, you have to pay the early upgrade pricing which is $399/499.

EDIT: Oh wait. If you're talking about upgrading from the 1st gen to the new 3G.X, then, my apologies, you are right. 1st gen owners will have no issue upgrading at upgrade prices.

I thought you were talking about upgrading from the 3G to the 3G.X. That's what I was referring to above the EDIT.

[polaris20]

Also, it's not useless without a data plan. I'm at coffee shops and libraries every day that provide free wireless. It's entirely worth it to be connected during those times on a device I'd be carrying anyway. I would rarely tote around an ipod touch in addition to my phone.

It's all a matter of opinion. I feel it's useless without it. And spending $600 on an iPhone or $299 on an iTouch plus a free flip phone makes much more sense to me. But again, that's my opinion.

I think $600 to have an iPhone without a data plan is useless and expensive.

[Chupa Chupa]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.

How does a $599/$699 phone clear out soon-to-be "old" inventory? I hardly think people are going to be lining up to grab one.

Besides Apple said last June that ATT would eventually sell no-contract phones. I see this as ATT being a little late.

[acidfast7]

finally, a step in the right direction for you guys, and a big one. would be better if it was fully unlocked, but at least you now have some options (instead of that ridiculous $2k mandatory plan).

[acidfast7]

Hey folks, I'm from Italy.

Here we have iPhone 8gb at 499 EUROS (that at today's change are 673$) and 16GB at 569 EUROS (767$).

So here:
8GB = 673$
16GB = 767$.

And you know what? I think that here in Italy 80% of costumers has iPhone with no contract. Here contracts are made by a very tiny percentage of the population.
So it's interesting to see how shocked are you from that price that in my thoughs are not so elevated for a total free iPhone (but you are more likely with contracts, I understand).

And here's the deal.

In Italy (and in other few countries) iPhone is completly free. And for "completly" I mean: no sim-lock and no operator-lock too.

So I hope that At&t do the same for all of you.

It's little pricy but then you have an iPhone that is totally yours.

BUT. Of course.

A flat is necessary and so you have to see not only if At&t will get iPhone (really) totally free but also WHAT TYPE OF FLAT at&t will offers for no contract costumers.

Anyway can't wait for 3.0, iPhone is fantastic. A geeky bye from Italy, Angelchild.

same here in Sweden, except you can get unlimited data transfer for 8SEK (about 90 US cents per day). and still have the pay as you go for talking and messaging, which is quite nice if you ask me.

[MACingIS4Me]

Hahaha...

I'm sure AT&T got words from Apple

Apple would release a killer new gen iphone. With more processor power, better battery life (improvement learned from 17 MBP), probably include video recording, more capacity, iChat AV Mobile (front video camera).

That's why AT&T must start cleaning inventories, and why not make extra $$$ while doing so.

Um..did you not just see the new 3.0 release? Apple would certainly not add the video camera. Phone cameras are quite bad, iphone does pretty good but to make an apple worthy video recording they will need one hell of a camera for a video app

[jordanbiffle]

I'm lost help me out here.

1. So this is temporary? Because I hope it changes by June for the new iPhone.

2. If the first question is no, then if I want a new iPhone, I can't just buy a new one and sign a new contract, because when the new one comes out, I was planning on singing a new contract since my 2 years will be up in october with my original iPhone.

Someone pleas help.:apple:

[anjinha]

Well we're not in Europe. That's just crazy, but it's just my opinion.

Well I think it's crazy that most people end up paying $100 or more for the iPhone service in the U.S. I pay about $30 (what you guys pay for the mandatory data plan) for voice, SMS and data. If I don't want data I pay only about 15$.

[MasterNile]

Um..did you not just see the new 3.0 release? Apple would certainly not add the video camera. Phone cameras are quite bad, iphone does pretty good but to make an apple worthy video recording they will need one hell of a camera for a video app

I don't see how the 3.0 BETA is related to the things previously discussed, it's only a beta that can easily have features added to it in the future, remember Apple is secretive, and right now the 3.0 beta doesn't show anything that would differentiate the iPhone 3G from the next generation.

[MasterNile]

I'm lost help me out here.

1. So this is temporary? Because I hope it changes by June for the new iPhone.

2. If the first question is no, then if I want a new iPhone, I can't just buy a new one and sign a new contract, because when the new one comes out, I was planning on singing a new contract since my 2 years will be up in october with my original iPhone.

Someone pleas help.:apple:

I think you're confused, they're still selling subsidized iPhones with 2 year contracts, they're just also selling non subsidized iPhones without a contract.

[Jimmy James]

It's all a matter of opinion. I feel it's useless without it. And spending $600 on an iPhone or $299 on an iTouch plus a free flip phone makes much more sense to me. But again, that's my opinion.

I think $600 to have an iPhone without a data plan is useless and expensive.

In the end we both have our needs met. I just get to spend less money over a period of a couple of years, probably because my current requirements are different.

[MACingIS4Me]

I don't see how the 3.0 BETA is related to the things previously discussed, it's only a beta that can easily have features added to it in the future, remember Apple is secretive, and right now the 3.0 beta doesn't show anything that would differentiate the iPhone 3G from the next generation.

I know apple is secretive, but do you really think that apple would hide something as big as a video camera from developers. With that hundereds of new API stuff maybe some developer could make an app that took advantage of a video recorder. Just a thought though.

[MasterNile]

In the end we both have our needs met. I just get to spend less money over a period of a couple of years, probably because my current requirements are different.

How are you spending less money? Do you mean iPhone w/ voice+data plan vs iPhone w/ just voice plan, or iPhone w/ just voice plan vs iPod Touch w/ normal phone w/ just voice plan?

I know apple is secretive, but do you really think that apple would hide something as big as a video camera from developers. With that hundereds of new API stuff maybe some developer could make an app that took advantage of a video recorder. Just a thought though.

Yes, I really do, I mean they (kind of) hid the fact that the iPod Touch 2nd Gen had a full BT stack for how long?

[MACingIS4Me]

How are you spending less money? Do you mean iPhone w/ voice+data plan vs iPhone w/ just voice plan, or iPhone w/ just voice plan vs iPod Touch w/ normal phone w/ just voice plan?



Yes, I really do, I mean they (kind of) hid the fact that the iPod Touch 2nd Gen had a full BT stack for how long?
True, I had that totally forgot about the BT. That's a valid argument. Bottom line though this information from AT&T almost sets in stone that a new iPhone is imminent after WWDC 2009.

[italianface]

Here we have iPhone 8gb at 499 EUROS (that at today's change are 673$) and 16GB at 569 EUROS (767$).

So here:
8GB = 673$
16GB = 767$

[...]

So it's interesting to see how shocked are you from that price that in my thoughs are not so elevated for a total free iPhone (but you are more likely with contracts, I understand).

Angelchild

you are wrong... Prices in Italy are 20% lesss than what you say. You're including taxes (20% in Italy); AT&T prices exclude taxes. This mean that Italian (and pretty much all european) iPhones have an extra price (VAT), imposed by the government, of around 90/100 euros; if you are a business customer you won't have to pay this extra charge.

Beside that, the italian iPhone has a distinctive advantage: it's fully unlocked. Buy it here and use it anywhere in the word, with any carrier and any SIM that you like with fully Apple support. This means: no fuss with upgrades...

American "no commitment" iPhones seems not so affordable to me and, yes, even I'm Italian and I'm used to pay full price for smartphones, I'm pretty shocked by the price as announced by BGR...

[Stella]

If I'm buying the phone outright, I expect a phone to be completely unlocked thus choosing what carrier I wish.

[inkswamp]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

If it were just a phone, you might have a point.

[diamond.g]

If it were just a phone, you might have a point.

Most smartphones are that expensive.

[Michael CM1]

Assuming the ETF for an iPhone is the same as for some generic Sony Ericcson phone (a big if), why not just buy an 8GB for $199 and then pay the $149 ETF?

Even if you do the pay as you go deal, don't you still have to pay for data? Won't that pretty much kill any savings you would supposedly get?

[Jimmy James]

How are you spending less money? Do you mean iPhone w/ voice+data plan vs iPhone w/ just voice plan, or iPhone w/ just voice plan vs iPod Touch w/ normal phone w/ just voice plan?


iphone with voice plan
vs.
iphone with voice plan, plus data plan

I have my internet connection at home in the mornings, free wireless at the library in the afternoon, free wireless at my fiancee's in the evening and free wireless when when I'm at the coffee shop in between.

I was countering the statement that an iphone is useless without a data plan. There was a time when I really could have used a data plan and that time will come again. At this time in my life, as you can see, I have virtually constant access to free wireless and a data plan would be nearly useless to me.

I'm not making a blanket statement, rather I was responding to one.

[roberry82]

The "Early Upgrade" rate is what has me worried. I have a 3G and have been wondering if I'll be upgrade eligible when the new iPhone comes out. It looks like the answer is "Yes, for $200 more."

Well that's the price of the unsubsidized iPhone 3G. If someone who is a current ATT subscriber and in mid-contract on a non 1st Gen iPhone, that's the price they would have to pay to get an iPhone. Also, if say you loose your iPhone 3G or it's stolen and you want to replace it, that's the price you'd pay. It's the full retail price of the phone.

I couldn't imagine the Apple/ATT paradigm would require users to pay the full retail price for the phone we think is coming out this summer. They're is going to be some sort of deal setup for current iPhone customers, hopefully, just like there was last summer. Here's hoping, anyway.

[Angelchild]

Angelchild

you are wrong... Prices in Italy are 20% lesss than what you say. You're including taxes (20% in Italy); AT&T prices exclude taxes. This mean that Italian (and pretty much all european) iPhones have an extra price (VAT), imposed by the government, of around 90/100 euros; if you are a business customer you won't have to pay this extra charge.

Beside that.....

Yes I was wrong about VAT. Just forgot that question (that I know). Sorry! you're right :) (hai perfettamente ragione eheh)

[vvebsta]

Seems reasonable to some. Too expensive for me.

I'll keep holding out for the iPhone on verizon even though its not coming..

Not to sound rude but that seems like such a contradictory statement. Verizon is the most expensive cell phone company in my opinion. They offer 5GB of mobile broadband for $60 bucks a month! I pay $65 for my 1st gen iphone with unlimited internet, 200 texts, 700 minutes and a ton of rollover.

[koobcamuk]

Existing customers?? How odd.

[alexbates]

By limiting the "No-Commit" pricing option to existing customers and one per active mobile number, AT&T is apparently aiming to limit the number of phones being purchased for unlocking and use on other networks.


So what if you are a new customer and want to buy a 3G with no contract? Do you have to pay $1000 for the phone?

This pricing is insane, I would never pay more for $200 for a phone.

[Rondue]

So what if you are a new customer and want to buy a 3G with no contract? Do you have to pay $1000 for the phone?

This pricing is insane, I would never pay more for $200 for a phone.

I want to know what phone is cheaper than 200 dollars? You people are way to used to subsidy

[dwl017]

I don't have an iPhone and really have no interest in getting one but I am wondering what is the average monthly bill? I have heard most folks are paying an average of $75 to $80 per month for the full data plan. Does anyone know if this is true?

Thanks

[PsyD4Me]

i agree with the poster that said that this is a move to clear our inventory for the "New" IPhone to come out in the summer...

[niblum10]

i don't think i could ever justify paying that much for any phone, no matter how great it is

[plumbingandtech]

I don't have an iPhone and really have no interest in getting one but I am wondering what is the average monthly bill? I have heard most folks are paying an average of $75 to $80 per month for the full data plan. Does anyone know if this is true?

Thanks

about that, little above, little below... i think mine is $82 or $79 or something like that.

[Theaser]

i don't think i could ever justify paying that much for any phone, no matter how great it is

Wow, most North Americans are now enslaved to subsidized mandatory contract phones. Shameful. For that price, it is already cheap. Look at this, why are we feeding our mobile carriers money when we should just buy unlocked phones and use it with whatever carrier we want.

700 bucks for an iPhone is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!

[nfl46]

$700 WOW!!!!!!! They've CLEARLY lost their minds! That's a freaking laptop or computer!

[OneMike]

$700 WOW!!!!!!! They've CLEARLY lost their minds! That's a freaking laptop or computer!

Sounds like a lot which it is but when you compare phones like the treo which if not eligible for upgrade you pay like $600 for it's not that crazy. New customers always get the best deal or those eligible for upgrades. Full price for smart phones in gen are usually a lot

[kyleb822]

$700 WOW!!!!!!! They've CLEARLY lost their minds! That's a freaking laptop or computer!

I mean i'm not in favor of the $700 price for an iPhone, but have u seen everything an iPhone can do. You might as well call it a computer in your pocket. :D

[Kwill]

When the 3G shipped I was 1 year (out of 2 years) into my iPhone Edge contract, I qualified to buy a 3G, and yes my contract was extended which was no big deal to me...

I believe/expect it to be the same for the 3G.X iphone this summer.

That's because you, like I, initially paid for an unsubsidized iPhone. The 3G iPhones were subsidized; they are the ones who would likely need to purchase a $700 phone to get the latest technology. Upgrading to the new 3G at discounted rates is possible for original Edge customers.

[Sweetbike40]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

It is nuts. Watch, now some idiots will say we're paying more for a subsidized phone because of the contract. I don't count paying 30 a month for the data plan part of the price of the phone. $30 is so worth having email and internet everywhere i go.

[polaris20]

iphone with voice plan
vs.
iphone with voice plan, plus data plan

I have my internet connection at home in the mornings, free wireless at the library in the afternoon, free wireless at my fiancee's in the evening and free wireless when when I'm at the coffee shop in between.

I was countering the statement that an iphone is useless without a data plan. There was a time when I really could have used a data plan and that time will come again. At this time in my life, as you can see, I have virtually constant access to free wireless and a data plan would be nearly useless to me.

I'm not making a blanket statement, rather I was responding to one.

As I already said, it's just my opinion, not a blanket statement.

[Ted13]

I'd totally pay it IF IT WAS UNLOCKED! If you travel a lot it is totally worth it to be able to buy local SIMS wherever you go. We had the Italian or Belgian laws where all phones are unlocked...

[techpr]

Existing customers?? How odd.

I'm not an AT&T customer and want an iPhone with this option, What to do ???

[yocko]

Jesus, same price as a Mac Mini.

but can you imagine walking with a mac mini stuck to your ear?

[=MuLti-CeLL=]

Bottom line though this information from AT&T almost sets in stone that a new iPhone is imminent after WWDC 2009.

I hope you're right! I wanna see some new hardware this summer!!! :D

[sean845]

What about Rogers I live in Canada will rogers be doing this too? I'm looking into it.

[Flore]

While we are at prices..

You guys should check out the prices in the UAE, we got the iPhone couple of weeks ago.. 1$ = 3.67 AED

iPhone3G - 16GB - Price - Monthly - Minutes incl. - SMS incl - Data (MB) incl.

Postpaid Plan 1 3090 199 125 125 500
Postpaid Plan 2 1205 349 125 125 500
Postpaid Plan 3 925 504 350 200 1000
Postpaid Plan 4 375 643 500 300 2000

12months...

[Lesser Evets]

Only $700???

WOW!!! I'm going to rush out and not buy one.

[darthraige]

Would Apple and Verizon just make a deal already! :mad:

[MasterNile]

Would Apple and Verizon just make a deal already! :mad:

...they can't until at very least June 2009, if not June 2010.

EDIT: nope, not till June 2010

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=535540

[Anorax]

Look, I'm no phone guru, and forgive me if this topic has come up before.... but when will apple see the insanely burgeoning monetary logic in building a device that is totally excluded from this AT&T bondage? Surely their agreement cannot possibly preclude EVERY OTHER mobile device that can be imagined... Give me an "iCell" or whateverTF with "different" features that I can use with any carrier [I would sign any reasonable contract] - done. And if Steve still has a woody for his "price points" then take out the effing camera or something, drop it down a benjamin less than the iPhone and lets make it happen captn....
:confused:

[JForestZ34]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.


This could be true, but think of it this way.. If AT&T can get these customer's with the 1st gen iphone to upgrade they might make more money... With all the new feature's it would be in AT&T's best interest to try to get everybody onto a new phone.. I have this feeling that they will charge for MMS.. I know we pay enough for our plans, but I can see them increasing the text plan from $20 an month to $24.95..


Let's just say AT&T has 8 million iphone customer's that an extra $39 million a month extra for MMS... That is a big difference to there pocket's so I can see that happening.. I hope not because the service for this phone is starting to eat a hole in my pocket...


James

[rstansby]

Look, I'm no phone guru, and forgive me if this topic has come up before.... but when will apple see the insanely burgeoning monetary logic in building a device that is totally excluded from this AT&T bondage? Surely their agreement cannot possibly preclude EVERY OTHER mobile device that can be imagined... Give me an "iCell" or whateverTF with "different" features that I can use with any carrier [I would sign any reasonable contract] - done. And if Steve still has a woody for his "price points" then take out the effing camera or something, drop it down a benjamin less than the iPhone and lets make it happen captn....
:confused:

Apples contract doesn't preclude EVERY OTHER mobile device that can be imagined, just the ones that use the cell phone network. They can make a stripped down iPhone that doesn't offer cell phone service. They do sell such a device and it is called the iPod Touch.

[rtdunham]

...I'll keep holding out for the iPhone on verizon even though its not coming..

seems like a rational approach. :)

[rtdunham]

...Bottom line though this information from AT&T almost sets in stone that a new iPhone is imminent after WWDC 2009.

Is it possible ATT's exclusive with apple expires in June, and ATT wants to clear out some of the iphones they have in inventory, anticipating a slowing of demand (not for the phone generally, but for the phone from ATT)?

[MasterNile]

Is it possible ATT's exclusive with apple expires in June, and ATT wants to clear out some of the iphones they have in inventory, anticipating a slowing of demand (not for the phone generally, but for the phone from ATT)?

It's possible, but most estimates say 2010 is when the exclusive deal ends with AT&T, no one knows for sure except the 2 companies.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=535540

[sean845]

Does Rogers have this TOOOOO?
I LIVE IN CANADA.
OR IS THIS JUST ATT?

[Anorax]

Apples contract doesn't preclude EVERY OTHER mobile device that can be imagined, just the ones that use the cell phone network. They can make a stripped down iPhone that doesn't offer cell phone service. They do sell such a device and it is called the iPod Touch.

I said I wasn't a guru but don't insult me. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't familiar with Apple's product line. I believe I was quite clear about using a loophole in the agreement to make a cheaper PHONE. I have heard the touch described as a "stripped down" whatever ad nauseam- you have pointed out the obvious. If there is no legal way for Apple to make such a device, you could have simply said so. I am willing to admit that I do not know every detail of the agreement.

[automan98]

If they want to limit those who want to jailbreak the device they should work on their price point.

[Jimmy James]

Now go back and watch the original press release for the 3G where Steve Jobs says it's cheaper. Riiight.

[MasterNile]

If they want to limit those who want to jailbreak the device they should work on their price point.

I don't understand, what does jailbreaking have to do with the price point?

[Bryan Bowler]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.

I think you are absolutely correct...

[cubbie5150]

about that, little above, little below... i think mine is $82 or $79 or something like that.

I have a 2G iPhone (since Dec-07) w/ ATT & have the 200 texts/month and end up paying ~$73/month... I think the data plan for 3G iPhones is $10/month more, correct? In any event, I won't upgrade until a hardware upgrade (beyond mere storage capacity) happens.

[funkdis]

In my view, this is a move to CLEAR OUT inventory ahead of a new iPhone model.


same thing happening in Japan, Softbank is giving the iphone away for free, but you must still have the basic plan, that consists of unlimited internet use, and a white plan for calls.
Softbank offer will expire end of May. is that telling us something? June? July new phones?

[Jimmy James]

I hope this is a clear out preceding the release of a new model.

However, the unsubsidized price is the full retail value, so there's not a large incentive to pick one up under those terms. Also, I'd be surprised if they carried more than a month of stock, if that. Unless the release is happening in the next month they'll need to order more stock anyway.

[MasterNile]

same thing happening in Japan, Softbank is giving the iphone away for free, but you must still have the basic plan, that consists of unlimited internet use, and a white plan for calls.
Softbank offer will expire end of May. is that telling us something? June? July new phones?

I thought everyone was already assuming the next gen was coming in June as they've done the past two years.

[rjohnstone]

Fully unlocked to be used with any provider?
Pointless in the USA. The phone's 3G service won't work with any other provider.

[Jimmy James]

Pointless in the USA. The phone's 3G service won't work with any other provider.

Pointless inside the USA maybe, but not pointless for Americans. The ability to travel internationally and simply slip in a local pay-as-you-go sim is sublime.

[JoeG4]

How is it pointless? Using a 3G iPhone on a 2G network (or one like T-Mobile's US network) isn't going to make it explode, it just won't do internet at 3G speeds!

Still beats buying a used 2G iPhone from some shady reseller on ebay for almost the same cash.

[funkdis]

I thought everyone was already assuming the next gen was coming in June as they've done the past two years.

because the general public is as switched on as macrumors, and knows every year around June/July iphones will be released...http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/ugh.gif

[bretm]

It is nuts. Watch, now some idiots will say we're paying more for a subsidized phone because of the contract. I don't count paying 30 a month for the data plan part of the price of the phone. $30 is so worth having email and internet everywhere i go.

Try firing ATT after 1 month and see how much you get to pay for nothing.

[bretm]

I have a 2G iPhone (since Dec-07) w/ ATT & have the 200 texts/month and end up paying ~$73/month... I think the data plan for 3G iPhones is $10/month more, correct? In any event, I won't upgrade until a hardware upgrade (beyond mere storage capacity) happens.

Actually having a 3g vs 2g costs $15 a month more for same functionality. You also have to pay extra for the texts. That's why 2g goes for so much on eBay. A 3g costs $360 extra over 2 years. So that's $199 + $360 = $559. Or the previous pre-sub price of $399 for the 2g. That's an extra $160 in the pot for apple and Att to split up. It was a sweet scheme to get 2g people to anti up for the 3g after paying cash for the 2g. And, they get 15 bucks a monthmore on the contract, plus a 2 year extension. Glad I own apple stock. And even happier I didn't pony up for a 3g.

[Beric]

Wow. An insane price.

Out of curiosity, how much does it actually cost Apple to manufacture an iPhone 3G?

EDIT: Answered my own question: $174.33 (http://gizmodo.com/5025546/isuppli-official-estimate-the-iphone-3g-build-price-is-17433).

[mackiwi]

I said I wasn't a guru but don't insult me. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't familiar with Apple's product line. I believe I was quite clear about using a loophole in the agreement to make a cheaper PHONE. I have heard the touch described as a "stripped down" whatever ad nauseam- you have pointed out the obvious. If there is no legal way for Apple to make such a device, you could have simply said so. I am willing to admit that I do not know every detail of the agreement.

your question does have some relevance, even if the cell network contract is locked up with at&t.

Its possible that apple could release an enhanced ipod touch like device that includes wimax data only connectivity on anyones data network. on this device you could potentially use a ip based service like skype etc to make phone calls, all without violating the voice/cell network deal with at&t

for example, there is nothing to stop you from using any data network you like with a usb data modem on your laptop.

[nowonder24]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront?

[raybo]

For all those complaining about the price of the iPhone, ask Pystar to try to make one...

The iPhone is one-of-a-kind and worth whatever they charge. It is greater that the sum of its parts.

Ray

[iMaggot]

Call me old fashioned, but $700 for a phone is just insanity.

Yeah i agree man, $700 is nuts for a phone :eek:

[iMaggot]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront?

You make a good point man, i wasn't even thinking about this.

[ruinfx]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront?

no-commitment doesnt mean you dont have to have the $30 iphone data plan.

[OS X Dude]

This is like when O2 lopped £100 off the price of the 8GB model last year to make way for the 3G.

These would be prime for eBay - someone who wants it w/o contract but not jailbroken. We can get the iPhone on PAYG here, and it costs £360 for the 8GB and £400 for the 16GB, both include 12 months unltd. data + wifi.

[nowonder24]

no-commitment doesnt mean you dont have to have the $30 iphone data plan.

If no-commitment means I have to have a $30 data plan and I'm not free to use the iPhone on another carrier, than it is indeed worthless.

But I was referring to the general statement, that paying $700 for a phone (I'm assuming no locks and no monthly fees) is insanse.

Here in Europe I can get a lock-free iPhone 16GB for $700+VAT and at least in the two countries that are of interest to me, I can get a postpaid plan for less than $10 a month that perfectly fits my needs.

[ruinfx]

If no-commitment means I have to have a $30 data plan and I'm not free to use the iPhone on another carrier, than it is indeed worthless.

But I was referring to the general statement, that paying $700 for a phone (I'm assuming no locks and no monthly fees) is insanse.

Here in Europe I can get a lock-free iPhone 16GB for $700+VAT and at least in the two countries that are of interest to me, I can get a postpaid plan for less than $10 a month that perfectly fits my needs.

i didnt realize you were in europe. basically you will be able to walk into a store and buy an iphone 3g without signing a contract or activating it. however when you do activate it on att you still are required to add the $30 data plan.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/iphonecontract4.jpg

[Jimmy James]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront?

Quoted for Truth.

Thank you.

Many people, myself included, already have a plan that offers outstanding value or caters to their calling patterns very well. For me the $700 price tag is a relative bargain if I don't have to give up my plan.

[eastercat]

It's possible, but most estimates say 2010 is when the exclusive deal ends with AT&T, no one knows for sure except the 2 companies.
Even if the contract ends in 2010, does this mean that AT&T doesn't have the ability to renew the exclusivity contract? Or maybe Apple will decide to continue the exclusivity with AT&T. The latter seems unlikely. However, I don't think AT&T haters should get their hopes up until Apple announces deals with other wireless companies.
Also, I still can't see Verizon acquiescing to Apple's demands for control over the phone (that's what stopped the iPhone from being on Verizon in the first place). Since I don't know enough about T-Mobile and Sprint, I'll give them the benefit of a doubt and say they'd be willing to acquiesce to the Apple way. :rolleyes:
If the new pricing is how they're going to sell iPhone v3, then I'll probably sit it out. Maybe I'll wait until they have a higher quality camera and 64 GB of storage.

edited: for a typo

[dwl017]

No one in the US or Europe should fall for this! I have never seen a bigger scam in my entire life! no matter how you stack the numbers this is a huge scam! if you are dumb enough or desperate enough to fall for it then its your fault.

[Jimmy James]

No one in the US or Europe should fall for this! I have never seen a bigger scam in my entire life! no matter how you stack the numbers this is a huge scam! if you are dumb enough or desperate enough to fall for it then its your fault.

Fall for what?

[iSamurai]

in the end you would still probably pay roughly the same amount... but the difference is that you still have to pay for the calls/data.

[acidfast7]

No one in the US or Europe should fall for this! I have never seen a bigger scam in my entire life! no matter how you stack the numbers this is a huge scam! if you are dumb enough or desperate enough to fall for it then its your fault.

:confused:

[Ping Guo]

It is nuts. Watch, now some idiots will say we're paying more for a subsidized phone because of the contract. I don't count paying 30 a month for the data plan part of the price of the phone. $30 is so worth having email and internet everywhere i go.

Yah... well there's your problem, because it is part of the price of the phone. You think AT&T is selling subsidized phones out of the goodness of their hearts?:rolleyes:

In countries where they sell unlocked iPhones you can get voice + data for around $30/month.

$299 16gb iPhone + $75*24 = $2099

$700 16gb iPhone + $30*24 = $1420

I went over this many times before deciding to buy my SIM free unlocked 16gb in HK. I have wifi pretty much wherever I go so I only pay about $10 for month for voice/SMS. Since my phone is unlocked if I decide I want it I can switch to a cheap data plan on any provider I choose, anywhere in the world.

Total cost of ownership is all that matters, and some people don't feel like spreading 'em for Ma Bell, month after month.

[acidfast7]

Yah... well there's your problem, because it is part of the price of the phone. You think AT&T is selling subsidized phones out of the goodness of their hearts?:rolleyes:

In countries where they sell unlocked iPhones you can get voice + data for around $30/month.

$299 16gb iPhone + $75*24 = $2099

$700 16gb iPhone + $30*24 = $1420

I went over this many times before deciding to buy my SIM free unlocked 16gb in HK. I have wifi pretty much wherever I go so I only pay about $10 for month for voice/SMS. Since my phone is unlocked if I decide I want it I can switch to a cheap data plan on any provider I choose, anywhere in the world.

Total cost of ownership is all that matters, and some people don't feel like spreading 'em for Ma Bell, month after month.

I agree with you. For a person like me, who spends more money on browsing than on talk/SMS, I think this is an excellent deal (and it's been that way since the iPhone 3G was released over here) because I can get unlimited data transfer for about $25/month. Most people I communicate with all have the same provider, so I don't even pay for calls/SMS. However, if I did use as many minutes as you're given in the states with the money fee, I would be paying an astronomical amount in Sweden.

To be honest, there seems to be a huge difference in cell usage in the states versus Europe (pay-as-you-go). In the US, you must buy the plan (at least to subsidize the phone), so you tend to talk much more to use all of the minutes you paid for. In Europe, the phones seem to be used much less because most people have a pay-as-you-go plan.

In the end, it's all psychology, because Americans are happy with the cheap phone prices and "unlimited" usage contracts. In general, Europeans like the pay-as-you-go approach and are willing to pay the high upfront cost.

I personally like the high upfront cost and the pay-as-you-go. And, if I move back to the states, I'd still do it that way.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the plan ... maybe it will reduce the volume of inane conversations that I hate when I travel through the states :p Maybe Americans will adopt it, and create similar subsequent offers.

[HWM-ITC-Obs]

Certainly none of the distribution and rebate activities of any of Apples iPhone partners, as well in the US as in other countries, happens without Apples agreement or even whish, alone because of legal (e.g. contractual) reasons.

Apple's Marketing has become one of the exemplary in the World since the early 2000es. Today, Apples activities are purely Marketing oriented. I say this as a International Marketing Consultant and University Tutor observing very closely Apples behaviour - and mistakes - with a certain technical understanding - I use Apple since early 80es and Macs since the 128k - and I use Apple's evolution as Closing Case in my courses to show how to do perfect Marketing.

Let me summarize the intel we've got:
- overdue new iPhone HW, compared to the known
Apple and iPhone product life cycles (fact)
- rumors about new iPhone HW
(the pic here must be considered as a face,
the iPhone Name on the back cover is truncated on the bottom)
- rumor about contract-free and unlocked iPhone 3G
- the special offer bundeling by T-Mobile in Germany is limited
to 31.03.09 (and not, like usual, until June or the End of the year)

This looks like Apple is making silently place in the market drowning the existing iPhone G3 in order to prepare a sudden and surprising introduction of a next, 3rd generation iPhone, starting with next quarter, as they did when launching the iPhone G3.

There is also no contradiction in not presenting this device on the OS 3 event: This event was technically necessary to involve developers. Meanwhile Apple has no interest to freeze the market and existing iPhone G3 stocks through announcing or presenting the next generations iPhone.

From a Marketing point of view, all this fits perfectly together.

Criticizing contract-free or unlock-Prizes may be understandable from a simple consumer point of view, but from a holistic and historical entrepreneurial point of view that concerns us all since Steve left and the WW-Crises affected Apple, too, this may be too narrow-minded
.

[MACingIS4Me]

Is it possible ATT's exclusive with apple expires in June, and ATT wants to clear out some of the iphones they have in inventory, anticipating a slowing of demand (not for the phone generally, but for the phone from ATT)?

I doubt it, most rumors point towards the exclusivity contract ending in June 2010. I don't think you will see the iphone moving even after then. Just my opinion though.

[MACingIS4Me]

Even if the contract ends in 2010, does this mean that AT&T doesn't have the ability to renew the exclusivity contract? Or maybe Apple will decide to continue the exclusivity with AT&T. The latter seems unlikely. However, I don't think AT&T haters should get their hopes up until Apple announces deals with other wireless companies.
Also, I still can't see Verizon acquiescing to Apple's demands for control over the phone (that's what stopped the iPhone from being on Verizon in the first place). Since I don't know enough about T-Mobile and Sprint, I'll give them the benefit of a doubt and say they'd be willing to acquiesce to the Apple way. :rolleyes:
If the new pricing is how they're going to sell iPhone v3, then I'll probably sit it out. Maybe I'll wait until they have a higher quality camera and 64 GB of storage.

edited: for a typo

It is highly unlikely that T-Mobile USA will get the iPhone because of their lack of a 3G network. Last time I saw, they had 30ish cities with AT&T and with the new 3.0 firmware update, apple is depending on almost always having 3G service.

[Chupa Chupa]

I see a lot of fuzzy math and odd rationalizations in some of these posts.

1. ATT is offering a "no contract" phone, NOT an unlocked phone. The ONLY benefit is that if you can leave ATT at any time w/o a penalty.

2. You have to be an existing ATT customer in order to be able to buy a "no contract" phone.

3. You still have to use one of ATT's iPhone plans, so there is NO $ savings. It will in fact cost you more since you are paying the same monthly rate as someone with a subsidized phone.

4. Even if you unlock your 3G, In the U.S. I don't know of any carrier that offers a cheap voice/data plan or a paygo plan w/ cheap data rates. So where are the savings? If you live in the U.S. the only reason to unlock an iPhone is if you travel a lot.

5.Comparing plans from a carrier in Country A with that of one in Country B is irrelevant. The fact some company in Europe might sell a $30 voice/data plan is a worthless factoid for U.S. residents. A gallon of gas is .19 in Venezuela. If my car is in California that helps me how?

[guzhogi]

I give that a 1% chance.

I'd give it a .00000000000000000001% of .0000000000000000000001% chance.

[iSamurai]

I see a lot of fuzzy math and odd rationalizations in some of these posts.

1. ATT is offering a "no contract" phone, NOT an unlocked phone. The ONLY benefit is that if you can leave ATT at any time w/o a penalty.

2. You have to be an existing ATT customer in order to be able to buy a "no contract" phone.

3. You still have to use one of ATT's iPhone plans, so there is NO $ savings. It will in fact cost you more since you are paying the same monthly rate as someone with a subsidized phone.

4. Even if you unlock your 3G, In the U.S. I don't know of any carrier that offers a cheap voice/data plan or a paygo plan w/ cheap data rates. So where are the savings? If you live in the U.S. the only reason to unlock an iPhone is if you travel a lot.

5.Comparing plans from a carrier in Country A with that of one in Country B is irrelevant. The fact some company in Europe might sell a $30 voice/data plan is a worthless factoid for U.S. residents. A gallon of gas is .19 in Venezuela. If my car is in California that helps me how?

WOW I think you have just blown a hole through AT&T...

[iriejedi]

Early upgrade is $200 over a new account.... quitting your account only cost you $175 (or less if you are in the new prorated contract).....

So cancel you account and get a new one for $25 less.

Some one needs to tell that that to move inventory you usually drop prices... I think that was Chapter 5 of my MBA text book....

Clear that stock!

[lberk]

I always wanted an iPod Touch and my cell phone all in one. The iPhone seemed like that, except AT&T requires a data package at an additional $30 a month, which my plain old Moto Razr does not, so I still carry two devices. I wonder if this will now be permitted?

[supmango]

Most smartphones are that expensive.

I for one could not justify spending more on an iPhone than I would on a Mac Mini. I guess if you are desperate enough to get your hands on an iPhone to unlock it for another carrier, you might pay that price??? :eek:

[polaris20]

Apples contract doesn't preclude EVERY OTHER mobile device that can be imagined, just the ones that use the cell phone network. They can make a stripped down iPhone that doesn't offer cell phone service. They do sell such a device and it is called the iPod Touch.

I hope that when/if a netbook/mutant iPod Touch comes out that they offer it with built in broadband for $30 a month, in addition to WiFi. That I would most definitely like.

Basically I love my iPod Touch, but would love the ability to have 3G data on it so I could stream stuff while I was driving. The iPhone doesn't make sense for me because the additional phone charges are way too much considering I already have a Blackberry for work anyway.

[diamond.g]

I for one could not justify spending more on an iPhone than I would on a Mac Mini. I guess if you are desperate enough to get your hands on an iPhone to unlock it for another carrier, you might pay that price??? :eek:

I paid $650 for my Treo 650 (and one for the wife as well) when it first came out. So, yeah I personally have no problems with spending the money for it if I think it is worth it.

[iNtrigued]

to make way for the new iPhone later in the year....... or even perhaps this summer in June? You guys think this could be a possibility? hmmmmm????

[AbbyB05]

The real reason that they have such a high price is that there is NO INSURANCE available on the iPhone. Damage it or loose it, and it will cost you $600.00 or $700.00. That's huge for a phone. They are just trying to hose you with a enormous replacement price.

[Anorax]

your question does have some relevance, even if the cell network contract is locked up with at&t.

Its possible that apple could release an enhanced ipod touch like device that includes wimax data only connectivity on anyones data network. on this device you could potentially use a ip based service like skype etc to make phone calls, all without violating the voice/cell network deal with at&t

for example, there is nothing to stop you from using any data network you like with a usb data modem on your laptop.

Thank You -that was my point- for those of us who are only concerned with an internet device and not phone calls at all, I dont see what's holding this back. Instead, I'm going to have to accept some sort of silly "netbook" device which will be bloated, overpriced and make me wish I had brought along my Macbook anyway. And it will be stuffed with features nobody wanted just to make it fit into Apples twisted pricing schemes, making it "artificially" cost more than an iPhone...
I just want to get online; run itunes and safari and get some business done for chrissakes; forget the gaming platform, forget the phone and you can even forget the ipod part AFAIC. I'll just run itunes [or some mini music app] on the effing thing; sync "selected" music from my homebase via MobileMe or even just access a shared library; maybe they can store my selections in my "cloud" [they could even randomly "rotate" selections from my library - I'm paying for ~20GB of storage anyway] ; then I can just stream it to my headphones via my "iCell" yada-yada-yada. It's 2009 -why do I have to carry all this data anyway? Cmon am I the only one thinking? A lot of us consider phones practically disposable items at this point - I beat the crap out of mine. I dont want to carry it around like a gold ingot and I cant stand any particular one for more than 4 months anyway.

Apple adherence to the "hierarchical" pricing will bite them back eventually. And what they are up to now is not the answer to saturated ipod market, fellas. Sometimes just be like mortal companies and offer 3 different versions of something which are all uniquely equipped for a given user.
sorry to ramble...

Apple doesn't have to do cheap, but they SHOULD do efficient.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Well I think it's crazy that most people end up paying $100 or more for the iPhone service in the U.S. I pay about $30 (what you guys pay for the mandatory data plan) for voice, SMS and data. If I don't want data I pay only about 15$.

I need to move back to Portugal!

SLC

[Airforcekid]

Great kills eBay pricing! So much for 700-800 bucks for a 3g!

[gkarris]

The real reason that they have such a high price is that there is NO INSURANCE available on the iPhone. Damage it or loose it, and it will cost you $600.00 or $700.00. That's huge for a phone. They are just trying to hose you with a enormous replacement price.

Not true.

Replacement price is usually $200 over the subsidized price. You are replacing a phone you had already spent money on. The above pricing is for the phone new without a prior purchase and no contract with your own plan.

[jlwillia]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront?

Actually, this isn't accurate either. You must factor for time-value of money. Those $75 future payments are discounted in net present value. The $10 future payments for the cheaper plan must also be discounted. However, the flaw in your logic is most noticeable in that you are paying $700 up-front. The more you pay now, the less that will be discounted for time-value of money.

For those that don't have a financial background: net present value takes into consideration that money received in the future is worth less than money received today. It's similar to the "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" rationale. The reason money is more valuable if you actually have it today is because you can use it to make more money. If you have money in your pocket, you can earn interest on it, etc.

I don't have my financial calculator with me, but I would guess that the $200 down payment and $75 stream of payments for 24 months is actually worth about $1500 depending on interest rates. I would guess the $700 down payment and $10 stream of payments for 24 months is actually worth about $860.

NPV of $200 phone + $75 monthly payments = $1500
NPV of $700 phone + $10 monthly payments = $860

So, you might still be correct, just not 100% accurate. Also, someone with a financial background and a financial calculator capable of doing Net Present Values could make these numbers a little more accurate.

[pan88]

All very nice, those new features in 3.0. The biggest obstacle for the iPhone remains however its limited use for travelers due to insane roaming charges!

An AT&T no-contract option (it already exists in Hong Kong, where Apple sells unlocked iPhones) would be a solution, but, -alas-, some Telecoms such as Soft Bank in Japan have tinkered their SIMs so that they dont work, unless you BUY an iPhone from them, although the same SIMs work on any other phones.

I, as probably most iPhone users would accept to pay for ONE contract with ONE Telecom or even an extra "tax" for using an alternate prepaid SIM in order to avoid roaming charges that can easily reach several thousand dollars-per-month, especially if you use such useful features such as Google maps, LookItUp, etc.

Its the perfect rip-off and it seems that Apple condones it!
Splitting my time between Europe and Japan, I have long lost my enthousiasm for the iPhone and no upgrades whatsoever will change that, until Apple has brought their Telecom partners to reason.

This issue may not concern most US-users but Apple should be aware that it seriously cools down the interest of European and Asian consumers who are often crossing borders.

[acidfast7]

All very nice, those new features in 3.0. The biggest obstacle for the iPhone remains however its limited use for travelers due to insane roaming charges!

An AT&T no-contract option (it already exists in Hong Kong, where Apple sells unlocked iPhones) would be a solution, but, -alas-, some Telecoms such as Soft Bank in Japan have tinkered their SIMs so that they dont work, unless you BUY an iPhone from them, although the same SIMs work on any other phones.

I, as probably most iPhone users would accept to pay for ONE contract with ONE Telecom or even an extra "tax" for using an alternate prepaid SIM in order to avoid roaming charges that can easily reach several thousand dollars-per-month, especially if you use such useful features such as Google maps, LookItUp, etc.

Its the perfect rip-off and it seems that Apple condones it!
Splitting my time between Europe and Japan, I have long lost my enthousiasm for the iPhone and no upgrades whatsoever will change that, until Apple has brought their Telecom partners to reason.

This issue may not concern most US-users but Apple should be aware that it seriously cools down the interest of European and Asian consumers who are often crossing borders.

When I moved here, I was quite surprised how popular the Nokia N-series and HTC smartphones are compared to the iPhone.

[sjo]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.
...
Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.



NPV of $200 phone + $75 monthly payments = $1500
NPV of $700 phone + $10 monthly payments = $860


so basically you're saying that you can get $500 return on $1800 investment over 2 years? and $80 return on $240 investment? pretty decent especially these days :rolleyes:

[adameels]

Just to shed some perspective.... the Pay As You Go iPhone has been available in the UK since just before Christmas.
Charged at £340 ($495) and £390 ($569) (inc 15% VAT) respectively for 8GB and 16GB models.
The price includes 12 months free unlimited data, thereafter it's a £10 ($14.60) a month bolt-on (or requires at least £10 top up, not sure of the details).

[gkarris]

For those that don't have a financial background: net present value takes into consideration that money received in the future is worth less than money received today. It's similar to the "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" rationale. The reason money is more valuable if you actually have it today is because you can use it to make more money. If you have money in your pocket, you can earn interest on it, etc.

That may be the case but, $1 is still $1 more or less over 2 years and last I checked, 1 + 1 = 2... :eek:

[jlwillia]

so basically you're saying that you can get $500 return on $1800 investment over 2 years? and $80 return on $240 investment? pretty decent especially these days :rolleyes:

Yes, but keep in mind that some of that will account for inflation. On paper it sounds great, but that amount of money will buy less two years from now.

That may be the case but, $1 is still $1 more or less over 2 years and last I checked, 1 + 1 = 2... :eek:

Not really though. Let's assume I wish to buy your iPhone from you and that we both agree $500 is a reasonable price. Now lets assume I can't pay you for two years. Wouldn't you want more money because you won't get the full price immediately? You might ask for $800 in two years or $500 today. You might think that no one would do the $800 deal, but in actuality, we would both benefit. I would get the phone now and you would get a much higher price (although it wouldn't be for two years).

Obviously this is a very simplistic example, but you can see how banks operate on a daily basis when they give loans.

I bet if you went to a local bank to get a loan and made the statement "$1 is still $1 more or less over 2 years and last I checked, 1 + 1 = 2" they would have a hard time not laughing.

I digress. My entire point is that as tempting as it is to simply look at the sum of payments for a phone, it's really not that simple.

[alphaod]

No commitment usually means unlocked; probably AT&T responding to recent lawsuits wanting them to remove the Apple/AT&T exclusivity contract.

As with the price, assuming the device is unlocked, that is not for the masses; don't forget it's not suppose to be affordable. It's also to assimilate the last few people who refuse to buy locked devices. Unlocked would mean they can't force you to use any data plan; you would technically, just give them the IMEI for a RAZR or something and then use the SIM card in your device.

Also if update 3.0 is as good at they say, this will make the device very competitive.

Just to give some of you folks what comparable phones price at [release]:
Nokia N95 — $750
Nokia E90 — $1100
Nokia N97 ~ $700 (Estimated)

Yes, I've a Nokia person, but as you can see their high end devices (which are better) cost more, so if this no-commitment price equates to an unlocked phone, the price is very competitive.

And hopefully they let me buy one on my data card account :D

Now if that device isn't unlocked, it's a sham and what's the point of selling it at no commitment if you can't use it anywhere else?

[anjinha]

For those people who bought unlocked iPhones outside of their country, how does the warranty work?

[goosnarrggh]

That may be the case but, $1 is still $1 more or less over 2 years and last I checked, 1 + 1 = 2... :eek:

That's ignoring the principle of net present value entirely.

Look at it this way: if you have a choice of either paying out $1 today, or pay out nothing today, but $making 0.25 payments per year for the next 5 years, which do you choose?

If you pay $1 today, then the total payout is $1.
If you pay $0.25 per year for the next 5 years, then the total payout is $1.25.

If you could put that $1 in the bank today and earn 10% simple interest per year (contrived numbers, I know), then by this time next year when you make your first $0.25 payment, your investment will be worth $1.10. You deduct the first $0.25 payment, leaving $0.85 to re-invest.

The next year when you make your second $0.25 payment, your $0.85 re-investment will be worth $0.93. Take away $0.25 and you're left with $0.68 to re-invest again.

Year 3: You start with $0.75, pay $0.25, and re-invest the remaining $0.50.

Year 4: Start with $0.55, pay $0.25, and re-invest $0.30.

Year 5: Start with $0.33, pay $0.25, and have $0.08 left over.

So, if you decided to go for the full $1 up-front, that $1 is all you'd have to pay ever.

But, if you decided instead to pay nothing now, but made $0.25 payments every year for the next 5 years, then you'd still pay out a total of $1.25, but you'd actually end up 8 cents further ahead at the end of it, than if you'd just paid $1 up front.

In other words, the total of $1.25 you'd pay out over the next five years, is actually worth less than the $1 you'd pay if you made a lump-sum payment today. If your average rate of return on investments (or debts) varies, then the outcome of this little thought experiment would also change.

[zenrock]

But paying $200 + 24*$75 = $2000 for a phone and 2 years service is sane??? I don't understand your reasoning.

Here is a calculation for my situation: My monthly bill (postpaid, but no monthly fees because I don't have a subsidized phone) amounts to less than $10 including voice, text, and moderate data usage. Now assume I would pay $700 for a phone. Then my total cost for a phone and 2 years service is $700 + 24*$10 = $940.

So you are saying it would be more sane for me to pay $2000 instead of $940, just because I'd have to pay $700 instead of $200 upfront? for what no service like the other phones they carry have mms why is it the iphone shouldn't have had mms activated and they should stop blocking it from the iphone if they activate it on the 3g and not the original iphone every customer with a first gen iphone should seek a legal action at at@t so they can be prepared to be sued the iphone can recieve mms it is well documented in europe that it works so cut the bull at@t and apple stop covering up for them

[goosnarrggh]

for what no service like the other phones they carry have **** the iphone should've had mms activated and they should stop blocking it from the iphone or be prepared to be sued hte iphone can recieve mms it is well documented in europe that it works so cut the bull at@t

That's coming in firmware version 3.0. Check out Tuesday's webcast from Apple.

[zenrock]

That's coming in firmware version 3.0. Check out Tuesday's webcast from Apple.
yeah for the 3g not for the orignal iphone they said it's a hardware problem no it's not it's the feq. the iphone use when connecting to the network that is being blocked at the source by detecting the iphone that's why they wipe the system every day to find if there is jailbroken iphones using swirlymms on their system and stop it that is the same why they are gonna block the first gen iphone from the 3g version so it doesn't get the mms service once it comes out in 3.0 firmware what bothered me more is that apple said the first gen iphone can't handle mms so how do they explain the mms apps in the european itunes appstore in portugal and spain the orignal iphones there that they have been working well using it and we all know about this it's well documented how can they even make that statement. if they don't add the first gen phone to get mms i would be the first to seek legal action against them i been getting all my documentation ready to prove my point europeans have been having mms on their iphones now for almost half a year how is it we don't have it in the united states. your gonna tell me it's hardware issue better get your story straight apple i smell money

[sjo]

Yes, but keep in mind that some of that will account for inflation. On paper it sounds great, but that amount of money will buy less two years from now.



yeah, well quite inflation you're expecting since quickly calculated your numbers imply interest rate of about 35%. the market expectation for inflation are now below 1%.

[LifeStar]

Makes me wonder if ATT is slowly trying to purge their current inventory of iphones to make way for the iPhone 3.0. Would make sense as they know that the hardware will be different so why not get rid of the older version and prep for the new coming out in maybe near end of year?

[zenrock]

Makes me wonder if ATT is slowly trying to purge their current inventory of iphones to make way for the iPhone 3.0. Would make sense as they know that the hardware will be different so why not get rid of the older version and prep for the new coming out in maybe near end of year?
i can bet my first born there will be atleast 32g iphone if not 64g one to handle the NEW OS 3.0 firmware and some new hardware like better chipset for graphixs and ram to handle turn by turn gps and file transfer, bluetooth apps ,etc and a better battery and speakers setup with better megapixel camera for pics ,video recording and a fowardfacing one for video conferencing if they are planning to be cutting edge they need to step it up in this game of the smartphone apple can only go so far with apps or the pre and blackberry anroid ,winmo will start setting up to the plate now that they know what they are up against they 'll change their plans

[goosnarrggh]

your gonna tell me it's hardware issue better get your story straight apple i smell money

I honestly believe that the original iPhones hardware could be used to receive MMS under the right circumstances. It's not impossible.

That said, I speculate that Apple may have decided on a specific implementation of MMS handling, and for whatever reason, that implementation is specific to 3G.

so how do they explain the mms apps in the european itunes appstore in portugal and spain
I've never seen any of the European iTunes App Stores, so I don't know for sure.

However, the first generation iPhone was never sold in those two countries - they could easily all be based on the assumption that only 3G iPhones would use the apps.

Alternatively, it may be that those apps use a different implementation of MMS than the one that Apple has chosen. See my speculation above.

[ThomasJL]

What a load of crap! The phone is still locked. For a similar price, you can buy the an iPhone from Hong Kong which is officially (factory) unlocked by Apple.
Don't give greedy AT&T your money. Buy it from Hong Kong instead. No hacking required, as it is officially unlocked.

If you buy from AT&T, you will be voiding your warranty if you unlock it to use with another provider. So buy from Hong Kong instead. Yes, I'm repeating myself, and that's because I hate AT&T and I want them to lose your business!

[RaZaK]

I certainly agree with you on this. Though I figure there will be a lot of people who may pay the higher prices just to not be in a contract with anyone. I wouldn't pay that much for a phone but I am sure there are people who would (maybe not many that would admit to it).

People who get the subsidized phones are paying $500+ in the long run for the cost of the phone and the contract. So, I can see why some people might justify the purchase of the no-contract phone. I just don't understand what they'll do with an iPhone if they don't get that damned 3G data plan. It's pretty useless without the data plan, unless, of course, you are hacking for use on another network.:D

[rtdunham]

i can bet my first born there will be...a fowardfacing one for video conferencing if they are planning to be cutting edge they need to step it up in this game of the smartphone apple can only go so far with apps or the pre and blackberry anroid ,winmo will start setting up to the plate now that they know what they are up against they 'll change their plans

zenrock, what phones & carriers currently have forward-facing cameras and video capacity and are providing video conferencing?

[anjinha]

People who get the subsidized phones are paying $500+ in the long run for the cost of the phone and the contract. So, I can see why some people might justify the purchase of the no-contract phone. I just don't understand what they'll do with an iPhone if they don't get that damned 3G data plan. It's pretty useless without the data plan, unless, of course, you are hacking for use on another network.:D

Or unless you have Wi-Fi pretty much everywhere you go...

[ruinfx]

Actually, this isn't accurate either. You must factor for time-value of money. Those $75 future payments are discounted in net present value. The $10 future payments for the cheaper plan must also be discounted. However, the flaw in your logic is most noticeable in that you are paying $700 up-front. The more you pay now, the less that will be discounted for time-value of money.

For those that don't have a financial background: net present value takes into consideration that money received in the future is worth less than money received today. It's similar to the "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" rationale. The reason money is more valuable if you actually have it today is because you can use it to make more money. If you have money in your pocket, you can earn interest on it, etc.

I don't have my financial calculator with me, but I would guess that the $200 down payment and $75 stream of payments for 24 months is actually worth about $1500 depending on interest rates. I would guess the $700 down payment and $10 stream of payments for 24 months is actually worth about $860.

NPV of $200 phone + $75 monthly payments = $1500
NPV of $700 phone + $10 monthly payments = $860

So, you might still be correct, just not 100% accurate. Also, someone with a financial background and a financial calculator capable of doing Net Present Values could make these numbers a little more accurate.

it should be $700 phone + $75 monthly payments. its no-commitment when buying it but when you do activate the iphone rates still apply.

[nowonder24]

Actually, this isn't accurate either. You must factor for time-value of money. Those $75 future payments are discounted in net present value. The $10 future payments for the cheaper plan must also be discounted. However, the flaw in your logic is most noticeable in that you are paying $700 up-front. The more you pay now, the less that will be discounted for time-value of money.

Sure, time-value was the reason why I wrote that "having to pay more upfront" might be an issue. Still, the effects are not too big (especially given current interest rates). And for this minor amounts of money, I don't put them into saving accounts with nice interest rates anyway. And the interest rate on my giro bank account is around 0.15% ;-)

[nowonder24]

zenrock, what phones & carriers currently have forward-facing cameras and video capacity and are providing video conferencing?

I'm not zenrock, but half the current UMTS phones have a forward-facing camera and all European providers I have experience with are providing video conferencing (many started offering this in 2002). This is like the most normal feature I can imagine.

[diamond.g]

I'm not zenrock, but half the current UMTS phones have a forward-facing camera and all European providers I have experience with are providing video conferencing (many started offering this in 2002). This is like the most normal feature I can imagine.

Also count in a lot of NTT DoCoMo phones in Japan...