Apple Preparing to Use OLED Displays for iPhone and Computers?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-preparing-to-use-oled-displays-for-iphone-and-computers/)

In an article making a broad sweep of claims, SmartHouse revives rumors (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home_Office/Industry/W5M8X6Q2) that Apple will be moving its computer and iPhone/iPod touch displays to OLED technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED), claiming that a representative of display manufacturer LG has confirmed the news.

According to the source, OLED technology will be making its way into Apple's entire lineup of displays, from notebooks and standalone displays to the iPhone and iPod touch. SmartHouse also cites another source claiming that Apple has already created a prototype netbook using an OLED display.

In addition, SmartHouse reports on OLED touchscreen-based notebooks under consideration by Apple:Sources in Taiwan told ChannelNews last month that Apple were looking at an OLED based notebook that will also incorporate new touch screen technology. Now sources in Korea are saying that this information is correct and that one area where LG has been testing OLED panels is in the area of touch sensitivity and "leave behind finger marks".

The sources claim that in recent testing OLED screens used on a notebook attracted "body oils and sweat" when a finger was constantly used on a screen. LG believe that by adding a layer in the manufacturing process that they can eliminate "finger marking".Finally, SmartHouse's sources point to a "wafer thin" OLED screen capable of interfacing with an Apple TV-like product, although no additional details on this are provided.

While the reduced power consumption and superior contrast ratio of OLEDs when compared to traditional LCDs and LEDs have made such a move an attractive rumor since at least 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/2003/05/30/oled-displays-in-ipods/), Apple has yet to adopt the technology in any of its products. Pricing and various technical challenges such as limited lifetimes of the organic components in OLEDs are typically regarded as the most significant barrier to adoption.

The sheer number of claims offered, along with a lack of detail and the revival of a long-standing yet unfulfilled rumor, lead us to be skeptical of these assertions, so we have published this story on Page 2 for interest and discussion.

Article Link: Apple Preparing to Use OLED Displays for iPhone and Computers? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-preparing-to-use-oled-displays-for-iphone-and-computers/)

[iStudentUK]

Interesting stuff, OLED has some big advantages.

I suppose the reduced lifetime is less of a problem for things like iPods/iPhones where they are usually upgraded regularly (the downside of technology moving so fast!). However, people won't be happy if it causes a big price jump...

Still, need some more evidence before I will believe OLED is coming any time soon.

[dohardthings]

Sounds good to me longer battery life only let the netbook rumors die netbooks are a passing phase of the industry not a major market

[Jowl]

Anything to improve my battery life!

[kabunaru]

Maybe that is why the 30" Cinema Display has not been updated yet?

[Spock]

Why would they do this after just now switching almost the entire line over to led, would they switch it over to OLED? that would be a bad move for the desktop line. I can see the iPod and iPhone but after buying a new uni-body MacBook and they do this to the MacBooks Im gonna be mad.

[kabunaru]

Why would they do this after just now switching almost the entire line over to led, would they switch it over to OLED?

Would the Macs have to be re-designed for OLED would you think?

[talkingfuture]

"Finally, SmartHouse's sources point to a "wafer thin" OLED screen capable of interfacing with an Apple TV-like product, although no additional details on this are provided."

I like the sound of that!

[pdurrant]

Consider that the Sony OLED 11" TV costs around $2000 at the moment.

I think it'll be a few years yet before we see OLED Macs or monitors from Apple.

[NAG]

Maybe that is why the 30" Cinema Display has not been updated yet?

Unlikely that Apple would release an OLED display that large. (Can they even get one that big?)

[Bye Bye Baby]

Eventually they will probably will go with such technology. But I think it is a long way off for the moment.

[nagromme]

I like the change from Fluo to LED backlighting because it means long life. OLED would have a much shorter usable life than an old Fluo LCD as I understand it. (Short in hours: but it can last OK in years for a device that's only on for a few minutes a week like a camera or NON-smart-phone.)

So unless OLED improves a lot (and maybe it has) I like the current LCD/LED system just fine.

[Lutris]

OLED production is currently limited to small sizes or high expense. They will be available in large sizes and reasonable prices in a few years, but not in the next year or two. Ars Technica had a piece recently about how the poor economy has slowed progress in OLED manufacturing research -- none of the manufacturers want to pay for expensive new fabs and the current LCD fabs aren't well suited for OLED production.

I sincerely doubt that there is any merit to this rumour.

[Detlev_73]

I would think that if Apple is able to get the right supply channels, mass producing OLEDs would be much cheaper than the 10-20 prototypes Sony may have out there. Just a thought.

Consider that the Sony OLED 11" TV costs around $2000 at the moment.

I think it'll be a few years yet before we see OLED Macs or monitors from Apple.

[RemarkabLee]

At least a year away for portable devices and 2 years for desktop displays.

OLEDs need to offer longevity and defect free mass production before they'll reach our hands.

[bedifferent]

Pricing is a huge factor. OLED is very expensive, but hopefully pricing will adjust with time.

[jpotisch]

Eventually they will probably will go with such technology. But I think it is a long way off for the moment.

Yeah, I have no doubt this rumor is 100% true, provided "preparing" means 2011+ at the earliest.

[chrmjenkins]

Once manufacturers are ready for volume, OLED will become cheaper to produce than current technologies. There are also some lingering lifetime issues (especially relative deterioration, blue does it faster). Analysts predict it will start hitting big time in 2011/2012.

It seems a little too soon for apple to be jumping on it.

[Egnat69]

afaik the main problem with oled is that the different colors have different lifespans although i dont know which colors die first ;)

a quick look into the close past shows me that apple did not tend to usage of brand new technologies in terms of early adopters and i dont think they will change this behavior

and dont forget about the alleged 10 inch display order from last week ... what would they be used for if apple was preparing oled devices?

[ViciousShadow21]

a pure OLED screen can only get to about 12" as was mentioned before. the only way that developers have come up with to increase the size is to combine it with plasma technology. if you are familiar with plasma then you know that it will absolutely kill the battery life. a standard laptop battery could only power a plasma screen for about 30mins. they draw a lot of power. so unless they come up with some other way of doing it i dont see it happening for a long long time.

[slicecom]

Consider that the Sony OLED 11" TV costs around $2000 at the moment.

I think it'll be a few years yet before we see OLED Macs or monitors from Apple.

Truth. It's a couple years off at least.

I would think that if Apple is able to get the right supply channels, mass producing OLEDs would be much cheaper than the 10-20 prototypes Sony may have out there. Just a thought.

Prototypes? The Sony XEL-1 OLED TV has been widely available since 2007. You can walk into your local Sony store and buy one. I'd hardly call them prototypes.

[RemarkabLee]

This (http://gizmodo.com/5070933/samsung-shows-off-giant-40+inch-oled-hdtv) is what I call cool - 40" OLED HDTV :cool:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/10/5A_01.JPG

[elppa]

Apple hasn't even made a full transition to LED yet (iMac, 30" Cinema Display).

I can see OLEDs in their smaller screened devices (such as iPhones and iPod).

[BlizzardBomb]

Nice idea, but OLED is still in its infancy compared to regular LCD. Apple needs to make LED LCD 20" and 24" iMacs first. However, makes perfect sense for small screens like the iPhone where the 18 month or so contract means people wouldn't be too bothered by the OLEDs screen quality decreasing gradually.

[ViciousShadow21]

This (http://gizmodo.com/5070933/samsung-shows-off-giant-40+inch-oled-hdtv) is what I call cool - 40" OLED HDTV :cool:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/10/5A_01.JPG

that tv has got to be close to $100,000. and it is not a pure OLED.

it does look amazing tho. god i cant wait till they figure it out

[oldwatery]

Eventually they will probably will go with such technology. But I think it is a long way off for the moment.

Exactly!
Any high tech company worth their salt look at emerging technologies all the time. It is no surprise Apple are "looking at" OLED but the technology needed to produce the displays needed to cover the range of products suggested is a ways off yet.

[kabunaru]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/10/5A_01.JPG

If this exists, then the 30" OLED Cinema Display can exist as well. Though, the 30" OLED Cinema Display will probably be like $75,000.

[syclick]

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/report-lg-to-supply-oled-iphone-ipod-touch-screens/

A new report states that LG is expected to provide OLED screens for new iPhone and iPod touch models due later this year. Smarthouse, citing sources within LG Korea, claims that the new screens bound for the iPhone and iPod touch will be joined by an OLED-based touchscreen “notebook,” and that LG has been working on increasing touch sensitivity on the screens, as well as working on a new outer layer of covering for the screens to reduce the appearance of finger marks on the screen, left by accumulating body oils and sweat. Finally, the report states that Apple is also looking at a thin OLED screen from LG that will “link with a wireless content device similar to the current Apple TV.”

OLED technology has the potential to improve battery life in formerly LCD or LED-based devices by removing the need for backlighting, as well as improving color ranges, viewing angles, and rendition of true black coloration. Unfortunately, OLED technology has been plagued with considerably lower lifespans than LCD and LED screens, reducing the longevity of OLED devices to under five years when used for 8 hours per day.

[wizard]

I'm not sure where everybody gets the idea that OLEDs are inherently expensive. On the contrary they should be much cheaper to produce in a mass production situation.

The aging issue is real but that is being dealt with. Further smart design would make the display panel element easy to replace. On a phone it probably won't be an issue, on a desktop monitor it would be very useful to have an easily replaced screen (OLED module).

In find this rumor interesting for a number of reasons not the least of which is that huge transfer of money from Apple to LG. That cash would certainly solve the mass production issue. It is also interesting that we have yet to see the fruits of this deal.


Dave

[ViciousShadow21]

I'm not sure where everybody gets the idea that OLEDs are inherently expensive. On the contrary they should be much cheaper to produce in a mass production situation.

The aging issue is real but that is being dealt with. Further smart design would make the display panel element easy to replace. On a phone it probably won't be an issue, on a desktop monitor it would be very useful to have an easily replaced screen (OLED module).

In find this rumor interesting for a number of reasons not the least of which is that huge transfer of money from Apple to LG. That cash would certainly solve the mass production issue. It is also interesting that we have yet to see the fruits of this deal.


Dave

you are right, but just because it doesnt coast a lot to produce doesnt translate to being cheap to buy. they know that they can charge a lot. and ppl will just keep shelling out the $'s. just look at Diamonds. mark-up on those can reach >7000%

[Stridder44]

I'm not sure where everybody gets the idea that OLEDs are inherently expensive. On the contrary they should be much cheaper to produce in a mass production situation.


On paper, yes, they should be. But they aren't, and seem to have no light at the end of the tunnel.

Honestly, I'm wondering if OLED will ever come to fruition.

We've been hearing about it for years and years and years. It's always just on the brink of "taking over the market". Wasn't it supposed to do this in 2006? And they still have yet to make a long lasting OLED panel that is cheap enough for the general consumer. I feel like other tech such as SED will take over sooner.

[Airforcekid]

Maybe that is why the 30" Cinema Display has not been updated yet?

No the max oled at CES was 25 inchs and it cost a ton!

[robollama]

Sweet. Hopefully this is true and the fingerprint reducing layer is also added to the iPhone.

[Dagless]

I'd like to see OLED in the next iPhone revision. Can't imagine them using it in computers yet, maybe this fabled big iPod Touch or whatever the cool kids are calling it now.

Or maybe not. I'm not keen on the lifespan of OLED. I like to keep my computers and iPods and hand them down over the years. Bet Apple would capitalise on a "screen replacement programme (or is it program in this context? bleh)" :p

[That-Is-Bull]

This (http://gizmodo.com/5070933/samsung-shows-off-giant-40+inch-oled-hdtv) is what I call cool - 40" OLED HDTV :cool:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/10/5A_01.JPG

Don't know what's so great about that, the picture doesn't look any better than my monitor's. (totally srs.)

[wizard]

Guys;

I'm not sure where all the OLED negativity is coming from. There are numerous cell phones with OLED screens on the market already. If that doesn't convince you take a look at what is available from the various manufactures. There is a large selection of sceens available now for cell phones.

Now that doesn't mean Apple will use off the shelf screens but does indicate the technology is ready. The nature of OLED screens makes them adaptable to custom sizes anyways.

[kabunaru]

Don't know what's so great about that, the picture doesn't look any better than my monitor's. (totally srs.)

I think that is the most realistic picture-looking TV I have seen.

[ViciousShadow21]

Don't know what's so great about that, the picture doesn't look any better than my monitor's

its the accurate colors and the grey scale that make it incredible. the pic does not do it justice you have to see it in person. it is pretty amazing.

[lazydesi]

sony were releasing thier Mp3 models with OLED displays from this May

[wetrix]

I think that is the most realistic picture-looking TV I have seen.

Do you think you can really judge a screen's quality on a screen (your computer) that is inferior?

[Virtuo]

It only seems natural that this technology be adopted into future Apple products. That said, the SmartHouse rumor seems plausible, but vague as well; there is no mention of a general street date. Even if the claims made by SmartHouse are false, however, we must take into consideration that OLED is an emerging technology (set to boom around the 2011-2013 timeframe, see http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde/xchg/displaysearch/hs.xsl/090312_oled_lighting_to_take_off_in_2011.asp ) and that if Apple continues this trend of smaller/thinner they are going to have to implement this. It's also safe to say that we'll see this in the iPod nano or iPod classic before iPhone and Apple computers.

[ViciousShadow21]

something that Apple has implemented that will most likely impact their decision on weather or not to use this technology is staying green. i know the "O" in OLED stands for Organic but does anybody have an idea about how energy efficent and how biodegradable these displays really are?

[Shubidua]

Just to give some small indications about OLEDs, it happens I just had some work to do about them for university.

The limitation of OLEDs is the blue, if I remember right, because they have a lifetime of about 15,000 hours, whereas red and green have the double of this.
For those hoping for SED to come out, I'm sorry to disappoint them, but SED development is stopped for licence reasons, at least in my knowledge.

For Apple's green list, OLED would be a good point, because they do not use backlight, as they emit themselves the light. Thus displays will be able to be thinner, and view angles wider. As pixels that are black don't block the light like in LED or LCD displays, but just don't emit light, they use far less energy. I can't give real numbers because it depends on usage. Tv's for example, a Plasma which uses about 250-300W, an equivalent OLED will use 120W. I can't remember the exact LCD value, but I beleave it is about 200W.

As others already mentioned, OLEDs are already in use in different small devices, like cameras, mp3s and phones, so my guess is we will see some more anytime soon. Maybe some iPods this year, and an iPhone next year.

The massproduction issue is about to get solved with inkjet technology, so they will literaly print screens ... :)

[Aegelward]

It seems that everyone is expecting Apple's netbook to take on a similar shape to the Vaio P, and why not, it's a damn sexy design. Leonovo are in the works of producing one of the same style, clad in leather like a tanner's shop window, and with full touch screen.

[Fezzasus]

I think there's some confusion about OLED displays. I'll try and clear this up.

Current LCD screens have two components; the backlight and the liquid crystal component; the latter simply consists of many groups of three coloured shutters - a triad (one green, blue and red) which makes a pixel. Electrodes control how open each shutter is, controlling the colour produced.

LED backlit screens maintain the liquid crystal section but simply change the backlit source from a fluorescent tube to a LED, organic LED backlit screens are common place.

True organic LED screens are very different and are a one component system - the OLEDs cover the whole display and are controlled directly to produce different colours. These are not common place as blue OLEDs are very difficult to produce and don't create a clean enough emission to be used as a computer display.

The article seems to confuse the two types of OLED screes. Only true OLED screens will be able to be flexible, thinner and have a different affinity to attract grease from fingerprints. OLED backlit screens are essentially the same as what we have now, and doesn't offer any changes other than increased battery life.

[willygee]

I would take anything published by Smarthouse with a massive grain of salt. The CEO, David Richards is known for inaccurate reporting and plagiarism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Richards)

[EntropyQ3]

The limitation of OLEDs is the blue, if I remember right, because they have a lifetime of about 15,000 hours, whereas red and green have the double of this.

While this isn't as good as the best alternatives, it is good enough for most applications. Unsuitable for devices that are used 24/7 or that all day long and with extended service life expectations. Most but not all work environments would be OK, pretty much all domestic use fits the envelope, and all portable devices are OK.

For me, the advantages by far outweigh the life expectancy drawback. Without solid volumes however, price will be an issue. Apple is a large enough customer to justify building plants to supply them, so the prices they pay should be quite decent. What they will charge the end users for the product is another matter. :)

[guzhogi]

I doubt Apple will put in OLEDs any time soon. From what I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), it's too soon after they released the iMacs & laptops. Secondly, I heard reports that OLEDs have a way shorter lifespan compared to LED/LCD displays, especially blue pixels. Thirdly, if water (let's say maybe from fingerprints) gets into contact with the insides, it ruins the display. Finally, they're really expensive compared to LEDs/LCDs. While these problems will be solved in time, IMO, OLEDs aren't ready for mass production.

[diemos]

oleds are amazing, but who is the idiot who rated this negative?

[Shubidua]

I doubt Apple will put in OLEDs any time soon. From what I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong), it's too soon after they released the iMacs & laptops. Secondly, I heard reports that OLEDs have a way shorter lifespan compared to LED/LCD displays, especially blue pixels. Thirdly, if water (let's say maybe from fingerprints) gets into contact with the insides, it ruins the display. Finally, they're really expensive compared to LEDs/LCDs. While these problems will be solved in time, IMO, OLEDs aren't ready for mass production.

AFAIK you are right on the whole line, but:

- Water/dioxygen problem is being solved by building a protecting layer (can't find the technical english word for it ...). I don't know exactly how far they are, there is defenitely some research running on this issue.

- Laptop/Desktop displays: I agree that the displays they build the time being can not fullfil the requirements for this application, at least if you are not willing to change your display every 3 years.

- Price: the real issue is the production method. For the moment they are using Thermal evaporation, and this is expensive and only for small screens. When inkjet printing will be on the point, in my opinion, it will the beginning of the end of LCD displays.

[ViciousShadow21]

thanks for the info on the OLED's. with what you guys have said it seems like it will be a great addition to apple's lineup. the only problem is going to be getting the life of the screen higher. as you guys said the blue is what they will have to improve on to make this possible.

[mogzieee]

Well :apple: will have to go to touchscreen one day, so this would seem somewhat likely.

[olternaut]

oleds are amazing, but who is the idiot who rated this negative?

Either he doesn't know what an OLED is or he simply hit the wrong button.

[MacFly123]

Maybe that is why the 30" Cinema Display has not been updated yet?

Haha, you think Apple's Cinema Displays are expensive now??? WOW that would cost a FORTUNE!

Yes Apple will go OLED in everything, starting with iPhone and iPod Touch THEN computers due to screen sizes, it is just a matter of time. Probably within the next few years for sure.

I could see not this new iPhone in June but the year after that being OLED!

[kabunaru]

Haha, you think Apple's Cinema Displays are expensive now??? WOW that would cost a FORTUNE!
I predict 30" OLED Cinema Display starting point price: $75,000.

Yes Apple will go OLED in everything, starting with iPhone and iPod Touch THEN computers due to screen sizes, it is just a matter of time. Probably within the next few years for sure.

It's like SSD. First they were expensive, later they become cheaper.
I could see not this new iPhone in June but the year after that being OLED!
Maybe or maybe not. Apple could take a gamble with making the next iPhone with OLED.

[MacFly123]

Maybe or maybe not. Apple could take a gamble with making the next iPhone with OLED.

Apple JUST got the BOM (bill of materials) of the iPhone down when it introduced the iPhone 3G. They are NOT going to screw their margins now that they have such a nice BOM cost and production assembly going unless there is a second high end model with OLED that cost a lot more!

[Mintin8]

It would certainly bump the price up but it's worth it.

[LERsince1991]

you nearly had me there, I was going to wait till june till buying my first macbook which is the £1125 unibody. Instead I will buy asap :P

Will be about 3 years before apple gets OLED into macbooks.

[ViciousShadow21]

Will be about 3 years before apple gets OLED into macbooks.

that's probably the SOONEST you will see it.

[syclick]

I have yet to see an OLED screen in person, but I've heard that they aren't so hot in sunlight. Have they improved this shortcoming yet?

[SactoGuy18]

I do think we will see OLED displays on the iPhone and even the Cinema Display by 2012.

The reason is simple: dramatically lower power consumption compared to current LCD displays. OLED displays even use much less power than LCD displays with LED backlighting! :D

Given that the Obama Adminstration is very receptive to much more restrictive standards for power consumption in consumer electronics, this will drive the technological progress towards better and larger OLED displays.

[eastercat]

Even though it'll be years before we see OLEDs in iPhone or monitor screens (at a price we can afford), it would be fabulous if Apple offered it.

Wizard: would you name which cell phones already have OLED? I'd be curious to take a look at them in whichever store they're being displayed at.
BTW, if the only phones that have OLED screens are not widely available, then, imo, your post was irrelevant. What's the point of mentioning phones with OLED screens if they're not available for dissemination?

[That-Is-Bull]

Wizard: would you name which cell phones already have OLED?

$99 flip phone with full-color OLED main/external displays from two and a half years ago. (http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/nokia-6215i-verizon-wireless/4505-6454_7-32041929.html) That's pretty much all I could find on the first page of a Google search though.

[Sehnsucht]

Maybe that is why the 30" Cinema Display has not been updated yet?

OMFG I wish. :D A 30" OLED panel? + ~$10,000 + :apple:Tax = $14,999. :cool:

I'd order four!!! :D

[robanga]

Overcoming the limited lifetime of the panel will be the most important thing. Could work fine for phones to start. I believe there have been companies showing OLED phones already.

[ALUOp]

It's very likely we will see OLED iPhone and iPod Touch this year as other phone manufacturers are also putting OLED phones to the market this year.
But OLED notebooks or monitors? I think they are still very expensive, and we won't see OLED notebook for at least 3 more years.

[eastercat]

$99 flip phone with full-color OLED main/external displays from two and a half years ago. (http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/nokia-6215i-verizon-wireless/4505-6454_7-32041929.html) That's pretty much all I could find on the first page of a Google search though.
Thanks for that link. The reason I asked was because I suspect the phones with OLED have very tiny screens, in comparison to the iPhone's. I was curious to see if there was an OLED phone with the screen real estate of the iPhone.
The main reason I want to know? I'm curious how much Apple will have to ream us for an OLED screen (and you know they will). :eek:

[SactoGuy18]

Overcoming the limited lifetime of the panel will be the most important thing. Could work fine for phones to start. I believe there have been companies showing OLED phones already.

I think that, plus the fact OLED panels require a completely different production process than backlit LCD panels, is the reason why we haven't seen much progress in OLED displays up till this point. However, the fact that governments around the world like the idea of OLED's very low power consumption means we may see possible governmental help in terms of either financial assistance or tax incentives to develop improvements that will make OLED panels last as long as current LCD panels and build larger OLED panels. Don't be surprised we see reasonably-priced OLED panels in 19" widescreen (1440x900), 20" widescreen (1680x1050) and 24" (1920x1200) sizes by 2011.

We may see 40-50" widescreen 1920x1080 resolution OLED TV's by 2012, but don't expect it to be paper thin; they will probably be about 5-6 mm thick for structural integrity reasons on such a big panel.

[dmmcintyre3]

Do OLED displays flicker?

OLED in a MacBook Nano before MacBook Pro or Air? That would be ridiculous.

[kdarling]

Here are few:

Samsung i7110 and NOkia N85 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/cell-phones/?p=402)

(N85 OLED vs N96 LCD screen comparison article here (http://thenokiablog.com/2008/09/02/nokia-n85-vs-nokia-n96-screen-comparisons/))

Samsung A877 (http://www.oled-info.com/samsung-a877)

And the very nice Samsung Omnia HD (http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i8910_omnia_hd-review-317.php).

[macaliseme]

Either he doesn't know what an OLED is or he simply hit the wrong button.

What I find pathetic though are the number who mark stories as negative and can never be bothered actually constructively writing in reply to the story as to why it is a negative.

[inteljoe]

Consider that the Sony OLED 11" TV costs around $2000 at the moment.

I think it'll be a few years yet before we see OLED Macs or monitors from Apple.

Actually the margin on most OLED TV's is pretty high. For example a 42" or 50" OLED TV at a local best buy will sell for around $4,000, but the price that Best Buy pays for it is generally under $2,000. While for contrast most LCD and Plasma displays sell retail for about $2,000 and it costs best buy in some cases more than what they sell it for, or otherwise a couple hundred dolars less. The reason there is such a discrepency in prices is that the manufacturers don't want to run there LCD and Plasma lines out of business.

[ViciousShadow21]

While for contrast most LCD and Plasma displays sell retail for about $2,000 and it costs best buy in some cases more than what they sell it for, or otherwise a couple hundred dolars less. The reason there is such a discrepency in prices is that the manufacturers don't want to run there LCD and Plasma lines out of business.

i was a CEM manager for Best Buy and believe we very very very rarely sold LCD and Plasma's for a loss. in the 2.5 years i worked there we sold 2 for a loss but they both had service plans and install service on them so we ended up making money, otherwise we would not have sold them for a loss. the only thing we sold for a loss on a regular basis was the rear projection TV's. because they are useless hahaha

[Brien]

Well, if OLED screens are thinner and use less battery life, that lets apple either put in a bigger battery/more chips, or make the device thinner. I think I know which one they'll choose, but hopefully we'll get some more battery life out of this all too.

[powers74]

Ars Technica had a piece recently about how the poor economy has slowed progress in OLED manufacturing research -- none of the manufacturers want to pay for expensive new fabs and the current LCD fabs aren't well suited for OLED production.



Which is sad, because smart companies like Apple know that a down economy is the best time to invest in emerging tech. Which it looks to be exactly what they are doing. This is good news, though the results are a few years out.

[albusseverus]

There's a few factors to look at here, before trying to draw any conclusions.

Firstly, OLEDs are expensive (no matter what the theory) - $2499 at Amazon for an 11" Sony television. Apple doesn't even make a screen that small (rumoured netbooks aside) and they certainly don't pay that price for a monitor, not even the 30". Smaller OLEDs are much cheaper, so iPhone/iPod Touch devices might appear in the next 12 months, but you can forget even a 10" OLED netbook in the foreseeable future.

Secondly, Apple hasn't made the transition to LED monitors yet. That technology is not widespread in the (Windows) computer world and nowhere cheap enough for Apple's preferred margin to be applied.

Thirdly, Apple's product development time is said to be 2 years. They put a team on "gutting and redesigning" the Mac Mini May last year and we still haven't seen the results of that yet, so 2 years seems to be correct.

So in the next year we can expect OLED to appear in maybe small touch devices, not a netbook.

LED displays might make it to iMac, more than 12 months away. They just seem to be too expensive at the moment. See how common they become in the wider computer community in the next 12 months.

With the 30", Apple's in a sky's-the-limit situation, selling mostly/initially to professionals who will pay whatever it costs to get a better monitor. Even so, a LED will be $5000 and OLED is out of the question.

Except small Touch devices, OLED looks to be 2 years away, which is consistent with Apple's product cycle - buy OLED now, release the product in 2 years when the price of the displays has fallen to a point it can be included in iMacs, say.

That leaves MacBooks - which actually have made the transition to LED, but the prices of >11" OLED displays frankly put them nearly 2 years away in MacBooks, maybe a high end option (15", 17") in built to order, but not for a year or more.

And lastly, and most disturbingly, OLED television technology has remained pretty much unchanged in nearly 2 years, compared with LCD which has almost squeezed out plasma (not for technical superiority, but on price alone). LED televisions are nowhere near common and OLED televisions are still a curiosity, not showing any signs of mass production (you can't count an 11", I'm sorry). And I haven't even canvassed life span and reliability, but that's probably why the technology seems to have stood still - working out the bugs. Sony did jump very early on OLED and increased expectations about OLED's arrival in the marketplace.

I'm not holding my breath. There was a lot of disappointment in the iMac/Mini releases this year. Apple isn't moving ahead anywhere near as fast as the fans would like it to.

[wizard]

There's a few factors to look at here, before trying to draw any conclusions.

Firstly, OLEDs are expensive (no matter what the theory) - $2499 at Amazon for an 11" Sony television. Apple doesn't even make a screen that small (rumoured netbooks aside) and they certainly don't pay that price for a monitor, not even the 30". Smaller OLEDs are much cheaper, so iPhone/iPod Touch devices might appear in the next 12 months, but you can forget even a 10" OLED netbook in the foreseeable future.

First off you have no idea why that Sony TV is priced the way it is. Just because the appliance is high priced you can not infer that the parts inside are expensive. Considering we are talking about Apple here I'm surprised that that people would try to associate sticker price with the value of the internals.

As to the iPhone, OLED have been in use for some time on cell phones. In any event if Apple has already paid up front for a production line and if that line is for OLED screens, then we can expect them at a reasonable price.


Secondly, Apple hasn't made the transition to LED monitors yet. That technology is not widespread in the (Windows) computer world and nowhere cheap enough for Apple's preferred margin to be applied.

That is one point of view and could be valid. On the other hand LG might have finished the R&D required to transistion to mass production. Apple simply might not think that LED backlight screens are worth transistioning to.


Thirdly, Apple's product development time is said to be 2 years. They put a team on "gutting and redesigning" the Mac Mini May last year and we still haven't seen the results of that yet, so 2 years seems to be correct.

What do you call the latest Mini? The Mini is an established product so engineering is far more focused when it is updated.


So in the next year we can expect OLED to appear in maybe small touch devices, not a netbook.

I wouldn't even want to wager on this and I've been tracking the tech for a couple years now. Many have been projecting a transition to OLED this year.

LED displays might make it to iMac, more than 12 months away. They just seem to be too expensive at the moment. See how common they become in the wider computer community in the next 12 months.

Actually I'm thinking laptops first, mostly because because of the strengths that OLED have. That is the low power and thinnest work well in laptops.

With the 30", Apple's in a sky's-the-limit situation, selling mostly/initially to professionals who will pay whatever it costs to get a better monitor. Even so, a LED will be $5000 and OLED is out of the question.

A good question here is what makes an LED backlight screen so expensive? Technically nothing as white light LEDs are commonly available. The control circuitry is simple and certainly no worst than that required for flourescents. LEDs even have advantages that can be implemented.

In anyevent the expense of LED backlight has nothing to do with the cost of the components inside. Not at this point anyways, as long as demand outstrips production and people are willing to pay we will have very expensive LED back lite screens. Expensive LED screens are just what the manufactures want right now, it is good for the bottom line to sell cheap stuff at a high prices.


Except small Touch devices, OLED looks to be 2 years away, which is consistent with Apple's product cycle - buy OLED now, release the product in 2 years when the price of the displays has fallen to a point it can be included in iMacs, say.

Huh?


That leaves MacBooks - which actually have made the transition to LED, but the prices of >11" OLED displays frankly put them nearly 2 years away in MacBooks, maybe a high end option (15", 17") in built to order, but not for a year or more.

Maybe maybe not. I'm just trying to understand Apples relationship with LG. I just can't imagine them giving all that money to LG with out some sort of exclustivity to a new product. Other wise why not buy off the shelf.

And lastly, and most disturbingly, OLED television technology has remained pretty much unchanged in nearly 2 years, compared with LCD which has almost squeezed out plasma (not for technical superiority, but on price alone). LED televisions are nowhere near common and OLED televisions are still a curiosity, not showing any signs of mass production (you can't count an 11", I'm sorry). And I haven't even canvassed life span and reliability, but that's probably why the technology seems to have stood still - working out the bugs. Sony did jump very early on OLED and increased expectations about OLED's arrival in the marketplace.

I'm not holding my breath. There was a lot of disappointment in the iMac/Mini releases this year. Apple isn't moving ahead anywhere near as fast as the fans would like it to.

Well you got the iMac part right! The Mini was pretty much what I expected. What we need to ask is why, especially the lack of LED back lighting.



Dave

[Data]

Consider that the Sony OLED 11" TV costs around $2000 at the moment.

I think it'll be a few years yet before we see OLED Macs or monitors from Apple.


The price for this tech is still way to high, maybe, just maybe in the iPhone iPod, no no way it's coming to iMac's or displays anytime soon.

[IVIr.S3CR3T]

LED are out dated
OLED are better in every way. i don't see apple applying this technology on the iMac but, i do see them introducing this technology on iPod and the iPhone

i could see OLED in a Mac book

but who knows

[iMacoo7]

Here are few:

Samsung i7110 and NOkia N85 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/cell-phones/?p=402)

(N85 OLED vs N96 LCD screen comparison article here (http://thenokiablog.com/2008/09/02/nokia-n85-vs-nokia-n96-screen-comparisons/))

Samsung A877 (http://www.oled-info.com/samsung-a877)

And the very nice Samsung Omnia HD (http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i8910_omnia_hd-review-317.php).
This is what makes me think that they can impliment this hardware in the new iphone refresh..... People are not going to keep the iphones longer than 4-5 years IMO.... 1st iphone is 2 years old and most are talking about upgrading already, but this is an excellent find !
Food for the brain, thanks!