Apple Announces Release of HD Movie Sales and Rentals via iTunes [Archive]

MacRumors

Mar 19, 2009, 05:13 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-announces-release-of-hd-movie-sales-and-rentals-via-itunes/)

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/03/19/170716-hd_movies_500.png

Apple today announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/03/19itunes.html) that they are now offering high-definition movie sales and rentals through the iTunes Store.Starting today, movie fans can purchase box office blockbusters for download in HD for $19.99 from iTunes, and films will be available as iTunes Movie Rentals in HD for $4.99 within 30 days after release. Customers can enjoy these films in HD on their Mac or PC and on their widescreen TV with Apple TV, as well as in standard definition on their iPhone or iPod with video.

A dedicated HD Movies page has been added to the iTunes Store [iTunes (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewCustomPage?name=pageHDMovies)] to highlight the new content. Pre-orders for the James Bond movie "Quantum of Solace" and the thriller "Twilight" are currently being featured, with additional movies already available.

Previously, Apple had only offered high-definition movie rentals through the Apple TV in January 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-appletv-take-2-price-drop/) and added support for high-definition TV shows via iTunes in September 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/09/itunes-8-hd-tv-shows-grid-view-genius-playlists-nbc/).

Article Link: Apple Announces Release of HD Movie Sales and Rentals via iTunes (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-announces-release-of-hd-movie-sales-and-rentals-via-itunes/)

iMacmatician

Mar 19, 2009, 05:14 PM

Good news! And are these around 1920x1080 or around 1280x720?

Kilamite

Mar 19, 2009, 05:15 PM

About time!

gothamm

Mar 19, 2009, 05:15 PM

"HD"...haha

OneMike

Mar 19, 2009, 05:15 PM

this is pretty cool

dongmin

Mar 19, 2009, 05:16 PM

Good news! And these are 1920x1080 (or so)?

dream on...

Tofaha

Mar 19, 2009, 05:16 PM

if i had :apple:tv ..then maybe :rolleyes:

dalvin200

Mar 19, 2009, 05:18 PM

wasnt this already available :confused:

jonovitch

Mar 19, 2009, 05:19 PM

I'd say Twilight was more of a teenage girl crush drama.

Jon

dimensiondvdrob

Mar 19, 2009, 05:19 PM

I wonder if they will eventually allow people to replace their movies they bought in SD with the HD version for a small upgrade price like DRM-free music.

NT1440

Mar 19, 2009, 05:19 PM

Good news! And are these around 1920x1080 or around 1280x720?

Most deffinatly 720.

Which of course, is still HD.

TuffLuffJimmy

Mar 19, 2009, 05:20 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

iOrlando

Mar 19, 2009, 05:21 PM

so exciting....

oh wait..i been doing this for months already on apple tv..
ho hum

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 05:21 PM

I'm waiting for the Apple TV update when Apple switches from 720p to 1080p before I waste my money on these.

I'm not paying an HD "upgrade" price.

so exciting....

oh wait..i been doing this for months already on apple tv..
ho hum

You haven't been owning them. Cut the smugness.

jaw04005

Mar 19, 2009, 05:22 PM

Good luck storing and backing them up. It's time for Apple to adopt the Amazon VOD model of letting you re-download purchased content.

Mr_Ed

Mar 19, 2009, 05:22 PM

Great news! It makes the Mac Mini even more attractive now. I was considering one to hook up to my TV and easily be able to use other media center apps like boxee or XMBC along with iTunes but the idea that I could not rent HD without an AppleTV didn't sit right with me. Not that I was looking at iTunes as my main media app, but I wanted the option of iTunes HD.

Sky Blue

Mar 19, 2009, 05:22 PM

The iTunes store and the picture in the OP say Bond is $14.99, but the page for the movie says $19.99 :confused:

sneezymarble

Mar 19, 2009, 05:22 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

So you don't have to get off the couch.

theBigD23

Mar 19, 2009, 05:22 PM

$20 to purchase a movie? Sounds expensive to me. I won't be buying ever, but will rent for $5.

NT1440

Mar 19, 2009, 05:23 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

Theres plenty of people that simply dont want to deal with physical (optical to be precise) media anymore.

williedigital

Mar 19, 2009, 05:24 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

1. Don't own Blu-ray player
2. Don't own high def television (but do have nice computer)
3. Convenience
4. Format neutrality

That said, those aren't compelling reasons to me either.

Mr_Ed

Mar 19, 2009, 05:24 PM

wasnt this already available :confused:

Not really. You could only rent HD content through AppleTV. iTunes on your Mac only allowed you to rent SD content (until now).

myca

Mar 19, 2009, 05:28 PM

I'm guessing it'll only work with HDCP compliant monitors/tvs/gpus, will have to wait and see on that one.

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 05:28 PM

I wonder if they will eventually allow people to replace their movies they bought in SD with the HD version for a small upgrade price like DRM-free music.

I doubt it, they still don't allow this for TV Shows.

iOrlando

Mar 19, 2009, 05:30 PM

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 05:30 PM

4. Format neutrality

Neutrality? There's only one left!

And that's HD DVD. :D

What? Every new movie I buy is an HD DVD.

why would i even want to own them? Watch them once and im through with it...why own....

Instant gratification at its best...

TuffLuffJimmy

Mar 19, 2009, 05:30 PM

1. Don't own Blu-ray player
2. Don't own high def television (but do have nice computer)
3. Convenience
4. Format neutrality

That said, those aren't compelling reasons to me either.
:D

I think the only reason someone might buy these is because they have an AppleTV and no blu-ray player.

PS: has anyone seen someone with an AppleTV in the wild? (MacRumors members definitely don't count)

Airforcekid

Mar 19, 2009, 05:31 PM

Didn't they already have hd rental before for an extra buck?

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 05:32 PM

Didn't they already have hd rental before for an extra buck?

Only on the Apple TV.

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 05:33 PM

Didn't they already have hd rental before for an extra buck?

Yes, but not threw iTunes you had to use the Apple TV.

EDIT:Beat me to it.

ipedro

Mar 19, 2009, 05:33 PM

shneady

Mar 19, 2009, 05:33 PM

I'm waiting for the Apple TV update when Apple switches from 720p to 1080p before I waste my money on these.

I'm not paying an HD "upgrade" price.

You haven't been owning them. Cut the smugness.

If you have a plasma TV, why not? Just go for it. 720P on plasma blows 1080P on LCD out of the water any day! Now 1080p plasma, oooowwwweeeeee! This is guaranteed for sure... I'll go for it, no need to wait for 1080p...

I'm excited, I've been waiting on this forever!!!!:D:D:D

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 05:35 PM

Good news about HD purchases. I agree with the poster that says that Apple needs to offer VOD. Storing an average sizes collection of HD movies can't be done on any shipping Mac without adding an after market HDD or external drive.

They are not overly big file size. The dual download of the SD/HD version of the Bond Movie comes out to just 4.92 GB.

stagi

Mar 19, 2009, 05:36 PM

I think this is pretty cool, even though I have a bluray player for some movies (or if I am tired one night) I might buy them through iTunes instead of getting the bluray. Also some blurays are over $30 so you can save a little

shneady

Mar 19, 2009, 05:36 PM

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(

jdechko

Mar 19, 2009, 05:36 PM

I was surprised to see that when you purchase an HD TV show you get an SD copy as well for playback on your iPod/iPhone/older computers that can't handle HD. I hope that stays in place for HD movie purchases.

EDIT: Did not RTFA. Was slightly confused by TFA, then I finally saw the small print on the linked image. Bad eyesight + Small laptop screen + small print. Sorry.

Yay for HD + SD.

Undecided

Mar 19, 2009, 05:38 PM

I'm guessing it'll only work with HDCP compliant monitors/tvs/gpus, will have to wait and see on that one.

That's a really good point. The Apple TV currently does not have such a limitation, and my "TV" (a projector) doesn't have HDCP. Maybe I shouldn't rush to buy the mini after all.

ipedro

Mar 19, 2009, 05:38 PM

I guess if you get a 1TB iMac, you'll be good for some time.

I've been sticking to the rental model on my tv though. I don't often watch a movie more than 2 or 3 times tops. Most just once.

ravenvii

Mar 19, 2009, 05:38 PM

Awesome and all...

But with their captioned movies from a measly 90+ down to a pathetic ~15 now, I'm probably never going to buy or rent any movies from them.

Not Apple's fault entirely, the studios are being pathetic about this - many DVDs already have closed captioning (not subtitles), and QuickTime supports the very same codec! Why don't they just...

Argh, they're so stupid.

sharp65

Mar 19, 2009, 05:39 PM

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(

Too bad the quality of this is no where near the picture of blu ray.

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 05:39 PM

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(

Completely uninformed.

This only the first trumpet as the battle begins. iTunes downloads are the Riders of Rohan charging against the hordes of Sauron on the plain in front of Minas Tirith.

We are NOWHERE near being done with this war.

Super Hi-Vision will come out on disk format at about the same time as 1080p downloads become feasible in the United States.

Think Oliphaunts charging against the Riders after the Riders had beaten the snot out of the orcs (current disk 1080p offerings).

Downloads will NOT beat optical media until after 2020.

BonesSK

Mar 19, 2009, 05:39 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

Umm.. no physical media.. dont' have to go anywhere to buy it.. plays on ipods etc etc.. don't have to buy a blu-ray player to watch HD.. on and on and on

MacsRgr8

Mar 19, 2009, 05:40 PM

US only, I assume...? :(

ipedro

Mar 19, 2009, 05:41 PM

I'm guessing it'll only work with HDCP compliant monitors/tvs/gpus, will have to wait and see on that one.

Great point. The inclusion of DisplayPort in MacMini's and iMacs is probably the reason why Apple is now able to offer this.

I'm gonna read the fine print. This may be just for people with DisplayPort enabled Mac's.

chubad

Mar 19, 2009, 05:41 PM

I guess now we can forget about ever seeing Blu Ray support on Apple computers.:mad:

ipedro

Mar 19, 2009, 05:42 PM

This only the first trumpet as the battle begins. iTunes downloads are the Riders of Rohan charging against the hordes of Sauron on the plain in front of Minas Tirith.

Think Oliphaunts charging against the Riders after the Riders had beaten the snot out of the orcs (current disk 1080p offerings).

What a geek! :D

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 05:43 PM

I guess now we can forget about ever seeing Blu Ray support on Apple computers.:mad:

Pretty much. Good riddance.

NOW if they add it, it will be no sooner than 2015, as I have said.

Marx55

Mar 19, 2009, 05:44 PM

HD what? Which HD?

Is Apple releasing these HD movie downloads as 720p, 1080i, or 1080p?

They are all HD and they are NOT the same. I want 1080p and no less than that.

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 05:46 PM

Great point. The inclusion of DisplayPort in MacMini's and iMacs is probably the reason why Apple is now able to offer this.

I'm gonna read the fine print. This may be just for people with DisplayPort enabled Mac's.

It'll play on any Mac/PC that can handle HD content. If you have any doubts d/l some of the free TV shows in HD and see how they look and sound on your computer.

Steve Jobs=God

Mar 19, 2009, 05:46 PM

Do you get the SD and HD versions as per TV shows?

SciFrog

Mar 19, 2009, 05:46 PM

This is huge.

Been waiting for that forever!

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 05:49 PM

This is huge.

Been waiting for that forever!

Really, you have been waiting for 720p?

jdechko

Mar 19, 2009, 05:49 PM

Do you get the SD and HD versions as per TV shows?

Yes.

From the linked image:

"Every HD film purchase also comes with ... a standard definition version of the movie..."

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 05:49 PM

HD what? Which HD?

Is Apple releasing these HD movie downloads as 720p, 1080i, or 1080p?

They are all HD and they are NOT the same. I want 1080p and no less than that.

It's only 720.

dizzy13

Mar 19, 2009, 05:50 PM

$20 to purchase a movie? Sounds expensive to me. I won't be buying ever, but will rent for $5.

Yeah, if I like a movie enough to own it I will pay the extra $5-10 and get it in bluray, but the convenience for renting is really nice. I've actually rented some nonHD movies so I have something to watch on my MacBook for flights.

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(

Even though most people probably call you dumb for making this statement it is true, but your "matter of time" is a lot longer than you think. 2 things need to happen first...

1) Storage space
It keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, but until we have 100TB as the norm hard drive size bluray won't go away.

2) Internet speed
My 6mbit DSL ain't going to cut it for true 1080p content. Yes, I know there is FIOS and all that, but basically it's like the transition for dial up to broadband. It won't happen overnight. I would think more than 50% of the public would need to be connected on 50mbit/s++ lines for this to happen.

I know I've seen VOD 1080P "bluray quality" on dish network, but it's not bluray quality. Something can be in 1920 x 1080p resolution, but doesn't mean it's bluray.

From wiki:
"BD-Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bitrate of 40 Mbit/s."

I think dish only pushes like half of that bitrate so the files have to be more compressed.

amac4me

Mar 19, 2009, 05:51 PM

So this move is surely interesting as Apple cited the studio concerns about HD movies on iTunes when it was initially rolled out HD movies. Apple then tied it to Apple TV.

So this gets me thinking ... either the studios have backed off their initial demands, Apple has gained some bargaining power, or a major Apple TV revision is on it's way. Perhaps is a combination of all three.

From a product differentiation perspective, HD content only available on Apple TV was an incentive for people to buy an Apple TV. By now removing the HD-Apple TV bundle, Apple must have something in the works for the new Apple TV model(s) that will encourage buyers to make the purchase.

No longer will the differentiator be HD movies on Apple TV. Apple clearly has something for the next Apple TV in that it can now offer HD movies on iTunes.

I've been eagerly waiting for the "next" Apple TV revision. I hope it is released in the near future.

portishead

Mar 19, 2009, 05:51 PM

The real question... How do Apple's encodes compare to typical internal x.264 encodes? CtrlHD?

bacaramac

Mar 19, 2009, 05:51 PM

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 05:52 PM

Umm.. no physical media.. dont' have to go anywhere to buy it.. plays on ipods etc etc.. don't have to buy a blu-ray player to watch HD.. on and on and on

Do people use amazon? Yes. You don't have to go anywhere. You just have to WALK to your mailbox. Has America really gotten that lazy?

velocityg4

Mar 19, 2009, 05:53 PM

Hopefully they have a tiered pricing model. As most movies I would never spend $20 on especially with no box and disc. Especially since some bluray titles sell for $10 at Walmart. That is what I just bought Total Recall for.

If these are 720P I have zero interest then. Especially since I carefully chose my screens to be 1080 native.

If I can watch all of Lost in HD on ABC.com for free, probably 720p. Then Apple should be able to deliver 1080p movies for download especially at $20. Bandwidth is a lot cheaper than Blu Ray discs, boxes and shipping.

Sure people on most DSL lines would have trouble with 720p but some people can handle full 1080p so give them a choice, Comcast gives me 12mbps.

My argument is merely hypothetical as I would not spend more than $8 for a movie that I do not own the physical disc to.

So you don't have to get off the couch.
That was hilarious.

jdechko

Mar 19, 2009, 05:54 PM

So how does this download work? If you get both versions, does it store two files on your computer in iTunes? Or do you only see the one movie and on playback it picks up the HD and when you sync to iPhone it syncs the SD version?

2 files. Both are playable on the computer (it lists them both in itunes). I suppose you could sync the HD version to an iPhone, but it won't play and it will take up a lot of space, so it's better to choose the SD Version ;)

Shivetya

Mar 19, 2009, 05:55 PM

bacaramac

Mar 19, 2009, 05:55 PM

2 files. Both are playable on the computer (it lists them both in itunes). I suppose you could sync the HD version to an iPhone, but it won't play and it will take up a lot of space, so it's better to choose the SD Version ;)

That is crap, Apple should come up with a way around two files in iTunes.

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 05:57 PM

The real question... How do Apple's encodes compare to typical internal x.264 encodes? CtrlHD?

portishead is your signature right? 32gb ssd?

dukebound85

Mar 19, 2009, 05:57 PM

yay for isp's having bandwidth caps....

ryanw

Mar 19, 2009, 05:58 PM

Good luck storing and backing them up. It's time for Apple to adopt the Amazon VOD model of letting you re-download purchased content.

Right!

It's actually more expensive to download the $19.99 HD version than buying the $24.00 blu-ray version. Between the harddrive space you need to have a significant library, and the backup harddrives for when they crash, and potentially the physical media required to eventually remove the content to make room for other stuff... combine that with your time to transfer/backup these large files, etc....

The "renting" makes more sense, just a little pricy.

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 05:59 PM

Porco

Mar 19, 2009, 06:00 PM

OK Apple you've done your unrealistic downloads thing that is about 5 years too early, and which I'm not interested in or could use even if I was, can you give me Blu-ray support now please?

joseph2166

Mar 19, 2009, 06:01 PM

That is crap, Apple should come up with a way around two files in iTunes.

They show up as a single item in iTunes itself - you can set whether it plays the sd or hd version in preferences.

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 06:02 PM

OK Apple you've done your unrealistic downloads thing that is about 5 years too early, and which I'm not interested in or could use even if I was, can you give me Blu-ray support now please?

Again, with this having been made a reality, Apple will not offer Blu-ray until movies are distributed in Super Hi-Vision on disks.

DakotaGuy

Mar 19, 2009, 06:04 PM

At $20.00 a download I'd much rather add to my Blu-ray collection. Why would I want to feed my 1080p HDTV lower quality 720p material that has to be up-converted by the TV? Why would I want to go back to old fashioned lossy Dolby Digital when Blu-ray gives me Lossless Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master Audio and PCM audio feeds?

Sorry this is a poor value and sticking the Apple branding on it doesn't make it better. Enjoy your 720p highly compressed HD movie, while I enjoy my 1080p high bit rate movie with lossless audio.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:04 PM

So how does this download work? If you get both versions, does it store two files on your computer in iTunes? Or do you only see the one movie and on playback it picks up the HD and when you sync to iPhone it syncs the SD version?

EDIT: I don't want to see two versions in iTunes, that would get annoying.

This is how they show up in iTunes

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/masternihilistic/Picture1-1.png

There are 2 different files on your computer, 1 for HD and 1 for SD, but there's only one entry on iTunes and you can pick if you want to watch HD or SD, if you sync the movie with an iPod or iPhone it automatically syncs the SD version

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 06:04 PM

can you give me Blu-ray support now please?

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

SciFrog

Mar 19, 2009, 06:06 PM

Really, you have been waiting for 720p?

1080p over the internet is not ready yet, bandwidth isn't there. A couple more years and maybe we will get it. Want 1080p? Get a PS3 and rent at Blockbuster.

720p is more than enough on anything less than 50''.

dukebound85

Mar 19, 2009, 06:06 PM

Again, with this having been made a reality, Apple will not offer Blu-ray until movies are distributed in Super Hi-Vision on disks.

sadly i agree with you

still i want my bluray and osx

bacaramac

Mar 19, 2009, 06:08 PM

This is how they show up in iTunes

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/masternihilistic/Picture1-1.png

There are 2 different files on your computer, 1 for HD and 1 for SD, but there's only one entry on iTunes and you can pick if you want to watch HD or SD, if you sync the movie with an iPod or iPhone it automatically syncs the SD version

Opps, sorry Apple. You have done well. I am all for downloading HD movies now. Woohoo.

pablol

Mar 19, 2009, 06:10 PM

Man is this deja-vu or what? First we had to pay to upgrade our iTunes music to iTunes Plus... now I've got 30 something movies I've bought on iTunes, so anyone know how much they're going to charge to upgrade to HD?

Honestly, I bought a blu-ray player a few weeks ago and probably won't bother with downloads because the picture is phenomenal on blu-ray, and I agree with others who have posted - why feed my 1080p TV with 720p downloads when I can get a MUCH better picture with Blu-Ray for a few dollars more than Apple charges, and not have to use all this HD space (and back it up to another drive in case something happens?). And for those who don't know, most Blu-Ray discs are region-free... check here to see the list: http://bluray.liesinc.net/index.php?region=a

I really hope this wasn't the kiss of death to see blu-ray drives in Apple laptops.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:10 PM

Again, with this having been made a reality, Apple will not offer Blu-ray until movies are distributed in Super Hi-Vision on disks.

Do you mean Blu Ray players or Blu Ray support?

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:11 PM

Man is this deja-vu or what? First we had to pay to upgrade our iTunes music to iTunes Plus... now I've got 30 something movies I've bought on iTunes, so anyone know how much they're going to charge to upgrade to HD?

Honestly, I bought a blu-ray player a few weeks ago and probably won't bother with downloads because the picture is phenomenal on blu-ray, and I agree with others who have posted - why feed my 1080p TV with 720p downloads when I can get a MUCH better picture with Blu-Ray for a few dollars more than Apple charges, and not have to use all this HD space (and back it up to another drive in case something happens?).

I really hope this wasn't the kiss of death to see blu-ray drives in Apple laptops.

AFAIK there is no option to upgrade SD movies/shows to HD yet.

DakotaGuy

Mar 19, 2009, 06:13 PM

1080p over the internet is not ready yet, bandwidth isn't there. A couple more years and maybe we will get it. Want 1080p? Get a PS3 and rent at Blockbuster.

720p is more than enough on anything less than 50''.

When 1080p comes for download it will end up being a highly compressed encode and it will probably still be stuck with legacy DD 5.1 sound.

Almost every new HDTV over 37" is a 1080p model. When you play 720p material on it the TV has to up-convert everything to the native resolution of the screen. This results in a loss of picture quality.

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 06:14 PM

Do you mean Blu Ray players or Blu Ray support?

Both.

Blu-ray will be the format on which Super Hi-Vision is distributed, as 400GB and 1TB disks will be going into production within the next few years.

There is no possible way that U.S. broadband infrastructure would be able to keep up with Super Hi-Vision filesizes, so around 2015, when 1080p downloads become feasible for everyone, Super Hi-Vision movies will start to be released on Blu-ray disks.

Apple will either have to have Blu-ray support at this time or... just keep ignoring it.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:16 PM

bilbo--baggins

Mar 19, 2009, 06:16 PM

Pretty much. Good riddance.

NOW if they add it, it will be no sooner than 2015, as I have said.

I agree - except it would be nice to have larger capacity discs for backup. Backing up to dozens of DVD's is just impractical.

I suppose the medium to long term future is solid state drives, and until they come down in price, hard drives - for storage and for backup.

There cannot be a decent (long term) future for blue-ray. Downloads for software purchase and media is the future.

Eventually even local storage is going to be pointless.

What annoys me about the iTunes Movies is that they remove some movies from being available to rent. I would much rather pay $5 to rent a movie now, and pay $5 in 10 years time to watch it again, even if it means I end up paying more in the long run. For most movies I'd be happy to never buy - but on the assumption that I can rent whenever I want.

seedster2

Mar 19, 2009, 06:18 PM

LOL - quality at that level should never be more than half the price of a DVD ...

I can buy many new release blu-ray movies for twenty bucks... let alone rent them cheaper... all with REAL image quality and REAL sound quality

couldnt agree more.

I have been monitoring BR price drops via avsforum and rarely spend $20/movie on amazon.

Many think this is a great deal but it's merely wishful excitement. :apple:TV is dead

dizzy13

Mar 19, 2009, 06:18 PM

When 1080p comes for download it will end up being a highly compressed encode and it will probably still be stuck with legacy DD 5.1 sound.

Almost every new HDTV over 37" is a 1080p model. When you play 720p material on it the TV has to up-convert everything to the native resolution of the screen. This results in a loss of picture quality.

Yeah, this is how I think Dish Network does their VOD 1080p "bluray quality"

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 06:19 PM

The only Movie that seems to be Available today that I might consider d/ling is W. That comes out to 5.14GB for both the SD and HD version. Even on my 15 to 20Mbps connection that's going to take a minute or two.

kerryn

Mar 19, 2009, 06:19 PM

My blockbuster bluray rental subscription is cheaper and better quality - why does :apple: continue to think that Bluray is a non starter, when in fact it is vastly better than what they are currently offering?

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 06:19 PM

Blu-ray will be the format on which Super Hi-Vision is distributed, as 400GB and 1TB disks will be going into production within the next few years.

Got a source for that? I haven't heard any studios express interest in support for higher quality than (1080p) Blu-ray.

shneady

Mar 19, 2009, 06:23 PM

Porco

Mar 19, 2009, 06:24 PM

Again, with this having been made a reality, Apple will not offer Blu-ray until movies are distributed in Super Hi-Vision on disks.

I think and hope you're wrong, and you're entitled to your opinion, but please stop acting like you know, unless you do know, in which case please prove it.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Oh, already been there and told them before today make no mistake. :)

dashiel

Mar 19, 2009, 06:25 PM

I'm waiting for the Apple TV update when Apple switches from 720p to 1080p before I waste my money on these.

I'm not paying an HD "upgrade" price.

You haven't been owning them. Cut the smugness.

1080p downloads aren't really worth it over 720p, they'd have to compress the picture so much that you'd be better off with a less compressed 720p picture. think of it this way: you could create a 640x480 JPEG at 80% compression and get a pretty high quality image. to get the same file size on an 800x600 you might have to compress at 60% or lower. so you'll have a higher resolution of a lower quality image. besides any screen less than 50" the difference between 1080p vs 720p is miniscule.

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(

not all 1080p pictures are created equal, all video is compressed using a few of different codecs: mpeg-2, avc, vc-1, the latter two are more recent and more efficient than mpeg-2. ultimately though when you're having to compress an image you want to use the least amount possible with 50gb blu-rays it's entirely possible to have movies that play over 20mbps, that's simply unfeasible over today's broadband infrastructure (docsis 3.0 is a step in the right direction, but nowhere near good enough and nowhere near prevalent enough to be considered a near-term solution).

then there's blu-ray's ability to use dolby true-hd/dts master-hd audio codecs for lossless audio decoding that would add another couple of gigabytes of data. and that doesn't account for extras - which i personally don't care about, but a lot of people do.

nope for the foreseeable future blu-ray is the only way to get the best possible picture/sound available. i'll rent hd movies on itunes and throw them up on my projector, but for anything that i really like or that deserves the best quality it'll be blu-ray for me.

once our broadband pipes are big enough to handle a 4K minimum picture resolution disc based delivery will be superior to downloads, and considering disc's can't handle that resolution yet (for full length movies) discs will be around for a while. aimed at a smaller and smaller enthusiast market, but laser discs did a nice little business in the 70's, 80's and 90's while the masses were consuming the vastly inferior vhs.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:26 PM

Plus, once you download, you can now "give" the file to family friends, and vice versa. That's awesome. You can't do that with your BD unless it's constantly on borrow status. I think that's a great feature of downloading off itunes... just more of my 2c... I know I'm a newb here, oh well

Actually to play the movie on someone else's computer they have to be authorized on your iTunes account, and you can only have 5 people authorized to one account, with Blu Ray you can rip it and copy the file however much you want, so you've got it completely backwards.

pablol

Mar 19, 2009, 06:27 PM

Plus, once you download, you can now "give" the file to family friends, and vice versa. That's awesome. You can't do that with your BD unless it's constantly on borrow status. I think that's a great feature of downloading off itunes... just more of my 2c... I know I'm a newb here, oh well

You can't "give" the file to anyone... it's DRM protected and only works on Macs authorized with your iTunes account. Not awesome at all.

nemaslov

Mar 19, 2009, 06:27 PM

I'm sorry for for less than twenty bucks I could own the DVD and take it with my anywhere and use it on any TV or computer! And if I tire of it I could sell or trade it at a used store.

Goona

Mar 19, 2009, 06:31 PM

blu-ray is just a stop gap, what Apple is doing is the future, we just need more bandwith and better quality to 1080p.

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 06:35 PM

Got a source for that? I haven't heard any studios express interest in support for higher quality than (1080p) Blu-ray.

Of course they aren't now. No one has televisions higher than 1080p outside of Japan. This will change.

I think and hope you're wrong, and you're entitled to your opinion, but please stop acting like you know, unless you do know, in which case please prove it.

Five minutes of research into Super Hi-Vision would show that I am completely on the right track.

Porco

Mar 19, 2009, 06:36 PM

blu-ray is just a stop gap, what Apple is doing is the future, we just need more bandwith and better quality to 1080p.

yeah but VHS was a stop gap, DVD was a stop gap... but the difference is that we could actually use them. Until the internet is up to it HD movie downloads are only feasible to people lucky enough to have the best internet connections and unfussy enough to not care about the lower quality levels.

pkoury

Mar 19, 2009, 06:39 PM

This is absolutely hilarious. I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do for renting HD movies with the new Mac Mini serving as a media center. I guess that issue is resolved now.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:40 PM

I don't understand how people are saying Blu Ray is dead, or HD downloads are dead, both the storage space on optical disks will increase and the speed of internet connections will increase, both will be around until someone makes a huge break through....like maybe 'the grid'?

Goona

Mar 19, 2009, 06:42 PM

yeah but VHS was a stop gap, DVD was a stop gap... but the difference is that we could actually use them. Until the internet is up to it HD movie downloads are only feasible to people lucky enough to have the best internet connections and unfussy enough to not care about the lower quality levels.

Judging by how DVD is still outselling Blu-ray, by a wide margin, people are okay with DVD quality.

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 06:47 PM

Here we go I'm curious to see the quality…

kastenbrust

Mar 19, 2009, 06:48 PM

I'm really hoping for Blu Ray support in Snow Leopard. Do not crush my hopes and dreams Tallest Skil, they're all I have :p

Its not supported, check the SL beta if you have ADC membership.

casik

Mar 19, 2009, 06:49 PM

what i'd really like to see is some good tv shows in canada.... cough lost, the office cough.... canadian tv isn't much to write home about. also i wish i could rent movies the day they came out...

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 06:51 PM

Its not supported, check the SL beta if you have ADC membership.

You're not supposed to crush my unfounded and probably unjustified hopes either. :p

Is Blu Ray support something they could add before the final release or a 10.6.x update? I don't have a ADC membership and am not familiar with programming at all.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 06:54 PM

portishead is your signature right? 32gb ssd?

You mistyped - his sig is 32 GB SSD.

GeekLawyer

Mar 19, 2009, 06:58 PM

This is absolutely hilarious. I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do for renting HD movies with the new Mac Mini serving as a media center. I guess that issue is resolved now.

This does raise a question for me. You made me think of it.

I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for AppleTV? I hope not. But with HD rentals (and purchases) coming to iTunes, maybe Apple is signaling that the Mini is just as well for the living room.

trip1ex

Mar 19, 2009, 07:00 PM

I'm in the DVD looks good enough camp.

littfam

Mar 19, 2009, 07:01 PM

I think this is a step in the right direction for Apple. I like to rent movies, but would prefer to buy them instead. I'm one of those people who likes to watch "good" movies over and over. In a perfect world I would like my library to be all 1080p (now), but thats not happening $$$$$. Now I'll be able to add 720p movies to my library. Sometime in the future.....lets say 2060....i'm sure my library will consist of movies of all different qualities.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 07:02 PM

Judging by how DVD is still outselling Blu-ray, by a wide margin, people are okay with DVD quality.

Blu-ray is being adopted faster than DVD
January 3, 2009 by Mike Ferro

It was a stellar holiday season for Blu-ray with movies like The Dark Knight breaking records. According to two research firms, Blu-ray movies and players were top on most holiday shopper's list. This is pretty much what I predicted a few months back when I compared Blu-ray as this year's Tickle me Elmo.

According to DVDFile, surveys conducted by both, Greenfield and Zogby International, Blu-ray players and movies were ranked high on holiday shopper's lists. In the survey conducted by Greenfield, it also indicated that Blu-ray players were number one on the list of HD TV owners. The survey conducted by Zogby revealed similar results ranking Blu-ray players as second on the list after HD TV.

I indicated that there will be a strong correlation between HD TV adoption and Blu-ray, and these two studies definitely show this to be true. Blu-ray sales are starting to eat away at DVD sales, similarly to how DVD sales ate away at VHS sales over 10 years ago. According to Richard Greenfield, analyst for Pali Capital, indicated that results for 2008 are expected to show a decrease in DVD sales by 6%. This is in contrast to original predictions of flat sales for the year.

Greenfield also indicated that the adoption rate for Blu-ray is much faster than DVD was. He states, "Interestingly, two years into the standard DVD cycle, the DVD installed base was only 1.2 million and players were not nearly as inexpensive as $129 on Black Friday." As indicated before, Blu-ray sales are twice of that of DVDs at the same point in its life.

I predict that the Blu-ray adoption rate is actually much faster than twice that of DVDs when you consider out of the two years on the market, only one year was really spent as the sole format. The first year was spent battling it out with HD-DVD splintering the market in half while leaving many on the fence. [B]This holiday definitely showed that consumers have made the jump to Blu-ray.

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.cfm?ID=18670

philoking

Mar 19, 2009, 07:05 PM

Let's hurry up and rip off all the people we can before Netflix gets streaming new HD content ready.

KopThat

Mar 19, 2009, 07:07 PM

Bye Bye Baby

Mar 19, 2009, 07:07 PM

Finally. I just hope that Apple spends time on increasing the number of films available. It seems that for every movie they add they take one off.

Michael CM1

Mar 19, 2009, 07:09 PM

So I can get a 720p version of the movie without all the bonus features for $20 or I can buy the 1080p Blu-ray version from Amazon for $26? Nice try by Apple, but these studios are still stupid with their pricing schemes. The masses aren't going to pay $15 for a new release digitally that is locked to a computer, portable player (iPod, etc.) or Apple TV-like box.

However, I still applaud Apple for at least doing this to maybe get Blu-ray movie prices to drop even more. Maybe after this venture doesn't overtake the optical disc industry and turns out to be just a small part of it, they will figure out that we want frappin' BD drives on our Macs.

11thIndian

Mar 19, 2009, 07:09 PM

couldnt agree more.

I have been monitoring BR price drops via avsforum and rarely spend $20/movie on amazon.

Many think this is a great deal but it's merely wishful excitement. :apple:TV is dead

AppleTV is far from dead. It's living quite happily in my home and does exactly what I want it to.

I have no intention of buying aTV movies- that's why I purchased an AppleTV in the first place. I look at the rows of SD DVDs on my shelf that I bought and know I won't re-buy for another disk format again. HD rentals make sense for me. That said, some people have been looking for a buy option for a while, so I'm happy for them.

Depending on the size of your screen and the distance you view it from, there might be no benefit whatsoever to 1080 over 720. In my livingroom, the Dark Knight looks really, really great in HD on my 42" Plasma from 8' away. Would I notice the difference on my 92" projection screen downstairs? Absolutely. I just wish people would realize that this, "if it ain't 1080p BluRay it's ****" philosophy just isn't universally true depending on how you're watching.

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 07:10 PM

1080p over the internet is not ready yet, bandwidth isn't there. A couple more years and maybe we will get it. Want 1080p? Get a PS3 and rent at Blockbuster.

720p is more than enough on anything less than 50''.

I agree with you, which is why I bought my 1080p 120hz 52 Sony LCD. There is a huge difference of quality when you get above 50. I just have no urge to go back to 720 for my movie experiennce

portishead

Mar 19, 2009, 07:11 PM

portishead is your signature right? 32gb ssd?

Yes... Also have an internal 250GB drive for media. I never use the superdrive.

Lesser Evets

Mar 19, 2009, 07:11 PM

Good news! And are these around 1920x1080 or around 1280x720?

I am curious about this as well. I looked at the store but they only say HD.

Michael CM1

Mar 19, 2009, 07:14 PM

At US $20 they are way over priced for 720p with distinctly low def audio.

Plus you have to wait at least 30 days after it is released on Blu ray or DVD,
and you don't get any extras.

I've had the appletv for over a year, and I find I download less and less because if you want something new you have to wait.

Some of the HD rentals have been poor quality which is shown up when projected on to a 100" screen.

Any keepers I will buy on Blu ray, and rent anything else by getting off my arse and going to the video store

Sounds about like my complaints. I have really started to like my "rent it on Netflix, buy the keepers from Amazon on BD."

The audio is definitely not going to be ANYTHING like BD. Ooh, Dolby Digital 5.1. Nice audio from 1997. Blu-ray added all of those new audio types, so many that I can't name them all properly (DTS-HD, blah blah). Lossless audio on the movies, which makes a huge difference if you have a newer sound system. People who love just having a TV won't know the difference, but those people probably don't buy too many HD movies.

KopThat

Mar 19, 2009, 07:14 PM

They will be the same as the rentals 1280 x 720

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 07:15 PM

I am curious about this as well. I looked at the store but they only say HD.

They are 720p, that is the best HD Apple offers.

tuzed

Mar 19, 2009, 07:16 PM

Well I can't say anything about overseas, but for some reason Apple has chosen to forget about it's Canadian customers.:mad:
It can't be any harder to negotiate rights to sell in Canada than in America. I mean I get to rent movies on my TV using my cable providers box, but the selection is not the best. If Rogers can do it, why can't Apple?:confused:
It would be great to be able to hook my Macbook up to my HDTV and watch movies off iTunes, but no, Apple chose to forget us.

KopThat

Mar 19, 2009, 07:20 PM

Well it has been a stretch for a lot of people to even know that Blu ray existed, and once you buy your first 40" + plasma or LCD even standard DVD look so much better.

For the HD audio codecs you have to upgrade your AVR to one that can decode them or at least play them passed by PCM

The trouble is when you have invested $1000's on your audio visual gear you want to use the best possible sources.

You don't want to run Panther on your shiny new Mac

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 07:30 PM

citi

Mar 19, 2009, 07:32 PM

Yes... Also have an internal 250GB drive for media. I never use the superdrive.

ahh i.c.

Lyris

Mar 19, 2009, 07:32 PM

jpk32092

Mar 19, 2009, 07:34 PM

Oh yeah. BTW, blu-ray, you have just now become antiquated!!! It's just a matter of time before you're truly obsolete:(
you're being sarcastic right? iTunes has offered movies for years now... is the DVD obsolete? :rolleyes:

perfectsound

Mar 19, 2009, 07:34 PM

Still no love for international people. I live in Sweden and we don't even have TV-shows on iTunes. Why Apple, why?

Westside guy

Mar 19, 2009, 07:37 PM

Do people use amazon? Yes. You don't have to go anywhere. You just have to WALK to your mailbox. Has America really gotten that lazy?

YES WE ARE - You got a problem with that?

Undecided

Mar 19, 2009, 07:42 PM

Can you stream content from iTunes now, or are you still required to download the content in full first?

DakotaGuy

Mar 19, 2009, 07:44 PM

Come on, Apple, this is silly. HD is about uncompromised high quality. Squashing a movie into 3gb - as great as AVC/H.264 is - is a bad plan.

It's about time Apple, the ultimate computer hardware/software provider, embraced Blu-ray Disc, the ultimate home AV format, instead of providing "HD lite" downloads.

+1

Imagine how long it would take to download a movie that equals Blu-ray quality? Blu-ray is here to stay not only because it offers great picture and audio, but because Blu-ray players are designed to be backwards compatible with DVD and CD. Many people have a large DVD collection and they can still play that collection and start collecting and renting Blu-ray.

I think we can all agree that Apple doesn't like Blu-ray, but that is only because they are being stubborn and see it as a threat to their little fake HD Apple TV thingy. Let me know when the Apple TV can play movies at the same bit-rate as Blu-ray and they offer advanced audio formats.

jaw04005

Mar 19, 2009, 07:46 PM

Undecided

Mar 19, 2009, 07:46 PM

I agree with you, which is why I bought my 1080p 120hz 52 Sony LCD. There is a huge difference of quality when you get above 50. I just have no urge to go back to 720 for my movie experiennce

It depends on your distance. See this analysis of size v. distance v. resolution (http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/).

GottaLoveApple4

Mar 19, 2009, 07:51 PM

YES!!! Thank you so much Apple for making my switch to completely digital format even better and more flawless!! Now I can get HD downloads and thus nixing the need for Blu-ray in my house forever. Not that I had it or would ever purchase it anyway...:apple::apple::cool:

ChrisA

Mar 19, 2009, 07:51 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

You mean "...a better quality BluRay disc".

Apple is hoping because you want it NOW and would rather not make a trip to the store or wait for amazon.com to send you the disc in the mail.

I'm sure the other reason for selling 720 is so they can later re-sell the same movie to you in 1080.

DakotaGuy

Mar 19, 2009, 07:51 PM

What I would love is for Apple to create some type of subscription model with both movies and TV shows, a "Download all of the new episodes of your favorite 10 TV series in HD for $14.99/month" or "Five movies in HD per month at $9.99."

Right now I have a 2 at a time plan from Netflix. I pay $14.99 a month. I usually watch about 8-10 Blu-rays or DVDs a month. I also use their free streaming service to watch a few things.

If I was renting from Apple I would be paying more like $50+ a month. Not to mention that Netflix has an AWESOME selection.

Aegelward

Mar 19, 2009, 07:56 PM

If only apple will embrace a subscription model, is it apple stubbornness or is it the movie companies grabbing them by the delicates and dictating policy

michael.lauden

Mar 19, 2009, 07:58 PM

a subscription plan would be great - but man... i will need to up my hard drive space if i plan to store these movies haha... 142MB for 2 minutes... that's about 11Gigs per movie.

but HD looks FANTASTIC on my UMB :)

ibosie

Mar 19, 2009, 08:00 PM

Well if the HD TV shows are anything to go by there really isn't much of a noticeable difference between that and a standard DVD rip. Apple TV needs updating to make the download quality significant. Plus who wants to deal with a second layer of DRM in the HDCP restrictions that are sure to follow?

birch25

Mar 19, 2009, 08:00 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

I don't know where you're getting Blurays for $20. Most new movies are $30.

I do agree that it's a bit much to spend $20 on a digital movie. The $5 rentals are definitely intriguing to me though :D

ChrisA

Mar 19, 2009, 08:00 PM

I think many people here know that 720 is "good enough" for a smaller flat screen TV viewed from 10 or 12 feet distance. But when you BUY a movie you know that you will own it for many years and most people have plans or hope to upgrade their TV at some point.

If you are renting 720 vs. 1080 might not matters (it depends on your TV set) but when you BUY it does matter because you have to think ahead.

Tilpots

Mar 19, 2009, 08:01 PM

Both.

Blu-ray will be the format on which Super Hi-Vision is distributed, as 400GB and 1TB disks will be going into production within the next few years.

There is no possible way that U.S. broadband infrastructure would be able to keep up with Super Hi-Vision filesizes, so around 2015, when 1080p downloads become feasible for everyone, Super Hi-Vision movies will start to be released on Blu-ray disks.

Apple will either have to have Blu-ray support at this time or... just keep ignoring it.

You add a lot to these forums, but you're way off base on these Super-Hi Vision claims. 2015? Maybe 2020, and even that's a stretch. People don't have the disposable income to keep upgrading their equipment every 5 years. Super Hi Vision may become available, but it won't be as far along in 5 years as Blu Ray is now. 1080P will be the standard for many years to come.

Apple's HD quality is akin to their iTunes Plus music quality, 256 is good enough for many people, but true enthusiasts won't be happy until it's lossless.

bommai

Mar 19, 2009, 08:01 PM

twoodcc

Mar 19, 2009, 08:03 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

you mean a better quality blu-ray?

but you do have a good point.

DakotaGuy

Mar 19, 2009, 08:08 PM

Apple's HD quality is akin to their iTunes Plus music quality, 256 is good enough for many people, but true enthusiasts won't be happy until it's lossless.

I actually buy all of my music on iTunes, but when it comes to movies I prefer DVD and Blu-ray. I didn't spend $1,200 on a TV and $1,500 on speakers and a Dolby True HD/DTS HD MA audio receiver to watch movies in 720p with DD 5.1.

Michael CM1

Mar 19, 2009, 08:09 PM

I don't know where you're getting Blurays for $20. Most new movies are $30.

I do agree that it's a bit much to spend $20 on a digital movie. The $5 rentals are definitely intriguing to me though :D

Go to Amazon.com. I didn't see any BD movies for $30 in their top 25. The most I saw was $27, and that was only one. They run sales all the time, and most of their BD new releases are between $23 and $26. The Dark Knight is still $24, and you don't get some compressed 720p version without a single special feature.

To the person who made some mention of having an "all digital" setup without Blu-ray: Dude, Blu-ray is a digital format. There are a crapload of 0s and 1s on those discs, which is what digital is.

whooleytoo

Mar 19, 2009, 08:24 PM

Suggestion to Macrumors: If you'd like to keep your members from dying away with heart attacks, perhaps you could mention if new developments are US-only as this one is! Thanks!! ;)

rented mule

Mar 19, 2009, 08:24 PM

Here we go I'm curious to see the quality…

Wow...here in Canada, canadians enjoy getting their anus filled with the warm penis of ISP's bandwidth caps.

For example and hypothetically speaking, at 5 gigs a movie, Videotron's 50 dollar highspeed internet package will only let you download 4 HD:SD movies before you bust the monthly cap. With Rogers, you'll bust it with 12. Again, this is all hypothetical considering HD:SD movies aren't available in Canada yet...and probably shouldn't because ISPs here would simply get a bigger hard-on and tear their customers' asses.

P-Worm

Mar 19, 2009, 08:26 PM

Five minutes of research into Super Hi-Vision would show that I am completely on the right track.

You're kidding right? Super Hi-Vision is much bigger than going to the cinema. Do you have an IMAX theater in your house? The only future I can see with Super Hi-Vision is with specialized effects work. Sure it's cool technology, but it just isn't practical.

In fact, I don't see screen sizes and resolutions getting that much higher than what it is now. (2k might have a future, though)

Now if we were talking HDR screens, that would be a different matter entirely. The future is going to make the movies more realistic, not bigger.

P-Worm

michael.lauden

Mar 19, 2009, 08:27 PM

Netflix IS great!

and i'd love to be able to instead of having to go out and BUY a blueray player and then go and rent/buy a blueray disc at a ridiculous price - to be able to setup a download on thursday night before bed and watch it with my girlfriend after work on friday.

convenience running on your own hardware is great.

however blueray WILL drop just as DVD did. i just don't think Apple enabling these beautiful videos via download will help blueray's popularity

iMacmatician

Mar 19, 2009, 08:34 PM

Most deffinatly 720.

Which of course, is still HD.Thanks for clarifying. I was thinking they were probably 720 anyway.

randy98mtu

Mar 19, 2009, 08:35 PM

It depends on your distance. See this analysis of size v. distance v. resolution (http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/).

Thanks for sharing this chart. It pretty much nails my feeling on this. I watch a 61" Samsung from about 15 feet and I can tell that 1080p is better, but 720p is more than enough for 90% of content.

I couldn't be happier that they are finally selling 720p movies. Sure I wish they were a bit cheaper, but I have a couple hundred DVD's that I never watch because they are stuffed away in boxes in a closet. I much prefer digital media and I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of quality for convenience and not storing hundreds of discs in some way.

I've had BluRay for over a year. I own maybe 6 movies in that format and I've watched each of them less than twice. Not really worth an additional $5-10 premium (I haven't gotten one for under $25 yet.) And any I have bought I bought with the digital copy included so I could transfer to my iPhone and AppleTV and I've watched those more than the actual disc.

iMacmatician

Mar 19, 2009, 08:37 PM

This is how they show up in iTunes

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc34/masternihilistic/Picture1-1.png

There are 2 different files on your computer, 1 for HD and 1 for SD, but there's only one entry on iTunes and you can pick if you want to watch HD or SD, if you sync the movie with an iPod or iPhone it automatically syncs the SD versionReally cool! They need to expand that feature to other files, so I can "merge" a song and its music video (or other combinations) and choose the one I want to listen to / view.

Kan-O-Z

Mar 19, 2009, 08:45 PM

Completely uninformed.

This only the first trumpet as the battle begins. iTunes downloads are the Riders of Rohan charging against the hordes of Sauron on the plain in front of Minas Tirith.

We are NOWHERE near being done with this war.

Super Hi-Vision will come out on disk format at about the same time as 1080p downloads become feasible in the United States.

Think Oliphaunts charging against the Riders after the Riders had beaten the snot out of the orcs (current disk 1080p offerings).

Downloads will NOT beat optical media until after 2020.

That's not the point. See the thing is for 99% of Americans, a 720p HD quality movie is very good. What you get from iTunes that you will never get from disc media is convenience. Imagine you own an Apple TV, iPhone/iPod Touch and a computer (Mac or PC). Once you buy a movie, it's on all your devices. Take a laptop on a plane or iPhone on a plane. Watch it on your 70" TV at home. Watch it on your computer. It's awesome! Not only that, how easy is it to purchase. Just a click and you have it in minutes! Plus you can give it to family, provided that you use one of your 5 DRM authorizations. Lastly, think about how easy it is to play it. Just a click on a menu and you're there. No need to shuffle around with a rack full of DVDs! Can't do any of that with physical media!

Personally I love Blu-Ray but honestly I also have an Apple TV and there isn't that much of a difference. You almost have to view them back to back to notice. The HD on Apple TV is great and will satisfy 99% of the people out there. I definitely prefer Apple TV/iTunes HD any day!

Kan-O-Z

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 08:45 PM

Well I went to dinner and came back to find it had finished.

caliguy

Mar 19, 2009, 08:51 PM

Does anyone know how big a Blu-ray movie is? As mentioned, these 3 GB "HD" movies offered on iTunes must have a terrible frame rate.

hockeyhammer

Mar 19, 2009, 08:54 PM

Twighlight is not a thriller!!!!!
It is a love movie/chick flick!!!

Also you guys are complainig that a he new rrelease movie
Will cost 20$!? On the Canadien iTunes store 20$ is the base price
For SD!!!!!!!

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 08:55 PM

Does anyone know how big a Blu-ray movie is? As mentioned, these 3 GB "HD" movies offered on iTunes must have a terrible frame rate.

Standard dual-layer BD disks are 50 GB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray#Technical_specifications

Yes, the "HD" movies on Itunes are seriously compressed - and downsampled to 720p or lower.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 08:57 PM

Well I went to dinner and came back to find it had finished.

Did you notice that the "Video Dimensions:" on that property page show that the video size is only 1280x544 pixels?

Has Apple managed to downsample 720p to something very close to 480i - and yet still has the cojones to claim that it is "HD" ????

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163253&d=1237509930

This bit of news is great for Blu-ray - shows that downloading HD content is still one of the
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/310FTGS07TL._SS500_.jpg

(explanation of image) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Games)

caliguy

Mar 19, 2009, 09:02 PM

Standard dual-layer BD disks are 50 GB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray#Technical_specifications

Yes, the "HD" movies on Itunes are seriously compressed - and downsampled to 720p or lower.

Right, I know how big the disks are, but do you know how big the movie itself is?

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 09:06 PM

Right, I know how big the disks are, but do you know how big the movie itself is?

What do you mean? The movie file? It depends. A direct rip of contents can be anywhere from the full size of a single-layer disk to the full size of a dual-layer disk.

I have a 1080p MPEG-4 ripped copy of The Dark Knight coming in at just under four gigabytes.

"The quality must suck!" :eek: No. It looks magnificent. Just as good as any of my HD DVDs on my HDTV.

I don't know what Apple is doing with their movies, other than the fact that they are TERRIBLE at getting filesizes down.

Apple is using 720p... compressed... and they're nudging the filesize of my 1080p rips that look good like tanj.

Samurai

Mar 19, 2009, 09:07 PM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

Me. Why would I want to buy a BluRay DVD Player, have yet another box, have to handle all the DVD media and store them, have to break the copy protection and rip the DVD if I want to watch on my iPhone... when I can instantly buy a downloaded copy from iTunes to watch everywhere and not have any physical media or DVD player?

GeekLawyer

Mar 19, 2009, 09:07 PM

Did you notice that the "Video Dimensions:" on that property page show that the video size is only 1280x544 pixels?

Has Apple managed to downsample 720p to something very close to 480i - and yet still has the cojones to claim that it is "HD" ????

1280:544 = 2.35:1

Looks like rather than include the black borders in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio (cinemascope), Apple has cropped the image to 1280x544.

ViRGE

Mar 19, 2009, 09:09 PM

Did you notice that the "Video Dimensions:" on that capture is 1280x544 pixels?

Has Apple managed to downsample 720p to something very close to 480i - and yet still has the cojones to claim that it is "HD" ????That's not downsampled. 720P defines a resolution of 1280x720, but only for material that is using a 16:9 (1.77:1) aspect ratio. Movies use a range of aspect ratios, 1280x544 is consistent with a 2.35:1 ratio movie.

GeekLawyer

Mar 19, 2009, 09:10 PM

That's not downsampled. 720P defines a resolution of 1280x720, but only for material that is using a 16:9 (1.77:1) aspect ratio. Movies use a range of aspect ratios, 1280x544 is consistent with a 2.35:1 ratio movie.

Well said. ;)

Undecided

Mar 19, 2009, 09:11 PM

Did you notice that the "Video Dimensions:" on that property page show that the video size is only 1280x544 pixels?

Has Apple managed to downsample 720p to something very close to 480i - and yet still has the cojones to claim that it is "HD" ????

No, the second figure represents the actual lines for the film, which depends on the dimensions. The more widescreen it is, the lower that figure will be. There's no point in Apple sending you the black bars that would appear at the top and bottom if it were sending you full 1280x720 frames.

scottishwildcat

Mar 19, 2009, 09:11 PM

Great. Now how about they start offering any Movie or TV content at all in the Ireland iTunes store?

Irish TV channels have no problem securing same-week screenings of the big US TV shows, because with only 4 million people living here, the viewing audience is tiny even compared to our neighbours in the UK. How hard can it be for Apple to secure similar deals?

Cynicalone

Mar 19, 2009, 09:14 PM

I opened the file in Quicktime and it plays at a constant 24 fps. Video quality wise looks the same as any HD TV Show on the iTunes store. If you want a sample of that there are a few shows in HD available for download for free from the iTunes store.

oldwatery

Mar 19, 2009, 09:19 PM

Right now I have a 2 at a time plan from Netflix. I pay $14.99 a month. I usually watch about 8-10 Blu-rays or DVDs a month. I also use their free streaming service to watch a few things.

If I was renting from Apple I would be paying more like $50+ a month. Not to mention that Netflix has an AWESOME selection.

I'm right with you there!
When waiting one day more from Netflix gets you much higher resolution and better sound and sometimes extras all for less money.
I'll personally wait the extra day thanks. But it's nice to have a choice for those who don't care about the quality or price. :rolleyes:

mmzplanet

Mar 19, 2009, 09:26 PM

I agree that netflix is a better option for renting. At least for the cost anyway. But if Apple sold a monthly rental pass for a reasonable cost i would be interested.

Movies I would rather rent. I'd buy or rip what I have, but just the thought of keeping up with disk space and keeping it backed up is too much. Our collection of DVDs has gotten up to 450 for movies. Then add 300 more for TV shows.

Apple should let you redownload purchased movies whenever you like. That way it takes the disk space issue out of the equation.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 09:27 PM

You add a lot to these forums, but you're way off base on these Super-Hi Vision claims.

720p is 0.92 Mpixel.

1080p is 2.1 MPixel.

I don't know if Tallest is really that far off base.

Even though Blu-ray is the best consumer digital format out there, it actually has less resolution than many cellphone cameras, and is laughable compared to most point-n-shoots.

My BD home system is OK (52" XBR-6), but if you're close to the screen even the best BD movies are pixelated. You need that couple of metres distance from the screen.

I think that we'll be seeing a higher resolution format sooner rather than later (and clearly BD is the leading contender for supplying the bits). Whether it's 4K or SHV I won't predict - but 2 Mpixel will be displaced sooner than we might expect.

Note that a 1 TB BD disk would easily have room for a 1080p cut in addition to the 4K/SHV feature - so there's a real opportunity for a new high res format to come out on media that's compatible with the old 1080p stuff.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 09:35 PM

1280:544 = 2.35:1

Looks like rather than include the black borders in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio (cinemascope), Apple has cropped the image to 1280x544.

That's not downsampled. 720P defines a resolution of 1280x720, but only for material that is using a 16:9 (1.77:1) aspect ratio. Movies use a range of aspect ratios, 1280x544 is consistent with a 2.35:1 ratio movie.

No, the second figure represents the actual lines for the film, which depends on the dimensions. The more widescreen it is, the lower that figure will be. There's no point in Apple sending you the black bars that would appear at the top and bottom if it were sending you full 1280x720 frames.

Good, you all passed the test ;) .

Still sad, though, to pay "HD" prices for a 700 Kpixel movie...

Tilpots

Mar 19, 2009, 09:40 PM

720p is 0.92 Mpixel.

1080p is 2.1 MPixel.

I don't know if Tallest is really that far off base.

Even though Blu-ray is the best consumer digital format out there, it actually has less resolution than many cellphone cameras, and is laughable compared to most point-n-shoots.

My BD home system is OK (52" XBR-6), but if you're close to the screen even the best BD movies are pixelated. You need that couple of metres distance from the screen.

I think that we'll be seeing a higher resolution format sooner rather than later (and clearly BD is the leading contender for supplying the bits). Whether it's 4K or SHV I won't predict - but 2 Mpixel will be displaced sooner than we might expect.

Note that a 1 TB BD disk would easily have room for a 1080p cut in addition to the 4K/SHV feature - so there's a real opportunity for a new high res format to come out on media that's compatible with the old 1080p stuff.

So where are you going to fit the 600in TV? I guess houses will be 15-16 times bigger by 2015!:p

oldwatery

Mar 19, 2009, 09:49 PM

720p is 0.92 Mpixel.

1080p is 2.1 MPixel.

I don't know if Tallest is really that far off base.

Even though Blu-ray is the best consumer digital format out there, it actually has less resolution than many cellphone cameras, and is laughable compared to most point-n-shoots.

My BD home system is OK (52" XBR-6), but if you're close to the screen even the best BD movies are pixelated. You need that couple of metres distance from the screen.

I think that we'll be seeing a higher resolution format sooner rather than later (and clearly BD is the leading contender for supplying the bits). Whether it's 4K or SHV I won't predict - but 2 Mpixel will be displaced sooner than we might expect.

Note that a 1 TB BD disk would easily have room for a 1080p cut in addition to the 4K/SHV feature - so there's a real opportunity for a new high res format to come out on media that's compatible with the old 1080p stuff.

It is sad how much confusion and or ignorance surrounds the whole high resolution issue. But your post was spot on...mahalo!

Meanwhile as someone else said, what this boils down to is an very compressed 720p image at a rather high price. Convenience costs!

xhambonex

Mar 19, 2009, 09:52 PM

Me. Why would I want to buy a BluRay DVD Player, have yet another box, have to handle all the DVD media and store them, have to break the copy protection and rip the DVD if I want to watch on my iPhone... when I can instantly buy a downloaded copy from iTunes to watch everywhere and not have any physical media or DVD player?

well, it all depends on how much you care. Its not very easy for most people to rip blu-rays, maybe not most people on these forums, but just most people in general. The real point is the quality, and for people who have 1080p TVs and projects and more high end setups you do notice the difference and this just doesn't really cut it. Don't mistake the iTunes HD for any physical format HD. But for the record, I don't mind it as much, though I wouldn't ever pay that much for a "iTunes HD" movie. I'd rather go the blu-ray route as of now.

AidenShaw

Mar 19, 2009, 09:53 PM

So where are you going to fit the 600in TV? I guess houses will be 15-16 times bigger by 2015!:p

No - but my 60" will be sharp from 1.5m !!

macfan881

Mar 19, 2009, 09:54 PM

hmmm for 5 bucks more or less i can get up to 1080p Best quailty audio and specail Features plus in most cases a Digital Copy hmm ill pass and stick with blu ray

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 09:54 PM

So where are you going to fit the 600in TV? I guess houses will be 15-16 times bigger by 2015!:p

Why do you need a six hundred inch TV? Fifty is fine.

The thing is, the jump from 1080p to 4320p is still noticeable. Beyond Super Hi-Vision, the human eye cannot discern difference in resolution, so it would be useless to market anything higher to consumers.

We'll have one more push from TV manufacturers to Super Hi-Vision, and they'll tout how much better it is over 1080p, but once we have Super Hi-Vision in place, they'll have to actually work on making the rest of the experience better to keep selling TVs (contrast ratio, color gamut, etc.).

Tilpots

Mar 19, 2009, 10:02 PM

Why do you need a six hundred inch TV? Fifty is fine.

The thing is, the jump from 1080p to 4320p is still noticeable. Beyond Super Hi-Vision, the human eye cannot discern difference in resolution, so it would be useless to market anything higher to consumers.

We'll have one more push from TV manufacturers to Super Hi-Vision, and they'll tout how much better it is over 1080p, but once we have Super Hi-Vision in place, they'll have to actually work on making the rest of the experience better to keep selling TVs (contrast ratio, color gamut, etc.).

I'm not disagreeing that TV displays will get better eventually, it's just not going to happen that fast for consumers. HD was invented in the 60's and it's still not in the majority of homes. There are also diminishing returns for that kind of advancement. Consumers won't be ready for that leap anytime soon.

P-Worm

Mar 19, 2009, 10:16 PM

We'll have one more push from TV manufacturers to Super Hi-Vision, and they'll tout how much better it is over 1080p, but once we have Super Hi-Vision in place, they'll have to actually work on making the rest of the experience better to keep selling TVs (contrast ratio, color gamut, etc.).

I doubt it. Many people can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 50" screen. So you would need one massive screen (better build a room that has a 20 foot ceiling in it) to notice a jump to Super Hi-Vision.

Like I said before, the only significant jump I can see happening in the near future is a move to HDR screens. And when that happens it will be amazing.

P-Worm

NightStorm

Mar 19, 2009, 10:17 PM

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 10:18 PM

Consumers won't be ready for that leap anytime soon.

I think the same goes for the studios.

Once you start giving people image quality in the 4k/8k range you start to match the quality of the masters. I can't imagine the studios being interested in giving that kind of quality to consumers!

Not in the short term anyway.

Tallest Skil

Mar 19, 2009, 10:18 PM

You're still on this super HD kick? :rolleyes:

Not me; the companies who make televisions.

Japan moves to Super Hi-Vision TV broadcasts in 2014.

Tilpots

Mar 19, 2009, 10:27 PM

Not me; the companies who make televisions.

Japan moves to Super Hi-Vision TV broadcasts in 2014.

You say that like everyone in Japan has or will have, one of these sets. I don't even think they've formally made the DTV switch yet.

That SHV signal might be broadcast in 2014... and I bet that one guy who can afford it will be Super-Hi excited!:D

badNameErr

Mar 19, 2009, 10:29 PM

Japan moves to Super Hi-Vision TV broadcasts in 2014.

The only links I can find mention 2025:

http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7776976

shneady

Mar 19, 2009, 10:34 PM

That's all they have available for purchase? I come home from work, excited. Pop up my apple tv, super buzz kill!!! Oh well, I'm sure the selection will expand eventually. Till then, my girl and I have decided to put a stop on BD purchases... To each there own right? This is so much better for us than physical media. I just need to rip those baby's somehow now

rented mule

Mar 19, 2009, 10:36 PM

Let's reiterate:

Poor man's crap quality 720p HD - √
Asstacular lossy sound - √
5 gig HD:SD downloads (which in Canada would bust bandwidth caps after 4 to 12 HD:SD downloads depending on how oppressive and criminal your ISP is) - √
20 DOLLARS for THIS!? (or in Canada, probably, 25) - √

Final grade: FAIL--

I'll stick with BluRay and actually get 1080p, lossless sound, zero hit on my laughable bandwidth (**** you, Robert Depatie, **** you right in the ass), and pay 20 canadian dollars for it all.

Chaos123x

Mar 19, 2009, 10:48 PM

DAMN, I have been waiting for years to watch HD movies on my Cinema HD display.

Too bad I just bought a HDTV yesterday. Buying a PS3 for a Blu-Ray player tonight. Sorry Apple you were a day late and a dollar short.

jmpage2

Mar 19, 2009, 10:55 PM

What do you mean? The movie file? It depends. A direct rip of contents can be anywhere from the full size of a single-layer disk to the full size of a dual-layer disk.

I have a 1080p MPEG-4 ripped copy of The Dark Knight coming in at just under four gigabytes.

"The quality must suck!" :eek: No. It looks magnificent. Just as good as any of my HD DVDs on my HDTV.

I don't know what Apple is doing with their movies, other than the fact that they are TERRIBLE at getting filesizes down.

Apple is using 720p... compressed... and they're nudging the filesize of my 1080p rips that look good like tanj.

Well, all I can say is that you must have a seriously inferior quality HDTV, or you must sit much further away from the recommended seating distance, have the set poorly adjusted, etc.

I have a calibrated Sony 60" SXRD TV and a very good sound system. The picture quality difference between 1080P "HD" download and Blu-Ray is night and day different, and that doesn't even bring up the huge difference in audio quality between low bitrate DD and the newer uncompressed formats available on Blu-Ray discs.

As others have said, you're way off target on Blu-Ray being some passing fad. Uptake is much faster this past year than anticipated and people, amazingly, aren't stupid enough to think that the quality between a 50GB BD disc and a 3GB "HD Lite" 720P download are even close to being the same.

Television quality is constantly increasing and the price of BD players comes down every few months.

I would much rather buy a movie for $25 that I can play on any BD player I will ever own in the highest quality possible than "buy" a DRM laden file that I can only play on certain equipment.

Not to mention that the BD disc has actual resale value, it's a tangible item. What are you going to do if you want to sell off part of your $1000 iTunes movie collection?

maynardgkrebs

Mar 19, 2009, 10:55 PM

I just looked at the rental offerings currently available. They all seem to be SD.

There weren't any HD rentals that I could find.

mattwolfmatt

Mar 19, 2009, 10:57 PM

As an AppleTV owner, my first question is (haven't seen it answered on the 5 pages I've browsed on the comments here)...

When is AppleTV hard drive size going to be upgraded? I would think these HD movies are at least double the size of SD. Apple's argument, even if they haven't said it, against movies to own in HD is the enourmous size they take up. Where's the 2TB AppleTV?

(Yes, I know about the hack, I mean a standard release...)

Slurpy2k8

Mar 19, 2009, 10:59 PM

Ok seriously, how large is the market for 'buying' digital movies? I mean, how many people care about watching a movie more than once or twice? Most people I know who buy movies are the obsessive collector types, who get enjoyment out of owning the physical DVD case, art, etc. The same type of people who for this reason buy CDs, etc. They have that kind of rationalization, and while I dont have it myself, I can at least understand it.

I just don't see why someone would pay $20 to own a digital copy of a movie, that isnt even 1080P. Just seems silly.

JesterJJZ

Mar 19, 2009, 11:09 PM

why would i even want to own them? Watch them once and im through with it...why own....

Do you only listen to songs once too? There are films I've seen 50+ times.

oban14

Mar 19, 2009, 11:10 PM

I doubt it. Many people can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 50" screen. So you would need one massive screen (better build a room that has a 20 foot ceiling in it) to notice a jump to Super Hi-Vision.

Like I said before, the only significant jump I can see happening in the near future is a move to HDR screens. And when that happens it will be amazing.

P-Worm

You won't need anything bigger than a 50" screen. Can you tell the difference between a 1 MP photo and a 4 MP photo? If not, don't worry about it. The difference is super HD will look REAL. Not like a screen, just like looking outdoors.

I'm just amazed at how many people are excited to spend 20 dollars on:

1) a compressed, poor qualtiy "HD" download.
2) with poor audio
3) that they can't sell, share, or loan to people (oh right, 5 people you share your itunes account wtih :rolleyes:)
4) that they have to devote hard drive space and backups to.

I'll take BD disks any day of the week. The only time itunes downloads would appeal to me is if I had the right to re-download them as many times as I wanted/needed... and even then I doubt I could put up with the quality.

Compressed video sucks. I have a 52" 1080p TV and it is very apparent when I'm watching a BD versus some compressed "HD" thanks to Comcast or Apple.

Slurpy2k8

Mar 19, 2009, 11:15 PM

Do you only listen to songs once too? There are films I've seen 50+ times.

Wow. Not this assinine comparison again, between movies and songs.

Yes, because watching a movie which is the exact same thing as listening to a song, which you can do while doing pretty much anything, anywhere.

And if you've actually watched movies 50+ times, you have some serious ****ing issues. There's no point beating around that bush. No offense of course, but thats not by any means normal behavior. You're in the extreme, extreme minority of the population. With all the other things that can be done with ones time and all the movies out there to see, I'm trying imagine someone CHOOSING to sit though a movie they've watched 50 times before, and it blows my mind. When you imply its several movies you've done this with, its even tougher to swallow.

oban14

Mar 19, 2009, 11:17 PM

Wow. Not this assinine comparison again, between movies and songs.

Yes, because watching a movie which is the exact same thing as listening to a song, which you can do while doing pretty much anything, anywhere.

And if you've actually watched movies 50+ times, you have some serious ****ing issues. There's no point beating around that bush. No offense of course, but thats not by any means normal behavior. You're in the extreme, extreme minority of the population.

I disagree. Certain movies are absolutely worth watching that many times, great films like the Godfather or Lawrence of Arabia.

Do you watch the Transformers and the Fast & the Furious or something?

Icaras

Mar 19, 2009, 11:24 PM

And if you've actually watched movies 50+ times, you have some serious ****ing issues.

I think you just stirred a hornet's nest here. I'm a huge movie buff, and theres a couple of movies where I've seen countless times.

Are you also going to say I have serious **** issues as well? Thats a pretty big and bold statement to say to people who just love movies in general.

For some, film can be more of a passion, than just a hobby. Get over yourself.

Icaras

Mar 19, 2009, 11:25 PM

Do you watch the Transformers and the Fast & the Furious or something?

I was wondering the same thing.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 11:31 PM

I disagree. Certain movies are absolutely worth watching that many times, great films like the Godfather or Lawrence of Arabia.

Do you watch the Transformers and the Fast & the Furious or something?

Hey now, I've watched Transformers The Movie multiple times since I was like 5 (24 now) :p

gkarris

Mar 19, 2009, 11:32 PM

I haven't read all the many posts, but just in time!

Refurb Blu-ray players at Sony for $149, and Blu-ray discs on sale at Amazon for $13 - $20 (no tax and free shipping for orders over $20).

Not to mention being able to "hold" the actual media, on top of the 1080p picture quality (if your set can handle it).

They should make these 720p downloads $14.99...

Icaras

Mar 19, 2009, 11:37 PM

Hey now, I've watched Transformers The Movie multiple times since I was like 5 (24 now) :p

Oh well if you're talking about that version, then that's a different story :cool:

beyondonesmeans

Mar 19, 2009, 11:38 PM

Great. Looks like i will now be spending more money on downloads from apple, but I will also need a bigger hard drive :)

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 11:40 PM

Oh well if you're talking about that version, then that's a different story :cool:

Yes, I'm talking about the better version :p
But seriously the live action of the Transformers was really lame (but I do have that version on iTunes as well), I've been a fan of the original series since the beginning (have it all on itunes) and I'm hoping with the sequel they improve the quality of the story line and make it closer to the original.

rtdunham

Mar 19, 2009, 11:41 PM

I'd rather see 5000 SD titles than 50 new HD titles available. I'm a big apple fan, and i like my appleTV very much, but i'm continually disappointed by the sparse offerings for rentals in ANY def.

MasterNile

Mar 19, 2009, 11:44 PM

I'd rather see 5000 SD titles than 50 new HD titles available. I'm a big apple fan, and i like my appleTV very much, but i'm continually disappointed by the sparse offerings for rentals in ANY def.

Is that Apple's fault or the studios' fault though?

embiencechaser

Mar 19, 2009, 11:58 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-announces-release-of-hd-movie-sales-and-rentals-via-itunes/)

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/03/19/170716-hd_movies_500.png

Apple today announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/03/19itunes.html) that they are now offering high-definition movie sales and rentals through the iTunes Store.

A dedicated HD Movies page has been added to the iTunes Store [iTunes (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewCustomPage?name=pageHDMovies)] to highlight the new content. Pre-orders for the James Bond movie "Quantum of Solace" and the thriller "Twilight" are currently being featured, with additional movies already available.

Previously, Apple had only offered high-definition movie rentals through the Apple TV in January 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-appletv-take-2-price-drop/) and added support for high-definition TV shows via iTunes in September 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/09/itunes-8-hd-tv-shows-grid-view-genius-playlists-nbc/).

Article Link: Apple Announces Release of HD Movie Sales and Rentals via iTunes (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/19/apple-announces-release-of-hd-movie-sales-and-rentals-via-itunes/)

I rather purchase HD DVD than buying from iTunes.

KopThat

Mar 20, 2009, 12:00 AM

Interesting that with a 720p movie in cinemascope 1:2.35 you only get 544 lines, which is kinda more like 544p
and with 1080p source in scope you get 817 lines

megfilmworks

Mar 20, 2009, 12:18 AM

That's not the point. See the thing is for 99% of Americans, a 720p HD quality movie is very good. What you get from iTunes that you will never get from disc media is convenience. Imagine you own an Apple TV, iPhone/iPod Touch and a computer (Mac or PC). Once you buy a movie, it's on all your devices. Take a laptop on a plane or iPhone on a plane. Watch it on your 70" TV at home. Watch it on your computer. It's awesome! Not only that, how easy is it to purchase. Just a click and you have it in minutes! Plus you can give it to family, provided that you use one of your 5 DRM authorizations. Lastly, think about how easy it is to play it. Just a click on a menu and you're there. No need to shuffle around with a rack full of DVDs! Can't do any of that with physical media!

Personally I love Blu-Ray but honestly I also have an Apple TV and there isn't that much of a difference. You almost have to view them back to back to notice. The HD on Apple TV is great and will satisfy 99% of the people out there. I definitely prefer Apple TV/iTunes HD any day!

Kan-O-ZI couldn't agree more. I have both and wouldn't trade either. Very little picture difference for the vast majority.
HD Battlestar episodes look much better on the ATV than on Warner Cable HD. And it's not available on Bluray.

Bubba Satori

Mar 20, 2009, 12:25 AM

Theres plenty of people that simply dont want to deal with physical (optical to be precise) media anymore.

I bet there are a lot more people that don't want to wait for hours to download inferior quality, low res HD movies at absurd prices. And be capped by their ISP at how many movies a month they can download.

NightStorm

Mar 20, 2009, 12:28 AM

GreatDrok

Mar 20, 2009, 12:29 AM

Interesting that with a 720p movie in cinemascope 1:2.35 you only get 544 lines, which is kinda more like 544p
and with 1080p source in scope you get 817 lines

This is always true since there is no need to encode the black bars and if you zoom the picture to get your full 720 or 1080p then you are going to lose picture off the side. I would rather have the full picture.

What you're also missing is that the actual resolution, i.e. the size of the pixels, is exactly the same for 1280x720 or 1280x544.

Personally, I'm quite happy that they are going to sell movies in 720p. I would rather rent these days but there are always films you feel you would rather own. I have been through LD, DVD and even bought into HD DVD but haven't bothered with Blu-ray yet because the cost of the players has been too high here in NZ and the choice of discs too limited and overpriced.

I didn't want to go back to buying DVDs, in fact I have had enough enough of buying movies in general since I have so many that I just can't find the time to watch them, so renting makes perfect sense.

Picture quality of the ATV rentals is really pretty good. Even SD isn't terrible. A little softer than a high bit rate DVD but not too bad. 720p rentals are definitely better since they have roughly 3x the resolution of DVD and the colour is crisper.

Is it as good as HD DVD? Nope, but it is much better than DVD so I'm not too disappointed. Will I buy many? Nope, but when they start offering them in NZ I will probably buy a few so it is good to have the choice.

To all those moaning about it not being Blu-ray quality, well it isn't I agree. But it is better than DVD and more convenient than Blu-ray so it has a good shot. What I do know is that I can now rent a movie from iTunes and throw it up on my 100" HD projector and the experience is close to the local digital cinema down the road. Actually, my sound system is better since I have ribbon speakers and valve amplification, plus I get the best seat in the house and it only costs NZ$8 versus NZ$30 for my wife and I to see a movie.

A final note. I have to say that for the level of compression these movies have been through, they really look excellent. They don't suffer obvious posterisation and the fine details and textures are all there. They really are HD. Not 1080p but they are good quality 720p.

MasterNile

Mar 20, 2009, 12:29 AM

I bet there are a lot more people that don't want to wait for hours to download inferior quality, low res HD movies at absurd prices. And be capped by their ISP at how many movies a month they can download.

Well...I'm not capped by my ISP, have more time than money, don't own a single HDTV, but do have a iMac capable of HD but no Blu Ray player, and how many HD downloads from Apple does it take to equal the cost of a Blu Ray Player?

EDIT: either way how is an extra option a bad thing? the market will decide if this succeeds or fails and if it fails I believe Apple will have a talk with the studios and work to get the prices lowered.

Cynicalone

Mar 20, 2009, 12:29 AM

Alright I synced W. over to the Apple TV and played it on my Sony Bravia XBR-4. Picture quality was as expected the same as any HD TV Show I've downloaded from the iTunes store. I'm sure if you have rented an HD movie from the iTunes store in the past you'll know what to expect.

I normally download movies strictly to take with me on my iPod. So paying a few extra dollars to also get a decent (if not great) copy in HD seems worth it to me. Does it match some 1080P BR movies no, but it is certainly better than what we had yesterday imo.

Bubba Satori

Mar 20, 2009, 12:30 AM

JesterJJZ

Mar 20, 2009, 12:33 AM

Wow. Not this assinine comparison again, between movies and songs.

Yes, because watching a movie which is the exact same thing as listening to a song, which you can do while doing pretty much anything, anywhere.

And if you've actually watched movies 50+ times, you have some serious ****ing issues. There's no point beating around that bush. No offense of course, but thats not by any means normal behavior. You're in the extreme, extreme minority of the population. With all the other things that can be done with ones time and all the movies out there to see, I'm trying imagine someone CHOOSING to sit though a movie they've watched 50 times before, and it blows my mind. When you imply its several movies you've done this with, its even tougher to swallow.

I consider it more like studying, but then again I must have issues. :rolleyes:

Bubba Satori

Mar 20, 2009, 12:34 AM

Well...I'm not capped by my ISP, have more time than money, don't own a single HDTV, but do have a iMac capable of HD but no Blu Ray player, and how many HD downloads from Apple does it take to equal the cost of a Blu Ray Player?

Our store brand is $199. Name brands $250-$550. I sell about 20 a week. We have a hard time keeping Blu-ray players in stock. I imagine we average about 100 a week. The HP, Sony and Dell laptops with Blu-Ray are very big sellers since we started demoing the Dark Knight on them.

MasterNile

Mar 20, 2009, 12:36 AM

Our store brand is $199. Name brands $250-$550. I sell about 20 a week. We have a hard time keeping Blu-ray players in stock. I imagine we average about 100 a week. The HP, Sony and Dell laptops with Blu-Ray are very big sellers since we started demoing the Dark Knight on them.

Sorry, I edited my post since you quoted me, but again a Blu Ray player=nothing to me since I don't have a HDTV and OS X or XP don't support external Blu Ray players, so in fact in my house downloading HD content is the best picture quality I can use.

Bubba Satori

Mar 20, 2009, 12:40 AM

Well...I'm not capped by my ISP, have more time than money, don't own a single HDTV, but do have a iMac capable of HD but no Blu Ray player, and how many HD downloads from Apple does it take to equal the cost of a Blu Ray Player?

EDIT: either way how is an extra option a bad thing? the market will decide if this succeeds or fails and if it fails I believe Apple will have a talk with the studios and work to get the prices lowered.

I agree about the the availability of an extra option. I would like an option to get a Blu-ray player on a Mac. :D
Don't get me wrong, I want the Apple HD downloads to succeed. I also want the choice to play the highest quality 1080 HD movies off of an optical disc.

NightStorm

Mar 20, 2009, 12:42 AM

Bubba Satori

Mar 20, 2009, 12:43 AM

Sorry, I edited my post since you quoted me, but again a Blu Ray player=nothing to me since I don't have a HDTV and OS X or XP don't support external Blu Ray players, so in fact in my house downloading HD content is the best picture quality I can use.

Hopefully Apple's HD downloads will be a big hit for customers like you. And I agree. I don't think people should be forced to by Blu-players to watch HD content and the Apple download solution is great for them.

MasterNile

Mar 20, 2009, 12:47 AM

I agree about the the availability of an extra option. I would like an option to get a Blu-ray player on a Mac. :D
Don't get me wrong, I want the Apple HD downloads to succeed. I also want the choice to play the highest quality 1080 HD movies off of an optical disc.

Yeah, if you've got the set up Blu Ray is definitely better, no doubt about that, but this is a step forward for Apple, sure they're playing catch up again because of their refusal to adopt Blu Ray despite being on the Blu Ray Disc Association, but as I said an extra option is never bad. I'm sure Apple could offer 1080p movies and TV shows for the same price, the limit here is the ISPs, and rather than compressing the hell out of 1080p they decided to go with 720p, if I were in the same situation I'd do the same and I think most people would agree.

Cynicalone

Mar 20, 2009, 12:48 AM

Here's something I've noticed... and I think its a big problem... quite a few of the currently available HD movies for purchase do not include a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack. I really would hope Apple would require one at least for the HD file!

I agree that did seem a bit odd to me.

Also when I first synced the file over to the Apple TV I had to reset it, to get it to play the HD Movie. I have never seen that before. I wonder if a software update is not soon to follow. But for now the Movie Shows up just like a TV show with the HD Logo beside it.

Wiggin

Mar 20, 2009, 12:51 AM

I'm guessing it'll only work with HDCP compliant monitors/tvs/gpus, will have to wait and see on that one.

I'm not biting until that is clearly answered.

jmpage2

Mar 20, 2009, 12:52 AM

Here's something I've noticed... and I think its a big problem... quite a few of the currently available HD movies for purchase do not include a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack. I really would hope Apple would require one at least for the HD file!

It just goes further to show you that they don't care about the quality of these "HD" movies.

Remember, "W", which is a lengthy movie, clocked in around 3GB and they call it HD.

While DVD uses the very inefficient MPG-2 codec, it's still worth noting that a DVD with Digital Dolby has double the footprint of these new "HD" movie downloads.

MagnusVonMagnum

Mar 20, 2009, 12:54 AM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

Simple. I don't want a disc format. I just got done transferring all my DVDs to .H264 to watch around the house off multiple Apple TV units. They broadcast off my PowerMac server which has multiple 1.5TB drives. Why in the WORLD would I want to go back to maintaining an army of plastic drink coasters? Besides, my projector is only 720P at the moment so Blu-Ray wouldn't be THAT much of an improvement regardless. As it is, I have no desire to replace all my DVDs all over again anyway so I will probably buy a few select movies for now and then only consider new movies I'd watch more than once. Otherwise, why buy any at all? I watch most movies ONE time.

Good luck storing and backing them up. It's time for Apple to adopt the Amazon VOD model of letting you re-download purchased content.

There are some pretty large hard drives available now. I just got two 1.5TB drives for $130 each. I've got OS9, Tiger, Leopard and over 350 DVDs, 400+ CDs and 200 music videos on it and still have well over 700GB free. I think I can fit a few HD movies without an issue....

On the other hand, I still don't see a RENT option for HD movies outside of Apple TV. Why would you be able to buy them in HD for your Mac and not rent them? It doesn't make much sense.

Michael CM1

Mar 20, 2009, 12:57 AM

I bet there are a lot more people that don't want to wait for hours to download inferior quality, low res HD movies at absurd prices. And be capped by their ISP at how many movies a month they can download.

I had almost forgotten about that issue. Wait until some apartment complex of HD movie lovers brings down the town because they're downloading every James Bond movie.

MasterNile

Mar 20, 2009, 12:58 AM

While DVD uses the very inefficient MPG-2 codec, it's still worth noting that a DVD with Digital Dolby has double the footprint of these new "HD" movie downloads.

...so these "HD" movie downloads are made to be more download friendly since that's how they're supposed to be acquired, THAT'S DESPICABLE! Those bastards, how dare they take ISP limitations into account.

Padriac

Mar 20, 2009, 01:28 AM

This is so lame!

Nobody is going to download an MP3 when CDs offer such better quality! I can get CDs cheaper at Wal-Mart too! Music downloads are dead in the water!

Oh wait...

soLoredd

Mar 20, 2009, 02:10 AM

Here's something I've noticed... and I think its a big problem... quite a few of the currently available HD movies for purchase do not include a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack. I really would hope Apple would require one at least for the HD file!

I'd rather get 5.1 DD than HD. Myself, I'm perfectly fine with DVD and 5.1 DD. I had the HD add on for the 360 and while I enjoyed it at the time and though I'd never go back to DVD, I found myself doing just that.

I'm with a few of the other posters - I rather Apple get the movie library stocked better and work on the rental agreement stuff than push HD.

hd1080ts

Mar 20, 2009, 02:41 AM

Most deffinatly 720.

Which of course, is still HD.

Only just HD, on a large screen or projector you need 1920x1080.

An what about the sound?

Bluray with high bitrate 1920x1080 AVC and lossless audio wins by a mile.

barefootman

Mar 20, 2009, 02:46 AM

That just really pisses me off. :mad:

Evangelion

Mar 20, 2009, 03:30 AM

that's practically the price of a bluray...

... Why would you pay for a hi-def download when you could get a better quality DVD?

Um.... DVD is 720 × 576, this is 1280x720. How exactly is DVD "better quality"?

iMaggot

Mar 20, 2009, 03:58 AM

Very cool, to bad i don't have the bandwidth for HD movies.

Master Chief

Mar 20, 2009, 04:20 AM

That just really pisses me off. :mad:
It might take some time, but at least you have a movies section in the Australian iTunes store, unlike many European countries.

I won't download movies myself from the iTunes store, because I rather buy Blu-ray media, which I can share/trade/sell or give away when I like. Also, no hard disc or other computer hardware failure will ever block me from watching, especially since I can drop it in the PS3 (but at the cost of 180 watts) and I can convert any movie to iPod/iPhone format.

Of course it is all about choice, and I see a huge potential, but there are too many things I don't like; movie -> (mini) displayport -> non-certified HDCP monitor / TV being just one of them.

KALLT

Mar 20, 2009, 04:39 AM

That just really pisses me off. :mad:

The Dutch store doesn't have any movies at all, except three Pixar shorts (wow...). It's great that Americans now get better quality, but it's really annoying to read about new features that I won't get (in the near) future.

mtrctyjoe

Mar 20, 2009, 05:15 AM

I can't think of a movie I would pay $20 for..... and I rarely find the movie I am looking for on iTunes to rent, but I always do at Blockbuster. Apple needs to offer everything Blockbuster and Netflix have for rent before it will ever have a chance at being serious about movies.

Grasbak

Mar 20, 2009, 05:24 AM

Shivetya

Mar 20, 2009, 06:32 AM

You mean "...a better quality BluRay disc".

Apple is hoping because you want it NOW and would rather not make a trip to the store or wait for amazon.com to send you the disc in the mail.

I'm sure the other reason for selling 720 is so they can later re-sell the same movie to you in 1080.

but thats the problem, from the way it reads it would have already been in the stores or available via net flix before you can get it through apple.

Schizoid

Mar 20, 2009, 06:36 AM

Time to throw away all my 1080p MKV movies and buy an Apple TV and spend 15 bucks on every movie! woohooo!

NightFox

Mar 20, 2009, 06:42 AM

In response to all those saying "Bluray is Dead":

Do you think the industry will let this happen? For a new format to take over, it has to have the support of the movie industry and the hardware manufacturers. When they both finally committed to BR, they will have based their decisions on a predicted life of BR as a viable product - DVD probably had 10 years before BR take-up started to match what DVD sales had been 10 years earlier.

Just because an improved technology comes along, the industry isn't going to drop BR and adopt it for 2 reasons: 1) Amortising its existing commitment to BR and 2) If it drops BR now, no consumer is going to commit to a new format for fear of the industry dropping it within 12 months when another technology comes along, like it would have done with BR.

So, market forces stifle technological advance, but at least it gives us the benefits of consistent, established technology and competition.

All IMHO, of course. :cool:

Tallest Skil

Mar 20, 2009, 06:48 AM

Well, all I can say is that you must have a seriously inferior quality HDTV, or you must sit much further away from the recommended seating distance, have the set poorly adjusted, etc.

That's exactly what I'm NOT saying. I said that I managed to make a 1080 rip the same size as Apple's 720 rips without losing quality from direct-from-disk playback.

It looks better than what Apple offers, is what I'm saying.

As others have said, you're way off target on Blu-Ray being some passing fad.

When did I say it was a fad? If anything, I have consistently acknowledged the fact that Blu-ray will be around for YEARS more, until at least 2020, until downloads catch up, at which time Blu-ray will move to higher resolution content.

Marvin1379

Mar 20, 2009, 07:18 AM

Actually to play the movie on someone else's computer they have to be authorized on your iTunes account, and you can only have 5 people authorized to one account, with Blu Ray you can rip it and copy the file however much you want, so you've got it completely backwards.

You can't "give" the file to anyone... it's DRM protected and only works on Macs authorized with your iTunes account. Not awesome at all.

Yes they have to be authorized on your account, but at least this option is legal. Ripping a blueray disc isn't, as I'm sure you know.

NightStorm

Mar 20, 2009, 07:23 AM

I hope everyone realizes these encodes are done by the studios using much higher quality sources than what we have available to us. It's not like they are taking a Bluray disc and running it through Handbrake before sending the file to Apple. They are likely sourcing it from the exact same master as the Bluray. The reduced resolution, and the quality of the source, mean they can significantly lower the bitrate without impact quality nearly as much as when you do it yourself.

This is why myself and the majority of other Handbrake devs/mods recommend using lower CQ values when encoding a HD source versus a DVD -- the source is of higher quality (Bluray > DVD).

Personally, I think I'll use this option for a vast majority of the movies I buy from now on. It fits with how I use my media in my setup, and saves me a lot of time when compared to ripping/encoding/tagging myself. There will always be some movies I'll want to have in the highest possible quality (LOTR trilogy for example), but these HD downloads should be fine. There is nothing inherently wrong with 720p; it is the same resolution we currently get from most of the studios and service providers.

Chupa Chupa

Mar 20, 2009, 07:25 AM

Seems to me everyone would agree on the following:

1. Blu-ray is better quality than the Apple downloads.
2. Getting blu-ray quality downloads is not feesable given current download rates etc. And this isnt going to change any time soon.

So, people have a choice (where availabe!).

Apparently there are misinformed people who are not impressed by Blu-Ray b/c they think their upscaled DVD or Apple "HD" video is just as good. And the truth of the matter if you watch on a small screen (46" and under) and with an average audio setup (even if it is 5.1) Blu-Ray really is overkill. It's when you get to the bigger TVs, and especially Home Theaters with 92"+ projector screens and high-end audio systems that Blu-Ray's qualities sparkle.

I think you are correct that BD quality d/ls are not in the near future. The average BD movie is 15GB. That is a lot of bandwidth. Optical disks are not obsolete just yet.

randy98mtu

Mar 20, 2009, 07:39 AM

Simple. I don't want a disc format. I just got done transferring all my DVDs to .H264 to watch around the house off multiple Apple TV units. They broadcast off my PowerMac server which has multiple 1.5TB drives. Why in the WORLD would I want to go back to maintaining an army of plastic drink coasters? Besides, my projector is only 720P at the moment so Blu-Ray wouldn't be THAT much of an improvement regardless. As it is, I have no desire to replace all my DVDs all over again anyway so I will probably buy a few select movies for now and then only consider new movies I'd watch more than once. Otherwise, why buy any at all? I watch most movies ONE time.

Well said. I'm in the process of converting my DVD's and I'm even skipping some as I don't see myself ever watching them again! The Bluray rental doesn't work for me as my wife usually wants to go watch the rentals in bed and I don't have another Bluray player in the bedroom, but it's very easy to unplug 3 cables (my stereo doesn't have HDMI), take the Apple TV upstairs and plug in 2 cables and I'm done! I'll still buy my absolute favorite movies on Blu Ray, but otherwise I'm done with optical media as well.

raybo

Mar 20, 2009, 07:41 AM

Question from one who is severely uninformed:

I assume that 1280x720 shows natively with small black bars on a 1280x800 macbook.

What does it look like on a 1440x900 or 1680x1050 screen? Will it look just as good or better on the 1280x800 resolution screen?

Ray

Tallest Skil

Mar 20, 2009, 07:41 AM

Yes they have to be authorized on your account, but at least this option is legal. Ripping a blueray disc isn't, as I'm sure you know.

The ripping itself isn't; having the rip is.

it's confusing, but there are ways to have a rip legally.

Saladinos

Mar 20, 2009, 08:14 AM