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BoyBach
Mar 21, 2009, 07:54 AM
Blair urges world leaders to 'do God'

LONDON (AFP) — Former premier Tony Blair, who was famously silent on his religious faith when in office, said Thursday he is now more open to speak and urged world leaders to "do God."

Writing in a British weekly magazine, he said that during his time in Downing Street he gradually came to realise that "failure to understand the power of religion meant failure to understand the modern world."

"My faith has always been an important part of my politics," he wrote in the New Statesman, guest-edited by his former spokesman Alastair Campbell -- who infamously said "We don't do God" in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"While in office, it was best, in my view, not to shout that too loudly from the rooftops, lest it be thought that I was trying to claim some kind of moral superiority for myself or my party.

"On the rare occasions when I did talk about religion, it tended to be misrepresented to suit the political purposes of others. That was the reason why 'we did not do God'," he said.

But Blair, who has set up a foundation to promote inter-faith dialogue since leaving office in June 2007, said the world had changed.

"Religious faith and how it develops could be of the same significance to the 21st century as political ideology was to the 20th.

"It could help guide and sustain the era of globalisation, lending it values, and, in bringing faiths and cultures to a greater understanding of each other, could foster peaceful coexistence.

"Or it could be a reactionary force, pulling people apart just as globalisation pushes people together.

"Whichever route develops, it does mean that all leaders, whether of religious faith themselves or not, have to 'do God'."

Blair, who left the Church of England to become a Roman Catholic after quitting power, has previously said that he avoided talking about his faith in office because people might think he was a "nutter."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hKRanAiXchKJJRKPSKzKionpwtng

http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2009/03/world-million-faith-god


I'll forgo my utter contempt for the odious man and repugnance at his stating of "peaceful coexistence", to say that it's the basis of an interesting debate.

Should politicians "do God"? Which "God" should politicians "do"? Can, will, or should religion replace political ideology in the 21st century?

leekohler
Mar 21, 2009, 08:08 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hKRanAiXchKJJRKPSKzKionpwtng

http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2009/03/world-million-faith-god


I'll forgo my utter contempt for the odious man and repugnance at his stating of "peaceful coexistence", to say that it's the basis of an interesting debate.

Should politicians "do God"? Which "God" should politicians "do"? Can, will, or should religion replace political ideology in the 21st century?

What a ********** a**hole. Looks like you guys indeed had your W.

skunk
Mar 21, 2009, 09:06 AM
There is ZERO possibility that emphasising adherence to one or other of the competing monotheistic religions will bring the world closer to a state of harmony, unless it results in the total annihilation of the species.

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 09:14 AM
Ah, Tony Blair. What a complete disappointment for so many reasons. Managed to give the Tories a wakeup call about the modern world, though.

I hear he's still popular in the US. You're welcome to him.

Counterfit
Mar 21, 2009, 09:28 AM
I hear he's still popular in the US. You're welcome to him.

Thanks, but no. ;)

drewsof07
Mar 21, 2009, 09:38 AM
Should politicians "do God"? Which "God" should politicians "do"? Can, will, or should religion replace political ideology in the 21st century?

I don't think he was specifying which religion/deity leaders should "do" but rather just the idea of having some sense of spirituality to "comfort/guide" them.

And when you consider the source, (correct me if I'm wrong) but aren't most leaders in the UK "blessed" by the church before assuming their duties? Not out of requirement, but tradition. So not the best environment to create leaders who are entirely separate from their religious roots.

Rt&Dzine
Mar 21, 2009, 09:43 AM
If this forum is any indication, I'd be afraid to be Catholic in the UK.

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 09:46 AM
If this forum is any indication, I'd be afraid to be Catholic in the UK.

Why? Most people here don't care one whit about your religion... unless you keep on talking about it with them. To be seen as overly religious as a political figure is a death-knell for broad national support.

bartelby
Mar 21, 2009, 09:47 AM
Why? Most people here don't care one whit about your religion... unless you keep on talking about it with them.

Which is the way is should be...

toontra
Mar 21, 2009, 09:55 AM
When asked directly if he and Bush prayed together when meeting to decide whether to invade Iraq he snorted in derision saying "Of course not". Turns out that is exactly what they did, praying for divine guidance. Says it all really - lying about the use of religion to justify an illegal war.

The only saving grace is that, if he is right about there being a God, he will undoubtedly rot in hell.

skunk
Mar 21, 2009, 09:59 AM
If this forum is any indication, I'd be afraid to be Catholic in the UK.We spit upon Protestants and Catholics equally.

Queso
Mar 21, 2009, 10:04 AM
Par for the course. I detest that man.
If this forum is any indication, I'd be afraid to be Catholic in the UK.
Nothing to do with being Catholic, unless of course being Catholic means being a condescending hypocrite like Blair.

Cromulent
Mar 21, 2009, 10:10 AM
And when you consider the source, (correct me if I'm wrong) but aren't most leaders in the UK "blessed" by the church before assuming their duties? Not out of requirement, but tradition. So not the best environment to create leaders who are entirely separate from their religious roots.

The church is linked with the British government because it is the official state religion. Ironically though we are less religious at a political level than the US which is meant to be a secular country.

I would be very surprised if any politician tried to play the God card in a British election but it is par for the course in America.

Also tradition is a form of requirement, most of the UK's constitution is based on tradition as we don't have an official written one like the US.

Rt&Dzine
Mar 21, 2009, 10:15 AM
We spit upon Protestants and Catholics equally.

LOL. It's just an observation. I'm not religious myself.

arkitect
Mar 21, 2009, 10:21 AM
So not the best environment to create leaders who are entirely separate from their religious roots.

At least some try…
Link. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/dec/20/uk.liberaldemocrats)

But then again we also have (had) "Opus Dei" Kelly.

drewsof07
Mar 21, 2009, 10:59 AM
At least some try…
Link. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/dec/20/uk.liberaldemocrats)

But then again we also have (had) "Opus Dei" Kelly.

But I'm not sure spirituality or lack of has much to do with effectiveness of leadership on the grand scale. If anything, having a belief system would place them with the majority according to this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html) anyway. I don't mean or imply they should publicly identify with a certain religion or belief system and say everyone else is wrong, but a general belief in a higher power.

arkitect
Mar 21, 2009, 11:11 AM
If anything, having a belief system would place them with the majority according to this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html) anyway.

I am quite sure that is true for the US… to which your article refers.
I was refering to the UK. ;)
Where you find this:
2008
1000 people were polled both in the UK and the USA and asked "Do you believe there is a God?".
Less than 40% in the UK said yes, compared with 80% in the USA.
Link. (http://www.vexen.co.uk/UK/religion.html#28)
For what it's worth.

drewsof07
Mar 21, 2009, 11:23 AM
I am quite sure that is true for the US… to which your article refers.
I was refering to the UK. ;)
Where you find this:

Link. (http://www.vexen.co.uk/UK/religion.html#28)
For what it's worth.
And God shone his wrath on the UK, it was noted in the documentary "28 Days Later" :p hahaha

But only 1,000 participants? I would be wary to accept those results as a good representation. The one I linked was 36,000 adults in the US. 1,000 people could be assembled from the science department of a University...

Also, right below that number you quoted, "2003: 1001 Adults polled, 60% believed in God." This also makes me question the validity of these numbers, to have such drastic change over the course of just 3 years when it dropped to 35%.

arkitect
Mar 21, 2009, 11:29 AM
Oh, god.
:rolleyes:
Make of that link what you will.

But: If you are trying to claim that the UK is a religious nation on a par with the levels in the USA… then you are mistaken.
Religious belief in the UK is nowhere near at the levels of the US.

Politicians who drag religion into their speeches and policy are derided.

Do I have a link for that? No I don't.
You have to live here to realise that. ;)

Here's the perspective of a Yank living in the UK. Link (http://gulfstreamblues.cafebabel.com/en/post/2007/12/07/Godless-Europe).

iObama
Mar 21, 2009, 01:48 PM
We spit upon Protestants and Catholics equally.

People like you cause as much hate in the world as you claim religion does. Atheists always claim that Christians are arrogant for thinking that Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven, but attack anyone else for disagreeing with you. Funny how that works.

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 01:51 PM
People like you cause as much hate in the world as you claim religion does.

Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

Cromulent
Mar 21, 2009, 01:52 PM
People like you cause as much hate in the world as you claim religion does. Atheists always claim that Christians are arrogant for thinking that Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven, but attack anyone else for disagreeing with you. Funny how that works.

Not sure why you are getting uppity over an obvious joke but I'll bite anyway.

Christians are arrogant for thinking Jesus is the only way to get into heaven. What about Buddha? What about the Hindi Gods?

If there truly is one God I think he would be open minded enough to let people from all religions into heaven, not just Christians. That is why I think Christians are arrogant.

Edit: Bah, beaten by BV :).

jonbravo77
Mar 21, 2009, 01:56 PM
Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

I will completely agree. I don't get British humor. Not all, but most of it.. Not a huge Monty Python fan.. Sorry, I know this will get me flamed... :p But it certainly doesn't mean that others don't find it funny, my wife loves Monty Python and does not understand why I don't... oh well, compromise in a marriage

.Andy
Mar 21, 2009, 03:31 PM
Not a huge Monty Python fan..
This is the closest I've ever been to using my ignore list ;):)!

Rt&Dzine
Mar 21, 2009, 04:37 PM
Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

I literally laughed out loud at skunk's comment. You and skunk often crack me up. Maybe because I was raised by an Anglophile.

yojitani
Mar 21, 2009, 05:56 PM
Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

I can't begin tell you how much trouble my sense of humour has gotten me into in the US (other places too), but yes, this is a HUGE difference in the way people communicate on either side of the Pond. It works both ways too. I've misinterpreted serious communication as jocularity on many occasions.

We all knew Blair was a Bible thumper, it's not just for his preachy oration style did The Private Eye write the St. Albion Parish News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Albion_Parish_News). Shame I can't find the Harry Enfield TV adaptation.

JLatte
Mar 21, 2009, 06:10 PM
Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

:rolleyes: Love how you clump all Americans together. I've seen plenty of stiff people in London.

*edit*
For that matter, the UK had the most uptight people I've been to out of all the countries in Europe I've been.

.Andy
Mar 21, 2009, 06:11 PM
:rolleyes: Love how you clump all Americans together. I've seen plenty of stiff people in London.
What you do in your own time is your own business JLatte.

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 06:13 PM
:rolleyes: Love how you clump all Americans together. I've seen plenty of stiff people in London.


Another reason for Americans not to move to the UK: thin-skinned reactions to casual jokey comments on an internet forum and the inevitable outrage that follows.

Chillax dude. :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not even British. :D

yojitani
Mar 21, 2009, 06:15 PM
:rolleyes: Love how you clump all Americans together. I've seen plenty of stiff people in London.

*edit*
For that matter, the UK had the most uptight people I've been to out of all the countries in Europe I've been.

Are you offering a cup of irony?

JLatte
Mar 21, 2009, 06:20 PM
Another reason for Americans not to move to the UK: thin-skinned reactions to casual jokey comments on an internet forum and the inevitable outrage that follows.

Chillax dude. :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not even British. :D

No, you know what it's only because half of the damn time all I see are you UK people constantly ragging on Americans. Sure, we had Bush, sure a lot of the certain regions in the US are a bunch of rednecks, and sure you can definitely spot an American (usually) in a foreign country from the clueless lost look on their face, their gigantic backpacks, and their fanny waistpacks. Doesn't mean that all of us are like that though.

FYI, I am far from thin skinned. I'm just sick of this whole attitude of 'stupid American' bashing. And no, I'm not some yankee American flag waving gun toting nut case that's so proud of my country and thinks that we are some superior superpower.

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 06:24 PM
No, you know what it's only because half of the damn time all I see are you UK people constantly ragging on Americans.

Lighten up. You're taking things way too seriously.

jonbravo77
Mar 21, 2009, 06:29 PM
No, you know what it's only because half of the damn time all I see are you UK people constantly ragging on Americans. Sure, we had Bush, sure a lot of the certain regions in the US are a bunch of rednecks, and sure you can definitely spot an American (usually) in a foreign country from the clueless lost look on their face, their gigantic backpacks, and their fanny waistpacks. Doesn't mean that all of us are like that though.

FYI, I am far from thin skinned. I'm just sick of this whole attitude of 'stupid American' bashing. And no, I'm not some yankee American flag waving gun toting nut case that's so proud of my country and thinks that we are some superior superpower.

That's pretty cool how you did that in one post. You managed to insult about half of the American people in your first paragraph and then turn around and insulted the other half in your next paragraph. Pretty impressive... And you are bashing on the UK people making comments about us Americans, they don't have to, people like you do it for them... :eek:

JLatte
Mar 21, 2009, 06:30 PM
Lighten up. You're taking things way too seriously.

I guess I'm not throwing in enough smileys. I'm not angry about it what I wrote up there, it's just merely an observation and something that bugs me for a long time. :D:p;):cool:

Blue Velvet
Mar 21, 2009, 06:34 PM
I guess I'm not throwing in enough smileys. I'm not angry about it what I wrote up there, it's just merely an observation and something that bugs me for a long time. :D:p;):cool:


Why does it bug you? Do you worry about what people in the UK think about the US? Besides... the Brits get enough hassle for bad teeth, crap food and constantly complaining. ;)

I like the UK. That's why I crossed the world to live here. :)

JLatte
Mar 21, 2009, 06:37 PM
That's pretty cool how you did that in one post. You managed to insult about half of the American people in your first paragraph and then turn around and insulted the other half in your next paragraph. Pretty impressive... And you are bashing on the UK people making comments about us Americans, they don't have to, people like you do it for them... :eek:

Thank you for that.


Why does it bug you? Do you worry about what people in the UK think about the US? Besides... the Brits get enough hassle for bad teeth, crap food and constantly complaining. ;)

I like the UK. That's why I crossed the world to live here. :)

It's not that I care what the UK thinks or anywhere else for that matter. It's the broad generalizations that annoy me. You guys do broad generalizations, and everyone just smiles and agrees. I do a broad generalization and it's "people like me" that make Americans look bad. :rolleyes:

And by the way, your food wouldn't suck if they didn't cook everything in lard. :D

Cromulent
Mar 22, 2009, 01:51 AM
And by the way, your food wouldn't suck if they didn't cook everything in lard. :D

Real men eat lard :).

and their fanny waistpacks.

Err, is that a bum bag?

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 09:48 AM
People like you cause as much hate in the world as you claim religion does. Atheists always claim that Christians are arrogant for thinking that Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven, but attack anyone else for disagreeing with you. Funny how that works.

When it's the truth, what's to claim?

Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

To be fair- we do have different styles of communication. Different words and phrases can mean different things in either country. For example, I'll never forget skunk's amazement over our discussion of "bumf*** Egypt". To us, it means "screwing a vagrant in a hick town, for lack of anything better to do". To you guys, it's a homophobic slur and a slam on Egypt- something that honestly never occurred to me until we talked about it here. That phrase seems to be a lot more offensive to you guys than us.

I can't begin tell you how much trouble my sense of humour has gotten me into in the US (other places too), but yes, this is a HUGE difference in the way people communicate on either side of the Pond. It works both ways too. I've misinterpreted serious communication as jocularity on many occasions.


I'm curious- do you have any specific examples you can share?

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 10:02 AM
To be fair- we do have different styles of communication. Different words and phrases can mean different things in either country. For example, I'll never forget skunk's amazement over our discussion of "bumf*** Egypt". To us, it means "screwing a vagrant in a hick town". To you guys, it's a homophobic slur and a slam on Egypt- something that honestly never occurred to me until we talked about it here. That phrase seems to be a lot more offensive to you guys than us.There are quite a few words and phrases in common use which when parsed give pause for thought: "retard", "pull your finger out", and "sucks" (with or without the "balls"), to name but a few.

Blue Velvet
Mar 22, 2009, 10:06 AM
To be fair- we do have different styles of communication.

Generally speaking, I think we're more adaptable. We've taken to American shows, films and books of all kinds over many decades and enjoy them and understand them. We usually do not remake them for local tastes. ;)

(using the word 'we' loosely here)

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 10:07 AM
There are quite a few words and phrases in common use which when parsed give pause for thought: "retard", "pull your finger out", and "sucks" (with or without the "balls"), to name but a few.

True enough.

drewsof07
Mar 22, 2009, 10:11 AM
When it's the truth, what's to claim?


So having an [atheist] attitude that religion is inferior isn't arrogant?

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 10:16 AM
So having an [atheist] attitude that religion is inferior isn't arrogant?Not inferior so much as irrational, unnecessary and divisive. If you must have a religion, at least go for a polytheistic one which does not insist on the primacy of your god over others.

Blue Velvet
Mar 22, 2009, 10:16 AM
So having an [atheist] attitude that religion is inferior isn't arrogant?


It has nothing to do with arrogance. Religion makes claims about the world, the universe and the way reality works without any evidence except personal testimony and usually patriarchal authority. That is arrogance.

The atheist is sceptical of that, and quite rightly so, because, for instance, if we all deeply believed that women were created from a rib, then we probably wouldn't have medical science as we understand it.

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 10:18 AM
So having an [atheist] attitude that religion is inferior isn't arrogant?

That's not what I said, and you know it. I said nothing about religion being inferior.

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 10:18 AM
The atheist is sceptical of that, and quite rightly so, because, for instance, if we all deeply believed that women were created from a rib, then we probably wouldn't have medical science as we understand it.Any other belief would be deeply Hippocratical.

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 10:20 AM
Any other belief would be deeply Hippocratical.

Stop it. The MR Pun Police are standing by. :)

jonbravo77
Mar 22, 2009, 10:22 AM
For example, I'll never forget skunk's amazement over our discussion of "bumf*** Egypt". To us, it means "screwing a vagrant in a hick town, for lack of anything better to do". To you guys, it's a homophobic slur and a slam on Egypt- something that honestly never occurred to me until we talked about it here. That phrase seems to be a lot more offensive to you guys than us.


Serious? I guess myself and everyone I have ever come into contact with thought that bumf*** Egypt meant "way the hell out there" direction wise ie: "Cindy lives in bumf*** Egypt, it's going to take forever to get to her.."

Not meaning to drive things off course but, that's interesting all be it really nasty definition of that phrase...

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 10:22 AM
Stop it. The MR Pun Police are standing by. :)They don't scare me. Their truncheons are tiny.

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 10:27 AM
They don't scare me. Their truncheons are tiny.

Hmm...I guess they'll need to get bigger ones then. :)

Serious? I guess myself and everyone I have ever come into contact with thought that bumf*** Egypt meant "way the hell out there" direction wise ie: "Cindy lives in bumf*** Egypt, it's going to take forever to get to her.."

Not meaning to drive things off course but, that's interesting all be it really nasty definition of that phrase...

Yep- crazy how words can have completely different meanings.

drewsof07
Mar 22, 2009, 10:35 AM
It has nothing to do with arrogance. Religion makes claims about the world, the universe and the way reality works without any evidence except personal testimony and usually patriarchal authority. That is arrogance.

The atheist is sceptical of that, and quite rightly so, because, for instance, if we all deeply believed that women were created from a rib, then we probably wouldn't have medical science as we understand it.

And that is my experience with most atheists I meet. They are so busy convincing me things written in the bible are not physically possible they miss the point of the biblical parable. The stories aren't meant to be taken at face value and so literal, they were written with intent of personal interpretation. Even if there IS nothing divine, biblical principles are all around you in the form of laws and social expectations "Thou shalt not steal, kill, etc." and I think even non-believers can learn something about life from the Bible without being religious at all.

*ducks & covers head*

Rt&Dzine
Mar 22, 2009, 10:38 AM
Serious? I guess myself and everyone I have ever come into contact with thought that bumf*** Egypt meant "way the hell out there" direction wise ie: "Cindy lives in bumf*** Egypt, it's going to take forever to get to her.."

Not meaning to drive things off course but, that's interesting all be it really nasty definition of that phrase...

Sorry, more off course ... but the origin of the phrase is from the US military meaning the middle of nowhere.

Australian equivalent is Woop Woop. I like that.

Blue Velvet
Mar 22, 2009, 10:48 AM
And that is my experience with most atheists I meet. They are so busy convincing me things written in the bible are not physically possible they miss the point of the biblical parable. The stories aren't meant to be taken at face value and so literal, they were written with intent of personal interpretation.


I have no problem with parables. But this is not what many adherents claim, especially those who are trying to push religious viewpoints into the spheres of government, law and science like wanting to teach creationism in science classes, for instance...

And after all, even falling back on parables calls then for some distinction between edicts, the very word of god themselves, and passages that call for interpretation. Which are we to believe?

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 10:48 AM
And that is my experience with most atheists I meet. They are so busy convincing me things written in the bible are not physically possible they miss the point of the biblical parable. The stories aren't meant to be taken at face value and so literal, they were written with intent of personal interpretation. Even if there IS nothing divine, biblical principles are all around you in the form of laws and social expectations "Thou shalt not steal, kill, etc." and I think even non-believers can learn something about life from the Bible without being religious at all.I have never had any problem acknowledging that the bible is a great anthology of literature containing many philosophical truths.

drewsof07
Mar 22, 2009, 11:05 AM
I have no problem with parables. But this is not what many adherents claim, especially those who are trying to push religious viewpoints into the spheres of government, law and science like wanting to teach creationism in science classes, for instance...


That is where I have trouble. I don't push my beliefs on others, as I resent having the same done to me. BUT,
How can a leader be truly effective if he/she doesn't fully understand and respect the viewpoints of anyone with religious beliefs while at the same time showing equal respect for those with secular beliefs?

Poor example: It's kind of like saying a restaurant won't serve peanuts because some people are allergic or just don't like them.

Blue Velvet
Mar 22, 2009, 11:11 AM
That is where I have trouble.
How can a leader be truly effective if he/she doesn't fully understand and respect the viewpoints of anyone with religious beliefs while at the same time showing equal respect for those with secular beliefs?


Some of those viewpoints are irreconcilable within the greater law of the land. Why should religious beliefs be shown equal respect? Their claims are not testable.

For instance, when drawing up and enacting public health policy, should not the evidence from physicians, scientists, researchers and clinicians have greater weight then those who claim that diseases can be cured by casting out demons?

Rt&Dzine
Mar 22, 2009, 11:37 AM
That is where I have trouble. I don't push my beliefs on others, as I resent having the same done to me. BUT,
How can a leader be truly effective if he/she doesn't fully understand and respect the viewpoints of anyone with religious beliefs while at the same time showing equal respect for those with secular beliefs?

Being religious does not mean that you will understand and respect the viewpoints of other religious beliefs. Often, quite the opposite.

Eraserhead
Mar 22, 2009, 11:43 AM
But only 1,000 participants? I would be wary to accept those results as a good representation. The one I linked was 36,000 adults in the US. 1,000 people could be assembled from the science department of a University...

Also, right below that number you quoted, "2003: 1001 Adults polled, 60% believed in God." This also makes me question the validity of these numbers, to have such drastic change over the course of just 3 years when it dropped to 35%.

Assuming the people were selected randomly 1000 people is totally fine. That's the usual number surveyed in political polls which have an accuracy to within 5%, 95% of the time.

drewsof07
Mar 22, 2009, 11:43 AM
Being religious does not mean that you will understand and respect the viewpoints of other religious beliefs. Often, quite the opposite.

I agree, most religious people are ignorant of one another. Part of the reason Christians have sought to kill anyone who opposed them for ~2000+ years. This isn't the fault of religion, but man's greed and desire for power/dominance.

And I have to say, I think it would be highly unfair (borderline discrimination) to degrade public officials simply because they have personal beliefs, and assume they couldn't approach issues objectively. There would be no more influence than with political lobbyists.

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 11:48 AM
I agree, most religious people are ignorant of one another. Part of the reason Christians have sought to kill anyone who opposed them for ~2000+ years.
You have to realize, this isn't the nature nor design of religion, but of man. Look at the way "we" in the US typically view persons of Islamic faith: Radical "kill all infidels" and this isn't the focus of Islam at all.

The problem is that so many religious people use religion to justify inhuman acts or deny others their rights.

skunk
Mar 22, 2009, 11:53 AM
How can people of one monotheistic faith demand respect for people of other faiths? Is it a plea for understanding on behalf of all gobbledegook, even that which contradicts their own, or is it a disingenuous way of claiming privileges for their own brand under cover of a specious inclusivity?

Lord Blackadder
Mar 22, 2009, 12:02 PM
There is ZERO possibility that emphasising adherence to one or other of the competing monotheistic religions will bring the world closer to a state of harmony, unless it results in the total annihilation of the species.

As long as various mainstream religions fail to come together, their followers can hardly be expected to do so.

Ah, Tony Blair. What a complete disappointment for so many reasons. Managed to give the Tories a wakeup call about the modern world, though.

I hear he's still popular in the US. You're welcome to him.

It's all relative - remember who we had at the helm then (:mad:). Blair is so much more articulate than Dubya that it's impossible not to see him as preferable. It was only after reading about Blair in the context of UK politics that I lost respect for him. A shame, since he seems to have had a lot of potential.

Another reason for Americans to avoid moving to the UK: not understanding their sense of humour in the absolute slightest.

People would adapt to it quickly; I think the understated humor of the UK translates less well over text.

Cromulent
Mar 22, 2009, 02:04 PM
Serious? I guess myself and everyone I have ever come into contact with thought that bumf*** Egypt meant "way the hell out there" direction wise ie: "Cindy lives in bumf*** Egypt, it's going to take forever to get to her.."

Not meaning to drive things off course but, that's interesting all be it really nasty definition of that phrase...

Well bum means arse over here so I'm sure you can work out what that translates into in the UK.

It is the same as why you wouldn't have people in the UK calling their kids Fanny as that is another word for Vagina.

arkitect
Mar 22, 2009, 02:07 PM
It is the same as why you wouldn't have people in the UK calling their kids Fanny as that is another word for Vagina.

O'RLY?
;)
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/3264059.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=10276273D480F6D8CFA6B8C1573633E8A55A1E4F32AD3138

Cromulent
Mar 22, 2009, 02:13 PM
O'RLY?
;)
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/3264059.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=10276273D480F6D8CFA6B8C1573633E8A55A1E4F32AD3138

Err, sorry went off on a bit of a tangent there :o.

yojitani
Mar 22, 2009, 03:22 PM
I'm curious- do you have any specific examples you can share?

Well, a pretty simple one: I was out with some friends on a warmish day. Most of them were wearing T-shirts. Later in the evening one of them started complaining about the cold and I said "you'd better put on your jacket, then" - she obviously did not have a jacket to put on. Instead of people laughing (or snickering, it wasn't exactly laugh out loud funny) everyone sucked in air between their teeth as if I'd just insulted or injured her... I dread hearing that sound now.

bumf*** Egypt

I've never heard this phrase before in my life. Why Egypt?

It is the same as why you wouldn't have people in the UK calling their kids Fanny as that is another word for Vagina.

How to say this without the double entendre? ... There are people with that name in the UK. I know several of them.

remmy
Mar 22, 2009, 03:46 PM
It's all relative - remember who we had at the helm then (:mad:). Blair is so much more articulate than Dubya that it's impossible not to see him as preferable. It was only after reading about Blair in the context of UK politics that I lost respect for him. A shame, since he seems to have had a lot of potential.


I remember when he first came to power although I was young then that there was quite a bit of optimism with him. Maybe a tiny bit like Obama but only nationally of course. A comedian said he thought he would be out of a job as Blair seemed to be so clean. (Think it was Rory Bremner but can't find the book right now)

yojitani
Mar 22, 2009, 09:01 PM
I remember when he first came to power although I was young then that there was quite a bit of optimism with him. Maybe a tiny bit like Obama but only nationally of course. A comedian said he thought he would be out of a job as Blair seemed to be so clean. (Think it was Rory Bremner but can't find the book right now)

It was optimism shaped by years of dismal Tory rule. I stayed up all night watching Tory after Tory lose their seats. It was wonderful! Especially when Portillo lost his... Some people really did buy into the image and all the 3rd way crap that people like Christopher Hitchens were spouting out at the time (and look what happened to Hitchens! He completed the line between Trotskyism and neo-conservatism). I lived in North London at the time...the old ladies at the post office weren't buying any of it!

edit: third way was Giddens, not Hitchens. Hitchens had a column in the Guardian at the time though that seemed to be of a similar persuasion... I think. hmmm...

leekohler
Mar 22, 2009, 09:38 PM
I've never heard this phrase before in my life. Why Egypt?

I don't remember. Skunk mentioned it before, but I forgot.