Thoughts? : Apple 24" LED Display vs. Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP [Archive]

shoulin333

Mar 22, 2009, 11:12 AM

Anyone seen both side by side?

Anyone have that dell? like it? hate it?

Also i have never seen an LED backlit desktop LCD before, how nice are they?

Is the glass on the Apple display too reflective? (I have lots of windows in my computer area)

...Sorry for all the Q's, if you can answer any of them i would appreciate it.

Thanks

brendon2020

Mar 22, 2009, 02:16 PM

i have the 2407wfp and love it, both for coding and gaming. I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between the 2407 and 2408.

tibi08

Mar 22, 2009, 02:20 PM

Apple if you have money to burn - it looks f/ing ace and has the docking ability. Otherwise if you're too sensible get the Dell, it's a very nice monitor. :D

Aegelward

Mar 22, 2009, 03:09 PM

The Dell has better value for money, but the LED display might last longer, since the backlights can sometimes dim over time.

stix666

Mar 22, 2009, 03:36 PM

Are the panels the same (S-IPS)?

Aegelward

Mar 22, 2009, 04:33 PM

The Dell Ultrashaps use IPS pannels, yes.

brentsg

Mar 22, 2009, 04:42 PM

The Dell Ultrashaps use IPS pannels, yes.

Source? Everything I have ever read about the 2408 indicates it's PVA.

Flash SWT

Mar 22, 2009, 05:00 PM

brentsg

Mar 22, 2009, 05:31 PM

According to Wikipedia the Dell 2409WFP uses an S-PVA panel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_monitors

Not to confuse the matter, but how about adding the HP LP2475w to the mix, it reportedly has the same H-IPS panel as the Apple 24".
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648442.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

I think at this point I've decided I would take the HP over the Dell.

There is a longstanding thread about the HP at Hardocp and it does a pretty good job of documenting the quality control issues that have plagued that model. It would be worth scanning through, I think.

MattZani

Mar 22, 2009, 05:43 PM

Whats the Difference Between S-IPS and S-PVA? Really? The 2408WFP is supposed to be one of the truest colour monitors for the money, and it boasts so many inputs, USB, Card Reader etc, and its significantly cheaper than the Apple, the ACD Looks nicer, but other than that, seems worse.

blairh

Mar 23, 2009, 12:52 PM

You're crazy to get a glossy screen if you have windows directly behind your computer. you are just asking for a ton of constant reflections and glare. hence why i went with a ACD vs an Imac.

If you have to choose between these monitors, I'd go with the Dell. It's matte and cheaper. Whether you will really notice the PVA quality vs IPS depends on what you do with the monitor. For casual use, PVA will be just fine and better than the TN's found in most monitors.

Eidorian

Mar 23, 2009, 12:54 PM

Another vote for the Dell. It also doesn't cripple you to Mini-Displayport.

bigjnyc

Mar 23, 2009, 01:08 PM

I'm in the same boat right now trying to decide between these two. I just got a Unibody MBP and my girlfriend has a unibody MB so i want a monitor for the office in our new house where we can both go and plug our laptops in. The apple looks really nice there's no doubt about that but for $500 less you are getting way more ports and way more options with the dell..... On the other hand we both have unibodies so in essence we don't really need all these other ports right? Another thing is that there is a couch in the office for lounging having the dell gives us more flexibility like if we want to hook up a dvd player in there to watch movies or hook up a cable box or something. I don't know which one to go with :confused:

KnightWRX

Mar 23, 2009, 02:41 PM

You're crazy to get a glossy screen if you have windows directly behind your computer. you are just asking for a ton of constant reflections and glare. hence why i went with a ACD vs an Imac.

I feel people are overplaying this angle. The glare isn't noticeable if the monitor is on. Of course if it's turned off, it's basically a big mirror, but once you turn up the brightness it's basically a non-issue.

I've had a LED 24" for about 2 weeks, and it was sitting right at the opposite of a window with tons of sun coming in in the morning. As soon as the pixels would light up, the glare and reflections dissapeared completely. Same with my Unibody Macbook actually.

As for the topic at hand, it really depends. The Dell 2408WFP have terrible input lag (50 ms+) and reviews on the net don't feel convinced the A01 revision actually fixed the problem. If you're going to play action games, this will be a definitive turn off. Otherwise, it's a solid display choice for the price.

lapino

Mar 23, 2009, 02:43 PM

It's just too bad the ACD doesn't have a DVI and HDMI input...

RemarkabLee

Mar 23, 2009, 02:49 PM

how nice are they?

It's entirely subjective so you're going to get lots of varying opinion.

Speaking objectively, the Apple display has a wider contrast ratio and will have a more even backlight thanks to the LED. The CCFL backlight on the Dell will, in time get dimmer and your screen will require re-calibration periodically if colour accuracy is important to you.

blackhand1001

Mar 23, 2009, 10:50 PM

It's entirely subjective so you're going to get lots of varying opinion.

Speaking objectively, the Apple display has a wider contrast ratio and will have a more even backlight thanks to the LED. The CCFL backlight on the Dell will, in time get dimmer and your screen will require re-calibration periodically if colour accuracy is important to you.

Actually your are backwards with your statement. The dell has a much mucher wider contrast ratio because it uses S-PVA which currently are really the only monitors that have their specifications given without bogus figures regarding contrst ratio. Most IPS max out at around 400 to 1, some newers ones may get near 600 in real world tests, where as S-PVA usually can get up to about 1500 to 1 and above.

KnightWRX

Mar 23, 2009, 11:14 PM

Actually your are backwards with your statement. The dell has a much mucher wider contrast ratio because it uses S-PVA which currently are really the only monitors that have their specifications given without bogus figures regarding contrst ratio. Most IPS max out at around 400 to 1, some newers ones may get near 600 in real world tests, where as S-PVA usually can get up to about 1500 to 1 and above.

Actually, that's not quite true. Once calibrated, tftcentral managed to get 698:1 contrast ratio out of a H-IPS HP LP2475w and 672:1 out of the Dell 2408WFP.

I'd say real world contrast ratios are probably very close between both monitors, unless the LED backlighting robs you of contrast ratio.

blairh

Mar 24, 2009, 10:44 AM

I feel people are overplaying this angle. The glare isn't noticeable if the monitor is on. Of course if it's turned off, it's basically a big mirror, but once you turn up the brightness it's basically a non-issue.

I've had a LED 24" for about 2 weeks, and it was sitting right at the opposite of a window with tons of sun coming in in the morning. As soon as the pixels would light up, the glare and reflections dissapeared completely. Same with my Unibody Macbook actually.

As for the topic at hand, it really depends. The Dell 2408WFP have terrible input lag (50 ms+) and reviews on the net don't feel convinced the A01 revision actually fixed the problem. If you're going to play action games, this will be a definitive turn off. Otherwise, it's a solid display choice for the price.

The glare is noticeable with the monitor on. It's that your eye is adjusting to the reflections and not noticing them as much. Go to your local Apple store, look at an Imac, and you will see glare. The only way you won't is if you use glossy screens on the daily and are used to it. Add sunlight reflecting off your monitor, whether it is on or off, and you absolutely will see reflections at times. Especially in blacks.

Your eyes are straining by attempting to ignore the glare. You will probably get used to the glossy screen in sunlight if you use it regularly, but that doesn't mean it's doing a world of good for your eyes down the road.

Get a matte screen in high sunlight environments. Your eyes will thank you down the road for it.

Ditch the Dell and get the HP LP2475w. I got mine for $609 total via Amazon. I ended up returning it because 24" was way too big for what I needed, but the monitor was amazing.

ChrisA

Mar 24, 2009, 10:58 AM

I will never buy a glossy screen monitor. And I don't recommend them to anyone. Glare and reflections are just one problem. The major problem is if you are creating any kind of photographic or video content. They exaggerate the contrast. and are not "accurate". But if you are using the computer only as a media player then some people like the exaggerated the contrast the same way some people like those speakers that exaggerate the bass. But could you imaging being an engineer trying to record a band using those bopmy speakers as a reference? He'd never get the mix right. Same with monitors they need to be accurate if you are going to make judgements about color.

If you want a iMac you are pretty much stuck as Apple has gone to using only these cheap screen on their iMacs but why buy a standalone Monitor without an anti-glare coating? Even worse why buy extra for it?

MIDI_EVIL

Mar 24, 2009, 01:17 PM

There is a longstanding thread about the HP at Hardocp and it does a pretty good job of documenting the quality control issues that have plagued that model. It would be worth scanning through, I think.

Could you be more specific about these problems?

I'm about to plonk down the cash for the HP LP2475w

I will use the monitor for video work with some colour correction, and photoshop.

brentsg

Mar 24, 2009, 01:24 PM

Could you be more specific about these problems?

I'm about to plonk down the cash for the HP LP2475w

I will use the monitor for video work with some colour correction, and photoshop.

thread is http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1326971

It's coming up on a hundred pages now and I haven't kept up in a while. The part I was following earlier was graduated color inconsistencies across the screen (ie pinkish one side, greenish other side, etc).

KnightWRX

Mar 24, 2009, 02:45 PM

Get a matte screen in high sunlight environments. Your eyes will thank you down the road for it.

Actually, I had a matte Dell inspiron 6400. I never managed to use it outside once. With the sun shinning, I couldn't even read black text off a white background with the brightness all the way up.

Tom Sawyer

Mar 24, 2009, 03:34 PM

thread is http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1326971

It's coming up on a hundred pages now and I haven't kept up in a while. The part I was following earlier was graduated color inconsistencies across the screen (ie pinkish one side, greenish other side, etc).

For what it's worth, I picked up an LP2475w for $550 shipped sealed new, and it is stellar. Now it is the latest/greatest in build revision and firmware revision so hopefully they have dealt with the issues. If you can get in at that price point and confirm that you're getting a very recent build, it's a great panel and hard to beat the price for the panel type. It DOES need calibration out of the box so if you if you do not have access to calibration equipment I might shy away from it. Once calibrated, the display is gorgeous without a doubt. Has 2xdvi, 1 display port and 1 hdmi + usb 2.0 hub etc. Again, for the price I could not be happier! Hope that helps!

blackhand1001

Mar 24, 2009, 03:38 PM

Actually, that's not quite true. Once calibrated, tftcentral managed to get 698:1 contrast ratio out of a H-IPS HP LP2475w and 672:1 out of the Dell 2408WFP.

I'd say real world contrast ratios are probably very close between both monitors, unless the LED backlighting robs you of contrast ratio.

Those results are most likely inaccurate because it is widely accepted that PVA has better contrast ratios than IPS.

The lacie 724 has the same panel as the 2408 and also has hardware calibration to ensure proper calibration so this measurement is almost foolproof. The led display got about 600 while the lacie got about 1200.

blairh

Mar 24, 2009, 11:21 PM

Actually, I had a matte Dell inspiron 6400. I never managed to use it outside once. With the sun shinning, I couldn't even read black text off a white background with the brightness all the way up.

I really don't know how much sunlight exactly was shining onto your screen, and whether you were outside at the time or inside, but the reality is that matte screens are far more easier and enjoyable to look at with sunlight reflecting down upon them in any way vs. a glossy screen. I'm specifically speaking of conditions where you are inside and have windows behind you letting sunlight hit your screen. How your screen worked outside it direct sunlight isn't a valid example. The OP is not going to be outside using their monitor having to deal with direct sunlight of that nature.

Get the HP over the Dell. Every monitor has "issues" if you look hard enough at enough forums. My HP was fantastic, and if you buy from Amazon, you can return it for a full refund if you aren't happy.

gathart

Mar 25, 2009, 05:02 AM

:( Just ordered an apple 24"

MIDI_EVIL

Mar 25, 2009, 08:27 AM

RobP

Mar 25, 2009, 12:24 PM

I really don't know how much sunlight exactly was shining onto your screen, and whether you were outside at the time or inside, but the reality is that matte screens are far more easier and enjoyable to look at with sunlight reflecting down upon them in any way vs. a glossy screen. I'm specifically speaking of conditions where you are inside and have windows behind you letting sunlight hit your screen. How your screen worked outside it direct sunlight isn't a valid example. The OP is not going to be outside using their monitor having to deal with direct sunlight of that nature.

Get the HP over the Dell. Every monitor has "issues" if you look hard enough at enough forums. My HP was fantastic, and if you buy from Amazon, you can return it for a full refund if you aren't happy.

I've got a South Facing window behind me and to my left and have no issue with reflections. The screen is bright enough that I never notice. When I have a dark background, reflections are there but I don't really notice - I guess it is down to personal tolerance.

The best thing about the ACD 24" is that the colours seem to remain the same regardless of viewing angle - in fact it is the nearest I have seen to a CRT representation on a flat screen. My Mrs in contrast uses a Dell 20" display that whilst good, has an issue that most displays seem to suffer from where if you move your head up or down or left or right the colours subtly change in intensity and brightness.

The ACD is expensive, but for me was worth every penny.

RobP

RemarkabLee

Mar 25, 2009, 12:30 PM

My Mrs in contrast uses a Dell 20" display that whilst good, has an issue that most displays seem to suffer from where if you move your head up or down or left or right the colours subtly change in intensity and brightness.

That is typical of ANY TN Film based panel, some more evident than others though. More recent TN Film panels are better (such as the 20" iMac) but a lot of cheaper LCD's have these panels.

H/S-IPS panels as used on the 24"iMac and the LED CD do not exhibit this 'feature' ;)

KnightWRX

Mar 25, 2009, 06:31 PM

Those results are most likely inaccurate because it is widely accepted that PVA has better contrast ratios than IPS.

The lacie 724 has the same panel as the 2408 and also has hardware calibration to ensure proper calibration so this measurement is almost foolproof. The led display got about 600 while the lacie got about 1200.

Feel free to peruse their site then : http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/. The guy writing this blog uses Lacie hardware to calibrate the monitors and his result on the Dell as far as contrast ratio were really close to the HP.

Unless he has no clue how to calibrate a monitor (he sounds like he knows what he's talking about), his results are probably very accurate.

blairh

Mar 25, 2009, 10:41 PM

I've got a South Facing window behind me and to my left and have no issue with reflections. The screen is bright enough that I never notice. When I have a dark background, reflections are there but I don't really notice - I guess it is down to personal tolerance.

RobP

I'm sorry but I just can't swallow the idea of sunlight reflecting on a glossy screen and someone not noticing it. Of course a reflection or glare will appear, the sunlight is hitting glass.

Your eyes are simply used to this by now. It may not bother you, but your eyes are working harder to avoid being bothered by that glare/reflection. Everyone should go with what they desire monitor wise, but I'll never mix glossy screens with sunlight. Nuff said.

blackhand1001

Mar 26, 2009, 09:16 AM

Feel free to peruse their site then : http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/. The guy writing this blog uses Lacie hardware to calibrate the monitors and his result on the Dell as far as contrast ratio were really close to the HP.

Unless he has no clue how to calibrate a monitor (he sounds like he knows what he's talking about), his results are probably very accurate.

I was pointing out that S-PVA screens have much higher constrast ratios than IPS. Its important when talking about black depth. Almost eveyr other site has the dell with a higher contrast ratio than the HP or the Apple display. I am not saying that one is better than the other, but for multimedia playback, the majority of the TV community would agree that S-PVA is superior in that aspect.