Why does Apple have so many proprietary display connectors?

[maclover001]

Hmm... lets make a list:

ADC
mini-VGA
mini-DVI
micro-DVI
mini DisplayPort

I'm glad Apple has moved everything to one non-prop cable now, but last year was a mess with different models having different types of display ports. Just think its kinda odd.

Feel free to wasteland this.

[dimme]

You forgot the original mac vga connector was different than the standard vga connector.

[Tallest Skil]

Mini DisplayPort isn't proprietary. It's a free standard using the exact same specifications as standard-sized DisplayPort.

[rdowns]

Mini DisplayPort isn't proprietary. It's a free standard using the exact same specifications as standard-sized DisplayPort.

I'd call it proprietary at this point. Aside of Apple's 24" LCD, there are none on the market. Effing ridiculous that if I want to attach a monitor to my MB that I have to buy an overpriced Apple display or overpriced Apple display adapter that should have been included in the box.

[Tallest Skil]

I'd call it proprietary at this point. Aside of Apple's 24" LCD, there are none on the market. Effing ridiculous that if I want to attach a monitor to my MB that I have to buy an overpriced Apple display or overpriced Apple display adapter that should have been included in the box.

You could call it proprietary "at this point" if they hadn't allowed free use yet, but they have, so it can't really be called proprietary.

Was USB proprietary when only Apple used it?

I completely agree though, that, since this is a port transition, there should have been an adapter included. At least they give you the Mini DVI-DVI adapter for the Mac Mini.:rolleyes:

[RobP]

Hmm... lets make a list:

ADC
mini-VGA
mini-DVI
micro-DVI
mini DisplayPort

I'm glad Apple has moved everything to one non-prop cable now, but last year was a mess with different models having different types of display ports. Just think its kinda odd.

Feel free to wasteland this.

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in. Everything they do with their machines and software is done to ensure that everything you do is Apple - its as simple as that. Even the upgrade paths are carefully designed so that certain pieces of equipment are obsoleted and certain new equipments are designed with no possibility of working with older setups. At the end of the day it is the Apple way.

I was aware of this before I bought my Mac and decided that I could live with it. In many respects when it comes to evil empires, I'd have to say Apple are a lot more 'evil' than MS. It is just that Apple seem to do 'evil' with a lot more finesse - so much finesse that most Apple fan boys love it! :rolleyes: :apple:

RobP

[Jpoon]

The policy is, if you can't deal with the way Apple does it, an Apple computer is just not right for you. Stuck in the Windows world, I'm afraid.

[iBlue]

The policy is, if you can't deal with the way Apple does it, an Apple computer is just not right for you. Stuck in the Windows world, I'm afraid.

Maybe but that doesn't mean we can't comment on what bullshyte it is.

[brentsg]

Maybe but that doesn't mean we can't comment on what bullshyte it is.

Sure you can, but it's like buying a car that you know gets poor gas mileage.... and then crying because it gets poor gas mileage.

[rtheb]

You forgot the original mac vga connector was different than the standard vga connector.

Now we have drawers full of unusable adapters...

[IJ Reilly]

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in.

This isn't entirely true. Apple has made these specs available to anyone who wishes to use them. Seems Apple has always had the idea that they can create new specifications that everyone will adopt, particularly (for some reason) with video. It started way back, when Apple used a different sync pulse than everybody else for their monitors, then again with the weird AV display connectors, then ADC, now these new ones. I'm not sure why, but this has been one of Apple's obsessions for a long time.

[nanofrog]

This isn't entirely true. Apple has made these specs available to anyone who wishes to use them. Seems Apple has always had the idea that they can create new specifications that everyone will adopt, particularly (for some reason) with video. It started way back, when Apple used a different sync pulse than everybody else for their monitors, then again with the weird AV display connectors, then ADC, now these new ones. I'm not sure why, but this has been one of Apple's obsessions for a long time.
At least in the case of the Mini DisplayPort, Apple released it later than DisplayPort (which it's based on). Other manufacturers had already created designs using the DisplayPort, and it isn't cost effective to go back and redesign it. So for now, Apple is the only company using it. Given the actual size difference isn't that great, and wider parts availability, they'll likely stick to DisplayPort anyway.

Newer, smaller products (not yet in existence), might be able to take advantage of it though. Netbook type devices come to mind, particularly if they continue to shrink things making PCB real estate harder to come by.

[belvdr]

The good news is that VESA is planning on adding Apple's mini-DisplayPort to the 1.2 spec.

See here for reference. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort#cite_note-6)

[nuckinfutz]

Note that all of Apple's connectors of recent vintage
tend to be minature versions of larger connectors.

This is because Apple is in love with thin form factors and
in design even a few mm makes a difference as to how small
you can go.

To me I agree with their approach. A connector should only be
large enough to encompass the correct amount of wires and secure
the cable.

[Dmac77]

Note that all of Apple's connectors of recent vintage
tend to be minature versions of larger connectors.

This is because Apple is in love with thin form factors and
in design even a few mm makes a difference as to how small
you can go.

To me I agree with their approach. A connector should only be
large enough to encompass the correct amount of wires and secure
the cable.

Well, is there some reason that they have to put miniaturized versions on their desktops? It's not like the iMac needs to be any thinner, or the Mini needs to get smaller. I could understand using a miniaturized version on the MBA, but it makes no sense to use the miniaturized version on the MB or the MBP, because FW800, USB, and the ethernet ports are all thicker then Mini Displayport connector, so there is no reason to use a miniaturized spec, when you can't further reduce the size because of other connectors. Apple just wants people to buy their stupid adaptors, that end up breaking after a few months use.

Don

[nanofrog]

The good news is that VESA is planning on adding Apple's mini-DisplayPort to the 1.2 spec.
They already have IIRC. ;) (Why it's no longer proprietary from a technical standpoint). ;)
A connector should only be
large enough to encompass the correct amount of wires and secure
the cable.
Some members have complained about the cable not being that secure on the Mini DisplayPort. I've no idea if it's a QC issue in the manufacturing, or in the design though. :confused:

I look at it this way. You don't change an existing standard just to shrink it. Unless it's providing some real benefit, such as fitting a board meant for a smaller enclosure (PCB real estate) than what's currently produced. It would seem to be added cost for no gain ATM. :confused: I'm thinking they're hoping to develop new, smaller products that it will be needed. It would make some sense at least. ;)

[nuckinfutz]

I don't think Apple's connector locks.

[nanofrog]

I don't think Apple's connector locks.
Eliminate the locks to shrink it? :eek: That sucks. Such a small cable really needs a lock mechanism to keep it secure. :(

[spacepower7]

Let us not forget the original connection of the Applevision 14" and 17" which included mic, speakers, ADB, and video. I still have an Applevision 14" in my office storage room. Unfortunately it was around $500 and looks great but I can't connect it to any of my Macs except my old Quadra 840AV. And it was limited to 640X480.

Mini-DP only Apple makes it currently
MiniDVI only seen it on Macs
ADC had to buy a $99 adaptor (only other monitor was a Formac)
Applevision listed above
MiniVGA only on Macs

It's really silly to shrink things down but still exclude firewire from the UniMacBooks.

[Zoowatch]

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in. Everything they do with their machines and software is done to ensure that everything you do is Apple - its as simple as that. Even the upgrade paths are carefully designed so that certain pieces of equipment are obsoleted and certain new equipments are designed with no possibility of working with older setups. At the end of the day it is the Apple way.

I was aware of this before I bought my Mac and decided that I could live with it. In many respects when it comes to evil empires, I'd have to say Apple are a lot more 'evil' than MS. It is just that Apple seem to do 'evil' with a lot more finesse - so much finesse that most Apple fan boys love it! :rolleyes: :apple:

RobP


Very well said. That's what on my mind. :D

[bartelby]

The ADC connector was a great idea. I love my 17" Studio Display. 1 cable for everything. Nice and neat.

[miles01110]

Was USB proprietary when only Apple used it?


Hmm, let's see:

USB- developed by an industry consortium, none of whose members hold sole licensing rights.

Apple MDP- developed by Apple who holds sole licensing rights.

Yeah, exactly the same situation. :rolleyes:

[nick9191]

Hmm, let's see:

USB- developed by an industry consortium, none of whose members hold sole licensing rights.

Apple MDP- developed by Apple who holds sole licensing rights.

Yeah, exactly the same situation. :rolleyes:
Apple doesn't hold licensing. The port is part of the DisplayPort spec set by VESA, making it licence free and royalty free.

[SnowLeopard2008]

Maybe because DVI ports are honkin' huge? And smaller ports are easier to attach on the logic board, if someone plugged a DVI cable in and applied some extraneous amount of force, the connector would break right off. Not the case for smaller ports.

I know you have to buy adapters, but does the majority of people attach a secondary display? No. And having one port instead of 3 or 4 but paying a bit is not that bad for me. The MDP can support composite, av, dvi, DL dvi, vga, etc. Or have 5 different ports...

[KnightWRX]

I'd call it proprietary at this point.

You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Aside of Apple's 24" LCD, there are none on the market. Effing ridiculous that if I want to attach a monitor to my MB that I have to buy an overpriced Apple display or overpriced Apple display adapter that should have been included in the box.

Monoprice. No need to pay extra. the MDP adapters are coming real soon now, including MDP to HDMI which Apple doesn't make.

[SnowLeopard2008]

I'd call it proprietary at this point. Aside of Apple's 24" LCD, there are none on the market. Effing ridiculous that if I want to attach a monitor to my MB that I have to buy an overpriced Apple display or overpriced Apple display adapter that should have been included in the box.

Apple's 24" ACD is NOT overpriced. You get speakers, iSight, power adapter, AND it's LED backlit. LED backlit is the key term(s) here. Normal displays like my own are CCFL backlit and fade/dim after a few years. LED is brighter and much cleaner (environmentally). It uses less power too.

[IJ Reilly]

Let us not forget the original connection of the Applevision 14" and 17" which included mic, speakers, ADB, and video. I still have an Applevision 14" in my office storage room. Unfortunately it was around $500 and looks great but I can't connect it to any of my Macs except my old Quadra 840AV. And it was limited to 640X480.

Not forgotten, mentioned in post #11. I also still have my 14" AV display, and the Quadra 660av I bought with it. It was a nice combo in its day, but that connector was never fully implemented, even by Apple.

[KnightWRX]

Apple's 24" ACD is NOT overpriced. You get speakers, iSight, power adapter, AND it's LED backlit. LED backlit is the key term(s) here. Normal displays like my own are CCFL backlit and fade/dim after a few years. LED is brighter and much cleaner (environmentally). It uses less power too.

And it has a H-IPS panel too.

[alphaod]

Monoprice. No need to pay extra. the MDP adapters are coming real soon now, including MDP to HDMI which Apple doesn't make.

No need to pay extra? As long as I'm pay anything more than $0, I am paying extra.

[KnightWRX]

No need to pay extra? As long as I'm pay anything more than $0, I am paying extra.

You'd rather have 15 different ports and a 2" thicker laptop ? Adapters are cheap and provide a wide array of connectivity options.

[iBlue]

Sure you can, but it's like buying a car that you know gets poor gas mileage.... and then crying because it gets poor gas mileage.

More like buying a car with the only option being a pretty little one gallon tank, and if you want more than that you are required to buy an extremely expensive adapter to use a bigger better gas tank of your choice.

[johnnj]

Is a mini-display port to regular display port adapter too much to ask for?

Doesn't even look like Monoprice (love those guys) has one of them coming out.

This would do a lot to neaten up my pseudo-docking station wire bundle.

John

[miles01110]

Apple doesn't hold licensing. The port is part of the DisplayPort spec set by VESA, making it licence free and royalty free.

From:

http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/minidisplayport.html

If, after evaluation, you would like to obtain a license to develop or distribute plugs, receptacles or other devices implementing the Mini DisplayPort Connector, please download and print this Mini DisplayPort Implementation License, complete according to the attached checklist and mail two original signed Implementation License forms to the Software Licensing address on the checklist. Your license will become effective when signed by Apple.

Forgive me if I disagree with you.

[nanofrog]

From:

http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/minidisplayport.html

Forgive me if I disagree with you.
This was posted PRIOR to the acceptance of Mini DisplayPort by VESA. It's now moot. :eek: ;) :p

[MVApple]

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in. Everything they do with their machines and software is done to ensure that everything you do is Apple - its as simple as that. Even the upgrade paths are carefully designed so that certain pieces of equipment are obsoleted and certain new equipments are designed with no possibility of working with older setups. At the end of the day it is the Apple way.

I was aware of this before I bought my Mac and decided that I could live with it. In many respects when it comes to evil empires, I'd have to say Apple are a lot more 'evil' than MS. It is just that Apple seem to do 'evil' with a lot more finesse - so much finesse that most Apple fan boys love it! :rolleyes: :apple:

RobP

My sentiments exactly. We can add mini-toslink to the mix too if you want. To Apple's defense though, the mini display port should only need a simple adapter to make it a full display port and PC manufactures are already incorporating display ports into their monitors and graphic cards. Display port is definitely next generation and we should start seeing more and more of it as time comes by. Sony is also notorious for coming up with proprietary formats.

I've come to accept it as coming with the package for Apple. I think they design items to revolve around an ideal situation.

[miles01110]

This was posted PRIOR to the acceptance of Mini DisplayPort by VESA. It's now moot. :eek: ;) :p

Acceptance by VESA has nothing to do with licensing from Apple. You still need permission from Apple to use it, regardless of how easy said permission is to obtain.

[sjivan]

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in. Everything they do with their machines and software is done to ensure that everything you do is Apple - its as simple as that. Even the upgrade paths are carefully designed so that certain pieces of equipment are obsoleted and certain new equipments are designed with no possibility of working with older setups. At the end of the day it is the Apple way.

I was aware of this before I bought my Mac and decided that I could live with it. In many respects when it comes to evil empires, I'd have to say Apple are a lot more 'evil' than MS. It is just that Apple seem to do 'evil' with a lot more finesse - so much finesse that most Apple fan boys love it! :rolleyes: :apple:

RobP

100% agree, well said RobP.

[awmazz]

Apple's whole marketing model is based on locking the user in. Everything they do with their machines and software is done to ensure that everything you do is Apple
RobP

I don't think it's about locking users in, much simpler than that - they do it because they can. Sony can't just release a new monitor with a weird new port nVidia cards don't have, nVidia can't just release a card with a weird new port Sony monitors don't have. Apple can.

Because Apple makes the whole computer setup from mouse to monitor to operating system and sell them as complete packages, they can do whatever they like to improve the whole design, eg, the ADC connector was to reduce cable clutter on the desk top to a single cable from the computer for power, DVI and USB ports. At Apple, if Jonathan Ive wants to reduce cable clutter from the display into a single port, they just do it, because they can.

PS. Another reason the 'lock-in' theory doesn't apply is every AGP graphics card in G4 and G5 Macs never had more than a single ADC port along with either a VGA or DVI port depending on the card, so buyers who wanted a non-Apple display were never locked-in to using just an Apple display or forced to buy a different card.

[nuckinfutz]

Every company wants lockin'

I've never met a company that wanted to help you buy your product or service elsewhere save for those phony insurance rate companies that claim they will show you the lowest price.

[brand]

Sony can't just release a new monitor with a weird new port nVidia cards don't have, nVidia can't just release a card with a weird new port Sony monitors don't have.

Yes they can. They can make, market, and sell whatever they want.

[awmazz]

Yes they can. They can make, market, and sell whatever they want.

Really? Not just in theory? I didn't know that. So are you sure the Sony monitors you're talking about are like Apple's ADC displays so their video port can only work with Sony desktops? The discussion is about propriety video ports only working on their own brand computers, hence people claiming it's a lock-in practice. So I'm curious now as I can't even think of any propriety Sony video ports at all. But I'm no expert on Sony as you seem to be.

[pr5owner]

The policy is, if you can't deal with the way Apple does it, an Apple computer is just not right for you. Stuck in the Windows world, I'm afraid.

you realize there is more than just 2 operating systems in the world right? (theres actaully several hundreds of OS's)

[pr5owner]

Yes they can. They can make, market, and sell whatever they want.

yep, anyone can do anything they want, but if they make some BS connector most PC users will just laugh in their face. (happens alot to sony especially with propriatary software and stuff, look what happened to the minidisc and sonic stage, what a POS, the software that is and ATRAC)