New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

[bruinsrme]

That would be great of course, but the technology is still only in its infancy and if we ran out of petrol today people would follow the path of least resistance and turn to something true & tested which would be ethanol.

IMO they should drop the whole ethanol idea today, steer everyone over on green diesel cars that are much more energy efficient than gasoline cars, and then gradually move over from diesel via diesel hybrids to electric cars. If everyone went diesel today we'd get a few decades more out of the oil, leaving ample room for the development of alternatives.

Diesel is so much better than ethanol.
Ethanol is nasty crap. If the government approves the 15% volume content anyone iwth a gas powered boat or watercraft is in trouble.

Ethanol does to engines what this thread does to its readers.
It appears to fuel the engine or information but in the end it is full of sludge that slowly destroys the engine and before you know it your mind is a goo.

[yossim]

Diesel is so much better than ethanol.
Ethanol is nasty crap. If the government approves the 15% volume content anyone iwth a gas powered boat or watercraft is in trouble.

Ethanol does to engines what this thread does to its readers.
It appears to fuel the engine or information but in the end it is full of sludge that slowly destroys the engine and before you know it your mind is a goo.

so what are you trying to say?

butanol anybody?

[localoid]

So I guess all the car analogies have led to this thread now being about cars?

Apparently...

[polaris20]

Electric cars have no future. The energy potential is much too low compared to liquid fuel.

Well what they're proposing is pretty interesting; unlike anything out there right now.

Picture a micro turbine that fires a burst of energy, charging a LiIon battery that charges extremely fast. Kind of like a hybrid now in that it does have an engine of sorts, but definitely not like current hybrids. And the battery technology will improve drastically.

[AidenShaw]

I love how this thread has nothing to do with the commercial any more :D

About the commercial, we do know that this is the first in a series. We've also heard that the budget will range up to $2000.

What's coming next? ...and after that?

If we look at the Laptop Hunters (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/) page at Microsoft, I think we can guess.


Gamer - not fair, Apple doesn't play. Windows wins hands down.
Parent - another budget ad
Designer - multi-media, mini-HTPC system
Socialite - I'd guess style/light, but the page shows a higher end 17"
Jetsetter - portable emphasis


The "gamer" one could be hysterical - especially if they show a skater-dude playing the same game side-by-side on an Apple and a PC.

I wonder if they'll leave the "laptop" market and hit Apple in its most vulnerable spot that .... huge ... gaping ... hole .... in the desktop line between the mini and the maxi-tower.


Picture a micro turbine that fires a burst of energy, charging a LiIon battery that charges extremely fast. Kind of like a hybrid now in that it does have an engine of sorts, but definitely not like current hybrids. And the battery technology will improve drastically.

This is the idea behind the Volt. It's an all-electric, but there's a small engine connected to a generator to recharge the batteries on the road.

Maybe a turbine (I really don't know their efficiency) but don't rule out a diesel or gas engine. Since the engine runs a generator, every part of the engine (input manifold, exhaust headers, valve timing, spark timing, fuel mixture,...) can tuned for best efficiency at a single RPM. No need for a broad torque range across engine speeds - it would have two speeds, idle and full. And it would almost never run at idle.

[Anuba]

Apparently...
OK, let's reset.

So I heard Microsoft has this new ad out, let's discuss that.

[yossim]

could you supply a link to this new ad?

[Tallest Skil]

I don't think so, Tim.

Yeah, it is. Enjoy your punishment.

[yossim]

Yeah, it is. Enjoy your punishment.

does this mean you're going to report him?

[Tallest Skil]

does this mean you're going to report him?

His post of images is grossly against the rules. The content of his text was also against the rules. Discussing reports is a silly thing to do, simply do what is right, and please, as many of you who view his post, do what is right within the context of the forum.

[yossim]

It doesn't seem like this "jetsetter" laptop is very competitively priced. comparing it to a macbook, it doesn't seem a whole lot better.

[GofG]

I used Mac OSX since 10.0, and OS9 since it's release date. I was pretty happy with it, but when Apple wanted $300 for me to ship my macbook pro to Cupertino, it just became economically inviable for me to own a mac. I looked at windows and... blech... Unix was definitely a necessity, because of how it organises users and doesn't let any old program do what it wants with SU privs.

I went out and bought an Asus EeePC HDA and put Ubuntu on it, switching soon after to Debian, and finally I now am running Arch with openbox. I would NEVER switch back.

What I miss from mac osx:

Coda. Easily the best text editor I ever used, ever. oh god, nothing OSS even compares to it, especially on my 1024x600 screen.

Having other hardware just work. On linux, I had to make sure the printer I was buying had OS drivers. CUPS is still a bit flaky. On my macbook pro, I could just print, period.

...I thought for a long time and that's all I could come up with.

It's easy to say that Mac OSX is better than Windows, everyone knows that that's true. Whether or not it's worth the [rand(10)] times higher pricetag is irrelevant; it is better. But is it the best? Is it any better than linux?

I say not. GNU/Linux ftw.

[Anuba]

But I will offer you this, free and clear: if I'm wrong and Apple releases an xMac within the next year and as a clear result, Apple's marketshare increases by the 50% that you claim that it will ...we'll call 'immediate' to be 6 months... I'll fly over to Sweden and take you & your girlfriend out for a nice dinner in Stockholm (or closer to home for you; your choice), all at my own expense.
:D

Thanks for the generous offer, but I didn't say their market share would skyrocket by 50%, I said that 50% of the potential customer base would buy a consumer-line Core i7 minitower. And by potential customer base I mean the existing one plus a lot of people who keep dreaming about Macs but never buy one, because the iMac isn't their idea of a desktop, the Mini is non-expandable and underpowered, and the Mac Pro would put them in debt for 16 years. The "Mac" (meaning Mac Pro minus Pro) would sell like hotcakes to existing Mac users too, just like people who already had one or more Macs bought Mac Minis in sixpacks. As for undermining Mac Pro sales, well... professionals and enthusiats who need the full power of a Mac Pro wouldn't be interested, and people who don't need a Mac Pro shouldn't have to buy one, and in most cases don't. They could make it really small for a desktop, something like Dell's Optiplex microtowers so that it's big enough to hold a couple of free PCI slots, two hard drives and dualhead video card, but still small enough to be an extra Mac you can put just about anywhere, like the Mac Mini, as a multimedia machine hooked up to your flatscreen TV or whatever.

Then again, the "Mac" would be eligible for home repairs according to the AppleCare agreement, and judging by their unbridled enthusiasm over the prospect of extra labor, I can see why they're holding back the "Mac". :D

BTW, as I mentioned in an earlier post Dell just launched the Nehalem Precision line, and I repeat - for once I gotta hand it to Apple; Dell has apparently mistaken the Nehalems for Picasso paintings.

[yossim]

I used Mac OSX since 10.0, and OS9 since it's release date. I was pretty happy with it, but when Apple wanted $300 for me to ship my macbook pro to Cupertino, it just became economically inviable for me to own a mac. I looked at windows and... blech... Unix was definitely a necessity, because of how it organises users and doesn't let any old program do what it wants with SU privs.

I went out and bought an Asus EeePC HDA and put Ubuntu on it, switching soon after to Debian, and finally I now am running Arch with openbox. I would NEVER switch back.

What I miss from mac osx:

Coda. Easily the best text editor I ever used, ever. oh god, nothing OSS even compares to it, especially on my 1024x600 screen.

Having other hardware just work. On linux, I had to make sure the printer I was buying had OS drivers. CUPS is still a bit flaky. On my macbook pro, I could just print, period.

...I thought for a long time and that's all I could come up with.

It's easy to say that Mac OSX is better than Windows, everyone knows that that's true. Whether or not it's worth the [rand(10)] times higher pricetag is irrelevant; it is better. But is it the best? Is it any better than linux?

I say not. GNU/Linux ftw.

I haven't had very good luck with linux. If it hasn't been one thing it was another.

I don't think I've given up completely on it though, just taking a break from all the frustration that it entails....

[AidenShaw]

Play off the old "98 pound weakling" ads.

A weakling weighing 98-pounds
Will get sand in his face when kicked to the ground
And soon in the gym with a determined chin,
The sweat from his pores as he works for his cause...
Makes me shake, makes me wanna
take Charles Atlas by the hand
In just seven days, I can make you a man

Rocky Horror

Picture the unlucky kid playing networked FPS games on his top-of-the-line MBP.

Keeps getting fragged, nuked, blown up, pwned, drawn and quartered and the like because the MBP just doesn't have the frame rates to stay on top of things.

CP+B takes him on a shopping trip, and he comes back with the meanest, baddest Alienware-looking quad core dual SLI rig known (but still cheaper than the MBP).

In short order, he cleans up, destroys the bad guys, saves the princess, wins the prizes - and most important - wins the girl (or boy) that he's been dreaming about.

It just screams "Mac gamers are losers"...

[bruinsrme]

:D

Thanks for the generous offer, but I didn't say their market share would skyrocket by 50%, I said that 50% of the potential customer base would buy a consumer-line Core i7 minitower. And by potential customer base I mean the existing one plus a lot of people who keep dreaming about Macs but never buy one, because the iMac isn't their idea of a desktop, the Mini is non-expandable and underpowered, and the Mac Pro would put them in debt for 16 years. The "Mac" (meaning Mac Pro minus Pro) would sell like hotcakes to existing Mac users too, just like people who already had one or more Macs bought Mac Minis in sixpacks. As for undermining Mac Pro sales, well... professionals and enthusiats who need the full power of a Mac Pro wouldn't be interested, and people who don't need a Mac Pro shouldn't have to buy one, and in most cases don't. They could make it really small for a desktop, something like Dell's Optiplex microtowers so that it's big enough to hold a couple of free PCI slots and dualhead video card, but still small enough to be an extra Mac you can put just about anywhere, like the Mac Mini, as a multimedia machine hooked up to your flatscreen TV or whatever.

Then again, the "Mac" would be eligible for home repairs according to the AppleCare agreement, and judging by their unbridled enthusiasm over the prospect of extra labor, I can see why they're holding back the "Mac". :D

BTW, as I mentioned in an earlier post Dell just launched the Nehalem Precision line, and I repeat - for once I gotta hand it to Apple; Dell has apparently mistaken the Nehalems for Picasso paintings.

i think dell was waiting for a particular supporting chip. somebody decided to transition their 8 inch factories

[yossim]

I have no idea what that "Seinfeld and Gates" ad has to do with "why you should buy a pc."
I don't see how this will help Gates...

[KnightWRX]

CP+B takes him on a shopping trip, and he comes back with the meanest, baddest Alienware-looking quad core dual SLI rig known (but still cheaper than the MBP).


Good luck with that.

If I spec a Area-51 m17x exactly like a MBP 17" (as close as possible anyway), with no SLI, I get a 2499$ price vs Apple's 2799$. SLI, the cheapest option, is 350$ extra :

[1] Area-51® m17x

Video/Graphics Card: 512MB Nvidia® GeForce™ Go 8700M GT
Display: 17" WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD (1200p) with Clearview Technology
Keyboard Options: AlienFX® Illuminated Keyboard – Exclusive Design
AlienFX®: Alienware® AlienFX® System Lighting - Indigo
Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T9500 2.6GHz (6MB Cache 800MHz FSB)
Operating System (Office software not included): Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit Edition) with Service Pack 1
Memory: 4GB« Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz – 2 x 2048MB
Notebook Tuners and Remotes: Internal Digital/Analog (ATSC) MiniCard TV Tuner
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 320GB 7,200RPM (16MB Cache) w/ Free Fall Protection
Optical Drives : 8x Dual Layer Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
Wireless: Internal Intel® Wireless 4965 a/b/g/Draft-N Mini-Card
Sound Card : Internal High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Onsite Service and 24/7 Toll-Free Phone Support

Note the slow FSB and DDR2 ram. I'm not even sure about that nVidia graphics card either.

Alienware is not cheaper than Apple. Oh and the kicker :

* Height: 2.1”
* Width: 16.1”
* Depth: 11.5”
* Weight: 10.5 lbs

[AidenShaw]

Good luck with that.

If I spec a Area-51 m17x exactly like a MBP 17" (as close as possible anyway), with no SLI, I get a 2499$ price vs Apple's 2799$. SLI, the cheapest option, is 350$ extra...

I thought that Mac folks were supposed to be right-brained, creative types. Sheese. Think of the possibilities for the ad, not disect and destroy it without having a little fun.

This is exactly why I said "Alienware-looking" - and not "Alienware Area-51 m17x" in my post!


I have no idea what that "Seinfeld and Gates" ad has to do with "why you should buy a pc."
I don't see how this will help Gates...

Bill Gates left Microsoft quite some time ago, in case you didn't realize. Ballmer has been CEO for more than 9 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer).

There's all this "love Jobs, hate Gates" in the Apple fanclub which is so misplaced now that both of them are gone.

[Anuba]

I have no idea what that "Seinfeld and Gates" ad has to do with "why you should buy a pc."
I don't see how this will help Gates...
I think you guys are all so used to the "Get a Mac" ads, that you think all ads must be about reasons to buy this or that computer. Back when those Seinfeld ads aired, everyone was asking "Why would this make me want to buy Vista?!" despite the ads not even mentioning Windows or PCs, let alone Vista.

It's kind of like switching on CNN and asking "Why would this make me laugh?" or listening to a country album and going "How is this heavy metal?"

It was a Microsoft brand ad. They wanted do disassociate the brand from cubicle boredom, in this case by being weird and random, talking about edible computers and the future being "delicious".

[KnightWRX]

I thought that Mac folks were supposed to be right-brained, creative types. Sheese. Think of the possibilities for the ad, not disect and destroy it.

This is exactly why I said "Alienware-looking" - and not "Alienware Area-51 m17x" in my post!

Ok, so you want the ad to basically lie. Ok, LOOK 50$ CHEAPER than Apple and SLI and EXTREME!

2649$

[1] Area-51® m17x

Video/Graphics Card: Dual 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® Go 8700M GT – SLI Enabled
Display: 17" WideXGA+ 1440 x 900 LCD (720p)
Keyboard Options: Non-Illuminated Keyboard – Exclusive Design
AlienFX®: Alienware® AlienFX® System Lighting - Blue
Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme X9000 2.8GHz (6MB Cache 800MHz FSB)
Operating System (Office software not included): Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit Edition) with Service Pack 1
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz – 2 x 1024MB
Notebook Tuners and Remotes: Internal Digital/Analog (ATSC) MiniCard TV Tuner
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 160GB 7,200RPM (8MB Cache) w/ Free Fall Protection
Optical Drives : 8x Dual Layer Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
Wireless: Internal Intel® Wireless 4965 a/b/g/Draft-N Mini-Card
Sound Card : Internal High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Onsite Service and 24/7 Toll-Free Phone Support

[AidenShaw]

Ok, so you want the ad to basically lie. Ok, LOOK 50$ CHEAPER than Apple and SLI and EXTREME!


Wow. You guys get your knickers in a twist just thinking about a hypothetical ad.

No wonder the brilliant "Lauren buys an HP computer" ad has 3275 replies - you're really emotionally involved in all of this.

... it's a computer
... it's a tool
... it's a television ad
... it's not the end of civilization as we know it

[KnightWRX]

Wow. You guys get your knickers in a twist just thinking about a hypothetical ad.

No wonder the brilliant Lauren ad has 3273 replies - you're really emotionally involved in all of this.

Isn't you that wanted to dispel myths ? Like.. Oh... the Myth of the Apple tax ?

If they want the gaming ad to work, they'll basically just have to find a smallish desktop with good gaming potential and try to compare it to the Mac Pro. Like the Lauren ad, here's the premise :

"Here's 1200$. Find a tower computer that's upgradable and can play games really well".

Cue kid going into Apple Store, coming out empty handed and then heading to best buy in his Golf R32 to buy a Dell XPS tower.

[AidenShaw]

Isn't you that wanted to dispel myths ? Like.. Oh... the Myth of the Apple tax ?

But, I don't consider "the Apple Tax" to be a myth. You find many, many examples of "system A" being a lot cheaper than "system B" - and the only significant difference between "A" and "B" is that "A" comes with Vista and "B" comes with OSX.

In particular, if you compare a Vista Core i7 quad-core with an Apple quad-core with the same or lesser capability - it's very, very clear that the tax for OSX multiplies the price, not just adds a percentage.

It's not an opinion, it's easy to prove.


If they want the gaming ad to work, they'll basically just have to find a smallish desktop with good gaming potential and try to compare it to the Mac Pro. Like the Lauren ad, here's the premise :

"Here's 1200$. Find a tower computer that's upgradable and can play games really well".

Cue kid going into Apple Store, coming out empty handed and then heading to best buy in his Golf R32 to buy a Dell XPS tower.

That would work, but the Lauren ad is in the category "Laptop Hunters" on the MS website. I assume that we'll have a few more ads about laptops, not desktops.

Also, the "Laptop Hunters" page at MS hints about gaming PCs.

[KnightWRX]

That would work, but the Lauren ad is in the category "Laptop Hunters" on the MS website. I assume that we'll have a few more ads about laptops, not desktops.

Also, the "Laptop Hunters" page at MS hints about gaming PCs.

So alienware is out and looking through Dell's options, they don't have much as far as gaming laptops go. The XPS M1330 and XPS Studio 13 don't have much as far as Video cards go, so again, it's going to be a MBP comparison.

The only other thing they could play on if not gaming specs, is game availability.

[Anuba]

Wow. You guys get your knickers in a twist just thinking about a hypothetical ad.

No wonder the brilliant Lauren ad has 3273 replies - you're really emotionally involved in all of this.

... it's a computer
... it's a tool
... it's a television ad
... it's not the end of civilization as we know it
I think the gamer idea is pretty solid and even if they can't get an AlienWare machine, plus they're restricted to laptops, they could still find a kickass XPS or something.

In the Lauren ad they targeted $1000 but some of the subjects were given a $2000 budget and that's bound to be another epic fail for Apple. The MBPs start at $1999 with the 2.4 GHz model, 15" 1440x900, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB/5400, and that's without the Windows license (he's a gamer right?). For $1949 they could get a Dell XPS M1730 with 2.5 GHz, 17" 1920x1200 screen, Ageia PhysX, 4 GB RAM, 320 GB/7200, Logitech Game Panel display, Vista 64-bit.

[AidenShaw]

The MBPs start at $1999 with the 2.4 GHz model, 15" 1440x900, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB/5400

I need to spend some time at the Apple store. I didn't realize that any computers over $1500 still use 5400 RPM drives except for the really large capacity drives.

[KnightWRX]

I need to spend some time at the Apple store. I didn't realize that any computers over $1000 still use 5400 RPM drives except for the large capacity drives.

Apple value battery life over platter rotation speed.

[Anuba]

I need to spend some time at the Apple store. I didn't realize that any computers over $1000 still use 5400 RPM drives except for the large capacity drives.
Well at least they offer 7200 RPM drives now, it wasn't that long ago they only had 5400 RPM, or that they bumped up the Mac Mini from 4200 RPM (no battery conservation excuse there).

[AidenShaw]

Apple value battery life over platter rotation speed.

Oh really? That seems to be an excuse....

http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-183384.html

The difference in battery life is negligible. Barefeats.com did a comparison not long ago. Go for the 7200 rpm drive.

5400 is a thing of the past. This 7200rpm whips along. I suggest it, highly.


7200-rpm-less-battery-life-myth.html (http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2006/04/7200-rpm-less-battery-life-myth.html)

The improved power consumption as a result of the femto slider and other improvements translates to power metrics of the 7200 RPM platform that has power parity to the Travelstar 5400 RPM platform.

This results in no increase in power consumption normally associated with increases in spindle RPM.


Wow - "7200-rpm-less-battery-life-myth". Another "MHz Myth" fails the test of scrutiny.

[Rodimus Prime]

Isn't you that wanted to dispel myths ? Like.. Oh... the Myth of the Apple tax ?

If they want the gaming ad to work, they'll basically just have to find a smallish desktop with good gaming potential and try to compare it to the Mac Pro. Like the Lauren ad, here's the premise :

"Here's 1200$. Find a tower computer that's upgradable and can play games really well".

Cue kid going into Apple Store, coming out empty handed and then heading to best buy in his Golf R32 to buy a Dell XPS tower.


Hate to tell you this but apple deserves this.

They are getting rightfully burned for limiting access to many things. The laptop add set a simple requirement 17in screen laptop. Everything else extra is just well extra crap you do not want nor need that you have to pay for.

This is why there is a thing known as the "Apple Tax"

To get some basic things you have to pay a huge premium. Apple been eating this for a while in desktops and now it is moving into the laptop side. I think it is a very fair add campaign and hits apple where they are the weakest.

[Anuba]

This is why there is a thing known as the "Apple Tax"
I don't think the tax is always necessarily a higher price, I think much of it comes from always going with the second-best, second-fastest components and putting it in the fine print hoping people will either miss it or just be loyal enough to overlook it. Like, OK... everybody else gives you a 3 Mpixel camera in their phones? We'll give you a 2 Mpixel camera. Everybody else gives you a 512 MB video card? We'll give you a 256 MB card. Oh, they give you 7200 RPM drives now? We'll bump our 4200 RPM drives to 5400 RPM then. What, you're saying they have 1680x1050 screens? Damn, OK, we'll go to 1440x900.

If you look back at older keynotes with Jobs (I just checked out a few on Youtube) you'll notice how passionate he is about always giving the cutting edge, the fastest, the latest of everything. This thing screams! It's the SuperDrive! It's the AirPort Extreme! The Pentium Toaster! Whooooosh! But after the Intel switch it's been more like... Look at how thin this is. Look at this material. What a design. Isn't this gorgeous? Same hyperbole but the focus has mysteriously shifted away from speed, power, capacity and breakthrough innovations to anal obsessions with superficial aspects. Any drinking game involving an Apple keynote and the word "thin" would send you straight to the E.R. The guy has been a driving force in hi-tech innovations for 30+ years and now all he wants to do is design handbags?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

If you look back at older keynotes with Jobs (I just checked out a few on Youtube) you'll notice how passionate he is about always giving the cutting edge, the fastest, the latest of everything. This thing screams! It's the SuperDrive! It's the AirPort Extreme! The Pentium Toaster! Whooooosh! But after the Intel switch it's been more like... Look at how thin this is. Look at this material. What a design. Isn't this gorgeous? Same hyperbole but the focus has mysteriously shifted away from speed, capacity and breakthrough innovations to anal obsessions with superficial aspects.

Yet Macs are selling better than ever. Sadly that just shows what the public wants...

[Anuba]

Yet Macs are selling better than ever. Sadly that just shows what the public wants...
Well, they were selling better than ever, some recent numbers posted somewhere among the billion pages of this thread showed Mac sales down 11% and PC sales up. The combination of Vista's relative suckiness and the incrEDible amount of disproportionate FUD that's been surrounding it has definitely scared some people over to the Mac side, and Mac sales were at their peak just before the economy imploded and everyone thought their Amex card was an endless source of cash... with the release of Windows 7 (which is actually quite good and will no doubt be relentlessly marketed) and the economy in limbo I think the Mac's golden days might be over for this time around.

[KnightWRX]

They are getting rightfully burned for limiting access to many things. The laptop add set a simple requirement 17in screen laptop. Everything else extra is just well extra crap you do not want nor need that you have to pay for.


Hate to break it to you, but the 17" screen means nothing as a metric. Screen realestate has nothing to do with screen size and everything to do with native resolution.

That's why this ad is BS. You might not have read through the thread yet, but this has been covered.

[tubbymac]

If you look back at older keynotes with Jobs (I just checked out a few on Youtube) you'll notice how passionate he is about always giving the cutting edge, the fastest, the latest of everything. This thing screams! It's the SuperDrive! It's the AirPort Extreme! The Pentium Toaster! Whooooosh! But after the Intel switch it's been more like... Look at how thin this is. Look at this material. What a design. Isn't this gorgeous? Same hyperbole but the focus has mysteriously shifted away from speed, power, capacity and breakthrough innovations to anal obsessions with superficial aspects.

I see it as a good thing, honestly. Apple should rightfully be commended here for adapting to the changing world. The needs of "pro" users and "enthusiast" types will never be satisfied. For them, there's always the latest and greatest processors, drives, memory, and graphics cards. But really, this is a small part of the overall market.

The needs of the typical "consumer" and average person has tapered off when compared to technology. We are talking web browsing, office apps, chatting, photos, movies, music, and most importantly, facebook in this space. In terms of gaming we're talking mostly World of Warcraft too, which quite nicely scales down well to slower computers and runs decently on low end hardware.

Almost anything will suffice for most consumers in terms of computer specs. Hence, it's no longer about pushing the bleeding edge of technology in the consumer space. When almost any machine will suffice, you don't distinguish yourself based on specs - you distinguish yourself on fashion.

Apple has succeeded tremendously in this area. Apple computers are fashionable compared to other vendors. The latest soccer mom doesn't much care to get a 3.0 ghz machine in order to get on facebook. But if it matches the furniture and the household decor? Well then the higher price justifies itself in her mind.

[AidenShaw]

Hate to break it to you, but the 17" screen means nothing as a metric. Screen realestate has nothing to do with screen size and everything to do with native resolution.

That's why this ad is BS. You might not have read through the thread yet, but this has been covered.

I don't hate to break it to you - but it really depends on the choices that the user makes.

If Lauren wants a 17" so that she can set the laptop on the desk in her dorm room, and watch a movie from her bed - resolution has *nothing* to do with it. She wants inches, and any resolution equal to 720x480 or better is fine for that task. Screen size less than 17" though, is not fine.

The terms "better" and "value" are not absolutes - what you may consider better can honestly be "worse" to someone else. Or, it may not be "worse", but it has no value and is not worth any additional expense.

The main point of the first "Laptop Hunter" ad with Lauren is about choice - choosing what features matter to you, and not paying for features that do not matter to you.

Choice. A harsh word for Cupertino.


...

Tubby, my avatar would like to meet your avatar. He has a thing for blue shorthairs....

[dejo]

Well, they were selling better than ever, some recent numbers posted somewhere among the billion pages of this thread showed Mac sales down 11% and PC sales up.
You mean these numbers?

Apple Mac U.S. units down 16 pct in February: NPD (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE52F7KS20090316)

Those are just estimates from a research firm. We won't know for sure until Apple releases it Q2 results in a few weeks.

[tubbymac]

Tubby, my avatar would like to meet your avatar. He has a thing for blue shorthairs....

Well hopefully whether we love Macs or hate Macs, we can all agree to like cute cats. Hehe.


Apple Mac U.S. units down 16 pct in February: NPD (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE52F7KS20090316)


January had the same trend. Mac sales (might have been just the desktops? can't remember) went down while PC sales went up (again probably notebooks and netbooks).

But just before that in the period ending just after Christmas, I think Apple was reporting near record profits.

[WeegieMac]

Hate to tell you this but apple deserves this.

They are getting rightfully burned for limiting access to many things. The laptop add set a simple requirement 17in screen laptop. Everything else extra is just well extra crap you do not want nor need that you have to pay for.

This is why there is a thing known as the "Apple Tax"

To get some basic things you have to pay a huge premium. Apple been eating this for a while in desktops and now it is moving into the laptop side. I think it is a very fair add campaign and hits apple where they are the weakest.

Quoted simply due to your username and the fact I have detested that character since it destroyed my childhood in 1987 ... bastard. :p

[yossim]

I think you guys are all so used to the "Get a Mac" ads, that you think all ads must be about reasons to buy this or that computer. Back when those Seinfeld ads aired, everyone was asking "Why would this make me want to buy Vista?!" despite the ads not even mentioning Windows or PCs, let alone Vista.

It's kind of like switching on CNN and asking "Why would this make me laugh?" or listening to a country album and going "How is this heavy metal?"

It was a Microsoft brand ad. They wanted do disassociate the brand from cubicle boredom, in this case by being weird and random, talking about edible computers and the future being "delicious".

Honestly, when comparing the macs ads alongside the microsoft ads, I would say that the mac ads make more personal attacks than do the windows advertisements.

of course though, they didn't help to put anybody's mind at ease about the many problems with their os.

[xbjllb]

If you look back at older keynotes with Jobs (I just checked out a few on Youtube) you'll notice how passionate he is about always giving the cutting edge, the fastest, the latest of everything. This thing screams! It's the SuperDrive! It's the AirPort Extreme! The Pentium Toaster! Whooooosh! But after the Intel switch it's been more like... Look at how thin this is. Look at this material. What a design. Isn't this gorgeous? Same hyperbole but the focus has mysteriously shifted away from speed, power, capacity and breakthrough innovations to anal obsessions with superficial aspects. Any drinking game involving an Apple keynote and the word "thin" would send you straight to the E.R. The guy has been a driving force in hi-tech innovations for 30+ years and now all he wants to do is design handbags?

It comes from a pathological need to ignore the absolute necessity of Blu-ray.

Because he couldn't provide the pirates (who he felt drove the Mac market for decades) with DRM-hacked free movies.

And the belief that idiots would settle for compression artifacts to download video junk from the iTunes store, just like they did mp3 compression because "it was like, free, dude".

I have no respect whatsoever for people who lower the bar, for whatever the reason. Especially when their very survival in a crashing economy depends on remaining cutting edge. For real, not just cosmetically and not just as far a iCrap iToys go.

:apple:

[brop52]

I wouldn't call Blu-Ray an "absolute necessity" but with changes to licensing I have a feeling it may be a BTO option next time around with the machines.

I think a lot of people don't use optical drives at all these days but everyone has different needs.

[DMann]

Yet Macs are selling better than ever. Sadly that just shows what the public wants...

It's news like this which makes Ballmer furious:

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/04/01/windows-net-share-shrank-368-year-to-year/

Windows Net share shrank 3.68% year to year
Microsoft (MSFT) Windows ended the first quarter of 2009 with an Internet market share — as measured by Web hits — of 88.14%, 3.37 points (or 3.68%) smaller than last year, according to preliminary data released overnight Tuesday by the Web metrics firm Net Applications.

In the same period, Apple’s (AAPL) Mac OS’s Net share grew to 9.77%, up 2.29 points (30.61%) and the iPhone’s grew to 0.49%, up 0.34 points (226.67%).

Net Applications’ monthly surveys are conducted by sampling browser data from some 160 million visits to websites operated by the firm’s clients. The company describes the results as “market shares,” but they do not actually measure share of market in the traditional sense of revenue or unit sales. They do, however, provide a consistent methodology by which to gauge operating system trends. (See Ars Technica for a good review of the different ways to measure Mac market share.)

[localoid]

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MK-AT476_APPLE_NS_20081215224816.gif

Mac sales flat in Dec. 08 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9126352)

Mac sales slide 6% in Jan. 09 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9128163)

Mac sales plummet by almost 17% in Feb. 09 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9129785)

[DMann]

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MK-AT476_APPLE_NS_20081215224816.gif

Mac sales flat in Dec. 08 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9126352)

Mac sales slide 6% in Jan. 09 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9128163)

Mac sales plummet by almost 17% in Feb. 09 (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9129785)In tandem with the rest of the industry.

[localoid]

In tandem with the rest of the industry.

Apple US Mac Sales Down 16%, Windows PC Sales up 22% (http://osnews.com/story/21148/Apple_US_Mac_Sales_Down_16_Windows_PC_Sales_up_22_)

"The cold hard figures are clear. February sales in the US of Apple Macintosh computers went down 16%, while sales of Windows-based computers went up 22%. In the laptop department, Apple's sales dropped 7%, while Windows-based laptop sales increased by 36%. Netbooks play an important role here, since if you take the netbooks out of the total figures, Windows laptop sales went up "only" 16%. The figures are all year-over-year, so February 2009 is compared with February 2008."

[DMann]

Apple US Mac Sales Down 16%, Windows PC Sales up 22% (http://osnews.com/story/21148/Apple_US_Mac_Sales_Down_16_Windows_PC_Sales_up_22_)

"The cold hard figures are clear. February sales in the US of Apple Macintosh computers went down 16%, while sales of Windows-based computers went up 22%. In the laptop department, Apple's sales dropped 7%, while Windows-based laptop sales increased by 36%. Netbooks play an important role here, since if you take the netbooks out of the total figures, Windows laptop sales went up "only" 16%. The figures are all year-over-year, so February 2009 is compared with February 2008."

Down from last year's stratospheric levels does not necessarily illustrate that great a loss. We'll just have to wait for the Q2 report on April 23rd.

[localoid]

Down from last year's stratospheric levels does not necessarily illustrate that great a loss. We'll just have to wait for the Q2 report on April 23rd.

In one of Aesop's fables, a fox tries many times to pluck some grapes that dangle invitingly over his head, but he cannot reach them. As he slinks away in disgust, he says, “Those grapes are probably sour anyway.”