New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

[Fenix Funk]

"Buy from us because our OS will run on any garbage hardware".
Ridiculous.

[ronwasserman]

The worst mistake a company can make is advertising about price only and NOT mentioning anything about the actual quality of the product.

And the girl is a total idiot. But then again she represents the PC demographic in general.

[-hh]

"SOME" people....which is why apple will never be a big contender in the marketshare. The microsoft ad is a good example bc most (avg computer consumers) aren't going to be willing to pay the price of a used car for a computer.

The problem with that for MS is the slippery slope of trying to be the "everything for everyone".

If this somehow sounds oddly familiar...it should. It was GM's business plan.


-hh

[lucaseve]

The fact Microsoft focuses on the price only is a proof they know they sell worse products. As people in the IT business said, Microsoft doesn't put any culture in their third-rate stuff. I remember an old "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" ad underlined that Microsoft prefers to spend on commercials than to software enhancements.

[Wikinerd]

1. MSFT hit a homerun with this ad. I enjoy watching so many get so upset about a commercial. Overanalyzing, dissecting and getting offended - must have struck a nerve

2. I run XP Pro SP3 along with leopard and have never had the windows issues that you all claim that plagues all PCs

3. Calling all Macs well built is the overstatement of the year. My g/f's macbook is a POS. I would never buy a desktop w/ laptop parts either so...

4. Aside from certain models like the MPro, PC's are almost always comparably cheaper

5. I used to own an M3 and driven a 360 Spider. Macs are not comparable to them, so please stop using the ridiculous car analogies.

6. People buy what they can afford. Average consumer doesn't see the sense of paying extra for the luxury of using OS X (especially in this climate)

7. Many use windows at work, it's convenient for them to have seemless compatability and familiarity in their home environment

8. Mac does not offer many choices. It's worked thus far, but will they have to adjust in this new economic climate?

9. A lot of people cant afford or dont care for the value add that Macs supposedly furnish. It doesnt make them any worse consumers.

10. People who do enjoy and pay more for the macs aren't bad consumers either

11. TCO argument is silly. Since when do Americans concern themselves with TCO? this is evidenced by the exponentially improved sales #'s of the subsidized iphone 3G and luxury vehicles

1. Yes they did. And quite a few of us are talking about how misleading it can be. (compare specs, overall "cost of ownership"...)

2. Try running it on several computers for several months; then I'll bet that you will eventually get one...(XP is old tho, people have done all the "beta-testing" for microsoft by now...)

3. Yeah, probably. But then I won't expect more of a HP laptop or a Dell laptop... Those sometimes look like they're gonna fall apart on the spot

4. It's actually the iMac that is equivalent in price, the Mac Pro is one of the worst culprits for the "Apple Tax". Hence the rise of Hackint0sh and EFI-X

5. What other kinds of analogies should we use, then?

6. You're right on this one. But being mislead is not what we want, is it?

7. "Seemless" (or seamless) compatibility is debatable. I've had less trouble integrating an iMac into an XP-based network than a Vista computer.

8. The fact that it has 3 main models for each lineup makes it easier to choose— this is comparable to when you "need a flowchart" to decide which choose your Mac (again, back in the early-mid 90s before Jobs came back)

9. Nor do I (and other Mac users) care about the weaknesses and the "cheapness" that a Windows computer bring us. I would have preferred Linux over Windows if you gave me a new computer.

11. You haven't counted in the intangible parts of the TCO yet..

[Anuba]

Oh and PS, it takes no effort to activate your APP and have Apple ship a box to get your iMac fixed. I realize I am most likely baiting you with further debate (which I will not respond to, I have better things to do, such as sleep), but again your comments have no logic. If you purchased APP, Apple will honor it, and if you can not get to an Apple store (as most people can not), Apple sends prepaid packing for repairs.
For the umpteenth time, you do realize that I live in Sweden and not in Cupertino, right? Please, do call Apple Sweden and ask them for such a "prepaid box", and tape the conversation. If you end up talking to the same person I did, she will probably laugh for about 15 minutes.

What she told me, in no uncertain terms, was this:

1) Forget on-site repairs on iMacs.

2) Actually, forget on-site repairs period. My town (a place of some 100,000 people south of Stockholm) was supposedly a "blind spot on their map", so in case I do get a Mac Pro someday I should know that if it breaks down I have to bring it to Stockholm for repairs. She then added "maybe if you had lived on Gotland", which was a bizarre remark given that Gotland is a remote island off the coast of Sweden, only accessible by boat or helicopter. Oh, OK, good to know in case I want to become a Mac-based sheep farmer someday.

3) The only, I repeat *only* way to have the iMac repaired was that I transport it (or ship it *at my own expense*) to any service centre of my choosing.

4) I also asked if it was possible to drop it off for repairs but keep the hard disk, since there's material on there that relates to future products and should it be leaked somehow I'd have one hell of an NDA breach on my hands, and she said "no", I have to leave the whole kit'n'kaboodle.

So yeah, good for you with your "prepaid boxes" but the global implementation of this luxury appears to be very far off.

[Wikinerd]

The fact Microsoft focuses on the price only is a proof they know they sell worse products. As people in the IT business said, Microsoft doesn't put any culture in their third-rate stuff. I remember an old "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" ad underlined that Microsoft prefers to spend on commercials than to software enhancements.

Look up "bean counter" in the ads.

[chequepoint]

Brilliant ad by Microsoft.

I love apple, BUT the simple fact is that they don't make a sub thousand dollar laptop, and they force people to choose screen size based on other features and price, not screen size alone. The simple fact of the matter is I should be able to buy a macbook with the internal specs of the 13 inch model, but with a larger screen.. and I should be able to buy a 13 inch mackbook pro. Apple won't give me these choices. PC manufacturers do.

BTW if I see one more person claim that leopard only costs $129 I'm going to start tearing throats out. The Leopard UPGRADE is $129. Leopard is not for sale, though if you consider it part of the apple tax, I'd have to guess that its around $350-400.

[Wikinerd]

Brilliant ad by Microsoft.

I love apple, BUT the simple fact is that they don't make a sub thousand dollar laptop, and they force people to choose screen size based on other features and price, not screen size alone. The simple fact of the matter is I should be able to buy a macbook with the internal specs of the 13 inch model, but with a larger screen.. and I should be able to buy a 13 inch mackbook pro. Apple won't give me these choices. PC manufacturers do.

BTW if I see one more person claim that leopard only costs $129 I'm going to start tearing throats out. The Leopard UPGRADE is $129. Leopard is not for sale, though if you consider it part of the apple tax, I'd have to guess that its around $350-400.

Well first, it's gonna be a bit hard to cram all that into a 13-inch laptop, will it?

Then again, Leopard UPGRADE costs $129 just as a Vista Ultimate UPGRADE costs $319. The "Apple Tax" is the HARDWARE COSTS that you pay.

[Anuba]

The worst mistake a company can make is advertising about price only and NOT mentioning anything about the actual quality of the product.
Do we have to go through this for every MS ad? They're not selling any "product" this time either, it's neither an ad for the computer in question, nor for Vista, it's a profile ad in the "Windows - Life Without Walls" series. They're just random snapshots (carefully chosen obviously, but you know what I mean) of the presence of Windows in daily life. Today it's a chick buying a laptop, tomorrow it can be about a guy who hooked a Windows smartphone up to a diving suit to make the world's weirdest sex doll. Well, no. But something less R-rated. Along the way, wrapped in these semi-random clips are various seeds they want to plant in people's heads. In this one they were more obvious than usual: Apple = too cool and aloof for the average Joe, bigass 17" laptop = not the pipe dream I thought it was. The message was not "buy this specific HP laptop for $699 and get Windows Vista, limited time only!".

Seriously, you go on a Mac forum thinking there's gonna be a lot of creative types with a little imagination and advertising business insights, yet you're all picking on the ad for not being a clear-cut infomercial with 1) This is the product, 2) This is the price, 3) 1-800-CALLTHISNUMBER...

[Eddyisgreat]

Brilliant ad by Microsoft.

I love apple, BUT the simple fact is that they don't make a sub thousand dollar laptop, and they force people to choose screen size based on other features and price, not screen size alone. The simple fact of the matter is I should be able to buy a macbook with the internal specs of the 13 inch model, but with a larger screen.. and I should be able to buy a 13 inch mackbook pro. Apple won't give me these choices. PC manufacturers do.

BTW if I see one more person claim that leopard only costs $129 I'm going to start tearing throats out. The Leopard UPGRADE is $129. Leopard is not for sale, though if you consider it part of the apple tax, I'd have to guess that its around $350-400.

True. I want apple to offer me a netbook with the specs of a 17" macbook pro, resolution, ports, optical drive and all the fixins'. I should be able to buy something like a mac mini that only occupies one by one square inch made out of glass. Apple sucks because they are not offering everybody everything that they want, yet they keep selling products :D

I keep hearing all this self entitlement stuff. Where is it coming from? Seriously, i've heard so much FUD. I've heard seemingly credible tech individuals say apple will fail as a company because they don't offer a netbook. People here say that a lack of a midrange customizable headless mac is the biggest mistake apple has made and will be their undoing. Proof? Links?

The only thing I see is that individuals are trying to blame apple for not being in their own particular market segment. Do you go to subway for computer parts? Do you go to a car dealership to get a nursing degree? If you are into midrange towers, vast (and sometimes troublesome) hardware configurations, netbooks, or neon led case mods, then apple does not cater to you. why is this difficult to understand?

Oh, and chequepoint, don't get me wrong. I bought a 12 inch powerbook used sometime in early 2008 and loved it. It seemed just as useful as my macbook pro but extremely mobile. However, they no longer offer such an option (especially with the elimination of firewire on the macbook) and thats just the way it is. Its a bit much to say that apple is more or less obligated to offer such an option when the general population is satisfied with the choices, isn't it? If there a viable, lucrative opprotunity for it Apple's highly paid product analysts would probably have such an option.

[elgrecomac]

The worst mistake a company can make is advertising about price only and NOT mentioning anything about the actual quality of the product.

And the girl is a total idiot. But then again she represents the PC demographic in general.

Yup. Given this attitude, she right: not cool enough to be an Apple person. LOL.

------------
17" MBP, 4 GB RAM, 30" Cinema display, 4 TB disk space, Fusion running Win 7 for MS Visio and MS Project

[El Loco]

Poor Lauren ... she doesn't even know that her laptop will have to be replaced within the next two years because her computer is built with inferior components and loaded with an operating system that is infested with viruses in addition to being generally insufficient. I genuinely feel sorry for her. If she is a typical hp user, she will have gone through 3-4 laptops by the time my MBP kicks the bucket. Not to mention that my MBP will be running just as fast on its 5th year as her hp does brand new. Lauren may have saved money today, but in the long run ... lets just say I hope she bought the extended warranty ... :D

[roski11]

The worst mistake a company can make is advertising about price only and NOT mentioning anything about the actual quality of the product.

And the girl is a total idiot. But then again she represents the PC demographic in general.

She did, the laptop had a "comfortable keyboard" and the "looks were drawing her too it"
those are key components in any machine

[-hh]

For the umpteenth time, you do realize that I live in Sweden and not in Cupertino, right?

The next time that I'm in Stockholm, mind if I swing by in my rental car and personally transport you on this errand, just to get you to stop whining?

Please, do call Apple Sweden and ask them for such a "prepaid box", and tape the conversation...

Then pay for the shipping yourself and be done with it! Afterall, the train ticket won't be free, nor is your time to go run such an errand.


3) The only, I repeat *only* way to have the iMac repaired was that I transport it (or ship it *at my own expense*) to any service centre of my choosing.

So how much would this cost? Maybe the fine readers here will pass around the tin cup for you. I think I have a few Kroner to toss in, plus an original plank of wood from the Vasa (http://www.huntzinger.com/photo/2007/sweden/vasa.jpg) that you can sell on eBay for a tidy sum. ;)

4) I also asked if it was possible to drop it off for repairs but keep the hard disk, since there's material on there that relates to future products and should it be leaked somehow I'd have one hell of an NDA breach on my hands, and she said "no", I have to leave the whole kit'n'kaboodle.

If I had that problem, I'd go find the disassembly instructions on the internet and yank that HD out. Then, I could hook it up to another machine and clean out the data, etc. Of course, I don't waste my time wallowing helplessly in self-pity.


-hh

[aristotle]

4. It's actually the iMac that is equivalent in price, the Mac Pro is one of the worst culprits for the "Apple Tax". Hence the rise of Hackint0sh and EFI-X

Ok, first rule of correcting people, make sure that you have it right. The person you were correcting had it right and you were dead wrong on this point. You are comparing Apples and oranges. The Mac Pro is not just a desktop tower, it is a workstation class tower and if you were to compare even a Dell "workstation" with Quad-core Xeon processors with ECC RAM against a comparable Mac Pro configuration, the Mac Pro would be either cheaper or competitive on hardware alone. The iMac is also price competitive against PCs in the all-in-one category. Those Hackintoshes use desktop processor with non-ECC ram. If you don't know what those things are, then you are better off going with an 24" iMac which is more than enough for even most gamers.

Besides the Nehalem processors of up to 8 cores and 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM up to 32GB, mac pros also have double wide 16-lane PCI Express 2.0 slots with thumbscrew PCI brackets for tool free installation and Four 3.5-inch cable-free, direct-attach hard drive bays with built-in independent 3Gb/s Serial ATA channels. Comparing it to a regular desktop is idiotic.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

[MikeTheC]

It's a stupid commercial with no class that looks like it was put together by amateurs wanting to film something to stick up on YouTube.

Besides, it's fracking ages-long. Who would seriously sit there and watch a commercial that's that long?

It just goes to prove something Steve Jobs said years and years ago... Microsoft has no class (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw&feature=related).

[elgrecomac]

Here is my story...and I am 'a Mac'...

I made the religious conversion to Apple in 2008 after years of Windows 95 this, XP that and hasta la 'Vista', baby. My decision was based on the general feeling that Apple made a better hardware and OS product and, with Fusion, I could run my 3 remaining PC-only apps. It was worth the $1000 premium I paid for a comparable PC.

I began having hardware issues within 3 months of taking ownership of the 17" MBP. Apple had to replace the logic board and the hard drive.

I began to have video issues after the logic board was replaced. Apple had to replace the logic board...again.

I had to replace my 30" cinema display....twice. :eek:

I've had problems with my battery and power supply that required replacement of those as well.

I am tired of hearing the Apple Fanboys rant about PCs. My experience is mind boggling given the hype Apple spins about its platform. Now, to be fair, the one constant in all of this was OS X. A great OS..but please, Fanboys, cut the crap about Apple hardware. From my perspective, it is as weak as a Sony Vaio or HP laptop. :cool:

Oh...and thank god I had the extended warranty or I would have been out a few thousand bucks replacing my system. Fanboys. stop drinking the cool aid.

[chequepoint]

I don't think apple HAS to make these products, all I'm saying is that there are people who want these products, and will go somewhere else. Microsoft isn't wrong.

Cram "All That" into a 13 inch macbook? if by "All That" you mean dedicated graphics, and a firewire port.. yeah, I think engineering can figure it out.

I just hate this perception that everything apple makes is flawless. I say this having spent well close to 5K in apple products last year. Nothing makes me happier than seeing microsoft take a big swing at their flaws.

[Anuba]

blah

Argh! Self pity? Seriously, the only one I pity a little is my girlfriend since she's the one who uses the machine these days. I have 3 other fully functional machines, we can get to the pity part if they ALL break down.
The only reason why I had to go over the story again is that some dork accused me of making it up.

(PS - Pulling out the HDD was obviously my first thought, but the Dell dude who was here a while ago, and incidentally used to do Apple repairs back in the beige days", said that a lot of people who do that on alu iMacs damage the screen, so... no thanks)

[freediverdude]

Ya know, I've done a bunch of thinking about this ad in the past day or so, and I've come to the conclusion that this ad isn't about slamming apple or trying to get people to purchase a pc instead of a mac.

I think this ad is more about making people who have chosen to purchase a fairly inexpensive pc, or are making the decision to purchase a pc like that, feel good about doing so. Which is an important message in this economy of many people who can no longer afford a pricey computer.

Purchasing a mac has sort of become an "in" thing, like how buying an ipod was 5 years ago. I think this ad helps the opinions of people who decided not to get one (or any other pricey computer for that matter), for whatever reason.

If us mac faithful get our panties in a wad over this, then Microsoft gets to chuckle, but this ad really isn't about buying a mac or not. It's not about us. But I'm happy that the windows people finally have a nice ad that they can feel good about.

[Davieis]

She obviously thinks Macs are cooler than PCs as she went especially to the Apple store first, rather than going straight to Best Buy where they clearly sell Macs aswell... :P Pity she isn't cool enough for Macs.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9141/picture1pqp.jpg

[MacAndy74]

Why did Microsoft make this Ad, it's shallow and poorly thought out.

Anyway, it didn't make me want to buy a PC, actually it made me happier than ever to be an Apple Inc, customer.

Maybe Microsoft should have concentrated on how wonderful (in their minds only) Windows is; instead of cheap shots directed at Apple.
:o:apple:

[thejakill]

i don't think these ads are going to convert many people.

the people who shop at wal-mart because it's cheaper can have their crappy PC computers.

there's a reason there are so many apple fanboys...

[Habakuk]

The best part of the ad by far:

I love it how Microsoft is avoiding the faux-pas word "Windows" in an almost spasmodic manner. You can't hear it for just one single time in the whole spot. You have to watch very carefully to see the very small "Windows" logo for one or two times.

It is an ad for HP, Best Buy and Volkswagen. They even don't dare to call it Windows. Funny, isn't it?!

[petermcphee]

Maybe Microsoft should have concentrated on how wonderful (in their minds only) Windows is; instead of cheap shots directed at Apple.
:o:apple:

I get jokes. Cheap shots. Good one.

[aethelbert]

Maybe Microsoft should have concentrated on how wonderful (in their minds only) Windows is; instead of cheap shots directed at Apple.
Oh, poor Apple: victimized by cheap shots from big bully Microsoft! Because they've always been so nice and polite through their ad campaigns.

/sarcasm

[inkswamp]

Well, I am just cool enough to be a Mac person. :cool:

Is that what MS considers good marketing? Strongly linking Windows to the bargain basement PC market? LOL! My god, Microsoft marketing strikes out again. Who writes this stuff anyway? If it was intentional satire, it would be brilliant. :D

[iMaggot]

Wow i feel so cool now :p

[Full of Win]

Brilliant ad by Microsoft.

I love apple, BUT the simple fact is that they don't make a sub thousand dollar laptop, and they force people to choose screen size based on other features and price, not screen size alone. The simple fact of the matter is I should be able to buy a macbook with the internal specs of the 13 inch model, but with a larger screen.. and I should be able to buy a 13 inch mackbook pro. Apple won't give me these choices. PC manufacturers do.

BTW if I see one more person claim that leopard only costs $129 I'm going to start tearing throats out. The Leopard UPGRADE is $129. Leopard is not for sale, though if you consider it part of the apple tax, I'd have to guess that its around $350-400.

Actually, Leopard cost billions of dollars. The lease of Leopard cost ~129+Tax.

[inkswamp]

I began having hardware issues within 3 months of taking ownership of the 17" MBP. Apple had to replace the logic board and the hard drive.

Sorry to hear you had such a lousy experience, but statistically speaking, your experience is extremely uncommon. Look up some statistics for hardware failure for Macs and the rest of the PC market. Sometimes Consumer Reports runs them but there are other sources. The difference is striking, especially when it comes to critical failures that render the machine unusable. I work in an environment of Macs and PCs (mostly Dells) and in the last three years, we've had no hardware failures on the Macs but dozens of hardware issues with the Dells.

[Anuba]

The best part of the ad by far:

I love it how Microsoft is avoiding the faux-pas word "Windows" in an almost spasmodic manner. You can't hear it for just one single time in the whole spot. You have to watch very carefully to see the very small "Windows" logo for one or two times.

It is an ad for HP, Best Buy and Volkswagen. They even don't dare to call it Windows. Funny, isn't it?!
It says "Windows - Life without walls". That's what this long-running campaign is called. It was up there loud and clear (this is for TV, not for tiny YouTube peepholes).

They already said from the beginning that these aren't product ads, they're profile ads (hence no mention of Windows 7, Vista, Mobile or any specific product) that are supposed to show how Windows has become part of the fabric of daily life, to the point where we no longer think about it. They want to establish a brand status of Coca-Cola proportions. Obviously, then, it would defeat the purpose of the ad if the people in it were running around repeating "Windows" like a mantra. And true to the format, she doesn't think or talk about Windows, she buys a computer and takes Windows for granted.

If you judge it on the merits of how well it managed to sell this or that HP laptop to you, the ad flew way over your head, which is either a failure on the part of the ad, or...

[Drag'nGT]

Here is my story...and I am 'a Mac'...

I made the religious conversion to Apple in 2008 after years of Windows 95 this, XP that and hasta la 'Vista', baby. My decision was based on the general feeling that Apple made a better hardware and OS product and, with Fusion, I could run my 3 remaining PC-only apps. It was worth the $1000 premium I paid for a comparable PC.

I began having hardware issues within 3 months of taking ownership of the 17" MBP. Apple had to replace the logic board and the hard drive.

I began to have video issues after the logic board was replaced. Apple had to replace the logic board...again.

I had to replace my 30" cinema display....twice. :eek:

I've had problems with my battery and power supply that required replacement of those as well.

I am tired of hearing the Apple Fanboys rant about PCs. My experience is mind boggling given the hype Apple spins about its platform. Now, to be fair, the one constant in all of this was OS X. A great OS..but please, Fanboys, cut the crap about Apple hardware. From my perspective, it is as weak as a Sony Vaio or HP laptop. :cool:

Oh...and thank god I had the extended warranty or I would have been out a few thousand bucks replacing my system. Fanboys. stop drinking the cool aid.

My rule is that you get what you pay for. A $500 computer doesn't do what a $1000 computer does/can do. I also agree that sometimes you get a lemon in even the greatest items (constant little things with my BMW come to mind). But at some point you should have been given an entirely new computer with that many issues over the same thing.

[El Loco]

What they didn't tell you in the ad: Shortly after purchasing her laptop, Lauren sold her brand new hp on eBay for near market value and immediately took the cash back to her local Apple Store to put toward the purchase of the clearly cooler and superior 17" Macbook Pro ... and Lauren lived happily ever after ...

[davidbrummy]

A $1000 is probably all they could afford after giving all that cash to Seinfeld.

On a more serious note people who can only afford $1000 for a computer are not really the market to go after. At best they will only replace their computer every 5 years and already have a good enough PC.

Microsoft consistent misses the point that aiming at the lowest end of the market is not really going to win. They need to aim at people who will drop 2-3k on a top of the range computer and do so every 2 years.

However those people tend to buy Macs.

[Harry Bosch]

It is an ad for HP, Best Buy and Volkswagen. They even don't dare to call it Windows. Funny, isn't it?!

It's VERY funny! Instead of advertising Windows (those attempts failed) Microsoft comes out with a campaign for the PC manufacturers to help them not look so bad for having shipped Vista machines. But it backfires, like all their recent attempts. Message to the public: "You're a cheap schmuck for buying a PC. No wait, um, well, maybe not a TOTAL schmuck..."

[skaertus]

Wow, this thread is really growing. Microsoft's ad is a huge success after all. This shows that Microsoft has a point: not even Apple consumers are 100% comfortable with the high prices charged by Apple and they find the need to justify their purchases in this forum. If the Mac superiority was so evident, there would be no room for so much discussion. Nobody keeps discussing so much whether a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari or a Rolex have to be so expensive. They just have a high price tag and people are OK with that. This does not happen with Apple products.

[offwidafairies]

only reason i don't buy a pc is i don't want to run windows... but then, there's always linux. i think this ad is fair - apple is overpriced. i love apple and own a 17" mbp and am happy with it, mostly, but i felt very poor for quite a while after i bought it. and although vista totally sucks, leopard has not been without issues. i cannot run some of my audio software and hardware on leopard - and it is 18months since leopard was released. pretty poor in my opinion. apple needs to deliver better products and updates if it keeps selling overpriced units.

[offwidafairies]

A $1000 is probably all they could afford after giving all that cash to Seinfeld.

On a more serious note people who can only afford $1000 for a computer are not really the market to go after. At best they will only replace their computer every 5 years and already have a good enough PC.

Microsoft consistent misses the point that aiming at the lowest end of the market is not really going to win. They need to aim at people who will drop 2-3k on a top of the range computer and do so every 2 years.

However those people tend to buy Macs.

i wish i could afford to spend that much every 2 years

[mikeinternet]

no sightings of the lower and higher budgets yet?

[BadPirate]

And she said she'd need to double her ($1000) budget to buy a 17" MBP. Where did she find such an awesome discount? :D :p The ad should have said "triple her budget".

I hate giving away my secrets... but http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB512LL/A?mco=MjE0NjE5MA

[Anuba]

A $1000 is probably all they could afford after giving all that cash to Seinfeld.

On a more serious note people who can only afford $1000 for a computer are not really the market to go after. At best they will only replace their computer every 5 years and already have a good enough PC.

Microsoft consistent misses the point that aiming at the lowest end of the market is not really going to win.
Well, they're not selling the computers, they're selling the OS and a lot of the popular software that goes onto it later. Whether the machine costs $500 or $50,000 is someone else's problem.

But again, this ad isn't selling anything. It's a brand awareness ad by crispin, porter + bogusky. Their style is, basically, random and deceptively mundane things with easter eggs embedded, and the reaction they like best is when people go "What the HELL was that?" and keep talking and thinking about it for weeks. They probably thought, "I bet this one will drive them bonkers. They'll go... so am I supposed to buy a HP now or what? What's going on? Argh!"

[paja]

What the Microsoft's ad is really saying .....

"I don't have enough money to buy what i really want so I have to settle for this piece of crap"

[dwl017]

Wow, this thread is really growing. Microsoft's ad is a huge success after all. This shows that Microsoft has a point: not even Apple consumers are 100% comfortable with the high prices charged by Apple and they find the need to justify their purchases in this forum. If the Mac superiority was so evident, there would be no room for so much discussion. Nobody keeps discussing so much whether a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari or a Rolex have to be so expensive. They just have a high price tag and people are OK with that. This does not happen with Apple products.

I agree this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 82 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

[MacFly123]

It's like dreaming to own a BMW but having to settle for a cheap Ford or Toyota.

i literally just made this analogy a few pages ago haha.

That's true. I'd love to own a BMW, but I'll have to settle for a Hyundai for now.

Wouldn't she have to almost triple her budget to get a 17" MBP? And I bet the memory is stacked leading to poor battery life... Would you rather drive a BMW or a Chevy?

Here is a little something I put together that you guys might like! :) The analogy is so true!

[Habakuk]

It says "Windows - Life without walls".

Thanks for pointing that out. That's what came into my mind *) when you told me this:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l169/bahnfrei/dummy-looking-for-microsoft-wall_02.jpg

That's what this long-running campaign is called. It was up there loud and clear (this is for TV, not for tiny YouTube peepholes).

Sorry. We can't watch original US TV ads here in Europe. I just watched the clips provided here.

...And true to the format, she doesn't think or talk about Windows, she buys a computer and takes Windows for granted.

She should look for a better hair dresser... She should buy a better computer to be able making more money for the more expensive computer and a better hair dresser (and a fancier car).

It's VERY funny! ...But it backfires, like all their recent attempts. Message to the public: "You're a cheap schmuck for buying a PC. No wait, um, well, maybe not a TOTAL schmuck..."

Ack.

Wow, this thread is really growing. Microsoft's ad is a huge success after all...

Ack. Indeed. They made my day :) Really! More of this please!

*) I've taken that out of a local automobile club magazine. Here you have the original (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l169/bahnfrei/dummy_02.jpg). Take it and put something in the bubbles.

[davidbrummy]

I agree this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 82 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

This is a good point. I originally switch to Mac 4 years ago so for OSX. I had used a combination of Windows and Linux and wanted a half way house. The funny thing is now on my MacBook Pro I run OSX and Linux/Windows on top of VMWare.

One thing I would say to your point is Apple has grown beyond just OSX. They are now pushing an eco system. iPhone, iPhone, iTunes, MobileMe and AppleTV. This is something I bet a lot of companies wish they had.

[semitry]

I don't understand why everyone throws around the car analogies. Fords do not have the same engines as a Enzo or Lamborghini. Macs do have the same components as PCs.

[davidbrummy]

i wish i could afford to spend that much every 2 years

It is true that people do not have the same spending power and also choose to spend their money on different things. Wishing will never change that.

[xeroply]

Good for Microsoft. Maybe they are finally giving up trying to be like Apple and admitting and playing to their true strength: pile-o-specs slap-together machines for the least bucks.

Apple: "Our products are better!"

Microsoft: "Fine, but ours are dirt cheap! And prolific! Yet still superficially similar!"

I honestly think they will have more success this way in the end (though perhaps less self-respect). It's how they built their empire. The WalMart way.

IMO, Vista really went off the rails because they tried to make it all high-octane glossy feeling like OS X and alienated their bread-n-butter Homer Simpson / IT department customers in the process (not just aesthetically but in terms of hardware requirements and so on). Vista was useful in the sense that it proved you can't just slap on a glass look and some 3D effects and become Apple. If only the iPhone imitators would pay attention.

In any case, as much as I may love the Mac, turnabout is only fair play. Apple has been punching Microsoft in the gut for the last 2-3 years with their ads. I'm frankly surprised it took MS so long to hit back with something substantive.

Personally, after spending 5+ years of my life supporting Windows machines in a medium-size enterprise environment and learning the dirty little secrets about what makes them tick, I will not even consider a Windows PC for myself again until Microsoft:

a) overhauls or eliminates the Registry in favor of something more robust (giant, non-journaled, non-partitioned, non-rebuildable binary blobs of configuration goo that everything depends on! What a swell idea.)

b) gets rid of those clunky DOS-era drive letters (hello, and welcome to preschool; let's practice our alphabet!) and enters the world of modern unified filesystem trees

c) writes a decent, modern driver model that doesn't make you sit through laggy installation of new drivers for every unique flash drive you plug in, for each USB port (wtf?! You already HAVE drivers for USB mass storage devices loaded! What are you doing? Stomping around in that awful Registry swamp, no doubt, trying to figure out which end is up.)

d) straightens out the execution hook mess that gives malware something like 87 different places to put a "launch me at every boot up" flag. (OK, to be fair Vista prevents some of this with UAC, but the hooks are still there).

e) finally tells their Windows system component dev teams that they have more than 8 letters, and even different letter cases (gasp!), available to them for naming files. Anyone want a helping of MSVBVM60.DLL with a side of ESENT.DLL? (Some geek is surely patting themselves on the back for that one. "Look! I got it down to 5 LETTERS! WOOOO! I win the bet!" Maybe they should just combine that with the drive letter concept and distill C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32 down to 26 files named A.DLL through Z.DLL.)

Yes, there's Linux. Been there. Tried that. Gave up after 3 days. Wanna do stuff WITH computer, not TO it.

[mosx]

No. About the only free software you can get that's up to iLife standards is Picasa. The others? Sorry, nothing else compares. You're going to be spending hundreds to get those features in software that good.

No, you don't. As I said, digital video cameras come with full versions of video editing software that are equally as powerful as iMovie. I'd say more so, since iMovie is geared towards sharing on MobileMe while the others are geared towards DVD/blu-ray creation. That also takes care of iMovie. As for Garageband, as pointed out here many times, M-Audio sells better software plus a higher quality audio interface in a nice little bundle for under $100.

You just shot your credibility. Command-X, Command-P.

Actually, you shot your own credibility. I said cut and paste in the OS. Open Finder, click on a file or folder. Right click brings up only copy. Now do Command-X. Nothing happens. Click Edit and you'll see Cut is greyed out. So I basically can't do something in OS X that I've been able to do in Windows since.. the beginning? haha.

Really? Because I have an original copy of Vista too. I recently re-installed. I had to update Windows Update before Windows Update would even work. Then I updated, again, and again, and again, each update I did meant there were now several more updates available. I counted this time. Wanna know the total? Ten. Ten updates and restarts. That's absurd. The total file size was somewhere north of 2GB when all was said and done. It's kind of hard to keep track of all that after ten restarts.

Ah, now I know you're lying and you've further hurt your credibility. I reinstalled Vista recently after trying the public beta of Windows 7. For me, after install, it was about 4 restarts. The same as OS X. SP1 was only 50MB, the rest equaled about ~150MB average per update.

Really? Because I just plugged in my printer. It worked. Oh, and the scanner, too (MFP).

I have an HP Officejet 5510v, 4 years old. Works in Vista completely with no drivers. Same goes for my HP Photosmart 475. Yet in Leopard, even with the driver updates, scanning will not work with the Officejet, and Leopard seems unable to recognize the Photosmart as a photo printer and refuses to let me choose photo paper or photo paper sizes to print on.

I recently helped a young lady near me set up her laptop (Acer, I think). The total number of trial software icons was something like 8. But it was a low-end system. See below for more comments on this.

Nevermind the fact that most of those icons on the desktop are links to websites.

[opeter]

Actually, you shot your own credibility. I said cut and paste in the OS. Open Finder, click on a file or folder. Right click brings up only copy. Now do Command-X. Nothing happens. Click Edit and you'll see Cut is greyed out. So I basically can't do something in OS X that I've been able to do in Windows since.. the beginning? haha.

Yes, mosx is right. MacOS doesn't have this function.

But there are two more things, were MacOS very week (or a better word: very primitive) is: the "merge" function and Open/Save dialogs without the copy/paste/rename ect. functions, that in Windows you have for ages...

If you want to merge two folders, so that the original files in one folder stays intact (so, they don't get overwritten), you need to use ForkLift, PathFinder or some other utilities, like Araxis Merge for OSX (http://www.araxis.com/merge_mac/index.html). You have to PAY for this simple function, that this superior OS, that is called MacOS X, doesn't have.

For the Open/Save dialog, you have to buy utilities, like Default Folder X (http://www.stclairsoft.com/DefaultFolderX/), so that you've got almost the same functions inside Open/Save dialogs in MacOS X, as there are in every version of Windows since Windows 95 OSR2.5 with installed Internet Explorer 4 and Active Desktop.

You have to PAY for this function, that this superior OS, that is called MacOS X, doesn't have.

[butterfly0fdoom]

As for Garageband, as pointed out here many times, M-Audio sells better software plus a higher quality audio interface in a nice little bundle for under $100.

I personally actually prefer Garageband over M-Audio's Session software. I mean, to each its own, I guess. But I consider Garageband more capable and useful for me.

I have an HP Officejet 5510v, 4 years old. Works in Vista completely with no drivers. Same goes for my HP Photosmart 475. Yet in Leopard, even with the driver updates, scanning will not work with the Officejet, and Leopard seems unable to recognize the Photosmart as a photo printer and refuses to let me choose photo paper or photo paper sizes to print on.

That's actually a rather hit or miss thing; my apartmentmate has an HP LaserJet (I don't remember which model). My roommate and I both use Macs, and my apartmentmate only had the PC drivers; we scoured the internet for a week only to find out through randomly trying to connect to the printer that OS X came with the drivers. It really depends.

[Xtremekillr]

Gosh.. 17" inch screen HP yuck! So heavy why would anyone want that? Might as well get a desktop lol. Never had a good experience with HP owning 2 desktops and 1 laptop from them. All died on me around 2 years and countless amount of problems during the time. Wish I switched to Mac earlier =).

[LaMerVipere]

I hate when some people always almost immediately downshift into car comparisons when the PC vs. Mac battle heats up.

It's just stupid, and really, not a valid analogy.

[Habakuk]

I don't understand why everyone throws around the car analogies. Fords do not have the same engines as a Enzo or Lamborghini. Macs do have the same components as PCs.

Wouldn't you call the $200+ operating system a "component of a PC"? I would even call it "engine" rather than the main processor unit.

[Freyqq]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/7A238j Safari/525.20)

Haha this sort of thing just shows how much of a threat Apple has become to M$. They always amuse me with they ads they come up with.

not really a threat considering how they only sell high-end. MS makes the same amount of $ if they sell to a $5000 system as to a $500 system, as they just supply the OS. Apple is becoming "more" of a threat to the likes of Dell and HP.

Still, I think the MS advertising campaign makes perfect sense in this economic climate. People are tight on cash and with Win 7 coming soon, I think Apple needs to start worrying and thinking up some way to get the unibody macbook down below $1000. That might sound outlandish to some, but considering it doesn't have anything fundamentally more expensive in it hardware-wise compared to these $700 dells except for a shiny aluminum case..I think they could easily do this.

[Koola]

As a network engineer I use all OS systems, all have pros/cons but it's just stupid to say one is better than the other period.

I like the MS advert though, it's about time they pointed out one of their many advantages...

[DMann]

Well, I am just cool enough to be a Mac person. :cool:

Is that what MS considers good marketing? Strongly linking Windows to the bargain basement PC market? LOL! My god, Microsoft marketing strikes out again. Who writes this stuff anyway? If it was intentional satire, it would be brilliant. :D

This is right up there with the Seinfeld/Gates follies, which bombed so famously. They all seem to have a unified intention - to inspire ridicule.

[djellison]

Macs do have the same components as PCs.

Quite. Infact the quality of the LCD on my new £1200 Macbook is significantly worse than on my £300 netbook.

The car analogy is utterly false. Indeed - the only way to deploy it is to have two very similar cars - but one with a mucky windshield, seats that are not adjustable, and a price tag twice as high. THAT'S the Mac. And I own one.

[inkswamp]

I don't understand why everyone throws around the car analogies. Fords do not have the same engines as a Enzo or Lamborghini. Macs do have the same components as PCs.

I won't defend the car analogies either as I think that's overused and frequently off-base, but you have to admit that Macs do have a much higher quality manufacturing process to them and that does match the car analogy very well. They may be made of many of the same components (we assume--never rule out that Apple may be buying better quality controlled batches of those components than their competitors in the PC market) but surely, you can see that those components are being put together in a much better way.

And also, I have to ask, as I always do when I hear this: if Macs and PCs are the same components, why do PCs statistically have a significantly higher rate of hardware failure than Macs? That doesn't make sense if they're just the same.

[Habakuk]

Macs do have the same components as PCs.

My old & incomplete list (just for my June/2007 MBP) of technical components (let alone with OS):

Slot-in drive?
"Invisible" (when off) iSight camera indicator?
Built-in 2 MP video camera?
Alu body (uni or not)? (Very important for long-life and sturdyness.)
Real glass in front of screen? (-"-)
Mag Safe?
Smallest charger/power supply in the world (by far)?
Best touchpad in the world (by far)?
Fuel indicators direct on the battery?
LED backlit? (My MBP was the first 15" in the world.)
Wake up (fully operational readiness) from suspend within 0.5 seconds?
No clamps, hooks or catches at the display's bezel at all ?
Illuminated keyboard?
FW800?
Tons of fancy sensors for backlights?
Perfect & timeless design?

I could go on like this for hours...

[Sijmen]

My old & incomplete list (just for my June/2007 MBP) of technical components (let alone with OS):

[...]

It's also the other way around.

Many new (even ~€ 1000) laptops come with:
Blu-ray
Card reader
Full-size DVI port
More than 2 USB ports
That's not a long list but I find the first two items important and it shows that it's not just one-sided.

[djellison]

much higher quality manufacturing process

I would say no. There are quality issues. They have used some very questionable components in the past, and still today. MB plastic falling off. MBPs warping. Battery lids not fitting etc etc etc etc

Doug

[Balin64]

Opinion schmoponion, this is my experience.

I work with graphic design and audio, sometimes making graphics for applications, sometimes making lengthy Flash ads with music soundtrack. Freelancing, always on standby for projects, tight deadlines and all that.

For this I use two PCs, one with Vista only, the other with three partitions (Vista, XP, Win7 beta). If there was even the slightest hint of glitches that got in the way of my work, I would use something else. I had trouble with two drivers in the beginning - Intel's wireless driver and NVidias gfx card driver, but these were not harmful to my work and they were fixed within a month after I installed Vista on these two machines that shipped with XP Professional. That's the end of my Vista "problems", just over two years ago. These machines run, run, and run again, the laptop probably taking the worst hit as it's virtually an "always on" machine. After just under 3 years, the motherboard on my desktop machine died. Dell replaced it the next day, and that was the end of it. So all in all I've had less than 24 hrs downtime in 3 years.

Now, enter the Mac (late 2007). One of my clients reeeeally wanted me to work on a Mac, on location, so I said OK, look, we'll make a deal: You buy me an iMac 24" with Adobe CS3, I'll buy it when the project is over for the residual value.

OK, so the Mac arrives (came with Leopard) after taking FOREVER to be delivered, nine weeks or whatever it was, and I start working. Day one: Very flakey wireless, had to use wired network; very flakey Mail app, server timeouts half the time for no apparent reason (Leopard issue, the other guys at the office were on Tiger and had no issues with mail); weird video glitches, when returning from sleep mode the screen was flickering like a stroboscope so I had to reboot (later fixed with a firmware update. MUCH later.). Lots of random crashes in Safari. Day two, working on some PSD files on the server. And what does the Mac go ahead and do? It destroys my client's files! Look it up on the web, and sure enough, several reports of CS3 corrupting documents under Leopard when you save to a server. Fortunately they had a backup. Few weeks later: Tried to install a driver for a firewire audio device called Yamaha 01X. Decided I didn't like it. Uninstalled. Not. The iMac started doing the infamous perpetual blue screen thing that so many people were experiencing with Leopard. Took me a day to track down some puny MIDI driver file that was buried deep in the Library somewhere, it made Leopard hang on startup. Starting to feel like Windows 98 here. After these minor and one major, MAJOR glitch it worked pretty well.

After the project I brought the machine home and more or less gave it to my girlfriend. It ran for a few months, then died completely (black screen, no 'bing' startup sound, only a faint whirr from the DVD drive). Call Apple support. Turns out my AppleCare plan wasn't registered, huge ordeal to register when a year has passed, faxing receipts and all sorts of crap. Anyway, talked to the snarkiest person ever to disgrace a support line, went through a ridiculous troubleshooting routine despite my assurances that I know a dead computer when I see one, and if I insert the OS X DVD it will only get stuck inside the machine. She insisted. The DVD got stuck. I asked about on-site repairs like I'm used to with my PCs. Apparently a ridiculous request, for two reasons -- A) an iMac isn't a desktop computer when it needs service, only in advertising, and B) I lived "too far" from the nearest service center (60 miles/100 km).

It's still sitting in a corner, I have to register the damn AppleCare plan and then transport the machine somehow to Stockholm, drop it off, and then travel back to pick it up an unknown number of days later.

Every single aspect of my Mac experience has been awful -- the purchase, the stability, the hardware quality, the support and service. Meanwhile the Vista machines are chugging along happily.

So forgive me if I feel like I'm in the twilight zone when people say stuff like "go Mac, it just works, you don't want a PC with the blah blah viruses and yada yada malware and bleh bluhh driver hell". Yeah mmmmkay, on what planet is that happening?

Anuba: There is a Christmas, and a Heaven: it is littered with wonderful PC Goodness, and you will never have to deal with devilish Mac elements again.

Voice of God: "If you are truly a designer, and agreed to use an iMac for Design work... I would have fired you: immediately. Not for your lack of foresight, or waiting weeks for the project to be completed, but because you were simply incompetent: who waits weeks for a design?"

Which leads me to believe you are full of it: seriously. No one hired you for design work, did they?

There are some of us who depend on the Mac platform for our livelihood: that is all that needs to be said: it works. We are not discussing hardware features, or build progressions... we simply WORK.

If your work is better suited with PC's running Windows, and Macs have left a bad taste in your mouth... what do you want, a cookie?

To the rest of the MacRumors REGULARS: ignore this guy... seriously...

balin64

[DMann]

My old list (just for my June/2007 MBP, incomplete) of technical components (let alone with OS):

Slot-in drive?
"Invisible" (when off) iSight camera indicator?
Built-in 2 MP video camera?
Alu body (uni or not)? (Very important for long-life and sturdyness.)
Real glass in front of screen? (-"-)
Mag Safe?
Smallest charger/power supply in the world (by far)?
Best touchpad in the world (by far)?
Fuel indicators direct on the battery?
LED backlit? (My MBP was the first 15" in the world.)
Wake up (fully operational readiness) from suspend within 0.5 seconds?
No clamps, hooks or catches at the display's bezel at all ?
Illuminated keyboard?
FW800?
Tons of fancy sensors for backlights?
Perfect & timeless design?

I could go on like this for hours...

Of course, others will rant that all these innovative features are frivolous and unnecessary for most users. I suppose there remain some who would choose not to embrace the invention of the wheel when traveling on dry pavement.

[Pika]

This is a kind of unfair image...particularly around the GeekSquad (which I will abbreviate GS).

GS provides these services:

1)general pc repair...any repair...and I believe Macs too

2)pc upgrading...more ram, bigger/extra hard drive, newer dvd drive

3)antivirus/spyware

4)home visits for most of above as well as home networkingIt's a scam. Don't let the freak squad touch your computer.

I was just in the store looking at the Mac section, and I HAD to tell a young couple that they were being lied to when a Best Buy drone told them that they could put a 9800 GTX in a 24" iMac. Beyond the obvious reasons that the drone was an idiot, the card is thicker than the computer itself.

Normally when you buy a PC it comes with many trial software... all these "geeks" do is uninstall those software (something you can do at home)... and they install anti-virus software (**as their PACKAGE deal**)

cant believe some people are being taken advantage of like this...

sad really...

btw on a side note... what encouraged them to stop doing full refunds on items in store (they do it in canada, why not the states)

I know whenever I'm browsing the computer section of just about any store and am approached by a sales associate who asks, "May I help you?" my answer is always, "No. No you really cannot."

I know that that's an unfair generalization, but I wonder these days what the requirements are to be hired by the likes of Geek Squad. Are there any requirements at all?

Letting the Geek Squad touch a new iMac to "optimize" it is about as sensible as allowing a fox to "clean" the chicken coop.

said above though I really think its overpriced. Maybe at half the price its worth it, but then again these services are priced based on what people are willing to pay, and some people are willing to pay in order to have these things done for them.

The sad part about it is that they charge the same price for the pc optimization and that includes a lot more work (removal of trial software, registry and msconfig tweaks which does speed things up).

The Geek Squad is a scam, and there will always be suckers out there. The truth of the matter is that computers are not as simple as people try to make them out to be, opening the door to plenty of people like the Geek Squad. Especially easy targets are recent switchers from Windows who assume the Mac works just like a PC.

I once saw someone at the big box store I worked at sell an in-home installation on a 17" iMac.

The optimization is BS. I wouldn't want some stranger opening up my brand new computer. To add to that, a Mac is so idiot-proofed out of the box and Apple has made every effort to make setting up a new Mac fun.

I went to Best Buy the other day and this lady bought a bluetooth headset and didn't now how to pair it and best buy charges $9.99 to pair it.

[Jodlesx]

My old & incomplete list (just for my June/2007 MBP) of technical components (let alone with OS):

...

I could go on like this for hours...

Slot-in drive? Not sure
"Invisible" (when off) iSight camera indicator? Not sure
Built-in 2 MP video camera? Yes?
Alu body (uni or not)? (Very important for long-life and sturdyness.) You can get magnesium
Real glass in front of screen? (-"-) Not sure
Mag Safe? Yes
Smallest charger/power supply in the world (by far)? Not sure
Best touchpad in the world (by far)? Subjective
Fuel indicators direct on the battery? Yes
LED backlit? (My MBP was the first 15" in the world.) Not sure(?)
Wake up (fully operational readiness) from suspend within 0.5 seconds? Yes
No clamps, hooks or catches at the display's bezel at all ? Not sure
Illuminated keyboard? Yes
FW800? Yes! (new Macbook? no...)
Tons of fancy sensors for backlights? Yes
Perfect & timeless design? again subjective, but I would agree..:cool:

+ (from Sijmen's post)
Blu-ray
Card reader
Full-size DVI port
More than 2 USB ports
+
Expresscard slot
Easily exchangable batteries? Extra battery in place of cd-drive?

[Wikinerd]

Wouldn't you call the $200+ operating system a "component of a PC"? I would even call it "engine" rather than the main processor unit.

Actually, depending on how you argue it, the Mac OS X OS itself is $129, compared to Vista Ultimate, $319 (Ultimate because that's the "full thing" while Mac OS X doesn't have stripped down versions.).


PS. anyone who argues that "Apple tax" should be factored into the cost of using the operating system is somewhat untrue. It's a "requirement" to use an Apple-labeled computer for this software, much like how you need at least 512MB RAM to (theoretically) run Vista. (And it IS related to hardware. Mac OS X boots off EFIs not BIOSs)

[mosx]

My old & incomplete list (just for my June/2007 MBP) of technical components (let alone with OS):

Slot-in drive?
"Invisible" (when off) iSight camera indicator?
Built-in 2 MP video camera?
Alu body (uni or not)? (Very important for long-life and sturdyness.)
Real glass in front of screen? (-"-)
Mag Safe?
Smallest charger/power supply in the world (by far)?
Best touchpad in the world (by far)?
Fuel indicators direct on the battery?
LED backlit? (My MBP was the first 15" in the world.)
Wake up (fully operational readiness) from suspend within 0.5 seconds?
No clamps, hooks or catches at the display's bezel at all ?
Illuminated keyboard?
FW800?
Tons of fancy sensors for backlights?
Perfect & timeless design?

I could go on like this for hours...

As another poster pointed out, it can easily go the other way.

Modern PC notebooks come with:
Blu-ray
HDMI
Full size ExpressCard
eSATA
GPUs much more powerful than the mid-range GeForce 9600M GT
Card Readers
Built-in HDTV tuners
screen resolutions higher than 1440x900
Multiple GPUs
Support for hybrid SLI for integrated chipsets plus dedicated GPUs

A few things are wrong with your post as well.

Slot loading optical drives are bad for the consumer. It means more parts that can fail. Good luck getting the disc out without ruining it if the ejector motors ever fail. It also means that you have to look for very specific drives if it dies out of warranty. I can't just go to newegg and be up and running again with any $50 notebook drive.

Built-in webcams are a commodity these days.

Your particular MacBook Pro isn't a UniBody unit, which makes it prone to denting, warping from heat and even regular use regardless of heat, scratching, and case separation. The UniBody units are subject to denting on enormous scales thanks to incredibly weak metal used on the top and bottom.

PC manufacturers offer glass as an option on PC notebooks, yours doesn't have glass. HP offered glass screens before Apple did.

MagSafe is a fire hazard.

And the adapter is not that small. The only real difference between the 90w MBP adapter and my 90w HP adapter is that the MBP adapter is squished, short and fat. The HP adapter is long and skinny. Overall similar mass.

LED backlights have been an option for awhile now.

"Best" touchpad is debatable. I have a UniBody MacBook and I prefer my MX Revolution mouse to the touchpad and my MX5500 keyboard to the built-in keyboard.

Vista wakes instantly, as does XP. They also offer something OS X does not. "Hibernate". You can save your session to the HDD and fully power down. Upon restart, it takes only seconds to resume and saves energy.

Illuminated keyboards are options for PCs, but mostly a gimmick for those of us who know how to type.

Latches are a thing of the past.

Why do I want Firewire 800 when eSATA is a standard feature on a PC?

Why do I need ambient light sensors? I turned it off on my MacBook because it was annoying. On my iPhone I turned it off the very same day I activated the iPhone. I hate the ambient light sensor and it ruins battery life.

"Perfect" design is also debatable. The previous generation MacBook Pro was hideous. It and the G4 PowerBooks looked like some 80s reject design for computers. The current 15.4" MacBook Pro is also hideous, with the super small keyboard and the extremely and overly large bezel around the screen. The 17" MacBook Pro looks better with the thinner MacBook like bezel, however, the small sunken in keyboard is also hideous. Apple needs to think proportions and put in a full keyboard, complete with number pad. If PC manufacturers can fit full keyboards that are full sized on smaller systems, Apple can do it too.

Actually, depending on how you argue it, the Mac OS X OS itself is $129, compared to Vista Ultimate, $319 (Ultimate because that's the "full thing" while Mac OS X doesn't have stripped down versions.).


PS. anyone who argues that "Apple tax" should be factored into the cost of using the operating system is somewhat untrue. It's a "requirement" to use an Apple-labeled computer for this software, much like how you need at least 512MB RAM to (theoretically) run Vista. (And it IS related to hardware. Mac OS X boots off EFIs not BIOSs)

Wrong. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493 Vista Ultimate 64-bit, $179.

And you only need Vista Home Premium to equal Leopard. It even includes technologies that Leopard currently does not. For example, the technology to use the GPU in the way OpenCL will has already existed in Windows thanks to nvidia and ATI for over a year now ;) And Windows has been taking full advantage of the GPU for video playback for almost a decade now. Not half-assed HWMC and iDCT support like OS X.

[Wikinerd]

No, you don't. As I said, digital video cameras come with full versions of video editing software that are equally as powerful as iMovie. I'd say more so, since iMovie is geared towards sharing on MobileMe while the others are geared towards DVD/blu-ray creation. That also takes care of iMovie. As for Garageband, as pointed out here many times, M-Audio sells better software plus a higher quality audio interface in a nice little bundle for under $100.
Who said that software aren't paid for? You paid for it in the purchases of your digital cameras. But then you rarely do get such a user friendly and powerful tool such as iMovie...

—AND it's all for $79 if you want to upgrade... or $169 for iLife + iWork + OS X... Nice deal if you ask me...

(And in terms of Pro tools, software such as Final Cut and Logic Pro is quite renowned out there...)

Actually, you shot your own credibility. I said cut and paste in the OS. Open Finder, click on a file or folder. Right click brings up only copy. Now do Command-X. Nothing happens. Click Edit and you'll see Cut is greyed out. So I basically can't do something in OS X that I've been able to do in Windows since.. the beginning? haha.

Completely different paradigm. It's a different OS, for god's sake; It's called MOVE TO TRASH. Cmd+delete if you want the shortcut.

[opeter]

I won't defend the car analogies either as I think that's overused and frequently off-base, but you have to admit that Macs do have a much higher quality manufacturing process to them and that does match the car analogy very well. They may be made of many of the same components (we assume--never rule out that Apple may be buying better quality controlled batches of those components than their competitors in the PC market) but surely, you can see that those components are being put together in a much better way.

And also, I have to ask, as I always do when I hear this: if Macs and PCs are the same components, why do PCs statistically have a significantly higher rate of hardware failure than Macs? That doesn't make sense if they're just the same.

here you go: a new ALU Macbook, thet felt from about 1 m:

http://www.shrani.si/f/1b/BO/3qabXHXC/dsc04895640.jpg

http://www.shrani.si/f/P/FA/2z2GUba6/dsc04896640.jpg

If it were the old plastic case, it would be two options: either it would break or you would see no damage at all... but now, that it is made out of aluminium, you have no other option, than bring it back to Apple Reseller and pray, that they will change it (of course you will have to pay about 25% of repair cost, if you even have some warranty - we don't have Apple Care here), or you have another option: an hammer, combined with patience and too many free time on your hands.

EDIT: changed the size of the images

[Wikinerd]

Wrong. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493 Vista Ultimate 64-bit, $179.

And you only need Vista Home Premium to equal Leopard. It even includes technologies that Leopard currently does not. For example, the technology to use the GPU in the way OpenCL will has already existed in Windows thanks to nvidia and ATI for over a year now ;) And Windows has been taking full advantage of the GPU for video playback for almost a decade now. Not half-assed HWMC and iDCT support like OS X.

Launch price and official price at Microsoft's website. (There're always ways where you can get them cheaper... so I'm not gonna just go dig another number out...)

(And Mac OS X's price is also taken from Apple's website.)

[MorphingDragon]

To completely put the car analogy in the dust, (No Pun Intended)
How many of us actually BUY a NEW car?
(Though I do like driving european cars over cheap Japanese/Korean cars)

Which also makes me wonder,
What are Windows Camp people doing on an Apple rumour site?
I recently came from the nVidia forums and I had to be the ONLY person who owned a mac in the last 5 years. Yet on one of the first few threads there must of been atleast 10 people who don't own a mac.

The mystery of logic confuses me :S

Why did I buy a mac?
:apple: Because I can :apple:
NO theres more to it than that.
A society where we have to justify what we BOUGHT with our OWN money is a pretty sad one.

My new 24" mac? Not perfect in the least bit of sense but in my experience,
Vista trips over its own toes going past Internet related services. (Coming from an Ex Hardcore Gamer Freak) Windows 7 doesn't look like it would fix much, If youve used KDE 4 with crystal enabled you know where Im coming from. ITS VERY KDE 4 LIKE. I dont want Aero, I want my computer!!!

Leopard?
Meh, the only other experience Ive had was Mac OS9 on a Performa 5200 so I cant compare.
The mighty mouse sucks, I got me a good ol' Logitech Mouse.
Price, Yea right, I couldve of payed for one years Tuition for University.
So why did I get it?
Re-Read my post if you still haven't figured out.

Oh and for the post above, Opeter:
Im assuming you live in America?
But I give kudos for Apple for trying a new technique which is significantly better than traditional means. (In terms of strength)
In europe/pacific, if it is covered under warranty it MUST be accepted and replaced or a full refund given.
Or you give the place hell :D (The latter is always so fun)

[Wikinerd]

here you go: a new ALU Macbook, thet felt from about 1 m:


If it were the old plastic case, it would be two options: either it would break or you would see no damage at all... but now, that it is made out of aluminium, you have no other option, than bring it back to Apple Reseller and pray, that they will change it (of course you will have to pay about 25% of repair cost, if you even have some warranty - we don't have Apple Care here).

EDIT: changed the size of the images

1m?!?!? And you call that "significant"? You really need to see how bad other kinds of computers look when they take that kind of a beating.

What about that HP that looks like it's going to fall apart right there in the store? Tried dropping it? I bet you'll get more damage than a warped case.

[mosx]

Who said that software aren't paid for? You paid for it in the purchases of your digital cameras. But then you rarely do get such a user friendly and powerful tool such as iMovie...

How is iMovie "powerful" again? It's tailored to uploading Youtube and MobileMe movies. Where tools that come with digital video cameras are designed for DVD creation, something people actually want.

—AND it's all for $79 if you want to upgrade... or $169 for iLife + iWork + OS X... Nice deal if you ask me...

Why would I want iWork when OpenOffice is free and more powerful? Why would I want to pay for all of the iLife apps that are largely useless to nearly all of the population? Especially when Picassa, Windows Live Photo Gallery, HP Photosmart Essentials and others are freeware and do the exact same things as iPhoto, except wonky facial recognition.

(And in terms of Pro tools, software such as Final Cut and Logic Pro is quite renowned out there...)

Final Cut is decent, but it's not like video editing tools don't exist on the PC. Besides, Final Cut requires you to use a computer that costs twice as much and delivers half the power.

Logic Pro? No reasonably intelligent person is going to choose that over Pro Tools or M-Audio's solutions.

Completely different paradigm. It's a different OS, for god's sake; It's called MOVE TO TRASH. Cmd+delete if you want the shortcut.

What I said has nothing to do with deleting files. In Windows you can cut and paste files in Explorer (not IE). So if I want to move a file from one folder to another I can just cut and paste. I don't have to drag and drop and have multiple windows open or hold the file over endless amounts of folders waiting for them to open, etc.

Launch price and official price at Microsoft's website. (There're always ways where you can get them cheaper... so I'm not gonna just go digg another number out...)

(And Mac OS X's price is also taken from Apple's website.)

Newegg, Tigerdirect, Fry's, etc. have all had Vista Ultimate 64-bit for around that price since launch. Nobody is foolish enough to pay full retail.

What about that HP that looks like it's going to fall apart right there in the store? Tried dropping it? I bet you'll get more damage than a warped case.

I have an HP notebook from the generation before the one the girl in the commercial bought. the plastic casing on it is much stronger and feels much sturdier than the very soft, so soft it bends to the touch, metal used on the bottom and lid of the UniBody MacBook and Pro.

[MorphingDragon]

Wrong. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493 Vista Ultimate 64-bit, $179.

And you only need Vista Home Premium to equal Leopard. It even includes technologies that Leopard currently does not. For example, the technology to use the GPU in the way OpenCL will has already existed in Windows thanks to nvidia and ATI for over a year now ;) And Windows has been taking full advantage of the GPU for video playback for almost a decade now. Not half-assed HWMC and iDCT support like OS X.

You seem to misunderstand what OpenCL is,
OpenCL is like CUDA but Open and works on many platfroms, not just nvidia.
CUDA has been avaliable on ALL OSes for a Loooong time.
Its to run code and applications, its not for media.
Purevideo and Avivo has been avaliable for a long time for Unix like systems.
Although support is shoddy in linux (Grrr ATi) and Apple opt for their proprietary 2D overlay (QuickTime/QuatzExtreme) Just because it uses something different from Windows doesnt mean its bad, Compiz has to be the ultimate eye candy experience over Aero (I still dont care) From what I recall Quicktime is still the best Media Overlay around :P

Oh and look at my post above for Windows Camp users on an Apple Forum.

[EmperorDarius]

Final Cut is decent, but it's not like video editing tools don't exist on the PC. Besides



The only real alternative to FCS is Avid Media Composer, which costs 2500$ (CD) or 2300$ (Download). Double the price. And the interface is horrible.


Final Cut requires you to use a computer that costs twice as much and delivers half the power.


And twice the stability. And the security. And half the time needed to maintain your computer in good shape.
Hardware is not everything. Quite a lot of people don't want to bother with stupid useless things that come with Windows.

[opeter]

Oh and for the post above, Opeter:
That can be very common in mass manufacturing,
Ive recieved several faulty parts and got them replaced,
Im assuming you live in america?
But I give kudos for Apple for trying a new technique which is significantly better than traditional means. (In terms of strength)
In europe/pacific it has to be as advertised/displayed on box and in proper working condition or be replaced no exceptions and no extra charges.
Or you give the place hell :D (The latter is always so fun)

No, look at my location. Here in EU, Macs are much more expensive ... that's why many people are "not cool enough" if you can't afford one. And most people can't and never will.

The Apple ads and overhyped products are creating an artifical need inside some (most) peoples brain (you, know "the consume (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ut93YYZu8)" way of life, brainless consuming, the living for you brand etc.)... of course that's what marketing is about. That's good on one side, but bad on the other.

Why?

Because more Macs will be stolen. Since there are desired to be own. And there will be revolution. Sooner or later. Look at these managers, who are never satisfied with their money. That's why we have the whole recession. And of course, because people did stop to consume. OMG, what will be now? The whole capitalism is becoming to collapse. :eek:

If there will be not enough people to buy the overpriced Apple products, what will be then? As you americans write all the time, you can get for 250-300 $ a nice PC at Wal-mart or Bestbuy, etc. For 80% of all these people is that more than enough.

[MorphingDragon]

No, look at my location. Here in EU, Macs are much more expensive ... that's why many people are "not cool enough" if you can't afford one. And most people can't and never will.

The Apple ads and overhyped products are creating an artifical need inside some (most) peoples brain (you, know "the consume (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ut93YYZu8)" way of life, brainless consuming, the living for you brand etc.)... of course that's what marketing is about. That's good on one side, but bad on the other.

Why?

Because more Macs will be stolen. Since there are desired to be own. And there will be revolution. Sooner or later. Look at these managers, who are never satisfied with their money. That's why we have the whole recession. And of course, because people did stop to consume. OMG, what will be now? The whole capitalism is becoming to collapse. :eek:

If there will be not enough people to buy the overpriced Apple products, what will be then? As you americans write all the time, you can get for 250-300 $ a nice PC at Wal-mart or Bestbuy, etc. For 80% of all these people is that more than enough.

Lucky you, you live in Europe. I live in New Zealand.

But theres no denying what you said above.
I didnt buy my mac to look cool, but a lot of people do and then this starts. Apple IS the market genius. (Irony much?)
Microsoft get seen as a base, Minimum. Apple is seen as a status symbol. Since people are desperately trying to get popular they use any means necessary to do it.

Though saying that there are a few who actually buy a Mac because they actually need it for something or it is better at doing something. But then theyre as rare as diamonds and turn into Zealots.

[Wikinerd]

How is iMovie "powerful" again? It's tailored to uploading Youtube and MobileMe movies. Where tools that come with digital video cameras are designed for DVD creation, something people actually want.
For something that user-friendly and "easy-to-use" that's gonna be as powerful as you're going to get. Until you write one that's more "friendly" that's more "powerful" I'd say that is the case...

Why would I want iWork when OpenOffice is free and more powerful? Why would I want to pay for all of the iLife apps that are largely useless to nearly all of the population? Especially when Picassa, Windows Live Photo Gallery, HP Photosmart Essentials and others are freeware and do the exact same things as iPhoto, except wonky facial recognition.

Openoffice, while a good idea, is not really "streamlined" and um... "useable" in general (that is, of course, my opinion). How long would you have to labor at a computer to make a presentable document or a dazzling presentation is what matters

Final Cut is decent, but it's not like video editing tools don't exist on the PC. Besides, Final Cut requires you to use a computer that costs twice as much and delivers half the power.

Logic Pro? No reasonably intelligent person is going to choose that over Pro Tools or M-Audio's solutions.
Have you used it, then?


What I said has nothing to do with deleting files. In Windows you can cut and paste files in Explorer (not IE). So if I want to move a file from one folder to another I can just cut and paste. I don't have to drag and drop and have multiple windows open or hold the file over endless amounts of folders waiting for them to open, etc.
Well if you're so insistent on doing it that way, why not just cmd+c, cmd+delete,cmd+v? ... or better just use terminal for mass transfers... ("mv")


Newegg, Tigerdirect, Fry's, etc. have all had Vista Ultimate 64-bit for around that price since launch. Nobody is foolish enough to pay full retail.
Let's just say that I can also get a price for OS X that's lower... but since it's just a race of "who searches ebay for lower prices" let's just stick with official figures, ok?


I have an HP notebook from the generation before the one the girl in the commercial bought. the plastic casing on it is much stronger and feels much sturdier than the very soft, so soft it bends to the touch, metal used on the bottom and lid of the UniBody MacBook and Pro.
Okay, I'll have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about... the "so soft it bends to the touch, metal used on the bottom and lid of the UniBody MacBook and Pro."... nor am I sure how that proves your point about it being sturdy either...

[MorphingDragon]

MOSX reminds me of Hexen525 of the nVidia forums.
His name is also a giveaway of what his intentions are.

[Wikinerd]

I have an HP notebook from the generation before the one the girl in the commercial bought. the plastic casing on it is much stronger and feels much sturdier than the very soft, so soft it bends to the touch, metal used on the bottom and lid of the UniBody MacBook and Pro.

Oh, and by the way, have you tried dropping it from 1m? (preferably tilted to one of the corners, so that the corner absorbs the impact the most, like how that MBP did?)

PS. I'm not responsible for any costs of damages this might incur.

[binkennedy]

I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out (couldn't be bothered to trawl through 2,000+ posts) but when our "star" enters the Mac store there's a man in a pretty awfull horizontal striped jumper walking by. When "La Lauren" leaves, this man has walked about six paces.

Either he's part of the film, he stopped to check out this weird female who didn't buy anything, or she just walked in, waited a few seconds for the camera to re-position, then walked straight out again.

Hardly an in-depth investigation.:confused:

Also, does this mean that Microsoft have so little respect for the intelligence of it's customers that they think this will sway them? (Don't answer that, I think we already know...).

[Wikinerd]

I know that that's an unfair generalization, but I wonder these days what the requirements are to be hired by the likes of Geek Squad. Are there any requirements at all?

High school course on "business and marketing" maybe?

[MorphingDragon]

I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out (couldn't be bothered to trawl through 2,000+ posts) but when our "star" enters the Mac store there's a man in a pretty awfull horizontal striped jumper walking by. When "La Lauren" leaves, this man has walked about six paces.

Either he's part of the film, he stopped to check out this weird female who didn't buy anything, or she just walked in, waited a few seconds for the camera to re-position, then walked straight out again.

Hardly an in-depth investigation of the opposition.:confused:


Several times,
but at least theres some other people who analyse ads instead of eating them up like a fresh truffle.

I also call foul on people comapring a retail copy of Leopard to an OEM copy of Vista,
Technically its illegal for you to even be buying it because you arent a licensed builder.

[rotta]

Well, you may like Windoze or not, but there's some truth in there.

I have 3 macs at the moment, and had planned on buying one of the new Mac Pros when they were launched. But, no way. The prices are ridiculous. I now have to pay more for a 4-core model (now maxing out at 8 gig of ram) than I had to pay for the previous 8-core. The new 8-core, by the way, where I live, costs about 40% more than the previous model.

Most of the world get along just fine with a Microsoft OS, no matter what Apple fanboys may think. My next desktop machine will probably run XP, with Premiere Pro and After Effects, for one third of the price of a new Mac Pro.

My Macbook Pro now gives me about half an hour of battery life. My work laptop, an HP that is a year older, gives me an hour and-a-half.

Obviously I'd want to continue buying Apple products, but at the moment Apple are far richer than me, so I'll spend my money elsewhere. Sad, but I'll get by OK

Now, let the flaming begin...;_)

[cecildk9999]

all people are asking for is that they reconsider their obsession with having 2 or 3 times the profit margin of everyone else in the business for no valid reason

While I don't disagree with this statement, I think we're forgetting that as a company, Apple's number one goal is to make money. And in much the same way that consumers make a choice between a designer brand in clothing versus a generic brand, Apple has been working that angle for years in marketing itself as a fashionable brand name. Fleshing out its product line a bit more and staying away from odd decisions (I'm thinking of the new Shuffle) would be nice, but their bottom line is profit motive. They won't rethink that margin line unless/until demand drops. While I haven't bought any new Apple products for almost three years, when my laptop or iPod dies, I'm not sure I'd go back to Windows offerings since there're still some things in the Mac lineup that I would buy.

[binkennedy]

Lucky you, you live in Europe. I live in New Zealand.

But theres no denying what you said above.
I didnt buy my mac to look cool, but a lot of people do and then this starts. Apple IS the market genius. (Irony much?)
Microsoft get seen as a base, Minimum. Apple is seen as a status symbol. Since people are desperately trying to get popular they use any means necessary to do it.

Though saying that there are a few who actually buy a Mac because they actually need it for something or it is better at doing something. But then theyre as rare as diamonds and turn into Zealots.

I think you're both missing the point as to why I and a lot of other people buy Macs, which is that they don't have Windows on them! I work with Microsoft machines every day and the relief when I turn to my own computer and it "Just works" is sometimes indescribable (so I won't bother trying). That alone is worth the extra money to me...:)



Thank God for Microsoft, keeps me in work! (Computer repairs at affordable prices!)

[Wikinerd]

Well, you may like Windoze or not, but there's some truth in there.

I have 3 macs at the moment, and had planned on buying one of the new Mac Pros when they were launched. But, no way. The prices are ridiculous. I now have to pay more for a 4-core model (now maxing out at 8 gig of ram) than I had to pay for the previous 8-core. The new 8-core, by the way, where I live, costs about 40% more than the previous model.


You can always try looking in "refurbished"..

[DMann]

Logic Pro? No reasonably intelligent person is going to choose that over Pro Tools or M-Audio's solutions.

This is not necessarily so. I use both Logic Pro 8 and Pro Tools M-Powered 8 extensively. Pro Tools biggest con is that it's hardware dependent. (and therefore much more expensive) The latest version of Logic Pro (8) is really spectacular, very easy to use, and powerful. If using any kind of softsynths, loops, or sequencing, it is superior to both Pro Tools and Reason. Everything is now done from a single screen, instead of hunting for inputs, routing, or other features. I used Reason in conjunction with my audio tracks for years, and with the new synths & beats in Logic 8, I don't need Reason anymore. Although Logic Pro is more geared towards midi and composing than instrument recording, it does both exceptionally well. As for recording and producing midi and virtual instruments, Logic Pro is better than Pro Tools.

[Wikinerd]

I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out (couldn't be bothered to trawl through 2,000+ posts) but when our "star" enters the Mac store there's a man in a pretty awfull horizontal striped jumper walking by. When "La Lauren" leaves, this man has walked about six paces.

Either he's part of the film, he stopped to check out this weird female who didn't buy anything, or she just walked in, waited a few seconds for the camera to re-position, then walked straight out again.

Hardly an in-depth investigation.:confused:

Also, does this mean that Microsoft have so little respect for the intelligence of it's customers that they think this will sway them? (Don't answer that, I think we already know...).

Or that they hired the same people to walk by;...

[MorphingDragon]

I think you're both missing the point as to why I and a lot of other people buy Macs, which is that they don't have Windows on them! I work with Microsoft machines every day and the relief when I turn to my own computer and it "Just works" is sometimes indescribable (so I won't bother trying). That alone is worth the extra money to me...:)


Thank God for Microsoft, keeps me in work!

No not at all, I just open my mouth and insert foot too many times. Or go on too much. I managed to make a 300 word essay 567 words!!! (Thats besides the point) I work part time as a junior administrator, man Im glad to hear the Bong when I get home. Microsoft engineers make me want to take a hot needle and shove it in their eyes. Its the same at shcool, random malfunctions, email not working, CS3 has performed magic tricks again and disappeared, not detecting Flash Drives, I cant save my work because the Quotas stuffed up again...

Damn it I did it again.

[Wikinerd]

I think you're both missing the point as to why I and a lot of other people buy Macs, which is that they don't have Windows on them! I work with Microsoft machines every day and the relief when I turn to my own computer and it "Just works" is sometimes indescribable (so I won't bother trying). That alone is worth the extra money to me...:)



Thank God for Microsoft, keeps me in work! (Computer repairs at affordable prices!)

Ah... good. new members to join us at Ubuntu.com or hackint0sh.org

[binkennedy]

here you go: a new ALU Macbook, thet felt from about 1 m:



If it were the old plastic case, it would be two options: either it would break or you would see no damage at all... but now, that it is made out of aluminium, you have no other option, than bring it back to Apple Reseller and pray, that they will change it (of course you will have to pay about 25% of repair cost, if you even have some warranty - we don't have Apple Care here), or you have another option: an hammer, combined with patience and too many free time on your hands.

EDIT: changed the size of the images

I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that with any laptop...

Nice photos, by the way.

[MorphingDragon]

Ah... good. new members to join us at Ubuntu forums or hackint0sh.org

Ha! Youve got to be kidding.
Linux will never put step into the media for two reasons,
proprietary and patents. Also ubuntu is terrible, its not that user friendly, it just acts it. It doesnt show what linux is about. OpenSUSE/Xandros/PCLinuxOS/Mandriva is far more user firendly. Gentoo is far more powerful and Redhat is far more robust. And why would he go to hackintosh.org if he did the legal thing and bought a mac?

[Wikinerd]

Ha! Youve got to be kidding.
Linux will never put step into the media for two reasons,
proprietary and patents. Also ubuntu is terrible, its not that user friendly, it just acts it. It doesnt show what linux is about. OpenSUSE is far more user firendly. Gentoo is far more powerful and Redhat is far more robust. And why would he go to hackintosh.org if he did the legal thing and bought a mac?

IMHO,
OpenSUSE is ok. But I've always preferred Ubuntu because it's the one I'm familiar with.

Gentoo? Far too "ugly"... I'm not bothered with the tweaking to get the interface right.

Red hat? Isn't that discontinued a few years ago?

And hackintosh's legality is debatable.

[DMann]

I think you're both missing the point as to why I and a lot of other people buy Macs, which is that they don't have Windows on them! I work with Microsoft machines every day and the relief when I turn to my own computer and it "Just works" is sometimes indescribable (so I won't bother trying). That alone is worth the extra money to me...:)

Thank God for Microsoft, keeps me in work! (Computer repairs at affordable prices!)

Agreed. The money saved per month in avoiding downtime, and other headaches regarding viruses/spyware/adware protection more than justifies any extra cost.

[MorphingDragon]

IMHO,
OpenSUSE is ok. But I've always preferred Ubuntu because it's the one I'm familiar with.

Gentoo? Far too "ugly"... I'm not bothered with the tweaking to get the interface right.

Red hat? Isn't that discontinued a few years ago?

And hackintosh's legality is debatable.

1. The first sentence, isnt that the reason why Linux and Apple have trouble with market penetration. You're not helping it you're just repeating the cycle.

2. Isnt this a main point for linux, customiziability. If you just eat what cannocal gives you arent you just the same as Windows and Mac OSX Users?

3. Umm dude, what? RedHat? Where have you been. Try Fedora or RHEL, theyre also thinking of bringing back inbox software again.

4. It encourages piracy = illegal. Breaks Millenium Copyright Act = Illegal. Breaks Apple's EULA = Discouraged.

I dont hate Linux, its great for critical work but Im so sick of the Ubuntu Hype.

[insingertech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP0Y5Vt-XaY

[Scottgfx]

I don't have to drag and drop and have multiple windows open or hold the file over endless amounts of folders waiting for them to open, etc.

Go to the Finder's preferences and dial down the time before "Spring-Loaded" folders activate. Note the info below the slider: "Press Space Bar to open immediately". Try it, it works!

[rotta]

You can always try looking in "refurbished"..



...which is not available in my country....

[MartinH]

I'm not cool enough to be a pc person. :D

Dont you mean: "im not stupid enough to be a pc person" :)
it's not cool to be a pc person !! :p
:apple::apple::apple::apple: <3

[gordonrj]

:mad:absolutely get what you pay for....mac rules for home use!

[Wikinerd]

...which is not available in my country....

You sure? which country do you live in?

[miles01110]

At least the ads are nice for entertainment value. Nice use of reverse psychology by MS though; Windows users aren't cool enough to buy a Mac which is somehow supposed to be a shared identity ("not cool") ? Misery loves company I guess.

[DMann]

:mad:absolutely get what you pay for....mac rules for home use!

As for a majority of business use.

[PCMacUser]

The ad is legitimate. I can see nothing wrong with it.

Let's just say that I need a car. It has to have ABS brakes, driver and passenger airbags, and I only have $10000 to spend. I'm not going to try buying a 2009 Mercedes for that. Why even bother? A Toyota will be fine. The Mercedes might be a better car overall, but if it's more than I can afford, then it isn't worth considering.

[Scottgfx]

Wrong. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493 Vista Ultimate 64-bit, $179.

And you only need Vista Home Premium to equal Leopard. It even includes technologies that Leopard currently does not. For example, the technology to use the GPU in the way OpenCL will has already existed in Windows thanks to nvidia and ATI for over a year now ;) And Windows has been taking full advantage of the GPU for video playback for almost a decade now. Not half-assed HWMC and iDCT support like OS X.

Glowing user review from NewEgg:
"Other Thoughts: Worth the money if you can't afford a Mac"

Info from Microsoft's own user forums on buying OEM version:
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/genuinebenefits/thread/5d9d4860-eb4b-45b3-8a79-740b9dd7ce6b/

"OEM versions of Windows XP:

-- cannot upgrade over an existing Windows installation.
-- must be installed "clean" on a freshly reformatted drive or partition.
-- cannot be transferred to a different computer or if motherboard is upgraded.
-- the license cannot be sold or transferred to another user.
-- are not eligible for free Microsoft technical support.
-- any problems whatsoever with the installation CD or Product Key.
is not eligible for Microsoft support....you have to deal with the "seller".
-- cost less than "retail versions" due to the above limitations/risks.

Best Advice: Purchase a "Retail Version" of Windows XP! "

[Wikinerd]

1. The first sentence, isnt that the reason why Linux and Apple have trouble with market penetration. You're not helping it you're just repeating the cycle.

2. Isnt this a main point for linux, customiziability. If you just eat what cannocal gives you arent you just the same as Windows and Mac OSX Users?

3. Umm dude, what? RedHat? Where have you been. Try Fedora or RHEL, theyre also thinking of bringing back inbox software again.

4. It encourages piracy = illegal. Breaks Millenium Copyright Act = Illegal. Breaks Apple's EULA = Discouraged.

I dont hate Linux, its great for critical work but Im so sick of the Ubuntu Hype.

1. I'm not saying I'm not trying it though. I'm just more familiar to Ubuntu. I know how to set up a computer with Ubuntu. (No experience with the others...)

2. Yes, customizing is good, but if you have to do the whole thing it's bad. What I, and many other users, need is just a tweak here and there.

3. If I'm correct, Red Hat Linux is discontinued for Red Hat Enterprise....

4. There's something called EFI-X... or you can go v8, emulate efi, and use "vanilla" discs. And slap an Apple sticker on and you can argue that you're following the EULA... (notice it says "Apple-labeled computer".)

The ad is legitimate. I can see nothing wrong with it.

Let's just say that I need a car. It has to have ABS brakes, driver and passenger airbags, and I only have $10000 to spend. I'm not going to try buying a 2009 Mercedes for that. Why even bother? A Toyota will be fine. The Mercedes might be a better car overall, but if it's more than I can afford, then it isn't worth considering.

First, there has been more than enough car analogies in the last 2122 posts. We've had it.

Second, the ad is sometimes misleading.. (read the first few pages of this thread.)

[Scottgfx]

...For example, the technology to use the GPU in the way OpenCL will has already existed in Windows thanks to nvidia and ATI for over a year now ;) And Windows has been taking full advantage of the GPU for video playback for almost a decade now. Not half-assed HWMC and iDCT support like OS X.

nVidia and ATI each have their own code for utilizing their GPUs, which dooms it from reaching wide acceptance. Apple is providing a unified, proper API that will actually bring GPU co-processing into mainstream apps, and not just a video player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL

I seem to recall the Mac using 24bit overlays for cursors before Windows. That's utilizing GPU hardware for you!

[rotta]

You sure? which country do you live in?


...Norway, on the north of Europe...

[DMann]

The ad is legitimate. I can see nothing wrong with it.

Let's just say that I need a car. It has to have ABS brakes, driver and passenger airbags, and I only have $10000 to spend. I'm not going to try buying a 2009 Mercedes for that. Why even bother? A Toyota will be fine. The Mercedes might be a better car overall, but if it's more than I can afford, then it isn't worth considering.

However, for the same price, I'd rather purchase a used 2005 Mercedes than a 2009 Toyota for the safety factor, supreme handling, spacious interior, and overall superior performance. When it comes to purchasing a PC, one actually will wind up spending an extra premium anyway in terms of lost productivity due to downtime, virus vigilance, tech support, etc. This had been an expensive venture in the past, and an expenditure I'd rather not afford anymore.

[Wikinerd]

...Norway, on the north of Europe...

Ah. that's rather unfortunate for you... (Believe me, that was the first Apple online store that I've seen that lacks a refurbished section...)

[MorphingDragon]

1. I'm not saying I'm not trying it though. I'm just more familiar to Ubuntu. I know how to set up a computer with Ubuntu. (No experience with the others...)

2. Yes, customizing is good, but if you have to do the whole thing it's bad. What I, and many other users, need is just a tweak here and there.

3. If I'm correct, Red Hat Linux is discontinued for Red Hat Enterprise....

4. There's something called EFI-X... or you can go v8, emulate efi, and use "vanilla" discs. And slap an Apple sticker on and you can argue that you're following the EULA... (notice it says "Apple-labeled computer".)

Thats the thing, you dont have to do the whole thing. The only thing ubuntu has is that theyve exposed the Gnome Control Panel, Added envy which is still worse than metadata packages and changed from the default tango interface. Portege builds the things for you even video card drivers.

Red Hat Distros is a generalised term used for distros based on RPMs.

In the EULA its used as a verb, not a description. Apple must directly put the sticker on that PC to be valid. Also phystar originally did that and phailed. EFi Hacking/Workarounds is still against the Millenium Copyright Act.

[Wikinerd]

Thats the thing, you dont have to do the whole thing. The only thing ubuntu has is that theyve exposed the Gnome Control Panel, Added envy which is still worse than metadata packages and changed from the default tango interface.

Problem being that I lack any in-depth knowledge of anything other than ubuntu... But imho the Gnome Control Panel is quite good...

Red Hat Distros is a generalised term used for distros based on RPMs.

Noob here. mind clarifying?

In the EULA its used as a verb, not a description. Apple must directly put the sticker on that PC to be valid. Also phystar originally did that and phailed. EFi Hacking is still against the Millenium Copyright Act.

It's called being "ambiguous"... They can take on different meanings. That's the point of having courts... to decide which interpretation of the law to abide to...

By the way according to EFI-X the EFI is made totally independent of Apple code... and if I'm correct the v8 code came from "clean room" reverse engineering. -- theoretically legal.

[MorphingDragon]

Problem being that I lack any in-depth knowledge of anything other than ubuntu... But imho the Gnome Control Panel is quite good...



Noob here. mind clarifying?



It's called being "ambiguous"... They can take on different meanings. That's the point of having courts... to decide which interpretation of the law to abide to...

It pales compared to Yast, Ever tried setting up a network thorugh the Gnome Panel

This was my point before, A Red Hat Distro is a general term used for a system that uses Red Hat's Package System RPM. Although they make their own Linux Distros other distros are included under this term.

"2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use
or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one
computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time."

See that there are hyphons? Its a verb.
Reverse engineering is still hacking.

[MH01]

Because Wii is a thinking-man's console and XB360/PS3 are gamers (and less educated people's generally) consoles. Mac is a thinking person's computer and PC is a gamers rig or net appliance. Plus, The Wii is white and Apple did have a white fixation for a quite a while until just recently.

Owww man that made me laugh, please tell me your not being serious. Wii has the simplest games in the world on it, most aimed at kids. Do you know what the Wii is???? Most likely console to be bought by a working professional is the PS3 as it is also a entertainment centre, Most sought after console by kids is the Wii. They are all gaming consoles, Wii with the least potential to do anything else....it just games.

[MorphingDragon]

Owww man that made me laugh, please tell me your not being serious. Wii has the simplest games in the world on it, most aimed at kids. Do you know what the Wii is???? Most likely console to be bought by a working professional is the PS3 as it is also a entertainment centre, Most sought after console by kids is the Wii. They are all gaming consoles, Wii with the least potential to do anything else....it just games.

My Thoughts Exactly, Why should I skimp out on a good story telling game just so I can have wavey wavey pointy pointy. Yes I did own a Wii. Now I have a PS3, JapanStudio Games will blow your mind.

[MH01]

However, for the same price, I'd rather purchase a used 2005 Mercedes than a 2009 Toyota for the safety factor, supreme handling, spacious interior, and overall superior performance. When it comes to purchasing a PC, one actually will wind up spending an extra premium anyway in terms of lost productivity due to downtime, virus vigilance, tech support, etc. This had been an expensive venture in the past, and an expenditure I'd rather not afford anymore.

You buying that 2005 Merc stolen for $10K??? Pass me the details i want in....

[dwl017]

85 pages this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 85 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

[phobic99]

Anyone want to buy a laptop today?

http://www.woot.com/
(This one has better specs than the one in the ad however).

[Beerfloat]

all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look blah blah

Did you really think that this post of yours was so clever that you had to put it up again? :o

[dazzer21]

OK - here's the bottom line.

The cheaper PC laptop is ALWAYS financially going to be a better prospect for you than the more expensive Mac laptop equivalent. Period!

Unless, of course, you're of the opinion that the more expensive Mac offers better prospects for you than the cheaper PC laptop.

Either way, I'm reading this thread and can't believe the misplaced passion that's being displayed here. This is Mac AND PC fanboy-ism if the highest standard! I can't be bothered to get into the bickering that's going on here but for God's sake - GROW UP, PEOPLE!

Either way, Macs are better...
:D

[-hh]

Argh! Self pity?

Yes, because your story of woe keeps changing.

For example:

Seriously, the only one I pity a little is my girlfriend since she's the one who uses the machine these days.

Oh, so the iMac is running again?

Since its running maybe you can ask your Girlfriend to FINALLY get those all-so-important NDA-protected files off the computer.

But wait...did she also sign that NDA? Afterall, you said that she's been using it for months after the project - - why didn't you bother to scrub the machine before you gave it to her?


The only reason why I had to go over the story again is that some dork accused me of making it up.

FWIW, I don't believe that you made it up: I just see many elements of the story that simply don't make any sense to blame on the original product supplier. At some point, you have to start to take responsibility for your actions, instead of being the perennial victim that we're supposed to feel sorry for.

I'm sorry that you had original teething problems with Leopard. Of course, all early adopters always do ... technology and vendor independent ... and anyone who has worked for any reasonable period of time with technology knows that and thus, doesn't put mission critical work on the untested and unproven: this is basic business risk management.

Similarly, we also know that people aren't happy when change is forced upon them, which is what your client did to you. You were handed lemons but chose to not make lemon-aid...instead, you resented receiving lemons because your favored flavor of fruit happens to be the laraha.


(PS - Pulling out the HDD was obviously my first thought, but the Dell dude who was here a while ago, and incidentally used to do Apple repairs back in the beige days", said that a lot of people who do that on alu iMacs damage the screen, so... no thanks)

Yet if the 'Dell guy' who was here just mentioned this, how is it that you somehow knew this information a half year earlier?

Bottom line is that since you said that your girlfriend is using it, that really suggests that the machine is running. Thus, you should stop surfing macrumors this instant and go take 10 minutes to get your NDA data off that iMac so that you can finally get whatever is supposedly wrong with it fixed.

So stop whining and go take care of it.

-hh

[jbembe]

it's a good ad, hit 'em where it hurts...

i think plenty of people see computers the way they are presented in this ad, so it will register with them. not everyone knows or even cares what gigahardbitdrive terminology means, they just want a good looking cheap computer. PC for the masses.

[lftrghtparadigm]

Did you really think that this post of yours was so clever that you had to put it up again? :o


As long as the difference between Windows/OSX remains as is, garbage/usable, then I will continue to happily pay the apple tax as you childishly describe it

[polaris20]

85 pages this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 85 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

Well thank God you're here to decide what the bottom line is!

And btw you forgot to mention all the Windows fanboys that enjoy trolling a Mac forum; they deserve special mention.

The reality for me is I can do my job on any of the 3 platforms and be fine with it (well not Vista; 7 or XP please) and I find the constant cry of "fanboy!" from either side amusing.

Even if I'd run Linux or Win7 as my main system, I'd still be looking for a well built system, which would be a Thinkpad, not some pos HP from Best Buy.

The target of this ad are people on a budget, not someone who spent $2000 on a MBP (me) or $1800 on a Thinkpad T61p (also me).

[pprior]

Excellent ad. The seinfeld ones were freakishly bad, but these hit home especially in today's environment.

I'm solidly a mac user, having used PCs for 20 years before switching 2 years ago. However there is no doubt that pricing is a sticking point.

Give MS credit where it's due - ad is very well done.

[lucasmonger]

My company buys a lot of Dells, and it continues to amaze me how what the engineers and managers end up getting costs $2000-2700 when you're done configuring it. Plus, our incredible corporate discounts and volume buying power make it so we end up paying more for the machine than you can get yourself on the web. Most of the time, what the individuals configure ends up being close to a MacBook Pro, give or take a few features. I like how Macs are generally configured with everything at the high end, so you don't accidentally buy a suboptimal components or skimp on features that you add later with more cards.

The corporate "standard" desktop (7 models to choose from) and laptop machines (12 models to choose from) can't come anywhere close to the lowest prices you can find out there. Supposedly, we're saving on IT costs by having everyone with similar machines where parts are readily replaceable and interchangeable, but the IT folks are struggling horrifically with the large number of replacement models (PCs change every few weeks) where a single boot image just doesn't work with all the necessary drivers. In my experience, when someone gets a new PC, the IT guy is in their office for about a week fiddling with things to get everything working. Again, I just don't see the long term cost benefit having owned both.

[GUNcrazy12]

You get what you pay for.

true that. If you buy anything with windows, you will get a piece of ****.
End of story. and for the dude that said this, if they dont care about speed, resolution, or those other things, then go live in a hole.
And with the cost of virus software, other crap like that, the repair of the computer, and the data loss (cuz pieces of ***** tend to be pieces of *****), you will end up paying about $2000.
Suck my balls Mr. Garrison.

[stewy]

I don't really see how these ads are going to be effective... it's no secret that macs cost more...

this will only make a difference to parents who are buying a laptop for their kids... I can hear them now "I'm not spending $1399 when I can get the same thing for $699"

I used to work at sears, most parents can't distinguish between an ipod and any $29 crap mp3 player. Same thing applies here.

[lftrghtparadigm]

Just the idea of having to run anti-virus software, a CPU-eating monster, and the definitive result from not using it, is reason enough for me never to run Windows again. Ever. Of any build. 7? Who cares? New version of Norton and McAfree will be right along with it.

Security and Stability, first.

..then whatever else you want.

[janstett]

- The great thing about a Macintosh is you get more than what you wanted. You get everything you would ever need as a standard consumer.
Piece-of-Crap

Except Blu-Ray (hardware -or- software). Or a card reader. Or in some cases a removable battery. Or a fingerprint reader. Or in some cases firewire. Or non-glossy screens. Or built-in WLAN. Or common video out like VGA, DVI without having to buy a p-i-t-a separate adapter that doesn't come with it. Or HDMI under any circumstances. Or mulitchannel sound cards. Or a better resolution display (e.g. my $2500 MacBook Pro has a 1440x900 display, why can't I get 1680x1050 like I can on every other 15" notebook).

Just sayin. My everyday machine is a unibody 15" MacBook Pro, but I could have gotten a machine at half the price that is equally (or better) spec'ed out. And the MacBooks aren't exactly swiss army knives loaded with every conceivable feature. Stop pretending it is because it shows you are a fanboi.

[lftrghtparadigm]

My company buys a lot of Dells, and it continues to amaze me how what the engineers and managers end up getting costs $2000-2700 when you're done configuring it. Plus, our incredible corporate discounts and volume buying power make it so we end up paying more for the machine than you can get yourself on the web. Most of the time, what the individuals configure ends up being close to a MacBook Pro, give or take a few features. I like how Macs are generally configured with everything at the high end, so you don't accidentally buy a suboptimal components or skimp on features that you add later with more cards.

The corporate "standard" desktop (7 models to choose from) and laptop machines (12 models to choose from) can't come anywhere close to the lowest prices you can find out there. Supposedly, we're saving on IT costs by having everyone with similar machines where parts are readily replaceable and interchangeable, but the IT folks are struggling horrifically with the large number of replacement models (PCs change every few weeks) where a single boot image just doesn't work with all the necessary drivers. In my experience, when someone gets a new PC, the IT guy is in their office for about a week fiddling with things to get everything working. Again, I just don't see the long term cost benefit having owned both.

In reality, there are zero long term cost benefit of buying any computer. Period.

Buy what works, or don't buy. Its all a waste of money anyway.

[cg0def]

thats more than i get on my macbook pro :(

Get a new battery and stop complaining!

[polaris20]

true that. If you buy anything with windows, you will get a piece of *****.
End of story. and for the dude that said this, if they dont care about speed, resolution, or those other things, then go live in a hole.
And with the cost of virus software, other crap like that, the repair of the computer, and the data loss (cuz pieces of ***** tend to be pieces of *****), you will end up paying about $2000.
Suck my balls Mr. Garrison.

Totally disagree. Lenovo Thinkpads, especially the T series most comparable to Apple laptops, are built very well. Through 64-bit Ubuntu on there and it is one hell of a machine. No AV or anti-spyware required.

[lftrghtparadigm]

Except Blu-Ray (hardware -or- software). Or a card reader. Or in some cases a removable battery. Or a fingerprint reader. Or in some cases firewire. Or non-glossy screens. Or built-in WLAN. Or common video out like VGA, DVI without having to buy a p-i-t-a separate adapter that doesn't come with it. Or HDMI under any circumstances. Or mulitchannel sound cards.

Just sayin. My everyday machine is a unibody 15" MacBook Pro, but I could have gotten a machine at half the price that is equally (or better) spec'ed out. And the MacBooks aren't exactly swiss army knives loaded with every conceivable feature. Stop pretending it is because it shows you are a fanboi.

Oh well. Too bad. So sad. Nobody is pretending, the Macs have everything anyone could want. Fingerprint reader? No thanks Big Brother. Blue Ray? To watch on what size laptop screen? LOL get real.

Awwww adapters? GMFB

HDMI? You mean for the incredible resolution you receive when using a Mac out to a Television? Yeaaah, THATS worth it......:confused:

Think about the real world before you decide whats "missing" from the Mac. In reality, PC's have every useless, or blown-out-of-proportion option under the sun.

[awmazz]

85 pages this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax

Using a slogan created by Microsoft's advertising agency - 'Apple Tax' - as if it's a common and legitimate term tells me exactly who has the sponge-like consumer brain of a fan which easily absorbs the marketing messages a corporation wants them to adopt as their own thoughts. Especially ironic when they are labeling others as being such.

So I've changed my mind about the MS ad being atrociously bad - it's absolutely brilliant for its target audience. MS could do even crappier ads and they'd still be brilliant. They certainly know their market.

PS. For all those who have expressed positive comments about the ad in regards to hopes that it will force Apple to lower its prices - keep hoping, it ain't gonna happen. So it's a very bad ad if that's the sole judging criteria. Apple has a very successful business/marketing model, and 'cheap' is not a part of that model.

[cg0def]

Excellent ad. The seinfeld ones were freakishly bad, but these hit home especially in today's environment.

I'm solidly a mac user, having used PCs for 20 years before switching 2 years ago. However there is no doubt that pricing is a sticking point.

Give MS credit where it's due - ad is very well done.

Well it's nice to see that MS finally sees the threat that Apple is posing but dude this is a very weak attempt. If someone tells you that they'll give you a free computer as long as it's under $1000 would you take it? So much for the whole regular people choose Windows point. And why would you put the phrase I'm not cool enough to be a mac person anyway? It's not a complement. Heck people by tennis shoes for $150 a pair because they are COOL!

Anyway even the BB employees that were in the video though the whole thing was a little over the top and kinda stupid.

[MWPULSE]

85 pages?? really i love Mac osx and apple. but 85 pages justifying why its better?? humm thats extreme, it was on 35 pages on thursday thats 3 days and 50 pages.. quiiiite alot.. you said your piece, justified as to why you love your PC/Mac.. i still prefer mac, but i will just mutter that else its gonna be another 20 pages! heh

Good postings peoples :-)

PTP

(i would just like to point out, im not actually being sarcastic in this statement)

[StupendousMan]

Just the idea of having to run anti-virus software, a CPU-eating monster, and the definitive result from not using it, is reason enough for me never to run Windows again. Ever. Of any build. 7? Who cares? New version of Norton and McAfree will be right along with it.

Security and Stability, first.

..then whatever else you want.

Ah, the common Mac-fanboy misconceptions regarding Windows and it's need for an antivirus.

1. The best antivirus software around is hardly a CPU-eating monster. In fact, its even free.
2. With enough common sense, you avoid a considerable amount of viruses, even without anti-virus software.

As security is one of your main points for rejecting Windows, it's pretty marvellous how one free, low-bloat and efficient software solves the problem.

I love how you have a false sense of security though. A virus for OS X is a long time coming, and the threat isn't just a joke. Apple agreed, don't bother them about it:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/12/01/apple_now_encourages_antivirus_use_for_mac_os_x.html

[brosmooth]

its not just the hardware that your paying more for, its also the apple care and support that comes with everyone. Just about every time something goes wrong call up good ol apple and they usually find a solution that works with you. And if there's a software problem they can find a solution and come out with a patch in little time, where Microsoft cant do that as easily.

please don't get me wrong im not one of these brainwashed fanboys, i used to have windows xp and vista, and wanted to switch to a mac because it just makes more sense and i was willing to pay more because i get more. I also have xp with bootcamp on my macbook right now too...

also if your arguing that windows OS is similar or just as good as os x then i bet the closest you've come to using it is the pics on the internet, actually try both and make you own opinion based on your experience and not pre judged or stereotypical things.

[AidenShaw]

Except Blu-Ray (hardware -or- software). Or a card reader. Or in some cases a removable battery. Or a fingerprint reader. Or in some cases firewire. Or non-glossy screens. Or built-in WLAN. Or common video out like VGA, DVI without having to buy a p-i-t-a separate adapter that doesn't come with it. Or HDMI under any circumstances. Or mulitchannel sound cards.

eSATA is another big one. (By the way, I think that you meant "built-in WWAN (3G)", not "built-in WLAN (WiFi)".)


Nobody is pretending, the Macs have everything anyone could want.

But we're saying that Apple's *don't* have "everything that anyone could want".


Fingerprint reader? No thanks Big Brother.

Big brother? Fingerprint readers are wonderful. You can set your screensaver to a short interval with password protection - and if locks a quick swipe and you're back. I love them.


Blue Ray? To watch on what size laptop screen? LOL get real.

You're missing the point of Blu-ray support in a laptop. It isn't so that you get the optimum 1080p experience - you want Blu-ray support so that you can watch your BD discs on your laptop, without having to also buy the DVD or do something probably illegal.

And, since a DVD is basically 640x480 pixels (NTSC) - in fact a downscaled BD *does* look a lot better than an upscaled DVD.


HDMI? You mean for the incredible resolution you receive when using a Mac out to a Television?

You must be confusing HDMI with composite or S-video. An HDMI connection is a pure digital video connector, basically equivalent to DVI+sound.

An HDMI connection to a flat panel screen is pixel perfect - the picture is as good as on a monitor (but a lot larger than the laptop screen or most monitors).


On a more serious note people who can only afford $1000 for a computer are not really the market to go after. At best they will only replace their computer every 5 years and already have a good enough PC.

It's also the college freshmen class every year. A lot of families need to get laptops for school kids, and $700 vs $2800 is a big deal.

[ces1965]

85 pages this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 85 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

1. It's not just to "run OS X". It's, among other things, also to have a computer where the hardware, OS and many of the key apps (including iLife) come from one company, which reduces technical issues and makes support easier and more likely to succeed.

2. The mac premium is not "huge" if you were planning on buying a well equipped PC of the types sold by apple - the difference is a few hundred dollars at most for apples-to-apples comparison machines. Sometimes, usually at the introduction point of the new mac, the mac is actually cheaper. Where there's a difference of a few hundred dollars, it is easily justified given the poor support and satisfaction ratings for windows PCs compared to Macs (see almost every survey from a reputable source). Maybe that's not the case if you are a geek and can troubleshoot windows, but that's not most people. The mac premium, is however, quite large if you want certain types of computers apple doesn't sell. I.e, if you want a $700 laptop with a low-resolution 17 inch screen. Then you would have to buy at least a macbook pro 15 inch, which is a lot more money. It's definitely true, the mac premium is very large if apple doesn't make the kind of machine you want.

3. Apple's premium is not excessive, given that it is only making a reasonable margin. How little profit do you expect apple to make, and still innovate, support the product, etc.? Then compare apple's margin on its machines to Microsoft's profit margin on windows and office, and you see where the real ripoff is. They have something like 80 percent margins on windows and office. The Microsoft Tax is the real rape, yet you have no issue with that. Why?

[MH01]

Oh well. Too bad. So sad. Nobody is pretending, the Macs have everything anyone could want. Fingerprint reader? No thanks Big Brother. Blue Ray? To watch on what size laptop screen? LOL get real.

Awwww adapters? GMFB

HDMI? You mean for the incredible resolution you receive when using a Mac out to a Television? Yeaaah, THATS worth it......:confused:

Think about the real world before you decide whats "missing" from the Mac. In reality, PC's have every useless, or blown-out-of-proportion option under the sun.

Blue ray + HDMI and a 40" LCD...... your right, that would never work!!!!
Though as soon as blue ray does come to macs, all the fanbois will be going on about how fantastic macs are cause they have Blue ray....

Mini display port has to be the most useless interface going around at the moment. If your going to include one interface, make the damn thing useful.

[MacinDoc]

It's also the college freshmen class every year. A lot of families need to get laptops for school kids, and $700 vs $2800 is a big deal.
Why would you ruin a perfectly thoughtful post by adding garbage like this? Who makes a $700 laptop that is comparable to a $2800 MBP?

[Brunos82]

Bottom line is when you compare full specs you cannot get the equivalent of a 17 macbook pro in a PC for less than 1,000 other than the screen size itself.

I used to have a Sony Vaio or should I say Sony Virus.

I used to own a DeLL who also got a virus. Although I did like the Dell.

So I switched to a mac and have been happy ever since.

Its much easier for me. Graphics quality is amazing. The machine feels solid and durable vs. cheap plastic and flemsy. The processor is 2.4GHz. Built in webcam that is very high quality. Built in bluetooth. And my wifi works anywhere...unlike my old vaio.

Its unique. It was affordable. I couldn't get the one I wanted right away so I put aside some money until I could afford it.

Apple customer support is great.

[bruinsrme]

But were saying that Apple's *don't* have "everything that anyone could want".

Apple did nt have what I wanted in a laptop hence the Dell I am typing on. I honestly thought the apple store associate was kidding when he told me the MBP lacked the things that were important to me. But yes it is a damn nice looking machine.
Big brother? Fingerprint readers are wonderful. You can set your screensaver to a short interval with password protection - and if locks a quick swipe and you're back. I love them.

OMG can be anymore convenient logging in.



You're missing the point of Blu-ray support in a laptop. It isn't so that you get the optimum 1080p experience - you want Blu-ray support so that you can watch your BD discs on your laptop, without having to also buy the DVD or do something probably illegal.

Hmmm i can burn blu-ray for back ups and whatever else and i can take my blu-ray with my $3 cable quick plug in and we are watching 1080p

And, since a DVD is basically 640x480 pixels (NTSC) - in fact a downscaled BD *does* look a lot better than an upscaled DVD.

Agreed




It's also the college freshmen class every year. A lot of families need to get laptops for school kids, and $700 vs $2800 is a big deal.

Yes in deed. Unfortunately my son needed a little more than the $700 computer. But the $800 laptop is more than enough for the Mrs., that includes 3 yr full in home warranty service.

[nitrofurano]

All the answers on this post only tell how huge opportunity manufacturers are loosing on not distributing GNU-Linux (such as Ubuntu) as OEM - These machines will start coming with a REAL operating system (not only some eeepc or everex-gpc), and Apple (with MacOS-X) will have a true competition.

Known brand PC manufacturers should show us their courage on stop selling their hardware with ms-Windows crappy OEM! What a challenge, isn't it?

[Digitalclips]

I hope for their sakes that anyone that falls for this con and 'saves' money buying a cheap PC keeps it and doesn't buy anything else. They will need the 'savings' to pay the geek to get it going several times before they ditch it and buy another 'cheap' PC ... and so the cycle goes for the average PC user ... over and over and over again.

Of course the trolls out in force in defense of the ads are not really buying into the concept as such, they simply don't want to see an end to the gravy train. Their endless supply of easy money charging hundreds of dollars to get a PC going that froze up due to a lock up in the anti-virus software or an M$ update done twice over etc. makes M$ the Golden Goose to them.

[bruinsrme]

Blue ray + HDMI and a 40" LCD...... your right, that would never work!!!!
Though as soon as blue ray does come to macs, all the fanbois will be going on about how fantastic macs are cause they have Blue ray....

Mini display port has to be the most useless interface going around at the moment. If your going to include one interface, make the damn thing useful.

When do you think blu-ray is coming to apple? PC are on the 2nd and 3rd generation incorporating blu-ray

Seems like they are taking a completely different route by having to go through itunes.

[AidenShaw]

Using a slogan created by Microsoft's advertising agency - 'Apple Tax' - as if it's a common and legitimate term....

Actually, it is a common and legitimate term, and its use long predates the CP+B ad campaign.

To wit:

http://www.applematters.com/article/the-truth-about-the-apple-tax1/

The Truth about the “Apple Tax”
by Chris Seibold
Jun 20, 2006

[ericinboston]

You did say that Macs are not so useful (highlighted in red), and only for looks (highlighted in green).This, I assume, means that current Mac users have have paid for pricey computers (highlighted in purple) that are for looks and are not really "functional" and maybe "useless". Then you say about not "judging. To each his own. [sic]"(in bold)

Oh, and btw I think the post about ads earlier about Microsoft being misleading and being offended by it is about how Microsoft is not really comparing "apples to apples". (as per your reply highlighted in blue)

I guess I'm being clear enough?


Dude...where are you reading these subliminal comments?! :)

1)My line about Giselle is about how Apple ran an ad with a beautiful woman (Giselle) to represent a Mac-based video project while the PC based video project was an ugly guy in drag.

2)My point about using a car is simply that...a car is used to get you from point A to B and typically try to give you reasonable amount of comfort...therefore, buying a high priced sports car isn't always the obvious choice for everyone. I'm not going to spend a day writing about this comment as nobody likes the car references.

3)The rest of your post is complete non-sense...I have absolutely NO IDEA what you are trying to convey. I literally have no idea where you came up with your replies to me.

[Beerfloat]

Actually, it is a common and legitimate term, and it's use long predates the CP+B ad campaign.

To wit:

Yeah I'd heard it before, like the more stablished Microsoft Tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft), which has been dated back to at least 1998, if not to the eighties.

[j-a-x]

They forgot to mention that the cheaper computer has to run WINDOWS. That's a major flaw in my opinion. :)

[awmazz]

Actually, it is a common and legitimate term, and it's use long predates the CP+B ad campaign.

To wit:

Quote:
http://www.applematters.com/article/...he-apple-tax1/

The Truth about the “Apple Tax”
by Chris Seibold
Jun 20, 2006

If you hadn't quoted the title, I would have clicked the link. As it is, it confirms my point without having to. Common terms are not written in inverted commas.

[bruinsrme]

I hope for their sakes that anyone that falls for this con and 'saves' money buying a cheap PC keeps it and doesn't buy anything else. They will need the 'savings' to pay the geek to get it going several times before they ditch it and buy another 'cheap' PC ... and so the cycle goes for the average PC user ... over and over and over again.

Of course the trolls out in force in defense of the ads are not really buying into the concept as such, they simply don't want to see an end to the gravy train. Their endless supply of easy money charging hundreds of dollars to get a PC going that froze up due to a lock up in the anti-virus software or an M$ update done twice over etc. makes M$ the Golden Goose to them.

Is this just more FUD or is there any proof to this claim. Sounds to me like more ofthe same FUD, Antivirus, pop up windows and whatever else. But maybe that is why crossover vehicles are so common at Bestbuy, sothey can lug their PCs for the geek squad to fix.

updates more than once? being new to the site it seems Apple is having a heck of a time with the Nvidia video drivers with now several updates being issued.

[bedifferent]

Which also makes me wonder,
What are Windows Camp people doing on an Apple rumour site?


Anuba, care to chime in here? (and please don't give me the same song and dance about dissenting opinions and Mac "fanboy's" getting upset :rolleyes:). As I have stated numerous times, I use and like both Windows and Mac OS X systems. However, I am not posting baiting and insulting comments on a fan based site for a product I "claim" to use but seem to detest more than "fanboy's". Your arguments contradict themselves, and if we have to read about your iMac one more time, I'll personally fly to your small town south of Stockholm and get it repaired/replaced myself.

While we are on the topic, which is it? First you lived in Stockholm, then you stated you live 60 miles south of Stockholm. You stated you did not have a warranty for your iMac, then you stated you HAVE APP but as your "IT guy" never informed you properly you couldn't use it cause you never activated it. Yet when informed it is automatically activated when purchased, Apple refused service. Then your comment is that AppleCare is not the same in the EU and they do not send shipping packages, when in fact they certainly do send packing for repairs. Then it was... I can't keep up with your inaccuracies.

[welshy1812]

I just priced a 17" Dell XPS laptop against a 17" MacBook Pro.

Dell came out at £2059.01
MBP came out at £1998.99

I'm not going into this too deeply but the Dell has an inferior CPU and RAM but may have a slight advantage in the GPU dept as it has a 1GB nVidia SLI Dual GeForce 9800GT graphics card (not sure if the MBP 600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory is better ?)

I added a faster HDD and a remote to the MBP and a better CPU and the Vista Ultimate OS to the Dell which to me makes them pretty even in the hardware comparison.

Of the course the Dell does have an extra USB port and weighs a hefty 4.81kg !

You make your own decision, Apple competes with many laptop manufacturers and they may not be to everyones tastes or wallets, but I personally find them to be a superior product.

[bedifferent]

Yes, because your story of woe keeps changing.

For example:



Oh, so the iMac is running again?

Since its running maybe you can ask your Girlfriend to FINALLY get those all-so-important NDA-protected files off the computer.

But wait...did she also sign that NDA? Afterall, you said that she's been using it for months after the project - - why didn't you bother to scrub the machine before you gave it to her?




FWIW, I don't believe that you made it up: I just see many elements of the story that simply don't make any sense to blame on the original product supplier. At some point, you have to start to take responsibility for your actions, instead of being the perennial victim that we're supposed to feel sorry for.

So stop whining and go take care of it.

-hh

lmao I suppose I am "that dork". Anuba seems to embellish a lot of his "information". My statement was that his comments contradict themselves and as such I questioned their validity.

Why is this guy on MacRumors? Anuba all but admitted his disdain for Apple products, yet he has been posting regularly on MacRumors since 2005??? Is he a sadomasochist? :rolleyes:

[StupendousMan]

What are Windows Camp people doing on an Apple rumour site?

The fact that I actually use Linux aside, that's quite a tough question. Regardless, I'll take a crack at it: To discuss Apple-related topics? Is that enough?

[edit]
Also, if I were to say go to talk about Apple on a Windows-biased forum, the replies would not be less biased and opinionated as those found on this site, and I'm not interested in [discussing] my OS preference (which the people at MacRumors seems to enjoy quite well, deducable even from my week lurking)

[Wikinerd]

It pales compared to Yast, Ever tried setting up a network thorugh the Gnome Panel

This was my point before, A Red Hat Distro is a general term used for a system that uses Red Hat's Package System RPM. Although they make their own Linux Distros other distros are included under this term.

"2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use
or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one
computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time."

See that there are hyphons? Its a verb.
Reverse engineering is still hacking.

It's "non-Apple-labeled" doesn't mean it can't mean "non Apple-logo labeled"...

And reverse engineering is a grey area that can be argued to be legal.

[BlizzardBomb]

I just priced a 17" Dell XPS laptop against a 17" MacBook Pro.

Dell came out at £2059.01
MBP came out at £1998.99

I'm not going into this too deeply but the Dell has an inferior CPU and RAM but may have a slight advantage in the GPU dept as it has a 1GB nVidia SLI Dual GeForce 9800GT graphics card (not sure if the MBP 600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory is better ?)

I added a faster HDD and a remote to the MBP and a better CPU and the Vista Ultimate OS to the Dell which to me makes them pretty even in the hardware comparison.

Of the course the Dell does have an extra USB port and weighs a hefty 4.81kg !

You make your own decision, Apple competes with many laptop manufacturers and they may not be to everyones tastes or wallets, but I personally find them to be a superior product.

Bad comparison. With the 17" Dell you're effectively getting 2 superior graphics cards and at that price I'm pretty sure a Blu-ray player as well as more RAM. However, I wouldn't consider the XPS M1730 a laptop, more a desktop replacement. The 17" MBP is on the cusp of what is portable.

A fairer comparison would probably be the Studio 17, which is about 500g heavier, but costs a great deal less for almost the same specs.

[Baffles]

Haha, you guys seriously are praising Apple for LCD Panel quality? They have some of the worst LCDs I've seen. I went through 5 MBPs looking for a panel that wasn't so uneven it gave me a headache.

Oh, and that HP has a way better keyboard.

I agree with StupendousMan. I like OS X. I hate Apple as a company and their new notebooks. Most of their crap is overpriced. I bought my MBP for the battery life and the OS, and that is all. The difference between most of you guys and those of us like StupendousMan and I is that we aren't fanboys and can look at the issue subjectively, instead of drinking the kool aid and holding Apple as the best company in the world.

[Edwin the Elder]

I you think price is not important check this out:

Apple US Mac Sales Down 16%, Windows PC Sales up 22%

http://www.osnews.com/story/21148/Apple_US_Mac_Sales_Down_16_Windows_PC_Sales_up_22_

Given that Apple will not cut its margins, I think we're headed for one of 2 scenarios:

1. Mac share of the market falls to 2-3% - affluent, die hard Mac fans and the professionals;
2. Apple sells off the computer business to focus on iPods, the iPhone and perhaps a tablet netbook.

If you think you're not overpaying for a Mac check out the profit margins on a Mac vs. a PC.

That fat margin is of no value to the consumer - only to Appple shareholders.

[bedifferent]

Haha, you guys seriously are praising Apple for LCD Panel quality? They have some of the worst LCDs I've seen. I went through 5 MBPs looking for a panel that wasn't so uneven it gave me a headache.

Oh, and that HP has a way better keyboard.

I agree with StupendousMan. I like OS X. I hate Apple as a company and their new notebooks. Most of their crap is overpriced. I bought my MBP for the battery life and the OS, and that is all. The difference between most of you guys and those of us like StupendousMan and I is that we aren't fanboys and can look at the issue subjectively, instead of drinking the kool aid and holding Apple as the best company in the world.

Quad Core PC Desktop (runs OS X), Gateway Laptop, several servers, buying MBP soon!

I'm "baffled" by this... :confused:

[Anuba]

Oh, so the iMac is running again?
Wow, I must have touched a nerve or something. I post a simple story about a crappy Mac and you guys start the Spanish Inquisition. So that's how it works, eh? If a guy has a horror story about a Mac that can actually be verified (all the issues I had with the Leopard are known problems), gang up together and spread FUD about *him*. Macheads... knives out since 1984. :rolleyes:

Fine, here's the chronology (please don't complain about "whining" -- you asked):

December 07: Bought an iMac that I used at a client's office until May 08, when I brought it home and put it in my living room. Created a user account for my gf. Retired the old 2002 Dell PC laptop she had been using. May 08-January 09: iMac still sitting in our living room. Gf using it daily, myself using it sporadically. January 09: iMac breaks down. After calling AppleCare I stick it in its box and put it away for repairs at some unknown time in the future, and dust off the old PC for my gf so that she wouldn't be computerless for X amount of weeks.

"These days" was an vague reference to the timeframe from May 08 to present day, i.e. the time she's been using it more than I have. Not "these days" as in "she fired up the iMac yesterday and it was great!". I guess I could have been more precise but I didn't realize I was in court.

I'm sorry that you had original teething problems with Leopard. Of course, all early adopters always do ... technology and vendor independent ...
Yes, except that when the same company has total control of both the hardware and OS, and the OS is designed to work with maybe a dozen video card models, not 5,000 of them, and the platform in question "just works" according to its devotees, you don't really expect it to be about as stable as an early beta.
Similarly, we also know that people aren't happy when change is forced upon them, which is what your client did to you.
I wasn't new to Macs so it really wasn't much of a change. The client knew perfectly well it wasn't my platform of choice (they've known me since the mid 90's), but as I would be working in tandem with their main designer who is a long time Machead who won't touch a PC with a 40 ft pole, rather than have minor cross-platform issues with fonts and stuff they just thought it would be smoother if we were both on Mac.

Yet if the 'Dell guy' who was here just mentioned this, how is it that you somehow knew this information a half year earlier?
What? You're not making any sense. The Dell guy replaced the motherboard on my XPS desktop just days after the iMac broke down. While he was working on it I pointed at the iMac box and told him about my recent streak of hardware failures, he then started talking about having been a Mac technician once and went on about some story involving having 28 "Performas" in his home... so I asked him if he knew anything about the current Macs and he said he knew a little, so I asked if taking the hard disk out falls under 'user servicable'(ish) and he said 'did you ever take an analog clock apart when you were a kid?'. He then went on to say that it's supposedly easy to damage the screen. What part of that did I know "half a year earlier"?

Sure, I could have moved the secret files off the machine had I know it would break down, but A) this is the first time that a computer (two in two days, actually) has broken down on me and I've been on computers since C64 in the early 80's, and B) I took for granted that AppleCare was just like Dell's CompleteCare and that the hard disk would never leave my home.

Now, detective, if you have any further gripes with the chronology or maybe want to collect some physical evidence like hairs or fingerprints, please use PM so that we don't clutter up the thread with this nonsense. OK?

[tcphoto]

Funny, it would take quite the actress to actually act as thought she was happy with her purchase. When it's all said and done, most people would gladly pay the price difference fr something that actually works.

[blackhand1001]

I just priced a 17" Dell XPS laptop against a 17" MacBook Pro.

Dell came out at £2059.01
MBP came out at £1998.99

I'm not going into this too deeply but the Dell has an inferior CPU and RAM but may have a slight advantage in the GPU dept as it has a 1GB nVidia SLI Dual GeForce 9800GT graphics card (not sure if the MBP 600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory is better ?)

I added a faster HDD and a remote to the MBP and a better CPU and the Vista Ultimate OS to the Dell which to me makes them pretty even in the hardware comparison.

Of the course the Dell does have an extra USB port and weighs a hefty 4.81kg !

You make your own decision, Apple competes with many laptop manufacturers and they may not be to everyones tastes or wallets, but I personally find them to be a superior product.

One 9800m GT is about 2 1/2 to 3 times as fast as the 9600m GT. So two of them is probably around 5 to 6 times as fast maybe slightly less because of slight scaling difficulties.

[cwkoller5]

By engaging Apple in a direct comparison/attack, big ol' Microsoft has taken the bait and invited Apple into a much more direct marketing battle. And now you can't say that Apple is "picking on Microsoft." But given that Apple has more than doubled its market share at Redmond's expense, you figured this was coming.

However MS' biggest battle isn't with Apple, it's with history. Like Ford, Standard Oil, and the other monopolists, the monopoly will go away either by competition or via government intervention. And unlike American monopolies of the past, Microsoft is battling foreign governments around the globe, trying to maintain the unmaintainable.

By lending credibility and viability to the Mac with this campaign (otherwise, why would they attack it?), Microsoft invites more open comparisons to its software, Apple's and even open source. And although you can buy a cheaper computer in most categories, MS falls down in many ways:

- MS Office is much more expensive than Apple's iWork
- Vista Premium is much more expensive than MacOS X.5
- Apple support surpasses MS and all others in independent rankings
- Mac resale value is much higher (and will subsidize future Mac buys)
- Mac quality is generally superior to all other PC makes
- and there's more

Apple may have to respond with some pricing/model options to address the coming two-way debate which, for consumers, isn't a bad thing. But what would be hilarious would be for Apple to put the laptop this woman/actress bought into Apple Stores, and place it right next to their MacBooks in order to show what $699 really gets you. Call it the Mac Challenge (Pepsi deja vu) and let the consumer decide.

[bruinsrme]

Bad comparison. With the 17" Dell you're effectively getting 2 superior graphics cards and at that price I'm pretty sure a Blu-ray player as well as more RAM. However, I wouldn't consider the XPS M1730 a laptop, more a desktop replacement. The 17" MBP is on the cusp of what is portable.

A fairer comparison would probably be the Studio 17, which is about 500g heavier, but costs a great deal less for almost the same specs.

My son has the 1730 and it is heavy but it is a very nice machine. For about $800 less than the MBP he got a lot more computer , performance, and a much better warranty.
I agree the 1730 to me is a desktop replacement but his animation group totes them around like they are a wallet. Its also very popular to the gaming group he is part of.
The studio 17 is a decent machine that will handle the needs for the email, internet surfer, picture sorting user.
Heavy 24+fps gaming no, but for $700 the thing will last years.
If you think all macs last forever you obviously don't use the forum spy or discount such occurrences as dumb windows users.

[Concorde Rules]

I think it helps to counter the "Macs are perfect" posts to have an articulate description of a really bad Apple experience. We all know that it doesn't mean that all Apples are bad, but it does show that there are a few bad Apples.




You didn't have the "Wind Tunnel" fixed?

Nope, didn't bother me at all. In-fact I tried to *increase* the fan speeds.

Im just pointing out that you spend a little, get **** quality.

Spend lots, it lasts, and always has done for me :)

Microsoft just points out that people want cheap, but all that reflects is there software development, which is on the cheap too!

[Baffles]

its not just the hardware that your paying more for, its also the apple care and support that comes with everyone. Just about every time something goes wrong call up good ol apple and they usually find a solution that works with you. And if there's a software problem they can find a solution and come out with a patch in little time, where Microsoft cant do that as easily.

Except Apple Care costs more money, at least PC manufacturers let you call in past 90 days. And why is Apple so much more equipped to patch issues than Microsoft? I've had my fair share of OS X issues that remain unpatched. Microsoft can patch issues just as easily as Apple.

All the answers on this post only tell how huge opportunity manufacturers are loosing on not distributing GNU-Linux (such as Ubuntu) as OEM - These machines will start coming with a REAL operating system (not only some eeepc or everex-gpc), and Apple (with MacOS-X) will have a true competition.

Known brand PC manufacturers should show us their courage on stop selling their hardware with ms-Windows crappy OEM! What a challenge, isn't it?

I'm sorry, but Linux isn't viable. The attitude of the community as a whole (RTFM/etc), complete lack of support, and the software isn't that great. Its great on servers, I run Linux on all of my servers (granted its only a few), it works well, but for a desktop system it is a COMPLETE mess. No standardized way of doing anything. KDE vs gnome vs a million other desktop environments, all with their own way of doing everything.

Funny, it would take quite the actress to actually act as thought she was happy with her purchase. When it's all said and done, most people would gladly pay the price difference fr something that actually works.

:confused:

One 9800m GT is about 2 1/2 to 3 times as fast as the 9600m GT. So two of them is probably around 5 to 6 times as fast maybe slightly less because of slight scaling difficulties.

Who the hell would want dual 9800m GT SLI in a laptop?


- MS Office is much more expensive than Apple's iWork
- Vista Premium is much more expensive than MacOS X.5
- Apple support surpasses MS and all others in independent rankings
- Mac resale value is much higher (and will subsidize future Mac buys)
- Mac quality is generally superior to all other PC makes
- and there's more

Apple may have to respond with some pricing/model options to address the coming two-way debate which, for consumers, isn't a bad thing. But what would be hilarious would be for Apple to put the laptop this woman/actress bought into Apple Stores, and place it right next to their MacBooks in order to show what $699 really gets you. Call it the Mac Challenge (Pepsi deja vu) and let the consumer decide.

MS Office is also much more functional than iWork. Vista Premium is a full OS license, you can install it on any system, OS X is just an UPGRADE for Apple branded hardware.

As far as quality, I've had FAR more quality issues with my Mac than any PC i've ever used. Hell, I had to return the piece of **** 5 times just to get a system with a half way decent screen, and now the case is rotting away/turning black.

[Santa Rosa]

From what I have read, she isn't an actress and is a student. No matter either way, if she is in real life getting to keep the computer all I can say is I genuinely hope that she enjoys her purchase.

[Micklucky7]

Sure sure sure Microsoft would go after the people who still think the specs are all the same. However, there is an important difference, OS X or Vista... hands down OS X wins. Sure it's clever marketing for Apple to say there is a 8 hour battery life (which is true if you run the standard Text Edit on the lowest energy settings) but time and time again, people will go in to an Apple store and say it's been 2 years and my PC is dead. They don't know why... They don't care, they want something that works and for a number of years after they buy it. What Microsoft doesn't tell you is that their HP 17" laptop is going to be a glorified paperweight in a year's time.

[papiti]

Honey, you are so cheap to go and get a PC Notebook but you own a Volkswagen. YEAH RIGHT!!!:eek:

[Baffles]

I'm "baffled" by this... :confused:

Well, obviously my info is outdated. I do have a MBP. Otherwise, what is so baffling about that?

[D-Love]

Few things about that ad...

1. The woman was obviously a paid actress. No way was she going into an Apple store and seriously going to buy something, even if it was cheap and in her budget. It was all set up by Microsoft, obviously. I hope the American consumer can see that and doesn't think it was truly a woman going out on a mission to buy a 17 inch(who wants that size anyway for a general use laptop, again obviously set up by Microsoft to target the new 17 inch MBP) laptop.

2. Further proving it was set-up, the balance due on the register was 699.99. Very clever, ever heard of tax you idiots? Taking a cue from movies such as Cloverfield, I like how the camera is shaking around and the Best Buy employees looked confused wondering what is going on. Nice acting people.

3. Nearly every laptop she was looking at looked like a POS. And the one she got WAS a POS.

4. WHY is Microsoft starting this ad campaign while Vista is still the default OS for these computers? By all indications, Windows 7 will be a far superior OS that finally gets it right. Why not start these kind of ads THEN?

Bottom line - Apple doesn't have much to worry about. The fact this commercial is even being run is evidence to quite the contrary.

[Anuba]

Anuba, care to chime in here? (and please don't give me the same song and dance about dissenting opinions and Mac "fanboy's" getting upset :rolleyes:). As I have stated numerous times, I use and like both Windows and Mac OS X systems. However, I am not posting baiting and insulting comments on a fan based site for a product I "claim" to use but seem to detest more than "fanboy's". Your arguments contradict themselves, and if we have to read about your iMac one more time, I'll personally fly to your small town south of Stockholm and get it repaired/replaced myself.
First you don't want to hear about the iMac one more time - and neither do I...

While we are on the topic, which is it?
...and then you start asking about it AGAIN.

First you lived in Stockholm, then you stated you live 60 miles south of Stockholm.
Technically that's correct, although it was 8 years ago I last lived in Stockholm. The client I worked for last year has their office in Stockholm, though, but I can't recall saying I lived in their office.

You stated you did not have a warranty for your iMac
I never stated I don't have a warranty for the iMac, I said all along that I bought it with APP. What I did say was that I was disappointed that APP wasn't a standard NBD on-site repairs deal, but more like an extension of the basic warranty. Am I contradicting myself or are you simply paying zero attention?

then you stated you HAVE APP but as your "IT guy" never informed you properly you couldn't use it cause you never activated it.
That's right. He never activated it, thinking I would do it, and I never activated it because I didn't know there was any such thing as "activation" of a support plan, as when I've bought similar plans for other computers in the past it's been done by the vendor on the date of purchase.

Then your comment is that AppleCare is not the same in the EU and they do not send shipping packages, when in fact they certainly do send packing for repairs. Then it was... I can't keep up with your inaccuracies.
I have no idea what AppleCare is like in any other countries but Sweden, and they DO. NOT. SEND. ANY. DAMN. SHIPPING PACKAGES. according to the Apple Support line person I talked to.

[Baffles]

Sure sure sure Microsoft would go after the people who still think the specs are all the same. However, there is an important difference, OS X or Vista... hands down OS X wins. Sure it's clever marketing for Apple to say there is a 8 hour battery life (which is true if you run the standard Text Edit on the lowest energy settings) but time and time again, people will go in to an Apple store and say it's been 2 years and my PC is dead. They don't know why... They don't care, they want something that works and for a number of years after they buy it. What Microsoft doesn't tell you is that their HP 17" laptop is going to be a glorified paperweight in a year's time.

Why will it be a glorified paperweight in a year? If it breaks, send it back under warranty. Or is this more Windows fud?

[xhambonex]

Sure sure sure Microsoft would go after the people who still think the specs are all the same. However, there is an important difference, OS X or Vista... hands down OS X wins. Sure it's clever marketing for Apple to say there is a 8 hour battery life (which is true if you run the standard Text Edit on the lowest energy settings) but time and time again, people will go in to an Apple store and say it's been 2 years and my PC is dead. They don't know why... They don't care, they want something that works and for a number of years after they buy it. What Microsoft doesn't tell you is that their HP 17" laptop is going to be a glorified paperweight in a year's time.

youves missed the point of the commercial. They aren't saying the specs are the same, there is just no mac in her budget. So simply she can't afford a Mac, so she bought a PC. Is that Microsofts or HPs fault. You do realize they are seperate and the fact that Apple makes boht OS and hardware is just a special case. Microsoft is simply saying that Apple computers lack variety and are at a much high price range. (even if its a justified price range in your opinion)

[bedifferent]

Except Apple Care costs more money, at least PC manufacturers let you call in past 90 days.

Sure they do, for a cost...

MS Office is also much more functional than iWork. Vista Premium is a full OS license, you can install it on any system, OS X is just an UPGRADE for Apple branded hardware.

I like OS X.

Quad Core PC Desktop (runs OS X), Gateway Laptop, several servers, buying MBP soon!


Again, :confused:

[xhambonex]

That's like giving people $10,000 to buy a car and then saying that since they got a Kia, it must mean that Audis and BMWs are overpriced :rolleyes:

but you are the one assuming that Microsoft is calling them overpriced. The point is the BUDGET. You wouldn't go looking to buy a BMW with $10k, likewise if you have under $1k to spend on a computer, buy a PC. Its smart and they are correct, people with that budget just can't afford a Mac. Its not saying Macs are bad or too expensive, they just aren't her budget. Just like a BMW is not in my budget.

[Eidorian]

I you think price is not important check this out:

Apple US Mac Sales Down 16%, Windows PC Sales up 22%

http://www.osnews.com/story/21148/Apple_US_Mac_Sales_Down_16_Windows_PC_Sales_up_22_

Given that Apple will not cut its margins, I think we're headed for one of 2 scenarios:

1. Mac share of the market falls to 2-3% - affluent, die hard Mac fans and the professionals;
2. Apple sells off the computer business to focus on iPods, the iPhone and perhaps a tablet netbook.

If you think you're not overpaying for a Mac check out the profit margins on a Mac vs. a PC.

That fat margin is of no value to the consumer - only to Appple shareholders.This is pretty much where I stand. The current iMac update just proved my point. Downshift some processors and sell it as a speed bump.

I don't see a need to replace my MacBook until AppleCare expires on it. Even then it'll be tough.

[bedifferent]

...

I looked over your comments on your profile, about 95% of your comments attempt to paint Apple in a negative light. In fact, it seems this argument regarding Windows OS versus Mac OS has been ongoing for you on MacRumors for a long time:

Pfffffffft. Yeah, I'd love to hear Steve explain that it's not really the users they're talking about. Right after McCain explains that by "the fundaments of our economy", he actually meant the American workers!

Superficially, Hodgeman and Long represent computer platforms but that's just a thinly veiled excuse for targeting the users. Apple's marketing is all about image. They're hell bent on pushing the idea that anyone who uses their products is cool. They want kids to feel like total losers if they leave home without white earbuds. The "I'm a Mac" ads are appealing to their insecurities in the hope that they'll run home and hide their nerd computer and buy a jock computer, stressing that the Mac is the #1 computer on college campuses (which is funny coming from the one camp that always insisted popularity proves nothing...)


Judging from the content of the "I'm a Mac" ads, it's quite evident that they're not trying to appeal to people of reasonable intelligence. Otherwise they wouldn't try to sell the infantile notion that PC's can't be used for creative stuff, only for pie charts and number crunching. Anyone 'reasonably intelligent' would instantly call Apple's bluff with the stupid Ellen Feiss switch ads ("I was writing a paper on the PC, and it was like, beep-bleep-bleep-beep, and then, like, half of my paper was gone. And I was like... ehh? It devoured my paper".). Mmmmkay. :rolleyes:

Secondly, I will not address your comment again, it is getting old and no matter what any one writes in response you gloss over their valid points and reiterate the same statements over and over. Your stories do not add up, as many have pointed out, and it seems your agenda has been to troll MacRumors for a long time. As another user stated, it seems more logical to simply ignore this antithetical behavior.

[anthony71571]

It's a good thing they didn't ask her to just buy the best laptop. She would've gotten a Mac. Yes the 17 inch is a sweet size but wait until she sees the blue screen of death in that 17 inch screen. Her room is going to look like a night club with black lights.
Choices:
big screen, crapy computer
or
small screen, great computer?

[Anuba]

Few things about that ad...

1. The woman was obviously a paid actress. No way was she going into an Apple store and seriously going to buy something, even if it was cheap and in her budget. It was all set up by Microsoft, obviously. I hope the American consumer can see that and doesn't think it was truly a woman going out on a mission to buy a 17 inch(who wants that size anyway for a general use laptop, again obviously set up by Microsoft to target the new 17 inch MBP) laptop.
I think the consumer realizes she was a paid actress, like in every other commercial ever made, unless the consumer is retarded. Just like Apple used "fake real people" like Ellen Feiss in their Switch campaign. The "faux witness" is the oldest trick in the advertising book, it was used by scam artists who sold "miracle elixirs" in the Old West, and probably long before that.

2. Further proving it was set-up, the balance due on the register was 699.99. Very clever, ever heard of tax you idiots? Taking a cue from movies such as Cloverfield, I like how the camera is shaking around and the Best Buy employees looked confused wondering what is going on. Nice acting people.
Again, is there any indication or reason why it would not be a set-up? These things are set-ups. It's understood. Most of the reality shows you've seen in your life were set-ups too ("Can we do a retake on that? I want a more emotional reaction this time when we announce that Bill gets voted off the island!") The rule of thumb is, if it's on TV, it's fake.

3. Nearly every laptop she was looking at looked like a POS. And the one she got WAS a POS.
Yep, the one she got was certainly a POS, with a slow AMD processor. She should have gone for that other HP she looked at.

4. WHY is Microsoft starting this ad campaign while Vista is still the default OS for these computers? By all indications, Windows 7 will be a far superior OS that finally gets it right. Why not start these kind of ads THEN?
Between products is exactly when companies run brand ads like these. You want a Win7 campaign? Oh, there'll be a Win7 campaign... but that's not what this is, it's not selling Vista or Win7 or HP (or Lauren). It's about the Windows brand.

[skaertus]

85 pages this is hilarious! all the Apple consumers / fanboys are here trying to justify paying the Apple tax just to run OS X on the very same hardware that is inside every single Windows based PC look, you Apple fan boys can spin this all you want at the end of the day Apple has imbedded a huge tax on every box they sell giving you the rights to run OS X on the very same hardware a Windows user probably paid half the price for.

It was inevitable that this argument would gain more steam once Apple changed over to using the same Intel processors used in a Windows box yet they continue to charge the Apple tax for using OS X

Its time for Apple to lower or drop the OS X tax plain and simple you really cant spin this any other way! there are 85 pages of post in this thread and this is the bottom line, how much are you willing to spend in order to run OS X ?

Microsoft's ad was right to the point. The difference between a PC and a Mac is, basically, the OS. Apple cannot justify higher prices on the differences of hardware anymore. It's not a PowerPC against an Intel processor. Then, how much are you willing to pay to get MacOS X instead of Windows? And how much are you willing to pay to get a machine which is more integrated with its OS? Is it really worth it? For some, it may be. For others, it may be not.

[Anuba]

I looked over your comments on your profile, about 95% of your comments attempt to paint Apple in a negative light.
That sounds about right, yes. It's a rotten company. I still like their industrial design and some of their products, such as my iPhone. Maybe in your mind, everything is black and white and things of dualistic nature don't exist -- that would explain why you keep arguing about the "logic" of just about everything -- but I assure you, it's quite possible to have a love/hate relationship with something.

[wiini]

I will gladly give Apple a bit more of my money cause I know their going to use it for innovation rather then copying like Microsoft

[bedifferent]

That sounds about right, yes. It's a rotten company. I still like their industrial design and some of their products, such as my iPhone. Maybe in your mind, everything is black and white and things of dualistic nature don't exist -- that would explain why you keep arguing about the "logic" of just about everything -- but I assure you, it's quite possible to have a love/hate relationship with something.

If 95% of your comments are disparaging, it seems more of a hate/hate relationship than love/hate. You do not know me or my "mind", the world is very grey, I am well aware of that fact. So please, do not attempt to educate me on what I know.

[skaertus]

I will gladly give Apple a bit more of my money cause I know their going to use it for innovation rather then copying like Microsoft

C'mon. Apple is not the good guy and Microsoft is not the bad guy either. They're both large companies which invest in innovation just for selling products. Microsoft had some original ideas with Windows Vista and, especially, Windows 7. And I wish Apple copied Microsoft more...

[niuniu]

Notice she headed straight for the Mac store when she had the cash ;)

[ccuk]

I will gladly give Apple a bit more of my money cause I know their going to use it for innovation rather then copying like Microsoft

Wow. Such an ignorant comment. I really have no idea where to begin.


The last time I checked, Microsoft produced software other than Windows offering features other companies don't. Needless to say, I would say Direct X is pretty innovative as is Silverlight.


I really don't understand why is has to be black and white. Just because you like OS X doesn't mean you have a sworn allegiance to therefore hate the competitor with everything you have. Microsoft are a competitor, and that to me is a good thing. The best example I can think of is the iPhone. I find it more than a coincidence that Apple magically add all the features we have been asking for, for nearly the past two years, just as a competitor (the Pre) enters the market. Notice the connection?

[themightyspitz]

OK, Macs are more expensive, yes. But add in some of these other things: anti-virus software, maintenance, upgrading specs, number of hairs pulled out over Vista, and number of hours spent on the phone in India with tech support.

Sorry folks. My Macbook simply works.

[donmega1833]

Maybe I missed something that Microsoft's marketing people didn't see. The first place she went was the "Mac store"! I thought that was pretty funny putting your competitions superior product in your ad and also taken the position that we sell cheap products . I consider this ad Strike 2, the first was the Seinfield ad which was ridiculous. I will say this, it has seemed to strike a nerve with the Mac community. I own a HP Pavillion :Dalso and I hate it. Number one reason it runs Windows Vista. If I was HP I would tell Microsoft to stop putting me in there ads!

[skaertus]

OK, Macs are more expensive, yes. But add in some of these other things: anti-virus software, maintenance, upgrading specs, number of hairs pulled out over Vista, and number of hours spent on the phone in India with tech support.

Sorry folks. My Macbook simply works.

Again: how much MacOS is worth for you? Being better than Windows, well, it's just a matter of opinion, no hard data to prove that.

[opeter]

OK, Macs are more expensive, yes. But add in some of these other things: anti-virus software, maintenance, upgrading specs, number of hairs pulled out over Vista, and number of hours spent on the phone in India with tech support.

Sorry folks. My Macbook simply works.

Well, good for you. Be happy with it, use it as long as you can. :o

But what was that about India tech support?
Many people buys no-name comps (that they can take back to store if they need it for tech support) or are buying components and are building their own machines.

[iPhoneNYC]

I would buy a PC but it would make me so crazy I'd have to jump out the Windows...

[sschwar4]

Notice she headed straight for the Mac store when she had the cash ;)

And sold the new laptop on Craigslist.

[AidenShaw]

2. Further proving it was set-up, the balance due on the register was 699.99. Very clever, ever heard of tax you idiots?

There's a bit of ignorance here - some US states do not have sales tax. One reference says that includes Alaska, Oregon, Montana, Delaware, and New Hampshire.

Also, in California, it is not uncommon for stores to have "no sales tax" sales. They give a discount equal to the sales tax, so you walk out paying the sticker price.

But anyway, it's a fricking ad - not a court deposition. Do you want to start of list of misleading and incorrect claims that Apple has made in ads?

(Hint: Look at any ad where Apple uses the word "First" or "Fastest". You'll almost always find something earlier or faster. Case in point - "First 64-bit Desktop" was an outright lie.)

By the way, the "Mac Store" in the ad is the Santa Monica store....

[Anuba]

but you are the one assuming that Microsoft is calling them overpriced. The point is the BUDGET. You wouldn't go looking to buy a BMW with $10k, likewise if you have under $1k to spend on a computer, buy a PC. Its smart and they are correct, people with that budget just can't afford a Mac. Its not saying Macs are bad or too expensive, they just aren't her budget. Just like a BMW is not in my budget.
Exactly.

But the point is that a BMW isn't overpriced for what it is. It's built by high-paid German workers, it has a lot of sophisticated technology you won't find on a Kia, you could pick any part of a BMW and compare it to the corresponding part on a Kia and find that the BMW part has cost the manufacturer more. A BMW isn't "overpriced", it's simply expensive.

A MacBook is made cheaply in China, and all components except the unibody and the battery are generic PC parts. Apple also cuts corners in places where other manufacturers don't, like the fact that they have the exact same keyboard on all their alu portables, whereas on a Dell or HP (like the one in the commercial) they have a full-sized keyboard with numpad on 17" models, compact keyboard on 15" and even more compact ones on 10" ultraportables and such.

I commend Apple for streamlining the process and minimizing the number of parts, not just per machine but the actual number of different parts they have to make for all different models... but they are sooooo not passing the savings on to the customer, they're merely increasing their already astronomical margin.

If Macs had a lot of unique internal components and/or weren't built in China people would merely be calling them expensive, not overpriced.

[jazz1]

I have no idea about how much educational, government or institutional sales mean to Apple. But you can bet the the penny pinchers are now out in force, and the IT people who hate Macs are going to be all over this Mac vs. Windows cost thing with increased fervor.

Maybe this has pretty much happened with desktops over the years anyway. But Mac laptop purchase requests are going to see some increased scrutiny. Want an iPhone from your insitution so you can tie it all together for work after hours? Dream on cubicle monkey ;)

Better OS, higher quality hardware, and less support does translate into higher productivity on the Mac side of things. But the business managers and IT Scrooges are going to run with this issue. I know I save at least 40 or more customers a year because I can respond to customer need almost 24/7. Because I have a Mac desktop, laptop, and iPhone. I got my life synchronized with work because Mac hardware and software works so well.

I just got a MacPro on a 4 years replacement cycle. I consider myself lucky. I suppose I should have considered a MacBook for less money. But then again the people I serve benefit from my increased productivity and it does translate into dollars.

My own institution has gone from a 3 year computer cycle to 4 years, and that was before the Wall Street blowout. I hate to say it that these economic times may lose us some Mac vs. PC fence sitters to the Redmond side.

I'm sure Cupertino has an eye on this. I hope they find some way to respond no matter how indirectly they do it. But as much as I love the Mac/PC guy ads funny is not going to cut it with these economic realties.

Heck, next Microsoft is going to say Mac users are government bailout money recipients:eek:

[tbobmccoy]

And sold the new laptop on Craigslist.

So as the final MR poster to chime in on this thread, I'd like to say that in 2006, I bought my MacBook and not much has changed in the field of hardware for me to want to upgrade it. When the AppleCare runs out in November, I'm not sure that it'll even be worth upgrading at that point. Prior to my MacBook purchase, I had 5 different PC laptops that slowed down over time, froze, needed new OS installations (I can't count how many times I've installed XP), and hardware issues (Dell is a POS OEM).

Microsoft isn't making a good ploy to halt switchers from PCs to Macs simply by price when Macs traditionally have a longer shelf-life and less troubleshooting time. They certainly aren't attempting to bring back into the "fold" former switchers with this ad, and like a previous poster said, Vista sucks and Windows 7 is looking promising... this ad is in the wrong place at the wrong time. How many millions of dollars did they spend on this advertising project? I'd ask for a refund.

[dubman200]

I'd like to know who the marketing manager is at Microsoft, as if this is the best they can come up with, it's pretty poor.

I'd take a 13'' MB any day over a 17" HP.

[rajalot]

That's good commercial, taking into account the economy right now.

[opeter]

But the point is that a BMW isn't overpriced for what it is. It's build by high-paid German workers, it has a lot of sophisticated technology you won't find on a Kia, you could pick any part of a BMW and compare it to the corresponding part on a Kia and find that the BMW part has cost the manufacturer more. A BMW isn't "overpriced", it's simply expensive.

Heh, americans are always over-estimating some european stuff (anuba, i know you are from Spain ;)).
Many of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes's, VW's etc. european car parts are made in Eastern European countrys, sometimes also assembled.

Anyway, i'm quite happy, you like EU cars and are willing, to pay the export-tax, it's also better for our pure EU budget.

[Blair230]

Im sorry if I may be repeating someone else but I dont have the time nor inclination to read through 80+ pages of posts.

I think some people are missing the point here. Many regular consumers do NOT care whether a hard drive is 5400 RPM or 7200 RPM, integrated graphics, or whether the RAM is DDR2 or DDR3. In fact most of them have NO clue what those stats mean.

What they do hear is 17" screen, 500 GB Hard drive, DVD player, etc. To them,they want to know what they can do with the machine (i.e. does it burn DVDs, can I get on the internet) than the specs.

In my opinion (and I am a mac lover), Microsoft has a good campaign with this, especially in this economy.

[Anuba]

Heh, americans are always over-estimating some european stuff (anuba, i know you are from Spain ;)).
Sweden, actually, but at least the EU. ;)

Many of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes's, VW's etc. european car parts are made in Eastern European countrys, sometimes also assembled.
Yeah, I know. I have a VW Golf GTI built in Wolfsburg, and my friend has a Skoda Octavia built in... uh.. Czech Republic(?) and it's the exact same parts -- engine, seats, steering wheel, AC system etc aren't just similar, they are exactly the same. At least if you get an Audi A3, another car built on the Golf platform, the interior looks totally different.

But still, even though BMW cuts corners too, there's a looong way between a Kia and a BMW.

[michaelsviews]

So the woman bought a PC and in some peoples opinions a crappy one, to all of us that love Apple and everything about apple it should not matter what she bought or says. She didn't pay for it with her own money anyways, the other thing I see is that she's going to haul around a 17" laptop. Just Micro$oft spewing there crappy OS along with HP riding the wave.:D

[Jinorasa]

It's not cool enough to be a Mac person but it's definitely cheap enough to be a pc person. Is that what the ad try to say?

I would like to thank the person who come up the idea of this ad, cos if Apple take it seriously, they might lower the price and that will benefits all Apple user and those who switch from pc to Mac.

[Tallest Skil]

I think some people are missing the point here. Many regular consumers do NOT care whether a hard drive is 5400 RPM or 7200 RPM, integrated graphics, or whether the RAM is DDR2 or DDR3. In fact most of them have NO clue what those stats mean.

Well, then, I offer a statement to the general population:

GET. MORE. FRICKING. INTELLIGENT.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity is the willingness to learn.

Someone ignorant just doesn't know about something. Someone stupid knows, but doesn't care to learn.

You can't make informed decisions without knowledge. You can't make good decisions without knowledge.

[dukebound85]

Well, then, I offer a statement to the general population:

GET. MORE. FRICKING. INTELLIGENT.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity is the willingness to learn.

Someone ignorant just doesn't know about something. Someone stupid knows, but doesn't care to learn.

you know.....those same people could turn around to you and tell you to learn more about something they know all to well that you dont

seriously, some people do not care for the minute details of a computer......as long as it can do what they want

[iSee]

Wow, MS takes one (legitimate, IMO) shot at Macs and we get > 2000 posts (and counting). Are we Apple devotees really so touchy?

I love Apple products, but man, Apple can sure stand to be taken down a peg or two. Those Apple ads are so smug. I just want to slap Apple.

Also, this ad isn't just about price. The point is that with Windows you have a lot of choices with the hardware. Apple doesn't sell a budget 17" laptop. It only sells a top-of-the-line one. They don't sell a budget anything, actually. Apple doesn't sell a midrange tower or a midrange 15" notebook, or a netbook, etc. And the products they do sell have limited options and, for the most part, very limited expansion.

Third, does it really matter if the girl in the commercial is "real?" It's a commercial for pete's sake, not a documentary. It's designed to send a message:

With a Windows PC you have a lot of inexpensive choices: there's a Windows PC out there for everyone.

It's a fair point I think, though for now I'll stick with my MBP, thank you very much.

[koa]

Lauren probably could have done a lot better for a bit more money and some smart shopping/searching. She could have bought the Mac 13" for $949. w/ ed. discount and pushed her budget a bit and bought a Dell 2209WA monitor for $207. (or a cheap TN screen for less). Later she could add an external HD if needed (and the monitor if her budget was set in stone). She'd be "cool", have a lighter computer to transport and have a fantastic screen at home. She would also have some resale value if she decides to upgrade when she transitions from commercials to TV sitcoms. Most people would at least ask around for buying advise before buying.

Or just buy from Costco and exchange the HP every 89 days for the perpetual upgrade/endless warranty option.:D

Maybe a Camry/Lexus ES would be a better car comparison if you feel the need to make one.

[Tallest Skil]

you know.....those same people could turn around to you and tell you to learn more about something they know all to well that you dont

That's the point.:D

It's useless to be versed in only one field, however well (versed) you are. It's better to be well rounded.

[Anuba]

I have no idea about how much educational, government or institutional sales mean to Apple. But you can bet the the penny pinchers are now out in force, and the IT people who hate Macs are going to be all over this Mac vs. Windows cost thing with increased fervor.

Maybe this has pretty much happened with desktops over the years anyway. But Mac laptop purchase requests are going to see some increased scrutiny. Want an iPhone from your insitution so you can tie it all together for work after hours? Dream on cubicle monkey ;)

Better OS, higher quality hardware, and less support does translate into higher productivity on the Mac side of things. But the business managers and IT Scrooges are going to run with this issue. I know I save at least 40 or more customers a year because I can respond to customer need almost 24/7. Because I have a Mac desktop, laptop, and iPhone. I got my life synchronized with work because Mac hardware and software works so well.

I just got a MacPro on a 4 years replacement cycle. I consider myself lucky. I suppose I should have considered a MacBook for less money. But then again the people I serve benefit from my increased productivity and it does translate into dollars.

My own institution has gone from a 3 year computer cycle to 4 years, and that was before the Wall Street blowout. I hate to say it that these economic times may lose us some Mac vs. PC fence sitters to the Redmond side.

I'm sure Cupertino has an eye on this. I hope they find some way to respond no matter how indirectly they do it. But as much as I love the Mac/PC guy ads funny is not going to cut it with these economic realties.

Heck, next Microsoft is going to say Mac users are government bailout money recipients:eek:
It's hard to predict how this economy will treat a company like Apple. The numbers that are in don't exactly look encouraging, but it's a little more complicated than the luxury brands taking the worst hit and the bargain-basement brands getting all the business.

I have an acquantance who works at a luxury furniture store where they sell Italian leather sofas and various exclusive designer stuff, and he says they're barely noticing any difference from 2008 or 2007. Ikea on the other hand has been losing LOTS of business over the last 6 months.

It could simply be that the people who buy luxury furniture have loads of money no matter what the economy is like, but the people who shop at Ikea are scared sh*tless and hold on to their pennies. Arguably the Ikea shoppers would be the same people who buy a $699 laptop like the one "Lauren" got.

So, Apple could actually do surprisingly well in this climate. On the other hand they don't have just the well-off customers, they also have some institutional sales, students, and people who shouldn't afford a Mac but reaaaally wanted one and sold the car or whatever. That doesn't happen with the luxury furniture I mentioned. So... yeah, we'll see.

[chuckcalo]

After the commercial she got paid enough to buy a Mac.

[carichard]

These ads appeal to a certain kind of person that value saving a dollar up front over being more efficient and capable with their time. As a long time Mac user, I can truly say that the cost of the computer is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the hours I spend in front of this thing. If I'm going to spend thousands of hours in front of this hunk of aluminum and refined sand, it actually makes better economic and logical sense to spend more money up front with the payback of more efficiency later.

The reason Windows and less expensive PCs will always have their huge market share is that the vast majority of people are willing to put up with less capable and efficient hardware and software to save a buck. That's fine, because with the insanely high profit level Apple makes on "the rest of us" we will be assured of continued market leading and innovation in terms of hardware and software.

How much is your time worth people?

[Lesser Evets]

These ads appeal to a certain kind of person that value saving a dollar up front over being more efficient and capable with their time.

How much is your time worth people?

Precisely.

Seems few people are smart enough to factor in their own lives and time as money, which is ignorant or self-debasing.

[rtheb]

Lauren should have waited for today's woot (http://www.woot.com)
...
Refurbished but with Blu-Ray.

[ces1965]

The best thing about this ad, is that HP, Dell, etc. probably aren't too happy that MS is saying there's no reason to spend more than $699 on a laptop. The PC guys can't exist on those machines. Further, the more machines they sell with razor thin margins the harder yet they will be able to provide support (which they already do poorly).

[-hh]

I commend Apple for streamlining the process and minimizing the number of parts, not just per machine but the actual number of different parts they have to make for all different models... but they are sooooo not passing the savings on to the customer, they're merely increasing their already astronomical margin.

The last time that I checked, Microsoft's profit margins are higher than Apple's. I kid you not: go look up their SEC filings. It is really the PC hardware manufacturers (Dell, HP) that get squeezed to narrow margins due to their commodity market forces. Since they all run Windows, there's not much basis for them to have product differentiation -- which is of course why Dell wants Apple to license OS X clones, etc (plus, this would create OS supplier competition with which Dell could leverage against MS).


If Macs had a lot of unique internal components and/or weren't built in China people would merely be calling them expensive, not overpriced.

And of course, the belief paradigm that is present here is that Apple's OS X somehow gets developed all by itself, for free. :rolleyes:



-hh

[simon182]

to be honest, id much rather take the peanuts, macbook and balloon

[Manderby]

Remember the tv-ads about laundry detergent? They are about the oldest ads ever, They belong to the very first ads since the age of tv. And the laundry keeps getting whiter and whiter and whiter and whiter... Dishwashers make dishes and glasses shinier, shinier, shinier... Action figures are getting cooler, cooler... Macs are more expensive than PCs... This is all "history repeating". Yet look at the number of responses. Aren't we all little nerds? ;)

My opinion: Less than 1% of people know what is important when buying a computer, so targeting the other 99% of all people with the price is a perfectly good idea. Same thing for cars: Nobody who understands something about cars (again, most propably about 1% of all people) would buy a _enter_a_sub_optimal_car_name_ but the other 99% still do it. So, you want a cheap computer that suffices your needs? Go on, it's your choice, but don't come whining to the expers when the price was not the only thing that was cheap.

[niuniu]

I agree that the ads appeal to consumers (like my mother) who look for a good deal (which means big numbers she doesn't really understand on the spec sheet coupled with a low price tag).

But this ad was smarter than that - it's picked up on the generation of younger, savvier PC owners who vehemently claim to hate Apple, saying Apple users are all Starbucks drinking, shaggy haired liberals spending mummy's money.

Do a search on the forums, you'll see lots of posts such as 'I'm not cool enough for a Mac'.

Picking up on that and using it in the advert was smart, smarter than the price tag focus - it'll feed and perpetuate the anti-snobbery PC users have when it comes to Mac, and give them that underdog sense of pride and camaradery.

[opeter]

Sweden, actually, but at least the EU. ;)

Ugh, silly me. I did look at your location and did read as .es, rather than .se :o

Yeah, I know. I have a VW Golf GTI built in Wolfsburg, and my friend has a Skoda Octavia built in... uh.. Czech Republic(?) and it's the exact same parts -- engine, seats, steering wheel, AC system etc aren't just similar, they are exactly the same. At least if you get an Audi A3, another car built on the Golf platform, the interior looks totally different.

But still, even though BMW cuts corners too, there's a looong way between a Kia and a BMW.

Absolutelly, have to agree with that. :)

[atzeX]

Why is she driving a VW? Isn’t that an „expensive“ car in the US?

And the she goes out and buys something cheap?

[dukebound85]

Why is she driving a VW? Isn’t that an „expensive“ car in the US?

And the she goes out and buys something cheap?

a vw isnt that expensive....esp if its used lol

[Anuba]

The last time that I checked, Microsoft's profit margins are higher than Apple's.
Of course they are, they're a software company (the "first" software company according to Steve Jobs) that produces some hardware on the side. How could the margins not be ludicrous on software?

Ergo, I'm not comparing Apple to them, but to...

the PC hardware manufacturers (Dell, HP)
^^^those guys, who are living high on the hog on their slim margins.

And of course, the belief paradigm that is present here is that Apple's OS X somehow gets developed all by itself, for free. :rolleyes:
Err... I work in software, well three of my clients do, you don't need to tell me that software development doesn't come for free. I know the man hours that go into it.

But Windows didn't come out of an EZ bake oven either, a computer ships with an OS included and that's where the comparison starts. OK, now add $79 worth of iLife. Have we filled the $500-$2,000 discrepancy now?

[WeegieMac]

OMG you are so right. It looks just like a external CD/DVD drive:eek: They must be copying them because no one has ever produced one of those.

He means the design/appearance of the drive is near identical to the SuperDrive add-on for the Macbook Air, you unsuccessfully sarcastic fud.

[Rich223]

What people have to realize with computers, cars, etc. is: Lowest Price is rarely the Best Deal

[koa]

But still, even though BMW cuts corners too, there's a looong way between a Kia and a BMW.

But the Hyundai Genesis might delete a few of those o's.;)
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/genesis/genesis.aspx

[AidenShaw]

IBut this ad was smarter than that - it's picked up on the generation of younger, savvier PC owners who vehemently claim to hate Apple, saying Apple users are all Starbucks drinking, shaggy haired liberals spending mummy's money.

Picking up on that and using it in the advert was smart, smarter than the price tag focus - it'll feed and perpetuate the anti-snobbery PC users have when it comes to Mac, and give them that underdog sense of pride and camaradery.

Maybe Apple will realize this and decide that the Justin Long character isn't helping them.

By the way, here's an interesting story in Advertising Age:

http://adage.com/article?article_id=135578

Microsoft Wants You to Know: PCs Are Cheaper
Gives Computer-Seeking Consumers Cash to Spend in Crispin's Latest Spots
By Rupal Parekh

Published: March 26, 2009

NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- PCs are cheaper than Macs, and Microsoft wants you to know it.

Microsoft harps on the affordability PCs can offer cash-strapped consumers in the market for a new computer with a new spot called 'Laptop Hunters.'

With the recession as its backdrop, Microsoft has finally jumped on the value-messaging bandwagon in a new ad, a 60-second spot dubbed "Laptop Hunters" that will break tonight during the NCAA "March Madness" basketball tournament.
...


(by the way, Best Buy is also a CP+B account - interesting)...

a vw isnt that expensive....esp if its used lol

You mean "refurbished", right? ;)

[sharkinfested]

It’s so odd that people get so personally vested in a mass-produced consumer product. I guess I could understand if the employees of these corporations were getting all upset over ads like this because sales of these products affect their job security – but why all the fanatical devotion by the consumers? Does it really matter to you what someone else chooses to buy?

You don’t see this type of devotion with other consumer products.

You never see two women fighting over which tampon is better, or two guys arguing about the recipes of Coke and Pepsi, or even BMW owners debating with Audi owners as to which car is better.

But for some reason computers are the exception – and advertisers are exploiting it. It’s really silly.

If you’re upset with this ad then you’ve been manipulated – they pushed your button.
Price comparison has been, and will continue to be, a widespread advertising tool to sell lower priced products.
The advertisers really struck a cord with the line “I’m just not cool enough to me a Mac person.” This line speaks directly about the “Apple snobs” and the “Mac fanboys”. A lot of Windows users are put off by a perceived “attitude” of many Apple users - and for that reason alone they won’t even consider an Apple computer purchase.
Windows users – they just pushed your button too.

Don’t be a sheep. Buy whatever computer you want, and don’t worry what other people buy!
For the record I buy Apple products AND Microsoft products because each company produces products that I find useful. But that’s as far as it goes for me. I won’t pledge allegiance to a corporation.

[Anuba]

(by the way, Best Buy is also a CP+B account - interesting)...

And so is Burger King. Apparently CP+B is the agency you go to when you want a "brand perception makeover". With Burger King the message was pretty much "heck yeah I eat meat and I'm proud of it", and with Windows it appears that the message hasn't changed much, now it's "heck yeah I use a PC and I'm proud of it".

[AidenShaw]

And so is Burger King. Apparently CP+B is the agency you go to when you want a "brand perception makeover". With Burger King the message was pretty much "heck yeah I eat meat and I'm proud of it", and with Windows it appears that the message hasn't changed much, now it's "heck yeah I use a PC and I'm proud of it".

SO IS VOLKSWAGEN !!!!

It comes full circle!

LOL!

[dsnort]

And so is Burger King. Apparently CP+B is the agency you go to when you want a "brand perception makeover". With Burger King the message was pretty much "heck yeah I eat meat and I'm proud of it", and with Windows it appears that the message hasn't changed much, now it's "heck yeah I use a PC and I'm proud of it".

Now if only Burger King would come up with a "We won't leave your sandwich in the microwave until the bun is hot enough to scald your mouth" message, they might be on to something!

[jazz1]

After the commercial she got paid enough to buy a Mac.

I love that thought. Maybe should could sell the Windows machine a leverage the money toward a Mac even a refurb. or used one.

Actually the proposition they put to her is "fixed" in that they pretty much said you get this only if you buy a Windows machine, given the money parameters. In other words she could not have kicked in her own money on top of the money she got to play the rigged game.

It would have been funny if she could have found an Ubuntu machine or simply Hackintoshed the Windows machine just to spite them ;) I guess in the end where there is a will there is a way to get a Mac. I know I've done it despite hard times now and in the past.

[Balooba]

The clip did not show the obligatory moment where the sales person really really recommends that she buys Norton Internet Security. Three years protection for "only $184.98 + tax".

[neiltc13]

The clip did not show the obligatory moment where the sales person really really recommends that she buys Norton Internet Security. Three years protection for "only $184.98 + tax".

How many times do you people need to be told? Virus protection might have been "obligatory" back in 1998 but if you actually used Windows for any great length of time you'd see that it's now rock solid and it's very, very difficult to get a virus.

I've been running Windows machines for years with no third party firewall, spyware or antivirus protection. I'm fine.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

How many times do you people need to be told? Virus protection might have been "obligatory" back in 1998 but if you actually used Windows for any great length of time you'd see that it's now rock solid and it's very, very difficult to get a virus.

I've been running Windows machines for years with no third party firewall, spyware or antivirus protection. I'm fine.

Same. I've had an install of Windows on my machine for over a year and have yet to have a single piece of Malware infiltrate my system, that is running with no third party protection.

[idkmybff]

IMO, Vista really went off the rails because they tried to make it all high-octane glossy feeling like OS X and alienated their bread-n-butter Homer Simpson / IT department customers in the process (not just aesthetically but in terms of hardware requirements and so on).

You had me at Homer Simpson. While I snipped your post for brevity, I created an account just put an exclamation point after your contentions.

bravo, xeroply. we share dirt from the same trenches.

that is all.

[-hh]

Err... I work in software, well three of my clients do, you don't need to tell me that software development doesn't come for free. I know the man hours that go into it.

And your professional experience in hardware design & manufacturing is ... what, pray tell?

FWIW, over the past 3 decades, I've met a lot of naive software developers that believe that the guys bending metal for making the hardware can simply pull an all-nighter and "poof!" they'll have an 8 port injection mold show up overnight without having to lay out $100K four months earlier. As such, your comments about 'cheap' manufacturing has a ring of either ignorance or of crass disrespect...neither option is particularly admirable.

But Windows didn't come out of an EZ bake oven either...

True, but with roughly a 20:1 advantage in sales, MS's development costs get amortized across roughly 20x more unit sales. Hardly a trivial difference...its a huge advantage for Microsoft.

OK, now add $79 worth of iLife. Have we filled the $500-$2,000 discrepancy now?

From the above and for all other factors being equal, what Apple has to sell at an amortized cost of $20, Microsoft can sell for $1.

But since IIRC Microsoft sells OEM licenses at roughly $30 or $40, using this same sales volume handicapping ratio for recovering OS development costs, it means that the 'Apple Tax' simply due to their market share disadvantage is on the rough order of magnitude of $600 - $800.


FWIW, I know that your "$2000 discrepancy" comment is based on the new Mac Pro ... we'll simply have to wait another 48 hours for other PC manufacturers to release their equivalent products to determine if the MP is "overpriced" or not.

And given Lenovo's current prices on their D10 workstation, if their new D20 follows suit, there probably won't be a $2000 discrepancy, or even a $1000 one.


-hh

Edit:
Lenovo D10 Workstation w/Windows, 2.66GHz Quad Core Xeon, 3GB RAM, 500GB HD & DVD burner = US$2,369
(or $2,554 with the 750GB HD)
Apple Mac Pro 'Quad' (Nehlam) 640GB HD for $2,499 ... an extra $130, or $55 cheaper, depending on the HD choice on the Lenovo one wants to suggest is 'more equivalent'.

[bamerican]

I wonder how many times she's going to have to reformat her hard drive because of slow performance.

That's what caused me to make the switch. I've never been happier I did.

[Digitalclips]

Will she 'LOVE' her new PC the way she would have a Mac? That's the real question! What price can you put on love? :)

[skaertus]

How many times do you people need to be told? Virus protection might have been "obligatory" back in 1998 but if you actually used Windows for any great length of time you'd see that it's now rock solid and it's very, very difficult to get a virus.

I've been running Windows machines for years with no third party firewall, spyware or antivirus protection. I'm fine.

Windows gets viruses just because viruses are written for Windows. MacOS has also gotten viruses written for it, as it is becoming more popular over the years. An anti-virus is recommended, but not essential, to both OSs.

In fact, this "MacOS is safer" and "Windows needs expensive anti-virus" talk is pure a matter of opinion and not based on facts. Symantec has released a report last month in which it qualifies Windows as the most secure OS, and MacOS as the least secure (Linux is in the middle).

See the link for the news here: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=805&blogid=4

And the whole paper here: http://eval.symantec.com/mktginfo/enterprise/white_papers/b-whitepaper_web_based_attacks_03-2009.en-us.pdf

Now, let's base our statements on real data and research.

[organerito]

Same. I've had an install of Windows on my machine for over a year and have yet to have a single piece of Malware infiltrate my system, that is running with no third party protection.

I don't have any antivirus either.

When the very used " I am a PC, I am a Mac" ads force the reality to make their point, everyone cheers up Apple. When Microsoft does the same, most of the people become ruthless critics. It is just a commercial and it is not going to stop people from buying a Mac or a Windows machine. Perhaps, Windows 7 will, but not this commercial.

[skaertus]

I don't have any antivirus either.

When the very used " I am a PC, I am a Mac" ads force the reality to make their point, everyone cheers up Apple. When Microsoft does the same, most of the people become ruthless critics. It is just a commercial and it is not going to stop people from buying a Mac or a Windows machine. Perhaps, Windows 7 will, but not this commercial.

Everybody knows a PC is cheaper than a Mac. It's evident, it's on the price tag. Everything else is not clear at all (whether Macs are better built, MacOS is worth the price, or the total cost of ownership is actually bigger). Microsoft is just telling the obvious, but it's a great ad.