Christians and Homosexuality

[pdham]

Ok... I often see / hear people say that Christians hate homosexuals, because of versus that appear in the bible... usually the one in Leviticus is quoted as it was in the thread about homosexuality in zanzibar. Here is the thing, the Levitical law was written for the Jewish people and is found originally in the Torah. As it says numerous times in the New Testimant; with Christ the old law (levitical, Mosaic, etc.) is passed away and superceded by the two "greatest commandments" (see Matt 20 for 1 example of this dialouge) These commandments are "love your Lord you God with all your mind, body and soul" and "love your neighbor as yourself"

Now yes, I am aware that homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testimant once in 1 Cor. 6:9 - "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God."

But as you can see this verse is saying that unrepented (unrighteous) sinners, and then it lists various sin including homosexuality, won't enter heaven. But there is no disctintion between homosexuality and drunkeness.

My point is this.. as a Christian we are called to live and love as Christ did. I feel that homosexuality is a sin, but it is no bigger or worse a sin than stealing, lieing, etc. And I certainly don't hate or want to put to death homosexuals as people would like to imply with the Levitical quote. Levitical Law and the New Testemant commandment are two different statements for two different sets of people at two different times. As a Christian I am called to the New Testemant commandment of love. So, if you meet a Christian that hates homosexuals as people, you might want to ask them to take a serious look at there spiritual life. Feeling it is a sin and hating those in it are very different. I would like to think that if I was ever in the same town as Vniow, if she could accept me for who I am, we could do lunch.

Paul

P.S. I am not saying that Jews are called to Hate homosexuals, so please don't try to imply that I am :)

[jefhatfield]

Ok... I often see / hear people say that Christians hate homosexuals, because of versus that appear in the bible... usually the one in Leviticus is quoted as it was in the thread about homosexuality in zanzibar. Here is the thing, the Levitical law was written for the Jewish people and is found originally in the Torah. As it says numerous times in the New Testimant; with Christ the old law (levitical, Mosaic, etc.) is passed away and superceded by the two "greatest commandments" (see Matt 20 for 1 example of this dialouge) These commandments are "love your Lord you God with all your mind, body and soul" and "love your neighbor as yourself"

Now yes, I am aware that homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testimant once in 1 Cor. 6:9 - "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God."

But as you can see this verse is saying that unrepented (unrighteous) sinners, and then it lists various sin including homosexuality, won't enter heaven. But there is no disctintion between homosexuality and drunkeness.

My point is this.. as a Christian we are called to live and love as Christ did. I feel that homosexuality is a sin, but it is no bigger or worse a sin than stealing, lieing, etc. And I certainly don't hate or want to put to death homosexuals as people would like to imply with the Levitical quote. Levitical Law and the New Testemant commandment are two different statements for two different sets of people at two different times. As a Christian I am called to the New Testemant commandment of love. So, if you meet a Christian that hates homosexuals as people, you might want to ask them to take a serious look at there spiritual life. Feeling it is a sin and hating those in it are very different. I would like to think that if I was ever in the same town as Vniow, if she could accept me for who I am, we could do lunch.

Paul

P.S. I am not saying that Jews are called to Hate homosexuals, so please don't try to imply that I am :)

in most cases, christians who hate anybody are not christians

this is where the term christian has to be clearly identified...is christ living in you as your personal savior, or are you a christian because you are rich, white, baptist member, southerner, american citizen, not a muslim, or whatever?

[blue&whiteman]

Leviticus also has passages that speak of the sin of eating pork, seafood etc. yet christians still do eat it. if they can overlook the food guidelines of the bible then why not the homosexuality ones?

its hypocritical..

[pdham]

Thank you jefhatfield that is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote my post


blue&whiteman

You missed my point completely. As a Christian that follows the law of Christ, the laws in the old testement are superceded by the Commandment to Love God with all your mind, body and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself. (if you do this you would find yourself trying not to sin) Those words are in the Bible (NT), so I am not being hypocritical. That means I dont have to eat pork and I don't hate homosexuals. I know that homosexuality is a sin because it is said to be a sin in numerous places in the Bible, including the new testemant. But, as a follower of Christ I am called not to hate anyone who sins, but in fact love them more. There is nothing hypocritical with these statements. I know how to act and love because Christ said he is the new law above all else, that means I don't hold to Levitical law, I hold to Christly law.

Paul

[jefhatfield]

Leviticus also has passages that speak of the sin of eating pork, seafood etc. yet christians still do eat it. if they can overlook the food guidelines of the bible then why not the homosexuality ones?

its hypocritical..

but christianity is a huge faith with many different ideas

there are gay churches and gay friendly churches out there and they consider themselves christians...i have never heard them call themselves bhuddists, muslims, or hindus

and then there are messianic jews who believe in christ but have some of the old jewish customs in their lives

the bible is clear in some ways and vague in others...if it was written out, let's say like the writings of the jehovah witnesses which go so far as to say which men in the world can have beards and which can't, etc etc etc, then there would be "one" christianity

but as it stands, the gaps in the bible leave a lot to interpretation and that is why there are thousands of denominations, sects, and yes...cults...within the umbrella definition of "chistianity"

[bousozoku]

Leviticus also has passages that speak of the sin of eating pork, seafood etc. yet christians still do eat it. if they can overlook the food guidelines of the bible then why not the homosexuality ones?

its hypocritical..

There are many who complain about homosexuals while eating bacon, but if you challenged them, they would start calling you a sinner. :D

Christianity is whatever you want it to be. If you don't like one set of beliefs, move to another church, pick up a different Bible--there's always one to please. ;) I still find it difficult to believe that you can radically change the meaning and call it the same book. (Vulgate->King James version->NIV)

For those who are enlightened, great! For those who want to persecute and claim that you're being persecuted, go away!

Obviously, pdham is enlightened--even his name has a pork product in it. ;) :D

[Neserk]

Now yes, I am aware that homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testimant once in 1 Cor. 6:9 - "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God."


that is a bad translation. Only in Romans is homosexuality condemned. THe one in Corinthians is either about pedastry (similar to pedophilia) or homosexual prostitution. It is not the homosexual part that is being condemned, but rather the prostitution, specifically linked to temple worship of "other gods."

Oh, and fornication includes oral sex for anyone, even a married couple ;)

[Krizoitz]

As far as I'm concerned and what my faith teaches, homosexual acts are sinful, just like adultery or pre-marital sex, or lying, etc.

This doesn't make people who commit those acts evil. Nor does it mean we should focus our efforts on condemning them. I have friends who do things I may not agree with but I realize that the choices they are making are their own, and not mine to make.

Christianity is above all about tolerance and forgiveness. While individual Christians may make mistakes, that isn't a sign that something is wrong with Christianity its to be expected. We are fallible human beings and the whole reason Jesus died was to forgive us of our sins. Being Christian doesn't make you perfect, it just means that are trying to be a better person.

[jefhatfield]

Oh, and fornication includes oral sex for anyone, even a married couple ;)

i went to a very conservative bible college, and as much as one would like to think this is the case, there is no scriptural basis for this

one famous christian radio host thought oral sex was great in marriage, even necessary, but it had to always be in the context of foreplay...so far, i have not seen anything in the bible saying this either

and he was into the missionary only position...i guess that's also in one of paul's hidden letters which i somehow was not privvy to ;)

[SlyHunter]

i went to a very conservative bible college, and as much as one would like to think this is the case, there is no scriptural basis for this

one famous christian radio host thought oral sex was great in marriage, even necessary, but it had to always be in the context of foreplay...so far, i have not seen anything in the bible saying this either

and he was into the missionary only position...i guess that's also in one of paul's hidden letters which i somehow was not privvy to ;)
I think it is Catholics belief that you never have sex except to make a brat. Thus they can solidly defend no condoms, no rythym method, no homosexuality or any other thing that won't produce a kid. Overlooking human realities.

I believe Jesus equated Homosexuality with beastiality, but Jesus was a man with his own opinions even while doing the works of God. God forgives any sin if you place them on Jesus or so my bible says. That would include adultery and homosexuality. And none of us are without sin.

[Daveman Deluxe]

While it is true that only one sin is unforgivable (and it's not homosexual acts), we are also instructed not to continue living in sin. Biblically speaking, we should be looking upon those who commit homosexual acts as a way of life the same way we do those that have addictions to pornography, or have alcohol problems, or any other sin that has become a lifestyle.

[mactastic]

While it is true that only one sin is unforgivable (and it's not homosexual acts), we are also instructed not to continue living in sin. Biblically speaking, we should be looking upon those who commit homosexual acts as a way of life the same way we do those that have addictions to pornography, or have alcohol problems, or any other sin that has become a lifestyle.

Homosexuality is not a 'lifestyle' nor is it an 'agenda'. It's just people wanting to be together not harming anyone else. Just like you and I do.

[SlyHunter]

Homosexuality is not a 'lifestyle' nor is it an 'agenda'. It's just people wanting to be together not harming anyone else. Just like you and I do.

Lifestyle A way of life or styleof living that reflects the attitudes and values of an individual or group.

[zimv20]

absent religion, would people still hate and/or fear homosexuality?

[pseudobrit]

I think it is Catholics belief that you never have sex except to make a brat. Thus they can solidly defend no condoms, no rythym method, no homosexuality or any other thing that won't produce a kid. Overlooking human realities.

You're wrong, but it's not surprising given your short track record.

The Catholic Church teaches that contraceptives should not be used because they interfere with the nature of the gift of sex, which allows for the chance of procreation. To deliberately and artificially block this aspect of sex is considered an insult to God and abusing His gift for nothing but pleasure.

And Catholics are encouraged to use the rythm method.

You're not "only allowed to have sex to produce a child," because the Church isn't stupid enough to think that God gave us such a wonderful experience so we could only enjoy it while deliberately trying to get pregnant.

I believe Jesus equated Homosexuality with beastiality

Where?

[Neserk]

i went to a very conservative bible college, and as much as one would like to think this is the case, there is no scriptural basis for this


I trump your bible college with Seminary. ;)

"Fornication" is the catch all word for anything that isn't straight intercourse.

[Neserk]

I believe Jesus equated Homosexuality with beastiality, but Jesus was a man with his own opinions even while doing the works of God.

Jesus never so much as mentions homosexuality. Not once. Go figure. I guess it wasn't his issue.

[vniow]

Homosexuality is not a 'lifestyle' nor is it an 'agenda'. It's just people wanting to be together not harming anyone else. Just like you and I do.

You have no idea how much I want to scream when someone called homosexuality a lifestyle of mentions the "homosexual agenda".

ARRRRRRRRGH!!!

[Krizoitz]

You have no idea how much I want to scream when someone called homosexuality a lifestyle of mentions the "homosexual agenda".

ARRRRRRRRGH!!!

Unfortunately the term "lifestyle" and especially "agenda" has a negative conotation to it, but in discussing this from a religious perspective you have to understand that that is how it may be viewed. Whether or not someone has homosexual urges the act of living with a homosexual partner and/or having a more than a platonic relationship with them IS a lifestyle. It is a choice you make, not to have those feelings necessarily but to act on them.

I know that you may disagree with this from your perspective, but think about it this way, if you are a person who doesn't believe in God you might consider Christianity to be nothing more than myth. No different than ancient Greek beliefs from your perspective. If you take a religion class at a non-religious school you may speak about that religion in academic terms because you don't believe that religion is more than a persons beliefs.

Likewise because in this case we are talking about the Christian perspective, many people see the way openly homosexual people live as a lifestyle, because they feel that it is a wrong way to live. No one can say with any certainity in this life whether they are wrong or right. Its all about beliefs. To someone who truly believes that homosexual acts are wrong nothing you say to them can convince them it is ok anymore than you can convince them that adultery is ok. That does NOT mean that people who are Christians and who don't think homosexuality is right should hate homosexuals. Jesus taught us to be forgiving and compassionate.

The bottom line is that whether you feel it is a lifestyle or not, and you are perfectly justified in holding your own beliefs, other people feel that it IS a lifestyle and because of how they view homosexuality it is a valid view point for them. You don't have to agree with it, but if you want to have any meaningful kind of discussion with them, and try and convince them of your view you have to admit that they have a right to their opinion.

[skunk]

This is SUCH a futile debate! We have here different interpretations of a collection of quotations from a 2000-year old book which has been translated with varying degrees of accuracy, being used to justify positions on a modern obsession. How many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?
I get the impression that those who think homosexuality is sinful/disgusting/unnatural/criminal are those who are not secure in their own sexuality. What business is it of anyone's?

[blue&whiteman]

christianity is far too controlling and that goes for all christian religions. I personally think the bible only ever existed to control people.

the plain and simple truth and logic is that you can do whatever you want in life as long as it does not affect someone else directly in a negative way.

christianity needs to mind is own damn business and leave homosexuals alone.

back off bible thumpers!

[SlyHunter]

Some people have an uncontrolled desire (genetic or not doesn't matter) to steal its called kleptomania. It is easy to understand they have that desire but Christians expect them to fight it and to show character and to not steal. It is called a test of character and some would consider it their personally test from God. Whether it is or not is immaterial.

Same thing Adultery. Some men would say we are genetically made to "have to" spread our seed as a way to protect our genetic future, or assure our DNA continuity. Another test of character. Christians would expect them to fight this and not commit adultery.

Homosexuality, some people say they are born that way. If they were born that way then it would have to be genetics. Thus they are not guilty for being attracted to the same sex. They are guilty for following thru on that feeling.

Fat people genetically programmed to eat lots and lots of ice cream (I know some aint).

Drunks genetically program to be alchoholics. Just because an alchoholic is sober and goes to AAA doesn't mean he's not an alchoholic it just means he finally learned to fight his own physical genetic disposition and be a man and use his brain in stead of his misprogrammed instinct.

There are allot of things that fall under this category and homosexuality is just one of them.

[mactastic]

There are allot of things that fall under this category and homosexuality is just one of them.

Yeah, hetroseuality, Christianity, war-mongering, tax dodging, lying, corruption, all lifestyles.

Can you cure yourself of hetrosexuality?

[skunk]

Some people have an uncontrolled desire (genetic or not doesn't matter) to steal its called kleptomania. It is easy to understand they have that desire but Christians expect them to fight it and to show character and to not steal. It is called a test of character and some would consider it their personally test from God.
What utter tripe! Kleptomania, like other obsessive disorders, is by definition a psychological problem. It's no more useful to tell a kleptomaniac to control his or her obsession than tell a schizophrenic to pull themselves together.

Same thing Adultery. Some men would say we are genetically made to "have to" spread our seed as a way to protect our genetic future, or assure our DNA continuity.
Adultery is a moral question, not a psychological compulsion, except in VERY rare cases.

Homosexuality, some people say they are born that way. If they were born that way then it would have to be genetics. Thus they are not guilty for being attracted to the same sex. They are guilty for following thru on that feeling.
We have no idea if it's genetics or not. Why would they be guilty for following their desires? What happened to the Pursuit of Happiness? What business is it of yours? What business is it of the Church? Any Church? Methinks they do protest too much. They should come out of the closet.

Fat people genetically programmed to eat lots and lots of ice cream (I know some aint).

Drunks genetically program to be alchoholics. Just because an alchoholic is sober and goes to AAA doesn't mean he's not an alchoholic it just means he finally learned to fight his own physical genetic disposition and be a man and use his brain in stead of his misprogrammed instinct.

You are, as usual, conflating completely unrelated ideas. As far as I am aware, homosexuality is not an addiction.

[blue&whiteman]

slyhunter is not even a mac user and has not made one post outside of the ones about homosexuality. he seems like a really fascist gay basher and I think we have all tolerated him long enough. I am positive he is just here to troll.

[skunk]

slyhunter is not even a mac user and has not made one post outside of the ones about homosexuality. he seems like a really fascist gay basher and I think we have all tolerated him long enough. I am positive he is just here to troll.
Oh no. He's been scattering his crap all over the Political threads. A right tosser if you ask me.

[SlyHunter]

slyhunter is not even a mac user and has not made one post outside of the ones about homosexuality. he seems like a really fascist gay basher and I think we have all tolerated him long enough. I am positive he is just here to troll.
First off you don't know whether I'm a mac user or not. Just because I put IBM in my profile doesn't mean anything.

Second off honestly I did a google search for "forums iraq war" and this is number 3 on that list. And that is why I'm here nothing to do with this homosexual thread. Because I am not here to participate in the mac forums about mac computers does not mean I don't have anything to participate in the political forums. When you have become near the top of the list of a google search for political discussion like you are now more and more people will be attracted to this site that also aren't here to discuss computers. Chasing them off is a narrow minded way to do things.

Third off I was reply to a specific theory or thought under a specific assumption for the purpose of discussion. My personal beliefs actually is libertarian meaning everyone (including homosexuals) should be free to do any damn thing they chose as long as it does not interfere with anothers right to do the same.

I am not a homophobe because I don't think homosexual marriage should be legalized. (I'm repeating myself cuzz sounds like you never read this) In fact I don't think the US government should be involved in regulating marriage at all. I think its should be a private affair. I think marriage should not be a method of filling taxes. The only time the courts should get involved in a marriage is if they wrote contracts that they require all in the marriage to comply to and someone sued for a violation of that contract and that would be via state courts not National courts. I think the homosexuals are going the wrong way in trying to force America to legalize the marriage. I think it would be smarter to get the National government completly out of marriage regulation. Let us be to do things our own way. You see the very same legal marriage statue keeps mormons and islamics from legally marrying more than one woman, to keep other from having what is called block or line marriages. There is allot more at stake here than just homosexual marriages.

Yes on a seperate note I do not look forward to explaining to a child 7 or even 12 years old why two men are holding hands. But maybe that is something I'm going to have to get use to. That is for the future to tell. And someone replied the last time I posted that sentence and the answer is no here it is not a common sight.

BTW sometimes my heart does not agree with my brain. Sometimes I argue with my heart and sometimes I argue with my brain. Sometimes I play devils advocate. Sometimes I don't.

[numediaman]

slyhunter is not even a mac user and has not made one post outside of the ones about homosexuality. he seems like a really fascist gay basher and I think we have all tolerated him long enough. I am positive he is just here to troll.

That's what I wrote the day he appeared: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=795375#post795375

But he seems to like to post everywhere except the computer forums. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to his PC use. Maybe a few days with iLife would mellow him out.

[numediaman]

BTW sometimes my heart does not agree with my brain. Sometimes I argue with my heart and sometimes I argue with my brain. Sometimes I play devils advocate. Sometimes I don't.

I have no comment here -- I just wanted to see this again -- it's a classic.

[skunk]

BTW sometimes my heart does not agree with my brain. Sometimes I argue with my heart and sometimes I argue with my brain. Sometimes I play devils advocate. Sometimes I don't.
One more time, just for you, numediaperson!

[Krizoitz]

This is SUCH a futile debate! We have here different interpretations of a collection of quotations from a 2000-year old book which has been translated with varying degrees of accuracy, being used to justify positions on a modern obsession. How many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?
I get the impression that those who think homosexuality is sinful/disgusting/unnatural/criminal are those who are not secure in their own sexuality. What business is it of anyone's?

I am very secure in my sexuality, and I still feel homosexuality is wrong, and yes I believe in the Bible, which to ME is not just some old book. I don't ask you to believe it, but if you ever expect anyone to treat your views with respect you might well do them the same courtesy.

You're attitude towards Christianity seems to be exactly what you are accusing others of. You group them all together and attack them without taking into account that youare dealing with a lot of individuals, who are human.

While it is true many people hate in the name of Christianity this is not what Christianity is. People hate for a lot of reasons, none of them good ones. Religion is not why people hate, its just a convenient excuse.

While it is true that Christianity teaches that homosexual acts are a sin it does NOT call for the hatred of anyone regardless of their sins.

If you want to use my beliefs or anyones beliefs as a reason to hate them then you are no better than the people you claim to have such a problem with.

[skunk]

I am very secure in my sexuality, and I still feel homosexuality is wrong
Why? Do you have a reason?

and yes I believe in the Bible, which to ME is not just some old book. I don't ask you to believe it, but if you ever expect anyone to treat your views with respect you might well do them the same courtesy.
Nor is it "some old book" to me. It's is a unique and wonderful semi-historical, semi-mythological record of what people did and believed at different times in that part of the world. However, since it contains many internal contradictions, using it to dictate the minutiae of your life seems pretty counter-productive.

You're attitude towards Christianity seems to be exactly what you are accusing others of. You group them all together and attack them without taking into account that youare dealing with a lot of individuals, who are human.
I'm not attacking anyone. Why would I?

While it is true that Christianity teaches that homosexual acts are a sin it does NOT call for the hatred of anyone regardless of their sins.
Christianity teaches no such thing. Quotes in refutation from nothing later than the Septuagint, please. Who has mentioned hatred here? And how can you be so patronizing anout people's sins?

If you want to use my beliefs or anyones beliefs as a reason to hate them then you are no better than the people you claim to have such a problem with.
Are we in the same thread?

[vniow]

The bottom line is that whether you feel it is a lifestyle or not, and you are perfectly justified in holding your own beliefs, other people feel that it IS a lifestyle and because of how they view homosexuality it is a valid view point for them. You don't have to agree with it, but if you want to have any meaningful kind of discussion with them, and try and convince them of your view you have to admit that they have a right to their opinion.

Of course people have differing views, my problem with people calling homosexuality a lifestyle is that I feel its an incorect usage of the word.

A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lifestyle

You keep on talking about homosexuality from the outside perspective, only looking at the acts. Hate to tell you this but being a homosexual isn't about having sex with someone of the same gender, its being attracted to them in the first place. I don't see any definition of the word "lifestyle" that has to do with the feelings a person has, how I feel about a person is not reflective of my attitudes or my values on life. I simply feel a certain way about another person.

[takao]

i am catholic and i have no problem with homosexual persons and yes they should be allowed to marry

as long as they don't try to convert me ;)

hm but i guess i'm a 'bad' catholic because i never went to church in the last 6 years and i never read the whole bible only a few chapters
i don't even have a bible or a cross on the wall (but i think i have a small one somewhere in my old things i'll have to look that up)
and from my friends hm ..the same there

it had a influence on my ethics & moral but i don't think everything in it is right..

to be very religious (going to church once a week and reading in the bible) just have the aura of being old around it , well at least it is this way where i live i guess this is different anywhere else perhaps we were just "the year of the infidels" ;-)

[skunk]

i am catholic and i have no problem with homosexual persons and yes they should be allowed to marry

as long as they don't try to convert me ;)

hm but i guess i'm a 'bad' catholic because i never went to church in the last 6 years and i never read the whole bible only a few chapters
i don't even have a bible or a cross on the wall (but i think i have a small one somewhere in my old things i'll have to look that up)
and from my friends hm ..the same there

it had a influence on my ethics & moral but i don't think everything in it is right..

to be very religious (going to church once a week and reading in the bible) just have the aura of being old around it , well at least it is this way where i live i guess this is different anywhere else perhaps we were just "the year of the infidels" ;-)

Being religious has nothing to do with going to church. That's a social thing.

[pseudobrit]

They are guilty for following thru on that feeling.

Whatever happened to "hate the sin, not the sinner." You've already found them guilty.

Should we castrate them? Since your solution to stopping welfare moms from having babies is forced sterilisation, I'd like to know if castrating homosexuals is within your ideology.

[SlyHunter]

Whatever happened to "hate the sin, not the sinner." You've already found them guilty.

Should we castrate them? Since your solution to stopping welfare moms from having babies is forced sterilisation, I'd like to know if castrating homosexuals is within your ideology.
1. I was speaking phylosophically.
2. God found them guilty. I'm guilty of a few things too tho.

This does not detract from the fact that they are free to sin or not sin as they see fit. I don't think making a law that legallizes homosexuality is the right thing to do. Neither is Bush trying to make the legal deffinition of marriage between a man and a woman. I think from the National government's position we should all be equals just some live at the same address and whether we consider ourselves married to someone else or not is not their business.

[skunk]

1. I was speaking phylosophically.
You're WHAT??
2. God found them guilty.
When? How? What court? What was the sentence?
Talk sense.

I think from the National government's position we should all be equals just some live at the same address and whether we consider ourselves married to someone else or not is not their business.
Now I'm REALLY worried. I almost agree with you...