Iraqi nuclear facilities remain unguarded.

[diamond geezer]

link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040415.wnuke0415/BNStory/International/)

United Nations — Iraq's nuclear facilities remain unguarded, and radioactive materials are being taken out of the country, the UN's nuclear watchdog agency reported after reviewing satellite images and equipment that has turned up in European scrap yards.


The International Atomic Energy Agency sent a letter to U.S. officials three weeks ago informing them of the findings. The information was also sent to the UN Security Council in a letter from its director, Mohamed ElBaradei, that was circulated Thursday.


The IAEA is waiting for a reply from the United States, which is leading the coalition administering Iraq, officials said.


The United States has virtually cut off information-sharing with the IAEA since invading Iraq in March, 2002, on the premise that the country was hiding weapons of mass destruction.


No such weapons have been found, and arms-control officials now worry that the war and its chaotic aftermath may have increased chances that terrorists could get their hands on materials used for unconventional weapons or that civilians may be unknowingly exposed to radioactive materials.


According to Dr. ElBaradei's letter, satellite imagery shows “extensive removal of equipment and, in some instances, removal of entire buildings” in Iraq.


In addition, “large quanitities of scrap, some of it contaminated, have been transferred out of Iraq from sites” previously monitored by the IAEA.


In January, the IAEA confirmed that Iraq was the likely source of radioactive material known as yellowcake that was found in a shipment of scrap metal at Rotterdam harbour.


Yellowcake (uranium oxide) could be used to build a nuclear weapon, although it would take tonnes of the substance refined with sophisticated technology to harvest enough uranium for a single bomb.


The yellowcake in the shipment was natural uranium ore that probably came from a known mine in Iraq that was active before the 1991 Persian Gulf war.


The yellowcake was uncovered Dec. 16 by Rotterdam-based scrap-metal company Jewometaal, which had received it in a shipment of scrap metal from a dealer in Jordan.


A small number of Iraqi missile engines have also turned up in European ports, IAEA officials said.


“It is not clear whether the removal of these items has been the result of looting activities in the aftermath of the recent war in Iraq or as part of systematic efforts to rehabilitate some of their locations,” Dr. ElBaradei wrote to the council.


The IAEA has been unable to investigate, monitor or protect Iraqi nuclear materials since the U.S. invaded the country in March, 2003. The United States has refused to allow the IAEA or other UN weapons inspectors into the country, saying that the coalition has taken over responsibility for illicit weapons searches.

Yet more proof that this whole BS war, was never about WOMD getting into the hands of terrorist. If it was, they wouldn't be letting this happen.

[SlyHunter]

didn't someone post in another thread how Iraq didn't have a nuclear wpns program? This proves them wrong.

[pseudobrit]

didn't someone post in another thread how Iraq didn't have a nuclear wpns program? This proves them wrong.

What the hell are you talking about? You really do just make **** up.

This is yellowcake, uranium ore left over from Iraq's nuclear reactor programme (which were bombed by Israel).

These facilities were publicly known, as were the materials left over. The yellowcake barrels were sealed and monitored by the UN until the invasion. Then the sites were looted.

Do some research. Or maybe you could fabricate a story about how the uranium mines encourage camels to have sex, too.

[mactastic]

didn't someone post in another thread how Iraq didn't have a nuclear wpns program? This proves them wrong.

Did you read the article? From said article:
No such weapons have been found, and arms-control officials now worry that the war and its chaotic aftermath may have increased chances that terrorists could get their hands on materials used for unconventional weapons or that civilians may be unknowingly exposed to radioactive materials.

My emphasis

I thought you guys knew where the weapons were... They're in the areas south and west of Baghdad? Sound familiar?

Yellowcake is not a nu-cu-lar weapon. Mining uranium from the ground isn't a nu-cu-lar weapons program.

Or is 'nu-cul-lar weapons related program activities' all you've got now?

[SlyHunter]

I also read this in that article

A small number of Iraqi missile engines have also turned up in European ports, IAEA officials said.

[mactastic]

I also read this in that article

So what? Rockets over what, an 80 mile range were banned? Did it say what size rockets those were?

[SlyHunter]

So what? Rockets over what, an 80 mile range were banned? Did it say what size rockets those were?
rockets can be used to fire with this in its head which was also posted in that article.

Yellowcake (uranium oxide) could be used to build a nuclear weapon, although it would take tonnes of the substance refined with sophisticated technology to harvest enough uranium for a single bomb.

kinda wierd stuck out mentioning missile in a report about nuclear power plants. Just kinda put 2 and 2 together.

[pseudobrit]

So what? Rockets over what, an 80 mile range were banned? Did it say what size rockets those were?

It did not. And therefore it is irrelevant. The article provides no "proof" of banned weapons.

[mactastic]

rockets can be used to fire with this in its head which was also posted in that article.

kinda wierd stuck out mentioning missile in a report about nuclear power plants. Just kinda put 2 and 2 together.

But dirty bombs aren't nuclear weapons. You said nuclear weapons.

[pseudobrit]

rockets can be used to fire with this in its head which was also posted in that article.

I don't see that. Where do you?

kinda wierd stuck out mentioning missile in a report about nuclear power plants. Just kinda put 2 and 2 together.

It's uranium oxide. I have a chunk of it in my house somewhere. We're not talking about plutonium here, we're talking very low level stuff.

And you're putting 2 and 2 together alright, but you're coming up with 53.

[mactastic]

It's uranium oxide. I have a chunk of it in my house somewhere.

John Ashcroft will be at your house shortly. I knew you were one of them! :eek:

[SlyHunter]

CNN) -- The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology -- parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.

The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein's then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.

U.S. officials emphasized this was not evidence Iraq had a nuclear weapon -- but it was evidence the Iraqis concealed plans to reconstitute their nuclear program as soon as the world was no longer looking.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/

[SlyHunter]

Iraq's revised declaration of 7 July l991 included reference to its research and development activities involving the recovery of plutonium from the reprocessing of nuclear material irradiated in the IRT-5000 research reactor. Subsequent inspection confirmed that there had been three reprocessing campaigns, carried out in the hot cells of the radio-chemical laboratory at Tuwaitha, and that some five grams of plutonium had been recovered. This activity was complemented by project 182, which aimed at the design and indigenous construction of a 40 MW natural uranium/heavy water research reactor and would have provided the basis for a capability to produce and separate substantial amounts of weapon-usable plutonium. [S/1997/779]

Of immense assistance to the uncovering of Iraq's clandestine nuclear programme was the large cache of documentation obtained during the sixth and seventh on-site inspection campaigns, carried out between 22 September and 22 October l991. These documents provided a comprehensive insight into that part of the programme which had been developed under the code name Petrochemical Project 3 (PC-3). Although, on 23 September, Iraq had forcibly removed the bulk of these documents from IAEA custody for a period of about six hours, during which time, according to Iraq's later statement, it had cataloqued the reports and removed all documents relating to PC-3 Group 4 (weaponisation), the IAEA had been able to secure a number of documents which provided incontrovertible evidence that the real mission of the A1 Atheer facility was the development and production of nuclear weapons. [S/1997/779]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/nuke/iaea.htm

The above is old news sorry however in the last paragraph of that story.

There are a large number of unresolved issues regarding Iraq's nuclear weapons program. These issues were raised by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in its October 1997 consolidated inspection report, but were never resolved in subsequent IAEA reports. Important questions remain to be answered in the areas of weapons design; centrifuge research and development; missing weapon components and equipment; remaining uranium stocks; the EMIS ("calutron") enrichment program; Iraq's reporting to the IAEA and its efforts to conceal elements of its weapons program from the Agency; and post-war nuclear program activities. [NCI 980512] Even at the present level of highly intrusive monitoring and inspections, under some scenarios, Iraq might be able to construct a nuclear explosive before it was detected. All Iraq lacks for a nuclear bomb is the fissile material.

[mactastic]

Try again. Those were buried since like 1992. Definetly not a nuclear weapon. Not even a nuclear program. You're getting desperate now. Just admit you were wrong about this being proof.

[SlyHunter]

Try again. Those were buried since like 1992. Definetly not a nuclear weapon. Not even a nuclear program. You're getting desperate now. Just admit you were wrong about this being proof.
I'm wrong about it being solid evidence that I thought it was when I first read your post.

However the potential for him being able to build a nuclear program when nobody was looking was great and it appears that he was established to do just that when/if he ever decided to do so, which he doesn't seem to have gotten the chance since the US invaded and ruined that possibility.

[pseudobrit]

Try again. Those were buried since like 1992. Definetly not a nuclear weapon. Not even a nuclear program. You're getting desperate now. Just admit you were wrong about this being proof.

Notice he's not talking about the yellowcake or the original article anymore, but instead has gone fishing for unrelated "proof" since his initial reaction was so dead wrong.

Also notice we aren't talking about the topic at hand any longer, which is that nuclear sites still aren't being guarded.

[pseudobrit]

I'm wrong about it being solid evidence that I thought it was when I first read your post.

However the potential for him being able to build a nuclear program when nobody was looking was great and it appears that he was established to do just that when/if he ever decided to do so, which he doesn't seem to have gotten the chance since the US invaded and ruined that possibility.

He lacked any quantity of fissile material. You know you can't build any sort of nuclear weapon unless you have a significant quantity of fissile material, right? And such fissile material is not something you stumble onto in the free market or in a mine. It requires special types of nuclear reactors that produce very small amounts of weapons grade material. Iraq did not have these types of reactors and did not have access to weapons grade elements.

[diamond geezer]

Perhaps SlyHunter would like to make a comment on what this thread is actually about, namely what's happened since the US took control (if that's what you can call it) of Iraq.

[SlyHunter]

Perhaps SlyHunter would like to make a comment on what this thread is actually about, namely what's happened since the US took control (if that's what you can call it) of Iraq.
I read something into that that wasn't there. I then went on looking for sources that continue on the topic that interests me.

I don't have anything to add on topic because I'm not there I don't know and yes the place should be guarded better. I hope they have a good reason for not guarding it better.

[mactastic]

I hope they have a good reason for not guarding it better.

They don't. It's poor planning.

[zimv20]

I don't have anything to add on topic because I'm not there
i like your new empiricist policy

[pseudobrit]

I don't have anything to add on topic

Then kindly refrain from posting.

[Ugg]

Just goes to show that all gw was interested in was the oil. All major oil facilities were taken over immediately but everything else was just abandoned to the elements.

I'm sure that if an unconventional weapon is made from any of the materials found that will be "proof" to the neocons that SH was building WMD. Couldn't gw be considered aiding and abetting terrorists by failing to secure such facilities? Certainly there must be something in the Patriot Act that he could be prosecuted under.

[3rdpath]

I don't have anything to add on topic because I'm not there I don't know and yes the place should be guarded better. I hope they have a good reason for not guarding it better.



add a smirk and you have george himself...

[skunk]

Couldn't gw be considered aiding and abetting terrorists by failing to secure such facilities? Certainly there must be something in the Patriot Act that he could be prosecuted under.
I would have thought that "culpable negligence" should do it.

[SlyHunter]

Just goes to show that all gw was interested in was the oil. All major oil facilities were taken over immediately but everything else was just abandoned to the elements.

I'm sure that if an unconventional weapon is made from any of the materials found that will be "proof" to the neocons that SH was building WMD. Couldn't gw be considered aiding and abetting terrorists by failing to secure such facilities? Certainly there must be something in the Patriot Act that he could be prosecuted under.
Your so busy trying to find Bush guilty for something but you completly ignored the post in another thread that I posted to Kerry's own voice played on RM file stating he himself has committed war crimes. The truth is more important than unsubstatiated allegations, their only point is to make those such as yourself feel better cause it looks to me like your agenda is simply to feel better and make Bush look bad. Nothing he could do would look good in your eyes no matter how hard he tried, or how perfect he was.

yes its not on the original topic but it is a proper reply to this comment.

[skunk]

Your so busy trying to find Bush guilty for something but you completly ignored the post in another thread that I posted to Kerry's own voice played on RM file stating he himself has committed war crimes.
Wouldn't it be GREAT if Little George was big enough to admit a mistake or two himself? His performance the other night was mind-blowingly pathetic.

[numediaman]

Just goes to show that all gw was interested in was the oil. All major oil facilities were taken over immediately but everything else was just abandoned to the elements.

Bush, being the environmental president, wanted to secure the oil fields to prevent an environmental disaster. Now that we control Iraq, the Bush team is installing an array of wind turbines in order to make Iraq a shining example for the rest of the middle east . . .

. . . or something like that.

[skunk]

Bush, being the environmental president, wanted to secure the oil fields to prevent an environmental disaster. Now that we control Iraq, the Bush team is installing an array of wind turbines in order to make Iraq a shining example for the rest of the middle east . . .

. . . or something like that.

Careful: SlyHunter will be using this as a pro-Bush quote in his next post.

[Sayhey]

Your so busy trying to find Bush guilty for something but you completly ignored the post in another thread that I posted to Kerry's own voice played on RM file stating he himself has committed war crimes.

You keep repeating this crap in order to spread the rumor that Kerry was a "war criminal." This is, from a right wing site, what Kerry is supposed to have said on the Dick Cavett show,

"I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that," he told Cavett. "However, I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground."

Kerry continued:

"And all of these acts, I find out later on, are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty."

link (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/21/92521.shtml)

His admitting to taking part in war crimes was his admission that he took part in the military tactics commonly used in Vietnam. The implication on your part is that he was out killing civilians and taking body part trophies like some of our troops did. He never said he did such things and no responsible discussion of Kerry's military career would even hint that he did such things. You are so afraid of an honest comparison of Bush and Kerry's service during that time you will make up any type of slander your fevered brain can imagine. Now try and get back to the topic of the thread instead of spewing such nonsense.

[IJ Reilly]

Notice how we're no longer talking about the failure to protect nuclear facilities in Iraq. The discussion is always diverted away from unpleasant topics.

[Sayhey]

Notice how we're no longer talking about the failure to protect nuclear facilities in Iraq. The discussion is always diverted away from unpleasant topics.

My bet is that the State Department's plans that Rummy threw out had some provision for the safeguarding the nuclear facilities. I'm also willing to bet that General Shinseki's plan for several hundred thousand troops would also have included the use of some of these troops for just such a purpose. Do you think Rummy, Wolfowitz, Bremer, and by extension their bosses Bush and Cheney just might bear some responsibility for ignoring the advice of people who actually thought this stuff through?

[numediaman]

Notice how we're no longer talking about the failure to protect nuclear facilities in Iraq. The discussion is always diverted away from unpleasant topics.

If Bush were anything close to a normal president, something like this would be discussed ad nauseum. But where do you start with this president?

[IJ Reilly]

If Bush were anything close to a normal president, something like this would be discussed ad nauseum. But where do you start with this president?

I'd rather think more along the lines of "where do you end?" with this President, but the point is taken.