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raymondu999
Apr 1, 2009, 08:24 AM
What's your favorite IDE, running natively on Mac OS? I've heard Eclipse is good, NetBeans... I've personally only used BlueJ and IntelliJ. Any other takers?



jeremy.king
Apr 1, 2009, 08:49 AM
PHP - Netbeans (http://www.netbeans.org), Coda (http://www.panic.com/coda/) - hoping macheist unlocks Espresso (http://macrabbit.com/espresso/)
Java - Eclipse (http://www.eclipse.org), Netbeans

uaecasher
Apr 1, 2009, 10:54 AM
for PHP = Dreamweaver

Edot
Apr 1, 2009, 11:44 AM
I have used NetBeans and IntelliJ, and I have to say IntelliJ is far superior to NetBeans in performance and usability/features, but of course it doesn't come free. I haven't used Eclipse in forever, so I can't say much about it.

I haven't gotten into OS X native development, so I haven't touched XCode much. Does anyone have experience using XCode for Java development? I don't want to spend the time learning XCode if it has obvious deficiencies with regards to Java.

Cromulent
Apr 1, 2009, 11:56 AM
C / Objective C = Xcode
PHP = Komodo Edit 5.1

raymondu999
Apr 1, 2009, 03:57 PM
I always thought that XCode was more oriented towards C++ and Obj-C? I heard it wasn't that good for Java.

What I do now is if I'm feeling brave, I go with TextMate, and in those IDE times, I use IntelliJ for Java. Anyone have recommendations which from experience is better than IntelliJ?:D

AlmostThere
Apr 1, 2009, 04:36 PM
All time favourite: Visual C++ 6. IMHO it set the standard for IDEs and was way ahead of anything on other platforms (although, equally, I have never found a simple text editor I really like on Windows).

Right now, IntelliJ, especially when you keep finding shortcuts for the things you are trying to do. It's great to think 'hey, someone has wanted to do this before ... and made it easy for me'.

Cromulent
Apr 2, 2009, 03:10 AM
What I do now is if I'm feeling brave, I go with TextMate, and in those IDE times, I use IntelliJ for Java. Anyone have recommendations which from experience is better than IntelliJ?:D

Just use TextMate. You don't really need an IDE at all, in fact coming to rely on an IDE is a bad idea. Eclipse is rubbish, NetBeans is okay but not great and I have never used IntelliJ.

sonnavi
Apr 2, 2009, 06:55 AM
PHP-Coda and Zend Studio for Eclipse
Java-Eclipse
CSS-CSSEdit
C/Opjective C- Xcode

John Jacob
Apr 2, 2009, 07:09 AM
You don't really need an IDE at all, in fact coming to rely on an IDE is a bad idea.

I second that. Just use Terminal and vi. Or xterm and nedit like I do. :D

raymondu999
Apr 2, 2009, 11:15 AM
vi? xterm? nedit? What!?:confused: Yeah I don't really use IDEs... I feel that really it serves no purpose, in a sense.

jeremy.king
Apr 2, 2009, 11:27 AM
vi? xterm? nedit? What!?:confused: Yeah I don't really use IDEs... I feel that really it serves no purpose, in a sense.

There are benefits, but I don't want this to be a debate. I myself encourage people who are LEARNING to avoid IDEs, however, once you understand programming it's up to you whether an IDE is valuable to the way you work.

I myself embrace the INTEGRATED part, where I can manage my workflow, SCM, and build management within a single tool...Compile on the fly and intellisense is nice too amongst many other features.

lazydog
Apr 2, 2009, 11:30 AM
Another vote for Coda! I really like its integration of ftp. Have used Eclipse but reverted to Xcode which I use for everything else. For messing around with graphics in Java, Processing is very good. Well I say good, the IDE is pretty crumby but the built in graphics libraries are great and the way it lets you write procedurally in Java makes it very easy and fun to mess around in.

For versioning I really like VersionApp and use that instead of the SCM of the IDEs.

b e n

Edot
Apr 2, 2009, 12:23 PM
Just use TextMate. You don't really need an IDE at all, in fact coming to rely on an IDE is a bad idea. Eclipse is rubbish, NetBeans is okay but not great and I have never used IntelliJ.


Actually, there is no reason NOT to use an IDE. If you are writing an application of any magnitude (more than a few files) using an IDE WILL increase your productivity. Arguing the contrary is just plain stubbornness.

lee1210
Apr 2, 2009, 12:50 PM
Actually, there is no reason NOT to use an IDE. If you are writing an application of any magnitude (more than a few files) using an IDE WILL increase your productivity. Arguing the contrary is just plain stubbornness.

Which is fine until you need to bang something out on a server that doesn't have X on it, and you don't know how to use gcc, javac, etc.

I will admit my bias, i work on a system with many thousands of source files, and we get by with vi and makefiles without issue. These are non-OO, so it makes more sense... i prefer to write OO code in an IDE for the code completion alone.

-Lee

DavidLeblond
Apr 2, 2009, 02:46 PM
Objective-C - XCode
PHP - TextMate
C# - Visual Studio 2008

Honestly I like Visual Studio 2008 out of all the IDEs, as much as that pains me to say.

Zortrium
Apr 4, 2009, 11:21 AM
Eclipse rocks for Java. I've also used it for C++ but I'm not as sold on that (haven't tried other C IDEs). For pretty much everything else (PHP, Perl, etc) I generally just use vim.

MacRumors Guy
Apr 4, 2009, 04:35 PM
A mix of TextMate and MacVim.

Eclipse is too slow for my tastes.

mathcolo
Apr 4, 2009, 10:04 PM
I prefer Coda, Espresso, or Dreamweaver for web design and development.

For Objective-C, I prefer Xcode.

For C++, C, Java, Ruby, or Python, I prefer a text editor like TextWrangler.

For all things code, I often times use Smultron.

Saladinos
Apr 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
There are benefits, but I don't want this to be a debate. I myself encourage people who are LEARNING to avoid IDEs, however, once you understand programming it's up to you whether an IDE is valuable to the way you work.

I myself embrace the INTEGRATED part, where I can manage my workflow, SCM, and build management within a single tool...Compile on the fly and intellisense is nice too amongst many other features.

Not using an IDE is stupid. It saves you time, and you're never going to be programming without using an IDE.

Cromulent
Apr 5, 2009, 12:36 PM
and you're never going to be programming without using an IDE.

Yes you are. There are numerous times when an IDE is not available.

XnavxeMiyyep
Apr 5, 2009, 12:38 PM
I second that. Just use Terminal and vi. Or xterm and nedit like I do. :D

I love vim, but when your language is as verbose as Objective-C, for instance, I would always use XCode.

Speaking of which, XCode is my favorite IDE.


If only there were a way to combine XCode with vim....

lee1210
Apr 5, 2009, 12:42 PM
Not using an IDE is stupid. It saves you time, and you're never going to be programming without using an IDE.

You may never be programming without an IDE available, but your case is not the only case. I program without one available all the time, and many others do as well. I would refer you to my post above.

To reiterate: when programming an OO language with large libraries, autocomplete/code complete/whatever the IDE calls its autocompletion is a must have for me, and I would use an IDE for all but the smallest of projects. This does not substitute for knowing how to use the applicable tools (a programmer's text editor, compiler/linker, debugger, etc.).

-Lee

Saladinos
Apr 5, 2009, 01:24 PM
You may never be programming without an IDE available, but your case is not the only case. I program without one available all the time, and many others do as well. I would refer you to my post above.

To reiterate: when programming an OO language with large libraries, autocomplete/code complete/whatever the IDE calls its autocompletion is a must have for me, and I would use an IDE for all but the smallest of projects. This does not substitute for knowing how to use the applicable tools (a programmer's text editor, compiler/linker, debugger, etc.).

-Lee

There are free IDEs for all languages on all platforms. You never have to be without it.

If you take programming seriously and do it for a living, you're going to HAVE to use an IDE.

Zortrium
Apr 5, 2009, 01:55 PM
There are free IDEs for all languages on all platforms. You never have to be without it.

If you take programming seriously and do it for a living, you're going to HAVE to use an IDE.

I think you're misunderstanding. True, if you take programming seriously and do it for a living, you're probably going to be using an IDE most of the time. However, it's important to avoid being dependent on an IDE, because for one, there are likely going to be a few times (if only infrequently) when you can't easily use an IDE, and for two, it's just a good idea to know what's actually going on underneath the fancy IDE. So while I'm all for using a slick program to speed up work and save lots of time, there's definitely something to be said for avoiding them while learning.

displaced
Apr 5, 2009, 02:26 PM
Coda for PHP
Xcode for native OS X/iPhone dev
nano for shell coding (not really an IDE :))
NetBeans for J2ME
Visual Studio 2008 for .NET stuff (I cry a little inside when I have to fire up VS2005 for something... 2008's much, much quicker and has a few extras which help out greatly)

yeroen
Apr 5, 2009, 03:52 PM
Emacs. Vim.

You have to be a Java person with the attendant love for the slow and bloaty to like Eclipse.

Zortrium
Apr 5, 2009, 04:55 PM
Emacs. Vim.

You have to be a Java person with the attendant love for the slow and bloaty to like Eclipse.

I don't get this argument. Though I came originally from a pure vim/command line background, Eclipse saves me massive amounts of time with useful shortcuts, autocomplete, refactoring, etc. Having tried to work on projects with hundreds of Java classes in a command line before, I can say that it sucks. Sure, Eclipse has tons of features that I never use and takes more than a second to start up, but who cares? I leave Eclipse open almost all the time on my machine and it does exactly what I need it to with minimal waiting.

lee1210
Apr 5, 2009, 09:56 PM
There are free IDEs for all languages on all platforms. You never have to be without it.

If you take programming seriously and do it for a living, you're going to HAVE to use an IDE.

I am not trying to be argumentative, and don't dispute your insistence on the use of an IDE, it can often be helpful and very powerful. However, I don't feel that the generalities that you are making apply as broadly as you seem to be insisting.

1) All platforms? There may be a way for me to forward an X-session from a 10 year old PA-RISC HP-UX 11.0 machine and run Eclipse on it (if i can get a modern JRE running on it), but even if could I don't know if our customers would appreciate using one of the two cores in the machine to do so. Just running gdb(Wildebeest variant from HP) from the command line seems more prudent. I'm also not so sure if Eclipse, or any other free (or non-free?) IDEs I could run on this sort of machine support fortran 77/90/95*... which leads into...

2) All languages? I'm not sure if there are IDEs for bash, and if so i can't imagine what benefit one would derive from them. A programmer's text editor with syntax highlighting is all that makes sense to me. Professionally I could probably find IDEs for the other languages in use regularly (fortran, C, C#, Java, perl, bash, SQL, some ruby, python, etc.), but for the non-OO ones I would not derive sufficient benefit from doing so.

3) "If you take programming seriously...". Careful there, that's moving from a spirited, informed technical conversation into personal territory. I'm a professional (both in behavior and for-pay, employed status) software developer/engineer/architect/what-have-you and take programming incredibly seriously. I pursued Computer Science academically, program professionally, program recreationally, research languages, methodologies, technologies, etc. for fun as well as what is required of me professionally, etc. I am sure there are other people that take programming seriously and are paid to do so that for technical, cultural, political, etc. reasons rarely use an IDE.

The point here is not that IDEs are bad. The point is that there are real situations that preclude their use (embedded systems programming, debugging customer problems on underpowered or locked down equipment, banging out quick scripts, etc.), and means of being productive without their use. They are great when you can use them and it makes sense. I just feel that if one has no idea what's happening underneath the IDE, they're missing a lot of things.

I am just promoting my personal view of the virtues of versatility. Sometimes there's only a shell prompt and <phone systems down, financial transactions failing, stop lights blinking red/yellow, doctors waiting on stat test results>... are you going to go grab another engineer that's comfortable dealing with it, or will you be the one people go to?

The moral is, use the best tool for the job, and know what the best tool is, and understand that the best tool for you isn't necessarily the best tool for someone else. Be flexible.

-Lee

*It turns out I may be wrong: http://www.eclipse.org/photran/
I still don't know if i could get it running on these machines, and our support department would probably rue me doing so when they started getting calls about performance from customers.

macmec
Apr 5, 2009, 10:04 PM
Netbeans and Eclipse :)