PowerBook and iBook Confirmation?

[MacRumors]

MacNN joins the fray (http://www.macnn.com/news/24260) and provides their own confirmation that PowerBooks and iBooks will receive updates next week.

According to the site, "Apple will introduce revised 12-inch PowerBooks (two models), two revised 15-inch PowerBooks, one new model of the 12" iBook, two new models of the 14" iBook, and a single high-end 17" PowerBook configuration".

Limited availability is expected next week.

[Ja Di ksw]

My guess is their source is Appleinsider :)

[QCassidy352]

just because there have been false rumors in the past doesn't mean that updates are never coming. This is as good a time as any. But there will *not* be powerbook G5s, so if you have to complain, let's get that out of the way now so that we can all enjoy the updated G4s next week.

[Nemesis]

My guess is their source is Appleinsider :)

Probably the only constant rumor mongering website during the last few months. They must be working overtime to supply the whole net with nonsenses :D

[Hattig]

Errr ... couldn't their sources be the other apple sites like here, appleinsider, etc? :P

Still, I'm looking forward to what comes out next week now.

[Macmaniac]

1.5ghz G4'S Here we come!




Lets save the G5 rumors next year!!

[goof_ball]

I have a feeling this is the same rumor just propegating.

Regardless, lets hope its true. Also, lets hope they put a better screen on the some of the iBook models.

[Grimace]

I wonder if the superdrive "option" is going to go away on any of the 'books. The combo drive wasn't an option on the 17" powerbook - are we moving toward the superdrive being a baseline feature?

Personally, I'd like the option to stay, as I have a DVD burner in my desktop and could have saved the $$$, but the same must have been said for CD-RW drives years back....

[jnasato]

Maybe Apple will surprise with a PowerBook G5 somehow. Apple surprised us with the G5 and 12" & 17" PowerBooks, maybe they will surprise us again... Or maybe Steve will announce some crap, and no one will clap, like the somewhat embarassing iPod mini price announcement moment. Apple does surprise, though, maybe this time's not the time? But I sure hope it is.

[cr2sh]

are we moving toward the superdrive being a baseline feature?

Yes, in fact we are.

In the next revision of the powermac Apple will introduce the super-duper drive. (By duper, I mean dual layer.) :D

New books? No way, never happen, not now at least. How about a display? How about a PM?

[ckelley]

My 700MHz iBook just went kapoot...

Looks like next week could be a good week for me. :cool:

Albeit expensive :(

[elgruga]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

[powerofthekiwi]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

I'm an apple fan and I plan to be in the apple store monday buying my 1.5 ghz G4 p'book with super drive, backlit keyboard, and 2 gbs RAM standard (completely joking!)

[usersince86]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

I think several people will buy a new G4 *IF* it's signficantly faster, or cheaper, or loaded, compared to current offerings.

The G4 is "proven", a G5 laptop, while much cooler (actually hotter), will be totally new...

[invaLPsion]

Well now that we know that they're coming out, we just have to wait for Jimsowden to give us the details.

[Awimoway]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

I agree, too. But I can't really believe anyone is surprised that the G5 Powerbook isn't quite ready for prime time.

[Grimace]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

While I agree as a reader of this forum, there are a ton of Mac people out there who don't care that a G5 is on the horizon. Many will say - oh wow, an updated xBook, I'll take one please. Unless they check Apple's website often, they may not even know that there are new xBooks at all. Many Apple consumers go into an Apple store, play around, and buy. New converts may not be doing research into the history of the G4 and G5 in desktop/notebooks.

I'm not saying that they will sell like hotcakes; just that the majority of Mac users probably aren't following this as closely as we are.

[Dippo]

How much faster could they really make the Powerbooks?

The 17" is already running at 1.33GMhz, and the fastest G4 in a PowerMac was 1.42Ghz. Wasn't it?

[Prom1]

I think several people will buy a new G4 *IF* it's signficantly faster, or cheaper, or loaded, compared to current offerings.

The G4 is "proven", a G5 laptop, while much cooler (actually hotter), will be totally new...

Good point, remember how many held of on the PM G5's because it wasn't "proven" always waiting for revision B so the bugs are out.

Me I'll get the current PowerBook G4 12" with the DVI. It suits my needs & meets minimum requirements of Garageband and most audio, low-level video editing applications.Not to mention Photoshop, MS Office, etc.

I would like to see Apple push these new PB/iBook's hard into the education market even at a slight loss *IF* sales, early on, show that its a dead product revision. That way installed user base increases (especially if its cheaper to buy than a crappy Dell machine), and those people whom would've never though of buying Apple would see what all the joy is about and then think of nothing else. More users in the Mac community means less issues using our machines at work & play, along with file transport.

[atari1356]

I believe MacNN is run by the same people who run AppleInsider... so the fact that they have a similar story now is not surprising.

[SwitchingSoon]

Ditto to everyone who said that people are waiting for G5's.

If they were to come out with a G5 1.8 ghz powerbook, I'd switch right away. :D

[remingtonhill]

As an apple employee (and believe me less informed then all ya'll about macs in general and especially new product announcements), that anything but a G5 Powerbook will be greeted with no more then a "yawn."

Why would they update them? A 250 Mhz bump in G4 speed isn't that big a deal right? Would I even notice the difference?

-R
IBM Thinkpad 600e PII 366
Smok'in

[Dippo]

Ditto to everyone who said that people are waiting for G5's.

If they were to come out with a G5 1.8 ghz powerbook, I'd switch right away. :D


Be ready to wait another year or more...

Powerbooks aren't going to get G5s until well after the PowerMacs are updated...

[DGFan]

Slightly faster CPUs.....new video cards....hopefully more RAM....bigger HD....these are good things.

I don't see why everyone is hung up on the G5 thing. Do you really need more than 4GB RAM on your laptop? Do you even have that many slots? Are you really going to use 64 bits? Remember folks, the G5s aren't significantly faster clock-for-clock than the G4s. Maybe years down the road when compilers get *really* optimized and everyone starts releasing software specifically optimized for the G5 that will change. But today, it simply doesn't matter that much. Oh yeah, but to paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, "it's one faster isn't it?". Ok, whatever :rolleyes:

[DGFan]

Why would they update them? A 250 Mhz bump in G4 speed isn't that big a deal right? Would I even notice the difference?


That's 20%. If 20% faster doesn't matter then why is everyone clamoring for 2.4GHz G5s? And why is everyone clamoring for G5s in laptops when the G5s aren't even 20% faster than G4s?

[Dippo]

That's 20%. If 20% faster doesn't matter then why is everyone clamoring for 2.4GHz G5s? And why is everyone clamoring for G5s in laptops when the G5s aren't even 20% faster than G4s?


Oh gosh, don't trip over the Megahertz Myth.

There is much more to speed than the Ghz.

[Indiana Mac]

Agreed, and the one thing holding the G4's back is that lousy front side bus. If they can put a competative front side bus speed on that while bumping the clock speed to 1.5, I'd be glad to own one(plus not having to crap shoot a rev A PB G5).

[jefhatfield]

1.5ghz G4'S Here we come!




Lets save the G5 rumors next year!!

how about the 1.5s now and the g5 powerbooks late this year...just in time for christmas

that would be ultimate and make me think that apple inc was keeping up with the ever faster mobile wintels..though i don't expect it, it would be great if a lot of pc users noticed apple's great laptops

i think the one issue which is holding them back is price...a couple of hundred dollars means a lot to the computer shopper these days and i suspect a lot of people are getting bargain priced pc laptops

[leftbanke7]

How much faster could they really make the Powerbooks?

The 17" is already running at 1.33GMhz, and the fastest G4 in a PowerMac was 1.42Ghz. Wasn't it?

My assumption would be a minimal processor bump but a decent sized FSB bump. Maybe a quicker HD.

It's good to know that there will be some decent (and recently upgraded) laptops out when I go shopping at the start of the next school year. I was pretty much resigned to an iBook but a PowerBook might actually be an option now.

[Bhennies]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.
I will. It is going to be the finest g4 'book ever released.

Just wait to read the support forums on the rev. a g5 powerbook. Apple's gonna have to open a whole new server for that. Their hardware quality on rev.a products has not been all that great lately.

[zelman]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.


I want a rev B 15" powerbook. I've been waiting for them to rev for a long time. If they were to go for a g5, i'd have to wait for the next rev to buy. I'm not interested in bleeding edge tech. I just want it to work.

[remingtonhill]

Quote:

that would be ultimate and make me think that apple inc was keeping up with the ever faster mobile wintels..though i don't expect it, it would be great if a lot of pc users noticed apple's great laptops

****

Agreed. 250 Mhz isn't going to make that much difference in the feel of the laptop for most applications.

I don't yet have a mac, though I'd love one, can't afford one. I would only buy a 15" Superdrive Powerbook, and though they are awesome machines, the price is just too much! Especially when compared to 2.5 Ghz Plus thinkpads, which are nice notebooks, indeed.

[Dippo]

i think the one issue which is holding them back is price...a couple of hundred dollars means a lot to the computer shopper these days and i suspect a lot of people are getting bargain priced pc laptops


I agree but even the cheapest windows laptops still cost around $1000

What I really hate is that Apple always cripples their "smaller notebook". If the 12" Powerbook could have the same specs as the 17" Powerbook, then I would be happy to buy one.

I was encouraged by the eMac updates because instead of different processor and mem specs, they were different in only opitcal drive and hard drive specs.

[iBunny]

Im thinking the iBooks are gonna get the better end of the deal espically for the price.... ;)

[Some_Big_Spoon]

I'd take a 1GHz G4 PB if it had a 500MHz FSB.. I'd take an 800 MHZ G4 if it had a 400MHz FSB.. and so on.. the processor can be a jet engine, but if the information that's computed can't get around, it's useless.. the FSB on the (current) G4 is appauling... a true nightmare and embarrasing, even by years back standards. Increase the board/mem specs and then we'll be talking.. Anything other than that is purely for marketing's sake.

Maybe Arn has specs on the (rumored) 1.5 GHz G4?? If so, let us know what they are, and same goes for anyone else.. and links please people.

[iAtom]

What I really hate is that Apple always cripples their "smaller notebook". If the 12" Powerbook could have the same specs as the 17" Powerbook, then I would be happy to buy one.

I don't think that they intentionally cripple them. I think it's just because they are smaller so they don't have as much room for hotter components. But what do I know? :D

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Yep.. Apple seems to think we buy the 12" PB because we're poor, not because we don't want to lug around a lunch tray on our transcontinental flights..

I want real power in a really portable laptop, and i'll pay for it, so listen up..

[QUOTE=Dippo
What I really hate is that Apple always cripples their "smaller notebook". If the 12" Powerbook could have the same specs as the 17" Powerbook, then I would be happy to buy one.

I was encouraged by the eMac updates because instead of different processor and mem specs, they were different in only opitcal drive and hard drive specs.[/QUOTE]

[Indiana Mac]

Does anyone know if the newest G4 will support anything faster than the current bus?

[Bear]

How much faster could they really make the Powerbooks?

The 17" is already running at 1.33GMhz, and the fastest G4 in a PowerMac was 1.42Ghz. Wasn't it?In reality, it doesn't matter what the fastest G4 processor was in the Powermac.

What does matter is how fast a G4 Apple cna get its paws on. In this case, expect 1.5GHz processors for the 17" and possibly one of the 15" Powerbooks.

[Dippo]

I don't think that they intentionally cripple them. I think it's just because they are smaller so they don't have as much room for hotter components. But what do I know? :D


I thought the same thing too, but they do the same thing with the iMac and they used to do it with the eMac. I think it is a marketing thing to get you to buy the next better model. The only problem with that is that I want a smaller laptop, not a larger one.

I would even pay more if they had a faster and smaller laptop.

[Bear]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.I can. My current Powerbook is starting to show its limitations. Any bump up from the current top end 15" will be a welcome machine to buy. Also, hopefully they will drop the prices a couple hundred dollars again.

[Bear]

Does anyone know if the newest G4 will support anything faster than the current bus?At one point, Motorola was going to be introducing G4 class processors with a faster FSB. Hopefully the 1.5GHz G4 procs have one, even if it's only 20% faster than the current FSB.

[remingtonhill]

Quote:

Own a crappy Dell Dimension 8200 with Winblows XP - biggest mistake of my life

***

God do I wish that was my biggest problem.

___

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"

[Some_Big_Spoon]

No one reads the previous posts.

Where's the /. mods? :rolleyes:

[iBunny]

I have been looking into a Mac for like a month now and almost bought a PB 15' Superdrive. I am glad I waited. I really want an iBook tho, because I think the sleek white case is sexier :D

I hope to go we get better iBooks out of this deal...

[TRiPod]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.
i guess i'm in the minority....

you do realize that if you wait for a g5 pbook its gonna be october before you actually get it right?

also, someone needs to update the buyer's guide and add 'updates soon' to the pbooks

[Some_Big_Spoon]

October.. of what year?

i guess i'm in the minority....

you do realize that if you wait for a g5 pbook its gonna be october before you actually get it right?

also, someone needs to update the buyer's guide and add 'updates soon' to the pbooks

[SuperChuck]

Folks, this is a NAB show release. The wow factor is not going to come from the processor. If they have decided to use NAB as a launchpad, there's going to be some serious audio/video stuff going on. I agree with the past posts that the 17" (and maybe the 15") will probably sport an HD screen.

How about fixing those crummy speakers? It's like listening to a clock-radio from the 80's.

And what about some out-of-left-field stuff? If they're going to be hawking G4 Powerbooks for the rest of the year (and I think they are) they are bound to come up with something that will make the PC crowd drool. My personal vote is for a detachable screen. Just imagine it: the screen snaps off from the base, and you can buy a seperate cradle with ADC connector that allows you to place the monitor at a decent level without having to lug around a seperate keyboard! Will this happen? No. But it is more likely than a G5 portable on Sunday.

PREDICTION: Quicktime update on Sunday.

[tsk]

I agree but even the cheapest windows laptops still cost around $1000

I see Dell offering some for $700 (granted I can't figure out how to configure it for that cheap). Quite a few are around $800 also. Be nice to see the iBook 12" closer to that.

[remingtonhill]

So I read somewhere, that seemed to be a legitimate source, that Microsoft will put three G5s in the next xbox.

So your telling me apple can't figure out to put one in the powerbook?

--
IBM Thinkpad 600e PII 366
Smok'in

[El Tritoma]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.
Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.
I have a 667 MHz TiBook, the second one I've had on which the right hand hinge has broken. I am going to get a new PB next week regardless. Both hinges broke while sitting in the BWI airport on a weekday morning waiting to go home. :)

[stoid]

I see Dell offering some for $700 (granted I can't figure out how to configure it for that cheap). Quite a few are around $800 also. Be nice to see the iBook 12" closer to that.

Chances are the 700 dollar machine lacks an optical drive, and is thick, ugly, hot, and low battery life. I'd gladly spend the extra for an iBook.

[adamjay]

not to get off subject, but the topic of people waiting for RevB G5's did come up in this thread..

I REALLY don't agree with alot of the criticism that people have on RevA Apple products. I own the RevA 12" Powerbook, and a Sawtooth G4 which i consider to be the RevA G4 Powermac, since the Yikes! was more like a G3 B&W box with a G4 chip inside. In the past i've owned the RevA 233mhz iMac, and the RevA 400mhz G4 Titanium Powerbook. Every Macintosh computer i have owned has been a RevA. Other than all being RevA's, you know what they all have in common? No Problems whatsoever.
My 12" doesn't get hot, The titanium did not have hinge issues, the iMac had no video issues, etc. Some people have problems with RevA machine's, but i certainly would not single them out to being RevA problems in and of themselves. I think the "RevA Myth" is just as crippling as the "Megahertz Myth"

1 person gets on the forum and says they have an issue with their RevA, and 100 other people write RevA's off because of it. The iBook logic board issues, G4 Titanium (firewire 800) issues, Powerbook G3 Lombard overheating... all these issues were not in RevA's.

and worst of all, when people blame the fact that the G5 is a RevA right now, for why they don't own one. As if the G5 doesn't even exist, because they won't buy an Apple product until its RevB.

sorry, but someone has to stick up for the RevA's.... they are good machines and i have never had a single issue with a RevA Apple product.

[Gyroscope]

At one point, Motorola was going to be introducing G4 class processors with a faster FSB. Hopefully the 1.5GHz G4 procs have one, even if it's only 20% faster than the current FSB.

Won't happen though. Any G4 variant they may use will still be limited to Motorola MAX bus that tops out at 167 mhz. This also goes for new G4 that can go upto 1.5 mhz and which I think will be used at least for some high end models this time around.

Regarding G5's in laptops, quite sure they won't use them just yet. Even if Apple had design and cooling sorted out,short supply of 0.90nm G5's would prevent launch at this point in time. They even couldn't manage to ship enough XServes (very low volume product) with it.

[Dippo]

I see Dell offering some for $700 (granted I can't figure out how to configure it for that cheap). Quite a few are around $800 also. Be nice to see the iBook 12" closer to that.


Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs

I like this image from Dell's site.
http://img.dell.com/images/global/learnmore/pentium_m_benchmark.gif

[uv23]

And what about some out-of-left-field stuff? If they're going to be hawking G4 Powerbooks for the rest of the year (and I think they are) they are bound to come up with something that will make the PC crowd drool.
An optical audio out would be nice...

[nek]

At one point, Motorola was going to be introducing G4 class processors with a faster FSB. Hopefully the 1.5GHz G4 procs have one, even if it's only 20% faster than the current FSB.

The most recent G4 (7447A) goes up to 1.5GHz, but it still has the same 167MHz bus. The only improvement it has is using less power, and its capable of "dynamic frequency switching", which makes it good for laptops but its still slow and outdated.

Hopefully the G5 will make its way into the PowerBook and iMac within the next 6 months.

[paulie]

I'm a 12" Rev A owner, and if a 15" 1.66 GHz G4 comes out, I'd gladly upgrade for double the speed..

This little PowerBook has been my best Mac yet (500 MHz iBook, 17" 1GHz iMac), and though Panther has a few issues, it's faster than Jaguar.

Bring on more G4s until I need a new desktop in late 2005 (G6? or dual 5 GHz G5?)..

Heck, at this point, I'd just be happy with price reductions on the current lineup - drop the 15" SuperDrive PB to $2299.. that'd make a big difference.

[aswitcher]

I'd take a 1GHz G4 PB if it had a 500MHz FSB.. I'd take an 800 MHZ G4 if it had a 400MHz FSB.. and so on.. the processor can be a jet engine, but if the information that's computed can't get around, it's useless.. the FSB on the (current) G4 is appauling... a true nightmare and embarrasing, even by years back standards. Increase the board/mem specs and then we'll be talking.. Anything other than that is purely for marketing's sake.

Maybe Arn has specs on the (rumored) 1.5 GHz G4?? If so, let us know what they are, and same goes for anyone else.. and links please people.

Whats the chance they have bumped the bus up. Is it a really big deal, or could the 7447A have a better bus?

[Gyroscope]

Whats the chance they have bumped the bus up. Is it a really big deal, or could the 7447A have a better bus?


No,no mate. They just can't, won't :D bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.

[aswitcher]

No,no mate. They just can't, won't :D bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.


:( And there I was hoping they might have done something to encourage me to switch rather than wait for the G5s...

Its going to be a tough call. If they do good things like drop the price, bump up the screen resolution, better ram or anything else, then I am going to be torn...

G5PB is 5 months off I guess...can I wait...?

[stoid]

Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs


WTF do they mean by integrated graphics? Does that mean it has a monitor attached?!? Is it even possible to have a laptop to NOT have integrated graphics? So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

[jeffgarden]

AppleInsider:

Meanwhile, it appears that Apple is on target to refresh its portable offerings during the first half of next week, as previously anticipated. Taiwanese distribution sources have indicated that a number of iBook and PowerBook configurations are currently in air-transit to US distributors.

Additionally, multiple sources have now confirmed a majority of the Apple product numbers listed for the new laptops in an earlier report. According to an unconfirmed tip, among the many configurations planned for release are a 12-inch 1GHz G4 iBook equipped with a 30 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and a Combo Drive. The low-end 14-inch iBook model will reportedly pack a 1GHz processor, 40 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and Combo Drive.

If the two entry level iBook configurations are indeed accurate, next week's product introductions will mark a milestone for Apple, as it will no longer be manufacturing a CPU unit with a clock-speed below 1GHz.

[Gesus]

WTF do they mean by integrated graphics? Does that mean it has a monitor attached?!? Is it even possible to have a laptop to NOT have integrated graphics? So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

Intergrated graphics means the graphics card is built on the motherboard, also known as on-board graphics. You can't ever update the graphics card in that machine. Thats why I hate onboard graphics.

[~Shard~]

So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

Actually if you're talking about an Apple machine, that would only be one mouse button. ;)

[Some_Big_Spoon]

G4 PB's won't be fast due to the FSB and board. the bottleneck makes processor gains minimal, which is why the G5 is nice (bus running at 1/2 proc speed) so the information can get around.

So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:

[thatwendigo]

:( And there I was hoping they might have done something to encourage me to switch rather than wait for the G5s...

Hey, they make Mac OS X... What more do you want? ;)

Its going to be a tough call. If they do good things like drop the price, bump up the screen resolution, better ram or anything else, then I am going to be torn...

G5PB is 5 months off I guess...can I wait...?

Nothing from Apple says that there will be a G5 PowerBook in five months. I wouldn't base my decision off of that. Let me put it to you this way... I've used some nicely equipped PCs, some pretty high end stuff that my gamer buddies spend cash on.

I'll still take my eMac 700 and iBook G3 600 over any of that, for the simple reason that OS X works. I've either owned or had provided for me, in the last twenty years, some 23 macs. Two of those I've bought, the rest have been machines that my tech-loving family has used to keep all of us active and online. I've been helping maintain the networks, and then taking over the task, since I was about ten. In all that usage, I've had three hardware failures, one of which was just a settled CD drive that need a slight nudge to fix the tray (on an iMac). The other two? A hard drive failure on a nearly seven year old machine, and a dead PCI graphics card on an even older one.

Macs have always worked for me, with minimal maintenance and effort. I can't say the same thing about PCs. Yes, there are problems, and people seem to have issues that don't generally touch me at all... However, the reason you hear about them so much in this community is that they're not as common as on the other side, and the people talking about them tend to be able to aticulate the issue. When Apple has 3000 logic boards go bad out of a shipment of hundreds of thousands of iBooks, it's a blip, but it's one that gets noticed because of their usual quality standards.

If you want to switch, I'd actually recommend you get a lower-end, cheaper machine to try things out on first. There's no sense in a big expenditure that you aren't sure about.

I'm pretty confidend you'll like it over here, though. :D

[thatwendigo]

Intergrated graphics means the graphics card is built on the motherboard, also known as on-board graphics. You can't ever update the graphics card in that machine. Thats why I hate onboard graphics.

Actually, in this case, they're talking about Intel's integrated graphics chipset, which is an extremely low-end and RAM-less graphics chip. It uses your system memory (notice the "shared RAM"?) to do its calculations, not RAM on the GPU itself.

Lovely, isn't it? At least Apple uses real GPUs.

[Steven1621]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

the updated g4 should be more than enough for my computing needs, but i would certainly be happy with a g5

[QCassidy352]

Slightly faster CPUs.....new video cards....hopefully more RAM....bigger HD....these are good things.

I don't see why everyone is hung up on the G5 thing. Do you really need more than 4GB RAM on your laptop? Do you even have that many slots? Are you really going to use 64 bits? Remember folks, the G5s aren't significantly faster clock-for-clock than the G4s. Maybe years down the road when compilers get *really* optimized and everyone starts releasing software specifically optimized for the G5 that will change. But today, it simply doesn't matter that much. Oh yeah, but to paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, "it's one faster isn't it?". Ok, whatever :rolleyes:

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here (http://www.barefeats.com/g5sum.html) ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.

[~Shard~]

I think the reailty people have to face, like it or not, is that G5 PowerBooks are not coming for a while. If PowerBook updates are in fact looming, they will no doubt be G4 speed bumps to 1.5 GHz or some such variant. And yes, this willl tick a lot of people off, but unfortunately, I think this is the way things will be - there are many signs. First of all, the latest hardware update was NOT for the PowerMacs, NOT for the PowerBooks and NOT for a G5 iMac, it was for the eMac, and just a relatively small upgrade of its G4 (not that anyone was expecting a G5 eMac!) Also, minor updates were seen in the iMac line back in December, (or whenever it was), with the 20-inch iMac. Apple has not released any updates since then, so the PowerBooks will probably follow the same pattern - a minor G4 update now, and then no G5 updates for quite a while. Heck, the iMac might get another G4 boost as well, although I really hope not - I'm itching to see a new G5 iMac form factor! Not that I dislike the current one, but I can only imagine how cool the G5 iMacs will look! :cool:

So anyway, I'm thinking iBook and PowerBook updates will be minor G4 speed boosts, with some minor hardware upgrades as well. Apple seems to be having some delays/difficulties with the next batch of faster G5s, so it will be all they can manage to get the Rev B PMs out in the near future, let alone anything else with G5s. Like it or not.

[aswitcher]

So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:

If they do push for some serious nice additions then I am going to be sweating about what to do... Size/Weight is fine, but VRAM and Screen Resolution ups would push me right to the edge...

[~Shard~]

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here (http://www.barefeats.com/g5sum.html) ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.

This is very true, I've seen it time and time again. Many people just want G5s because they are the latest and greatest chip, and they just want to be "the fastest". This is the attitude many people take, with a complete disregard for what they actually need. I'm sure there are individuals out there who could benefit from a G5 PowerBook, but really, people have to ask themselves "what do I need a G5 for that a G4 can't do?", "do I need a G5 in the first place?", "why do I want a G5?" and "do I understand the technological advantages and actual speed benefits, etc. of having a G5 over a G4?" (i.e. what would I gain form having a G5 over a G4 and is it substantially noticeable?)

[SuperChuck]

Visit the Motorola Press Release (http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,3861_3238_23,00.html)

This release is OLD (from February) but it contains a few details that support claims of earlier posts. Most importantly, that speeds will hit 1.5 Ghz and above:

"This high-performance, power-efficient 32-bit RISC device, operating in excess of 1.4GHz, is the latest and fastest member of the MPC74xx PowerPC processor family."

Note "in excess of..." And that was in February. Another interesting thing to note:

"MPC7447A processors are pin-for-pin compatible with Motorola’s MPC7445 and MPC7447 processors. This pin-compatible migration path helps customers reduce their development costs, accelerates time to market, and ensures software compatibility."

This may suggest little or no form-factor change. If they're sinking a ton of cash in developing a G5 Powerbook, they're probably not going to dish out too much re-vamping the old stuff. Especially if all they have to do is switch them out, pin-for-pin.

I don't think this processor is being used for anything at the moment, and is therefore the most likely candidate to be found in Sunday's Powerbooks.

[Gyroscope]

G4 PB's won't be fast due to the FSB and board. the bottleneck makes processor gains minimal, which is why the G5 is nice (bus running at 1/2 proc speed) so the information can get around.

So, if they're limited, why not throw in features? HD screens, lighted keyboards across the line, 8X superdrives for all, 128MB vid chips, thinner, lighter.. they won't do this, of course, because it would blow their margins..

If they're going to give us lemons, as least make it lemonade... I know, flying pigs.. :rolleyes:

Indeed. Great disparity between G4 and G5 FSB is really depressing. For some regular daily tasks don't matter much, but considering how many people would (want to) use PowerBook for some serious number crunching (video,audio) this disparity becomes major issue. I quite frankly think that Apple isn't quite out of woods yet regarding their CPU woes. I for once,thought that when G5's were released everything would change instanly. But as it turned out to be,this is long and painful process of transition.

[thatwendigo]

Indeed. Great disparity between G4 and G5 FSB is really depressing. For some regular daily tasks don't matter much, but considering how many people would (want to) use PowerBook for some serious number crunching (video,audio) this disparity becomes major issue. I quite frankly think that Apple isn't quite out of woods yet regarding their CPU woes. I for once,thought that when G5's were released everything would change instanly. But as it turned out to be,this is long and painful process of transition.

If you're doing your "serious number crunching" on a powerbook, then you're missing the boat to begin with. For the same money, you'd have a much faster desktop machine that would have the full FSB benefit of the G5. As it is, I'm wondering if they'll have to go to a 3:1 or 4:1 multiplier to bring the heat down enough to cram it into a laptop.

Besides, these are birth pangs. Sit back and watch the beauty of a new life for Apple, and then kill the doctor if it turns out he's botched the delivery. :D

[Gyroscope]

Visit the Motorola Press Release (http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,3861_3238_23,00.html)

This release is OLD (from February) but it contains a few details that support claims of earlier posts. Most importantly, that speeds will hit 1.5 Ghz and above:

"This high-performance, power-efficient 32-bit RISC device, operating in excess of 1.4GHz, is the latest and fastest member of the MPC74xx PowerPC processor family."

Note "in excess of..." And that was in February. Another interesting thing to note:

"MPC7447A processors are pin-for-pin compatible with Motorola’s MPC7445 and MPC7447 processors. This pin-compatible migration path helps customers reduce their development costs, accelerates time to market, and ensures software compatibility."

This may suggest little or no form-factor change. If they're sinking a ton of cash in developing a G5 Powerbook, they're probably not going to dish out too much re-vamping the old stuff. Especially if all they have to do is switch them out, pin-for-pin.

I don't think this processor is being used for anything at the moment, and is therefore the most likely candidate to be found in Sunday's Powerbooks.


Yeah,that's what they have said. Now they are saying "can reach speeds upto 1.5 ghz" I would be happy to see them reaching 1.6 ghz or more,but I don't think that will happen with Motorola's track record. MPC7447 is basically variation of more or less same 7400 design. Yes they have added few more pipeline stages to ramp up mhz but overall existing design of G4 (shallow and wide) won't hit speeds of 1.8-2.0 ghz anytime soon.

[aswitcher]

Hey, they make Mac OS X... What more do you want? ;)

That + iApps is principally why I am switching. Super sleek hardware is a bonus :cool:




If you want to switch, I'd actually recommend you get a lower-end, cheaper machine to try things out on first. There's no sense in a big expenditure that you aren't sure about.

I'm pretty confidend you'll like it over here, though. :D


Well I do want a machine that has some legs. I am a comp sci major from the late eighties so am no stranger to computers.

I want a desktop replacement in a portable form factor...so a laptop. Time to move out of my makeshift weekend office and get about when I write etc

Principally I need it for - heaps of word processing, spreadsheets, internet (20 pages at a hit sometimes when researching - no not porn :p ) and maybe games. Re game no envelop pushing because I have my xbox for that. Still it would be nice to have Halo and a few others to play when I am travelling in my hotel room and with friends over the net.

And its got to be doing this in 4-5 years time as I have a mortgage and won't be up for replacing it as far as I can tell. Likely I'll keep it until it stops working and is too expensive to fix because it will always be useful to have a spare laptop.

My main concern is I want a machine that isn't going to baulk at DV editing with iMovie (and maybe final cut) when I pick myself up a camera later this year. So good screen realestate to work with and everything else to keep it humming.

I figure a powerbook super is what I want, probably the 15".

I have concerns though that the G4 will
a) the G4 (and bus/ram) will just be too sluggish for what I will be doing in the next few years as I delve more and more into DV and other apps
b) not allow me to upgrade to the new 64bit optomised os and other apps in the next 1-3 years, which will leave me with a relatively slow machine
c) I am a geek, and I would like the latest

so can I wait...? :confused:

[SuperChuck]

IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think there is one really, really good reason to be wary of dishing out a lot of dough on a G4 - the next OS.

OS X "Tiger" (or whatever the heck they decide to name it) WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE A 64-Bit OS. Of course, they will come out with a 32-Bit version and call it "Home Edition" or "iTiger" or some such nonsense, but the fact will remain that the primary freaking reason you bought a mac (the OS) is not optimized for your really expensive computer. And when you are buying their "professional" grade product, that is a pretty big deal.

That said, I need a Powerbook and I can't wait around for the G5, so Apple will get my cash anyway, but don't pretend that no G5 in a Pro computer is not a big deal. The Tiger is gonna make our G4 PB's seem pretty cruddy.

[thatwendigo]

Wow. Another reason to dislike Intel.

From Intel's website: (http:/www.intel.com)

Intel® 855GME chipset, when paired with DDR-333 memory, contributes to higher integrated graphics performance than 855GM, with realistic 3D graphics with sharp images and enables balanced memory usage between graphics and system for optimal performance. Integrated 32-bit 3D/2D Gfx with frequency up to 250 MHz, Bi-Cubic Filter, Video Mixer Rendering or AGP4x (discrete graphics only).

By comparison: The Radeaon 9600 Mobile (http://www.ati.com/products/mobilityradeon9600/features.html) that's in PowerBooks 15" and above:
AGP8X support
400mhz GDDR2-M integrated memory at 32/64/128MB on-board
Pixel and Vertex Shader 2.0
Quad Rendering & Dual Vertex engines
0.13 micron process
Multisampling with 6 unique samples per pixel and ATI patented gamma correction
16X Anisotropic filtering
Lossless color compression
Lossless z-compression (8:1 with no FSAA, up to 24:1 with FSAA)
Integrated dual-channel LVDS, with support for notebook LCD panels as up to QXGA resolutions (2048x1536)
165 MHz integrated TMDS transmitter, for support of DVI Digital Flat Panels at up to UXGA resolution (1600x1200)
Integrated HDTV encoder, supporting component output (YPbPr) for both North American and Japanese D-link connectors
Hardware acceleration for MPEG encoding and decoding, for DVD playback, personal video recorder and time-shifting applications
Video Input Port for notebook TV-tuner solutions
FULLSTREAM™ - hardware accelerated video de-blocking for enhanced Internet streaming video quality
Optimized support for wide-aspect LCD panels and HDTV output

[thatwendigo]

That + iApps is principally why I am switching. Super sleek hardware is a bonus :cool:

Come on in. The water's amazing. :cool:

Well I do want a machine that has some legs. I am a comp sci major from the late eighties so am no stranger to computers.

Here's a hint... Apple machines have legs that you wouldn't believe. I had a Tangerine iBook Rev A, and it served me well from purchase to accidental violent death, this past December. That laptop was a low-end machine from around four to five years ago, and yet it ran Jaguar 10.2.8, and only got faster with each OS X revision.

My one regret was that Panther was too much for its puny GPU. My snowbook replacement, bought off of eBay, runs Panther pretty damn well, with its RAM maxed at purchase. :D

I want a desktop replacement in a portable form factor...so a laptop. Time to move out of my makeshift weekend office and get about when I write etc

I can sympathize. My eMac sits on the desk at home, where I do most of my posting, music listening, and creative work, but sometimes I wander with my iBook and its Airport card, so that I can get a different positioning in. I even took up warwalking/wardriving as a hobby, because of how easy the wireless is on that thing.

Principally I need it for - heaps of word processing, spreadsheets, internet (20 pages at a hit sometimes when researching - no not porn :p ) and maybe games. Re game no envelop pushing because I have my xbox for that. Still it would be nice to have Halo and a few others to play when I am travelling in my hotel room and with friends over the net.

If you want to game, I seriously recommend you stay away from laptops. They're just not really up to the task, in my experience, and the setup isn't really ideal for an FPS like Halo. There's no mouse, for one, and a trackpad is terrible to try to fight with. Then again... I've never gotten my sweaty little hands on a top of the line 17" PowerBook, so they might actually be fun machines to game on.

And its got to be doing this in 4-5 years time as I have a mortgage and won't be up for replacing it as far as I can tell. Likely I'll keep it until it stops working and is too expensive to fix because it will always be useful to have a spare laptop.

Ah, now I see. Well, I'm a college student, and there's not a lot of money to go around these days. When I was living at home, around four years ago, it was a different story, but now I largely support myself.

I just buy what I can afford, when I can afford it, and try not to run my loans too high. :cool:

I have concerns though that the G4 will
a) the G4 (and bus/ram) will just be too sluggish for what I will be doing in the next few years as I delve more and more into DV and other apps
b) not allow me to upgrade to the new 64bit optomised os and other apps in the next 1-3 years, which will leave me with a relatively slow machine
c) I am a geek, and I would like the latest

so can I wait...? :confused:

A) I do some Photoshopping on my eMac, but not a whole lot of video editing, so I'm not really qualified to advise you on that.
B) That's a valid concern, and I can see why it would worry you. My next machine is likely to be a G5 PowerBook. Gently used, and out of the hands of someone else. ;)
C) Man, I hear you...

[James L]

I am glad to see people are saying there won't be a G5 PB this week... there won't be that many disappointed people that way.

I won't completely repost from the other forum, but the long and short of it is that Apple has NEVER said they would have a G5 PB at this time... indeed, they have said the exact opposite, with quotes such as "the G4 still has a long life in the PB" and "we would LIKE to have a G5 PB by the end of 2004". IBM is NOT producing the G5's good enough for xServes or desktops, let alone PBs. I would have to go with Apple on this, not the rumor mill.

Now, on the subject of new G4's, I would buy in a heartbeat if they had:

15" 1.42GHZ G4
ATI 9700 GPU (64 OR 128 MB VRAM)
512 MB RAM in 1 chip
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive standard
Faster Superdrive

...considering I would be upgrading from a G3 iBook 600, this machine would rock for me. And, considering Apple has probably sold over 350,000 powerbooks in the last 2 quarters (which is down a bit) I bet they would sell a lot of the new G4 ones too.

With regards to 10.4 being ALL 64BIT, I highly doubt it. Their best selling machine is the iBook. The eMac sells very well. The iMac has historically sold well, but let's say that it will be G5 in the next 6 months. I highly doubt that apple would announce an OS in the next 2 months (they announce them at WWDC, then ship in the fall usually) that can't run at all on their best selling machine. I wouldn't be worried about this until (at the earliest) 10.5 coming out in fall of 2005, and even then I might not be too concerned about it.

..just one man's opinion. Cheers!

James

[aswitcher]

Now, on the subject of new G4's, I would buy in a heartbeat if they had:

15" 1.42GHZ G4
ATI 9700 GPU (64 OR 128 MB VRAM)
512 MB RAM in 1 chip
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive standard
Faster Superdrive



Mmm. I would like all of that.

What makes me think I will teater, is if the screen resolution goes up from 1280x854 on the 15". That would make everything look so much crisper. It would be excellent for iPhoto, Expose and DV editing.

I suspect after last years problems they may have gone up, but I also fear with so much going on an no tweak to the existing OS to properly scale icons, they will skip this time and go for it with the G5...


With regards to 10.4 being ALL 64BIT, I highly doubt it. Their best selling machine is the iBook. The eMac sells very well. The iMac has historically sold well, but let's say that it will be G5 in the next 6 months. I highly doubt that apple would announce an OS in the next 2 months (they announce them at WWDC, then ship in the fall usually) that can't run at all on their best selling machine. I wouldn't be worried about this until (at the earliest) 10.5 coming out in fall of 2005, and even then I might not be too concerned about it.

..just one man's opinion. Cheers!

James

In the next 18months I would say to really do justice to the G5 and take a real leap on MS, they will release a 64 bit optomised OS (whilst still supporting 32 for years to come). I really would prefer to take advantage of that.

[elo]

With all due respect to everyone here, there won't be a G5 PowerBook this *year.* There's absolutely no way in hell to make that chip work in a notebook at present. Moreover, no one needs a G5 notebook computer right now. The G4 is an excellent performer and really quite ideal for notebook use, as it's evolved with power management issues in mind. The analogy on the other side is the Pentium M, which is a far better choice for notebooks than the Pentium 4 (even though the latter does work in a notebook). And just because Motorola didn't move quickly enough in ramping up the G4's speed doesn't mean the chip can't be made to run very fast.

Apple's notebooks, for the foreseeable future, will have G4's. If you're waiting for something else, give up now.

elo

[aswitcher]

With all due respect to everyone here, there won't be a G5 PowerBook this *year.*

Apple's notebooks, for the foreseeable future, will have G4's. If you're waiting for something else, give up now.

elo

Steve said there would be a G5PB by the end of 2004. I know there are problems with the G5 but its only April and Apple have had prototypes to work with for more than 6 months from what other posters are saying. We know the G5 90nm is cheaper, cooler and low power - which makes me think its perfect for a powerbook. What really compelling evidence do you have that their will be no G5 this year?

[TRiPod]

October.. of what year?
oops--i was thinking of 3GHz Pmac's. dont expect to have G5 pbooks in hand til at least january '05.

[James L]

Steve said there would be a G5PB by the end of 2004. I know there are problems with the G5 but its only April and Apple have had prototypes to work with for more than 6 months from what other posters are saying. We know the G5 90nm is cheaper, cooler and low power - which makes me think its perfect for a powerbook. What really compelling evidence do you have that their will be no G5 this year?


Hey aSwitcher,

Actually, Steve said:

"Afterwards [Jobs] admitted that the decisive revolution will be the introduction in laptops of the new 64 bit chip, the G5, that the company has developed along with IBM, with an investment of 3 billion dollars. 'We are working on it and what we'd like is to have it by the end of next year', he said."

...this too me definitely doesn't sound like a sure thing, and considering the unexpected problems with IBM it doesn't look great.

Having said that, I would put my money on MWSF 2005 in January. Ironically, this would be about 18 months since it appeared in a desktop, which IIRC was how long it took for the G4 to go from the desktop to the laptop.

Cheers!

James

[csubear]

Mmm. I would like all of that.

What makes me think I will teater, is if the screen resolution goes up from 1280x854 on the 15". That would make everything look so much crisper. It would be excellent for iPhoto, Expose and DV editing.

I suspect after last years problems they may have gone up, but I also fear with so much going on an no tweak to the existing OS to properly scale icons, they will skip this time and go for it with the G5...



In the next 18months I would say to really do justice to the G5 and take a real leap on MS, they will release a 64 bit optomised OS (whilst still supporting 32 for years to come). I really would prefer to take advantage of that.


Hate to be off topic here, but.. Apple will most likly never have a 64-bit complied OS. Why, because 64-bit instruction is twice as large. Its a big waste. 64-bit is good for doing double floating point, and huge addressing. We have 64-bit math, all we need is 64-bit addressing. The next Mac OS 10.4 i think will support this maybe, if it has been built in to the current G5 chipset. There is a lot more to 64-bit addressing. It most likly won't even be 64-bit more like 40 or 42.

Back on topic.

I know i shouldn't get my hopes up but maybe we could get a 1.6 Ghz g5 with a 400Mhz FSB? that would be nice.... If 2 Ghz yeild(90nm) have been low then it is resonable to belive that there would be quite a bit 1.4-1.6 Ghz chip. And by the way the only reason i want a G5 is for the faster FSB and double FPU... heres hoping

[aswitcher]

Hey aSwitcher,

Actually, Steve said:

"Afterwards [Jobs] admitted that the decisive revolution will be the introduction in laptops of the new 64 bit chip, the G5, that the company has developed along with IBM, with an investment of 3 billion dollars. 'We are working on it and what we'd like is to have it by the end of next year', he said."

James

:( Thanks for that ;) . By the way, what date is the quote from?

[h_harker]

Now, on the subject of new G4's, I would buy in a heartbeat if they had:

15" 1.42GHZ G4
ATI 9700 GPU (64 OR 128 MB VRAM)
512 MB RAM in 1 chip
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive standard
Faster Superdrive



James, that has me very excited just thinking about those specs. Oh for it to be true.

My story? I held off from buying my 15" until i cracked 3 weeks ago after no new sign of a revision. I could have bought on the online education store, but instead bought a customer return with one dead pixel. I was a very happy man until it started playing up, and I realised that wasnt the only thing wrong with it, so it became a customer return model again!

That was just 3 days ago, so imagine my delight at the news of the final G4 revisions. If James' dream is right, then believe me, from briefly owning the current model, it would make a supreme difference. Obviously I realise that ALL of these things will not be updated, but in particular 512 in one slot, oooo that makes me happyjust to dream. Keep youre G5's until they are good and ready, im not going to wait.

Question- does a revision mean an external image change? Whats the difference between a "revised powerbook range" and a "new ibook 14" model"? If there are aesthetic changes to the powerbook, what do we think they will be?

[HiRez]

If you're doing your "serious number crunching" on a powerbook, then you're missing the boat to begin with. For the same money, you'd have a much faster desktop machine that would have the full FSB benefit of the G5.You are missing the point. People who don't understand this are the same people who said no one would buy the iPod Mini because you can get a regular iPod with ~4x the HD space for $50 more. There are reasons people like or need to be portable. Or course you can get a faster desktop machine for the same price, but there is a market for people who want high-performance portablility, that's what the PowerBook is. People who need portability but don't need the cutting-edge buy iBooks.

I'd still like to see the long-rumored dual-G4 17" PowerBook if the G5s are going to take so long. If they came out with a dual-1.25+ GHz G4 PowerBook, I'd buy one right now (assuming you could disable one CPU when on batteries). Performance-wise, it would probably kick the arse of a single 1.4-2.0 GHz G5 PowerBook, even with the slow FSB.

[aswitcher]

Hate to be off topic here, but.. Apple will most likly never have a 64-bit complied OS. Why, because 64-bit instruction is twice as large. Its a big waste. 64-bit is good for doing double floating point, and huge addressing. We have 64-bit math, all we need is 64-bit addressing. The next Mac OS 10.4 i think will support this maybe, if it has been built in to the current G5 chipset. There is a lot more to 64-bit addressing. It most likly won't even be 64-bit more like 40 or 42.



Ok, semantics aside, its going to be faster right? iApps and the OS will do things substantially faster on the same hardware...so when it happens everyone running a G5 gets a nice big speed boost?



Back on topic.

I know i shouldn't get my hopes up but maybe we could get a 1.6 Ghz g5 with a 400Mhz FSB? that would be nice.... If 2 Ghz yeild(90nm) have been low then it is resonable to belive that there would be quite a bit 1.4-1.6 Ghz chip. And by the way the only reason i want a G5 is for the faster FSB and double FPU... heres hoping


That's what I thought but others are saying no. Not being an engineer I don't get it but I am a little worried that if I resign myself to getting a G4 (so I don't have to wait anything up to a year for these G5s to get to OZ), then I might suffer the same fate as those who bought the last iteration of the Ti book, when the AL book appeared within a few months...

*Sigh* :confused:

[jbrown]

Several people have pointed out the fact, and backed it up with proper debate and arguement, that a 1.5 G4 is more than enough for our needs - and this G5 thread is based on unreasoned hype.

I for example, ( 1.25 Al book ), am not a RoadWarrior Hollywood film editor / director / producer trying to edit and assemble Starwars 1 for release this weekend ( which is of course the image all advertisers like to portay of anyone with a laptop - you know the image --- young Brad Pit lookalike, with three days of oh-so-hunky stubble, comes in of the dusty jungle/desert road - its hot out there and he's obviously been on the road for weeks. From his well worn rucksack, he pulls out a gleaming, sleek, powerful laptop and tosses it onto the well worn bed. If he doesn't tie up the report ( with embedded feature length/quality movie he's done himself ) within the hour, then the whole trans-continental multi cultural billion dollar Patagonian Highway Electro Dam Inner Urban Regeneration Poverty Elimination Project will be lost ----- and the kids will go hungry ( he's only doing it for them ).

That or a super suited young business dickhead in the ' Corporate Boardroom ' scene - but I wont go into this one!!

Reality is that we just want to out-brag our mates most of the time, with the remaining time being used to frag opponents in Unreal Tournement - Killing Spree.

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............













..........but I sure do WANT one, he he he :D :D :D

[zepkin]

Maybe Apple will surprise with a PowerBook G5 somehow. Apple surprised us with the G5 and 12" & 17" PowerBooks, maybe they will surprise us again... Or maybe Steve will announce some crap, and no one will clap, like the somewhat embarassing iPod mini price announcement moment. Apple does surprise, though, maybe this time's not the time? But I sure hope it is.

G5 PowerMacs were NOT a surprise. The Mac community expected them. 12" and 17" PowerBooks were a surprise, up until the night before the announcement when info was leaked to Think Secret (?). G5 PowerBooks at this point would be a real surprise and should not be expected. At best, I think we can expect G5 PowerBooks at the end of the year. For this update we should see a speed bump, new graphics cards, and maybe larger hard drives.

[aswitcher]

You are missing the point. People who don't understand this are the same people who said no one would buy the iPod Mini because you can get a regular iPod with ~4x the HD space for $50 more. There are reasons people like or need to be portable. Or course you can get a faster desktop machine for the same price, but there is a market for people who want high-performance portablility, that's what the PowerBook is. People who need portability but don't need the cutting-edge buy iBooks.

I'd still like to see the long-rumored dual-G4 17" PowerBook if the G5s are going to take so long. If they came out with a dual-1.25+ GHz G4 PowerBook, I'd buy one right now (assuming you could disable one CPU when on batteries). Performance-wise, it would probably kick the arse of a single 1.4-2.0 GHz G5 PowerBook, even with the slow FSB.


Do you think they could squeeze two chips into the 17" this time around???? :rolleyes: Ok, wishful thinking until they do that dual thingy on the same chip...

But what a coup that would be.


I am a Geek, I can dream! :D

[Zaty]

AppleInsider:

Meanwhile, it appears that Apple is on target to refresh its portable offerings during the first half of next week, as previously anticipated. Taiwanese distribution sources have indicated that a number of iBook and PowerBook configurations are currently in air-transit to US distributors.

Additionally, multiple sources have now confirmed a majority of the Apple product numbers listed for the new laptops in an earlier report. According to an unconfirmed tip, among the many configurations planned for release are a 12-inch 1GHz G4 iBook equipped with a 30 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and a Combo Drive. The low-end 14-inch iBook model will reportedly pack a 1GHz processor, 40 GB hard drive, 256 MB RAM, and Combo Drive.

If the two entry level iBook configurations are indeed accurate, next week's product introductions will mark a milestone for Apple, as it will no longer be manufacturing a CPU unit with a clock-speed below 1GHz.

I only hope the 12" iBooks comes with a 40 GB HD. You can hardly find any current laptops with HDs smaller than 40 GB anymore. As for the introduction of an all 1GHz+ cpu line-up, this really is a milestone. That's why I'm pretty sure the 12" will come with a 1 GHz cpu and not, as some people still believe, with only a 933 MHZ chip. Although it's not much of a difference performance wise, it's important from a marketing point of view b/c many PC users thinking about switching would be more tempted if the 12" iBook came with a 1 GHz processor.

[aswitcher]

At best, I think we can expect G5 PowerBooks at the end of the year. For this update we should see a speed bump, new graphics cards, and maybe larger hard drives.

Come on, promise me better screen resolution as well :p

3 sleeps to go

[Reuven]

Slightly faster CPUs.....new video cards....hopefully more RAM....bigger HD....these are good things.

I don't see why everyone is hung up on the G5 thing. Do you really need more than 4GB RAM on your laptop? Do you even have that many slots? Are you really going to use 64 bits? Remember folks, the G5s aren't significantly faster clock-for-clock than the G4s. Maybe years down the road when compilers get *really* optimized and everyone starts releasing software specifically optimized for the G5 that will change. But today, it simply doesn't matter that much. Oh yeah, but to paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, "it's one faster isn't it?". Ok, whatever :rolleyes:


Some words of wisdom! I could not agree more.

I am pleased that I waited for the current PB range to come out , so what If there's no G5 its not likely as if there's going to be a 64 bit OS to support a G5 for a very long while yet.

For my general day to day needs im sure the new PB range will be more then enough to handle basic tasks that I require .

And as mentioned before just wait till you do install a 64 bit OS how fast will your G5's be then ah ? a lot slower then now I can guarantee! perhaps 30-40% slower then using a 32 bit OS would you agree ?

[QCassidy352]

And as mentioned before just wait till you do install a 64 bit OS how fast will your G5's be then ah ? a lot slower then now I can guarantee! perhaps 30-40% slower then using a 32 bit OS would you agree ?

you're saying a 64 bit chip will run 30-40% *slower* with a 64 bit OS than with a 32 bit OS? :confused:

[zepkin]

Maybe I haven't done such a good job reading the posts. One thing that I would LOVE to see if better battery life or a new battery technology. There has been much talk about fuel cell batteries, which for me would be the one thing that would coerce me to give up my iBook for a PowerBook. A higher resolution monitor would also help convince me to 'switch' to the PowerBook. These are two improvements that I would value over even a G5. For me personally, CPU speed isn't that big of a deal. I'm all about screen real estate and battery life...and sleek, sexy design...

[Reuven]

you're saying a 64 bit chip will run 30-40% *slower* with a 64 bit OS than with a 32 bit OS? :confused:


Well that is what I do imagine will happen yes a decrease is speed overall.

[aswitcher]

Maybe I haven't done such a good job reading the posts. One thing that I would LOVE to see if better battery life or a new battery technology.
I'm all about screen real estate and battery life...and sleek, sexy design...


The new Motos are meant to increase battery life by lowering the chips cycles when not in use or low usage, saving power. We should hopefully at least see that in the new specs.

[aussiemac86]

Some words of wisdom! I could not agree more.
And as mentioned before just wait till you do install a 64 bit OS how fast will your G5's be then ah ? a lot slower then now I can guarantee! perhaps 30-40% slower then using a 32 bit OS would you agree ?

Firstly i would like to say that i dont know much about this whole 32 bit OS running on a 64 bit chip thing.

But if a 64 bit OS will run slower on 64 bit chips (G5) than a 32 bit OS, what advantages are there to a 64 bit OS, surely apple wouldnt bother releasing it unless there was some advantages.

Im sure someone will be able to easily tell me why
cheers

[aswitcher]

Well that is what I do imagine will happen yes a decrease is speed overall.

I think you have this backwards.

The G5 64bit should allow more instructions/information each cycle thus increasing the speed by some substantial percentage. Less cycles to do the same work means its faster.

[Kagetenshi]

Oh gosh, don't trip over the Megahertz Myth.

There is much more to speed than the Ghz.

The Hertz rating is an excellent measure of performance within a single processor line. The myth isn't that Hertz matters, it's that Hertz comparison between processors has any point.

Thank you, please play the troll game again.

~J

[Reuven]

I think you have this backwards.

The G5 64bit should allow more instructions/information each cycle thus increasing the speed by some substantial percentage. Less cycles to do the same work means its faster.


But would,nt a 64 bit OS put a heaver load on the CPU & other hardware components thus slowing down a system ?

[aussiemac86]

If we assume that there will be updates to laptops next week, considering that emacs were updated last week what do u think the chances are of another update(PM or iMac) is next week, have we entered an "update season"?

[Windowlicker]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

well, i possibly would... I don't really need all the power at the moment (sure fast will be slow in meantime, but still). Also I checked out some powermac stuff at apple store and found out I would get a dual 1.42 G4 for a better price than the single 1.6G5. the dual must be faster. The only actual bad thing about the dualg4 I can think of it's a lot louder than the G5.

So what I'm trying to say here is that the G5 isn't really the word of God, eventhough it might be revolutionary. The "when we do it we want to get it right" applies here too. It's microsoft that sells products that need further tweaking all the time -- let's not hope the same from Apple.

[Telomar]

And as mentioned before just wait till you do install a 64 bit OS how fast will your G5's be then ah ? a lot slower then now I can guarantee! perhaps 30-40% slower then using a 32 bit OS would you agree ?Unlikely. There might be a small performance hit (a couple percent) but that's from greater pointer sizes. Certainly nothing close to 30 or 40%.

[Falleron]

All this talk of faster G4's is fine (I expect about a 1.5Ghz). However, I think the main update will be some even better LCD's for the laptops.

[Windowlicker]

Why is the speed bump so important now? what if they just added more stuff to the same price? The laptops now have a ridiculous RAM size (256, 512 on the supermegamacs) and there is need for bigger hds too. I'd love to see this:

PB 12" SuperDrive
$1,599.00

12.1-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR266 SDRAM x
60GB Ultra ATA/100 x
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB DDR) x (this doesn't have to be upgraded, but it would be good for external displays.. also if playing games and such -- where an external displays comes in too)
Full size keyboard
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
FireWire 400
AirPort Extreme Ready
Mini-DVI out

But I guess it's not gonna happen. the 1GHz will be bumped a bit and they add a bigger HD. I still would have to buy more ram. The superdrive has to be there. a cd is much too small for the data sizes these days.

[visor]

So, what's it gonna be?

A new 12" 900 ibook with 40 gb HD

Maybe 100Mhz more the other models plus 10 gig more HD
If we're very lucky, the 12" can host more than 640mb ram :rolleyes:

And deliverey is expected in 6 weeks...

[Sedulous]

What I don't understand is why they can't simply put "slower" G5 chips in upcoming updated hardware? Even a bottom of the line G5, say a 1.5 GHz, is faster than top of the line G4. The 1.5 GHz G5 runs cooler than the 1.4 GHz G4. There shouldn't be a deficit of slow first generation G5s. At least using these lowered speed G5s would be a positive step.

[visor]

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)


So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.
.

Well, the G5 is not only better clock for clock, it also much better at sound in your ear - a 1.42 Ghz G4 is completely unberable in the old PM casing. even a single 1.2Ghz G4 is a pain in my ear - that's a very good reason to get a G5 in the first place. Now, let's look at performance - well, G5 is faster, but it's not the G5 alone - the complete bus was redone, beeing able to push something like what? I can't remember the factor of more data per second. AH, AN EXAMPLE: The G4 AGP bandwidth maxes out at about 600MB/s
In the G5 you get AGP 8x for a mere 2.1GB/s.
Now memory management was completely redone, allowing up to 16GB/s Bandwidth.

Now, what it comes down to is - G4 is hosted by a sorryly outdated system architecture with a lot of bottlenecks und unergonomic (noisy) casing.
The last part is a real turn off for me, and in turn for the computer. So no matter what you do with the PMG5 - even if it's just idling - as long as you are in the same room with it, it's always the better choice.

[visor]

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............


Hey, I need one to be able to optimize my code for it. In fact I need a double, to be able to optimize for a multithreded system :cool:

[MacBram]

The Hertz rating is an excellent measure of performance within a single processor line. The myth isn't that Hertz matters, it's that Hertz comparison between processors has any point.

Thank you, please play the troll game again.

~J

I don't think I would be disparaging towards him for "playing the troll game."
It is normally trolls or PC folk who compare only proc speeds. Yes, you have a point about comparisons being accurate within a single processor line (all other things being equal). However, his point was to question your apprarent pooh poohing of a mere 20% increase in speed (or whatever it was), without taking into account possible upgrades of other components. Also it came across that you felt a) it wouldn't be worth Apple's efforts, or b) it wouldn't be worth anyone waiting for.

I think most people's feeling is that it will be other updates to other parts of the PB that when taken in combination will make this a worthwhile upgrade. That consensus is what dispels the "megahertz myth", while you seemed to be looking at MHz alone. You may disagree with people that are not trolls; in fact I am sure you will.

Obviously, I feel it's worth waiting two or three days, but perhaps no longer if you are ready to buy a PB now.

Rip

[mmmbop]

I'd like to see Airport Extreme standard across all books (or at least the PowerBooks). And similar price adjustments in the UK as we saw with the eMacs.

Wireless is picking up momentum. Apple should be leading this like they have done with numerous other technologies - but an Airport card costing £70 on top of the notebook starts to hurt even when you're on a reasonable budget.

[visor]

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)


The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test.

How did you get those 41% btw? Looking from the G5 perspective, G4 is only 29% slower...
Check it out: (1420/2000)*100 =71(%) so G4 is running at 71% frequency of the G5, which is 29% percent slower...

[HiRez]

What I don't understand is why they can't simply put "slower" G5 chips in upcoming updated hardware? Even a bottom of the line G5, say a 1.5 GHz, is faster than top of the line G4. The 1.5 GHz G5 runs cooler than the 1.4 GHz G4. There shouldn't be a deficit of slow first generation G5s. At least using these lowered speed G5s would be a positive step.Supposedly all the external components used with the chip (as currently assembled in the G5 PowerMac) also require too much power and need to dissipate more heat, especially the memory controller. Some of these will probably eventually be integrated into the CPU, but that takes time and engineering effort to achieve both by Apple and IBM. Also, even though the G5 (970fx) can generate less heat overall than a G4, the heat is more concentrated (smaller die size for the chip) and so can be harder to move away from the chip to dissipate it evenly, especially in the G5's ultra-thin enclosure.

[yujini]

How did you get those 41% btw? Looking from the G5 perspective, G4 is only 29% slower...
Check it out: (1420/2000)*100 =71(%) so G4 is running at 71% frequency of the G5, which is 29% percent slower...

If you have tried out 2000/1420 * 100 then it comes out to be about 40.8% which means that the G5 2ghz is about 41% faster than the G4 1.42.

Therefore, G5 2ghz is 41% faster, but the G4 1.42ghz is only 29% slower.
It all depends on which perspective u are looking from.

and if you don't believe in the mhz myth, then you would know that you can't really say this is wut percent faster just by comparing the mhz. You have to consider the IPC as well as many other factors.

[hmg]

:( And there I was hoping they might have done something to encourage me to switch rather than wait for the G5s...

Its going to be a tough call. If they do good things like drop the price, bump up the screen resolution, better ram or anything else, then I am going to be torn...

G5PB is 5 months off I guess...can I wait...?

Well, I just switched last weekend. I replaced My 1.6GHz P4m Thinkpad A31 with a Powerbook 17". I did some comparisons between a 1.6GHz Pm Thinkapd T40p and a Powerbook 15" 1GHz (both with 768MB RAM) and in my opinion the Powerbook is the equal of my T40p. So my partner will be very happy with the PB17 replacment for her A31. G4 is more than good enough for most things. You need video or render performance: get a G5 or Opteron desktop, if you're a heavy gamer: get na AMD box with a good display card. (of course these should be in addition to a Powerbook! ;) )

Never mind that I'm waiting until june/july for my T40p replacement! ;)

Have fun!

[HiRez]

How did you get those 41% btw? Looking from the G5 perspective, G4 is only 29% slower...
Check it out: (1420/2000)*100 =71(%) so G4 is running at 71% frequency of the G5, which is 29% percent slower...Flip it around: 2000/1420 = 1.408, meaning the G5 is 41% faster than the G4.

[TorbX]

I'm a 12" Rev A owner, and if a 15" 1.66 GHz G4 comes out, I'd gladly upgrade for double the speed..

I'm a 12" Rev A owner too, and I know that I'll be happy with it for years to come. Too bad for Apple though, they won't see me upgrading the nest 2-3 years. Good for me, because WHEN I do, I'll see major advances. How cool is G4 867 to G5 2,8 rather than G4 867 to G4 1,42 today?

[Zaty]

Rock On! So when are the g5 PBs comming out.....http://forums.macrumors.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=799226#

My guess still is MacWorld SF in January '05. Given the usual update cycle of the PBs, this would nicely fit in.

[CrackedButter]

I want a new laptop in September and i'm not paying for another G4, i bought a powerbook last year (1.25Ghz) and it was pants, i sold it two months later and bought an eMac. I'll buy another eMac in September if a G5 doesn't come out, i'm not even interested in a G4 iBook, i'd be paying for a laptop that has less speed than last year! I would keep the eMac but i promised to sell it on after the Paris Expo.

Also I believe that as Apple updates its product lines it will drop the prices in the UK to be more inline with the dollar which is nice and *might* change my mind if everything is cheaper. I only want 12 inches of G5 goodness. It isn't even the power i'm after, its the fact that the G5 WILL be cheaper than the G4 as like what happened with the G5 Powermac.

Btw, Apple have been working on a G5 laptop for more than a year, before the release of the PM, how long does it take?

[Mord]

No,no mate. They just can't, won't :D bump the bus up. 7447A is still 167 mhz. Go to Motorola web site and look for yourself.

motorola's website lies remember when it said g4' top out at 1 ghz but macs went faster it means apple is buying all the good ones so it cant advitise them

[pigwin32]

There are a couple of good reasons for wanting the G5 PB, the resale price on G4 PB's is going to tank and at the rate tech gets old it's important to get the fastest available processor. Plus the G5 will have to come in new packaging, I can't see Apple just slapping the G5 into the existing AlBook. When a large part of Apple's appeal is in the product design I want to own the new one (as opposed to the sorry state of desirability in the PC world (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1523503,00.asp)).

For people who are more interested in looking under the hood there are other good reasons to want the G5 PB. Right now the G4 is old and hamstrung by a slow bus, and the screen on the PB is well behind the screens available on PC laptops. For a company that has generally pushed out the boundaries of what is possible and introduced new tech to a mass market, the existing PB's are a bit common.

I would be thrilled to see new G5 PB's this rev but it just doesn't sound like it's going to happen. I don't believe the issues are insurmountable for Apple. The problems with IBM's 90nm chips notwithstanding the process will always produce chips rated for lower speeds. The way I understand it the chips are tested for speed and the high-speed ones end up in the high-spec boxen with the lower speed ones ending up in the likes of the PB's. And a 90nm 1.6Ghz G5 with its faster bus is a better option than a 1.6Ghz G4 with a 167Mhz FSB. Plus as previously pointed out by many, heat isn't necessarily the major issue others think it is.

Having said all that, if Apple ups the screen res by a reasonable amount I am going to be sorely tempted by a 1Ghz jump in processor speed over my existing TiBook, a larger hard drive, a superdrive, and built-in wireless and bluetooth. That will make my ssh terminal sessions just fly ;)

[rdowns]

hey, it's my old friend, the voice of reason! ;)

All of you who "won't buy a laptop until it's a G5" - do you even know why you want a G5? Or what you will do with it that you couldn't do with a G4? Or what the actual speed difference between a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5 would be?

The dual 2.0 Ghz G5 is clocked ~41% faster than the dual 1.42 Ghz G4. So if the two chips (G4 and G5) were equal, the dual 2.0 G5 should outperform the top-end G4 by 41% per test. Look here (http://www.barefeats.com/g5sum.html) ; it's barefeats' tests of those two computers compared. The G5 wins by between 25% and 117%, depending on test. The average G5 advantage over 10 tests is 66.1% over the G4. But remember, we would expect a 41% advantage based on clock speed alone!

So yes, the G5 is better clock for clock, but the difference is hardly night and day, as some people here seem to think. IMHO, a lot of people are being lured by the "cutting edge" technology and not stopping to think about either how much better that technology really is, or what they would actually do with it.

This message board stuff fuels itself. Someone says "the G4 is outdated and slow; we need G5s in powerbooks." Someone else repeats it, because they "heard it somewhere." It gets said over and over until it becomes accepted truth. Stop and think about what the differences really are, and what you really need.

Sure, many just repeat the mantra they hear on this forum and elsewhere but (while not in the market for a PB, I want an iMac) I have what I believe are sound reasons for wanting a G5 even though a G4 can do what I need it to do.

They are the future and I expect my next Mac to last 5 years unless I decide to upgrade for other reasons. Apple will in the next couple/few years release a 64 bit OS, I'd like to be able to run it without having to go out and buy a new Mac. At this point, I'd bet the next version of OS X will be the last to support G3s (and I own 2 of them). The one after that will probably be the last for the G4s. At one update per year, a G4 makes no sense for me.

If I'm spending a couple/few thousand bucks on a new computer, it should be state of the art technology. The G4 is simply not that. Don't kid yourself, if Apple could drop that puppy tomorrow for all G5s, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Would simplify their marketing and manufacturing to name but 2 advantages. Alas, that is not the Apple way. They have to cripple models to protect others and play marketing games rather than let the market decide. I say, put faster processors in all models and diffrentiate them with other features. The , let's cripple the iMac so we can force people to buy PMs doesn't work. Heaven forbid the "pro" users get upset because a "consumer" model is close in performance.


Jobs got up on stage last year and told the world that the G5 was the best; why should he offer me anything less, especially at the prices Apple charges?

While we hardly know what really is going on at Apple, it seems that their years of R&D with IBM on the G5 is behind where I believe they should be. I understand that marketing plays a role here but they have milked the G4 for all it's worth in their PB and iMac lines. What they just did with the eMac update was what we should have seen done to the PBs and iMacs months ago.

/rant off

[blogo]

Yea, I do see one for $799:

Inspiron 1150
Intel® Celeron® 2.40GHz
14.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM
20GB Hard Drive
24X CD/RW/DVD
Integrated Graphics
Starting at 7.17lbs

I like this image from Dell's site.
http://img.dell.com/images/global/learnmore/pentium_m_benchmark.gif

Whats with that image there, the machine uses a celeron CPU and i dont see that one in that little benchmark of those, and from what I know celerons are the #1 piece-of-crap CPU's on the market right now.

[wizard]

Well that is just not the case, it is pretty obvious that the G4 IS NOT ENOUGH for our needs. The problem is it is the only game in town right now for the portable market. I say that while holding out hope that the G5 or a derivative does end up in a portable with the next releases.

There are several good reasons to want a G5 based laptop one of which is resistance to obsolesence. Do not under some of the sound reasons for wanting a much faster laptop. Technology changes rather rapidly so this is a number one concern.

As to the 1.5 GHz G4, yes for many people it will do an excellent job but that does not mean that there are not people whom could make use of more performance. The problem with any G4 based machine is software development, as more "g5" based machines are targetted for new software the greater the likely hood that the G4 based machine will not perform well. So by buying a G4 based machine you are somewhat limited in future utility.

Dave

Several people have pointed out the fact, and backed it up with proper debate and arguement, that a 1.5 G4 is more than enough for our needs - and this G5 thread is based on unreasoned hype.

I for example, ( 1.25 Al book ), am not a RoadWarrior Hollywood film editor / director / producer trying to edit and assemble Starwars 1 for release this weekend ( which is of course the image all advertisers like to portay of anyone with a laptop - you know the image --- young Brad Pit lookalike, with three days of oh-so-hunky stubble, comes in of the dusty jungle/desert road - its hot out there and he's obviously been on the road for weeks. From his well worn rucksack, he pulls out a gleaming, sleek, powerful laptop and tosses it onto the well worn bed. If he doesn't tie up the report ( with embedded feature length/quality movie he's done himself ) within the hour, then the whole trans-continental multi cultural billion dollar Patagonian Highway Electro Dam Inner Urban Regeneration Poverty Elimination Project will be lost ----- and the kids will go hungry ( he's only doing it for them ).

That or a super suited young business dickhead in the ' Corporate Boardroom ' scene - but I wont go into this one!!

Reality is that we just want to out-brag our mates most of the time, with the remaining time being used to frag opponents in Unreal Tournement - Killing Spree.

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............













..........but I sure do WANT one, he he he :D :D :D

[SiliconAddict]

Be ready to wait another year or more...

Powerbooks aren't going to get G5s until well after the PowerMacs are updated...


I've been bookmarking all of these BS comments that are all based on zero facts. So if, more like when, Apple releases a G5 PowerBook before 2nd quarter of next year I can repost these comments.
FACT: Neither you nor anyone else out of Apple's labs know when a G5 PowerBook will show up. It very well could be that Apple is done with development and they are simply waiting for a large enough quantity of 90nm G5's to show up before shipping. Who knows. :confused:
If nothing else I'll lay cash Jobs is going to demo a G5 PowerBook at the WWDC this year with a shipping date of 3rd\4th quarter.

[gopher]

Maybe Apple will surprise with a PowerBook G5 somehow. Apple surprised us with the G5 and 12" & 17" PowerBooks, maybe they will surprise us again... Or maybe Steve will announce some crap, and no one will clap, like the somewhat embarassing iPod mini price announcement moment. Apple does surprise, though, maybe this time's not the time? But I sure hope it is.
There has been no G5 in the Powerbook line yet. You make it sound like it already happened.

[SiliconAddict]

So in summary -- there is not a single good reason why I, or most powerbook users here NEED a G5 laptop............
..........but I sure do WANT one, he he he :D :D :D


Hey J. Remember that comment when Apple releases a version of OS X further optimized for the G5 in the, probably not to distant, future.
I don't want to hear anyone bitching about how apple screwed them over or how their G4's are crap. No complaining OK? ;) :p

[gopher]

There are a couple of good reasons for wanting the G5 PB, the resale price on G4 PB's is going to tank and at the rate tech gets old it's important to get the fastest available processor. Plus the G5 will have to come in new packaging, I can't see Apple just slapping the G5 into the existing AlBook. When a large part of Apple's appeal is in the product design I want to own the new one (as opposed to the sorry state of desirability in the PC world (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1523503,00.asp)).

For people who are more interested in looking under the hood there are other good reasons to want the G5 PB. Right now the G4 is old and hamstrung by a slow bus, and the screen on the PB is well behind the screens available on PC laptops. For a company that has generally pushed out the boundaries of what is possible and introduced new tech to a mass market, the existing PB's are a bit common.

I would be thrilled to see new G5 PB's this rev but it just doesn't sound like it's going to happen. I don't believe the issues are insurmountable for Apple. The problems with IBM's 90nm chips notwithstanding the process will always produce chips rated for lower speeds. The way I understand it the chips are tested for speed and the high-speed ones end up in the high-spec boxen with the lower speed ones ending up in the likes of the PB's. And a 90nm 1.6Ghz G5 with its faster bus is a better option than a 1.6Ghz G4 with a 167Mhz FSB. Plus as previously pointed out by many, heat isn't necessarily the major issue others think it is.

Having said all that, if Apple ups the screen res by a reasonable amount I am going to be sorely tempted by a 1Ghz jump in processor speed over my existing TiBook, a larger hard drive, a superdrive, and built-in wireless and bluetooth. That will make my ssh terminal sessions just fly ;)

Screen resolution isn't everything. I've seen the higher screen resolution on the Dells, and it is so bad that you can't read anything. If you think the blurry fonts problem is a problem on Mac OS X, you'll despise having to see it at a higher resolution. With more pixels trying to cram blurred text together it will become even more blurrier. Apple found a fine balance in the pixel density of the 17" Powerbook.

[Tomaz]

Screen resolution isn't everything. I've seen the higher screen resolution on the Dells, and it is so bad that you can't read anything. If you think the blurry fonts problem is a problem on Mac OS X, you'll despise having to see it at a higher resolution. With more pixels trying to cram blurred text together it will become even more blurrier. Apple found a fine balance in the pixel density of the 17" Powerbook.

Completely true! I have aDell with 15" screen and 1600x1400, and it's terrible. Unreadably small at that resolution and way too blurry to be acceptable in any lower res! I actually hope Apple doesn't change screen res in the new PBs .

[jjmaximum]

Does anyone know what time on Sunday Apple is presenting at the conference and also, how we can find out what they said?

Two side notes:

As of Saturday morning the Apple Refurb site is stocked full of everything but G5s

How often does Apple update their top 10 sales...it hasn't changed in weeks.

[marmotte]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

I need a Powerbook now, not in 6 months. I'd rather get a new faster G4 right now, than a first generation G5, with all its potential unknown problems later.

So if Apple updates his laptops next week, I will serioulsy consider buying one.

MM

[klaus]

Well, thinksecret also confirms updates are coming on Monday..

So, the wait is over, rumors can begin about G5 powerbooks and powermacs again :p

Keep it up Apple!

[Ambrose Chapel]

think secret chimes in

The company will unveil new PowerBook and iBook models next week, reliable sources said, though exact specifications and feature sets are unclear.

However, sources firmly contended that Apple plans to announce the new laptops on Monday. Despite varying announcement dates spreading across the web, sources confirmed the Monday, April 19 date.


http://www.thinksecret.com/news/aprillaptops.html

[Zaty]

think secret chimes in



http://www.thinksecret.com/news/aprillaptops.html

Finally, the wait is over. I just wonder why there is no information on the specs. Given that the release is only two days away, it's amazing that Apple can still keep the specs secret. Are they going to surprise the way they did with the eMac update? I can't wait to find out.

Edit: I've just found the status of the PBs on the buyer's guide has been changed to "Don't buy updates soon"!

[KLFloyd]

A sub $1000 1Ghz 12" iBook...

I told myself I was going to retire my 3-year-old 500mhz PowerBook G4 when such a model was released. Yet I find I'm not *quite* ready to get rid of my beloved Titanium.

Do I upgrade now, or do I wait another 6 months? Ah that is the question...

What's Next?

[tsk]

Chances are the 700 dollar machine lacks an optical drive, and is thick, ugly, hot, and low battery life. I'd gladly spend the extra for an iBook.

Probably thicker, but I think with a CD drive. That wasn't the point though. Just that PC laptops can be had for much cheaper. I know I've seen 800 laptops at Best Buy and such and I don't think they were stripped down at all (256MB/CDRW).

[aswitcher]

There has been some speculation that an option on the powerbooks will be for a 128MEG VRAM, possibly the Mobility Radeon 9700.

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11921

What am I really going to get out of this card on a single G4 likely running 1.42 to 1.5 GHz?
Is this overkill for a non-dual/non-G5 machine?

EDIT
I did some research. Can't say I am convinced it would be worth the extra money http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/20040203/radeon_9700-14.html

[AidenShaw]

Whats with that image there, the machine uses a celeron CPU and i dont see that one in that little benchmark of those, and from what I know celerons are the #1 piece-of-crap CPU's on the market right now.

Celeron's are really Pentium 4 chips with 400MHz bus (3 times faster than the PB, right?) and a 128 KiB L2 cache.

They're also available retail, quantity one (1), for $77. That's why you see the low prices. Not everyone wants to pay for a speed demon....


The image is probably from a different part of the Dell site - I've seen it on the pages with Centrino laptops.

[Chillout]

Hi Everybody,

I am a TOTAL newbie. I am currently a PC user who cannot take Windows any more. I have decided to get an Apple PowerBook and "start my life fresh". I know that's a bit dramatic, but that's what it feels like. Windows 98 crashes EVERY DAY on me at work, and I can't handle having to deal with it at home too. I've reformatted so many times, and fixed so many glitches, bugs and problems, I could literally be tech support at a Fortune 500 company. And I want to get off Windows and onto a better system. I HEAR Apple is better, and I pray to God everybody is telling the truth and not just trying to "sell me".

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM. Is the RAM soldered onto the Motherboard? I know some laptops come with a minimum amount soldered on. If I need more for GarageBand or if my dad's Java site is as slow as it is on Windows, I have a friend who works at a distributor-type place who says he can get me good quality Apple RAM cheaper than Apple. Should I get the minimum RAM from Apple and have my friend sell me the Gig RAM stick?

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer? I find my PC okay for speed with what I do, I'm hoping the PowerBook will be faster, but I really have no idea. I've looked all over, and I found a million Mac vs. Mac speed tests, but not many Mac vs. PC tests for the G4 PB. So I have no clue what I'm getting myself into.

I hope somebody reads this and has some good advice, because I originally thought it would be a good idea to wait for the second G5 PowerBook, but I don't think I can wait that long -- unless there's a good reason. So now I'm ready to crack and I'm totally confused. You guys know what I want to do with this machine: do I need more power? Are you satisfied with the OS performance? Am I missing anything?

Help!

[seelab]

If I'm spending a couple/few thousand bucks on a new computer, it should be state of the art technology. The G4 is simply not that.

I agree. I'm not gonna spend my money on another G4 @ 1,5 Ghz.
8 months for just a 170 Mhz upgrade ? Sorry Apple but i'm not interested.

[mklos]

So I read somewhere, that seemed to be a legitimate source, that Microsoft will put three G5s in the next xbox.

So your telling me apple can't figure out to put one in the powerbook?

--
IBM Thinkpad 600e PII 366
Smok'in

An Xbox is able to have huge cooling fans in them if needed. Its not like the Xbox is pressed for space like the PowerBook. I think the main issue with a G5 in a PowerBook would be massive heat. Look at the heat sinks on the PowerMac G5, they're as tall as the G5 is wide. So in other words its about 8 inches wide, so the heat sinks are 8 inches high. That kinda tells me that its not easy cooling these puppies. And until they find out a reliable way to do that then you won't see any G5 based PowerBooks. The G5 also uses a lot of power and so IBM would need to build a scaled down version (one that doesn't use as much power) so that it wouldn't suck the life out of the battery.

A 250MHz is a noticeable jump in speed. Apple did it with the flat panel iMacs going from 1 GHz to 1.25 GHz. If it has a faster FSB then you also see a speed increase there too. Rumored reports were saying the that this new G4 chip would support a 200 MHz FSB. Its not much but its better than nothing!

[mklos]

Hi Everybody,

I am a TOTAL newbie. I am currently a PC user who cannot take Windows any more. I have decided to get an Apple PowerBook and "start my life fresh". I know that's a bit dramatic, but that's what it feels like. Windows 98 crashes EVERY DAY on me at work, and I can't handle having to deal with it at home too. I've reformatted so many times, and fixed so many glitches, bugs and problems, I could literally be tech support at a Fortune 500 company. And I want to get off Windows and onto a better system. I HEAR Apple is better, and I pray to God everybody is telling the truth and not just trying to "sell me".

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM. Is the RAM soldered onto the Motherboard? I know some laptops come with a minimum amount soldered on. If I need more for GarageBand or if my dad's Java site is as slow as it is on Windows, I have a friend who works at a distributor-type place who says he can get me good quality Apple RAM cheaper than Apple. Should I get the minimum RAM from Apple and have my friend sell me the Gig RAM stick?

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer? I find my PC okay for speed with what I do, I'm hoping the PowerBook will be faster, but I really have no idea. I've looked all over, and I found a million Mac vs. Mac speed tests, but not many Mac vs. PC tests for the G4 PB. So I have no clue what I'm getting myself into.

I hope somebody reads this and has some good advice, because I originally thought it would be a good idea to wait for the second G5 PowerBook, but I don't think I can wait that long -- unless there's a good reason. So now I'm ready to crack and I'm totally confused. You guys know what I want to do with this machine: do I need more power? Are you satisfied with the OS performance? Am I missing anything?

Help!

For what you want to do with your PowerBook, even the current line up would be fine for you. Especially if you stick 1 GB of RAM in it. Make sure those RAM sticks are SODIMMs. All of Apple's laptops take SODIMMs. No there is no RAM soldered on to the logicboard (aka motherboard) in a PowerBook. Everything it totally removable. The 15, and 17" PowerBooks have 2 RAM slots in them and 1 or both of them may be used when you buy your PowerBook. I think the SuperDrive model comes with 512MB of RAM and that may be with 2 x 256MB SODIMMS or with 1 X 512MB SODIMMs. If you order this on the Apple website then you can have them put just (1) 512MB SODIMM in it for a small amount more, but if your going to put a 1 GB SODIMM in it then you may just want to not worry about that. Having 1.25 GB of RAM is pretty good.

Mac vs. PC tests are hard because the OS operates different, uses different instructions, etc... than a PPC processor that are in Macs. Mac OS X is a very efficient OS and runs pretty well on just about any G3, G4, and G5 based Mac. I have OS X running on my mom's 233 MHz G3 iMac (Rev. A) with 256MB of RAM and it runs pretty darn good. I have a 1 GHz Flat Panel iMac and it runs beautifully. Boot times are in the 20 to 25 second range, you get about 1, maybe 2 bounces of a dock icon when you click on it to launch. Everything is quick on mine. So you should see a good difference in power. I have a 450 MHz single processor IBM PC and I notice a huge difference between my 1 GHz iMac and my 450 MHz PC. So you should too.

I don't see any G5 based PowerBooks coming out anytime soon. I would though wait and see if they are in fact going to be updated in the near future. Give it a few weeks if not updated next week. Keep in mind also that Apple VERY rarely ships a product when they say they are going to. If they do introduce new PowerBooks (G4, or G5), they probably won't ship them until sometime next month no matter what they say unless its announced that they are available that same day they are introduced.

Go ahead and make the switch. Your Java site seems to be working. Near the bottom of the page I can switch companies by putting in the different letter combinations (i.e. aapl for Apple Computer) and it goes right in nice and fast.

BTW...Yes iLife '04 comes with all new Macs today, Garageband included!

[tsk]

I think the main issue with a G5 in a PowerBook would be massive heat. Look at the heat sinks on the PowerMac G5, they're as tall as the G5 is wide. So in other words its about 8 inches wide, so the heat sinks are 8 inches high. That kinda tells me that its not easy cooling these puppies.

The 90nm G5 CPU's draw half the power of the G4 (I am quoting that figure without looking it up so maybe it's off a bit).

So, I'm kinda getting sick of people claiming that heat is the issue. If the G5 draws half the power, it emits half the heat.

This is just conservation of energy:

Power is Energy per unit time
Energy in = Energy out basically
Hence about half the power is going to be half the heat

Now, granted the bus may be faster, which will give off more heat, but the CPU will not be killing the heat of the system.

I also am aware that the G4 has some power saving capabilities, I'm just trying to dispell this notion that the G5 puts out twice the heat.

[elo]

Steve said there would be a G5PB by the end of 2004. I know there are problems with the G5 but its only April and Apple have had prototypes to work with for more than 6 months from what other posters are saying. We know the G5 90nm is cheaper, cooler and low power - which makes me think its perfect for a powerbook. What really compelling evidence do you have that their will be no G5 this year?

Sorry, aswitcher, I can't disclose evidence here. One of the pitfalls of reading rumor sites, I suppose. Nevertheless, I can flatly assure you that there will be no G5 PowerBook in 2004. (But, as I indicated earlier, this is not seen as a problem. While we all get hung up on the respective chips' brand names, there is plenty of cutting-edge technology in the G4 chip and upcoming G4 PowerBook revisions, should there be such a thing, will be extremely competitive with anything else on the market.)

To Chillout: You might want to make a purchase in the next couple of weeks. I just tried you site in Camino and it works beautifully. Speed wise, you'll be more than satisfied - just make sure your new machine has at least as much memory as your old one. (In fact, I would suggest doubling it, but I think that's always good advice when replacing a computer that's at least a couple of years old.)

elo

[elo]

One clarification to my above post, since I re-read aswitcher's comment. There are no "problems" whatsoever with the G5. The chips exceed expectations in every way. But putting a new chip in a notebook is more than a matter of just swiching it out. To give only one example, if Apple were to release a much faster PowerBook that took a noticeable battery life hit, people would complain. People expect progress on every front at once, or at the very least, they expect that *no aspect* of a new product will be inferior to an old one. To a company, that usually means that the speed of adoption (say, of new chips) is sometimes slower than what people would want, but it's well worth it in terms of keeping actual customers satisfied with what they buy.

elo

[marmotte]

"Croquer la pomme" just posted some tentative prices for the new laptops in Europe/France. The prices seem to be lower as well (probably to offset the demand for Powerbook G5, which they won't meet). If the price drops in Europe are indicative of the prices in the US, the new prices would be as follows ( I rounded off to more common price points for Apple, for example $1499 instead of $1490):

M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz $1,099
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz $1,250
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz Unknown

M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz $1,799
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz $2,399
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz $2,499

That would put the new 17" Powerbook at $100 cheaper than the current 15" Superdrive...

See http://croquer.free.fr/

MM

[Zaty]

One clarification to my above post, since I re-read aswitcher's comment. There are no "problems" whatsoever with the G5. The chips exceed expectations in every way. But putting a new chip in a notebook is more than a matter of just swiching it out. To give only one example, if Apple were to release a much faster PowerBook that took a noticeable battery life hit, people would complain. People expect progress on every front at once, or at the very least, they expect that *no aspect* of a new product will be inferior to an old one. To a company, that usually means that the speed of adoption (say, of new chips) is sometimes slower than what people would want, but it's well worth it in terms of keeping actual customers satisfied with what they buy.

elo

Thanks elo for your comments on the "G5 issue". I can only hope those out there who still believe we'll see a G5 PB anytime soon finally start to realise that it's not going to happen. People, why can't you believe that this is not some sort of marketing ploys of Apple's. I'm pretty sure if Apple could release a decent PB G5, they would do so. If you are in the market for a new PB, buy one once the new revisions are out. I'm sure you won't regret your purchase. If you want a G5 PB, accept that you will have to wait another eight months or so. :)

[irmongoose]

marmotte: The high-end iBook more expensive than the low-end PowerBook? That's absurd!



irmongoose

[James L]

aSwitcher:

How's things? I found that quote from Jobs in an old MacRumors post:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml

I think it was September 2003.

Cheers!

[eazyc10]

Some words of wisdom! I could not agree more.

I am pleased that I waited for the current PB range to come out , so what If there's no G5 its not likely as if there's going to be a 64 bit OS to support a G5 for a very long while yet.

For my general day to day needs im sure the new PB range will be more then enough to handle basic tasks that I require .

And as mentioned before just wait till you do install a 64 bit OS how fast will your G5's be then ah ? a lot slower then now I can guarantee! perhaps 30-40% slower then using a 32 bit OS would you agree ?

Have you not heard of the AMD64, ultraSPARC, itaniums.....? Having a 64bit processor running on a true 64-bit OS will not reduce performance since the operating system will utilize all 64-bits! if anything I would say a 64-bit processor running on a 32-bit os would be slower but a very minor difference.

[synthetickittie]

aSwitcher:

How's things? I found that quote from Jobs in an old MacRumors post:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml

I think it was September 2003.

Cheers!

umm he said that they would "like" to have it by the end of the year... and I would "like" to have money to buy a dual g5 but not gonna happen any time soon

[skinEman23]

Celeron's are really Pentium 4 chips with 400MHz bus (3 times faster than the PB, right?) and a 128 KiB L2 cache.

They're also available retail, quantity one (1), for $77. That's why you see the low prices. Not everyone wants to pay for a speed demon....


The image is probably from a different part of the Dell site - I've seen it on the pages with Centrino laptops.

What exactly does the system bus do? I would think that would be a serious bottleneck on the G4 to have such a low bus. Is there a possibility of a system bus upgrade with a G4 or are all G4's the same in that respect?

[seelab]

I can only hope those out there who still believe we'll see a G5 PB anytime soon finally start to realise that it's not going to happen.

Spending my money on a pathetic G4 upgrade is not going to happen.
I'm sure Powerbook G5 will be announced in september in Paris. And i'm sure it's worth the wait.

[form]

I would suggest to mklos - Entirely on the assumption that his current model is a Desktop system - that he should either get a new pc or update his current one, rather than going mac. Win2k and XP are considered more reliable than 98, for instance, so an OS upgrade is a thought. Second, since he has the freedom, in a pc, to change out critical internal parts, he could buy a new motherboard, processor, ram, and low end graphics card, which would serve him well for a long period of time, for a few hundred dollars. Mac laptops are probably the least impressive of all the macs, to me (next to the modern iMac).

If you're using a pc laptop, then I have no suggestions, but don't assume that loaded words like "efficient os" mean that a mac laptop will run or feel faster than an equivalent pc. Most mac users are quite accustomed to a certain speed range which is sub-par, so you just can't go by them.

[johnnyjibbs]

I still think there is some credit to this. And I think the eMacs last week were the biggest confirmation yet that updates were about to occur. They just got the eMacs out of the way first. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw updated Power Macs and iMacs this week or next either.

Also, as I keep saying, the 8x Superdrive in the eMac is key. This certifies that the eMac is on its 'next generation' so all the other product lines need to get to that 'next generation' now too.

[James L]

umm he said that they would "like" to have it by the end of the year... and I would "like" to have money to buy a dual g5 but not gonna happen any time soon


ummmm, exactly, which was the point of the conversation between aSwitcher, who asked about the date of this quote, and I. You might want to read back for the entire conversation.

In essence, I was saying that Apple has never said there would be G5 PB at this time, that they had in fact said the opposite with the above Jobs quote and with another quote saying the G4 still had a long life in the PB.

I DO have the money for a dual G5 tower, but hate being tied to a desk so a new PB will work just fine for me!

[wordmunger]

"Croquer la pomme" just posted some tentative prices for the new laptops in Europe/France. The prices seem to be lower as well (probably to offset the demand for Powerbook G5, which they won't meet). If the price drops in Europe are indicative of the prices in the US, the new prices would be as follows ( I rounded off to more common price points for Apple, for example $1499 instead of $1490):

M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz $1,099
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz $1,250
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz Unknown

M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz $1,799
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz $2,399
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz $2,499

That would put the new 17" Powerbook at $100 cheaper than the current 15" Superdrive...

See http://croquer.free.fr/

MM

I hate to burst your bubble, people, but I think those are euros, not dollars. Current conversion rate is 1 euro=1.19 dollars.

[seelab]

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw updated Power Macs and iMacs this week or next either.

PowerMacs (and displays ?) updates are for WWDC. I received an Apple newsletter with promo on PowerMacs + Display ending June 26 ...
http://email.euro.apple.com/store/asnews/april2004/seg4/befr/index_befr.html

[Krevnik]

Have you not heard of the AMD64, ultraSPARC, itaniums.....? Having a 64bit processor running on a true 64-bit OS will not reduce performance since the operating system will utilize all 64-bits! if anything I would say a 64-bit processor running on a 32-bit os would be slower but a very minor difference.

Uh.... The PPC 64-bit spec is a lot different from previous specs. Remember, the PPC was a 64-bit specification, with a 32-bit sub-spec. The whole design was based around 32-bit and 64-bit co-existing without any performance loss. The fixed size of PPC instructions, how registers are used in the PPC, and other things means that for the most part... 32-bit and 64-bit code will run at the same speed on a G5.

Any difference between 32-bit code and 64-bit code on a G5 will not be noticable... less than 1% (estimating). IBM/Apple/Motorola knew what they were doing when they wrote up the first specs for the PPC.

[iAtom]

I hate to burst your bubble, people, but I think those are euros, not dollars. Current conversion rate is 1 euro=1.19 dollars.

No I think he converted the prices that appear on the website using the current exchange rate. You can see the original here: Croquer dans la (Google Translation) (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://croquer.free.fr/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://croquer.free.fr/%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff).

Edit: grammer.

[iAtom]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like I would rather have a updated G4 Powerbook at this point. A rev. a G5PB would likely have a lot more problems than a rev. whatever G4PB (I haven't been following Macs for very long). And a G5 won't be able to do anything that I need it to that the G4 can't. I will do basic computing tasks such as word processing and internet, I plan on doing a lot with iLife, and some games. I am not an avid gamer though and don't need the best frames per second and everything. So as long as my computer meets the requirements I'll be fine. A updated G4PB will more than meet the requirements for all the games I plan on playing (Unreal Tournament 2004, Call of Duty, Worms 3D :D)

[Cochrane]

What I'd like to see would be a G5 iBook at the current price. Anyway, if really new iBooks come out I'm gonna buy one instantly.

[iAtom]

What I'd like to see would be a G5 iBook at the current price. Anyway, if really new iBooks come out I'm gonna buy one instantly.

G5 iBooks are a looong way off. Apple is still selling off some G3 iBooks in the referbished section.

[Cochrane]

G5 iBooks are a looong way off. Apple is still selling off some G3 iBooks in the referbished section.

Yes, I know, but you have to admit that it would be cool. I personally do not expect G5 iBooks within the next 2 or 3 years.

Something different: There has been unclear information about "updated graphic capabilities". Does anybody have a clue what that might mean, concerning the iBooks?

[Grokgod]

There is alot of talk about the new G4's being a great version of the powerbook and that the G5 powerbook if and when it comes out would be a REV A, obviously very dangerous!

But does anyone know if the problems with the current G4 powerbooks have been resolved?

I had one of those versions and IT was a NIGHTMARE!
All apple would say was that it was operating within specs.LOL

Whitespots!
Bad video respose!
Overheated Palm Rest!
Poor case assembly!

Overall just plain irritating.
If that was operation within specs then this upcoming upgrade means nothing. I am just curious if anyone has heard about these issues being resolved, especially the LCD problems they had at they new manufactoring plant or whatever the excuse was!

[marmotte]

I hate to burst your bubble, people, but I think those are euros, not dollars. Current conversion rate is 1 euro=1.19 dollars.

No that's incorrect. The prices in Euros are on the "Croquer la pomme" web site. The prices I gave above are a projection in US $ based on the full price drop in Euros between the old and the new prices that "Croquer la Pomm" published. If the same equivalent price drop %-wise is applied to the current US prices., this is what you get.

These prices are in US $.

MM

[Snowy_River]

Well, thinksecret also confirms updates are coming on Monday..

So, the wait is over, rumors can begin about G5 powerbooks and powermacs again :p

Keep it up Apple!

For all those who said, 'I won't believe it until ThinkSecret says they're coming...'

http://www.ghwphoto.com/smilies/grin.jpg

[Awimoway]

I would suggest to mklos - Entirely on the assumption that his current model is a Desktop system - that he should either get a new pc or update his current one, rather than going mac. Win2k and XP are considered more reliable than 98, for instance, so an OS upgrade is a thought. Second, since he has the freedom, in a pc, to change out critical internal parts, he could buy a new motherboard, processor, ram, and low end graphics card, which would serve him well for a long period of time, for a few hundred dollars. Mac laptops are probably the least impressive of all the macs, to me (next to the modern iMac).

If you're using a pc laptop, then I have no suggestions, but don't assume that loaded words like "efficient os" mean that a mac laptop will run or feel faster than an equivalent pc. Most mac users are quite accustomed to a certain speed range which is sub-par, so you just can't go by them.

XP isn't any more secure from viruses, worms, etc. And it's not as reliable/crash-proof as many claim. Nor is it as fast as many claim. Trust me, any G4 with speeds above 800 is plenty of processing power for current OS X apps. I am a recent switcher and my DP 867 PowerMac has been plenty fast. I don't think Mac users have reduced speed expectations. I don't even know what you mean by that. Are you referring to raw numbers or actual performance? Maybe a Maya/Lightwave3D user like you cares only for top speed, but most of us care only about speed that's fast enough—regardless of whether it's the highest speed number available.

It's nice of you to steer this guy toward the cheapest solution, but it's not the quality-based solution. I strenuously disagree that there are any PC-based solutions that are superior to the Mac, excepting of course gaming needs or Windows-only app needs.

[Snowy_River]

...Look at the heat sinks on the PowerMac G5, they're as tall as the G5 is wide. So in other words its about 8 inches wide, so the heat sinks are 8 inches high. That kinda tells me that its not easy cooling these puppies...

Well, actually, it should tell you that you need a bigger cooling surface if you want to cool these puppies quietly. They don't produce that much heat, in comparison with some of what's out there. Apple just likes their computers quiet, with slow fans (which I really appreciate!).

The 90nm G5 CPU's draw half the power of the G4 (I am quoting that figure without looking it up so maybe it's off a bit).

Whoops! Wrong processor comparison. The 970FX (90nm G5) draws half the power of the 970 (130nm G5), not the G4. The G4 is still a cooler chip, though the 970FX narrows the gap considerably. Then, considering the reduction in heat from the 970FX's power conservation features, it may well be on a par with the current G4s. But the CPU isn't the only heat producer that could be delaying the G5 PB for heat reasons. The system controller in the G5 PMs is a very hot puppy, too.

[Snowy_River]

...I can't disclose evidence here... Nevertheless, I can flatly assure you that there will be no G5 PowerBook in 2004...

Sorry, elo, laying down blanket statements like this doesn't cut the mustard. Offer a reason why.

This is not to say that I definitely believe that there will be a G5 PB any time soon. Just that I find people saying things like this to be irritating, if nothing else.

http://www.ghwphoto.com/smilies/rolleyes.jpg

[HiRez]

Trust me, any G4 with speeds above 800 is plenty of processing power for current OS X apps. I am a recent switcher and my DP 867 PowerMac has been plenty fast. I don't think Mac users have reduced speed expectations. I don't even know what you mean by that. Are you referring to raw numbers or actual performance? Maybe a Maya/Lightwave3D user like you cares only for top speedI generally agree with you, however one "non-high-end" app that does seem like a resource hog is GarageBand. I don't own it yet but I played around with it on a 1.25 GHz iMac at an Apple store and it brought that machine to its knees...very sluggish. Which is odd because I still do a lot of my work on an "old" 800 MHz TiBook, including Cinema4D, After Effects, Photoshop, and Cubase SX, and those all perform well. Some of GarageBand's problems are just the first-version blues I think. For example, it was using ~28% of the CPU when completely idle. It should get better with time.

[Awimoway]

For all those who said, 'I won't believe it until ThinkSecret says they're coming...'

http://www.ghwphoto.com/smilies/grin.jpg

Indeed. That's solid confirmation. Now I'm 100% sure. Which brings to mind a new question.

Why Monday? Updates have traditionally always been on Tuesdays. And that brings to mind a second question.

What time, Monday? Since no press conference is announced, and since by all accounts these are just modest speed bumps, I would assume it will be like all other speed bump releases, with a quiet update of the Apple Store in the morning and perhaps the website main page will feature the new additions.

But since the Tuesday pattern isn't being followed, it makes me wonder if any other patterns will be changed as well. :confused:

[James Craner]

I am looking forward to these updates. I think these notebooks are important to Apple to try to increase market share, I helped switch one person to an iBook recently and another potential switcher is considering the 15" Powerbook. Now that wireless networking is catching on, people like the freedom of a laptop. Roll on the updates on Monday.

[fener]

"Croquer la pomme" just posted some tentative prices for the new laptops in Europe/France. The prices seem to be lower as well (probably to offset the demand for Powerbook G5, which they won't meet). If the price drops in Europe are indicative of the prices in the US, the new prices would be as follows ( I rounded off to more common price points for Apple, for example $1499 instead of $1490):

M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz $1,099
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz $1,250
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz Unknown

M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz $1,799
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz $2,399
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz $2,499

That would put the new 17" Powerbook at $100 cheaper than the current 15" Superdrive...

See http://croquer.free.fr/

MM


You CAN'T just directly convert the price.

The prices in Europe are decided after a couple of more additions, and thats why, when you directly convert them to $, they are Always higher than US prices.

So,if you DIRECTLY converted, and there will be a price drop (I don't think so), the US prices will be CHEAPER than the prices you listed.

[Bolt]

I work at Best buy. My store carries Apple. My GM, who just got promoted to DM has told me we will be getting new 12inch powerbooks, that there is an announcement this monday. I'm going to miss him when he leaves, no more insider information :)

[eSnow]

I see a lot of Apple-apologies here...

If you really believe the 7447 and the 970FX are playing in the same league, you are just kidding yourself. For once, the G5 reaches higher clock-frequencies than the G4. If the coming PowerBooks reach 1.5Ghz with the 7447A, this might seem a lot. With the 970FX, 1.8ghz should be possible.

Next: the bandwidth. The 7447 might have problems to saturate a 8x AGP, let alone IDE and Gigabit Ethernet at the same time whereas the 970FX really has power to burn. If you ever have experienced a G4 side by side with a Pentium M, you know what I am talking about. The G4 is deeply in iBook-territory, because it has such a low throughput. Of course the current PowerBooks are fine for web browsing, light photoshop and stuff, but if you really throw data at them, they _are_ slow.

Next: Max RAM. I have owned a PB 5300, a Wallstreet/233 and a Ti/400. They started with 8, 32, and 128MB RAM and ended their useful life with 24, 160, and 512MB. The next G4-Powerbooks will come out with 512MB - 1GB, so it is not inconceivable that RAM-requirements would go beyond the 2GB limit imposed by the 32 bit arch.

So, don't tell me I don't need a G5. Sure, I could replace my Ti/400 with a 1.3 Ghz G4 and experience quite a boost. However, since I do not replace my machines every other year, and do stuff like Java where RAM-Bandwidth and cache are of importancce, I would likely regret it later.
After the completely lackluster books Apple introduced in Sept., I bought myself the cheapest Centrino I could get and have not yet regretted it. Speedwise, it is eating anything Apple has to offer for lunch. Yes, I want to have a capable PowerBook as a main machine, but I certainly am not buying into the tail end of evolving technology.

Unless the next G4 has a completely revised RAM-interface and the 'book a much better display, I am simply waiting.

If your needs are different - more power to you. But please stop the "A G4 is such a capable CPU it is good for almost everyone"-posts. They are completely pointless.

[7on]

Hi Everybody,

I am a TOTAL newbie. I am currently a PC user who cannot take Windows any more. I have decided to get an Apple PowerBook and "start my life fresh". I know that's a bit dramatic, but that's what it feels like. Windows 98 crashes EVERY DAY on me at work, and I can't handle having to deal with it at home too. I've reformatted so many times, and fixed so many glitches, bugs and problems, I could literally be tech support at a Fortune 500 company. And I want to get off Windows and onto a better system. I HEAR Apple is better, and I pray to God everybody is telling the truth and not just trying to "sell me".

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM. Is the RAM soldered onto the Motherboard? I know some laptops come with a minimum amount soldered on. If I need more for GarageBand or if my dad's Java site is as slow as it is on Windows, I have a friend who works at a distributor-type place who says he can get me good quality Apple RAM cheaper than Apple. Should I get the minimum RAM from Apple and have my friend sell me the Gig RAM stick?

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer? I find my PC okay for speed with what I do, I'm hoping the PowerBook will be faster, but I really have no idea. I've looked all over, and I found a million Mac vs. Mac speed tests, but not many Mac vs. PC tests for the G4 PB. So I have no clue what I'm getting myself into.

I hope somebody reads this and has some good advice, because I originally thought it would be a good idea to wait for the second G5 PowerBook, but I don't think I can wait that long -- unless there's a good reason. So now I'm ready to crack and I'm totally confused. You guys know what I want to do with this machine: do I need more power? Are you satisfied with the OS performance? Am I missing anything?

Help!

http://www2.truman.edu/~jps137/web/javacharts.jpg
As far as I know, Apple uses the standard Java system

Chillout, Buy a new Powerbook Tuesday (unless new ones come out Monday, then buy Monday). Most people who complain about the G4 are either current switchers, non-Mac users, or Mac users who always sell their current Macs and buy the newest ones. Regardless, I've found that people who use older machines seem to be more confident in what Apple offers. Could be that they are wiser in Apple's decisions. No matter what Mac you buy you can be assured it will last a good 4-5 years. My Mac (little over one year old) is still as fresh as when I bought it. My Powerbook seems to still rival most PC books out there. Not in rendering or compositing times, but in shear "getting things done" time. That's why it's hard to find PC vs. Mac performance tests. Because they don't figure in the ease of use. I made the switch without any research and I'm completely happy with my purchase.

[elo]

Sorry, elo, laying down blanket statements like this doesn't cut the mustard. Offer a reason why.

This is not to say that I definitely believe that there will be a G5 PB any time soon. Just that I find people saying things like this to be irritating, if nothing else.

http://www.ghwphoto.com/smilies/rolleyes.jpg

Snowy, If I could offer more than I have, I would. It's immaterial to me whether you believe me or not. But I wouldn't suggest betting against my earlier statements on any major purchase decisions.

elo

[SuperChuck]

I'm a wee-bit confused. If an increase in processor speed still yields an increase in performance, how has the sub-par front side bus hampered the processor? I assume that it is limiting it from reaching its full potential, but by how much? And if it is such a big deal, what has stopped Apple from increasing the front side bus speed? Is it a major technical hurdle? Is it Apple's problem or Motorola's?

Would the almighty tech wizards please inform us mere mortals of the scoop on this before we lay out big wads of cash?

Thanks.

[Windowlicker]

XP isn't any more secure from viruses, worms, etc. And it's not as reliable/crash-proof as many claim.

word. my girlfriend recently got a computer. her dad was getting it to her since she's a student with no much spare money (as you sure can imagine). well, i told her to say her ol' pap to get her a mac, even a used one. the answer was a strict no, because "you can't get any parts on macs".

now she has her PC, which was pretty much free of charge (got from her fathers work or something), but what the hell?! it keeps crashing when left alone for 2 minutes -- losing all her works. nice one. the same happenened to her friend who also has a pc (got a virus that deleted pretty much everything).

ok I know there are mostly PCs that work just fine (especially if you know how to use them), but I think this is a good example what happens when you get the cheap solution. I'm pretty sure i could have gotten her a mac running os9 and a display for like 100 euros, which I think is a good price for a computer you use for checking your mail, surfing the web, writing etc.


now.... I'M SURE THERE WILL BE A G5 POWERBOOK ON MONDAY, RUNNING @ 3GHZ ;) (not, so stop wishing for it!)

[Snowy_River]

I generally agree with you, however one "non-high-end" app that does seem like a resource hog is GarageBand. I don't own it yet but I played around with it on a 1.25 GHz iMac at an Apple store and it brought that machine to its knees...very sluggish. Which is odd because I still do a lot of my work on an "old" 800 MHz TiBook, including Cinema4D, After Effects, Photoshop, and Cubase SX, and those all perform well. Some of GarageBand's problems are just the first-version blues I think. For example, it was using ~28% of the CPU when completely idle. It should get better with time.

Interesting. I have used GB a bit on my 867MHz 12"PB, and it doesn't seem all that sluggish. In fact, in general, it seems quite snappy. Don't know what was wrong with that iMac, but, as the saying goes, YMMV...

[wordmunger]

No that's incorrect. The prices in Euros are on the "Croquer la pomme" web site. The prices I gave above are a projection in US $ based on the full price drop in Euros between the old and the new prices that "Croquer la Pomm" published. If the same equivalent price drop %-wise is applied to the current US prices., this is what you get.

These prices are in US $.

MM

I think you're still wrong:

Ligne portable grand public
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz ...1169/1399
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz
M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz ...1002/1199

Ligne portable Pro
M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz ...1798/2151
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz ...2298/2749
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz ...2499/2989

The site says "Ce sont les Tarifs HT en Europe/ toutes taxes en France," which translates to "these are the HT prices in Europe/all taxes in France". I take that to mean the first price is the price without tax for Europe, the second is the price with tax in France.

I'm not going to do all of these, but let's take the 12-inch ibook as an example. The first price is the european price, without French taxes: 1002 euros. That would compute out to $1199, pre-tax. After taxes, we have 1199 euros, or $1430 (which apple would probably round to $1399). Your conversion was $1099.

Actually, it looks like the easiest way to translate to american prices is just to look at the French price with tax, which corresponds quite well (coincidentally) to the US price in dollars.

[James Craner]

Hi Everybody,

So here's my situation: Should I wait and buy a G5 or should I get the new PowerBooks that are supposedly coming out next week? I'm getting anxious to "switch", but if you guys tell me that the difference is going to be huge, AND that the difference will matter to me, then I'll wait. Here's what I want to do on my mac: a bit of photo editing in Photoshop Elements or the Gimp (which I use on Windows and is actually pretty good for what I do); web surfing, email, typing essays on boring stuff, iTunes, and GarageBand (I'm an amateur guitar player). GarageBand and iTunes comes free with every Mac now, right? Every couple days, my dad wants me to check his stocks for him on a Java website, http://www.prophet.net/analyze/javacharts.jsp, so Java sites have to work well too. If my Mac works well for me, my dad said he would dump Windows ME and buy a Mac, too. Could somebody check that Java site for me? Apple has their own Java version, I hear it's good, but I don't know without trying it. Is it as slow as Windows' version?

I'd be buying a 15" PB with a Gig of RAM.

Currently at home I'm running a dual Pentium 400 with 256 RAM and Windows 2000. How will the PowerBook compare speedwise with this computer?
Help!

Chillout, I have the current 1.25 GHz 15" Powerbook, and it can do with ease all the items on your wish list. I would have no hesitation in suggesting you switch next week, when the speedbumped Powerbooks come out ( In fact you may want to pick up a bargain on the current range of Powerbooks). I really think you will be waiting until October for the G5 Powerbooks. The G4 processors are more efficient that the Intel processors, and lets say Apple bring out a 1.4 GHz Powerbook next week, this will have the approximate performance of a 2GHz Intel chip. It will be much faster than you current setup.

[pigwin32]

Completely true! I have aDell with 15" screen and 1600x1400, and it's terrible. Unreadably small at that resolution and way too blurry to be acceptable in any lower res! I actually hope Apple doesn't change screen res in the new PBs .
I think you may be missing the point, a higher res screen doesn't have to mean miniature fonts. Better screen resolution is great for image/video editing/viewing. There's no reason why this shouldn't be available on a machine targeted at the visual arts. Scale the font/icon size up to a readable size. This is also possible to some extent on a PC.

[john123]

I cant see too many Apple fans buying a new powerbook with a G4 in it.

Only a G5 will persuade me to buy a new powerbook.

Ditto here. I owned a Pismo, a PB 550, a 667, and now a 1Ghz (Ti)...and I just can't justify the expense to get what is really a marginal performance increase for the current (and likely next) G4 models.

[QCassidy352]

Sure, many just repeat the mantra they hear on this forum and elsewhere but (while not in the market for a PB, I want an iMac) I have what I believe are sound reasons for wanting a G5 even though a G4 can do what I need it to do.

They are the future and I expect my next Mac to last 5 years unless I decide to upgrade for other reasons. Apple will in the next couple/few years release a 64 bit OS, I'd like to be able to run it without having to go out and buy a new Mac. At this point, I'd bet the next version of OS X will be the last to support G3s (and I own 2 of them). The one after that will probably be the last for the G4s. At one update per year, a G4 makes no sense for me.

If I'm spending a couple/few thousand bucks on a new computer, it should be state of the art technology. The G4 is simply not that. Don't kid yourself, if Apple could drop that puppy tomorrow for all G5s, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Would simplify their marketing and manufacturing to name but 2 advantages. Alas, that is not the Apple way. They have to cripple models to protect others and play marketing games rather than let the market decide. I say, put faster processors in all models and diffrentiate them with other features. The , let's cripple the iMac so we can force people to buy PMs doesn't work. Heaven forbid the "pro" users get upset because a "consumer" model is close in performance.


Jobs got up on stage last year and told the world that the G5 was the best; why should he offer me anything less, especially at the prices Apple charges?


Ok, *if* Tiger is the last to support the G3 and the next one is the last to support the G4, that means that it's fall 2006 when an OS comes out that doesn't support a G4. But that's a huge if. We almost certainly aren't going to see G5 powerbooks until 2005. Which means 2006 is the earliest ibooks are going to see a G5. So it's quite likely that at some point during 2006, ibook G4s are still going to be around. There's no way apple would release an OS that won't run on hardware sold earlier that same year.

Besides, Apple is still releasing operating systems that can run (not that well, but still) on 6 year old hardware (beige G3s). But you think that in 2006 they will release an OS that won't even run on 2 year old hardware? I think you're mistaken.

You're also at least partially wrong about why there are not G5s across the line. Yes Apple wants to differentiate between models, but have you seen the news coming out of IBM's Fishkill plant? It's not good. IBM is not producing nearly enough G5 chips to meet demand, and Apple is the only customer. Apple *may* be unwilling to have an all-G5 line up, but they are certainly *unable* to do so... so who cares what they *would* do if they could?

One other thing. For all the people saying that the G5 performance edge is not just about the chip, but the bandwidth and bus and such - but that's all already taken in to account in benchmarks. You can b**** and moan about how the G4 has no bandwidth, but these are benchmarks for the system as a whole. When you compare G4s and G5s clock for clock in the real world, everything about the architecture of the G5 is already part of that. The G5 is only showing an advantage of ~25% over the G4 beyond what we would expect due to clockspeed alone. Say what you want about the advantages of the G5's bandwidth, but that advantage is still only 25%. And yes the G5 *can* hit higher clockspeeds than the G4, but if they released a G5 powerbook with a 1.5 Ghz chip on Monday, everyone would be thrilled. The chip has great potential, but the real world options at this point would be something like a 1.5 Ghz G4 and a 1.5 Ghz G5.

[Iron Man]

These new Powerbooks better run UT2004 and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne perfectly at the best settings... think they will? :confused:

[HiRez]

I think you may be missing the point, a higher res screen doesn't have to mean miniature fonts. Better screen resolution is great for image/video editing/viewing. There's no reason why this shouldn't be available on a machine targeted at the visual arts. Scale the font/icon size up to a readable size. This is also possible to some extent on a PC.That's right, the idea is to keep the font height you see the same (IOW, the same size in relation to you, not the actual "point size"), but with more pixels to work with, you'll get smoother antialiasing on those fonts. More resolution, while not the only factor, is better if you use it correctly, as you point out.

The other thing I've noticed, and particularly on the PC side, is that very few people have their LCDs color-calibrated. This makes a huge difference in quality. The new Apple Display Calibrator offers some nice advanced controls for this, and the Supercal app is also good. I notice a lot of PC LCDs that have uncorrected gamma curves and the brightness all the way up, so you get the "blooming" effect where light pours out around small dark areas (like text) and spills over, greatly reducing legibility. Also most people keep the white point at ~9000K (unfortunately, usually the default), which is blueish. For good quality, it should be paper-white, which is usually more like ~5000-6500K.

[HiRez]

These new Powerbooks better run UT2004 and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne perfectly at the best settings... think they will? :confused:Perfectly? No. Although I have to say Warcraft III runs pretty well even on my 800 MHz PowerBook (Radeon 7500) at 1280x854. And for some games, a G4 'Book will never get it done. Halo, for example, can cripple even a dual 2.0 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 when you crank up the settings.

[iAtom]

These new Powerbooks better run UT2004 and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne perfectly at the best settings... think they will? :confused:

I doubt they will at the highest settings, but i'm sure they will run them very well (they more than meet all the requirements).

[Hattig]

WTF do they mean by integrated graphics? Does that mean it has a monitor attached?!? Is it even possible to have a laptop to NOT have integrated graphics? So that's like saying, "Buy our laptop because it features a screen, keyboard, trackpad, power button, battery, and 2 whole mouse buttons!"

Integrated graphics means that the chipset includes a graphics core, and that main system memory is used for the graphics display. These graphics cores are not very good typically (they've got to run cool for the laptop, and as they share the die with the northbridge they have less functionality)

i.e., Integrated graphics will take away system memory amd perform worse

On an iMac / PowerMac, the graphics are discrete, and have their own memory. Hence the graphics perform better and you don't lose main memory to graphics.

[Spazmodius]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

C'mon Apple! Throw us a better bone here, will ya? And IBM, where is this new portable chip??? What's going on!

Just imagine: iBook, 1.6GHz 750vx, 1 gig ram, $1400 tops...mmmmm

[Iroganai]

I hope the new iBook has 1280x1024 or something...
Does anyone know for sure?

[Hattig]

Hate to be off topic here, but.. Apple will most likly never have a 64-bit complied OS. Why, because 64-bit instruction is twice as large. Its a big waste.

Instruction size is not altered by being 64-bit.

64-bitness denotes the size of an integer register within a CPU, and how much memory can be accessed. That still doesn't stop you using 32-bit integers where you don't need 64-bit ones.

So the worst thing that will happen with 64-bit is that the size of data will increase in applications where 64-bit integers are useful, and hence processor cache will be used up a little bit more.

[marmotte]

I think you're still wrong:


The site says "Ce sont les Tarifs HT en Europe/ toutes taxes en France," which translates to "these are the HT prices in Europe/all taxes in France". I take that to mean the first price is the price without tax for Europe, the second is the price with tax in France.

I'm not going to do all of these, but let's take the 12-inch ibook as an example. The first price is the european price, without French taxes: 1002 euros. That would compute out to $1199, pre-tax. After taxes, we have 1199 euros, or $1430 (which apple would probably round to $1399). Your conversion was $1099.

Actually, it looks like the easiest way to translate to american prices is just to look at the French price with tax, which corresponds quite well (coincidentally) to the US price in dollars.

Forget the currency exchange rate.

Just look at the current price on the Apple France web site (Eur 1199 for a 12" 1 GHz PB), look at "La Pomme"'s prediction (Eur 1199 TTC): the price has not changed. Conclusion: The US price for the same laptop will not change either: the 12" 1GHz PB will stay at its current US price: $1099.

Now look at the current price on the Apple France web site (Eur 2988.80 for a 15" 1.25 GHz SuperDrive PB), look at "La Pomme"'s prediction for the new configuration it replaces (Eur 2749 TTC): the price has dropped 8%. The current US price for the same Powerbook is US$2599. Conclusion: If the US price for the same laptop drops 8% as well (which is the assumption for the entire exercise), the 15" 1.42 GHz SuperDrive PB will have a US price 8% below the current configuration it replaces or: $2599-208 = 2391, i.e. roughly $2399.

Do the same for the other configurations and you get my numbers.

MM

[aswitcher]

One clarification to my above post, since I re-read aswitcher's comment. There are no "problems" whatsoever with the G5. The chips exceed expectations in every way. But putting a new chip in a notebook is more than a matter of just swiching it out. To give only one example, if Apple were to release a much faster PowerBook that took a noticeable battery life hit, people would complain. People expect progress on every front at once, or at the very least, they expect that *no aspect* of a new product will be inferior to an old one. To a company, that usually means that the speed of adoption (say, of new chips) is sometimes slower than what people would want, but it's well worth it in terms of keeping actual customers satisfied with what they buy.

elo

Damn. I don't think I can wait til 2005. The PBG5 will likely be a great machine but 9+ months is a long time and I have been waiting about 7 already...

Can you say anything more on specs about the G4PB due out? Does it have a better screen? Will the G5PB have?

[aswitcher]

aSwitcher:

How's things? I found that quote from Jobs in an old MacRumors post:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml

I think it was September 2003.

Cheers!

Ok, so Paris 2003...mmm..."like" (as others have pointed out)...mmm... Well if the pricing on the 17" is the almost the same as the 15", and its reduced, I guess they aren't going to do much but bump the video card (a little :( ) and maybe a few other minor minor tweaks and that's it. Seems the winner of these delays is the iBook...

Huff. What to do...

[Hattig]

> M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz... 1798/2151
> M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz... 2298/2749
> M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz... 2499/2989

Right ... so the mere act of upgrading the combo drive to a superdrive will add €600 to the price of the Powerbook, but upgrading to a 17" screen and a faster processor beyond that is only another $250 ... ?

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?

If it doesn't have anything more, then more reasonable prices would be (inc. tax, as tax is part of the price in Europe, not an extra as in the US, so sold prices usually hit nice round numbers including the tax):

M9421LL/A Powerbook 15" Combodrive 1.42 GHz ... €2149
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15" Superdrive 1.42 GHz ... €2449
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17" Superdrive 1.50 GHz ... €2999

I personally don't trust that French site's details. However if it is true, then a 12" iBook 1 GHz G4 will probably be sold either at £799 in the UK. The current price is £849 for the 800 MHz G4. OTOH you can't underestimate the power of the 10% Apple Foreign Tax.

[Hattig]

>
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15" Combodrive 1.42 GHz ... €2149
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15" Superdrive 1.42 GHz ... €2449
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17" Superdrive 1.50 GHz ... €2999


And these in Dollars would be:

15": $2099
15": $2399 (remember this is my more logical price I'm converting)
17": $2949 (or even $2899)

(I took 19.6% tax off of French price, then used xe.com to convert, then rounded down to the nearest $50 to account for Apple International Tax)

The current prices are $1999, $2599 and $2999 - I don't see Apple wanting to lose that $1999 pricepoint either for the 15" which gives you an idea about how bad Apple International Tax is. Note that the current PBs have a 25% processor speed difference between the 15" CD and the 15" SD which is apparently gone with the new revisions too.

[TWinbrook46636]

> M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz... 1798/2151
> M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz... 2298/2749
> M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz... 2499/2989

Right ... so the mere act of upgrading the combo drive to a superdrive will add €600 to the price of the Powerbook, but upgrading to a 17" screen and a faster processor beyond that is only another $250 ... ?

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?


Probably a larger hard drive, more ram and Airport.

[AndrewMT]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

[Ja Di ksw]

What does the Superdrive 15" Powerbook have that the Combodrive 15" Powerbook doesn't?

What I've always found interesting is if you go to the Apple store and try to match up the combo drive 15" and the superdrive 15". Make everything the same, same HD, both with a superdrive, etc. The only things they have that you can't make the same are the one that started out as a superdrive has a backlight on its keyboard and a faster processor (1.25 instead of 1 GHz). Price difference (this is with a student discount on BOTH items)? $73. The difference in cost to get a keyboard with a backlight and a processor that's 25% faster is $73. And this is for a machine that costs roughly a couple thousand.

[Oirectine]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

Basically a revision implies just simple speed bumps on the existing design, and a new model would mean a new design all together. For example:

Around September or October of 2003, 15" Powerbooks were the "Titanium" models. The case was made of Titanium, the ports were on the back, and the look was similar to the previous version of Titanium PowerBooks. Then in September or October, Apple released the Aluminium 15" Powerbook--the case changed to aluminum, the ports were moved to the side, etc. It looked completely different, and as such, was not really a "revision" of the TiBooks, but a "new model." If Apple comes out with another "revision" of the Aluminum PowerBooks, the basic features (the look, design, and construction of the laptop) will remain pretty much the same, while a "new model" would imply a completely new design.

Does that make sense?

[Hattig]

This question may never get answered because it is on the ninth page! Anyway, what exactly is the difference between a "new model" laptop and a "revised" laptop?

Revised: Take previous laptop design (motherboard, casing) and use a faster but pin compatible processor, a larger hard drive, and larger memory, and maybe a better, but pin compatible, graphics processor. Maybe not all of these at the same time. Released at smaller events unless nothing is happening at all at a large event.

New Model: New motherboard design, possibly new casing design (say 50% of the time) all specifications improved. This is a Steve Jobs announcement type thing.

The iBook G4 last year was a new model, but used the old casing. This new iBook will be a revision (same innards but faster) but there are rumours of a new casing for it similar to the iPod mini styling. So if this comes to pass, it is more than a revision, but not quite a new model :)

[Stoffel]

I just hope they put the backlit keyboard in the 12 inch model, too.

[QCassidy352]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

C'mon Apple! Throw us a better bone here, will ya? And IBM, where is this new portable chip??? What's going on!

Just imagine: iBook, 1.6GHz 750vx, 1 gig ram, $1400 tops...mmmmm

an excellent point. I don't think it will happen since we have not heard anything about this chip in ages, but it would be the perfect answer for notebooks. Perhaps IBM is experiencing difficulties mass producing this chip due to the problems at Fishkill. Or maybe the chip isn't ready. Or maybe Apple is stubbornly sticking with moto's G4 for some inexplicable reason (1 button mouse, anyone?). I'd love to see 750vx chips in laptops too, but I think we'll be getting speedbumped Motorola G4s.

[ketha]

Well as someone who is looking to buy his first powerbook, the thing that shocked me most when looking at them was how much better the new sony viao onxy LCD screens look compared with almost anything available on any other platform. i think apples needs an ultra-portable form factor as well. i'm not sure if sony own the rights to this "onyx black LCD", but if not apple need to use this, and now.

[AidenShaw]

So the worst thing that will happen with 64-bit is that the size of data will increase in applications where 64-bit integers are useful, and hence processor cache will be used up a little bit more.


Same issue with pointers in the data. They use more cache, and more memory bandwidth as well.

That's why many (or most) programs should and will remain 32-bit. Not only will they avoid the "data bloat", but they will also be able to run on the huge portion of the installed base that does not have G5 systems.

The only programs that will go to 64-bit in the near future are those that can benefit from the increased virtual memory (and almost always they'll need increased real memory as well).

[aswitcher]

And these in Dollars would be:

15": $2099
15": $2399 (remember this is my more logical price I'm converting)
17": $2949 (or even $2899)

(I took 19.6% tax off of French price, then used xe.com to convert, then rounded down to the nearest $50 to account for Apple International Tax)

The current prices are $1999, $2599 and $2999 - I don't see Apple wanting to lose that $1999 pricepoint either for the 15" which gives you an idea about how bad Apple International Tax is. Note that the current PBs have a 25% processor speed difference between the 15" CD and the 15" SD which is apparently gone with the new revisions too.


Please remember that foreign prices are hardly US+local taxes. In Australia there is roughly a 15%-36% markup on machines (of which GST would form part).

So I am vaguely hopeful that if I am only going to get a G4 this year and its not really that much different from the one available in Sept 03, at least it will be cheaper and almost all the bugs will be gone...

[aswitcher]

Well as someone who is looking to buy his first powerbook, the thing that shocked me most when looking at them was how much better the new sony viao onxy LCD screens look compared with almost anything available on any other platform. i think apples needs an ultra-portable form factor as well. i'm not sure if sony own the rights to this "onyx black LCD", but if not apple need to use this, and now.


Yeah the Apple screen resolutions are somewhat dated compared to the high end PC laptop market. Its a point of issue for a few of us who are looking at buying. If the new rev rumoured for next week had a screen resolution bump I would be very happy. With Digitial photography and video, a larger desktop is a very good thing.

[goof_ball]

dont expect to have G5 pbooks in hand til at least january '05.

It'd be nice to see them out for the Xmas rush, but I have a feeling they will come out early next year too.

Lets hope I'm wrong.

[Photorun]

Perfectly? No. Although I have to say Warcraft III runs pretty well even on my 800 MHz PowerBook (Radeon 7500) at 1280x854. And for some games, a G4 'Book will never get it done. Halo, for example, can cripple even a dual 2.0 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 when you crank up the settings.

Not true, if you turn down the lens flare in Halo (which you cannot, absolutely cannot tell the difference but for some reason it's processor intensive, I've seen this time and time again, no difference) you can max all settings on Halo on max on a G5 1.8 DP with 9600 at 1680 X 1050 on a 20" CD, no problems. My friend has a 17 inch PB with a 1.25 G4 and it plays Halo and UT2K4 okay on max, but just about flawlessly if you turn down the settings just a smidge. If that one rumor of the 128 card being available for a PB that's coming out Monday is true, should be able to run Halo or UT2K4 with no problems. The other games are cakewalk to run already so I didn't mention them.

[Snowy_River]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

C'mon Apple! Throw us a better bone here, will ya? And IBM, where is this new portable chip??? What's going on!

Just imagine: iBook, 1.6GHz 750vx, 1 gig ram, $1400 tops...mmmmm

I'm not sure that chip was ever anything other than hearsay and educated guesses. I think that it makes sense, but whether Apple and IBM want to pursue it or not is a bigger question.

We can hope that this is still somewhere in the pipeline...

[Snowy_River]

What I've always found interesting is if you go to the Apple store and try to match up the combo drive 15" and the superdrive 15". Make everything the same, same HD, both with a superdrive, etc. The only things they have that you can't make the same are the one that started out as a superdrive has a backlight on its keyboard and a faster processor (1.25 instead of 1 GHz). Price difference (this is with a student discount on BOTH items)? $73. The difference in cost to get a keyboard with a backlight and a processor that's 25% faster is $73. And this is for a machine that costs roughly a couple thousand.

Yes, but you're also paying a customization cost on the slower model. So, your cost comparison is just a little off....

[Photorun]

Snowy, If I could offer more than I have, I would. It's immaterial to me whether you believe me or not. But I wouldn't suggest betting against my earlier statements on any major purchase decisions.

elo

I've noted your post (archived it) and if you're wrong you have to eat a heaping pile of your excriment before year end, that's on top of you looking like a total arse.

[areyouwishing]

I have a RevB 12" 1ghz. I love it but I would change a few things...

1. Bus Speed
2. Hard Drive Speed

I am even starting to think that OS X (Panther) is really bloated graphically, I have a 1ghz (133 bus) Pentium 3 Desktop at home and it runs circles around my Laptop in UI speed. I understand that there are performance handicaps when you are running a laptop, but I even get lag some times when Im typing in a form in a browser (safari, IE). This shouldn't happen AT ALL on a laptop, Its not caused by the processor speed, and It's not caused by the bus speed, its not RAM (i have more RAM in my laptop, and its DDR, not that it matters) the only difference between the 2 computers spec wise is that I am running a better video card on the desktop and a faster hard drive. I guess you pay the price to have Quartz Extreme :(

I don't know, some times i just get frustrated with what apple does with their business, be it software or hardware.

[iLilana]

believe it when I see it... aaaand G5 PB's would be a nice addition. It could make them top end best you can buy laptops.

maybe

[goof_ball]

I even get lag some times when Im typing in a form in a browser (safari, IE). This shouldn't happen AT ALL on a laptop,

It sound like something is wrong. A RevB 12" 1ghz laptop should not be doing that while running 10.3.

[sebaz]

could be the spell checker, i know that my rev. a 12" powerbook cant keep up when im typing at times, it gets worse when you have animated .gif smileys

[Ja Di ksw]

Yes, but you're also paying a customization cost on the slower model. So, your cost comparison is just a little off....

customization cost? Where is that, I went all the way through to where I just had to enter my password and click a button, and it would be mine. The price never increased or mentioned a customization cost

[joelypolly]

Well that is what I do imagine will happen yes a decrease is speed overall.

Well that won't happen. it will only run faster with 64 bit os. Think of a 64 bit chip that is running "non native" when its running 32 bit programs.

[Compufix]

Quote:
Own a crappy Dell Dimension 8200 with Winblows XP - biggest mistake of my life

I have both a Dell Precision Laptop, as well as a 17" PowerBook and several other ibooks...My Dell is almost impossible to use outdoors as the screen gets washed out from the sun....my Powerbook has a terrific screen that I can use even in bright light, and the lit keyboard is fantastic at night.

My only complaint is that I love one feature that my Dell has that my Powerbook does not...and that is a dock. I take my Dell home as well as it is my main Windows machine at work, as well as I have a G4 Tower at my desk that I use a KVM with.....if only Apple would MAKE A DAMN DOCKABLE LAPTOP then I would be even happier with my PowerBook...and no...the Bookendz is not the answer....they have their place...but not as a REAL dock. I have several co-workers that would use a PowerBook as a desktop machine if a dock was available....and I mean a real docking station...like the old DuoDock.

Other than that, I have been VERY happy with my Apple laptops (of all flavors) and only wish more enterprise vendors would start making OSX version of their software...I use MS RDC client a lot when I have to, and VPC (only when I HAVE to) but sometime you need a real Windows machine for a given application....It is nice to see some Companies starting to port their wares over...

[hellocody]

I was thinking of selling my 17" Rev A powerbook and switching to the 12", since I have a permanent residence now... and would rather have the large screen at my house. I wish I posted it on eBay before these new ones came out ... kinda of late now. How much do you think the Rev As are going to be worth after Rev Cs comes out:confused:

[thatwendigo]

Y'know what I'd like? A PB or iB with IBM's updated G-variant, the 750vx.

Remember that? It supposed to be shipping in quantity "end of 3rd quarter". Well, this is the end of Apple's fiscal 3rd quarter is it not?

The 750vx was supposed to be hitting the ground running at abot 1.6 to 2.2 GHz, have a vector unit equivalent to the G5, plus a 400MHz FSB. In other words, it's a G3 with Altivec equivalent, an FSB 2.4x faster than what the G4 will ever have, clocked to begin with at a speed faster than the G4 has ever attained.

What the hell happened to it? We've heard nothing about this chip in aeons, it's seemed like. Forget the G5; I don't need to search terabyte databases on a notebook, fercryinoutloud. I just need a fast, modern 32-bit chip that cosumes low power and can run Panther. The fabled 750vx fits all of these criteria to a giant capitol T.

Don't forget that the 750vx consumed something like 9-11 watts at 2ghz, which would mean you could fit two of them into the same power profile as a single G4 running at a much lower clock. I can't really comment on the heat for an ASIC, since we've never seen a running model, but it seems likely that a 400mhz bus for a lower power chip would also be cooler and lower wattage than one for, say, a G5.

In other words, my dream PowerBook looks something like this (and will never happen):
17" QXGA LCD (up to 2048x1536)
Dual 750vx 1.8-2.2ghz @ 400mhz FSB
512k L2 cache, 1MB L3 cache
Radeon 9700 Mobile 128MB
1GB PC 3200 RAM
80 GB 5400RPM drive
8x Superdrive
Dual-Channel Airport Extreme (send on one frequency, receive on another)
Bluetooth built-in
96w/h battery in two removable units (58w/h each)

Some benefits to this system:
The RAM in the system and graphics card are running at the same frequency, which is fully taken advantage of by the system bus. The drive is pretty speedy for a laptop, and the airport is something I seem to recall being done in a PC system with two wireless cards. It's effectively the same thing as the dual-channel handling of RAM in the G5, running up and down on separate pipes. Also, it's twice the battery of the existing laptop, and I have a hard time believing they couldn't squeeze two into the case for a 17" PowerBook.

[_pb_boi]

I was at the genius bar in Apple Store Soho due to a problem with an AE card I bought - which turned out not to be a problem, of course. Is this their announcement of the new G4 updates?

Anybody who has seen the Soho store recently might recognise the covered up advertising boards below. Dunno what it is, just thought it might be SOMETHING. The picture doesn't give much info as to scene or position because of size constraints - it's right above the genius bars, all the way along.

andy

[AndrewMT]

Well as someone who is looking to buy his first powerbook, the thing that shocked me most when looking at them was how much better the new sony viao onxy LCD screens look compared with almost anything available on any other platform. i think apples needs an ultra-portable form factor as well. i'm not sure if sony own the rights to this "onyx black LCD", but if not apple need to use this, and now.

Don't forget about Sony's x-brite technology too. If you have different LCD screens on display, your eye will be drawn to the x-brite first. I don't see any reason why Apple can't just use Sony screens in their laptops.

I'm ready to buy the "new model" of the 12" ibook or the "revised" 12" powerbook if they can compete with the Sony TR3 sub-notebooks. The only way this could happen is if they ran on a 750vx. It probably won't happen and I'll end up buying a peecee.

[invaLPsion]

They state that the iBooks will be from 1.0 to 1.25 or 1.33, and the powerbooks from 1.25 or 1.33 to 1.5. All of the powerbooks will have 512 ram standard.

They also state that the likely GPU for the higher end models is the Nvidia 5700 mobility.

Sounds good to me....

[AppleJustWorks]

I was at the genius bar in Apple Store Soho due to a problem with an AE card I bought - which turned out not to be a problem, of course. Is this their announcement of the new G4 updates?

Anybody who has seen the Soho store recently might recognise the covered up advertising boards below. Dunno what it is, just thought it might be SOMETHING. The picture doesn't give much info as to scene or position because of size constraints - it's right above the genius bars, all the way along.

andy


I thought there were Plasma Televisions above the Genious Bars.....Well there are in my Apple Store! :D

[Snowy_River]

I have a RevB 12" 1ghz. I love it but I would change a few things...

1. Bus Speed
2. Hard Drive Speed

I am even starting to think that OS X (Panther) is really bloated graphically, I have a 1ghz (133 bus) Pentium 3 Desktop at home and it runs circles around my Laptop in UI speed. I understand that there are performance handicaps when you are running a laptop, but I even get lag some times when Im typing in a form in a browser (safari, IE). This shouldn't happen AT ALL on a laptop, Its not caused by the processor speed, and It's not caused by the bus speed, its not RAM (i have more RAM in my laptop, and its DDR, not that it matters) the only difference between the 2 computers spec wise is that I am running a better video card on the desktop and a faster hard drive. I guess you pay the price to have Quartz Extreme :(

I don't know, some times i just get frustrated with what apple does with their business, be it software or hardware.

My fiancee has a 2GHz P4 Dell running WinXP HE. When comparing the UI speed of this machine with my 12"G4 running Panther, I've found that they are easily on a par with each other, and frequently my Mac is often faster. I'd like to know what OS your 1GHz Pentium3 is running, as that does make a difference.

[Snowy_River]

customization cost? Where is that, I went all the way through to where I just had to enter my password and click a button, and it would be mine. The price never increased or mentioned a customization cost

When you change the optical drive, or the hard drive, or whatever, the cost that you're paying is not just the cost of the extra hardware. Apple has to pay someone to customize your machine for you. Of course, it's not shown on your invoice as a 'customization cost'. This cost is imbedded in what Apple charges you for the hardware that you change.

[Snowy_River]

I have both a Dell Precision Laptop, as well as a 17" PowerBook and several other ibooks...My Dell is almost impossible to use outdoors as the screen gets washed out from the sun....my Powerbook has a terrific screen that I can use even in bright light, and the lit keyboard is fantastic at night.

My only complaint is that I love one feature that my Dell has that my Powerbook does not...and that is a dock. I take my Dell home as well as it is my main Windows machine at work, as well as I have a G4 Tower at my desk that I use a KVM with.....if only Apple would MAKE A DAMN DOCKABLE LAPTOP then I would be even happier with my PowerBook...and no...the Bookendz is not the answer....they have their place...but not as a REAL dock. I have several co-workers that would use a PowerBook as a desktop machine if a dock was available....and I mean a real docking station...like the old DuoDock.

Other than that, I have been VERY happy with my Apple laptops (of all flavors) and only wish more enterprise vendors would start making OSX version of their software...I use MS RDC client a lot when I have to, and VPC (only when I HAVE to) but sometime you need a real Windows machine for a given application....It is nice to see some Companies starting to port their wares over...

Hey, if you want, I can design and build a docking station for you. It would be built around a BookEndz dock, but have more of a docking station form factor.

(Honestly, the distinction between a real docking station and the BookEndz is mostly just semantic.)

[aswitcher]

"Croquer la pomme"

M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz $1,099
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz $1,250
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz Unknown

M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz $1,799
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz $2,399
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz $2,499

That would put the new 17" Powerbook at $100 cheaper than the current 15" Superdrive...

See http://croquer.free.fr/

MM

Ok, accepting the french prices and your calcs, what does this mean for Aussies...? (Note, I am going on Apple's CURRENT markup approximations, which I expect to fall even though the dollar is sliding as its higher than waht it was and the emacs came in pretty cheaply)


M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz $1,099 USD -> $1899 AUD so same

M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz $1,250 USD -> ~$2250/99 AUD so a little cheaper

M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz Unknown

M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz Unknown
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz Unknown

M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz $1,799 USD -> $3399 AUD Save $300 (three hundred) @ ~33% current markup

M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz $2,399 USD -> $4399 AUD Save $400 (four hundred) @ ~32% current markup

M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz $2,499 USD -> $4599 AUD Save $900 (nine hundred) @ ~32% current markup


That sharp drop in the 17 is very good news and will definitely move models here I would think... $300 for 1.8" more plus hopefully a few other bits is not bad.

EDIT

If the 15 super and 17 came in at a 20% markup (a little higher than the emacs weighing 20kgs came in at) then we can expect prices like

15" super $3999 a drop of $800 not $400

17" $4199 a drop of $1300 not $900

I actually think this is pretty reasonable given that we aren't geting much more from what we got 7 months (sept 03) even 16 months (jan 03) ago...

Let's see if Apple Australia see it that way should the US figures here be right.

[_pb_boi]

I thought there were Plasma Televisions above the Genious Bars.....Well there are in my Apple Sto

Well, having never seen the store before the paper covered whatever is up there, I can't say for certain. I know that there are 23in screens - or are they 20in? I can't remember - on either side of the bars showing wait times and quick tips. I can't see them being plasma screens, though - why would they cover them in paper :-D

andy

[Chillout]

Thanks for all the help, guys. You've been very helpful with your advice.

After reading all the posts in this thread (and some others), I've decided that for what I'm doing, I don't NEED a G5. So if Apple releases new G4 PowerBooks, I'll buy one of those -- whatever the specs -- and load it up with RAM. If, by some freaky miracle, they release a G5 PowerBook instead of a G4, I'm waiting until RevB so they can work the bugs out before I jump in.

Which means I actually hope they release beefed up G4 PowerBooks instead of G5, which isn't a popular thing to be praying for around here....

And thanks again to everyone for checking out that site for my dad and for giving me advice on various other aspects of buying a Mac "the right way". It's a big step for me, I had to look up "1 or 2 bounces", that's how much of a newbie I am....

[El Duderino]

if these prices that are floating around about the new mobiles are correct along with the speeds....why would apple charge an extra 600$ for a 15" super drive, you just add it as an option on the combo for 200$, if the combo is going to be 1.42 GHZ than the SD is going to have to be 1.5GHZ, otherwise apple is just not going to sell any of the SD models

[ThomasJefferson]

Wow, methinks the interest in this update is way high. Haven't detected this much anticipation for an update in awhile.

I am really interested to see what features Apple will include in order to sell the last G4 Powerbooks. But, I am interested only a soap-opera kind of way.

While I love the Alu-book looks, I will never buy one. I prefer to put my big $ in a desktop. For travel, keynote etc ... I prefer a basic 12in ibook.

[aswitcher]

They also state that the likely GPU for the higher end models is the Nvidia 5700 mobility.

Sounds good to me....

http://www.macosxrumors.com/
"As for the graphic chip, sources had mentioned the GeForce FX 5700 as a good candidate for the high end models. "

So games geeks, is this 128meg card going to improve the g4pbs game performance significantly? In otherwords, is it going to be worth the extra money if it doesn't come standard?

[law guy]

So I read somewhere, that seemed to be a legitimate source, that Microsoft will put three G5s in the next xbox.

So your telling me apple can't figure out to put one in the powerbook?



I've got to agree with remingtonhill here. I know everyone is so beaten down on the G5 powerbook question to dare to hope. However, the desktop G5 was announced almost a year ago. Since that time, IBM has gone to mass production of a much cooler / energy efficient 90nm chip - as far back as November as I can tell (this is when the news stories started noting shipments of the newer G5). The xServe is actually shipping based on that chip now. Apple has been working with the G5 system components for the desktops and servers for well over a year and has items shipping. I would expect they've been working on the notebook components for that long as well - could it be that they're doing more than waiting for an appropriate chip at this point? Isn't the chip here (hasn't it been here for awhile in large quantities - minus the reduction for the Fishkills production problems?).

Now - recall all of the rumors around January - "it's been half-a-year, the G5 powerbooks will be announced" etc. Now, I know no one likes to appear too green, but I hate it when we all lower the bar for Apple BY NOT EXPECTING what should be here. :)

[aswitcher]

if these prices that are floating around about the new mobiles are correct along with the speeds....why would apple charge an extra 600$ for a 15" super drive, you just add it as an option on the combo for 200$, if the combo is going to be 1.42 GHZ than the SD is going to have to be 1.5GHZ, otherwise apple is just not going to sell any of the SD models

Super is not an upgrade path for the combo is it?

What about a 128 meg gpu as standard on the sd model?

What about faster hd as standard?

[~Shard~]

I was at the genius bar in Apple Store Soho due to a problem with an AE card I bought - which turned out not to be a problem, of course. Is this their announcement of the new G4 updates?

Anybody who has seen the Soho store recently might recognise the covered up advertising boards below. Dunno what it is, just thought it might be SOMETHING. The picture doesn't give much info as to scene or position because of size constraints - it's right above the genius bars, all the way along.

andy

I was just in the SoHo store last week myself and was curious what exactly was going on - it looked like they were preparing for something, or at least putting up some new banners. Guess we'll see!

Incidentally, I also walked out of the store with a nice new 20 GB iPod + a car adaptor - damn, that's a dangerous store... ;) :cool:

[El Duderino]

Super is not an upgrade path for the combo is it?

What about a 128 meg gpu as standard on the sd model?

What about faster hd as standard?
i was just doing a mock build on the combo and adding the SD is a $200 upgrade, as for your other points, i dont think a GPU and a faster HD is worth 600$, but thats just me

[El Duderino]

as far as the whole G5 PB thing goes, i can accept that there is a slim chance that it's going to happen. but i seem to recal the fact that apple has called in for that meeting for all of its employes to discuss the new upgrades. i know apple is definatly differant from Best Buy, but i know that i dont have to come in for a meeting everytime i get a new camcorder. I simply just dont seem to find the need for meeting where apple has to pay all their employes to be there when there is just a speed bump or a new GPU...it could happen

[actionslacks]

I was at the genius bar in Apple Store Soho due to a problem with an AE card I bought - which turned out not to be a problem, of course. Is this their announcement of the new G4 updates?

Anybody who has seen the Soho store recently might recognise the covered up advertising boards below. Dunno what it is, just thought it might be SOMETHING. The picture doesn't give much info as to scene or position because of size constraints - it's right above the genius bars, all the way along.

andy

I remember reading a rumor about new high end Displays awhile back that mentioned them being installed in Apple stores above the Genius Bar. Anyone else remember that? Maybe this has something to do with it.

[aswitcher]

i was just doing a mock build on the combo and adding the SD is a $200 upgrade, as for your other points, i dont think a GPU and a faster HD is worth 600$, but thats just me

Just speculation on my part, trying to figure it out.

I think your right, it seems excessive, and so I figure there must be some things behind it like additional hardware.