Palm Pre Continues to Generate Interest at CTIA Mobile

[ArtursBoy]

What exactly would they settle? You can pretty much file a suit for any amount of money you want, as the dust of negotiations settled it'd just be a wash anyways and all they will have accomplished is putting their legal teams' children and grandchildren through Harvard.

Or maybe they'd settle for 8% of their respective profits for device sales:

Palm: "OK, we agree to 8% of the profits from 15 million iPhone sales"

Apple: "Ok, but only if we get 8% of the profits from 0 Pre sales!"

Most, if not all trials are encouraged to be "settled" outside a courtroom. Some sort of licensing agreement maybe? or like you mentioned, percentage from profits. Remember when RIM "settled" their patent lawsuit by paying $450m to resolve all litigations?

[Tussen69]

LETS LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS...

The Wast mayority of the team behind Palm-Pre used to work at a surtain Coppertino Company.

The NEW dev team at Palm basicly riped the code from there old employe from one company to anouther . Now any inteligent person knows that by doing so you are violating both contracts, NDA and the law ...

Apple has patents but they cant go to court befoure the Palm is Released .


I just cant wait until the release of the Palm Pre. I dont want the products . I just want to see what Apple will do....

[Tussen69]

Most, if not all trials are encouraged to be "settled" outside a courtroom. Some sort of licensing agreement maybe? or like you mentioned, percentage from profits. Remember when RIM "settled" their patent lawsuit by paying $450m to resolve all litigations?

naahhh . The release of the Palm Pre will surtain be the end of Palm. Apple wont wing it . They will win it ..

[knightlie]

NO SH**T!! i thought the same thing! this is a total mockup, not at all the real thing in action, they made a video and put voice over to it. not nearly the same as an 'operating system in action'.

You mean in exactly the same way that Apple does with it's demonstrably misleading iPhone ads? :rolleyes:


LETS LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS...

The Wast mayority of the team behind Palm-Pre used to work at a surtain Coppertino Company.

The NEW dev team at Palm basicly riped the code from there old employe from one company to anouther . Now any inteligent person knows that by doing so you are violating both contracts, NDA and the law ...

That's a pretty serious allegation you made there. Have any proof, or did you pull it out of your *rse?

[Tussen69]

I like the Pre. Or at least what Palm has shown off it.

The problem is that they have not let anyone use a single working device. In real life demos, its Palm Executives who are doing the demo'ing (not reviewers) who are showing a limited subset of what it is capable of (and what it MUST be able to do before release).

About the only 2 apps that have been demoed (and not true demos either) are Fandango and Pandora.

The Pre has a long way to go before release. Apple will have 3.0 out, and a roadmap for 4.0 out before that even happens.

Thats right in some point . iPhone is surtain "5 years" ahead of whats on any outher mobile phone" but then again the multi-touch is Apples.

[addicted44]

Why can't Fandango create as integrated an app as shown here?

Apple allows all sorts of hooks into the calendar, mail, itunes (they could even do some genius kinda stuff to suggest a movie!) that would be more than sufficient for the integration shown here...

The 2 issues I have with the iphone currently are:

1) Lack of background apps. I agree this is a "hardware not good enough" issue that will be solved soon. In fact, it requires more effort for them to prevent background apps, than it would for them to allow it!

2) Poor notifications. This is a longer term worry of mine. Don't forget that this issue exists in Mac OS X too. There are only 2 types of notifications in the default Mac apps. 1) Dock Labels and 2) Dialog boxes (Alerts by iCal, Finder - This application was downloaded from a webpage, etc). Apple has done nothing to improve the state of notifications on the mac.

Unfortunately, they have already added both these styles of notifications to the iphone. What if they decide this is good enough (like they did on the mac?). The Pre notifications sliding at the bottom are really very good.

On the other hand, the notifications on the mac are "good enough". Also, 3rd parties have more than filled in (Growl) so maybe Apple did not feel the need to step in any further there. Because of the lack of screen space (and therefore lack of a constant Dock) these notification strategies are obviously not good enough for the iphone, which might force Apple's hand to improve it (and might even spill over to the mac!).

[addicted44]

You mean in exactly the same way that Apple does with it's demonstrably misleading iPhone ads? :rolleyes:

Come on/ You've gotta be smarter than that. Yeah, Apple's ads use mockups, but if you want to try the real thing, you just drive down to the closest Apple store (or ask a friend. At least 1 friend of yours is bound to own an iphone) and try the real thing.

Where is the store that is currently demoing Palm Pre's?

I think the point about the mock-up is that the Pre is far from finished. The June-July goal is probably highly unrealistic, since there have been no reports of anyone, other than Palm execs, having actually used the Pre (I apologize if I missed some, but I haven't seen any).

[apolloa]

LETS LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS...

The Wast mayority of the team behind Palm-Pre used to work at a surtain Coppertino Company.

The NEW dev team at Palm basicly riped the code from there old employe from one company to anouther . Now any inteligent person knows that by doing so you are violating both contracts, NDA and the law ...

Apple has patents but they cant go to court befoure the Palm is Released .


I just cant wait until the release of the Palm Pre. I dont want the products . I just want to see what Apple will do....

LOL hahaha, er no. The Palm uses a totally different and new OS, it hasn't "Ripped" the iPhones code, and Palm have already stated, and people have backed them up, that if Apple takes them to court they can counter sue Apple to the wall as it has SO many patents Apple has breached you won't believe it. Remember just how long Palm has been making mobile devices for eh :)
So don't expect to see them in court any time soon, or Apple to win anything.
Te Palm Pre will be my next phone, sim free at launch, cheaper then an iPhone oh yes, and no pathetic controls of the apps.

Oh and can ANYONE of you tell me exactly when did Apple let journalists play around with the BETA iPhone BEFORE it was launched By Steve? No? Hmm, Palm must be stupid eh?? Are we going to see Apple's new 2009 iPhone on video and photo's in flesh being demonstrated BEFORE it's launched?

[LiveForever]

LETS LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS...

The Wast mayority of the team behind Palm-Pre used to work at a surtain Coppertino Company.

The NEW dev team at Palm basicly riped the code from there old employe from one company to anouther . Now any inteligent person knows that by doing so you are violating both contracts, NDA and the law ...

Apple has patents but they cant go to court befoure the Palm is Released .


I just cant wait until the release of the Palm Pre. I dont want the products . I just want to see what Apple will do....

Exactly, well said and this is the real issue. The patent infringements are second order (but real nevertheless) compared to this steadily smoking gun.

I'll tell you exactly what apple will do.

1) Sue Palm to the brink of extinction
2) Settle out of court and lisence the technology/ideas so the palm pre is priced out of the market

Either way Palm will loose. If you have Palm shares sell them now.

[apolloa]

QFT

And to put an emphasis on that: I personally will have a great choice of products in August, when I definitely get a new mobile handset. I just hope, that Apple's answer will eliminate all those bugging glitches, the iPhone currently has for me (which, btw, are minor - and price of the contract is a growing issue, when the competing products stack up so well - think Pre, think Omnia HD, think N97, think Idou).

S@&T ME SOMEONE WHO LIVES OUTSIDE APPLE AND POSTS HERE!!! SOMEONE WHO REALISES A LIFE OUTSIDE THE "JESUS" PHONE!!

Well done sir, you are a rare thing on this forum. Most people don't seem to have ever heard of Nokia or Sony Ericcson....

And yeap, you and me the consumers will be the ones wining anything this summer!

[j26]

:confused::rolleyes:
Yes but can it sync ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts back and forth on a Mac? No! Only Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items. So you call that real sync up?.. Sorry the iPhone does way more then that and do it on both windows and Mac..
Then you say...
Sorry I am not wrong because you can only sync Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items.. That to me is not syncing.. Ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts and so on is real syncing then that crap you call syncing.. No other phone like the iPhone can be sync up like the iPhone can do on both Windows and Mac..

You're only making yourself look silly now - to make it easy for you, here's a screenshot taken from here (http://europe.nokia.com/A4423134) (all about Nokia Multimedia Transfer which begins syncing automatically as soon as you connect the phone via usb). You really should do your research before you post.

As regards the rest;

You buy ringtones? I just use any tune in my library that I choose.
Bookmarks? - done through Nokia Multimedia Transfer
E-Mail accounts? - I use IMAP as it's the easiest way to keep several machines in sync.

[daneoni]

Anyone else find the voice a little too....'obvious'. On another note, i am very much excited for this phone

[LiveForever]

So don't expect to see them in court any time soon, or Apple to win anything.
Te Palm Pre will be my next phone, sim free at launch, cheaper then an iPhone oh yes, and no pathetic controls of the apps.


You want a bet???

You sound quite emotional about it.

Honestly, I don't care if apple wins or not. Yes I have an iphone but this pre does look interesting but I have no axe to grind.
But look at the facts and being objective, it does not look good for palm.

look at these I found from a few seconds googiling
palm hires ex apple designer puts iphone in its sights (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/09/palm-hires-ex-apple-designer-puts-iphone-in-its-sights/)


Palm gets A N O T H E R E X A P P L E guy to run its developer community (http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/06/palm-gets-another-ex-apple-guy-to-run-its-developer-community/)

Palm hires ex-Apple guy as manger of its Palm Pre developer community (http://www.edibleapple.com/palm-hires-ex-apple-guy-as-manger-of-its-palm-pre-developer-community/)

I reallly didn't think Palm were this stupid to be making press releases out of this stuff too.

Insane, totally insane.

Palm will be history this time next year.

[ieko]

Here's (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/04/01/pandora-amazon-other-third-party-apps-demoed-on-palm-pre/) an engadget video of the Pre in action (the best part is pandora running in the background with notifications bar integration). And some stuff from CES here (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-pre-in-depth-impressions-video-and-huge-hands-on-gallery/).

So here's why I'm excited about the Pre:
1) True multi-tasking, I have gotten so annoyed with constantly going in and out of the home screen on the iPhone let alone not being able to listen to internet radio while browsing the web or reading e-mail.

2) Notifications, the notifications system on the iPhone is awful. They're basically pop-ups and I can't even imagine how terrible it'll be when 3.0 comes out and you got all these apps using push notifications. It'll be like browsing the internet 5 years ago when any pages you went to had pop-ups everywhere! Yeah, that sounds like a great experience!

3) The keyboard, look I liked the iPhone virtual keyboard but then I realized I always have to look at this thing if I want to do anything. I miss dialing a number while driving or hell changing a song while not looking (think iPod classic). For those of you who say the iPhone/iPod Touch music player is great I ask, in what way? It's not intuitive, you can't change songs without looking and really it's just a real all around pain to use.

4) App development, I'm really excited about making an application for this phone. It uses a common language and from what I've seen of the SDK so far it looks really easy to develop for. Hell, you can even develop on Linux, OS X, and Windows!

5) Non-proprietary connector! It uses USB! I can't tell you how tired I am of that stupid dock connector wearing out on my iPod's and my iPhone. Not to mention recently with the cables fraying. Let alone the price, forget it! I'm not dealing with that anymore.

6) Removable battery, I'm a heavy user. I kill my iPhone battery in roughly 3 hours and it's not even jailbroken. No, there's nothing wrong with the battery, I just enjoy streaming radio.

7) 2nd largest 3G network, regardless of how coverage is in your area the fact is that Spring has the 2nd largest 3G network. The largest being Verizon, I'll take my chances with Sprint over AT&T any day!

I loved my iPhone, I broke it recently and I do miss it. But I don't think I'll buy another one because the Pre looks to have everything I want out of a phone, I mean I literally can't think of anything else I'd want. My only wish is that the phone would be on Verizon, but that's okay I need a phone and so I'll go to Sprint until Verizon gets it.

As for this being an iPhone competitor, yeah I think it is because I don't think I've ever seen so many news stories about a non-apple device on this site ever before.

[mdriftmeyer]

Apple is addressing multi-tasking and battery performance on present systems, not on their upcoming models.

[Padraig]

I like the Pre. Or at least what Palm has shown off it.

The problem is that they have not let anyone use a single working device. In real life demos, its Palm Executives who are doing the demo'ing (not reviewers) who are showing a limited subset of what it is capable of (and what it MUST be able to do before release).



This is incorrect. They let the editor of Engadget bring one on Fallon not so long ago.

[Popeye206]

First of all... this is definitely a well edited and designed demo video. Note... you're not seeing a real time demo. This is all just video magic. How you you type? I never saw a keyboard?

Anyway... with that said... the challenge for competitors is how do they catch up to Apple. What Apple has done is incredible with the iPhone as a solid and fluid product that's just going to keep getting better. And... they have the worlds largest distribution network. iTunes. This is the killer part that others will have a tough time replicating that Apple is miles ahead.

Let's see... every iPhone user can use one interface to manage all their own data, download millions of songs, video's and TV shows... and there are thousands of Applications already written for the iPhone... Hummm... that's going to be hard to beat or even match for Palm or anyone else for that matter.

Anyway... being a technology nut... it will be nice to see this phone in action. I sure hope it's better than the other Palm phones that we're suppose to be iPhone killers! :)

[Popeye206]

As for this being an iPhone competitor, yeah I think it is because I don't think I've ever seen so many news stories about a non-apple device on this site ever before.

Dude... sorry to burst your bubble... but this site posts about many products that are related too, or possible alternatives to Apple devices. Discussions on Android dominated this site for weeks when it was announced.... which, at that time, everyone was screaming iPhone killer! This site is about technology... focused around Apple... but still, many things get covered and discussed. So this is no indication that this will kill the iPhone.

Honestly... I think the Pre will do well for Palm... but it's not going to make a dent in iPhone sales.

[Mackan]

LETS LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS...

The Wast mayority of the team behind Palm-Pre used to work at a surtain Coppertino Company.

The NEW dev team at Palm basicly riped the code from there old employe from one company to anouther . Now any inteligent person knows that by doing so you are violating both contracts, NDA and the law ...

Apple has patents but they cant go to court befoure the Palm is Released .


I just cant wait until the release of the Palm Pre. I dont want the products . I just want to see what Apple will do....

Clueless fanboys like you are a shame to see.

[Popeye206]

Come on/ You've gotta be smarter than that. Yeah, Apple's ads use mockups, but if you want to try the real thing, you just drive down to the closest Apple store (or ask a friend. At least 1 friend of yours is bound to own an iphone) and try the real thing.

My friend... Just to clarify... the iPhone Ads are recorded in realtime. I was reading somewhere in the many magazines I skim for interesting articles that this is one of the requirements for the Ads... that they must be real. Watch them... remember... you actually see fingers moving the applications. :)

You are right about the Pre video... it's too early to show the real thing, so they've released a controlled video.

[ieko]

Dude... sorry to burst your bubble... but this site posts about many products that are related too, or possible alternatives to Apple devices. Discussions on Android dominated this site for weeks when it was announced.... which, at that time, everyone was screaming iPhone killer! This site is about technology... focused around Apple... but still, many things get covered and discussed. So this is no indication that this will kill the iPhone.

Honestly... I think the Pre will do well for Palm... but it's not going to make a dent in iPhone sales.
I'm aware of that, and maybe it's true that Android got the same amount of attention, I'm not sure. I feel that the Pre seems to be getting a lot more attention than anything else non-apple gets.

[Padraig]

My friend... Just to clarify... the iPhone Ads are recorded in realtime. I was reading somewhere in the many magazines I skim for interesting articles that this is one of the requirements for the Ads... that they must be real. Watch them... remember... you actually see fingers moving the applications. :)

You are right about the Pre video... it's too early to show the real thing, so they've released a controlled video.


You mean the same ads that had Apple rapped on the knuckles by the British Advertising Standards Authority for being misleading. The same ads now have to state that steps have been removed and sequences shortened.

[dwright1974]

My friend... Just to clarify... the iPhone Ads are recorded in realtime. I was reading somewhere in the many magazines I skim for interesting articles that this is one of the requirements for the Ads... that they must be real. Watch them... remember... you actually see fingers moving the applications. :)

You are right about the Pre video... it's too early to show the real thing, so they've released a controlled video.

Er, not exactly true (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7749435.stm) :)

And I know you're specifically talking about 'finger-use' but it highlights the point they most certainly aren't shot in real time.

Not trying to iPhone Bash, merely put some perspective on the Pre mockups.

EDIT: Beaten by Padraig(sp) cause I was looking for the BBC News article about it!
- D

[gnasher729]

You mean the same ads that had Apple rapped on the knuckles by the British Advertising Standards Authority for being misleading. The same ads now have to state that steps have been removed and sequences shortened.

Well, the same British Advertising Standards Authority would also rap you on the knuckles for being misleading. You are creating the false impression that Apple intentionally tried to dupe its audience when in reality they just shortened the sequence of steps somehow. By not mentioning this fact, you are misleading the public.

[kdarling]

1) Apple has no patent on multi-touch or swiping. They didn't invent those.

2) Some states disallow contracts that prevent a person from working even at directly competing firms. Heck, Apple hired away a dozen Xerox employees to help create their first GUI.

3) Most important of all: there's no need for anything to be an "iPhone killer." Or RIM killer. The iPhone hasn't killed RIM or Microsoft, and never will. Nor will the others kill the iPhone.

There's plenty of market for all, and most makers are selling more and more devices every year... not less.

[dwright1974]

Well, the same British Advertising Standards Authority would also rap you on the knuckles for being misleading. You are creating the false impression that Apple intentionally tried to dupe its audience when in reality they just shortened the sequence of steps somehow. By not mentioning this fact, you are misleading the public.

Now without wishing to start a bun-fight, c'mon, get real!

The point of the post, (and my reply just after), was to highlight the fact that Apple do not film their ads in real time, they use a mock-upesque scenario to advertise their products, just like Palm are doing with the unreleased Pre. Granted, Palm's is more mock-up than Apple's however some people are speaking on here like they should be burned at the stake for using these practices.

At no point, in either our replies did we point THAT finger!!

Take a deep breath and carry on with your day.

- D


- D

[Padraig]

Well, the same British Advertising Standards Authority would also rap you on the knuckles for being misleading. You are creating the false impression that Apple intentionally tried to dupe its audience when in reality they just shortened the sequence of steps somehow. By not mentioning this fact, you are misleading the public.

How so?

[Digitalclips]

You want a bet???

You sound quite emotional about it.

Honestly, I don't care if apple wins or not. Yes I have an iphone but this pre does look interesting but I have no axe to grind.
But look at the facts and being objective, it does not look good for palm.

look at these I found from a few seconds googiling
palm hires ex apple designer puts iphone in its sights (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/09/palm-hires-ex-apple-designer-puts-iphone-in-its-sights/)


Palm gets A N O T H E R E X A P P L E guy to run its developer community (http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/06/palm-gets-another-ex-apple-guy-to-run-its-developer-community/)

Palm hires ex-Apple guy as manger of its Palm Pre developer community (http://www.edibleapple.com/palm-hires-ex-apple-guy-as-manger-of-its-palm-pre-developer-community/)

I reallly didn't think Palm were this stupid to be making press releases out of this stuff too.

Insane, totally insane.

Palm will be history this time next year.

I doubt Apple let the best and brightest staff go either ...

[Digitalclips]

1) Apple has no patent on multi-touch or swiping. They didn't invent those.

2) Some states disallow contracts that prevent a person from working even at directly competing firms. Heck, Apple hired away a dozen Xerox employees to help create their first GUI.

3) Most important of all: there's no need for anything to be an "iPhone killer." Or RIM killer. The iPhone hasn't killed RIM or Microsoft, and never will. Nor will the others kill the iPhone.

There's plenty of market for all, and most makers are selling more and more devices every year... not less.

Just one small point, is it not the case that Xerox willingly turned over SmallTalk development to Apple as they lost interest in it? Somewhat of a difference surely when considering the legal implications of possible legal infringements.

[kdarling]

Just one small point, is it not the case that Xerox willingly turned over SmallTalk development to Apple as they lost interest in it? Somewhat of a difference surely when considering the legal implications of possible legal infringements.

Yes, PARC exchanged the information for Apple stock, I believe. That agreement wouldn't cover Apple luring away employees, of course. Apple offered more money and a chance to see their ideas put into mass-marketed devices.

Silicon Valley's very foundations are based on employees leaving a company and starting a new one, with ideas that the original company failed to take up on.

Pertinent example: Steve Jobs and NeXT. He stole some main Apple employees to help start the new company. Apple sued NeXT, but the lawsuit faded away partly because all it did was give media attention to NeXT. Imagine the free publicity if Apple sued Palm, claiming its best inventors and unused ideas were there.

[michael.lauden]

does this seem kind of... idk... lame to anyone else?

[apolloa]

You want a bet???

You sound quite emotional about it.

Honestly, I don't care if apple wins or not. Yes I have an iphone but this pre does look interesting but I have no axe to grind.
But look at the facts and being objective, it does not look good for palm.

look at these I found from a few seconds googiling
palm hires ex apple designer puts iphone in its sights (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/09/palm-hires-ex-apple-designer-puts-iphone-in-its-sights/)


Palm gets A N O T H E R E X A P P L E guy to run its developer community (http://venturebeat.com/2009/02/06/palm-gets-another-ex-apple-guy-to-run-its-developer-community/)

Palm hires ex-Apple guy as manger of its Palm Pre developer community (http://www.edibleapple.com/palm-hires-ex-apple-guy-as-manger-of-its-palm-pre-developer-community/)

I reallly didn't think Palm were this stupid to be making press releases out of this stuff too.

Insane, totally insane.

Palm will be history this time next year.

I probably sound emotional because I'm sick of people who think Apple invented everything and is untuochable. I'm afraid not, as I already stated, Apple has breached several Palm patents but Palm don't care, yet they will if Apple try's to take them to court. And so what, company's poach ALL the time, it's Apple's tough luck if it can't keep it's employee's, not Palm's for asking them to leave, I mean the staff aren't Apple's property or patents! They are free to work for who ever the hell they want.

And you are so wrong, if YOU looked at the PROPER facts then you would see that Palm is gaining better stock value ever day, more and more and more people are interested every day in the Pre. I am not calling it an iPhone killer but several leading gadget publications are. Everyone is expecting a full on fight and for the Pre to do very well so to say that Palm will be dead next year is simply stating you haven't looked at the facts at all IMO.

[Hawkeye411]

It has a slide out physical keyboard.
I'm not sure if it also has a virtual one.

Ohhh .. I would prefer that over the keyboard on my iPhone. Typing would be a LOT faster.

Thanks!!

[ArtursBoy]

1) Apple has no patent on multi-touch or swiping. They didn't invent those.

2) Some states disallow contracts that prevent a person from working even at directly competing firms. Heck, Apple hired away a dozen Xerox employees to help create their first GUI.

3) Most important of all: there's no need for anything to be an "iPhone killer." Or RIM killer. The iPhone hasn't killed RIM or Microsoft, and never will. Nor will the others kill the iPhone.

There's plenty of market for all, and most makers are selling more and more devices every year... not less.

Is this being ignored?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=multi-touch&s2=multitouch&OS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch&RS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch

http://www.macworld.com/article/138465/2009/01/multitouch_patent.html

Apple certainly does not have ALL patents on multitouch, but they certainly have some, and Apple as well as others believe these patents are being infringed. The patent focuses on how multitouch is implemented, how it works from a technical prespective, not on the idea of multitouch itself (Ex. Microsoft's Surface executes multitouch in a very different way than the iPhone does, yet the general idea of multitouch is still the same).

They may be proven to be wrong, but they are within their right to go forward with something like this. Now you, as well as others, may or may not agree that these patents are being infringed, but to imply that they should not try to defend something which they believe is theirs, and apparently have worked to protect it (hence the patent) is a mistake.

[ArtursBoy]

does this seem kind of... idk... lame to anyone else?

I find this very interesting.

[jayducharme]

does this seem kind of... idk... lame to anyone else?

What amazed me about the Pre ad was how bland the interface looks (sort of like the narrator's voice). It was almost entirely made up of text surrounded by gray blobs. I don't understand the "swoosh" of icons that appears; they look odd and not very "tappable." And the way things minimize doesn't seem to give any idea of where the apps go, nor what background tasks are running.

I agree with earlier posts stating that many different smart phone models can co-exist. For Sprint users, many will probably be happy with the Pre. But I really don't see how different it is from many of the other iPhone wannabes that are currently on the market, other than its carrier.

[trellus]

...but, it is not an iPhone killer, not because it's not a great phone that will be very competitive with the iPhone (as I think it will be), but because there is not an iPhone killer, period: the iPhone is here to stay. It has a huge following, it's uber-hip and cool and, heck, I'd have one, if I didn't have to sell my soul to AT&T (sorry, I don't do unlocked slow-moving iPhone on inferior networks :p) and I wasn't married to a physical keyboard, which I am.

PC World had an article up proclaiming that the Palm Pre will be an iPhone killer and I wish they'd quit making ridiculous statements. On the other hand, I do think it's not hyperbole to say that this is the best new entry into the smartphone market, and as long as the company itself (Palm) can stay afloat, has the best shot of actually sticking around and being a player, unlike the many other so-called iPhone killers which have met with very modest success or none at all.

[trellus]

What amazed me about the Pre ad was how bland the interface looks (sort of like the narrator's voice). It was almost entirely made up of text surrounded by gray blobs.

One person's "bland" is another persons's "clean and uncluttered" (think, Google). I don't dislike the iPhone's interface which I think is pretty hot, but what I have seen from the Pre, I *really* like. I've been waiting for a decent smartphone to replace my aging Treo 755p, and the Pre is it. I particularly like the unobtrusive notifications the Pre has, as it addresses a major annoyance I have about my current Treo and the iPhone as well.

[kdarling]

Is this being ignored? (links deleted)

You're a bit out of touch. No pun intended. :)

The "multitouch patent" that ignorant reporters jumped on, was simply about a particular way of determining scrolling direction. To be specific, it's a way of deciding that you want to scroll in just one direction instead of sliding all around the window. Pretty much only used in Safari.

The later touch patent involves detecting force, and is not an issue.

Apple certainly does not have ALL patents on multitouch, but they certainly have some, and Apple as well as others believe these patents are being infringed.

They don't have any that matter in this case.

Apple has never said they thought they were being infringed. Nor has Palm. Bloggers who live off reader counts made up the whole fake brouhaha.

[ArtursBoy]

You're a bit out of touch. No pun intended. :)

Haha none taken, and thanks for the extra info.

[QCassidy352]

In my opinion:

The Pre has 2 major advantage over the iphone:
- Multitasking

There are two major areas in which reasonable people could disagree over wether the Pre or the iphone is superior:
- Carrier (I'll take AT&T over Sprint any day, but I know some will disagree)
- Keyboard (again, I prefer virtual to physical, and I say that as the owner of both an iphone and a bb curve, but I know some disagree)

The iphone has 3 major advantages over the pre:
- one-touch sync with all of the information on my computer
- the app store
- capacity (up to 16 GB, as opposed to 8 on the Pre, and probably up to 32 in a couple of months)

For me, the app store is the trump card here. I'm not leaving the iphone unless and until someone else has an app store that gives me even close to the quality, quantity, and ease of use that I get with the iphone.

Probably half of what I use my iphone for comes from 3rd party apps. Any phone that can't give me equivalent apps to duplicate that functionality doesn't interest me.

[apolloa]

In my opinion:

The Pre has 2 major advantage over the iphone:
- Multitasking

There are two major areas in which reasonable people could disagree over wether the Pre or the iphone is superior:
- Carrier (I'll take AT&T over Sprint any day, but I know some will disagree)
- Keyboard (again, I prefer virtual to physical, and I say that as the owner of both an iphone and a bb curve, but I know some disagree)

The iphone has 3 major advantages over the pre:
- one-touch sync with all of the information on my computer
- the app store
- capacity (up to 16 GB, as opposed to 8 on the Pre, and probably up to 32 in a couple of months)

For me, the app store is the trump card here. I'm not leaving the iphone unless and until someone else has an app store that gives me even close to the quality, quantity, and ease of use that I get with the iphone.

Probably half of what I use my iphone for comes from 3rd party apps. Any phone that can't give me equivalent apps to duplicate that functionality doesn't interest me.

Ah, now, the memory point I wanted to pick up on. Do you think that as it has 8GB installed, it will actually undercut the iPhones price? 8GB i smore then enough for me as I have an iPod for music thanks, but I think it will allow Palm to price it lower?

[RaZaK]

Considering that battery life seems to be one of Apple's biggest arguments against bg processes in favor of Push Notify, I'd be most interested to see how the battery life of the Pre holds up with apps open in the background?

The battery life of the G1 appears to be atrocious with the bg processes. My friend downloaded a task killer to make sure all programs are closed on the Android phone to conserve the battery power.

[kdarling]

Ah, now, the memory point I wanted to pick up on.

And me. Palm should've included a MicroSD slot. It makes it very easy to upgrade, especially with prices falling like they are. Would've been a good selling point.

Both Palm and Apple have taken the easy way out. (It's a lot easier to make a mobile OS robust if you don't have to deal with cards being swapped. )

Considering that battery life seems to be one of Apple's biggest arguments against bg processes in favor of Push Notify, I'd be most interested to see how the battery life of the Pre holds up with apps open in the background?

One beauty of the Pre's UI, is that it's utterly simple to see which visual apps are running. Need more speed? Flip to Pandora and flick it out of existence. Anyone can do that.

Don't forget that Apple has background processes as well. iPod, SMS/MMS, email, phone are examples. Yet they cleverly ignore those when they bring up the battery scarecrow. Someone playing music in the iPod app in the background is using up battery, and yet Apple doesn't argue against that.

[wolfbane]

Honestly, I laugh when people think that other smart phones will shake iPhone success. No matter what kind of capabilities a competing product has, it will not affect the common consumers mindset on what phone to purchase. The success of the iPhone was due to it utilizing the family of features that were out there in an easy to use interface before anyone else. Most importantly though, it holds the apple name and the 'prestige' the comes with it. I bet more than half iPhones users only care about this. Us geeks are the outliers, constantly looking for new features etc.

Thank you for reading my rant

I agree! In addition, the thing that most people seem to be missing is that the Pre runs web apps which, if you remember, was exactly what Apple did with the iPhone...and people hated them! The depth of apps which are written in CSS/JS/HTML just can't compare to a true native application.

The upgrade paths that I predict are:

100% Treo > Pre (Evolutionary upgrade)
100% Palm Pilot > Pre (Evolutionary upgrade)
10% Win Mob. > Pre (Shiny factor)
10% Android > Pre (Tired of Beta software)

[libertyforall]

So what is "Pre" supposed to mean or stand for anyhow?

[QCassidy352]

Ah, now, the memory point I wanted to pick up on. Do you think that as it has 8GB installed, it will actually undercut the iPhones price? 8GB i smore then enough for me as I have an iPod for music thanks, but I think it will allow Palm to price it lower?

Nobody knows yet. One rumor said $299 for the Pre, and IMO that would kill them. An iphone that's been out for 9 months sells for the same price with twice the capacity. Just imagine if the Pre is $299 and Apple goes to 16/32 at $200/$300 a couple of months later.

[brsboarder]

who cares, until either the pre or the iphone jump onto verizon, the battle won't be over. First one to do that, will gain a huge market

[Trajectory]

This is not an iPhone killer, it's an iPhone knockoff. And it will be seen as such because Palm mostly copied Apple and did little innovating here.

Also, it's missing one important feature it can never match: iTunes/iPod.

[Mattie Num Nums]

Its sad because the fan boys who cry for Apple to do better or do more don't realize there own ignorance is why Apple could take a piece of dog crap and put an Apple logo on it. The fan boys will defend its perfection until there death bed.

The Palm Pre is a great product however it will be marketed for people who have business needs, not a bunch of kids who want to play Super Monkey Ball and check there Myspace. The Pre will do that but it will also most likely sync 100% with Exchange and provide other business necessities the iPhone cannot.

Also, all the people saying sue Palm, I hate to tell you most of the iPhone was patented by Palm before Apple even released Intel processors.

[GimmeSlack12]

iTunes is, at the core, a database manager - a weak and limited one at that. (If you don't believe that, check your *.itdb file aka "dot iTunes database"). You can't copy smart playlists if you want a new list with only a couple modified rules? ... Anything I use in windows with multiple fields can sort by a minimum of three fields, ascending or descending, in the order you specify.

It's workable once you get used to it, but I was carrying alone fine before it.


And with the Pre you will use what? I mean, I'm sure the Pre will have some kind of media program for Windows, for Mac I suppose as well. But can you anticipate it being better than iTunes?

I'm not saying iTunes organizing program in the world. But c'mon, it isn't pure crap. It does what it says it'll do and doesn't promise to hold your hand on everything. To be honest, I'm not sure what you want more from iTunes? Just more organizing fields?

[Slim02]

:confused::rolleyes:

Then you say...


You're only making yourself look silly now - to make it easy for you, here's a screenshot taken from here (http://europe.nokia.com/A4423134) (all about Nokia Multimedia Transfer which begins syncing automatically as soon as you connect the phone via usb). You really should do your research before you post.

As regards the rest;

You buy ringtones? I just use any tune in my library that I choose.
Bookmarks? - done through Nokia Multimedia Transfer
E-Mail accounts? - I use IMAP as it's the easiest way to keep several machines in sync.


See if you post the link like I asked before you would of not need to do it now. So I only take back that the Nokia phone can sync but others do not. Also we are talking about the Pre and if the Pre is like any of the other Palm's it will only work well with Window base computers because they do not make Mac software for their phones..

Also I do not need to pay to get new ringtone.. I can make my own with my own iTune library and do it FREE..

[eastercat]

The Pre demo looked promising, but now the flaws are starting to show (unless this is still pre-release issues) . It seemed slower than the iPhone. Also, there were a couple of times the demonstrator had to press the screen repeatedly.
I'm also worried that the multi-tasking is going to slow things down. It probably won't be to the level of jailbreaking slow, but slower than it should be.

[apolloa]

This is not an iPhone killer, it's an iPhone knockoff. And it will be seen as such because Palm mostly copied Apple and did little innovating here.

Also, it's missing one important feature it can never match: iTunes/iPod.

So what your saying is that the millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of iPod owners out there globally should ditch said iPods and buy iPhones?

[apolloa]

Its sad because the fan boys who cry for Apple to do better or do more don't realize there own ignorance is why Apple could take a piece of dog crap and put an Apple logo on it. The fan boys will defend its perfection until there death bed.

The Palm Pre is a great product however it will be marketed for people who have business needs, not a bunch of kids who want to play Super Monkey Ball and check there Myspace. The Pre will do that but it will also most likely sync 100% with Exchange and provide other business necessities the iPhone cannot.

Also, all the people saying sue Palm, I hate to tell you most of the iPhone was patented by Palm before Apple even released Intel processors.

Oooohhhh, how dare you slate the Jesus Phone. May the heavens open and God himself strike thee down! :D

[Goona]

The big feature this offers is multi tasking.

apple COULD easily do this but say it can't effectively be done (just watch the last key note when they announced OS3) and I think their reasoning is corrrect. As I said, apple would do this if they could but they say the processors aren't fast enough and batetry time will drop off significantly. They say the phone will be un useable after a couple of hours or so

So how have Palm over come these huge problems?

I guess they haven't but its a feature apple don't have (because they aren't happy to implement it) so they will have it and make a big deal of it.

I have brought lots of products which are suppose to have features so they can be in the feature list on the box but when you actually use them they are heavily comprimised and just don't work. My Nokia 6280 had an MP3 player but it was hopeless.

My guess is that palm will come unstuck with the multi tasking aspect big time.You know that the Pre is not the only phone that does 3rd part multitasking, the iphone already does multitasking just not with 3rd party apps. The Storm does multitasking and so does the G1 and plenty of other phones.

[Goona]

LOL hahaha, er no. The Palm uses a totally different and new OS, it hasn't "Ripped" the iPhones code, and Palm have already stated, and people have backed them up, that if Apple takes them to court they can counter sue Apple to the wall as it has SO many patents Apple has breached you won't believe it. Remember just how long Palm has been making mobile devices for eh :)
So don't expect to see them in court any time soon, or Apple to win anything.
Te Palm Pre will be my next phone, sim free at launch, cheaper then an iPhone oh yes, and no pathetic controls of the apps.

Oh and can ANYONE of you tell me exactly when did Apple let journalists play around with the BETA iPhone BEFORE it was launched By Steve? No? Hmm, Palm must be stupid eh?? Are we going to see Apple's new 2009 iPhone on video and photo's in flesh being demonstrated BEFORE it's launched?Cheaper than iphone, please tell me the release date and price of the Pre.

[Goona]

Here's (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/04/01/pandora-amazon-other-third-party-apps-demoed-on-palm-pre/) an engadget video of the Pre in action (the best part is pandora running in the background with notifications bar integration). And some stuff from CES here (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-pre-in-depth-impressions-video-and-huge-hands-on-gallery/).

So here's why I'm excited about the Pre:
1) True multi-tasking, I have gotten so annoyed with constantly going in and out of the home screen on the iPhone let alone not being able to listen to internet radio while browsing the web or reading e-mail.

2) Notifications, the notifications system on the iPhone is awful. They're basically pop-ups and I can't even imagine how terrible it'll be when 3.0 comes out and you got all these apps using push notifications. It'll be like browsing the internet 5 years ago when any pages you went to had pop-ups
everywhere! Yeah, that sounds like a great experienc

3) The keyboard, look I liked the iPhone virtual keyboard but then I realized I always have to look at this thing if I want to do anything. I miss dialing a
number while driving or hell changing a song while not looking (think iPod classic). For those of you who say the iPhone/iPod Touch music player is great I ask, in what way? It's not intuitive, you can't change songs without looking and really it's just a real all around pain to use.

4) App development, I'm really excited about making an application for this phone. It uses a common language and from what I've seen of the SDK so far it looks really easy to develop for. Hell, you can even develop on Linux, OS X, and Windows!

5) Non-proprietary connector! It uses USB! I can't tell you how tired I am of that stupid dock connector wearing out on my iPod's and my iPhone. Not to mention recently with the cables fraying. Let alone the price, forget it! I'm not
dealing with that anymore.

6) Removable battery, I'm a heavy user. I kill my iPhone battery in roughly 3 hours and it's not even jailbroken. No, there's nothing wrong with the battery, I just enjoy streaming radio.

7) 2nd largest 3G network, regardless of how coverage is in your area the fact is that Spring has the 2nd largest 3G network. The largest being Verizon, I'll take my chances with Sprint over AT&T any day!

I loved my iPhone, I broke it recently and I do miss it. But I don't think I'll buy another one because the Pre looks to have everything I want out of a phone, I mean I literally can't think of anything else I'd want. My only wish is that the
phone would be on Verizon, but that's okay I need a phone and so I'll go to
Sprint until Verizon gets it.

As for this being an iPhone competitor, yeah I think it is because I don't think
I've ever seen so many news stories about a non-apple device on this site ever
before.You must have missed all the news stories on this site about the G1, Storm and all the supposed iPhone killers.

[Goona]

I probably sound emotional because I'm sick of people who think Apple invented everything and is untuochable. I'm afraid not, as I already stated, Apple has breached several Palm patents but Palm don't care, yet they will if Apple try's to take them to court. And so what, company's poach ALL the time, it's Apple's tough luck if it can't keep it's employee's, not Palm's for asking them to leave, I mean the staff aren't Apple's property or patents! They are free to work for who ever the hell they want.

And you are so wrong, if YOU looked at the PROPER facts then you would see that Palm is gaining better stock value ever day, more and more and more people are interested every day in the Pre. I am not calling it an iPhone killer but several leading gadget publications are. Everyone is expecting a full on fight and for the Pre to do very well so to say that Palm will be dead next year is simply stating you haven't looked at the facts at all IMO.

Palm could be dead, they haven't sold a single one and are on the brink of going bellyup. If this phone doesn't sell like crazy, they are gone.

[GimmeSlack12]

Palm could be dead, they haven't sold a single one and are on the brink of going bellyup. If this phone doesn't sell like crazy, they are gone.

Agreed. On a side note, nearly every touch screen phone is called an iPhone-killer prior to release. And every time the iPhone wins cause everyone's attempt to copy it just doesn't cut it.

iPhone killer is a buzzword to get you to read an article. They don't exist. And the Pre most definitely will not kill the iPhone.

[Goona]

Its sad because the fan boys who cry for Apple to do better or do more don't realize there own ignorance is why Apple could take a piece of dog crap and put an Apple logo on it. The fan boys will defend its perfection until there death bed.

The Palm Pre is a great product however it will be marketed for people who have business needs, not a bunch of kids who want to play Super Monkey Ball and check there Myspace. The Pre will do that but it will also most likely sync 100% with Exchange and provide other business necessities the iPhone cannot.

Also, all the people saying sue Palm, I hate to tell you most of the iPhone was patented by Palm before Apple even released Intel processors.

Oh so you've used one, please tell us how wonderful it is.

[roberry82]

So what your saying is that the millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of iPod owners out there globally should ditch said iPods and buy iPhones?

No, I think he's saying the Palm Pre lacks one of the biggest selling points to those "less techy": it syncs with iTunes and allows direct incorporation of your media [which other smart phones do too, but they don't allow syncing through iTunes].

If my up in age mother can use her iPhone as well as she does, Apple has done something right.

I tried to put music on a friend's Blackberry Pearl a couple weeks ago and nearly pulled my hair out. I'm sure it's easier than what I experienced, but no where near as easy as using iTunes.

"Own a Mac or a PC? Use iTunes?! Great! You'll be synced up with all your data and media in no time!" Tada... instant ease for consumers who've been on the iTunes/iPod bandwagon for years.

[TheSlush]

does this seem kind of... idk... lame to anyone else?

Yes.

1) Apple has no patent on multi-touch or swiping. They didn't invent those.

As I understood it, Apple acquired Fingerworks' multi-touch patents when it acquired Fingerworks. :confused:

[TheSlush]

1) Apple has no patent on multi-touch or swiping. They didn't invent those.

As I understood it, Apple acquired Fingerworks' multi-touch patents when it acquired Fingerworks. :confused:

[apolloa]

Palm could be dead, they haven't sold a single one and are on the brink of going bellyup. If this phone doesn't sell like crazy, they are gone.

But they haven't sold a single Pre yet because they haven't launched the Pr yet :rolleyes: They have made this as a make or break device.

[apolloa]

No, I think he's saying the Palm Pre lacks one of the biggest selling points to those "less techy": it syncs with iTunes and allows direct incorporation of your media [which other smart phones do too, but they don't allow syncing through iTunes].

If my up in age mother can use her iPhone as well as she does, Apple has done something right.

I tried to put music on a friend's Blackberry Pearl a couple weeks ago and nearly pulled my hair out. I'm sure it's easier than what I experienced, but no where near as easy as using iTunes.

"Own a Mac or a PC? Use iTunes?! Great! You'll be synced up with all your data and media in no time!" Tada... instant ease for consumers who've been on the iTunes/iPod bandwagon for years.

As I already said, all those people that would find syncing with iTunes "Cool" already have iPods, they are going to think why should I pay maximum price on a very long term fixed contract with only 1 network. The iPhone is not value for money.

[Goona]

As I already said, all those people that would find syncing with iTunes "Cool" already have iPods, they are going to think why should I pay maximum price on a very long term fixed contract with only 1 network. The iPhone is not value for money.Isn't the Pre going to be available on 1 network, I guess it's good for value of money.

[apolloa]

Isn't the Pre going to be available on 1 network, I guess it's good for value of money.

In the US yes, they have made no announcement for the rest of the world so I'm hoping not, or at least that I can buy it sim free which is what I want to do.

[bryantsiphone]

it can try to be anything but it wont get near the iphone.
look at the storm, the g1, for example, they try to imitate it
but cant.

[swagi]

S@&T ME SOMEONE WHO LIVES OUTSIDE APPLE AND POSTS HERE!!! SOMEONE WHO REALISES A LIFE OUTSIDE THE "JESUS" PHONE!!

Well done sir, you are a rare thing on this forum. Most people don't seem to have ever heard of Nokia or Sony Ericcson....

And yeap, you and me the consumers will be the ones wining anything this summer!

Thanx, I tried hard. :D

<completely off topic>

But, you know, most people here really love there Jesus Phone and they don't give a damn that iTunes, the most capable audio manager on the planet, has become a lame POS 'I do it all'-type of application.

I mean, really, does anyone here still remember the iSync-introduction? iSync is a very nice app, and the plugin architecture is perfect for syncing contact and calendar data. Worked like a charm with all my mobiles to date. I don't get, why all this stuff is done in iTunes, when iSync is the place, where all this should be.

Same applies to data transmission - nice and easy bluetooth data exchange with no problems. No stupid proprietary connector, no cable. Just nice and easy. Want to backup the data on your phone? Now just connect with Bluetooth and copy the folders you like to your HDD. Can it be any cleaner than that?

Well, Apple nows and decides, what is best for us. So they decided to put this stupid iPhoto-thing on your Mac. You lost control over your pictures back then. Yes, you can categorize and tag via that horrible GUI. Ever tried to browse one photo in your iPhoto-library using Finder, because you want to use it elsewhere? No, you either browse all day, or you tell iPhoto to put a copy of that pic in a destination folder. Yeah - we get bigger HDDs all the time, so why not use these resources...

Then came that bloody Fair-Play-stuff and the Jesus Phone - and it all went wrong. iTunes became the stupid eye-candy BS we now have on our Macs.

I so wish, all these new iPhone kiddies would just spend one day with the sleek elegance of Panther and iTunes4. Maybe they'd then get a notion of how iTUNES degenerated into iSHOP&SYNC&WATCH MOVIES.

And the grand masterplan behind all tht was, that you don't need to worry about the data on your precious Jesus Phone.
/rant

[GimmeSlack12]

As I already said, all those people that would find syncing with iTunes "Cool" already have iPods, they are going to think why should I pay maximum price on a very long term fixed contract with only 1 network. The iPhone is not value for money.

And what is Value for Money then? I mean, people like to make iTunes/iPods/Apple appear like this fashion trend because even "moms" and computer illiterates find them fun to use. Therefore the tech savvy need not apply.

iTunes syncing is "Cool" because it makes you productive with less effort, or perhaps even makes you feel smart because you can achieve what you want to achieve (and not settle for a compromised solution because it was too technical for you to figure out). And you want to ignore this and go with a more difficult route?

I don't get it. Are people really that concerned with avoiding "Cool"? Even if it means dealing with a less enjoyable product?


I so wish, all these new iPhone kiddies would just spend one day with the sleek elegance of Panther and iTunes4. Maybe they'd then get a notion of how iTUNES degenerated into iSHOP&SYNC&WATCH MOVIES.


But Panther doesn't have Expose or Spaces. Why would I want that crap? C'mon, you can turn off a crapload of options in iTunes 8, it's not that hard.

[dtich]

Couldn't have put it better.

Give me a single example of Apple directly responding to any competitor's product? They don't ever do that. They just set their course and go. I never understand these "Wow, this will really get Apple's butt in gear" comments because a) Apple's butt is already in high gear as it is and b) Apple doesn't seem to give a rip what others are doing. If that were the case, we would have had copy-and-paste in the iPhone from the start. We would have had DRM-free music in iTunes a couple years ago.

Apple has consistently followed their own compass and not shown any worry about getting bogged down matching features with the wannabes.

ok, enough already. what is it with you people?? always talking sh**t. not necessarily you ink, but i quote you because others have seconded this down the line...

apple didn't do cut/paste earlier because they had not setup the very complex framework of a system-wide pasteboard and wanted to fully integrate it, which it now is i can tell you. they don't want to half-ass the whole thing, which is part of why we love their products. and don't pretend you don't.

drm-free music is what apple wanted to do and the record companies made them do it with drm, so stop that baseless whining. amazon finally convinced the records to open it up as it was all crumbling anyway and now itunes will have drm-free as well... so chill. it is a process, the record industry was/is collapsing/re-structuring and that takes a bit of time.

and true multi-tasking will be on the iphone, preemptive, persistent memory, multi-tasking. they are waiting for a processor that can handle it properly and to structure the memory pagination so it works without hiccups, like we all want it to. that too would certainly have been done earlier if they felt like they could. the mac has been fully multi-tasking for generations, the mac os is the most stable multi-thread os out there, and iphone os is based on it, so what would you expect?? just.. hang... on.... for.. a.. freaking.. second. will ya? jeez. they are trying to get it all done, but done correctly. wait till you have six or seven apps open on the pre and see how slow that thing goes. hear me now and believe me later.

and if you think 'all the apps are interconnected' in the pre, wait till it releases and everyone discovers that, yes, fandango (or fandora as she kept calling it) integrated their app very well with the pre os, but others likely have not. lots of apps on the iphone can and will do that as well.

is the pre nicely designed? yep, i think so too. can apple learn a trick or two from it? sure. will they? probably. like, not having to click all the way back the the springboard to add a contact to contacts, or make a call from an email contact, etc. it, will, happen. don't worry.

just stop saying stuff with no damn basis in fact or history.

ok. have at me. :)

[dtich]

You mean in exactly the same way that Apple does with it's demonstrably misleading iPhone ads? :rolleyes:

all 'ads' are simulated so they work and look perfect, it's an ad. but a demo should be different. really. i think.

but, yes, they all do it.

[gnasher729]

How so?

Obviously by your choice of words. The British Advertising Standards Authority would never be "rapping anyone's knuckles". They just send a letter that an advertisement states things that are not proven facts, for example. Your choice of words indicates something completely different. It implies that Apple was accused of doing something immoral or underhanded when this was not the case. So you give a wrong impression. Which is exactly what you wouldn't be allowed to do in an advertisement.

You may also have missed that Palm had to retract a lot of statements that it made about the Palm Pre, not because someone on the outside told them, but on advice of its own lawyers (who must almost have had a heart attack when they read some of those statements).

[apolloa]

And what is Value for Money then? I mean, people like to make iTunes/iPods/Apple appear like this fashion trend because even "moms" and computer illiterates find them fun to use. Therefore the tech savvy need not apply.


How about a phone with simple features like MMS from LAUNCH? And don't even go down the route of it's not used, maybe in the US but it is used every where else, it's one simple feature that the cheapest phone on the market had yet one of the most expensive did not. That's total lack of value for money. And I don't expect 2 thirds of iPhone owners really care or do sync their data.
And people are concerned about choice, that's something the iPhone doesn't currently offer, you HAVE to join O2 in the UK to use it fully like visual voice mail. If O2's reception is crap where you live then tough, no iPhone.

[Slim02]

How about a phone with simple features like MMS from LAUNCH? And don't even go down the route of it's not used, maybe in the US but it is used every where else, it's one simple feature that the cheapest phone on the market had yet one of the most expensive did not. That's total lack of value for money. And I don't expect 2 thirds of iPhone owners really care or do sync their data.
And people are concerned about choice, that's something the iPhone doesn't currently offer, you HAVE to join O2 in the UK to use it fully like visual voice mail. If O2's reception is crap where you live then tough, no iPhone.

That can be said the same for Pre or any phone that is tried to only one carrier.. You can not just target just the iPhone and not look at all the other phones that are the same way...

[apolloa]

That can be said the same for Pre or any phone that is tried to only one carrier.. You can not just target just the iPhone and not look at all the other phones that are the same way...

Well, the iPhone is the ONLY phone with visual voice mail which as far as I know in the UK that is ONLY supported by one carrier O2 and it's also the ONLY phone that was launched without MMS etc. So no I can't say those points about any other phone and Palm have made no announcement about the Pre in the UK.

[needthephone]

You know that the Pre is not the only phone that does 3rd part multitasking, the iphone already does multitasking just not with 3rd party apps. The Storm does multitasking and so does the G1 and plenty of other phones.

Yes I know windows mobile and most of the others allows multitasking. But its not a viable solution.

I know people with windows mobile, symbian etc and the battery life is terrible.

One of my friends was so frustrated with his N95 for battery life and general crashes he smashed it with a hammer.

Apple aren't perfect and they are run by an evil genius (or they use to be but i suspect its an ingrained mentality in their culture) which creates money making business models so well conceived that most people can't actually spot what they have done.

apple are masters at the intangibles. That gorgeous expensive packaging which is such a joy to open isn't a self indulgent w#$k fest for Jonny Ive, its a carefully thought out piece of theatre which will just add to the apple user experience and create a sense of anticipation and create brand loyalty the brown box companies will never match. Same with the precise industrial design and anal obsession with thinness.

Despite apples shortcomings they are passionate about the user experience.

Other companies add features to just make the "feature set" look good as the marketeers have said guys give us multitasking, a removeable battery a 4MP camera as our focus group said so. But many of these features are just faetures in name only, they don't really work that well.

People are so satisfied with their iphones and ipods as they do exactly what they say on the box. Other mobile phones may bristle with great features on paper but they don't really work if you were honest. Hence these companies have lousy satisfaction ratings.

They are run by marketeers who rely on market research.

I love apple because they don't employ marketeers they just trust their entrepenurial instinct for innovation.

Yes they get it wrong but when they get it right it's spectacular and will produce results that no market research driven company will ever see.

To get back on subject, yes the pre may promise multi tasking but if it doesn't deliver it will be the death of palm, patent or ex employee CA breaches not with standing.

[Trajectory]

I so wish, all these new iPhone kiddies would just spend one day with the sleek elegance of Panther and iTunes4. Maybe they'd then get a notion of how iTUNES degenerated into iSHOP&SYNC&WATCH MOVIES.

Kiddies? :rolleyes: iTunes is a STORE, and always has been. Don't blow a gasket over it.

So what your saying is that the millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of iPod owners out there globally should ditch said iPods and buy iPhones?

No. I said that the Pre is missing iTunes/iPod, a big selling feature for the iPhone. You know, buy an iPhone, get a free iPod built in?

[SandynJosh]

Ah, now, the memory point I wanted to pick up on. Do you think that as it has 8GB installed, it will actually undercut the iPhones price? 8GB i smore then enough for me as I have an iPod for music thanks, but I think it will allow Palm to price it lower?

Palm already said their phone won't be less expensive than the current iPhone.

[apolloa]

Palm already said their phone won't be less expensive than the current iPhone.

Got proof of that then?

[SandynJosh]

who cares, until either the pre or the iphone jump onto verizon, the battle won't be over. First one to do that, will gain a huge market

That's my thinking. I have loved my Verizon experience and have tried the others. Of course, things change among the carriers in the scramble for market share, but I'd feel a whole lot better if I could use an iPhone on Verizon.

This brings up another hurdle for the Palm Pre. Palm has a rather tarnished reputation for false starts and lack of a direction. If our past experiences with carriers drive us to some extent to feel more confident in staying with one or another, wouldn't that apply to the phone we select as well?

[madman365]

Fat little thing isn't? So a fat little phone with a squeaky, rattling keyboard that slides out with buttons too small for the average male finger is supposed to be the iPhone Killer? Give me a break!

Wait til the new iPhone comes out in its thinner profile, 3.0 multitasking software and the Pre is going to get blown out of the water before it even realizes it's hit the water.

Did you actually watch the 3.0 presentation. there will not be ANY multi-tasking on the iPhone. The 3.0 OS will only offer Push Notification. Mult-Tasking, according to Apple, will only drain the battery too fast. Where is everybody getting the idea that Apple will actually put multi-tasking in the phone when they already said it's a stupid idea and even belittled Windows for using it?

[SandynJosh]

For me, the app store is the trump card here. I'm not leaving the iphone unless and until someone else has an app store that gives me even close to the quality, quantity, and ease of use that I get with the iphone.

Probably half of what I use my iphone for comes from 3rd party apps. Any phone that can't give me equivalent apps to duplicate that functionality doesn't interest me.

I've beaten that drum over and over. The app store/iTunes, the syncing, the SDK...the whole structure that surrounds a phone may even outweigh any one phone's advantage over another as long as that advantage isn't trivial.

Apple brought the iPhone to a rather mature market where a lot of pundists didn't see past the iPhone just being another, albeit expensive, phone. What they didn't reckon on was the infrastructure of the developer SDK-to-user app store to redefine the experience.

Even today, many of the Palm Pre proponents on this thread under-value the whole structure that the iPhone fits into, and that's where the experiential value to the user ultimately lies.

I don't suppose that there is a single spec on the iPhone that isn't either met or exceeded by one phone or another. So, the success and the attraction comes down to a larger picture than what you end up holding in your hand.

Finally, all this oxygen being wasted over which is better; a virtual or physical keyboard, may overlook how quickly voice dial and speech-to-text may be in the offering for mobile users.

[AidenShaw]

...it syncs with iTunes..

To me, the most important feature of any phone or music player is that it doesn't require me to load the malware named "Itunes" on my system.

I was forced to get an Ipod Touch for work. To avoid loading the Itunes malware on my real systems, I made an XP virtual machine and put the Cupertino virus on it.

Unfortunately, I've misplaced the Ipod Touch and haven't been able to find it since about November. But, I didn't realize that it had gone missing until March - so obviously it had little value for me....

[SandynJosh]

Got proof of that then?

Ed Colligan, President and CEO of Palm, has said "the Pré will cost more than the iPhone because it is a better product."

Let's see, he's gonna charge more than Apple, in a "down" market, with a unproven product, no worldwide plan, from a company that's one step ahead of the grim reaper.

This is kind of like General Motors offering a new auto, a week after they lose the government funding, that guzzles gas worse then a Hummer, costs more than a Cadillac, and has no dealership network... but man-oh-man you can listen to the radio while working on the engine. :D

[kdarling]

As I understood it, Apple acquired Fingerworks' multi-touch patents when it acquired Fingerworks. :confused:

Yes, but the Fingerworks patent applications not only date from after 2000 (years after other people were using multi-touch screens)... but more importantly, as far as I can tell from looking at them, were for methods used on opaque non-screen devices such as keyboards.

[SandynJosh]

I was forced to get an Ipod Touch for work. To avoid loading the Itunes malware on my real systems, I made an XP virtual machine and put the Cupertino virus on it.

Unfortunately, I've misplaced the Ipod Touch and haven't been able to find it since about November. But, I didn't realize that it had gone missing until March - so obviously it had little value for me....

You, my friend, are the very person for who Microsoft created the brown Zune.

You seem to be a very emotionally unhappy person. "Welcome to Hell, here's your accordion."

[MHerstand]

What I wouldn't give to listen to Pandora while doing other things on my iTouch... well, probably not my left nut, but close.

[ebouwman]

bring on the competition!!! this will only make the iphone that much stronger.

is it still set for april 30th as a release date?

Ok, i hate to quote the first reply to this thread, cause doing so is kinda retarded, but still.

There is no real competition for the iphone, i mean really, i haven't used tones of touch smart phones, but the difference is staggering between using the iPhone OS (on my iPod touch) and using the os on my moms LG dare, and my (sorry guys) blackberry storm. The competition still hasn't caught up

And did anyone else notice the lack of a keyboard?

[MHerstand]

You, my friend, are the very person for who Microsoft created the brown Zune.

You seem to be a very emotionally unhappy person. "Welcome to Hell, here's your accordion."

Sad thing is he/she (it) has been a member here since 2003. I could understand if it made an account just to mess with us, but what kind of Macrumors member for that long calls iTunes "malware"?

[AidenShaw]

...calls iTunes "malware"?

Malevalent software is malware, no?

[Syrus28]

Ed Colligan, President and CEO of Palm, has said "the Pré will cost more than the iPhone because it is a better product."

Let's see, he's gonna charge more than Apple, in a "down" market, with a unproven product, no worldwide plan, from a company that's one step ahead of the grim reaper.

This is kind of like General Motors offering a new auto, a week after they lose the government funding, that guzzles gas worse then a Hummer, costs more than a Cadillac, and has no dealership network... but man-oh-man you can listen to the radio while working on the engine. :D
Uhh...no. He responded to a question asking whether the Palm Pre would undercut the iPhone at a cheaper price in which he responded "Why would we do that when we have a vastly better product?" He also said the Pre would be priced "competitive". No mention of it being more expensive than the iPhone.

I'd expect it at the $199 price-point just like the iPhone.

[Syrus28]

Is this being ignored?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=multi-touch&s2=multitouch&OS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch&RS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch

http://www.macworld.com/article/138465/2009/01/multitouch_patent.html

Apple certainly does not have ALL patents on multitouch, but they certainly have some, and Apple as well as others believe these patents are being infringed. The patent focuses on how multitouch is implemented, how it works from a technical prespective, not on the idea of multitouch itself (Ex. Microsoft's Surface executes multitouch in a very different way than the iPhone does, yet the general idea of multitouch is still the same).

They may be proven to be wrong, but they are within their right to go forward with something like this. Now you, as well as others, may or may not agree that these patents are being infringed, but to imply that they should not try to defend something which they believe is theirs, and apparently have worked to protect it (hence the patent) is a mistake.
Except for the fact that Palm also holds patents that Apple violates... You have to remember Palm's been in the game a long time, and has a pretty big patent portfolio themselves - all relating to mobile devices. Here's a good read on the whole thing [Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/)]

[str1f3]

I probably sound emotional because I'm sick of people who think Apple invented everything and is untuochable. I'm afraid not, as I already stated, Apple has breached several Palm patents but Palm don't care, yet they will if Apple try's to take them to court. And so what, company's poach ALL the time, it's Apple's tough luck if it can't keep it's employee's, not Palm's for asking them to leave, I mean the staff aren't Apple's property or patents! They are free to work for who ever the hell they want.

And you are so wrong, if YOU looked at the PROPER facts then you would see that Palm is gaining better stock value ever day, more and more and more people are interested every day in the Pre. I am not calling it an iPhone killer but several leading gadget publications are. Everyone is expecting a full on fight and for the Pre to do very well so to say that Palm will be dead next year is simply stating you haven't looked at the facts at all IMO.

I don't think you looked at the facts. At their last quarterly earnings call palm had lost like 50 million (maybe more). Palm now says that it has $200 million dollars in the bank. That's is very close to broke. When you factor in operational costs, manufacturing costs, all the salaries for those former apple employees, and advertising. Why do you think that palm is pushing the pre to celebrities? They have no money for advertising. Palm is probably hoping that sprint will help with advertising. Stock value has nothing to do with this. Palm can have a moderate success with the pre and still be out of business within a year. The worst part is that palm probably has another quarterly earnings call before the pre is released with more losses and even less in the bank.

[MHerstand]

Malevalent software is malware, no?

Malware could be described as malevolent, but it would need to be malevolent toward consumers. How exactly was iTunes made with a purpose of being malevolent toward consumers? I'm not saying I've never been frustrated with iTunes - heck I've been frustrated with every piece of software I use - but I don't call them all malware just cause they don't do everything I want the way I want it. iTunes is free and it gets the job done.

[Sehnsucht]

Malevalent software is malware, no?

Unless it's by Microsoft...then it's so wonderful and marvelous. Each side has their fanboys, I suppose. :rolleyes:

For one, it's "malevolent". And what's with "Itunes", "Ipod", "Imac", and referring to Macs derisively as "Apples"? It's pretty annoying and IMHO, reflects a bit of bitterness on someone's part. ;)

[Sehnsucht]

...but I don't call them all malware just cause they don't do everything I want the way I want it.

He calls it "malware" because it's an Apple product. The bias is obvious. :rolleyes:

[swagi]

But Panther doesn't have Expose or Spaces. Why would I want that crap? C'mon, you can turn off a crapload of options in iTunes 8, it's not that hard.

Err....Exposé was introduced with Panther. Good morning sir.

And Spaces .... nah ... I could care less. If you said Tiger and Spotlight, your argument was fair, but Spaces...pffffffft
:D:D:D:D:D

[swagi]

Kiddies? :rolleyes: iTunes is a STORE, and always has been. Don't blow a gasket over it.



No. I said that the Pre is missing iTunes/iPod, a big selling feature for the iPhone. You know, buy an iPhone, get a free iPod built in?

Check the facts, Kid. iTunes MUSIC STORE (sic!) was introduced in 2003 alongside iTunes 4. If you'd check the number, you maybe realize, that we fellow Apple users played around with a very nice version 2 and 3 before.

iTunes is NOT a store, but it was primarily designed to be the WinAmp of the Mac - google Soundjam for your free will, to get some basic info.

iTunes suddenly became capable of playing videos, as they wanted to give you photo and video management of your iPod-video stuff (aka iPod Photo and iPod 5G).

Now all of the sudden you had two Apple based video solutions on your Mac - Quicktime (which still is the standard app for that) and iTunes (which in the beginning suddenly scanned your HDD for videos and allowed you to browse them).

And every other phone on the market can easily manage and play your audio data (which in my case means ZERO Apple-DRM-AACs, which some phones don't support).

[Goona]

Did you actually watch the 3.0 presentation. there will not be ANY multi-tasking on the iPhone. The 3.0 OS will only offer Push Notification. Mult-Tasking, according to Apple, will only drain the battery too fast. Where is everybody getting the idea that Apple will actually put multi-tasking in the phone when they already said it's a stupid idea and even belittled Windows for using it?

There is multitasking on the iPhone, just not with 3rd party apps.

[Goona]

To me, the most important feature of any phone or music player is that it doesn't require me to load the malware named "Itunes" on my system.

I was forced to get an Ipod Touch for work. To avoid loading the Itunes malware on my real systems, I made an XP virtual machine and put the Cupertino virus on it.

Unfortunately, I've misplaced the Ipod Touch and haven't been able to find it since about November. But, I didn't realize that it had gone missing until March - so obviously it had little value for me....

Yeah the iTunes malware is so bad that it has still become the number one music store, I mean all the users using it are so clueless to know they are using a virus.

[Trajectory]

Check the facts, Kid. iTunes MUSIC STORE (sic!) was introduced in 2003 alongside iTunes 4. If you'd check the number, you maybe realize, that we fellow Apple users played around with a very nice version 2 and 3 before.

iTunes is NOT a store, but it was primarily designed to be the WinAmp of the Mac - google Soundjam for your free will, to get some basic info.

iTunes suddenly became capable of playing videos, as they wanted to give you photo and video management of your iPod-video stuff (aka iPod Photo and iPod 5G).

Now all of the sudden you had two Apple based video solutions on your Mac - Quicktime (which still is the standard app for that) and iTunes (which in the beginning suddenly scanned your HDD for videos and allowed you to browse them).

And every other phone on the market can easily manage and play your audio data (which in my case means ZERO Apple-DRM-AACs, which some phones don't support).

It's not necessary to be rude and condescending.

[Trajectory]

Yeah the iTunes malware is so bad that it has still become the number one music store, I mean all the users using it are so clueless to know they are using a virus.

That is the most ridiculous statement. I presume you don't use iTunes at all, then, if it's a "virus"? Use a PeeCee if you want to know what a real virus looks like.

[DELLsFan]

A few folks here have claimed Apple has a history of ignoring its rivals, that it doesn't focus on any competition; that they do their own thing regardless. Well, to these folks, I think you're wrong. If you were correct and Apple was so good and so far ahead of the competition, they wouldn't be so aggressive with their patent-infringement lawsuits for the supposed iPhone Killers.

I know companies are compelled to defend their patents regardless - but it seems to me if Apple has nothing to worry about the Pre, and Palm is on the way out of the market, we won't need to worry about Apple wasting valuable R&D dollars on legal expenses, right?

Sometimes I wonder who is more arrogant: Apple or its fanboys. :rolleyes:

[tuckerja]

A few folks here have claimed Apple has a history of ignoring its rivals, that it doesn't focus on any competition; that they do their own thing regardless. Well, to these folks, I think you're wrong. If you were correct and Apple was so good and so far ahead of the competition, they wouldn't be so aggressive with their patent-infringement lawsuits for the supposed iPhone Killers.

I know companies are compelled to defend their patents regardless - but it seems to me if Apple has nothing to worry about the Pre, and Palm is on the way out of the market, we won't need to worry about Apple wasting valuable R&D dollars on legal expenses, right?

Sometimes I wonder who is more arrogant: Apple or its fanboys. :rolleyes:

I'm not the biggest forum user, but I have a quick question to ask. Why do people who obviously disagree with Apple's business practices and products visit Apple rumor sites and post on their forums? Is this your way of stirring up trouble, or did you have nothing better to do? I don't mean to piss you off, but its just vexing to me to see people write on forums who only exist within said forum to be the contention.

By the way I like the pre, and I think it should do well as Palm needs a savior. While it may take away some market share from Apple, it will take more away from RIM, Nokia, Motorola, etc. I doubt you will see huge amounts of iPhone users switching to the Pre. The new iPhone will do just fine around the world.

[nicegoogly]

I have always had a treo for my business line (I have owned all of them) through Sprint. I like the new Pre, the features seems kind of cool and punched up a bit, but what a boring demo/ad for this phone. That chick put me to sleep. It is me, or was there magical typing going on so they didn't have to show the sliding keyboard. I have my complaints about my iPhone keyboard, but maintenance on a virtual keyboard is much easier then buttons that do not work so well, missing button, sliding keyboard mechanism malfunction. The simplicity of less moving parts will always set apart the iPhone. However, as I type this, I am waiting in the Apple Store for my mac genius appointment for a shorted out ringer switch. Two or three buttons on the damn device and one of them went already. Pre is snazzy, iPhone will always seem more sophisticated and hip. Not a Pre hater, as I will be getting one for my business line.

[Goona]

That is the most ridiculous statement. I presume you don't use iTunes at all, then, if it's a "virus"? Use a PeeCee if you want to know what a real virus looks like.

Dude I was being sarcastic. :D

[DELLsFan]

I'm not the biggest forum user, but I have a quick question to ask. Why do people who obviously disagree with Apple's business practices and products visit Apple rumor sites and post on their forums? Is this your way of stirring up trouble, or did you have nothing better to do? I don't mean to piss you off, but its just vexing to me to see people write on forums who only exist within said forum to be the contention.

By the way I like the pre, and I think it should do well as Palm needs a savior. While it may take away some market share from Apple, it will take more away from RIM, Nokia, Motorola, etc. I doubt you will see huge amounts of iPhone users switching to the Pre. The new iPhone will do just fine around the world.

If you were a "big forum user", just maybe you might have stumbled upon any of my previous posts on this thread or elsewhere on another topic. Though I am relatively new here, the sample might demonstrate to you an interest and passion about certain Mac products - even if visiting my public profile did not.

Maybe your vexation and premise about certain opinions would be more credible if your own had even addressed the point(s) I was making, sir? Giving you some benefit of the doubt, since you're not here often, I'll simply say you are mistaken about some "people" and the accusation basks your point in a warm pail of irony. :rolleyes:

[Trajectory]

Dude I was being sarcastic. :D

Sorry, it's hard to tell the difference in this thread. I'm amazed at the number of people here on an Apple products forum that absolutely detest everything Apple makes.

[Goona]

Sorry, it's hard to tell the difference in this thread. I'm amazed at the number of people here on an Apple products forum that absolutely detest everything Apple makes.

Hehehehe, it's real funny. First they were here rambling on and on about the G1, then the Storm, then N95, when that died down, now they have a new kid on the block: Palm Pre, I wonder who's next for them to proclaim.

[micxmac]

I want one.

It is an iPhone with the brilliant Palm personal organizer interface, the Blackberry keyboard and Blackberry push email.

Has the best of each of 3 competing product lines, all in one.

Brilliant

[scottness]

A little healthy competition will do us all some good. I'm wondering how much, if anything, this will change things for us.

[swagi]

A little healthy competition will do us all some good. I'm wondering how much, if anything, this will change things for us.

I hope it will mainly change one thing - the contract price.

Honestly, the differences between those devices are becoming pretty minor recently. So there are two possible scenarios:

a) Next Gen iPhone becomes pretty beefed up (e.g. better camera is a must).

b) iPhone still remains pretty much the same featurewise, but becomes a lot cheaper.

With either scenario we, the customers, win. ;)

And trajectory - sorry, I didn't mean to be rude.

[Oh-es-Ten]

apple are masters at the intangibles. That gorgeous expensive packaging which is such a joy to open isn't a self indulgent w#$k fest for Jonny Ive, its a carefully thought out piece of theatre which will just add to the apple user experience and create a sense of anticipation and create brand loyalty the brown box companies will never match. Same with the precise industrial design and anal obsession with thinness.

Despite apples shortcomings they are passionate about the user experience.

Other companies add features to just make the "feature set" look good as the marketeers have said guys give us multitasking, a removeable battery a 4MP camera as our focus group said so. But many of these features are just faetures in name only, they don't really work that well.

People are so satisfied with their iphones and ipods as they do exactly what they say on the box. Other mobile phones may bristle with great features on paper but they don't really work if you were honest. Hence these companies have lousy satisfaction ratings.

I love apple because they don't employ marketeers they just trust their entrepenurial instinct for innovation.


Completely agree here. Well said. That is why others fail to see the value of the ownership experience instead of comparing fact sheets and feature lists.

[t0mat0]

Completely agree here. Well said. That is why others fail to see the value of the ownership experience instead of comparing fact sheets and feature lists.

Agree too - If you're using a device, why not have an emotional connection with it - make it a joy to use, make it fun. That doesn't take anything away necessarily from it's usability - in some ways it makes it better. An experience, rather than a use of a device.
You can see this by the number of people who're curious about the iPhone, or Mac, versus a standard PC or phone. They're not perfect, but they can give a better experience as you use them, and for some, that's a definite tangible, that people are happy to pay for.

[Trajectory]

Hehehehe, it's real funny. First they were here rambling on and on about the G1, then the Storm, then N95, when that died down, now they have a new kid on the block: Palm Pre, I wonder who's next for them to proclaim.

There will always be people on both sides of this endless debate. Some of them need to realize, however, that this is an Apple products forum and trying to convert the already-converted is an exercise in futility. I accept that one person may prefer PC/Windows over Mac/OSX, but there's no need to keep bashing it over our heads until they can see blood. I don't care how many more gigas, megas or terras I can get with a PC, I simply don't want it. I want a Mac. He wants a PC. Great, have a nice day!

I do wonder why some people here who've been members for years do nothing but trash everything Apple makes, and they keep coming back for more and more abuse. To me that borders on insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

And trajectory - sorry, I didn't mean to be rude.

Thank you! :)

[apolloa]

I do wonder why some people here who've been members for years do nothing but trash everything Apple makes, and they keep coming back for more and more abuse. To me that borders on insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Because they exercise their rights to choose other manufacturers? They love the Mac computer and OS but like me think the iPhone is a joke, yes it has an amazing revolutionary interface, but it lacked so many basic features at launch it was laughable in Europe at least.
And some people on here REALLY do display the reasons why Mac fanboys are hated so much around the world. They are truly blinded by the name and nothing else.

[Goona]

Because they exercise their rights to choose other manufacturers? They love the Mac computer and OS but like me think the iPhone is a joke, yes it has an amazing revolutionary interface, but it lacked so many basic features at launch it was laughable in Europe at least.
And some people on here REALLY do display the reasons why Mac fanboys are hated so much around the world. They are truly blinded by the name and nothing else.

And you show the reason why trolls like you are hated on mac forums.

[Goona]

There will always be people on both sides of this endless debate. Some of them need to realize, however, that this is an Apple products forum and trying to convert the already-converted is an exercise in futility. I accept that one person may prefer PC/Windows over Mac/OSX, but there's no need to keep bashing it over our heads until they can see blood. I don't care how many more gigas, megas or terras I can get with a PC, I simply don't want it. I want a Mac. He wants a PC. Great, have a nice day!


I just don't know, maybe they need to find a way to justify not purchasing an iphone or a mac, who knows.

[gnasher729]

Its sad because the fan boys who cry for Apple to do better or do more don't realize there own ignorance is why Apple could take a piece of dog crap and put an Apple logo on it. The fan boys will defend its perfection until there death bed.

Apple _could_ do that, but they don't. Microsoft did and called it the "Zune" :D

[scottness]

I hope it will mainly change one thing - the contract price.

Honestly, the differences between those devices are becoming pretty minor recently. So there are two possible scenarios:

a) Next Gen iPhone becomes pretty beefed up (e.g. better camera is a must).

b) iPhone still remains pretty much the same featurewise, but becomes a lot cheaper.

With either scenario we, the customers, win. ;)

And trajectory - sorry, I didn't mean to be rude.

I'll respectfully disagree...

a) I don't care about the camera--sorry

b) Background Apps!!!

I guess we all have a different use for it, yeah?

[TheSlush]

Yes, but the Fingerworks patent applications not only date from after 2000 (years after other people were using multi-touch screens)... but more importantly, as far as I can tell from looking at them, were for methods used on opaque non-screen devices such as keyboards.

So then are we to assume that Steve Jobs' comments during iPhone's unveiling -- "We have invented a new technology called Multi-Touch... and, boy, have we patented it!" -- was just posturing, more bark than bite?

[kdarling]

So then are we to assume that Steve Jobs' comments during iPhone's unveiling -- "We have invented a new technology called Multi-Touch... and, boy, have we patented it!" -- was just posturing, more bark than bite?

Jobs is a salesman, not an engineer. That should tell you everything. He said:

And we have invented a new technology called multi-touch, which is phenomenal. It works like magic. You don't need a stylus. It's far more accurate than any touch display that's ever been shipped. It ignores unintended touches, it's super-smart. You can do multi-finger gestures on it. And boy, have we patented it.

Translation: It's new to Apple. I'm not an engineer, so it seems like magic to me. It cannot use a stylus. It's more accurate than anything Apple has shipped. The software knows that if you scroll, you're not clicking. You can do multi-finger gestures on it. We've applied for patents on various pieces, but you'll think I meant much more, although I have plausible denial since I just said "it".

Jobs is a sales pro. He tells the truth, and nothing but the truth, but leaves out the whole truth. This makes him believable, yet also allows him to mix and match phrases in such a way that people who don't listen closely, will assume he said much more than he did.

Although I'm older than him and have probably done as many dog & pony shows as he did back in the early Valley days, he's really good at that kind of thing. He makes me smile.

[Malfoy]

i want one to compliment my bold, iphone, and G1. It'll make me more well rounded :o

[TheSlush]

We've applied for patents on various pieces, but you'll think I meant much more, although I have plausible denial since I just said "it".

Speak of the devil. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/technology/companies/09apple.html)

[Trajectory]

Because they exercise their rights to choose other manufacturers? They love the Mac computer and OS but like me think the iPhone is a joke, yes it has an amazing revolutionary interface, but it lacked so many basic features at launch it was laughable in Europe at least.
And some people on here REALLY do display the reasons why Mac fanboys are hated so much around the world. They are truly blinded by the name and nothing else.

Spoken like a true Fanboy.

[Black Belt]

The Pre looks like a great device. And regarding the "ecosystem" comments....Palm had a mobile ecosystem WAY before Apple. That is why the Newton failed as the Palm took over the PDA space. Apps? Palm long ago mastered the concept of Apps as well. I think they took the lessons of the iPhone and the complaints about the aging Palm software to heart and developed something truly great. Of course, we'll see if it stands the test of time but I think it has a great chance. After all, it wouldn't be the first time Palm took on Apple and did very well.

[FightTheFuture]

Palm had a mobile ecosystem WAY before Apple. That is why the Newton failed as the Palm took over the PDA space.i agree that the Pre will be successful but the PDA market, in general, was short lived. the Treo also was overshadowed by windows mobile phones and blackberry's popularity.

that being said, the Pre has a great chance simply because they are going through what Apple has gone through. Palm hasn't had anything exciting in years and they have learned from their mistakes.

[robanga]

If only to keep Apple on it's toes, I hope Palm has a hit.

[DougB541]

Very excited for the Pre personally.

I don't think it'll significantly damage iPhones marketshare, but it'll certainly take a few people from each handset owner.


APple has proven one thing though, they are very good at making "customers for life" for whatever reason. So you could make the best phone god himself crafted from ademanteum and brawn......but there are some iPhone users who would never buy anything else unless "iPhone" was attached.

[iOrlando]

i have no plans to buy a Palm Pre. To me, the company who makes and markets the phone is important. I am not impressed with Palm as a company and their execution. A one-hit wonder may be all fun and chic and cool, but then what? I doubt Palm has the capabilities to consistently come out with cool and new phones down the road.

Sadly, I think the Palm is just a victor of the online blog (which most gadgets become these days). All you need is a few blogs rave about a device, let it stew for a few months, and then people will just buy into it without actually knowing squat about the phone....

I think Palm will be in equals with android in the phone market and the sanyo music player in the mp3 market. aka popular with the apple-haters of the world.

[elppa]

I doubt Palm has the capabilities to consistently come out with cool and new phones down the road.

Palm has already demonstrated a total inability to invest in their platform and key technologies.

[kdarling]

Palm is rumored to be in a deal with ATT to sell their next WebOS phone:

$99 Palm Eos for ATT later this year (http://gizmodo.com/5234483/palm-eos-palms-tiny-webos-phone-is-super-skinny-and-att+bound)

ATT is smart. Get Apple to sign an exclusive, but continue to sell as many rival phones as possible.

[t0mat0]

It being May now, how much of a run up does Palm need in terms of announcing and releasing the Palm Pre? Any word on when they're looking at launching, and what levels?

Is it kind of strange that at the 11th hour, the spotlight is on the Eos so much?
Pre seems to perhaps be one of the first phone iPhone users would be really interesting in having a play with - even if there was no intention of buying one.

[DougB541]

i have no plans to buy a Palm Pre. To me, the company who makes and markets the phone is important. I am not impressed with Palm as a company and their execution. A one-hit wonder may be all fun and chic and cool, but then what? I doubt Palm has the capabilities to consistently come out with cool and new phones down the road.

Sadly, I think the Palm is just a victor of the online blog (which most gadgets become these days). All you need is a few blogs rave about a device, let it stew for a few months, and then people will just buy into it without actually knowing squat about the phone....

I think Palm will be in equals with android in the phone market and the sanyo music player in the mp3 market. aka popular with the apple-haters of the world.
Palm was amazing for a long time as a company but the last 2-3 years they slumped....but they also are under new leadership.

To then make out Palm to be an awful company is similar to writing off Apple at the end of the 90s.

Sometimes it takes new leadership to get a company back to where they were.

Hey, without Palm, there would have never been the Treo....what we all know as the first Smartphone.