Palm Pre Continues to Generate Interest at CTIA Mobile

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/02/palm-pre-continues-to-generate-interest-at-ctia-mobile/)

In the minds of many, the unreleased Palm Pre may be the biggest potential threat to Apple's growing iPhone marketshare. Announced at CES (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/09/palm-pre-smartphone-announced-webos-wireless-charging-app-store/), the Palm Pre is an entirely new platform developed by Palm to replace their long-running Palm OS.

The Palm Pre will be the first multi-touch mobile phone to be released following the iPhone. This fact has generated a number of veiled legal threats (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/22/tim-cook-apple-will-aggressively-protect-iphone-intellectual-property/) between the companies.

Palm was demonstrating the Palm Pre at CTIA Mobile this week. Computerworld provided (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9130976&source=rss_news) some early impressions: the webOS is layered to allow users to keep several applications open at once and to let them flip seamlessly between them. The Pre's main button at the bottom center of the device acts as an all-purpose "zoom out" button that shrinks applications in use and gives users the ability to browse through other apps. Although this sounds like it could be confusing, Palm has designed its operating system to make flipping through apps a breeze. Basically, users can flip through their open apps by moving their fingers from left to right -- or vice-versa -- along the phone's touch screen, just like flipping the pages of a book.

A promo video from Palm is also available showing the operating system in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waS1jKCrm5I

Meanwhile, Pre Central has an actual hands on (http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-3rd-party-app-video-walkthrough) video showing the operating system in real usage.

The Palm Pre uses the ARM Cortex A8 (not multicore) CPU and PowerVR SGX GPU, which are a step beyond the technology Apple currently has in the 3G iPhone. Apple has been rumored to be working on a major hardware refresh for the iPhone that is due this summer.


Article Link: Palm Pre Continues to Generate Interest at CTIA Mobile (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/02/palm-pre-continues-to-generate-interest-at-ctia-mobile/)

[WhySoSerious]

bring on the competition!!! this will only make the iphone that much stronger.

is it still set for april 30th as a release date?

[amac4me]

The Palm Pre sure does look nice.

[Consultant]

That's what they said about google android.
Surely it'll be the next i-killer...

Another view of the Pre
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/12/palm-pre-the-emperors-new-phone/

[drew0020]

The Palm Pre sure does look nice.

The O/S looks great. I dont like the look of the phone, but I cant wait to see one in person!

[twoodcc]

looking forward to apple's response to this

[Donz0r]

Apple needs to step it up. This thing is well rounded and has some really nice features that the iPhone lacks. 3.0 is a good start but it still is behind the webOS on the pre. I like virtual keyboard and more in depth apps though

[DoubleU]

Is there any news as to international carriers for the Pre? The iPhone is in a lot of countries now, so if isn't available outside the US before the 3.0 launch it might struggle to make iPhone killing headway.

[opeter]

Great! Fantastic piece of moder toy.

Hope that I can finally buy a modern smartphone in my country, since Apple doesn't sell i'ts phone here.

[Donz0r]

That's what they said about google android.
Surely it'll be the next i-killer...

Another view of the Pre
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/12/palm-pre-the-emperors-new-phone/


Android is rough and unpolished like a beta. This thing looks slick and finalized

[11800506]

Hopefully this will force Apple to release some sort of multitasking for the next iPhone instead of just Push Notifications.

[ziggyonice]

I really don't think it's that impressive. It does have a few features I'd like to see the iPhone adopt (e.g. multitasking), but at the same time it doesn't have the visual appeal or elegance the iPhone has come to be known for.

[Schizoid]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

[DoubleU]

That's what they said about google android.
Surely it'll be the next i-killer...

Another view of the Pre
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/12/palm-pre-the-emperors-new-phone/

To be honest although Android was touted as an iPhone killer I think it was always intended to be a Windows Mobile killer.

[swarmster]

If I can get it on my Sero plan, it's mine. I'm kind of psyched.

Of course, it will probably sit in the same pocket as my iPod touch, like my Centro does now.

I don't think anyone's calling this an iPhone "killer", anyway. RIM's shown that other phones can strongly co-exist with the iPhone. For one thing, the cell phone market in the US is way too fragmented for one phone to ever take over the entire thing. I'm sure not planning on switching to AT&T...ever...and even if you unlock the iPhone it doesn't have the hardware to work with anyone's network. So Pre for me.

[Mjmar]

This phone looks great. After watching the video though, I realized we that the iPhone can already do all those things. I happen to like the virtual keyboard better too (I know it's weird). This may be the first true iPhone competitor though. Bring it on palm! This summer's gonna be great phone wise.

[daverso]

The woman talking sounds akwardly seductive.

[gkarris]

Nice!

Can you sync with a Mac? (iTunes stuff, obviously, not, but your own CD/DVD rips and contacts/schedule?)

[Monty1]

Honestly, I laugh when people think that other smart phones will shake iPhone success. No matter what kind of capabilities a competing product has, it will not affect the common consumers mindset on what phone to purchase. The success of the iPhone was due to it utilizing the family of features that were out there in an easy to use interface before anyone else. Most importantly though, it holds the apple name and the 'prestige' the comes with it. I bet more than half iPhones users only care about this. Us geeks are the outliers, constantly looking for new features etc.

Thank you for reading my rant

[Mjmar]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

Haha! I noticed that too.

[Roessnakhan]

I look forward to getting a hands-on with the Pre, but I can't switch to Sprint, awful service here. I only switched from my T-Mobile iPhone 2G to an ATT iPhone 3G because ATT improved its signal greatly with the 3G's release.

[Alisstar]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

I was just going to say the same thing! Why wouldn't they show this?

[kinless]

Seeing as how I refuse to leave Sprint and my legacy $40 voice/data plan (I've never had signal issues where I'm at) I've got my sights set on this phone the day it's released.

I just hope Sprint doesn't force you to one of their expensive "Anything" plans or I'll just be forced to stick with my 755p, however badly it's aging.

[ghostface147]

I think the Pre is not going to be the so-called iPhone killer, but it will get a market share that perhaps people aren't expecting. It looks great, OS looks great and has a lot of buzz. All they need is a solid price point, solid release and a smooth ecosystem. I may ditch my iPhone for the Pre once we get our 2 allotted test phones and run it through it's paces.

[ipoppy]

I really don't think it's that impressive. It does have a few features I'd like to see the iPhone adopt (e.g. multitasking), but at the same time it doesn't have the visual appeal or elegance the iPhone has come to be known for.

Yeap...can't agree on that more:D


Honestly, I laugh when people think that other smart phones will shake iPhone success. No matter what kind of capabilities a competing product has, it will not affect the common consumers mindset on what phone to purchase. The success of the iPhone was due to it utilizing the family of features that were out there in an easy to use interface before anyone else. Most importantly though, it holds the apple name and the 'prestige' the comes with it. I bet more than half iPhones users only care about this. Us geeks are the outliers, constantly looking for new features etc.

Thank you for reading my rant

...and that even better.

This Palm look like windows for me ...so its fu**ed in my eyes already.:rolleyes:

[str1f3]

the two things that i wish apple would do to the iphone:

-better integration with 3rd party apss and their own (i.e.. fandango)
-adopt the round corners the pre has in their apps (superficial yes i know)

If you watch the precentral video, it looks like the pre is getting more sluggish. The fandango app is the perfect example of the intergration with calendar that i mainly like about the Pre. Apple should really be doing the same thing.

[BornAgainMac]

I wish my Macbook Pro sounded like her. I would use the built-in speech more. The Palm Pre looks pretty good.

[ivladster]

I don't think its anything near what iPhone is, but its a good addition to the family of smartphones. I think generally public is moving away from usual phone and getting into the smartphones types.

Pre is not iPhone killer, is more like Blackberry Killer or Windows Mobile.

[gkarris]

I hear the president of Palm is sort of a stuck-up and he's going to price this for $399 fully subsidized... :eek:

Not in today's economy...

[str1f3]

I hear the president of Palm is sort of a stuck-up and he's going to price this for $399 fully subsidized... :eek:

Not in today's economy...


I'd seriously doubt that it will be $399 for a 8gb phone from a company on it's deathbed. That's suicide. A 32gb iphone for the same price would be out at that time.

[w00master]

For me, iPhone 3.0 brings nearly everything I need to a phone. Except for a few things:

1. Better notification system - IMHO, the current iPhone notification system is absolutely terrible. With push notifications coming, I really hope in the near future Apple changes their notification strategy. I hope they go with how either the Palm Pre or Android does their notifications - very well done, imho.

2. REAL Multitasking - I think this is an eventuality, so I can be patient on this one. Push notifications (for the most part) should cover around 70% of my needs. It's just the notification thing that needs to be adjusted (see point #1).

3. Better home screen organization - a form of stacks? Categories? Anything? It's getting a bit out of hand.

w00master

[anubis]

I'm impressed by the video. Palm is going to sell a lot of these things. I wish they had shown the web browser in action, since that's the "app" i use most often and is the most important app on a smartphone, imho

[Goona]

Android is rough and unpolished like a beta. This thing looks slick and finalized

You need to pray Palm is around.

[MarkMS]

If anything is going to give Apple a run for its money, it will be the Pre. The BB Storm and Android G1 were nice, but they just don't cut it. Can't wait until the Pre makes its debut on GSM networks. Hopefully it will be soon or I'm switching to Sprint.

[LukeW16]

The interface looked a little choppy at places. Or is that just me?

[str1f3]

Android is rough and unpolished like a beta. This thing looks slick and finalized

Have you seen the palmcentral video? That thing looks sluggish. There were constant re-tapping of buttons and very slow to load apps. Not to mention also that when playing movie trailers, the edges of the video were cut off because of the rounded screen which makes it not too good for watching shows or movies.

The Pre has some nice things in it but it is clear that:
a) The device is not ready because it is too slow
or
b)The OS is going to be that sluggish with all the background apps.

[leandromp]

The woman talking sounds akwardly seductive.

3 things:

1. Hahah i know! Terrible voice for this!

2. The interface of the palm looks awesome, i love it. Much better then the iPhone.

3. How did she wrote the email?

[dtich]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

NO SH**T!! i thought the same thing! this is a total mockup, not at all the real thing in action, they made a video and put voice over to it. not nearly the same as an 'operating system in action'.

i am proud of palm for jumping in both feet, and the os looks very promising, i hope they are honest about completely ripping off the iphone os - which is fine - iphone os is a really strong super well thought out platform. and certainly apple learned from palm in the early days as well...

but, there is no way this works like the video, keyboard issues, network, processing, etc etc, all taken out of the equation in this mockup. this is a concept presentation and nothing more if you ask me. so, fine.

and my bet is iphone os will have multi-tasking/threading with the next hardware rev. i'm way in line for that.

:)

[mlmorg]

The interface looked a little choppy at places. Or is that just me?

I agree...but the iPhone has that too.

[DELLsFan]

Competition! That's how Apple will lower prices and innovate (moreso than they do now).

Throw as much money as you want to Apple and they will spend some for R&D and improve existing products, yes. However, there's nothing quite like the fire of legitimate competition burning your profit away from your shareholders to motivate those suits and lab coats.

I hope Palm sells millions of these.

:apple:

[G4R2]

From what I've seen the Palm Pre seems to have several nice features with a handful of deficiencies, not unlike any other phone on the market including the iPhone.

Unfortunately, while the product seems appealing and innovative I have serious doubts about the company. I say this as someone who owned a Pilot before they were available on the market and had the US Robotics label still fresh on it. Whereas Apple has rolled out a series of frequent improvements not only for the iPhone but for the majority of its products (with some sad exceptions) Palm has been unable to upgrade their OS since I had the last cool Palm OS handheld, the Sony NR-70 (a very cool form factor).

I can't speak for anyone else, but for Palm to win me back as a customer two things need to happen. First, Palm needs to prove that it can update their products and improve them reliably. And secondly, Apple has to really, really, really screw it up. I'm willing to give Apple as much of a benefit of the doubt as I gave Palm back when I used one of their devices so having me migrate back to their OS is not something I will take lightly. Apple has a long way to go before it screws up as badly Palm did and to exhaust my patience and expectations.

[Hawkeye411]

What kind of interface does it use to enter text??

Does anybody know??

[TheSlush]

Ultrayawn.

An inferior product with an inferior supporting ecosystem arriving in the middle of a global economic downturn.

Yeah. iPhone killer. Sure.

[Mjmar]

Actually, now that I've watched the precentral video, the phone looks kinda sluggish and less easy to use than I thought. It's pretty ugly too. What's with the rounded edges of the screen! Maybe It'll be better before release. :rolleyes:

[TheOrioles33]

I like it and would get it if I was on Sprints network which,thank god, I'm not! I WILL NEVER GIVE UP MY IPHONE! :)

[westernmass]

Haha! I noticed that too.

a little unrealistic as far as the typing. wouldn't it have to be horizontal to type not vertical. looks interesting but I will never leave my iPhone. I have had to much kool aid and like it :)

[slffl]

I have to say, if I was a flaming anti-Apple zealot like all of the nerds on Engadget, Gizmodo, and Digg, I would definitely be getting the Pre. I still hate physical keyboards on phones though.

[Penguinwrangler]

I was just going to say the same thing! Why wouldn't they show this?

Because when you actually try to type on the small keyboard that slides out on the bottom, the screen goes wobbling around like a tetherball on a schoolyard. The thing is terribly balanced.

[stainlessliquid]

Its in a different league than the iphone, but I dont think it is a "competitor" since its on a different carrier. Apple would be in trouble if it was on ATT, but its not. Also it has to be priced for the MAINSTREAM to have even the slightest effect for Sprint, not the rich, if Sprint lets them charge $600-800 then they just wasted millions on a useless exclusivity contract.

I think apple's only advantage over this thing is the app store, I doubt palm has an answer to that. Still, the pre kicks the iphones ass so hard in other categories that it probably doesnt matter.

[dewser35]

From what I've seen the Palm Pre seems to have several nice features with a handful of deficiencies, not unlike any other phone on the market including the iPhone.

Unfortunately, while the product seems appealing and innovative I have serious doubts about the company. I say this as someone who owned a Pilot before they were available on the market and had the US Robotics label still fresh on it. Whereas Apple has rolled out a series of frequent improvements not only for the iPhone but for the majority of its products (with some sad exceptions) Palm has been unable to upgrade their OS since I had the last cool Palm OS handheld, the Sony NR-70 (a very cool form factor).

I can't speak for anyone else, but for Palm to win me back as a customer two things need to happen. First, Palm needs to prove that it can update their products and improve them reliably. And secondly, Apple has to really, really, really screw it up. I'm willing to give Apple as much of a benefit of the doubt as I gave Palm back when I used one of their devices so having me migrate back to their OS is not something I will take lightly. Apple has a long way to go before it screws up as badly Palm did and to exhaust my patience and expectations.

Right on... although it may take defectors a few iterations of the iPhone to realize this.

[stockscalper]

Fat little thing isn't? So a fat little phone with a squeaky, rattling keyboard that slides out with buttons too small for the average male finger is supposed to be the iPhone Killer? Give me a break!

Wait til the new iPhone comes out in its thinner profile, 3.0 multitasking software and the Pre is going to get blown out of the water before it even realizes it's hit the water.

[JetStar]

What kind of interface does it use to enter text??

Does anybody know??

It has a slide out physical keyboard.
I'm not sure if it also has a virtual one.

[zombitronic]

I don't know any non-tech people who know what a Pre is. On the other hand, everyone knows what an iPhone is.

The Pre looks decent, but they don't have the consumer status that Apple has. I don't think it will be the "savior phone" that Palm needs to survive.

[Unspeaked]

Its in a different league than the iphone, but I dont think it is a "competitor" since its on a different carrier. Apple would be in trouble if it was on ATT, but its not. Also it has to be priced for the MAINSTREAM to have even the slightest effect for Sprint, not the rich, if Sprint lets them charge $600-800 then they just wasted millions on a useless exclusivity contract.

That's the beauty of it, though - Sprint only has a 90 day contract on it.

After that, it will certainly go to Verizon (it being a CDMA phone and all). So they'll have opened themselves up to a HUGE potential market.

And I can't imagine they're not already working on (or at least considering) a version for T-Mobile and AT&T.

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm interested to see if any legal fights come out of this. We will see soon enough and who knows if Apple has something spectacular waiting for the next generation of the iPhone.

[kkat69]

Looks like the VOX communicator from Galaxy Quest :D:D:D

[Matthew Yohe]

Not sure why you are all confused regarding how she typed out her email... The pre has a physical keyboard you know. This was just a mockup anyway.

[Sky Blue]

Seeing as how I refuse to leave Sprint and my legacy $40 voice/data plan (I've never had signal issues where I'm at) I've got my sights set on this phone the day it's released.

I just hope Sprint doesn't force you to one of their expensive "Anything" plans or I'll just be forced to stick with my 755p, however badly it's aging.

they do. They won't let you keep your old plan.

[Digitalclips]

Not sure why you are all confused regarding how she typed out her email... The pre has a physical keyboard you know. This was just a mockup anyway.

Physical Keyboard eh? Wow, how 'retro'!

[xhambonex]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm interested to see if any legal fights come out of this. We will see soon enough and who knows if Apple has something spectacular waiting for the next generation of the iPhone.

why legal fights, they clearly put together a competitive os, apple needs to respond with something better not iphone os 3.whatever

[the vj]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

Same as the above...

Despite, am I going to sound like a girl too if I get one?

[xhambonex]

Physical Keyboard eh? Wow, how 'retro'!

not at all, look at a blackberry bold, i don't think thats very retro, and not to mention this phone looks really good. Oh and qwerty keyboards are faster and more accurate and some people just like them.

[Voidness]

Palm Pre looks very promising. But I really wonder how well it's going to do in practice, when it's in people's hands.

Its main advantage over the iPhone is that it allows third-party applications to run in the background. But how many applications is it going to allow? What happens when it's pushed to its limit? We'll have to wait and see.

[polaris20]

bring on the competition!!! this will only make the iphone that much stronger.

is it still set for april 30th as a release date?

Absolutely. Competition is good, and having used WM6.1 and Blackberry, there currently isn't a lot of competition for the iPhone, IMO.

This however looks quite nice.

[ThunderSkunk]

What a strange video. A mumbling, ADD-addled narrator. I wasn't sure if she was trying to pitch the device or seduce it.

Looks like a nice device. The clarity of the iphone still makes it seem sharper & crisper, regardless of features.

3.0 had better pack a punch.

[stainlessliquid]

Physical Keyboard eh? Wow, how 'retro'!

you mean 'easy to use'?

[zap2]

give me GSM or give me death!


Well not really, but until the Pre does 3G GSM for US, I'm not sold

[slffl]

not at all, look at a blackberry bold, i don't think thats very retro, and not to mention this phone looks really good. Oh and qwerty keyboards are faster and more accurate and some people just like them.

Faster and more accurate FOR SOME! I type A LOT faster on the iPhone keyboard then I ever did on my Treos, T9 phone, or Sidekick.

[francoliu]

the Pre looks great -- but Apple has such a HUGE advantage in that the iPod already has infiltrated the whole target population, which means that 99% of the people who might buy the Pre already have had an iPod and are used to iTunes. There is no mainstream program out there that runs as well as iTunes in terms of getting everything you want onto your phone as well as being a great app on your computer. iTunes is such a huge advantage that I wonder whether any other phone will be anything but a niche competitor as long as the hardware and UI is comparable. The people on this forum may feel comfortable playing with various programs to get media onto their phones, but most consumers would rather just hook their iPhone into iTunes, sync all their media and apps, and then go.

[powers74]

The Pre looks like it will be a great product, and I think competition is great for this and any industry. However, the reason this and all other "iPhone killers" fight an uphill battle against the Apple device is one reason and one reason alone. Advertising. Apple is the only company who was able to stand up to the mobile people and demand the right to advertise their own device. all the other manufacturers just lay down and let the carriers do the bulk of the marketing which they do about as well as the fast food and cruise industries; badly. Nothing against the Pre (not that I plan on getting one either) but it's going to have a rough time of it, left to lukewarm advertising by Sprint and the like.

^^Yeah, and that little iTunes thing...

[zombitronic]

apple needs to respond with something better not iphone os 3.whatever

I guess you should apply for a job with Apple and make something better.

[scottness]

Hopefully this will force Apple to release some sort of multitasking for the next iPhone instead of just Push Notifications.

That would be the best outcome of the introduction of the pre. Def need backgrounding.

[polaris20]

Faster and more accurate FOR SOME! I type A LOT faster on the iPhone keyboard then I ever did on my Treos, T9 phone, or Sidekick.

I agree, the physical vs. on screen keyboard is largely personal preference. I have both a BB Curve and an iPod Touch, and believe it or not I like the Touch better for typing.

[ggt]

For me, iPhone 3.0 brings nearly everything I need to a phone. Except for a few things:

1. Better notification system - IMHO, the current iPhone notification system is absolutely terrible. With push notifications coming, I really hope in the near future Apple changes their notification strategy. I hope they go with how either the Palm Pre or Android does their notifications - very well done, imho.

2. REAL Multitasking - I think this is an eventuality, so I can be patient on this one. Push notifications (for the most part) should cover around 70% of my needs. It's just the notification thing that needs to be adjusted (see point #1).

3. Better home screen organization - a form of stacks? Categories? Anything? It's getting a bit out of hand.

w00master

Couldn't agree more

[Koola]

Want!

Looks set to replace my HTC Touch HD and be good competition for the iPhone.

[inkswamp]

looking forward to apple's response to this

Give me a single example of Apple directly responding to any competitor's product? They don't ever do that. They just set their course and go. I never understand these "Wow, this will really get Apple's butt in gear" comments because a) Apple's butt is already in high gear as it is and b) Apple doesn't seem to give a rip what others are doing. If that were the case, we would have had copy-and-paste in the iPhone from the start. We would have had DRM-free music in iTunes a couple years ago.

Apple has consistently followed their own compass and not shown any worry about getting bogged down matching features with the wannabes.

[slapppy]

bring on the competition!!! this will only make the iphone that much stronger.

is it still set for april 30th as a release date?

LOL... the iPhone is the same with just a bigger capacity. Looks like Palm has overtaking the iPhone in less than 2 years. So much for that 5 years ahead of the competition. :rolleyes:

[macornomac]

I have the old Sero which is $28 a month after taxes for 500 mins unlimited everything. I've been eyeing this phone but don't want to change the sero plan if it's now allowed on that plan. My suspicion is that it will not be allowed on it and I have to get the SEP which is 99 bucks. I also have been thinking of caving in and getting an iphone. With the FAN discounts I could get it with the cheapest plan at least 65 bucks maybe. So we'll see.

[MacVixen]

That's the beauty of it, though - Sprint only has a 90 day contract on it.

After that, it will certainly go to Verizon (it being a CDMA phone and all). So they'll have opened themselves up to a HUGE potential market.

And I can't imagine they're not already working on (or at least considering) a version for T-Mobile and AT&T.

Really? Only a 90 day exclusivity contract for Sprint? Why would they even agree to something like that? :confused:

I agree that moving over to Verizon would open up a huge market for the Pre, but I'm just not sure what Sprint has gained from this deal. If I were considering a Pre, I would just wait for it to come to Verizon, especially if it's only a 90 day wait.

[chr1s60]

I think this is the first real competition for the iPhone. The Pre really does look like a nice phone. Of course, it will come down to how the phone actually performs once the final version is released, but it looks promising. I can say that if there was one phone out there right now that I would switch with my iPhone, the Pre is probably that phone. Then again, I am basing that off never seeing the phone in person or using it, so that could always change.

[Slim02]

It is funny. I keep hearing competition coming out of peoples mouths.. But seeing that the iPhone can sync up to both Windows and OS X.. No other smart phone can do that.. You have to do it yourself and that is a pain in the butt.. Also the Palm Pre is using Outlook for it email program.. That is one of the worries mail program to use for emails... I sorry but I see another failure coming..

[Digitalclips]

you mean 'easy to use'?

Nope, I mean retro.

[FullGaz]

I like the Pre. You can feel that the phone's applications are well integrated with each other, communicate with each other in a more fluent way, with a better flow of information. For instance, calendar events have attendees that you can find in your contacts - they are the same, not copy of the existing information.
The pre also has a very clever way to start new or switch between opened applications, something that the iPhone cannot do (not 'opened' applications).
Worth mentioning: no save button needed when you enter data (notes, address book...).
That global search is great, let's see how the iPhone 3.0's spotlight compares in terms of ease of use.
Of course, a lot of the UI has been borrowed from the iPhone, because it's already so good. However, it's been substantially improved in some areas.

In summary, the Pre focuses on the information whereas the iPhone has so far focused on the applications. It focuses on the user whereas the iPhone has so far focused on the device. The Pre will be a device you like to use whereas the iPhone is a device you want to use (for some it's difficult to see the difference :D)

In my opinion, this new device will give the iPhone a run for its money.
A long, fast, competitive run. And that's good news :cool: .

[xhambonex]

I guess you should apply for a job with Apple and make something better.

no thanks, i hear jobs sucks to work for. and i don't do programming. Though they are a great company, I think they take these OS's for the iphone and leave things out just so they can update it with ooo spotlight, and copy and paste. That could have all been done in the second version.

I guess my point is I want them to continue to progress the technology and the hardware they make. And I don't like that they have kept features out of their OS just to "update" a new version with features that should have always been there. Palm's new OS is something different, apple should respond with bigger changes than just copy and paste.

[EagerDragon]

I have an iPhone, not sure I really care what Palm comes up with.
Competition is good, maybe Apple will finaly add the features people been asking for the last 2 years.

Yes I know iPhone 3.0 is coming and it has a lot of features that were missing in the original iPhone and iPhone 3G, but as of yet I have not heard anything about vioce dialing and a front camera to do iChat is not a sure thing in the next model of the iPhone.

[DoubleU]

I'd like to see finished a Pre before I make any comments about it's ease of use or functionality. The iPhone that Steve Jobs demo'ed looked a bit better than the first gen iPhone that was released.

Also some 'basic' features that some people assumed would come with the 'phone weren't there. So I'll suspend comparisons until I get to try it out.

[j26]

It is funny. I keep hearing competition coming out of peoples mouths.. But seeing that the iPhone can sync up to both Windows and OS X.. No other smart phone can do that..

Huh??? :confused:

My N95 can do that.

I like the look of this phone. I don't know how well it will go - Nokia is gearing up on the touchscreen stuff.

[dernhelm]

LOL... the iPhone is the same with just a bigger capacity. Looks like Palm has overtaking the iPhone in less than 2 years. So much for that 5 years ahead of the competition. :rolleyes:

Pre doesn't exist yet. When it does, we'll see how far "ahead" it is. We'll also see if they've violated any patents to do it. But even if their hardware does look good, they've still got a while to catch up from an App Store perspective. That more than half the equation when you're talking about a smartphone.

Regardless, 5 years is nearly and eternity in the computer industry. Nobody is 5 years ahead of anybody, ever. 2 years is a big enough lead to lock up a huge chunk of the market.

no thanks, i hear jobs sucks to work for. and i don't do programming. Though they are a great company, I think they take these OS's for the iphone and leave things out just so they can update it with ooo spotlight, and copy and paste. That could have all been done in the second version.

I guess my point is I want them to continue to progress the technology and the hardware they make. And I don't like that they have kept features out of their OS just to "update" a new version with features that should have always been there. Palm's new OS is something different, apple should respond with bigger changes than just copy and paste.

And you are basing this opinion on what exactly? You don't program, yet you think you know enough about Apple's dev process that you just KNOW that they held back features that could easily have made it in? I am a programmer, and I have no idea why copy and paste didn't make it in earlier, but I assure you that there was a better reason than what you are suggesting. And you may want to watch the presentation again. There were a few additional things (like push notification) that were rolled out beyond copy and paste. Copy and paste was hardly the headliner of the release.

[Slim02]

Huh??? :confused:

My N95 can do that.

I like the look of this phone. I don't know how well it will go - Nokia is gearing up on the touchscreen stuff.

So your telling me that your phone came with software that can work with both OS X and Windows? Can you prove it with a link or the name of the phone..

[riversky]

Palm said that Sprint has a 90day (3-month) exclusive. Probably to ramp up production and figure out usage.

After that I expect Verizon to have this by November.

[dicklacara]

I really don't think it's that impressive. It does have a few features I'd like to see the iPhone adopt (e.g. multitasking), but at the same time it doesn't have the visual appeal or elegance the iPhone has come to be known for.

It appears to me that it isn't really multitasking-- the guy demoing always said that the app was paused, when he went to a new app.

Kind'a like Andy Hertzfelds "Switcher" on early Macs, where:

1) the app was paused
2) its status, display, etc was saved
3) it was switched out of memory
4) control was given to the new app

then, the process reversed to fast-resume the "switched-out" app.

Later, Apple called this "pseudo" or "co-operative" multitasking.

It is somewhat similar to switching between tabs on a browser.

If this is, in fact, what they are doing-- it should not to too difficult to accomplish on the iPhone OS or Android (or any other capable OS).

[GimmeSlack12]

LOL... the iPhone is the same with just a bigger capacity. Looks like Palm has overtaking the iPhone in less than 2 years. So much for that 5 years ahead of the competition. :rolleyes:

Seems like iTunes just is never factored into the equation on this sort of thing. And it really should be. The iPhone/iTunes relationship makes the iPhone such a strong device that any competition cannot simply come at you with a flashy phone and expect to be an equal.

Apple's Phone/Computer relationship is just too strong. It makes up for any shortcomings of the iPhone's hardware.

[miggitymac]

Also the Palm Pre is using Outlook for it email program.. That is one of the worries mail program to use for emails...

Outlook is probably the most commonly used mail program for people who work in an office...i.e. ppl who make money...i.e. ppl who companies try to market to.

Even if these same people don't like Outlook, their workplaces often force them to use it...so for them, it might be a convenient thing to have it on a phone.

EDIT: And if you really hate Outlook, it's not like they're forcing you to use it....there's always web-based email...

[j26]

So your telling me that your phone came with software that can work with both OS X and Windows? Can you prove it with a link or the name of the phone..

It's a Nokia N95 8gb - but I'm sure any Nokia Smartphone is the same.

On the mac side, a simple plugin (http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/isync/compatibility-and-download) allows you to use iSync to sync iCal and AddressBook, and Nokia Multimedia Transfer for music, video and photos. Then there's Maploader for loading maps to the gps, but it's a bit poo, so I have my own methods of doing that. (It can all be done by Bluetooth btw)

On the Windows side there's the Nokia Suite which does all that.

[srl7741]

Competition is always good and will only make the iPhone better in the future.
I can't wait to use a Palm Pre. Till I can touch it and use it I won't know for sure how I feel about it. Either way It won't change my mind about using the iPhone.

[Slim02]

It's a Nokia N95 8gb - but I'm sure any Nokia Smartphone is the same.

On the mac side, a simple plugin (http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/isync/compatibility-and-download) allows you to use iSync to sync iCal and AddressBook, and Nokia Multimedia Transfer for music, video and photos. Then there's Maploader for loading maps to the gps, but it's a bit poo, so I have my own methods of doing that. (It can all be done by Bluetooth btw)

On the Windows side there's the Nokia Suite which does all that.

You just prove me right.. The phone works best when you are on Windows then On a Mac.. Why because it was built to work on windows not Mac.. Yes you can use 3rd party programs but it not the same as having made to work from the ground up as the iPhone and even the iPod.. The iPhone is a true device that can work with the same software no matter if you using a Mac or Windows..

[miggitymac]

Competition is always good and will only make the iPhone better in the future.
I can't wait to use a Palm Pre. Till I can touch it and use it I won't know for sure how I feel about it. Either way It won't change my mind about using the iPhone.

Many people probably had the same thoughts towards iphones..."looks nice...but it won't change my mind about using my BB"..

At least, that's what I thought before I got mine...:p

[beg_ne]

no thanks, i hear jobs sucks to work for. and i don't do programming. Though they are a great company, I think they take these OS's for the iphone and leave things out just so they can update it with ooo spotlight, and copy and paste. That could have all been done in the second version.

I guess my point is I want them to continue to progress the technology and the hardware they make. And I don't like that they have kept features out of their OS just to "update" a new version with features that should have always been there. Palm's new OS is something different, apple should respond with bigger changes than just copy and paste.

Can you please not comment on this that you know absolutely nothing about? You are extremely clueless on the amount of time and work it takes to make things happen.

Spotlight could not have been done in iPhone OS 2.0 because it uses an API (Core Data) to pull in the data, that did not exist until 3.0. It took a lot of work to get Core Data working in a manner that was suitable for the iPhone hardware. For most of the features Apple has to make to put in the iPhone they also have to make an API for that for 3rd party developers to use, it all takes time and a lot of hard to do properly.

And incase your head was up your ass the last month, Apple has made lots of changes to the new version, over 1,000 new API's so its not "just copy and paste".

[BongoBanger]

I'll try it out. If it's better than the iPhone or the N97 I'll get one, if not I won't.

Simple really.

[chameleon81]

How does she type ? I didnt see any virtual keyboard

[dewser35]

I like the Pre. You can feel that the phone's applications are well integrated with each other, communicate with each other in a more fluent way, with a better flow of information. For instance, calendar events have attendees that you can find in your contacts - they are the same, not copy of the existing information..

I just looked up a meeting that I accepted ON my iphone and looked at the attendees... if they were in my address book to begin with, their contact information comes up... the same information that is on my phone... not a copy.

[Donz0r]

I like the Pre. You can feel that the phone's applications are well integrated with each other, communicate with each other in a more fluent way, with a better flow of information. For instance, calendar events have attendees that you can find in your contacts - they are the same, not copy of the existing information.
The pre also has a very clever way to start new or switch between opened applications, something that the iPhone cannot do (not 'opened' applications).
Worth mentioning: no save button needed when you enter data (notes, address book...).
That global search is great, let's see how the iPhone 3.0's spotlight compares in terms of ease of use.
Of course, a lot of the UI has been borrowed from the iPhone, because it's already so good. However, it's been substantially improved in some areas.

In summary, the Pre focuses on the information whereas the iPhone has so far focused on the applications. It focuses on the user whereas the iPhone has so far focused on the device. The Pre will be a device you like to use whereas the iPhone is a device you want to use (for some it's difficult to see the difference :D)

In my opinion, this new device will give the iPhone a run for its money.
A long, fast, competitive run. And that's good news :cool: .


I completely agree. The webOS integrates all your contact information seamlessly (facebook messages, facebook IM, AIM, SMS messages, E-mail, phone, etc.) You make a fandango appointment and it adds it to the calander, etc. All of the apps communicate with each other, which is something the iPhone does NOT do nearly as well. Not to mention background processing.

Also, the demo unit is laggy because it's still in development - just like the iPhone 3.0 software is laggy and buggy.

I don't know any non-tech people who know what a Pre is. On the other hand, everyone knows what an iPhone is.

The Pre looks decent, but they don't have the consumer status that Apple has. I don't think it will be the "savior phone" that Palm needs to survive.

... the iPhone has been out for almost 2 years, the Pre doesn't even have a launch date yet. I'm sure people will know about it once the commercials start showing up - just like with the iPhone

[Unspeaked]

Really? Only a 90 day exclusivity contract for Sprint? Why would they even agree to something like that? :confused:

I agree that moving over to Verizon would open up a huge market for the Pre, but I'm just not sure what Sprint has gained from this deal. If I were considering a Pre, I would just wait for it to come to Verizon, especially if it's only a 90 day wait.

Like Apple with AT&T, neither Palm nor Sprint have been very open about the nature of their contract, but most of the reliable sources I've read seem to think it's 3 months, and even the lengthiest guesses I've seen say the exclusive will only run through the end of 2009.

In fact, this (http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/palm-pre-umts) report claims Palm is already working on the GSM version of the Pre in hopes to have it ready for Christmas.

[BongoBanger]

You just prove me right.. The phone works best when you are on Windows then On a Mac.. Why because it was built to work on windows not Mac.. Yes you can use 3rd party programs but it not the same as having made to work from the ground up as the iPhone and even the iPod.. The iPhone is a true device that can work with the same software no matter if you using a Mac or Windows..

I don't think you understand: iSync was written by Apple, not Nokia. Nokia provide device specific plug-ins where required.

http://europe.nokia.com/A4299040

[statik13]

Palm was a classic of its time. Any company that can manage to withstand a direct assault from Microsoft (windows mobile vs Palm OS) as long as Palm did deserves respect!

Can't wait to see how this one turns out.

[airlights]

This phone is too cute. <3

[Unspeaked]

This phone is too cute. <3

Just wait until they offer it in colors...

[stainlessliquid]

You just prove me right.. The phone works best when you are on Windows then On a Mac.. Why because it was built to work on windows not Mac.. Yes you can use 3rd party programs but it not the same as having made to work from the ground up as the iPhone and even the iPod.. The iPhone is a true device that can work with the same software no matter if you using a Mac or Windows..

What? Havent you used it in Windows? The way it syncs in Windows is a joke. In OS X its good, all the apps have built in functionality and you dont have to do anything special, in Windows you have to open up itunes to blindly sync things and hope it works (which isnt often), you have no control over anything, its a scary experience since it might delete things. Its so crappy that I dont bother using it in windows except for music. Its not even close to being as good in Windows as it is in OS X.

[bruinsrme]

You need to pray Palm is around.

yes indeed. The short time I have been arond here it seems a lot of people feel apple seem to be very conservative until push comes to shove.

Whether or not the Pre is a shove is yet to be seen but it seems to have awaken the designers at apple to perhaps give their iphone customers more of what the ones paying their salaries want instead of the ones getting paid to give us what they think we need

[j26]

You just prove me right.. The phone works best when you are on Windows then On a Mac.. Why because it was built to work on windows not Mac.. Yes you can use 3rd party programs but it not the same as having made to work from the ground up as the iPhone and even the iPod.. The iPhone is a true device that can work with the same software no matter if you using a Mac or Windows..
:confused::confused::confused: Your original assertion was
But seeing that the iPhone can sync up to both Windows and OS X.. No other smart phone can do that..

You seem to be trying to redefine your question to hide the fact that your assertion was WRONG.(I'd add flashy lights if I could)
And I hardly think of software written by the phone manufacturer to be third party - by definition they are party to the syncing process. It's just that bit more fluid with the iPhone because the phone manufacturer and the computer manufacturer are the same.

[catracho]

I don´t have an Iphone but I have an iTouch.

I will not deny that i will wait to see the new iPhone and if I the Pre is good enought for me, I am going to buy it.

[Donz0r]

The only things holding me back from the Pre:

$$$ already spent on iPhone apps
the iPhone has a far superior music player
Sprint
Virtual Keyboard > Physical Keyboard for me

[brad2610]

my one wish from this......Wish I could do other things while listening to Pandora.

_____________________
www.bradross.net
Creative Journalistic Modern
Wedding Photography

[Randman]

I hope the Pre is a solid contender as that'll keep Apple on the ball and working to improve the iPhone. That said, come 3.0, it'll be hard for any phone to knock it off the top of the smartphone hill.

[xhambonex]

Can you please not comment on this that you know absolutely nothing about? You are extremely clueless on the amount of time and work it takes to make things happen.

Spotlight could not have been done...took a lot of hard work.

And incase your head was up your ass the last month, Apple has made lots of changes to the new version, over 1,000 new API's so its not "just copy and paste".

Good for palm. I hope this phone inspires apple to continue to progress their products to a higher level. I'm glad to see the apple's presence in the producing better products from all manufactures. I like the look of it, but I don't think its going to hold up against the iphone. Just look at what he said, just remember that the big thing I wanted to see was the push notification system. And how well that will work.

[Hattig]

no thanks, i hear jobs sucks to work for. and i don't do programming. Though they are a great company, I think they take these OS's for the iphone and leave things out just so they can update it with ooo spotlight, and copy and paste. That could have all been done in the second version.

Yes, you clearly don't do programming, you haven't got the faintest clue that programming takes skill and time, and that's why these features took so long to get onto the iPhone OS.

I would say that Apple didn't want to do a Windows Mobile and not do things right from the start just to have a feature tick, like all those other phones do that are hard to use. In the long run Apple's lack of features early on will be totally meaningless because they're there now or soon.

As for multitasking, people here seem to think that keeping the main CPU on at all times running applications doesn't use up battery life. Apple's notification system will run on the baseband CPU which listens for specially formatted text messages (just like Blackberry) for notifications, allowing the main system to sleep and preserve battery.

However I would like it so that when the system is actually being used, applications can be moved to the background temporarily but still run (memory permitting), because the main CPU isn't sleeping then so the battery life issues aren't so worrisome.

Also, I would like to say that I think the Pre has decent hardware and a decent grounding for an operating system, but there are clear problems with the OS - no native applications (yet), apps are widgets that run in the browser using HTML5 local storage, etc. Neat, yes. I bet the iPhone's Safari will be able to do this as well soon enough too. However Palm's solution isn't so hot for native 3D games, etc, like the iPhone. It all depends on how good Palm's SDK will be down the line, and I don't think it will be able to match Apple (or Microsoft).

[Sebby]

I really don't think Apple has anything to be afraid of. The iPhone isn't (and probably never will be) the most advanced in terms of technology, but that's not what it's about, and that's why it's a winner.

[jaw04005]

Can you sync with a Mac? (iTunes stuff, obviously, not, but your own CD/DVD rips and contacts/schedule?)

It doesn't desktop sync period. They made a big point about that during CES. It only syncs to the "web" (Facebook, etc). If you don't keep your personal info in the "cloud," this phone isn't for you.

There will be an SD media slot. Therefore you should be able to drag music, pictures and videos to it manually. Although, they haven't been playing up its media playback capabilities. It's not even listed as a feature on their web page.

http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/

[gerbilboy]

The pre looks good but the next iphone will destroy it. (most probably)

btw

That woman's voice is super annoying! I couldn't watch the whole video.

[xhambonex]

yes indeed. The short time I have been arond here it seems a lot of people feel apple seem to be very conservative until push comes to shove.

Whether or not the Pre is a shove is yet to be seen but it seems to have awaken the designers at apple to perhaps give their iphone customers more of what the ones paying their salaries want instead of the ones getting paid to give us what they think we need

what he said...apple can do better, I want to see better.

[GimmeSlack12]

It doesn't desktop sync period. They made a big point about that during CES. It only syncs to the "web" (Facebook, etc).

Exactly, see my post #92. A flashy gadget cannot, alone, be an iPhone killer. You need both an iPhone and iTunes killer.

[rish]

The woman talking sounds akwardly seductive.

Overtly seductive. You are spot on. I'm looking forwards to the response to this ad. Clearly it's aimed at a certain kind of person hence the seductiveness. :apple:

[markm49uk]

I'm surprised at how people can compare what is seen in this video to what is actually available on the iPhone - this looks entirely like a mock-up. No delays for network latency, no actual input of text via a keyboard of any type, no details on the 'multitasking' capability which like was mentioned in an earlier thread looks more like cooperative task management - not true preemptive multitasking.

I think many people will be disappointed when they actually get their hands on one on these units.

[Hattig]

I don´t have an Iphone but I have an iTouch.

What's an "iTouch"? Is that the hardware that catches fire in nylon pant pockets?

[GimmeSlack12]

I'm surprised at how people can compare what is seen in this video to what is actually available on the iPhone - this looks entirely like a mock-up. No delays for network latency, no actual input of text via a keyboard of any type, no details on the 'multitasking' capability which like was mentioned in an earlier thread looks more like cooperative task management - not true preemptive multitasking.

I think many people will be disappointed when they actually get their hands on one on these units.

I take all comments here with the preconceived thought that everyone is taking this "demo" with a grain of salt. It shows what the Pre can do vs. how it works in real life. That of course is a wait and see approach.

I think The Pre looks good. But the iPhone has many huge advantages firmly in place.

[scottness]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

I knew something wasn't right... I just couldn't put my finger on it... lol. :D

[zombitronic]

... the iPhone has been out for almost 2 years, the Pre doesn't even have a launch date yet. I'm sure people will know about it once the commercials start showing up - just like with the iPhone

Maybe... But the day the iPhone was announced, (not released,) it made the nightly news and the next morning's paper. I don't think the Pre got this treatment from the press. Part of it, I'm sure, is that the Pre is another me-too device, about 2 years too late.

I think Apple also has the advantage of a simple naming system. It's iEverything. If an iCar was announced, everyone would suspect that it came from Apple. Apple's marketing is a lot more consumer friendly than Nokia with their Nokia SX73465G TalkMax 500Q or whatever. The Pre isn't a bad name, but again, it all gets lost between the lines. The Storm, the Bold, the Wind, the Super, the Whatever. It doesn't stick with average Joe like an iDevice.

I'd be interested in a poll where you ask people to name a touch screen phone. You couldn't do it on a tech site, of course, but I would bet that iPhone would take a pretty large percentage.

[xhambonex]

Yes, you clearly don't do programming, you haven't got the faintest clue that programming takes skill and time, and that's why these features took so long to get onto the iPhone OS.

I would say that Apple didn't want to do a Windows Mobile and not do things right from the start just to have a feature tick, like all those other phones do that are hard to use. In the long run Apple's lack of features early on will be totally meaningless because they're there now or soon.

As for multitasking, people here seem to think that keeping the main CPU on at all times running applications doesn't use up battery life. Apple's notification system will run on the baseband CPU which listens for specially formatted text messages (just like Blackberry) for notifications, allowing the main system to sleep and preserve battery.

However I would like it so that when the system is actually being used, applications can be moved to the background temporarily but still run (memory permitting), because the main CPU isn't sleeping then so the battery life issues aren't so worrisome.

Also, I would like to say that I think the Pre has decent hardware and a decent grounding for an operating system, but there are clear problems with the OS - no native applications (yet), apps are widgets that run in the browser using HTML5 local storage, etc. Neat, yes. I bet the iPhone's Safari will be able to do this as well soon enough too. However Palm's solution isn't so hot for native 3D games, etc, like the iPhone. It all depends on how good Palm's SDK will be down the line, and I don't think it will be able to match Apple (or Microsoft).

well yes. duh. Everyone thinks I don't know what it means to put in time and effort, good for you people. But given that you said the basis of what I was getting at, that their OS lacks features that could be done by apple but apple waits to do them (usually they don't think whatever they are working on is perfect). I just want them to use the first rule of design, steal. And take whatever goodness palm thinks of, and make it better.

[Cassie]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

[srl7741]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

I would do the same, I would go with the phone that has the best features for me and also of course has the best cell coverage in my area. Those two factors ultimately dictate what phone I will use.

[CaptainScarlet]

Wonder what the battery life is like on that thing....

[fluff]

Being able to run Pandora in the background would be bad ace! It has that going for it....

[polaris20]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

To me it comes down to the phone in particular, as well as how it integrates with everything else I do, such as e-mail, music, applications, etc.

The thing with the iPhone is that it does tie in so well with everything else, so another brand would have to do that too for me to consider it.

[randomusername]

I'm actually starting to like the Pre software a bit more. I wish the iPhone had a way of easily skipping between apps (going to Springboard and crap gets annoying when you're constantly skipping between two applications) and a way for notifications to not interrupt whatever you're doing.

[Slim02]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

Well seeing I own a Mac, iPod the next best thing was to get a iPhone.. It work very well with what I have because I am already using iTunes and it also sync up with all the rest of my stuff that is on my Mac without jumping through hoops. I love my 3G iPhone and I will get a new one next year when it is time to upgrade...

[mdriftmeyer]

It appears to me that it isn't really multitasking-- the guy demoing always said that the app was paused, when he went to a new app.

Kind'a like Andy Hertzfelds "Switcher" on early Macs, where:

1) the app was paused
2) its status, display, etc was saved
3) it was switched out of memory
4) control was given to the new app

then, the process reversed to fast-resume the "switched-out" app.

Later, Apple called this "pseudo" or "co-operative" multitasking.

It is somewhat similar to switching between tabs on a browser.

If this is, in fact, what they are doing-- it should not to too difficult to accomplish on the iPhone OS or Android (or any other capable OS).

At best, co-operative multitasking. It's not pre-emptive multitasking.

[FightTheFuture]

Palm's new OS is something different, apple should respond with bigger changes than just copy and paste.
The new SDK added 1,000 new APIs and over 100 new features for developers and the only thing people remember after watching that 2 hour presentation is copy and paste. :confused:

[Eso]

Seems like iTunes just is never factored into the equation on this sort of thing. And it really should be. The iPhone/iTunes relationship makes the iPhone such a strong device that any competition cannot simply come at you with a flashy phone and expect to be an equal.

...You need both an iPhone and iTunes killer.

I wasn't even using iTunes before I got the iPhone, using iTunes on windows was such a PITA it made me comfortable knowing that I wasn't missing anything special on a Mac. iTunes is, at the core, a database manager - a weak and limited one at that. (If you don't believe that, check your *.itdb file aka "dot iTunes database"). You can't copy smart playlists if you want a new list with only a couple modified rules? You can't sort by multiple fields? Sure, you can keep clicking on (for example), album to sort by album, album by year, album by artist. What about Album by artist by rating? Year by artist? Anything I use in windows with multiple fields can sort by a minimum of three fields, ascending or descending, in the order you specify.

It's workable once you get used to it, but I was carrying alone fine before it.

It appears to me that it isn't really multitasking-- the guy demoing always said that the app was paused, when he went to a new app.

Everytime he said that it was referring to a video which, of course, makes no sense to continue to play while hidden. The only exception was Pandora, which he manually paused before switching apps.

[BVeritas]

Can't imagine going for a phone that has little of no apps and likely won't have any developer attention. Of course, at this point, it's like all of the iPhone killers which fall by the wayside since it's a lot easier to look good before anyone actually lays hands on it.

[dwright1974]

I'm surprised at how people can compare what is seen in this video to what is actually available on the iPhone - this looks entirely like a mock-up. No delays for network latency, no actual input of text via a keyboard of any type, no details on the 'multitasking' capability which like was mentioned in an earlier thread looks more like cooperative task management - not true preemptive multitasking.


LOL - Have you seen the iPhone TV Ads!?

Not sure where you live but in the UK they have to put something at the bottom of the screen along the lines of "Procedural steps removed and speed not reflective of actual usage".

Now I'm not defending the Pre or the iPhone but to assume that Palm are doing something Apple (and other companies) don't do would be slightly naive.

I have an iPhone and I'm impressed about what they are saying about what the Pre can do. The biggest "win" for me is Synergy - pulling everything together into one calendar/email, etc.

Strange as it sounds, the Pre video has made me realise how many clicks it takes to do 'stuff' on my iPhone and as has been said in numerous posts, adding Contacts, Calendar entries on the iPhone is a slight pain. The only restriction to me is I have bought right in to the Apple ecosystem ... Apps, Music off the iTunes store, so an Apple device is important to me!

I will don my flame-retardant coat now!

- D

[sharkinfested]

Anyone remember the Tapwave Zodiac PDA?
That thing was awesome! It was way ahead of it’s time as it was a gamer’s PDA – It sported a fast processor, lots of memory, a high resolution screen, an analog thumbstick, one of those 4 button north, south, east, west clusters, and two trigger buttons on the side. It was like a smaller version of the PSP – only it came out 2 or 3 years BEFORE the PSP!

In short, the hardware was phenomenal, but it didn’t sell very well and died a quite death not long after it was launched.

WHY?

Software! Or more specifically, the LACK of software titles. This great gamer’s PDA only had a few titles. Sure, it could play all the Palm OS games, but it really needed games that took advantage of it’s joystick and only a few titles did. You can see why no one bought this thing.

IMHO that is why every “iPhone Killer” that comes out eventually fails. They don’t have the sheer number of software titles that the iPhone has. If the Pre doesn’t have 20,000+ apps available to the user then it will meet the same fate as every other “iPhone Killer”.

[dwright1974]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

+1

[Goona]

Have you seen the palmcentral video? That thing looks sluggish. There were constant re-tapping of buttons and very slow to load apps. Not to mention also that when playing movie trailers, the edges of the video were cut off because of the rounded screen which makes it not too good for watching shows or movies.

The Pre has some nice things in it but it is clear that:
a) The device is not ready because it is too slow
or
b)The OS is going to be that sluggish with all the background apps.

You just wait till people get their hands on it, we heard the same thing about the G1, Storm, heck even the bloody Instinct.

[Goona]

Ultrayawn.

An inferior product with an inferior supporting ecosystem arriving in the middle of a global economic downturn.

Yeah. iPhone killer. Sure.

Hehehe, and coming from a company on life support.

[Goona]

Its in a different league than the iphone, but I dont think it is a "competitor" since its on a different carrier. Apple would be in trouble if it was on ATT, but its not. Also it has to be priced for the MAINSTREAM to have even the slightest effect for Sprint, not the rich, if Sprint lets them charge $600-800 then they just wasted millions on a useless exclusivity contract.

I think apple's only advantage over this thing is the app store, I doubt palm has an answer to that. Still, the pre kicks the iphones ass so hard in other categories that it probably doesnt matter.

Keep dreaming there bud.

[Goona]

Give me a single example of Apple directly responding to any competitor's product? They don't ever do that. They just set their course and go. I never understand these "Wow, this will really get Apple's butt in gear" comments because a) Apple's butt is already in high gear as it is and b) Apple doesn't seem to give a rip what others are doing. If that were the case, we would have had copy-and-paste in the iPhone from the start. We would have had DRM-free music in iTunes a couple years ago.

Apple has consistently followed their own compass and not shown any worry about getting bogged down matching features with the wannabes.
Couldn't have put it better.

[vga4life]

How does she type ? I didnt see any virtual keyboard

Physical keyboard. It slides out like so:

http://www.slashphone.com/media/data/1391/palm-pre-1.jpg

[clevin]

of course a superior product generates interests.

you don't really think the whole Giz crowded out there are dumb enough to ignore the leading innovation happening outside apple, do you?

apple isn't the world, somebody needs to step outside for a breath or two of real fresh air for a change.

[Goona]

LOL... the iPhone is the same with just a bigger capacity. Looks like Palm has overtaking the iPhone in less than 2 years. So much for that 5 years ahead of the competition. :rolleyes:

YES which is why they have sold zero webOS devices and Apple has 30 million iPhone OS devices sold, you better hope your company can get off life support.

[elppa]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

Probably represents growing frustrations at seeing Apple's technological prowess and expertise being belittled, while other companies (often inferior) catch up technology is triumphed.

[Digitalclips]

Physical keyboard. It slides out like so:


Reminds me of phones that had rotary dials years after keypads came out, quaint. There is always a market for old technology I guess.

[goodwilldrums]

why didn't they show the keyboard???

and her voice is extremely annoying!!!!

[Goona]

What? Havent you used it in Windows? The way it syncs in Windows is a joke. In OS X its good, all the apps have built in functionality and you dont have to do anything special, in Windows you have to open up itunes to blindly sync things and hope it works (which isnt often), you have no control over anything, its a scary experience since it might delete things. Its so crappy that I dont bother using it in windows except for music. Its not even close to being as good in Windows as it is in OS X.

So how come I use iTunes on windows and everything works well.

[Digitalclips]

I wonder about some of the posters in this thread with the whole "competition is good thing". It surely is; for a company. Is brand loyalty really so important that people are blowing this off like that? What if the Pre ends up being better then the iPhone, and Apple can't top it? Would you still stick with Apple,or go for the better phone, the Pre? (hypothetically) This has been bugging me for some time now. Personally, I'd just go with whatever phone had the features I wanted, not because of the company who made it.

For me it is about the use of OS X ... (as in it's the software). If a phone seemed to have a few more things at any given point in time I would not lose sight of the fact the iPhone is almost a mini Mac and so much can be changed by software alone. I know that under the hood is an OS from the best developers on the planet, so I'd hang in there for the iPhone and not be tempted away by some flash in the pan.

[jasimon9]

how exactly did she type that reply?
on screen? voice commands? the power of her MIND?

My first thought as soon as I saw the typed letters appearing. Where is it coming from?

[drew0020]

of course a superior product generates interests.

you don't really think the whole Giz crowded out there are dumb enough to ignore the leading innovation happening outside apple, do you?

apple isn't the world, somebody needs to step outside for a breath or two of real fresh air for a change.
From what I have seen the Palm Pre O/S really puts 3.0 to shame as far as looks, ability to multitask, etc. The Pre O/S looks slick, fresh, and new. The iPhone O/S looks dated by comparison.

Of course I love my iPhone and looks arent everything (usability is very important and the iPhone is proven here), but I definitely love what I am seeing from the Palm so far.

[Digitalclips]

So how come I use iTunes on windows and everything works well.

Isn't it great to have a well written app on a PC? I never cease to be amazed how well Bonjour, Quicktime, Safari and iTunes run on my PCs (on Vista, XP Pro and 7) but oh so nice to slide the chair over to my MacPro where everything is that good :)

[Goona]

yes indeed. The short time I have been arond here it seems a lot of people feel apple seem to be very conservative until push comes to shove.

Whether or not the Pre is a shove is yet to be seen but it seems to have awaken the designers at apple to perhaps give their iphone customers more of what the ones paying their salaries want instead of the ones getting paid to give us what they think we need

Dude this phone was demoed two months ago, do you think Apple decided to start coding for 3.0 and designing future phones because of this Pre which hasn't sold 1 unit. If you are actually that naive to believe this, then you don't know Apple at all.

[paja]

The Pre on Sprint kills it for me as Sprint is awful in my area. Will be upgrading to the new iPhone being announced in June (I hope).

[elppa]

of course a superior product generates interests.

Apple know this, which is precisely why the Pre won't be competing against the iPhone 3G with iPhone OS 2.2.

We know more about the software the Pre will compete with (or parts).

Now all that remains are the services and hardware.

[lftrghtparadigm]

Looking better and better each time I see it. It won't be an iPhone killer, not a chance, it doesn't have anything unique to offer but a stolen inferface and backgrounding to those who know what it is.

I'm mostly anxious to see how this spurs improvement to the iPhone, hopefully reflected in the upcoming hardware revision.

[pcorajr]

I love how everybody is pinning the PRE against the iphone. NEWS FLASH!!!! NOT EVERYBODY WANTS AN IPHONE.

Some people have their hearts set on this device just because they have been long time palm users. Just like others have their hearts set on the iphone because of Apples superb OS.

The PRE has a very good chance at being a good phone, and only idiots go into thinking that everything that comes out is a iphone killer.

[Unspeaked]

only idiots go into thinking that everything that comes out is a iphone killer.

Wow, you just managed to insult 80% of the forum at once!!

:D

[Toadkillerdog]

Will be getting one of these when it comes out immediately for my daughter. This amazing phone will keep Apple on its toes! Competition helps us consumers out by keeping complacency in check, doesn't it?

[t0mat0]

I think Gruber's recent article http://daringfireball.net/2009/04/complex bears talking about complexity, and taking time to do something is interesting, and relevant.
If Pre's angling the Pre to be a smartphone, fine. But Apple's not angling the v3 iPhone, from the looks of things, to be a "smartphone" by the current definition, or the definition of "smartphone" prior to the iPhone.
The reticence by Skype to get an app ready for Pre is a little telling.

It'll be hard to pigeonhole the next iPhone, (and to a lesser extent, those with OS3.0) - the capabilities from the applications and external peripherals that they'll start being able to communicate with.
Not seeing a price, nor a date is fair enough, but does the SDK really hold a light to Apple's ? We'll see, as it's a limited set of people getting access to it currently, so there will be fewer people who've seen both and are good enough to judge and describe. They're coming with more recent hardware - and it shows what ARM and other parts can do.
Whether multitasking is really relevant we shall see - being able to quickly flip between apps, that can do PNS might be a suitable alternative. Is dependent on speed, which hopefully new hardware will bring. Some of Pre's concepts still remain ahead of Apple's, as we know of them at the moment. In terms of preempting the user - maybe Apple will do it, maybe they won't. More a software implementation though?

[Lesser Evets]

"THE RELEASE DATE IS STILL A MYSTERY..."

uuuuhhh.... if Apple's revision comes out before this, put a fork in it.
I'm sure Apple is busting ass to bust this product down. I'd buy an Apple product way before I take a chance on some other new-buggy-kid-on-the-block. Even if the price is half. I don't have time for fooling around with untried product... who does?

Maybe next year the Palm will be worth a look.

[clevin]

Apple know this, which is precisely why the Pre won't be competing against the iPhone 3G with iPhone OS 2.2.

We know more about the software the Pre will compete with (or parts).

Now all that remains are the services and hardware.

I said this at treocentral

the most revolutionary feature of the Pre is desktop level multi-tasking that allows multiple work-flows for user.

dont confuse it with those so called "background processes", the card system is vast superior than those.

and thats precisely apple's problem with iPhone, its not if they "know" it or not, which I agree with you, they absolutely "know it".

However, knowing it, doesn't mean they can do much about it, OSX is too big and bloated to run on a phone with true multi-tasking without causing problems in places like battery, speed, stability, etc.

I adore apple making a new direction for themselves and trying to crawl out of this situation, by promoting gaming, but boy, is apple really think playing games on iPhone will be that attractive? I think it will generate buzz, but not a long-term solution for iPhone's multi-tasking ghost.

Waiting for better hardware? maybe, if thats how apple thinks, then go ahead wait and see.

[elcid]

Ugh, I understand the idea around background processes, but it would be really nice if we could listen to Pandora, etc like the iPod.

[elppa]

I'd buy an Apple product way before I take a chance on some other new-buggy-kid-on-the-block. Even if the price is half. I don't have time for fooling around with untried product... who does?

With Palm's amazing track record of delivering incremental improvements and updates to their current Palm OS, what possible reason could you have for not leaping on board with the Pré? ;)

Ed Colligan has said the Pré will cost more than the iPhone because it is a better product, so I wouldn't hold out hope on the price either.

[scottness]

background processes are the only real big deal for me. like talking on skype while looking at email, etc. that would be incredibly useful.

[vga4life]

Reminds me of phones that had rotary dials years after keypads came out, quaint. There is always a market for old technology I guess.

I actually use my phone for business, and value a physical keyboard when I need to bang out an email longer than a text message. One of the many reasons I am a Mac user but not an iPhone user.

Call it quaint if you like, but a physical thumb-board I can use without looking at the screen (or - almost as important - without taking up half the screen) is a non-negotiable feature for a lot of people who want to do more than play Super Monkey Ball with their phones.

[scottness]

I actually use my phone for business, and value a physical keyboard when I need to bang out an email longer than a text message. One of the many reasons I am a Mac user but not an iPhone user.


For the most part, I agree. I prefer a physical keyboard. BUT, having the on-screen keyboard is essential for using multiple languages as my wife uses for work every day. Maybe not applicable to most, I concede.

Who has time to play Super Monkey Ball?

[dam0dred]

I'm going to agree with everyone else hoping for the Pre to be a big success. This phone doesn't appeal to me personally but Apple needs someone nipping at their heels, pushing them to innovate.

[scottness]

I'm going to agree with everyone else hoping for the Pre to be a big success. This phone doesn't appeal to me personally but Apple needs someone nipping at their heels, pushing them to innovate.

+1 Agree. Have I mentioned the need for background apps enough, yet, Apple?

[ZiggyPastorius]

I actually use my phone for business, and value a physical keyboard when I need to bang out an email longer than a text message. One of the many reasons I am a Mac user but not an iPhone user.

Call it quaint if you like, but a physical thumb-board I can use without looking at the screen (or - almost as important - without taking up half the screen) is a non-negotiable feature for a lot of people who want to do more than play Super Monkey Ball with their phones.

You "actually use your phone for business"? I don't understand this correlation between the physical keyboard and business. I sort of understand the "Taking up half the screen thing," but I pumped out an entire three page essay while I was on an airplane with just my iPhone, hardly painful to edit when I go back to a laptop, and it was actually a good paper. I REALLY don't understand what is the correlation between physical and business? If you say "I prefer a physical keyboard," then I 100% understand and agree with your decision, but "Physical keyboard is better for business and fast/long typing" makes zero sense to me.

[elppa]

I said this at treocentral

the most revolutionary feature of the Pre is desktop level multi-tasking that allows multiple work-flows for user.

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

and thats precisely apple's problem with iPhone, its not if they "know" it or not, which I agree with you, they absolutely "know it".

I don't quite understand. What Apple knows is they must have the next generation iPhone hardware and software ready by this Summer and it has to be better than the Pré.

However, knowing it, doesn't mean they can do much about it, OSX is too big and bloated to run on a phone with true multi-tasking without causing problems in places like battery, speed, stability, etc.
But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck.

If we're talking about multitasking involving real, compiled applications, then the Pré doesn't do this at the moment. Google's Android (which is Linux based) can but it has a detrimental affect on all the above.

As every OS X based laptop on the market today would beat a Linux based laptop in the area of power management, I wouldn't draw yourself into a Darwin vs Linux debate in this particular area.

I adore apple making a new direction for themselves and trying to crawl out of this situation
We all know the stats: 30 million devices sold and 500 million app downloads, Apple are hardly crawling anywhere.

by promoting gaming, but boy, is apple really think playing games on iPhone will be that attractive? I think it will generate buzz, but not a long-term solution for iPhone's multi-tasking ghost.
If you take the number of Nintendo DS games and the number of PSP games and add them together you get a number smaller than the total number of iPod touch games. That says something about quantity. Now quality: iPhone OS games cleaned up at the recent Independent Games Festival awards in the mobile games area.
Apple is doing a bit more than generating buzz.

Waiting for better hardware? maybe, if thats how apple thinks, then go ahead wait and see.
Apple's not waiting for better hardware, they're actively trying to create it. hence why they acquired PASemi.

Your post backs up my previous point about certain posters being all too willing to belittle Apple's technological prowess.

First you belittle Apple's ability to deliver a viable software platform, then you belittle their ability to deliver a viable gaming platform, then for the hat-trick you try to belittle their ability to deliver hardware.

In reality Apple has delivered in all three areas and (as of today) with the Pré Palm has delivered absolutely zilch.

I agree on these things:
[1] The Pré looks promising
[2] Apple can improve a heap on what they are doing

Where we disagree is that you seem to be under the impression Apple has delivered a immature platform that is of little technological importance, whereas I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Keebler]

I have 2 thoughts:

1. the lawsuit regarding the touch patent if i'm correct in remembering? it will be interesting to see if Apple wins.

2. i'm all for competition. I wonder what the world's computing environments would be like if MS hadn't had such a monopoly when this all started years ago. Not saying I would want everything to be apple, but i wonder if stronger competition would have caused MS to fix some of their issues sooner.

In that respect, I like my iphone alot. I'm not a business power user, but i do use it for work and for my needs, it does the trick. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, but with everyone breathing down their necks, it will keep Apple and the others innovating so in the end, the consumers win.

[sd2009]

+1

The Pre looks good, and if it is better than the iPhone, and does everything I want it do, and I can get it for a good price then there'd only be one thing stopping me and that's seamless music syncing like iTunes provides.

Some people may say "PFFT *SNORT* DRAGGING AND DROPPING FOLDERS ONTO AN MP3 PLAYER IS WAY BETTER." but I disagree. Dragging and dropping music onto an MP3 player is something I did in 2003 and it was awkward and slow, and it required me to manually do things..

I keep my music library in iTunes. It really does "just work". I add music to my iTunes, plug in my iPhone and OH WOW IT SYNCS MY MUSIC TO MY PHONE.

Unless they have something better than iTunes which syncs just as well, or unless iTunes supports the palm pre (haha right), then I'm stuck with Apple :rolleyes:

and what is all this **** under my name?

[ZiggyPastorius]

The Pre looks good, and if it is better than the iPhone, and does everything I want it do, and I can get it for a good price then there'd only be one thing stopping me and that's seamless music syncing like iTunes provides.

Some people may say "PFFT *SNORT* DRAGGING AND DROPPING FOLDERS ONTO AN MP3 PLAYER IS WAY BETTER." but I disagree. Dragging and dropping music onto an MP3 player is something I did in 2003 and it was awkward and slow, and it required me to manually do things..

I keep my music library in iTunes. It really does "just work". I add music to my iTunes, plug in my iPhone and OH WOW IT SYNCS MY MUSIC TO MY PHONE.

Unless they have something better than iTunes which syncs just as well, or unless iTunes supports the palm pre (haha right), then I'm stuck with Apple :rolleyes:

and what is all this **** under my name?

I too enjoy the uniformity of iTunes and the iPhone, however I can't stand syncing. As soon as I change anything, my whole phone gets erased and that bugs me. I like being able to manually change everything.

As for the stuff under your name, this was already covered by many people. Hover your mouse over them in order and spell it out.

[gilroykilroy]

Biggest problem I have with an iPhone is AT&T. It would cost me $1,200 ($50/month over 2 year contract) to replace my Sprint phones (Instinct & 755p) with iPhones. Not to mention activation fees...

I may replace my Instinct with a Pre provided it actually can do PAM tethering (not Bluetooth) like I can do on my Instinct.

[sd2009]

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck..

But that's really not true is it.

1) Webapps are slower since they have to load things from the web

2) The PP apps are just like native apps, except they use javascript, html, and css. The javascript has access to APIs on the phone that allow much much more than what you can do in a web browser.

So :rolleyes:

[sd2009]

I too enjoy the uniformity of iTunes and the iPhone, however I can't stand syncing. As soon as I change anything, my whole phone gets erased and that bugs me. I like being able to manually change everything.

As for the stuff under your name, this was already covered by many people. Hover your mouse over them in order and spell it out.

Sounds like there's something wrong if it erases everything on your phone. :confused:

And it spells April 1. Is it supposed to be an April fools joke? Because its 3rd April here, also its not funny :confused:

[iMacoo7]

I like the way the OS allows some features that are not on the iPhone, but in all honesty (regardless of the hardware the Pre has over the current iPhone)I think the new iPhone will blow the Pre out of the water.

[elppa]

But that's really not true is it.

1) Webapps are slower since they have to load things from the web

2) The PP apps are just like native apps, except they use javascript, html, and css. The javascript has access to APIs on the phone that allow much much more than what you can do in a web browser.

So :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

[1] HTML 5 spec includes offline databases, allowing for offline storage. So not everything has to come from the web all the time.
[2] Compiled Objective-C will execute faster than interpreted javascript.
[3] You can't do 3D in HTML/CSS and Javascript

Its a limitation. You can still make good apps though. It just limits a few areas.

[inkswamp]

Couldn't have put it better.

Thanks.

I fully expect to hear things like "Wow, this new Product X will really get Apple moving" on Digg or Slashdot, but when I hear it on a Mac forum, it just grates on my nerves. Presumably most of the people here have at least a passing knowledge of Apple's history and should know darn well that Apple almost never reacts to what the competition or the rest of the market is doing.

If Apple reacted to competitors like the rest of the tech industry does, we'd have a Mac Tablet, a Mac NetBook, a Mythical Midrange Tower and iPods would work with Plays-For-Sure.

And dammit, we would have had a two-button mouse back in 1999. :D

[sd2009]

:rolleyes:

[1] HTML 5 spec includes offline databases, allowing for offline storage. So not everything has to come from the web all the time.
[2] Compiled Objective-C will execute faster than interpreted javascript.
[3] You can't do 3D in HTML/CSS and Javascript

Its a limitation. You can still make good apps though. It just limits a few areas.

Right but you said that Palms apps were basically the same as iPhone web apps. My main point is that the javascript can do far much more since it has access to those APIs.
Javascript is fast enough for anything I'd want an app on a phone to do.
And I'm not a gamer.

[sd2009]

Thanks.And dammit, we would have had a two-button mouse back in 1999. :D

Instead of years later? :confused:

[iMacoo7]

So your telling me that your phone came with software that can work with both OS X and Windows? Can you prove it with a link or the name of the phone..

Actually Nokia's do sync with windows and macs. I owned an N93 and N93I and used to sync both with my macs. The Mac has built in synchronization and if that is not suffice enough there is always The missing sync.
And here is an article from Apple's page about iSync:
(Support where you need it.
iSync 3.0 in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard provides built-in support for hundreds of popular mobile phones. Just plug-in or pair your phone, choose which calendars or contacts you want to synchronize, and away you go!

More where that came from.
If you have a newer phone than what is supported in Leopard, you can usually download the appropriate plug-in from the phone vendor or a third-party developer.)
Link:http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/
here is your list of mobile phones (A wide range) that sync with a Mac
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2824

[elppa]

Presumably most of the people here have at least a passing knowledge of Apple's history

Sadly, I think you are being extremely over optimistic on this one.

:)

[elppa]

Right but you said that Palms apps were basically the same as iPhone web apps.

Technically they are. They're web apps optimised for the HTML 5 and CSS 3 features in WebKit. Adding custom hooks doesn't change the fact that they are little more than this. Desktop widgets in OS X have access to other APIs, and I don't think of them as full desktop applications either.

Javascript is fast enough for anything I'd want an app on a phone to do.
And 640K software is all the memory anybody would ever need on a computer.

And I'm not a gamer.
I didn't say games, I said 3D.

[sd2009]

Technically they are. They're web apps optimised for the HTML 5 and CSS 3 features in WebKit.

But you're just ignoring the main point: They're not, they have access to APIs and are better integrated into the system unlike the iPhone.

And 640K software is all the memory anybody would ever need on a computer.

I'm sure that was true for a computer back then. :rolleyes: You could apply that argument to anything. i.e., "The iPhone doesn't need copy paste" (in 2007)

And I wouldn't need 3D for anything but games.

Besides, the Palm Pre seems to have everything I want built in anyway.

[elppa]

But you're just ignoring the main point: They're not, they have access to APIs and are better integrated into the system unlike the iPhone.

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

It doesn't answer question like how their developers are going to write for multi-core phones. And yes, the hardware is moving that fast. There will be multi-core chipsets in phones in 2009.

[CaptainScarlet]

You "actually use your phone for business"? I don't understand this correlation between the physical keyboard and business. I sort of understand the "Taking up half the screen thing," but I pumped out an entire three page essay while I was on an airplane with just my iPhone, hardly painful to edit when I go back to a laptop, and it was actually a good paper. I REALLY don't understand what is the correlation between physical and business? If you say "I prefer a physical keyboard," then I 100% understand and agree with your decision, but "Physical keyboard is better for business and fast/long typing" makes zero sense to me.

Ditto on that...I use my iPhone for business purposes, in fact several people at my work do. We all receive a high volume of emails per day and I don't hear a lot of complaining about not having a "Physical Keyboard". It's something you get use to. We all had Blackberry 8830 phones at first, although nice phones (I loved my blackberry), the iPhones gave us more flexibility.

[gcmexico]

I must say, this is great competition for the iphone...I'll never switch over...but not bad Palm Pre:cool:

[macnchiefs]

I can't wait for the phone to come out. I'm buying it the first week fo shizzle yo...

[phobic99]

Looks to be an amazing device. I can't wait to see more but as long as it's on Sprint, I'll have to pass. :(

[sd2009]

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

Ok well I actually agree. And I'm not even planning to switch from my iPhone any time soon, although I would have some fun writing apps for the Pre if I had one.

[t0mat0]

I'm not ignoring it. I read it and understood it the first, second and third times you made the point.

I just don't think it is particularly relevant. Either way it is spun, Pré apps are little more than web apps at the moment and I for one don't think that will cut it in a few years time. This is because I believe most regular folk will own and use a cellphone as their primary computing device (and dock it to a screen/projector and wireless keyboard if needed).

I fully expect Palm to change this and offer a real platform for development. Using web technologies offers a quick shortcut for getting a large number of apps out there and developed quickly.

It doesn't answer question like how their developers are going to write for multi-core phones. And yes, the hardware is moving that fast. There will be multi-core chipsets in phones in 2009.

Is it too much of a presumption, if Pre apps are more like web apps - that the ability to bring them to the iPhone would be rather easy? In the sense that there will be lots of apps on the iPhone the Pre cannot do/ have, but that the apps on the Pre will pretty much all be implementable on the iPhone, to a larger userbase? Will the Pre be able to effectively monetize their apps, in comparison to maybe more complex, but more features apps on the App Store? (Interesting to watch how RIM's store goes, and their current pricing of applications, and what's there / not there).

In terms of tech, and OS size etc - isn't Apple's play that the phone is a small part of it in comparison to other capabilities one of it's strengths? As Gruber recently said:
Apple is coming with "the idea of a general-purpose pocket-sized networked computer." It's a platform. And as OS 3.0, it can be used to retrospectively add software features. Apple's looking to implement features in the main OS in the next update, that will be able to be passed on to it's other products, along with their lessons learnt from it. As mentioned, multi-core chips, GPU as a bigger factor - how new tech can be added and managed in this telephonic MID.

Either way, as the article (http://daringfireball.net/2009/04/complex) goes on, we ain't seen nothing yet. The iPhone doesn't really interact with PCs/Macs / other devices or even Apple products (e.g. Touch, iPhone) too much. Yet.

[iMacoo7]

I dont know how many people watched the full video on the Pre site, but at the very end of the interview the guy said are the apps going to be available on the "app store or whatever you guys are calling it" and the one being interviewed with the Pre said "why yes it will be available on launch day and you will be able to download your apps that you want directly from the device"...
Pretty interesting

[joemama]

Can someone explain this to me:

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

Also, did anyone else presume the reason the video doesn't show a hand or ANY multitouch movement is because of the "potential" lawsuit?

[clevin]

Except it doesn't because not all desktop apps are locally hosted webapps written in javascript, like they are on the Pre.

But you can run multiple web apps in Safari with no problem (and you can flick between using a card like interface, just like on the Pré), so on a technical level they're absolutely neck and neck.

If we're talking about multitasking involving real, compiled applications, then the Pré doesn't do this at the moment. Google's Android (which is Linux based) can but it has a detrimental affect on all the above.

Where we disagree is that you seem to be under the impression Apple has delivered a immature platform that is of little technological importance, whereas I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.
i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

[Stately]

Somehow I don't think the Palm Pre is going to be much competition for the
i phone at all. I feel this especially because of the fact that the 3.0 firmware is dropping soon. Uhh . . sorry there Palm.:cool:

[clevin]

Can someone explain this to me:

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

Also, did anyone else presume the reason the video doesn't show a hand or ANY multitouch movement is because of the "potential" lawsuit?
because palm holds patent on alot of thing that apple infringed on? you dont think palm did smartphone for 15 years holds no crucial patent that can shake iPhone out of market, do you?

not to mention, apple's multi-touch patent doesn't necessarily cover what the Pre can do, apple didn't patent a gesture, they patented how the gesture was interacted by the device, AFAIK.

Somehow I don't think the Palm Pre is going to be much competition for the
i phone at all. I feel this especially because of the fact that the 3.0 firmware is dropping soon. Uhh . . sorry there Palm.:cool:
yeah, sorry, hopefully apple learn the issue more seriously than you think, you really should follow the video of the Pre first. which I bet apple already done so for more than once.

[t0mat0]

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

What might be useful, is to explain a user scenario, about using multi-tasking, and how you'd see true multi-tasking, vs what's going to be offered from Palm/Pre this year that we know of.

What big advantages do you see you'd have vs the second or so of exiting one app, and going to another (barring the automatic movement to anothe app by clicking on an email link/web link etc).

Is there enough screen to really pass on all the desktop mentalities? Surely that thinking, in one way, is the downside to Microsoft's approach?

[rockosmodurnlif]

Pre, much like Wii, is a stupid name. Hopefully the Pre does for Palm what the Wii did for Nintendo.

The OS looks nice, I don't like the device. I imagine the Pre 2 or whatever they call it will be much more appealing to the eye. Not that I will be switching. I'm finished with hardware keyboards and sliding parts on my phone.

[clevin]

What might be useful, is to explain a user scenario, about using multi-tasking, and how you'd see true multi-tasking, vs what's going to be offered from Palm/Pre this year that we know of.

I think its better if people just watch the video. I dont think my words is convincing enough here.

There are two meet the Pre videos on palm.com, which demonstrate two such scenarios.

the other video is the CES video, which I got inspired alot.

I think these three videos covers pretty much most exciting stuff about the Pre.

There are many people mouthing off without knowing much, but I hope people remember, apple only thrive on competition, just like any other company, to deny the inferiority aspect of apple products is not the way of helping the company you like.

[Stately]

because palm holds patent on alot of thing that apple infringed on? you dont think palm did smartphone for 15 years holds no crucial patent that can shake iPhone out of market, do you?

not to mention, apple's multi-touch patent doesn't necessarily cover what the Pre can do, apple didn't patent a gesture, they patented how the gesture was interacted by the device, AFAIK.


yeah, sorry, hopefully apple learn the issue more seriously than you think, you really should follow the video of the Pre first. which I bet apple already done so for more than once.

You'll see when that 3.0 is released lol. Copy and paste is only one of the great features. I think Apple has some other great surprises as well and we will be getting document editing capability on top of that. Not to mention the release of i phone 3.0 is imminent also.

[clevin]

You'll see when that 3.0 is released lol. Copy and paste is only one of the great features. I think Apple has some other great surprises as well and we will be getting document editing capability on top of that. Not to mention the release of i phone 3.0 is imminent also.
Its sad that copy and paste can be a "great feature" of iPhone 3.0....

[EricBrian]

I think it looks pretty cool. I can't wait to see it.

[Stately]

Its sad that copy and paste can be a "great feature" of iPhone 3.0....

It's not sad. It's great because Apple takes their time in order to try to get things correct the first time around. Why is OSX the best? Because Apple took their time to build a better UI. Smoooth sailin' now. So much so that once you go Mac . . . you know the rest. :D

[imwoblin]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm as big an Apple head as most, but you coolade drinkers who worship all things Apple as if they can do no wrong are killing me. I've played with the pre-release Pre and it is indeed very slick. The multitasking OS allowing access to may open apps with just a flick of you're pinky is miles ahead of what I'm using on my iPhone 3G. If the final release is as smooth and fast as the pre-release, Palm will have a winner and we Mac heads will get a better product down the road as Apple goes back to work to top em...

[kdarling]

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

What do you think they'd sue over? Apple has no patent on multi-touch.

Read a little more here. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/)

Even more interesting is reading the so-called "iphone patent" and seeing all the references to things Apple used from others. Like, oh say, displaying an entire web page on a small screen and tapping a section to zoom in on it.

Almost nothing in the iPhone is new to the touch industry. Just new to the mass consumer.

[pugnut]

Other then their people, find it odd. For a product that is about to be released the hype in minimal as compared to the iPhone. Apple is beating them at the PR game every day.

[thiagos]

The woman talking sounds akwardly seductive.

It sounds pornographic.

[joemama]

What do you think they'd sue over? Apple has no patent on multi-touch.

Read a little more here. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/)

Even more interesting is reading the so-called "iphone patent" and seeing all the references to things Apple used from others. Like, oh say, displaying an entire web page on a small screen and tapping a section to zoom in on it.

Almost nothing in the iPhone is new to the touch industry. Just new to the mass consumer.

This only strengthens Apples case, no? It's clear Palm copied Apple's scroll and swipe/slide.

[Stately]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm as big an Apple head as most, but you coolade drinkers who worship all things Apple as if they can do no wrong are killing me. I've played with the pre-release Pre and it is indeed very slick. The multitasking OS allowing access to may open apps with just a flick of you're pinky is miles ahead of what I'm using on my iPhone 3G. If the final release is as smooth and fast as the pre-release, Palm will have a winner and we Mac heads will get a better product down the road as Apple goes back to work to top em...

I hear ya. I am an Apple head as well. It's simply because I admire them for their listening ear, innovation and desire to bring consumers quality products. So in any event, if they were a company like any other, that brightly illuminated apple on my pro would have no significance to me and I would have gone with another company. I mean the Pre looks cool, don't get me wrong. I think I'm just tired of hearing about all these supposed i phone busters. If everyone had the capability to do this that and the other with phone tech, they should have released it long ago. Instead many of Apples now competitors wanted to continue to release dribs and drabs of new tech here and there little by little in order to leech us out of our money for as long as possible. They have done so by always releasing a supposed "cool" new feature, such as a higher megapixel amount on a phone or new ringtones etc . . Now they feel pressured to keep up with the hype, so they are all coming out of the woodwork. So I guess I admire Apple for their ethical status of sorts as well.

[kdarling]

This only strengthens Apples case, no? It's clear Palm copied Apple's scroll and swipe/slide.

As I said, it was a little more reading. Not definitive.

I've been doing touchscreens for almost two decades, and touchpads for a decade before that. Kinetic scrolling is nothing new. Swipes, slides, ditto.

The only new (to me) effect that Apple did was the rebound from the end of a document. But then, as the article points out, Palm has some base patents on stuff Apple uses. So I suspect each will ignore the others' transgressions, in order to avoid a war neither would like.

[lostngone]

It's not sad. It's great because Apple takes their time in order to try to get things correct the first time around. Why is OSX the best? Because Apple took their time to build a better UI. Smoooth sailin' now. So much so that once you go Mac . . . you know the rest. :D

I wouldn't worry, clevin is just hate'in on the iPhone. The Pre is going to be just like the Zune. Lots of hype but nothing that is going make alot of people with iPhones want to switch.

[Stately]

I wouldn't worry, clevin is just hate'in on the iPhone. The Pre is going to be just like the Zune. Lots of hype but nothing that is going make alot of people with iPhones want to switch.

Exactly and that's not me hating on the Pre either. The facts are the facts. It's like having Nikes vs. that no name brand that your parents forced you to get when you were little to prove the point of value lol. Of course you could play in them but they didn't look as cool and in most cases weren't as comfortable because not a lot of thought went into them, except making money. :D

[Slim02]

Actually Nokia's do sync with windows and macs. I owned an N93 and N93I and used to sync both with my macs. The Mac has built in synchronization and if that is not suffice enough there is always The missing sync.
And here is an article from Apple's page about iSync:
(Support where you need it.
iSync 3.0 in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard provides built-in support for hundreds of popular mobile phones. Just plug-in or pair your phone, choose which calendars or contacts you want to synchronize, and away you go!

More where that came from.
If you have a newer phone than what is supported in Leopard, you can usually download the appropriate plug-in from the phone vendor or a third-party developer.)
Link:http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/
here is your list of mobile phones (A wide range) that sync with a Mac
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2824

Yes but can it sync ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts back and forth on a Mac? No! Only Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items. So you call that real sync up?.. Sorry the iPhone does way more then that and do it on both windows and Mac..



:confused::confused::confused: Your original assertion was


You seem to be trying to redefine your question to hide the fact that your assertion was WRONG.(I'd add flashy lights if I could)
And I hardly think of software written by the phone manufacturer to be third party - by definition they are party to the syncing process. It's just that bit more fluid with the iPhone because the phone manufacturer and the computer manufacturer are the same.

Sorry I am not wrong because you can only sync Address Book Contacts, Address Book Pictures, Calendar and To Do Items.. That to me is not syncing.. Ringtones, music, videos, photos, bookmarks, email accounts and so on is real syncing then that crap you call syncing.. No other phone like the iPhone can be sync up like the iPhone can do on both Windows and Mac..

[ArtursBoy]

I think its better if people just watch the video. I dont think my words is convincing enough here.

There are two meet the Pre videos on palm.com, which demonstrate two such scenarios.

the other video is the CES video, which I got inspired alot.

I think these three videos covers pretty much most exciting stuff about the Pre.

There are many people mouthing off without knowing much, but I hope people remember, apple only thrive on competition, just like any other company, to deny the inferiority aspect of apple products is not the way of helping the company you like.

Well, it's nice to find comments that don't start with the words "THE IPHONE SUCKS!" when comparing it to the Pre from those who feel Pre is a better phone/OS (or those who prefer Android or BB or WM devices)

I've seen the videos and read the reviews, and the Palm Pre looks great. Once thing I can't help but notice, however, is Palm's emphasis on how the OS looks, which is fine, Apple does this as well, but somehow I feel that the way they are implementing it cuts into the ease of use of the device.

For example, Pre's applications are actually on a submenu of the home screen. (Once on the home screen, you click the "up" arrow for the applications card to pop up). This is similar to a WM device, where the "up" arrow is instead the Applications folder or the Start button. Once in the applications card, not only can you slide to the side, but you can slide down, I can see this being a bit confusing when trying to locate an application if you have more than a "few" applications (I have 70+ apps on my iPhone, so I feel that looking for an app going up and down might take me longer to find it instead of just sliding to the sides). Definitely not a big deal, no one's gonna say the phone sucks because of this, but I think its just an example on how Apple might have tried to make it as easy as possible to operate the iPhone, and in doing that, they've given up a certain amount of eye candy. (iPhone does not have any submenus to get to the apps, the apps are on the home screen).

Granted, the iPhone's UI is now almost 2 years old, and we like to update things. It'll be interesting to see how Apple updates their UI while maintaining its simplicity. Hopefully improved hardware will allow true multitasking in addition to Push notifications, and maybe use something similar to "Spaces" on Leopard to manage open applications.

I'm looking forward for the Pre to be released, and very interested on seeing how Apple responds. I would like to see Apple finally giving in and introducing an iPhone with a physical keyboard in addition to an iPhone with no keyboard (iPhone Touch and iPhone Pro ?). I feel they should have more than one phone. Expand your line up Apple, the touchscreen-only phone doesn't need to be replaced, it should be complemented with a keyboard model for those who prefer/need it.

[Analog Kid]

The Pre gives people something nice to say about Palm after they're dead.

"Yeah, Palm was kind of a disaster but I have to say the Pre looked pretty good."

[leonstafford]

Even as a self-confessed Mac fanboy, this looks like the nicest interface alternative out there.

Palm really lost their status in the PDA world after releasing crap OS's, so me's guessing they want to come out fighting...

The thing which could (and likely will) neutralize this from being an iPhone killer is the SDK/developer support. App store shouldn't be a limiting factor if the software is good and at the right price, though iTunes is already on most people's computers....

I'd like to see Apple stop whining about Palm stealing it's technology which has been out for what 2 years now? Time and energy better spent bringing out the next super-device to put everyone behind them several years.....again!

[str1f3]

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

This is a ridiculous notion that apple is not technically capable of delivering a mobile os and this is coming from someone who's contract ends in June. The pre could not have been done as it is on last years hardware. The pre has a significantly better processor and more ram than the iPhone 3g. Heck, the ipod touch has better hardware than the iPhone 3g. It is yet to be seen what is in hardware 3.0.

The pre has better integration than the iPhone which is something I would have liked to see in the sdk. It is a lot shorter walk for apple to add hooks for the integration for apps (i.e. fandango & mail) than it is for palm to add an api for something like gaming. You point to the pre website video which shows want palm wants you to see. The palmcentral video is more telling. It is like watching the iPhone 3g commercials and believing 3g is really that fast. In the palmcentral video, the pre is much more sluggish and choppy. You can say that it is not released yet, but it was nearly three months since the pre was initially shown and is not far from the time that the pre has to be released. This is not even considering that they are not letting anybody touch the phone (unless you're a celebrity). Bonnie Cha has complained about this on cnet.

Right now, I suspect the pre is a better phone but that all around the iPhone is better all around mobile/multimedia device. I do think though that the webOS is a better looking os and put more thought into the notification system that apple has put into their pns.

I don't know how anyone can say one or the other is better. The iPhone hardware 3.0 hasn't even been introduced yet and nobody can even touch the pre which is really weird at this late juncture.

[ArtursBoy]

As I said, it was a little more reading. Not definitive.

I've been doing touchscreens for almost two decades, and touchpads for a decade before that. Kinetic scrolling is nothing new. Swipes, slides, ditto.

The only new (to me) effect that Apple did was the rebound from the end of a document. But then, as the article points out, Palm has some base patents on stuff Apple uses. So I suspect each will ignore the others' transgressions, in order to avoid a war neither would like.

Kdarling, in a way I think we are overlooking the positives a patent brings. If we all act like anyone can copy just about anything, then development wouldn't be as intense (or as well funded) because companies would just realize they can simply steal from what others come up with, so why spend resources ourselves? If a company feels their findings will be protected, and they will eventually benefit (most importantly benefit financially) from it, they will be more likely to research and develop.

I don't think the infringed patents from either Apple or Palm should be overlooked. I think they in fact should (and I think they probably will) file lawsuits, but instead of fighting until the "end", they will "settle" outside of court. If they don't at least try to do something that says "don't copy me", it'll signal others to do the same. I'm no lawyer, but Apple might be waiting for the Pre to go on sale, since at that point, Palm would be "profiting" from patents owned by Apple, and well then Palm would most likely respond in a similar manner, but in the end, I think they would just find a settlement outside of court.

[iMule]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I first saw the first ads for the original iPhone, it was like seeing something from another planet. Out of any of the iPhone's competition, I like the G1 the most. It has it's own selling point with the Android operating system. Somebody in this thread stated that the G1 was meant to be a windows mobile killer, and that is a better way to look at it. Also, Google steered clear of multi-touch which is respectable. On the other hand, RIM tried to blow their Storm up to be like it was the second coming of Christ. Now, Palm is at it. Not only are they the most unoriginal copy cats and intellectual property thieves, but they're very aggressive with it. It's like their scheme is "The iPhone is dying out, so everyone is going to get the Pre." I'm really good at guitar, but no matter how hard I try, I will never be John Mayer. Even if I surpassed his talent, what happens to John Mayer? Nothing, he's still John Mayer.

[swagi]

This is a ridiculous notion that apple is not technically capable of delivering a mobile os and this is coming from someone who's contract ends in June. The pre could not have been done as it is on last years hardware. The pre has a significantly better processor and more ram than the iPhone 3g. Heck, the ipod touch has better hardware than the iPhone 3g. It is yet to be seen what is in hardware 3.0.

The pre has better integration than the iPhone which is something I would have liked to see in the sdk. It is a lot shorter walk for apple to add hooks for the integration for apps (i.e. fandango & mail) than it is for palm to add an api for something like gaming. You point to the pre website video which shows want palm wants you to see. The palmcentral video is more telling. It is like watching the iPhone 3g commercials and believing 3g is really that fast. In the palmcentral video, the pre is much more sluggish and choppy. You can say that it is not released yet, but it was nearly three months since the pre was initially shown and is not far from the time that the pre has to be released. This is not even considering that they are not letting anybody touch the phone (unless you're a celebrity). Bonnie Cha has complained about this on cnet.

Right now, I suspect the pre is a better phone but that all around the iPhone is better all around mobile/multimedia device. I do think though that the webOS is a better looking os and put more thought into the notification system that apple has put into their pns.

I don't know how anyone can say one or the other is better. The iPhone hardware 3.0 hasn't even been introduced yet and nobody can even touch the pre which is really weird at this late juncture.

QFT

And to put an emphasis on that: I personally will have a great choice of products in August, when I definitely get a new mobile handset. I just hope, that Apple's answer will eliminate all those bugging glitches, the iPhone currently has for me (which, btw, are minor - and price of the contract is a growing issue, when the competing products stack up so well - think Pre, think Omnia HD, think N97, think Idou).

[Goona]

i dont think you followed the webos developing detail, webapp is different idea than what webos is allowing. and it will convincing no one to claim safari's web app is anything remotely close to true "multi-tasking".

The Pre offers desktop level multi-tasking experiences, and its best so far on a mobile device, More than technical issues, the user experiences will be at a completely different level than any current smartphones in the market (iPhone included), which are all, one way or the other, glorified app launchers.

My point is apple technically isn't capable of developing a good mobile os. I dont expect people here to agree, but I do want to put it out.

for topics about sales, innovations, revolutions, good or bad. I really have no interest to debate it since there is absolutely zero data to support any comparison. I will leave that to a later discussion.

Apple isn't technically capable of developing a good mobile OS and I guess you are.

[Goona]

Other then their people, find it odd. For a product that is about to be released the hype in minimal as compared to the iPhone. Apple is beating them at the PR game every day.

Maybe they are scared of people finding out about the limitations of the phone.

[Goona]

Even as a self-confessed Mac fanboy, this looks like the nicest interface alternative out there.

Palm really lost their status in the PDA world after releasing crap OS's, so me's guessing they want to come out fighting...

The thing which could (and likely will) neutralize this from being an iPhone killer is the SDK/developer support. App store shouldn't be a limiting factor if the software is good and at the right price, though iTunes is already on most people's computers...

I'd like to see Apple stop whining about Palm stealing it's technology which has been out for what 2 years now? Time and energy better spent bringing out the next super-device to put everyone behind them several years.....again!Show me when Apple whined about anything Palm.

[huntercr]

Did anyone remember that Apple has a controlling interest in both the CPU and the graphics hardware in this device? I think it now makes sense why they bought so much of the company. They didn't want Palm to be able to squeeze them.

I love the iphone, so don't get me wrong, but I'm glad to see a real competitor finally coming out. All the other vendors are idiots... their entire business model has not abiltiy to compete with Apple. They have always been about giving the most minimal features at the lowest price, and focusing on what the lowest common denominator public thinks is cool rather than what would truly be productive and enabling... so it's good to see a company that really does understand productivity and multimedia ( though they stagnated for 6 years ) try to challenge Apple. the iPhone will get better for it.
I still think Apple will win in the end, but I'm happy to see some real offering from someone else finally.

[mojohojo]

this is looking pretty sweet. i hope Palm does well and not fail. hopefully match with the iphone.

[mdriftmeyer]

Right but you said that Palms apps were basically the same as iPhone web apps. My main point is that the javascript can do far much more since it has access to those APIs.
Javascript is fast enough for anything I'd want an app on a phone to do.
And I'm not a gamer.

Do you have a clue about Cocoa?

This article shows how moronic the Predev.net fans base is:

http://www.predev.net/2009/02/15/why-the-palm-pre-sdk-is-better-than-the-iphones/

Comparing Javascript/HTML to ObjC/IB/HTML4 & 5/Cocoa and more by comparing

Hello World?

Holy crap. Talk about reinventing the wheel ten times with javascript.

If you can't use Interface Builder and printf to produce Hello World then please don't go into software development.

[MACingIS4Me]

To be honest although Android was touted as an iPhone killer I think it was always intended to be a Windows Mobile killer.

Oh i hope to god it does kill windows mobile. Worst OS on a smartphone. Windows 7 mobile will die just like vista. it will look like the iphone's os but be as useful has my 10 year old nokia clam shell phone.

[MegaSignal]

Physical Keyboard eh? Wow, how 'retro'!

Yeah, I hear ya.

However, in the end, physical keyboards may end up being better suited for humans.

Only time will tell.

[iMaggot]

bring on the competition!!! this will only make the iphone that much stronger.

Yeah, i hope this pushes Apple to making an even better iPhone.

[Syrus28]

I'd say is the first phone Apple has to keep and eye on. While others may put up some big sale figures (BlackBerry Storm), none has really come close to offering the same smooth experience as the iPhone...until now. I saw the Palm Pre at CES, and it really does capture that feeling. The interface is really slick, and the transitioning animations are great. Color me excited.

[inkswamp]

Instead of years later? :confused:

Exactly my point--Apple simply does not follow what the rest of the market is doing, even in some cases, as with the mouse button issue, where it seems like a no-brainer. You can argue the merits of that decision but regardless, that's an example of Apple doing it their own way. They changed the mouse when they felt there was a reason to do so, not back in the early 90s.

So, yet another example of why Apple will not react to the Palm Pre. People coming here and saying, "Woohoo, real competition! Now Apple will have to give us features X, Y and Z." People saying that are ignoring Apple's history of ignoring the competition.

[SandynJosh]

Its main advantage over the iPhone is that it allows third-party applications to run in the background. But how many applications is it going to allow? What happens when it's pushed to its limit? We'll have to wait and see.

I really have to ask... "What third-party aps?"

Would you rather have +10,000 third-party aps that don't currently run in the background, or zero third-party aps that would run in the background if there were any?

The power of the iPhone is in the SDK that allows an easy development path to a huge existing market through the iTunes store. The pressure on Apple to keep the iPhone better then the competition is a lot less than if it were just a face-off between phones. Success for a competitor means putting the whole extro-structure in place. I don't see anyone doing that. I hear MicroSoft saying they will, but talk is cheep and MicroSoft still has the market cornered on VaporWare.

[Syrus28]

Exactly my point--Apple simply does not follow what the rest of the market is doing, even in some cases, as with the mouse button issue, where it seems like a no-brainer. You can argue the merits of that decision but regardless, that's an example of Apple doing it their own way. They changed the mouse when they felt there was a reason to do so, not back in the early 90s.

So, yet another example of why Apple will not react to the Palm Pre. People coming here and saying, "Woohoo! Competition. Now Apple will have to give us features X, Y and Z." People saying that are ignoring Apple's history.
Really?
While they may hide it better than others, have no doubt that Apple (like ALL other companies) constantly adapt to the demands of the users and it's impending competition. If you think Apple changes/updates their products from the goodness of their heart, I have a bridge to sell you.

[robanga]

Looks kind of nice. I think the product name is silly though, makes me want to wait for the " post" or not the "pre" version.

[Syrus28]

I really have to ask... "What third-party aps?"

Would you rather have +10,000 third-party aps that don't currently run in the background, or zero third-party aps that would run in the background if there were any?

The power of the iPhone is in the SDK that allows an easy development path to a huge existing market through the iTunes store. The pressure on Apple to keep the iPhone better then the competition is a lot less than if it were just a face-off between phones. Success for a competitor means putting the whole extro-structure in place. I don't see anyone doing that. I hear MicroSoft saying they will, but talk is cheep and MicroSoft still has the market cornered on VaporWare.
I'd say the Palm Pre being separate from a mandatory tries-to-do-too-much application is a good thing. It uses a "hard-disk mode", which enables it to be used with the plethora of music organizing programs out there. It uses Amazon MP3 for over-the air downloads. It's SDK just started rolling out today, based on largely existent coding languages. The Pre syncs email, calendars, and contacts with existing web-based solutions like gmail and Facebook. It's a lot less attached to the desktop, which is inevitably where the future of phones is going. How is that mistakable for a weakness?

[i0Nic]

For me, iPhone 3.0 brings nearly everything I need to a phone. Except for a few things:

1. Better notification system - IMHO, the current iPhone notification system is absolutely terrible. With push notifications coming, I really hope in the near future Apple changes their notification strategy. I hope they go with how either the Palm Pre or Android does their notifications - very well done, imho.

2. REAL Multitasking - I think this is an eventuality, so I can be patient on this one. Push notifications (for the most part) should cover around 70% of my needs. It's just the notification thing that needs to be adjusted (see point #1).

3. Better home screen organization - a form of stacks? Categories? Anything? It's getting a bit out of hand.

w00master

Totally agree with your whole post.

[iceman73]

Doesn't seem like THAT much of a threat. Just another iPhoney rip-off. Apple annihilates ALL competition, so...no worries, right? ;)

[needthephone]

The big feature this offers is multi tasking.

apple COULD easily do this but say it can't effectively be done (just watch the last key note when they announced OS3) and I think their reasoning is corrrect. As I said, apple would do this if they could but they say the processors aren't fast enough and batetry time will drop off significantly. They say the phone will be un useable after a couple of hours or so

So how have Palm over come these huge problems?

I guess they haven't but its a feature apple don't have (because they aren't happy to implement it) so they will have it and make a big deal of it.

I have brought lots of products which are suppose to have features so they can be in the feature list on the box but when you actually use them they are heavily comprimised and just don't work. My Nokia 6280 had an MP3 player but it was hopeless.

My guess is that palm will come unstuck with the multi tasking aspect big time.

[needthephone]

Can someone explain this to me:

How come Apple isn't suing Palm over patent infringement? What are they waiting for?

Also, did anyone else presume the reason the video doesn't show a hand or ANY multitouch movement is because of the "potential" lawsuit?

It's not on sale.

Anybody is free to openly copy any idea which is patented, no problem. No law has been broken.

But if you start to sell that idea as your own, then you are liable to be sued over patent infringement.

As soon as the first one is brought by a paying customer then palm will be served a big writ...

Patents are about protecting commercial exploitation of ideas. They are also published to archive human knowledge for the greater good.

[Eso]

I don't think the infringed patents from either Apple or Palm should be overlooked. I think they in fact should (and I think they probably will) file lawsuits, but instead of fighting until the "end", they will "settle" outside of court.

What exactly would they settle? You can pretty much file a suit for any amount of money you want, as the dust of negotiations settled it'd just be a wash anyways and all they will have accomplished is putting their legal teams' children and grandchildren through Harvard.

Or maybe they'd settle for 8% of their respective profits for device sales:

Palm: "OK, we agree to 8% of the profits from 15 million iPhone sales"

Apple: "Ok, but only if we get 8% of the profits from 0 Pre sales!"

[ArtursBoy]

The big feature this offers is multi tasking.

apple COULD easily do this but say it can't effectively be done (just watch the last key note when they announced OS3) and I think their reasoning is corrrect. As I said, apple would do this if they could but they say the processors aren't fast enough and batetry time will drop off significantly. They say the phone will be un useable after a couple of hours or so

So how have Palm over come these huge problems?

I guess they haven't but its a feature apple don't have (because they aren't happy to implement it) so they will have it and make a big deal of it.

I have brought lots of products which are suppose to have features so they can be in the feature list on the box but when you actually use them they are heavily comprimised and just don't work. My Nokia 6280 had an MP3 player but it was hopeless.

My guess is that palm will come unstuck with the multi tasking aspect big time.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is where the whole "java based" apps come into play. With the Pre, aside from having a faster processor than the iPhone, the java based apps the Pre will use apparently dont tax the processor as heavily as "regular" apps (although the counter argument is that these apps can't be as powerful, meaning no 3D games and things like that).

Remember when iPhone first came out, they tried to push these "webapps" that could run in Safari? You could, and still can actually, run multiple of these webapps in Safari, I guess Apple must have figured out that these arent too harsh for the processor and could handle multiple apps at a time. Unfortunately the idea didnt really take off, and eventually they allowed regular apps.

I think that's the basic idea, and I actually have to give props to Palm for executing what Apple initially tried to do, but it seems they actually got it right.

Looking at it with more of a long term prospective, with more efficient and more powerful hardware (technology evolves rapidly), there wont be a need to limit background apps since these could be handled easily with multicores, more and faster system ram, smarter apps management, etc. In that sense, Apple could potentially benefit since the applications it can run are "more powerful" (yes, arguable I know) when compared to Pre's apps, which it currently seems can only run Java based apps.

[needthephone]

You then have the issue about all those ex apple employees going to Palm and working on ideas they were also working on at apple. That is probaly the bigger issue as employees are not allowed to breach the trust of former employers and equally new employers ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK ON IDEAS THEIR NEW EMPLOYEES BROUGHT TO THEM FROM FORMER EMPLOYERS. It's not a gentleman's agreement it is company law.

Some of the new Palm employees were very bitter ex apple guys. They openly spouted how they were going to out apple apple. All this will be used as testimony.

Seriously, and being compleatly objective I can't see Palm surviving this last gambit. They have nothing to loose as they are going downhill anyway though so they may as well toss a coin and hope it lands in their favour.

apple's legal team are attack dogs and won't stop until their prey is dead.

[addicted44]

I like the Pre. Or at least what Palm has shown off it.

The problem is that they have not let anyone use a single working device. In real life demos, its Palm Executives who are doing the demo'ing (not reviewers) who are showing a limited subset of what it is capable of (and what it MUST be able to do before release).

About the only 2 apps that have been demoed (and not true demos either) are Fandango and Pandora.

The Pre has a long way to go before release. Apple will have 3.0 out, and a roadmap for 4.0 out before that even happens.