it's getting mean in here again... [Archive]

Thanatoast

Apr 17, 2004, 01:54 PM

zimv20

Apr 17, 2004, 02:01 PM

yeah, i'll own up to that. i'll behave.

Sayhey

Apr 17, 2004, 02:05 PM

people, i don't wanna be the self-appointed gaurdian of politeness but...

i think it's time to take another deep breath. the tone of the posts is going way downhill again. here we finally get desertrat back, and what does he walk into but a mud-slinging fest b/t some regulars and our new poster from the right, slyhunter. all i'm asking for is an end to the personal insults. there are several positive benefits that could accrue from this policy.

the first being to reduce insults. They add nothing to a thread and generally make it an unpleasant read.

insults also stifle debate. how many potential conservative posters may get turned off by the bad-tempered name calling and not bother to post?

the easiest way to deal with posts you don't agree with is to debunk them. if they are off-topic, ignore them. if they are insulting, keeping your own post polite will simply point out how poor the opposing side is arguing. this isn't grade-school, we can do without all the drama.

i just want to keep the debate spirited and the opinions diverse. this is accomplished a lot better by attacking the argument, not the arguer.

Your point is well taken, but what do you propose to do about trolling and spamming? Personally, I'm about ready to use the ignore list, because there is no use in discussion with posters who are about such tactics. I've tried very hard to deal with issues, but the outrageous nature of the posts and the number (229 in three days - at last count, and all in the Political Discussions section) make it hard not to make comments about such posters. I'm all for discussions, even heated ones, if they are backed up by reasoned arguments. I don't appreciate being inundated by drivel.

SlyHunter

Apr 17, 2004, 02:35 PM

people, i don't wanna be the self-appointed gaurdian of politeness but...

i think it's time to take another deep breath. the tone of the posts is going way downhill again. here we finally get desertrat back, and what does he walk into but a mud-slinging fest b/t some regulars and our new poster from the right, slyhunter. all i'm asking for is an end to the personal insults. there are several positive benefits that could accrue from this policy.

the first being to reduce insults. They add nothing to a thread and generally make it an unpleasant read.

insults also stifle debate. how many potential conservative posters may get turned off by the bad-tempered name calling and not bother to post?

the easiest way to deal with posts you don't agree with is to debunk them. if they are off-topic, ignore them. if they are insulting, keeping your own post polite will simply point out how poor the opposing side is arguing. this isn't grade-school, we can do without all the drama.

i just want to keep the debate spirited and the opinions diverse. this is accomplished a lot better by attacking the argument, not the arguer.
I started with one Generalized insult. I thought it was funny nobody else did *shrug*
Other than that I havn't passed out any personal attacks or insults on anyone other than myself.

zimv20

Apr 17, 2004, 02:41 PM

someone just made my ignore list

IJ Reilly

Apr 17, 2004, 02:44 PM

I second that emotion. It's all well and good to talk about civility, but that doesn't address the problem of a hyperactive provocateur raising the noise level way above the signal. My personal solution is the ignore list, but obviously not everyone is prepared to use it. Perhaps the moderators will have some other advice for maintaining the decorum of this board in the face of this issue. It's going to be a long year. If we don't figure something out, we'll be looking at the wasteland threat again before we get to November.

pseudobrit

Apr 17, 2004, 02:48 PM

someone just made my ignore list

Ditto. I encourage everyone else to do the same. As long as no one responds to his nonsense, we can stay on topic and have real debate.

toontra

Apr 17, 2004, 03:18 PM

Ditto. I encourage everyone else to do the same. As long as no one responds to his nonsense, we can stay on topic and have real debate.

Spyhunter has been on my ignore list for 2 days now. This is a first for me - even macfan didn't push me that far.

The problem is, however, if people do respond to his/her posts you are almost forced to read chunks of them anyhow, in quote form.

I can't think of an easy answer - perhaps a limit of 20 posts per day? That would stop the blanket spam trolling, but would restrict bona-fide members.

I can only suggest that as many people as possible ignore these posts - at the moment they are achieving their desired effect of dragging the forum down into irrelevant & personal nonsense - we should at least try to deny them that pleasure.

Some input from a mod wouldn't go amiss at this point.

zimv20

Apr 17, 2004, 03:21 PM

This is a first for me - even macfan didn't push me that far.
yeah, macfan, sanfelipe and g5man never made mine. i think this is only ignore #3 for me.

jefhatfield

Apr 17, 2004, 03:32 PM

if he was a legitimate poster or true libertarian (neither liberal nor conservative...but live and let live) with new points of view (outside of republican vs democrat), then i would be ok with it

but he's no libertarian but more of a spammer and i don't think the mods really care that much as long as he doesn't insult anybody or vice versa...the biggest insults fly between the republicans and democrats here anyway ;)

there is no way to really draw a line between political poster vs spammer/troller/flamewar junkie...so it's prolly going to be about who insults who and how much of that is acceptable or if it crosses the line

the mod here, rower_cpu, seems to be ok with the new poster and i will not put him or anybody on my ignore list...if i don't like it, i just post non political stuff in the community discussions and there is plenty there that is interesting...so for you political section only posters, take a look see into community sections...it's generally good for your health and your blood pressure ;)

and if apple inc really as something down the pike, then i am in the rumors section ;)

Desertrat

Apr 17, 2004, 03:41 PM

I'm such a sweetheart of a guy that my conscience is absolutely clear. That comes from living a pure, clean life. Malice toward none and all that. :D

I've never used the "Ignore" thingie. It's easier to just skim or not bother to read some comments from some people. And, after all, even an "Ignore" type occasionally contributes valid points. Heck, blind pigs find acorns from time to time...

This attitude is much easier for me, of course. Some of it's age; some of it's the cancer thing. I wake up in the morning to discover my eyes will open and I'm still breathing, and I gotta figure it's pure profit. :D

Gettin' old ain't for the faint of heart.

Y'all be good,

'Rat

King Cobra

Apr 17, 2004, 03:57 PM

I heard that if you stay in the Political Forums for more than a month, the following side effects can occur:
>Irritability
>Increased stress
>Wild mood swings
>Fatigue
>Tiredness
>Stomach ache
>Migraine
>Vision impairment
>Increased hyperactivity
>Drowsy or red eyes

The political forums are kind of like being around the bottom of the ocean somewhere around the shoreline...you can stay there for a few minutes, but prolonged exposure can be fatal.

I recommend one of the following remedies:
>Sleep
>Stepping out
>A punching bag
>Tylenol
>NyQuil (if you're an alcoholic)
>A sex change
>Claration D

IJ Reilly

Apr 17, 2004, 04:10 PM

Yeah, now that was helpful.

Neserk

Apr 17, 2004, 04:52 PM

I heard that if you stay in the Political Forums for more than a month, the following side effects can occur:

It depends on who is here. In many cases it can be a real education.

Backtothemac

Apr 17, 2004, 05:21 PM

Well, I agree with you. I have been away for quite a while now. But, that being said, I think I have had a much better attitude than I did before.

Anyone agree?

zimv20

Apr 17, 2004, 05:32 PM

Well, I agree with you. I have been away for quite a while now. But, that being said, I think I have had a much better attitude than I did before.

Anyone agree?
it's difficult for me to separate the attitude from the position shifts. but i really really enjoy seeing "i'm questioning what my gov't is doing" over "i'm trusting the gov't", regardless of which party is in power.

numediaman

Apr 17, 2004, 05:44 PM

I have a proposition: why doesn't someone create a thread where one can go to be called names -- kind of a masochist's thread. In this thread you can quote outrageous news sources, and then sit back and get called all sorts of things.

This thread would be a great place to go if you just need someplace to go to scream at a total stranger. Or conversely, if you need to be abused. This would be a place where people are not separated by politics, but by whether they like to receive or administer pain.

I suggest, however, that everyone have unique names so that no one can keep track of who is abusing who. Anarchy, in other words.

Desertrat

Apr 17, 2004, 06:50 PM

numediaman, there's a firearms website that's totally unmoderated, or at least it once was. It seems to be inhabited by those for whom the longest five years of their lives was third grade. The majority of their vocabulary seems to involve variants of the four-letter copulative verb, although quite a few have serious knowledge of firearms.

It's quite easy to start all manner of squabbles and flame wars and sit back and enjoy it--if one is in a truly masochistic mood. Or, maybe, sadistic, depending on one's view.

I disremember the exact name of the website; I visited once, from curiosity and never went back. :)

It's also quite easy to stir up fusses at Democratic Underground, for that matter...

'Rat

3rdpath

Apr 17, 2004, 07:03 PM

Krizoitz

Apr 17, 2004, 07:52 PM

I agree that there are some people who are intentionally antagonistic, but I think that some people are having trouble acknowledging other peoples views.

Obviously if someone disagrees with you you aren't expected to like their idea, but some people have such strong views on the issues discussed here that they take the opinions too personally. Its natural but I think if people took a few deep breaths before posting it would really really help out.

I know it can be done, DavisBAnimal and I have some very different views on issues but I have always found him to be respectful in his disagreement. I think if we strived to be more respectful even while disagreeing it would help alot.

Then again there are some people who will never do so, I guess the best option is to try and ignore their inflamatory comments. Its just tough sometimes to judge what is intentionally inflamatory and what is just something you disagree with.

Backtothemac

Apr 17, 2004, 08:04 PM

quite frankly, i think everyone was behaving quite well until one poster spammed things up.

i enjoy a debate...but i've found myself responding in harsh ways to the inane posts of recent...so i guess the ignore list is my best option.

and yes...i'm even enjoying the new left wing liberal backtothemac... ;) though i find myself wanting to post ultraconservative responses for some reason...

LOL. Actually, I have become way, way more moderate over the last two years, and while sometimes I think you guys are out of your minds. I have to say, you have ALL had an effect on the new softer, lighter, more compationate B2TM. I looked back over some of my posts the last few years, and whew. Man, I was a major ass sometimes. So, to all those I have offended over the years, I am sorry.

If you ever want a great read, go look at the 1st Mac's and Politics thread. Those were the days.

skunk

Apr 17, 2004, 08:18 PM

LOL. Actually, I have become way, way more moderate over the last two years, and while sometimes I think you guys are out of your minds. I have to say, you have ALL had an effect on the new softer, lighter, more compationate B2TM. I looked back over some of my posts the last few years, and whew. Man, I was a major ass sometimes. So, to all those I have offended over the years, I am sorry.
Let's have a hug. :D

I admit, I've been reacting too strongly to Mr Wind-Up, for which I apologize, but, provocative as the vast number of his posts has been, I've actually found myself agreeing with him once. Ignoring doesn't really work, does it? He has posted one or two interesting (if scary) links. If he slowed down a bit and thought a bit longer before posting, it wouldn't be such a tiresome barrage. You know who you are: how about it?

Backtothemac

Apr 17, 2004, 08:20 PM

Let's have a hug. :D

I admit, I've been reacting too strongly to Mr Wind-Up, for which I apologize, but, provocative as the vast number of his posts has been, I've actually found myself agreeing with him once. Ignoring doesn't really work, does it? He has posted one or two interesting (if scary) links. If he slowed down a bit and thought a bit longer before posting, it wouldn't be such a tiresome barrage. You know who you are: how about it?

Skunk comes to the table with an offer. Nice.

I agree that sometimes we go off a little. I seem to remember going off on you a time or two ;)

Still, we are all adults, and I personally have gained a lot from the threads over the years.

King Cobra

Apr 17, 2004, 08:38 PM

skunk!!!! Nice to hear from you again!

Heh, well, as I see it, these forums used to be way out of control in 2003...you couldn't go into the Wasteland without noticing that half of the threads were politically based. Now, it's back to old-fashioned spam.

skunk

Apr 17, 2004, 08:41 PM

skunk!!!! Nice to hear from you again.

Yo, KC. Long time no post! :)

numediaman

Apr 17, 2004, 08:47 PM

numediaman, there's a firearms website that's totally unmoderated, or at least it once was. It seems to be inhabited by those for whom the longest five years of their lives was third grade. The majority of their vocabulary seems to involve variants of the four-letter copulative verb, although quite a few have serious knowledge of firearms.
'Rat

Sorry, not for me -- I don't know a damn thing about guns. (wouldn't you know it).

Actually, I don't agree with the very premise of this thread. I think everyone has been relatively civil. Gee wiz (I wanted to use a different expression), I got yelled at (in a private message) for using the word "stupid".

Golly gee (again, I'd normally use a different expression), I use words far worse words when having to fix people's PCs.

SlyHunter

Apr 17, 2004, 09:01 PM

Let's have a hug. :D

I admit, I've been reacting too strongly to Mr Wind-Up, for which I apologize, but, provocative as the vast number of his posts has been, I've actually found myself agreeing with him once. Ignoring doesn't really work, does it? He has posted one or two interesting (if scary) links. If he slowed down a bit and thought a bit longer before posting, it wouldn't be such a tiresome barrage. You know who you are: how about it?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=68040
Read the last paragraph marked in red of the first post in this thread and compare the time stamp to your original post above.

Desertrat

Apr 17, 2004, 09:05 PM

:) You don't need to know anything about guns, nor even give a hoot about'em. They have a pretty-much any-subject forum for general discussion. I gotta give'em credit for one thing: They give links to filters so parents can keep their kids off the site.

http://www.hardcoretalk.com

What I've found is that if I very rarely use "strong language", when I do cut loose I have serious credibility. Being known for being calm, laid-back and even-tempered means I can have a pretty good impact with even a mild, faked temper tantrum. :)

I've never been much on calling names. I prefer to suggest to some blatherbrain that when he arrives home, his mother will likely crawl from beneath the porch and bite him.

However, being polylingual in strong and insulting language can be "very fun". :D

'Rat

Rower_CPU

Apr 18, 2004, 12:07 AM

...
Some input from a mod wouldn't go amiss at this point.

I've been here. ;)

I keep saying people need to use the report post function and let us know about rule violations, but I'm still not seeing any reports. In case you haven't picked it up since the forum update, use the "warning sign" icon (triangle with an exclamation point in it).

I honestly end up scanning most of the posts in a thread unless a particular poster has been acting up and then I read their posts more carefully. A little help goes a long way. :)

Backtothemac

Apr 18, 2004, 12:08 AM

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5028

Read through this thread, and look how polite everyone was, how well the debate was debated, and how much there was to learn.

Thomas Veil

Apr 18, 2004, 01:48 AM

Well, my first forum experience was MAF (including MiniThink); then AAF, where surliness and rudeness were considered part of certain people's "charm".

Needless to say, I left that place because I found the discourse here to be more civil. I'd hate to see that change.

diamond geezer

Apr 18, 2004, 05:38 PM

I must admit that I've been banned previously, so nowadays I tend to just post new topics, then sit back and let everyone else argue.

Of course, sometimes I just can't help myself.

mcrain

Apr 19, 2004, 12:15 PM

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5028

Read through this thread, and look how polite everyone was, how well the debate was debated, and how much there was to learn.

Been a long time buddy. A long time. I personally have very little interest in debating with people who were not open minded about the possiblity that they might be wrong (Not you, and I know I'm wrong about some things), so I have avoided this site for a long time.

Hi again.

zimv20

Apr 19, 2004, 12:18 PM

Hi again.
hi.

you stickin' around? if so -- welcome back!

mcrain

Apr 19, 2004, 12:25 PM

hi.

you stickin' around? if so -- welcome back!

I haven't decided yet. I love my mac, but the mac forums got tired after a while.

Backtothemac

Apr 19, 2004, 03:48 PM

Been a long time buddy. A long time. I personally have very little interest in debating with people who were not open minded about the possiblity that they might be wrong (Not you, and I know I'm wrong about some things), so I have avoided this site for a long time.

Hi again.

Well, you will be happy to know that I have moved way left of the far right ;)

I completely understand what you mean. That old Macs and Politics thread was awesome. Well stated, sometimes spirited debate, but it was just that. Debate. Not mud slingging you know. Yea, I know I have done my share of the slingging in the day. ;) Great to see you back in here.

skunk

Apr 19, 2004, 03:51 PM

God, everyone is being so NICE :p

zimv20

Apr 19, 2004, 03:58 PM

all right -- i invite everyone over for a barbecue. saturday. afternoonish.

Sayhey

Apr 19, 2004, 04:01 PM

all right -- i invite everyone over for a barbecue. saturday. afternoonish.

Should I bring potato salad? oh, yeah, I'm assuming the flight to Chicago is on you or should I have IJ, stop by and pick me up in his plane? ;)

skunk

Apr 19, 2004, 04:02 PM

all right -- i invite everyone over for a barbecue. saturday. afternoonish.
Which Saturday? I'll have to get the Learjet serviced.

zimv20

Apr 19, 2004, 04:08 PM

King Cobra

Apr 19, 2004, 04:15 PM

Bring some colorful peppers and a lot of cajun spice for those cajun hamburgers (and that means something along the lines of dipping the hamburger into the spice as it's cooking, rather than putting the spice on the hamburger). Once you go cajun burgers, all the other burgers seem like they were done by a ********** wuss (or a newbie, or both).

And I'll stick with non-alcoholic beverages.

amnesiac1984

Apr 19, 2004, 04:25 PM

Once you go cajun burgers, all the other burgers seem like they were done by a ********** wuss (or a newbie, or both).

And I'll stick with non-alcoholic beverages.

Hehe, how can you call someone a wuss and then, IN THE SAME POST, say something like that? :D Or maybe there's something you know that I don't about non-alcoholic beverages! ;)

Sayhey

Apr 19, 2004, 04:37 PM

this saturday, of course. i am not picking up airfare, though i will buy food and some beer. sayhey, the potato salad sounds great.

everyone is welcome to bring beer, but as always, the house rule is: no bad beer

Do you like the potato salad with lots of pepper or mild? I'll have to see if IJ's private plane is available for a "car pool" to Chicago. Maybe Frohickey would want to go as well, but of course given his aversion to using tax payer services from all those stolen tax funds he will have to find his own way down once we reach Chicago. He couldn't possibly accept help from air traffic control. :D Now is Sam Adams or Guinness the house beer? (no Coors, please!)

King Cobra

Apr 19, 2004, 05:50 PM

Post content rated PG-13 for graphic description.

Hehe, how can you call someone a wuss and then, IN THE SAME POST, say something like that? :D Or maybe there's something you know that I don't about non-alcoholic beverages! ;)

Watch this: A significant consumption of alcohol, especially when one gets "wasted," can burn black holes along the pinkish lining of your small intestine. Yet even with small amounts of consumption, moods swings shift from initially casual to suddenly and contrastingly irritable. However, high consumption of alcohol is nearly fatal, because if you do get wasted, you risk the chance of choking on your own vomit (while you sleep), which causes you to lose your ability to breathe.

That is why I said non-alcoholic. A regular hamburger can't do all that.

zimv20

Apr 19, 2004, 06:28 PM

is Sam Adams or Guinness the house beer? (no Coors, please!)
house beer is goose island (local brewery). guinness, sierra nevada, anchor brewing, bell's, sam smith, ayinger, pilsner urquell, et. al. are most welcome

no american light pilsners!

amnesiac1984

Apr 19, 2004, 06:37 PM

Post content rated PG-13 for graphic description.

Watch this: A significant consumption of alcohol, especially when one gets "wasted," can burn black holes along the pinkish lining of your small intestine. Yet even with small amounts of consumption, moods swings shift from initially casual to suddenly and contrastingly irritable. However, high consumption of alcohol is nearly fatal, because if you do get wasted, you risk the chance of choking on your own vomit (while you sleep), which causes you to lose your ability to breathe.

That is why I said non-alcoholic. A regular hamburger can't do all that.

jeez, that definition of 'wasted' is way beyond i think i've ever been on alcohol. I made a little joke, I'm sorry it appeared to have back-fired.
:D :eek:

jefhatfield

Apr 19, 2004, 06:40 PM

house beer is goose island (local brewery). guinness, sierra nevada, anchor brewing, bell's, sam smith, ayinger, pilsner urquell, et. al. are most welcome

no american light pilsners!

i don't think we should advocate the use of alcohol here...there are minors...and no cigs...but cuban cigars are always cool

and no sex, especially between liberals and conservatives...sheesh

but then again, with the political forums the way they have been the last few days, i don't think any behavior or strong language will ever get anyone kicked off macrumors

there have been so many bannings in the past, maybe too much, that it has become obvious that the mods and gods have changed and are a lot more forgiving these days since the decency meter has been surpassed lately in a way i have never seen macrumors in four years

so bring on the beer and naked ladies...and have paris hilton tag along for kicks ;)

King Cobra

Apr 19, 2004, 06:49 PM

jeez, that definition of 'wasted' is way beyond i think i've ever been on alcohol. I made a little joke, I'm sorry it appeared to have back-fired.

lol. Sometimes it helps to think different about alcohol once in a while, or, at the least, think twice. But I'm one of those strange people (strange to some individuals, you know who you are) that doesn't like what nearly everyone else around me likes. In the case of alcohol, I explained why.

Or would that difference in personal tastes make me a wierd person instead of a strange person? (Wierd people kick ass.)

so bring on the beer and naked ladies...and have paris hilton tag along for kicks

Who's Paris Hilton? http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_shocked.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

3rdpath

Apr 19, 2004, 07:00 PM

hey, i'm in.

my wife is due to go into labor at any moment but i'm sure she'll understand my absence...this is, afterall, for world peace and decisions that will effect our political future for generations to come.

i'll bring the cuban cigars and bombay sapphire.

off to prep the G5...

amnesiac1984

Apr 19, 2004, 07:00 PM

lol. Sometimes it helps to think different about alcohol once in a while, or, at the least, think twice. But I'm one of those strange people (strange to some individuals, you know who you are) that doesn't like what nearly everyone else around me likes. In the case of alcohol, I explained why.

Or would that difference in personal tastes make me a wierd person instead of a strange person? (Wierd people kick ass.)

Well, I understand all those things you mention, but it doesn't mean I can't use it in moderation, and anyway its far from my favourite, umm, thing. There are far better substances health-wise than alcohol, but lets not drag this old debate up.

aint nothing wrong with weirdness, but being weird for the sake of being weird is just, well weird, and , ha what a paradox, if its weird, and I'm cool with weird I can't really have anything against it!

Who's Paris Hilton? http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/new_shocked.gif http://www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

some model, named after a hotel in France. :eek: