Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial

[NT1440]

Despite what you may believe, Blu-ray is the ONLY answer to Apple's survival.

:apple:

Are you seriously suggesting that Apple will go bankrupt if they don't adopt that stopgap media format?

Excuse me while I laugh for a while. :rolleyes:

[Eidorian]

The tech world is going diskless...

Solid State Drive > Hard Drive > Blu-Ray > DVD > CD-R > Floppy Disk > 1970's Disco DisksYou've intertwined a few too many conflicting media types there. What are " 1970's Disco Disks"?

[zw-gator]

There's a new ad out!

They're looking for a $700 laptop this time,LULZZZ!!

[Chihuahua1]

There's one thing that I've never been able to understand. Why do people still use PC's?

Macs run all of the best programs, Macs are faster, Macs crash less, Macs look freaking sweet :D, Macs come without **** on your drive, and Macs can dual-boot Windows for your PC executables and batch files.

[diamond.g]

There's one thing that I've never been able to understand. Why do people still use PC's?

Macs run all of the best programs, Macs are faster, Macs crash less, Macs look freaking sweet :D, Macs come without **** on your drive, and Macs can dual-boot Windows for your PC executables and batch files.

Honestly? Cause they are cheaper. I had this conversation yesterday with a co-worker. He would love to get a Mac but he can't justify spending hundreds of dollars more than a similarly equipped PC. He said if they were cheaper (he was looking at a 17") he would be more willing to buy.

[ilovefanboyz]

I think Apple is going to make an alternative... Instead of watching movies via blue disks, it would be nicer to watch movies via SD cards.

Disks (any spinning disks) are so 1970's

Blu-ray is old tech and Apple would never put it to their machines.



GUYS GUYS GUYS... It is wholeheartedly embarrassing that there are ANY arguments against putting Blu-Ray in a Mac. How can you lose by having more options???

Please listen to yourselves.. Are you the same people that argued against having SD cards in laptops?

Its the behaviour of people brainwashed by a cult that then leads to commercials like >

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/ads/#copy-and-paste-large

which had my entire room laughing.. I mean, can you imagine if the Pre ran this commercial? You guys would obliterate it....


Just trying to keep perspective

[iMacmatician]

Now, if Apple incorporates Blu-ray, it will not tank. Bet's off then.

But if not, bankrupt by 2012. At the latest.HA HA HA HA yeah right!

*Bookmarked*

[LagunaSol]

which had my entire room laughing..

Based on your history of relentless anti-Apple raging, I assume all Apple ads have your "entire room laughing" (where entire room = you, by yourself).

Troll Different.

[polaris20]

When Apple tanks, I will be laughing at you.

Remember this last exchange, as well as all our previous.

Now, if Apple incorporates Blu-ray, it will not tank. Bet's off then.

But if not, bankrupt by 2012. At the latest.

:apple:

Funny post!! Would read again!!

I'll go ahead and book mark this post, and re-visit in 2012 to see if Apple's in bankruptcy.

Then you'll be saying "oh yeah? Well, 2016, at the latest". And so on.

Typical troll.

Despite what you may believe, Blu-ray is the ONLY answer to Apple's survival.

:apple:

Proof? Anything to back up your claims?

[xbjllb]

Funny post!! Would read again!!

I'll go ahead and book mark this post, and re-visit in 2012 to see if Apple's in bankruptcy.

Then you'll be saying "oh yeah? Well, 2016, at the latest". And so on.

Typical troll.

Proof? Anything to back up your claims?

I went through the Amiga crash-and-burn. YOU didn't.

Talk to me in a couple of years. I stand on my experience.

In summation: No company who charged a premium for being cutting edge/having a superior product survived once it began chasing the lowest common denominator.

Not one. Apple is not, nor will it ever be, immune to history.

No matter how many are obliviously ignorant to it.

:apple:

[charlituna]

and horrific business strategy.


oh, because it is not what you would do it is a 'horrific business strategy'

as for your 'if they don't blu-ray that's the end' claims. highly doubtful. there is something just as good as blu-ray and that is honest to goodness HD downloads. not the 720 pseudo HD they have on the itunes store now, but real 1080-1200 dpi video. and this user is not going to be shocked if Apple is heading a charge in that direction as we speak. working on codecs that will get the files to a reasonable size, working out deals with the studios to allow the files to be created and sold etc.

and when those files start popping up, don't be surprised to see those blu-ray disks go down in sales. because the costs of hard drives are going down as well and it's a lot less clutter to have your movies on a hard drive.

oh and for the 1% of folks that really just gotta have blu-ray there is 3rd party. it's not like Apple locked out all blu-ray support so you can't even use that.

[Eulerfw]

oh, because it is not what you would do it is a 'horrific business strategy'

as for your 'if they don't blu-ray that's the end' claims. highly doubtful. there is something just as good as blu-ray and that is honest to goodness HD downloads. not the 720 pseudo HD they have on the itunes store now, but real 1080-1200 dpi video. and this user is not going to be shocked if Apple is heading a charge in that direction as we speak. working on codecs that will get the files to a reasonable size, working out deals with the studios to allow the files to be created and sold etc.

and when those files start popping up, don't be surprised to see those blu-ray disks go down in sales. because the costs of hard drives are going down as well and it's a lot less clutter to have your movies on a hard drive.

oh and for the 1% of folks that really just gotta have blu-ray there is 3rd party. it's not like Apple locked out all blu-ray support so you can't even use that.

I know a few people that use a Mac Mini as a HTPC. I would suppose a Blu-ray player for this would be a very nice addition.

[mosx]

oh, because it is not what you would do it is a 'horrific business strategy'

as for your 'if they don't blu-ray that's the end' claims. highly doubtful. there is something just as good as blu-ray and that is honest to goodness HD downloads. not the 720 pseudo HD they have on the itunes store now, but real 1080-1200 dpi video. and this user is not going to be shocked if Apple is heading a charge in that direction as we speak. working on codecs that will get the files to a reasonable size, working out deals with the studios to allow the files to be created and sold etc.

and when those files start popping up, don't be surprised to see those blu-ray disks go down in sales. because the costs of hard drives are going down as well and it's a lot less clutter to have your movies on a hard drive.

oh and for the 1% of folks that really just gotta have blu-ray there is 3rd party. it's not like Apple locked out all blu-ray support so you can't even use that.

Uh.. 1%? Blu-ray is being adopted at twice the rate DVD was. At the ~2.5 year mark, DVD was at 4% market penetration. Blu-ray at 2.5 years was at 8%. You have to remember that DVD is now 12 years old, and it was a full 6 years before it passed the 50% mark. Thats right, VHS was still going strong with more than 50% marketshare into 2003.

Another thing to remember is that not everyone has an Apple TV or similar device. More people own blu-ray players than devices like the Apple TV. Not everyone is willing to connect their PC to their home entertainment system. The only devices with enough market penetration to combat blu-ray and rely entirely on online distribution are the Xbox360 and PS3. But guess what? At the rate blu-ray is being adopted, there will be more blu-ray players than game consoles in the not so distant future. Plus not everyone has their PS3 or Xbox360 connected to an HDTV. A blu-ray player, however, is guaranteed to be connected to one.

The most important factor in all of this is bandwidth. Those downloads you're talking about tend to use H.264 or VC-1 video. Guess what blu-ray uses? Exactly. The only way to get the files smaller than blu-ray discs is to take quality down dramatically. Right now, iTunes 720p downloads are at 4.5Mbps. The quality is awful on the majority of movies, but we'll leave that for another discussion. 1080p is literally double the resolution of 720p. So let's say, for sake of argument, that you would need at least double the bitrate. So to get a 1080p movie at ~9Mbps, that means you're cutting the bitrate compared to blu-ray video anywhere from 50-75%. You'd also have to throw out the other neat things blu-ray has, like uncompressed PCM audio, or even the lossless audio tracks. You'd have to go back to compressed audio.

Why should people take a huge step backwards in quality? Thats what would happen to get 1080p video down to just double the size of current iTunes downloads. That means an average movie would be around 8-10GB too. Aside from a couple of Asian countries and a few select places in the US/EU that have fiber optic connections to the home, can you show me where the average person would have the ability to download 8 to 10GB in a reasonable amount of time? I have 10Mbps, I can get 20. Verizon will have FiOS here soon and I can get up to 50 (if I want to pay an outrageous monthly fee). Even at 50Mbps, it'd still be faster for me to WALK to the local grocery store and pull the blu-ray disc out of the Red Box machine.

Apple hasn't directly locked out blu-ray support, but OS X can't play blu-ray discs. Leopard and even Snow Leopard are incapable of fully utilizing the GPU in ways necessary to decode blu-ray video (don't bring up OpenCL, its totally unrelated). Full bitstream decoding is required for blu-ray because the bitrates are so high that pretty much any Core 2 Duo will choke. Don't try to talk about your downloaded MKV files either ;) Those tend to have 1/10th to 1/4 the bitrate blu-ray has. Plus Macs don't ship with HDMI. While you can convert mini DisplayPort to HDMI (since Apple doesn't support HDCP on the DVI based Macs), you don't get audio support. That means you're stuck with optical output, and the SPDIF standard it uses does NOT support the lossless formats or uncompressed PCM up to 8 channels, only stereo PCM.

On the topic of HDMI, theres really no reason Apple couldn't have shipped HDMI. Mini HDMI with audio support has been a part of the HDMI 1.3 standard for several years now. It's about the same size as mini DisplayPort. The difference? HDMI has a small licensing fee (4 cents per device, $10,000 annual fee) while DisplayPort is royalty free and they can pocket every single dollar of that ridiculously expensive adapter they sell you. And yes, HDMI CAN drive the 30" Cinema Display. The 1.3 standard supports the resolution over HDMI, since standard 1.3 supports 2560x1600 @ 75Hz, 24-bit over single link HDMI. Mini HDMI (not the newer revised plug) was introduced with 1.3, back in June of 2006. When Apple updated the MacBook Pro and MacBook to Core 2 Duo they could have began shipping mini HDMI at that point. The "Napa" platform for the Core 2 Duo (even Core Duo) supported 8 channel LPCM over HDMI, and HDMI 1.3 brought support for the lossless audio codecs found in blu-ray and HD DVD

[charlituna]

Uh.. 1%? Blu-ray is being adopted at twice the rate DVD was. At the ~2.5 year mark, DVD was at 4% market penetration. Blu-ray at 2.5 years was at 8%.


that is all talking about stand alone players attached to TVs which is NOT an indication of the market for drives in computers


Another thing to remember is that not everyone has an Apple TV or similar device. More people own blu-ray players than devices like the Apple TV. Not everyone is willing to connect their PC to their home entertainment system.


fine and dandy. so they don't. they get a stand alone player.

again, not an indication of the market for drives in computers. which again, is what is being talked about -- the alleged idiocy of Apple for calling Blu-ray 'a bag of hurt' and not being the first to put blu-ray drives in all their computers.

The only way to get the files smaller than blu-ray discs is to take quality down dramatically.


at this exact moment yes. HOWEVER, there was a time when files were much much bigger and looked horrid compared to what there is now. and it wasn't that long ago.

if companies wanted to have 1080 res files at a reasonable size then they work on new codecs and try to come up with a solution.


Why should people take a huge step backwards in quality?


aside from the ubergeeks in a place like this or total video/audio junkies, how many folks can really tell the difference between compressed/uncompresssed audio or Stand def/High def or 720/1080. probably not as many as folks think.


On the topic of HDMI, theres really no reason Apple couldn't have shipped HDMI.


and the reason they should? because you (and a small handful of folks) said they should have. funny, a lot of that group are the ones calling Apple morons cause they haven't put blu-ray in their computers.

[mosx]

that is all talking about stand alone players attached to TVs which is NOT an indication of the market for drives in computers

And your argument fails in that regard too. I can walk into Best Buy or Fry's and walk out with a PC notebook that has blu-ray for under $1,000. It will also have HDMI and the ability to push 8 channel LPCM over HDMI. I can add a blu-ray drive to my existing notebook PC for $60. Thats an internal drive too. Desktop PC drives cost around the same, and many desktop PCs that are in the Mac mini price ranges ship with blu-ray.

For the same price as either the MacBook or low-end MacBook "Pro" I can get a notebook PC that has dedicated graphics that are faster than anything Apple currently ships out of the box (including the Mac Pro) and blu-ray, as well as larger screens, HDMI, etc.

again, not an indication of the market for drives in computers. which again, is what is being talked about -- the alleged idiocy of Apple for calling Blu-ray 'a bag of hurt' and not being the first to put blu-ray drives in all their computers.

Again, blu-ray is everywhere. Already own a notebook PC? As long as its no more than around 3 years old you can pop in an IDE blu-ray drive for about $60-$70. You can walk into any major electronics retailer and walk out with a blu-ray equipped notebook PC for under $1,000. You can walk into the same store and, for about the same price as the cheapest MacBook Pro, walk out with something that has blu-ray and is faster than any of the MacBook Pros.

There are even cheap USB blu-ray drives. You can get one for about $90 or so these days.

at this exact moment yes. HOWEVER, there was a time when files were much much bigger and looked horrid compared to what there is now. and it wasn't that long ago.

if companies wanted to have 1080 res files at a reasonable size then they work on new codecs and try to come up with a solution.

Do you realize how long it would take to develop something more efficient than H.264? Not only that, but make it a standard AND get hardware support? As it is right now, AVC HD (that would be H.264 high definition) running at blu-ray bitrates can only be decoded using specialized hardware or the GPU (not any of the Intel GPUs shipped in Macs) has to do all of the work. Making a codec more efficent than H.264 would most likely not run on current hardware, at least not current Macs since they tend to be behind the curve compared to the rest of the industry. H.264 is currently as good as it gets and it will be that way for the near future.

Plus there are still other issues. Even if you could get something around even the current 720p file size on iTunes, how many people are going to be okay with that? I mean, because of bandwidth. I have a 10Mbps connection and it still takes about an hour to download a 720p movie from iTunes. Why would I bother with that when I can go to the local Red Box or Hollywood Video and pick up the blu-ray disc in less than 10 minutes?

aside from the ubergeeks in a place like this or total video/audio junkies, how many folks can really tell the difference between compressed/uncompresssed audio or Stand def/High def or 720/1080. probably not as many as folks think.

The difference between standard definition and high definition is obvious on any digital display. Theres no way around it. If someone can't say just how bad standard definition material looks on a high definition display (not including DVD), then they truly do need to have their eyes checked.

As for audio.. well, just about every average person I know can tell the difference between the Dolby Digital Plus tracks on blu-ray and the lossless or uncompressed tracks. All it takes is playing the scene with compressed audio then switching tracks and playing the lossless/uncompressed track. Every single person I've demonstrated the difference for so far has been able to hear and FEEL the difference. Perfect example is The Dark Knight on blu-ray. In the scene in the movie when the Joker blows up the police car with the bazooka. When you listen to the DD Plus track, its a loud boom. The lossless track lets you hear the explosion rip through the car and you feel it in your stomach. Same thing for the hospital scene. Loud booming compressed, explosion ripping through the building and the building crumbling apart on lossless, plus you can feel it. Even the 11 year old 8" subwoofer I have in the bedroom gets brought to life by the lossless track in ways that the compressed audio never could push it.

and the reason they should? because you (and a small handful of folks) said they should have. funny, a lot of that group are the ones calling Apple morons cause they haven't put blu-ray in their computers.

Because HDMI has been a standard option on desktop PCs for about half a decade now. It's been a standard feature of notebook PCs for the last couple of years, and optional for about a year before that. HDMI is a standard feature on respectable computer monitors as well.

What's stupid is to make the consumer pay outrageous prices for adapters. It's good from a business standpoint, but is a clear sign that the company couldn't care less about their customers and only care about the shareholders.

[Eidorian]

mosx the desktop BD-ROM drives are just under ~$100 now. A USB external one for a notebook is still running about double that price.

Lets not forget GPU hardware accelerated playback. Intel just finally rolled that out on the GMA 4500HD for mobile hardware. HDMI has been around for ages on laptops. You're going to be pegging the CPU for playback unless you have a dedicated GPU that has hardware acceleration. The minimum there for full acceleration is the Radeon HD 2000 series or GeForce 8M.

[mosx]

Actually, you're quite wrong about the price. If you just want a drive thats a reader, newegg has blu-ray/DVD/CD readers for about $65. Combo (blu-ray reader/DVD + CD writer) drives start at $90. As for external: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BLK-EXT-NB-DVDRW-BD-R&cat=DVD Thats just one of many. Theres a Lite-On one floating around for about $120.

The Intel GMA 4500MHD has been around for nearly a year now. Apple was still shipping GMA X3100 based systems for months after the release of the newer Intel GPU, proving what I said about Apple being behind the curve.

Only Intel based notebooks under the $650 mark ship with Intel graphics anyway. HP and others (except Dell) generally offer dedicated graphics or nvidia chipsets above that price range. AMD based notebooks below and in that price range ship with the Radeon 3200 or 34x0 line as well.

Also, GPUs as far back as the GeForce 7 line (not including integrated) and Radeons better than the X1200 offer H.264 hardware acceleration and full bitstream decoding. Even the GeForce Go 7300 in the Apple TV is capable of playing blu-ray video, but Apple's extremely limited software does everything IN software rather than using the available hardware. Thats why its limited to such poor quality 720p video.

The GeForce 8 line was launched in 2006 anyway. So, it's pretty difficult to find a PC product that isn't a netbook that can't play blu-ray with a simple drive upgrade. It is, however, impossible to play blu-ray on any Apple product and be able to fully take advantage of the capabilities of blu-ray, and the vast majority of Apple products sold up until the UniBody revision (since the MacBook was the most popular Mac) can't support blu-ray video at all!

[Eidorian]

Actually, you're quite wrong about the price. If you just want a drive thats a reader, newegg has blu-ray/DVD/CD readers for about $65. Combo (blu-ray reader/DVD + CD writer) drives start at $90. As for external: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BLK-EXT-NB-DVDRW-BD-R&cat=DVD Thats just one of many. Theres a Lite-On one floating around for about $120.Refurbished with a 90-day warranty. That explains the price.

Only Intel based notebooks under the $650 mark ship with Intel graphics anyway. HP and others (except Dell) generally offer dedicated graphics or nvidia chipsets above that price range. AMD based notebooks below and in that price range ship with the Radeon 3200 or 34x0 line as well.The 3200 is the M780G.

Also, GPUs as far back as the GeForce 7 line (not including integrated) and Radeons better than the X1200 offer H.264 hardware acceleration and full bitstream decoding. Even the GeForce Go 7300 in the Apple TV is capable of playing blu-ray video, but Apple's extremely limited software does everything IN software rather than using the available hardware. Thats why its limited to such poor quality 720p video.You didn't get full bitstream decoding until the Radeon HD 2xxx or GeForce 8 Series (post-G80).

The GeForce 8 line was launched in 2006 anyway. So, it's pretty difficult to find a PC product that isn't a netbook that can't play blu-ray with a simple drive upgrade. It is, however, impossible to play blu-ray on any Apple product and be able to fully take advantage of the capabilities of blu-ray, and the vast majority of Apple products sold up until the UniBody revision (since the MacBook was the most popular Mac) can't support blu-ray video at all!The G80 used the original VP1. You had to wait until April 2007 to get VP2 on the G84/G86 and then later on the G92.

[xbjllb]

Why should people take a huge step backwards in quality?

Thanks for an excellent post with many good points. I just wanted to answer your question.

The answer is piracy. Consumers took a giant step backwards with mp3 "over" CD, because mp3's were, for the most part, free. Apple and Jobs are counting on the same mindset for the eventual widespread piracy of movies. Which is why Jobs and his minions here are so deadset against Blu-ray; the anti-piracy features.

Piracy sold millions of iPods; piracy and iPod sales created the iTunes store, creating more revenue for Apple as it "solved" the problem they themselves had created (Create problem, then solution, profiting from both).

They are trying to profit off video piracy in the same manner, and Sony, presenting a theft-proof solution, gets in the way of them profiting off a problem they're trying to perpetuate; piracy.

It's very ugly, it's very callous, it's the height of US capitalism at its worst, but there it is. Progress suffers because of greed.

Not a shred different than oil companies buying up competing and higher mileage technologies and sitting on them.

People who live that way often end up poisoning themselves.

It's also why Apple will fail, and in this case, most deservedly so. I've done all I can to try and turn it around, but in the end, piracy and greed will win at Apple. And when corporations like Sony finally beat piracy, and have no reservations about it, they will, Apple, counting on piracy going on forever, will go bankrupt. Not just from missing the Blu-ray boat, but from neglecting their high end big ticket base in favor of the lowest common denominator.

Bankruptcy for Apple is not what I wanted. But I always knew, in the back of my mind, after sticking with Amiga for more than a decade, I'd somehow pick the loser yet again.

:apple:

[polaris20]

I went through the Amiga crash-and-burn. YOU didn't.

Talk to me in a couple of years. I stand on my experience.

In summation: No company who charged a premium for being cutting edge/having a superior product survived once it began chasing the lowest common denominator.

Not one. Apple is not, nor will it ever be, immune to history.

No matter how many are obliviously ignorant to it.

:apple:

I didn't know that you knew me that well. :rolleyes:

I've been around for a lot longer than the Amiga crash, thanks. You make a highly arrogant assumption that everyone here just started with computers in the last 10 years or shorter except you.

Again, I'll see you in 2012, when you're wrong.

[bobriot]

It's also why Apple will fail, and in this case, most deservedly so. I've done all I can to try and turn it around, but in the end, piracy and greed will win at Apple.:apple:

Everything eventually fails, just enjoy it while it lasts baby. We will all be using Google chrome sooner or later anyway.

[gwerhart0800]

Honestly? Cause they are cheaper. I had this conversation yesterday with a co-worker. He would love to get a Mac but he can't justify spending hundreds of dollars more than a similarly equipped PC. He said if they were cheaper (he was looking at a 17") he would be more willing to buy.

I just went through this exercise with my college bound son. He is attending the University of Colorado at Boulder. They have on campus support for Apple and Dell products. (Meaning, for any Apple or Dell PC/Laptop under warranty, you can take the system to their repair depot and they will fix it.) Additionally, we asked at orientation if there was a preference and were told that they only required a fairly recent version of Microsoft Office products, but individual colleges within the university might have additional requirements. So, my son and I started our own "laptop hunt", with the exception that I was going to be the one to pay for it. He was looking for portability, battery life and ease of use. From conversations with others, larger laptops (16-17") were difficult to use for note taking because of limited "desk" space in most classrooms. So, we were focused on 13-15" laptops. Also, he has been a PC gamer (WoW) for a few years, but really wants to kick the habit, so gaming was NOT a priority.

We went to Best Buy to play with the various Apple and Dell models on display. The comment on the Dell systems was ... wow, they are big and heavy (Studio 15). He played with the 13" uMBP and liked the size and battery life. So, we decided that a 13" would be the best fit. We went home and tried to configure a Dell M1330 with similar features to the 13" uMBP, but the price ended up being around the same as the Apple laptop and the extra life battery was going to stick out like a wart. Additionally, Dell was going to be unable to deliver the M1330 until mid-august ... Apple could deliver in 5-7 business days. I pointed out to him that I needed, we could configure the Apple to boot either Mac OS X or Windows XP via boot camp.

Final decision: Apple 13" MacBook Pro.

[mrochester]

I just went through this exercise with my college bound son. He is attending the University of Colorado at Boulder. They have on campus support for Apple and Dell products. (Meaning, for any Apple or Dell PC/Laptop under warranty, you can take the system to their repair depot and they will fix it.) Additionally, we asked at orientation if there was a preference and were told that they only required a fairly recent version of Microsoft Office products, but individual colleges within the university might have additional requirements. So, my son and I started our own "laptop hunt", with the exception that I was going to be the one to pay for it. He was looking for portability, battery life and ease of use. From conversations with others, larger laptops (16-17") were difficult to use for note taking because of limited "desk" space in most classrooms. So, we were focused on 13-15" laptops. Also, he has been a PC gamer (WoW) for a few years, but really wants to kick the habit, so gaming was NOT a priority.

We went to Best Buy to play with the various Apple and Dell models on display. The comment on the Dell systems was ... wow, they are big and heavy (Studio 15). He played with the 13" uMBP and liked the size and battery life. So, we decided that a 13" would be the best fit. We went home and tried to configure a Dell M1330 with similar features to the 13" uMBP, but the price ended up being around the same as the Apple laptop and the extra life battery was going to stick out like a wart. Additionally, Dell was going to be unable to deliver the M1330 until mid-august ... Apple could deliver in 5-7 business days. I pointed out to him that I needed, we could configure the Apple to boot either Mac OS X or Windows XP via boot camp.

Final decision: Apple 13" MacBook Pro.

That must only work in the US. In the UK, a better specced Dell laptop is £100 cheaper than the bottom end 13" MBP.

[avkills]

not the 720 pseudo HD they have on the itunes store now, but real 1080-1200 dpi video.

This has got to be one of the biggest "I don't have a clue what I am talking about statements" in a long time.

1. 720p is considered HD by everyone in the professional realm of video

2. Video is not measured by dpi.

Hats off for making me laugh this morning. :rolleyes:

-mark

[AidenShaw]

1. 720p is considered HD by everyone in the professional realm of video


Second class HD, but HD.

[avkills]

Second class HD, but HD.

Uh yeah, whatever you say. I guess since I've been doing stuff at 3840x1080 that would be Über HD. ;) Wheeee!

Even right now as we speak, some stations do 720p while others do 1080i, at least the over the air/analog cable. I think the digital cable still gets ****ed over to 1080p highly compressed MPEG-4 with possible audio sync issues no matter what the source is -- but I don't have digital cable so I would not know for a fact. :D

-mark

[diamond.g]

I just went through this exercise with my college bound son. He is attending the University of Colorado at Boulder. They have on campus support for Apple and Dell products. (Meaning, for any Apple or Dell PC/Laptop under warranty, you can take the system to their repair depot and they will fix it.) Additionally, we asked at orientation if there was a preference and were told that they only required a fairly recent version of Microsoft Office products, but individual colleges within the university might have additional requirements. So, my son and I started our own "laptop hunt", with the exception that I was going to be the one to pay for it. He was looking for portability, battery life and ease of use. From conversations with others, larger laptops (16-17") were difficult to use for note taking because of limited "desk" space in most classrooms. So, we were focused on 13-15" laptops. Also, he has been a PC gamer (WoW) for a few years, but really wants to kick the habit, so gaming was NOT a priority.

We went to Best Buy to play with the various Apple and Dell models on display. The comment on the Dell systems was ... wow, they are big and heavy (Studio 15). He played with the 13" uMBP and liked the size and battery life. So, we decided that a 13" would be the best fit. We went home and tried to configure a Dell M1330 with similar features to the 13" uMBP, but the price ended up being around the same as the Apple laptop and the extra life battery was going to stick out like a wart. Additionally, Dell was going to be unable to deliver the M1330 until mid-august ... Apple could deliver in 5-7 business days. I pointed out to him that I needed, we could configure the Apple to boot either Mac OS X or Windows XP via boot camp.

Final decision: Apple 13" MacBook Pro.

In my co-workers case the 13" is too small and for the price of the 15" he could get an HP 17" with similar specs.

[polaris20]

I went through the Amiga crash-and-burn. YOU didn't.

Talk to me in a couple of years. I stand on my experience.

In summation: No company who charged a premium for being cutting edge/having a superior product survived once it began chasing the lowest common denominator.

Not one. Apple is not, nor will it ever be, immune to history.

No matter how many are obliviously ignorant to it.

:apple:

Just so we understand each other, you're saying if Apple doesn't implement BD by 2012, they will go under, right?

And is that by Jan 1st, 2012, or December 31st, 2012? I'm just asking because I'm setting my Google calendar and need to know for accuracy's sake. :D

[gwerhart0800]

In my co-workers case the 13" is too small and for the price of the 15" he could get an HP 17" with similar specs.

Because of the on-campus support for Apple & Dell, there was an artificial constraint that did not allow us to consider alternatives from other manufacturers. The point was that in our case, Apple was a valid choice. I could have told my son that he would have to make do with a $500 laptop with a 2 hour battery and an extra 2-3 pounds of weight. If you want something cheap, there are plenty of alternatives, but for us, there were other factors that made the 13" uMBP a solid choice. BTW, the lack of "crapware" on the brand new 13" uMBP was great. The last HP laptop I purchased for my wife had a huge amount of crapware on it that took many hours to remove.

I do hope that Apple can lower the entry point for their products to increase their market share. Price is the number one barrier to entry for people wanting to switch from Microsoft based PC/Laptops to Apple products.

[Tallest Skil]

Talk to me in a couple of years. I stand on my experience.

It's a deal. See you in 2012. Hope you can stand laughter.

[polaris20]

It's a deal. See you in 2012. Hope you can stand laughter.

What experience does he have? So he bought into Amiga, got burnt, and now he's trying to funnel his past frustrations into Apple, and somehow making that into "business experience".

Amiga was passed around like a village bimbo until it finally died out. I'd like for him to explain to me how that is similar to Apple. Apple has proven to be functional even without Jobs with this current absence (unlike the late 90's) and if they do go under, it most definitely will not be singularly due to lack of a physical media.

You might as well make outlandish claims that Microsoft is going to die soon too, because that's just as ridiculous.

[LagunaSol]

Second class HD, but HD.

Isn't this like the whole "Lossless vs. AAC" debate? Or perhaps even the "vinyl vs. CD" debate?

Most consumers wouldn't notice the difference between 720 and 1080, and wouldn't care if they did.

[polaris20]

Isn't this like the whole "Lossless vs. AAC" debate? Or perhaps even the "vinyl vs. CD" debate?

Most consumers wouldn't notice the difference between 720 and 1080, and wouldn't care if they did.

According to some our our esteemed members many people can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, and would most definitely care.

Having assisted with setting up many people's computers, TV's, etc most of them don't even know what the difference between 1080p and 720p is. They just know they want "HD". Obviously this is anecdotal, but I find it highly unlikely the mass majority of people are that picky.

I like Blu Ray on my LCD 1080p, but I really have no desire whatsoever to watch them on my laptop. Anyone who has traveled marginally for their job knows physical media is a pain when you're on a flight, sitting on a train, sitting in an airport/train depot, etc.

I'd like to be able to rip my movies to watch on my laptop just as I rip my CD's to be listened to on my computer or iPod. I bought them, I should be able to view/listen to my media as I please. For this reason a BD player on a laptop would be nice (though an external one would be perfectly fine).

Unfortunately I am not able to do that with BD (or DVD) legally because of their draconian DRM crap. To me that's unacceptable.

Unlike some of the tinfoil hat wearing folks in this thread that think DRM is good, there are honest people like me out there who purchase the movie media, and would like to use it as they please, just as they do their music.

Luckily Apple has made progress with removing DRM from music, but I doubt they'll succeed with TV/movies, because of the studios continuing desire to live in the last century.

[diamond.g]

Unfortunately I am not able to do that with BD (or DVD) legally because of their draconian DRM crap. To me that's unacceptable.
You can with BD. It is apart of the specification, called Managed Copy.
The problem is so far no players support it. Chalk it up to the content owners looking for ways to screw the customer. The rumor mill is thinking that it won't be free to do the conversion. Which is opposite of the trend of including a digital copy for free...

[avkills]

Oh I can definitely tell the difference between 720p and 1080i/p, but the simple fact is they are both considered viable "HD" signals; so it kind of burns me when ignorant market following fanbois of everyone's "Full HD" ******** marketing fluff spout off. :D Carry on.

I doubt Apple will go the way of Amiga; even though I credit Amiga forcing Wintel and Apple to get off their lazy asses and make decent computers. When Amiga was released it wiped the floor of both of them hands down.

-mark

[AidenShaw]

so it kind of burns me when ignorant market following fanbois of everyone's "Full HD" ******** marketing fluff spout off.

The powers that be should rebrand 720p as MD - Medium Definition.

Problem solved.

[xbjllb]

Just so we understand each other, you're saying if Apple doesn't implement BD by 2012, they will go under, right?

And is that by Jan 1st, 2012, or December 31st, 2012? I'm just asking because I'm setting my Google calendar and need to know for accuracy's sake. :D

Set your calendar to the end of the Mayan Calendar. Either argued date for it will do.

IF Apple hasn't added Blu-ray by then.

:apple:

[xbjllb]

It's a deal. See you in 2012. Hope you can stand laughter.

MUCH better than you can stand choking to death on crow.

:apple:

[xbjllb]

Oh I can definitely tell the difference between 720p and 1080i/p, but the simple fact is they are both considered viable "HD" signals; so it kind of burns me when ignorant market following fanbois of everyone's "Full HD" ******** marketing fluff spout off. :D Carry on.

I doubt Apple will go the way of Amiga; even though I credit Amiga forcing Wintel and Apple to get off their lazy asses and make decent computers. When Amiga was released it wiped the floor of both of them hands down.

-mark

Thanks. Finally someone who was REALLY there. And Amiga never forsaked the cutting edge for iCrap either, and thereby crapping on their high end video content creator base.

:apple:

[AidenShaw]

Just so we understand each other, you're saying if Apple doesn't implement BD by 2012, they will go under, right?

And is that by Jan 1st, 2012, or December 31st, 2012? I'm just asking because I'm setting my Google calendar and need to know for accuracy's sake. :D

xbjllib has a safe bet - Apple will introduce Blu-ray within a year, and they won't go down in 2012.

You realize, of course, that as soon as Apple supports Blu-ray (which it must) - you lose the bet?

[mosx]

Refurbished with a 90-day warranty. That explains the price.

Good job ignoring the rest of the post you quoted. Including the Lite-On drive thats out there for $120, new.

The 3200 is the M780G.

Point being? It's still a GPU capable of playing blu-ray discs, and not just half assing it the way Intel's 4500MHD does. It's been around in notebooks since well before Apple went nvidia.

You didn't get full bitstream decoding until the Radeon HD 2xxx or GeForce 8 Series (post-G80).

The manufacturer sites beg to differ.

The G80 used the original VP1. You had to wait until April 2007 to get VP2 on the G84/G86 and then later on the G92.

Again, nvidia begs to differ. But this is macrumors, and people here have a tendency to argue against what manufacturers say, even when its the manufacturer's product in question.

Piracy sold millions of iPods; piracy and iPod sales created the iTunes store, creating more revenue for Apple as it "solved" the problem they themselves had created (Create problem, then solution, profiting from both).

Thats actually quite true. But nobody around here will admit that;)

[avkills]

It is not like it would be hard for Apple to support BluRay. They probably already have it ready to go; but are waiting to see if it dies. Since there are so many movie on demand services that I myself am not putting my bets on BluRay being around much longer, as far as entertainment purposes are concerned.

Besides, holographic storage crystals are waaayyy coooler!! :cool:

-mark

[Eidorian]

Good job ignoring the rest of the post you quoted. Including the Lite-On drive thats out there for $120, new.A link please.


The manufacturer sites beg to differ.

Again, nvidia begs to differ. But this is macrumors, and people here have a tendency to argue against what manufacturers say, even when its the manufacturer's product in question. Please show me where the G80 or RV600 supported full h.264/VC-1 hardware acceleration. You had to wait until the G84/86 or RV610/630 for it. This is a wonderful trip back to late 2006 and 2007 for facts that are burned into my memory over this one little thing.

[diamond.g]

A link please.


Please show me where the G80 or RV600 supported full h.264/VC-1 hardware acceleration. You had to wait until the G84/86 or RV610/630 for it. This is a wonderful trip back to late 2006 and 2007 for facts that are burned into my memory over this one little thing.

I thought they only had partial h.264/VC-1 acceleration. I believe the IDTC and CABAC/CAVLC acceleration is missing. See PDF from Nvidia (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/CP/11036/PureVideo_Product_Comparison.pdf). It seems to be an Apple standard to not support all the features of a GPU out of the box. I guess cause it makes it harder for them to show how awesome the CPU upgrades are.

[AidenShaw]

A link please.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100598%2050001336&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&FieldChange=Y&FieldChoose=16%2C14
LITE-ON Black Blu-ray Disc Combo SATA Model iHES208-08 - Retail
Model #: iHES208-08
Your Price: $119.99

LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Reader SATA Model iHOS104-06 - OEM
Model #: iHOS104-06
Free Shipping
Your Price: $69.99

LITE-ON Black 6X Blu-Ray DVD ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model iHES106-29 - OEM
Model #: iHES106-29
Your Price: $99.99

LITE-ON Black BD-COMBO SATA Model ihes108-29 - OEM
Model #: ihes108-29
Your Price: $99.99

LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Disc Reader SATA Model iHOS104-08 - Retail
Model #: iHOS104-08
Free Shipping
Your Price: $69.99

LITE-ON Black Blu-Ray DVD Drive & DVD Burner with LightScribe SATA Model iHES206-08 - Retail
Model #: iHES206-08
Free Shipping
Your Price: $99.99

[Eidorian]

I thought they only had partial h.264/VC-1 acceleration. I believe the IDTC and CABAC/CAVLC acceleration is missing. See PDF from Nvidia (http://www.nvidia.com/docs/CP/11036/PureVideo_Product_Comparison.pdf). It seems to be an Apple standard to not support all the features of a GPU out of the box. I guess cause it makes it harder for them to show how awesome the CPU upgrades are.My point exactly. You had partial support.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100598%2050001336&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&FieldChange=Y&FieldChoose=16%2C14Those are 5.25" drives though.

[AidenShaw]

Those are 5.25" drives though.

I've never seen a 3.5" BD/DVD/CD drive, though.


:D

[Eidorian]

I've never seen a 3.5" BD/DVD/CD drive, though.


:DAmusing but the discussion was over USB external BD drives and preferably for a notebook.

[polaris20]

xbjllib has a safe bet - Apple will introduce Blu-ray within a year, and they won't go down in 2012.

You realize, of course, that as soon as Apple supports Blu-ray (which it must) - you lose the bet?

The bet is that if Apple does NOT implement BD by 2012 (Dec. 23rd now, according to xbjllib) it will go out of business, according to xbjllib. I say that if by that time they still have not implemented BD, they will NOT go out of business due to this.

If they do implement it, then obviously the bet is void; neither one of us "win".

[diamond.g]

My point exactly. You had partial support.

Those are 5.25" drives though.

Oh, I never claimed it had full support. I was just noting that there is some support and Apple chooses not to use it, again.

[AidenShaw]

Amusing but the discussion was over USB external BD drives and preferably for a notebook.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4621073&CatId=3634

http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/L600-2000-Main03-jl.jpg

Liondisk LBLU Blu-Ray Reader/DVD Writer - 2X BD-ROM, 4x DVD+R, 8X DVD+RW, 4x DVD-R, 8X DVD-RW

Item Number: L600-2000
Availability: Order Today, Ships Today

Price: $129.99

I didn't see the Lite-ON DX-401S at Newegg or Tiger...

[Eidorian]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4621073&CatId=3634

http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/L600-2000-Main03-jl.jpg

Liondisk LBLU Blu-Ray Reader/DVD Writer - 2X BD-ROM, 4x DVD+R, 8X DVD+RW, 4x DVD-R, 8X DVD-RW

Item Number: L600-2000
Availability: Order Today, Ships Today

Price: $129.99

I didn't see the Lite-ON DX-401S at Newegg or Tiger...That works. Even if it is a wee bit off brand on the final vendor's labeling. It's probably a Lite-On originally.

[sjohnson2]

The commercial is lame. Rest assured MAC supporters...there is a reason MAC has always stood apart form PCx...and with good reason. I must admit that I was a little surprosed when MAC went with Intel chipset...but I guess in a more perfect worls, everyone whould be using MACs now wouldn't they?

[DougB541]

The commercial is lame. Rest assured MAC supporters...there is a reason MAC has always stood apart form PCx...and with good reason. I must admit that I was a little surprosed when MAC went with Intel chipset...but I guess in a more perfect worls, everyone whould be using MACs now wouldn't they?

wut?

[AidenShaw]

Microsoft: Apple wanted 'Laptop Hunters' ads pulled
by Steven Musil

It should come as no surprise that Apple isn't a big fan of Microsoft's "Laptop Hunters" ads, but some may be surprised to learn the Mac maker's lawyers reportedly called a senior Microsoft executive and demanded the ads be removed.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10288022-37.html

LOL

[automan98]

We know that the best quality products do not receive the most market share. Apple does appear to be whining a little here. Customer "deception" can be a grey area.

[xbjllb]

There's one thing that I've never been able to understand. Why do people still use PC's?

Macs run all of the best programs, Macs are faster, Macs crash less, Macs look freaking sweet :D, Macs come without **** on your drive, and Macs can dual-boot Windows for your PC executables and batch files.

You can author, proof, and burn, and view a Blu-ray disc on a PC; you can't on Mac OS.

So much for Mac's supposed superiority.

Mac's are superior; in price, and in devotion of deaf, dumb, and blind fans.

Reminiscent of Michael Jackson.

And if Apple keeps it up, with the same sudden and unexpected result.

:apple:

[LagunaSol]

You can author, proof, and burn, and view a Blu-ray disc on a PC; you can't on Mac OS.

Uh oh, someone let the Blu-ray guy out again.

SOUND THE APPLE DEATH KNELL! :rolleyes:

[LagunaSol]

Who would have ever thought that we'd be sharing verbal blows regarding the epic Microsoft vs. Apple battle in a Mac-centric user forum!

These are strange times indeed...

[diamond.g]

Who would have ever thought that we'd be sharing verbal blows regarding the epic Microsoft vs. Apple battle in a Mac-centric user forum!

These are strange times indeed...
It is par for course though. In reality I don't think anyone wants Microsoft to go away. That kinda makes Apple no longer a niche player, which removes most (if not all) of the charm of running OS X.

But it sure is fun to rant and rave about it... ;)

[LagunaSol]

LOL

Wow, digging up old news eh?

What's LOL is the way this tool reported this supposed phone call.

Yeah, lawyers threatening you over false advertising is hilarious. You know what's even more hilarious? Seeing the ads changed within a week.

LOL!

I guess Turner was doing cartwheels down the hall all right - cartwheels right down to the advertising department to tell them they had to edit the ads.

Too bad Microsoft can't legally threaten Apple's I'm A Mac ads because they're legally accurate.

LOL!!! :p

[LagunaSol]

It is par for course though. In reality I don't think anyone wants Microsoft to go away.

Absolutely not. First, I need someone to absorb all the viruses and malware. Second, it's harder for great products to shine when they don't have mediocre/crummy products to be contrasted with.

Some people are content with mediocrity. And for those people, there's Microsoft (TM)

But regarding all the pro-MS propaganda and undisguised Apple hatred flying around in this Mac users forum, it's clear that the trolls have overrun the castle. I suppose they have nothing better to do while their virus scans are running...

[Eidorian]

Absolutely not. First, I need someone to absorb all the viruses and malware. Second, it's harder for great products to shine when they don't have mediocre/crummy products to be contrasted with.

Some people are content with mediocrity. And for those people, there's Microsoft (TM)

But regarding all the pro-MS propaganda and undisguised Apple hatred flying around in this Mac users forum, it's clear that the trolls have overrun the castle. I suppose they have nothing better to do while their virus scans are running...I'm going to stand back because your head may explode but it is your fellow Mac users that you say are trolls. :rolleyes:

[LagunaSol]

I'm going to stand back because your head may explode but it is your fellow Mac users that you say are trolls. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's the Mac users here that say only idiots pay for Apple hardware. :rolleyes:

[Eidorian]

Yeah, it's the Mac users here that say only idiots pay for Apple hardware. :rolleyes:Isn't it amazing?

[Cleverboy]

We know that the best quality products do not receive the most market share. Apple does appear to be whining a little here. Customer "deception" can be a grey area. Clearly Apple wasn't whining, they were insisting on a legal entitlement, which Microsoft has now executed on. You cannot continue to run commercials on facts that are out of date. Fix the facts, and you remove any grounds for legal action. It would be like Samsung saying Apple doesn't sell an iPhone for $200 in an active campaign, that began before the iPhone $200 price point was announced. Customer deception is pretty cut and dry here. To say otherwise is to ignore the basic facts. I will grant that Microsoft's response was very good spin (though, maybe not in the face of the recently released numbers).

~ CB

[PenguinPower]

I am a Linux Troll, where do I fit in? :'(

gcc -o penguin troll.c

[windywoo]

I am a Linux Troll, where do I fit in? :'(

gcc -o penguin troll.c

Start slagging off BSD.

[xbjllb]

Uh oh, someone let the Blu-ray guy out again.

This "blu-ray guy" is the visible tip of a very angry and very fed up pro content creator iceberg. Most of the others have given up on Apple and quit griping and the other half have left the platform. I'm looking at HP workstations myself, and I buy top of the line every three years fully maxxed out.

If Apple thinks the numbers of iCrap iNewbies coming to the platform can make up for the highend who spend the most money (they need at least 1,000 to 1) then good luck outwaiting the Blu-Ray iceberg to the unsinkable Titanic.

:apple:

[macintoshtoffy]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4621073&CatId=3634

http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/L600-2000-Main03-jl.jpg

Liondisk LBLU Blu-Ray Reader/DVD Writer - 2X BD-ROM, 4x DVD+R, 8X DVD+RW, 4x DVD-R, 8X DVD-RW

Item Number: L600-2000
Availability: Order Today, Ships Today

Price: $129.99

I didn't see the Lite-ON DX-401S at Newegg or Tiger...

That is pretty useless; it might be tempting if that were the price for something that size and burnt BluRay discs.

[macintoshtoffy]

This "blu-ray guy" is the visible tip of a very angry and very fed up pro content creator iceberg. Most of the others have given up on Apple and quit griping and the other half have left the platform. I'm looking at HP workstations myself, and I buy top of the line every three years fully maxxed out.

If Apple thinks the numbers of iCrap iNewbies coming to the platform can make up for the highend who spend the most money (they need at least 1,000 to 1) then good luck outwaiting the Blu-Ray iceberg to the unsinkable Titanic.

:apple:

Nothing stopping you from purchasing an external bluray drive, a copy of toast + BD Plugin and some media tools from Apple. You choose not to because it would kill your irrational Apple hating diatribes. Perish thought of one less post on Macrumors.

[LagunaSol]

This "blu-ray guy" is the visible tip of a very angry and very fed up pro content creator iceberg. Most of the others have given up on Apple and quit griping and the other half have left the platform.

Link please?

[LagunaSol]

If Apple thinks the numbers of iCrap iNewbies coming to the platform can make up for the highend who spend the most money (they need at least 1,000 to 1) then good luck outwaiting the Blu-Ray iceberg to the unsinkable Titanic.

So what you're saying is Apple makes as much money on a single fully-loaded Mac Pro (including pro-level software) as they do selling 1,000 MacBooks? Really?

Wow, these Mac Pros must be way more expensive than I thought they were. :rolleyes:

I'm not arguing that Apple shouldn't support Blu-ray. Frankly, I'm ambivalent about it, but I think they should offer as much choice as possible.

That said, the lack of Blu-ray in Macs is hardly the death sentence for Apple that you claim it to be. And your constant repeating of this diatribe is starting to get a bit silly. You seem to be one of the very few on the board vocal about Blu-ray support, which doesn't seem to indicate a strong market demand. Regardless of what Microsoft's laptop ads say.

[DMann]

This "blu-ray guy" is the visible tip of a very angry and very fed up pro content creator iceberg. Most of the others have given up on Apple and quit griping and the other half have left the platform. I'm looking at HP workstations myself, and I buy top of the line every three years fully maxxed out.Not a deal breaker, and not by a long shot. I know several more pro users and editing houses in the media industry who have given up on Windows and have switched to Macs. Besides, with the advent of FCS 7s BD rendering, export and burning capabilities, the likelihood of seeing system wide BD integration in the very near future is actually quite promising.

[tempusfugit]

I miss floppy disks :(

[charlituna]

You can author, proof, and burn, and view a Blu-ray disc on a PC; you can't on Mac OS.



if that is your one requirement sure Apple's suck

but some folks use more than one 'requirement' that is wanted by perhaps 5% of users to judge value.

[xbjllb]

That said, the lack of Blu-ray in Macs is hardly the death sentence for Apple that you claim it to be. And your constant repeating of this diatribe is starting to get a bit silly. You seem to be one of the very few on the board vocal about Blu-ray support, which doesn't seem to indicate a strong market demand. Regardless of what Microsoft's laptop ads say.

Never mind. Full Blu-ray support is around the corner, I just didn't get the memo. In the brand new FCS upgrade, Compressor 3.5 authors Blu-ray discs quite nicely for my immediate needs, and more support is forthcoming throughout the upgrade and OS.

Furthermore, the Logic upgrade completely destroys Pro Tools superiority with several incredible features pro users have been begging for for years.

Full Blu-ray support possibly by this Christmas, certainly by next, and long before 2012. Apple WILL get Sony to lower the license fees, if they haven't already. It behooves Sony to have a Blu-ray player/burner in every Mac to insure the longevity of the platform.

Apple will survive, live long, and prosper if the US can keep itself together; my work here is done until the next technological impasse (if there is one).

:apple:

[LagunaSol]

Apple will survive, live long, and prosper if the US can keep itself together; my work here is done until the next technological impasse (if there is one).

Nice to see Apple hasn't completely abandoned its pro content creator customers after all. :)

[DMann]

Never mind. Full Blu-ray support is around the corner, I just didn't get the memo. In the brand new FCS upgrade, Compressor 3.5 authors Blu-ray discs quite nicely for my immediate needs, and more support is forthcoming throughout the upgrade and OS.

Furthermore, the Logic upgrade completely destroys Pro Tools superiority with several incredible features pro users have been begging for for years.

Full Blu-ray support possibly by this Christmas, certainly by next, and long before 2012. Apple WILL get Sony to lower the license fees, if they haven't already. It behooves Sony to have a Blu-ray player/burner in every Mac to insure the longevity of the platform.

Apple will survive, live long, and prosper if the US can keep itself together; my work here is done until the next technological impasse (if there is one).

:apple:Logic Studio's Flex Tool, Flex Speed, VariSpeed, Audio Quantize, Speed Fade, Selective Track Import, Bounce-in-Place, and Live Production Tools and Gear, all leave ProTools behind, elevating sound recording/mixing/production to an entirely new level. Logic Studio, alone, has evolved into a game changer, and is cost effective beyond comparison. FCS emerges dramatically as well - Two thumbs up, way up high!!

[k2spitfire88]

This "blu-ray guy" is the visible tip of a very angry and very fed up pro content creator iceberg. Most of the others have given up on Apple and quit griping and the other half have left the platform. I'm looking at HP workstations myself, and I buy top of the line every three years fully maxxed out.

If Apple thinks the numbers of iCrap iNewbies coming to the platform can make up for the highend who spend the most money (they need at least 1,000 to 1) then good luck outwaiting the Blu-Ray iceberg to the unsinkable Titanic.

:apple:

Honestly, do you make up this stuff? No figures to back it up, it sounds like bull to me, but, then again, you know what they say. Never let the facts get in the way of your argument...

[macintoshtoffy]

if that is your one requirement sure Apple's suck

but some folks use more than one 'requirement' that is wanted by perhaps 5% of users to judge value.

What I find funny are those who ignore my previous post:

Nothing stopping you from purchasing an external bluray drive, a copy of toast + BD Plugin and some media tools from Apple. You choose not to because it would kill your irrational Apple hating diatribes. Perish thought of one less post on Macrumors.

If BD burning is oh-so important, then buy it separately, attach it to your USB or Firewire port, purchase a copy of Toast + BD Plugin - and voila, problem solved.

As for BD Playback - how many end users do you see playing back BD on their computers? most people I know would sooner use the BD device hooked up to their 50 inch wide screen rather than squinting at a laptop or a desktop monitor.