New OCZ Vertex SSD drives specifically for Macs !

[harshw]

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_vertex_series_mac_edition_sata_ii_2_5-ssd

These are specifically for Macs, tested at Apple labs. Way to go OCZ ! Apple users are going to love you :)


http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/products/accessories/b/apple_vertex_b.jpg

" .. The Mac Edition delivers the incredible performance enthusiasts have come to expect from OCZ’s premium Solid State Drive offerings with the peace of mind knowing they are tested in Apple’s own labs."

[IrishSniper87]

If they were affordable, maybe people would love them, haha.

[harshw]

If they were affordable, maybe people would love them, haha.

Yeah I am hoping they are the same cost as the normal OCZ Vertexes ... I've seen the 120GB for 280 gbp in UK. They should certainly be cheaper than the X-25's ... Intel's 160GB alone would cost as much as OCZ's 250GB. And the X-25's are not Apple certified.

[vilim12]

If they were affordable, maybe people would love them, haha.

I agree I want one cause theyre so damn fast, but the price makes the thought leave my mind instantly lol.

[JGO]

[url]Apple users are going to love you :)


" .. The Mac Edition delivers the incredible performance enthusiasts have come to expect from OCZ’s premium Solid State Drive offerings with the peace of mind knowing they are tested in Apple’s own labs."

"Peace of mind?!" :confused:


This is only good news if those who already purchased a "standard" vertex receive enough support to make their vertex "specifically" compatible with the Mac too. Go ahead and ask them this question in the support forums and they get irritated about it. If they can't come up with a flashing tool for the mac, then this Mac labeling is ridiculous. Why? Because in their support forums they come right out and say that the Vertex is still a work in progress and that you will have to do successive firmware updates. The mods on the OCZ support forums sometimes don't understand the frustration associated with spending $700+ for such a dodgy setup, but do they ever realize that the Vertex isn't MARKETED as an expensive experiment. It is marketed as a finished product. Seems to me that I spent $725 to be a Beta tester.

I am sitting here now with a Vertex (FW 1199) in my 17" UMBP, and I am unable to flash the drive due to some incompatibility of hardware (Non-Intel Controller). When booted in Vista, the Vertex in service mode doesn't show up. When booted in OS X the Vertex does appear in service mode. Weird.

Yet they now have a drive labeled as Mac compatible... Apple users will only really love them when they can flash these drives into long-term usefulness without being chided in the support forums for having a mac related problem, and then being told to "find a pc."

[MikhailT]

"Peace of mind?!" :confused:


This is only good news if those who already purchased a "standard" vertex receive enough support to make their vertex "specifically" compatible with the Mac too. Go ahead and ask them this question in the support forums and they get irritated about it. If they can't come up with a flashing tool for the mac, then this Mac labeling is ridiculous. Why? Because in their support forums they come right out and say that the Vertex is still a work in progress and that you will have to do successive firmware updates. The mods on the OCZ support forums sometimes don't understand the frustration associated with spending $700+ for such a dodgy setup, but do they ever realize that the Vertex isn't MARKETED as an expensive experiment. It is marketed as a finished product. Seems to me that I spent $725 to be a Beta tester.

I am sitting here now with a Vertex (FW 1199) in my 17" UMBP, and I am unable to flash the drive due to some incompatibility of hardware (Non-Intel Controller). When booted in Vista, the Vertex in service mode doesn't show up. When booted in OS X the Vertex does appear in service mode. Weird.

Yet they now have a drive labeled as Mac compatible... Apple users will only really love them when they can flash these drives into long-term usefulness without being chided in the support forums for having a mac related problem, and then being told to "find a pc."

That's what happens when you bought products from small companies that often sources products from other companies.

Last time I checked, this product wasn't selling saying that it'll support Mac out of the box nor did they market that. You made that decision yourself without doing research. This is what's called EAS, Early Adopters Syndrome.

At least OCZ is working hard on trying to fix all the issues. Intel still haven't fixed their early X-25M with bootcamp issues, so nobody is perfect and neither is SSD. It is still an immature technology for consumer market.

Those Mac drives are the same as the regular Vertex but with the new firmware 1370 aka 1.10 which contained mac support for sleep/hibernation.

BTW: it is rare to find a flashing tool with mac support. OCZ claim that they might work on it but they don't know when and if it will be done.

[hayduke]

Very interesting. Staying tuned...

[JGO]

That's what happens when you bought products from small companies that often sources products from other companies.

Last time I checked, this product wasn't selling saying that it'll support Mac out of the box nor did they market that. You made that decision yourself without doing research. This is what's called EAS, Early Adopters Syndrome.

You are 100% correct.

However, I do believe that my message provides some balance to the original post. Now the box says (implies) that it works with Macs. Regarding firmware flashing: just because it if rare to find the tool doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or that it is somehow impossible to do.

All this being said...how do I get around the controller issue os that I can update my firmware? Use my wife's older MBP to do the flash? Not sure what the controller is in that model.

[MikhailT]

You are 100% correct.

However, I do believe that my message provides some balance to the original post. Now the box says (implies) that it works with Macs. Regarding firmware flashing: just because it if rare to find the tool doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or that it is somehow impossible to do.

All this being said...how do I get around the controller issue os that I can update my firmware? Use my wife's older MBP to do the flash? Not sure what the controller is in that model.

The easiest and fastest method is to use a PC or go over to a friend's pc to do the flashing. (bring it to work if you have a pc )

Your inability to actually flash may be because Vista is seeing it as SCSI and you need to go into Bios(which macs lack) to change to IDE mode so that the flasher can be used.

Now did you use the new improved 1.10 flasher tool to try?

You can try other methods such as BartPE/Vista Recovery CD, but I am not sure if it is working or not on Macs. OCZ working on freedos boot CD that should work but unknown atm.

[JGO]

Now did you use the new improved 1.10 flasher tool to try?
You can try other methods such as BartPE/Vista Recovery CD, but I am not sure if it is working or not on Macs. OCZ working on freedos boot CD that should work but unknown atm.

I have not yet tried the 1.10 flasher. I will do this.

[harshw]

Now did you use the new improved 1.10 flasher tool to try?


The flashing tool really is improved, it handles AHCI even though it says you need to set the drives to IDE under BIOS.

[harshw]

"Peace of mind?!" :confused:


This is only good news if those who already purchased a "standard" vertex receive enough support to make their vertex "specifically" compatible with the Mac too. Go ahead and ask them this question in the support forums and they get irritated about it. If they can't come up with a flashing tool for the mac, then this Mac labeling is ridiculous. Why? Because in their support forums they come right out and say that the Vertex is still a work in progress and that you will have to do successive firmware updates. The mods on the OCZ support forums sometimes don't understand the frustration associated with spending $700+ for such a dodgy setup, but do they ever realize that the Vertex isn't MARKETED as an expensive experiment. It is marketed as a finished product. Seems to me that I spent $725 to be a Beta tester.

I am sitting here now with a Vertex (FW 1199) in my 17" UMBP, and I am unable to flash the drive due to some incompatibility of hardware (Non-Intel Controller). When booted in Vista, the Vertex in service mode doesn't show up. When booted in OS X the Vertex does appear in service mode. Weird.

Yet they now have a drive labeled as Mac compatible... Apple users will only really love them when they can flash these drives into long-term usefulness without being chided in the support forums for having a mac related problem, and then being told to "find a pc."

I feel your pain dude, but let me say this: The early intel drives that dont work with bootcamp - do you know of anyone who had a firmware flasher for them yet ? AFAIK, you have to send them in and they give you ones with fixed firmware. And as for the mods ... any mod on any forum will take you down if you have a go at them - whether it is MR, OCZ or Apple discussion forums. At least the MR and OCZ forums are a lot more tolerant than Apple Discussion forums :)

Maybe you can sell the non-Mac vertex on ebay and get the Mac specific variant ? You would probably get the same price you paid for them. Or then you can RMA the drive back to OCZ for them to flash/exchange with the Mac specific variant. One thing that is unknown right now is pricing. I really hope OCZ dont charge extra for the Mac variant or then to differentiate it somehow.

[ux4all]

I really hope OCZ dont charge extra for the Mac variant or then to differentiate it somehow.

If they are using the Apple name then it isn't OCZ you should worry about. It is whether Apple will charge more for something with their brand.

I am sure you aren't that naive to believe that OCZ would eat the cost right? Expect a SIGNIFICANT premium if these drives use the Apple trademark or state that these are APPLE approved. Any use of Apple as a marketing ploy (regardless of whether they test or not) will increase cost.

[L0s7man]

I think Intel fixed the X25-M and bootcamp problems. The price is comparable the same 450chf for 80GB X25-M vs 530chf for 120GB Vertex, so I think I'll rather go for Intel (I don't care for extra 40GB)

[subaqua]

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_vertex_series_mac_edition_sata_ii_2_5-ssd

These are specifically for Macs, tested at Apple labs. Way to go OCZ ! Apple users are going to love you :)


http://www.ocztechnology.com/images/products/accessories/b/apple_vertex_b.jpg

" .. The Mac Edition delivers the incredible performance enthusiasts have come to expect from OCZ’s premium Solid State Drive offerings with the peace of mind knowing they are tested in Apple’s own labs."


I received a new super talent SSD last week and it's been working pretty well. While it isn't "apple certified", it is much faster than the stock 200GB drive my early 2008 MacBookPro4,1 shipped with. Here's the properties of this new 256GB Ultradrive from super talent (FTM56GX25H)

Intel ICH8-M AHCI:

Vendor: Intel
Product: ICH8-M AHCI
Speed: 1.5 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.10 Supported

STT_FTM56GX25H:

Capacity: 238.47 GB
Model: STT_FTM56GX25H
Revision: 1275
Serial Number: XXXXX-fbix-XXXXX
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Mac OS 9 Drivers: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Blink:
Capacity: 238.15 GB
Available: 98.91 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /


I bought it because of the iometer performance numbers they quoted on their web site. While I've been unable to reproduce 4000 random IOPS with it, it is much faster than what I had and I'm pretty happy with my decision even though it cost me USD $640.00 from NewEgg.

In the last week, I've had one sleep/wake problem that may or may not have been due to the SSD ... I am running the BIX firmware which I believe is the latest and greatest. Also, since my MacBookPro is old, it can only do SATA at 1.5Gb/s.

The SSD does become warm to the touch but it seems to have improved my battery life by maybe 15-20 minutes. Startup times are quick. I don't use bootcamp but my multiple VMware fusion images work great and suspend/resume very quickly.

I know the $$/GB cost is bad but the $$/IOP is cheap which is why I bought this drive. All of my large data sets are kept on my office MacPro and servers so 238GB on my laptop is okay.

[MBHockey]

The easiest and fastest method is to use a PC or go over to a friend's pc to do the flashing. (bring it to work if you have a pc )

Your inability to actually flash may be because Vista is seeing it as SCSI and you need to go into Bios(which macs lack) to change to IDE mode so that the flasher can be used.

Now did you use the new improved 1.10 flasher tool to try?

You can try other methods such as BartPE/Vista Recovery CD, but I am not sure if it is working or not on Macs. OCZ working on freedos boot CD that should work but unknown atm.

I have only a MacBook, and I've flashed the drive twice with the Bart PE boot disc. Only takes a few minutes, but I do have to make a new Bart PE boot disc with each new firmware revision.

At least you don't need an actual PC though.

[drew0020]

I think Intel fixed the X25-M and bootcamp problems. The price is comparable the same 450chf for 80GB X25-M vs 530chf for 120GB Vertex, so I think I'll rather go for Intel (I don't care for extra 40GB)
I went with the Intel as well. Very happy here!

[MacAlpha]

Great news. As soon as they come out with the next size jump, I will definitely be in the market for one. :)

[steve31]

I will stick with intel. Everything that I read says that Intel is the best right now.

[FieryFurnace]

I will stick with intel. Everything that I read says that Intel is the best right now.

True, the Intel is the best - but the premium you have to pay for them still kicked them out of my SSD wish list.

I bought the Vertex and I love it - great SSD! :)

[harshw]

I will stick with intel. Everything that I read says that Intel is the best right now.

Is the bootcamp working on your Intel drive ? What version is it ?

[harshw]

I think Intel fixed the X25-M and bootcamp problems. The price is comparable the same 450chf for 80GB X25-M vs 530chf for 120GB Vertex, so I think I'll rather go for Intel (I don't care for extra 40GB)

In UK the price for the X-25M 80GB is £ 334 and the Vertex 120GB is available for £ 285. So that works out to £4.175 per GB for the Intel drive as compared to £2.375 per GB for the Vertex. Much cheaper than the Intel for sure. And Anandtech's review compared the drives and found them to be head to head in real world performance. Just because the Intel wins all the IOMeter 4K random read/write benchmarks doesn't mean much in real world usage.

[Matek]

I never liked hardware makers that sold seperate "Apple versions" of their hardware. This made some slight sense back when it was a completely different platform (PPC), but nowadays the hardware in Apple products is the same as the hardware in every other laptop on the market.

If I buy standard memory, it doesn't matter whether I want to put it in a $300 Asus netbook, a $1000 MacBook or a $3100 Dell Adamo - it's standard and it should work. Same goes for SATA drives. If this SSD didn't work properly on some Macs, they should simply say it's a problem on their side and release a fix, not make a new product and claim it's a feature.

If this thing wouldn't work on a Sony, nobody would say "Oh well, it doesn't specifically say it's Sony compatible, I guess I'll just wait for the special Vaio version". They would complain - and that's the only right thing to do. Right now, hardware makers are often simply trying to leech more money out of us Mac users by selling us repackaged "regular" products that should be following standards in the first place.

Macs being incompatible with standard hardware is a thing of the past. We shouldn't be embracing it, we should take a more critical stance and tell hardware companies to stop manipulating us.

[MBHockey]

I will stick with intel. Everything that I read says that Intel is the best right now.

Are you sure about that? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=681220)


:)

[dbwie]

I just bought a MacBook with the stock 250GB drive. I'm figuring it will take me 2-3 years to fill it up, based on how I use it. Hoping that a 512 GB SSD will be affordable in about 2-3 years.

[watergun]

Is the bootcamp working on your Intel drive ? What version is it ?

I am using 160GB version and I can confirm that bootcamp is working fine on it.

[pellets007]

Sounds like a poorly made gimmick. They probably just slapped on a sticker and threw it into the closest Mac they could find to make sure it at least booted up.

[MBHockey]

Sounds like a poorly made gimmick. They probably just slapped on a sticker and threw it into the closest Mac they could find to make sure it at least booted up.

That's quite an allegation to make when the press release clearly contradicts your assumption.

Did you even read it? Do you have any idea how formal the process is for Apple to allow them to use the Mac sticker?

These are rhetorical questions, because you obviously didn't read the press release nor do you have any idea about the process.

[drew0020]

That's quite an allegation to make when the press release clearly contradicts your assumption.

Did you even read it? Do you have any idea how formal the process is for Apple to allow them to use the Mac sticker?

These are rhetorical questions, because you obviously didn't read the press release nor do you have any idea about the process.

I personally think it is a marketing gimmick (I dont feel as strongly as the above poster). The feel like the OCZ drives are still beta because they keep releasing firmware updates. I think its great that a company supports its product, but...

That said the drives look above average from a performance standpoint and are a good value SSD. They just arent for me right now.

[ux4all]

Sounds like a poorly made gimmick. They probably just slapped on a sticker and threw it into the closest Mac they could find to make sure it at least booted up.

This has been the realm of the PC lately. Stickers for marketing purposes. Apple, as far as I have known them, does not partake in this type of thing due to its perceived affect on the brand.

[MBHockey]

I personally think it is a marketing gimmick (I dont feel as strongly as the above poster). The feel like the OCZ drives are still beta because they keep releasing firmware updates. I think its great that a company supports its product, but...

That said the drives look above average from a performance standpoint and are a good value SSD. They just arent for me right now.

The "Mac edition" drives are the same as the regular OCZ Vertex (as confirmed on their official support forum).

So what they're really saying is the Vertex has been given the green light by Apple to say "this is fully compatible, both the hardware and firmware, with Macs".

The only way it'd be a gimmick is if they charge more for the "Mac edition" since it is the same drive with the same firmware. If they do that, shame on them.

[harshw]

The feel like the OCZ drives are still beta because they keep releasing firmware updates.

Would you rather go with Intel who make you RMA the drive for firmware updates ? Or don't acknowledge the Bootcamp issue for long and then suddenly have new revisions out on the market without telling customers ? ;)

And pray how does OCZ respond to things like TRIM - an upcoming ATA 13 specification that wasn't even standardised when the drive started production ? They have to update the firmware to get TRIM support into the drive - this should help GREATLY with the problem of the SSD slowing down after prolonged usage, even when enough free space exists for wear levelling and write combining.

Is the Unibody MacBook a beta product if it's had 3 or 4 EFI updates so far ? :D


That said the drives look above average from a performance standpoint and are a good value SSD. They just arent for me right now.

Average ? As compared to what ? The Vertex is faster than the Intel when you're adding songs to your iTunes library or photos to iPhoto. And it's the same performance in most other tasks. Of course, Intel's X25-M is an IOPs monster, but you really won't see the X25' potential unless you're running a database or a webserver. For normal usage, the Vertex is cheaper and faster.

If you ask me whether spending £280 on a 120GB SSD for the MacBook is worth it - I'll say yes. YMMV of course. But it makes your 2.0 GHz MacBook act like a 2.4 GHz machine. It's only when you've used one ... and gone back to using a HDD, that you realise the difference. :D

[harshw]

I am using 160GB version and I can confirm that bootcamp is working fine on it.

AFAIK the bootcamp issue was only with the early 80GB drives.

[Valmor]

I have a 120GB OCZ Vertex with the new 1.10 firmware. It doesn't have a Mac logo - but the 1.10 firmware makes it exactly the same as those Mac "certified" drives. It as an amazing SSD. I'm using it in a new 2.4GHz Unibody MacBook and it's flawless.

[pellets007]

That's quite an allegation to make when the press release clearly contradicts your assumption.

Did you even read it? Do you have any idea how formal the process is for Apple to allow them to use the Mac sticker?

These are rhetorical questions, because you obviously didn't read the press release nor do you have any idea about the process.Have you purchased from OCZ? Read what? Their own description? Being a new Mac user, I don't have any idea of the process. I'm sorry if what I said came off a strong, but that doesn't make it appear any less of a gimmick.

[Spiral21x]

Hmm, I am just a tax return away from purchasing a 120gb Vertex. Could be any day now. What do you all think, is it worth it to wait for this Mac Edition to hit the shelf. Is there any actual difference? Is the firmware different and optimized for macs (going in my MBP Penryn) or is this just a marketing gimmick and I would be waiting to buy the exact same product? I was planning on buying from NewEgg and I have read that the one they sell comes with and older firmware. I would really like to just put this bad boy in and not have to fiddle with flashing, installing new firmware, etc.

[MikhailT]

Hmm, I am just a tax return away from purchasing a 120gb Vertex. Could be any day now. What do you all think, is it worth it to wait for this Mac Edition to hit the shelf. Is there any actual difference? Is the firmware different and optimized for macs (going in my MBP Penryn) or is this just a marketing gimmick and I would be waiting to buy the exact same product? I was planning on buying from NewEgg and I have read that the one they sell comes with and older firmware. I would really like to just put this bad boy in and not have to fiddle with flashing, installing new firmware, etc.

Same devices, same firmware. Just marketing difference.

[Dfndr90]

Hmm, I am just a tax return away from purchasing a 120gb Vertex. Could be any day now. What do you all think, is it worth it to wait for this Mac Edition to hit the shelf. Is there any actual difference? Is the firmware different and optimized for macs (going in my MBP Penryn) or is this just a marketing gimmick and I would be waiting to buy the exact same product? I was planning on buying from NewEgg and I have read that the one they sell comes with and older firmware. I would really like to just put this bad boy in and not have to fiddle with flashing, installing new firmware, etc.

I just installed the OCZ Vertex 60 GB drive on my late 2006 CD2 Macbook. It is firmware 1275 and installed with no issues. From unboxing to reinstalling hardware was about 90 minutes. This drive is fast, I will post Geek Bench stats in you want.

DOnt worry about Apple branding, they will be the same drive.

[jav6454]

I just bought a MacBook with the stock 250GB drive. I'm figuring it will take me 2-3 years to fill it up, based on how I use it. Hoping that a 512 GB SSD will be affordable in about 2-3 years.

Most definitely, maybe the 768 GB or the 1 TB SSD will be at the price current SSDs are in 2-3 years. However, I know the speeds will have drastically increased by then also.

[PolySciSurfer]

What does "flashing" mean? What is a "flash" tool?

[ppc750fx]

Meh.

Wake me when OCZ:

1) Stops beta testing their drives using early adopters as guinea pigs.

2) Makes a drive with random 4K performance that's anywhere close to Intel's drives. (Right now it's a total joke, given how close the price is)

[relativist]

The only way it'd be a gimmick is if they charge more for the "Mac edition" since it is the same drive with the same firmware. If they do that, shame on them.

It appears to be the case that the Mac edition is selling for more:

Mac 120GB - $519 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227434

Regular 120GB - $399 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227395

Mac 60GB - $295 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227433

Regular 60GB - $199 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227394

The 30GB is only $46 more for the Mac edition... the percentage premium is way to high.

[Sesshi]

"Peace of mind?!" :confused:


This is only good news if those who already purchased a "standard" vertex receive enough support to make their vertex "specifically" compatible with the Mac too. Go ahead and ask them this question in the support forums and they get irritated about it. If they can't come up with a flashing tool for the mac, then this Mac labeling is ridiculous. Why? Because in their support forums they come right out and say that the Vertex is still a work in progress and that you will have to do successive firmware updates. The mods on the OCZ support forums sometimes don't understand the frustration associated with spending $700+ for such a dodgy setup, but do they ever realize that the Vertex isn't MARKETED as an expensive experiment. It is marketed as a finished product. Seems to me that I spent $725 to be a Beta tester.

I am sitting here now with a Vertex (FW 1199) in my 17" UMBP, and I am unable to flash the drive due to some incompatibility of hardware (Non-Intel Controller). When booted in Vista, the Vertex in service mode doesn't show up. When booted in OS X the Vertex does appear in service mode. Weird.

Yet they now have a drive labeled as Mac compatible... Apple users will only really love them when they can flash these drives into long-term usefulness without being chided in the support forums for having a mac related problem, and then being told to "find a pc."

More likely that flashing will be disabled for Apple users ;) :p

[PolySciSurfer]

More likely that flashing will be disabled for Apple users ;) :p

Can someone please tell me what "flashing" is?

[Sesshi]

I guess that was a case of 'QED' :D

It's when you open your coat in iChat ;)

[glitch44]

Can someone please tell me what "flashing" is?

Flashing means to update the firmware of a device. Firmware is the fixed, usually rather small, programs that internally control various electronic devices. In this case, flashing the updated, optimized firmware of an OCZ Vertex drive means the device will function better/ faster.

[ppc750fx]

Flashing means to update the firmware of a device. Firmware is the fixed, usually rather small, programs that internally control various electronic devices. In this case, flashing the updated, optimized firmware of an OCZ Vertex drive means the device will function better/ faster.

Or, in the case of the Vertex, a version of the firmware that actually delivers the promised speeds (first patch), loses data (second patch), works as initially advertised (third patch.) :rolleyes:

[kkim0228]

As someone said before me, this "mac" edition thing IS a marketing gimmick, and whoever buys into it is plain stupid, excuse me for the language. Do a little research, go to OCZ forums and read the sticky post by one of the moderators saying the only difference between the regular and the "mac" version is the label (exactly the same hardware and firmware).

I don't know who to blame, (certain) mac users who are idiotic enough and so gotten used to Apple Tax that they would bite the bait from even a 3rd party parts manufacturer, or the manufacturer itself. There should have been neither the price difference nor two different labels to begin with.

[relativist]

I think it's clear the manufacturer and distributors are to blame. Actually, I think they are missing an opportunity, if they did the opposite and charged slightly less for the Mac version... well you can guess what would happen. Anyway it seems that they have not done a proper price/sales profit optimization using business calculus.

[MBHockey]

To be somewhat fair, Apple charges any company to use that sticker, so it will most likely be reflected in the price to the end user. However, I don't think those prices are reflective of the actual cost Apple charges.

[Matek]

To be somewhat fair, Apple charges any company to use that sticker, so it will most likely be reflected in the price to the end user. However, I don't think those prices are reflective of the actual cost Apple charges.The whole idea of Macs vs. PCs is the cornerstone of Apple's success (to be fair - there were differences back when they were on PPC). They don't want people to know it's really PCs with Windows/Linux vs. PCs with OS X, because they want to justify the price difference as much as possible. That's why they want for companies to charge more for their "Apple-specific" hardware, it's the same with "Mac RAM" and a bunch of other products. A marketing gimmick is an appropriate word, yes.