Why is networking such a hassle in OS X (for me, at least)?

alexf · Apr 19, 2004

I have four Macs connected together via an Ethernet hub and find that connecting them to each other is much more of a hassle than in OS 9 (and I know that it's supposed to me the opposite).

In OS 9 I woul just make an alias of the other computers' hard drives on my desktop and, upon clicking on it, would connect to it.

Now, in OS X, each time I want to connect, I have to find the temporary address of the computer to which I want to connect in its File Sharing control panel (dynamic.covad.net is always contained in the address) and manually enter it into the other computer, since the "Browse" feature in the Connect to Server dialog box doesn't work.

Anybody have any advice for me to make this easier? I though OS X was "built for networking..."

Thank you

ElectricSheep · Apr 19, 2004

alexf said:
I have four Macs connected together via an Ethernet hub and find that connecting them to each other is much more of a hassle than in OS 9 (and I know that it's supposed to me the opposite).

In OS 9 I woul just make an alias of the other computers' hard drives on my desktop and, upon clicking on it, would connect to it.

Now, in OS X, each time I want to connect, I have to find the temporary address of the computer to which I want to connect in its File Sharing control panel (dynamic.covad.net is always contained in the address) and manually enter it into the other computer, since the "Browse" feature in the Connect to Server dialog box doesn't work.

Anybody have any advice for me to make this easier? I though OS X was "built for networking..."

Thank you

Is Rendezvous on? Open up Directory Access (located in the Utilities folder), and make sure the checkbox next to "Rendezvous" is checked. If you want to use AppleTalk, check the box next to "AppleTalk".

Then take a trip to the Finder's Network Browser. You should, in theory, see all the locally available shares.

7on · Apr 19, 2004

You can do a Cmd+K in Finder and type out the computer name and click that little Plus and add it to your Favorites menu. I heard that aliases can be made in 10.3.3, but I haven't tried.

jeremy.king · Apr 19, 2004

Are you using a router as you hub, or did you splurge on a multiple IP high speed ISP?

If you are using a router, try setting up your Macs to use fixed IP addresses (instead of DHCP) on the same subnet. Ex. I use 192.168.10, 192.168.1.20, etc...

This way, you CAN make an alias (at least in Panther) of the share and double click it to open the share again after its disconnected.

alexf · Apr 19, 2004

kingjr3 said:
Are you using a router as you hub, or did you splurge on a multiple IP high speed ISP?

If you are using a router, try setting up your Macs to use fixed IP addresses (instead of DHCP) on the same subnet. Ex. I use 192.168.10, 192.168.1.20, etc...

This way, you CAN make an alias (at least in Panther) of the share and double click it to open the share again after its disconnected.

Thanks for the tip... Yes I am using a router as a hub; how do I set up my Macs to use fixed IP addresses?

Thank again!

jeremy.king · Apr 20, 2004

Before doing this, you will need to know a couple settings on your router. Record the internal IP adress (typically 192.168.1.1) and the DNS servers it has picked up (can be found in the control panel screens of your router).

On your mac - In the network control panel select Manually in the configure drop down.
Enter in an IP address in the form XX.XX.XX.YY where XX.XX.XX match the first three numbers of the IP address of your router. For example, if the routers IP is 192.168.1.1, then your computers should be 192.168.1.Y where Y is between 1 and 255 (I go by 10s usually).

Subnet should be 255.255.255.0

Router shoudl be the IP of your router, in our example. 192.168.1.1

Domain Name Servers box should have the DNS servers you captured from your router. Although this is optional, it may help with speed of resolving a domain name to an IP address.

That should be about it.

Test one machine to make sure you get it. before changing them all. If you run into problems you can simply change back to DHCP, but you will have the same prob.

Good luck

alexf · Apr 20, 2004

kingjr3 said:
Before doing this, you will need to know a couple settings on your router. Record the internal IP adress (typically 192.168.1.1) and the DNS servers it has picked up (can be found in the control panel screens of your router).

Well, I thought that my ethernet hub was considered a router, but maybe not, as this doesn't seem to make sense... I am using an Asanté FriendlyNet hub, and as far as I know, there is no control panel for it. Or am I missing something?

Thanks again for your help.

jeremy.king · Apr 20, 2004

Hub != Router

Are you looking to share an internet connection or just network these computers?

You can follow the same directions if you don't care about an internet connection, just leave the DNS and router entries blank.

If you are wanting to share an internet connection, get a ROUTER (linksys, d-links, etc...). Then connect the Routers WAN port to your cable/dsl modem and the remaining ports are for your client computers.

For clarity, I would ask you provide your current setup. Are you paying for multiple IP addresses right now with your current ISP? That seems to be the only way you could get dynamic IPs for every machine.

7on · Apr 20, 2004

A hub allows lots of computers to connect to the internet and uses different IPs for the computers. Much like plugging in the computers directly into a wall mounted ethernet cable, only this splices it much like a power strip.

A router is like a hub except that it gives you stuff like firewalls. It also has it's own IP number and the computers around it share the same number. I don't know much about routers (obviously) because I haven't used one.

tveric · Apr 20, 2004

One of the key diffs between a router and hub, for home users that have cable or DSL, is that the router can give different local IP addresses to all the macs in your home, thereby sharing the single one that your ISP gives you. A hub isn't that smart - you can still network your macs together using a hub just fine, you just can't be on the internet simultaneously with them if your ISP is giving you just one IP.

Unless, of course, you have one mac connected to the internet and are using it to share the internet connection with the rest of the macs - but in that case, your "main mac" is really acting as the router.

davecuse · Apr 20, 2004

If you are paying for 4 ip addresses and hooking up through a hub you've got a major security hole. At least if you get a router you can close off ports that you don't need, I'm pretty sure the linksys routers even allow you to install a 3rd party software firewall.

As is, each of your macs are hooked directly to the internet. Essentially the internet is your LAN, this is very very bad. All of your files are open to the world, do you park your car and leave it in the bad section of town with the windows down and keys in the ignition too?

My advice, invest in a good router, they're pretty cheap on ebay. I actually just sold one for $40. I prefer Linksys, they have a very simple browser based admin utility. I really like the AirPort, but you don't need wireless.

alexf · Apr 20, 2004

Thanks everyone for the clarification and advice. My set-up is as follows:

I have a DSL connection via Earthlink for one computer. However, all four of my Macs have (somehow) been able to share the connection via the hub.

This set-up seemed to be working fine until I finally switched to OS X about eight months ago; since then whenever I want to network I have to enter the address of the computer that I want to connect to, which always changes.

I am currently using OS 10.3.3.

Should I get a router?

ingenious · Apr 20, 2004

alexf said:
Thanks everyone for the clarification and advice. My set-up is as follows:

I have a DSL connection via Earthlink for one computer. However, all four of my Macs have (somehow) been able to share the connection via the hub.

This set-up seemed to be working fine until I finally switched to OS X about eight months ago; since then whenever I want to network I have to enter the address of the computer that I want to connect to, which always changes.

I am currently using OS 10.3.3.

Should I get a router?

it would make it simpler to set up....

i dont think that you can set permanent (dynamic and static confuse me... which one is permanent?) IPs on the computers. I know you can do both with a router. with the router you could plug the DSL modem right in the the WAN port on the router and then use the LAN ports to hook up ur other computers. then set permanent ips and put in ur DNS and router #s....

ElectricSheep · Apr 20, 2004

7on said:
A hub allows lots of computers to connect to the internet and uses different IPs for the computers. Much like plugging in the computers directly into a wall mounted ethernet cable, only this splices it much like a power strip.

A router is like a hub except that it gives you stuff like firewalls. It also has it's own IP number and the computers around it share the same number. I don't know much about routers (obviously) because I haven't used one.

Not quite. There is a more fundamental difference between a router and a hub, and it has to do with the way the machines connected to them are linked together. A router will provide a switched network environment. This means that the router will analyze IP information contained in the packet, and will then send the packet to the appropriate port. A hub, on the other hand, is a very simple device that takes incoming data from one port, and then rebroadcasts to every port without looking at the IP information contained in the packet. Its simple to implement, but it doesn't scale very well.

davecuse · Apr 21, 2004

If you are connecting your cable modem to a hub and then splitting it out to 4 computer each computer has an IP address that can accessed by anyone on the internet. If your computers are set up for file sharing, your files are essentially being shared with everyone in the world.

If you connect the cable modem to a router, the router is then the only IP address that anyone outside of your house can see. Each of your 4 computers will have an IP that is strictly local, that no one from outside of the house can see.

To sum up, hub=BAD!!!, router=good.

If you have any type of sensitive files on your computers I would urge you to get a router, especially if you are using file sharing. Most ISPs I've used don't require any special settings so it should just be plug and play.

Sparky's · Apr 21, 2004

7on said:
You can do a Cmd+K in Finder and type out the computer name and click that little Plus and add it to your Favorites menu. I heard that aliases can be made in 10.3.3, but I haven't tried.

On a G3 running OS 9.2.2 (acting as a file storage only) how do I find the "name" of the computer? I tried system profiler, and chooser, I think I remember what name I gave it but I want to make sure. I'm uploading a diagram of my LAN at work. The OS 10.3 computer is my workstation, the OS 9.2.2 is the files storage G3, the Win 2K is the PC workstation, and the Win NT is the platemaker (ctp). What's not shown and not relevant at this time is the 2 printers also connected to the ethernet hub. I can't for the life of me figure out how to "see" my other puters from the Panther machine. I've been trying to follow everyones help in other forums but to no avail.
Just color me stupid when it comes to the OS X networking. It's all so new to me.

Thanks

encro · Apr 21, 2004

kingjr3 said:
Before doing this, you will need to know a couple settings on your router. Record the internal IP adress (typically 192.168.1.1) and the DNS servers it has picked up (can be found in the control panel screens of your router).

On your mac - In the network control panel select Manually in the configure drop down.
Enter in an IP address in the form XX.XX.XX.YY where XX.XX.XX match the first three numbers of the IP address of your router. For example, if the routers IP is 192.168.1.1, then your computers should be 192.168.1.Y where Y is between 1 and 255 (I go by 10s usually).

Subnet should be 255.255.255.0

Router shoudl be the IP of your router, in our example. 192.168.1.1

Domain Name Servers box should have the DNS servers you captured from your router. Although this is optional, it may help with speed of resolving a domain name to an IP address.

That should be about it.

Test one machine to make sure you get it. before changing them all. If you run into problems you can simply change back to DHCP, but you will have the same prob.

Good luck

To add to this:

Each computer must have its own unique IP address and you cannot use 127 in the range because that is reserved for loopback.

I'll never understand why there are so many different loopbacks when one would have been sufficient though...

wrldwzrd89 · Apr 21, 2004

Sparky's said:
On a G3 running OS 9.2.2 (acting as a file storage only) how do I find the "name" of the computer? I tried system profiler, and chooser, I think I remember what name I gave it but I want to make sure. I'm uploading a diagram of my LAN at work. The OS 10.3 computer is my workstation, the OS 9.2.2 is the files storage G3, the Win 2K is the PC workstation, and the Win NT is the platemaker (ctp). What's not shown and not relevant at this time is the 2 printers also connected to the ethernet hub. I can't for the life of me figure out how to "see" my other puters from the Panther machine. I've been trying to follow everyones help in other forums but to no avail.
Just color me stupid when it comes to the OS X networking. It's all so new to me.

Thanks

Don't forget about AppleTalk! Without AppleTalk turned on (in both Directory Access and the Network pane of System Preferences), you won't be able to see your Mac OS 9 machine. The computer name can be found in the File Sharing control panel of Mac OS 9, and the Network pane (or is it the Sharing pane?) of System Preferences in Mac OS X 10.3.3 (I'm not at my Mac right now, so I can't test this).

7on · Apr 21, 2004

ElectricSheep said:
Not quite. There is a more fundamental difference between a router and a hub, and it has to do with the way the machines connected to them are linked together. A router will provide a switched network environment. This means that the router will analyze IP information contained in the packet, and will then send the packet to the appropriate port. A hub, on the other hand, is a very simple device that takes incoming data from one port, and then rebroadcasts to every port without looking at the IP information contained in the packet. Its simple to implement, but it doesn't scale very well.

That's what I said.

ElectricSheep · Apr 21, 2004

7on said:
That's what I said.

Yes, but a hub doesn't really 'use' IPs for anything. Its a completely dumb device that connects every port to every other port. It doesn't look at IP headers, it doesn't assume a role for handing out IPs to client machines, it doesn't perform any sort of IP translation (very important if you want to share you internet connection on a local network). If you want to use a Hub, you are going to have to attach some device to handle IP assignment to the hub (like a Router or a cheap box acting as a DHCP host), or assign each machine a unique IP manually. And get ready for lots of data collisions as you add more machines to the hub.

Mebsat · Apr 21, 2004

you might already have a router

alexf said:
I have a DSL connection via Earthlink for one computer. However, all four of my Macs have (somehow) been able to share the connection via the hub.

Should I get a router?

To confuse things further,

Sometimes ISP issued gateways *are* routers, such as some Westell WireSpeed "modems" distributed by Bellsouth. They just don't emphasize this because they want an extra $10/month to support multiple machines.

Are you sure the Earthlink box is not a router?

i.e. can multiple computers access different websites at the same time?

tomf87 · Apr 21, 2004

encro said:
To add to this:

Each computer must have its own unique IP address and you cannot use 127 in the range because that is reserved for loopback.

I'll never understand why there are so many different loopbacks when one would have been sufficient though...

In his example, 192.168.1.127 is a valid address. The loopback subnet you are referring to start with 127 (i.e. 127.x.x.x, such as 127.0.0.1 for your own system).

Sparky's · Apr 21, 2004

wrldwzrd89 said:
Don't forget about AppleTalk! Without AppleTalk turned on (in both Directory Access and the Network pane of System Preferences), you won't be able to see your Mac OS 9 machine. The computer name can be found in the File Sharing control panel of Mac OS 9, and the Network pane (or is it the Sharing pane?) of System Preferences in Mac OS X 10.3.3 (I'm not at my Mac right now, so I can't test this).

I'm frowarding this to work,
Thanks I have checked for Apple Talk on the Mac machines (that's why I"m up and connected now with OS 9 on all Macs cept the clone) When I switch over to Panther I can't see anything except the local partitions, not the Macs, Not the PCs. I was able to get our HP 5000 added to the printer list but now I can't even see the Epson 1520 (posctscript level2 installed) in the printer list! And before you say it I have "Sharing" turned on for the PCs also.

My delema is that I have Panther installed at work and only get about a half hour a day to boot into Panther to get it up and running each day (at lunch) so the process is painfully slow. I'm at home right now and only have one computer runnning Jaguar so I can't do much here and transfer the info to work

Why is networking such a hassle in OS X (for me, at least)?

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