Omniweb 4.1 final is available. [Archive]

Beej

Jun 24, 2002, 07:44 PM

Man, that new icon is fuggo :(

It's pretty fast though. I've been using Mozilla 1.0 since it came out. It's the longest I've ever used a non-Omi browser since switching to X, but there are just so many quirks... it was starting to give me the shiznits.

But now I'm back in OWville. Let's see how it goes. I can tell I am going to miss tabs big time... oh well.
[Mr Omni, if you can hear me... please give me tabs! I neeeeeeed them! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D]

Grokgod

Jun 24, 2002, 07:47 PM

whats with the eggs?

I am really getting sick of M$ explorer....I need a change,,,bad.

mac15

Jun 24, 2002, 08:21 PM

the owniweb update is very nice
It won't be my default browser, but its a nice change

chmorley

Jun 24, 2002, 08:33 PM

Yeah. It's pretty good. It continues to get faster, and is clearly faster than IE at this point (but what isn't?). Seems, though, that browser choice has a lot to do with what sites you go to regularly. There are two that are *must* sites for me--ESPN.com (http://espn.com) and CBS Sportsline (http://cbs.sportsline.com)--and OW chokes on both of them. Mozilla (totally) and Chimera (mostly) renders them correctly.

I root for the OmniGroup, though. I think OmniGraffle is one of the most useful pieces of software I have ever bought. I am sure that they can get the CSS problems ironed out by v5.0.

And...tabs. My primary browser *must* have tabs.

Chris

Backtothemac

Jun 24, 2002, 08:37 PM

Well, I don't know what it is choking on for you, but it is fine for me. I like the speed of Mozilla, but man, Omniweb is fast, and the built in spell checker is really friggin nice. This will be mine unless one of the others gets massively better. We will have to see.

firewire2001

Jun 24, 2002, 08:47 PM

ive never used omni web...

can someone tell me some of the advantages over IE?

for instance, is it faster? does it render faster?.. thanks..

chmorley

Jun 24, 2002, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I don't know what it is choking on for you, but it is fine for me. I like the speed of Mozilla, but man, Omniweb is fast, and the built in spell checker is really friggin nice. This will be mine unless one of the others gets massively better. We will have to see.
Understood and agreed about the spellchecker. I also like that OW can use services--something I think we will appreciate even more when more apps can use them. They are really powerful.

Since it's the same software, I'm pretty sure it behaves the same on your machine. I've see it do the same thing on all the machines I've tried. You're just not looking at it the right way.

At CBS Sportsline (http://cbs.sportsline.com), each sport has its own pull-down menu. Try running the mouse over the "Tennis" pulldown and reading a story. Mozilla, Chimera, and IE all render them properly. OW puts them on the left side, and sometimes off the page.

At ESPN.com (http://espn.com), on the right side (below the headlines), there are three overlapping sheets with tabs. There is a similar deal with four sheets/tabs right below it. OW deals better with this with each release, but running the mouse over the sheets makes them appear and disappear. In addition, it opens a new blank half-page in the process. Mozilla and IE have no problem with this page, but Chimera sometimes has some issues with it.

These are the types of rendering problems that the OmniGroup is aware of. It's the reason they are re-writing the rendering engine from scratch.

If I didn't visit these sites daily, I might seriously consider making OW my primary browser, even without tabs. Again, I really like the OmniGroup, and look forward to them fixing these problems.

Chris

G4scott

Jun 25, 2002, 01:14 AM

Omniweb is fast, it has features that other browsers don't (spell check, which is a lifesaver in these forums for me!, it can disguise itself as another browser, and it can use services), it renders pages nicely, and it doesn't crash as much as IE.

It may not be totally compatible with everything in the world, but they're working on it.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by chmorley

Wrong. Not quite as fast as Chimera, but a close second place. Maybe you should try it.

Do you still play Pong? There is new stuff out.

Chris

okay man. thats going to soak into my brain .

dig it.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by Grokgod
whats with the eggs?

I am really getting sick of M$ explorer....I need a change,,,bad.

thanks for asking!!!:D

there an enigma to me.

Geert

Jun 25, 2002, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by firewire2001
ive never used omni web...

can someone tell me some of the advantages over IE?

for instance, is it faster? does it render faster?.. thanks..

OW is pure cocoa, so it uses the build in features of OS X, like spellcheck, services, ....
it should be running much faster in the future when Jaguar comes out.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Geert

OW is pure cocoa, so it uses the build in features of OS X, like spellcheck, services, ....
it should be running much faster in the future when Jaguar comes out.

its pure cocoa???!!!! ! oh crap. you said the magic word.

im going to have to give it a shot see whats up.

McFreggle

Jun 25, 2002, 03:06 AM

Hey, this is great.

I always was a big fan of OmniWeb, and I have been using the OmniWeb 4.1 betas for quite a time now, but yesterday I tried out Chimera, and I was quite impressed...

Chimera is really really fast compared to OmniWeb... Give it a try!

k.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 03:37 AM

is chimera cocoa based? does it use all the features of osx? what browser is best with osx?

McFreggle

Jun 25, 2002, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by krossfyter
is chimera cocoa based? does it use all the features of osx? what browser is best with osx?

I don't know exactly... I'm only using it since yesterday. I only know it's developed for OS X, it's fast, it's good, and it's part of the Mozilla Development Project. It says 'Cocoa based', so I guess so...

k.

http://chimera.mozdev.org/

Backtothemac

Jun 25, 2002, 08:34 AM

Chris, you are right. That is the CSS rendering problems that they have been having for a while. They are saying that it will be corrected in version 5, but it took almost a year for 4.1 to come out, so at that pace, Chimera, Mozilla, and even IE *gasp* will have advanced far ahead of where OmniWeb is. Lets hope they can resolve the problems quickly.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 03:18 PM

ive got exporer, chimera and omniweb running.

im going to see which one i like the most. seems like chimera is the only one that has a tabs option... i like that.

rugby

Jun 25, 2002, 03:36 PM

I keep getting the "bookmarks cannot be saved" bug in OW 4.1. Anyone else getting that?

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 03:50 PM

im using chimera.. right now....working great.

why the hell is the icon titled "navigator" i know chimera is from mozilla and mozilla is from netscape which was called navigator.... but i dont care.... they should titel the icon "CHIMERA" sounds cooler.

reminds me of a mexican dog or something.

chmorley

Jun 25, 2002, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
is chimera cocoa based? does it use all the features of osx? what browser is best with osx?
I am not an expert on what is pure Cocoa and what is not, but my understanding is that Chimera has a UNIX back and and a Cocoa front end, it's not "pure" Cocoa. It is based on the Mozilla project's Gecko engine, so it shares more in common with Mozilla than anything else. Also, my understanding is that Gecko handles a lot of things that a pure Cocoa browser would relegate to (or share with) the OS. This may be why it does not use Services or other features of the OS (such as the spellchecker), and OmniWeb does.

As far as what is the best browser for OS X, people's opinions seem to vary with what they value and need. For me, Mozilla is the best choice. On my machine, only Chimera is faster (but still has rendering problems and is not as stable). Mozilla is incredibly stable and compliant. In addition, it has tabs--something that has become essential to my browsing experience. Also, with the Navzilla (http://www.zukes.com/mozilla/navzilla/) theme, it looks great.

The only way to know what is best for you is to try each for a few days. If you try Mozilla and Chimera, make sure to try out tabs (Cmd-t).

Chris

p.s., just say your post--don't know why I couldn't see it before. I agree about the whole Chimera/Navigator thing--it's strange and a bit confusing.

Mexican dog...that's funny. :p

G4scott

Jun 25, 2002, 09:34 PM

I found another cool feature of OmniWeb... the speech recognition thing. you can browse a page using your voice, but it dies have some quirks, like for instance, navigating this 'reply to topic' page with the speech would be a nightmare, but some sites are ok with it... I also like how OmniWeb stays out of your way. It actually has a UI that compliments OS X (the first i've seen in any browser. I'm sorry, IE doesn't cut it...). Another thing i like is how omniweb has its default font set to helvetica, or something that doesn't have serifs. For me, things are easier to read that way.

Another browser that may have some promise is Netscape 7. It has tabs, it's fast, and i'm pretty sure it does anti-aliasing. The only thing that holds it back is the ugly UI, and the fact that it's been bought out by AOL/TimeWarner...

Still, almost anything is better than IE. What i'm looking for, though, is compatibility.

FelixDerKater

Jun 25, 2002, 11:00 PM

That icon has to go! It just looks so Windows XP! The beta icon was beautiful and now this... I guess Apple didn't like how it resembled one of their own icons, but why did they have to make this ugly thing?

chmorley

Jun 25, 2002, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by G4scott
Another browser that may have some promise is Netscape 7. It has tabs, it's fast, and i'm pretty sure it does anti-aliasing. The only thing that holds it back is the ugly UI, and the fact that it's been bought out by AOL/TimeWarner...

Still, almost anything is better than IE. What i'm looking for, though, is compatibility.
What you are looking for is Mozilla (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.0/mozilla-macosX-10.smi.bin) with the Navzilla (http://http://www.zukes.com/mozilla/navzilla/) theme.

It's amazing to me that so many people still haven't tried it.

Chris

krossfyter

Jun 26, 2002, 02:43 AM

what does the navzilla theme add? also is mozilla for osx? or is its osx version called chimera? or is it totally different ...form the same people....with a different look?

krossfyter

Jun 26, 2002, 02:47 AM

chmorlery ... i noticed that it says "mozilla" on the upper left hand side of your browser... im using chimera and mine says "navigator" ..... what do i do to make it say mozilla? do i have to install mozilla not chimera? or what the hell... is it the same thing.... ahhhh so confusing.

by the way your browser is not much differnt then mine...so whats the deal?

chmorley

Jun 26, 2002, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by krossfyter
chmorlery ... i noticed that it says "mozilla" on the upper left hand side of your browser... im using chimera and mine says "navigator" ..... what do i do to make it say mozilla? do i have to install mozilla not chimera? or what the hell... is it the same thing.... ahhhh so confusing.

by the way your browser is not much differnt then mine...so whats the deal?
Mozilla is different from Chimera in a number of ways. First, Mozilla for OS X is Carbon. Second, Chimera is still in beta (or alpha), while Mozilla 1.0 came out last month. As a result, Mozilla is much more stable and renders pretty much everything perfectly. Chimera still has some rendering problems. For example, look at the ESPN (http://espn.com) page that is in my screenshot above. It doesn't render the tabbed style sheets on the right hand side. This is not a criticism. Chimera has come a very long way in a very short time, and we simply shouldn't expect Beta software to work.

Mozilla comes with the ability to use different skins. Many have complained that the UI is ugly. Widgets and scrollbars are rendered by Gecko (the rendering engine), rather than the OS. With Navzilla or Pinstripe (http://www.kmgerich.com/pinstripe/pinstripe.html), most of these things are rendered by the OS, and some say it makes it faster. It definitely takes care of the cosmetic complaints.

Mozilla (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.0/mozilla-macosX-10.smi.bin) is my browser of choice, as it is faster than IE (probably second only to Chimera in speed), more stable than any other browser, and it has tabs. I have used IE twice in the past three months--both times to view Windows Media Player content. I simply don't need it anymore. Mozilla works better, faster, more stably, with tabs.

Give it a try. You'll be impressed.

Chris

AmbitiousLemon

Jun 26, 2002, 03:06 PM

chmorely have you checked out the new pinstripe? ive been using navzilla for awhile and didnt notice taht pinstripe had been updated until a few days ago but ive moved back to pinstripe now. since the two designers are in collaboration with each other im hoping some of the improvements in pinstripe will find tehir way into navzilla.

krossfyter

Jun 26, 2002, 03:25 PM

okay... chimera just craped out on me... now everytime i open it up it crashes. so im on mozilla now...checking it out. horrible icon.... but lets see how it works.

burningwheel

Jun 26, 2002, 04:18 PM

i find Mozilla 1.0 slow on my dual gig. i guess going from page to page is faster than IE but it takes forever to start-up. flash animations seem to be sluggish, more so than in IE. it doesn't render one of my sites right, it leaves chunks out of the sliced up image. it doesn't seem to line them up totally correct. weird. but strange it does let my navigation system work 100% properly, something that doesn't work on any other browser on Macs. strange.

chmorley

Jun 26, 2002, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by burningwheel
i find Mozilla 1.0 slow on my dual gig. i guess going from page to page is faster than IE but it takes forever to start-up. flash animations seem to be sluggish, more so than in IE. it doesn't render one of my sites right, it leaves chunks out of the sliced up image. it doesn't seem to line them up totally correct. weird. but strange it does let my navigation system work 100% properly, something that doesn't work on any other browser on Macs. strange.
True enough. It takes longer to start up than IE, but it hardly ever crashes. I actually keep my browser up pretty much all the time, so I think it's analogous to OS X taking longer to start up than XP. As long as you don't need to re-start, I'll take the more stable (and in the case of Mozilla, faster) to use. It is sluggish with flash animations, but that doesn't affect my life very much. Again, I think it simply goes to whether or not it works best for how you use a browser.

As a matter of fact, AL, I just tried the new Pinstripe yesterday. It's very nice. Have you tried the new NavZilla? It has a smaller footprint than it used to, and looks just a little better than the last version. I will probably switch back and forth between those two for the next couple of weeks.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in on this thread...

Remember when this thread was about OmniWeb?

Chris

AmbitiousLemon

Jun 26, 2002, 11:32 PM

hahaha. Omniweb? of yes... it was about omniweb. im actually more excited about omniweb 4.1 being out because it means development can move completely to version 5 rather than the fact that 4.1 itself is out. if that makes any sense. If the omnigroup can fix all the rendering issues with this rewrite then they will be a tough act to beat. Im just wondering what Chimera will look like when OW5 is released.

The new Navzilla is pretty cool. Finally gave us a way of getting rid of the text. very nice. Still i was impressed by pinstripe when i say he had finally got the blue aqua line below the tabs to remain visible. Hopefully he is teaching the navzilla fellow hwo to do it. pretty cool taht these two guys are competing yet cooperating so much. got to love the community open source perpetuates.

chmorley

Jun 27, 2002, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
The new Navzilla is pretty cool. Finally gave us a way of getting rid of the text. very nice. Still i was impressed by pinstripe when i say he had finally got the blue aqua line below the tabs to remain visible. Hopefully he is teaching the navzilla fellow hwo to do it. pretty cool taht these two guys are competing yet cooperating so much. got to love the community open source perpetuates.
"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit."
Harry S Truman (1884 - 1972)

I think that is the general sentiment in the open source community. Very un-American. Very refreshing.

I also think the tabs in the new Pinstripe look *much* better.

Chris

G4scott

Jun 27, 2002, 12:14 AM

I think I have mozilla on my computer... I'm not sure, i'll have to check... it's just that so many browsers are in so many different forms of beta/alpha testing, it's almost ridiculous...

chmorley

Jun 27, 2002, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by G4scott
I think I have mozilla on my computer... I'm not sure, i'll have to check... it's just that so many browsers are in so many different forms of beta/alpha testing, it's almost ridiculous...
Mozilla's not in beta. Version 1.0 came out some weeks ago. If you don't have 1.0, you should check it out.

Chris

chmorley

Jun 27, 2002, 08:58 PM

Just checking out the latest Chimera nightly. It seems pretty great, actually. It is labelled 0.3.1. It is much more stable than the last few builds I have tried. It does keep doing this annoying thing, though, with jumping down to the bottom of the page every time I hit the spacebar--even when I'm typing in this forum. AL brought this up a few weeks ago. Still seems to be an issue--at least until you fill the text window.

One other thing I noticed, AL, is that the scroll buttons don't work when I am typing here. You get the same thing?

Chris

krossfyter

Jun 27, 2002, 09:03 PM

mozilla seems very stable.

the only thing i hate about it is its netscapish undertones. chimera and omniweb look better in my opinion. but im still using mozilla because its stable. i wish chimera would not crash.

chmorley

Jun 27, 2002, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
mozilla seems very stable.

the only thing i hate about it is its netscapish undertones. chimera and omniweb look better in my opinion. but im still using mozilla because its stable. i wish chimera would not crash.
Glad to hear you like it. I have been a big Mozilla booster for a long time.

Not exactly sure what you mean by "netscapish undertones", but if you mean the clunky scroolbars and such, try installing a couple of new skins.

Try NavZilla (http://www.zukes.com/mozilla/navzilla/) or Pinstripe (http://www.kmgerich.com/pinstripe/pinstripe.html). Both are very good.

I also wish Chimera was more stable. Try the latest nightly build when the site is back up. It seems to be more stable than the last milestone release.

Chris

krossfyter

Jun 27, 2002, 09:35 PM

hey i tried installing that navazilla but everytime it nears the end of the download mozilla crashes.... what the hell? how can i get those downloads? any ideas on whats going on?

krossfyter

Jun 27, 2002, 09:42 PM

i just tried installing pinstripe and mozilla crashed again. ahhhh!

chmorley

Jun 27, 2002, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
i just tried installing pinstripe and mozilla crashed again. ahhhh!
Yes. Very frustrating. I have run into the same thing. However, after it is installed, you can go to "View > Apply Theme >" and select either one.

It only crashes after it is downloaded (and usually installed, as well), so you should have both now.

Chris