Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad

[Eidorian]

Not that I approve of a gaming laptop but it's a nice all around Sony FW VAIO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qui43P1kztw

[AllensRevenge]

You know, using Vaios as an argument against Macs isn't a very good idea, since both companies share the same business model. Well, apart from Sony pushing technology forward.

[FF_productions]

Another stab taken at Apple, will Apple respond?

[ButtUglyJeff]

I was waiting for a blu-ray shot.......

[Schtumple]

The first advert I actually some what agree with, but still, that laptop is not a gaming machine :p

[yoyo5280]

They aren't using sony are they?

As far as I know Sonys are just as/more expensive as mac and I know have lower lifetimes

[clevin]

i thought they would push "gamer" more forcefully, the kid isn't strong enough in this aspect.

[Eidorian]

You know, using Vaios as an argument against Macs isn't a very good idea, since both companies share the same business model. Well, apart from Sony pushing technology forward.

i thought they would push "gamer" more forcefully, the kid isn't strong enough in this aspect.Hopefully they did get the FW model with dedicated graphics instead of the abysmal GMA 4500HD.

[.Andy]

If I had a dollar for every time I've been late for baseball because my computer looked up things too slowly.

These ads have taught me that modern america is apparently a tasteless barren wasteland of empty concrete carparks and warehouse megastores.

[clevin]

Hopefully they did get the FW model with dedicated graphics instead of the abysmal GMA 4500HD.
graphic card is only one part of the story, the other part (the big one) being games are predominantly written for windows..

[dmmcintyre3]

What laptop did he get?

[AllensRevenge]

What laptop did he get?

Not the mac.

[localoid]

What laptop did he get?

Dunno... this one (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665748044) maybe?

[monke]

Funny how Microsoft didn't really probe Apple on the "no games" usual argument.

I kinda laugh at the Apple part though, as usual. Both of them walk up all happy. (Cut scene) Ok attitudes change a little bit. (Cut scene) Nope, they're horrible.

Every time they change scenes, I could see someone in the back being like "YOU CAN'T BUY A MAC. OTHERWISE WE WONT GIVE YOU $1500". :D

[clevin]

Funny how Microsoft didn't really probe Apple on the "no games" usual argument.

I kinda laugh at the Apple part though, as usual. Both of them walk up all happy. (Cut scene) Ok attitudes change a little bit. (Cut scene) Nope, they're horrible.

Every time they change scenes, I could see someone in the back being like "YOU CAN'T BUY A MAC. OTHERWISE WE WONT GIVE YOU $1500". :D
I heard Microsoft has a dozen such ads lining up, i would expect a gamer come up soon.

not they can't, but $1500 rally wont cover a mac. cheapest mac with larger than 13.3 screen costs $2000.

[alphaod]

Every time they change scenes, I could see someone in the back being like "YOU CAN'T BUY A MAC. OTHERWISE WE WONT GIVE YOU $1500". :D

I wouldn't do a commericial like that for just $1500 :p

[chris200x9]

the last frame of that video is priceless :D

[kindablue09]

If I had a dollar for every time I've been late for baseball because my computer looked up things too slowly.

These ads have taught me that modern america is apparently a tasteless barren wasteland of empty concrete carparks and warehouse megastores.

+1

This ad just proves that people are too dumb to shop for themselves. A gaming laptop for an 11 y/o (who doesn't even know that most games are not supported by os x)? He'd be way better off spending the cash on a tower and a monitor. Or an PS3 and 600$ laptop. Anything is better than that choice.

[clevin]

+1

This ad just proves that people are too dumb to shop for themselves. A gaming laptop for an 11 y/o (who doesn't even know that most games are not supported by os x)? He'd be way better off spending the cash on a tower and a monitor. Or an PS3 and 600$ laptop. Anything is better than that choice.
there is really no surprise, apples' pc vs. mac ads already proved your conclusion, soundly. ;)

[gkarris]

Ooooh, on the first page!

Another "find a PC under $1,500" (like that'll be hard) :rolleyes:

Blu-ray on a 16" screen.... yeah, right...

Sony's are great though...

Enjoy....

[cherry su]

the last frame of that video is priceless :D

I'm a PC and I'm 11. And I'm not. O_O

:D

[JoshJosh117]

Please don't post this on the front page...

[zap2]

not they can't, but $1500 rally wont cover a mac. cheapest mac with larger than 13.3 screen costs $2000.
Thats odd, I can find a 20'' and a 24'' for cheaper! :p

[gkarris]

Thats odd, I can find a 20'' and a 24'' for cheaper! :p

Laptop, silly.... :eek:

I think it's a great marketing ploy...

Find customers that ARE NOT Apple customers and give them a free PC to reinforce that fact...

Brilliant! :rolleyes:

[flopticalcube]

I'm a little confused. In the last two adds, Apples have been praised (sexy, cool). The only point they are driving home is that other brands offer cheaper alternatives, which is something everyone knows already. :confused:

[Michael CM1]

"This is Lisa and Jackson." Two seconds in and the voiceover dude can't get his verbs right. He are making Microsoft sound stupid.

I must also again ask what's so special about $1,500. Why not hit $2,000 and actually see if they want the MacBook Pro? Same deal with that first lady. Why not go for $1,000 and see if she'll take the MacBook White? Is Microsoft skeert?

I'm also not too afraid if I work at Apple. Some woman letting her 11-year-old son choose a computer, and one that expensive? This kid gets a gaming laptop at 11 years old?

This is annoyingly hard to fact check. All I know is it's an FW series. Best Buy's Web site doesn't even have this computer, so I can just look at Sony. It "starts at" about $900, and I can't find all the specs. The glaring one is ANOTHER SEVEN POUND COMPUTER. It's also got DDR2 memory instead of DDR3, a stupid move for "gaming." No mention of how loud or hot it gets. This top-end system for some reason wastes space with a dial-up modem AND a VGA output.

The good news is since this is a Sony, at least it has a decent display (1600x900, not that crap display the HP had) and can at least dig Apple for not having Blu-ray when Sony has it in $1,000 computers.

Still, this makes it very simple for us Mac users to easily pick apart the stupid people of the world. None of these three commercials featured people who seemed to ooze intelligence. I guess part of the problem is most smart people do a lot of computer shopping online because you can customize everything so much more. Who spends that much money on what the manufacturer thinks is the best setup? I got lucky since I liked the base MBP, but most people want options. If BD was available, I'd add that instantly.

[Michael CM1]

Laptop, silly.... :eek:

I think it's a great marketing ploy...

Find customers that ARE NOT Apple customers and give them a free PC to reinforce that fact...

Brilliant! :rolleyes:

Next thing you know, Microsoft will pay some analyst to develop some "Apple Tax" chart and say it costs an extra $3,000 to own a Mac instead of a PC, also saying you're required to buy MobileMe on a Mac and not required to get security software on a PC.

[synth3tik]

Damn it, I want to be in the next one.

What I need. A laptop with a built in screen and not a mirror.

MS, call me

[Eidorian]

Damn it, I want to be in the next one.

What I need. A laptop with a built in screen and not a mirror.

MS, call meIt's next to impossible to find a laptop in store that isn't glossy.

[Ivan P]

the last frame of that video is priceless :D

Haha, thanks for mentioning that. I closed the video once it got to the "They agree, it's a PC" part, I forgot that they have a short clip afterwards. So I went back and rewatched it...priceless :D

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/10/microsoft-remains-on-offensive-with-apple-tax-report-and-latest-laptop-ad/)

Microsoft has been particularly aggressive in attacking Apple specifically in their latest television ad campaign as well as commissioning a report detailing what it calls the "Apple Tax".

The latest television advertisement continues the "Laptop Hunters" theme in which a mother and son are tasked with finding a speedy sub-$1500 laptop with a large hard drive that is also good for gaming. Like the previous ads, they specifically point to higher cost of the Apple machines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qui43P1kztw

In a somewhat controversial report, Microsoft commissioned (PDF) Roger Kay of Endpoint Technologies Associates to document what they describe as the "Apple Tax". The report details the price comparison between Apple and PC products and the relative difference.

While few would argue that Apple's machines don't indeed carry some premium, CNet's Ina Fried took a closer look and found the numbers additionally padded in favor of the PC.
Microsoft first started touting this idea of an Apple Tax in an interview last October. I'd argue, as I have, that the tax exists, but it is one that the average buyer knowingly pays for what they perceive as the differences between the PC and Mac experiences. In any case, the economic differences, while large, aren't as big as Kay and Microsoft make them out to be in this study.

Microsoft's aggressive marketing against Apple suggests they are particularly concerned about Apple's growth despite their relatively small overall PC marketshare.

Microsoft's VP of Windows Vista consumer marketing specifically said that they felt that Apple's "I'm a Mac" campaign had an impact and that they were planning on countering it.

Article Link: Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/10/microsoft-remains-on-offensive-with-apple-tax-report-and-latest-laptop-ad/)

[Eidorian]

I don't really use iLife enough to justify buying a newer copy of it.

[Macvillain]

These are getting really lame and very unoriginal

[MarkMS]

At least it wasn't a HP. ;)

[xDYLANx]

Oh yeah, because only kids like Macs...good one Microsoft :rolleyes:

[Telp]

At least it wasn't a HP. ;)

True...If I ever went PC, I would definitely buy a SONY!

[HLdan]

I love the fact they were shopping for a "gaming" PC and bought a Sony Vaio. Off the shelf Sony Vaios don't ship with gaming GPU's and Blu-Ray for under $1500.00 and Sony doesn't even advertise gaming on their PC's. Good one again Microsoft. :p

[iEric]

It's cheaper but the time you spend reinstalling vista makes up for buying a mac.

[HLdan]

True...If I ever went PC, I would definatly buy a SONY!

Actually I would buy a Sony Vaio as well...IF I wanted a PC. The rest of the world of PC lappys are just pure junk. ;)

[survivor]

that's just lame! o well if you have the Cash then go and buy the computer you want and you need if don't have the $ then buy along with your budget expensive or not that's their market
stupid microsoft trying to distroy apple loool:cool:

[zakfox1986]

What's with Microsoft's obsession with Best Buy? Goooood lord. And that girl's voice about drove me insane over the course of that short commercial. :p

[Eidorian]

It's cheaper but the time you spend reinstalling vista makes up for buying a mac.I hate to admit this but I've restored from Time Machine at least 4 times now and I haven't reinstalled Vista yet.

[Evangelion]

So, MS is basically saying that we should stop paying the Microsoft-tax, and switch to Linux? Or is their argument totally opposite when it's their product that costs more?

[mikeinternet]

So they decided to acknowledge the fact that Macs are available at Best Buy as well. And they made poor Lauren run all over the place.

[jwhMac28]

Leave it to Microsoft to create a chart in an attempt to sell their message. I'm going to go watch that awesome unibody video for oh, maybe the fortieth time now. Haha.

[morphineseason]

Yea, they really missed the mark with this one. Gaming is real weakness on a Mac, yet they don't really bring down the Mac for that reason. The kid simply says "EHHHHHH IT'S KINDAAA SMALLLL." Also, in my opinion, laptops aren't meant for gaming, period. Light gaming, maybe, but most can't handle the new stuff coming out, and if they can, you can count on abysmal battery life, temperatures similar to that of the Sun, and something as heavy as a brick.

[SkillsToShow]

Haha, I actually liked this add. :eek::o

[MarkMS]

I love the fact they were shopping for a "gaming" PC and bought a Sony Vaio. Off the shelf Sony Vaios don't ship with gaming GPU's and Blu-Ray for under $1500.00 and Sony doesn't even advertise gaming on their PC's. Good one again Microsoft. :p

Oh wow, I didn't even notice that. You can customize one though on Sony's site. Decent price on a dedicated 512MB video card and Blu-ray.

[BTW]

These are getting really lame and very unoriginal

I'm sure people are saying that about Apple's commercials of late.

I thought this commerial was good. Apple doesn't offer a system with a Bluray player. That is a sure selling point for many people.

Apple has been silent in responding to these commercials. Wonder what they have up their sleeves.

[guerro]

Maybe this is how GM and Chrysler should go about marketing their cars versus Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi. :rolleyes:

How can they make a comparison when they only give the specs for one half of the argument? On top of that, there are many features that can only be had with a Mac. How convenient of them to leave those out.

[HLdan]

Isn't that a Sony Vaio FW series laptop? If you go to Sony's site, you can customize one with Blu-ray (read/write) and a "dedicated" video card* for $1000.

*ATI® Radeon HD 3600 Series graphics with 512MB of dedicated video RAM

I'm not an expert with video cards, but I'm guessing dedicated means a decent gaming computer. It sure beats having an integrated video card.

Right, however I did state, "Off the shelf". You can't get a Sony Vaio gaming PC with Blu-Ray in the FW line at Best Buy for $1500. Also the FW series comes with the same crap screen as Apple's Unibody Macbook.

[TeamMojo]

Anyone notice that it looks like the same Best Buy as the other commercials. Also, (and I know we already know Lauren is an actor) if Microsoft is paying for the PC, is it any wonder they end up with a PC.

The Apple Tax is only the extra cost it takes to configure the foot-in-the-door list price of a cheap low end PC up to the equivalent specs on a Mac.

Try it, go to dell.com and look at the list prices of the base models, and then start adding all of the missing features to get to equivalent Mac specs. Funny how the price goes way up.

[wheezy]

Did you read that 'WindowsTeamBlog' Apple Tax article and actually look at his PDF? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? He throws in every option Apple offers as part of the cost, including 5 years of MobileMe, One to One, and AppleCare (for $60 more than the equivalent Dell Warranty). Oh, and somehow his PC doesn't need Office, Quicken, and 'other software', prices he factored in against the Mac at a price of $289. And let's see, we all know every Mac owner buys an Airport Extreme. Aaaand, upgrades iLife every year. He factors in $70 for that upgrade but fails to mention that the 'equivalent' apps that are crap-loaded on your PC's with just trial versions are good for 30 days and to buy would cost several times more than iLife! Ugh. I know we have lame fanboys on the Apple side of the fence, but that 'official M$ employee blogger' is just sick. Sick sick sick!

</rant>

[Telp]

Yea, they really missed the mark with this one. Gaming is real weakness on a Mac, yet they don't really bring down the Mac for that reason. The kid simply says "EHHHHHH IT'S KINDAAA SMALLLL." Also, in my opinion, laptops aren't meant for gaming, period. Light gaming, maybe, but most can't handle the new stuff coming out, and if they can, you can count on abysmal battery life, temperatures similar to that of the Sun, and something as heavy as a brick.

As I was watching this, I was thinking precisely the same thing. Seriously, anyone that wants to do some gaming does not buy Apple. They buy an alienware or something like that. No one in the apple community will be against someone not choosing a Mac for gaming. On the other hand, I dont like all the switchers. So, maybe i hope these ads work. ;):D:apple::apple::apple:

[HLdan]

Ha ha, Microsoft has to PAY people to buy a PC. :D

[Casiotone]

Why does Microsoft suddenly care that much about Apple?

I thought Apple was just a little blip on their radar?

Are they scared of something?

I remember a time when Apple completely fell of the face of the earth, and most people didn't even know if they still existed. While these ads might damage Apple to some extent, they also "officially" acknowledge their existence as a direct competitor, as a viable alternative...

If anything, we might get the best of both worlds because of these ads. Apple may lower it's prices (up to a point) and awareness of the Apple alternative will rise even more.

[Love]

This one was kind of cute but these are still poor ads.

[MarkMS]

Right, however I did state, "Off the shelf". You can't get a Sony Vaio gaming PC with Blu-Ray in the FW line at Best Buy for $1500. Also the FW series comes with the same crap screen as Apple's Unibody Macbook.

I know, I just noticed my error as soon as I posted it. I need to get some sleep and not post/rant about these ads! :D

And about the screen, that is why I always spring for the MBP. The MacBooks are great, but I can't go from a beautiful LCD to a crap LCD.

[bbud]

the concept of a kid buying a PC over a MAC due to its gaming capabilities, blu-ray and cost is fair enough, and a worthy point for MS to make snide statements...

but true to the trend of microsoft and its advertising 'gurus'... they executed this so poorly... even a mac person like me could instantly think up a more convincing ad.

a good thing these microsoft ads never reach TV in australia!...

1 out of 10.:rolleyes:

[Telp]

Ha ha, Microsoft has to PAY people to buy a PC. :D

To be fair, if Apple said they'd buy me a computer, anyone I wanted, I'd sure as heck let them =p.

[FieryFurnace]

Nice commenrcial - cute how the boy seems real happy to get a new "toy". :)

[VSMacOne]

I'm not really a Windows HATER, but dang... these commercials are SOO lame!
YES Apple laptops are more expensive, YES they don't have Bluray ... SO WHAT?! Geez... I mean Apple's "i'm a Mac" commercials were far more original and competitive than this lame "I'm a PC" attempt from Microsoft... I just HATE HATE HATE STUPIDDDD! :rolleyes:

... sorry I had to vent :p

[mikeinternet]

Try it, go to dell.com and look at the list prices of the base models, and then start adding all of the missing features to get to equivalent Mac specs. Funny how the price goes way up.

Good point but it's never going to be 'equivalent' with Mac OS.

[Peace]

That guy is using some real fuzzy math. I certainly hope he doesn't do his real taxes that way.
:rolleyes:

[alexlovesmacs]

I can't wait to see Apple's commercial against Microsuck I have a feeling it will be good.:D

[srobert]

Wow, I hate that word. Thanks for catching me on that...i think...:)

My favorite OSX trick: difini?[option+esc]tely!

I think it only works in Cocoa apps. Don't quote me on that.

:D

edit: Looks like [esc] by itself is good enough in 10.5. [option+esc] would be the shortcut for 10.3, 10.4 or an upgrade to 10.5. Thanks Telp.

edit2: Looks like F5 does the same thing.

[HLdan]

To be fair, if Apple said they'd buy me a computer, anyone I wanted, I'd sure as heck let them =p.

Oh yes, I agree, I would too. If Apple gave me money to buy any computer I wanted I would take the money wholeheartedly. My joke was that it looks like PC's aren't selling well enough so Microsoft has to pay people to take them. :D

[MagnusVonMagnum]

What I love about these commercials is that Microsoft is probably doing us all a big favor in that maybe they can eventually shame (or due to actual loss in sales) Apple into lowering their prices. Let's face it. Their profit margins are way too high. They could easily sell for hundreds less and still make money. Just offering a mid-range tower to compete with the most typical PC configuration for casual use and gaming would be a good start, though....

[iCantwait]

that was crap. the first one was AWESOME as an ad, now they just crap

[Telp]

My favorite OSX trick: difini?[option+escape]tely!

I think it only works in Apple apps. Don't quote me on that.

:D

You only need to hit escape :)

Oh yes, I agree, I would too. If Apple gave me money to buy any computer I wanted I would take the money wholeheartedly. My joke was that it looks like PC's aren't selling well enough so Microsoft has to pay people to take them. :D

Hahah. I got what you were saying. I was just pointing out... Giving M$ a litle more credit ;).

[samh004]

As much as Ballmer says there is no threat, there must be some threat if they're going to these lengths to drive PC sales.

Funny though how it seems Blu-ray was a big decision-making factor in the purchase. Oh and I loved how it needed to be fast so they could look up stuff and then get out to baseball. I would of thought that kind of speed would be dependant on their broadband. :p

[cshen]

16 inch laptop for a kid, seriously??

[Telp]

As much as Ballmer says there is no threat, there must be some threat if they're going to these lengths to drive PC sales.

Funny though how it seems Blu-ray was a big decision-making factor in the purchase. Oh and I loved how it needed to be fast so they could look up stuff and then get out to baseball. I would of thought that kind of speed would be dependant on their broadband. :p

Once again, I was thinking that as well. But then i realized, most people don't understand the difference. To them, fast computer == automatically fast internet.

[coolfactor]

I hate to admit this but I've restored from Time Machine at least 4 times now and I haven't reinstalled Vista yet.

Restored your OS X installation? In what timeframe? That's highly unusual.

[djellison]

These are getting really lame and very unoriginal

You want Lame and Unoriginal, look at Apple's 'I'm a Mac' adverts.

Microsoft are just raising awareness of the inconvenient truth.

Mac's are overpriced.

Most here are prepared to swallow that price margin, combined with limited features, poor components, and proven issues regarding build quality. Many without complaining about it.

Personally ANYONE who's prepared to raise awareness of that in the wider public, is doing both Mac AND PC users a genuinely good service.

[Eidorian]

Restored your OS X installation? In what timeframe? That's highly unusual.3 times in a few days back in May 2008. It was some wonky update problem that I couldn't fix. I saved my updates after I had to download them the second time.

[coolfactor]

...Oh and I loved how it needed to be fast so they could look up stuff and then get out to baseball. I would of thought that kind of speed would be dependant on their broadband. :p

Yah, and sadly, in a year, that laptop will get slower and slower as the registry builds up. People don't realize that about Windows vs. that Macs don't suffer from that particular symptom. Startup gets slower as more startup items are installed, but you don't need to restart your Mac every day or even every month, so it's a moot point.

[jbgh]

My favorite OSX trick: difini?[option+esc]tely!

I think it only works in Apple apps. Don't quote me on that.

:D

OH... MY... GOD!

and i thought cmd control 'd' was cool

[HLdan]

My favorite OSX trick: difini?[option+esc]tely!

I think it only works in Apple apps. Don't quote me on that.

:D

I didn't know you could do that. Nice find! :)

[srobert]

OH... MY... GOD!

and i thought cmd control 'd' was cool

You only need to hit escape :)

As Telp pointed out, it looks like [esc] by itself will do the job (auto-complete) in 10.5. (I think [option+esc] is for 10.3 and 10.4 or an upgrade to 10.5) F5 will also do the trick. Only works in Cocoa apps (Safari, Pages, iChat, etc) … But I'm going off topic. Sorry about that.

[queshy]

Oh damn -- every time MS releases a new commercial, it turns into a giant 2000 reply Mac vs. PC debate.

These commercials are just what the market needs right now...putting pressure on Apple is GOOD people. If everyone universally agrees Macs are better, what reason does Apple have to continue innovating? The only thing we will get out of these commercials is better computers that cost less (from both Apple and the rest...).

I thought MS was in bed with HP...I guessed they switched to Sony.

[djellison]

Yah, and sadly, in a year, that laptop will get slower and slower as the registry builds up. People don't realize that about Windows vs. that Macs don't suffer from that particular symptom. Startup gets slower as more startup items are installed, but you don't need to restart your Mac every day or even every month, so it's a moot point.


Sounds like Safari on EVERY MAC I'VE EVER OWNED.

It gets slower and slower and slower, until I spend an afternoon on google trying to find out what the hell is going on without ever getting a proper solution.

[beg_ne]

What I love about these commercials is that Microsoft is probably doing us all a big favor in that maybe they can eventually shame (or due to actual loss in sales) Apple into lowering their prices. Let's face it. Their profit margins are way too high. They could easily sell for hundreds less and still make money.

In that case feel free to buy a refurbished Mac, they are awesome and basically brand new, and can be hundreds of dollars cheaper.

Just offering a mid-range tower to compete with the most typical PC configuration for casual use and gaming would be a good start, though....

This is just dreaming, we will NEVER see a mid-range Mac tower in the future. EVER. Mid-towers cater to few people outside the hardcore gaming nerd or cheap business PC demographics. Most consumers want laptops not some big bulky ugly POS taking up space in their homes. Face it "gaming" will never be big on Mac and IMO unless some big changes happen gaming on PC's will probably be dead well within a decade too.

[hiimamac]

I'm sure people are saying that about Apple's commercials of late.

I thought this commerial was good. Apple doesn't offer a system with a Bluray player. That is a sure selling point for many people.

Apple has been silent in responding to these commercials. Wonder what they have up their sleeves.

as a pro user, FCO, motion, and apples crippling if no dedicated gpu under two grand, plus gaming, I am thrilled with these commercials. No blue ray, et-cetera. Apple one crippled the MacBook simply because barefeats and other sites reported you could run motion and open gl went from171% down to 70% with past x1300 gma something. Can't remember the exact name, plus typing on iPhone. N e way, hope apple stops worrying about the .001 pro market and release dedicated gpu in all devices.

[dAlen]

If I get a PC it will be the Lenovo W700ds, and its over 5k.
1GB video card (now thats topping apple), etc. - but the price is up there...and its not pretty. ;)

So the commercials of the cheaper PC are really a lie...also, Microsoft should capitalize on the fact Vista can run on a mac...not work against that fact.

Give me a Lenovo that has the glass track pad and looks of the unibody, and your on to something. :D

[sandyclawz]

As I understand Microsoft begin this attack, because fear of Iphone platform. It is too good and with Android, Symbian, WebOS in parallel it can lead to total disappear of Windows Mobile platform. Windows Mobile 7 is outdated even now. And Microsoft understand it. So it bad policeman now ;)

Iphone leads to a great amount of switchers. Microsoft tries to fear them!

If talking about this ad, than Microsoft third time showed very strange persons. Who bought something totally weird. This Sony FW isn't game platform. If consultants don't say them in Best Buy - they are incompetent. Look into description of video card bundled:

" ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3650 with 512MB vRAM
With ATI® Radeon HD 3600 Series graphics with 512MB of dedicated video RAM, you'll experience the power of HD. Additionally, ATI Radeon™ HD 3600 Series graphics processors deliver break-through efficiency from cutting-edge technology and new energy-saving features that can help lower your energy costs and enable cool, quiet PCs."

It's video notebook, not game notebook. :)

[localoid]

While the Mac and Windows denizens have been focused on the Microsoft’s Laptop Hunters ad campaign the Linux Foundation have been working on a contest featuring user created ads that would showcase “just what Linux means to those who use it.”

The recently announced (http://www.findmysoft.com/news/We-Are-Linux-Ad-Winner-Announced-Linux-Foundation-Collaboration-Summit-Kicks-Off/) winner of the "We Are Linux" user created ad competition is the “What Does It Mean To Be Free? (http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1106)” video created by Amitay Tweeto, a 25-year old graphic designer from Israel. The Linux Foundation recognized two runner-ups as well: The Origin (http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1262) and Linux Pub (http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1057).

[djellison]

In that case feel free to buy a refurbished Mac, they are awesome and basically brand new, and can be hundreds of dollars cheaper.

And still over-priced. It's what I've done three times - buy a referb. It takes the sting off, but imho, still puts their laptops WAY over the price that most people are prepared to pay.

I have never recommended a Mac to a friend or family - because I'm not prepared to ask them to spend £1K on a laptop that doesn't have firewire, has a crap screen, need's adaptors to plug into a monitor, only has two USB ports - and they're too close together.

It's blinkered ignorant Apple fanboyism to deny the inconvenient truth - Apple's stuff is too bloody expensive.

[Shookster]

Since Macs are basically PCs now, the only real difference is the OS. This is the area in which MS directly competes with Apple but it is completely ignored. And this ad didn't exploit the lack of gaming or Blu-ray on the Mac. The kid was happy that his laptop had Blu-ray but it wasn't stated that the Mac didn't.

So once again a missed opportunity by Microsoft. They clearly don't get it.

[sahni130]

And still over-priced. It's what I've done three times - buy a referb. It takes the sting off, but imho, still puts their laptops WAY over the price that most people are prepared to pay.

I have never recommended a Mac to a friend or family - because I'm not prepared to ask them to spend £1K on a laptop that doesn't have firewire, has a crap screen, need's adaptors to plug into a monitor, only has two USB ports - and they're too close together.

It's blinkered ignorant Apple fanboyism to deny the inconvenient truth - Apple's stuff is too bloody expensive.

don't buy them then. it's quite simple really.

[winninganthem]

Regardless of what system people think is better, I think it is good that Microsoft has finally responded to Apple's ads, and now Apple might find a reason to become even more competitive with their prices and product features. This is a good thing for all consumers.

[Matariel]

Microsoft is onto a great strategy with these, they're starting to point out features that the Mac just doesnt support.

Blu-Ray!

Honestly, a 16" laptop with a Blu-Ray drive, that's good for gaming, all under $1500 is a pretty damn good deal, anything Apple offers doesnt even come close.

[vipergts2207]

As I was watching this, I was thinking precisely the same thing. Seriously, anyone that wants to do some gaming does not buy Apple. They buy an alienware or something like that. No one in the apple community will be against someone not choosing a Mac for gaming. On the other hand, I dont like all the switchers. So, maybe i hope these ads work. ;):D:apple::apple::apple:

I bought my MBP to do some gaming. A good decision I'd say too. MBP's have good graphics cards compared to most laptops which is arguably the most important component in computer gaming.

[Scottsdale]

This commercial hit Apple for its failure to acknowledge and incorporate new technologies like Blu Ray. In addition, games are a joke on the Mac.

Maybe it is going to take a bad economy and a great competitor to make the Mac into the great computer we know it could be.

Sure OS X blows away Windows. And the iLife 09 package is amazing. But Apple continually fails to adopt new technologies that could make people jump from the PC to Mac.

I could not live without my Mac, but I sure wish it had MANY of the capabilities available on the Windows/PC side.

Apple needs to truly upgrade its Macs this year. Except for the Mac Pro, the CPU upgrades have been a joke for the last few years. Still not adopting Quad Core for notebooks, or i7 for the iMac.

In addition, Apple needs to at least add Blu Ray as a BTO option on its notebooks. And would it hurt Apple to throw in a real dedicated graphics on its MB, MBA, and Mac mini. How much does 256 MB of RAM cost!

I pay a small fortune for every Mac I own... I feel the extra costs would be worth it if Apple kept up with technology. The problem is Apple is way behind in technology, but way ahead in design and innovation. If it could sell us updated technology, it would be worth the extra money... until then, the PC really does lead this battle.

Cannot watch a Blu Ray on a $4k Mac Pro. Funny thing is, I don't even care about Blu Ray, but as an Apple stockholder, I wish it was available for all of those that are buying PCs instead of Macs. Apple needs to boost the technology in all of its Macs this year. I want Apple to be innovative and yet current and relevant with its technology. A shiny glass trackpad is nice, but it cannot cost Apple more than a few cents to make. If I am paying $2499 for a notebook, I expect real upgraded performing hardware components capable of at least matching a $1500 Laptop. That is still $1000 of Apple tax. The problem is we are paying MORE than that...

Sad really, that Microsoft has an edge. With all of Apple's greatness, comes its failures as trying to save so much by not including current hardware, and yet selling every Mac for premium dollars.

I think this year Apple will see an end to the growth it had with Macs. It will blame it on the economy. However, the real reason is that Apple is losing its relevance to those that are not die hard Apple fans. Those that have to think about if they really want to compare a PC to a Mac are going to choose the PC. They can get a lot more power and capabilities for half the money.

Sad really. And I own three Macs right now, but I know PCs have the edge for MOST people. Only us Mac addicts are buying Macs with half the capabilities and power for double or triple the price.

[chr1s60]

That Apple Tax thing is total BS. He just throws in all this crap that Mac users don't need or even buy a lot of the time. Then he has the nerve to not even include an antivirus in the software section for PC. It's funny to see Microsoft so scared of a company that really is not a serious threat to them at this point in time.

[Mad Mac]

Right, however I did state, "Off the shelf". You can't get a Sony Vaio gaming PC with Blu-Ray in the FW line at Best Buy for $1500. Also the FW series comes with the same crap screen as Apple's Unibody Macbook.

Can you get a Macbook or Macbook Pro anywhere with Blu-ray, off-the-shelf or not? Didn't think so.

You can get a Vaio FW from Newegg "off-the-shelf" for $1300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117857


For $1300 you get:
XBRITE-Full HD 16.4" screen, 1920x1080 resolution smokes the 15" MBP and for all intents and purposes matches the 17"MBP.
Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz.
4GB RAM (with Vista 64-bit to use it all).
Dedicated 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 video card.
Blu-ray drive that's not even available on a Mac.
Magnesium alloy cage.
Chicklet keys (that Sony had first and Apple copied) that work better than Mac's version.
6.4 pounds light.

Like I said in the other laptop hunter thread, the Vaio FW offers performance and value in a nice package that Apple can't touch.

As for the "crap screen"? I don't think so. The resolution smokes the MB and 15.4" MBP and matches the 17" MBP.

[doobi18]

I completely fail to understand comparison on a feature-for-feature basis. Who cares if there is a slightly bigger hard-drive or more RAM for your buck - the fundamental difference is that an Apple computer WILL RUN OSX out of the box.

That should always the determining factor - the OS difference is a billion times more significant than any hardware difference, a fact that is not addressed in these ads.

//doobi18

[opeter]

That was one of the best ads, out of three... I liked it very much.

They could also show an add, where they are shoping for a desktop machine.

[punitnaker]

I am more than happy to pay the Apple Tax

Why? Because Apple clearly pump that money into R&D to give us market leading innovative products, both software and hardware.

Without a big R&D budget, I couldn't see the iPhone or Unibody Macbook/Pros or Mac OS and all the software you get with it.

Apple innovate, they lead the market with their product launches. Paying or that is not a problem for me.

[chr1s60]

I have never recommended a Mac to a friend or family - because I'm not prepared to ask them to spend £1K on a laptop that doesn't have firewire, has a crap screen, need's adaptors to plug into a monitor, only has two USB ports - and they're too close together.


Kind of like why I won't recommend anyone to buy a PC because I am not prepared to ask anyone to spend more than $200 for a machine with Windows Vista, which is a horrible OS. I don't care if it has 20 USB ports, firewire, and a 6TB HD, if the OS sucks, what good are all of the features???

[macuserx86]

Actually I would buy a Sony Vaio as well...IF I wanted a PC. The rest of the world of PC lappys are just pure junk. ;)

Bad call mate, we used to buy exclusively sony computers in our household and I can tell you from experience that they are overpriced *****. Build quality is pathetic, and you get very little for your money. Not to mention the insistence of including Memory stick slots everywhere, who the hell uses Memory stick?!

[sharp65]

Kind of like why I won't recommend anyone to buy a PC because I am not prepared to ask anyone to spend more than $200 for a machine with Windows Vista, which is a horrible OS. I don't care if it has 20 USB ports, firewire, and a 6TB HD, if the OS sucks, what good are all of the features???

*yawn* the same old baseless arguments are getting old. You should really try thinking of something that at least has some merit.

[RaZaK]

sooooo..... let me get this straight.
$300 million in ad money to Seinfeld and those clowns behind the Burger King....
oh well, that didn't work. let's beat Apple on price.... It might be a valid comparison if Microsoft dictated the price of the hardware and if they had a stable\secure\non-annoying operating system! (Windows 7 doesn't count because it's not released yet)

oh snap! yes, i said it. :p

i know i'm being silly, but i'm just rising (or sinking) to the level of maturity of these ads. Microsoft should have used that ad money more wisely. How about free upgrades to Windows 7 for the poor consumers who got screwed over by Vista's performance? and, how about MS makes sure that Windows 7 is more secure than Fort Knox?

[Pants Dragon]

My favorite OSX trick: difini?[option+esc]tely!

OH... MY... GOD!

and i thought cmd control 'd' was cool


I'm really confused. I can't figure out what either of these do. Or how to use them.:confused:

[Bonte]

This is the biggest advertising Apple got for free, the Mac gets more attention than any other brand in these commercials. :)

[Biolizard]

*Dr Cox voice* Dear God, that is one high-pitched kid.

[moutian]

Grow up, kid! Then you will like a mac.

[RaZaK]

If I get a PC it will be the Lenovo W700ds, and its over 5k.
1GB video card (now thats topping apple), etc. - but the price is up there...and its not pretty. ;)

So the commercials of the cheaper PC are really a lie...also, Microsoft should capitalize on the fact Vista can run on a mac...not work against that fact.

Give me a Lenovo that has the glass track pad and looks of the unibody, and your on to something. :D

i don't think they want to publicize Vista running on the Mac since it's been proven Vista runs better on Macs than most comparable PC hardware. I know i'm going to get asked for a link, but there were reviews and comparisons done out there, people. just google it.

[WeegieMac]

The adverts do make sense to those who they are targeting, but to people who are (to use Gianpaolo's term) "Technically Savvy", these ad's won't sway anyone. This latest ad is amusing in that no-one I know who games on PC via laptop would consider a Sony Vaio, and Sony themselves do not consider their laptops to be gaming systems.

These ad's are however, the very embodiment of Steve Ballmer, a man who regardless of his position or the company he works for, I personally find to be am embarrassment to the human race. Any man, and I mean ANY, who leaps onto stage to deliver a keynote while screaming, "WOOOO! GIVE IT UP FOR ME"! as they sweat an obscene amount from every pore.

And the awfully scripted line of "Maybe we'd rather buy PC" that the little boy mumbled out should have been re-shot to make him look less disappointed.

As for Blu-Ray, I don't want nor need it in my Mac when I have a dedicated player hooked up to my HD projector. That's just me though.

[wesrk]

just have Apple to a follow up to any of these ads, but more to the point this one with the kid, flash forward 2 months and have the kid complaining about his laptop having the new-trendy virus that's going around to the geek squad guys :D

sorry, I was just at best buy last night and saw the computer the second ad guy bought and some guys were saying somewhat the same thing I wrote.

[Mr. Giver '94]

These ads are so ridiculous because the only brand they mention is Apple.





I think the Microsoft marketing team needs a refresher course in basic advertising. ;)

[BlizzardBomb]

Can you get a Macbook or Macbook Pro anywhere with Blu-ray, off-the-shelf or not? Didn't think so.

You can get a Vaio FW from Newegg "off-the-shelf" for $1300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117857

Wow, that's a very good deal.

[chr1s60]

*yawn* the same old baseless arguments are getting old. You should really try thinking of something that at least has some merit.

When Microsoft fixes it people will stop saying it. You are lying to yourself if you think Vista is a good OS.

[WeegieMac]

*Dr Cox voice* Dear God, that is one high-pitched kid.

Quoted cause it made me laugh ... *Scrubs fan here. :D

Although I'd have gone with, "For the love of God, Molly ... why did you buy a Vaio for gaming? They're so bad that even if you had to rescue my salt soaked body from the ocean, and breathe life into my lifeless body, I would still be upset that the computer you chose was a Vaio"!

[DMann]

I love the fact they were shopping for a "gaming" PC and bought a Sony Vaio. Off the shelf Sony Vaios don't ship with gaming GPU's and Blu-Ray for under $1500.00 and Sony doesn't even advertise gaming on their PC's. Good one again Microsoft. :p Shhhhhhhhh! This defeats the entire focus of the ad.

So, MS is basically saying that we should stop paying the Microsoft-tax, and switch to Linux? Or is their argument totally opposite when it's their product that costs more? Next ad: IT apprentice walks in looking for a laptop under $1500, at MS's request. He looks at a Dell, and requests that LINUX be installed for the OS. Now, there's a PC for ya.

So they decided to acknowledge the fact that Macs are available at Best Buy as well. And they made poor Lauren run all over the place. Typical MS oversight.

Yea, they really missed the mark with this one. Gaming is real weakness on a Mac, yet they don't really bring down the Mac for that reason. The kid simply says "EHHHHHH IT'S KINDAAA SMALLLL." Also, in my opinion, laptops aren't meant for gaming, period. Light gaming, maybe, but most can't handle the new stuff coming out, and if they can, you can count on abysmal battery life, temperatures similar to that of the Sun, and something as heavy as a brick. He got want he wanted, and will soon live to regret it.

Ha ha, Microsoft has to PAY people to buy a PC. :D How else would they be able to bribe people to buy this dreck?

To be fair, if Apple said they'd buy me a computer, anyone I wanted, I'd sure as heck let them =p. They don't seem to have the need to beg.

I can't wait to see Apple's commercial against Microsuck I have a feeling it will be good.:D Clear, simple, and to the point.

My joke was that it looks like PC's aren't selling well enough so Microsoft has to pay people to take them. :D

They've been doing this for the XBox for years - losing millions per year by literally subsidizing them in an attempt to compete with the gaming console market, resulting in MS taking a huge loss with every unit sold - Great business model.

As much as Ballmer says there is no threat, there must be some threat if they're going to these lengths to drive PC sales.

Funny though how it seems Blu-ray was a big decision-making factor in the purchase. Oh and I loved how it needed to be fast so they could look up stuff and then get out to baseball. I would of thought that kind of speed would be dependant on their broadband. :p Sure, didn't you know? A PC running Windex can make dial-up scream.

[mosx]

Another great ad that points out many facts.

First being that you can get much better hardware for a much lower price with PCs.

Second being that Apple fails to adopt new technologies, like blu-ray.

Third being that Apple just doesn't give you choice at all. Again, its the iWay or the highway. No real choice in hardware or options.

[Christopher8258]

You will get more bang for your buck with a pc. A mac is used to look pretty at the local coffee shop while you blog about how bad vista is.

[Howmanoid]

To say that MSFT is on the offense is to turn this whole thing on its head. They are frantically thrashing, looking for one thing, any thing that they can hang their hat on. That "thing" right now is the price of OTHER PEOPLE'S hardware. Remember punters, MSFT DOESN'T MAKE PCs.... It's an important point. Why? Because they act like the WalM*rt of software. it's in their interest to have cheap hardware coz it offsets the MICROSOFT TAX that the whole computer industry had been paying for decades.

To call this marketing collateral a "report" is to give it status it never deserved. Page one admits - "Sponsored by Microsoft".. For those of you not in marketing roles, that doesn't mean that they give money to charity, it mean THEY PAID FOR IT.

Poor desperate Microdorks.. Saddled with crappy OSes that are bug traps on a good day and virus magnets the rest of the time. The only thing they can do is try to draw parallels between Cadillacs and Pintos to try to deflect the hard hitting truth that they are slow, old and way behind the curve in terms of what the market wants.

Windows 7?? The savior? I doubt it. It's window dressing (pardon the pun) on an OS that's been creaking at the seams for years as it's desperately hung onto backwards compatibility at the expense of the thing that MSFT always claim, innovation. You can put all all the transparency you like on your window frames and you can render little icons of open documents to make people think that this is new, but you're going to have to face the fact someday that Apple did all that 5 years ago and that all you really have to offer is an OS that you finally stripped the bloat that you claimed was "Core" to the os out of and that you're at last waking up to the fact that Moore's law isn't going to give you a free ticket to write crap any longer.

Poor Microsoft. How totally alone you must feel.

[mosx]

They've been doing this for the XBox for years - losing millions per year by literally subsidizing them in an attempt to compete with the gaming console market, resulting in MS taking a huge loss with every unit sold - Great business model.



You realize that the Xbox has been profitable for awhile now, right? That it was the first generation unit that was a loss leader, not the second generation. The Xbox360 has been quite successful financially and in the marketplace, seeing as how its the only true next generation console that is leading the market. The other true next generation console is in a very distant third among the three available (not counting the PS2, which is in rapid decline).

[localoid]

Quoting from the CNN Money.com article, Is the Apple press falling into Microsoft’s trap? (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/04/05/is-the-apple-press-falling-into-microsofts-trap/):

...the money quote that Dan Lyons (a.k.a. Fake Steve Jobs), writing for Newsweek, got out of David Webster, general manager for brand marketing at Microsoft.

Webster says, according to Lyons, that “the ugly attacks from Mac fanboys are exactly what Microsoft was hoping to provoke.”

“He says the idea was to turn Apple’s ‘I’m a Mac’ campaign to Microsoft’s advantage. ‘We associate real people with being PCs, [but then Apple] ends up looking pretty mean-spirited, the way they go after customers,’ he says. ‘It’s clear that’s who they are insulting.’ At the same time he can’t resist taking a crack at the preciousness of some Mac users. ‘Not everyone wants a machine that’s been washed with unicorn tears,’ he says.”

[chr1s60]

Another great ad that points out many facts.

First being that you can get much better hardware for a much lower price with PCs.

Second being that Apple fails to adopt new technologies, like blu-ray.

Third being that Apple just doesn't give you choice at all. Again, its the iWay or the highway. No real choice in hardware or options.

Lets not forget that we are comparing ONE manufacturer to MANY manufacturers. It would be financially irresponsible for Apple to offer as many models as the combined models of PCs that exist from all the manufacturers.

[ipoppy]

These adds not doing any good for Microsoft. Thats how people exactly see it..."they are particularly concerned about Apple's growth despite their relatively small overall PC marketshare."...and they see Gates panic. Now...whats rats do on sinking boat? And thats whats people do jumping from widowz to mac. Those adds just proofs of what shape microsoft is in.
If they want people back, or stop leaving, they need to redesign all windows right from the start and give totally different look all together. Like apple did for OSX from OS9. Otherwise microsoft will land on seabed pretty soon.

[cg0def]

wtf they go through 2 macs saying only that they are expensive. After that the supposed customer has to go through a boat load of crap before he/she gets something that he/she likes. Is that really flattering to MS? Oh and IT'S NOT A PC! It's a Vaio! I get it that MS is trying to strike back at Apple for the get a mac commercials but this is really lame. After all they are repeating the same dumb thing. Macs are expensive. Get a person that hasn't actually slept though all of his/her econ classes and you'll understand how ridiculous that point actually is MS.

[mosx]

Lets not forget that we are comparing ONE manufacturer to MANY manufacturers. It would be financially irresponsible for Apple to offer as many models as the combined models of PCs that exist from all the manufacturers.

They don't have to offer as many options as Dell and HP combined. But they could offer at least half of what HP does. A $1,000 system with a 1GB GPU, blu-ray, and a 16.4" screen would be a nice start.

[neil1980]

True...If I ever went PC, I would definitely buy a SONY!

I dunno, 2 laptops ago I had a Sony Vaio...

Yes it was the second most attractive laptop I've owned (Unibody MacBook first of course lol) but having paid over £800 for a laptop that lasted 13 months it kind of put me off.

Plus id say if there was an "apple tax" there was definitely a "Sony tax" cost more than a similar model but in a nicer case with a Sony badge on it... and that was comparing like for like, ie. a windows laptop with a windows laptop.

[mosx]

wtf they go through 2 macs saying only that they are expensive. After that the supposed customer has to go through a boat load of crap before he/she gets something that he/she likes. Is that really flattering to MS? Oh and IT'S NOT A PC! It's a Vaio! I get it that MS is trying to strike back at Apple for the get a mac commercials but this is really lame. After all they are repeating the same dumb thing. Macs are expensive. Get a person that hasn't actually slept though all of his/her econ classes and you'll understand how ridiculous that point actually is MS.

You're missing the point entirely.

The ad shows that Apple offers NO choice and is extremely overpriced.

Then it goes on to show that PCs offer EVERY option for EVERY budget.

[ikir]

Pathetic... for example

HMDI PC MAC
YES NO


LOL and Display Port?? :-)


Really lame

[talkingfuture]

Wonder how many of these adds MS has made?

In this add they have a reasonable point about a cheap gaming machine. Each to their own.

[fredsarran]

Why ?? But why are they still going on about ? Microsoft are not making computers anyway ! And everybody knows Vista is crap, just try it and it will crash within the first use.

[gekko]

This is the biggest advertising Apple got for free, the Mac gets more attention than any other brand in these commercials. :)
That's my thought also. I'm thinking if I wasn't familiar with Macs and wanted a new laptop, then these ads would make me want to check them out.

[Richdmoore]

That white paper about the "Apple Tax" is so full of holes it isn't even worth the time debating.

I didn't like the commercial, but they did bring out good points about the Blueray drive and lack of a $1500 apple with a larger (17"" laptop. The kid was annoying to watch however.

Apple needs to answer these ads in two ways.

1. They need to make more ads to educate the public about the extra features you get with a Mac & OS X instead of the PC. Things such as multitouch trackpads, magsafe, immunity to computer viruses need to be put before the general public. The walk in and get applecare should also be played up, maybe by going in to a store where the just bought a PC from the "Geek Squad" and asking them to fix the computer for free, then show them being pawned of to dell, acer, etc....

2. Ads are not enough on their own. They need to do some more innovating, They need to make the larger screen Macbook, without the expensive macpro features. They can still charge the "Apple Tax", but they need offer more than a $1000 small or $2000 large laptop.

It's time to match the Blueray drive option on a Mac. I know they want HD iTunes downloads to displace Blueray, but right now it's not the HD video standard.

I would love a minitower size mac that I could upgrade myself like a PC, but that is not the general market anymore. More laptops are sold than desktops, even if the laptop never leaves a person's house. They have the iMac, while not an ideal desktop for "computer geeks" is good for the layperson.

[Christopher8258]

Why ?? But why are they still going on about ? Microsoft are not making computers anyway ! And everybody knows Vista is crap, just try it and it will crash within the first use.

I'm waiting for mine to crash, 2 years and counting.

[DMann]

You realize that the Xbox has been profitable for awhile now, right? That it was the first generation unit that was a loss leader, not the second generation. The Xbox360 has been quite successful financially and in the marketplace, seeing as how its the only true next generation console that is leading the market. The other true next generation console is in a very distant third among the three available (not counting the PS2, which is in rapid decline).You mean to tell me that MS recouped all of the $4.5 Billion they lost up until the 360 started to turn a profit? I think not.

[podiki]

Yah, and sadly, in a year, that laptop will get slower and slower as the registry builds up. People don't realize that about Windows vs. that Macs don't suffer from that particular symptom. Startup gets slower as more startup items are installed, but you don't need to restart your Mac every day or even every month, so it's a moot point.

One of the better reasons not to choose Windows. It's an OS that soils itself. You will end up installing sooner or later cos the thing gets slower. When I install Vista I'm already thinking of this. I think at this moment I don't even have the Vista drive connected in my pc... ;)

[WeegieMac]

I just read the PDF from Microsoft regarding the Apple Tax over the life of the computer, and did nothing but laugh the entire way through it.

The only thing I do to my Mac through it's lifespan is:


Install more memory, depending on cost, as soon as the machine is bought. In the case of my 2.4GHz iMac it cost me £39.09 to upgrade from 1GB to 4GB, which is fantastic value for money.

Install the latest version of OS X when it comes around. At a cost of £89 in the UK, again it's not breaking the bank.

My latest iMac, a 2.4GHz C2D 20" Aluminum & Glass, cost me just £612.47 thanks to a corporate offer from the Royal Bank of Scotland. In comparison to ANY PC on the market right now in the UK, I'd take this Mac every single time as for little over £600 there's not a PC out there I would consider in place of this Mac.

I don't buy the latest copy of iLife and do not use iWork. Whatever versions comes on my Mac is what I stick with. For serious work I use CS3, and given the cost of that software (on BOTH Windows and Mac), I won't be buying CS4 anytime soon.

I've never bought Applecare before and I've owned 3 Macs previous to this one. I might however buy the Applecare warranty for this iMac, which costs £137 and can be bought before close of business on the 365th day of ownership. So no rush just yet.

I don't pay for any Office software because I use perfectly good free open source Office software like Neo Office or Open Office.

I don't pay for anti-virus software because I use iAnti-Virus.


At a push, over the life of this system, I will spend:

System: £612.47
4GB upgrade: £39.09
OS X Snow Leopard: £89.00
Applecare: £137.00

TOTAL: £877.56 ... which is still £71.44 cheaper than the current entry-level iMac 20" model offered by Apple just now.

You could re-write that PDF from an Apple point of view and make PC's more expensive by assuming, as Microsoft has done, that every PC owner buys Microsoft Office and updates to the recent version at every release, pays for anti-virus software, and buys extended warranties.

A PC, if you look over the lifespan of the computer, WILL come out more expensive due to the fact it's more easily upgradable and users WILL upgrade components. If you upgrade the GPU card, and are serious about gaming, then you're looking at around the £200 mark or more for a top end card.

Most PC owners I know also use free office software like Open Office and use free anti-virus software like AVG, unless their machine comes bundled with the overly intrusive Norton and they install it.

Sorry, but Microsoft spend money getting some bloke to research the long term cost of a computer, but ended up stereotyping and assuming. And, in business, you're always taught to "Never Assume ... because it makes an ass out of you and me".

[MH01]

I can't wait to see Apple's commercial against Microsuck I have a feeling it will be good.:D

Actually apple started it when they attacked Vista openly in their last ads.

[chr1s60]

I find it funny that Microsoft points out blu-ray as a major feature even though they supported HD-DVD. Also, I don't blame Apple for not incorporating Blu-ray into their computers yet. It is still a very new technology that a lot of people are still uncertain about. A lot of people don't want it and a lot of technology people still think it won't last. Blu-ray support can always be added, but if Blu-ray were to stop being produced tomorrow what good would that new Blu-ray drive in you Dell be?

Also, I support Blu-ray and so does Apple as a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association Board of Directors.

[Auld Lang Syne]

Vaio = Sony = Playstation 3 = arch enemy of xbox 360 = Microsoft

;)

[neutrino23]

These ads are getting tiresome already. They should think of something else. At least the Mac ads introduce a new topic each time.

The monetary argument just doesn't fly. Sure, you can get a windows machine for less money on day one, but you have to keep paying and paying after that for anti-virus software, uninstaller software, defrag software and then you have to pay the geeks to clean the machine when it gets bogged down with viruses anyway. My wife's friends go through this. About every 18 months they pay a few hundred dollars to get their machines cleaned up. Maybe if they were IT pros and ultracareful they wouldn't need this. Unfortunately for them they're just normal people.

[jgbhardy]

For $1300 you get:
XBRITE-Full HD 16.4" screen, 1920x1080 resolution smokes the 15" MBP and for all intents and purposes matches the 17"MBP.
Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz.
4GB RAM (with Vista 64-bit to use it all).
Dedicated 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 video card.
Blu-ray drive that's not even available on a Mac.
Magnesium alloy cage.
Chicklet keys (that Sony had first and Apple copied) that work better than Mac's version.
6.4 pounds light.

Like I said in the other laptop hunter thread, the Vaio FW offers performance and value in a nice package that Apple can't touch.

As for the "crap screen"? I don't think so. The resolution smokes the MB and 15.4" MBP and matches the 17" MBP.

Nice hardware, sure just a pity the windows operating system makes it a complete waste of time and money. Seriously that kid's mum talked about doing things quickly and then getting out the door, my friends laptop at the end of lessons to ages to shut down! I'm not exaggerating it really does! He even has slightly better specs then me too!

The problem with these adverts is that its using a companies hardware to advertise the software, if people are wanting a fast reliable machine but a tight budget go linux!!!

Quite a few of my friends who are gamers have bought the new Macbook, they have no hassle with it and find it great for gaming.

When I was looking to buy my laptop back in the summer, I looked at dells and Sony's but constantly fund that the difference in price for the same specs was about £50 some times more expensive on the pc in the case of a Sony. My dad has had a Sony for several years now and he never wants to have one again, due to all the copyright and protection stuff on there that blocks so much even if its legal!

They never really say what the mac has in these adverts they just quickly show about 5 seconds of someone touching it going oooo and then one quick statement 'its small'. They never tell you the specs like they do for pc.

[DMann]

To say that MSFT is on the offense is to turn this whole thing on its head. They are frantically thrashing, looking for one thing, any thing that they can hang their hat on. That "thing" right now is the price of OTHER PEOPLE'S hardware. Remember punters, MSFT DOESN'T MAKE PCs.... It's an important point. Why? Because they act like the WalM*rt of software. it's in their interest to have cheap hardware coz it offsets the MICROSOFT TAX that the whole computer industry had been paying for decades.

To call this marketing collateral a "report" is to give it status it never deserved. Page one admits - "Sponsored by Microsoft".. For those of you not in marketing roles, that doesn't mean that they give money to charity, it mean THEY PAID FOR IT.

Poor desperate Microdorks.. Saddled with crappy OSes that are bug traps on a good day and virus magnets the rest of the time. The only thing they can do is try to draw parallels between Cadillacs and Pintos to try to deflect the hard hitting truth that they are slow, old and way behind the curve in terms of what the market wants.

Windows 7?? The savior? I doubt it. It's window dressing (pardon the pun) on an OS that's been creaking at the seams for years as it's desperately hung onto backwards compatibility at the expense of the thing that MSFT always claim, innovation. You can put all all the transparency you like on your window frames and you can render little icons of open documents to make people think that this is new, but you're going to have to face the fact someday that Apple did all that 5 years ago and that all you really have to offer is an OS that you finally stripped the bloat that you claimed was "Core" to the os out of and that you're at last waking up to the fact that Moore's law isn't going to give you a free ticket to write crap any longer.

Poor Microsoft. How totally alone you must feel.

And the saga of desperation continues, with Ballmer at the helm.

Life without Windows, since he's thrashed the walls

[srobert]

You will get more bang for your buck with a pc. A mac is used to look pretty at the local coffee shop while you blog about how bad vista is.

I swear, there must be a group of PC loving users out there that made a game of registering on macrumors simply to trash the mac. You see more and more of those quick jabs these days.

If you don't fall in that category, you have my sincere excuses, but I fail to see how someone who really believes in what you just posted would find the interest to register here in the first place. No offense intended.

[DMann]

These ads are getting tiresome already. They should think of something else. At least the Mac ads introduce a new topic each time.

The monetary argument just doesn't fly. Sure, you can get a windows machine for less money on day one, but you have to keep paying and paying after that for anti-virus software, uninstaller software, defrag software and then you have to pay the geeks to clean the machine when it gets bogged down with viruses anyway. My wife's friends go through this. About every 18 months they pay a few hundred dollars to get their machines cleaned up. Maybe if they were IT pros and ultracareful they wouldn't need this. Unfortunately for them they're just normal people.

Cost of ownership will likely be the theme of the next "Get a Mac" ad.

[WeegieMac]

The comment about the Xbox 360 being the only true Next Generation platform is the biggest piece of Microsoft propaganda going.

The Xbox 360 was the slowest in catching on to what was needed to be HD, and was behind from launch. At E3 2005 Peter Moore said that the 'blueprint' set aside by Microsoft was that every game should be in 720p HD. 1080p was never mentioned, despite the PS3's looming shadow consisting of true HD 1080p.

The 360 itself shipped with component only, not HDMI ... a major flaw recognised and bemoaned by the industry. It was only capable of 720p and Microsoft themselves said 1080p was "not required" until Sony hit back with their claim that "the Next Generation will start when we enter the market with true High Definition".

Microsoft then updated the 360 with a firmware patch to allow 1080p through VGA and then again through Component. They then denied the need for HDMI only to develop a new chipset (Falcon) with HDMI included and out the box 1080p support.

And then there's the lack of a next generation disc format, something the Microsoft fans have been spouting when comparing Mac's to PC's. The PlayStation 3 was Sony's Blu-Ray trojan horse and it worked. The PlayStation 3 is THE Next Generation platform in that it comes with Blu-Ray, 1080p, HDMI, and connectivity out the box.

I've owned every single system, some more than once (thanks Microsoft), and even though I no longer own any of them due to boredom (Gears of War 2 was nothing but Gears of War 1.5 ... massive let down), I still follow the industry closely.

[Richdmoore]

I find it funny that Microsoft points out blu-ray as a major feature even though they supported HD-DVD. Also, I don't blame Apple for not incorporating Blu-ray into their computers yet. It is still a very new technology that a lot of people are still uncertain about. A lot of people don't want it and a lot of technology people still think it won't last. Blu-ray support can always be added, but if Blu-ray were to stop being produced tomorrow what good would that new Blu-ray drive in you Dell be?

Also, I support Blu-ray and so does Apple as a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association Board of Directors.

While I don't think that Blu-ray should be a standard component, I think that it should be an option available to people who want to purchase it. Right now on Leopard you are out of luck, even if you plugged in a USB drive.

[WickedRabbit]

Microsoft's commercials don't have the flare that Apple's do, but the message they are trying to deliver to their customers is 'choice' and this has been very apparent in all three commercials so far, despite the legitimacy of what actually took place in the commercial (referring to Lauren's).

You take Lauren's commercial and it was a stab at Apple not offering anything for $1000 or less besides a basic Macbook with next to nothing. You look at Giamp... oh hell I'm not even going to attempt to spell that name correctly ... ad and while styling was what most people heard in that commercial, he also subtly referenced the fact that he viewed most Macs as being remotely the same in terms of specs, despite all costing different amounts, which is something I'd have to say I agree with. And finally, the last app reminds customers that Apple offers no Blu-Ray support and obviously gaming is not really an option at all.

For a lot of people, especially the Blu-Ray part, that will be pretty huge. If you've started building up a Blu-Ray collection, why not own a laptop that also has the drive? Saying the VAIO is good for gaming, though, is a bit of a stretch, as I'd rate the cards available in the VAIO and Macbook remotely on the same playing field in that they both suck for gaming. You'd be lucky to play most modern games at 1280x800 with low settings on any card that Apple and Sony provide. If you're a casual gamer I suppose that's not really a big deal, but if you play even slightly more than casual you wouldn't be grabbing a VAIO or a Sony.

You'd probably be looking more along the lines of Alienware and even for about $2000 you can get a pretty solid system with a 9800GT or better. Granted, battery life is not going to be anything (2-3 hours max while gaming), but then again, that's not the point of that laptop. You aren't going to be playing games on a battery. You just want to take it with you so when you get to the hotel you can plug in and play and any idiot in here that actually took a shot at battery life in regards to a gaming laptop is not only an idiot, but also shows that he doesn't play games because GAMERS AREN'T LOOKING AT BATTERY LIFE ON A NOTEBOOK BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW THEY INTEND TO USE THE DAMN MACHINE.

Overall, though, don't expect Apple to particularly respond in terms of price (as I saw a few comments) because the Apple tax (much in the same way there is definitely a Sony tax) will always exist because you're mainly paying for the quality. Sony and Apple build their products arguably in the same fashion, with high quality materials and unmatched screens. They don't have the highest specs, but they will run better than their competitors and to take the side of Sony and Apple as I'm sure they'd argue, MOST PEOPLE (I'd say anyone that doesn't do a ton of video editing/encoding/etc.) do not need a Core i7 and having it is simply just to say you have it. Even a Core 2 Duo 2.4 is overkill for most people. Plus, if you actually think you'll notice an improvement 'browsing the web' on a Core i7 you're highly mistaken. You'll only notice the extra performance boost with applications that are specifically designed to take advantage of multiple cores, which right now are only a very small select amount of higher end games and mostly video/image editing software for professionals. For everyday use, a Core i7 is 100% unnecessary.

I just laugh at anyone who browses the web and goofs around in hacked versions of Photoshop and uses that as an excuse to buy a Mac Pro because he wants the better processor because you have no clue how much of a waste of cash that was for you. But go ahead and continue to be oblivious.

On the flipside, if you are one of those users that actually understands what the power behind the higher end machines and more importantly "actually needs it" then yea, sometimes being an Apple fan will suck because you're only choice will be a Mac Pro, which while being highly powerful is still extremely expensive in comparison to a similar spec'd Windows counterpart.

[RaZaK]

You realize that the Xbox has been profitable for awhile now, right? That it was the first generation unit that was a loss leader, not the second generation. The Xbox360 has been quite successful financially and in the marketplace, seeing as how its the only true next generation console that is leading the market. The other true next generation console is in a very distant third among the three available (not counting the PS2, which is in rapid decline).

Don't get me wrong. I'm a 360 fan to the death, but has Microsoft's gaming business unit really recovered from the financial strain of all those Red-Ring-of-Death replacements? i don't think they're completely out of the red yet(no pun intended). :(

[azentropy]

Best of the 3 so far, but I still feel Microsoft is missing the mark. They should be focusing more on the "choice" aspect. I love Apple, but choice is where they really fail for many...

Something more the the effect of...

Want Blu-Ray?
Want a Large Screen for easier reading (not necessarily just a higher resolution screen)?
Want a non-glossy screen?
Want a computer with a bulit in card reader?
Want a computer with a built in fingerprint reader?
Want HDMI?
Want eSATA?
Want eight billion USB Ports?

There are many PC's that can give you that choice - Mac's don't.
oh yeah, and you can run Windows on a Mac too...

[DMann]

There are many PC's that can give you that choice - Mac's don't. oh yeah, and you can run Windows on a Mac too... Perhaps the greatest selling point for switchers - a choice PC users do not have.

[Christopher8258]

I swear, there must be a group of PC loving users out there that made a game of registering on macrumors simply to trash the mac. You see more and more of those quick jabs these days.

If you don't fall in that category, you have my sincere excuses, but I fail to see how someone who really believes in what you just posted would find the interest to register here in the first place. No offense intended.

I'm here to get up to date info on my iphone that I love. I would like to love their macs also but I just can't pay that much for glossy plastic.

[WeegieMac]

I will admit I think I ditched my Wii a little too early. It's the only system my wife and I could actually play and have a laugh on, but when Wii Fit came out and she said, "Oh that looks good", it was off to eBay I went!

[politickle]

What I see:

"Please, please, please, please stop buying Apple laptops. Damn it, we don't even make laptops. Just buy Sony or something. Please.''

I'm looking forward to the Apple advert that begs people to buy Verbatim disks over Phillips.

[MH01]

Bad call mate, we used to buy exclusively sony computers in our household and I can tell you from experience that they are overpriced *****. Build quality is pathetic, and you get very little for your money. Not to mention the insistence of including Memory stick slots everywhere, who the hell uses Memory stick?!

Never had a problem with my Sony Laptop. It outlived my powerbook. That is my personal experience so I cannot say that all Sonys will out live apples...

Heard of Mini display port? Who the hell uses that?

I am yet to find one video card manufacture that has put that into their product so I can hook up my 24" LED to my PC (i bought it for my macbooks and mac mini)

There is a ATI 4870 coming in about 5 weeks for the mac pro, that might be the only one in existance

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB999ZM/A

Sadly way way overpriced and only the 512 jobbie while the PC equivalents now are 1GB.

[WeegieMac]

I'm here to get up to date info on my iphone that I love. I would like to love their macs also but I just can't pay that much for glossy plastic.

Think you'll find, white Macbook aside, it's made of Aluminum and Glass. :rolleyes:

[Christopher8258]

Think you'll find, white Macbook aside, it's made of Aluminum and Glass. :rolleyes:

oh good! Aluminum and Glass is it exactly what I wanted......

[WeegieMac]

oh good! Aluminum and Glass is it exactly what I wanted......

No, I think you'll find that's a good solid kick in the balls ...

[Christopher8258]

No, I think you'll find that's a good solid kick in the balls ...

But will I be the cool guy at the coffee shop? And only for 3 grand?!? SOLD!

[politickle]

oh good! Aluminum and Glass is it exactly what I wanted......

I assume that is sarcasm?

If it isn't what you want then go and by a cheaper PC. Problem solved because diversity is great. However, it is important to recognise that not everybody wants a ugly, bulky, cheap plastic machine that only runs Windows.

But will I be the cool guy at the coffee shop? And only for 3 grand?!? SOLD!

I'd wager that you wouldn't be the ''cool guy'' anywhere. It would have nothing to do with which computer you had purchased but your attitude.

One thing that really annoys me is when people throw in price as a criticism against anything. The product doesn't change because it is more expensive; the product is more expensive because it is better and, to the people that buy it, it is worth the money. If it isn't worth it to you then go PC. A choice that a lot of people are not wanting to make. Hence these desperate adverts.

[ibook4113]

Yea, they really missed the mark with this one. Gaming is real weakness on a Mac, yet they don't really bring down the Mac for that reason. The kid simply says "EHHHHHH IT'S KINDAAA SMALLLL." Also, in my opinion, laptops aren't meant for gaming, period. Light gaming, maybe, but most can't handle the new stuff coming out, and if they can, you can count on abysmal battery life, temperatures similar to that of the Sun, and something as heavy as a brick.

Yep.... Completely agree, if the gaming world targeted mac more, which they could now that apple uses Nvidia allot, then they wouldn't have the problem. But unless you spend more than the amount he was given, you won't get a good 'gaming' laptop. However they never did quantify what gaming he way doing, i mean is this, "i need a 1GB graphics card" or "I need a 64Mb graphics card".

On the other hand, i bought my Macbook Pro, not expecting to get it any where near Windows, but i put windows on Dual Boot, and my games ran better than they ever did on my computer, and that was meant to be a good one.

I think the whole point is with ALL technology you get what you pay for, i can get a rip off iPod and it will work, or i can get the real deal, and it will work better, ALLOT better.

[WeegieMac]

But will I be the cool guy at the coffee shop? And only for 3 grand?!? SOLD!

Oh, that hilarious argument ... again.

Every laptop manufacturer puts their logo on the lid of their system, be it Apple, Sony with the Vaio, HP, Dell, etc.

When you sit in said Coffee Shop (I don't drink coffee, for the record ... I have high blood pressure and can't drink anything with caffeine), and flip open that laptop, your logo is going to be "on display" regardless of who makes it.

What do you want Apple to do, cover up the logo to allow those engraved VAIO logos to stand out in the crowd?

Honestly, that's the biggest failure when it comes to an argument ... the old coffee shop analogy. It doesn't matter what manufacturer you have, when you sit down and flip that lid open, everyone who looks at your system is going to see a logo, regardless of who's it is.

[vaderhater245]

Whether it was fake or not. the ending kinda made me laugh.

Kid: Im a PC and I'm 11!

Mom: And I'm not!

[hakime]

Can you get a Macbook or Macbook Pro anywhere with Blu-ray, off-the-shelf or not? Didn't think so.

You can get a Vaio FW from Newegg "off-the-shelf" for $1300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117857


For $1300 you get:
XBRITE-Full HD 16.4" screen, 1920x1080 resolution smokes the 15" MBP and for all intents and purposes matches the 17"MBP.
Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz.
4GB RAM (with Vista 64-bit to use it all).
Dedicated 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 video card.
Blu-ray drive that's not even available on a Mac.
Magnesium alloy cage.
Chicklet keys (that Sony had first and Apple copied) that work better than Mac's version.
6.4 pounds light.

Like I said in the other laptop hunter thread, the Vaio FW offers performance and value in a nice package that Apple can't touch.

As for the "crap screen"? I don't think so. The resolution smokes the MB and 15.4" MBP and matches the 17" MBP.

Yes you get quite decent gaming machine with that price, but

- Don't compare resolution on two different size of screens, that makes little sense.

- 4GO ram, but DDR2, all Apple laptops run faster DDR3.

- Vista 64 bits? Is that system that runs poorly 32 bits applications, does not run 32 bits drivers, and has therefore poor compatibility?

- Dedicated card, you get that right, though with a macbook pro you get two GPU chips, dedicated and integrated.

- Blu-ray? Isn't it that crap which slows down Vista as the OS has too guaranty proper reading of protected content? Or is that crap that no one buys for their living room? While Sony is pushing for Blu-ray, Apple is building a totally new over the air media entertainment system. Guess which one will be chosen by customers.

- Magnesium alloy cage? And what, that's still way inferior to what Apple can do with its unibody aluminum design.

-Chicklet keys? What makes you saying that it works better than mac besides your trollism. And regarding who first introduced the Chicklet keys, that's true that Sony had some laptops some time ago with that, but why then they started to use it again once Apple started to use it? And by the way, Chicklet keys is not from Sony in any way, the french Minitel had such keys design.....ah, ah....

-6.4 pounds light? You call this light? Then now, it is confirmed, you are a troll. First of all the sony laptop weights 6.4-7.0 pounds, usually more to 7.0. A Macbook pro 15 inch weights 5.5 pounds. The sony is closer to the Macbook pro 17 inch (6.6), though the MacBook pro 17 is way better in features.

So now, if you want to compare with a MacBook pro, you would get:

- Better OS, and don't forget that Apple develops OS X, Sony does not develop windows, so the price of the machine has to take that into account at some point as Apple spends millions of dollars developing an OS way better than anything Microsoft can offer. I find incredible that so much people and Microsoft forget that.

- A lighter computer and more compact. The sony is 1.14 - 1.46 inch thick, the MacBook pro is 0.95 inch thick. That's a significant difference.

- You get backlit keyboard, light sensor for the screen, sudden motion sensor.

- You get a multi-touch trackpad, well better than anything available on pc.

- You get Firewire 800.

- You get a display port connector. Sony use VGA (yes most pc has still VGA can you believe that) and HDMI, the connector that is going no where in the computer space.

- You get digital audio.

- You get better battery life, Vista performance for battery life is awful.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13

- You get a LED display.

- You get a better environmental friendly product.

So what?

I wanted to say also something on this Apple tax study. Did you notice that the study tries to compare a Mac Pro to a mid-range home system, a HP Pavilion desktop. The study says that a modern Xeon workstation is feature-equivalent to a mid-range home system with a previous-generation Core 2 Quad processor and slower graphics. Do you realize the type of non-sense that it is.

I mean they compare a computer that can hold 32 GB of Ram, 4 TB of storage, than can drive 8 30 inch monitors at the same time, that has 8 processing cores, two independent gigabit ethernet ports, multiple firewire 800 ports, supports SAS disks and ultra fast RAID and has a industry best internal design. They compare this sort of machine to this:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/series_can.do;HHOJSID=G10tJp5GbXjrQjkYFCG8NMpysp525Rg0bQvJscqpn31jJxS10LgM!-1950281248?storeName=computer_store&landing=desktops&a1=Category&v1=Performance%20and%20entertainment#CTO_CAN

A system that holds no more than 8 GB of slow memory, no more than 1 TO of slow storage and which is crap by design. How can it be, how can it make any sense?

I mean does anyone realize the sort of non sense Microsoft is up to, this is simply disinformation, something that this company has proven many times that it can do very well, much better than designing cool products. Just that point makes this Apple tax argument totally meaningless, i mean, if a compare a Dell Precision or a workstation product from HP itself to this HP pavillion, with the huge difference in price, should i conclude that i can speak of a Dell Tax or a HP Tax, or something like this?

[Evangelion]

You're missing the point entirely.

The ad shows that Apple offers NO choice and is extremely overpriced.

"extremely overpriced", how exactly? Are you one of those people who think that value and worth of a computer can be determined by looking at paper-specs and checking off checkboxes? Everyone with a functional brain realizes that that is not an good way to determine value of a computer.

Then it goes on to show that PCs offer EVERY option for EVERY budget.

Does the fact that you can get a PC for less money than you can get a Mac mean that Macs are overpriced? Maybe those cheap PC's cost less because they are also worth less?

Maybe Audi's are "extremely overpriced", since you can get a Lada for about 1/4 the price of an Audi....

[PlayRadioPlay]

Best part: "BLUE RAYYYYY!!!!!!!"

Yeah, Apple, get on that.

[MH01]

Maybe this is how GM and Chrysler should go about marketing their cars versus Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi. :rolleyes:

How can they make a comparison when they only give the specs for one half of the argument? On top of that, there are many features that can only be had with a Mac. How convenient of them to leave those out.


Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and Audi are made in China from the same components as GM and Chrysler???

Like i posted in the last thread, if you want to go down the car comparison path try an Impreza WRX wagon and the Saab 9-2x - Fundamentally the same guts but one has a much nicer body and suspension, so you feel like you are driving a expansive european car. Comparing Mac to mercs, BMW etc is so lame, anyone can save up and buy a macbook...sure you may pay $500 more..... good luck saving up beyond a GM and getting a merc!

Now who will be the first to compare macs to the Bugatti veyron

[cwedl]

Like most people here I use PCs and Macs and the "Apple Tax" for me is well worth the money due to the better experience I get.. and please she wants to check something quickly and head out the door? Macs are so much faster to load than Pcs.

[jgbhardy]

Blu-ray has such a small market share at the amount, people just can't afford to spend the extra money on something they can hardly see the difference in quality.
So why is Microsoft who are trying to convince people to buy something that they say is cheaper and cost effective, when blu-ray really isn't a selling point for someone with a tight budget.

Microsoft still hasn't dealt with the real problem that people find with their operating system when compared to OS X. Even with the hardware being less then the pc, I find the mac makes up for this in how it utilises the hardware it has. The OS just simply runs better making you feel like it has better specs. On paper these PCs may look better but when you get down to using them they just don't work, a Mac however it just works!

Anyone noticed how sony's laptop part of the site is using the same scroll bar thing as apple has for the mac section?

[Temptations]

Once again MS have put more money into advertising than fixing Vista.

[RonMexico]

Can you get a Macbook or Macbook Pro anywhere with Blu-ray, off-the-shelf or not? Didn't think so.

You can get a Vaio FW from Newegg "off-the-shelf" for $1300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117857


For $1300 you get:
XBRITE-Full HD 16.4" screen, 1920x1080 resolution smokes the 15" MBP and for all intents and purposes matches the 17"MBP.
Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz.
4GB RAM (with Vista 64-bit to use it all).
Dedicated 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 video card.
Blu-ray drive that's not even available on a Mac.
Magnesium alloy cage.
Chicklet keys (that Sony had first and Apple copied) that work better than Mac's version.
6.4 pounds light.

Like I said in the other laptop hunter thread, the Vaio FW offers performance and value in a nice package that Apple can't touch.

As for the "crap screen"? I don't think so. The resolution smokes the MB and 15.4" MBP and matches the 17" MBP.

I don't see a shelf.... just sayin

[OS X Dude]

I'm comin' up to that nice point in life where I'm thinkin about replacin' my laptop.... and even though I have a Mac now I don't know if my next choice will be.

I look at Asus ones (not the piddly Eee range) and like them a lot, I was gonna get one before I got this MacBook.

However, I'll wait for MB v2 before I jump out and get the Asus. It'd need FireWire (I'm sure they'll re-add this) and preferably a card slot on top of it's current spec to make me buy.

[Evangelion]

Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and Audi are made in China from the same components as GM and Chrysler???

Well, Audi's use a lot of same components as VW, Skoda and Seat does.... Just because the components are more or less the same, does not mean that the end-result is identical. A computer is more than the sum of it's parts, just like cars are.

It's stupid in the extreme to think that "PC-laptops and Macs use Intel-procesors and similar hard-drives, therefore they are identical".....

Like i posted in the last thread, if you want to go down the car comparison path try an Impreza WRX wagon and the Saab 9-2x - Fundamentally the same guts but one has a much nicer body and suspension, so you feel like you are driving a expansive european car.

It's interesting, really. Comparing (for example) VW and Toyota, I can see that the two have more or less similar specs, but the VW costs a bit more. So I should get a Toyota, right? But when I go and test them both, I immediately find out that the interior of the Toyota feels cheap and plastique, I can't get a decent driving-position (the center-console keeps rubbing against my leg, making longer drives absolute pain), and drive feels flimsy whereas the VW has none of those issues. If we listened to those "Macs are overpriced!"-people, I should get the Toyota, since the "specs" are more or less similar, but the Toyota costs less....

[vvebsta]

favorite part: "BLURAY!!!!!!"

[panagiotisgr]

to say the truth with $1500 max u get an awsome pc something that doent happen on macs. too bad Apple wont let the cats free for the pc.

[zephead]

You know, the most successful ad campaigns aren't the ones that have funny characters, the ones that are the most cutesy, or even ones that tell the truth. The most successful ad campaigns are the ones that get people buzzing about them.

Now how do you get people buzzing about your commercials? Easy, just lie. And if you're not outright lying, you can twist things around so people (i.e. us) notice it and get all up in arms about it.

So in this scenario, Microsoft has been incredibly successful.

Once again MS have put more money into advertising than fixing Vista.
Apple REALLY should re-air that commercial. :D

[DMann]

Whether it was fake or not. the ending kinda made me laugh.

Kid: Im a PC and I'm 11!

Mom: And I'm not!

True that - she's a Mac.

[WeegieMac]

I notice that my point about every laptop manufacturer having a logo on the system lid has not been replied to yet. And why? Because there's nothing the guy can say in reply, because regardless of brand when you open the lid to use the laptop, your manufacturer logo or system range logo is on display, be it Apple, Vaio, Dell, HP, etc.

I find it hilarious when people say Apple users sit in Starbucks and show off ... by doing what, opening the lid to .... God forbid ... use their portable computer? :eek:

[suMMx]

so they're saying apple notebooks are more expensive than pcs? NO WAI! who cares, they're still some of the best notebooks you can buy and for many people it's worth the price. Anyone that was considering buying a mac is fully aware of the price and is willing to forget that and buy one based on the quality of the product and operating system.

[DMann]

You know, the most successful ad campaigns aren't the ones that have funny characters, the ones that are the most cutesy, or even ones that tell the truth. The most successful ad campaigns are the ones that get people buzzing about them. Same could be said of the Ford Edsel - It was heavily advertised, avidly talked about, buzzed about for decades - and successful only at that.

[jgbhardy]

The Apple tax thing is ridiculous with the things it lists, yet you think of all the rubbish that is pre installed on a PC that are just trials!!! Microsoft office student edition $140, are you kidding me and the professional edition is $425?

[DMann]

Best part: "BLUE RAYYYYY!!!!!!!"

Go Sony! Anything to draw attention away from the fact that we have nothing to sell here, directly.

The Apple tax thing is ridiculous with the things it lists, yet you think of all the rubbish that is pre installed on a PC that are just trials!!! Microsoft office student edition $140, are you kidding me and the professional edition is $425?

Apple Tax vs. MS Extortion

[MH01]

Well, Audi's use a lot of same components as VW, Skoda and Seat does.... Just because the components are more or less the same, does not mean that the end-result is identical. A computer is more than the sum of it's parts, just like cars are.

It's stupid in the extreme to think that "PC-laptops and Macs use Intel-procesors and similar hard-drives, therefore they are identical".....



It's interesting, really. Comparing (for example) VW and Toyota, I can see that the two have more or less similar specs, but the VW costs a bit more. So I should get a Toyota, right? But when I go and test them both, I immediately find out that the interior of the Toyota feels cheap and plastique, I can't get a decent driving-position (the center-console keeps rubbing against my leg, making longer drives absolute pain), and drive feels flimsy whereas the VW has none of those issues. If we listened to those "Macs are overpriced!"-people, I should get the Toyota, since the "specs" are more or less similar, but the Toyota costs less....

Really, and what is a Macbook without OS X??? A macbook is effectively a PC that runs OS X, if it was not for OS X alot of us here would not pay the apple tax for the Macbooks

If your pretentious get the VW, if you follow common sense, the toyota is way more reliable then the VW. That should sum it up.

[BlizzardBomb]

Anyone noticed how sony's laptop part of the site is using the same scroll bar thing as apple has for the mac section?

I think it's because Sony use the same development tools as Apple (maybe they work on Macs which would be very ironic). The best proof of this is when they had that mysterious Apple logo on the PS3 page.

[Journojulz]

Yeah - and so?

Its worth it for 3 words "attention to detail"

That obsession to making things easy to use lead to:

* Better OS
* Solid hardware design
* Better quality apps like garageband and iweb

Mac users know quality is worth paying for.
Personally I enjoy the little extras.

What's next - Huyundai running ads about "Jaguar tax"?

Oh hang on - that would make sense, comparing like with like.
Unlike a software manufacturer taking potshots about hardware.
:D
This is more like Pepsi paying to complain about the prices at pizza express

Mind you, can you blme them?
'Vista vs Tiger' wouldn't be microsoft's wisest battle. :D

As one british comedian blogged - "forget the ads - use the money to fix vista!"

[OllyW]

Say what? 3% are you nuts? Apple has never been below 5 and currently they are at something like 9.7%.

Apple's world market share is around 3%. It has only recently got back to that figure after dropping to under 2% at the end of the nineties.

166550

Apple's market share in the USA is a lot higher, though not quite up to 10%

166551

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/mac-market-share.ars

Just remember kiddies, America is not the world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QON6SSMLcC8) ;)

[daneoni]

Cool ad

[MarkMS]

The Apple tax thing is ridiculous with the things it lists, yet you think of all the rubbish that is pre installed on a PC that are just trials!!!

And to think that PC manufacturers have the audacity to actually charge you to remove the trial applications. Some remove the trial applications for free, but they make you upgrade to Vista Business. Either way, you're paying extra for something that should be free.

[Matek]

I don't find these commercials to be anything special, but I think they're quite similar to Apple's Mac vs. PC commercials - aimed at the most visible flaws of their competitor. In MS's case, it's Vista problems, in Apple's it's the lack of choice and higher prices.

I think both of these are pretty obvious facts and it seems unfair to me that many people here are saying Microsoft is pathetic for manipulating the facts and practically lying to the customers, but at the same time these people laugh at the Mac vs. PC ads.

Face it - both have some truth behind them and both do some marketing tricks/manipulation.

[politickle]

Cool ad

What did you like about it?

[sjo]

the ms ads may be crappy but the reaction they cause in apple fans is hilarious. apple has been doing ms-bashing ads for years, if not couple of decades. during the latest jobs era apple ad content has been "hey, im pc, fat and stupid! hey, im mac, thin and kind of cute" and other childish crap.

everyone else than apple fans have just looked them like :confused:

not ms airs ads that actually made a valid point and apple fans are outraged. how funny is that?

c'mon guys, computers are tools! not a religion :cool:

[crossifixio]

Yea, they really missed the mark with this one. Gaming is real weakness on a Mac, yet they don't really bring down the Mac for that reason. The kid simply says "EHHHHHH IT'S KINDAAA SMALLLL." Also, in my opinion, laptops aren't meant for gaming, period. Light gaming, maybe, but most can't handle the new stuff coming out, and if they can, you can count on abysmal battery life, temperatures similar to that of the Sun, and something as heavy as a brick.

:D Funny and true in many ways but I have to say I do use my PS3 for serious gaming however my new mbp can still hand it share of top games on the move!

[byke]

I wonder how much "MS" tax could be claimed on defective design?
Jerry Seinfeldt = 350 million US?

Either way its not my beef, I just wanted to give the sales assistant on
the movie a good "best buy'in"

[rish]

I'm sure people are saying that about Apple's commercials of late.

I thought this commerial was good. Apple doesn't offer a system with a Bluray player. That is a sure selling point for many people.

Apple has been silent in responding to these commercials. Wonder what they have up their sleeves.

I'm certain Bluray would not be a make or break these days as much as it would have been when DVD was launched. I think with downloading near to HD is satisfactory. The inconvenience is also measurable incomparison to downloads!

[ibook4113]

The Apple tax thing is ridiculous with the things it lists, yet you think of all the rubbish that is pre installed on a PC that are just trials!!! Microsoft office student edition $140, are you kidding me and the professional edition is $425?

Yep I agree too.

To an extent i understood XP Home and Pro, but Vista has 7 verisons, 7!!! and Office has two.

That is Taxing, why should i pay money for a product, and then be told, "Oh by the way, you only get half of what the other one does". That is wrong!

Mac: Leopard (one version), iLife (1 version), iWork (1 Version). And I know the pro applications come in pairs from Mac, But! The Equivalents don't exist to compare, Office wouldn 't be considered a 'Pro' set of Applications.

OS MS have 7 and Mac 1
Office MS have 2 and Mac 1

[inkswamp]

I still don't get the strategy here. Microsoft wants us to see people who clearly don't know what they're shopping for beyond the price and features level (with absolutely no concern about deeper issues like quality or software) decide to a buy a PC. And as if to emphasize it, they show these people actively rejecting the Macs. It just strikes me as a weird move, like Microsoft is trying to pull off a clever back-handed insult but keep whacking themselves in the face on accident.

And you know, I'd like to know what version of Vista is on these "bargain" PCs these people are walking about the door with. Are they factoring in the not-inexpensive upgrade to a version that's actually useful?

[ibosie]

And the awfully scripted line of "Maybe we'd rather buy PC" that the little boy mumbled out should have been re-shot to make him look less disappointed.



So true, his mum seems more excited at the prospect of spending less money, naturally!



As for Blu-Ray, I don't want nor need it in my Mac when I have a dedicated player hooked up to my HD projector. That's just me though.

Snap. I don't want laptops getting heavier; actually just remove the disc thing altogether. I'm more than happy with my HD projector set up, it also takes up far less space than a TV yet the screen is much larger!

[Journojulz]

I think it's because Sony use the same development tools as Apple (maybe they work on Macs which would be very ironic).

When Apple bought a Cray to help them simulate a new desktop - they told them that was funny - they were using an apple to simulate the Cray 3! :D

[wesrk]

I have a question that a couple of my friends raised. Does Microsoft pay royalties to Apple, Sony, HP, and all the other brands featured in these ads? I have no idea how it works, so that's why I'm asking.

[crossifixio]

Win through your Actions, Never through Argument!

It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

Love the laws of power ^^

Why is Microsoft trying so hard to knock Apple down and at the same time saying that they are not worried about Apple :confused:

[jgbhardy]

Cool ad

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

[insular]

"that's too expensive"

what's wrong, didn't soccer mommy land a rich enough husband? these ads are stupid

[mosx]

Say what? 3% are you nuts? Apple has never been below 5 and currently they are at something like 9.7%.

Oh really? 3.4% worldwide and 7.2% US.

Apple on the other hand is doing great and in a world where people are choosing notebooks over dektops more and more Macbook is the highest selling notebook computer on US campuses. Guess what? % years from now those students are not going to be students any more and 10 years down the road most of them would actually have families and most likely the family computer will be a Mac too. So sure MS has a lot to fear. Only they kinda missed the target group for their ads so far.

Like I said in another thread, after those college students are finished with college and they have their liberal arts degrees and they're working at McDonalds and finally paying for their own life, let's see what computer they buy.

Oh and dude there is no way that you've been using windows for 2 decades because Windows hasn't been around for that long

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows Windows was released in 1985. And I said "almost" two decades. I've been using it since Windows 3.0.

Also get your facts straight about the displays. There are countless review that cannot find a better display than the ones Apple sells.

What reviews? CNET reviews? They're the 3 Stooges of technology sites.

Let's see.. 2ms response time, 50,000:1 contrast ratio, HDMI, 24" 16x9 display rather than out of proportion 16x10, and not so glossy you get a headache just looking at it. Hmmm.

The Xbox 360 was the slowest in catching on to what was needed to be HD, and was behind from launch. At E3 2005 Peter Moore said that the 'blueprint' set aside by Microsoft was that every game should be in 720p HD. 1080p was never mentioned, despite the PS3's looming shadow consisting of true HD 1080p.

And how many PS3 games run at 1080p? On top of that, how many PS3 games actually run at 720p? The PS3 has more games that run at 640p than any other system. GTA4, the biggest game of last year, ran at 640p compared to the Xbox360s 720p. With the exception of GT5, which has cardboard cutout environments, PS3 games that claim 1080p only run at 720p or 640p upscaled to 1080p.

The 360 itself shipped with component only, not HDMI ... a major flaw recognised and bemoaned by the industry. It was only capable of 720p and Microsoft themselves said 1080p was "not required" until Sony hit back with their claim that "the Next Generation will start when we enter the market with true High Definition".

Yeah and look how well Sony is doing. Their system has the lowest average resolution, they're in a very distant third place, and their system isn't even half as capable as they claimed it was. 1080p is a pipe dream for their games unless they have cardboard cutout enivronments like GT5.

Microsoft then updated the 360 with a firmware patch to allow 1080p through VGA and then again through Component. They then denied the need for HDMI only to develop a new chipset (Falcon) with HDMI included and out the box 1080p support.

And what happened to the multiple ethernet ports on the PS3? Dual HDMI ports? support for dual displays at 1080p? And what happened to Sony's commitment to backwards compatibility? One year they say "Playstation will live in forever through backwards compatibility" and that backwards compatibility is "paramount to the strategy". Then a year later backwards compatibility was gone. What happened to SACD support? The important card readers and multiple USB ports? Yeah exactly. Microsoft has actually ADDED to the Xbox360 both in hardware and software features, while Sony has done nothing but take away feature after feature after feature.

And then there's the lack of a next generation disc format, something the Microsoft fans have been spouting when comparing Mac's to PC's. The PlayStation 3 was Sony's Blu-Ray trojan horse and it worked. The PlayStation 3 is THE Next Generation platform in that it comes with Blu-Ray, 1080p, HDMI, and connectivity out the box.

Blu-ray is great for movies. But for games? Sorry but the PS3 has worse loading times than the old Sega CD. And so far blu-ray has offered NO advantage for games. If you actually keep up on the industry as you claim, you'd know that PS3 blu-ray games are mostly filled with dummy files.

PS3 isn't even capable of rendering games at 1080p at a reasonable framerate, unless its cardboard cutouts like GT5's environments. The PS3 can't even keep a steady framerate at 640p, like GTA4. The PS3 is a joke.

4GO ram, but DDR2, all Apple laptops run faster DDR3.

Theres a lot of PCs that do use DDR3.

Vista 64 bits? Is that system that runs poorly 32 bits applications, does not run 32 bits drivers, and has therefore poor compatibility?

First of all, 32-bit apps run just fine in Vista 64. With drivers, you'd be hard pressed to find a device that does NOT have Vista 64 support. Even my 5 year old PCI TV tuner has Vista 64 drivers.

Dedicated card, you get that right, though with a macbook pro you get two GPU chips, dedicated and integrated.

Which don't run in hybrid SLI like they do on proper Windows machines. You can only run one or the other.

Blu-ray? Isn't it that crap which slows down Vista as the OS has too guaranty proper reading of protected content? Or is that crap that no one buys for their living room? While Sony is pushing for Blu-ray, Apple is building a totally new over the air media entertainment system. Guess which one will be chosen by customers.

Yeah, guess which one customers are choosing? Right now, blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did. If you compare DVD at 2.5-3 years old to blu-ray, you'll find that blu-ray has TWICE the marketshare of DVD at that same point in time. Which translates into faster growth than ANY consumer video format ever. Meanwhile, the Apple TV is failing and doesn't even have a fraction of the marketshare that blu-ray does.

Don't even begin to compare quality. iTunes HD is at 720p, 4.5Mbps. Blu-ray is 1080p at up to 45Mbps. There is NO comparison. None.

Magnesium alloy cage? And what, that's still way inferior to what Apple can do with its unibody aluminum design.

UniBody MacBook owner here. It is NOT built as well as my plastic HP.

-6.4 pounds light? You call this light? Then now, it is confirmed, you are a troll. First of all the sony laptop weights 6.4-7.0 pounds, usually more to 7.0. A Macbook pro 15 inch weights 5.5 pounds. The sony is closer to the Macbook pro 17 inch (6.6), though the MacBook pro 17 is way better in features.

The MacBook Pro is better in features than the system in this ad? I don't think so. No blu-ray, no HDMI, no card readers, OS X, worse build quality, etc.

You get a display port connector. Sony use VGA (yes most pc has still VGA can you believe that) and HDMI, the connector that is going no where in the computer space.

- You get digital audio.

HDMI is going nowhere? Is that why nearly every Windows notebook PC that isn't a netbook has HDMI? Is that why every good display out there includes HDMI?

Also, you get digital audio out over HDMI. Uncompressed multi-channel PCM ;)

- You get a LED display.

Which is entirely overrated.

Blu-ray has such a small market share at the amount, people just can't afford to spend the extra money on something they can hardly see the difference in quality.
So why is Microsoft who are trying to convince people to buy something that they say is cheaper and cost effective, when blu-ray really isn't a selling point for someone with a tight budget.

Such a small marketshare? Again, Blu-ray has twice the marketshare as DVD did at the same point in its life. Blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did.

Can't tell the difference? Spoken like someone who has never seen a blu-ray movie. The difference between blu-ray and DVD is greater than the difference between VHS and DVD.

Blu-ray movies have also come down in price. They cost no more now than DVDs did at the same point in their life. Same for the players. A good player can be had for around $250 now, same as DVDs at the same point in its life.

[Saxguy87]

I feel bad that Microsoft can't figure out a way of advertising their software, that they have to resort to petty and fruitless hardware and price comparisons. I also love the completely sponsored report on the 'Apple Tax' (And you wonder why the Cigarrette Companies still publish reports saying Cigarrettes don't cause cancer?). To be completely honest, there is always somebody who can offer the 'same' product for far less than another company, but price is only a facet of what Americans SHOULD regard as a bargain. A real bargain comes from a product that is incredibly useful to you, works for you, works as expected, is easy to learn how to operate, does what you want it to do, is easy to service/update and comes at an affordable price. Now, if that's a Mac to you, buy Mac, if that's a PC to you, buy PC. It's that easy. Now, granted, you can probably find several computers with 'similar' hardware to a Mac for far less, but I feel the margin gets drastically more narrow when you compare a computer with 'the same' hardware as a Mac. Even narrower when you compare a computer with 'the same' software as a Mac... think about that one for a bit. If what you want is a Mac, buy a Mac, if you love PCs, buy PCs. Don't let hardware price comparisons affect your decision. Look at the software and ask yourself, "What do I want to do/get done with this comptuer?" If that doesn't find an answer, you need more information on both brands.

[Christopher8258]

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

I do like that ad.

[djellison]

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

That Ad is rammed so damn hard full of irony it's painful.

You become an apple user - you have to conform to the Apple way of doing things, it doesn't unleash you in some way. My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

[offwidafairies]

"that's too expensive"

what's wrong, didn't soccer mommy land a rich enough husband? these ads are stupid

there is no need for that...
i think these ads are smart - apple is too expensive

[jgbhardy]

c'mon guys, computers are tools! not a religion :cool:
Do you not realise where you are? :apple: = God :p:rolleyes:

[walnuts]

You know, ads like this get me worried. I don't care that I might pay a little more for macs. I don't care if Microsoft skews the fact in their ads; I'm not sure that Apple's ads were perfectly honest either.

It does concern me that MS has a one trump card- an ad that would force even me to go back to windows. They wouldn't have to spend a dime on it- Steve Balmer could say it at his dinner table and it would be enough press coverage. If they stopped shipping office for mac- I'd be done. As much as I love my mac stuff, if I can't edit work documents and be 99.5% sure that there will be no compatibility issues with my colleagues (and even the current office version for mac has destroyed a work file or two), then the party is over for me.

Is anyone else concerned about this? It seems to me that this is the first time in years that Microsoft has actually turned to attack apple back. What is to stop them from shipping office for mac? I'm not so sure its all that profitable for them- isn't the Mac BU one of the smallest departments at Microsoft already?

[Journojulz]

I have a question that a couple of my friends raised. Does Microsoft pay royalties to Apple, Sony, HP, and all the other brands featured in these ads? I have no idea how it works, so that's why I'm asking.

Legally you are allowed to name other products in advertising.

What is more interesting possibility - is are the hardware manufcturers contributing to the cost?

You would usually expect them to chip in, unless........

....unless MS is doing this to make up to sony et al for all poor experiences laptop users have been having with Vista.

You can imagine the hardware manufacturers are pretty miffed that their shiny hotrods have to be delivered with wonky tyres.

Make sense?

[kwfl]

it is not fair microsoft.

We mac users dont need a bluray drive, do we? :rolleyes:

[mj6252]

Once again MS have put more money into advertising than fixing Vista.

I agree. Jerry Seinfield (did I spell it right? people seem to be too uptight with spelling and grammar here), the "I'm a PC" (which is so original, just replace "Mac" with "PC", the kids, and now theses series.

Tons of money spent, but then again, MSFT can fund it, why not. Whatever works for them

[gctwnl]

Quoting from the CNN Money.com article, Is the Apple press falling into Microsoft’s trap? (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/04/05/is-the-apple-press-falling-into-microsofts-trap/):
Indeed. The apps are factually misleading in many ways but that is not the point. Just as Coke marketing (very successful world wide) is not about the drink at all but about image and style.

There are various underlying messages here and they are well crafted and highly effective. It is their effectiveness that makes many people on lists like these angry. We only laughed about the ineffectiveness of the Seinfeld ads. But this is very smart advertizing. Apple is being portrayed as not for normal people but only for elitist types. That is what the positive remarks about Apple in the ads (sexy, cool, etc.) are intended to reinforce. I think all this talk about price and apple tax might just be a means to a more subtle and effective psychological end.

Psychologically, this add campaign is brilliant. Apple cannot answer with their OS or machines being superior (this only reinforces Microsofts underlying message). They cannot answer this with more 'cool' people as this only reinforces Microsoft's message. I repeat, this is a very cunning attack by Microsoft.

If I were Apple I would (also) create a lot of advertisements with 'normal people' (definitely not cool). Think grandma & grandpa video-chatting with grandchildren and sending e-mail, think stressing the 'OS that does not get in the way' qualities of Mac OS X, think 'Time Machine to the rescue' when a school assignment is due. None of these suggestions may be any good, but Apple marketing needs to be very psychologically savvy to counter this Microsoft line of attack.

Apple could also attack Microsoft's vapourware history (a valid line of attack could be the underlying message "you cannot trust Microsoft"). Trust, I think, could also be a good psychological line of attack for Apple.

Maybe Apple could do one more "I'm a PC, Im a Mac" and have the PC (the 'normal, not-cool type', switch. "I'm a Mac, I'm a Mac". Maybe not :-)

[InkMaster]

...with absolutely no concern about deeper issues like quality or software...

And that is exactly what I find absolutely hilarious about the whole thing. They're just going outta their way to not even mention that the "PCs" that are being bought are running Windows. Hell, they're trying to even avoid showing the screens of the computers for too long :p

[BongoBanger]

I don't find these commercials to be anything special, but I think they're quite similar to Apple's Mac vs. PC commercials - aimed at the most visible flaws of their competitor. In MS's case, it's Vista problems, in Apple's it's the lack of choice and higher prices.

I think both of these are pretty obvious facts and it seems unfair to me that many people here are saying Microsoft is pathetic for manipulating the facts and practically lying to the customers, but at the same time these people laugh at the Mac vs. PC ads.

Face it - both have some truth behind them and both do some marketing tricks/manipulation.

QFT.

I don't understand the hypocrisy of some people who laud Apple for their 'Fix Vista' advert - released about 6 months after Vista was actually fixed with SP1 - and then rant and rave about this series of adverts.

What goes around comes around I guess.

[Journojulz]

My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

Struggling to think of examples what kind of 'creative moments' you are talking about?

photography? creative writing? music? graphic design?

as an example - Since i went mac i have transferred a lot more tunes from brain to bytes - because the machine fires up quicker an doesn't play an annoying tune that disrupts the notes.....

What am I missing?

[Christopher8258]

Struggling to think of examples what kind of 'creative moments' you are talking about?

photography? creative writing? music? graphic design?

as an example - Since i went mac i have transferred a lot more tunes from brain to bytes - because the machine fires up quicker an doesn't play an annoying tune that disrupts the notes.....

What am I missing?

About 1800 bucks out of your wallet.

[fewture]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they are overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced (or a lot more)

[gloubibou]

Wow! Read the bogus paper. Ok for the first 2 pages. Then we approach silly. Downhill from there until mesmerizingly stupid. Just wow!

So the Apple tax comes from the fact that the user buys software (Office, Quicken), orders services (MobileMe) and buys upgrades (iLife) whereas he could have spent 5 years playing solitaire on a PC devoid of any software other than the bundled Notepad, Wordpad, Solitaire and Minesweeper.

:apple: Apple Tax; noun - Ignoring the fact that your Mac came with software, you keep buying additional software and subscriptions. And upgrades!

[InkMaster]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they still overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced

Agreed. But its not even a matter of price as the whole idea of an "Apple tax". I'm not saying that there isn't one, but you don't see anyone bitching and moaning about the BMW or Mercedes tax. And don't tell me that BMWs and Mercedes are higher quality, they're not, its all same crap and a typical BMW breaks more often then a base model VW Rabbit.

[WeegieMac]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they are overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced (or a lot more)

I think Apple fans are more "uncomfortable" by the nature in which we're being dictated to on here more than we are with the content of Microsoft's adverts.

I too acknowledge that Macs cost more, but not to the extent of Microsoft's ridiculous Apple Tax PDF.

[grahamtearne]

For users like us you are correct, we buy for OS X. For the target audience of these adverts - the casual computer user or the already passionate Windows users then no they are hitting the nail on the head.

Why talk about an OS when most computer users have no idea what that is, they want speed and value for money. More savvy users already know about OS X and have their own mind made up on it or will test it out if they are intrigued. MS are using the value card right now and that appeals to me people than talking about an Operating system ever could.

I completely fail to understand comparison on a feature-for-feature basis. Who cares if there is a slightly bigger hard-drive or more RAM for your buck - the fundamental difference is that an Apple computer WILL RUN OSX out of the box.

That should always the determining factor - the OS difference is a billion times more significant than any hardware difference, a fact that is not addressed in these ads.

//jasper

[Anuba]

Psychologically, this add campaign is brilliant. Apple cannot answer with their OS or machines being superior (this only reinforces Microsofts underlying message). They cannot answer this with more 'cool' people as this only reinforces Microsoft's message. I repeat, this is a very cunning attack by Microsoft.
Yup. And it's a two pronged attack, not just on Apple's products but also on their ads, specifically the Get a Mac ads. After Microsoft's "I'm a PC... so?" ads (they ran those between the Seinfeld ones and the laptop hunter ones), there have been no new Hodgman/Long ads. Not a single one in 2009. The concept has been pretty much neutralized and it will be very hard to do another one without reinforcing the "not cool enough" factor and coming off as jerks.

[politickle]

My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

I think most creative professionals would disagree with you on that. It is Apple that offers us creative professionals the freedom.

I've never met anybody in the industry that has said anything different.

[gctwnl]

You know, ads like this get me worried. I don't care that I might pay a little more for macs. I don't care if Microsoft skews the fact in their ads; I'm not sure that Apple's ads were perfectly honest either.

It does concern me that MS has a one trump card- an ad that would force even me to go back to windows. They wouldn't have to spend a dime on it- Steve Balmer could say it at his dinner table and it would be enough press coverage. If they stopped shipping office for mac- I'd be done. As much as I love my mac stuff, if I can't edit work documents and be 99.5% sure that there will be no compatibility issues with my colleagues (and even the current office version for mac has destroyed a work file or two), then the party is over for me.

Is anyone else concerned about this? It seems to me that this is the first time in years that Microsoft has actually turned to attack apple back. What is to stop them from shipping office for mac? I'm not so sure its all that profitable for them- isn't the Mac BU one of the smallest departments at Microsoft already?
This is indeed worrying. But Microsoft needs a competitor or it gets into legal trouble. Killing off Mac is not good in the long term. They need a competitor, but not too good a competitor. If they would use the trump card, all anti-monopoly agencies in the world would probably try to tear them apart.

But I would be surprised if this very important point would not also be already technically addressed by Apple. They may be able to run the Windows office in some sort of Windows compatibility layer. Think Wine. That would be terrifying for Microsoft, because at this point they can keep MS Office for Mac crippled. If Microsoft dropped Office for Mac, Apple would also probably immediately put all its weight behind Open Office. That is something Microsoft does not want either. Too risky.

Strategically, Microsoft wants the status quo. One limited competitor. Apple is getting a bit too successful, I think, in the eyes of Microsoft.

G

[ciociosan]

Well at least this time they went with a well-designed PC. If I were to buy a PC (which I won't), I'd go for a Vaio. Defo.

[Greenbook]

You only need to hit escape :)

Actually it depends. If in the safari search field for instance, you will need to press option too.

[Journojulz]

About 1800 bucks out of your wallet.

Every time i have bought a pc it has cost me about £1,000

When my pc was last due for replacement I got an imac for £1,000.

I had been using a g4 at work ad and realised they were easier to work on - less mouse clicks, smoother interface, more logical workflow.

At my new work - we use £700 dell laptops, but because I wanted to do more design and video work - i got them to buy a £700 macbook.

[InkMaster]

I think most creative professionals would disagree with you on that. It is Apple that offers us creative professionals the freedom.

I've never met anybody in the industry that has said anything different.

I think most "creative professionals" are full of ****. If your work is dependent on the logo on the back of your machine, then you're as creative as a brick. I can deliver quality work no matter what platform I'm using.

[talkingfuture]

When you see the slogan at the end: "Windows - Life without walls"

Does anyone else think that you can't have windows without having walls in which to put them? Its a very contradictory statement, a bit like trying to sell your product because its cheap and not cool.

They should be selling Windows on its ubiquity and whatever else they think are its strongest parts.

[daneoni]

What did you like about it?

It points out 2 Apple flaws:

Apple Tax, a very important point. Prices should be going down not up in this economy

Lack of Blu-Ray, less important but would be nice in a high end (or at least priced that way) machine

Then the humor. I found the pink laptop scene funny, the face she made when she got the money and the last scene where the mom points out she isn't 11. Just seemed like a funny ad overall

Are the ads telling the whole story? No but neither were Apple's ads so its fair game in my opinion. Each competitor brings out the visible flaws of the other and hides theirs...thats the way it works. For MS its the OS, for Apple its the hardware & premium pricing

For those saying MS should focus on making Vista better, well aren't they doing that in Windows 7?. Also Vista isn't that bad, it was at launch but its better now with updates. My brother has been using Vista for over 18 months and has no complaints.

Apple isn't the Utopia of software either. Leopard wasn't exactly perfect either at launch nor was the iPhone 2.0 OS.

In the end both companies' criticisms are good for consumers because it forces them to take some kind of action. All the criticism of Vista has led to a pretty good service pack & Windows 7. All the criticism of the lack in iPhone features has led to iPhone 3.0

Both results are good for consumers

[Journojulz]

F
Why talk about an OS when most computer users have no idea what that is, they want speed and value for money.

True. That is the biggest shame in computing world isn't it?

The only time you really look at the machine is when you are waiting for the OS to do its job.

If people were brought up without a religion until they were 16, and then asked to choose - I would see a lot of empty churches.

Saving 20% on a machine you are going to spend 400+ hours of your year plugged into sound a strange economy.

Would you pay a bit extra for a more comfortable chair if you knew you would feel the benefits every day?

[djgamble]

It points out 2 Apple flaws:

Apple Tax, a very important point. Prices should be going down not up in this economy

Okay but the prices did just go down.

To be honest I think the "tax" thingy is a myth nowadays. I think if you get the same hardware and put it next to the Mac (rather than finding cheaper components...etc) then you'll find the Mac is cheaper in many cases.

[Diaresi]

I love these ads if only for how they get fanboys worked up so comically :D

Apple took cheap, barely accurate shots at Microsoft with the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads. Now Microsoft is firing back with at least an accurate set of adverts. Not the entire story for sure, but it is certainly a fair point.

Sucks to be on the receiving end doesn't it (aimed at all the fanboys/people who laughed at Apple's ads)? :p

[Journojulz]

If your work is dependent on the logo on the back of your machine, then you're as creative as a brick. I can deliver quality work no matter what platform I'm using.

While that is true - I am reminded of chris rock on single parenting.
"Yes you can do it - you can also drive with your feet, that doesn't mean it should be done."

I got my first taste of macs editing a magazine - it was the little things I noticed that made the creative process more productive and less annoying.

Take the soapbar shaped mighty mouse and the little ball. These are the little details that mac does so well.

And its the little things that help keep you free from those annoying distractions that make your focus wander.

-----

And these ads are funny. It like coke hingeing its advertising on the idea that 'pizza hut is more expensive than burger king'. :D

[politickle]

I think most "creative professionals" are full of ****.

Good for you.

I can deliver quality work no matter what platform I'm using.

So can I, what is your point?

[Anuba]

I'm not saying that there isn't one, but you don't see anyone bitching and moaning about the BMW or Mercedes tax. And don't tell me that BMWs and Mercedes are higher quality, they're not, its all same crap and a typical BMW breaks more often then a base model VW Rabbit.
Mercs and Beamers aren't unbreakable, no, but the manufacturer spends a lot more money making them than they do on a Golf/Rabbit. For the Golf mk VI (recently awarded World Car of the Year) they've squeezed the production time down to 40 man-hours per car. They spend much more time building a Mercedes or BMW, partly because of all the options. Many more colors, rims and various extras to choose from, pretty much every car is a little different from the last one.

With Macs it's the other way around, they have very few models, many of them have the exact same parts (like the MB/MBP/MBA keyboard), no color options... not to mention that the components weren't exactly developed in some special lab, they're generic PC screens/CPUs/GPUs/drives. And there sure aren't any color options at all, and the BTO options are much more limited than on your average PC. Sure, laser cut aluminium is pretty advanced and costs a few dollars more than your average plastic notebook shell, but if you weigh in all factors it's possible that Macs are even cheaper to make than a lot of PCs.

That's why Apple tax is a term that gets thrown around a lot, while BMW tax isn't. BMW can point to their higher manufacturing and labor costs (German car workers cost a LOT, moreso than those GM guys even). Apple just makes Chinese PCs like everyone else, so they have nothing to show for these prices that they're just pulling out of a hat. I definitely think that some brand tax is acceptable, that's just part of the game, but theirs is just hysterical.

[Mad Mac]

- Don't compare resolution on two different size of screens, that makes little sense.
It makes perfect sense since Apple doesn't give you any choices. You can't even get 1680x1050 on the 15.4" like most other high end laptops. Just 1440x900, and with no matte option on the 15.4" and an upcharge on the 17".

- 4GO ram, but DDR2, all Apple laptops run faster DDR3.
Faster on paper. With more latency. Not really any difference in real life usage according to a fellow macrumors member here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=654277

- Vista 64 bits? Is that system that runs poorly 32 bits applications, does not run 32 bits drivers, and has therefore poor compatibility?
It's the 64-bit that can run Photoshop CS4 (64-bit, Windows only) that will smoke the OS X version. It's also the 64-bit that can run in 32-bit compatibility mode. You're just spreading FUD.

- Dedicated card, you get that right, though with a macbook pro you get two GPU chips, dedicated and integrated.
Having 2 GPUs is worthless. You have to reboot just to switch from one to the other. At least on Windows systems with 2 GPUs you just flick a switch without having to reboot. Advantage: Windows.

- Blu-ray? Isn't it that crap which slows down Vista as the OS has too guaranty proper reading of protected content? Or is that crap that no one buys for their living room? While Sony is pushing for Blu-ray, Apple is building a totally new over the air media entertainment system. Guess which one will be chosen by customers.
Crap that nobody cares about? Sure, keep saying it and maybe it'll come true. Fact is, Blu-ray is gaining ground quicker than DVD did. It is THE BEST medium to aquire THE BEST audio and video currently available to the public. All Apple's download service proves is that Apple fanboys are willing to pay for an inferior product, which falls right in line with Microsoft's commercials.

- Magnesium alloy cage? And what, that's still way inferior to what Apple can do with its unibody aluminum design.
Inferior because why? Because you think so? Magnesium can be up to 30% lighter and 50% stronger than aluminum. It's also recyclable.

-Chicklet keys? What makes you saying that it works better than mac besides your trollism.
Because unlike you, I speak from experience. Sony has more travel and better feel. Most all reviews on the Vaio have mentioned that it's one of the best keyboards they've used.

-And regarding who first introduced the Chicklet keys, that's true that Sony had some laptops some time ago with that, but why then they started to use it again once Apple started to use it?
Who cares why Sony started using it again. Doesn't change the fact that they did it before Apple.

-6.4 pounds light? You call this light? Then now, it is confirmed, you are a troll. First of all the sony laptop weights 6.4-7.0 pounds, usually more to 7.0. A Macbook pro 15 inch weights 5.5 pounds. The sony is closer to the Macbook pro 17 inch (6.6), though the MacBook pro 17 is way better in features.
If I can't compare resolutions on different size screens, why are you comapring a 16.4" laptop weight to a 15.4" laptop? And thanks for showing that the 17" MBP is heavier. And no, the 17" MBP does not have better features (no Blu-ray for starters) and costs a whopping $1500 MORE than the Sony.

And yes, 6.4 pounds should be considered light for anybody over 10 and under 90 years old.


So now, if you want to compare with a MacBook pro, you would get:

- Better OS
Subjective at best.

- A lighter computer and more compact. The sony is 1.14 - 1.46 inch thick, the MacBook pro is 0.95 inch thick. That's a significant difference.
Significant difference? That's hilarious. Significant difference is not 1/2". That's the thickness of an iPhone.

- You get backlit keyboard, light sensor for the screen, sudden motion sensor.
Backlit keyboard does nothing for me. I know how to type. Light sensor sucks. I turn it off on my MBP. Sudden motion sensor? No thanks. Looks like it's oversensitive and makes more noise than anything according to these macrumors members:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=653236

- You get a multi-touch trackpad, well better than anything available on pc.
Subjective at best. Synaptics allows for zones on Windows machines that work better than multitouch. Can you do middle click on multitouch (for opening tabs in Firefox for example) on multitouch? Nope.

- You get Firewire 800.
There's firewire on the Vaio.

- You get a display port connector. Sony use VGA (yes most pc has still VGA can you believe that) and HDMI, the connector that is going no where in the computer space.
LOL. Display port that hardly anybody uses. HDMI is found in most newer monitors. I can hook up the Vaio to an HDTV. What HDTV has a display port? HDMI going nowhere? Riiight.

- You get digital audio.
You get digital audio via HDMI on the Vaio. You can also get Dolby Surround with the Vaio.

- You get better battery life, Vista performance for battery life is awful.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13
For the money, you should.

- You get a LED display.
XBRITE-FullHD is double CCFL I believe. It's very bright. Doesn't have the power savings of LED but looks just as good if not better than the MBP.

- You get a better environmental friendly product.
Says who? Do you know how much energy is consumed to make aluminum? How much energy to machine it into shape? How environmentally toxic it is to make aluminum? Just because it's recyclable doesn't automatically make it green in the overall picture.


.

[daneoni]

Okay but the prices did just go down.

To be honest I think the "tax" thingy is a myth nowadays. I think if you get the same hardware and put it next to the Mac (rather than finding cheaper components...etc) then you'll find the Mac is cheaper in many cases.

For Americans maybe. Internationally prices have gone up...significantly and please no one blame the exchange rate because that argument simply doesn't fly

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

Very cool ad

[KerryXEX]

Have you read the "apple tax" whitepaper?

OMG... shame on MS - they're sinking deeper every day. How can they really put their name on such a paper? It's ridiculously unprofessional and tendentious - already in its language, leave alone the facts of a completely stupid and imbalanced comparison.

Check out this Roger Kay's website... looks like from 1995. Surely not done on a MAC ;-)


However to add something sensible to the discussion / comparison: it's just the same as comparing an iPhone to even the newest WinMobile devices. Comparing a spec list does not even closely say anything about the usability of the deivce. It's a completely useless comparison.

Cheers,
Kerry.

[pomus]

That Ad is rammed so damn hard full of irony it's painful.

You become an apple user - you have to conform to the Apple way of doing things, it doesn't unleash you in some way. My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

Wow, that is too funny. First of all, what do you mean by "conforming to the Apple way of doing things"? :confused:

However, I can tell you how PC's have crippled me before in the past. I have lost so many valuable files and so much valuable time using Windows. :mad: , plus, running an antivirus has brought my PC to a sluggish speed, even after I spent many hours keeping it clean and well maintained.

One time, I even had to reboot my PC after uninstalling IE, because, apparently, IE deleted an important file that made the PC tick, :eek: . Funny how these ads ignore what a pain Windows will be to consumers by focusing on Hardware. :rolleyes:

I've been nearly 2 years Windows-free, and I gotta tell ya, its like a breath of fresh air. I have been able to focus on creativity like nerver before, because, dare I say it, "It just works." :cool: And that, my friend, makes a world of a difference.:apple:

[TheWarIsNotOver]

lol, it got Blu-Rayyyyyyyyyyyy ... Well, that is true, that is something the MacBook's really lack... painful, but true. I hope Apple finally decides to integrate that in their MacBook's... They can't wait forever. But the mom says things that can be done a lot better on a MacBook and the hardware of a Windows PC is not the same as the hardware on a Mac. Vista on itself almost takes 1GB of ram.. w00t... they are misleading the people xD For games though, yeah, you can't go any other way then PC ;(

[Anuba]

I think most creative professionals would disagree with you on that. It is Apple that offers us creative professionals the freedom.
Err... us creative professionals are more worried about third party software. If we're graphics/web/print people we use Adobe's Creative Suite, if we're musicians we use ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo and various instrument and FX plugins from Native Instruments and others. Since these apps are identical on both platforms I really don't see how one offers more freedom than the other. Mac has Final Cut and Logic, other than that it's same old, same old. Unless you're talking about iLife, but I don't see what that has to do with professionals.

[Journojulz]

Yeah - that did puzzle me too.

What 'creative moments' could he be talking about?

[Evangelion]

Really, and what is a Macbook without OS X???

It's an extremely well-designed laptop that offers features and sturdyness that are simply not available in the PC-side. And it's the only laptop that can run all the major OS'es out there.

So you are one of those peop,e who think that a computer is equal to the sum of it's parts? You do realize that it's pretty darn dumb to think like that?

If your pretentious get the VW, if you follow common sense, the toyota is way more reliable then the VW. That should sum it up.

Yeah, I should get a Toyota, so I could enjoy a cramped leg every time I drive for more than 20 kilometers. I should buy a Toyota so I could enjoy the cheap interior. I should buy the Toyota so I could "enjoy" the crappy ride. But none of those matter, since the Toyota is cheaper, right? To me, it's cheaper, because it's worth less.

Yes, Toyota might be a bit more reliable (BTW, according to Consumer Reports, macs are more reliable than just about any PC's out there), but the VW is very reliable indeed. I don't know about those Mexico-built VW's you have in USA, but the models in Europe are pretty darn reliable.

And what's so "pretentious" in buying a VW? It's the most popular car-brand in Europe, and VW Golf and VW Passat are best-selling cars in their respective segments in Finland....

[Journojulz]

I really don't see how one offers more freedom than the other.

Its the little things. Comfortable mouse with 2d scrolling, keyboard with a good feel, little os flourishes like squeezing the mouse to see all screens, hot corners, less resource hungry os.

Attention to detail and good design on the little things increase your satisfaction and productivity.

I use pcs and macs side by side at home and at work.
I know which is more comfortable to use.

And if you are spending 8hrs a day working on a machine - its the little things that matter. A uncomfortable chair will diminish your work to some degree.

That is why the apple model of hardware an software is so satisfying.

If the hardware bod at sony thinks - hey - squeezing this mouse could make the windows fly apart or flicking this ball could make the screen zoom in - would microsoft redesign its os just for one of many hardware companies if other machines wouldn't do the same thing?

[Bevz]

yes, they're more expensive, but you get what you pay for in this world... I've used PC's for years then switched to mac; they've lied about the scale of the differences (what a suprise), but apple are pricier, and i would pay that "premium" every time to avoid a pathetic, toy-like, bug ridden OS like Windows Vista, this is one point M$ completely fail to grasp... Apple love computers and love software, M$ are out to make money.... That's why i buy apple whenever i can....

[Anuba]

However, I can tell you how PC's have crippled me before in the past. I have lost so many valuable files and so much valuable time using Windows.
Who are all these amateurs who keep claiming to have lost files, let alone having lost them because it's a PC?

I have backups of every damn file I've created since the early 90's, and I have lost work two times in 20 years. The first was a Cubase song I lost some time in 91 or 92, it was either on an Atari ST or a Win 3.1 PC. The file was corrupted when I saved it, that's when I learned to do incremental saves. The second time was a year and a half ago when I was on an iMac and saved Photoshop files to a server. Due to an issue with CS3 and OS 10.5.3, files saved to network shares were destroyed. But those files weren't really lost since the server does daily backups.

If you keep losing files, no matter the OS, give your backup habits a second look before you switch to another platform.

[crossifixio]

Oh really? 3.4% worldwide and 7.2% US.

Like I said in another thread, after those college students are finished with college and they have their liberal arts degrees and they're working at McDonalds and finally paying for their own life, let's see what computer they buy.

>>>Here we go with the stupid cost argument. You get what you pay for. Yes I can drive a crap car that will get me to work and eat junk food that will keep me alive but what about quality of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows Windows was released in 1985. And I said "almost" two decades. I've been using it since Windows 3.0.

>>>So many years around and they still have not learned a thing. Vista!!!

What reviews? CNET reviews? They're the 3 Stooges of technology sites.

Let's see.. 2ms response time, 50,000:1 contrast ratio, HDMI, 24" 16x9 display rather than out of proportion 16x10, and not so glossy you get a headache just looking at it. Hmmm.

>>>Just buy anti-gloss cover and get over it!

And how many PS3 games run at 1080p? On top of that, how many PS3 games actually run at 720p? The PS3 has more games that run at 640p than any other system. GTA4, the biggest game of last year, ran at 640p compared to the Xbox360s 720p. With the exception of GT5, which has cardboard cutout environments, PS3 games that claim 1080p only run at 720p or 640p upscaled to 1080p.

>>>Not true about GTA, it ran at 1080p but there was a few problems with it after 2.35 came out. List of games that run at 1080p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_full_HD_1080P_PS3_games

Yeah and look how well Sony is doing. Their system has the lowest average resolution, they're in a very distant third place, and their system isn't even half as capable as they claimed it was. 1080p is a pipe dream for their games unless they have cardboard cutout enivronments like GT5.

>>>Distant third yes but the Nintendo Wii outsold both the PS3 and Xbox anyway but for your information the PS3 sales just overtook the Wii in Japan.

And what happened to the multiple ethernet ports on the PS3? Dual HDMI ports? support for dual displays at 1080p? And what happened to Sony's commitment to backwards compatibility? One year they say "Playstation will live in forever through backwards compatibility" and that backwards compatibility is "paramount to the strategy". Then a year later backwards compatibility was gone. What happened to SACD support? The important card readers and multiple USB ports? Yeah exactly. Microsoft has actually ADDED to the Xbox360 both in hardware and software features, while Sony has done nothing but take away feature after feature after feature.

>>>Ohhh please and the HDD drive and HD movies that everyone bought!

Blu-ray is great for movies. But for games? Sorry but the PS3 has worse loading times than the old Sega CD. And so far blu-ray has offered NO advantage for games. If you actually keep up on the industry as you claim, you'd know that PS3 blu-ray games are mostly filled with dummy files.

PS3 isn't even capable of rendering games at 1080p at a reasonable framerate, unless its cardboard cutouts like GT5's environments. The PS3 can't even keep a steady framerate at 640p, like GTA4. The PS3 is a joke.

>>>:confused: Killzone 2! Metal Gear Solid! what planet are you from!!!

Theres a lot of PCs that do use DDR3.

>>>So!!

First of all, 32-bit apps run just fine in Vista 64. With drivers, you'd be hard pressed to find a device that does NOT have Vista 64 support. Even my 5 year old PCI TV tuner has Vista 64 drivers.

Which don't run in hybrid SLI like they do on proper Windows machines. You can only run one or the other.

>>>Yeah have fun looking for those drivers.

Yeah, guess which one customers are choosing? Right now, blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did. If you compare DVD at 2.5-3 years old to blu-ray, you'll find that blu-ray has TWICE the marketshare of DVD at that same point in time. Which translates into faster growth than ANY consumer video format ever. Meanwhile, the Apple TV is failing and doesn't even have a fraction of the marketshare that blu-ray does.

Don't even begin to compare quality. iTunes HD is at 720p, 4.5Mbps. Blu-ray is 1080p at up to 45Mbps. There is NO comparison. None.

>>>Yes that does matter if you play it on a large screen but on a laptop or desktop it will be fine.

UniBody MacBook owner here. It is NOT built as well as my plastic HP.

>>>LOL oh please. The precision aluminum unibody process is a testament to Apple quality build. Your plastic HP is better built than that. I pity you if you really believe that.

The MacBook Pro is better in features than the system in this ad? I don't think so. No blu-ray, no HDMI, no card readers, OS X, worse build quality, etc.

>>>No Blu-ray, so what! Why would you want to play Blu-ray on a laptop anyway. Blu-ray movies are for 42+ screens minimum. There is a card reader for MBP and if OSX is so bad why is Microsoft knocking it and then copying it! Build quality! No comment!

HDMI is going nowhere? Is that why nearly every Windows notebook PC that isn't a netbook has HDMI? Is that why every good display out there includes HDMI? Also, you get digital audio out over HDMI. Uncompressed multi-channel PCM ;)

Which is entirely overrated.

>>>I am glad you happy to wait for you screen to light up after three minutes, probably how long it takes you to log in anyway!

Such a small marketshare? Again, Blu-ray has twice the marketshare as DVD did at the same point in its life. Blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did.

Can't tell the difference? Spoken like someone who has never seen a blu-ray movie. The difference between blu-ray and DVD is greater than the difference between VHS and DVD.

Blu-ray movies have also come down in price. They cost no more now than DVDs did at the same point in their life. Same for the players. A good player can be had for around $250 now, same as DVDs at the same point in its life.

>>>And they will be coming to a mac near you soon!

[Evangelion]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they are overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper.

Sure it could be cheaper. If they removed all those nice touches from the computers, if they made them less reliable, if they used a cheaper chassis... Then they would cost about as much as PC's do. And they would look and feel exactly like PC's do.

PC-laptops usually do cost less than Macs do. But the thing is that they also look, feel and behave like cheaper computers.

[mightywarriorx]

"This is Lisa and Jackson." Two seconds in and the voiceover dude can't get his verbs right. He are making Microsoft sound stupid.

>He are making Microsoft sound stupid.

I'm not going to read the rest of this post because of that grammatical error. It makes you sound stupid.

[allmIne]

Oh yeah, because only kids like Macs...good one Microsoft :rolleyes:

Huh? I'm not sure how anybody could interpret that from the ad.
The mum said that macs are popular with kids that age. True.

And the last ad featured an adult who stated he loved how the macs looked.

:rolleyes: