Zune HD

[gan6660]

Engadget published photos of a new Zune HD. link: http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/10/is-this-the-zune-hd/

[Dagless]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.

[iMacmatician]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.How do you know how big it is? (But I agree, HD seems very high res for what I'm assuming is a handheld device.)

If it's significantly bigger, then the Apple mini-tablet can't come soon enough…

[mikeinternet]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/04/zunehd_engadget_main_1.jpg

[mikeinternet]

I really like the artwork. Wonder if it was done on a mac?

[11800506]

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p. There are a lot of devices with the HD tagline (HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia HD, etc) that don't actually have HD screens (although the Omnia HD I think has 720p video support). It likely is just a marketing thing, since I bet it has a fairly high resolution screen, just not 720p.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/10/microsoft-readying-ipod-touch-rival-zune-hd/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/04/10/203206-zunehd_big_engadget_1.jpg_425.jpg

Engadget posts (http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/10/is-this-the-zune-hd/) evidence that Microsoft is further positioning itself directly against Apple's product line. Marketing images of a so-called "Zune HD" whos an iPod touch-like media player. We present what might possibly be your first look at, yes... the Zune HD. In the gallery below, you can see images from what appears to be a forthcoming marketing campaign for Microsoft's new PMP. We don't have any word on specs right now, though we've got a sneaking suspicion this will have an HD display.Microsoft's Zune music player was originally launched (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/11/14/microsoft-zune-launched-today/) in November 2006 as a competitor to the iPod. Zune sales have not been particularly impressive and still falls well behind the iPod in marketshare.

A "Zune HD", however, would position a device head-to-head against Apple's iPod Touch which has seen tremendous sales since its introduction. Apple revealed (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/17/live-coverage-of-iphone-3-0-media-event/) that there have been 13 million iPod Touches up until December 2008. The popularity of the iPod Touch, however, is in part due to the increasing popularity of the iTunes App Store. Specifically, Apple has been aggressively marketing the iPod Touch as a gaming device. It's unclear if Microsoft's "Zune HD" would do anything more than playback movies and TV shows.

Article Link: Microsoft Readying iPod Touch Rival: Zune HD? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/10/microsoft-readying-ipod-touch-rival-zune-hd/)

[Eidorian]

1. Software for OS X
2. Don't make it screw up my song/ID3 tags.


You'll have my sale then.

[Packersfan27]

Eh, well I guess competition is always good :p

[mikeinternet]

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p. There are a lot of devices with the HD tagline (HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia HD, etc) that don't actually have HD screens (although the Omnia HD I think has 720p video support). It likely is just a marketing thing, since I bet it has a fairly high resolution screen, just not 720p.

HD is just a buzzword. I saw "HD" clear packing tape the other day.

[Jeffrosproto]

HD would be amazing. However, if Microsoft has HD, apple will in September (iPod refresh). Plus with the iPod, you get the amazing app store.

[flopticalcube]

Ain't nothin' without no App Store. Media players are soooo last year.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Damn A brushed metal silver Zune with a big screen is pretty sexy. That might be my next MP3 player. Unless Apple does something fancy with the next hard disk based iPod.

[RHutch]

I'm sure some people will buy it, but I don't expect it to take significant market share from Apple. Yes, I am making that statement without knowing any specs or anything else about it, except that it is going to be made by Microsoft.

[kinless]

Dear God let them make a brown one.

[zephead]

I don't think it really matters if it's actually 1280x720 resolution, just slap HD on something and people will buy it. Not us, of course, but Joe Schmo probably just thinks HD is wider and clearer, so that's who's gonna buy this.

It's not just Microsoft either, companies putting "HD" on something when it obviously isn't is just a pet peeve of mine.

[clmason]

It's already dead! Just bury the bloody thing!

[badcrumble]

Could be EDTV resolution (720x480). I'd love to see the iPhone and iPod Touch at EDTV res.

[macduke]

Microsoft marketing: Hey guys, let's take a buzzword from 2 years ago (HD) and slap it onto our already crappy product name (Zune) and we will have a definite hit for sure! Then we will make it look like an iPod touch, use a paint drip ad that mimics the nano ads and make millions! Genius!

I love how it took them nearly two years to catch up. I doubt they're even close to competing though. I do welcome their competition. It only makes Apple work harder at improving.

[Mackilroy]

I've already got an iPod touch and am very pleased with it, but of the two people I know who use Zunes, this should make them happy.

[=MuLti-CeLL=]

Oh snap! Looks slick!

Microsoft better get an app store in high gear.

[MacFly123]

I really like the artwork. Wonder if it was done on a mac?

Seriously haha! :p But the entire thing does have a very Apple aluminum glossy black industrial look to it now doesn't it? Can we say iMac?:rolleyes:

I don't think it will happen this June, but I hope the 4th Gen. iPhone has an HD OLED screen! :eek:

[godfreyhk]

Fake. Why would anyone wants a zune that is not brown.....

[clmason]

I do welcome their competition. It only makes Apple work harder at improving.

No it doesn't. I doubt it even evokes a yawn.

[jackblack]

Damn A brushed metal silver Zune with a big screen is pretty sexy. That might be my next MP3 player. Unless Apple does something fancy with the next hard disk based iPod.

Haha. I love this. First time I've ever heard a Zune called sexy. I guess that's proof there's something for everyone. You could wrap up a piece of dung and someone, somewhere, would buy it and love it and make it theirs.

This is dead in the water without the app store. It would probably be dead in the water with the app store.

[h.21]

I wouldn't even touch a zune for fear that I would instantly contract -insert name of horrible yet not insulting disease here-.

[gan6660]

Hopefully there will be an HD Touch in September!

[LoganT]

I would use a Zune if Microsoft made software for the Mac.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Haha. I love this. First time I've ever heard a Zune called sexy. I guess that's proof there's something for everyone. You could wrap up a piece of dung and someone, somewhere, would buy it and love it and make it theirs.

This is dead in the water without the app store. It would probably be dead in the water with the app store.

Man, you kiddies are Apple brainwashed easy. How is it not a nice looking product? Sure the brown one was ugly, but you really can't say a screen with a little silver chin is ugly. Unless of course you're saying the iMac is ugly.

[randomusername]

Oh snap! Looks slick!

Microsoft better get an app store in high gear.

App Store? Who cares about that? It's not the app store that makes the iPod Touch/iPhone so great, it's the apps in it. No major developers are going to be behind the Zune, or very few at most. There are so many apps and developers for the iPhone OS because the developers know that it's a major product and it's future products will sell well. That means their apps will sell well. But if you look at the Zune, it's a failed project whose future is looking very bleak. Very few developers will be behind a Zune app store.

And while I do like the Zunes, they can not take down the iPod Touch. They'd have to turn the Zune into a Windows Mobile device to even compete with the Touch. The iPod Touch is a PMP and a PDA. The Zune will never be that without WinMo slapped on. And that would make it's interface horrible. All I can see from this supposed Zune HD (which is probably a fake, everybody) is it playing videos, music, having photos, music sharing, and probably slap some crappy mobile web browser on it so it is more like the iPod Touch. I see this crashing and burning financially like the Zunes before it and they'll fail to take down the iPod once again.

[h.21]

App Store? Who cares about that? It's not the app store that makes the iPod Touch/iPhone so great, it's the apps in it.

That whoosh is the sound of the point going completely over your head.

Man, you kiddies are Apple brainwashed easy. How is it not a nice looking product? Sure the brown one was ugly, but you really can't say a screen with a little silver chin is ugly. Unless of course you're saying the iMac is ugly.

Big ugly black border + second unnecessary silver chin = UGLY. Deal with it.

Hopefully there will be an HD Touch in December!

Welcome to MacRumors. The iPod event has traditionally been in September.

[kbmb]

Ok seriously.....what is the benefit of HD video on a tiny device like the iPod Touch or this Zune HD?

-Kevin

[flopticalcube]

Ok seriously.....what is the benefit of HD video on a tiny device like the iPod Touch or this Zune HD?

-Kevin

To waste precious memory space...

[skottichan]

Damn A brushed metal silver Zune with a big screen is pretty sexy. That might be my next MP3 player. Unless Apple does something fancy with the next hard disk based iPod.

No offense, but I can almost guarantee the Zune HD will not be HDD based. It'll be flash based like the Touch.

[kbmb]

To waste precious memory space...

That's what I'm thinking :D

-Kevin

[Philberttheduck]

Competition is good. It looks pretty, but take out the artwork and I have a feeling this could've easily been concocted by a Mac engineer (brushed steel.. cmon). iPod Classic is cool, but if I were in the market for a HDD based PMP, I'd want to buy this Zune. But that demographic is far and away insignificant to make a difference.

Looks cool, I like the ZuneHD

[fleshman03]

Eh, well I guess competition is always good :p

What compenition?

http://images.appleinsider.com/pjc-090408-1.jpg
Link
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_near_saturation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html)



As a side note: after the one-freaking-button on my iPod Touch broke, I would actually consider this. Assuming that it is priced right...

[terryzx]

I expect that they will be able to get the app designers who’s applications were turned down by The Apple Store :rolleyes:

[Roessnakhan]

The Zune is a great device, I had one for a while and was running the marketplace on Parallels, however I'd like a native OS X client to make it a permanent player. I sold it about a month after having it, but I loved it.

[Kardashian]

I really want to see a Zune!!

I don't think its real. In the past 3 years I've lived in Australia and the UK, and holidayed in America, Singapore, New Zealand, Fiji and Israel.

I've never seen one... in any country.

[Full of Win]

I'll wait to see how finicky it is with video formats before even thinking about it.

[Michael CM1]

HD is just a buzzword. I saw "HD" clear packing tape the other day.

I have always wondered what pixel resolution HD radio is. My radios don't have displays. =)

[Kardashian]

I wouldn't even touch a zune for fear that I would instantly contract AIDS.
That really isn't funny.

What does AIDS have to do with a Zune?

Please try having more respect for such a serious issue. There could be people reading this who have or know someone sufferings from AIDS.

[seashellz]

DOA

Zoon one is on life support ie, like SONY is to Blu Ray-
spending 100s of millions more than they get back in hope the market is unsophisticated enough
to bite- massive subsidation


Wasnt it Bill Gates that said "There's a sucker born every minute"?


MS is clueless-they dont "get it"

their specialty is a poorly built OS-really more applicable to enterprise than home use-they really dont know that you cannot market "cool"
you dont act, you cant "make" it happen -its fate

APPLE being the entity it is is not TRYING to be cool; THey cannot help it if something they sell takes off like wildfire-you cannot REALLY hoist second rate stuff on the younger group, MS has guys at mid life crisis design a "hip" Zune website (a scream -do visit), based on marketing data on how to be "cool"

or worse-a 20-something corporate poodle
who overacts .....with !!SUPER!! !!WOW!! "YO-DUDE! THE ZUNE IS RAD!!!!!!!!!!"
based on marketing data of HOW TO BE COOL-you can smell it in a minute when you visit the site

-by old guys who just 'dont get it'

[HiRez]

Until they have something that can truly rival the integration you get with iTunes, iPhoto, , Mail, iCal, .Mac, and something that competes with the iTunes Store and App Store (and get developers to actually write useful applications), they aren't going to compete with the iPod/iPhone, no matter how good their hardware is. There's nothing really terribly wrong with the Zune, but without that other stuff it just doesn't work the same.

[CopyChief]

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p. There are a lot of devices with the HD tagline (HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia HD, etc) that don't actually have HD screens (although the Omnia HD I think has 720p video support). It likely is just a marketing thing, since I bet it has a fairly high resolution screen, just not 720p.

Just a marketing thing? From Microsoft? Surely you jest.

[Roessnakhan]

I'll wait to see how finicky it is with video formats before even thinking about it.

The Zune plays as many video formats as the iPod (with the inclusion of .wmv and minus .mov), so its pretty much on an equal scale. To be fair both the iPod and Zune lack in their file support compared to other players.

[Trajectory]

Oh look, another iPod Touch rip-off.

Microsoft is so quaint the way it copies Apple, then talks trash about Apple products.

[Lesser Evets]

This is freaking GROUND BREAKING!!.... for 2007.

[gan6660]

Welcome to MacRumors. The iPod event has traditionally been in September.[/QUOTE]

I meant to say september.

[andy721]

Pointless!:p

[neiltc13]

Oh look, another iPod Touch rip-off.

Microsoft is so quaint the way it copies Apple, then talks trash about Apple products.

What? Apple invented touch screen media players? :eek:

[dXTC]

It may be good...

...but will it be Crackalackin'?

http://blogs.nypost.com/tv/photos/craig_ferguson33.jpg

[xnu]

Zzzzzzune.

List this one in the Endangered Species Act.

[amac4me]

Microsoft only knows how to follow, Apple knows how to lead.

[rfrankl]

I really want to see a Zune!!

I don't think its real. In the past 3 years I've lived in Australia and the UK, and holidayed in America, Singapore, New Zealand, Fiji and Israel.

I've never seen one... in any country.

I have seen one only once, and I kid you not she was really ready to switch to an iPod.

[fleshman03]

From Gizmodo (http://i.gizmodo.com/5207488/leaked-artwork-reveals-zune-hd):
Update 2: Technologizer's sources "close to the Zune team" confirm Zune HD is the fourth-gen Zune. He says it's a little smaller than an iPod touch with "competitive" capabilities. [Engadget]


Why are they always one generation behind w/ the wanted/needed features?

[GamaFu]

That really isn't funny.

What does AIDS have to do with a Zune?

Please try having more respect for such a serious issue. There could be people reading this who have or know someone sufferings from AIDS.

Totally agree.

Make fun of Microsoft all you want,
but saying something like what h.21 said only show how immature you are.

[MarkSTi04]

I dont know why MS tries?

[neiltc13]

I dont know why MS tries?

It probably has something to do with there being money at ALL levels of a market, not just at the top. I don't understand the attitude that is paraded around here in respect of other companies' media players that if they cannot be the market leader then there is no point to them being there.

Following this logic, Apple should cease production of computers.

[oTaRu]

if the player is real good and on par with the ipod touch... then i believe there will be difficultly for apple else i dun find zune will has a chance to make the lead...

[mac88]

I wouldn't even touch a zune for fear that I would instantly contract AIDS.

I keep reading this and laughing!

[MacAndy74]

Fake. Why would anyone wants a zune that is not brown.....

I'd consider it if it was that nice brown color...

Darn, sarcasm detector just imploded :(

[mac88]

Totally agree.

Make fun of Microsoft all you want,
but saying something like what h.21 said only show how immature you are.

Lighten the hell up! When did society become so uptight and politically correct?

[iMacmatician]

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p. There are a lot of devices with the HD tagline (HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia HD, etc) that don't actually have HD screens (although the Omnia HD I think has 720p video support). It likely is just a marketing thing, since I bet it has a fairly high resolution screen, just not 720p.Gotta agree here, and I'm also thinking it'll have a very high dpi.

[rollsroyce442]

I've only ever met one person with a zune, I can't imagine that this would do any better. Microsoft should just stick with what they're good at, an OK office program and a terrible OS, nothing more (oh yea, and making more commercials)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Big ugly black border + second unnecessary silver chin = UGLY. Deal with it.
You just described nearly the entire Apple laptop line and the iMac.

No offense, but I can almost guarantee the Zune HD will not be HDD based. It'll be flash based like the Touch.

I never said it would be, but I'd rather have this Zune than the current iPod line up as I already have the nano and an iPhone. I like to diversify, I'm not saying the Zune is better than the iPod.

[roski11]

I really like the artwork. Wonder if it was done on a mac?

That was my first thought. Damn, that is some sexy artwork. They probably forked over a butt load of cash for the identity. I'm guessing it's a turner duckworth piece.

[MalibuMatt98]

Just what the world needs, more Microsoft abominations unleashed on the world. It will never be able to hold a candle to the iPod.

[thecartoonguy]

Engadget published photos of a new Zune HD. link: http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/10/is-this-the-zune-hd/

BWAAAAAA HA HA HA. This is classic!! Because the first one did so well, they are going to have one in HD. Well at least when it crashes like the first one you can see it HD. Oh Microsoft, you are always behind the times, make bloated software and god love ya you keep trying.

[dicklacara]

Put a chicklet keyboard on it, rename it the Zune/jr, and I think they have a winner:D

[GradientMac]

Wow guys, you really are brainwashed. I am a HUGE Apple fan, but the hard drive Zunes are CLEARLY better products than the hard drive iPods. The iPod nano is better than the flash Zunes, though. But the Zune interface is EXTREMELY well done. EXTREMELY. They did an awesome job with it, and the Zune pad is a clever, easy way to browse the interface. Plus, they DO look great, whether you want to deny it or not, the OLD Zune was ugly, but the new Zunes aren't. At all.

This really could be better than the iPod touch, admit it, Apple's been getting kind of boring with the iPods, the 4th generation iPod nano didn't do really anything but change the shape and colour, the rest of the additions were just there simply to make the update seem less pointless.

The iPod touch update? I mean come on, they changed the design of the *back* a TINY bit, and added a speaker, volume controls and internal Nike+iPod support. Not exactly groundbreaking.

iPod Classic? Um... they removed a size, and put 120 GB rather than 160GB in the 80GB case. Oh. Em. Jee.


This new Zune could blow the iPod touch out of the water, you never know...

And seriously, I'm not a hater, I own a Unibody MacBook, an iMac, a 4th and 2nd gen iPod nano, and an iPhone 3G and I'm buying an Airport Express soon.

But seriously, the Zunes are effing fantastic products...

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Wow guys, you really are brainwashed. I am a HUGE Apple fan, but the hard drive Zunes are CLEARLY better products than the hard drive iPods. The iPod nano is better than the flash Zunes, though. But the Zune interface is EXTREMELY well done. EXTREMELY. They did an awesome job with it, and the Zune pad is a clever, easy way to browse the interface. Plus, they DO look great, whether you want to deny it or not, the OLD Zune was ugly, but the new Zunes aren't. At all.
Agreed. Now if only it worked with OS X...

This really could be better than the iPod touch, admit it, Apple's been getting kind of boring with the iPods, the 4th generation iPod nano didn't do really anything but change the shape and colour, the rest of the additions were just there simply to make the update seem less pointless.
The nanos have little to do with this touch screen zune. Really, there is no way the zune could catch up to the iPod touch. The iPod touch has made a name for itself already, where the Zune has been sort of the whipping boy of the tech world.

I'd like to get my hands on one of these fancy pants zunes though...

[Pooshka]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.
I didn't know pigs could fly. :eek:

[slapppy]

Must be nice to be able to produce money losing products for several years. Most smart companies would have shut it down by now. Thats how M$ will win markets. Keep wasting the bucks till you finally catch up. :rolleyes:

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

DOA

Zoon one is on life support ie, like SONY is to Blu Ray-
spending 100s of millions more than they get back in hope the market is unsophisticated enough
to bite- massive subsidation


Wasnt it Bill Gates that said "There's a sucker born every minute"?


MS is clueless-they dont "get it"

their specialty is a poorly built OS-really more applicable to enterprise than home use-they really dont know that you cannot market "cool"
you dont act, you cant "make" it happen -its fate

APPLE being the entity it is is not TRYING to be cool; THey cannot help it if something they sell takes off like wildfire-you cannot REALLY hoist second rate stuff on the younger group, MS has guys at mid life crisis design a "hip" Zune website (a scream -do visit), based on marketing data on how to be "cool"

or worse-a 20-something corporate poodle
who overacts .....with !!SUPER!! !!WOW!! "YO-DUDE! THE ZUNE IS RAD!!!!!!!!!!"
based on marketing data of HOW TO BE COOL-you can smell it in a minute when you visit the site

-by old guys who just 'dont get it'

i love apple...but, i am not going to be confined by belief that apple is the be all of everything great. i never had any issues with any os from microsoft. in fact i can proudly say that my experiences with windows 7 has me grining in a devilish way. it will definetely make users think twice between osx and windows. i greatly prefer windows 7 over osx now.

as far is zune is concerned...the hardware and os wasn't shabby at all. i have some heavy mac users that prefer their zunes as well over an ipod.

this new zune hd looks very slick and a great improvement from microsoft in design. i love it.

who cares if apple has the app store? money can buy anything...meaning developers. all it takes is the zunes equivalent of what halo was for xbox and watch the money and users flock.

[ceezy3000]

man i wish i could run zune software on os x

[GradientMac]

Rally?

Yes, the Zunes ARE effing fantastic products, and Apple has been slacking with the iPods lately.

Stop being the reason the Apple community gets labeled with 'smug' and 'brainwashed.'

[sebimeyer]

I can see the marketing meeting so clearly: and we are obviously going to call it Zune because the Zune brand has been established so sucessfully! ;)

How about calling it Windows 7? :D

[Rivix]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.

You would be interested if Apple was making it.

[Korn!]

Yes, the Zunes ARE effing fantastic products, and Apple has been slacking with the iPods lately.

Stop being the reason the Apple community gets labeled with 'smug' and 'brainwashed.'

You going to Chesney, or what?

[vansouza]

What compenition?

http://images.appleinsider.com/pjc-090408-1.jpg
Link
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_near_saturation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html)



As a side note: after the one-freaking-button on my iPod Touch broke, I would actually consider this. Assuming that it is priced right...

That is amazing... the what are you planning to purchase in the next so many months... 100% iPod.

[iPhoneNYC]

With an App Store the Zune will have great difficulty. The whole HD thing on a tiny screen is kind of a joke, however, it's about integration with all the other screens in your life, again a weakness of the Zune mentality. But I guess the bigger question is why Microsoft is so scared of Apple...

[joueboy]

WOW this is a big transition for Zune. From handheld device to gargantuan screen wall mountable touch device. This must be a full resolution device that you can play around with your hand on your living room. Forget about the remote you get-up use you multi-gesture hand, go back to couch and enjoy your HD show. Good Luck!

[dicklacara]

Wasnt it Bill Gates that said "There's a sucker born every minute"?

No, it was P.T. Barnum... but, be not afraid-- the J. Ringling Balmer circus is coming to town!

Just be careful when walking behind the big elephants!

[NoSmokingBandit]

Big ugly black border + second unnecessary silver chin = UGLY. Deal with it.

http://images.apple.com/macbook/images/overview-hero20081014.jpg
Big ugly black border: Check.

Also, i'd like to know how you know that the silver chin on the Zune HD is useless. Have you used one yet? Have you even seen one in real life?

[Rocketman]

Earth to Microsoft.

How's that Zune product line working for you so far?

Does it come in brown?

OBTW, I hear Windows 7 is filling the vacuum caused by Vista. How much did the vacuum COST you, and what is the breakeven time and unit sales number for W7?

I ask.

Have one of the many MS guys following this thread answer those quickies please. Thanks. :D

Rocketman

[dicklacara]

WOW this is a big transition for Zune. From handheld device to gargantuan screen wall mountable touch device. This must be a full resolution device that you can play around with your hand on your living room. Forget about the remote you get-up use you multi-gesture hand, go back to couch and enjoy your HD show. Good Luck!

Nah! The artist rendering is not to scale. Actually, it is a big-assed table!

[NoSmokingBandit]

Anyone know if there are higher resolution pics from the engadget thing? I like the 80's pop feel of the art and i want one as my wallpaper.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

You would be interested if Apple was making it.

yea, hypocrites aplently...

"does anyone know if the next iPhone/iPod Touch is going to have a camera, more ram, and an hd display..."

later that day...

"word is the next zune will have an hd display..."

cue apple brainwashed mobs yelling how ludacris it is for a zune to have hd and how even more retarded to have it on that form factor.

[BVeritas]

If MS is really going to come out with this, it would be a MID running Tegra. If you look at the NVidia site you'll see that Tegra does run on the future Windows Mobile.

Now the question would be, does anyone want a large MID to carry around? On the other hand, this could be a competitor to the much discussed Apple iPad or whatever you call the possible tablet.

[TheScavenger]

HD is just a buzzword. I saw "HD" clear packing tape the other day.

I think in that case "HD" means heavy duty.

[Xavier]

man i wish i could run zune software on os x

Yup. I like to see Microsoft offer Zune software or mac like Apple has supplied iTunes. I wouldn't mind having one of these things, I kinda like the look and the HD

[space1nvaders]

Who cares what MS does anymore. It's getting ridiculous with all the announcements. Any company that can deliver a great well thought out product with plenty of support and accessories can make it today. It doesn't always have to be MS or even Apple.

I want to see real innovative products that I can actually use. My iPhone basically replaces any iPod or Zune. Problem solved. MS can you solve any other unsolved problems? How about reinventing the toaster? Remember when Bill Gates was telling everyone about his automated house? Where is my automated house?

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Earth to Microsoft.

How's that Zune product line working for you so far?

Does it come in brown?

OBTW, I hear Windows 7 is filling the vacuum caused by Vista. How much did the vacuum COST you, and what is the breakeven time and unit sales number for W7?

I ask.

Have one of the many MS guys following this thread answer those quickies please. Thanks. :D

Rocketman

Your sig says "Think Different-ly!", but you are just another sheep.

[BVeritas]

Where is my automated house?

The government just bought it.

[napabar]

Apple's usual pattern is to introduce a revolutionary device, make slight modifications on the 2nd version, and really have a major upgrade on the 3rd version. For instance, the Mac 512k was a slight revision of the 128k, adding only more RAM. Then, the Mac Plus came along with upgradable RAM, new ROM, 800k floppy, SCSI, and DIN-8 serial ports. The 2nd generation iPod was a slight modification of the original, primarily increasing storage. The 3rd generation iPod really slimmed down, went to all touch controls, and most importantly, introduced the Dock connector. The 2nd generation iPod Nano was a modest improvement on the original, mostly dealing with more color choices and and more scratch resistant housing. The 3rd generation Nano brought a bigger screen, video, 3rd party games, and redesigned interface.

I expect great things this year on both the iPhone and iPod touch, as they are coming up on the 3rd generation of their respective models. The 3.0 OS is great by itself, but I think from a hardware perspective, Apple is going to make some significant improvements.

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

HD is just a buzzword. I saw "HD" clear packing tape the other day.

It's kinda like how "2000" or "space" were buzz words not too long ago. In the 70s, it seemed everything was "spac" and in the late 80s and early 90s, every was 2000.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I want to see real innovative products that I can actually use. My iPhone basically replaces any iPod or Zune. Problem solved.

Let me give you a hypothetical:
I have 50gb of music. Being a musician, i like to carry all of my music with me at once. I have a long flight ahead and stopped by walmart to pick up two movies on blu-ray. I put them in my pc (because apple hasnt figured out blu-ray yet) and rip them to 1280x720 avi files. I would like to play these, in HD, without digging my laptop out of my carry-on. How does you iphone solve this problem? It cant even hold my music collection. This is why the zune hd (if it really is hd after all, nobody really knows) is a good idea.
You can hate it all you want just because it doesnt have an apple on it, but that doesnt make it an inferior product. Im certain that if apple annouced an ipod hd that looked exactly like the zune hd everyone here would be going on and on about how awesome it is.

[Trajectory]

Who cares what MS does anymore. It's getting ridiculous with all the announcements. Any company that can deliver a great well thought out product with plenty of support and accessories can make it today. It doesn't always have to be MS or even Apple.

I want to see real innovative products that I can actually use. My iPhone basically replaces any iPod or Zune. Problem solved. MS can you solve any other unsolved problems? How about reinventing the toaster? Remember when Bill Gates was telling everyone about his automated house? Where is my automated house?

The Apple iToast ($299):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/transparent-toaster.jpg

The Microsoft Speedy Slice® Turbo+® 3.1 ($199):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/turbofan_toaster.jpg

[napabar]

Let me give you a hypothetical:
I have 50gb of music. Being a musician, i like to carry all of my music with me at once. I have a long flight ahead and stopped by walmart to pick up two movies on blu-ray. I put them in my pc (because apple hasnt figured out blu-ray yet) and rip them to 1280x720 avi files. I would like to play these, in HD, without digging my laptop out of my carry-on. How does you iphone solve this problem? It cant even hold my music collection. This is why the zune hd (if it really is hd after all, nobody really knows) is a good idea.
You can hate it all you want just because it doesnt have an apple on it, but that doesnt make it an inferior product. Im certain that if apple annouced an ipod hd that looked exactly like the zune hd everyone here would be going on and on about how awesome it is.

Dude, where are you flying to that you'd need 50gb of music to pass the time? Romulus? Sha-Ka-Ree?

And why would you rip Blu-Ray discs at that resolution for a pocket sized device? Even VHS looks super crisp on a 2 inch screen.

[rosalindavenue]

"I'm not cool enough for a Zune"
"This is so sexy but Zunes to me are more about the asthetics than the media playing power"
"All the kids are really in to Zunes"

[RoboCop001]

Dude, where are you flying to that you'd need 50gb of music to pass the time? Romulus? Sha-Ka-Ree?

And why would you rip Blu-Ray discs at that resolution for a pocket sized device? Even VHS looks super crisp on a 2 inch screen.

Duh, he's flying to Kobol in a Viper. From Earth. And you know those Vipers, they don't have jump drives.

Well, I'm off to go find the 12 colonies and to find out what happened to the centurions and their base ship! [leaves]

[h.21]

man i wish i could run zune software on os x

It's called Parallels or VMware Fusion.

[h.21]

http://images.apple.com/macbook/images/overview-hero20081014.jpg
Big ugly black border: Check.

Also, i'd like to know how you know that the silver chin on the Zune HD is useless. Have you used one yet? Have you even seen one in real life?

You're comparing a PMP to a desktop computer. The reason the black border exists on the zune is to make the screen look bigger when it's turned off. This is deceptive and crappy design. The reason there is a black border around the iMac/24" LED Display/MacBooks is to prevent the bezel around the screen from becoming distracting. If I could have a non-glossy 30" ACD with the black border I would jump at that in a second.

Onto your other point. The silver chin is useless because it's a zune. Don't get me wrong, there could be functionality there. However, the device is functionally useless because it is UNDOUBTEDLY a piece of garbage that will be marketed towards the lowest common denominator.


I will be shocked if more than a few people waste the money necessary to acquire this device.

[PsykX]

I never knew the newest laptop lines of Apple and the iMacs were ugly :P
Well in fact I thought they were one of the sexiest... and still thinking the same lol

And on-topic : I thought the Zune was dead. Seriously... And hey, it takes so much time to design an OS that has all the iPhone OS 3.0 firmware features, that the Zune will probably do just half the things, and the SDK will be half as good. This device won't make it, it's too obvious already. If I were Microsoft, I'd stop right away to waste money on Zunes.

[i.mac]

Onto your other point. The silver chin is useless because it's a zune. Don't get me wrong, there could be functionality there. However, the device is functionally useless because it is UNDOUBTEDLY a piece of garbage that will be marketed towards the lowest common denominator.



Who else would buy the dune? Zune that is?

I do not know a single person that uses a zune.

[mac88]

A friend of mine had his car broken into last XMas. Inside that car was his iPod and his girlfriends Zune. They stole the iPod and his GPS. The thieves left the Zune.

[mrcc]

Well I will admit this. I had a zune One time. It was the best piece of software to add music, and movies. Just click and add and its on there. The itunes i had to get used to it. With zune hd. it better be a triple touch or quadruple touch screen. that touch screen better be more advanced than the ipod touch. there is no touch screen technology out there that is more advanced than apples. The reason ipod touch is so popular is of course is the app store. With out an app store. The zune hd will go down the toilet. When microsoft upgrades something. u will see big changes. when apple upgrades something. the 3g is basically the same technology is the 2g. with couple extra features. but at the same time its more advanced than the other mp3 players on the market. i currently own the ipod shuffle 4g and the ipod touch 2g and im not going back to a zune. Infact right now i own a hp laptop. but once that apple netbook comes out(depending on the price) im going to get it. the only think i dont like about apple is all there laptops are so damn expensive but then again. it lasts longer.

[dam0dred]

I'm a little bit confused by Microsoft's Zune strategy. One thing that is clear about MS is that they are not at all interested in being in second (or third, etc.) place in any business they partake in.

They've shown a willingness to shovel billions and billions into projects that they believe will eventually pay off (like the XBox) but I can't imagine that even in Ballmer's wildest dreams the Zune is really going to ever going to come close to being market leader. They sell okay, and this looks like it could be a good product and will likely sell a decent amount. But really, they haven't even put the slightest of dents in the iPod market- or mindshare.

I think it's only a matter of time before Zune hardware is abandoned and the software is put into WinMo phones, on the 360, Windows 7, etc.

[Roessnakhan]

I'm glad there are a few people in this thread that can look at the Zune objectively (albeit only 2-3 users).

All the people saying "Why bother, Microsoft?" are drinking their own brand of Kool-Aid. If that rational were applied when Apple had little market share everyone here would own Windows boxes. Zune will make a fairly well-sized dent in the market sooner than later.

Most people bashing it have probably never used one, which is a shame, because it is comparable (if not an equal) to the iPod.

[No1451]

Onto your other point. The silver chin is useless because it's a zune. Don't get me wrong, there could be functionality there. However, the device is functionally useless because it is UNDOUBTEDLY a piece of garbage that will be marketed towards the lowest common denominator.

You are the worst kind of consumer from a customers point of view but the best kind from a companies point of view. Microsoft could release a computer that cleans your house and scratches your balls and Apple would still gladly take your money cause it doesn't have a lighted apple on it.


1) We don't know specs
2) Just because it's not an iPod doesn't mean that it's for the lowest common denominator, stop being a useless elitist
3) Have you used it? Do you KNOW that it's useless? Can it play music, like it is intended to? If so it just managed it's job, while you did as well(as a mindless purchaser)


Some of you people are the sorts who give us who enjoy a few Apple products a bad name. I'm looking at YOU fanboys

[Mr. Giver '94]

barf...

[gkarris]

Meet Joe, he's looking for a mobile media player under $300.

We told him you find it, you keep it...

Joe: "I want a handheld device that's compatible with Windows and has a nice screen"

Walks into store.

"Those are all cool, screens are small. Let's check out the Apple iPods...

Wow, the iPod Touch, sexy, and it has a lot of Apps. But, I don't want to pay for the brand, I want to pay for the screen...

What is this? A Zune HD? HIGH-DEFINITION SCREEN? UNDER $300! I'M GETTING IT!"

(gets handed $300 and jumps for joy...)

Congratulations, Joe, it's a Zune...

"I'm Joe, and I've got a Zune HD!"

[IchBinMatt]

The human eye cannot tell the difference between standard and 720p on a small screen such as the iPod touch. Same reason people get laughed at for buying 1080i-p tv's that are under 42in. The eye cannot distinguish the difference until the pixels get to cover a LARGER distance.

If you really are converting blueray movies to your iPod to watch and you want it in HD, then you sir are missing a HUGE concept.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Dude, where are you flying to that you'd need 50gb of music to pass the time? Romulus? Sha-Ka-Ree?

And why would you rip Blu-Ray discs at that resolution for a pocket sized device? Even VHS looks super crisp on a 2 inch screen.

I wont be needing the 50gb at one time, but i absolutely hate not having all of my music with me. I cont stand only being able to carry part of it. A bit of ocd i suppose.
I would rip blu-rays because i dont buy dvds any more thanks to my ps3. If i am going to rip it i am only going to rip it once so i have a copy to keep on my computer as well and not several different bitrates/resolutions taking up even more space.

Im not just making **** up to be a pain, i promise.

Also, lets remember that we have no idea what size this new zune is, or if it actually even is HD.

[drakeshipway]

I don't see why Microsoft tries.. They need to give up, and just focus on what they're good at! Oh wait...

[Roessnakhan]

I don't see why Microsoft tries.. They need to give up, and just focus on what they're good at! Oh wait...

People probably said the same thing about Apple. You're going on the assumption that a company can never change.

[Sehnsucht]

FAKE!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

*realizes that it's a Zune*

*yawns*

Nevermind! :D

[Packersfan27]

Looks pretty cool, the problem with it (as with all non apple mp3 players) is that many consumers like myself already have a lots of music and stuff on itunes.

I think this is a problem a lot of people face and it is why Apple can dominate the market. iTunes controls us! :p

[twoodcc]

i just don't think the zune will sell. or the zune hd

[Sehnsucht]

Meet Joe, he's looking for a mobile media player under $300.

We told him you find it, you keep it...

Joe: "I want a handheld device that's compatible with Windows and has a nice screen"

Walks into store.

"Those are all cool, screens are small. Let's check out the Apple iPods...

Wow, the iPod Touch, sexy, and it has a lot of Apps. But, I don't want to pay for the brand, I want to pay for the screen...

What is this? A Zune HD? HIGH-DEFINITION SCREEN? UNDER $300! I'M GETTING IT!"

(gets handed $300 and jumps for joy...)

Congratulations, Joe, it's a Zune...

"I'm Joe, and I've got a Zune HD!"


I'm sure the above post is a flame-magnet already, but YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE. YOU KNOW!!! :D :D

Time to come out of the closet: I used to have an older version of one of these P.O.F.S.'s and it SUCKED. Looking back on it now, having that Zoon was akin to eating a dry, congealed Quarter Pounder that's been sitting under a heat lamp for several hours, and knowing that I could have gone across the street to Red Robin for a REAL flame-broiled burger with fried onions and jalepeños, and smoked slab bacon. :D :D

[cwwilson]

I thought MS will killing off the Zune?

Anyway, if this is real, I like it (omg!!) but without an App Store I don't see how it dents into the iPod Touch sales.


Meet Joe, he's looking for a mobile media player under $300.

We told him you find it, you keep it...

Joe: "I want a handheld device that's compatible with Windows and has a nice screen"

Walks into store.

"Those are all cool, screens are small. Let's check out the Apple iPods...

Wow, the iPod Touch, sexy, and it has a lot of Apps. But, I don't want to pay for the brand, I want to pay for the screen...

What is this? A Zune HD? HIGH-DEFINITION SCREEN? UNDER $300! I'M GETTING IT!"

(gets handed $300 and jumps for joy...)

Congratulations, Joe, it's a Zune...

"I'm Joe, and I've got a Zune HD!"

hahaha

[gkarris]

I'm sure the above post is a flame-magnet already, but YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE. YOU KNOW!!! :D :D


Yeah, I don't get this whole "flame thing"... I was just adding comic relief to the whole 3,000 post threads about yet another MS Ad about someone not in the market for an Apple product gets an MS one for free... :eek:
(good for them though, I'd love a free Sony Vaio)

Time to come out of the closet: I used to have an older version of one of these P.O.F.S.'s and it SUCKED. Looking back on it now, having that Zoon was akin to eating a dry, congealed Quarter Pounder that's been sitting under a heat lamp for several hours, and knowing that I could have gone across the street to Red Robin for a REAL flame-broiled burger with fried onions and slab bacon. :D :D

You're making me hungry... :eek:

[SydneyDev]

I really don't understand the attraction of PMP. I have an iPhone, but if it wasn't a phone I wouldn't carry it around. There are plenty of opportunities to watch TV or play games at home, it's just obsessive to carry it with you everywhere.

[skottichan]

I really don't understand the attraction of PMP. I have an iPhone, but if it wasn't a phone I wouldn't carry it around. There are plenty of opportunities to watch TV or play games at home, it's just obsessive to carry it with you everywhere.

Honestly, I'm an artist, and I like sitting on my back deck, sitting at my drawing board or laying in bed and drawing with my headphones on. A PMP is a lot more convenient in the car, than juggling CDs.

[cjm3113]

I never used a Zune, never plan on it, but the few people I know who did buy them seem to really love them.

[iSamurai]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.

Yeah but you know the HTC Touch HD isn't HD either... stupid marketing...

[Great Dave]

I really like the artwork. Wonder if it was done on a mac?

I LOL when I read this and thought how true, but then...

I remember some biggies such as Bert Monroy saying he was making a "temporary" switch to the Windows world due to PS CS4 being 64 bit only on Win PC.

[iMacoo7]

All I can say is "wow"......
Things companies do to catch up with the innovation one company has conquered the market with....*shrug*

[Wikinerd]

Damn A brushed metal silver Zune with a big screen is pretty sexy. That might be my next MP3 player. Unless Apple does something fancy with the next hard disk based iPod.

What? Did I hear someone say "hard disk based iPod"?

Those were soooo long ago..

(I do know about the classic but it's like the exception— SSD for teh win!)

[Wikinerd]

Microsoft marketing: Hey guys, let's take a buzzword from 2 years ago (HD) and slap it onto our already crappy product name (Zune) and we will have a definite hit for sure! Then we will make it look like an iPod touch, use a paint drip ad that mimics the nano ads and make millions! Genius!

I love how it took them nearly two years to catch up. I doubt they're even close to competing though. I do welcome their competition. It only makes Apple work harder at improving.

I can see their tagline:

Zune: only 2 years behind


(Well they're doing better... it used to be ~5 or ~10years/)

[Wikinerd]

Hopefully there will be an HD Touch in September!

NOOO!! NNOOO!!!

Apple--- don't follow suit and call your products HD unless they really are.

[Wikinerd]

Man, you kiddies are Apple brainwashed easy. How is it not a nice looking product? Sure the brown one was ugly, but you really can't say a screen with a little silver chin is ugly. Unless of course you're saying the iMac is ugly.

Ah, but this zune still has that brownish/orange tang to the black bezel, which also happens to be too big.... Not as good in my opinion, but definitely an improvement.

also, imho, the iMac isn't as sexy as the other products; unless Apple eliminate that space below the screen, and finish the back with aluminium.

[napabar]

Yeah, I don't get this whole "flame thing"... I was just adding comic relief to the whole 3,000 post threads about yet another MS Ad about someone not in the market for an Apple product gets an MS one for free... :eek:


Welcome to MacRumors Forums, the most negative place on earth. I don't care what the article is about, people will stamp NEGATIVE on it.

Steve Jobs cures cancer. NEGATIVE!

Apple to make $49 Netbook. NEGATIVE!

Apple makes all songs free in iTunes Store. NEGATIVE!

Then there's the usual check list of whines:

Threaten to buy a Dell. CHECK!

Threaten to buy a ZUNE. CHECK!

Criticize the critics and get accused of drinking KoolAid. CHECK!

[HLdan]

1. Software for OS X
2. Don't make it screw up my song/ID3 tags.


You'll have my sale then.

This is my exact issue with Microsoft. They purposely want to burn the Mac customers by not creating the Zune software for Macs. In this area they have a VERY small market share if any at all. They can't afford to keep it Windows only when Apple has nearly 90% market share with the iPod and iTunes. Apple can actually afford to burn the Windows customers in this area wheras MS needs the Mac customer's business.

[Wikinerd]

What? Apple invented touch screen media players? :eek:

No, but their implementation of that lead to the proliferation of these media players...

[Wikinerd]

Welcome to MacRumors Forums, the most negative place on earth. I don't care what the article is about, people will stamp NEGATIVE on it.

Steve Jobs cures cancer. NEGATIVE!

Apple to make $49 Netbook. NEGATIVE!

Apple makes all songs free in iTunes Store. NEGATIVE!

Then there's the usual check list of whines:

Threaten to buy a Dell. CHECK!

Threaten to buy a ZUNE. CHECK!

Criticize the critics and get accused of drinking KoolAid. CHECK!

I don't understand. How can a fact be negative or positive?

[Wikinerd]

It probably has something to do with there being money at ALL levels of a market, not just at the top. I don't understand the attitude that is paraded around here in respect of other companies' media players that if they cannot be the market leader then there is no point to them being there.

Following this logic, Apple should cease production of computers.

Ah, but there is a difference-- Apple is one of the leading mid/high-range notebook brand names... And you forgot the difference between an oligopoly and a monopoly; as well as the difference between having the most market share and being a market leader.

Zune, however, is heavily subsidized by Microsoft, and is there just so that 'Microsoft' gets a foothold on the market.

(Subsidized? Yes! How can they design/test/produce a player that sold *hundreds of dozens* of copies without a loss?)

[HLdan]

Welcome to MacRumors Forums, the most negative place on earth. I don't care what the article is about, people will stamp NEGATIVE on it.

Steve Jobs cures cancer. NEGATIVE!

Apple to make $49 Netbook. NEGATIVE!

Apple makes all songs free in iTunes Store. NEGATIVE!

Then there's the usual check list of whines:

Threaten to buy a Dell. CHECK!

Threaten to buy a ZUNE. CHECK!

Criticize the critics and get accused of drinking KoolAid. CHECK!

LOL, so true. Even Apple's contest today which is giving away a 17" MBP, Time Capsule, iPod Touch 32GB and a $10k iTunes gift card still got stamped with negatives. :( I thought I was the only one that got bugged by this.

[Wikinerd]

Wow guys, you really are brainwashed. I am a HUGE Apple fan, but the hard drive Zunes are CLEARLY better products than the hard drive iPods. The iPod nano is better than the flash Zunes, though. But the Zune interface is EXTREMELY well done. EXTREMELY. They did an awesome job with it, and the Zune pad is a clever, easy way to browse the interface. Plus, they DO look great, whether you want to deny it or not, the OLD Zune was ugly, but the new Zunes aren't. At all.

This really could be better than the iPod touch, admit it, Apple's been getting kind of boring with the iPods, the 4th generation iPod nano didn't do really anything but change the shape and colour, the rest of the additions were just there simply to make the update seem less pointless.

The iPod touch update? I mean come on, they changed the design of the *back* a TINY bit, and added a speaker, volume controls and internal Nike+iPod support. Not exactly groundbreaking.

iPod Classic? Um... they removed a size, and put 120 GB rather than 160GB in the 80GB case. Oh. Em. Jee.


This new Zune could blow the iPod touch out of the water, you never know...

And seriously, I'm not a hater, I own a Unibody MacBook, an iMac, a 4th and 2nd gen iPod nano, and an iPhone 3G and I'm buying an Airport Express soon.

But seriously, these Zunes are effing fantastic products...

erm....

1. these are unconfirmed rumors—they may be pictures, but the presence of photoshop really makes it easy to dispute the accuracy of it.

2. this, from it's size, would probably be running on SSD, not HDD, so it's basically a direct competitor to iPod Touch.

3. They may *look* effing fantastic, but actual use may be different- lack of good apps, incompatibilities?(based upon evidence from the old Zunes), and poor interface...

4. imho, the bezel seems a bit too big for a player that size. precious screen real estate, mate.

[fleshman03]

You just described nearly the entire Apple laptop line and the iMac.



BURN! And a good point.

[Wikinerd]

You would be interested if Apple was making it.

Well, we would be AMAZED if ANY company out there *right now* made such a thing. (720p in such a small screen..)

[Wikinerd]

http://images.apple.com/macbook/images/overview-hero20081014.jpg
Big ugly black border: Check.

Also, i'd like to know how you know that the silver chin on the Zune HD is useless. Have you used one yet? Have you even seen one in real life?

Ah, but he did say big UGLY black border, so that makes it subjective. and imho, the black is more like black-brown, which is not really appetizing in terms of looks......

[Wikinerd]

I think in that case "HD" means heavy duty.

Up next: Heavy Duty Zunes.

[Wikinerd]

The Apple iToast ($299):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/transparent-toaster.jpg

The Microsoft Speedy Slice® Turbo+® 3.1 ($199):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/turbofan_toaster.jpg

I'd like to say "great analogy", but I risk being called a fanboy;


but who cares, I'm labeled as a fanboy anyway.

Great analogy.

[DMann]

It's already dead! Just bury the bloody thing!When will they every learn...

The Apple iToast ($299):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/transparent-toaster.jpg

The Microsoft Speedy Slice® Turbo+® 3.1 ($199):

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/turbofan_toaster.jpg

F***n brilliant.

[Mintin8]

Welcome to MacRumors Forums, the most negative place on earth. I don't care what the article is about, people will stamp NEGATIVE on it.

Steve Jobs cures cancer. NEGATIVE!

Apple to make $49 Netbook. NEGATIVE!

Apple makes all songs free in iTunes Store. NEGATIVE!

Then there's the usual check list of whines:

Threaten to buy a Dell. CHECK!

Threaten to buy a ZUNE. CHECK!

Criticize the critics and get accused of drinking KoolAid. CHECK!

Tell me about it. I guess people just like to start arguments.

[Wikinerd]

I'm glad there are a few people in this thread that can look at the Zune objectively (albeit only 2-3 users).

All the people saying "Why bother, Microsoft?" are drinking their own brand of Kool-Aid. If that rational were applied when Apple had little market share everyone here would own Windows boxes. Zune will make a fairly well-sized dent in the market sooner than later.

Most people bashing it have probably never used one, which is a shame, because it is comparable (if not an equal) to the iPod.

Really? From what I see from shots of it being used shows it to have a bad user interface, clumsy usage (c'mon, clickwheel vs 4 buttons?), and uses that really "sexy" brown. That's all I need to know to convince me that the Zune won't be a worthy competitor for the next few years.

barf...

You mean that mog from spaceballs?

I wont be needing the 50gb at one time, but i absolutely hate not having all of my music with me. I cont stand only being able to carry part of it. A bit of ocd i suppose.
I would rip blu-rays because i dont buy dvds any more thanks to my ps3. If i am going to rip it i am only going to rip it once so i have a copy to keep on my computer as well and not several different bitrates/resolutions taking up even more space.

Im not just making **** up to be a pain, i promise.

Also, lets remember that we have no idea what size this new zune is, or if it actually even is HD.

Real HD on a handheld device? (assuming this is a continuation of the Zune product line...)

Ignorant consumers like yourself annoy me to no end. To make such blatant flaming with little insight on the product itself and shamelessly making a horrible attempt on piggy backing on microsoft ads to try and appear funny with little relevance is even more pathetic.

Jesus. Why are you so uptight? It's called a joke. Ha Ha Ha.

Normal people, like myself, like jokes.

[DMann]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/04/zunehd_engadget_main_1.jpg

Imitation is said to be the greatest form of flattery - but only if it is done well - so far, MS hasn't been able to achieve that. Plays movies & music; no wi-fi? Internet? Phone? Camera? GPS? Seems awfully limited.

[Wikinerd]

I'm sure the above post is a flame-magnet already, but YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE. YOU KNOW!!! :D :D

Time to come out of the closet: I used to have an older version of one of these P.O.F.S.'s and it SUCKED. Looking back on it now, having that Zoon was akin to eating a dry, congealed Quarter Pounder that's been sitting under a heat lamp for several hours, and knowing that I could have gone across the street to Red Robin for a REAL flame-broiled burger with fried onions and jalepeños, and smoked slab bacon. :D :D

Wow... You're the first one I know who actually had a Zune. Just wow..

[iJew]

Imitation is said to be the greatest form of flattery - but only if it is done well - so far, MS hasn't been able to achieve that. Plays movies & music; no wi-fi? Internet? Phone? Camera? GPS? Seems awfully limited.

I think Steve Jobs summed it up in a quote, once upon a time:
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way."

[AppleMojo]

That really isn't funny.

What does AIDS have to do with a Zune?

Please try having more respect for such a serious issue. There could be people reading this who have or know someone sufferings from AIDS.

Or people sick and tired of (RED) products and their tax dollars being wasted on this and other over-hyped diseases. It's serious, but keep it in perspective.

But to keep on topic here; The Zune is pretty much done for, but like any company, you can't just let your competition have the entire market share -- it's bad business.

[iJew]

Or people sick and tired of (RED) products and their tax dollars being wasted on this and other over-hyped diseases. It's serious, but keep it in perspective.

But to keep on topic here; The Zune is pretty much done for, but like any company, you can't just let your competition have the entire market share -- it's bad business.

Yes, lots of tax dollars and stupid red ****. Has anyone else seen those shirts? They look like crap..
Oh yeah, back to the topic:
Well, IMO, the Zune is a major flop, and this will probably be the LAST release of it.
It's like Microsoft BOB, but in a PMP form.

[DMann]

I think Steve Jobs summed it up in a quote, once upon a time:
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way."

That was a great short interview, and a wonderfully accurate quote.

Wow... You're the first one I know who actually had a Zune. Just wow..
Have 2, original and Rev 2, just for the humor of it.

Yes, lots of tax dollars and stupid red ****. Has anyone else seen those shirts? They look like crap..
Oh yeah, back to the topic:
Well, IMO, the Zune is a major flop, and this will probably be the LAST release of it.
It's like Microsoft BOB, but in a PMP form.

More like PiMP.

[AAPLaday]

I dont see why so many people are moaning about the HD tag? So it might or might not be full hd, either way its going to be higher resolution than the current iPhone or Ipod Touch and im sure it will handle more codecs than any apple player. Just like creative players do do. I loved my touch when i had it but theres always room for improvements.

[pika2000]

From the pictures, we can assume:
1. A touch screen. Capacitive? Resistive? Stylus? Multi-touch?
2. Accelerometer.

The HD obviously doesn't refer to the screen resolution. I would be surprised if it can even playback video higher than 480p resolution.

It seems Microsoft is chasing the gimmicky features, yet forget the fundamentals:
1. Zune support on OS other than Windows
2. UMS compliant
3. Support for Asian (Chinese/Japanese) characters. It's laughable that Microsoft didn't support this on the Zune. Are they trying to say that music only exist in countries with latin alphabets?

Imo, this Zune HD is just a stop gap to appease the current Zune customers before MS axe the Zune hardware and put the Zune software in Windows Mobile.

[DMann]

From the pictures, we can assume:
1. A touch screen. Capacitive? Resistive? Stylus? Multi-touch?
2. Accelerometer.

The HD obviously doesn't refer to the screen resolution. I would be surprised if it can even playback video higher than 480p resolution.

It seems Microsoft is chasing the gimmicky features, yet forget the fundamentals:
1. Zune support on OS other than Windows
2. UMS compliant
3. Support for Asian (Chinese/Japanese) characters. It's laughable that Microsoft didn't support this on the Zune. Are they trying to say that music only exist in countries with latin alphabets?

Imo, this Zune HD is just a stop gap to appease the current Zune customers before MS axe the Zune hardware and put the Zune software in Windows Mobile.Yet another feature to bloat Windows Mobile with. Yes, you are very likely quite right.

[ditzy]

I dont see why so many people are moaning about the HD tag? So it might or might not be full hd, either way its going to be higher resolution than the current iPhone or Ipod Touch and im sure it will handle more codecs than any apple player. Just like creative players do do. I loved my touch when i had it but theres always room for improvements.

We don't know whether the zune will have a better resolution than the touch. I'm not saying it wont I'm saying we don't know.

[freddiecable]

are you not forgetting the interaction design? is it enough to just put HD to impress? it is the iPhone OS that is the big thing - firstly. :confused: i doubt MS is creating an interesting/usable interaction design.

[AAPLaday]

We don't know whether the zune will have a better resolution than the touch. I'm not saying it wont I'm saying we don't know.

No i dont know ur right but id bet it does. Or at least the current version.

[vipergts2207]

The human eye cannot tell the difference between standard and 720p on a small screen such as the iPod touch. Same reason people get laughed at for buying 1080i-p tv's that are under 42in. The eye cannot distinguish the difference until the pixels get to cover a LARGER distance.

If you really are converting blueray movies to your iPod to watch and you want it in HD, then you sir are missing a HUGE concept.

Wait a minute. Since when do people get laughed at for buying 1080p tvs under 42". I can see the difference on my 37XBR6 between 720p and 1080p being output from my PS3. Not to mention that all but very low end tv's are 1080p nowadays. For example, the Sony S-series which we sell at wal-mart are 1080p. The only 720p tvs left are the cheap POS vizios. Besides distance plays a large factor whether can distinguish or not.

I don't understand. How can a fact be negative or positive?

That seems pretty simple to me.

Today 150 innocent people will be killed. That would be a negative fact (although that's not actually a fact as I have no idea).

Yesterday everyone one in the world got $100. That on the other would be a positive fact. (That one is true though, hopefully you didn't miss the memo).

[AJ1BostonMASS]

I would use a Zune if Microsoft made software for the Mac.

You and I both. Before I got my mac I had a zune and loved it. When I bought it- I had to buy an ipod.

Still have the zune its a 30gb original. Kept just in case they ever release the program for mac.

Only thing I would change is the software for it. I hated it-when I used it. It may be different.


As for the App store.
http://www.zune.net/en-us/software/whatsnew/default.htm
They have thier marketplace on all of the zunes.
The buy from the radio idea is brilliant.

[glockenSquish]

very sad. another "we can do it too" attempt. yesteryear aesthetic and functional design. can't possibly replicate the App Store. of course there will be blind people who are convinced by things like this, that microsoft is an innovative company.

seriously, who is going to look at this and think (rationally) "wow, they've done it!" it's been done. it's a clone.

[AAPLaday]

Id be happy with improved audio quality as the ipod range is lacking in this department. Im not saying the audio quality is that bad or anything, its fine if you havent used any other player but they are some way behind the sony range. Id prefer a portable music player to offer superior sound quality as the main selling point.

[Bonte]

I would use a Zune if Microsoft made software for the Mac.

Me to if it delivers what Apple is holding back, somewhat bigger, higher resolution and nice PDF/comic book software. But i doubt it, MS promoted a device like this a few years back (origami?) but never seen it to date.

[applecultvictim]

The issue here that everyone is missing is the original tattooed zune guy, that fat f.er we all remember, are they bringing him on board the ad campaign here too? What an asset this guy was... the following pictures are not for the faint hearted...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/zune-tattoo-guy.jpg

They even flew him to redmond giving him the "star treatment":
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/21/zune-tattoo-guy-gets-microsofts-attention/

Turns out, the fatso (no offense to obese people btw) wanted to lose the tatto after a couple of years citing "a lack of progress in the device's feature set."

http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/07/zune-tattoo-guy.html

So, is the Zune guy finally happy with the update and ready to make a comeback, dressed in spandex and sporting a touch me zune tattoo? The MS world is such a treat to dwell in!!!

http://blog.wired.com/music/images/2008/07/23/zune_tattoo_1.jpg

[TennisandMusic]

You're comparing a PMP to a desktop computer. The reason the black border exists on the zune is to make the screen look bigger when it's turned off. This is deceptive and crappy design. The reason there is a black border around the iMac/24" LED Display/MacBooks is to prevent the bezel around the screen from becoming distracting. If I could have a non-glossy 30" ACD with the black border I would jump at that in a second.



Dude...

http://images.apple.com/iphone/gallery/images/iphone_hardware3_20081217.jpg

[remmelt]

Can we get some proofreading in here please? The article is full of spelling and grammatical errors and I'm not even a native speaker.

"Marketing images of a so-called "Zune HD" whos an iPod touch-like media player."

whos?

"Zune sales have not been particularly impressive and still falls well behind the iPod in marketshare."

falls?

"Apple revealed that there have been 13 million iPod Touches up until December 2008."

What? Have been what? Flushed down the toilet? Eaten by Bill Gates?

Proofread. It works.

[applecultvictim]

@remmelt

I see the errors in the article as an extension and reflection of Microsoft's incompetence, is it any wonder ALL the other articles do not suffer the same errors?:cool:

[remmelt]

That's a level of meaning I hadn't thought of. That is deep.

[haravikk]

I suspect that even Microsoft wouldn't be stupid enough to release the Zune HD with only movie-playback if they're seriously aiming at the iPod Touch market, they'll have some kind of app-store compatibility lined up, with all apps in C# requiring .NET libraries and running on nothing else :P

[applecultvictim]

hahaha, sugar coating the pill of mr bad spelling!;)

[DoubleU]

The Zune is only going to get a bigger market share if it's available outside of the USA and Canada.

[cal6n]

I dont know why MS tries?

Heh heh...

New wallpaper, thanks.

[xUKHCx]

HD? So that tiny display is 720p? Can you guys hold on a sec my pig just flew off, brb.

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p.
It could probably refer to the fact that it might output HD resolutions so you could hook it up to a TV and watch the media on that.


What compenition?

http://images.appleinsider.com/pjc-090408-1.jpg
Link
(http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_near_saturation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html)


Wrong market segment.

There have been quite a few statements saying with the app store this is dead in the water and that this device is not competition.

Microsoft recently launched an app store for windows mobile (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/mar09/03-11WMMDevelopersPR.mspx) 6.5 it is obviously going to work with those applications and that store so right there is a huge potential customer base to attract developers



The reason the black border exists on the zune is to make the screen look bigger when it's turned off.

Onto your other point. The silver chin is useless because it's a zune.

Dude...


Indeed

Looks at iPhone

Black Border: Check
Useless Silve Chin: Check

[Porco]

From the people who brought you:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166685&stc=1&d=1239449840

[Dagless]

In order to be HD it's going to either have a 720p minimum internal display or 720p output. Anything less isn't HD - it's EDTV.

It's ridiculous how people 1) want a HD display in a (max) 3.5" display, especially when these things aren't even SD yet 2) buy into such buzzwords and 2.5) use such buzzwords especially when they're used incorrectly.

Meh, it's not like I'll ever buy one. The iPhone/iPod Touch is the "hottest" MP3 player in the market. A Zune, or anything, will have to be really good and be marketed well to beat that.
Oh and to be released outside of the US.

[applecultvictim]

From the people who brought you:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166685&stc=1&d=1239449840

hey what happened your img doesn't show up?!?!?!

Btw I thought it was funny without the picture as it meant from the people who brought us sweet f.a.

[DELLsFan]

M$ sure doesn't seem to care about the millions wasted trying to market their Zunes. Competition is great for the industry, yes - but Apple and the family of iPods just can't be beat.

The problem is ... Redmond chose not to care about the iPod in 2001 - when Apple released their first music player. The software Behemoth was quite busy with Windows XP at the time. It took an obscure nerd at the company years to convince them to release their own player. The first one finally released in late 2006; while Apple was on their 5th generation of the product.

Sorry, Microsoft. It wouldn't matter this late in the game if your Zunes were the better product. They could **** gold cuff links and it still wouldn't matter. iPods are recognized, tried, true, and successful. Stick with your OS, Office, and the XBOX 360 instead of pet projects like the Zune, folks. Your shareholders will thank you for it.

:apple:

[Aqueus]

Eh, well I guess competition is always good :p

2nd that more competition - less patents on such general things

[cleanup]

Everybody stop ragging in Microsoft and stop idolizing Apple. People hated the name "iPod nano" when there were rumblings. Apple did NOT invent touch screen players, just created the first good software/UI for one. There's still plenty of room for improvement. I recall the Samsung P2 being released basically at the same time (Sep. 2007) as the iPod touch. I've owned both, and the P2 is actually a very nice player. It was actually my main MP3 player for a while, but I ended up ditching it just because I couldn't sync it with iTunes easily. So it wasn't an issue with the player but an issue with my already-established loyalty to Apple software. And the only reason I got an iPhone was because I could ditch both my phone and MP3 player (the P2) and still use iTunes. Beyond that, I don't find the iPod touch/iPhone software fantastic. It's quite good, but don't expect that Microsoft won't find something to improve upon. It's not likely they'll produce a killer product, but at the very least they're going to introduce some cool things. Just appreciate the competition and the market world we live in, because without it, you probably wouldn't have your shiny iPod or your expensive MacBook Pro. Bleh.

[Bonte]

That is amazing... the what are you planning to purchase in the next so many months... 100% iPod.

the rest is buying phones with integrated mp3 players, its clear that only ipods are cool enough to be dedicated music players.

[neiltc13]

And you should stop being a Microsoft troll.

There's no harm in praising a superior product. I actually wonder how many of you have actually used a Zune. I don't mean looked at one in a store or laughed at the brown (hey, it's not as ugly as the 3rd generation iPod nano colour lineup), I mean actually sat down and used the interface, tried the store etc.

An important consideration is that Apple has had much longer to gain its market share, and much longer to develop its products. According to Wikipedia, Microsoft has sold 3m Zunes in two years. That's a great achievement, given how saturated the market was when they entered. If Apple tried to launch iPod then they sure as hell wouldn't be sitting on the market share that they are now.

Zune did WiFi before iPod. November 2006 was when the first Zune launched with built in WiFi. It took Apple the best part of a year to copy it.

I don't see the attraction of having an App Store on your media player. I like it on my iPhone because I have a permanent data connection on there, but if you have it on a device which only has WiFi then you are severely restricted in the functionality of those applications because they will only work when you are somewhere with WiFi. I don't know about other people, but apart from my house I don't really go anywhere on a regular basis which has free WiFi. Even paid-for WiFi is not really that common.

I am surprised that no one has noted that none of the iPod/iPhone line nor the Zune lineup have ever been suited to modern video playback. The shows I watch are all recorded either in SD or HD 16:9. For this reason, I prefer to watch things on my Sony PSP, which has a 16:9 display. I hate having to watch them on my iPhone because it either puts ugly black bars at the top and bottom of the image or it crops it. Not ideal. If the Zune HD is 16:9 I can see it being very, very attractive.

[chameleon81]

I really like the artwork. Wonder if it was done on a mac?

If yes , will it make u happy?

[iMouse]

anxiously awaiting the next leap day...

<evil grin>

[chameleon81]

M$ sure doesn't seem to care about the millions wasted trying to market their Zunes. Competition is great for the industry, yes - but Apple and the family of iPods just can't be beat.

The problem is ... Redmond chose not to care about the iPod in 2001 - when Apple released their first music player. The software Behemoth was quite busy with Windows XP at the time. It took an obscure nerd at the company years to convince them to release their own player. The first one finally released in late 2006; while Apple was on their 5th generation of the product.

Sorry, Microsoft. It wouldn't matter this late in the game if your Zunes were the better product. They could **** gold cuff links and it still wouldn't matter. iPods are recognized, tried, true, and successful. Stick with your OS, Office, and the XBOX 360 instead of pet projects like the Zune, folks. Your shareholders will thank you for it.

:apple:

I aggree with you . Ms has a operating system, Office software, Business softwares ( like Ms Dynamics ), hardware, search engine, very popular messenger client, Live.com etc. I would focus on those things. From my understanding Zune was a failure . ( I never seen someone with Zune - maybe you have them in US-Canada )

I see MS's reason why they want to compete with iPod. iPod brings new customers to Apple . ( apps , music and sometimes Mac computers as well ) And if you get into the iPod + Mac trap ( this is how I call it from my experience ) you dont want to leave that convenience although you sometimes think Apple is the one of most greediest companies in the world.

If I were Ms I would support mp3 player makers to compete with Apple rather than producing my own.

[chris.stone]

Great! I need a new paper weight!!!! lol

Sorry, couldn't resist the low blow!

[Hattig]

Or people sick and tired of (RED) products and their tax dollars being wasted on this and other over-hyped diseases. It's serious, but keep it in perspective.

AIDS is over-hyped? Wow, just wow.

[*LTD*]

Too little, too late. Just like the original Zune.

[MacBoucher]

HD is just a buzzword. I saw "HD" clear packing tape the other day.

Microsoft's HD stands for Highly Defective

[Mac Head]

Everyones blah blahing about the App store :rolleyes::apple:

Watch how Microsoft come out with support for free Apps. :eek::cool:

[neiltc13]

Everyones blah blahing about the App store :rolleyes::apple:

Watch how Microsoft come out with support for free Apps. :eek::cool:

Actually, Microsoft was first to offer a development environment coupled with support and hosting for independently created applications on its Xbox console. Look up "XNA" and you'll find out about what Microsoft has done to encourage independent developers to produce video games for its machine.

Lots of features of the Community Games project are shared with Apple's iPhone App Store. XNA dates back to 2006, so it appears that it was Apple doing the following in this case.

[Winni]

I can write software for the Zune in C# and Microsoft gives away XNA Studio for free -- and does NOT ask a developer to sign an NDA.

They should start selling their stuff outside the US, though, if they really want to gain some momentum.

Just my personal two cents about the AppStore: It has become yet another reason for me NOT to buy another iSomething product from Apple anymore.

I would never have thought that I would say this about Microsoft, but after more than four years in Apple land, the Microsoft ecosystem really feels like The Free World when you compare it with the Apple world.

[archer75]

People forget that when the zune came out it had features that no ipod had, that only the iphone and touch recently got.

While the zune marketshare is low, people who have owned ipods and a zune seem to prefer the zune by a very large margin.

App store? There are been plenty of places to buy mobile apps for many years. And they don't need apples approval! handango.com is one of the most popular.

I do not own a zune, for the record. But if the accessories were there i'd have no problem buying one.

[Porco]

hey what happened your img doesn't show up?!?!?!

Btw I thought it was funny without the picture as it meant from the people who brought us sweet f.a.

hahah, yes, you have a point.

Anyway, also from the people who brought you:

http://i41.tinypic.com/34rdbv8.jpg

(sorry, it just never gets old as far as I am concerned, what were they thinking?)

[Spades]

I would never have thought that I would say this about Microsoft, but after more than four years in Apple land, the Microsoft ecosystem really feels like The Free World when you compare it with the Apple world.

That's always been the case. Microsoft support for developers is amazing. Their main problem has been creating platforms that are technically good enough that people don't immediately puke when they look at them. Windows and the original XBox are good examples of when they pull it off. Technically pretty crappy platforms, but good enough that Microsoft could get developers to write for them. And as nice as it is having a great platform underneath your apps, it's ultimately the apps that sell the platform.

There's also irony in people saying Microsoft should stick to things like the XBox. The XBox is the perfect example of what they could pull off with the Zune. The technical quality of the original XBox was laughable, but they got developers for it. So even with a crappy platform, MS plowed their way into an established market to come out as a powerful competitor.

Remember folks, it's about the apps. And the apps are all about...I'll let monkey boy say it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE). Microsoft doesn't get much right, but the one thing they get right is the only thing they need to get right.

[Popeye206]

The Zune is still out there???? Hummm.... surprising!

Can you say "App Store"? Good luck MS! Time to follow the leader again!

You'd think they come up with some original thought at some point! Oh wait... they did! HD on a 4 inch screen! Wow man! It's so small but so darn clear! LOL!

Oh... I see the commercials now... Here's $224.95... now go buy a touch based MP3 player.... oh... the Apple iPod Touch is too expensive... but I can get this slick Zune for only $219.95! LOL! "I'm cheap, that's why I'm a Zune"! LOL!

[Jacqueclaude]

Before I start, let me clarify that I am indeed a mac user, and I have numerous iPods.
I also have four PCs, and a Zune.

So I'm not biased, and I'm not a fanboy.

The fact that you people are mocking, complaining, and picking faults in a product which hasn't even been released yet - is down right preposterous.

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

They really are good competition for Apple, in the media device market. Don't give me this survey sh**. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.

I think It's bloody marvellous to see Microsoft enter the touch-screen device market, and I also think it's great that we now have even more variety of devices out there.

It makes me laugh how some of you people only buy apple products, because you have this strange obsession with anything that has their little Apple logo on it.

Don't restrict yourselves to certain products. What's wrong with trying others? Other *good* products, like Zune.

We don't need immaturity here. What's wrong with good discussion, without just plain bashing of a product? Just because this is macrumors, doesn't mean that you can't just say 'You know what, that does actually look quite good. I'd like to see this improve, I'd like to see some good features.'

Stop with the fanboy-ism. It's beyond silly, now.

[*LTD*]

You know, you mac fanboys really do make me puke in my mouth a little.

Before I start, let me clarify that I am indeed a mac user, and I have numerous iPods.
I also have four PCs, and a Zune.

So I'm not biased, and I'm not a fanboy.

The fact that you people are mocking, complaining, and picking faults in a product which hasn't even been released yet - is down right preposterous.

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

They really are good competition for Apple, in the media device market. Don't give me this survey sh**. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.

I think It's bloody marvellous to see Microsoft enter the touch-screen device market, and I also think it's great that we now have even more variety of devices out there.

It makes me laugh how some of you people only buy apple products, because you have this strange obsession with anything that has their little Apple logo on it.

Don't restrict yourselves to certain products. What's wrong with trying others? Other *good* products, like Zune.

We don't need immaturity here. What's wrong with good discussion, without just plain bashing of a product? Just because this is macrumors, doesn't mean that you can't just say 'You know what, that does actually look quite good. I'd like to see this improve, I'd like to see some good features.'

Stop with the fanboy-ism. It's beyond silly, now.

"Microsoft know what they are doing."

I LOL'd hard at that. Thanks. ;)

[Wikinerd]

I think Steve Jobs summed it up in a quote, once upon a time:
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way."

heyy... you forgot the "third-rate products" part

[NoSmokingBandit]

They really are good competition for Apple, in the media device market. Don't give me this survey sh**. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.

Im a teenager (for a few more weeks at least) and i dont want an ipod. I'd much rather have a zune for the larger screen, even if it is the same resolution as an ipod. I'd occasionally watch movies on it and having a larger screen would mean i can leave my psp at home and just carry one device. With an ipod i would carry my psp just for the bigger screen. I also do not want and ipod touch, not enough storage space.


I think It's bloody marvellous to see Microsoft enter the touch-screen device market, and I also think it's great that we now have even more variety of devices out there.

I will disagree with you here. I hate touchscreens. Its just a gimmick that grabs your attention. I like buttons. I dont even like trackpads on laptops (though the new macbook trackpad is amazing), i always grab a mouse.

[Wikinerd]

That seems pretty simple to me.

Today 150 innocent people will be killed. That would be a negative fact (although that's not actually a fact as I have no idea).

Yesterday everyone one in the world got $100. That on the other would be a positive fact. (That one is true though, hopefully you didn't miss the memo).

Facts, cannot. However, an interpretation of it can be negative or positive. The fact that you have "innocent" in that sentence already makes it objective. Innocence itself can be argued to be objective. Also, the fact that most people think that 150 innocent people will be killed is bad, some psycho might not—that's the difference between facts and interpretation.

[*LTD*]

I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.


ROFL.

Really.

[michael.lauden]

there sure is a lot of noise on this thread.

let's do a quick restart.



Zune HD ---> FAIL

[Jacqueclaude]

ROFL.

Really.

The sheer fact that I prefer Zune, is proof enough.
Myself, and a good friend of mine, both imported Zunes into the UK, because we prefer them.

Hardly unbelievable.



Zune HD ---> FAIL

Wrong. Sorry.

[NoSmokingBandit]

"Microsoft know what they are doing."

I LOL'd hard at that. Thanks. ;)

Obviously the company that owns a conservatively estimated 85% of the computer market has no idea what they are doing.

[Wikinerd]

Indeed

Looks at iPhone

Black Border: Check
Useless black Chin: Check

But the border is indeed smaller.... Much smaller relative to the screen.

also I corrected that there.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Im a teenager (for a few more weeks at least) and i dont want an ipod. I'd much rather have a zune for the larger screen, even if it is the same resolution as an ipod. I'd occasionally watch movies on it and having a larger screen would mean i can leave my psp at home and just carry one device. With an ipod i would carry my psp just for the bigger screen. I also do not want and ipod touch, not enough storage space.
You're turing twenty and you play with a PSP?
/judgement


I hate touchscreens. Its just a gimmick that grabs your attention.
It's not a gimmick if it makes the device function in a way that wasn't previously possible.
I like buttons. I dont even like trackpads on laptops (although the new macbook trackpad is amazing)

Are you attempting to make a point here? If you were you really screwed yourself over with the comment about the Macbook trackpad.

[*LTD*]

The sheer fact that I prefer Zune, is proof enough.
Myself, and a good friend of mine, both imported Zunes into the UK, because we prefer them.

Hardly unbelievable.

Can we agree on 90%?

I concede that there IS a Zune aisle at my local Best Buy, but it's gathering dust and there's tumbleweed rolling around there, with the faint sound of windchimes.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

That whoosh is the sound of the point going completely over your head.



Big ugly black border + second unnecessary silver chin = UGLY. Deal with it.



Welcome to MacRumors. The iPod event has traditionally been in September.

Can we agree on 90%?

I concede that there IS a Zune aisle at my local Best Buy, but it's gathering dust and there's tumbleweed rolling around there, with the faint sound of windchimes.

Not true. From what I hear a lot of people buy Zunes over any other MP3 player (after iPod of course)

[Jacqueclaude]

Can we agree on 90%?

I concede that there IS a Zune aisle at my local Best Buy, but it's gathering dust and there's tumbleweed rolling around there, with the faint sound of windchimes.

I totally agree, but I don't believe it's down to the product itself.

iPods have been around for lord knows how long. Let's face it, they are indeed aesthetically pleasing. That, and iTunes, is more than likely what swayed so many people in the first place, into buying them. There you have thousands of people, *used* to iPods - and it caught on from there on.

Microsoft have a bloody lot of competition, and the reason so little people have them, is purely because iPod seems to be 'the way to go', because it's so familiar.

I say, give the Zune time, and the device (and the services that will inevitably come as software), will be as popular as the Windows operating system.

[iMacoo7]

I think Steve Jobs summed it up in a quote, once upon a time:
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way."
Excellent quote!!:D

[iMacoo7]

The Zune is only going to get a bigger market share if it's available outside of the USA and Canada.

This argument is actually legit.
The reason is because the Zune will be sold at lower price points.
Most people cannot afford to pay for ipods , so They go for the so-called next best thing which for some would be the Zune.
Moreover,
I think it will appeal to those whom are Die Hard microsoft junkies....
Just like iPods,iPhones appeal to us Apple junkies....

[powers74]

Ooooh man.

[EgbertAttrick]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/990/zunetattoo1jpg.jpg

[Ted13]

This is freaking GROUND BREAKING!!.... for 2007.
Yup, Microsoft -- a dollar short and two years late.

And the HD thing -- unless it is substantially bigger, it make no sense to anyone other than a MS marketing droid thinking "our specs will beat their specs". Good luck with that.

Meanwhile the day Apple releases an iTablet, which actually will be large enough to benefit from a HD screen, the Zune will be consigned to oblivion yet again.

[Wikinerd]

There's no harm in praising a superior product. I actually wonder how many of you have actually used a Zune. I don't mean looked at one in a store or laughed at the brown (hey, it's not as ugly as the 3rd generation iPod nano colour lineup), I mean actually sat down and used the interface, tried the store etc.

I recall someone else (user: Sehnsucht) who has once owned a Zune. This is what he said:

Time to come out of the closet: I used to have an older version of one of these P.O.F.S.'s and it SUCKED. Looking back on it now, having that Zoon was akin to eating a dry, congealed Quarter Pounder that's been sitting under a heat lamp for several hours, and knowing that I could have gone across the street to Red Robin for a REAL flame-broiled burger with fried onions and jalepeños, and smoked slab bacon. :D :D

An important consideration is that Apple has had much longer to gain its market share, and much longer to develop its products. According to Wikipedia, Microsoft has sold 3m Zunes in two years. That's a great achievement, given how saturated the market was when they entered. If Apple tried to launch iPod then they sure as hell wouldn't be sitting on the market share that they are now.

and Apple sold 30 Million iPod Touch/iPhones (http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=3175&a=2) now...

Zune did WiFi before iPod. November 2006 was when the first Zune launched with built in WiFi. It took Apple the best part of a year to copy it.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/02/zune-wireless-worthless-for-now/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10034885-27.html

Need I say more?


I don't see the attraction of having an App Store on your media player. I like it on my iPhone because I have a permanent data connection on there, but if you have it on a device which only has WiFi then you are severely restricted in the functionality of those applications because they will only work when you are somewhere with WiFi. I don't know about other people, but apart from my house I don't really go anywhere on a regular basis which has free WiFi. Even paid-for WiFi is not really that common.

Well you're missing the point of using an iPhone or iPod Touch rather than using HTC's or whichever-phone-company-you-like's phones... Without the apps I'd rather just buy a normal phone.

I am surprised that no one has noted that none of the iPod/iPhone line nor the Zune lineup have ever been suited to modern video playback. The shows I watch are all recorded either in SD or HD 16:9. For this reason, I prefer to watch things on my Sony PSP, which has a 16:9 display. I hate having to watch them on my iPhone because it either puts ugly black bars at the top and bottom of the image or it crops it. Not ideal. If the Zune HD is 16:9 I can see it being very, very attractive.

Well for a pocket sized device there is only so much you can expect. I'd say that 3:2 is quite enough. (Though if apple got rid of the chin and the head we might get enough space for a 16:9 resolution.)

[BongoBanger]

I think I'll do something crazy like try it our before making stupid and prejudicial pronouncements on a message board which will make me look like an ass.

Well I would if they ever get round to selling it in the UK that is.

[Wikinerd]

--post deleted by author--

[fiercetiger224]

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

There is no doubt that MS is still the market leader in software. It seems that they're a little worried about that right now, seeing as they're running ads trying to make people lean back towards buying PCs.

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

I'm not quite sure about that. If they knew what they were doing, then the Zune would have already made some headway in the market. The fact is, is that the iPod IS an iconic image to everyone. Everyone knows how to use one, because it's got an easy to use interface. Yes, Zune has an easy to use interface too, BUT again, it's too "flashy".

More people care about a clean, easy to use interface, and that's what's kept Apple going throughout the years. UI design is the MOST important aspect of an OS. Microsoft still doesn't have UI design down. They often make it "too flashy" and "over-designed". And by over-designed, I mean they try too hard. Windows 7 is a step forward from Vista, but still not "clean".

And you'd be surprised, that a big company CAN be a knowledge-less company, especially in something that they're not good with.

They really are good competition for Apple, in the media device market. Don't give me this survey sh**. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.

Obviously, competition is good for everyone. And who said 100% of teenagers want iPods? :rolleyes:

[statik13]

Will be interesting to see if this is actually a Zune OS or if it is Windows Mobile with some sort of Zune media skin pasted on top.

[NoSmokingBandit]

You're turing twenty and you play with a PSP?
/judgement


Its something to do during breaks at work. Im also a pretty big nerd. :p

Also, i can say the trackpad on macbooks are amazing even if i dont like them. I dont care for Joe Satriani much, but i can still admit he is an amazing guitarist.

[gnipgnop]

Amazing to me that some of the Zune aficionado's that are posting in this thread will simultaneously bash Apple's domination of the MP3 player market as simply the result of brand brainwashing, then heap praise on Microsoft's domination of the PC OS market. Hypocritical at best.

As for the hypothetical Zune HD, I think it's a nice looking product that is obviously taking heavy cues from Apple's industrial design approach. The problem being that it isn't only the industrial design that sells the product. The iPod was a smash hit because of Apple's commitment to a complete product experience...they covered all the bases, while their competitors tried to compete with fragments of it (usually focusing on specs/price only).

[*LTD*]

Yup, Microsoft -- a dollar short and two years late.

And the HD thing -- unless it is substantially bigger, it make no sense to anyone other than a MS marketing droid thinking "our specs will beat their specs". Good luck with that.

Meanwhile the day Apple releases an iTablet, which actually will be large enough to benefit from a HD screen, the Zune will be consigned to oblivion yet again.

This.

[*LTD*]

Obviously the company that owns a conservatively estimated 85% of the computer market has no idea what they are doing.

Licensing.

Ubuiquity is no indication of value or quality.

[aaquib]

Meet Joe, he's looking for a mobile media player under $300.

We told him you find it, you keep it...

Joe: "I want a handheld device that's compatible with Windows and has a nice screen"

Walks into store.

"Those are all cool, screens are small. Let's check out the Apple iPods...

Wow, the iPod Touch, sexy, and it has a lot of Apps. But, I don't want to pay for the brand, I want to pay for the screen...

What is this? A Zune HD? HIGH-DEFINITION SCREEN? UNDER $300! I'M GETTING IT!"

(gets handed $300 and jumps for joy...)

Congratulations, Joe, it's a Zune...

"I'm Joe, and I've got a Zune HD!"

LOL :D

[Jacqueclaude]

There is no doubt that MS is still the market leader in software. It seems that they're a little worried about that right now, seeing as they're running ads trying to make people lean back towards buying PCs.



I'm not quite sure about that. If they knew what they were doing, then the Zune would have already made some headway in the market. The fact is, is that the iPod IS an iconic image to everyone. Everyone knows how to use one, because it's got an easy to use interface. Yes, Zune has an easy to use interface too, BUT again, it's too "flashy".

More people care about a clean, easy to use interface, and that's what's kept Apple going throughout the years. UI design is the MOST important aspect of an OS. Microsoft still doesn't have UI design down. They often make it "too flashy" and "over-designed". And by over-designed, I mean they try too hard. Windows 7 is a step forward from Vista, but still not "clean".

And you'd be surprised, that a big company CAN be a knowledge-less company, especially in something that they're not good with.



Obviously, competition is good for everyone. And who said 100% of teenagers want iPods? :rolleyes:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_near_saturation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html

I've also seen that survey referenced on these boards.


As for your comment about UI, there just seems to be no logic in that. Whether or not it's 'flashy', is down to opinion. Zune software is far from 'flashy'. It's essentially just big text, that you can scroll through...
Pretty damn easy to use to me.

I also resent your 'it's not clean' comment.
That's just plain ridiculous. Windows 7 is an outstanding OS. Easy to use, functional, great features - and it's aesthetically pleasing. By clean, I'm presuming, that you mean 'minimalist'. If it were minimalist, then it wouldn't be Windows 7, it wouldn't be the same OS. It's function differently, and a hell of a lot harder to use.

The only problem Zune has, is time. It needs time to compete against an already-huge device. It's OS is fine.

[glockenSquish]

...

Before I start, let me clarify that I am indeed a mac user, and I have numerous iPods.
I also have four PCs, and a Zune.

So I'm not biased, and I'm not a fanboy.

The fact that you people are mocking, complaining, and picking faults in a product which hasn't even been released yet - is down right preposterous.

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

...

I think It's bloody marvellous to see Microsoft enter the touch-screen device market, and I also think it's great that we now have even more variety of devices out there.

It makes me laugh how some of you people only buy apple products, because you have this strange obsession with anything that has their little Apple logo on it.

Don't restrict yourselves to certain products. What's wrong with trying others? Other *good* products, like Zune.

We don't need immaturity here. What's wrong with good discussion, without just plain bashing of a product? Just because this is macrumors, doesn't mean that you can't just say 'You know what, that does actually look quite good. I'd like to see this improve, I'd like to see some good features.'

Stop with the fanboy-ism. It's beyond silly, now.

Sure, there is some partisanism here. Are you really surprised? Coming in here and purporting unbiased and then pointing fingers isn't very helpful.

Still, I don't think that the issue of fanboyism is as relevant to negative feedback as you'd like to believe. The real seed of discussion here is whether a product like this would have ever come into existence were it not for iPods and their development. No one should have to be proved that Microsoft follows every good idea Apple brings to the table, with quarterly revelations like this one.

"Bloody marvelous" as it may be that there are other options continually springing up in Apple's shadow, the chance that true innovation will be involved with the evolution of these—including the new Zune—is unlikely. Partial regurgitation with reconstructive plastic surgery is the statistical norm. True, product details haven't been revealed, but supposing that they will try to clone iPod design and functionality (with almost-exactness as legally permitted) is an understandable assumption.

[Wikinerd]

You know, you mac fanboys really do make me puke in my mouth a little.

Before I start, let me clarify that I am indeed a mac user, and I have numerous iPods.
I also have four PCs, and a Zune.

So I'm not biased, and I'm not a fanboy.

It's called preference. The way you started this post meant that you do have one, and you're defending it; like how we do. The line between "fanboyism" and expressing one's stance on a company's product is really thin—and blurred.

The fact that you people are mocking, complaining, and picking faults in a product which hasn't even been released yet - is down right preposterous.

And how is that downright preposterous? This is a rumor. We are just expressing our opinion about what we know; what we see, and what we have seen; even though we sometimes assume we do not fabricate details. Again, we only comment on what we've seen, or what we see. Zune's history really left quite a lot of room for improvement.

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

No they're not. Not that they have ever been. They're just riding the momentum of market share that was given to them by IBM (via the IBMPC). Everything, you see, has been copied from someone else.
MS-DOS? Bought as QDOS, which was in turn an imitation of CP/M.
Windows? A face thrown onto MS-DOS to copy the GUI of the Macintosh (which the GUI was taken from PARC).
IE? Microsoft's solution to Netscape.
Word? Idea stolen from "Bravo" (word processor from PARC)
Excel? Not the first implementation either; first spreadsheet application is "Visicalc" by Dan Bricklin.
PowerPoint? Not originally developed by Microsoft either. It's initial author was Forethought Inc., which was bought by Microsoft in 1987
Xbox? Obviously an imitation of the Playstation and other consoles.
Zune? Need I say more?

The only thing that Microsoft ever made, in my opinion, was to implement a version of BASIC for the Altair 8800—even that was a copy of something else...

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

Problem being that without Bill Gates, what they are doing can be compared to a beast with it's head taken off; it can still be dangerous as it flounders about, but as long as you get out of the way you only need to wait for it to fail, fall, and die.

They really are good competition for Apple, in the media device market. Don't give me this survey sh**. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that '100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.

Competition is good. That way Apple always have an incentive to innovate.

And alright. We won't give you that survey sh** again [I]if you can prove that "'100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.".

I think It's bloody marvellous to see Microsoft enter the touch-screen device market, and I also think it's great that we now have even more variety of devices out there.

Somehow I agree with that. Microsoft needs to get up and actually work in order to survive.

It makes me laugh how some of you people only buy apple products, because you have this strange obsession with anything that has their little Apple logo on it.

Only because that logo somehow guarantees a better experience. (you can take a look at the satisfaction rate of customers if you need proof)

Don't restrict yourselves to certain products. What's wrong with trying others? Other *good* products, like Zune.

Okay. Lets assume that the "*good*" is not sarcastic. How is that a "good" product then? How does that "brown" appeal to us? How does that (not-so-well-thought-out) interface compare? (How do we know we're not sitting on another time bomb like this one if we use it? (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/30gb-zunes-kill.html))

Now let's assume if that "*good*" is sarcastic—wait, we can't; otherwise the sentence won't make sense.

We don't need immaturity here. What's wrong with good discussion, without just plain bashing of a product? Just because this is macrumors, doesn't mean that you can't just say 'You know what, that does actually look quite good. I'd like to see this improve, I'd like to see some good features.'

I like how you say bashing others and other things as bad while you bash those who do. Lead by example, mate. And I don't see, from all those attempts at insulting us, how this post consists of "good discussion" (even though it's better than some.).

Stop with the fanboy-ism. It's beyond silly, now.

Stop arguing without anything to back your arguments up. It's beyond silly, now.

[BongoBanger]

No they're not. Not that they have ever been. They're just riding the momentum of market share that was given to them by IBM (via the IBMPC). Everything, you see, has been copied from someone else.

Really? Why is Office by far the most used productivity suite - including Mac users - then?

I don't give a toss who invents it, I care about who implements it best. In this case it's Microsoft and by a massive margin.

Silly statements help no-one.

[Sehnsucht]

Wow... You're the first one I know who actually had a Zune. Just wow..

Yeah it was the original 30GB...I was convinced by a friend to choose it over an iPod (which is what I really wanted) because it was supposed to be so much better. UGH!!!! Worst 250 bucks I have ever spent. :mad: (and I didn't even have a job then.) I ended up giving it to someone who wanted one really badly as a surprise gift. ;)

Really? Why is Office by far the most used productivity suite - including Mac users - then?

I find Microsoft Word (for Mac) very useful...I just don't like Windows. ;)

[flopticalcube]

Sure, there is some partisanism here. Are you really surprised? Coming in here and purporting unbiased and then pointing fingers isn't very helpful.

Still, I don't think that the issue of fanboyism is as relevant to negative feedback as you'd like to believe. What people are really pointing fingers at, here, is the fact that there's no way that this product would have ever come into existence were it not for iPods and their development. No one should have to be proved that Microsoft follows every good idea Apple brings to the table, with quarterly revelations like this one.

"Its time to stop pointing fingers. Finger pointing gets us nowhere, Steve."
http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/966/966662/southpark-1303Margaritaville-1_1238103209.jpg

[KnightWRX]

You people seem to forget that Microsoft are market leaders in software - so all these comments about how 'bad' the Zune software (both PC software, and device software), is just wrong. It's without reason. You're just wrong. End of story.

You're assuming that they got their market monopoly through software excellency. Actually, they were first handed the PC market on a platter by Gary Kildall's wife, who almost slammed the door on IBM's folks when they came knocking for CP/M to run on their new open hardware architecture, the common PC. Bill Gates was the one who referred IBM to Kildall because Microsoft at the time was a language company, not a OS company, but after they came back he didn't hesitate and bought 86-DOS (or Q-DOS) for 50,000$ off Tim Paterson (resulted in a lawsuit when he learned why they were buying it, Microsoft settled for a million).

They were instantly a monopoly for PC operating systems. DOS being a big easier to copy, some alternatives did crop up after a while (DR-DOS (by Gary Kildall's Digital Research, PC-DOS by IBM). By then, it was too late. Programmers being lazy by definition, already were using MS only APIs, and competitors were forced into the catch-up game (undocumented features need to be reversed engineered, contrary to standardised features, like the POSIX specification provides, which just need implementation).

By the time OS/2 WARP and Windows 95 were pitted against each other, Microsoft already had deals with OEMs and shipping anything besides Windows meant you wouldn't be shipping Windows at all and be relegated to irrelevance.

Also, Windows 95 had code to prevent it from running on anything but MS-DOS even if all the features it required were present (Windows 95 up to Windows Me aren't real operating systems, they're basically 32bit DOS extenders like 4/GW, with a graphical UI and require DOS to be present on the bottom end). DR-DOS/PC-DOS would've been able to run under Windows 95 without a problem, but this integration (like those to follow, namely IE4 + Windows Explorer) lead to market lock-in. This resulted in the anti-trust suit by the DOJ that showed Microsoft had indeed abused its monopoly position.

After being bailed out of the suit by the Bush administration and basically never getting sentenced after being declared guilty, well, we're still at that point.

Microsoft is everything but a compete company. They have manipulated the market and abused their monopoly in OS to force other products to monopoly positions (the not quite true, but tell-tale "DOS isn't done until Lotus123 doesn't run" paradigm).

Microsoft know what they're doing. It's not like they're some small, knowledge-less company.

Ok, now that history is over, on to Business Administration. Microsoft just had a big problem, not even 4 months ago, with the Zune 30 GB :

http://gizmodo.com/5121311/30gb-zunes-failing-everywhere-all-at-once?skyline=true&s=x

Microsoft makes good software right ? Well, not in the this case, they didn't make this software. Like a lot fo their "software" products, they simply licensed (sometimes they outright buy too) someone else's so to accelerate time to market. One problem this time is that the source code was available and people tracked down the actual bug :

http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zune-news/38143-cause-zune-30-leapyear-problem-isolated.html

You'd think that before you'd ship a flagship product with code that was written outside your company, you'd run a thorough code review, or at least, I dunno, trace through the code once, or at the very least, have one of your programmers try to understand what it even does.

And since it was too late to fix once everything broke, the actual "fix" was to deprive Zune owners of their Zune for a day :

http://gizmodo.com/5121822/official-fix-for-the-zune-30-fail

Of course, the other option was letting the battery run out which resets the clock.

Really? Why is Office by far the most used productivity suite - including Mac users - then?

Because the .DOC format that's used for most of the world's word processing documents at this point is documented in a 6000 page document that includes some nifty technical comments like : "should be implemented like it was in Word 95" without anything further to add.

Microsoft pushed Office out the door using its OS monopoly to force bundling of it by OEMs in the 90s. This essentially drove many other product lines, some of which were simply better, out of the market.

[Wikinerd]

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/08/apple_near_saturation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html

I've also seen that survey referenced on these boards.


As for your comment about UI, there just seems to be no logic in that. Whether or not it's 'flashy', is down to opinion. Zune software is far from 'flashy'. It's essentially just big text, that you can scroll through...
Pretty damn easy to use to me.

I also resent your 'it's not clean' comment.
That's just plain ridiculous. Windows 7 is an outstanding OS. Easy to use, functional, great features - and it's aesthetically pleasing. By clean, I'm presuming, that you mean 'minimalist'. If it were minimalist, then it wouldn't be Windows 7, it wouldn't be the same OS. It's function differently, and a hell of a lot harder to use.

The only problem Zune has, is time. It needs time to compete against an already-huge device. It's OS is fine.

First let me remark upon that unless you give us proof that ""100% of teenagers" don't want to buy an ipod", please don't dwell upon that survey. Those are facts and figures. It's time you present some facts of your own.

Now about the GUI's. There's a difference between slick and slimy. Some of us prefer one, some prefer the other—And frankly Microsoft has copied Apple so much that they're quite similar now. (example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM), another example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8)) (and also see how Microsoft adopted their own Compositing Graphics Engine Avalon in Vista after Apple adopted theirs, Quartz, which happened, let's see, 6 years before Vista. Also Avalon's predecessor, which uses GDI graphics, which was modeled after, let's see, the ORIGINAL Macintosh! (1984))


And let me remark that when using computers, I like to use the computer to do things, not use it for fixing it, which happened oh so many times with Vista. 7 should be the free upgrade that all of us Vista users deserve for our suffering.

[BongoBanger]

Microsoft pushed Office out the door using its OS monopoly to force bundling of it by OEMs in the 90s. This essentially drove many other product lines, some of which were simply better, out of the market.

So why did businesses choose IBM and Office rather than, say, Apple and VisiCalc?

MS did use their position to create unfair advantage. That doesn't explain how they got that position in the first place.

[Wikinerd]

Because the .DOC format that's used for most of the world's word processing documents at this point is documented in a 6000 page document that includes some nifty technical comments like : "should be implemented like it was in Word 95" without anything further to add.

Microsoft pushed Office out the door using its OS monopoly to force bundling of it by OEMs in the 90s. This essentially drove many other product lines, some of which were simply better, out of the market.

Thanks. I was busy doing a rebuttal for another post.

Well Office is also part of that momentum that I've talked about. Microsoft—a brand name, would be what a newcomer would get. And that's what they did.

So why did businesses choose IBM and Office rather than, say, Apple and VisiCalc?

MS did use their position to create unfair advantage. That doesn't explain how they got that position in the first place.

That would've been due to their pricing and that Apple was not, and still is not, as of now, ready for mass-enterprise marketing and support.

Again, Microsoft got that advantage when Gary Kildall turned down IBM for his CP/M operating system, and Gates got the contract to license MS-DOS for the IBMPC. That catapulted Microsoft into the top slot, and became the brand name everyone knew.

Really? Why is Office by far the most used productivity suite - including Mac users - then?

I don't give a toss who invents it, I care about who implements it best. In this case it's Microsoft and by a massive margin.

Silly statements help no-one.

If that's what you're saying about software then I shouldn't have any trouble convincing you why we respect the Apple logo like no other.

Oh, and by the way, more often than not it's not Microsoft who implements it best. There were always better software out there, but Microsoft, again, with their market share and inertia, can easily wrestle customers into their territory. Embrace, extend, extinguish. (That is clearly visible with Word and the proprietary XML formatting, or IE and it's proprietary html rendering)

[KnightWRX]

So why did businesses choose IBM and Office rather than, say, Apple and VisiCalc?

MS did use their position to create unfair advantage. That doesn't explain how they got that position in the first place.

I just posted it in another thread. If you know about the PC's history, you know Microsoft got handed the monopoly on OSes on day 1. IBM did all the dirty work in getting the PC itself accepted.

EDIT : scratch that, it's in this very thread, on this very page. See this post for details :

You're assuming that they got their market monopoly through software excellency. Actually, they were first handed the PC market on a platter by Gary Kildall's wife, who almost slammed the door on IBM's folks when they came knocking for CP/M to run on their new open hardware architecture, the common PC. Bill Gates was the one who referred IBM to Kildall because Microsoft at the time was a language company, not a OS company, but after they came back he didn't hesitate and bought 86-DOS (or Q-DOS) for 50,000$ off Tim Paterson (resulted in a lawsuit when he learned why they were buying it, Microsoft settled for a million).

They were instantly a monopoly for PC operating systems. DOS being a big easier to copy, some alternatives did crop up after a while (DR-DOS (by Gary Kildall's Digital Research, PC-DOS by IBM). By then, it was too late. Programmers being lazy by definition, already were using MS only APIs, and competitors were forced into the catch-up game (undocumented features need to be reversed engineered, contrary to standardised features, like the POSIX specification provides, which just need implementation).

By the time OS/2 WARP and Windows 95 were pitted against each other, Microsoft already had deals with OEMs and shipping anything besides Windows meant you wouldn't be shipping Windows at all and be relegated to irrelevance.

Also, Windows 95 had code to prevent it from running on anything but MS-DOS even if all the features it required were present (Windows 95 up to Windows Me aren't real operating systems, they're basically 32bit DOS extenders like 4/GW, with a graphical UI and require DOS to be present on the bottom end). DR-DOS/PC-DOS would've been able to run under Windows 95 without a problem, but this integration (like those to follow, namely IE4 + Windows Explorer) lead to market lock-in. This resulted in the anti-trust suit by the DOJ that showed Microsoft had indeed abused its monopoly position.

After being bailed out of the suit by the Bush administration and basically never getting sentenced after being declared guilty, well, we're still at that point.

Microsoft is everything but a compete company. They have manipulated the market and abused their monopoly in OS to force other products to monopoly positions (the not quite true, but tell-tale "DOS isn't done until Lotus123 doesn't run" paradigm).

[thecartoonguy]

What? Did I hear someone say "hard disk based iPod"?

Those were soooo long ago..

(I do know about the classic but it's like the exception— SSD for teh win!)

Actually there is a rumor about the return of the 5 1/4" floppy :D

[BMWFan]

I am amused by how many fanboys make fun out of Zune and then proceed to defend Macs marketshare vs Windows by stating being more popular doesn't mean it's better.

The data clearly shows Apple has a monopoly on the PMP market, and just like how Apple has trouble taking marketshare away from Windows, Zune will have trouble taking market share away from iPods. That doesn't mean Macs or the Zune is inferior because they sell less.

Microsoft has shown that they can break into new markets eg. Xbox360. You might make fun out of the "Developers, developers, developrers" quote, but if there is one thing that Microsoft does better than almost anyone out there, it is take care of their developers.

Thanks. I was busy doing a rebuttal for another post.

Well Office is also part of that momentum that I've talked about. Microsoft—a brand name, would be what a newcomer would get. And that's what they did.

Apple has the similar momentum. Any newcomer to the PMP market will instinctively go for the iPod. Not because the iPod is better, but because it's what everyone has.

[Wikinerd]

I am amused by how many fanboys make fun out of Zune and then proceed to defend Macs marketshare vs Windows by stating being more popular doesn't mean it's better.

The data clearly shows Apple has a monopoly on the PMP market, and just like how Apple has trouble taking marketshare away from Windows, Zune will have trouble taking market share away from iPods. That doesn't mean Macs or the Zune is inferior because they sell less.

Microsoft has shown that they can break into new markets eg. Xbox360. You might make fun out of the "Developers, developers, developrers" quote, but if there is one thing that Microsoft does better than almost anyone out there, it is take care of their developers.

Ah, that's true. Apple's monopoly in the PMP market. That monopoly exists, but because Apple's iPod happens to be the best when it was launched, and therefore reached #1. Apple didn't have someone else catapult them up like how IBM helped Microsoft get the top slot.

Again this is seen from the iPhone's rapid climb to the top of the smartphone market.

Now if Apple slacks off, I would say that they deserve to have their market share nibbled away by another competitor. But *so far* I'd say they didn't.

By the way, about Zunes, I'd say they are inferior in ways more than one. First, their colors. Although the colors have improved, but that brown-green, pink, blue or red doesn't look nearly as attractive as the iPods. The only color that's feasible is black. Now the interface. The only thing I can say is that there's a difference between slick and slimy. I don't like slimy interfaces. Third, the time bomb. Mentioned previously in this thread, there were mass-failures of these Zunes—that doesn't reassure me that if I bought one it won't die on me so easily. Fourth, the implementation. Like how they market these Zunes as "wifi" capable, only to deliver a crippled, Zune-Zune only version. I guess that pretty much sums up what I think.

Apple has the similar momentum. Any newcomer to the PMP market will instinctively go for the iPod. Not because the iPod is better, but because it's what everyone has.

The difference lies in the way they climbed to the top.


BTW if there's another iPod competitor worth mentioning, feel free to bring it up. I might consider buying them (my iPhone's headphone jack broke as a result of a 5m fall with the thing plugged in.... :()

[KnightWRX]

Apple has the similar momentum. Any newcomer to the PMP market will instinctively go for the iPod. Not because the iPod is better, but because it's what everyone has.

The difference is that Apple wasn't handed the PMP market on a silver platter, nor were they first to market with the iPod. They simply offered a better product (4 GB micro-drive based devices when 128 MB flash were considered high-end) at a price point people were willing to pay.

They were literally years late to the market with the iPod. And you know what ? There's no such thing as vendor lock-in with the iPod. If someone tomorrow comes out with a trendier, more fashionable player, Apple can lose it's dominance in the course of a few months, if not weeks.

[Wikinerd]

Actually there is a rumor about the return of the 5 1/4" floppy :D

Wooo.. sounds better than a zune:D:D:D

(for the windows fanbois that can't tell fact from joke, this is a joke. No way would that be better than a zune)

[Jacqueclaude]

Jesus, I can't believe I'm wasting my time with this. Still, I'll continue, because some of this just made me laugh.

It's called preference. The way you started this post meant that you do have one, and you're defending it; like how we do. The line between "fanboyism" and expressing one's stance on a company's product is really thin—and blurred.

Okay, I suppose I'll give you that. There's always a little bias, but I like to think I don't sway too much to one side, considering I use products from both Apple/Microsoft on a daily basis.



And how is that downright preposterous? This is a rumor. We are just expressing our opinion about what we know; what we see, and what we have seen; even though we sometimes assume we do not fabricate details. Again, we only comment on what we've seen, or what we see. Zune's history really left quite a lot of room for improvement.

The only improvement (In my opinion, of course) that could have been made to Zune's start, is perhaps making the device a little less clunkier. That did not mean, however, that the device wasn't attractive. Myself, and many, many others liked the device.



No they're not. Not that they have ever been. They're just riding the momentum of market share that was given to them by IBM (via the IBMPC). Everything, you see, has been copied from someone else.
MS-DOS? Bought as QDOS, which was in turn an imitation of CP/M.
Windows? A face thrown onto MS-DOS to copy the GUI of the Macintosh (which the GUI was taken from PARC).
IE? Microsoft's solution to Netscape.
Word? Idea stolen from "Bravo" (word processor from PARC)
Excel? Not the first implementation either; first spreadsheet application is "Visicalc" by Dan Bricklin.
PowerPoint? Not originally developed by Microsoft either. It's initial author was Forethought Inc., which was bought by Microsoft in 1987
Xbox? Obviously an imitation of the Playstation and other consoles.
Zune? Need I say more?


The only thing that Microsoft ever made, in my opinion, was to implement a version of BASIC for the Altair 8800—even that was a copy of something else...



I'd like to quote Bongobanger in reply to this, because it's exactly right:



I don't give a toss who invents it, I care about who implements it best. In this case it's Microsoft and by a massive margin.

Microsoft, as a company, had the initiative. It understood what was needed, it found a way to fulfill those needs.

What you said, 'Wikinerd', is plain irrelevant.


Silly statements help no-one.
Problem being that without Bill Gates, what they are doing can be compared to a beast with it's head taken off; it can still be dangerous as it flounders about, but as long as you get out of the way you only need to wait for it to fail, fall, and die.


I suppose, but I cannot foresee Microsoft's fall any time soon. Any time within the next few decades, in fact. It has too many people relying on it, to collapse. It won't happen.



And alright. We won't give you that survey sh** again [I]if you can prove that "'100% of teenagers' do not want iPods.".


Already done.



Somehow I agree with that. Microsoft needs to get up and actually work in order to survive.


Microsoft is surviving. I can't see Apple overtaking them any time soon, as shiny and nice as Macs may be...


Only because that logo somehow guarantees a better experience. (you can take a look at the satisfaction rate of customers if you need proof)


It doesn't guarantee a better experience at all.
It can't guarantee anything, apart from the fact it's an Apple product.



Okay. Lets assume that the "*good*" is not sarcastic. How is that a "good" product then? How does that "brown" appeal to us? How does that (not-so-well-thought-out) interface compare? (How do we know we're not sitting on another time bomb like this one if we use it? (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/30gb-zunes-kill.html))

Now let's assume if that "*good*" is sarcastic—wait, we can't; otherwise the sentence won't make sense.



I'm afraid I wasn't being sarcastic - and the sentence makes perfect sense.
Zune's a great product, it's just not an Apple product. I bet, if before the time of the iPod, Apple came up with Zune - there wouldn't be uproar. Sure, there'd be questions. 'Why are Apple taking such a different approach?' 'What's with the brown?' - but eventually the devices would be used, and Apple fans everywhere would rejoice :rolleyes:.

Ah, and I quote like the Brown.
Everybody like different colours, Jesus. My favourite colour's blue - doesn't mean yours has to be as well.



I like how you say bashing others and other things as bad while you bash those who do. Lead by example, mate. And I don't see, from all those attempts at insulting us, how this post consists of "good discussion" (even though it's better than some.).


I don't intend to insult intellectual persons like your self, and I'm sure many others here - instead, the people that provide us with little insights into their equally little brains. I enjoy discussion, sometimes heated discussion, as many others do - but small comments with nothing to back up what was said, are unnecessary.


Stop arguing without anything to back your arguments up. It's beyond silly, now.

You mustn't be reading what I've been saying, properly.


I do recognise, that despite my efforts, there'll be argument after argument from this post onwards - I am on an Apple related forum after all.
I've given my points, which are more than valid, and further than this it becomes matter of opinion.

[KnightWRX]

I'd like to quote Bongobanger in reply to this, because it's exactly right:

Microsoft, as a company, had the initiative. It understood what was needed, it found a way to fulfill those needs.

What you said, 'Wikinerd', is plain irrelevant.

Microsoft did not always "Implement it best" like you claim. Microsoft often EEE'd it (Embrace, Extend, Extinguish). Basically, some guy comes up with a cool idea (Tim Berners-Lee, WorldWideWeb). Products compete, standards are drafted and put forth. When Microsoft comes in to the market, they start by doing what everyone else is doing. Then, they use their OS monopoly to stuff it down everyone's throat (IE 4 + Windows Explorer coupling), then they make sure to not follow the standards and just go against the grain of what everyone is doing. Finally, the Web is Microsoft's.

Good thing they failed there and now we're back on track, with the W3C standards being more and more respected, browser competition being good (on account that Internet Explorer is just awful at complying to standards and people waking up to them)... too bad it set back the progression of the web by about 10 years though, the rut caused by the stagnation of Internet Explorer, while the standards were years ahead (CSS 2.0/3.0, XHTML 1.0, HTML 5.0 upcoming).

Disclaimer : This post has nothing to do with Apple. Any observer of the web's history knows that Microsoft tried to seize it for themselves. You don't have to be an Apple fanboy or a Linux fanboy or a Sun fanboy or any kind of fanboys to agree on this point.

[Wikinerd]

Jesus, I can't believe I'm wasting my time with this. Still, I'll continue, because some of this just made me laugh.

Okay, I suppose I'll give you that. There's always a little bias, but I like to think I don't sway too much to one side, considering I use products from both Apple/Microsoft on a daily basis.

I guessing from the highlighted words it's obvious enough...


The only improvement (In my opinion, of course) that could have been made to Zune's start, is perhaps making the device a little less clunkier. That did not mean, however, that the device wasn't attractive. Myself, and many, many others liked the device.

An improvement is actually do things with taste. What Steve Jobs said in this video pretty much sums up what I want to say. There's a difference between slick and slimy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfALGcDNEDw

I'd like to quote Bongobanger in reply to this, because it's exactly right:

And I'd like you to read my reply to said quoted message.


Microsoft, as a company, had the initiative. It understood what was needed, it found a way to fulfill those needs.
The question is, did it?

What you said, 'Wikinerd', is plain irrelevant.
Ok. Let me get this straight. This is what you claim that I said.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3431532981_73201478de.jpg?v=0

This is what I actually said.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3432346650_fdc406d803.jpg?v=0

If not fabrication of facts, I don't know what it can be.

I suppose, but I cannot foresee Microsoft's fall any time soon. Any time within the next few decades, in fact. It has too many people relying on it, to collapse. It won't happen.

Maybe across the next decade. You never know. But unless Microsoft really pulls up their socks they're done for; I'd say around 5 years. Then again I can be wrong as this industry is so volatile and unpredictable that any educated guess can easily be proven wrong.

Already done.

No, invisible/made up facts and figures doesn't count. We're still waiting for actual proof.


Microsoft is surviving. I can't see Apple overtaking them any time soon, as shiny and nice as Macs may be...

Apple will reach a saturation point of around 40%, and others, would take the rest. Unless 7 is that much of a success, Microsoft will continue in it's loss of market share.

It doesn't guarantee a better experience at all.
It can't guarantee anything, apart from the fact it's an Apple product.

Unless the customer satisfaction figures says otherwise.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166510&d=1239329245
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166510&d=1239329245 - Notice how Apple's the only computer manufacturer on there.

I'm afraid I wasn't being sarcastic - and the sentence makes perfect sense.
Zune's a great product, it's just not an Apple product. I bet, if before the time of the iPod, Apple came up with Zune - there wouldn't be uproar. Sure, there'd be questions. 'Why are Apple taking such a different approach?' 'What's with the brown?' - but eventually the devices would be used, and Apple fans everywhere would rejoice :rolleyes:.

First, Apple wouldn't have come up with anything similar to the Zune—a crippled copycat item that's priced around the same as it's competitors. Actually, any sane person wouldn't; there's no profit in doing so. But then it's Microsoft; they have almost infinite wealth to support the production of such a product. The Zune actually proves that R&D dollars doesn't translate into innovation. This is, of course, my 5 cents on the situation.


I don't intend to insult intellectual persons like your self, and I'm sure many others here - instead, the people that provide us with little insights into their equally little brains. I enjoy discussion, sometimes heated discussion, as many others do - but small comments with nothing to back up what was said, are unnecessary.

Thanks for summing up my point about your posts.

You mustn't be reading what I've been saying, properly.

Really? I was about to say the same with you.

[Jacqueclaude]

I guessing from the highlighted words it's obvious enough...




An improvement is actually do things with taste. What Steve Jobs said in this video pretty much sums up what I want to say. There's a difference between slick and slimy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfALGcDNEDw



And I'd like you to read my reply to said quoted message.



The question is, did it?


Ok. Let me get this straight. This is what you claim that I said.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3431532981_73201478de.jpg?v=0

This is what I actually said.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3432346650_fdc406d803.jpg?v=0

If not fabrication of facts, I don't know what it can be.



Maybe across the next decade. You never know. But unless Microsoft really pulls up their socks they're done for; I'd say around 5 years. Then again I can be wrong as this industry is so volatile and unpredictable that any educated guess can easily be proven wrong.



No, invisible/made up facts and figures doesn't count. We're still waiting for actual proof.




Apple will reach a saturation point of around 40%, and others, would take the rest. Unless 7 is that much of a success, Microsoft will continue in it's loss of market share.



Unless the customer satisfaction figures says otherwise.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166510&d=1239329245




First, Apple wouldn't have come up with anything similar to the Zune—a crippled copycat item that's priced around the same as it's competitors. Actually, any sane person wouldn't; there's no profit in doing so. But then it's Microsoft; they have almost infinite wealth to support the production of such a product. The Zune actually proves that R&D dollars doesn't translate into innovation. This is, of course, my 5 cents on the situation.




Thanks for summing up my point about your posts.



Really? I was about to say the same with you.

Oh, I did need a good laugh. Thanks.

[SnowLeopard2008]

Microsoft still doesn't understand that features (FM radio, bigger screen, etc.) no longer attract customers. It's the software. By that I mean the iPod touch and iPhone can both access the App Store and download apps that takes PMPs to a whole new level. There's 25K apps that allow for so many functions.

Microsoft has to introduce some App Store clone along with their ZuneHD (what kind of name is that?) in order for it to sell. Why else would someone spend more $$ for the same media functions as any other PMP? People purchase the iPod touch for the App Store.

[PowerFullMac]

Before doing anything like this, I recommend Micro$oft learns to make the clock on the current Zune work...

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Microsoft still doesn't understand that features (FM radio, bigger screen, etc.) no longer attract customers. It's the software. By that I mean the iPod touch and iPhone can both access the App Store and download apps that takes PMPs to a whole new level. There's 25K apps that allow for so many functions.

Microsoft has to introduce some App Store clone along with their ZuneHD (what kind of name is that?) in order for it to sell. Why else would someone spend more $$ for the same media functions as any other PMP? People purchase the iPod touch for the App Store.

I have downloaded over a hundred apps for my iPhone and iPod touch. Want to know how many I have found useful? two. Tweetie and Things.

Want to know what features attract me to a personal media player? screen size and battery life. I can't sit through a whole film watching it on my iPod nano, nor on the iPod classic. The screen on my iPhone is great, but I won't watch a movie on it since that would kill the battery. The only time the screen is good for watching videos on is when I'm on a long flight, and even then I will probably not since I'd need the battery once I landed. I would definitely get a Zune to watch movies on for airplane trips, or to listen to music while jogging or riding my bike.