Why can' Microsoft get it right?

[aditghai]

Hey guys
Before people start fighting I just want to say that I am a current Windows user and am not bashing Microsoft but I just want to discuss this issue-
"Why doesnt Micrsofot make good product"

1) They couldn't get an OS right till XP and they messed up again with Vista?

2)The XBOX 360 was a royal mess with the three red lights or rings.

3)If you DO get spyware for whatever reason-the only real way to clean your system thoroughly is a format-Why not make a software that cleans out
Spyware from the registry(They made the registry so they should know how to clean it)

4) Windows Mobile is so annoying(I am so glad Apple made the iPhone-wouldnt trade it in for a free lifetime service of Blackberry)

However, Microsoft did make some good products
1) Their mice and keyboard are decent
2)Office is good.

So, my question is-with so much more money than any other company in the world-they can afford to pay top dollar to the best engineers, designers etc-So why can't they make a decent product.

Is their management messed up?

[Jpoon]

Oh my god, incoming storm of senseless comments and a thread that will ultimately fail on levels currently unknown to the internet.

[fireshot91]

Hey guys
Before people start fighting I just want to say that I am a current Windows user and am not bashing Microsoft but I just want to discuss this issue-
"Why doesnt Micrsofot make good product"

1) They couldn't get an OS right till XP and they messed up again with Vista?

2)The XBOX 360 was a royal mess with the three red lights or rings.

3)If you DO get spyware for whatever reason-the only real way to clean your system thoroughly is a format-Why not make a software that cleans out
Spyware from the registry(They made the registry so they should know how to clean it)

4) Windows Mobile is so annoying(I am so glad Apple made the iPhone-wouldnt trade it in for a free lifetime service of Blackberry)

However, Microsoft did make some good products
1) Their mice and keyboard are decent
2)Office is good.

So, my question is-with so much more money than any other company in the world-they can afford to pay top dollar to the best engineers, designers etc-So why can't they make a decent product.

Is their management messed up?

That's RIM, not Microsoft.
The Blackberry OS is exactly that- A Blackberry OS. It doesn't run Windows Mobile.

[zap2]

I'd argue they did get it right(or improved their game quite a bit)


Window 7 is exactly what people were asking for...or atleast hardware caught up. Either way, its a good step for MS's main OS


Xbox 360's hardware was rushed...now its been fixed, its a fine product. Software was always pretty good


WM is actually a so-so product for me, it can do a lot, but I find it bloated. Ideal MS will fix that with WM 7(6.5 is a stop gap IMO)

Their office suit is highly respected as a good product by many(I like iWork for what I do) and their mice and keyboard are good(or so I hear, I don't own one myself)

[NT1440]

It may be because many if not most products are designed by commitee instead of having strong guidance from start to finish.

I beleive the "too many chefs in the kitchen" saying applies here.

[aditghai]

I'd argue they did get it right(or improved their game quite a bit)


Window 7 is exactly what people were asking for...or atleast hardware caught up. Either way, its a good step for MS's main OS


Xbox 360's hardware was rushed...now its been fixed, its a fine product. Software was always pretty good


WM is actually a so-so product for me, it can do a lot, but I find it bloated. Ideal MS will fix that with WM 7(6.5 is a stop gap IMO)

Their office suit is highly respected as a good product by many(I like iWork for what I do) and their mice and keyboard are good(or so I hear, I don't own one myself)

Agreed-But why not get it right the first time. When the 1st gen Playstation came out-it rocked.

The 1st gen iPhone was great.

Is it all just haywire in that company?

[Cassie]

Hey guys
Before people start fighting I just want to say that I am a current Windows user and am not bashing Microsoft but I just want to discuss this issue-
"Why doesnt Micrsofot make good product"

1) They couldn't get an OS right till XP and they messed up again with Vista?

2)The XBOX 360 was a royal mess with the three red lights or rings.

3)If you DO get spyware for whatever reason-the only real way to clean your system thoroughly is a format-Why not make a software that cleans out
Spyware from the registry(They made the registry so they should know how to clean it)

4) Windows Mobile is so annoying(I am so glad Apple made the iPhone-wouldnt trade it in for a free lifetime service of Blackberry)

However, Microsoft did make some good products
1) Their mice and keyboard are decent
2)Office is good.

So, my question is-with so much more money than any other company in the world-they can afford to pay top dollar to the best engineers, designers etc-So why can't they make a decent product.

Is their management messed up?

1) A lot of problems with the OS are based on two things: the hardware you are using it on, and the things you do in the OS. Get these two things right, and Windows is very stable and usable. Vista, well, IMO they placed too much attention on form rather then functionality. But it's better now.

2) The Xbox 360 was rushed to market a little too fast, so they could get the edge in the next gen console market. It's about as reliable as any other console out there now, though.

3) A flaw dating back to the early Windows days, that they haven't fixed yet.

4) Can't really answer this one: WM is pretty bad IMO.

[zap2]

Agreed-But why not get it right the first time. When the 1st gen Playstation came out-it rocked.

The 1st gen iPhone was great.

Is it all just haywire in that company?

I think people will argue the iPhone, will great, lacked a lot of stuff. No 3rd party apps, cut/paste, flassh pricey, etc...it was not a perfect device. (I loved mine)

PS1's launch was likely similar to Xbox 1, no hardware faults. MS has gotten things right...it just they also screw things up(but who doesn't)

[dukebound85]

mobileme was a great success..........oh wait

the pippin was a great success.........oh wait

iwork was a great initial success.........oh wait, it didnt even have spreadsheet capability at first

apple has had thier share of mishaps/poor decsions

[aditghai]

2) The Xbox 360 was rushed to market a little too fast, so they could get the edge in the next gen console market. It's about as reliable as any other console out there now, though.


Have the PS3's experience similar problems in such large volumes?

[aditghai]

mobileme was a great success..........oh wait

the pippin was a great success.........oh wait

iwor was a great initial success.........oh wait, it didnt even have spreadsheet capability at first

apple has had thier share of mishaps/poor decsions

I am not comparing it to just Apple products. Take any company and give them the budget MS has-How the hell can you go wrong after being in the market for so many years.

[dukebound85]

I am not comparing it to just Apple products. Take any company and give them the budget MS has-How the hell can you go wrong after being in the market for so many years.

MS hasnt been in the hardware market in terms of consoles for many years you know

[NT1440]

mobileme was a great success..........oh wait

the pippin was a great success.........oh wait

iwork was a great initial success.........oh wait, it didnt even have spreadsheet capability at first

apple has had thier share of mishaps/poor decsions

And no one in this thread has said anything otherwise. Nice of you to be the one to pointless drag in apple to make an apple vs microsoft thread instead of the topic.

[Jpoon]

I am not comparing it to just Apple products. Take any company and give them the budget MS has-How the hell can you go wrong after being in the market for so many years.

See the 2nd post in this thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7452504#post7452504

Similar situation, except on a larger scale.

Large budget and longevity of operation != always equal good product.

Big things inevitably fail.

[bruinsrme]

Hey guys
Before people start fighting I just want to say that I am a current Windows user and am not bashing Microsoft but I just want to discuss this issue-
"Why doesnt Micrsofot make good product"

1) They couldn't get an OS right till XP and they messed up again with Vista? SP1 MAJOR improvement and is stable

2)The XBOX 360 was a royal mess with the three red lights or rings. its called Jasper read up on it

3)If you DO get spyware for whatever reason-the only real way to clean your system thoroughly is a format-Why not make a software that cleans out
Spyware from the registry(They made the registry so they should know how to clean it) what in the world are your talking about

4) Windows Mobile is so annoying(I am so glad Apple made the iPhone-wouldnt trade it in for a free lifetime service of Blackberry) I know a lot of people that seem to have no more problem using that than I have with the iphone. Enterprise functions seem to be a lot better than what the iphone offers

However, Microsoft did make some good products
1) Their mice and keyboard are decent agreed
2)Office is good. agree

So, my question is-with so much more money than any other company in the world-they can afford to pay top dollar to the best engineers, designers etc-So why can't they make a decent product. one thing windows suffers from unlike apple is the number of companies and devieces it has to support

Is their management messed up? messed up, probably not perfect but what management is

[Cassie]

And no one in this thread has said anything otherwise. Nice of you to be the one to pointless drag in apple to make an apple vs microsoft thread instead of the topic.

Generally, when listing the faults of MS, it's usually done in comparison to Apple.

[dukebound85]

And no one in this thread has said anything otherwise. Nice of you to be the one to pointless drag in apple to make an apple vs microsoft thread instead of the topic.

i was addressing this , the part i bolded :rolleyes:


Agreed-But why not get it right the first time. When the 1st gen Playstation came out-it rocked.

The 1st gen iPhone was great.

Is it all just haywire in that company?

way to make a pointless comment for no reason

[NT1440]

MS hasnt been in the hardware market in terms of consoles for many years you know

They had a great product with the Xbox, barely any problems. They cheaped out on the "x-clamps" and chips on the 360 resulting in a startling failure rate.

They screwed up.

(I do love my 360 tho, only once has it broken and I got it back in a week)

[NT1440]

i was addressing this , the part i bolded :rolleyes:




way to make a pointless comment for no reason

So instead of including that so any of us could see it , you chose not to quote it and make it an apple thread because.....?

[dukebound85]

So instead of including that so any of us could see it , you chose not to quote it and make it an apple thread because.....?

because i forgot to quote it maybe as i just hit the reply buton.....

so far, you are the only one who is making an issue out of this. no idea why:confused:

[michael.lauden]

Probably best to wasteland this thread before it divulges into a petty "Windows vs Mac" debate...

+1

but i will state my opinion: i think they got the xbox 360 right, and xp and 2000 weren't that bad. all their credibility was lost w/the releases after that (IMO)

[Burnsey]

Oh my god, incoming storm of senseless comments and a thread that will ultimately fail on levels currently unknown to the internet.

Oh please, the modern term is interwebz.

[remmy]

I do agree with the OP, there have been quite a few minor fails and not that many big big successes, yet they are still around today, so they must be very good at business.

[Beerfloat]

While I usually let this us vs them topics pass by I feel I must take this opportunity to voice my strong disagreement with the OP.

Microsoft is an innovative creator of high quality software. Sure, they've made some godawful tripe in their time, like for instance Sharepoint, Internet Explorer, Windows Update, Access, System Management Server, SQL Server, Windows Live, Windows Home Server, Word, Vista, Server 2008, Virtual Server, Excel, Visual Studio, Powerpoint, Windows ME, Microsoft Works, MSDN, Live Search, XBox 360, XP, CE, Mobile, MSN, MSDN and countless other tragic failures. But I maintain that Solitaire is still the premier card playing app of our time, and at least most of their products have an exit button.

[Consultant]

Well, many failures of MS
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC.html

[Melrose]

Probably best to wasteland this thread before it divulges into a petty "Windows vs Mac" debate...

:eek: You don't actually think it'll sink to that?!

























:D

[leekohler]

Speaking of which, I just had a friend switch. It took me ten years to convince him, but it happened. :) He said after Vista, he just gave up.

[pilotError]

Microsoft was pretty ruthless in it's execution early on. They would just outspend other companies to become the monopoly they are today.

At this point, they are an extremely diversified conglomerate with focus on 20 different areas. They have a pretty tremendous R&D program. I think the biggest issues they have is project creep, code bloat and being able to move from R&D to a successful product.

Windows suffers from everything but the kitchen sink syndrome. With Win 7, they are starting to get back on track. MS was notorious for changing the API's and their frameworks every couple of years, forcing rewrites of existing code for newer OS's. That has slowed considerably since .NET was introduced.

They were caught off guard with the whole internet revolution, but have managed to buy their way back into the game. I think Google just kills them.

There's so many reasons they got things right and wrong...

I think their past is their biggest issue. The buy or conquer attitude has left them pretty hated in most circles. Kind of a necessary evil.

They still have a lot of momentum though, even if they stopped doing anything, they have a huge cash cow in Windows / Office / Internet offerings / Sql Server that they could survive on that alone.

The Monopoly / market share they command is unusual for any company in history. I don't think there's been any company in history that has commanded a 90+% market penetration for a market segment for so many years.

Apple is denting their reputation in the consumer space and MS is now retaliating. They really have nothing to fear from Apple except for mind share. Linux is a much bigger threat to them in the data center than Apple will be for the foreseeable future.

There recent missteps are just that. Late to market in a product segment they know nothing about. The iPod / iPhone was something that Apple had researched to death before they made a move on it. Microsoft was reactionary on both fronts and probably makes a decent product, but they came in so late to the party with no real advantage over what was already out there, its just dying a slow painful death. If they cut the Zune to $99 with the same functionality as the iPod touch, you might see a different story.

Xbox - Nice first attempt on their part. I think they've done a pretty good job of it. Either way, it's a mindshare product, not a huge contributor to the bottom line.

I know it's fun to bash MS, but the reality is, they still have no real competition in any one company, just a bunch of assaults in individual market segments. They've held up pretty well despite that.

[clevin]

yeah, a company did everything wrong and get 95% of the market, and still 95% now.

Is this topic even worth arguing? with every sentence comes from a subjective manner.

[Boneoh]

While I usually let this us vs them topics pass by I feel I must take this opportunity to voice my strong disagreement with the OP.

Microsoft is an innovative creator of high quality software. Sure, they've made some godawful tripe in their time, like for instance Sharepoint, Internet Explorer, Windows Update, Access, System Management Server, SQL Server, Windows Live, Windows Home Server, Word, Vista, Server 2008, Virtual Server, Excel, Visual Studio, Powerpoint, Windows ME, Microsoft Works, MSDN, Live Search, XBox 360, XP, CE, Mobile, MSN, MSDN and countless other tragic failures. But I maintain that Solitaire is still the premier card playing app of our time, and at least most of their products have an exit button.

LOL :p I agree.

I've been using Windows since Win 3.1, programming in VB in 1991, Access since 1.1, SQL since the beginning.

IMO here are the issues:

<rant>

1. MS is the best MARKETING company in the industry. They can sell the software before it is anywhere near done. The software side of the business gets a C average. Sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse.

2. Their approach to software development seems to be large teams thrown into an effort. While they do get a complex system out, there tend to be way too many glitches. The products interfaces, sdks, etc. often seem to be overly complex. A camel is the result of a committee designing a horse.

3. It seems that they are not taking a software engineering approach. If you have software that you want to be very solid, tight, reliable, etc. then the costs go up. Software for airplanes, the space shuttle, locomotives, and critical equipment costs a lot more to develop and test. But MS seems to be at the opposite end of the spectrum.

</rant>

[Silencio]

The #1 thing wrong with Microsoft is their leadership, its naked megalomania and absolute lack of vision for its products. This happens when your main corporate mission is to grind the competition into dust, rather than make great products. Sure, you don't really need a "vision" for Windows when it's running on 90% of the desktops in the world, but that lack of discipline leads to horrible products like Vista.

That lack of vision and hunger to innovate leads down to many of their other product lines that don't actually enjoy monopoly status, Windows Mobile being perhaps the most glaring example.

Some of their groups do have the ability to compete and make a decent-to-good product: Xbox 360 is the obvious example. IIRC, that group's leadership is pretty autonomous and doesn't have to answer (much) to Ballmer. That group also produced the Zune, which is not a horrid product by any means -- it just came out way too late to make any difference.

So, yeah: my point is Microsoft's #1 problem is Steve Ballmer. His paranoia and lust for absolute and total dominance of the computing market is the reason they're treading water these days.

[akm3]

I still can't believe they originally named Windows Mobile 'Wince'

[Mintin8]

I still can't believe they originally named Windows Mobile 'Wince'

Wow, Did they? HAHA!!

[notjustjay]

Wow, Did they? HAHA!!

Windows CE. The CE either stood for "Compact Edition" or "Consumer Electronics". Commonly abbreviated WinCE.

[notjustjay]

I think their past is their biggest issue. The buy or conquer attitude has left them pretty hated in most circles. Kind of a necessary evil.

The past is definitely their biggest issue. Because they command such high market share, and so many people depend on Windows for their businesses and livelihood, they MUST make sure that every new version of Windows is backwards-compatible with as much as possible... unfortunately that means that the bad designs and vulnerabilities of the past also tend to make their way in.

Apple, on the other hand, has gone through several transformations in order to ditch old platforms and embrace new technologies. We went from Motorola 68K code to PPC. Then an OS platform change from OS 9 to OS X. Then OS X on PPC to OS X on Intel.

Each time, there were transitions. Fat Binaries, booting into Classic, Rosetta, were used as stopgap solutions. Unfortunately, each time a transition was made, developers had to rebuild their apps. There were always a few people, a few apps, left behind. But with relatively low market share, relatively few developers, Apple could afford to do that, effectively sacrificing the few for the good of the many. Microsoft just hasn't been willing, or able, to do the same.

[BMWFan]

Judging by the number of people that still go with the Xbox360 after multiple hardware failures, you can't deny Microsoft got it right with the Xbox360 as a whole.

Apple on the other hand has its own fair share of failures as well.

AppleTV
MobileMe

etc.

[Saladinos]

IMO, it comes from Microsoft's business model. They supply software. That's what Windows and WinMo are.

That software has to work on a myriad of devices which all work in different ways, so it ends up being a pile of compromise. OEMs also have little control, so they can't design their PCs as they want to. Want a multi-touch trackpad like Apple has? Sorry, wait until Windows 7 before the OS will support it.

It's also made OEMs lazy, IMO. They don't care about making a good product because that's not their business. Their business is to make cheap generic devices that can run Windows, with little room for product differentiation.

They also focus on marketing rather than engineering. Engineers at Apple clearly have a lot of freedom.

[clevin]

IMO, it comes from Microsoft's business model. They supply software. That's what Windows and WinMo are.

im sure any reasonable person would thank microsoft for that, supplying windows to numeropus hardware makers. The whole industry, as well as end users, all should thank microsoft for that.


They also focus on marketing rather than engineering. Engineers at Apple clearly have a lot of freedom.

My suspicion is that exact opposite is true at apple.

clearly have a lot of freedom? how?

[patrick0brien]

Why can' Microsoft get it right?

Direct answer: Because getting it 'right' is not a top priority for Microsoft. Getting it to sellable state is. And it's worked out pretty well for them so far...