Next Generation iPhone Component Suppliers?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/next-generation-iphone-component-suppliers/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/04/14/073816-iphone_425.png

Digitimes publishes (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090414PD219.html) this list of component suppliers for the next generation iPhone that is rumored to arrive in mid 2009. The component list isn't particularly revealing except it reinforces (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/03/apple-ordering-3-2-and-5-megapixel-camera-sensors-for-iphone-and-future-product/) the rumor that Apple will be using a 3.2 megapixel camera from OmniVision in the next generation iPhone. The current iPhone uses a 2 megapixel camera.

Digitime's sources claim that the suppliers will begin shipping in May and the first batch is estimated at around 5 million units.

Article Link: Next Generation iPhone Component Suppliers? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/next-generation-iphone-component-suppliers/)

[iOrlando]

so exciting

[Airforcekid]

Two cameras or is that just seperate parts? Also didnt see anything about 3G maybe there are egde only models?

[edesignuk]

[Unless I'm going blind] No mention of the screen. So it'll be the same unit?

[WPB2]

How different is this from the current 3G besides the 3.2 megapixel camera?

Where is the processor?

[zedsdead]

Two cameras or is that just seperate parts? Also didnt see anything about 3G maybe there are egde only models?

One is likely the lens, and the other is the sensor...at least that is my guess.

No mention of the processor yet.

[WPB2]

Two cameras or is that just seperate parts? Also didnt see anything about 3G maybe there are egde only models?

It says GSM/ EDGE by TriQuint. thats the 3G amp.

[CalumC]

How different is this from the current 3G besides the 3.2 megapixel camera?

Where is the processor?

my thoughts exactly, I'm not seeing anything to make me that bothered about going for the recent o2 discount deal

[curlyjimbo]

I wonder if its the same shell, i was kind of hoping for a new shell, a different look.

[months]

I guess no one realized it yet, but that says WCDMA. Looks like iphone is going to non-GSM carriers!

[crisss1205]

Two cameras or is that just seperate parts? Also didnt see anything about 3G maybe there are egde only models?
WCDMA is 3G!

[Dagless]

2 cameras, so we're getting front and back facing cameras (for video calls)? If so- very nice!

But whatever happens I'll certainly be holding off an iPhone until this new model is released.

[twoodcc]

can't wait. though what happened to the 5.0 meg camera?

[crisss1205]

I guess no one realized it yet, but that says WCDMA. Looks like iphone is going to non-GSM carriers!

WCDMA is the same thing as 3G it is also knows at UMTS (in current iPhone)
(Somebody correct me if I'm wrong)

[SkippyThorson]

I wonder if its the same shell, i was kind of hoping for a new shell, a different look.

Wouldn't Apple themselves be the maker of the physical body though? If so, it makes sense they wouldn't list themselves. They do make their own MacBook bodies.

Please no glossy plastic.:p

[slinky0390]

I wonder if its the same shell, i was kind of hoping for a new shell, a different look.

They could be switching back to aluminum and milling their own shells like they did the macbooks, and they just forgot to mention all the aluminum blocks they ordered. (I have no evidence of any of this, I would like it to happen though :D)

[garethjs]

are there orders for 2 cameras? Could this possibly mean video calling or ichat video perhaps?

[JensenJJ]

I guess no one realized it yet, but that says WCDMA. Looks like iphone is going to non-GSM carriers!

Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) is one of the third-generation (3G) mobile telecommunications technologies, which is also being developed into a 4G technology. Currently, the most common form of UMTS uses W-CDMA as the underlying air interface. UMTS and its use of W-CDMA is standardized by the 3GPP, and is the European answer to the ITU IMT-2000 requirements for 3G cellular radio systems.

To differentiate UMTS from competing network technologies, UMTS is sometimes marketed as 3GSM, emphasizing the combination of the 3G nature of the technology and the GSM standard which it was designed to succeed.


UMTS, using W-CDMA, supports up to 21 Mbit/s data transfer rates in theory (with HSDPA)

[pwn247]

Is it just me or are we looking at two cameras?

Seems like it would make sense to have the 3.2 megapixel camera on the back for picture-taking, and a slightly lower resolution camera on the front for video chatting or something like that.

But then again, if Apple puts two cameras on the device it will turn out to be somewhat clunky and (more or less) a stupid waste. So they're probably saying one is the lens and the other is the sensor. OmniVision makes lenses for professional cinema movie cameras, so that makes sense.

[fleshman03]

It does appear to have two cameras on there.

I wonder.... was this just a list they pulled out of thin air, justified with rumors? Or is this an actual list?

Also in the last iPhone/Camera MacRumors article (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/03/apple-ordering-3-2-and-5-megapixel-camera-sensors-for-iphone-and-future-product/)posted we heard this, "OmniVision has received 3.2-megapixel CMOS image sensor (CIS) orders for Apple's next-generation iPhone, according to market sources. The company is also said to have secured 5-megapixel CIS orders for another Apple product expected to be launched later in the year."

Worth pointing out.

[GregA]

I guess no one realized it yet, but that says WCDMA. Looks like iphone is going to non-GSM carriers!

Or to paraphrase the JensenJJ's reply....

The current iPhone 3G is already WCDMA. So no change there.

[commander.data]

It does appear to have two cameras on there.
Does it? I think the OmniVision is just making the sensor while Largan Precision is making the lens.

Hopefully even if Apple keeps the same processor it's clocked at iPod Touch 2G speeds and has double the RAM, the latter being the most important.

[krypticos]

did anyone notice that the gps is now an a-gps which is an assisted gps so no more real gps some one correct me if this is wrong

[instaxgirl]

[Unless I'm going blind] No mention of the screen. So it'll be the same unit?

Shame if so. The one hardware thing that I would really like is a bigger screen.

[Banjhiyi]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

[svndmvn]

did anyone notice that the gps is now an a-gps which is an assisted gps so no more real gps some one correct me if this is wrong

A-GPS is GPS with assistance from towers, which is better than simple GPS, the current iPhone 3g has A-GPS, so no change there either.

[curlyjimbo]

two cameras would be nice. An aluminum body would be great, well at least better than the current glossy plastic one they're using at the moment.:p

[tri3limited]

A personal assumption of the cameras situation would suggest that they were parts. The 3.2mp being the sensor and the camera being the physical glass/encasing.

[fleshman03]

Does it? I think the OmniVision is just making the sensor while Largan Precision is making the lens.

Hopefully even if Apple keeps the same processor it's clocked at iPod Touch 2G speeds and has double the RAM, the latter being the most important.

Yeah maybe your right.

I have this funny feeling something cool with the processor is gonna happen. Just a feeling.

[TheOrioles33]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

3.2 MP will be fine. No need for more unless you plan on printing posters. What we need is decent technology behind the lens for taking great pictures. Everyone is hung up on megapixels for some reason.

And I dont know about you guys, but who really wants/needs video calling? Unless of course you want to have naked phone sex. :D

[fleshman03]

3.2 MP will be fine. No need for more unless you plan on printing posters. What we need is decent technology behind the lens for taking great pictures. Everyone is hung up on megapixels for some reason.

And I dont know about you guys, but who really wants/needs video calling? Unless of course you want to have naked phone sex. :D

Speaking of phone sex....

Does anyone else find it funny when news stories talk about sexting, naked MMS and teens... and then they show a picture of the iPhone.

[.Andy]

And I dont know about you guys, but who really wants/needs video calling? Unless of course you want to have naked phone sex. :D
If you only ever use it once it will be worth it.

[Lesser Evets]

3.2 MP will be fine. No need for more unless you plan on printing posters. What we need is decent technology behind the lens for taking great pictures. Everyone is hung up on megapixels for some reason.

Finally. A realistic look at the situation.

2 Megapixels has been enough for me. I am curious why people need such gigantic resolutions.

[Sehnsucht]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/facepalm1.jpg

As long as the sensor can take sharp, clear pictures, who cares how many megapixels it is. The camera could be 24MP and still suck.

[BornAgainMac]

Finally. A realistic look at the situation.

2 Megapixels has been enough for me. I am curious why people need such gigantic resolutions.

Cropping and having a result image that can fill a screen and still look nice. But a good quality lens should be priority over the number of pixels.

I hope the next iPhone has video iChat.

[petebuckingham]

I just think it's bizarre they're not offering a higher mega pixel camera. I think with the iphone they have actually just been holding back on certain features so we all want to upgrade to each new model. Probably the only reason people will upgrade is for video/higher pixel and surely they could have offered that on the first 3G phone. :(

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

[Unless I'm going blind] No mention of the screen. So it'll be the same unit?

Good catch. It probably will be the same. It is a nice screen.

[nagromme]

are there orders for 2 cameras? Could this possibly mean video calling or ichat video perhaps?

I don't know if this list tells us that. But wasn't there some rumor lately about Apple orders for cameras of two different megapixel sizes? I want to say 3.2 and 5.0? If so, the big one could be in back and the small one for iChat on the front.

It would be very cool to have higher quality on the main camera, PLUS a user-facing camera, AND have both cams support video recording, editing and live transmission. (Wishful thinking.)

[askfareed]

So according to this, would that mean that the new iPhone is likely to come out in June/July?

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

How different is this from the current 3G besides the 3.2 megapixel camera?

Where is the processor?

I'm hoping that the processor is coming from PA Semi. Apple is able to keep that hush hush since they own the company that makes it. Just my guess though.

[boylovesgirl]

i would settle for a netbook/touchthing device with double screen size of current iphone. just sold my psp because the tiny screen. same with iphone. tiny screen for a lot of money. connected services would make me a buyer though.

[sushi]

But a good quality lens should be priority over the number of pixels.
I definitely agree with this.

Pixels are only part of the story. The lens plays a significant role as well.

[nagromme]

Finally. A realistic look at the situation.

2 Megapixels has been enough for me. I am curious why people need such gigantic resolutions.

Not to mention, more MP means more noise, even after the images are sized similarly. There are some examples online that are pretty persuasive: less light reaches each pixel and quality suffers unless you have expensive components and optics (not likely in a phone) along WITH the high MP.

I'd "settle" for better optics and 2.x+ MP. 3 to 4 would be great. Higher MP is often little more than a marketing decision.

See also the Megapixel Myth: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/12/the-more-pixels.html

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/kompromiss%201.jpg

[stevearm]

3.2MP? For **** sake.

When everyone is on 4-5MP cameraphones, Apple releases 2MP.

Now when companies are releasing 5-7MP cameraphones, Apple goes with 3.2

Pathetic. Doubt there's be a flash as well.

[stevearm]

Not to mention, more MP means more noise, even after the images are sized similarly. There are some examples online that are pretty persuasive: less light reaches each pixel and quality suffers unless you have expensive components and optics (not likely in a phone) along WITH the high MP.

I'd "settle" for better optics and 2.x+ MP. 3 to 4 would be great. Higher MP is often little more than a marketing decision.

See also the Megapixel Myth: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/12/the-more-pixels.html

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/kompromiss%201.jpg


Sorry that's bollocks.

The photos my 3 year old N95 (5MP) are far far better than my current iPhone ones. Yes there is a megapixel myth, but it doesn't work lower down the scale like 2 > 3.2 > 5.

[goodwilldrums]

Speaking of phone sex....

Does anyone else find it funny when news stories talk about sexting, naked MMS and teens... and then they show a picture of the iPhone.

I always wondered if I was the only one noticing that! Very funny catch!

[JonHimself]

3.2MP? For **** sake.

When everyone is on 4-5MP cameraphones, Apple releases 2MP.

Now when companies are releasing 5-7MP cameraphones, Apple goes with 3.2

Pathetic. Doubt there's be a flash as well.

I never thought about this.. more MP absolutely means better picture... I bet those smart phones with 5-7 mp cameras take WAY better photos than my D50 with only 6.1mp... oh wait, there's been more than handful of posts preceding yours discussing that mp's aren't necessarily the most important feature and that with a good sensor/lens 3.2 mp is MORE than enough for most people (key word - most)... I have no stats but I think it's reasonable to assume that people NOT happy with quality of the iPhone photos are fewer than those that are happy/don't care.... they're just not as vocal.

[TheOrioles33]

3.2MP? For **** sake.

When everyone is on 4-5MP cameraphones, Apple releases 2MP.

Now when companies are releasing 5-7MP cameraphones, Apple goes with 3.2

Pathetic. Doubt there's be a flash as well.

Please read post #30,33,34 and 35. Its NOT the MP that matters!!

[spaceballl]

I was most interested to see the CPU manufacturer, but they didn't print that

[Sehnsucht]

3.2MP? For **** sake.

When everyone is on 4-5MP cameraphones, Apple releases 2MP.

Now when companies are releasing 5-7MP cameraphones, Apple goes with 3.2

Pathetic. Doubt there's be a flash as well.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/facepalm1.jpg

[dlewis23]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

3.2 MP will be good if its a GOOD 3.2 MP sensor and lens. A good 3.2 MP would blow away the average 5 MP that you see in cell phones.

[tomscott1988]

As to the amount of MP a camera sensor can produce this are important but the actual size of the sensor is the most important. A compact camera with a resolution of 15mp will not be as great as a DSLR with a 10MP sensor because the size of the sensor is much smaller, same goes with a canon 5D, the previous 12MP sensor was full frame so 35mm size and a 40D is AP-C sized so nearly half the size but had 10MP by the number you would think the quality is around the same but passed A3 the full frame sensor will show much better details. Therefore the more you cram on a small sensor the result is you can blow pictures past A3 size but the quality from a 15mp compact camera will be no where near close to that of a 10mp DSLR of the same size, same with the better models.
The hope is that apple has ordered a larger sensor so the images will look comparable to the 8mp sony equivalents at the same size, but i doubt it.
The size of these sensors also needs a distance ratio from the lens, so a thickness change would need to be made, also if a decent camera was added it would dominate the design on the rear ruining the simplistic comptemporary design on the back and aesthetics is more important to apple than a camera.
To be honest if you want a decent camera experience the mobile platform is far from it!

[ipoppy]

So according to this, would that mean that the new iPhone is likely to come out in June/July?

Yes, thats pretty obvious by now. All recent Apple iPhone related patents, WWCD conference, hacked features from iPhone OS 3.0 etc. Get ready your wallet for new iPhone this summer:mad:

[Bitmap Frog]

While it is true megapixels aren't the only value to measure a camera quality (sensor size, dinamic range, noise, etc), 5MP is the absolute minimum.

And some form of focusing. The current fixed focus is bollocks =/

[koobcamuk]

Can we talk about the phone again please?

r.e. cameras - 3.2 Mega pixels is fine, if they bring in a good lens and some kind of focus ability. My Sharp 903SH takes amazing photos and was made in 2005.

[zombitronic]

I don't see a magnetometer in the list. :confused: The addition of "magnetometer" in the configuration files really had me convinced. I hope this is an incomplete list. The magnetometer was the single selling point for me.

[ipoppy]

And I dont know about you guys, but who really wants/needs video calling? Unless of course you want to have naked phone sex. :D

For me and many others it will be killer feature. I love video iChat with my friends and especially with family. Now when I will be out I could show them where I am and what I do etc.
I am not asking you to understand this like no one ask you why are you Apple/Mac addict...well if you are. I am :D

[Diode]

I just want a new 3G chip that won't drop so many calls ....

[DELLsFan]

If you go on a vacation to an exotic location you don't plan to visit again, do you use your iPhone to take pictures or a good camera that can arguably do much more for you?

I like that the iPhone can take pictures, but I don't need more than 2 Megapixels for casual shots. iPhone photography is spur-of-the moment, candid shot, spontaneous photography. I am not terribly interested in professional quality. Besides, the lens is the key to success with photography, IMO. I don't see the one on the iPhone becoming a priority for Apple anytime soon.

:apple:

[koobcamuk]

My 2005 camera phone (Sharp 903SH (http://web.mac.com/martinirwin/mobilereview/Reviews/Entries/2008/3/9_Travels_through_the_east.html)) took this photo... (3.2MP) just a good CCD lens and auto focus.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5203/07041518092iphotoedited.jpg

[koobcamuk]

I just want a new 3G chip that won't drop so many calls ....

That's AT&T mate. I've never had a dropped call in the UK. Ever.

Except when I swore at the person on the other end...

[Voidness]

I don't see a magnetometer in the list. :confused: The addition of "magnetometer" in the configuration files really had me convinced. I hope this is an incomplete list. The magnetometer was the single selling point for me.
This is obviously an incomplete list. No mention of CPU, screen, battery, enclosure, accelerometer, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, vibrator, etc.

I'm also hoping for a magnetometer. A lot of interesting applications can be developed for it. :)

[B2k1977]

I don't know if this list tells us that. But wasn't there some rumor lately about Apple orders for cameras of two different megapixel sizes? I want to say 3.2 and 5.0? If so, the big one could be in back and the small one for iChat on the front.

It would be very cool to have higher quality on the main camera, PLUS a user-facing camera, AND have both cams support video recording, editing and live transmission. (Wishful thinking.)

Goodness....All you folks that want ichat and video cameras, why don't you buy a laptop? Do you know how bad video chat would suck on an iphone? think about it? you'd have a convex looking face/head holding the phone up to your face, and I can't imagine the quality being that great. And with AT&T's network, good luck having a conversation. It would be more like a picture slideshow then a video because of the constant video jerk caused by AT&T's slow shameful network. 3.2 mega for stills would be perfect. I too, don't understand why everyone wants a camera in their iphone that rivals a nikon D80. Get a grip folks, its just a phone.

[fleshman03]

My 2005 camera phone (Sharp 903SH (http://web.mac.com/martinirwin/mobilereview/Reviews/Entries/2008/3/9_Travels_through_the_east.html)) took this photo... (3.2MP) just a good CCD lens and auto focus.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5203/07041518092iphotoedited.jpg

Impressive.

I see Cell Phone Photography becoming an art in itself.

[abnospam]

Remember all the talk about dropped calls being due to a bad chip or bad design? Did Apple replace this chip? If so, I think that points to some truth. If not, it was likely unfounded.

[ipoppy]

Can we talk about the phone again please?

r.e. cameras - 3.2 Mega pixels is fine, if they bring in a good lens and some kind of focus ability. My Sharp 903SH takes amazing photos and was made in 2005.

Agree on this. iPhone 3G make nice pictures especially outside. I know it hasn't got many pixels but technology behind colors, tones matter more than size of lens. On the end of the day its a phone; its not camera. Next thing you will moan about that it doesn't have a shaver too.
Bottom line for this forum is, as someone got that in his signature, that if Jesus would turn all available water into red wine, half of this forum will moan that they wanted white one.:D

[Bitmap Frog]

If you go on a vacation to an exotic location you don't plan to visit again, do you use your iPhone to take pictures or a good camera that can arguably do much more for you?

I like that the iPhone can take pictures, but I don't need more than 2 Megapixels for casual shots. iPhone photography is spur-of-the moment, candid shot, spontaneous photography. I am not terribly interested in professional quality. Besides, the lens is the key to success with photography, IMO. I don't see the one on the iPhone becoming a priority for Apple anytime soon.

:apple:

I like my spur-of-the moment, candit shot, spontaneous photography look "allright" not a bunch of pixelated, blurred noise.

[Aqueus]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

lol

[Voidness]

Goodness....All you folks that want ichat and video cameras, why don't you buy a laptop? Do you know how bad video chat would suck on an iphone? think about it? you'd have a convex looking face/head holding the phone up to your face, and I can't imagine the quality being that great. And with AT&T's network, good luck having a conversation. It would be more like a picture slideshow then a video because of the constant video jerk caused by AT&T's slow shameful network. 3.2 mega for stills would be perfect. I too, don't understand why everyone wants a camera in their iphone that rivals a nikon D80. Get a grip folks, its just a phone.
I couldn't agree more. Before I got an iPhone 3G, I've been using a Sony Ericsson W880i. It's a 3G phone with a front facing camera. I tried video call a few times, and it just doesn't work. The video resolution is too low, and it was more like a slideshow than a video. Not just that, holding up the phone at a distance in front of my face for a while just doesn't feel very comfortable, not to mention awkward in public.

[Sehnsucht]

My 2005 camera phone (Sharp 903SH (http://web.mac.com/martinirwin/mobilereview/Reviews/Entries/2008/3/9_Travels_through_the_east.html)) took this photo... (3.2MP) just a good CCD lens and auto focus.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5203/07041518092iphotoedited.jpg

That's awesome. :eek:

[yorkshire]

lol

Constructive input.


Seriously though, 3.2MP will be fine as long as the lens etc is good enough. If it can takes pictures like that chap's Sharp phone, it'll be great.

I'd really like to hear some info about battery life, and the casing of the phone itself.

[fastbite]

My 2005 camera phone (Sharp 903SH (http://web.mac.com/martinirwin/mobilereview/Reviews/Entries/2008/3/9_Travels_through_the_east.html)) took this photo... (3.2MP) just a good CCD lens and auto focus.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5203/07041518092iphotoedited.jpg

I wonder how the pic would look if you had moving students... ;)

[emotion]

I like my spur-of-the moment, candit shot, spontaneous photography look "allright" not a bunch of pixelated, blurred noise.

Absolutely agree. I think most people who actually own iPhones who have commented think this too.

(yes that excludes all you people commenting who've not owned one yet :) )

I'd like to see a camera that can take pics in less than bright sunlight. I live in Manchester, UK. We get maybe 5 days of California-bright sunlight in a whole year :)

[fleshman03]

Constructive input.

I'd really like to hear some info about battery life, and the casing of the phone itself.

It will have both.

[funkdis]

Basically my current Sony has a 8.1mp camera, it looks all rite, but to get a decent sharp image out of it, i need to make the picture 30% smaller in photoshop to increase the pixels per inch and the static.

so with a 3.2mp camera I'll have to decrease the size at least 40% to minimize the noise in the picture.

end of the day all camera phones are hopeless, great for quick snaps to remember something. so i rather a higher mp camera than a lower.

[MaxiKana]

Basically my current Sony has a 8.1mp camera, it looks all rite, but to get a decent sharp image out of it, i need to make the picture 30% smaller in photoshop to increase the pixels per inch and the static.

so with a 3.2mp camera I'll have to decrease the size at least 40% to minimize the noise in the picture.

end of the day all camera phones are hopeless, great for quick snaps to remember something. so i rather a higher mp camera than a lower.

That is so wrong on so many levels.

The reason you have to decrease the size in photoshop to make the photo sharper is because the camera is using aggressive noise reduction algorithms which do a good job of removing the noise but also removes details. When you resize the photo you aren't making it any "sharper". It just apears more sharp at the per pixel level. You aren't creating any more details. They are lost forever when the camera does the noise removal.

To get a sharper photo you want less noise reduction. To be able to use less noise reduction and get a photo with an acceptable amount of noise you want a sensor that is highly sensitive to light. The easiest way to do this is with large pixels. Large pixels are physically larger and therefore able to gather more photons (light) and less noise. Large pixels also mean fewer pixels if the sensor were the same size. This is why less is more in terms of pixels.

There is, as always, a but. If you compare the camera in the current Iphone which was launched in 2007. It is already very old. Newer camera sensors have better hardware which changes the analog signal each pixel generates into a digital signal (signal amplifier) and other hardware which removes noise even before it is turned into digital data. This is why an 8mp sensor has less noise than some 3mp sensors.

If you would make two camera phone-size sensors with the same technology, one with 3mp and one with 8mp then most likely the 3mp sensor will retain more detail than the 8mp one.

[Prenvo]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

Yeah, my Nokia 595345i has a 52MP camera, complete with grainy photos :D

My iPhone 3G on the other hand has a cruddy 2MP camera which takes awesome quality photos :(

[Banjhiyi]

Absolutely agree. I think most people who actually own iPhones who have commented think this too.

(yes that excludes all you people commenting who've not owned one yet :) )

I'd like to see a camera that can take pics in less than bright sunlight. I live in Manchester, UK. We get maybe 5 days of California-bright sunlight in a whole year :)

I have a Jesus Phone Mk1 and the pictures it takes are utter gash. I'm not holding my breath that Apple will ramp up on lens quality what they've held back on MP's - there is just no historical evidence to support the idea that they will.

[mappyman]

I dont know why people want a more powerful cpu, the weakest link at the moment is user RAM. After springboard and the rest of the daemons are running we only have around 30MB to play with.

512MB RAM please apple. :apple:

[Sehnsucht]

I dont know why people want a more powerful cpu, the weakest link at the moment is user RAM. After springboard and the rest of the daemons are running we only have around 30MB to play with.

512MB RAM please apple. :apple:

Screw that, I want 1GB.

Hell, let's go crazy and throw in 2 GB. :D

[QCassidy352]

While it is true megapixels aren't the only value to measure a camera quality (sensor size, dinamic range, noise, etc), 5MP is the absolute minimum.

Um... why? Because you can't take good pictures with anything less? Nonesense. I had a 3.2 MP fuji digital camera in 2002 that took great pictures (even in comparison to pictures taken with more modern cameras). Other manufacturers have made people believe they need some particular number to take a good picture, and it's just nonsense.

r.e. cameras - 3.2 Mega pixels is fine, if they bring in a good lens and some kind of focus ability. My Sharp 903SH takes amazing photos and was made in 2005.

that's a really nice picture. :)

re: the front facing camera. I would have absolutely no use for it. If they could do it while keeping it very small and unobtrusive then I guess there's no harm, but I also see extremely little upside.

More RAM and a faster processor will be the things that make the most difference to my user experience. :)

[simulacra]

I'd like to see a higher res display, preferably 640 x 480, but still keep the 16.9 mil colors...

[koobcamuk]

that's a really nice picture. :)

That's awesome. :eek:

Impressive.


Thanks so much guys!

I wonder how the pic would look if you had moving students... ;)

Not as nice, I reckon :)

[funkdis]

That is so wrong on so many levels.

The reason you have to decrease the size in photoshop to make the photo sharper is because the camera is using aggressive noise reduction algorithms which do a good job of removing the noise but also removes details. When you resize the photo you aren't making it any "sharper". It just apears more sharp at the per pixel level. You aren't creating any more details. They are lost forever when the camera does the noise removal.

To get a sharper photo you want less noise reduction. To be able to use less noise reduction and get a photo with an acceptable amount of noise you want a sensor that is highly sensitive to light. The easiest way to do this is with large pixels. Large pixels are physically larger and therefore able to gather more photons (light) and less noise. Large pixels also mean fewer pixels if the sensor were the same size. This is why less is more in terms of pixels.

There is, as always, a but. If you compare the camera in the current Iphone which was launched in 2007. It is already very old. Newer camera sensors have better hardware which changes the analog signal each pixel generates into a digital signal (signal amplifier) and other hardware which removes noise even before it is turned into digital data. This is why an 8mp sensor has less noise than some 3mp sensors.

If you would make two camera phone-size sensors with the same technology, one with 3mp and one with 8mp then most likely the 3mp sensor will retain more detail than the 8mp one.


yes i agree with you, but find me a camera that has an an awesome sensor/lens. then i will change my mind.
for now the only option is to go big to compensate for lack of quality on most if not all phones.

I rather have less MP and a better sensor, but we all know that wont happen just yet. i guess we could all hope this is true with the new iphone 09.

[NYR99]

.

[RogueWarrior65]

Gimme an OLED display and I'll gladly buy a new one (mine is less than a year old).

[BlizzardBomb]

£30 a month with a decent amount of texts pretty please O2 and Apple. :)

[Coroe]

With all the new OLED-equipped toys spilling out of Japan I'm quite positive that there will be an OLED-screen in the upcoming iPhone. At least if Apple wishes to stay ahead of the crowd.

[Pomares]

Did I just see CDMA?

[surferfromuk]

Here's hoping they make room for one of these...


http://www.largan.com.tw/products_camera_en.htm#

[jav6454]

my thoughts exactly, I'm not seeing anything to make me that bothered about going for the recent o2 discount deal

Not mentioned were the facts that Infineon has a 7.2 Mbps chip out, and that Broadcom is about to or already has unveiled their 802.11n chip for wireless devices such as iPhone.

[iMacoo7]

I find some arguments tangible and others kind of obsolete to the bigger picture that I think most if not all of us keep forgetting.
Apple has just stepped into this mobile realm 2 years gone.
They do however innovate as time progresses on and they get the hang of what they are doing.
Example:
1st MBA- Excellent product but needed a few extras, 2nd MBA fixed allot of the things the 1st MBA was short on (Bigger HDD,Better Graphics chip, DDR3 ram)... I know that they have been making laptops and desktops for sometime now, but this is just an example of a product that Apple has introduced and has improved upon.
1st iPhone was more than suffice, but the complains about lack of , for a better choice of words, took its toll.
2nd iPhone, still innovative while lacking things that people wanted changed (better Camera, Front Facing camera,more storage space)
So now here we are for round 3 of the iPhones induction into the market with it's 3rd iPhone to arise.
Do we really believe that Apple will stick a larger sized MP camera within the phone without making sure that the lens is the best that they can get for the size that they need it?
The 1st two generations of iPhones do have an excellent camera for taking photos while out and about. I have had friends with cell phones with the higher megapixel taking the same exact photo as myself , and then all the photos being printed out and my photos being more crisp and vibrant than theirs.

There is a legitimate argument that if you want to take "excellent" photos , get a Digital SLR which I already own a Nikon D3X but do not want to lug it around with me all the time.I have several other cameras as well,but when that good shot comes at the spur of a moment, I find it easier to whip out my iPhone , if its not already within arms reach or to my ear and get the shot that I could have missed because I did not have a camera strapped to my waist or on my shoulder or in my hand.....
That being said, I welcome the camera with no worries.
What the main focus should be on is the memory as well as the processor chip within the iphone.
To be honest everything else is a plus, the real ticker is the backbone of the iPhone which is the RAM as well as the processor chip.

[ItsGavinC]

Sorry that's bollocks.

The photos my 3 year old N95 (5MP) are far far better than my current iPhone ones. Yes there is a megapixel myth, but it doesn't work lower down the scale like 2 > 3.2 > 5.


You, sir, should read the article. It clearly states that the perfect area between resolution and noise is 6MP, which means it also perfectly stated the same thing you just did.

[WoFat]

The pinheads whining that it doesn't yet contain a ten giga pixel camera or a time machine transporter need to change their diaper. Relying upon the iPhone to be a Swiss Army knife in lieu of more appropriate appliances is foolishness.

I could hammer a nail with a frozen 20# turkey but for best results I choose to use a hammer. Don't buy a Bugatti (or even visit the showroom) and then complain it can't haul as much gravel a pickup.

[*LTD*]

LOL, so many amazing things planned for the iPhone . . . such a great platform for development, and people are getting hung up over a the camera.

[MikeTheC]

What I want to know is how compatible/compliant will the new iPhones be with the efforts to standardize on one kind of charger?


TG Daily: Mobile phone makers announce universal charger standard (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41456/145/)
BoingBoing: European Commission demands a single, standard phone charger (http://boingboing.net/2009/02/15/european-commission.html)

[steve10172]

Will it be same Li-ion battery or new Zinc one.
Any one knows the difference?

[ericinboston]

All these threads about the camera. Sheeeeeez.

It's not an iCamera! It's a phone (granted with some bells and whistles).

I've been using my Razr *PHONE* for years and have only taken a few photos with it's 1megapixel camera...the photos, for A PHONE, aren't bad when on a computer. If Apple is going to introduce a 3.2MP camera as part of the iPhone, that's nice...not sure if **I** would ever use it enough to get rid of my wife's $159 digital camera (slimmer than the iPhone) or my sweet Sony 4MP camera from 2001 or even my new Sony DSLR.

I'm not a camera freak (yet we own numerous) but this thing is supposed to be an all-in-1 device (which is fine) and being that the case, not 1 thing is going to be super impressive. The upcoming iPhone will be a phone, camera, web surfer, iPod, and likely gaming system. Are you gonna complain that it doesn't render polygons fast enough for your game? :)

Take it easy on the camera sliver of this upcoming unit.

My big question....you ready?....here it comes....what is the darn price for it and will I ever be able to use it on Verizon or another non-AT&T network. No, I'm not talking about hacking the thing to death to make it work...I'm talking about ordering it online, showing up at my door, and ready to go on Verizon. But let's not get into the carrier discussion.

I like the iPhone for it's all-in-1 type gizmo...but I still use my PHONE as a phone.

-Eric

[iMacoo7]

LOL, so many amazing things planned for the iPhone . . . such a great platform for development, and people are getting hung up over a the camera.

Agreed,I think this signature sums it up the best ""If Jesus Himself came back to earth and turned water to wine, half of MacRumors would say 'meh, this is red. I wanted white.'"
I think we should be raving about the features Apple is implementing and trying to import into the iPhones hardware .
I honestly think that in the next year (2010) Apple will have the knowledge base that they are currently lacking, although I think that they might be almost there with this next release.
All we can do is speculate what is real and what is fake and what is wanted and what is needed....

[wackymacky]

Largan just make lenses, not sensors.

[fleshman03]

What I want to know is how compatible/compliant will the new iPhones be with the efforts to standardize on one kind of charger?


TG Daily: Mobile phone makers announce universal charger standard (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41456/145/)
BoingBoing: European Commission demands a single, standard phone charger (http://boingboing.net/2009/02/15/european-commission.html)


That will come just as soon as Apple puts firewire back, adds HDMI, BluRay to the MacBooks.

Not. Anytime. Soon.

I know it sucks and I disagree w/ it, but it's Apple we're talking about.

[adamgalas]

I can't understand all this talk about the camera. Its a very peripheral aspect of the Iphone.

I think a far better addition would be to upgrade the central hardware.

Right now the Iphone 3g runs a 620 MHz Mono Core ARM CPU with 128 MB of Ram and 8 or 16 GB of memory.

Its battery is a 1.4 AH Lithium Ion polymer that provides 7 hours video.

Its screen is 480*320 resolution with 163 PPI.

These 3 things need upgrades to improve the experience of every Iphone user, not just shutter bugs.

CPU: Duel Core CPU running 720 MHz would be great and allow multiple apps to be running simultaneously in the background.

256 MB of ram would double what we have now and be a requirement for apps to run in the background. Of course as some have pointed out Apple recently placed an order for 100 million 1 GB memory chips. If those chips where RAM memory then we could be seeing 1 GB of RAM which would be fantastic and really allow for parellel apps operation. Of course duel core CPU could only do 2 apps simultaneously, but with 1 GB of RAM and 720 MHz operating speed, even 4 or 8 apps would still run, just slowly.

Battery: 1.4 AH is ok, but the first gen Iphone had that, time for an upgrade. I have read that Ag/Zn batteries have 40% more run time over Li+ so that would certainly be the ticket. Of course the cost is higher so Apple is less likely to go with that option.

Perhaps the same battery supplier now offers a larger Li+ polymer battery. Personally I think 2 AH would be terrific.

Screen: I would love to see higher resolution than the current 480*320 but I don't expect 720 HD until the 4th gen. Also, a boost in PPI to say, 200 would be nice.

Most importantly an OLED screen could greatly increase battery life without a larger battery. As has been pointed out this is likely the route Apple will go.

Ideally, a larger battery+ OLED would be used to increase Video playback to something like 16 hours.

This would allow maximal brightness viewing for 8 hours.

Speaking of maximal brightness, as someone who commutes on the bus every day and watches tv shows on my Ipod Touch, I would love to see a brighter screen.

Finally, going back to peripheral hardware that few people use, I would love to see a louder and higher quality speaker.

I know that most people laughed at the speaker on the Ipod Touch but I have used it a lot to watch movies with friends and it is just not loud enough.

I know that the Iphone speaker is of higher quality and louder but with things like that you can't be too loud.

Thoughts?

[gcortega]

They're really spoiling us with a 3.2MP camera in 2009.

hahah! I completely agree...They tease us

[jamesnajera]

I don't know if this list tells us that. But wasn't there some rumor lately about Apple orders for cameras of two different megapixel sizes? I want to say 3.2 and 5.0? If so, the big one could be in back and the small one for iChat on the front.

It would be very cool to have higher quality on the main camera, PLUS a user-facing camera, AND have both cams support video recording, editing and live transmission. (Wishful thinking.)


I highly doubt Apple is going to put a 3.2MP camera just for iChat and 5MP for regular pictures. They would not stream 3.2MP video over 3G.

[bruinsrme]

OMG I just can't wait. I hope Steve introduces it, that will make just that much better

[=MuLti-CeLL=]

I can't understand all this talk about the camera. Its a very peripheral aspect of the Iphone.

I think a far better addition would be to upgrade the central hardware.

Right now the Iphone 3g runs a 620 MHz Mono Core ARM CPU with 128 MB of Ram and 8 or 16 GB of memory.

Its battery is a 1.4 AH Lithium Ion polymer that provides 7 hours video.

Its screen is 480*320 resolution with 163 PPI.

These 3 things need upgrades to improve the experience of every Iphone user, not just shutter bugs.

CPU: Duel Core CPU running 720 MHz would be great and allow multiple apps to be running simultaneously in the background.

256 MB of ram would double what we have now and be a requirement for apps to run in the background. Of course as some have pointed out Apple recently placed an order for 100 million 1 GB memory chips. If those chips where RAM memory then we could be seeing 1 GB of RAM which would be fantastic and really allow for parellel apps operation. Of course duel core CPU could only do 2 apps simultaneously, but with 1 GB of RAM and 720 MHz operating speed, even 4 or 8 apps would still run, just slowly.

Battery: 1.4 AH is ok, but the first gen Iphone had that, time for an upgrade. I have read that Ag/Zn batteries have 40% more run time over Li+ so that would certainly be the ticket. Of course the cost is higher so Apple is less likely to go with that option.

Perhaps the same battery supplier now offers a larger Li+ polymer battery. Personally I think 2 AH would be terrific.

Screen: I would love to see higher resolution than the current 480*320 but I don't expect 720 HD until the 4th gen. Also, a boost in PPI to say, 200 would be nice.

Most importantly an OLED screen could greatly increase battery life without a larger battery. As has been pointed out this is likely the route Apple will go.

Ideally, a larger battery+ OLED would be used to increase Video playback to something like 16 hours.

This would allow maximal brightness viewing for 8 hours.

Speaking of maximal brightness, as someone who commutes on the bus every day and watches tv shows on my Ipod Touch, I would love to see a brighter screen.

Finally, going back to peripheral hardware that few people use, I would love to see a louder and higher quality speaker.

I know that most people laughed at the speaker on the Ipod Touch but I have used it a lot to watch movies with friends and it is just not loud enough.

I know that the Iphone speaker is of higher quality and louder but with things like that you can't be too loud.

Thoughts?

I completely agree with everything you listed, especially the RAM. They could really keep the current processor, double up the RAM and give the processor a little more breathing room if you ask me.

Thanks for attempting to get back on topic, this thread turned into another MP argument discussion quick!

[genmic]

They could be switching back to aluminum and milling their own shells like they did the macbooks, and they just forgot to mention all the aluminum blocks they ordered. (I have no evidence of any of this, I would like it to happen though :D)

That sounds exactly right :D I hope...

[dante@sisna.com]

3.2 MP will be fine. No need for more unless you plan on printing posters. What we need is decent technology behind the lens for taking great pictures. Everyone is hung up on megapixels for some reason.

I completely agree with this.

My brother is a life-long professional photographer: he and I often discuss megapixels and how concerned everyone is with this one metric.

In a phone, with limited storage and limited bandwidth, 3.2mp -- maybe 4 or 5 at most -- is perfect. One gets the perfect balance of image resolution and the ability to both store, and quickly upload (email, sms, twitter) files in over edge, 3G, etc.

I would like to see a better lens and sensor as opposed to more MP.

[iMacoo7]

I can't understand all this talk about the camera. Its a very peripheral aspect of the Iphone.

I think a far better addition would be to upgrade the central hardware.

Right now the Iphone 3g runs a 620 MHz Mono Core ARM CPU with 128 MB of Ram and 8 or 16 GB of memory.

Its battery is a 1.4 AH Lithium Ion polymer that provides 7 hours video.

Its screen is 480*320 resolution with 163 PPI.

These 3 things need upgrades to improve the experience of every Iphone user, not just shutter bugs.

CPU: Duel Core CPU running 720 MHz would be great and allow multiple apps to be running simultaneously in the background.

256 MB of ram would double what we have now and be a requirement for apps to run in the background. Of course as some have pointed out Apple recently placed an order for 100 million 1 GB memory chips. If those chips where RAM memory then we could be seeing 1 GB of RAM which would be fantastic and really allow for parellel apps operation. Of course duel core CPU could only do 2 apps simultaneously, but with 1 GB of RAM and 720 MHz operating speed, even 4 or 8 apps would still run, just slowly.

Battery: 1.4 AH is ok, but the first gen Iphone had that, time for an upgrade. I have read that Ag/Zn batteries have 40% more run time over Li+ so that would certainly be the ticket. Of course the cost is higher so Apple is less likely to go with that option.

Perhaps the same battery supplier now offers a larger Li+ polymer battery. Personally I think 2 AH would be terrific.

Screen: I would love to see higher resolution than the current 480*320 but I don't expect 720 HD until the 4th gen. Also, a boost in PPI to say, 200 would be nice.

Most importantly an OLED screen could greatly increase battery life without a larger battery. As has been pointed out this is likely the route Apple will go.

Ideally, a larger battery+ OLED would be used to increase Video playback to something like 16 hours.

This would allow maximal brightness viewing for 8 hours.

Speaking of maximal brightness, as someone who commutes on the bus every day and watches tv shows on my Ipod Touch, I would love to see a brighter screen.

Finally, going back to peripheral hardware that few people use, I would love to see a louder and higher quality speaker.

I know that most people laughed at the speaker on the Ipod Touch but I have used it a lot to watch movies with friends and it is just not loud enough.

I know that the Iphone speaker is of higher quality and louder but with things like that you can't be too loud.

Thoughts?

Makes sense to me;)

[applecultvictim]

I hope the next iphone flies or at least gives us wings to. ;)

[muskratboy]

CPU: Duel Core CPU running 720 MHz would be great and allow multiple apps to be running simultaneously in the background.


out of your MIND, dude. they've said, over and over at this point, NO BACKGROUND PROCESSES.

but you'd sure have to have ALL of your battery saving concepts here (bigger battery, oled, etc.) to make that even REMOTELY possible.

dual core running at 720? so your phone would last about... 10 minutes? great idea, dude. i'm curious how your commute would go (with brighter screen, no less) with this new tech. what would you do for REST of your commute, after you kill your battery 15 minutes in?

[applecultvictim]

Speaking of maximal brightness, as someone who commutes on the bus every day and watches tv shows on my Ipod Touch, I would love to see a brighter screen.

Thoughts?

You should be reading on the bus instead if you want to have any brain cells when you get 50 or so. Just my 2 cents.:):apple:

[rush0]

I want aluminum back!

[7egend]

It's just one Camera, Largan Precision builds lenses for them. It would make no sense to order 2 different Camera sensors from 2 separate companies when you could get a larger discount by ordering multiples.

Common Sense and a Basic Search is your friend.

[oldwatery]

so exciting

Took the words right out of my mouth.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[steve10172]

It's just one Camera, Largan Precision builds lenses for them. It would make no sense to order 2 different Camera sensors from 2 separate companies when you could get a larger discount by ordering multiples.

Common Sense and a Basic Search is your friend.

Agree.
So far I can`t see any evidence of frony facing camera.

[stevejobbers]

I can't understand all this talk about the camera. Its a very peripheral aspect of the Iphone.

I think a far better addition would be to upgrade the central hardware.

Right now the Iphone 3g runs a 620 MHz Mono Core ARM CPU with 128 MB of Ram and 8 or 16 GB of memory.

Its battery is a 1.4 AH Lithium Ion polymer that provides 7 hours video.

Its screen is 480*320 resolution with 163 PPI.

These 3 things need upgrades to improve the experience of every Iphone user, not just shutter bugs.

CPU: Duel Core CPU running 720 MHz would be great and allow multiple apps to be running simultaneously in the background.

256 MB of ram would double what we have now and be a requirement for apps to run in the background. Of course as some have pointed out Apple recently placed an order for 100 million 1 GB memory chips. If those chips where RAM memory then we could be seeing 1 GB of RAM which would be fantastic and really allow for parellel apps operation. Of course duel core CPU could only do 2 apps simultaneously, but with 1 GB of RAM and 720 MHz operating speed, even 4 or 8 apps would still run, just slowly.

Battery: 1.4 AH is ok, but the first gen Iphone had that, time for an upgrade. I have read that Ag/Zn batteries have 40% more run time over Li+ so that would certainly be the ticket. Of course the cost is higher so Apple is less likely to go with that option.

Perhaps the same battery supplier now offers a larger Li+ polymer battery. Personally I think 2 AH would be terrific.

Screen: I would love to see higher resolution than the current 480*320 but I don't expect 720 HD until the 4th gen. Also, a boost in PPI to say, 200 would be nice.

Most importantly an OLED screen could greatly increase battery life without a larger battery. As has been pointed out this is likely the route Apple will go.

Ideally, a larger battery+ OLED would be used to increase Video playback to something like 16 hours.

This would allow maximal brightness viewing for 8 hours.

Speaking of maximal brightness, as someone who commutes on the bus every day and watches tv shows on my Ipod Touch, I would love to see a brighter screen.

Finally, going back to peripheral hardware that few people use, I would love to see a louder and higher quality speaker.

I know that most people laughed at the speaker on the Ipod Touch but I have used it a lot to watch movies with friends and it is just not loud enough.

I know that the Iphone speaker is of higher quality and louder but with things like that you can't be too loud.

Thoughts?

have you ever used a computer before? you do realize that cores do not map 1 to 1 with applications, right? you can have 50+ applications running on a computer, simultaneously, one a single core. processors are intelligent enough to divide their time to present a simultaneous experience to the user.

[rtdunham]

Does it? I think the OmniVision is just making the sensor while Largan Precision is making the lens.

Largan's a lens company, as you guessed. From Largan Precision's home page, this chronology of the company's efforts:

2002 Mass production on VGA lens for mobile phone/ Mass production on 3.0 Megapixels digital camera lens.

2003 Develop 3x Zoom lens for digital camber/develop 1.3 Megapixels mobile phone lens.

2004 Develop 2.0 Megapixels mobile phone AF (Auto Focus) lens.
2005 Develop 3.0 Megapixels mobile phone AF (Auto Focus) lens.

more recently, it's opened a new factory.

[R3tard]

So what is on this list ( besides a 3.2 mega pixel camera ) that would make me go out and upgrade my current 3G iPhone?

Am I missing something? I've read a lot of "can't wait until this is on the phone." But I'm not seeing where the hardware is matching up with the wish lists.

This is a serious question.

[utahnguy]

did anyone notice that the gps is now an a-gps which is an assisted gps so no more real gps some one correct me if this is wrong

Number 1: The current 3G iPhone uses A-GPS. Number 2: A-GPS is far superior to standard GPS as it's able to use tower triangulation along with GPS satellites to acquire your position. If triangulation isn't available then it will act just like any other standard GPS-only device.

The main reason you haven't seen a legit turn-by-turn app for the iPhone is because 2.x doesn't fully support it. When 3.0 is dropped you can expect full on GPS navigation as reported in the 3.0 keynote.

And as far as my opinion goes about this info, keep in mind that people in the stock trading biz have a LOT to gain by downplaying Apple as much as possible and helping spread any kind of info that might lower people's expectations. If they can drop the price as much as possible before the next-gen phone is released, they can make that much more money when it comes out and blows everyone away. I think this is why ol Steve has never really liked the market.

[Brien]

I don't care what they do under the hood as long as the battery life is significantly improved. The form factor of the phone is fine as-is.

[rtdunham]

I wonder how the pic would look if you had moving students... ;)

you can't see them? look closely between the third and fourth rows of seats. It's blurred, but it's there. With a better lens, the three kids would be clearly seen.

[rtdunham]

... I had a 3.2 MP fuji digital camera in 2002 that took great pictures (even in comparison to pictures taken with more modern cameras). Other manufacturers have made people believe they need some particular number to take a good picture, and it's just nonsense....

it's like the CPU-MHz race, which mfgrs have moved away from after persuading almost all of us that bigger was better. Like you, i had one of the canon SD digital cameras back in the day, 3MP, and the pictures were fantastic.

I wonder why with all the iPhone disassembly exercises we've seen, no one has specified the sensor size? Or did i miss that?

[adamgalas]

First of all, let me clarify my statement about a duel core running 2 programs simultaneously. I don't mean you can only have 2 programs open at once.

Each core can do 1 operation at a time. If 50 programs are open the computer will do a little bit of program 1, stop do a little of program 2 stop, move on to program 3 and so on.

It only appears as if your computer is doing things simultaneously because it is operating at such blinding speed.

For example, if you are running 3 programs at once on a home computer that operates at over 2 Ghz you can't tell that its not running all 3 programs simultaneously.

BUT try opening 50 programs and you will see a signifigant slow down because the computer must divide its time amoungst so many programs.

Multi core means that you can run true parellel operations. So, a quad core can run 4 programs simultaneously, without being slowed down by need to keep switching amoung programs. Could you run 50 programs? Sure, and it would be 4 times faster than on a single core computer that was also running 50 programs.

Of course with all those cores you need a lot of RAM, but lucky for us, memory of all kind keeps getting cheaper and more plentiful.

As for Apple never allowing background apps.

Rumors abound on this website that background processes could be part of OS 3.0.

http://www.iphonealley.com/news/background-processes-coming-in-30-iphone-software

http://digg.com/d1hZ7q

Here's a link to an article about a quad core Iphone.

As for the CPU speeding up, the 620 MHz chip now in use was also there for gen 1. At some point they will upgrade it to a faster chip.

As for multi-core useing more energy, I don't know about that. ARM has the Cortex A-9 specifically designed for smart phones. If a quad core CPU destroyed battery life then would anyone be useing it?

Even if multi core did suck more juice, lets not forget that better electronics in accordance with OLED screen will double or even triple battery life on the same battery.

Through in a Silver Zinc battery that extends battery life 40% over current Lithium Ion and you have 4 times the battery life of today's Iphone.

This kind of energy storage+ efficiency opens up a lot of options for apple.

They could offer an Iphone with 28 hours of Video, but it wouldn't be any better than today's model and it would allow people to own their Iphone for a decade without replacing it due to a dying battery.

They could go Duel core for at least twice the battery life, mixing 14 hours video with parellel application ability.

Or stick with 7 hours of video with a quad core and all the abilities that go with that.

Of course that is assuming that multiple cores multiply the power drain which I am not sure about.

One thing I do know is that Apple has said that the Iphone will be turned into a world class gaming platform.

Already game designers are beginning to develop games around multi-core platforms such as the PS3, (octacore) and the X-box 360, (tri core).

Half Life 2, for example, will be specfically designed for Octacore operation.

If apple is serious about making the Iphone/Touch a gameing platform they will need to go Multi-core, (a quadcore Iphone would be able to provide better gaming than a PSP)

And if that means ever better batteries are needed, well so be it.

Researchers at Stanford have discovered that by useing nano-silicon wires in the cathode of lithium ion batteries they can store 10X as much energy as before. The techniques to make these nano-silicon wires can quickly be adapted by the existing silicon electronics industry, so we will be seeing these super batteries soon.

Thus by 2015 it should be possible to combine more efficient electronics with OLED and these Super Lithium batteries from Stanford to allow for a 30X fold increase in battery life.

Since the utility of 210 hours of video is limited, the extra battery life can be rerouted to running faster chips on multicore CPUs.

[sero]

5 million units. Is that in-line with a global release, or only select markets?

[Ridly]

This should be solar powered.

[BlizzardBomb]

This should be solar powered.

Maybe not solar powered but chargeable via solar or assisted by solar would be nice providing it doesn't add too much bulk. That said, solar is a bit too expensive and not really wanted by many people on a phone right now.

[zombitronic]

So what is on this list ( besides a 3.2 mega pixel camera ) that would make me go out and upgrade my current 3G iPhone?

Am I missing something? I've read a lot of "can't wait until this is on the phone." But I'm not seeing where the hardware is matching up with the wish lists.

This is a serious question.

You're not missing anything. Nothing here is worth an upgrade, although a lot of people are getting stimulated about the camera.

If you want to know the real reason to upgrade, ditch this thread and check out these two previous threads:

Video-In and Magnetometers Could Introduce Interesting iPhone App Possibilites (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/08/video-in-and-magnetometers-could-introduce-interesting-iphone-app-possibilites/)

iPhone Video Recording Interface, Digital Compass, Voice Control and Auto-Focus Camera (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/07/iphone-video-recording-interface-digital-compass-voice-control-and-auto-focus-camera/)

The digital compass (magnetometer) is the real reason to upgrade. The 3G and original can still take pictures, however, they won't be able to touch what's in store for the new model, in terms of AR apps.

iPhone AR (Augmented Reality) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=681753)

[jons]

I just think it's bizarre they're not offering a higher mega pixel camera. I think with the iphone they have actually just been holding back on certain features so we all want to upgrade to each new model. Probably the only reason people will upgrade is for video/higher pixel and surely they could have offered that on the first 3G phone. :(

I will definitely not be upgrading if that's all there is to the upgrade. Actually unless it's a bit faster, and has an FM transmitter, there isn't anything temping in the update for me at all.

[zombitronic]

This should be solar powered.

Maybe not solar powered but chargeable via solar or assisted by solar would be nice providing it doesn't add too much bulk. That said, solar is a bit too expensive and not really wanted by many people on a phone right now.

This may be closer to reality than you think.

Solar LCD Powered iPods, iPhones and Laptops? (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/26/solar-lcd-powered-ipods-iphones-and-laptops/)

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/05/26/022306-solarcells_400.png

Patent Application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080094025&OS=20080094025&RS=20080094025)

[paja]

I will definitely not be upgrading if that's all there is to the upgrade. Actually unless it's a bit faster, and has an FM transmitter, there isn't anything temping in the update for me at all.

I agree, there is nothing that I see listed that gets me exited about upgrading.

I was really hoping that there would be.

Let's see what else they have up their sleeve.... netBook or Tablet perhaps.

[zombitronic]

I will definitely not be upgrading if that's all there is to the upgrade. Actually unless it's a bit faster, and has an FM transmitter, there isn't anything temping in the update for me at all.

I agree, there is nothing that I see listed that gets me exited about upgrading.

I was really hoping that there would be.

Let's see what else they have up their sleeve.... netBook or Tablet perhaps.

Guys, as Voidness pointed out to me:

This is obviously an incomplete list. No mention of CPU, screen, battery, enclosure, accelerometer, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, vibrator, etc.

I'm also hoping for a magnetometer. A lot of interesting applications can be developed for it. :)

Again, check out some very recent threads to see what may be in store:

802.11n (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/05/next-gen-iphone-802-11n-and-video-editing/)

FM Reception/Transmission (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/06/next-generation-iphone-to-possibly-offer-fm-radio-reception-and-transmission/)

Video Recording, Digital Compass, Voice Control, Auto-Focus (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/07/iphone-video-recording-interface-digital-compass-voice-control-and-auto-focus-camera/)

Augmented Reality Apps (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/08/video-in-and-magnetometers-could-introduce-interesting-iphone-app-possibilites/)

If any of this is true, there's definitely a reason to upgrade.

[Mad Mac Maniac]

this is by no means a completed list and shouldn't be treated as such.

In addition to the better camera the new iphone will have a magnetometer, 32GB and the ability to record videos. These things are virtually guarenteed. Also I have heard talking about faster wifi speeds and a faster processor speed. In addition to this, who knows what else apple has up their sleeves.

You can rest assured that Apple will make an iphone which causes all us simple minded 3G-ers out there to run out, break our contracts, and buy the new iphone.

But not I. I shall hold strong! Summer of twenty-ten bring my iphone dreams to a reality!!! :)

Edit: You beat me! haha. Oh and good catch about the fm transmitter. I almost forgot about that

[Compile 'em all]

this is by no means a completed list and shouldn't be treated as such.

In addition to the better camera the new iphone will have a magnetometer, 32GB and the ability to record videos. These things are virtually guarenteed. Also I have heard talking about faster wifi speeds and a faster processor speed.

You heard talking?

it was literally all over the news :confused:

[Petje]

Does anyone understand what the SAW filter is for?

I only know Surface Acoustic Wave for touchscreens but I thought the iPhone has a capacitive touchscreen, or doesn't it?

[fenderbass146]

did anyone notice that the gps is now an a-gps which is an assisted gps so no more real gps some one correct me if this is wrong

the iphone right now is a-gps not gps

[zombitronic]

Does anyone understand what the SAW filter is for?

I only know Surface Acoustic Wave for touchscreens but I thought the iPhone has a capacitive touchscreen, or doesn't it?

SAW filters

SAW (surface acoustic wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_acoustic_wave)) filters are electromechanical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromechanical) devices commonly used in radio frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency) applications. Electrical signals are converted to a mechanical wave in a device constructed of a piezoelectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric) crystal or ceramic; this wave is delayed as it propagates across the device, before being converted back to an electrical signal by further electrodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode). The delayed outputs are recombined to produce a direct analog implementation of a finite impulse response (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_impulse_response) filter. This hybrid filtering technique is also found in an analog sampled filter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_sampled_filter). SAW filters are limited to frequencies up to 3 GHz.

It's a type of electronic filter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_filter) technology.

Electronic filters are electronic circuits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_circuit) which perform signal processing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing) functions, specifically to remove unwanted frequency components from the signal and/or to enhance wanted ones.

[Blue Fox]

The camera I could really care less about (I have digital camera for that). 3.2 would be a slight upgrade, but nothing that's going to make me go out and replace my current iPhone 3G.

I'm kind of "hoping" that the new iPhone is only just a "slight" to the current 3G, not enough to warrant me upgrading my current iPhone a year into my AT&T contract. It would be nice (for me) that a whole new, "beat-the-hell-out-of-the-current-3G-iPhone" iPhone would be released June 2010. :D

[zombitronic]

The camera I could really care less about (I have digital camera for that). 3.2 would be a slight upgrade, but nothing that's going to make me go out and replace my current iPhone 3G.

I'm kind of "hoping" that the new iPhone is only just a "slight" to the current 3G, not enough to warrant me upgrading my current iPhone a year into my AT&T contract. It would be nice (for me) that a whole new, "beat-the-hell-out-of-the-current-3G-iPhone" iPhone would be released June 2010. :D

All of us day-one iPhone classic users beg to differ. Our contracts are up on June 29 and we can't wait to get a "beat-the-hell-out-of-the-current-3G-iPhone" right now. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll release a "beat-the-hell-out-of-the-2009-iPhone" in 2010.

[Mazer23]

I wonder if its the same shell, i was kind of hoping for a new shell, a different look.

There was a story a while back that was supposed to be a spy shot of the new case. It looked like halfway between aluminum and plastic (not as shiny) maybe even some kind of graphite alloy. It also looked like they were using the unibody production technique. I think that would be pretty cool, some kind of ceramic or graphite material so radio still goes through it but a little higher quality and stronger than plastic.

[asphyxiafeeling]

people who thought that there was going to be a 5.0MP camera just had too-high-in-the-sky-pie expectations. i'll see it the same day they put a dedicated GPU in the macbook line.

[Petje]

SAW filters

SAW (surface acoustic wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_acoustic_wave)) filters are electromechanical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromechanical) devices commonly used in radio frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency) applications. Electrical signals are converted to a mechanical wave in a device constructed of a piezoelectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric) crystal or ceramic; this wave is delayed as it propagates across the device, before being converted back to an electrical signal by further electrodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode). The delayed outputs are recombined to produce a direct analog implementation of a finite impulse response (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_impulse_response) filter. This hybrid filtering technique is also found in an analog sampled filter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_sampled_filter). SAW filters are limited to frequencies up to 3 GHz.

It's a type of electronic filter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_filter) technology.

Electronic filters are electronic circuits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_circuit) which perform signal processing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing) functions, specifically to remove unwanted frequency components from the signal and/or to enhance wanted ones.

Nice quote from wiki explaining the technology but do you also know what it is used for in the iPhone?
I only know SAW-technology for making touchscreens (also implementing the piezo technology as described in wiki) but I don't think that is what it is used for.

[kk1ro]

people who thought that there was going to be a 5.0MP camera just had too-high-in-the-sky-pie expectations. i'll see it the same day they put a dedicated GPU in the macbook line.

I seriously thought that the 3.2MP sensor would be for the iPod Touch 3rd Gen and the 5MP sensor would be for the iPhone 3rd Gen. That would be really sweet for us Touch users.
And I'm still kinda clinging to that thought.
Seeing as these are still just rumours, I'm hoping to be dazzled by [insert name]'s keynote on WWDC '09.

[flottenheimer]

Bring it on. I'm ready to buy.

[Aqueus]

Constructive input.


Seriously though, 3.2MP will be fine as long as the lens etc is good enough. If it can takes pictures like that chap's Sharp phone, it'll be great.

I'd really like to hear some info about battery life, and the casing of the phone itself.

Yeah it is constructive.. 3.2MP would be yet another let down.. Might need to ask some of the slaves who are making it about the other parts.. Everything else is rumours

[twitt3r]

Why are you lot still arguing about megapixels? 3.2 is AMPLE for anything viewed on screen, and even prints fine up to A4. The only reason you need more pixels is if you want the latent detail there if/when want to zoom in and blow up parts of the image. Other than that, it's the lenses and quality of the optics that govern the image quality.

[twitt3r]

The camera I could really care less about (I have digital camera for that). 3.2 would be a slight upgrade, but nothing that's going to make me go out and replace my current iPhone 3G.

I'm kind of "hoping" that the new iPhone is only just a "slight" to the current 3G, not enough to warrant me upgrading my current iPhone a year into my AT&T contract. It would be nice (for me) that a whole new, "beat-the-hell-out-of-the-current-3G-iPhone" iPhone would be released June 2010. :D
Right, and for the rest of us, I really do hope that your selfishness is rewarded with a great new phone in 2009 that you are pathetically jealous of.

[zombitronic]

Nice quote from wiki explaining the technology but do you also know what it is used for in the iPhone?
I only know SAW-technology for making touchscreens (also implementing the piezo technology as described in wiki) but I don't think that is what it is used for.

I'm not exactly sure, but my guess would be that it's used to cut out unwanted wireless noise (both audible and data). Maybe more specifically to analyze, interpret and manipulate digital signals into recognizable sound or images.

[faisal]

people who thought that there was going to be a 5.0MP camera just had too-high-in-the-sky-pie expectations.

Yes, it *is* too much to ask for Apple's high end phone to be competitive with a now-discontinued two year old Nokia.

Although really they need to worry about the picture quality (guessing a lens issue) rather than just pixel count. I just don't see a huge demand for a higher density smudge.

[scottness]

Did I just see CDMA?

no

[michael.lauden]

i wonder if someone could put together a source list with all of these companies and put together a price list.


if i see a thread saying the next iPhone contains 23$ worth of parts i will be disappointed haha

[swagi]

3.2 MP will be good if its a GOOD 3.2 MP sensor and lens. A good 3.2 MP would blow away the average 5 MP that you see in cell phones.

As the typical Jesus-Phone-lovers arrogance crowd has glanced in here, let me show you some actual, real life pix of competitors:

----

Sony Ericsson C905

Gallery (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/camPhotos.php?uid=1481)

Shot (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/voteUserPicture.php?uid=2092)

----

LG KC910

Gallery (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/camPhotos.php?uid=1523)

Shot (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/voteUserPicture.php?uid=2170)

----

Samsung S8300

Shot (http://img.areamobile.de/images/tests/samsung/S8300-Test/Orig/Samsung-S8300-alex-orig.jpg)

----

I know, that it's not about the pixels. I know it has an awful lot to do with the lens, the picturing algorithms and so on...but...

Don't try to argue down the issue, that a 3.2 MP camera is stoneage compared to the rest. Just like the 2 MP camera was 2 years ago.

And there was absolutely no need for those 'Facepalm' posts IMO.

[joemama]

7 pages in and no one has mentioned the Nike Plus sensor.

Does anyone know if the new iPhone will have this built in like the touch? I mean, if it doesn't, you're stuck using a different iPod to track your miles.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Doesn't anyone want the sensor built in??

[mikeinternet]

Does this imply 1 camera or could they simply use one sensor to work with 2 lenses? Then just double the order of lenses.

Aside from that. If we are only talking about a better camera and the obvious more space/battery, I'm sticking with my 1st gen.

[alexbates]

7 pages in and no one has mentioned the Nike Plus sensor.

Does anyone know if the new iPhone will have this built in like the touch? I mean, if it doesn't, you're stuck using a different iPod to track your miles.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Doesn't anyone want the sensor built in??

It would make sense if the sensor was built in in the next gen iPhone. There's not much that Apple would have only in the iPod touch but not in the iPhone.

And the iPhone is big enough as it is. I wonder how it would feel if you tried running with an iPhone and the Nike Plus adapter... Not very comfortable.

[djjclark]

Nice quote from wiki explaining the technology but do you also know what it is used for in the iPhone?
I only know SAW-technology for making touchscreens (also implementing the piezo technology as described in wiki) but I don't think that is what it is used for.

SAW is all about filtering the RF spectrum to the frequencies you want to receive in as small of a package as possible. In cell phones they are generally used as bandpass filters with a center frequency dependent on you tech (gsm, cdma, etc) and your market. This filtering is to reduce the noise entering the receiver.

[Billy Boo Bob]

I'd like to see another button added to the side (below the volume up/down, perhaps) that could be programmed to be the camera snap. Using the on screen button is not real intuitive and I think it is a cause of most of my blurred iPhone pictures (not that I've taken a lot). Can't count how many (of the few) times I hit the home button instead of the snap virtual button when trying to take a pic in a hurry.

And it could be used by other developers for their own purposes. Just one is all that would be needed. I'm not looking for a slew of 4 or 5 buttons on each side.

I often use my phone in my car stereo by way of cable from headphone jack to aux-in jack on the stereo. With the phone sitting in the console tray it would be nice to be able use a button like that in the same way as the headphone button (pause/play and skip).

[syclick]

With all the new OLED-equipped toys spilling out of Japan I'm quite positive that there will be an OLED-screen in the upcoming iPhone. At least if Apple wishes to stay ahead of the crowd.

The possibility of an OLED display is one of the reasons I'm holding out for a new iPhone. Not the main reason, mind you - that would be a capacity upgrade to at least 32GB. And it's not a dealbreaker, either, just something I would love to see on an iPhone.

Thing is, how would having an OLED display affect outdoor visibility? Have they made any strides in that area?

[randfee2]

nobody cares about megapixels, as long as they get rid of the fixed-focus lens and replace it by an autofocus system!!!

if they don't I won't get a new one!!! currently 1st gen.

[johnsy]

interesting, so refresh will be better than previous 2 gen?

[B1gMac]

Did anybody just notice that this is the first post, ever to say arn's name is Arnold Kim? I knew his name from the NYTimes article, but he would still refer to himself as arn...

I wonder what spurred the change?

[JensenJJ]

Did I just see CDMA?

You migth have. But not in this article.
It saids WCDMA
And if you read first page of this discussion you will know what that is.
But to summon it up, then it's a tecnoligi that is used in both 3G and CDMA.

[MikeTheC]

You migth have. But not in this article.
It saids WCDMA
And if you read first page of this discussion you will know what that is.
But to summon it up, then it's a tecnoligi that is used in both 3G and CDMA.
Wonder if it would be usable on the CDMA networks we have here in the U.S....

[iMaggot]

I'm not going to buy the "NEW" iPhone, but man i cant wait to see it :)

[doug in albq]

the current 620mhz CPU in the iPhone & iPod Touch is underclocked.

it is set at 523 mhz in the 2G iPod Touch and
it is set at 412 mhz in the 2G iPhone.

All you have to do is turn up the current Samsung ARM processor, but then there goes battery life...

[DanBa]

the current 620mhz CPU in the iPhone & iPod Touch is underclocked.

it is set at 523 mhz in the 2G iPod Touch and
it is set at 412 mhz in the 2G iPhone.

All you have to do is turn up the current Samsung ARM processor, but then there goes battery life...
What do you mean by "2G iPhone"?
2G iPhone = iPhone 3G?

[Outragexl10]

if you look at both the cameras from both companies... you get one company that makes straight cameras for cell phones up to 2 mega pixels and the other that makes higher...

http://www.largan.com.tw/products_cellphone_en.htm

i say this would be the front camera for video streams...

[GregA]

Wonder if it would be usable on the CDMA networks we have here in the U.S....

I know you quoted a person saying what I'm about to say, but you missed the importance of what they said.

edit: Suffice to say - there are basically 2 networks
1) CDMA / CDMA2000
2) GSM / UMTS / WCDMA
They are not compatible.

edit: Yeah.. the below isn't very clear is it. Please ignore.
The phone supports WCDMA, and as such it is usable on the UMTS 3G like AT&T has (aka WCDMA). Same as the current iPhone 3G uses WCDMA.

For the sake of this discussion - WCDMA is an entirely different system to CDMA. AT&T's UMTS 3G network uses CDMA transmission technology (specifically Wideband CDMA)...

[JensenJJ]

Wonder if it would be usable on the CDMA networks we have here in the U.S....

Well I haven seen any CDMA or CDMA2000 chips that is suppost to be uses in the next iPhone.
So I guess no.

Also remember WCDMA is a bad named becouse people think it is CDMA or CDMA2000

GSM, 3G and CDMA, CDMA2000 are still two differen systems.
one of the communication tectoligi used in both 3G and CDMA2000 is called WCDMA

very bad way to look at it is ie. 3G = Mac, and CDMA2000 = PC.
WCDMA is a codec to play MP3 files.
even if both machines can play MP3 files. you can not run a Mac program on a PC, and a PC program on a Mac (native anyway)

[ericinboston]

This may be closer to reality than you think.

Solar LCD Powered iPods, iPhones and Laptops? (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/05/26/solar-lcd-powered-ipods-iphones-and-laptops/)

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/05/26/022306-solarcells_400.png

Patent Application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080094025&OS=20080094025&RS=20080094025)

I would have to agree with many...there should be more solar technology on Apple's complete line of iPhones and iPods...it certainly does not have to be the main power source but with more and more devices being solid state and thus requiring (typically) less power, nobody can figure out how to plop on a few solar cells? Or include a small solar "pack" that you plug into the iPhone via USB or its power plug so you can get a free charge? Seriously. I know people aren't going to leave their $399 devices out in the sun for 5 hours unattended but what about all the times that you can be with the device in the sun such as at the beach or walking down the street or sitting on a bus/car getting sun? Or heck, just leave the thing on your car dashboard while you grab lunch for an hour.

I would like to point out that solar cells have been on calculators since the very early 80s. Granted calculators (then and now) don't compare to an iPhone in power consumption but come on...30 years hasn't improved solar cells' ability by 5 or 10 fold? Even 100 fold? :) But I would gather the flash based iPods use much less power than the iPhone.

Make 1/3 the back of the iPhone a solar cell/array that slowly (or quickly) charges the unit.

-Eric

[gogoman]

Any word on whether there will be a nice bright OLED screen on the new model?

[Rarney22]

I don't know if this list tells us that. But wasn't there some rumor lately about Apple orders for cameras of two different megapixel sizes? I want to say 3.2 and 5.0? If so, the big one could be in back and the small one for iChat on the front.

It would be very cool to have higher quality on the main camera, PLUS a user-facing camera, AND have both cams support video recording, editing and live transmission. (Wishful thinking.)

One of the articles a few days ago said the 5 megapixel camera they were ordering was for a future product, possibly a tablet? The list seems to have 1 lens and 1 sensor which would equal 1 camera.

[Johnny2009]

I did read Apple is making a China version of the Iphone, so maybe that is the one that will have the 3.2MP camera and the US version will have the 5MP. Everyone says MP dont matter, but i bet most people would buy the higher MP version if given a choice between the two, also Sony-Ericsson, LG and Samsung are all introducing 12MP camera phones this year. Granted, its all marketing but they do need to keep up in the spec wars, especially in the cell phone industry where all these other manufacturers are pumping out new phones every 3 to 6 months.

[vipergts2207]

I did read Apple is making a China version of the Iphone, so maybe that is the one that will have the 3.2MP camera and the US version will have the 5MP. Everyone says MP dont matter, but i bet most people would buy the higher MP version if given a choice between the two, also Sony-Ericsson, LG and Samsung are all introducing 12MP camera phones this year. Granted, its all marketing but they do need to keep up in the spec wars, especially in the cell phone industry where all these other manufacturers are pumping out new phones every 3 to 6 months.

Should they keep up in these "spec wars" if it makes their phone worse?

[chrisPA]

As the typical Jesus-Phone-lovers arrogance crowd has glanced in here, let me show you some actual, real life pix of competitors:

----

Sony Ericsson C905

----

LG KC910

----

Samsung S8300

----

I know, that it's not about the pixels. I know it has an awful lot to do with the lens, the picturing algorithms and so on...but...

Don't try to argue down the issue, that a 3.2 MP camera is stoneage compared to the rest. Just like the 2 MP camera was 2 years ago.

And there was absolutely no need for those 'Facepalm' posts IMO.

I'm not sure the resolution of any of those cameras, but all of those pics look pretty lousy to me. If they're 8, 9, 10Mpix, they certainly bolster the argument that optics, processing, etc. make the image, not the resolution. Honestly, they don't seem as good as an old (very old) 2M pixel point and shoot...

[swagi]

I'm not sure the resolution of any of those cameras, but all of those pics look pretty lousy to me. If they're 8, 9, 10Mpix, they certainly bolster the argument that optics, processing, etc. make the image, not the resolution. Honestly, they don't seem as good as an old (very old) 2M pixel point and shoot...

AFAIK they are all 8 MP. And calling them lousy is...well...maybe something in the eye of the beholder.

They sure don't stack up to pix using a camera, but for a mobile handset they are quite good. And I don't know, if they have been retouched in any kind.

But personally I think that the amount of detail compared with the little noise in the overall picture is impressing.

Maybe check out the dirt on this car taken with a Samsung INNOV8 :D

Shot (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/voteUserPicture.php?uid=2116)

And I think they stack up pretty good against this one taken with an iPhone 3G (http://www.areamobile.de/php/pages/voteUserPicture.php?uid=2119)

[doug in albq]

What do you mean by "2G iPhone"?
2G iPhone = iPhone 3G?

i mean "second generation"-the current generation for both the iPod Touch and the iPhone.

[DanBa]

Thanks!