Mac OS X 10.3.4 Build 7H41

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx1034.html) on the release of Mac OS X 10.3.4 Build 7H41 to developers.

The latest Panther update offers minor changes and fixes.

[numediaman]

I don't know if this deserves Page Two status -- though I don't think anyone is very excited about this. I thought 10.3.3 would bring us new G5s. Maybe the release of this update will proceed a G5 PM update.

[DrGruv1]

I was hoping that the Core Audio improvements meant that Logic 7 was coming...

Still Looking...

People have said that apple was going to release a pro tools killer...

WHEN? :)

[crees!]

I don't know if this deserves Page Two status -- though I don't think anyone is very excited about this. I thought 10.3.3 would bring us new G5s. Maybe the release of this update will proceed a G5 PM update.

Just hold your horses till WWDC then you'll see PM updates.

[ingenious]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

[bousozoku]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

It will be impossible to fix all of the bugs in any significant software. Now, if they can squish most of the big ones and relegate the small ones to the background, that would be good.

I've seen one kernel panic since 10.3.3 and a lot of cleanup but it's been reasonably stable for me.

[ij3ffy]

I think thats good news. A lot of people slam OS X developement because of the number of updates, and some feel that they "Rush" out OS X therefore requiring multiple updates to resolve problems. But I look at it as a constant work in progress, always being refined and polished.

[oldschool]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

i didn't know people thought it was less stable...i've found it many times more stable than jaguar...but thats just my experience.

it could also have to do with my upgrading my RAM about the time panther came out...

[kenaustus]

The interesting thing to me is that Apple is able to continually develop OS X with major upgrades on close to an annual basis and continual tweaks during the year. Sure, the annual upgrades cost $129 - which I'm happy to pay - but the tweaks are free. How can they keep this up when MS is flopping around year after year with Longhorn?

Keep it up Apple - you're the only one delivering significant upgrades on a continual basis!

[iChan]

nothing major.

[arn]

- Application Compatibility

This update includes a fix that may result in a performance gain in launching applications that aren't prebound. Please test your applications to make surethat they still launch properly. If you crash during launch please file a radar with the Crash Report, do not click the submit to Apple button only.

- Device Compatibility

We have taken a small number of changes that may impact devices (SCSI drives, USB Flash Media, TWAIN scanners, iPods & some PC Cards). Some additional devices include Audio FireWire and connecting an iPod via USB 2.0. - Other major areas of change:Core OS, Graphics, OpenGL, Core Audio, High Level Toolbox.

Known Issues

On certain machines, Quartz Extreme may be disable which causes problems with DVD playback, etc.- Some tables may not render correctly in Safari - Holding down a Dock icon to display 'Show In Finder' may cause a redrawproblem - Clicking on Modems in System Profiler may cause a crash- Display resolution is not maintained between logins

[dstorey]

I wonder if this will fix my problem where the menulets keep removing themselves...most annoying as it means i don't have a clock, and most of all the battery runs out without the warning. Its not done it today yet though...touch wood. Also the problem where finder beach balls and freezes when copying anything to a webDAV mount.

[IthinkIgaveuHIV]

An update to Mac OS 10.3.4 means what, security? Expose?

Sorry, I'm new to the Mac world. :rolleyes:

[mklos]

An update to Mac OS 10.3.4 means what, security? Expose?

Sorry, I'm new to the Mac world. :rolleyes:

Its just a general update to Mac OS X.3. If haven't noticed the latest version of Mac OS X is Mac OS X.3.3. I guess you could think of it as kinda like a service pack if you wanted to compare it to the Windows side if that helps. It will usually include fixes to bugs, or sometimes it even has system changes like this previous update did with the Networking part of OS X. This is something that you don't see on a regular basis on the Windows side. So that could be the reason why people sometimes bash Apple for releasing too many updates. I think its a good thing because Apple has to keep moving forward with everything they do. Its not like Apple releases an OS X update every 30 days. Its more like every 60 or 90 days. This just shows that they are dedicated to continuously having the best OS out there making it better. The OS X.3.3 update Apple did a very good job of getting the bugs out of the update and improving the bugs already part of OS X so hopefully they will do the same and not release it until this update has been fully beta tested out.

[MacFan25]

Maybe the release of this update will proceed a G5 PM update.
That's quite possible, and I'm sure you aren't the only one speculating this. But if this is the first build of 10.3.4, then the final version of it probably won't be released for several weeks.

[PlaceofDis]

ive heard a lot of complaining about bugs in Panther, but knock on wood i have yet to experience any so far.....i think it is much better than Jaguar, but thats just my sense of things....if i had bugs i would be rather peeved/vexed about it....hopefully we will get some fixes

[titaniumducky]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

Really? I've never gotten a kernel panic.

[rjwill246]

In the last week, the computer got stuck at the grey screen with the spinning cog-wheel and got no further. Rebooted with no problems. Two days later on clicking on a menu on a website, I got a kernel panic. Nothing odd since but I wish I knew what was going on. Despite all that, Apple's updates are a lot less of a pain than the SRPs for Windows as they are usually fairly small and only rarely do they create more problems than they were designed to solve.

[ZildjianKX]

Guess they're not touching SAMBA anymore... shame they reverted back to mounting all Samba folders instead of making them browsable like windows does.

[mklos]

Guess they're not touching SAMBA anymore... shame they reverted back to mounting all Samba folders instead of making them browsable like windows does.

The browse option is still there. So you actually have a choice. Frankly, I like having it on the desktop better. Then its right there when I need it.

[wrldwzrd89]

Guess they're not touching SAMBA anymore... shame they reverted back to mounting all Samba folders instead of making them browsable like windows does.
They are still browsable - Apple simply made it so that they mount like any other drive. The reason for having them mount instead of browse-only is that you can create an alias of a mount, which you can't do for a browse-only resource. I've seen quite a few 10.3.2 users on these forums requesting this very feature before 10.3.3 was released.

[neonart]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

Do you repair permissions and run MacJanitor regularly? I have 2 Macs right now and upkeep 5 or 6 others and have not ever had kernel panics or really bad crashes (unless I do something stupid, or there is faulty hardware). This is especially true with my 12" PBook.
On some of the machines I take care of when their owners tell me something is wrong, it's usually lack of upkeep.
Make sure you do these things and you should be in good shape. And remember- don't turn off your Powerbook, just put it to sleep. But do run MacJanitor (search VersionTracker.com) every other week or so.

[floatingspirit]

... I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

Under what conditions do you get kernel panics? I presume you are a "power user"? (Isn't that a flattering title!? :cool: )

[simply258]

People have said that apple was going to release a pro tools killer...

WHEN? :)
Maybe that was Motion

EDIT: sorry thought you meant a pro app then realised pro tools was an audio app.

[neonart]

Under what conditions do you get kernel panics? I presume you are a "power user"? (Isn't that a flattering title!? :cool: )

<again off topic>
To add to the Kernil Panic stuff on 10.3... CHECK YOUR RAM. I bought a couple of sticks for my G4 and started getting crashes and 1 kernel panic. It was obiuos it was the RAM.
Make sure the RAM in your machine is not causing the issue if you have additional RAM...

[singletrack]

I hope they improve Safari in this release. It's my one complaint over these updates - Each seems to make Safari slower and the redraw less intelligent. v1.0 was fast, v1.2 is much, much slower.

If I'm running low on ram (I only have 384MB!), getting a beachball each time I click on a form element in Safari, attempt to scroll or type in a text field gets tiresome, particularly when Firefox, running at the same time, doesn't beachball and doesn't redraw the whole page. Maybe it's the lack of VRAM (only 8MB in this iBook so no QuartzExtreme) but it's odd that Firefox runs fine and Safari doesn't.

[ingenious]

Do you repair permissions and run MacJanitor regularly? I have 2 Macs right now and upkeep 5 or 6 others and have not ever had kernel panics or really bad crashes (unless I do something stupid, or there is faulty hardware). This is especially true with my 12" PBook.
On some of the machines I take care of when their owners tell me something is wrong, it's usually lack of upkeep.
Make sure you do these things and you should be in good shape. And remember- don't turn off your Powerbook, just put it to sleep. But do run MacJanitor (search VersionTracker.com) every other week or so.


hey im not a mac newbie, of course i run repair permissions whenever something starts to act up. the kernel panics have not happened since 10.3.3 either, now that i think about it. My PB actually runs better when I shut it down at least once a week (isnt that recommended by apple [every 10 days?]). Usually i just log out and close the lid. or switch users. I haven't tried mac janitor.... i will tho.

[ingenious]

Under what conditions do you get kernel panics? I presume you are a "power user"? (Isn't that a flattering title!? :cool: )


now that i think about it, i dont think ive gotten one since 10.3.2, maybe one, but usually its when i have several programs open: Safari, Mail, iChat, MSN Messenger, iTunes. That's not very many, I know, (maybe im just maxing out my Rev. A 12" PB.... :() but if i open iMovie or Photoshop, instead of it just slowing down, the dock dissapears, i get a partial desktop picture, and expose dissappears. then, it will sometimes have a kernel panic and i have to restart. i know this shouldn't be happening, i just can't figure out why it does! Yes, i do repair permissions regularly.

[ingenious]

<again off topic>
To add to the Kernil Panic stuff on 10.3... CHECK YOUR RAM. I bought a couple of sticks for my G4 and started getting crashes and 1 kernel panic. It was obiuos it was the RAM.
Make sure the RAM in your machine is not causing the issue if you have additional RAM...


i have (*gasp* i know, i know) no additional RAM and it only did this under Jag whenever I was trying to copy a PC CD-ROM (which shouldn't have caused it either, but it would not let me do it! i tried six or seven times and got a kernel panic each time.). I am not saying i liked Jag better, by all means, no! I'm just saying that I hope i can get this resolved.

[ZildjianKX]

The browse option is still there. So you actually have a choice. Frankly, I like having it on the desktop better. Then its right there when I need it.

How do you enable browsing without mounting?

[neonart]

i have (*gasp* i know, i know) no additional RAM...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

AS you are aware, running OSX, and 4-5 apps on 256MB does not help your problems. Buy a 256MB stick. It's cheap.

Take care.

<Back to the 10.3.4.5.6.7 topic>

[SiliconAddict]

Do you repair permissions and run MacJanitor regularly?


<More offtopic goodness. Sorry>


Guys. I pointed a user in the office I work to the local Apple store about 2 weeks ago. He picked up an iMac. He is NOT computer savy. Should I have him install MacJanitor on his system for preventative maintenance purposes? I don't want to look like a putz, being the IT person, by having him come back to me in a few months telling me he is having problems if it can be simply avoided by having him install this software. Thoughts?

[matthew24]

I had a lot of issues with 10.3.2. (when running Mail, Safari and .Mac synchronisation at the same time, plus wake/sleep problems). These were all solved with 10.3.3. In fact 10.3.3. has been so stable that is does surprise me that they are bringing out another 10.3.x release before 10.4 I believe that 10.3.4 is more about polishing/performance improvement than bug-fixing, and I don't expect another update before 10.4.

I really appreciate the Apple attitude of continueing improving an already almost perfect OS.

[Windowlicker]

the thing i like most in panther is the new finder. also some other improvements, but what bugs me off is the fact that I get more app crashes than with 10.2.8. I hope this next update changes things even a little.

btw kill bill 2 rocked!

[rdowns]

<More offtopic goodness. Sorry>


Guys. I pointed a user in the office I work to the local Apple store about 2 weeks ago. He picked up an iMac. He is NOT computer savy. Should I have him install MacJanitor on his system for preventative maintenance purposes? I don't want to look like a putz, being the IT person, by having him come back to me in a few months telling me he is having problems if it can be simply avoided by having him install this software. Thoughts?

Absolutely. Found this on a quick Google search for Mac OS X maintenance:

MacJanitor is designed to be used on a periodic basis by Mac OS X users who don't leave their computer on (and awake) 24 hours a day. MacJanitor is provided as freeware as a service to laptop and energy-conscious home users.

The Unix subsystems on Mac OS X were originally written for machines that were typically never shut off. Mac OS X inherits this assumption in version 1.x, and has many system maintenance tasks that are scheduled to run between 3 am and 5 am. In addition, there are scripts designed to run weekly on weekends, and once a month in the middle of the night.

If these maintenance tasks are never run (such as on a laptop that is always shut off at night), many log files and system database will grow extremely large or fail to get backed up.

MacJanitor provides a way to run these system tasks at the click of a button. Laptop users could click the 'daily' button every morning (or every few days), or office workers could click the 'weekly' button on Mondays.

If you've been leaving your machine off at night without allowing the maintenance tasks to run for several weeks or more, the first time you run them using MacJanitor may take several minutes. Also, if your log files have grown extremely large and you are low on disk space, the tasks may have problems moving the files around and compressing them. After that, it typically takes less than a minute for each task.

The output of the task is displayed in the scrolling view in the bottom part of the window. If for some reason you feel the need, you may print the output of the system maintenance tasks (but why?...).

You can't really hurt anything by running the tasks more frequently than is intended, and they don't need to be run on a strict schedule. Just run them periodically when you get a free minute every few days or weeks.

Hopefully, this will be addressed in a future update of Mac OS X.

[littlejim]

I hope they improve Safari in this release. It's my one complaint over these updates - Each seems to make Safari slower and the redraw less intelligent. v1.0 was fast, v1.2 is much, much slower.

If I'm running low on ram (I only have 384MB!), getting a beachball each time I click on a form element in Safari, attempt to scroll or type in a text field gets tiresome, particularly when Firefox, running at the same time, doesn't beachball and doesn't redraw the whole page. Maybe it's the lack of VRAM (only 8MB in this iBook so no QuartzExtreme) but it's odd that Firefox runs fine and Safari doesn't.

I'm really hoping for some improvements to Safari too.

I've now changed over to FireFox for the time bieng as Safari become too 'Beachball-y' on my PowerBook 12'.

[mangoman]

I use Cocktail. Same functions as Mac Janitor, more or less. Frequently updated, and running fine in 10.3.3

:)

[Benjamin]

I remember when i was so into the jaguar builds.. hehe but i haven't really been keeping up with panther builds at all. Anyway i think the rapid builds that apple has been pushing is great. Even if the software might have been released to early it just shows that apple is committed in fixing problems and change their software.

[backspinner]

@ safari slowness: trash the caches and the form auto fill stuff (search in the forums for more info)

@ kernel panics: I only get them while using MSN Messenger. Something is defenitly wrong with that program.

[numediaman]

It's strange for me to hear all this talk about Safari performing slowly. On my PB Safari flies -- but I have some interesting circumstances that may be helping my computer perform faster:

Recently I needed to have my logic board replaced. When my computer was returned, I had a clean hard drive and a clean install of Jaguar. I immediately loaded Panther, did all the upgrades, and re-installed a minimum of software, including new iLife.

Ever since then all the Apple software has been lightning fast -- including Safari. My computer has not crashed once (the battery falling out not counting, of course!).

My only point is that with the newest Apple software, where I have added the new Panther optimized software on top of my computer, performance drags. But on my laptop, where a clean install has taken place, the new stuff performs very well. Just a thought.

[mklos]

How do you enable browsing without mounting?

No you can't browse without mounting. Say I want to connected to my iBook. I can open a Finder Window and click on Network and it will show up (thats browsing), or in the Finder I can go to the Go Menu and then down to Connect to Server and put afp://ibook/mklos and it will do the exact same thing. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean?

[ClimbingTheLog]

Guess they're not touching SAMBA anymore... shame they reverted back to mounting all Samba folders instead of making them browsable like windows does.

Actually, for the client side, Apple isn't using Samba, they're using their own client forked off of a bsd client a couple years ago.

[mklos]

i have (*gasp* i know, i know) no additional RAM and it only did this under Jag whenever I was trying to copy a PC CD-ROM (which shouldn't have caused it either, but it would not let me do it! i tried six or seven times and got a kernel panic each time.). I am not saying i liked Jag better, by all means, no! I'm just saying that I hope i can get this resolved.

If you only have 256MB of RAM in your PowerBook and your running even 3 or 4 programs at a time and getting locks up then that is exactly why! Boy you need more RAM!!! I don't care what kind of computer you have whether its an iMac, or a Dell. If you try to run multiple programs in OS X or XP with 256 MB RAM then of course it will crash and slow down. Get another 256 DDR SODIMMM and then see how much better it runs. I guarantee you that it will not only stop kernel panicking, but you will also see a nice jump in the speed of the machine.

I can't believe you were complaining about kernel panics with only running that amount of RAM. Especially if your someone who like to have 4 or 5 programs open, big programs too like Photoshop and things like that.

Buy more RAM!

[mklos]

I hope they improve Safari in this release. It's my one complaint over these updates - Each seems to make Safari slower and the redraw less intelligent. v1.0 was fast, v1.2 is much, much slower.

If I'm running low on ram (I only have 384MB!), getting a beachball each time I click on a form element in Safari, attempt to scroll or type in a text field gets tiresome, particularly when Firefox, running at the same time, doesn't beachball and doesn't redraw the whole page. Maybe it's the lack of VRAM (only 8MB in this iBook so no QuartzExtreme) but it's odd that Firefox runs fine and Safari doesn't.

I don't know whats wrong with your Safari, but every new version has gotten faster and more things seem to work. I also have an iBook with 8 MB VRAM and 320MB of RAM and it works fine in Safari, or any app for that matter. It scrolls nice and redraws the page like its supposed to. Maybe I would delete Safari and download a new one and try that.

[awulf]

Mac OS 10.3.3 on my Power Mac G4 466 DA couldn't work better, everything is fast and stable. I don't use any third party utilities, but I do occasionally leave it on during the night, but it's usually put to sleep.

Safari is the only thing that causes me any troubles, at times it gets really slow. But if Safari agitates me I just switch over to Camino.

[SiliconAddict]

I hope they improve Safari in this release. It's my one complaint over these updates - Each seems to make Safari slower and the redraw less intelligent. v1.0 was fast, v1.2 is much, much slower.

If I'm running low on ram (I only have 384MB!), getting a beachball each time I click on a form element in Safari, attempt to scroll or type in a text field gets tiresome, particularly when Firefox, running at the same time, doesn't beachball and doesn't redraw the whole page. Maybe it's the lack of VRAM (only 8MB in this iBook so no QuartzExtreme) but it's odd that Firefox runs fine and Safari doesn't.


One word: Firefox

[SiliconAddict]

If you only have 256MB of RAM in your PowerBook and your running even 3 or 4 programs at a time and getting locks up then that is exactly why! Boy you need more RAM!!! I don't care what kind of computer you have whether its an iMac, or a Dell. If you try to run multiple programs in OS X or XP with 256 MB RAM then of course it will crash and slow down. Get another 256 DDR SODIMMM and then see how much better it runs. I guarantee you that it will not only stop kernel panicking, but you will also see a nice jump in the speed of the machine.

I can't believe you were complaining about kernel panics with only running that amount of RAM. Especially if your someone who like to have 4 or 5 programs open, big programs too like Photoshop and things like that.

Buy more RAM!

We have Dell 1.7Ghz, 128MB RAM in the office I work in and it runs acceptably fast with Windows 2000. No system should EVER crash from lack of RAM. The system should be paging out to the pagefile and that shouldn't take a system down.

[El Duderino]

this is kinda off the topic but is it possible to run OSX on systems other than apple, for instance....an athlon 64 notebook?

[crees!]

this is kinda off the topic but is it possible to run OSX on systems other than apple, for instance....an athlon 64 notebook?

The processor architecture is completely different.. so my answer would be no. Unless there is a VirtualMac emulator which I haven't heard of one.

[El Duderino]

i just checked the AMD website and it says that it is "designed to run all 32-bit x86 operating systems" and ive seen "x86" term used before, so this match up with OSX?

[ephica]

They are still browsable - Apple simply made it so that they mount like any other drive. The reason for having them mount instead of browse-only is that you can create an alias of a mount, which you can't do for a browse-only resource. I've seen quite a few 10.3.2 users on these forums requesting this very feature before 10.3.3 was released.

right, but the essential reason why apple changed it is because soft-mounting (share browsing) simply didn't work correctly half the time in the first place.
it works fine in other unix-based OSes, so i don't see why apple hasn't gotten it right yet.

in any case, this is not a matter of one method over the other, once/if apple gets soft-mounting working correctly, it is only a matter of adding the preference in the finder to do one or the other. or perhaps having soft-mounting as the default, and having hard-mounting as at least a contextual option, but i think a finder preference would please the most users.

[iBunny]

In any computer i use now, i have to at least have 1GB of ram. but for what i do and how much stuff i have open at once.... it is needed.

That is my PC of course... i have yet to purchase my iBook so we will see...

[ingenious]

i just checked the AMD website and it says that it is "designed to run all 32-bit x86 operating systems" and ive seen "x86" term used before, so this match up with OSX?


x86 are Intel/AMD type processors. i think the term came from the 186,286,386,486 processors a long time ago, but i could be wrong. Macs use a different type of processor that is made by IBM and Motorola called the PowerPC. Completely different arcitecture

[El Duderino]

right now it pretty much comes down to me wanting the mac software while still wanting a lot of power for around $1500. my choices come down to a 15" wide e-machine with a mobile AMD64 or going for the bottom of the line 12" powerbook, i wouldnt have a problem with the e-machine accept for the fact that its an e-machine and its almost 2 inches thick and weights 7.6 lbs...its a brick. im stuck right between a rock and a very hard place. o well. i guess it will ultimatly come down to how my dad wants to spend the money...i just wish bestbuy sold apple still than it would be no contest

[GeeYouEye]

The only thing I want fixed is iChat, and the bug where, if I use it instead of the official AIM client, it kills my DHCP lease from AirPort (rendering me Internet connectionless), and I can't reacquire it without restarting the Base Station,

[davecuse]

The only thing I want fixed is iChat, and the bug where, if I use it instead of the official AIM client, it kills my DHCP lease from AirPort (rendering me Internet connectionless), and I can't reacquire it without restarting the Base Station,

This happens to me all the time, you've found that iChat causes it?? I'll have to do some testing and see what I can come up with.

[ssamani]

The Unix subsystems on Mac OS X were originally written for machines that were typically never shut off. Mac OS X inherits this assumption in version 1.x, and has many system maintenance tasks that are scheduled to run between 3 am and 5 am. In addition, there are scripts designed to run weekly on weekends, and once a month in the middle of the night.

If these maintenance tasks are never run (such as on a laptop that is always shut off at night), many log files and system database will grow extremely large or fail to get backed up.


Absolutely. My TiBook was running like a dog, and I thought it was cos I had installed all sorts of nonsense on it. I ran the maintenance tasks, a repair permissions and a pre-binding, and its lovely and fast. I was actually shocked at the speed up in boot up times. Still could do with a 7200rpm disk and another mem slot....

[ssamani]

x86 are Intel/AMD type processors. i think the term came from the 186,286,386,486 processors a long time ago, but i could be wrong. Macs use a different type of processor that is made by IBM and Motorola called the PowerPC. Completely different arcitecture

God you lot are making me feel old... "Do you remember when Intel processors were just a number, like 486". I don't suppose you would recall what a PDP-11 is either. Oh well, I suppose I should just age gracefully. They stopped using numbers, i.e., the original Pentium wasn't called the 586 because they could not trademark a number.

Apropos to El Duderino's original question, Mac OS X can run on other processors and Apple almost certainly tests the latest versions on Intel and AMD machines and has probably ensured that the 64-bit extensions for the G5 also work on AMD's 64-bit processors. The Nexstep legacy of OS X used to run on HP PA-RISC chips, Intel i486, Sun Sparc and Motorolla 68xxx processors and there is no reason why OS X could not as well.

However they have not released OS X for Intel/AMD as a commercial product and all the Carbon apps would be tricky to port, though the Cocoa ones wouldn't be too bad. The OS is probably there but bringing all the 3rd party software along as well would take a lot of time and money.

Oh and you couldn't make a decent 1" notebook with one of those processors either.

[GeeYouEye]

This happens to me all the time, you've found that iChat causes it?? I'll have to do some testing and see what I can come up with.I've tried just about everything: reinstalling the OS, reinstalling the application, deleting preferences (which, in combination with reinstalling the app, worked for a while), but now nothing seems to work.

[rfenik]

To do the 'routine maintainence' open terminal and type

sudo periodic daily
sudo periodic weekly
sudo periodic monthly

with a return between each line. Wait before the last one finishes before continuing.

to update the prebinding (linking of programs) open the terminal and type

sudo update_prebinding -root / -force

You don't need those programs like macjanitor or anything ... all they do is open terminal and type these in for you.

-ko

[Tarlach]

I wonder if this will finally satisfy the panther naysayers?? :rolleyes: I guess that depends if all the bugs are fixed. I love Panther... it's soooo much IMHO better than Jaguar, but it seems less stable and I get more kernal panics. Hopefully these are just bugs and they will be fixed soon!

I have not gotten one kernal panic with Panther. I have 3 machines and all are super stable.

[ingenious]

God you lot are making me feel old... "Do you remember when Intel processors were just a number, like 486". I don't suppose you would recall what a PDP-11 is either. Oh well, I suppose I should just age gracefully. They stopped using numbers, i.e., the original Pentium wasn't called the 586 because they could not trademark a number.

Apropos to El Duderino's original question, Mac OS X can run on other processors and Apple almost certainly tests the latest versions on Intel and AMD machines and has probably ensured that the 64-bit extensions for the G5 also work on AMD's 64-bit processors. The Nexstep legacy of OS X used to run on HP PA-RISC chips, Intel i486, Sun Sparc and Motorolla 68xxx processors and there is no reason why OS X could not as well.

However they have not released OS X for Intel/AMD as a commercial product and all the Carbon apps would be tricky to port, though the Cocoa ones wouldn't be too bad. The OS is probably there but bringing all the 3rd party software along as well would take a lot of time and money.

Oh and you couldn't make a decent 1" notebook with one of those processors either.


actually im only 14 and i only know about those because i read a lot and once someone gave me a 486.... LOL i still dont think that OS X can run on ANY x86 processors. Its coded for PPC. Sys 7 had an emulator cuz it was the first to run on PPC and so there were still some 68k apps.

[bousozoku]

actually im only 14 and i only know about those because i read a lot and once someone gave me a 486.... LOL i still dont think that OS X can run on ANY x86 processors. Its coded for PPC. Sys 7 had an emulator cuz it was the first to run on PPC and so there were still some 68k apps.


Historically, UNIX, from which Mac OS X is derived, could run on most any processor with only a very small amount of assembly code (fewer than 7000 lines, I believe) required to be converted to the target processor. Everything else was written in C.

You will find that Mac OS X follows this method very closely but adds Objective-C to the mix of high level languages used. The only thing that would be non-compliant would be Carbon applications built with resources instead of Nib files.

It's no big deal to get the operating system itself running on x86, UltraSPARC, MIPS, or any other architecture. It's only the applications that are a problem.

By the way, you missed the 8086 in your list of x86 major steps. :) I heard about it when someone named IBM was putting in something called the Displaywriter. :D Hmm, and ssamani thought that he was old.

[eroyce]

Absolutely. Found this on a quick Google search for Mac OS X maintenance:

MacJanitor is designed to be used on a periodic basis by Mac OS X users who don't leave their computer on (and awake) 24 hours a day. MacJanitor is provided as freeware as a service to laptop and energy-conscious home users.

The Unix subsystems on Mac OS X were originally written for machines that were typically never shut off. Mac OS X inherits this assumption in version 1.x, and has many system maintenance tasks that are scheduled to run between 3 am and 5 am. In addition, there are scripts designed to run weekly on weekends, and once a month in the middle of the night.

Quick question, I leave my Mac on 24/7, but at night it is sleeping. Will the system maintenance run while the computer is sleeping, or wake it up and do these tasks? Either way, it would be easiest if there wasn't any real need to get a MacJanitor program.

[bousozoku]

Quick question, I leave my Mac on 24/7, but at night it is sleeping. Will the system maintenance run while the computer is sleeping, or wake it up and do these tasks? Either way, it would be easiest if there wasn't any real need to get a MacJanitor program.

No, those tasks will not run while the computer is sleeping.

[mklos]

actually im only 14 and i only know about those because i read a lot and once someone gave me a 486.... LOL i still dont think that OS X can run on ANY x86 processors. Its coded for PPC. Sys 7 had an emulator cuz it was the first to run on PPC and so there were still some 68k apps.

Correct Caleb! Mac OS X is coded for PPC processors only. A PPC processor and an x86 processor are 2 totally different processors. For example the PPC processor is a RISC processor and the x86 processor is a CISC processor. Also I would think it would need the Apple Boot ROM chip that is in all Macs.

There was talk that Apple was developing an x86 version of OS X at one point last year, but those rumors have all but disappeared. I do believe that Apple does in fact have an x86 version of Mac OS X made of some kind. It may not be an up-to-date version, but its one that works. Apple would never admit to having such a thing, nor would they ever use it.

[rdowns]

Quick question, I leave my Mac on 24/7, but at night it is sleeping. Will the system maintenance run while the computer is sleeping, or wake it up and do these tasks? Either way, it would be easiest if there wasn't any real need to get a MacJanitor program.

They will not run if the computer is sleeping. You can run the tasks (cron jobs) from the Terminal if you wish. MacJanitor just gives you a pretty UI (well, not so pretty) to do these. Besides, it's freeware.

[cb911]

ooohhhh... more graphics updates! :D well if these graphics updates keep at this rate, i'll be happy! :D

[bousozoku]

Correct Caleb! Mac OS X is coded for PPC processors only.
...

I do believe that Apple does in fact have an x86 version of Mac OS X made of some kind.

Either that is a contradiction or the x86 version is running on PPC hardware. ;) :D

[CartoonHeroII]

The only thing I want fixed is iChat, and the bug where, if I use it instead of the official AIM client, it kills my DHCP lease from AirPort (rendering me Internet connectionless), and I can't reacquire it without restarting the Base Station,

I was having that problem too, but found that to fix it you just turn off Rendezvous Chat in the iChat preferences.

[ingenious]

I was having that problem too, but found that to fix it you just turn off Rendezvous Chat in the iChat preferences.


and rendezvous is IMHO the best feature!

[mackasey]

Check this cool windows & Bill Gates joke page out! Its soooo awesome! http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/ :)

[ingenious]

Check this cool windows & Bill Gates joke page out! Its soooo awesome! http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/ :)


umm that was a little unecessary! remember who invested in apple when steve came back? (cough)bill gates!(cough) :D

back on topic.

im ready for updates! i like to keep stuff moving and to try out new stuff.

[thatwendigo]

right now it pretty much comes down to me wanting the mac software while still wanting a lot of power for around $1500.

Welcome to this world of the wanters, then. See, the problem a lot of PC people have when they switch over is that they're used to buying in a market with enormous competition and resources driving the costs of production downwards. It just doesn't work that way over here.

my choices come down to a 15" wide e-machine with a mobile AMD64 or going for the bottom of the line 12" powerbook, i wouldnt have a problem with the e-machine accept for the fact that its an e-machine and its almost 2 inches thick and weights 7.6 lbs...its a brick.

A couple of things you really ought to think about:
1) It's an Athlon64. Kiss your battery life goodbye.
2) It's an eMachines. Don't expect it to last, or even hold together particularly well.
3) If you're paying the same for a manufactured laptop that you would for the parts, beware.
4) Ouch. Eight pounds?

im stuck right between a rock and a very hard place. o well. i guess it will ultimatly come down to how my dad wants to spend the money...i just wish bestbuy sold apple still than it would be no contest

CompUSA sells macs, actually. I'm trying to talk the local one into hiring me as an Apple specialist on the general sales staff.

[JFreak]

i still dont think that OS X can run on ANY x86 processors. Its coded for PPC.

you are correct - the osx (the macintosh gui) doesn't run on any other platform than ppc, but darwin (the os beneath) runs on x86 nicely.

apple probably has internal osx r&d version running on x86 hardware, they just don't see the point in releasing it to public. it's kind of an insurance - you know - when they are well prepared to change the cpu architechture, they most probably never have to.

[.a]

We have Dell 1.7Ghz, 128MB RAM in the office I work in and it runs acceptably fast with Windows 2000. No system should EVER crash from lack of RAM. The system should be paging out to the pagefile and that shouldn't take a system down.


i have a dual g4 450mhz with 2048 mb ram and my system never crashed from lack of ram :)
.a

[El Duderino]

CompUSA sells macs, actually. I'm trying to talk the local one into hiring me as an Apple specialist on the general sales staff.
the only reason i want bestbuy to sell it is becuase i work there, discount...hehe :D

[rog]

I hope this comes out soon and fixes all the problems I am having on my bondi blue imac. You'd think it would work better on such a recent machine. I mean, it's got 64MB and that ought to be enough for anything!

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I hope this comes out soon and fixes all the problems I am having on my bondi blue imac. You'd think it would work better on such a recent machine. I mean, it's got 64MB and that ought to be enough for anything!
Welcome to the real world! OSX demands 128 Mb ram...

The grachic errors you are having is due to your lack of VRAM.

[solvs]

Welcome to the real world! OSX demands 128 Mb ram...

The grachic errors you are having is due to your lack of VRAM.

I think rog was being sarcastic.

the only reason i want bestbuy to sell it is becuase i work there, discount...hehe :D

I believe the web site has Macs for sale on them, if that helps. They used to sell PowerBooks, though that was a pilot program. At least you can buy a discounted iPod.

umm that was a little unecessary! remember who invested in apple when steve came back? (cough)bill gates!(cough)

Maybe you should read the page in question. My favorite quote - "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he, who by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Speaks volumes about why most of us dislike him. Mediocrity, at best, has become the standard thanks to him. Besides, it was to resolve a lawsuit. And his investment made him a tidy profit to boot. There's a lot more to the story, you should read up on it.

Bill doesn't come out looking so good.

[ingenious]

you are correct - the osx (the macintosh gui) doesn't run on any other platform than ppc, but darwin (the os beneath) runs on x86 nicely.

apple probably has internal osx r&d version running on x86 hardware, they just don't see the point in releasing it to public. it's kind of an insurance - you know - when they are well prepared to change the cpu architechture, they most probably never have to.

yes i knew i was correct (sorry if that sounds conceited.. :() i am NOT a computer newbie!! :D Yes I knew Darwin ran on x86. I downloaded it, but havent done much with it. I dont know about the R&D thing tho... I guess we'll see.
:rolleyes:

[ingenious]

I think rog was being sarcastic.



I believe the web site has Macs for sale on them, if that helps. They used to sell PowerBooks, though that was a pilot program. At least you can buy a discounted iPod.



Maybe you should read the page in question. My favorite quote - "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he, who by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Speaks volumes about why most of us dislike him. Mediocrity, at best, has become the standard thanks to him. Besides, it was to resolve a lawsuit. And his investment made him a tidy profit to boot. There's a lot more to the story, you should read up on it.

Bill doesn't come out looking so good.


actually, i have read the site. i wasnt even tho it looked like it, defending bill gates. i think that some things on that website take it to the way extreme, tho. thats all i was saying. i really really do not like bill gates. after all, he created windows and his company duped me into buying this pc! maybe i should sue for false advertising that its secure and stable!! :D

[musicpyrite]

Really? I've never gotten a kernel panic.


Since I've had my iMac from about October, I have gotten ~7 kernel panics. :mad: But I think it's my fault; running Safari, iTunes, Limewire, Mail, iChat, and Adobe Photoshop cs all on 256 MB RAM.

[stoid]

The interesting thing to me is that Apple is able to continually develop OS X with major upgrades on close to an annual basis and continual tweaks during the year. Sure, the annual upgrades cost $129 - which I'm happy to pay - but the tweaks are free. How can they keep this up when MS is flopping around year after year with Longhorn?

Keep it up Apple - you're the only one delivering significant upgrades on a continual basis!

MS programmers are too busy trying to write patches for all these viruses to work on Longhorn.

[El Duderino]

I believe the web site has Macs for sale on them, if that helps. They used to sell PowerBooks, though that was a pilot program. At least you can buy a discounted iPod.
the discount i got on all the products are just a touch above the edu. discount. but the bestbuy PSP (warenty) makes it worth it since it also covers the battery as well as the everything else. and for the record, that e-machine mobile 64 has up to 5 hours of battery life. i hate to say it but i think im going to have to get the e-machine, maybe ill get an apple once the pc crashes :)

[Patmian212]

Sorry but this definetley deserves page 1 status.
Its a big update.

Do you think it affect the price of panther?

[titaniumducky]

Since I've had my iMac from about October, I have gotten ~7 kernel panics. :mad: But I think it's my fault; running Safari, iTunes, Limewire, Mail, iChat, and Adobe Photoshop cs all on 256 MB RAM.

I have 512MB of RAM - I got my PowerBook June 2003 - Last Ti revision. I almost ALWAYS have Safari, iTunes, iChat, and Mail open. Often GarageBand and Address Book. Photoshop (7) too. The worst that's ever happened is after playing UT2003 demo, the program wouldn't quit - left me with a black screen. Powered down and up. Technically, though, the OS didn't crash and therefore, it's not a kernel panic.

[JT3MacManiac]

actually, its more than several new features:

read here: http://www.differentdistrict.com/index.php?id=P972

[wdlove]

actually, its more than several new features:

read here: http://www.differentdistrict.com/index.php?id=P972

Rather than me joining "Different District" could you post the highlights of 10.3.4? It would be greatly appreciated. ;)

[JT3MacManiac]

Rather than me joining "Different District" could you post the highlights of 10.3.4? It would be greatly appreciated. ;)

sry, that is a member benefit :P its some cool things though


registration is free...why not?

[jared_kipe]

x86 are Intel/AMD type processors. i think the term came from the 186,286,386,486 processors a long time ago, but i could be wrong. Macs use a different type of processor that is made by IBM and Motorola called the PowerPC. Completely different arcitecture

It, in fact, comes from the Intel 8086 who was a 16 bit processor. The successor, 8088, was only an 8 bit because more programs were running on the 8 bit side of things.

[JFreak]

It, in fact, comes from the Intel 8086 who was a 16 bit processor. The successor, 8088, was only an 8 bit because more programs were running on the 8 bit side of things.

you're wrong. intel's first 16bit processor was called 80286.

[Ambrose Chapel]

i'm glad apple has acknowleged the bug of cd-r icons remaining on the desktop after burning and ejecting in iTunes...hopefully a fix is coming...

[bousozoku]

you're wrong. intel's first 16bit processor was called 80286.

I'm not sure what you mean by 16-bit, but the 8086 and the 80186 were both considered to be 16-bit processors. The 8088 was considered a 16/8-bit processor.

Besides, it you're differentiating on memory bus, the 80286 could be considered a 24-bit processor.

[JFreak]

I'm not sure what you mean by 16-bit, but the 8086 and the 80186 were both considered to be 16-bit processors. The 8088 was considered a 16/8-bit processor.

Besides, it you're differentiating on memory bus, the 80286 could be considered a 24-bit processor.

well, definitions are everything :)

actually even 8086 had a 20bit memory addressing (1MB, wo-hoo), but anyway, the 80286 was considered the first PURE 16bit architechture. you're right in stating 8088/8086 was considered a 16bit processor because in the inside it tried to be, but suffered from 8bit physical bus on the outside. in reality it was little more than a kludged up 8bit processor. (the 8088 also had 8bit registers if my memory serves me right, whereas the 8086 might have had 16bit words. but don't flame me on this because i'm not sure if i remember it correctly...)

so in my opinion one can argue about this and i don't mind. i just hope apple can release faster 64bit cpu:s and also put it in low-end models ;)