AT&T Exclusivity Expires in 2010, AT&T Asking for Extension?

[ProwlingTiger]

No they didn't. Apple and Verizon negotiated off and on for a year. During that time, Verizon never saw an iPhone.



No, again. Verizon usually adds the option of a VZ theme to their smartphones, but you can use whatever theme you want.

If you're going to argue about anything, at least use facts, not myths.

Show me one phone Verizon offers without the crappy branding theme that isn't a smart phone and doesn't have crippled bluetooth.

...

Seriously. People call AT&T greedy and I really don't see how the hell they reach that conclusion. They've given Apple so much reign on control of the iPhone. Verizon would NEVER do that. I could never see them doing iTunes activation. Or anything cool for that matter I guess (oh how the iPhone has made AT&T hip :D )

While I have no doubt Apple has a CDMA iPhone already cooked up, I imagine it will continue to be lost in development limbo.

[jctevere]

With all this talk about GSM and Verizon not supporting it... the new Verizon Blackberry Storm has a sim card. Couldn't this mean that when exclusivity runs out in 2010 for AT&T Verizon could just provide a simcard for the iPhone and the iPhone and blackberry Storm would be the only two phones with sim cards, and both phones require data plans... So that is not a problem.

I think that the new iPhone COULD go to verizon... BUT, I don't really think Verizon really wants to iPhone, if they did it would be on their terms. They already have the verizon store which the appstore would replace, and I am sure they wouldn't want Apple to take all of their revenue from that for purchases that they could offer via verizon's store. Also, I don't think apple would want to let Verizon have exclusive control and prohibit appstore. Lastly, stop complaining about the exclusivity of the iPhone on AT&T's network. Yes, it sucks, but AT&T was willing to give in to Apple's demands and thus, should be rewarded. I could get heavy discounts on my monthly bill if the iPhone went Verizon through work, but I have to use AT&T and pay full price. Don't hate Apple and AT&T, hate "The nation's largest 3G network" or whatever Verizon says.

Edit: I read up a little bit more on the sim card that in inside of the Blackberry Storm. It appears that it is not for use with Verizon's network and is merely for support for people in the UK to use the phone on Vodafone (Verizon's parent company, which is GSM). However, after finding this disappointing news that demolished and chance of having on iPhone on Verizon's network comes some hope:
http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2007/09/21/verizonvodafone-to-ditch-cdma-for-better-4g-gsm-standard-by-2013/

At the above website it states that by 2013, Verizon will have ditched CDMA for GSM for a 4G network. This could also explain why Verizon went through the trouble of including a SIM card on all blackberry storms and not just the ones sold in the UK. This is because Verizon may be adding future support for these phones on their 4G GSM network in 2013, which to be honest folks, isn't all that far away, since it will be fully completed within the next 3 to 4 years, we may start to see it sprout up in major areas within the next 1-2 years.

And the website put it best, "Even if Apple never releases the phone on Verizon’s network, a little unlocking action here and there should net you the ability to use a future version of the iPhone on an LTE carrier like Verizon."

[optophobia]

While I have no doubt Apple has a CDMA iPhone already cooked up, I imagine it will continue to be lost in development limbo.

Lets hope so.

[ProwlingTiger]

With all this talk about GSM and Verizon not supporting it... the new Verizon Blackberry Storm has a sim card. Couldn't this mean that when exclusivity runs out in 2010 for AT&T Verizon could just provide a simcard for the iPhone and the iPhone and blackberry Storm would be the only two phones with sim cards, and both phones require data plans... So that is not a problem. I think that the new iPhone will also go to verizon...

If I understand you right, you're saying Apple could make a CDMA iPhone and blend GSM technology with it like RIM did with the Storm? That'd be interesting...I'd wager bulk would be added.

I personally have not used my Storm on GSM so I can't comment on how dual band works. But I would say that is an interesting concept, if Apple were to throw out a dual system version and let everyone sell them.

I can see AT&T paying them off before that happens though.

And do you ever think all these rumours of a CDMA iPhones are mere ploys by Apple to scare AT&T into complying? I'd like to think Apple wouldn't stoop so low...but...we know there has to be a CDMA iPhone. Why would they not experiment with it?

[cjm3113]

And do you ever think all these rumours of a CDMA iPhones are mere ploys by Apple to scare AT&T into complying? I'd like to think Apple wouldn't stoop so low...but...we know there has to be a CDMA iPhone. Why would they not experiment with it?

They would not experiment if they thought it was wasting research and development money. They are not experimenting with technology that they believe to be dead with their computers, why would they with their phone?

[DaReal_Dionysus]

I hope they give up the exclusivity thing. It would mean better pricing across the board on plans. At&t is quite expensive for the business side of things.

[Digital Skunk]

I hope they give up the exclusivity thing. It would mean better pricing across the board on plans. At&t is quite expensive for the business side of things.

For the consumer side as well.

It may be worth paying that much for unlimited data and unlimited texts to get the iPhone on the only network available in the US, but it is a steep price to pay for it.

[bedifferent]

No they didn't. Apple and Verizon negotiated off and on for a year. During that time, Verizon never saw an iPhone.


How do you know first hand that Verizon did not reject Apple's proposition for the iPhone? From an article online? I've heard/read stories that state just the opposite, that Verizon did reject Apple's business plan for the iPhone specifically based on Apple's desire to have control over the UI and marketing. More pointed, a friend of mine works for Apple, and while his information is hearsay, your statement that the iPhone was initially a "click wheel" is FUD. The click wheel iPhone was a proposed concept, but that was years ago and by the time Apple began shopping the device around the multi-touch interface was already well into development. Verizon rejected the iPhone because it ran contrary to their business model. In fact, Steve Jobs even mocked the idea of a click wheel iPhone before the original iPhone was released. As is obvious today, Apple handles the UI, software, updates, marketing, etc. for the iPhone, Verizon does not and will not allow Apple this control. For that matter, Verizon lost.

Secondly, I doubt Apple will release a CDMA iPhone in the US as some people have suggested. Especially as Verizon is developing a 4G/LTE network for an anticipated launch by the end of 2009 (this year). As no rumors of an 4G/LTE iPhone are currently active, I suspect the rumored CDMA model may be for China. Otherwise, AT&T Wireless has exclusive rights until the end of the 2010 contract next June. I assume by that time if Apple rejects an exclusivity renewal, a 4G/LTE version may be available for other carriers. Until then, AT&T will have to suffice.

[bedifferent]

Show me one phone Verizon offers without the crappy branding theme that isn't a smart phone and doesn't have crippled bluetooth.

...

Seriously. People call AT&T greedy and I really don't see how the hell they reach that conclusion. They've given Apple so much reign on control of the iPhone. Verizon would NEVER do that. I could never see them doing iTunes activation. Or anything cool for that matter I guess (oh how the iPhone has made AT&T hip :D )

While I have no doubt Apple has a CDMA iPhone already cooked up, I imagine it will continue to be lost in development limbo.

Tell me about it. After Verizon's fiasco with the Motorola v710, I bought a RAZR phone. Some of the RAZR's shipped with a firmware version that did not cripple ObEx on the phone. Verizon then started telling customers that their RAZR's needed to be flashed for newer firmware to fix reception. Total BS, the new firmware simply crippled the ObEx on the RAZR so customers who didn't know any better were forced to use their crappy "Get it Now" service with exorbitant usage fees. Eventually the online community supplied individuals with the original non-crippled firmware to flash themselves. This is SHADY and speaks volumes about Verizons business model and the way they treat their customer base.

Again, Verizon as crippled many of their handsets in order to force its customers to pay for their services that other mobile service providers provide for free or simply do not cripple (Apple allows exchanging data via USB and iTunes, so crippling Bluetooth ObEx was a decision by Apple in order to provide a better end user experience for the iPhone, not to force owners to pay for such services).

[ineedamac]

I hope Apple and AT&T stay together. I agree with another post that AT&T should bend on things like tethering and to some degree VoIP to keep the iPhone exclusive to their network. Other carriers promote their exclusive phones.

Besides as long as AT&T has the iPhone it will force the companies like Verizon and T-Mobile to push their suppliers to develop better phones. Which in the end may move Apple to continue to refine and improve the iPhone.

[michaelsviews]

AT&T is GSM, yea I know everyone knows this and verizon is cdma, however verizon is going LTE which to my understanding is GSM, I maybe wrong and am not going to get long winded about this , but personally AT&T will more than likely get the extension, BUT if it were me at Apple I'd still be looking at Verizon.

One other thought is that I think originally Verizon's greedy corporate types wanted to brand it with there own firmware mod's and lock things out or something along the lines that they were not happy with Apples criteria.

The only reason I have AT&T is because of the iPhone, if the iPhone were to go away I'd go back to Verizon and deal with there stupid cheesy interfaces and locked down crippled devices. Gee thats why I left them :eek:

Oh well , its a no brainer AT&T is going to keep the contract or what ever they call it.

[JAT]

But an understandable one.

Only understandable if you agree that cell phone providers should be greedy bastard companies who won't even play ball with their own suppliers. Then sure, very understandable.

[terryzx]

Show me one phone Verizon offers without the crappy branding theme that isn't a smart phone and doesn't have crippled bluetooth.

I am somewhat sure that they don’t modify their smart phones like the Blackberry

But really....the ONLY real solution is to UNLOCK the iPhone and allow ALL carriers to support it, in it’s original unaltered software form

[andreab35]

Simply stated: NO EXTENDED CONTRACT!

I have had horrible service experience with AT&T. The places I need it most, I get no service. Whenever I don't need to use the phone/data, of course I fly 5 bars.
Truthfully if Verizon ever comes to the iPhone, it will be a blessing. Even if Verizon stuck itself all over the iPhone, I rather sacrifice their over-branding than having sucky service. I rather have quality service please.

Hopefully Verizon takes a turn... keeping my fingers crossed! :cool:

[rhpenguin]

Something...

[bbplayer5]

Verizon will allow the phone to sell without a branding, case closed. iPhone is the best phone on the market and they dropped the ball by not signing it.

They will have the iPhone in 2010 because the agreement probably ends in june of that year... Same month the original went on sale. Id expect a July release date for Verizon AND AT&T.

Finally...

[butterfly0fdoom]

I had T-Mobile before and I loved them. I hope Apple allows a choice. Comnpetition is best for everybody!

Even if Apple sold the iPhones as SIM unlocked in the US (which I wish they did), T-Mobile uses a 3G band that only they use. So it's not like T-Mobile users would get 3G access.

AT&T is GSM, yea I know everyone knows this and verizon is cdma, however verizon is going LTE which to my understanding is GSM, I maybe wrong and am not going to get long winded about this , but personally AT&T will more than likely get the extension, BUT if it were me at Apple I'd still be looking at Verizon.

Verizon's LTE network won't be feasible as a primary network for another 10 years from now, I'd say. I don't think Apple would go backwards and add EV-DO support to the iPhone just so that Verizon users could use it.

With all this talk about GSM and Verizon not supporting it... the new Verizon Blackberry Storm has a sim card.

Edit: I read up a little bit more on the sim card that in inside of the Blackberry Storm. It appears that it is not for use with Verizon's network and is merely for support for people in the UK to use the phone on Vodafone (Verizon's parent company, which is GSM).

The SIM card in the Storm (and all of Verizon's past global phones) were for international roaming, not for domestic US use. Verizon has no GSM network in the US, they can't provide SIM cards.

[bedifferent]

Verizon will allow the phone to sell without a branding, case closed.

You know this first hand, case closed knowledge how? I'm asking cause I'm interested in buying some stock while the market is low. Do you have any information on Intel or ImClone (IMCL)?

[davidbrummy]

Now that Apple has become an established player in the mobile field, they no longer need AT&T. They could become their own cell provider in the US by buying bandwidth from other cell companies (and eventually building out their own cell tower infrastructure).

Being a 3G or 4G Internet & Phone service provider could be a very powerful tool for Apple. It would allow all their mobile Mac's to access the internet anywhere without worrying about WiFi, and would allow Apple to finally grab a share of the TV pie with AppleTV providing live television (news/sports) to compliment iTunes purchased TV shows and Movies.

MobileMe could be extended to function as a control panel for all your Internet, Phone and TV needs. Apple also already has the brick and mortar infrastructure nationwide to begin offering this type of service.

I'm sure this has come up as an option and if I were Apple, I would be considering it seriously.

I have worked at several MVNO's and it was well rumored that Apple did look into this approachand rejected it. At the moment you would be probably also be limited to Sprint as they did at least a few years ago seemed to be the MVNO carrier of choice.

I have also worked for a Mobile radio planning company. Building your own network from scratch in a country as massive and geographically diverse as the US would probably kill Apple.

I think Apple should stick to what they are good and put pressure on the Network companies to up their game.

I also would like to see the iPhone on other carriers. I switched from Sprint to AT&T for it and AT&T data network in San Francisco sucks.

[mrcc]

The iphone will never go to Verizon. If verizon doesnt switch to sim card soon. Rumors have it is that Verizon the company will be gone, because the cdma technology is going extinct soon. Currently i have a contract with both verizon and atnt. Let me tell u. Both are the same quality. Neither is better or worse. maybe cuz im in southern california. i personally think that the iphone will stick with atnt. People complain about the $$$$. Well when u have any apple products. Ur paying top of the line products. Apple last longer than Windows PC.

[BTW]

want iPhone, don't want AT&T. hopefully there is some truth to this.

Yeah, I'm not an AT&T fan either. I'll be sticking with RIM or maybe move to an Andriod phone because of this.

Verizon, Sprint, or T-Mobile would be nice to have as choices. Apple would be crazy to limit themselves to one carrier in the U.S. beyond their current obligations.

[tuckerja]

I am with verizon and would love an iPhone, but not with verizon. I don't think they will be able to choke out the phone with their own applications, blackberry is slowly pulling away from that. The problem is that the iPhone is a smartphone. ANY smartphone through verizon requires a $45/month data plan or nothing at all. While many of the current smartphone customer through verizon and other carriers would probably switch, new customers would be extremely unlikely. I have a POS lg dare, but at least I only pay $15/month for unlimited, fast, and semi-html evdo internet.

I know it will never happen, and I really don't want to start up the whole nanoPhone debate again, but that would be the only way I would get an iPhone through verizon. I doubt that Apple would be able to work out a $20/month data plan with verizon.

[cwwilson]

I never knew so many people hated AT&T. I've always found them to be pretty good, both in cellular and TV/Internet (U-verse). Ive had Alltell and T-Mobile cell phones before and I've experienced dropped calls and bad coverage with ALL of them. Nobody is perfect. But from what I've been reading, Verizon is the be-all-end-all of service providers. They are the gods of the cell phone and telephony world and Apple should absolutely terminate their deal with AT&T and cling to Verizon's balls immediately.

All I know is, I have 5 full bars of 3G on my iPhone as I sit, and my coverage only drops down if I go out into the country.

Is AT&T really THAT bad? Really?

[Derekuda]

I hope the iPhone switches to other cariers! I hate ATT and that is why I unlocked my iphone for t-mobile. ATT can go F themselves.

[reckless2k2]

Has anyone looked at those Verizon phone prices, voice, and data plans? Just the data plan alone is higher than AT&T. I was an OG way-back AT&T wireless user that switch to Verizon a few years ago. After about a year, it was more economical to switch back to AT&T. Now with the economy in even greater peril, I'm looking at saving funds.

To be clear, I was on a family plan without data on Verizon. I jumped over to AT&T pre-iPhone with a family plan for less. Then I had a PDA then BB with data on AT&T. Still looking at less bottom line and the AT&T phone prices are much cheaper.

T-mobile data is too expensive too. Ugh. A hot mess.

If they do start selling across all carriers, I wouldn't switch.

I admit that when I traveled a lot all across the country, Verizon phone service worked EVERYWHERE and AT&T did not. I don't travel anymore.

[Lancelot9201]

If Apple renews this contract AT&T will never lower their pricing to compete with T-Mobiles $45.00 unlimited minutes program. Yes, they do have one & it's offered to loyal customers who have had service for a year or more. Their unlimited data starts at $25.00 -- This pricing is a 50% savings over AT&T's raping of iPhone users..

[mikes63737]

Apple needs to make them bend on things for the privilege to exclusively carry the iphone.

Yes. It is a privilege. I would switch to Verizon in a heartbeat if AT&T was not the exclusive carrier. So would probably 60% of current customers.

[jimmygb102]

Why does everyone say they want it on verizon because its cheaper......It's NOT!!! its the most expensive. Sprint has the better one with the simply everything plan. Don't play the better network BS ...that creeper with glasses on the commercials has ingrained it into your brain. All US cell networks have so-so service depending on your location. Its hard to cover a massive country like the US. Nobody knows if verizons network could handle the iPhone, you cant assume it does because of the couple crackberry users that might use the internet. iPhone users use over half of all browsing done on a mobile phone in the U.S.

[jimmygb102]

If Apple renews this contract AT&T will never lower their pricing to compete with T-Mobiles $45.00 unlimited minutes program. Yes, they do have one & it's offered to loyal customers who have had service for a year or more. Their unlimited data starts at $25.00 -- This pricing is a 50% savings over AT&T's raping of iPhone users..

Why do you compare At&t charging people for using their service like all companies do, to a disgusting act done upon women, and some men. it's pretty ignorant.

[jimmygb102]

Has anyone looked at those Verizon phone prices, voice, and data plans? Just the data plan alone is higher than AT&T. I was an OG way-back AT&T wireless user that switch to Verizon a few years ago. After about a year, it was more economical to switch back to AT&T. Now with the economy in even greater peril, I'm looking at saving funds.

To be clear, I was on a family plan without data on Verizon. I jumped over to AT&T pre-iPhone with a family plan for less. Then I had a PDA then BB with data on AT&T. Still looking at less bottom line and the AT&T phone prices are much cheaper.

T-mobile data is too expensive too. Ugh. A hot mess.

If they do start selling across all carriers, I wouldn't switch.

I admit that when I traveled a lot all across the country, Verizon phone service worked EVERYWHERE and AT&T did not. I don't travel anymore.

Thank you......you actually understand At&t is cheaper than verizon.

[naman34]

I can't for the life of me understand why some here would HOPE that Apple stays with AT&T exclusive. Uh, what? Why? Just because you're on AT&T and you're cool with it? Everyone's situation is different. Expanding to other carriers would benefit the iPhone greatly, and would dramatically increase its market share, while giving people options.

Some people legitimately cannot use AT&T for one reason or another, however much they want the iPhone. I don't see how the iPhone being lmited to 1 carrier is a GOOD thing for you, or for Apple.

well, dont know if you realise, but the iphone is only available for $200 because, of at & t, and as soon as it goes multi platform, there will be no reason for at & t to continue this subsidy, and iphone prices will go straight to $600, and if you want to pay that much, iphones are already available unlocked for that much these days.
and now that i read that at&t might actually be cheaper, i dont kno what u ppl are crying about.
I'm frm india and Ive not been able to buy an iphone simple because its on 2 platforms here and i cost about 600 us$

[andrew upstairs]

I'm glad that I switched to AT&T for the iPhone. I hated Verizon.

[bedifferent]

I never knew so many people hated AT&T. I've always found them to be pretty good, both in cellular and TV/Internet (U-verse). Ive had Alltell and T-Mobile cell phones before and I've experienced dropped calls and bad coverage with ALL of them. Nobody is perfect. But from what I've been reading, Verizon is the be-all-end-all of service providers. They are the gods of the cell phone and telephony world and Apple should absolutely terminate their deal with AT&T and cling to Verizon's balls immediately.

All I know is, I have 5 full bars of 3G on my iPhone as I sit, and my coverage only drops down if I go out into the country.

Is AT&T really THAT bad? Really?

It's not, and I highly doubt Apple would have staked their entry into the mobile phone market on a service provider if their service was as atrocious as some paint. For some reason, people take these "issues" personally and resort to defending their service provider as though it were a member of their family. This argument of which mobile carrier is the "*****" creeps into such arguments as the recently beaten [again] dead horse of Mac OS X versus Windows OS. It's lame but some people use the anonymity of the internet to strong arm people in discussions in order to gain some personal superiority they lack in daily [average] human interaction. Yawn.

[jimmygb102]

I'm glad that I switched to AT&T for the iPhone. I hated Verizon.

I got bitched out by a supervisor from verizon when i was trying to get my 9.99 line cancelled on verizon the day before the iPhone was announced. I was using the them raising rates thing that technically according to their contract says allows you to get out. It was my dads line techinically, so she called him and lied to say i called her a bitch. She caved in and let me cancel it.

Dont give me the, thats wrong you signed a contract so you get cheaper phones ****. i paid 300 for the first enV. come on....and it was 9.99 a month.

[JimAtLaw]

Don't play the better network BS ...that creeper with glasses on the commercials has ingrained it into your brain. All US cell networks have so-so service depending on your location. Its hard to cover a massive country like the US. Nobody knows if verizons network could handle the iPhone, you cant assume it does because of the couple crackberry users that might use the internet. iPhone users use over half of all browsing done on a mobile phone in the U.S.
Uh, no, the commercials have not embedded it into our brains. Many of us ACTUALLY HAD Verizon, switched to AT&T for the iPhone, and now have 10x the number of dropped calls, many more uncovered areas, including in high traffic zones where you would not expect them, etc. It's not marketing - I WISH AT&T's network was even remotely comparable to Verizon's, but in California, it most assuredly isn't.

[kdarling]

Thank you......you actually understand At&t is cheaper than verizon.

How so? The PDA voice and data plan prices look identical, with the only difference being ATT has rollover minutes and Verizon has the choose five friends plan available.

well, dont know if you realise, but the iphone is only available for $200 because, of at & t, and as soon as it goes multi platform, there will be no reason for at & t to continue this subsidy,

Subsidies have been, and always will be, available for phones that are on many different carriers.

For example, Verizon, Sprint, ATT all carry the HTC Diamond Pro. And it's subsidized on all.

[mikecap]

Apple would be foolish to extend exclusivity further - they're losing so many hardware sales due to people being locked into contracts with other providers, it would make zero sense for them to limit their explosive sales growth by continuing AT&T's monopoly.

[jimmygb102]

http://www.verizonwireless.com:80/b2c/store/controller?item=planFirst&action=viewPlanList&sortOption=priceSort&typeId=3&subTypeId=50&catId=947


Verizon 99.00

At&t 90.00


hmmmmmmm.......................
The usual iphone plan....450 mins. unl. txt, data.

[NoExpectations]

Apple would be foolish to extend exclusivity further - they're losing so many hardware sales due to people being locked into contracts with other providers, it would make zero sense for them to limit their explosive sales growth by continuing AT&T's monopoly.

It does make sense. If Apple can sell every phone that they can make right now (up to factory capacity), then go with an exclusive agreement with a carrier to get the highest possible 'kickback' subsidy. If Apple opened it up to all carriers, think Moto Razr and low kickbacks. Why would any carrier offer a $400 kickback that is not exclusive to them?

[applefan702]

I have no problems with AT&T. They all suck equally for what its worth.


-I totally agree. Every phone carrier has it's ups and downs.

[Caralvarez24]

well, dont know if you realise, but the iphone is only available for $200 because, of at & t, and as soon as it goes multi platform, there will be no reason for at & t to continue this subsidy, and iphone prices will go straight to $600, and if you want to pay that much, iphones are already available unlocked for that much these days.
and now that i read that at&t might actually be cheaper, i dont kno what u ppl are crying about.
I'm frm india and Ive not been able to buy an iphone simple because its on 2 platforms here and i cost about 600 us$

That is so incorrect it is not even funny. All carriers subsidize phones. Actually all carriers usually do not even make money on the phones. That is why you get locked into contracts. Contracts allow them to make back the money they lose on subsidizing he phones and then make a profit. I have done two lengthy case studies involving the cell phone industry and carriers etc. If expanded to all carriers the iPhone would ATLEAST stay at the same price point as now. I could see someone dropping the price to try and get people to switch to them.

[applefan702]

I personally think that Apple should extend their iPhone to a variaty of carriers.
~At&t
~Verizon
~T-mobile


:apple::cool::apple:

[Caralvarez24]

I personally think that Apple should extend their iPhone to a variaty of carriers.
~At&t
~Verizon
~T-mobile


:apple::cool::apple:

agreed, competition is always good for the consumer :)

[ant-macyourself]

Despite the popular hate towards AT&T, you have to give them credit for working with Apple in the first place. Verizon was offered the iPhone first and THEY declined it. Apple didn't pick AT&T, they were the 2nd choice after Verizon told Apple to beat it. They blew it and now their customers are suffering for it.

Not to mention that AT&T is giving Apple quite a bit of special treatment. Visual voicemail required some changes to their system. They've ramped up network capacity a ton since the iPhone came out. Even more importantly, AT&T let Apple sell iTunes downloads over EDGE and 3G. Verizon would never allow such a thing because they force V-Cast on all their partners.

I think what it comes down to is Apple being satisfied with how much AT&T is letting them get away with and AT&T being happy with how many new subscribers are coming in. Their coverage may be crappy in some areas for some people, but it makes total sense from a business perspective. And that's what they are - businesses.

[scottness]

I have no problem with ATT. I was pleasantly surprised at the better coverage compared to Sprint and TM--in my area. Different story when I travel, but I am mostly home, so that matters most to me.

[DougB541]

In NYC, AT&T is very weak.

I have had sprint for 6 years and honestly, if the iPhone had come to them, i would've easily picked it up (though i've had some concerns of the phone but most are being addressed with Version 3.0)


As of now, i'm sticking with Sprint and their awesome 3G service and prices and getting a Palm Pre.

[hypmatize]

Be warned, you a terrible reception in Rohan. Even worse in the mines of Moria.

That is fine as long as I get service in Gondor its all good. :D

[JimAtLaw]

I don't have a problem with AT&T. I get maybe 1 or 2 dropped calls per month. Verizon did about the same. FWIW, AT&T's done a fairly good job at keeping up with Apple so far. AT&T's desire to "do anything it takes" to remain tied to Apple can only benefit Apple.

I often get 4 or 5 a day, and that's in a zone with 4 bars. AT&T is wretched. On Verizon I could count the number of dropped calls in a year on one hand. With AT&T, that's the count for a week at most, and often only a day or two, and we're talking about in major metro areas and on major traffic arteries. AT&T's coverage is unacceptably crappy, and Apple's own image is being tarnished by association - I love the iPhone interface, but I think it that as a practical matter, it often sucks as a phone because it gets such sporadic coverage and drops calls constantly.

[-hh]

Petition to.... who exactly?

They're not doing anything illegal. They own the towers, they own the signals, according to the contracts in many cases they even own the phones...

You may not like it, but they're not doing anything unlawful. Gotta love capitalism :)

Actually, if you compare the USA to other Markets (eg, Europe), you'll find that the US Government's "hands off" policy ... deferring to pure capitalism ... has resulted in higher costs to the consumer, since the result was that we've built out a couple of redundant yet incompatible networks (eg, GSM, CDMA) which ultimately have to be paid for by the consumer. Ditto for future upgrades, too.


So basically, someone please show me how competition has made this better. The only competition that worked out was at the extreme low end. For people who would like about 200 minutes/month with all the rollover and stuff from AT&T and then adding a very limited data plan, THERE IS NO OPTION. Why would opening the iPhone to all carriers be any different?

I agree: it wouldn't be any assurance of pro-consumer. The USA mobile carriers are in some ways an Oligopoly, since very few of them step out of line. For example, if you want a minimalist cost service, you're effectively forced to go to the hassles of a pay-as-you-go. Since none of them are interested in making their money through a $25/mo "100 minutes" plan, they've effectively conspired to put the minimum cost of convenience in services at $50/month (after taxes).

Couple of things surprised me:

1) That there is no term limit in which, once you have owned the phone for a given period of time you can then unlock it.

Interesting. Given the not-just-a-phone utility of the iPhone, I'll have to remember to see if I can see about having that written in as a contract purchase requirement.

Verizon's coverage is best on the East Coast so that's understandable why you would want it.

I've had both a Verizon and an AT&T phone here on the East Coast for the past couple of years...I don't really see any real difference.

The big thing people are missing here with the exclusivity contract is this - there is no other GSM provider in the U.S. that would be able to use the phone with a traditional GSM frequency band for GPRS, EDGE, and 3G. T-Mobile uses an entirely different band that would kill connectivity in most parts of North America.

And you would then still have to dual-band if you wanted it to work in Europe too. How much size will that add?


Thank you!!! By far my biggest complaint about AT&T's California coverage. How the hell do you not have service on a MAJOR corridor through the state?! I was shocked to see my phone dropping to Edge and then no-service driving from Anaheim to Santa Cruz. No service on I-5?? The Hell?!

Strongly recommend that you provide this feedback to Apple (website was previously posted). Make sure to say in your feedback that Apple should bring this up in their negotiations with AT&T. Do it Tonight.


Thank you......you actually understand At&t is cheaper than verizon.

And even if one wants to argue that they're not...there's not really a huge difference to really debate. From a practical perspective, unless AT&T/Apple can get the monthly bill for an iPhone under $50 total, I'd just assume drop my personal cellphone entirely, keep my work blackberry (its "free") and pick up an iPod touch to replace my nano. This reconfiguration will pay for itself for me in <6 months and the loser will be the mobile company...and Apple's share of the monthly fee thereof. Afterall, an iPhone is going to be a lot more profitable for Apple than just a Touch.

...and versus the currently excessive monthly rates, I can take that extra money saved and buy myself a brand new Expresso machine...annually.

Currently, both of my service contracts are beyond their 2 year locks, so I have plenty of flexibility. If the economy is supposedly so bad, we should be seeing wonderful deals being offered by these cellular providers, if there really is true competition in the marketplace. Gosh, I'm still waiting.


-hh

[Digital Skunk]

In NYC, AT&T is very weak.

I have had sprint for 6 years and honestly, if the iPhone had come to them, i would've easily picked it up (though i've had some concerns of the phone but most are being addressed with Version 3.0)


As of now, i'm sticking with Sprint and their awesome 3G service and prices and getting a Palm Pre.

Same here for the same reasons including insurance on the phone. I will forever say that I am a clutz, and need that insurance to protect me from myself.

Not to mention that Sprint has already been rolling out 4G since the end of last year, with (supposedly...) 4G phones coming at the end of 09.

I hope that the Pre isn't fubared up by either Sprint or Palm. If it's not the cat's meow, then I fear Palm will have lost all of its fire... what little it had left after the Foleo.

[bedifferent]

Same here for the same reasons including insurance on the phone. I will forever say that I am a clutz, and need that insurance to protect me from myself.

Not to mention that Sprint has already been rolling out 4G since the end of last year, with (supposedly...) 4G phones coming at the end of 09.

I hope that the Pre isn't fubared up by either Sprint or Palm. If it's not the cat's meow, then I fear Palm will have lost all of its fire... what little it had left after the Foleo.

I worked behind the Genius desk at Apple SoHo. While Apple's official policy is no coverage for physically damaged iPhones, very rarely did we ever turn anyone away for a damaged phone that wasn't [officially] covered. Especially if the client admitted to the issue (and 9 times out of 10 it was obvious), myself as well as other Geniuses would replace the iPhone with the supply of refurbished [tested] iPhones. If the client blatantly lied and was looking for a fight, hate to state it but we may have been inclined in turning them away.

The lack of insurance for the iPhone was not Apple's decision but rather the insurance companies refusing to offer reasonable plans for the handsets. I do not know the specifics. Now that the iPhone has an established history, this may change.

[vvebsta]

For all of you opting for Verizon, I need to say this... Verizon is a greedy money grubbing corporation. Its true that they tend to have better coverage/reception than the competition, but the problem is they know it! Verizon is like the hot girl that knows she's hot so she uses it to get what she wants. If Apple went to Verizon, Verizon would whine and complain like a spoiled baby. Verizon likes getting away with charging 60 bucks a month for 5GBs of broadband. They love that people have to buy their proprietary phones. Heck Verizon even charges you to instant message! Apple won't want to make a special chipless phone or give up things like unlimited data and visual voicemail. If Apple came out with a phone plan for Verizon that matched what you get with AT&T, I'd be very surprised, and I too would switch. But I won't hold my breathe.

[bradl]

I would, but I like AT&T too much to see that smug Verizon guy with the nerd glasses holding an iPhone.

Achmed the Dead Terrorist took that punk out with his last bomb. ;)

BL.

[Digital Skunk]

The lack of insurance for the iPhone was not Apple's decision but rather the insurance companies refusing to offer reasonable plans for the handsets. I do not know the specifics. Now that the iPhone has an established history, this may change.

I can understand that, and I do hope that it does change. That alone would give me reason to start considering the switch to AT&T, even if the other half with her 15 years of Sprint decides to stay.

And given the way the policy changed on iPhone replacements (where a modest repair is $200-$300, and an extreme one causes you to get a new phone for $600-$700), they should have an insurance plan rolled out sometime soon one hopes.

[neemer5]

Negotiating with other carriers = competition = possibly better phone plans

What's wrong with that?

[butterfly0fdoom]

Uh, no, the commercials have not embedded it into our brains. Many of us ACTUALLY HAD Verizon, switched to AT&T for the iPhone, and now have 10x the number of dropped calls, many more uncovered areas, including in high traffic zones where you would not expect them, etc. It's not marketing - I WISH AT&T's network was even remotely comparable to Verizon's, but in California, it most assuredly isn't.

I live in California and used AT&T Wireless/Cingular/AT&T since I've had my first cellphone and, aside from the transition from the old AT&T network to the Cingular network after the buy-out, I have never had a single dropped call, and I've only not had reception in actually remote places. Friends of mine with Verizon have had more problems than I have. From my experience coupled with that of my friends', I'd say AT&T has the better network on the West Coast.

I personally think that Apple should extend their iPhone to a variaty of carriers.
~At&t
~Verizon
~T-mobile


:apple::cool::apple:

Here's the reality check:
- AT&T: it's a given since it already offers the iPhone
- Verizon: not happening for at least another 5 years when the LTE network has matured and been more fully implemented. And even then, it would depend on if Verizon implements SIM cards (which it likely will since Vodafone seems to be calling the shots). I find it unlikely that Apple would support CDMA, as it's a technology that's soon to be slowly replaced.
- T-Mobile: it's possible that Apple could offer an iPhone on T-Mobile, but it would be EDGE-only since T-Mobile is the only carrier that uses the 1700 band, and there are no quad-band radios that support that frequency (considering pretty much only one carrier in the world uses it, there really isn't any point in supporting it in a global device when the other GSM alternative has a larger network, is there?); UTMS ratios are global single-band (2100), T-mobile single-band (1700), or global tri-band (850/1900/2100).

Negotiating with other carriers = competition = possibly better phone plans

What's wrong with that?

UH. No. As someone else noted, the cellphone companies are effectively an oligopoly. Now, the smaller members, Sprint and T-Mobile, need to make up for their more lackluster networks by offering better bargains. The larger members, Verizon and AT&T, charge slightly more and people still use their networks anyway. If you haven't noticed, prices have actually been slowly creeping upwards for the most part. After AT&T's exclusivity for the RAZR ended and all the carriers started offering it, phone plan prices didn't get better. They simply didn't change.

[Diseal3]

Att is the best dam service I've had in my life. I don't feel "free" with CDMA carriers and I've always had sim cards that if i ever had a problem (Iphone included.) I would just swap out the card until i get it fixed. With a CDMA carrier, i would be out a little while. In addition my friends have verizon and they admit it's nothing special, my friends internet (VZ) is the same speed as mine if not only 1-2 secs. faster no more. On top of that VZ loves loading there phones with a bunch of un-needed **** firmware that apple being the logo raping company they are will 100% not let verizons logo rape their phones.

[McBeats]

I have no problems with AT&T. They all suck equally for what its worth.

I would love to get one on my verizon network (bleh) without having to switch, but your totally right my friend :)

[corywoolf]

There is no way that Apple will make a CDMA phone for just the US in order to go with Verizon.

Apple did make iTunes for Windows. Why not iPhone for CDMA? Does RIM have better engineers?

Now that Apple has become an established player in the mobile field, they no longer need AT&T. They could become their own cell provider in the US by buying bandwidth from other cell companies (and eventually building out their own cell tower infrastructure).

Being a 3G or 4G Internet & Phone service provider could be a very powerful tool for Apple. It would allow all their mobile Mac's to access the internet anywhere without worrying about WiFi, and would allow Apple to finally grab a share of the TV pie with AppleTV providing live television (news/sports) to compliment iTunes purchased TV shows and Movies.

MobileMe could be extended to function as a control panel for all your Internet, Phone and TV needs. Apple also already has the brick and mortar infrastructure nationwide to begin offering this type of service.

I'm sure this has come up as an option and if I were Apple, I would be considering it seriously.
Nice idea. Too much too soon for Apple though. That would be a recipe for disaster. It would be too bloated and quality would suffer. Expanding a company that quickly would be dangerous.
i mean T-Mobile literally has everything people want (like those sidekicks or custom phones) . so why not keep the iphone to ATT.
I am on T-Mobile... I want an iPhone... I am a person...
Google "hasty generalization".
yeah but even if AT&T contract does expire verizon customers still wouldn't be able to utilize because of the sim card situation Verizon Wireless uses CDMA which does not use SIM Cards. GSM like AT&T and T-Mobile are the only ones that use SIM Cards. wouldn't verizon have to go to a GSM setup

Why not a CDMA iPhone?

No AT&T service out where I live. Ditto for Verizon support! Otherwise I won't be able to have an iPhone. :(

Good example for the CDMA haters.

Your individual love/hatred for AT&T/Verizon/etc really doesn't matter. People have different preferences. There are areas where one network works better than the other. AT&T won't even give you service in many rural parts of the country. After the Alltel merger, Verizon will be the only major carrier in Das Hinterland. Don't laugh, there are many people out there who do want iPhones - I'll be one of them this summer.

Not to mention the fact that competition drives down prices and that CDMA isn't going anywhere for some time. I say an end to iPhone exclusivity is a win for everyone (except AT&T, anyway).

Well put.

[Rodimus Prime]

why are people getting so hung up on Apple could not do CMDA based phones. I have a feeling that it is a very VERY simple thing to make the phone. The iPhone GSM phone is not running off any special chip. It is running off same chips many other phones for for GSM. The sim cart part of it is nothing special. Mind you I love the sim card in my ATT phone which I have used it to jump between multiple phones.

Not like it effects the iPhone dropping the sim card. The iphone already does not use some of the best features of the sim card. One of those great features is saving your address book to the sim card and pulling the address book off of it. So no lost there.

[DougB541]

Same here for the same reasons including insurance on the phone. I will forever say that I am a clutz, and need that insurance to protect me from myself.

Not to mention that Sprint has already been rolling out 4G since the end of last year, with (supposedly...) 4G phones coming at the end of 09.

I hope that the Pre isn't fubared up by either Sprint or Palm. If it's not the cat's meow, then I fear Palm will have lost all of its fire... what little it had left after the Foleo.

Their fire has been stagnated by poor management I would imagine. I do wonder how long it took before they settled on WebOS...as I remember seeing an early prototype of the unamed new Palm OS and it certainly was not WebOs but essentially looked like a true updated PalmOS....i'm glad they went back to the lab after the iPhone. or whenever.

It would be hard to imagine the Pre being a bad phone as they know there company depends on its success. And if it succeeds and more models do indeed come out, I think there is going to be a true rebirth of the mobile phone industry with Andriod 1.5 iPhone v3.0 and RIM moving forward.

Hell, i'll even say i'm anticipating windows mobile 7 tho I hate winmo in general.

[DougB541]

why are people getting so hung up on Apple could not do CMDA based phones. I have a feeling that it is a very VERY simple thing to make the phone. The iPhone GSM phone is not running off any special chip. It is running off same chips many other phones for for GSM. The sim cart part of it is nothing special. Mind you I love the sim card in my ATT phone which I have used it to jump between multiple phones.

Not like it effects the iPhone dropping the sim card. The iphone already does not use some of the best features of the sim card. One of those great features is saving your address book to the sim card and pulling the address book off of it. So no lost there.

You are correct. Its just a different antenna.

I used to have Nextel which had Sim cards...my only issues with sim cards is if you lose your phone, don't even bother trying to find it. Because its so easy to swap out phones, people often steal sim based phones to sell or keep for their own.

I had two nextels stolen which sucked. With Sprint now, since you have the ability to lock an ESN number and people know this, i've had someone call my father from my address book if I left a phone in a cab or something.

Besides, for 3G CDMA is def. the better network. We'll see what happens with 4G...i dunno how i feel about Wi-max with sprint but I think it would be smarter for them just to go the LTE route with the rest of America.

[jnguyen4]

let it stay on at&t. i don't like the pricing packages much, but i don't wanna see iphones in every single pocket in america.

[Bubba Satori]

let it stay on at&t. i don't like the pricing packages much, but i don't wanna see iphones in every single pocket in america.


Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

[carlvz]

I've been reading these posts and my reaction is that you all are thinking too much "inside the box"

There are many, many cell phone companies in the US. It's true that most of them are retailers that use the few major "networks" but they are competitors nonetheless, and offer a wide variety of packages. So, if you don't like ATT OR Verizon, buy your service from another company that uses their network, if you have complaints about the service or contracts of "one of the big 4". If you don't like the network itself, choose a different company AND a different network.

I like Verizon's network. I didn't like their fee structure or their contracts, so I have my service with another provider that uses their network, has excellent customer service, and no fees. Now, I just need an iPhone that will work on that network.

Don't get stuck thinking that there are only 4 options. If Apple's exclusive commitment to ATT ends, then you could buy an iPhone, sign up with a different company that uses ATT's network if you like, and avoid their bad customer service and the surcharge they add to your bill every month that they didn't include in their stated price.

But, we gotta let Apple know we want the option. Tell them, at apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

[terryzx]

let it stay on at&t. i don't like the pricing packages much, but i don't wanna see iphones in every single pocket in america.

Isn’t that called BEING A SNOB?

[jnguyen4]

Isn’t that called BEING A SNOB?

how is that being a snob? do you want every person to have something u do?

[terryzx]

how is that being a snob? do you want every person to have something u do?

All that I actually CARE about is have a GREAT PHONE that WORKS

I have a great Mac computer also and a LOT of other people I know have the exact same one and that is real nice as we can compare the things that we do on them.

I think that eventually multi-player games will make it VERY worthwhile for people to have similar iPhones

Being able to go to the mall or movies/parties and say to everyone: LOOK WHAT I HAVE AND YOU DON’T....is just NOT part of my nature, although for SOME people it is the ONLY thing they are secure enough in their own life to LIVE to do

[DougB541]

how is that being a snob? do you want every person to have something u do?

I think you just answered your own question hehe.

[weezer160]

I have no problems with AT&T. They all suck equally for what its worth.

Put them in blind tests and nobody would be able to tell them apart, like bottled and tap water.

[DougB541]

Put them in blind tests and nobody would be able to tell them apart, like bottled and tap water.

1. I can easily tell bottled and tap water apart. Its really not that hard as there is a distinct difference.

2. networks are all different. GSM vs CDMA has a different voice "quality' to it...I can't say which one is better as everyone has their opinion. 3G is also currently faster on CDMA (but AT&T keeps pumping juice in their 3G network so good for them).


I don't know what T-mobile is up to really.

[rjohnstone]

You are correct. Its just a different antenna.

:rolleyes:
There's more to it than just the antennae.
It's a completely different radio and new programming for the OS to utilize it.
This would also require a new board design to accommodate the new chip.

[dogzilla]

To all the folks who seem to think that an Apple/Verizon deal would result in a heavily Verizon-branded iPhone:

You must not have a lot of experience with how Apple & Steve Jobs operate. Take a look at the Pixar/Disney relationship, and then take a look at the relationship Disney had with any other animation houses. Jobs would not hesitate to kill the iPhone before he allowed it to become branded with any other company's logo. The iPhone (and all Apple products) are all-Apple. Look for any other corporate logo *at all* on the iPhone. You won't find one, because Apple forbids it. It may seem subtle, but notice that noone speaks of the AT&T iPhone, or the Orange iPhone. They talk about the Apple iPhone.

[MacVixen]

<snip>

Strongly recommend that you provide this feedback to Apple (website was previously posted). Make sure to say in your feedback that Apple should bring this up in their negotiations with AT&T. Do it Tonight.

<snip again>

-hh

Good advice! Done!! :D

[MikeTheC]

One good thing about AT&T seeking the extension is that it puts the ball in Apple's court.

Always negotiate from a position of strength, never from one of weakness.

I don't own an iPhone (as mentioned earlier) but as a long-term Apple customer, obviously I'm interested to see how this pans out.

[MacManiac76]

From what I remember reading a while back, Verizon was Apple's first choice as carrier for the iPhone. Verizon ended up declining the offer due to the fact that Apple wanted too much control over the partnership. I'm sure Verizon is kicking themselves in the ass about it now. At least Apple came out with the iPod Touch for those that can't/won't use AT&T. The Touch has most of the features that make the iPhone great anyway.

[JimAtLaw]

I live in California and used AT&T Wireless/Cingular/AT&T since I've had my first cellphone and, aside from the transition from the old AT&T network to the Cingular network after the buy-out, I have never had a single dropped call, and I've only not had reception in actually remote places. Friends of mine with Verizon have had more problems than I have. From my experience coupled with that of my friends', I'd say AT&T has the better network on the West Coast.
Dude, it's already been established by more than 1 poster here that you can't even drive to L.A. on the 5 without dropping calls and substantial coverage holes on AT&T, so apparently you just don't get out much. I have had both services, Verizon and AT&T, at the same time in the same places, living in D.C., Los Angeles, and the Bay Area, and comparing your experience on AT&T to what you think your friends' experiences are is not the same as having and observing both yourself. At my current house on the peninsula in a highly populated area, my AT&T signal fluctuates wildly from 4 bars to zero and I drop calls constantly. My Verizon phone did not do this in any of the places I owned or used it, including here, and on Verizon I even had service in the subway in D.C., which AT&T did not. The coverage and reliability of AT&T's network is simply not comparable.

[ravenvii]

Despite all this arguing about how AT&T sucks or doesn't suck, AT&T is the best choice for a GSM/3G carrier right now. Verizon and Sprint uses CDMA, which is a dead technology, and T-Mobile's service has less coverage than AT&T. So even if the exclusivity agreement ends, I'll probably still stick with AT&T for the time being.

That is, until Verizon switches to LTE, along with AT&T. Then things will get interesting between Verizon and AT&T, and then I'll hope that the exclusivity ends, and I can choose which company actually has the best network (not just the best network using x technology).

[oammi2]

Despite all the bickering over what network is best we all must remember that AT&T has the most technologically advanced network currently in the U.S.
Also for the record AT&T is developing LTE as well as Verizon as stated by others. So in reality it doesn't really matter who carries the iPhone if you truly want an iPhone you will switch to AT&T for the time being.
I am reading post after post about how AT&T sucks verizon, T-mobile is better. Do you honestly have nothing better to do but act like a 5 yr. old and throw a tantrum just because the iPhone isn't carried by your preferred network.
Grow up! Act like an adult and make a valid point about why the iPhone should be carried by your network.
I have had cellphones from many different carriers and AT&T has proven the best for my needs. I know it will not for everyone. So either you want the iPhone and are willing to switch or you don't really want it all that badly and would rather stick with your current network.
On a side note those of you complaining about alot of dropped calls, if your area does not have very good 3G coverage the iPhones have a habit of dropping calls when switching between Edge and 3G. This has happened to me with all my 3G phones before I had the iPhone. My advice unless you use the internet capabilities constantly turn off 3G.

[iPhoneNYC]

End exclusivity - the App Store is a great example of how the iPhone has grown to have something specific for all users by many, many developers getting into the act. ATT has had two years to improve its system where it is lacking and it is very slow to improve. I think it would be best to let the contract end and have the iPhone offered by multiple carriers. Each carrier would have to accept Apple's criteria. So instead of reading how ATT sucks in this area or another carrier is better in that area the customer could have the option of switching.

[macaliseme]

:eek: :eek:

*buys an airline ticket to New Zealand*

:D

For a 16GB model it is around US$652.50 including GST.

[nt5672]

Not sure who causes which suckyness, but here it is.

1. Lost job, need to pair back data plan on iphone. NO WAY
2. Express Card failed, need to tether iPhone. NO WAY
3. 5 bars at home, receive important call, 2 bars, then usualy drop (Chicago suburbs)
4. 5 bars at client, get ready to make important phone call (5pm) NO WAY will not connect.
5. Travel out of the country, need to put local SIM in. NO WAY Pay $3.00 per minute to receive telemarketing call.

I'm sorry but I bought the phone. So please provide the following:
a. tethering
b. unlocking (or unlocking after 12 months, or just something.)
c. I could care less about exclusivity, but unlock the phone for international travelers. Paying ATT when not even using their network is highway robbery.
d. Fix the fr@#$% network.

[bedifferent]

Despite all the bickering over what network is best we all must remember that AT&T has the most technologically advanced network currently in the U.S.
Also for the record AT&T is developing LTE as well as Verizon as stated by others. So in reality it doesn't really matter who carries the iPhone if you truly want an iPhone you will switch to AT&T for the time being.
I am reading post after post about how AT&T sucks verizon, T-mobile is better. Do you honestly have nothing better to do but act like a 5 yr. old and throw a tantrum just because the iPhone isn't carried by your preferred network.
Grow up! Act like an adult and make a valid point about why the iPhone should be carried by your network.
I have had cellphones from many different carriers and AT&T has proven the best for my needs. I know it will not for everyone. So either you want the iPhone and are willing to switch or you don't really want it all that badly and would rather stick with your current network.
On a side note those of you complaining about alot of dropped calls, if your area does not have very good 3G coverage the iPhones have a habit of dropping calls when switching between Edge and 3G. This has happened to me with all my 3G phones before I had the iPhone. My advice unless you use the internet capabilities constantly turn off 3G.

This quote should be posted for every thread. Especially threads pertaining to Mac OS X vs. Windows OS and anything to do with politics (I am so tired of the ridiculous comments on YouTube, it makes my head spin and heart hurt to see the nation divided by bipartisan politics to the point where every one is fighting each other).

[ohiomacfan]

Where does this 2010 date come from? Apple knew when they were negotiating with ATT that customers would sign up for a 2 year deal. That was June 2007. Then a new iPhone in 2008. An extra year for exclusive with ATT? So really we are looking at June of 2010, not six months from the June 2009 release of the new iPhone? So for those of us not wanting ATT, we have to wait another year and two months :( A few have implied that January 2010 would open the flood gates to other carriers. . . Do I have to wait 8 months or 14?

[butterfly0fdoom]

Dude, it's already been established by more than 1 poster here that you can't even drive to L.A. on the 5 without dropping calls and substantial coverage holes on AT&T, so apparently you just don't get out much. I have had both services, Verizon and AT&T, at the same time in the same places, living in D.C., Los Angeles, and the Bay Area, and comparing your experience on AT&T to what you think your friends' experiences are is not the same as having and observing both yourself. At my current house on the peninsula in a highly populated area, my AT&T signal fluctuates wildly from 4 bars to zero and I drop calls constantly. My Verizon phone did not do this in any of the places I owned or used it, including here, and on Verizon I even had service in the subway in D.C., which AT&T did not. The coverage and reliability of AT&T's network is simply not comparable.

Verizon having service in the subways has more to do with the properties of CDMA; it's part of why Verizon is generally a better option for places like New York where buildings can mess up the cell signals.

That said, I go between Socal and Norcal often (being that I go between home and school often enough). Among things, I sure as hell don't stare at my phone while driving (there are more important things to do, like drive), but I actually have never encountered an area along the 5 were I had signal problems. I live just north of San Jose, I go to school near the northern city limits of San Diego. In both locations, I only have signal problems when I'm in any sort of basement. My own experience has been problem-free for the most part. And just like there are people with issues with AT&T, there are people with issues with Verizon. Clearly, in your experience, Verizon's network worked out to be better for you.

[aristobrat]

Verizon having service in the subways has more to do with the properties of CDMA; it's part of why Verizon is generally a better option for places like New York where buildings can mess up the cell signals.
FWIW, in regards to Verizon in the DC Metro (subway), here's a press release from about two months ago that explains how Verizon got that contract in the first place, and how all carriers will be providing service in the DC Metro.

http://wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=2479
Four major cell phone companies -- Verizon Wireless, Sprint Nextel, AT&T and T-Mobile -- will build a new wireless infrastructure in the underground rail system during the next four years.

In 1993, Metro agreed to allow Bell Atlantic Mobile Systems, which later became Verizon Wireless, to build and own the current wireless network. In exchange, Verizon built a public safety radio communications system for Metro. Verizon also has been paying annual fees to Metro.

[JimAtLaw]

Verizon having service in the subways has more to do with the properties of CDMA; it's part of why Verizon is generally a better option for places like New York where buildings can mess up the cell signals.

That said, I go between Socal and Norcal often (being that I go between home and school often enough). Among things, I sure as hell don't stare at my phone while driving (there are more important things to do, like drive), but I actually have never encountered an area along the 5 were I had signal problems.
Nice try kid, but stretch your brain to imagine that some people actually drive with others, and I can sometimes even "stare at my phone" while I'm using it as someone else drives! Who'd a thunk it!

Of course, I don't need to stare to know there are network problems when my calls drop and/or I'm unable to make or receive one for miles at a stretch. (G-d forbid you should ever break down in one of those zones, as your AT&T service will not be there to call AAA - you'll have plenty of time to stare at your phone in vain hoping for a signal to miraculously return.) I have taken lots of long working calls on these trips, and I assure you, AT&T has substantial service issues on the 5. (Not that Verizon is completely without holes or problems nationwide, but they're a fraction of AT&T's and only very rarely have I had AT&T service but not Verizon.)

In any event, you ignored the primary point - if you haven't had both at the same time, you can't compare, you can only speculate. I have had both, for years, and experienced them simultaneously all over the country. I'm glad for you that you are lucky enough not to have experienced many of AT&T's service holes and dropped calls, but speaking as one who unlike you, has extensive simultaneous experience with both providers, AT&T's service is not comparable to Verizon's.

[bedifferent]

Nice try kid, but stretch your brain to imagine that some people actually drive with others, and I can sometimes even "stare at my phone" while I'm using it as someone else drives! Who'd a thunk it!

Real mature. Sorry, but I disagree. I've never seen any reception area's bad enough to need to comment about it. If my only issue in life is that I lose mobile reception for a few minutes, than I need to reevaluate my life. :rolleyes:

[JimAtLaw]

Real mature. Sorry, but I disagree. I've never seen any reception area's bad enough to need to comment about it. If my only issue in life is that I lose mobile reception for a few minutes, than I need to reevaluate my life. :rolleyes:
Hey, I'm not the one implying someone would only notice reception problems by staring at their phone while driving. And if you've never taken an important meeting on your phone such that losing reception for a few minutes is a problem, good for you, but some of us use our phones for work and losing our connections repeatedly is a real annoyance. (Not to mention not having service when you break down on the side of the road.) It's obvious that some folks love AT&T and don't want competition, so fine, but don't tell me AT&T is great - I've had other service, at the same time and in the same place, for years, and their connectivity is simply not equivalent.

[Digital Skunk]

....Verizon and Sprint uses CDMA, which is a dead technology, ....

Dead yet AT&T hasn't even begun to come close to the speeds of either of their networks.

Truth is, in the world standpoint the US has the slowest cell network of most developed countries, and in the US AT&T has a pretty slow and flimsy, swiss cheese network.

I am all for putting the iPhone on "X" network for "X" reason but on a purely network and services (not just reception) AT&T was the fourth best choice.

[michaelsviews]

Despite all the bickering over what network is best we all must remember that AT&T has the most technologically advanced network currently in the U.S.
Also for the record AT&T is developing LTE as well as Verizon as stated by others. So in reality it doesn't really matter who carries the iPhone if you truly want an iPhone you will switch to AT&T for the time being.
I am reading post after post about how AT&T sucks verizon, T-mobile is better. Do you honestly have nothing better to do but act like a 5 yr. old and throw a tantrum just because the iPhone isn't carried by your preferred network.
Grow up! Act like an adult and make a valid point about why the iPhone should be carried by your network.
I have had cellphones from many different carriers and AT&T has proven the best for my needs. I know it will not for everyone. So either you want the iPhone and are willing to switch or you don't really want it all that badly and would rather stick with your current network.
On a side note those of you complaining about alot of dropped calls, if your area does not have very good 3G coverage the iPhones have a habit of dropping calls when switching between Edge and 3G. This has happened to me with all my 3G phones before I had the iPhone. My advice unless you use the internet capabilities constantly turn off 3G.

Welcome Newb

This is a forum, and people post what they want and see, experience and more. For some people AT&T's network is horrrible. There 3G is so limited next to Verizon's that it will be a long time before they catch up.

There are people that have AT&T for 1, reason and that is the iPhone. If you do not like the opinions and experiences of people voicing this on here, than what was the purpose of signing up? Are you an AT&T rep? Maybe a forum TROLL.

Have a great day and enjoy AT&T's limited network. More bars in more places, No its call force the older GSM carriers to sell with false promise's of AT&T coming in and making the network better and than finding out that they cant do it like they thought.

Google is your friend.:apple:

[kdarling]

If a tree falls in the forest with no one to hear it, does it make a sound?

Likewise, if Apple doesn't intend to make a CDMA version for Verizon or Sprint, then what's all the hullabaloo about an exclusivity contract with ATT?

Seriously... just to keep it out of T-Mobile users' hands ?!? :rolleyes:

Sounds more like a PR gimmick.

[Boneoh]

I live in So. Cal. and have had just about every cell provider at one time or another. There are problems with all of them. With regard to cell phone coverage in my area, AT&T has been by far the worst in my experience. I have settled on Verizon a couple of years ago, and have great coverage in the area. I bought my wifey an iPhone a couple of years ago, she has problems all the time. Sometimes she has to go on the back porch to make a call.:(

If/When Apple decides to go with Verizon, I am in. Until then, it's just wait and see...

[rjohnstone]

I am all for putting the iPhone on "X" network for "X" reason but on a purely network and services (not just reception) AT&T was the fourth best choice.

From a coverage perspective here in Phoenix, Verizon and Sprint/NextHELL absolutely blow.
AT&T and T-Mobile have far better quality of service.

As with all cell providers, it all depends on where YOU are at the time you are using the service.

[cjm3113]

Dead yet AT&T hasn't even begun to come close to the speeds of either of their networks.

Truth is, in the world standpoint the US has the slowest cell network of most developed countries, and in the US AT&T has a pretty slow and flimsy, swiss cheese network.

I am all for putting the iPhone on "X" network for "X" reason but on a purely network and services (not just reception) AT&T was the fourth best choice.

In my area AT&T is far and away the best choice. People would laugh at you for even considering Sprint or T-Mobile and Verizon can go either way depending who you talk to.

It is 100% relative to where you are.

[zephyrnoid]

ATT is the premier telecom spy channel for the US Gov. I will wait to buy an iPhone till a carrier not associated with espionage on Americans gets the contract for service. :D
I'm compiling a list of the carriers that were complicit in sharing private phone traffic data with the NSA et alia as part of the so-called war on terror.

[None Such]

6 people in my family, myself being one of them, would have an iPhone if it wasn't exlusive to AT&T. It's not just the data plan, it's the rate plans overall. The big sticking point with my wife is the mins. Not nearly enough for her. we can get 1000 shared mins with sprint to sprint for $60. AT&T is 450 mins individually for $50. Plus the "free nights and weekends" starts at 9 instead of 7 like we have with Sprint. And the nights and weekend mins are limited.

With the Palm Pre coming out and other carriers closing the gap that the iPhone once had, Apple needs to open the iphone up to other carriers to increase/hold it's sales. Apple has put their phone on the map now, they can set their terms. Verison etc.. isn't in a position to demand it's interface on the iPhone. Carriers will bend to Job's will to get the iPhone. I desperately want an iPhone but if Apple is going to keep it exclusive on a network that has expensive rate plans, that don't offer many minutes, then I'll just buy a Pre.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Carriers will bend to Job's will to get the iPhone.

If I weren't in class right now, I would have burst out laughing at that comment.

Again:
- Verizon will have an LTE network that Apple will support. But coverage will be beyond spotty because it will be a newly established network and Apple is unlikely to include CDMA radios for fallback.
- T-Mobile offers Sprint-like rates, but because of their wonky frequencies, there would only be EDGE speeds at best, and T-Mobile's network is smaller than AT&T's, so that doesn't really solve network coverage issues.
- Sprint's just going off on their WiMax tangent which Apple isn't going to support.

THEREFORE. If Apple drops the exclusivity contract, until LTE rollout has matured, the only network where you'd get good coverage is AT&T. So Apple actually doesn't even need to give AT&T exclusivity; such a contract merely prohibits Apple from developing a CDMA iPhone, something even Verizon doesn't think would happen.

[Chip NoVaMac]

6 people in my family, myself being one of them, would have an iPhone if it wasn't exlusive to AT&T. It's not just the data plan, it's the rate plans overall. The big sticking point with my wife is the mins. Not nearly enough for her. we can get 1000 shared mins with sprint to sprint for $60. AT&T is 450 mins individually for $50. Plus the "free nights and weekends" starts at 9 instead of 7 like we have with Sprint. And the nights and weekend mins are limited.

With the Palm Pre coming out and other carriers closing the gap that the iPhone once had, Apple needs to open the iphone up to other carriers to increase/hold it's sales. Apple has put their phone on the map now, they can set their terms. Verison etc.. isn't in a position to demand it's interface on the iPhone. Carriers will bend to Job's will to get the iPhone. I desperately want an iPhone but if Apple is going to keep it exclusive on a network that has expensive rate plans, that don't offer many minutes, then I'll just buy a Pre.

I hear you... my thinking is that Apple allowing for multiple carriers would allow for competition in pricing.

My sister is loving what the iPhone can do; and I would love to add her to my account. But the individual pricing is the killer for us - we shared minutes on Sprint in the past. Data plans are a different thing though we agree. Given the current economy, ATT AND Apple needs to rethink some of their pricing plans. Given the two year anniversary of the iPhone; there are some of us that are rethinking our needs and our budgets this summer.

About the Pre and others; I have looked at some of the current offerings out there - they don't meet up to the iPhone IMO. You have a point about Verizon based on postings I have seen though. It would be a big leap for them to let Apple control the interface. But the current numbers of iPhone sales world-wide may make Verizon rethink things.

I know in my case living in the DC area; I would switch to Verizon this summer when my contract with ATT on my iPhone is over. Why? Friends and Family hopefully. But more so in our Metro subway line, Verizon is is the carrier of choice right now. Heck, I might switch back to Sprint, since under my plan I had roaming on the subway on Verizon's network.

Apple may need to look at Apps as being a reason to generate some extra $ in an iPhone sale on another network. As we are hearing in some comments about some rumors about ATT wanting an extension in terms; they are looking at their "cash cow" leaving.

[Digital Skunk]

If I weren't in class right now, I would have burst out laughing at that comment.

Again:
- Verizon will have an LTE network that Apple will support. But coverage will be beyond spotty because it will be a newly established network and Apple is unlikely to include CDMA radios for fallback.
- T-Mobile offers Sprint-like rates, but because of their wonky frequencies, there would only be EDGE speeds at best, and T-Mobile's network is smaller than AT&T's, so that doesn't really solve network coverage issues.
- Sprint's just going off on their WiMax tangent which Apple isn't going to support.

THEREFORE. If Apple drops the exclusivity contract, until LTE rollout has matured, the only network where you'd get good coverage is AT&T. So Apple actually doesn't even need to give AT&T exclusivity; such a contract merely prohibits Apple from developing a CDMA iPhone, something even Verizon doesn't think would happen.

producing a dual band phone is not beyond Apple's desire to make money from suckers..... I mean customers of their devices.

Don't put Apple's desire to make even more money off their cash cow into a box. Not saying there will be a CDMA phone, or it will be on Verizon, just that it's not anything but timing for Apple right now.

[butterfly0fdoom]

producing a dual band phone is not beyond Apple's desire to make money from suckers..... I mean customers of their devices.

Don't put Apple's desire to make even more money off their cash cow into a box. Not saying there will be a CDMA phone, or it will be on Verizon, just that it's not anything but timing for Apple right now.

Well, it is possible for Apple to later on make a UTMS/EV-DO/LTE phone if Apple feels it's worth it, but I don't see support for AWS ever occurring unless the antenna manufacturers start making quad-band UTMS radios or if Apple decided that it's worth it to demand such a radio to accommodate a rather small carrier.

But I still don't think it's likely, especially considering the timing of the imminent LTE roll-out. If even Verizon deems it unlikely....

[Digital Skunk]

Well, it is possible for Apple to later on make a UTMS/EV-DO/LTE phone if Apple feels it's worth it, but I don't see support for AWS ever occurring unless the antenna manufacturers start making quad-band UTMS radios or if Apple decided that it's worth it to demand such a radio to accommodate a rather small carrier.

But I still don't think it's likely, especially considering the timing of the imminent LTE roll-out. If even Verizon deems it unlikely....

I am merely speaking about the ability to do so. Not so much the likelihood.

[butterfly0fdoom]

I am merely speaking about the ability to do so. Not so much the likelihood.

Oh, well the ability to support AWS is dependent on suppliers, not Apple, at any rate.

[BigPrince]

I hope they turn their back on ATT.