Verizon iPhone More Likely When 4G Networks Arrive in 2010

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/16/verizon-iphone-more-likely-when-4g-networks-arrive-in-2010/)

The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123991010146926199.html) on comments made by Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg on a broad number of topics surrounding the company.

Of interest to readers, however, is the fact that Seidenberg addressed the possibility of Apple's iPhone coming to the Verizon network.Mr. Seidenberg also addressed the notion of Apple Inc.'s iPhone ever coming to the Verizon Wireless network, saying it is more likely that Apple would be willing to work with the carrier under the fourth-generation, or 4G, network, which follows the same technology standard as AT&T Inc.'s 4G plans. He said Apple never seriously considered making a CDMA version of the iPhone because it didn't have as wide a distribution opportunity.CDMA is the technology behind Verizon's current cellular network and prevents the current Apple iPhone from running on their network. In order to accommodate Verizon, Apple would have to release a modified (CDMA) iPhone which Seidenberg seems to think was never likely.

Verizon plans to launch (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10209933-51.html) their 4G network in 2010, conveniently near the time AT&T's exclusivity expires (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/atandt-exclusivity-expires-in-2010-atandt-asking-for-extension/).

Article Link: Verizon iPhone More Likely When 4G Networks Arrive in 2010 (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/16/verizon-iphone-more-likely-when-4g-networks-arrive-in-2010/)

[iMacoo7]

If ATT does not get an extension, maybe they will come up with a deal where they still use ATT but the iPhone can be on other networks as well.
It seems logical.

[MrM]

This would be awesome.

[iOrlando]

steve will invite him for dinner when it is time to talk

[Frisco]

If the iPhone ever goes Verizon it's game over for the rest.

[pismodude2]

Yeah! Screw AT&T! I get no service where I live, and they overcharge a lot. Here's hoping Verison keeps it under $80/month ;)

[LanPhantom]

I work for Verizon and that sounds like a good plan for them. It will provide for time to get the 4G network rolled out and tested... Then.... Bring on the iPhone to make USE of it.

Nice job Ivan we're all behind you!

[iMacoo7]

If the iPhone ever goes Verizon it's game over for the rest.

I actually think they will offer the iphone to T-Mobile as well. They would not have to alter anything, just make the iPhone unlocked (GSM Version) which might potentially open up the flood gates but the way the iPhone is supposedly going to reach the china market (Where supposedly allot of unlocked iphones were floating around) and the iphone has already filtered in other countries, I actually think it will reduce allot of the need to unlock.

Making a move to Verizon,T-Mobile would be a nice move.
I have family that stay in places where Verizon is the only service that works, some were T-Mobile only works.

So maybe they have been waiting until Verizon gets their situation taken care of before making an initial leap or maybe we are all wrong and Apple sticks with ATT for another couple of years (If Apple is coming out with a netbook, maybe the opposed netbook will not be with ATT and that is why they are asking for an extension).... Questions and answers to what it could or could not be....Guess we all will have to wait for the final verdict

[Glideslope]

If the iPhone ever goes Verizon it's game over for the rest.

In a BIG way. I could join my family again!!!!

[Silencio]

Well, we'll see whether ATT or VZW gets their LTE network up to snuff quicker. If VZW can deliver the network and decides to carry the iPhone without crippling it like they have done to every other half-decent handset they've had, then I would consider switching over. Nothing wrong with some healthy competition.

What 4G technology is T-Mobile going to be implementing? They currently provide 3G on a band that the iPhone doesn't support.

[ProwlingTiger]

Oh that's good. That way the iPhone can sport a hindered version.

I seriously just got done with speaking to a Verizon rep not 20 minutes ago. My Storm had a host of issues, which they tried to direct me to their "tech" support.

They claimed (there were 4 idle employees) that their Storms worked. I said well it must be an exclusive employee version because half the time this phone has a mind of its own.

All I wanted originally was some earbuds as the ones that come with the Storm are the cheapest damn things i've ever seen. Mine broke in a way I cannot contemplate how.

Even walking in, I had to touch the screen of a computer about 4 times to create a *ding* to get a salesperson. From there, I knew they didn't want my business.

Granted this was not my usual location of store, I was at a different side of town. But where I'm from, just walking into the store you're greeted and fought over by at least 3 employees.

I was greeted to the image of a man's as*. An employee was, and I kid you now, crouching on a kiosk / computer desk deal, working on something. Apparently it was a slow day.

But, that's not the typical Verizon experience. I'm just ranting.

...

But I seriously don't want a CDMA iPhone. It provides healthy competition that other makers and other companies need to learn to match. Except the idea of an all iPhone world is appealing...*runs to Photoshop*

[RidleyGriff]

The differing technologies of CDMA/GSM in the U.S. have been a big hindrance to both innovation and the widespread proliferation of wireless technology. Getting one standard going will be great for our wireless industry overall.

However, part of me suspects that without the artificial differentiator of tech inside the phone, phone-specific exclusives and long-term contracts will become even more important for carriers looking to lock in their base.

It will be very interesting to see how this develops. Without some sort of reasonable regulation in play here, I don't have a lot of faith in the carriers doing the right thing. Allowing people to network hop based purely on things like quality of service provided would just be too honest and logical for these companies.

[JB413]

Sounds too good to be true. But that would be awesome!

[Doju]

Wow, imagine the impact if the above suggestion became valid.

iPhone stays on AT&T, but gets unlocked to T-Mobile also. Finally, it gets added to Verizon.

Sprint dies. :o

I'm Canadian so I could care less, but cool!

I have a plan on Rogers with 0.5GB data, unlimited calling, texting, visual voicemail, caller ID, who called, call forwarding and something else for $45/mo.

:D

[greenpaz]

Precisely when does the contract between Apple and AT&T expire? The article says 2010. Is that January 2010? June? December? It matters a lot to those of us who want to take the iPhone plunge but fear we're going to be stuck with AT&T for 18 more months while new iPhone customers enjoy the much more reliable Verizon network (which I have now). So, a little specificity would be nice.

[fishkorp]

Verizon won't have anything close to a nationwide rollout of LTE in 2010 though (even though they're starting this year), and the phones still have to fall back on CDMA, whereas the AT&T LTE phones fall back on GSM. I can see an LTE phone working on BOTH once there is sufficient coverage. I can't really see a Verizon LTE iPhone in 2010 unless they really move their ass in rolling it out. 2011 or 2012 certainly. 2010 seems too soon. If they offer all customers femtocell base stations at least they can get coverage in their houses, lol.

Don't forget AT&T is supposedly starting their LTE rollout in 2010 also.

[Eric S.]

I would definitely like to see the iPhone come to the Verizon network.

[ThomasJL]

I am a T-Mobile customer, and I love their service. It's one of best customer service experiences ever! :D

I was a former AT&T customer, and their customer service was a nightmare! :mad:

One bonehead move by T-Mobile, however, was when they chose to use a non-standard 3G service. It's not the same 3G standard that's used everywhere else in the world. I hope T-Mobile uses whatever 4G standard the rest of the world chooses.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Even Verizon now has stated that the iPhone is unlikely to appear on their network until the LTE roll-out and that even they don't think Apple saw any merit in a CDMA iPhone. Now can the naysayers stop whining until LTE is rolled out?

[iceman73]

Ha, conveniently? I think not!

[alexbates]

It's good to know that atleast Verizon has some interest. An iPhone on another network would be great.

[panaphobe]

Let's hope that Steve and Co. is able & willing to adhere to their strict no-carrier branding policy. I'd hate to see the Verizon version of the iPhone slathered in red Verizon branding, whether it be a big "Verizon" logo on the outside or on a startup/shutdown screen. I never quite understood why they had to have so much influence on something so insignificant and unnecessary.

[aprilfools]

Yeah! I’m patiently waiting for this to happen. I like and want to see the word iPhone and Verizon in the same sentence. I’m tired of all you over zealous AT& T subscribers. BTW….
AT&T can kiss my $%&*!!!!!!!!!

[formerpc]

Please!!!

[formerpc]

Yeah! I’m patiently waiting for this to happen. I like and want to see the word iPhone and Verizon in the same sentence. I’m tired of all you over zealous AT& T subscribers. BTW….
AT&T can kiss my $%&*!!!!!!!!!

Ooh... me likey! :D

lol

[11800506]

What doesn't make sense and makes you wonder if the CEO thought his statements through is that unless Verizon is secretly deploying an HSPDA network without public knowledge, this "LTE iPhone" would still have to support the legacy EVDO and 1x networks, which is practically the same as creating a CDMA iPhone. His statement just doesn't make much sense.

[designgeek]

Let's hope that Steve and Co. is able & willing to adhere to their strict no-carrier branding policy. I'd hate to see the Verizon version of the iPhone slathered in red Verizon branding, whether it be a big "Verizon" logo on the outside or on a startup/shutdown screen. I never quite understood why they had to have so much influence on something so insignificant and unnecessary.

Amen! If I hear "Get vCast on your Verizon phone" one more time i'm likely to vomit. As much as I don't like them I would like to see some competition to keep the price down.

[FightTheFuture]

want more marketshare in the US Apple? unlock and open up to the rest of the carriers. at&t footing half the bill was nice while it lasted but i'm sure the rest of them wouldn't mind being invited to the party. you can finish off you're checklist of hardware changes there :)

[iMacoo7]

Yeah! I’m patiently waiting for this to happen. I like and want to see the word iPhone and Verizon in the same sentence. I’m tired of all you over zealous AT& T subscribers. BTW….
AT&T can kiss my $%&*!!!!!!!!!

Why does a comment about the iPhone possibly coming to other carriers amount to "ALL" ATT subscribers being over zealous?
Do not put everyone that is with ATT as over zealous.
The service works from some and then ,From your comments,do not work for others.

[11800506]

Now regarding my previous statement, I would like the iPhone to come to Verizon (at least if it isn't a crippled version) as I'm currently on Verizon and debating switching to AT&T once my contract is up. However, it just doesn't seem likely based on his statements as this new iPhone would still have to support the CDMA network.

[darthraige]

This would rock. Hopefully Apple can make this announcement in June for next year.

[CuriousMacster]

Precisely when does the contract between Apple and AT&T expire? The article says 2010. Is that January 2010? June? December? It matters a lot to those of us who want to take the iPhone plunge but fear we're going to be stuck with AT&T for 18 more months while new iPhone customers enjoy the much more reliable Verizon network (which I have now). So, a little specificity would be nice.

Hard to know when "Precisely" it would come to Verizon but if I had my guess: If Apple and Verizon make a deal for next year it would most likely come out a year after this summers iPhone update, when they update it again. But that is pure speculation on my part so don't take me for an insider.

But I would love an iPhone but won't switch from Verizon myself. Where I live all other services are horrible.

[Stetrain]

want more marketshare in the US Apple? unlock and open up to the rest of the carriers. at&t footing half the bill was nice while it lasted but i'm sure the rest of them wouldn't mind being invited to the party. you can finish off you're checklist of hardware changes there :)

I don't think any other major US carriers support the standard GSM/3G that the iPhone supports. T-Mobile is the closest but they run their network on an odd frequency that makes it incompatible. An unlocked iPhone 3G in the US wouldn't really change anything.

[adamgalas]

Everyone seems to be forgetting the most important issue, Iphone subsidies.

Right now I can walk into an Apple store and for $200 get an 8 GB Iphone that puts my $230 Ipod Touch to shame.

Prior to subsidies the lowered price of an 8 GB Iphone was $400.

I read that AT&T has a non contracted Iphone option or soon will, with the price at $600!

I hope that other carriers subsidize just as well as AT&T because, no matter how cool the Iphone is, $600 upfront cost is freaking painful and will kill Iphone sales.

Of course, there shouldn't be a problem for Verizon to subsidize Iphones as AT&T does and just lock you into a contract.

Hell, let me have a $200/$300 Iphone with unlimited data and minimal talk for $60/month and I will sign a 3 year contract with a smile on my face!

Thought?

[fairpro]

years ago att used a truncated version of cdma called tdma. never quite made it. they were always one step behind even when they made computers using the 8600 chip.

this june rollout of supposed major improvements, to their service, better be good as the clock is ticking and they are on a short leash.

[Xavier]

I'd buy the iPhone on Verizon in a heart beat

[jamesybsu]

i hope this is true. Verizon always finds a way to disable hardware in phones so people are forced to pay for their services (gps, ringtones, bluetooth). I have a verizon wireless phone that is capable of gps and transferring data through bluetooth but verizon limits what I can do. Steve wouldn't let that fly!

Also it would be interesting to see how the app store would work, verizon would want a cut i'm sure.

[macfan881]

perfect if this true im currently on verizon but have been thinking jumping over to att just for the iphone but if it comes out its right when my current phone is expired anywhoo id be happy to stay on verizon if a iphone came :)

[jholzner]

Hell, let me have a $200/$300 Iphone with unlimited data and minimal talk for $60/month and I will sign a 3 year contract with a smile on my face!



You say that now but then a year after that you'll be saying they're screwing you over by not letting you upgrade to the new phone like a ton of the 3g owners on these forums that signed a two year contract but still want subsidized pricing on this years model.

[Sehnsucht]

Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait!!! :eek:

Right now I am 8 months into a 2-year contract with Verizon. I need a new phone (thinking about a BlackBerry Curve) but I'm not yet eligible for a free upgrade and can't see myself paying $500 for a phone that isn't made by Apple. :D

Yeah! Screw AT&T! I get no service where I live, and they overcharge a lot. Here's hoping Verizon keeps it under $80/month ;)

They won't. Verizon like all other carriers also charges too much, but at least their much better network coverage makes it ALMOST worth it.

Wow, imagine the impact if the above suggestion became valid.

iPhone stays on AT&T, but gets unlocked to T-Mobile also. Finally, it gets added to Verizon.

Meh, ewww, and yay. :D

Sprint dies. :o

They will. :D

I'm Canadian so I could care less, but cool!

Ahem...you do know that Verizon offers a U.S. Nationwide + Canada plan, right? People who travel back and forth between both countries would definitely be interested in this. :cool:

[terryzx]

I know that neither myself or numerous friends who love Apple will EVER go to AT&T for ANYTHING

Besides the miserable customer service and bad connections and dropped calls, AT&T cares nothing about ripping people off or protecting their private information.

They were the 1st one to cave to the government to give up any info without a warrant.

Not to mention all the crap they pulled before there was any competition which forced them to change their ways

I just can’t see supporting their greed any further, so I will just wait til the iPhone gets FREED FROM BONDAGE before I get one

[puckhead193]

this would be awesome. I hope this is true that at least they are thinking about it. Plus it would help my stock :p

[Surklyn]

Oh that's good. That way the iPhone can sport a hindered version.


Ain't that the truth. If Apple goes with Verizon... that's what we'll see.. unless they can convince Verizon to forgo the proprietary operating system. I like Verizon.. I've had them for 4 years.. but I love Apple and their tech better. Frankly, in my location.. AT&T SUCKED... <SUCKED being the operative word> in the past few months, I now have signal in my house <never before>, I have signal in the white mountains.. <I didn't even have this with verizon>, and I have 3g now in NH. I am noticing a serious initiative with AT&T to improve their network, and I'm not willing to give that up for a crippled phone.

[Surklyn]

Even Verizon now has stated that the iPhone is unlikely to appear on their network until the LTE roll-out and that even they don't think Apple saw any merit in a CDMA iPhone. Now can the naysayers stop whining until LTE is rolled out?

Ill stop whining when Verizon complies and states they won't modify the phone. I like the service Verizon has, but not at the price of screwing with my phone.

[Surklyn]

I know that neither myself or numerous friends who love Apple will EVER go to AT&T for ANYTHING

Besides the miserable customer service and bad connections and dropped calls, AT&T cares nothing about ripping people off or protecting their private information.

They were the 1st one to cave to the government to give up any info without a warrant.

Not to mention all the crap they pulled before there was any competition which forced them to change their ways

I just can’t see supporting their greed any further, so I will just wait til the iPhone gets FREED FROM BONDAGE before I get one

I guess you won't be getting one anytime soon then. Then again, I'm still on the 1st Gen payment plan.. so I'm not feeling the pinch from the "subsidized" 3G payment plan... I'm only hoping the next G iPhone's payment plan is comparable to the 1st gen .. . <that's a big wish I know>..., but if the rumors are true.. and the new iPhone is coming out in June.. it is NOT coming out for any other carrier but AT&T. Verizon will have to wait till either 2011, or 2012 (depending on if Apple renews their contract with AT&T).

[Thunder82]

What doesn't make sense and makes you wonder if the CEO thought his statements through is that unless Verizon is secretly deploying an HSPDA network without public knowledge, this "LTE iPhone" would still have to support the legacy EVDO and 1x networks, which is practically the same as creating a CDMA iPhone. His statement just doesn't make much sense.

I was thinking the same thing! I just don't see this likely, unless Apple plans on supporting their legacy network. (CDMA) Considering LTE falls under the GSM standard, a CDMA & LTE phone wouldn't make sense as it would only be useful to verizons network, nowhere else.

[str1f3]

Everyone seems to be forgetting the most important issue, Iphone subsidies.

Right now I can walk into an Apple store and for $200 get an 8 GB Iphone that puts my $230 Ipod Touch to shame.

Prior to subsidies the lowered price of an 8 GB Iphone was $400.

I read that AT&T has a non contracted Iphone option or soon will, with the price at $600!

I hope that other carriers subsidize just as well as AT&T because, no matter how cool the Iphone is, $600 upfront cost is freaking painful and will kill Iphone sales.

Of course, there shouldn't be a problem for Verizon to subsidize Iphones as AT&T does and just lock you into a contract.

Hell, let me have a $200/$300 Iphone with unlimited data and minimal talk for $60/month and I will sign a 3 year contract with a smile on my face!

Thought?

Anybody who will sell the iPhone will have a subsidized version. The best part about this is that there will be price competition instead of at&t robbing us. Another part is that these kinds of things happening with the slingbox app won't happen because it will be easier for anyone to jump ship since everyone is going LTE.

The sooner the better for verizon getting the iPhone. I'm tired of AT&T and their lousy coverage. Verizon made sure they absolutely blanketed NYC with coverage. At&t is garbage but maybe they will have learned their lesson by then instead of just taking the money and run.

[Diseal3]

If this happens no more iphone for me =). It's simply not worth the jump on the band wagon this time. Some of you fail to see that 4G = more $$ a month. Not even that, VZ has crap phones and like a lot of you WERE saying is they will put vcast all over the dam place and limit the phones capability's even more so. Apple came to VZ first they said "NO" EOS, screw them they should not get a 2nd chance as making the iphone for vz will not benefit apple in the slightest seeing the world's standard is GSM.

[yoyomaster]

This makes me happy :)

[Surklyn]

If this happens no more iphone for me =). It's simply not worth the jump on the band wagon this time. Some of you fail to see that 4G = more $$ a month.

Good point. I am failing to see the competition value here with the iPhone. The major carriers (Sprint, T-mobile, Verizon, and AT&T) all have competitive rates with all their phones. What is to say they aren't with the iPhone? Those who say the price will be cheaper are living in a fantasy world. The iPhone is a device that frankly doesn't function without a data plan, and data plans aren't cheap. Regardless... each carrier has benefits and hindrances.. Verizon isn't the be all end all to carriers, but neither is AT&T.

[beez1717]

did you know that apple went to verizon first and they turned down the iphone? That's the story plain and simple. So if apple comes back to verizon I hope that they aren't as stupid as they were before...

[andreab35]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/7A280f Safari/525.20)

If true- this is simply a blessing.
I won't mind paying AT&T's termination fee one bit!

[Diseal3]

Good point. I am failing to see the competition value here with the iPhone. The major carriers (Sprint, T-mobile, Verizon, and AT&T) all have competitive rates with all their phones. What is to say they aren't with the iPhone? Those who say the price will be cheaper are living in a fantasy world. The iPhone is a device that frankly doesn't function without a data plan, and data plans aren't cheap. Regardless... each carrier has benefits and hindrances.. Verizon isn't the be all end all to carriers, but neither is AT&T.

Pretty much my point in an easier post to understand. All cell phone carriers have problem's in certain areas. However, GSM is the world standard and I have no problems with it. Verizion rapes there phones with vcast crap, charge you for the smallest things and have no benefit to me in the slightest. 4G will be new technology and be very costly to people the beginning years as verzion will need to hit breaking point, the iphone WONT be cheaper on verizon nor better. I hope and PRAY att gets there contract extenstion if not, a least let the phone go unlocked.

[twoodcc]

i bet this is why at&t is trying to get an extension now

[shaunymac]

Hell, let me have a $200/$300 Iphone with unlimited data and minimal talk for $60/month and I will sign a 3 year contract with a smile on my face!Thought?

You say that now but then a year after that you'll be saying they're screwing you over by not letting you upgrade to the new phone like a ton of the 3g owners on these forums that signed a two year contract but still want subsidized pricing on this years model.

Adamgalas, I have that now. I have an iphone that I paid for outright and I also have the cheapest plan which is around $65 a month. Every 3-6 months it seems like they go up in price just a bit, but maybe that is just me.

Jholzner, the people that are saying they are screwed are fools! You signed a contract for 2 YEARS. If you want to upgrade within those 2 years you are going to pay for it. We all know that Apple is going to release a new phone every year so can you not at least commit to your phone for a year or two. If you happen to be unsatisfied, jailbreak it and through it on ebay. It is the same thing when you buy a new mac. Apple is wonderful about refreshing products. To those who have to have the latest and greatest it sure can be costly. :rolleyes: Just enjoy what you have.

Like others have said, if verizon gets a piece of the cake somehow, which I believe is unlikely as of now, I will be reunited with nearly all of my family. Yes!

Oh, and this whole thing about att having more bars in more places crap, yeah I have been testing that one out for nearly 2 years now. What have I come up with? FALSE! Granted the iphone is not known for its reception but everywhere I have been the verizon network has excelled. :mad:

[Diseal3]

i bet this is why at&t is trying to get an extension now

This is a case where apple will look at numbers. ATT has more subscribers and they will only have to make one iphone rather then 2 which benefits them AND att. Awesome. Verizons logo will be all over the iphone and apple will NOT go for that.

[MrSEC]

If the iPhone ever goes Verizon it's game over for the rest.

I agree.Right now I'm using a Storm because AT&T has spotty service,and hardly any 3G areas other than the Nashville Metro area.Even in a town near Nashville that has over 100,000 and a college....still no 3G.

[Pooshka]

I hope it will never happen. Verizonites = Nazis.

[SirOmega]

I've been saying this the entire time - Apple with announce a 4G iPhone sometime in 2010 or early 2011, for both AT&T and Verizon (possibly even T-Mobile).

Then Apple starts to kick the ever loving crap out of WinMo and BB.

[megfilmworks]

I think in a year or two you will see the iPhone available on all the carriers,
That would make for competitive plans and
a huge uptick in sales on iPhones and apps, etc.

[yadmonkey]

I don't think for a second that the iPhone on Verizon means a Verizon-branded iPhone with Vcast. I just don't see Apple bending on that, whereas I could easily see Verizon bending on it considering that they lost millions of subscribers to AT&T over the iPhone, myself included.

As for the GSM/CDMA thing, if Verizon has their 4G network pretty well nailed, then they could theoretically sell a 4G/GSM iPhone and foot the bill for GSM roaming, justifying the expense as transitional cost in order to regain subscribers.

[Diseal3]

I think in a year or two you will see the iPhone available on all the carriers,
That would make for competitive plans and
a huge uptick in sales on iPhones and apps, etc.

If it not an AT&T exclusive, I want to see it go this route.

[vansouza]

steve will invite him for dinner when it is time to talk

And Steve will remind them of everything they said about his ideas for a new phone... I don't think they will be able to afford the price of "cool".

[dongmin]

perfect if this true im currently on verizon but have been thinking jumping over to att just for the iphone but if it comes out its right when my current phone is expired anywhoo id be happy to stay on verizon if a iphone came :)

This may just have been a calculated public statement by the Verizon people to get people like you to stick with Verizon.

Apple will not agree to a deal with Verizon unless Apple has exclusive control over the look and feel of the iPhone, hardware AND software. It's simply not Apple's style to let others muck up their beautiful machines with stickers, crap software, etc.

[sg.hill]

The sooner the better for verizon getting the iPhone. I'm tired of AT&T and their lousy coverage. Verizon made sure they absolutely blanketed NYC with coverage. At&t is garbage but maybe they will have learned their lesson by then instead of just taking the money and run.

I know that my phone has no trouble connecting to other carrier's towers without roaming charges (like Rogers Wireless in the parts of Michigan bordering Canada). If we're all going to the same standard, doesn't Verizon lose the advantage of having a better network? It seems like we'll all be using the same towers everywhere. Then, perhaps, the only real choice is whether you'd want rollover minutes or to join IN.

Telecom isn't my expertise, so someone feel free to step in and correct this logic.

[yoyomaster]

This is a case where apple will look at numbers. ATT has more subscribers and they will only have to make one iphone rather then 2 which benefits them AND att. Awesome. Verizons logo will be all over the iphone and apple will NOT go for that.

Remember though, Verizon just "merged" with Alltel and will basically be getting a good amount the customers from Alltel that just flop over to Verizon once the switch is complete, except in some areas that Verizon can't have because of anti-trust laws. This will mean more subscribers and more opportunities to increase sales.

[hippo206]

i would pay any cancellation fees and be the first one in line to get my verizon iphone should that day ever come.

[Rachel Faith]

Does Verizon's CEO thing we are fools? Does he forget that we all know that Apple went to Verizon FIRST and they told Steve to take a long hike off a short dock?

[Diseal3]

Remember though, Verizon just "merged" with Alltel and will basically be getting a good amount the customers from Alltel that just flop over to Verizon once the switch is complete, except in some areas that Verizon can't have because of anti-trust laws. This will mean more subscribers and more opportunities to increase sales.

GSM vs. CDMA... verizon has be silenced.

[bearbear]

This is a case where apple will look at numbers. ATT has more subscribers and they will only have to make one iphone rather then 2 which benefits them AND att. Awesome. Verizons logo will be all over the iphone and apple will NOT go for that.

Huh? With newly acquired Alltel, VZW has the most subscribers by a significant amount.

And obviously if the iPhone came to VZW, it wouldn't have its logos all over the phone (let's use our brains here).

[Lesser Evets]

The moment the get Verizon and iPhone together, I buy.

Move it, Apple.

[yoyomaster]

GSM vs. CDMA... verizon has be silenced.

I believe that's not of as big of a problem as you present it to be, look at blackberrys.

[iCantwait]

many countries dot use CDMA eg Australia, why kill the australian market?
why bother with two different handsets?

[MacDaddy901]

I like how the CEO of Verizon says that Apple will be more willing to work with Verizon in 2010. Sorry bud you need to get it straight. You need to work with Apple, which means pretty much let them do whatever they want and all you do is provide the service.

[Drag'nGT]

I'll do my best to NEVER have a VZW account. But that's me.

[Sehnsucht]

i hope this is true. Verizon always finds a way to disable hardware in phones so people are forced to pay for their services (gps, ringtones, bluetooth). I have a verizon wireless phone that is capable of gps and transferring data through bluetooth but verizon limits what I can do. Steve wouldn't let that fly!

Also it would be interesting to see how the app store would work, verizon would want a cut i'm sure.

His Steveness would never allow the Verizon badge/crapware to spoil the iPhone. As for wanting a cut of the iTunes store or the App store, Steve will tell them to cram it up their ass. The Verizon iPhone will be 100% pure Apple, the only difference being "Verizon" on the status bar rather than "AT&T". :cool:

[yoyomaster]

many countries dot use CDMA eg Australia, why kill the australian market?
why bother with two different handsets?

How will this kill the Australian market? What's wrong with making 2 phones, a lot of companies do, and Verizon will be the largest provider having a lot of new subscribers equating to a major surge in sales.

[MacFly123]

steve will invite him for dinner when it is time to talk

Ya. I think we will see another nice surge in June with the 3rd iPhone, but I think June 2010 will be the iChat front camera iPhone on 4G networks pretty much world wide and all major networks in the U.S.A. and it will be like the iPod Mini and Nano when BOOOOOOM EVERYBODY GETS ONE!!! I can't wait! :D

If I were the other smart phone makers I would be FREAKING SCARED for June 2010! :eek: :apple:

[Tenorsaw]

did you know that apple went to verizon first and they turned down the iphone? That's the story plain and simple. So if apple comes back to verizon I hope that they aren't as stupid as they were before...

You guys don't read:

"He said Apple never seriously considered making a CDMA version of the iPhone because it didn't have as wide a distribution opportunity."

This totally contradicts what he said before about Apple approaching Verizon first, which I knew didn't make any sense.

[maokh]

Exclusivity agreement expires in 2010? oh come guys, you're killing me!!

[IronCross]

Verizon's 4G network will be NO BETTER than AT&T's 4G network...

In fact they'll both be equal. Stronger and weaker in different areas with different spectrum ownership and different tower densities. Of course LTE technology running on 700/850/1900 will be the exact same on Verizon that it will be on AT&T. The reason that Verizon's network is so solid right now is because it's the MOST MATURE network of all the U.S. cell providers. Verizon has been using CDMA almost since the beginning of the millenium. AT&T started deploying 3G in like 2005/2006, EDGE/GSM around 03-04. Therefore they've had the most time to solidify and expand network holes and weak spots.

Also, CDMA technology by nature holds calls stronger than GSM does. Your call will degrade itself to the point where you can't hear the person on the other end (and you have to call them back to get a new connection), but damnit you'll still be connected. WCDMA (3G) does the same thing, but since it's a newer technology AT&T is still tuning it to perfection. In areas with 3G on the 850MHz band, service is absolutely stunning and far superior to Verizon.

[iMacoo7]

You say that now but then a year after that you'll be saying they're screwing you over by not letting you upgrade to the new phone like a ton of the 3g owners on these forums that signed a two year contract but still want subsidized pricing on this years model.

Seriously tired of seeing this..
Everyone is different in regards of when they purchased their iPhone,meaning that if you purchased it on the release date (Referring to the 3g iphone) You should be eligible for upgrade and a subsidy for the new iPhone(The only requirement that ATT is given in regards to the iPhone to get the subsidized price is for you to resign a 2 year agreement)
Call ATT , Go by the store, log onto your account and you will see when you are eligible and also you will be able to find out about subsidized pricing.
Do you honestly think that Apple/ATT will not let the owners of this device go and upgrade to the new version?
And when I say upgrade I mean upgrade with the subsidy.
The only thing I agree with in this post is that a ton of people will not be able to upgrade to the new version and get a subsidy because of the time frame they purchased their 3G iPhones.
I have 2 friends that purchased their iPhone's in August and the other one in October...
The friend that purchased his in August will be able to upgrade or be eligible june-july , the other friends not eligible until later.
One will be happily camping out with me and my wife while the other friend will have to marvel and drool over our iPhones unless he wants to pay the non upgradable fee's and taxes.....

[APPLEFAN8]

I hope so due to the fact that the day I turned 18 last October I was considering getting the iphone and leaving verizon but now that this news is here I have my fingers crossed and hope I can get it in 2010 since I have a LG dare now but get rid of that and get the iphone! lol

[Vaphoron]

For me this it is quite simple. If they release the iPhone for Verizon, I will buy it the day it comes out and if they never do, I'll never get one. Plenty of people I know will get one if they release it for Verizon so if Apple wants more sales its a simple decision.

[iansilv]

I live in Southern California, so my coverage is basically great everywhere. But I do respect Verizon's coverage- personally, I don't give a crap abotu loyalty to ATT- give mea better netwrok for a better price, and I am there.

BUT- VERIZON- don't you dare pull that crap with Vcast or charging piecemeal for the plans. You had better keep an unlimited data for everything like ATT does.

[iansilv]

His Steveness would never allow the Verizon badge/crapware to spoil the iPhone. As for wanting a cut of the iTunes store or the App store, Steve will tell them to cram it up their ass. The Verizon iPhone will be 100% pure Apple, the only difference being "Verizon" on the status bar rather than "AT&T". :cool:

AMEN!

[barcafan1990]

Can I ask why Sprint isnt in this race?

Im not so savvy on the network type issue, the GSM and CRDM, or whatever theyre called, but Sprint has the best multimedia features(SprintTV, to say the least), that would be a great addition to the iPhone.

Is it the type of network that Sprint has that doesnt allow the iPhone to be for Sprint.

[adamgalas]

I think it is innevitable that the 5th gen Iphone, released in summer 2011 will be available on all networks.

The reason is simple. Apple released the 1st gen Iphone, unsubsidized at a ludicrous price of $600 and it still sold millions.

They lowered the price to $400 and sold even more.

Then AT&T started subsidizing them and you could buy one for $200/$300 and sales exploded.

Now Apple gets paid the full $600 by AT&T and much more peopel can afford the upfront cost, especially with the Iphone now a PMP/Video Game console, GPS, Phone, Net Surfer, ect.

In other words, Apple and AT&T are both making out like bandits.

Yet despite millions flocking to AT&T, millions more can't or won't make the switch but still dream of the glories of an Iphone.

If the Iphone were available on all networks and subsidized for $200, then it would become the #1 smart phone in the world, possibly the #1 phone, period.

Not only would this mean ungodly money for Apple, but it would greatly expand the additional revenue stream from Itunes and the Apps Store, making them even more money.

In summary, logic demands nothing less than the Iphone being available on every carrier by 2011 and logic will not be denied. Thus it will be so.

[iMaggot]

This is why i'm not going to buy the new iPhone this year, i'm just going to wait for next year model to see if it comes out on Verizon ;)

[redkamel]

Im sure apple would be "more likely" to consider Verizon if they are 4G. But that doesnt address that verizon still doesnt have as wide a distrubution as a GSM phone and no one else really uses GSM. Theres also no word from Apple about this, or a reason why they would make a GSM phone just for verizon. Also, I understand Verizon initially rejected the iphone (like idiots, since all they have no "cool" phones and are always behind the curve) because they wanted their own software, ringtones and limits....I'd be surprised if they changed their money grubbing ways.

Of course, if they did, I would go back to them in a heartbeat since they have the best network and best coverage.

[BTW]

One iPhone model for AT&T and one model for Verizon. Sounds good to me. I'd pick Verizon over AT&T any day. :D

[cwwilson]

Well as long as the iPhone is still on AT&T, then let there be a Verizon version as well. From what I can tell, Verizon seems to have some very loyal customers...So loyal that they want an iPhone but won't buy one until it comes to the Red V itself.

I've had a good experience with AT&T but if they let the iPhone go, I will follow.

[VTECaddict]

Verizon's 4G network will be NO BETTER than AT&T's 4G network...

In fact they'll both be equal. Stronger and weaker in different areas with different spectrum ownership and different tower densities. Of course LTE technology running on 700/850/1900 will be the exact same on Verizon that it will be on AT&T. The reason that Verizon's network is so solid right now is because it's the MOST MATURE network of all the U.S. cell providers. Verizon has been using CDMA almost since the beginning of the millenium. AT&T started deploying 3G in like 2005/2006, EDGE/GSM around 03-04. Therefore they've had the most time to solidify and expand network holes and weak spots.

Also, CDMA technology by nature holds calls stronger than GSM does. Your call will degrade itself to the point where you can't hear the person on the other end (and you have to call them back to get a new connection), but damnit you'll still be connected. WCDMA (3G) does the same thing, but since it's a newer technology AT&T is still tuning it to perfection. In areas with 3G on the 850MHz band, service is absolutely stunning and far superior to Verizon.
yep.

a 4G/LTE iPhone on VZW will be VASTLY inferior in terms of coverage, because verizon doesnt have WCDMA/GSM for the phone to fall back on. it will be ONLY 4G, which will be very limited because VZW has to build a brand new 4G network instead of building upon their current CDMA network. those of you that think AT&T's 3G is spotty, imagine that but worse, and instead of falling back on EDGE, you fall back on no service.

unless apple makes it dual mode LTE/CDMA...

[macfan881]

I think it is innevitable that the 5th gen Iphone, released in summer 2011 will be available on all networks.

The reason is simple. Apple released the 1st gen Iphone, unsubsidized at a ludicrous price of $600 and it still sold millions.

They lowered the price to $400 and sold even more.

Then AT&T started subsidizing them and you could buy one for $200/$300 and sales exploded.

Now Apple gets paid the full $600 by AT&T and much more peopel can afford the upfront cost, especially with the Iphone now a PMP/Video Game console, GPS, Phone, Net Surfer, ect.

In other words, Apple and AT&T are both making out like bandits.

Yet despite millions flocking to AT&T, millions more can't or won't make the switch but still dream of the glories of an Iphone.

If the Iphone were available on all networks and subsidized for $200, then it would become the #1 smart phone in the world, possibly the #1 phone, period.

Not only would this mean ungodly money for Apple, but it would greatly expand the additional revenue stream from Itunes and the Apps Store, making them even more money.

In summary, logic demands nothing less than the Iphone being available on every carrier by 2011 and logic will not be denied. Thus it will be so.
I agree ive been saying that since these rumors started if apple wants to be the number one smart phone in the world it needs to be on other networks

[winterspan]

AT&T exclusivity is definitely holding back iPhone sales, and I don't see a compelling reason to continue it. I would imagine seeing millions more sales if they introduced it onto Verizon and/or Sprint, not to mention all of the here-to-fore-left-out cellphone operators around the world.


1) It doesn't make sense to NOT create a CDMA model of the iPhone 3G, and to not otherwise open the iPhone to all American (and international) carriers.

Based on the 3GPP2/CDMA development trade group (http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma_world_subscriber.asp), there are over 450 MILLION CDMA (CDMA2000 1xRTT/EV-DO) customers worldwide in over 50 countries (with 100+ million in NA), and over 112 MILLION customers using EV-DO 3G. Why in hell wouldn't Apple spend the relatively small resources required to create a CDMA compatible iPhone.

Even just considering the USA, Verizon's LTE network is going to take years to reach the coverage area of their existing CDMA network, and Sprint is going in another direction. Combined, you are talking about nearly 100 MILLION CDMA subscribers and there are obviously millions of customers on these two networks just chomping at the bit for an iPhone 3G and who will NOT switch to AT&T for a variety of reasons.

2) If for whatever reason Apple didn't want to spend the resources developing two distinct models of iPhone (even if it makes sense economically), there is a relatively simple solution. There are dual-mode baseband chips that can work with both GSM/EDGE/UMTS *AND* CDMA/1xRTT/EV-DO networks already in use by other manufactures.. including certain Blackberry models.. There is no reason why Apple couldn't make the next generation iPhone use one of these universal chips.

[Minimoose 360]

I hope Verizon DIES.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Can I ask why Sprint isnt in this race?

Im not so savvy on the network type issue, the GSM and CRDM, or whatever theyre called, but Sprint has the best multimedia features(SprintTV, to say the least), that would be a great addition to the iPhone.

Is it the type of network that Sprint has that doesnt allow the iPhone to be for Sprint.

Sprint is using WiMax for 4G instead of LTE. Sprint's probably going to die anyway, and the iPhone doesn't even use AT&T's multimedia features anyway.

[edesignuk]

This has always puzzled me....why a countries carriers would choose to run entirely different non-compatible networks :confused: Seems like idiocy.

Who was there first? Who decided to go in the opposite direction (GSM v CDMA tech wise) after another (the first) had already began rolling out their chosen network?

[WizardHunt]

I actually think they will offer the iphone to T-Mobile as well. They would not have to alter anything, just make the iPhone unlocked (GSM Version) which might potentially open up the flood gates but the way the iPhone is supposedly going to reach the china market (Where supposedly allot of unlocked iphones were floating around) and the iphone has already filtered in other countries, I actually think it will reduce allot of the need to unlock.

Making a move to Verizon,T-Mobile would be a nice move.
I have family that stay in places where Verizon is the only service that works, some were T-Mobile only works.

So maybe they have been waiting until Verizon gets their situation taken care of before making an initial leap or maybe we are all wrong and Apple sticks with ATT for another couple of years (If Apple is coming out with a netbook, maybe the opposed netbook will not be with ATT and that is why they are asking for an extension).... Questions and answers to what it could or could not be....Guess we all will have to wait for the final verdict

Verizon just bought out T-Mobile. So it is all Verizon now. No more T-Mobile.

[andy721]

It's all a stupid waiting game with money sharks with scams and sheep.

There's already a 4G out just gotta wait. So stupid.:mad:
I hate this screwed up society /

[sdsvtdriver]

Verizon just bought out T-Mobile. So it is all Verizon now. No more T-Mobile.

ROFL, oh really? Someone should let Deutsche Telekom know.

[Nermal]

This has always puzzled me....why a countries carriers would choose to run entirely different non-compatible networks :confused: Seems like idiocy.

Who was there first? Who decided to go in the opposite direction (GSM v CDMA tech wise) after another (the first) had already began rolling out their chosen network?

I have no idea about in the US but I can explain why NZ went different ways.

The first services here, provided by Motorola, were based on AMPS. When BellSouth entered the country a few years later, GSM was a new technology and was a huge improvement over AMPS so they picked that.

When it became time to replace the AMPS network a few years later, they moved to CDMA because it was a better technology than GSM. Now with EVDO sitting on top of CDMA, we have what I believe is one of the fastest and most reliable mobile networks in the world.

Edit: So to clarify, Vodafone (previously BellSouth) uses GSM, and Telecom (previously Motorola) uses CDMA. There are other providers too, but those are the two big ones.

[iphones4evry1]

Verizon is going to have to sell Apple on more than just "4G" because AT&T has a faster network coming also ... and it's only a software upgrade. The current 3G network that AT&T operates is CAPABLE of double the current data speed. AT&T has not implemented it yet because they have been refining it and it is their "future" product. If Verizon gets more serious, AT&T will then likely lift the sheet off of their faster network.

source: Gizmodo

[yadmonkey]

Verizon is going to have to sell Apple on more than just "4G" because AT&T has a faster network coming also ... and it's only a software upgrade. The current 3G network that AT&T operates is CAPABLE of double the current data speed. AT&T has not implemented it yet because they have been refining it and it is their "future" product. If Verizon gets more serious, AT&T will then likely lift the sheet off of their faster network.

source: Gizmodo

I don't know if AT&T will be speeding up their 3G network or not, but it won't compare to 4G, which is why AT&T is working on a 4G network too.

[willdenow]

Actually, Verizon has begun rolling out their 4G network this year, and hopes to complete the rollout by the end of next. Baltimore already has 4G and they'll be rolling it out in NYC, LA, Atlanta, San Antonio and Las Vegas this year. Here in Vegas, they're already selling subscriptions with completion of the roll out by the end of the summer. I pay Cox Cable (gag me with a spoon) almost $100 month for 20 Mbit download and 8 Mbit upload. Verizon claims their 4G will improve on this for $70 a month (no DSL in North Las Vegas since we're all poor black and brown people here). This includes a modem for the home and a dongle for the laptop which means I won't have to worry about finding and paying for WiFi. Also, there will be none of this rationing crap that some of the Cable Companies are trying to pull. All in all, a win-win. And I hope to God that it cripples to the greedy Cable Companies to the point of bankruptcy (at least Time Warner and Cox!).

[bergmef]

Don't forget, verizon cannot use the 700MHz band until the government makes everyone switch over tv-wise. The earliest verizon can use that is now June ... pending any further delays by the government.

EDIT - I forgot to add, I think it's a preemptive strike/notice to slow the people from switching. I have verizon, but here, south of Baltimore, they just added one new at&t tower and another is scheduled next month. Verizon has better coverage here ... for now.

[DELLsFan]

The differing technologies of CDMA/GSM in the U.S. have been a big hindrance to both innovation and the widespread proliferation of wireless technology. Getting one standard going will be great for our wireless industry overall.

However, part of me suspects that without the artificial differentiator of tech inside the phone, phone-specific exclusives and long-term contracts will become even more important for carriers looking to lock in their base.

It will be very interesting to see how this develops. Without some sort of reasonable regulation in play here, I don't have a lot of faith in the carriers doing the right thing. Allowing people to network hop based purely on things like quality of service provided would just be too honest and logical for these companies.

Well said! :)

I don't have any faith that the carriers will do the right thing FOR CONSUMERS in the near future, for 4G, 5G, or even 15G. The exclusivity deals, proprietary technologies and software used differentiate the carriers from each other. However the overall apathy on the customer experience, service, and price gouging (on SMS and termination fees, for example) are all disgraceful examples of what they have in common.

If there is to be any true competition amongst the U.S. carriers, it seems to me the first step toward this end is the adoption of one technology standard in the U.S. That standard is GSM, in my humble opinion. Don't adopt it because you want iPhone business, Verizon. Adopt it because it vastly improves your outdated technology and opens your network to far more customers than otherwise. It also gives you more flexibility in international markets and for world travelers.

Short of adopting only one standard, I wouldn't mind if the only two carriers in play were Verizon and AT&T. Verizon acquires Sprint and other CDMA wannabes. AT&T acquires T-Mobile and any other GSM vagrant offshoots (are there any?). Since all the carriers share the same bed (in monopolistic, price gouging ideology), I think elimination of the smaller fish will force the big fish to really start competing with each other for our business and THAT'S what's best for consumers - iPhone or no iPhone.

:apple:

[Nermal]

If there is to be any true competition amongst the U.S. carriers, it seems to me the first step toward this end is the adoption of one technology standard in the U.S. That standard is GSM, in my humble opinion.

Conversely, in my opinion I think it'd be idiotic to adopt GSM this late in the game. My current CDMA provider in NZ thought about it, and even publicly announced a nationwide GSM rollout, only to later think about it properly and realise that it is an outdated technology and is certainly not the way forward (the provider has since "un-announced" the network and has dismantled the GSM sites that were installed between the two decisions).

We now have a brand-new nationwide WCDMA network that will be launched in June. There are many benefits of WCDMA over GSM, so in my opinion if the US was to standardise on a single technology now, that technology should be WCDMA.

[matticus008]

It doesn't make sense to NOT create a CDMA model of the iPhone 3G, and to not otherwise open the iPhone to all American (and international) carriers.
That simply isn't true. In fact, there's no compelling reason to do it at all.

When LTE comes around and a sizable network exists, Verizon may well be a prime candidate for an iPhone. It won't be able to fall back on CDMA, but it wouldn't stop iPhone adoption, either, assuming Verizon got the timing right and/or arranged for roaming agreements for GSM fallback.
there are over 450 MILLION CDMA (CDMA2000 1xRTT/EV-DO) customers worldwide in over 50 countries (with 100+ million in NA), and over 112 MILLION customers using EV-DO 3G.
You realize that there are approximately four billion cellular phone users worldwide, and that except for those 450 million CDMA users, they're essentially all GSM-based networks, right? CDMA is a small and shrinking market, and Apple isn't anywhere near GSM saturation such that the opportunity cost of developing a CDMA version would be worth more than investing that same amount in improving availability of existing models.
Combined, you are talking about nearly 100 MILLION CDMA subscribers and there are obviously millions of customers on these two networks just chomping at the bit for an iPhone 3G
Actualization rates are much lower than you think in these situations.
If for whatever reason Apple didn't want to spend the resources developing two distinct models of iPhone (even if it makes sense economically), there is a relatively simple solution.
Spoken with true ignorance of what's involved in a "relatively simple fix". I don't know where people got the idea that electronics design and engineering is roughly as complex as assembling Ikea furniture, but it simply isn't true. Everything from performance characteristics and power consumption to packaging type, IC size and layout, heat dissipation, supply capacity, interference profiles and signal leakage, and a variety of more complex and esoteric issues is a factor in a "simple" component swap.

All of it is doable, but it is much more common for something not to be worthwhile practically, technologically, economically, and logistically than people commonly insist.
There is no reason why Apple couldn't make the next generation iPhone use one of these universal chips.
There are dozens of reasons why it doesn't make sense to bother.

When Apple runs out of room in the 3.4 billion GSM user category, they can worry about picking up a few million in the CDMA dead-end.

[kdarling]

did you know that apple went to verizon first and they turned down the iphone? That's the story plain and simple. So if apple comes back to verizon I hope that they aren't as stupid as they were before...

1) Apple didn't even have an iPhone design to show at the time.
2) Apple's other iPod-phone idea, the ROKR, sucked.
3) Apple didn't want to sell through Verizon's partners (a restriction that Apple later changed when their sales dropped off)
4) Apple didn't want to allow Verizon to sell ringtones, etc.

Also, Verizon would've required a 3G version like all their other smartphones, and instead Apple might've been talking about a crippled 2G radio like they gave ATT.

Verizon almost always requires A-GPS for their E911 system. Again, something the first iPhone model lacked.

Put all that together back in the summer of 2005, and the decision actually makes sense.

I was thinking the same thing! I just don't see this likely, unless Apple plans on supporting their legacy network. (CDMA) Considering LTE falls under the GSM standard, a CDMA & LTE phone wouldn't make sense as it would only be useful to verizons network, nowhere else.

LTE is a totally new 4G implementation chosen by many GSM and CDMA carriers. It has nothing in common with either. The GSM myth arose because that group picked LTE first. However, CDMA carriers are implementing it first.

You're correct: both GSM and CDMA carrier models would require the old radio to fall back on. An LTE-only phone is many years away.

[DELLsFan]

Conversely, in my opinion I think it'd be idiotic to adopt GSM this late in the game. My current CDMA provider in NZ thought about it, and even publicly announced a nationwide GSM rollout, only to later think about it properly and realise that it is an outdated technology and is certainly not the way forward (the provider has since "un-announced" the network and has dismantled the GSM sites that were installed between the two decisions).

We now have a brand-new nationwide WCDMA network that will be launched in June. There are many benefits of WCDMA over GSM, so in my opinion if the US was to standardise on a single technology now, that technology should be WCDMA.

Hello, New Zealand! I guess opinions vary on CDMA vs GSM. I'll have to look into this wCDMA technology ... As for the US adopting one standard - it's really more of a pipe dream I have than anything. I can personally vouch for stronger and more consistent signals on my iPhone on GSM than I had with my series of Verizon phones in the New England, USA area.

I guess I fancied GSM was here to stay ... Apparently CDMA (and the next generation of it) is too ...

/Cheers!

[kdarling]

i hope this is true. Verizon always finds a way to disable hardware in phones so people are forced to pay for their services (gps, ringtones, bluetooth). I have a verizon wireless phone that is capable of gps and transferring data through bluetooth but verizon limits what I can do. Steve wouldn't let that fly!

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Steve already restricted the iPhone in far worse ways:

Verizon has limited GPS to their VZNavigator. Apple? No turn-by-turn navigation available at all. VZNavigator would actually be a godsend.

Verizon does not limit ringtones or Bluetooth on their smartphones, so that argument is totally bogus. Apple? Sorry again... years of crippled Bluetooth by their own choice.

Verizon allows you to use any theme, application, and backgrounding. Apple? Nope.

Verizon allows Slinging. Apple and ATT? Let's hope so.

Also it would be interesting to see how the app store would work, verizon would want a cut i'm sure.

Insider rumors claim ATT gets a cut already, and other country's carriers do the same.

[iPhoneNYC]

The key for Apple users is options. America is a big place and different providers have strengths in different areas. Having said that, it also seemed like the Verizon guy was trying to cover his butt by giving his own version of why Verizon never seriously considered the iPhone. Kind of reminds me of Western Union turning down Bell's offer to buy his funny new telephonic device.

[fishkorp]

Actually, Verizon has begun rolling out their 4G network this year, and hopes to complete the rollout by the end of next. Baltimore already has 4G and they'll be rolling it out in NYC, LA, Atlanta, San Antonio and Las Vegas this year. Here in Vegas, they're already selling subscriptions with completion of the roll out by the end of the summer. I pay Cox Cable (gag me with a spoon) almost $100 month for 20 Mbit download and 8 Mbit upload. Verizon claims their 4G will improve on this for $70 a month (no DSL in North Las Vegas since we're all poor black and brown people here). This includes a modem for the home and a dongle for the laptop which means I won't have to worry about finding and paying for WiFi. Also, there will be none of this rationing crap that some of the Cable Companies are trying to pull. All in all, a win-win. And I hope to God that it cripples to the greedy Cable Companies to the point of bankruptcy (at least Time Warner and Cox!).

Baltimore's 4G is WiMax with Sprint, not Verizon with LTE.

As someone else stated, a majority of LTE that Verizon and AT&T are going to use makes use of the 700mhz spectrum. They can't use that right now because it's still being used by analog TV. Thanks to everyone bitching about switching TV they pushed back the mandatory digital switch. With the TV transition push back comes an LTE push back. You can't roll something out if you don't have the frequency to use it with available. I know what Verizon says, but I highly, highly doubt you'll see anything close to a nationwide LTE rollout in 2010. Hell, the way things are going there still might be analog TV using 700mhz in 2010 :p

[iPhoneNYC]

Do we think 4G will sound better? I have used my cell phone (and this counts many phones from many cell providers) for over half of my calls and it rarely sounds as good as a landline. This is a fact that I dismiss because of the convenience but it is still true.

[Ted13]

Sounds like the exact same BS that Adobe is spouting about Flash on the iPhone -- Verizon has nada, zip, zippo and is making hard to disprove statements to pacify its stockholders for having missed the iPhone gravy train.

I seriously doubt there is any kind of in the works Apple/Verizon negotiation much less agreement for a future Verizon iPhone.

[dernhelm]

4G in every nook and cranny of rural america (continental US)? I'll believe it when I see it.

[DHarrisDBS34]

If this is true then next time I need a new phone, I will be getting an iPhone, most definitely.

[kdarling]

Sounds like the exact same BS that Adobe is spouting about Flash on the iPhone -- Verizon has nada, zip, zippo and is making hard to disprove statements to pacify its stockholders for having missed the iPhone gravy train.

Seems quite possible.

[xhambonex]

So it seems the government ruined it for us again. Stupid TV switch delay. And since this 4G network doesn't seem to be in full use at any time in the next year or so.

I'm more interested to see if Apple will lock with At&t again for another year past 2010. I'd really like to see them say no so maybe the GSM networks here would offer much better rates over At&t. Ultimately I want it on verizon. The service has just been better for me.

[Ted13]

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Steve already restricted the iPhone in far worse ways:

Verizon has limited GPS to their VZNavigator. Apple? No turn-by-turn navigation available at all. VZNavigator would actually be a godsend.

Not true -- turn by turn navigation is in iPhone 3.0 (a free update, lest you think Apple held it back to milk the customers. Best guess, not ready for prime time tech, and Apple insisting on features working 100% or not all.
Bluetooth: total red herring: 1) it is being uncrippled in iPhone 3.0 and 2) it was completely unnecessary for ringtones or other file transfers since they were done on the iPhone via USB or WiFi. In the case of the phones where VZW cripples BT, they have no other way of installing ringtones (other than by paying $$$ to VZW).

1) Apple didn't even have an iPhone design to show at the time.
2) Apple's other iPod-phone idea, the ROKR, sucked.
3) Apple didn't want to sell through Verizon's partners (a restriction that Apple later changed when their sales dropped off)
4) Apple didn't want to allow Verizon to sell ringtones, etc.

Judging from Seidenberg's recent comments, Verizon never seriously believed Apple was going to build a CDMA version. After all, Verizon would've required a 3G version like all their other smartphones, and there was Apple talking about a crippled 2G radio like they gave ATT.

Put all that together back in the summer of 2005, and the decision actually makes sense.
Yes and by similar reasoning AT&T turning down the iPhone would have made just as much sense. Face it AT&T was smart, Verizon -- not so much. If AT&T manages to fix their network (a Major IF, I know), Verizon will be totally screwed.

[dernhelm]

I don't really care about an iPhone per-se, but an always available internet device (like the iPod Touch) with reasonably bandwidth would be really compelling. When WiMax (4G, whatever) becomes available, I think Apple might consider a device like that, but unlocked to work on ANY network.

So long as it's not sold as a "phone" but rather more like a device with a "wireless modem" built in, they shouldn't run up against some provider worried about Skype becoming more popular than their own service...

:rolleyes:

[nefan65]

Yeah! Screw AT&T! I get no service where I live, and they overcharge a lot. Here's hoping Verison keeps it under $80/month ;)

Are you serious? Compare a current BlackBerry unlimited data plan, and comparable voice plan with Verizon, and AT&T. Verizon's start at $100/month for 450 minutes, where as T-Mo and AT&T Start at $70/Month for the same minutes/data. For $110/month, I can double the minutes on voice with AT&T/T-Mo.

Shouldn't spout how much cheaper another service is, until you've actually done some checking.

[hashholly]

Sounds like the exact same BS that Adobe is spouting about Flash on the iPhone -- Verizon has nada, zip, zippo and is making hard to disprove statements to pacify its stockholders for having missed the iPhone gravy train.

I seriously doubt there is any kind of in the works Apple/Verizon negotiation much less agreement for a future Verizon iPhone.

Its nothing more than Verizons wack attempt to try to keep customers interested in the iphone from leaving for the next two years, and at the same time a backhanded way of apologizing to Apple (we want you now.)

Fact of the matter is there many reasons why this addition of Verizon wont happen, the simplest is Apple will want the user experience the same across all carriers, and i just dont see Verizon giving into Apples demands.

[cswiger1]

AT&T can kiss my $%&*!!!!!!!!!

is anyone else trying to figure out what this 5 letter word might be?

[hashholly]

I don't really care about an iPhone per-se, but an always available internet device (like the iPod Touch) with reasonably bandwidth would be really compelling. When WiMax (4G, whatever) becomes available, I think Apple might consider a device like that, but unlocked to work on ANY network.

So long as it's not sold as a "phone" but rather more like a device with a "wireless modem" built in, they shouldn't run up against some provider worried about Skype becoming more popular than their own service...

:rolleyes:

I don't see this happening unless Apple were to get a portion of data sales, ala the iPhone. Like it or not, Apple makes more $$ if their device is locked to a carrier w/data cut, than they do if it were purely unlocked, and at the end of the day its about the $$.

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

More carriers can only be a good thing for Apple and the consumer.

[nefan65]

Its nothing more than Verizons wack attempt to try to keep customers interested in the iphone from leaving for the next two years, and at the same time a backhanded way of apologizing to Apple (we want you now.)

Fact of the matter is there many reasons why this addition of Verizon wont happen, the simplest is Apple will want the user experience the same across all carriers, and i just dont see Verizon giving into Apples demands.

Agreed. They had their chance, and blew it. I've never been a fan of Verizon. I had to use one at a previous employer [it was that or Sprint]. It was horrible. Someone on this thread said how Apple crippled the iPhone; how ironic. That's all Verizon does to their phones!

No, I'm quite content using my AT&T iPhone 3G w/ 5 Bars. I'll let Verizon keep their crippled phones, and 1 Bar on occasion network...[at least where I live].

[stockscalper]

Verizon insists on crippling their phones and putting their menu scheme on them. I was a customer and left them for AT&T because of the ****** attitude their customer service has and their spotty coverage in my area. I have five bars of coverage where I live with AT&T and 1 bar with Verizon Worthless.

I don't care if they get the iPhone so long as AT&T also continues to carry it. But if Apple leaves AT&T then I'll switch to the Omnia or something else. To me having a reliable network is much more important than having a fancy phone that I can't make calls with.

[stooley]

2) it was completely unnecessary for ringtones or other file transfers since they were done on the iPhone via USB or WiFi. In the case of the phones where VZW cripples BT, they have no other way of installing ringtones (other than by paying $$$ to VZW).


I have never paid for a ringtone on vzw....you can mms them to your phone.

[Thunder82]

LTE is a totally new 4G implementation chosen by many GSM and CDMA carriers. It has nothing in common with either. The GSM myth arose because that group picked LTE first. However, CDMA carriers are implementing it first.

You're correct: both GSM and CDMA carrier models would require the old radio to fall back on. An LTE-only phone is many years away.

I was referring to the fact that LTE falls into the GSM line of evolution (GSM/Edge -> UMTS/HSDPA/UPA -> LTE) not so much the fact that the GSM carriers were the first to announce they would be implementing LTE as their 4G network.

Either way, as far as I know, Verizon is the first CDMA carrier worldwide to announce that they would be implementing LTE over Wimax, therefore making a CDMA & LTE iphone only useful to Verizon.

[michaelsviews]

YES, please oh please let this come about.

AT&T get your head out of your butt cause your going to loose the exclusiveness down the road.

3G map of AT&T vs 3G of Verizon hmmmmmm

[stockscalper]

[QUOTE=kdarling;7477813]Six of one, half dozen of the other. Steve already restricted the iPhone in far worse ways:

Verizon has limited GPS to their VZNavigator. Apple? No turn-by-turn navigation available at all. VZNavigator would actually be a godsend.

Actually, turn by turn will be available in the next OS release. What Verizon offers is not true turn by turn, but is pulled from MapQuest. It's really lacking.

Verizon does not limit ringtones or Bluetooth on their smartphones, so that argument is totally bogus. Apple? Sorry again... years of crippled Bluetooth by their own choice.

Not true. Verizon only allows ringtones if you buy from their over priced store. They crippled bluetooth to limit syncing with your computer so people could not install music, ringtones or wallpaper that were bought from third party sources. Apple does no such thing. I've installed music, ringtones and wallpaper from third party sources on my iPhone.

Verizon allows you to use any theme, application, and backgrounding. Apple? Nope.

Get your facts straight, you have this reversed. Verizon Worthless will not allow you to use any application or theme or background unless it is purchased from their store. With the iPhone I can put music from my cd's or downloaded from Amazon or other places on it. Same goes with backgrounds and wallpaper. By and large apps must come from the app store, but some can be installed via Mobileme. Have you looked in the app store and the thousands of apps available for the iPhone versus the paltry few that are available for Verizon phones?

Verizon allows Slinging. Apple and ATT? Let's hope so.

I could care less for this. Verizon offers ****** customer service, ****** phones and ****** service. I know because I had them and got tired of all the dropped calls and service that faded in and out, not to mention the poor voice quality of their networks. I was ever so happy to leave them for AT&T.

[iBeard]

So we'll get a crippled phone with bloated Verizon software all over it.

neat...

[atomoboy]

Now this is the same Verizon whose employees actively TRASH Apple and the iPhone whenever you walk into their stores with one in hand? It's also the same Verizon who was quick to introduce every half-baked iPhone look-a-like, right? Just wanted to get that cleared up... thanks.

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/16/verizon-iphone-more-likely-when-4g-networks-arrive-in-2010/)

The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123991010146926199.html) on comments made by Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg on a broad number of topics surrounding the company.

Of interest to readers, however, is the fact that Seidenberg addressed the possibility of Apple's iPhone coming to the Verizon network.CDMA is the technology behind Verizon's current cellular network and prevents the current Apple iPhone from running on their network. In order to accommodate Verizon, Apple would have to release a modified (CDMA) iPhone which Seidenberg seems to think was never likely.

Verizon plans to launch (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10209933-51.html) their 4G network in 2010, conveniently near the time AT&T's exclusivity expires (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/14/atandt-exclusivity-expires-in-2010-atandt-asking-for-extension/).

Article Link: Verizon iPhone More Likely When 4G Networks Arrive in 2010 (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/16/verizon-iphone-more-likely-when-4g-networks-arrive-in-2010/)

[kdarling]

I was referring to the fact that LTE falls into the GSM line of evolution (GSM/Edge -> UMTS/HSDPA/UPA -> LTE) not so much the fact that the GSM carriers were the first to announce they would be implementing LTE as their 4G network.

Again, LTE is NOT repeat NOT a GSM specific line of evolution, despite the misinformation you might have read in the past.

LTE is just a 4G choice for anyone, like WiMAX.

Either way, as far as I know, Verizon is the first CDMA carrier worldwide to announce that they would be implementing LTE over Wimax, therefore making a CDMA & LTE iphone only useful to Verizon.

The CDMA2000 organization has a (warning: 3MB) presentation on adding LTE here (http://www.cdg.org/technology/3g/resource/CDMA2000%20Path%20to%20LTE_CDG_ATIS%203GPP%20Conference_26JAN2009.pdf).

Of 3G CDMA operators around the world, Verizon Wireless, Vodafone, SK Telecom, Korea Telecom Freetel, Telecom New Zealand, KDDI, China Telecom, MetroPCS and Aircell have all announced intentions to deploy LTE.

LTE is not what people think, though. It's going to mostly be used for super high-speed broadband modems... and speed costs battery... so stationary devices or large-battery portables will use it first.

[SeanMcg]

Baltimore's 4G is WiMax with Sprint, not Verizon with LTE.

As someone else stated, a majority of LTE that Verizon and AT&T are going to use makes use of the 700mhz spectrum. They can't use that right now because it's still being used by analog TV. Thanks to everyone bitching about switching TV they pushed back the mandatory digital switch. With the TV transition push back comes an LTE push back. You can't roll something out if you don't have the frequency to use it with available. I know what Verizon says, but I highly, highly doubt you'll see anything close to a nationwide LTE rollout in 2010. Hell, the way things are going there still might be analog TV using 700mhz in 2010 :p

Sprint

I read somewhere (I'll find the link and edit this post) that Sprint was pushing hard for the delay because opening up that spectrum would immediately endanger WiMax. By pushing for the delay in the TV switch Sprint gains valuable time to finish setting up their new network and start selling phones.

My guess: the people Sprint was sending to the Hill to push for a delay were much louder and numerous than their opposition.

UPDATE: while looking for the aformentioned link, I realized that not only did Sprint back the delay, so did AT&T and Verizon (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/01/19/verizon-ceo-joins-atandt-in-backing-digital-tv-delay-as-long-as/), even if it came much later. Odd that they would do this, given the money they put into the auction.

Take the above for what it is worth.

[kdarling]

Actually, turn by turn will be available in the next OS release.

No. Those are heading and speed APIs for simple apps. TBT nav apps already know how to calculate those.

Not true. Verizon only allows ringtones if you buy from their over priced store. (etc)

This and all your other complaints simply point out that you've only ever owned dumbphones.

Smartphones don't have the same restrictions as dumbphones. They can download any app, theme, music, video, etc that the user wishes.

[fleshman03]

lol - I'm always behind the curve. Once I get an iphone with ATT for two years, they will go to Verizon the year after... oy! :rolleyes:

[Sweetfeld28]

I hope this happens. But i could just see Verizon holding out because of the profit share Apple wants. But, MaBell does have the bank to pay Apple more for exclusivity.

[Fathernature]

Apple first brought it's prototype iPhone to Verizon. It makes sense since they have or had the most subscibers at the time. What Verizon wanted out of the deal was the VZW interface and the Get it Now service on the phone. They wouldn't accept the phone with out it. Annnnnnnd Apple says "really you think that" ? Our OS is revolutionary no way would we succumb to ruining this product.

This Apple had offered the iPhone to verizon first but the idiots they are did not come to an agreement with Apple. Sorry Vzn fans my team is always aapl !

[NinjaHERO]

Competition is good for all of us. Screw this exclusive deal. I want options.

[ccrandall77]

Isn't Apple working with a Chinese mobile company to launch a TD-SCDMA version of the iPhone there? If so, what would be so hard about creating a CDMA phone for VZW and/or Sprint?

I know GSM is more widely used in the world, but here in the US there's around 130million customers with VZW and Sprint. I would think that'd amount to around 6-7million iPhone sales if it were available to customers of those 2 carriers.

If the next iPhone has voice dialing (and ideally if they ever fix the Apple Mail To-Do sync that's been sitting there broken since 1.1 or 1.2) and is available on Sprint, I know both my wife and I would snatch one right away. We both carry a cell phone and an iPod Touch around... it'd be nice to consolidate that into one device.

[jholzner]

I hope this happens. But i could just see Verizon holding out because of the profit share Apple wants. But, MaBell does have the bank to pay Apple more for exclusivity.

Since ATT subsidizes now there is no more profit sharing. Apple gets what they make off the phone and that's about it. No cut of the monthly fee...at least from 3G owners.

[michael.lauden]

So we'll get a crippled phone with bloated Verizon software all over it.

neat...


aaaactually - the iPhone runs apple's firmware (idk if you've heard anything about it?) and apps can only be installed from the App Store.

i'm certain that i don't have any AT&T apps on my iPhone right now, so why would verizon go out of the way to open every iPhone they receive and put their apps on it?

[W1LLk]

...and in case the road map is sketchy...

GSM (GPRS • EDGE (EGPRS) • EDGE Evolution • CSD • HSCSD) -->:)

CDMA (CDMAone • CDMA2000 • EV-DO • UMB)-->:)

:) --> UMTS/FOMA (3G) --> 3GPP Rel. 8 (Pre-4G) • E-UTRA --> LTE Advanced (4G)

[W1LLk]

...and in case the road map is sketchy...

GSM (GPRS • EDGE (EGPRS) • EDGE Evolution • CSD • HSCSD) -->:)

CDMA (CDMAone • CDMA2000 • EV-DO • UMB)-->:)

:) --> UMTS/FOMA (3G) --> 3GPP Rel. 8 (Pre-4G) • E-UTRA --> LTE Advanced (4G)

I expect you won't see Verizon on the iPhone list until they cross into "Blue" territory.

[Thunder82]

Again, LTE is NOT repeat NOT a GSM specific line of evolution, despite the misinformation you might have read in the past.

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

[Thunder82]

I expect you won't see Verizon on the iPhone list until they cross into "Blue" territory.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks.

[CaptObvious]

Again, LTE is NOT repeat NOT a GSM specific line of evolution, despite the misinformation you might have read in the past.

LTE is just a 4G choice for anyone, like WiMAX.


Partially true, any carrier can use LTE. But LTE is built on the GSM/WCDMA standard. UMB was the CDMA alternative but it never took off. Thus CDMA is a dead technology. Qualcomm itself is no longer in the CDMA market. So while VZW wont be switching to GSM anytime soon, investments in that infrastructure will be slim from here on out.

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

And yes, LTE is intended for mobile devices. Your statement about it being more for stationary devices is just silly.

[profets]

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

i do remember reading that LTE was somewhat designed to be backward compatible to cdma2000/evdo networks to encourage current cdma carriers to choose LTE for 4G.

also, bell & telus in canada which are major cdma carriers have announced as well that they will be going LTE for 4g.. as well as putting up umts/hspa network for next year (not sure why they wouldnt just go straight to LTE)

[diamond.g]

Partially true, any carrier can use LTE. But LTE is built on the GSM/WCDMA standard. UMB was the CDMA alternative but it never took off. Thus CDMA is a dead technology. Qualcomm itself is no longer in the CDMA market. So while VZW wont be switching to GSM anytime soon, investments in that infrastructure will be slim from here on out.

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

And yes, LTE is intended for mobile devices. Your statement about it being more for stationary devices is just silly.It is odd for CDMA to be dead if WCDMA isn't. I think you meant CDMA2000 not "CDMA".

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

Sigh, UTMS=WCDMA which in the end is a form of CDMA. CDMA2000 is dead though...

[Ted13]

Isn't Apple working with a Chinese mobile company to launch a TD-SCDMA version of the iPhone there? If so, what would be so hard about creating a CDMA phone for VZW and/or Sprint?

...
If the next iPhone has voice dialing (and ideally if they ever fix the Apple Mail To-Do sync that's been sitting there broken since 1.1 or 1.2) and is available on Sprint, I know both my wife and I would snatch one right away. We both carry a cell phone and an iPod Touch around... it'd be nice to consolidate that into one device.
See, you are the perfect example of why Apple *doesn't* do a CDMA phone. You insist on Sprint -- well that's never going to happen, because Sprint is a dead end, as the only US company not committed to 4G LTE tech. So even if they came out with a CDMA iPhone you still wouldn't switch to one because it wouldn't be on Sprint (or not have one of those must have features).

Secondly it surely isn't technically difficult to produce a CDMA phone, but it may be close to impossible to produce an iPhone that is both CDMA and GSM/3G phone (which it would need to be), plus WiFi etc. and not be any thicker and still have decent battery life. RIM didn't manage it: there is no WiFi on the Storm and it is thicker than the iPhone anyway.

[yoyomaster]

Are you serious? Compare a current BlackBerry unlimited data plan, and comparable voice plan with Verizon, and AT&T. Verizon's start at $100/month for 450 minutes, where as T-Mo and AT&T Start at $70/Month for the same minutes/data. For $110/month, I can double the minutes on voice with AT&T/T-Mo.

Shouldn't spout how much cheaper another service is, until you've actually done some checking.

Looks like you need to check the facts. Verizon's 450 unlimited premium package is only $79.99, At&t is $39.99+30(personal data)+$20(for unlimited text messaging for a phone which that plan does not include any)=$89.99 for the same plan minus the unlimited N/W which At&t gives you 5000 instead. I don't know where or how you compared Verizon's plan starting at $99.99 for 450, the $99.99 is 900 minutes plus 5 friends, and At&t is $59.99+30(personal data)+20(unlimited texts)=$109.99, so really At&t is more expensive. You shouldn't be spouting either...

[iPhoneNYC]

Before my iPhone I used to look forward to getting some fantastic new phone ever two years. Being a NYer I generally signed with Verizon, although I also had ATT contracts early on. I think it would be fun and probably sell more if there were different version of the iPhone out there: say one for ATT and one for Verizon. Different looks, different options - more sales, better for the consumer. And yes, I am absolutely ready for a new iPhone to replace my contract that expires in June.

[Thunder82]

Sigh, UTMS=WCDMA which in the end is a form of CDMA.

Don't quite understand what this has to do with what I posted at all. WCDMA uses a similar air interface to CDMA, but thats about where the similarities end.

[Chupa Chupa]

It would be interesting to see another iPhone competitor. LTE is 100% digital data, i.e., "voice data" becomes a relic, so I'm not sure it's really going to matter at that point. The two carriers will have roaming agreements so the service for both carriers will be similar. As far as evilness ATT and Verizon share the same horns too.

[diamond.g]

Don't quite understand what this has to do with what I posted at all. WCDMA uses a similar air interface to CDMA, but thats about where the similarities end.

It was more of the whole CDMA is dead thing, which isn't true. CDMA2000 is though. I think it sucks that CDMA is being crapped on when the idea of Code Division Multiple Access is what is driving UTMS (well the Wideband version). Qualcomm did a good job making everyone believe that CDMA2000 is CDMA. Which is a shame...

[davidbrummy]

Competition is good for all of us. Screw this exclusive deal. I want options.

+1

Hopefully it will stop the whole "when are we getting a CDMA phone" conversations that happen every 5 mins.

It has been highly reported that Apple went to Verizon and got turned down and then went to AT&T. I often wonder if that is sour grapes fro Verizon as Apple was considering a number of options (MVNO) at the time and may have just gone with AT&T in the first place.

[ccrandall77]

See, you are the perfect example of why Apple *doesn't* do a CDMA phone. You insist on Sprint -- well that's never going to happen, because Sprint is a dead end, as the only US company not committed to 4G LTE tech. So even if they came out with a CDMA iPhone you still wouldn't switch to one because it wouldn't be on Sprint (or not have one of those must have features).

Secondly it surely isn't technically difficult to produce a CDMA phone, but it may be close to impossible to produce an iPhone that is both CDMA and GSM/3G phone (which it would need to be), plus WiFi etc. and not be any thicker and still have decent battery life. RIM didn't manage it: there is no WiFi on the Storm and it is thicker than the iPhone anyway.

Nonsense. First, I didn't insist on anything. I'm on Sprint... maybe if it came to VZW I'd switch. All I said was IF it came out for Sprint, I'd probably get one today.

Is Sprint a dead-end company, time will tell... at least they are already rolling out 4G while others are only talking about it. If they can fix customer support and if the Pre does well, who knows. Again, there's no real technical reason if Apple really wanted to make a phone compatible with a certain carrier that they could not do so.

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.

[xxmjumpman23xx]

Hmmm my Verizon contract expires in December of this year. I was thinking of ATT but I just may have to wait and see if Apple comes to Verizon. Hopefully we get more info later in the year.

[Thunder82]

Hmmm my Verizon contract expires in December of this year. I was thinking of ATT but I just may have to wait and see if Apple comes to Verizon. Hopefully we get more info later in the year.

Time will certainly tell. An iPhone on Verizon certainly isn't impossible, just not very probable in my opinion.

[gkarris]

LOL....

Yeah, like AT&T is gonna let another carrier in the US have an iPhone... :eek:

Plus, isn't Verizon a TOTAL JOKE?

Last I heard, Verizon nickle and dimes you for everything. Like if you want to sync your computer contacts with your Smartphone, Verizon charges $9.99/month for it. You have to buy all the music and videos through them only and you need a dataplan to do so. You can't play your own ripped CD's/DVD's.

With the iPhone, Apple allows you to play your own content, and sync your info without a monthly fee. Verizon hates this sort of thing.

Verizon, users, please don't get angry and insult/flame me. Please feel free to correct me. I'm working off of info from years back (too lazy to search for the latest info). Thanks...

[butterfly0fdoom]

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

HSPA : UTMS/WCDMA :: EDGE : GSM. On the other hand, LTE : UTMS/WCDMA :: UTMS/WCDMA : GSM. Or, in other words, the GSM to UTMS transition was one that required a different radio in the phone and different software. Likewise, the UTMS to LTE transition will be the same. HSPA is a modification of UTMS for higher speeds, just like how EDGE was a modification of GSM for higher speeds.

[DisturbedLen]

Verizon? Yawn...
We need a provider that doesn't rip us off on overpriced voice plans. How about a data only plan that allows voip? We're not gonna see that happen until a new carrier startup comes around.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Nonsense. First, I didn't insist on anything. I'm on Sprint... maybe if it came to VZW I'd switch. All I said was IF it came out for Sprint, I'd probably get one today.

Is Sprint a dead-end company, time will tell... at least they are already rolling out 4G while others are only talking about it. If they can fix customer support and if the Pre does well, who knows. Again, there's no real technical reason if Apple really wanted to make a phone compatible with a certain carrier that they could not do so.

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.

Remember, we're discussing a thread where VZW is stating that any iPhone for VZW would happen after the LTE rollout. EV-DO carriers and UTMS carriers alike are switching to LTE. Except for Sprint. The iPhone will never be available for Sprint.

[kingtj]

I was at an AT&T sponsored event at the local Mariott hotel just yesterday. The topic was the future of mobility with AT&T wireless products.

Honestly, they didn't have a *whole* lot to say that most of us don't already know, but they implied that the LTE data network upgrade is a big part of their overall picture for future offerings. (EG. AT&T takes the position than the concept of a phone primarily being a device you carry around to talk on is becoming "outdated", and people need to start viewing cellphones as "portable data platforms" instead. They acknowledge that the relatively slow data speeds have hindered this "vision" - but once a 4G network is running, new opportunities open up.) They also claimed that the new network was projected to begin by 4th. quarter of 2009 (though that may just mean it's ready for internal testing purposes, and not ready for public use yet?).

Among other things, they mentioned the iPhone as a big part of their vision for future offerings, and suggested such things as streaming video to the iPhone being a complimentary component to "big events" viewed on television. (EG. You'd watch a major sporting event in high-def on TV with your AT&T U-Verse subscription, and that would include the ability to use your iPhone as a secondary display, showing an alternate camera view or "replay views" of things in tandem with the show.)


Verizon won't have anything close to a nationwide rollout of LTE in 2010 though (even though they're starting this year), and the phones still have to fall back on CDMA, whereas the AT&T LTE phones fall back on GSM. I can see an LTE phone working on BOTH once there is sufficient coverage. I can't really see a Verizon LTE iPhone in 2010 unless they really move their ass in rolling it out. 2011 or 2012 certainly. 2010 seems too soon. If they offer all customers femtocell base stations at least they can get coverage in their houses, lol.

Don't forget AT&T is supposedly starting their LTE rollout in 2010 also.

[kdarling]

I don't recall ever saying it was specific only to the GSM line of evolution, or even that it was available only to GSM based carriers. LTE certainly does fall under the GSM line of evolution though, according to 3GPP, making it ideal that a carriers underlying network be GSM & UMTS, not CDMA or CDMA2000.

LTE is a clean break from both GSM and CDMA. Its underlying IP network is totally different from, and incompatible with, either of those old ones. Same for the air interface.

This is why any LTE based phone will require older radios and networks to fall back on, outside of LTE coverage, for quite some time to come.

Partially true, any carrier can use LTE. But LTE is built on the GSM/WCDMA standard.

No, it's not.

UMB was the CDMA alternative but it never took off. Thus CDMA is a dead technology.

And GSM is also dead technology, if everyone moves to LTE. But that won't happen for another decade or so. Both GSM and CDMA will continue for a long time.

LTE is an upgrade of UMTS which only T-Mobile has, so really all T-Mo needs to do is upgrade software when the time comes. HSPDA and EV-DO need to be over hauled.

Totally ridiculous. UMTS is based on old GSM backends, with WCDMA as the air interface. LTE is based on an all-IP backend, with OFDMA as the most common air interface.

And yes, LTE is intended for mobile devices. Your statement about it being more for stationary devices is just silly.
Verizon's public LTE roadmap (http://news.vzw.com/LTE/Dick_Lynch_MWC_Final.pdf) states exactly what I said... their LTE will be first used for non-phone functions (http://gigaom.com/2009/02/18/verizon-will-have-lte-smartphones-in-2011/).

[Sehnsucht]

Verizon just bought out T-Mobile. So it is all Verizon now. No more T-Mobile.

You mean Alltel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alltel). T-Mobile is a GSM network which is totally incompatible with Verizon's own CDMA network, so it would make absolutely no sense for Verizon to buy out something that they couldn't make use of. The Alltel network, on the other hand, is 1xEV-DO (3G CDMA), same as Verizon's.

But yeah, T-Mobile blows. Their coverage is always horrible and I hate their stupid pink-and-white theme. :D

[Sehnsucht]

Plus, isn't Verizon a TOTAL JOKE?

Last I heard, Verizon nickle and dimes you for everything. Like if you want to sync your computer contacts with your Smartphone, Verizon charges $9.99/month for it. You have to buy all the music and videos through them only and you need a dataplan to do so. You can't play your own ripped CD's/DVD's.

With the iPhone, Apple allows you to play your own content, and sync your info without a monthly fee. Verizon hates this sort of thing.

:D Like I said earlier, Steve will set his RDF phasers to "Maximum" and the Verizon suits won't know what hit them. The conversation will begin, "Sorry Steve, no iTunes, it's going to be VCast on the...." BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! And when they wake up, they'll simply sign on the dotted line. :D

But in all seriousness...Apple would never. If Verizon tried to pull that crippling crap, the deal wouldn't happen and Apple would walk. :cool:

[cleric]

Before my iPhone I used to look forward to getting some fantastic new phone ever two years. Being a NYer I generally signed with Verizon, although I also had ATT contracts early on. I think it would be fun and probably sell more if there were different version of the iPhone out there: say one for ATT and one for Verizon. Different looks, different options - more sales, better for the consumer. And yes, I am absolutely ready for a new iPhone to replace my contract that expires in June.

I assure you this will never happen

[dave4122]

Yeah! Screw AT&T! I get no service where I live, and they overcharge a lot. Here's hoping Verison keeps it under $80/month ;)

I pay about $97 for my bill(unlimted everthing except for my minuets yet i have 900) with verizon(Voyager) which i totatly hate this phone. So im willing to pay the same if the iphone comes to verizon. Hopefully apple will let the vznavigator work on the iphone. The vznav has to be the best mobile phone GPS out there or at least that i have seen.:)

[Ted13]

Why would a CDMA iPhone have to support GSM as well? This makes no sense. They can do what plenty of other companies have done, like RIM... make a GSM version and a CDMA version. Whether or not Apple finds it in their best interest to do this is a different matter, but technically I don't see a reason why they couldn't do a version for VZW and/or Sprint.
Because a CDMA only iPhone would be a brick the moment someone got off the plane in Europe and most of the rest of the world. Apple would never stand for that -- the iPhone really shines when you are traveling and need your email, last minute travel/hotel/tourist/business info, etc. And iPhone users as a demographic travel more.

You should have seen the faces on a bunch of Verizon users when we were all off the plane and waiting for a shuttle on a recent trip, and everyone with an iPhone or other T-Mobile or AT&T phone were happily calling or texting that we had arrived. The Verizon people were very, very upset once it was explained to them that their phones were useless for their duration of their trip. I can only imagine how much more upset they'd be if their super-duper iPhone didn't work.

[Nermal]

That's interesting. If I go to Europe or another country without CDMA2000 then my carrier will give me a GSM phone to use while I'm away (just a cheapie, a Nokia 6070). Alternatively I can supply my own GSM/WCDMA phone and just get a SIM card for it.

This will all change when my carrier launches its new WCDMA network in June :)

[Ted13]

I have never paid for a ringtone on vzw....you can mms them to your phone.
And that MMS service is free is suppose? Trust me, you are paying for the "privilege" of loading your ringtones, one way or another.

[MikeTheC]

1. Steve invites Ivan over for dinner.
2. Verizon converts to GSM.
3. Profit.

[Ted13]

That's interesting. If I go to Europe or another country without CDMA2000 then my carrier will give me a GSM phone to use while I'm away (just a cheapie, a Nokia 6070). Alternatively I can supply my own GSM/WCDMA phone and just get a SIM card for it.

This will all change when my carrier launches its new WCDMA network in June :)
Yeah, I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if you had an iPhone and they gave you an el-cheepo flip phone and said, "here, use this". Presumably if the VZW folks on our trip had checked they could have gotten a GSM travel phone -- but they've been listening about how Verizon was the best for so long it didn't even occur to them.

Certainly no seasoned traveler would make that mistake, but honestly I know of NO habitual travelers that are on VZW or Sprint precisely for that reason. Years and years ago I was on Verizon (with a Motorola StarTac - hah), had a similar rude awakening on my first trip, and switched to VoiceStream (now T-Mobile) the moment I got back.

[Nermal]

Yeah, I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if you had an iPhone and they gave you an el-cheepo flip phone and said, "here, use this".

Well, I wouldn't have an iPhone because it's not CDMA2000, so here we are back at square one again :p

Come June, I could start using an iPhone on WCDMA, and it of course could fall back to GSM if I go overseas.

[kdarling]

Yeah, I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if you had an iPhone and they gave you an el-cheepo flip phone and said, "here, use this".

Actually, they might be happy if that happened. :)

Apple doesn't allow people to use local SIMs, which is a major selling point for GSM phones... so a lot of users get an el-cheapo flip phone for travel anyway.

[aristobrat]

Apple doesn't allow people to use local SIMs, which is a major selling point for GSM phones... so a lot of users get an el-cheapo flip phone for travel anyway.
I don't think that's an Apple thing. Seems to be a carrier thing.

Apple appears to be selling the iPhone on 25 carriers where the iPhone comes unlocked out of the box, and there appear to be about 45+ other carriers that will authorize unlocking the iPhone for use with other SIMs.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

[jettredmont]

First, let me point out that, after 80 previous posts, someone finally makes the statement that if what you like about Verizon is the network, all bets are off for 4G. Thank you!

Verizon's 4G network will be NO BETTER than AT&T's 4G network...

In fact they'll both be equal. Stronger and weaker in different areas with different spectrum ownership and different tower densities. Of course LTE technology running on 700/850/1900 will be the exact same on Verizon that it will be on AT&T. The reason that Verizon's network is so solid right now is because it's the MOST MATURE network of all the U.S. cell providers. Verizon has been using CDMA almost since the beginning of the millenium. AT&T started deploying 3G in like 2005/2006, EDGE/GSM around 03-04. Therefore they've had the most time to solidify and expand network holes and weak spots.


Not quite true, but close. Verizon's network is rock solid (in many of the high-population centers of the US) because it has rights to more of the low-band (800MHz) signals (which according to the laws of physics tend to travel farther and penetrate solid structures like buildings better than the alternative for US CDMA/GSM: 1900MHz range signals). Conversely, in other areas of the country, Sprint or AT&T got those early rights, and those are the places you'll see folks crowing about how great AT&T's coverage is or how much Verizon sucks. It's all about physics, frankly, and the vagaries of FCC frequency actions.

That having been said, there is a HUGE question about 4G, which operates variably in the 700, 1700, 2100, and 2500MHz ranges. Who took up those sweet 700MHz blocks in your area last year? [See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/700_MHz_wireless_spectrum_auction]. I'd bet dollars for donuts (and I don't like donuts) that whoever owns the 700MHz band in your area is going to be the absolute best 4G service provider, hands down.

That having been said, the 1900MHz advantages could be overcome quite easily: you just need either higher-power cell towers (although that's generally not allowed by local laws) or more of them. The problem is that "more of them" means more expense and more hassle. Which is why Sprint and AT&T both suck where I live.

Also, CDMA technology by nature holds calls stronger than GSM does. Your call will degrade itself to the point where you can't hear the person on the other end (and you have to call them back to get a new connection), but damnit you'll still be connected. WCDMA (3G) does the same thing, but since it's a newer technology AT&T is still tuning it to perfection. In areas with 3G on the 850MHz band, service is absolutely stunning and far superior to Verizon.

Can't comment on the accuracy of this, although I've heard the same said both ways (that CDMA is more fault tolerant and that GSM is more fault tolerant). Seems like there should be a single answer to that question, but I can't find which is really true. Anecdotally, I've had really crappy but still connected conversations on both CDMA and GSM cell phones (my sister in law has a Sprint contract and all her phones have come through like they're being held underwater and shot with a BB gun, for instance; I've gotten calls from folks at work from their iPhones which sound better than that, but far from crystal clear).

[kdarling]

Can't comment on the accuracy of this, although I've heard the same said both ways (that CDMA is more fault tolerant and that GSM is more fault tolerant).

Under CDMA, the phone can be connected to more than one tower at a time, which is why there's so few dropped calls... it's a soft handoff between them.

Under GSM, the phone is only connected to one tower at a time. So it must drop one to pick up the next... a hard handoff, which can cause dropped calls.

Of note also is that GSM had to use CDMA for its 3G, to get more speed and simultaneous connections.

[macjonny1]

what do all you guys like Verizon so much for?!?!? I just got an iphone 2 wks ago and AT&T has been fine. I've had Verizon for years. I put up with the Blackberry Storm for 4 months thinking it was as good but it sucked compared to the iphone. Verizon is crap! They never get the good phones, they disable them (wifi anyone?), and they have all of their stupid VCast proprietary crap all over their non-blackberry phones. Their coverage is better? That's going to vary depending on where you are. I'm lucky I guess that they have about the same coverage where I'm at

[apollo92178]

If the iPhone ever goes Verizon it's game over for the rest.

The question that should be asked is if a new iPhone comes out this summer will it work on a 4G network?? Is this going to be like EDGE and 3G?

[kdarling]

what do all you guys like Verizon so much for?!?!?

No carrier is perfect, that's for sure. Each usually concentrates on a particular sales area... price, selection, service, whatever.

Verizon truly believes (right or wrong) that the network is the core reason to select a carrier, and they bend over backwards trying to make theirs the best.

For example, whereas ATT and others make up coverage maps by computer analysis, Verizon has hundreds of trucks that roam the country actually mapping their coverage (thus the origin of those godawful "can you hear me now" commercials)... and they try to fix holes when possible.

In the Northeast, especially, this means almost no dropped calls. If you report a dead spot in NYC, they try to fix it. Heck, when the Trade Towers fell, Verizon was first on the scene with portable cells trying to find buried survivors. In NYC, they're king.

Verizon is crap! They never get the good phones, they disable them (wifi anyone?), and they have all of their stupid VCast proprietary crap all over their non-blackberry phones.

No, they don't remove wifi. And their other smartphones don't have vcast stuff either.

(Personally I like Sprint a lot, but can't use them where I go.)

[macjonny1]

No, they don't remove wifi. And their other smartphones don't have vcast stuff either.

(Personally I like Sprint a lot, but can't use them where I go.)

I should say "not allow" rather than disable. There is no reason the BB Storm should not have had wifi.

[kdarling]

I should say "not allow" rather than disable. There is no reason the BB Storm should not have had wifi.

I doubt Verizon was responsible. They have no problem with WiFi on other smartphones, especially since they took a page from ATT and Apple and now require a data plan.

More likely RIM figured that, as with their other World phones with CDMA and GSM, they had enough radios in it already. At least it had 3G, unlike the first iPhone.

Rumors say that the Storm II will have WiFi in September.

[DiamondMac]

I have no idea whether this would be a good or bad move.

I just hope that reception improves drastically in the next year or so with the iPhone

I have had both iPhones on launch days and LOVE IT but the reception has been an absolute joke compared to past phones.

[IronCross]

First, let me point out that, after 80 previous posts, someone finally makes the statement that if what you like about Verizon is the network, all bets are off for 4G. Thank you!



Not quite true, but close. Verizon's network is rock solid (in many of the high-population centers of the US) because it has rights to more of the low-band (800MHz) signals (which according to the laws of physics tend to travel farther and penetrate solid structures like buildings better than the alternative for US CDMA/GSM: 1900MHz range signals). Conversely, in other areas of the country, Sprint or AT&T got those early rights, and those are the places you'll see folks crowing about how great AT&T's coverage is or how much Verizon sucks. It's all about physics, frankly, and the vagaries of FCC frequency actions.

That having been said, there is a HUGE question about 4G, which operates variably in the 700, 1700, 2100, and 2500MHz ranges. Who took up those sweet 700MHz blocks in your area last year? [See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/700_MHz_wireless_spectrum_auction]. I'd bet dollars for donuts (and I don't like donuts) that whoever owns the 700MHz band in your area is going to be the absolute best 4G service provider, hands down.

That having been said, the 1900MHz advantages could be overcome quite easily: you just need either higher-power cell towers (although that's generally not allowed by local laws) or more of them. The problem is that "more of them" means more expense and more hassle. Which is why Sprint and AT&T both suck where I live.



Can't comment on the accuracy of this, although I've heard the same said both ways (that CDMA is more fault tolerant and that GSM is more fault tolerant). Seems like there should be a single answer to that question, but I can't find which is really true. Anecdotally, I've had really crappy but still connected conversations on both CDMA and GSM cell phones (my sister in law has a Sprint contract and all her phones have come through like they're being held underwater and shot with a BB gun, for instance; I've gotten calls from folks at work from their iPhones which sound better than that, but far from crystal clear).
Thanks Jettred' :) and you're welcome on pointing that out. Someone finally had to ya know?

In my first statement that you said was close to true, you did catch that I forgot to mention the lower frequencies are the reason for better signal quality. I mentioned it in the sentence previous to it, and my brain was still linking the two ideas together. However, you are accurate in that correction. I did point out though that it depended on spectrum ownership and tower density. :)

Also, the reason CDMA/WCDMA have a lesser tendency to drop calls is due to the fact that CDMA technology connects to multiple towers at once, thus producing much smoother handoffs between towers and less dropped calls. Also, CDMA-based phones SEEM to hold on to, and make the best of a weak signal. GSM/TDMA based technology drops calls more because the handoffs are "hard handoffs" due to the fact that phones only connect to one tower at a time as opposed to multiple towers, thus producing more dropped calls if a GSM tower is overloaded or maxed out in its capacity.

[ovomac]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

[LeroyTheGreat38]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

Clearly the article says a Verizon iPhone won't be likely until they bring out their new network so that answers your question.

As to telling people to move, I hope you aren't serious.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Bidding on a network that isn't ready for a phone that hasn't been announced.

Now that's a solid business.

[bobbleheadbob]

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I've been happier with ATT since switching to get the iPhone (when it first became available in June 2007) than I was with Verizon before that.

[WizardHunt]

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I've been happier with ATT since switching to get the iPhone (when it first became available in June 2007) than I was with Verizon before that.

I am with you. I like AT&T better!

[Nermal]

The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

I'm a bit confused here, as there are many CDMA phones with features similar to iPhones. Which iPhone features would CDMA have problems with?

[RoboCop1]

This would be great! The iPhone NEEDS to be on a better network. Can't wait:cool:

[OrganMusic]

Well I know it's been said before but here's what I saw when I got my new iPhone home today:

http://mysite.verizon.net/respx4js/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ATT-Fail.jpg

So I'm afraid the iPhones are going to have to go back tomorrow. Looks like I'm stuck with Verizon for now. I'm rural, but not QUITE the middle of nowhere.

[butterfly0fdoom]

This would be great! The iPhone NEEDS to be on a better network. Can't wait:cool:

As some others have stated Verizon's LTE network won't be anywhere near as solid as their EV-DO network. Considering that Verizon and AT&T are rolling out LTE within a year of each other, the network with better coverage in your area will be whichever managed to score the 700 MHz spectrum in your area.

[Sehnsucht]

Clearly the article says a Verizon iPhone won't be likely until they bring out their new network so that answers your question.

As to telling people to move, I hope you aren't serious.

I live in Oklahoma and have actually, on more than one occasion, recommended that very thing to several customers at work who have come in to complain that they have no coverage where they live. Where did they live? In the middle of a 5,000+ acre cattle ranch. :eek: Outside a tiny, unincorporated village. :eek: This area where I live/work is very densely populated, but if you drive in one direction for more than an hour, all signs of human population, including cellular towers, disappear. :eek:

:D :D

Well I know it's been said before but here's what I saw when I got my new iPhone home today:

http://mysite.verizon.net/respx4js/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ATT-Fail.jpg

So I'm afraid the iPhones are going to have to go back tomorrow. Looks like I'm stuck with Verizon for now. I'm rural, but not QUITE the middle of nowhere.

:eek: Well at least you can still make phone calls with the phone you're stuck with, even if it isn't made by Apple. :(

[MrSEC]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

I'm guessing you're a teenager???? because you sound like a little bit**.

AT&T is WAY WAY behind on technology when it comes 3G (and even 2G for that matter)to phones.You do relize that both Verizon and Sprint are rolling out(Sprint Wimax),or getting ready to roll out 4g,and AT&T hasn't covered most areas with 3G...

I laugh at you.Please,go educate yourself in a 3g forum....google is your friend.

[polaris20]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

For every person like you that has great success with AT&T, there's someone like me who had horrible experiences with AT&T reception. From Seattle to LA to NJ to NY to Orlando to Portland, Maine to Boston.

I had to use my damn personal phone from T-Mobile for business calls, because my various crappy AT&T phones never got above 1 or 2 bars. Same goes for the Chicago Loop (where I was based).

Personal anecdote? Yup. Just like yours is. But it does prove that AT&T ain't always what it's cracked up to be.

[OrganMusic]

Well at least you can still make phone calls with the phone you're stuck with, even if it isn't made by Apple. :(

But I only want to have one phone :rolleyes: ATT must be the only network that doesn't work out here. US Cellular and Verizon both have great coverage. My wife's Kindle gets 5 bars of 3G too, (not sure whose network that is)

So do you guys all think verizon is going to take ages to deploy 4G, so even if there was a verizon iPhone I wouldn't be any better off...

[Ericatomars]

:apple:bring it on verizon... i cant wait:D:D:D! As much as i admire the iphone i refuse to go to ATT and get crappy service and be over charged.. eww if tmobile got it it wouldnt be that bad too but i currently have verizon and i love the service and its even better with the 5/10 friends and family (tmobiles fav five)

How is spirnt even still in bussiness:confused:, they suck, and we all know that the iphone is what keeping ATT a float!

[yayitsezekiel]

:apple:bring it on verizon... i cant wait:D:D:D! As much as i admire the iphone i refuse to go to ATT and get crappy service and be over charged.. eww if tmobile got it it wouldnt be that bad too but i currently have verizon and i love the service and its even better with the 5/10 friends and family (tmobiles fav five)

How is spirnt even still in bussiness:confused:, they suck, and we all know that the iphone is what keeping ATT a float!

i really hope it comes to verizon as well...hopefully they won't cripple it :rolleyes:

although I am really interested to see how sprint's palm pre does

[MrSEC]

.hopefully they won't cripple it :rolleyes:


Me and you both.The BB Storm that I have is crippled as far as wifi goes.I will give BB one thing,they have push mail that works a treat,and the "business end" of it is great,but outside of that the phone is complete ****....and yes BB fans I have a leaked OS installed .113 to be exact.

You iphone guys would get a real laugh at the crappy youtube video playback you get with the youtube app with RIM. I have an ipod touch,and it makes RIMs version look like p$ss.

The up side is I have 3G no matter where I go,yes,even in some podunk little town with less than 300 population,I still get 3G,but I can go to Clarksville Tennessee with a military base and a major college and I'm back on the EDGE network with my LG AT&T phone that is a 3G phone....The edge network was top notch circa 2005!!!

Don't get me wrong though,I'm not a Verizon fanboi by any streth,but when I pay for a service I would like to be able to use it.The crazy part is AT&T is headquartered in Nashville,but still they lag behind with 3G.Don't believe they suck? Just pull up the 3G map of the US and get a hard laugh.

[scottness]

I am with you. I like AT&T better!

＋１ Ever since I switched to ATT, I stopped getting dropped calls. I drive over the Pali and through the tunnel and still don't drop my calls. They would always drop with my previous carriers (Sprint was the worst offender). Of course, this is in Hawaii. Things are often different out here. I really like my experience with ATT so far, though. No reason to change at all. :)

[pmbooks]

I welcome the news, though I wish they'd be on board when the new iphone arrives this summer. I'm ready to get one, but really hesitate signing up with att, which I can attest to having LOUSY reception in my region (upper eastern shore, Maryland).

[fabianjj]

Wow, you Americans gotta be the most tolerant people on earth when it comes to cell phones.

Incompatible networks, phones with carrier exclusivity, phones being locked, dropped calls?

I guess we're pretty lucky in Europe, because when I buy a phone I go to an electronics outlet, pay full price for any phone, and then chose a carrier I wan't, and any price plan i wan't, should i want to switch carrier or phone? Simply pop out the sim card and put it in the next phone.

And we don't have to endure locked versions of phones we're you can't use bluetooth, or anything like that.

That GSM vs. CDMA battle seems so annoying. In Sweden all carriers use GSM for 2G and WCDMA with HSDPA for 3G (current theoretical maximum speed is 14,4 mbit/s and will be 21,6 mbit/s by the end of the summer) and all carriers will be using LTE for 4G.

Now a few of the biggest carriers here are teaming up, buidling a unified LTE network and unifying their GSM networks for phones to fall back on. which hopefully will give us a mobile broadband solution worthy of replacing the wired ones.


Everything here is this simple except for the iphone, which you can only buy "American style" from Telia (used to be the public utility company responsible for telecommunications in sweden, like AT&T in th US)

[butterfly0fdoom]

Wow, you Americans gotta be the most tolerant people on earth when it comes to cell phones.

Incompatible networks, phones with carrier exclusivity, phones being locked, dropped calls?

I guess we're pretty lucky in Europe, because when I buy a phone I go to an electronics outlet, pay full price for any phone, and then chose a carrier I wan't, and any price plan i wan't, should i want to switch carrier or phone? Simply pop out the sim card and put it in the next phone.

And we don't have to endure locked versions of phones we're you can't use bluetooth, or anything like that.

That GSM vs. CDMA battle seems so annoying. In Sweden all carriers use GSM for 2G and WCDMA with HSDPA for 3G (current theoretical maximum speed is 14,4 mbit/s and will be 21,6 mbit/s by the end of the summer) and all carriers will be using LTE for 4G.

Now a few of the biggest carriers here are teaming up, buidling a unified LTE network and unifying their GSM networks for phones to fall back on. which hopefully will give us a mobile broadband solution worthy of replacing the wired ones.


Everything here is this simple except for the iphone, which you can only buy "American style" from Telia (used to be the public utility company responsible for telecommunications in sweden, like AT&T in th US)

Americans are tolerant of the system because it's just the way American Capitalism works.

That said AT&T, even if they didn't have an exclusivity contract extended, would still have de facto exclusivity until LTE is rolled out anyway because of T-Mobile's choice of wonky frequencies for 3G (although GSM/EDGE would still work fine) and everyone else' complete incompatibility with GSM/WCDMA.

[winterspan]

That simply isn't true. In fact, there's no compelling reason to do it at all.


Really? You mean millions more in unit sales from Verizon, Sprint, and international CDMA carriers isn't a compelling reason? Go look at the analysts data from customer surverys where a significant percentage of wireless users said they were interested in purchasing an iPhone --- and many claimed they were simply waiting for it to be available on their network provider.


... and Apple isn't anywhere near GSM saturation such that the opportunity cost of developing a CDMA version would be worth more than investing that same amount in improving availability of existing models.


Speaking solely for the American situation, that is completely incorrect. Use the CDMA iPhone resources for "Improving availability"?? How exactly would that work? The only other major GSM carrier is Tmobile, and they don't have even a nationwide 3G network (not to mention it uses 1700mhz spectrum which the iPhone doesn't support.) iPhone sales on AT&T are going to stall at some point, and the only way to find major growth in the United States will be availability on Verizon and Sprint, who combined have most of the other cellphone subscribers in the USA.



When LTE comes around and a sizable network exists, Verizon may well be a prime candidate for an iPhone. It won't be able to fall back on CDMA, but it wouldn't stop iPhone adoption, either, assuming Verizon got the timing right and/or arranged for roaming agreements for GSM fallback.


Why is Verizon not a "prime candidate" right now? LTE is not going to be in widespread use for at least 18+ months at a minimum, and even when it is being used the phones will almost certainly use a CDMA radio as fallback.
If this is the case, then Apple would do well to get a head start on CDMA network engineering/testing.



Spoken with true ignorance of what's involved in a "relatively simple fix".
...All of it is doable, but it is much more common for something not to be worthwhile practically, technologically, economically, and logistically than people commonly insist.


Actually, I'm quite aware of the technical challenges it would require, but my point remains. Based on the 100 million CDMA users in the United States alone (which is easily the largest market for the iPhone based on its popularity), it should be well worth the investment -- not even counting
the hundreds of millions more CDMA users internationally. Nearly every other International phone manufacturer makes models for both CDMA and GSM networks, and some use make universal models which use a combined chipset. Surely Apple is capable of managing the same for when they only have to worry about ONE product model.



When Apple runs out of room in the 3.4 billion GSM user category, they can worry about picking up a few million in the CDMA dead-end.

You are missing the point. Although GSM is far more popular, billions of those users are in the developing world where the iPhone is far from affordable, and hundreds of millions more are in countries where the iPhone has not done very well.

Regardless, just the CDMA subscribers in North America easily justifies the expense and effort of creating a CDMA iPhone or a universal GSM/CDMA iPhone. North America alone over 100 millions CDMA subscribers and particularly the United States has been vastly more receptive to the iPhone than all the other countries in the world.

Again, the AT&T iPhone market is going to be saturated, as many will NOT be switching to their network just for the device. The only way to grow is to tap into the millions of USA/Canadian CDMA subscribers that are just waiting for an iPhone to be available on their network.

Do you honestly think that the revenue from an easy 3-8 million CDMA iPhone sales over 12-18 months, including revenue from the App store, and the potential to lockin many new users into the iPhone/iTunes ecosystem is not worth the development costs of a CDMA iPhone? Particularly when they are no doubt going to end up making an LTE iPhone that falls back on CDMA in the future anyways?

[diegogalban]

Just to set the record straight:

According to www.gsm.org:

AT&T has 850/1900 GSM and 850/1900 WCDMA/HSDPA.
T-Mobile has ONLY 1900 GSM and 1700/2100 WCDMA/HSDPA.

For example: in most of the EU, the WCDMA networks are operating on 2100mhz.

My point as a Spaniard: go GSM or WCDMA, as the rest of the world has it as their standard for wireless communications.

[kdarling]

North America alone over 100 millions CDMA subscribers ...

Over 148 million CDMA subscribers in North America.

... and particularly the United States has been vastly more receptive to the iPhone than all the other countries in the world.

Yep, about half of all 3G iPhones have been sold in the US. The other half is scattered among all its other countries.

[geokost]

Besides reading this long thread, I have no clue which network will do what, but I do know that AT&T only covers about 20% of my county, and that does not work for me.

I still have to use Alltel or whatever they call themselves now, and would like to have an iPhone.

So whatever they could make work here, I would buy an iPhone then, but not until then.

[winterspan]

Over 148 million CDMA subscribers in North America.

Yep, about half of all 3G iPhones have been sold in the US. The other half is scattered among all its other countries.

Thanks for the numbers... they just further make my point that this other guy is crazy when he says there is no compelling reason for making a CDMA iPhone... :confused:
I would be VERY surprised if Apple continued this exclusivity BS for any longer than the original contract specified. In fact, I'm surprised and very disappointed that it has taken this long! Surely they knew from the start how limiting a single carrier would be... They should have kept the agreement no longer than 18 or 24 months

[yayitsezekiel]

Thanks for the numbers... they just further make my point that this other guy is crazy when he says there is no compelling reason for making a CDMA iPhone... :confused:
I would be VERY surprised if Apple continued this exclusivity BS for any longer than the original contract specified. In fact, I'm surprised and very disappointed that it has taken this long! Surely they knew from the start how limiting a single carrier would be... They should have kept the agreement no longer than 18 or 24 months

i agree with you. Even if the iPhone gets on Verizon's current 3g network, I can see tons of new 3g reliant features being implemented on the iphone such as video conferencing and such that isn't really possible with AT&T's spotty 3g network.

I just hope verizon will be willing to let apple call the shots :rolleyes:

[dave4122]

Than when can see the VZ navigator on the iphone a true mobile GPS none this goolge map crap.:)

[yayitsezekiel]

Than when can see the VZ navigator on the iphone a true mobile GPS none this goolge map crap.:)

that made me laugh :p

[oammi2]

Than when can see the VZ navigator on the iphone a true mobile GPS none this goolge map crap.:)

Haha Yea would be nice :p

[cleric]

Verizon on the iPhone will never happen. Apple won't allow Verizon to cripple their phone (or steve more accurately). Verizon won't take part in the apple business model for the iphone. A CDMA phone would still need to be made. Not to mention Verizon was proud not to have the iPhone.

[OrganMusic]

Not to mention Verizon was proud not to have the iPhone.


Oh yeah any verizon agent will really look down their nose at you if you mention the iPhone. One guy was very proud to tell me "we turned them down before and we'll turn them down again because they won't be ready for the [4g] network"

Then he told me the reason I couldn't figure out how to use the BB Storm just picking it up was that it was so much more sophisticated and had so many more features.

[matticus008]

Really? You mean millions more in unit sales from Verizon, Sprint, and international CDMA carriers isn't a compelling reason?
You mean zero additional US sales, with the only other international CDMA markets being where the iPhone would be priced out of reach for the bulk of that market, as you categorically and humorously claim for GSM (the number of "developed nation" customers on GSM where the iPhone is not available locally exceeds the total number of CDMA users worldwide, for crying out loud). There can be no Verizon or Sprint iPhone until at least next year.
and many claimed they were simply waiting for it to be available on their network provider.
Key word being "claimed". The thing about consumer surveys is that you get unreliable results when the situation is entirely hypothetical.
Use the CDMA iPhone resources for "Improving availability"?? How exactly would that work? The only other major GSM carrier is Tmobile
I'm referring, obviously, to expansion into international markets. How would it work? The way it currently works. You spend money in carrier deals, foreign regulatory compliance, backend development, and iTunes Store arrangements--i.e. improve availability of the product.

Seeing as though there is no option to approach Verizon or any other US carrier and that the LTE version may well be offered on Verizon, engineering a dead-end CDMA product remains, as always, uncompelling. T-Mobile is irrelevant.
Phone sales on AT&T are going to stall at some point, and the only way to find major growth in the United States will be availability on Verizon and Sprint, who combined have most of the other cellphone subscribers in the USA.
Yeah, and when that happens, CDMA will have several more nails in its coffin, making it even less worthwhile an effort and less attractive a technology.
Why is Verizon not a "prime candidate" right now?
It's barred by contract and it's CDMA. It's not exactly a hugely nuanced situation.
LTE is not going to be in widespread use for at least 18+ months at a minimum
Correct. Right about the time the AT&T exclusivity ends.
the phones will almost certainly use a CDMA radio as fallback.
In the case of the iPhone, highly doubtful.
Based on the 100 million CDMA users in the United States alone (which is easily the largest market for the iPhone based on its popularity), it should be well worth the investment -- not even counting
the hundreds of millions more CDMA users internationally.
Again, 400 million versus 4 billion. All for a technology that will be phased out within the next five years. It would be a dead-end model and that's exactly why it hasn't happened and won't.
Nearly every other International phone manufacturer makes models for both CDMA and GSM networks
Because they're in the business of doing so. If they didn't have to, they wouldn't, and if they were starting up this year, they wouldn't, either. It's not worth the investment when GSM sales remain strong and untapped and with next-generation networks already in the pre-deployment phase. It'd be like a startup company introducing an analog cell phone in 1999.
You are missing the point. Although GSM is far more popular, billions of those users are in the developing world where the iPhone is far from affordable
You're just misconstruing the point; it's not being missed. Verizon is a single provider operating a dead-end technology. Going through the necessary work, which you still dismiss implicitly through horrendously unparallel arguments about irrelevant factors, for a single model, for a single carrier, for a period of time barely longer than a single year, just flat out isn't happening.

The only way to grow is to tap into the millions of USA/Canadian CDMA subscribers that are just waiting for an iPhone to be available on their network.
You keep using this argument, but it makes no sense. There's nowhere to go beyond that market. It is, for the nth time, a dead end. Once they get the few million Verizon diehards who would, in fact, buy one, that's it. There is zero potential for further growth. If you want to talk about market saturation, that's a one-step game. The GSM market is nowhere near saturated, in stark contrast. To grow, Apple simply needs to expand the availability of its current products, aggressively price future products, and ride the wave of "new money" markets.

You can't argue that Verizon on CDMA is a strategy for long-term growth. Verizon's a good investment, but on LTE, not on CDMA.
Particularly when they are no doubt going to end up making an LTE iPhone that falls back on CDMA in the future anyways?
The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.

[diamond.g]

The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.

Oddly enough kdarling seems to be pretty sure Verizon isn't going to use LTE for voice in the beginning. Do you have anything that would refute that point? Besides Verizon and AT&T who else is doing LTE? Is anyone going to have it up at the same time as Verizon?

[kdarling]

The LTE iPhone will, in all likelihood, not fall back to CDMA networks. Verizon customers will either have to deal with spotty LTE service areas or hope Verizon puts together a good roaming agreement for its LTE products.

An early LTE phone would most likely still use CDMA/GSM for voice. The data would use LTE and fall back if necessary.

CDMA will be around for probably another decade. Yes, eventually it will go away and be replaced by LTE, but that's also true of GSM. (Remember, we're talking about a Verizon phone in the US market. The rest of the world doesn't matter here.)

As for LTE cellphones, read this Verizon interview (http://gigaom.com/2009/02/18/verizon-will-have-lte-smartphones-in-2011/):

"When I asked (Verizon CTO Dick Lynch) about LTE handset deployments, he said there will be a few handsets and laptop cards with LTE about a year after the 2010 LTE network launch, but he stressed that voice is going to be carried over the 3G network well into the next decade — LTE will be for devices."

This is all mapped out in this Verizon slide show (http://news.vzw.com/LTE/Dick_Lynch_MWC_Final.pdf), pointing out that they intend to concentrate on purely data devices with LTE at first.

[OrganMusic]

Makes sense, I can live without data everywhere but I need voice coverage to be at least as good as it is now with VZW.

I was looking at smart phones at a Verizon store today, saying how I really wished I could have the iphone and a VZ agent ACTUALLY TOLD ME they were getting the iPhone in January.

Which I of course will believe it when I see it. On the other hand I can't believe an agent would have said that even if it were true. I didn't press her on it too hard though.

[AppleCrakintosh]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.


I agree, I have great service with At&t I don't see what the big deal is, I had nextel at the 2G launch bought the 8GB on launch day and never looked back. I even paid a $150 early termination fee. Verizon's service sucks as far as I am concerned the AT&T haters out there complain about there service hop on verizon's outdated CDMA network and see how you like it.

At&t is dropping the ball regarding MMS and tethering, but if there networks can't handle the load of tethering right now, I'd rather wait then have it slow down to a crawl because people decide to drop broadband and use their iPhone as a modem. As far as I am concerned Verizon missed there chance, Apple came to them at the start and offered them exclusivity and Verizon wanted cheaper phones more profit and wanted to brand the phone with there stupid logo. An they passed on it when they didn't get there way. AT&T took a chance an look at them they are breaking company records with Apple, don't expect to see Verizon having the iPhone anytime soon, AT&T will give anything an everything to stay the only US carrier to have that phone. They are doing too well to give it up.

[rwilliams]

I HOPE THIS IS A JOKE.

Verizon and Sprint SUCK!
They are CDMA Networks. WHY would a prestigeous company like Apple want to partner with a crappy CDMA-based cell carrier? Verizon and Sprint are the absolute worst. The reason the iPhone is on AT&T is because it is the only network suitable to handle the demands of the iPhone.

And for all of you people who have reception issues, get out of the 2% area that AT&T hasn't reached YET and move to a bigger better city like Philly who has absolutely no reception loss. I have no problems with my iPhone. EVER.
So stop complaining. You don't need an iPhone if you're going to moan about it.

What a ridiculously ignorant post.

[Tower-Union]

Wow, you know I think that's the first AT&T fanboy I've ever seen. I wonder how he feels about the lack of MMS/tethering now from AT&T. Ahahaha.

[AppleCrakintosh]

Wow, you know I think that's the first AT&T fanboy I've ever seen. I wonder how he feels about the lack of MMS/tethering now from AT&T. Ahahaha.

I can tell you don't have an iPhone, I sense a little bit of bitterness ;)

[darklighter]

It makes sense. It would be the 4th generation iPhone running on a 4th generation cellular network.

Hence, iPhone 4G

iPhone--> iPhone 3G--> iPhone 3Gs--> iPhone 4G

[Tallest Skil]

It makes sense. It would be the 4th generation iPhone running on a 4th generation cellular network.

Hence, iPhone 4G

iPhone--> iPhone 3G--> iPhone 3Gs--> iPhone 4G

Will any of the four carriers have anything remotely close to a 4G network by June 2010?

[techfreak85]

Will any of the four carriers have anything remotely close to a 4G network by June 2010?

i hope so... but i highly doubt it.
ATT might cause i herd somewhere their 3g towers can become 4g with just a firmware upgrade or something.

alas, i can only hope.

[Revelation78]

i hope so... but i highly doubt it.
ATT might cause i herd somewhere their 3g towers can become 4g with just a firmware upgrade or something.

alas, i can only hope.

No the firmware update is to bring the current max of 3.6 MBs to 7.2 MBs. LTE is a complete hardware overhaul on the front end and back end of AT&T's network.

[kdarling]

Will any of the four carriers have anything remotely close to a 4G network by June 2010?

Verizon recently said they plan on launching their LTE network in 20-30 markets starting in the second half of 2010, with complete nationwide coverage by late 2013 or early 2014.

[Tallest Skil]

Verizon recently said they plan on launching their LTE network in 20-30 markets starting in the second half of 2010, with complete nationwide coverage by late 2013 or early 2014.

So by 2013 we'll have had six more iPhone updates.

Yeah. That gives Apple PLENTY of excuses to upgrade everything else about the phone.

Assuming storage continues its current rate of increase, the 2013 iPhone will have 512GB of storage. The processor could very well be 1.5 GHz, and a dedicated (built into the CPU?) graphics processor could be possible.

Bluetooth 3.0, Dock Connector upgraded to USB 3.0 speeds, and 802.11n Wi-Fi are also possible. I'm not joking about these.

[xIGmanIx]

So by 2013 we'll have had six more iPhone updates.

Yeah. That gives Apple PLENTY of excuses to upgrade everything else about the phone.

Assuming storage continues its current rate of increase, the 2013 iPhone will have 512GB of storage. The processor could very well be 1.5 GHz, and a dedicated (built into the CPU?) graphics processor could be possible.

Bluetooth 3.0, Dock Connector upgraded to USB 3.0 speeds, and 802.11n Wi-Fi are also possible. I'm not joking about these.

still no tethering or MMS though

[Tallest Skil]

still no tethering or MMS though

You kidding? Of course not. AT&T isn't so stupid as to actually give customers features that phone manufacturers promise.

[AppleCrakintosh]

I never used MMS before moving to At&t for the 2G launch, but now that I don't have it, STILL. I want it so bad.

Back to topic, I don't think Verizon will get the iPhone anytime soon, AT&T is breaking company records left and right, if I were on AT&T's board, I'd give Apple whatever is necessary to keep exclusivity of the iPhone.

As someone mentioned, by the time 4G is rolled out on a large basis the iPhone will blow most if not all other smart phones out of the water (some will say it does now) so in turn would draw more people to AT&T.

AT&T needs to invest more into there network, if they expect to keep Apple. Soon there won't be a "simple phone" out there.

[NovemberWhiskey]

Back to topic, I don't think Verizon will get the iPhone anytime soon, AT&T is breaking company records left and right, if I were on AT&T's board, I'd give Apple whatever is necessary to keep exclusivity of the iPhone.


I agree. I really don't think ATT is ready to give up the iphone exclusivity deal with Apple. The iPhone is their crowned jewel.

[Sehnsucht]

Bluetooth 3.0, Dock Connector upgraded to USB 3.0 speeds, and 802.11n Wi-Fi are also possible. I'm not joking about these.

I thought 802.11n in a handset was already possible now? Why on earth they didn't include it in the 3GS is beyond me.

To wit:

MacBook Pro, 802.11n WiFi card:

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/510688473.png

And on 2G, 802.11b/g iPod touch, same AEBS:

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/download.jpg

802.11n comes very close to saturating the total bandwidth of my connection, whereas G is nowhere near that.

I hope they include an N chip in the third gen iPod touch, but something tells me that isn't going to happen. :(

[Tallest Skil]

802.11n comes very close to saturating the total bandwidth of my connection, whereas G is nowhere near that.

I hope they include an N chip in the third gen iPod touch, but something tells me that isn't going to happen. :(

G is 54 Mbps and N is 540 Mbps, so unless you posted the wrong pictures, G is fine.

[dave4122]

I agree. I really don't think ATT is ready to give up the iphone exclusivity deal with Apple. The iPhone is their crowned jewel.

it will not be up yo at&t anymore. If apple wants to expand and grow sales they will try to make a deal with verizon or other carriers why just sell a million iphones every time they come out with a new model or go to another carrier and get 3x that amount of new eligible customers that have been waiting for the iphone.
If this does happen at&t will lose customers guaranteed.

[iAlexG]

Ooooo maybe I'll get the next gen Iphone then!!!:D

[ThomasJL]

I know that neither myself or numerous friends who love Apple will EVER go to AT&T for ANYTHING

Besides the miserable customer service and bad connections and dropped calls, AT&T cares nothing about ripping people off or protecting their private information.

They were the 1st one to cave to the government to give up any info without a warrant.

Not to mention all the crap they pulled before there was any competition which forced them to change their ways

I just can’t see supporting their greed any further, so I will just wait til the iPhone gets FREED FROM BONDAGE before I get one

Good post. I agree 100%.

[Tallest Skil]

it will not be up yo at&t anymore. If apple wants to expand and grow sales they will try to make a deal with verizon or other carriers why just sell a million iphones every time they come out with a new model or go to another carrier and get 3x that amount of new eligible customers that have been waiting for the iphone.
If this does happen at&t will lose customers guaranteed.

Because Verizon represents 300 million people and AT&T, et. al. represent 7 billion people?

[diamond.g]

Because Verizon represents 300 million people and AT&T, et. al. represent 7 billion people?

What is wrong with having a CDMA2000 version of the phone? What is Apple loosing?

[Thunder82]

What is wrong with having a CDMA2000 version of the phone? What is Apple loosing?

Global Sales?

[diamond.g]

Global Sales?

Who said they have to stop making the GSM version?

[butterfly0fdoom]

Who said they have to stop making the GSM version?

Apple's profit margins?

[dave4122]

I just mean that if apple makes a cdma version of the iphone there will be a lot of new eligible customers? The only thing apple can do for att is just keep supplying new models and hope existing iphone customers keep on upgrading to the new ones.

I think the AT&T exclusivity of the phone will most likely come to an end hopefully by next year. It is all up to Apple, AT&T has no control what so ever.

[butterfly0fdoom]

I just mean that if apple makes a cdma version of the iphone there will be a lot of new eligible customers? The only thing apple can do for att is just keep supplying new models and hope existing iphone customers keep on upgrading to the new ones.

I think the AT&T exclusivity of the phone will most likely come to an end hopefully by next year. It is all up to Apple, AT&T has no control what so ever.

Verizon's LTE rollout will be starting in a year or two, making a non-exclusive iPhone 4G possible (and rather likely). Now, whether or not a Verizon customer would WANT a iPhone 4G is another issue because if Apple doesn't put in CDMA radios, there's no fallback network or voice capability (Verizon stated they would be using LTE for data). That and all the LTE networks need to be built from scratch. So so much for Verizon's "superior network".