PowerBook and iBook Developer Notes

[MacRumors]

Apple has posted detailed developer documentation for the newest PowerBook revisions.

17" G4 PowerBook (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/17inchPowerBookG4/)
15" G4 PowerBook (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/15inchPowerBookG4/index.html)
12" G4 PowerBook (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/12inchPowerBookG4/index.html)
iBook (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/iBookG4/index.html)

[darkwing]

Do these really matter to application developers?

Or is it more for drivers and hardware developers?

[TrenchMouth]

is this in any way shape or form different from how Apple usually releases information on new builds? i dont remember this happening with previous releases, though for some reason i am sure it must have on a certain level.

[neb_greely]

I don't remember hearing that they had changed the battery:

Previous Model
46 watt-hours battery
Current Model
50 watt-hours battery

What does this mean? Longer battery life?

[musicpyrite]

I don't remember hearing that they had changed the battery:

Previous Model
46 watt-hours battery
Current Model
50 watt-hours battery

What does this mean? Longer battery life?

Maby it's because the processor runs at a higher clock rate, so it uses more power.

[The Red Wolf]

Developers need to know the terms Apple uses for all of the standard and upgrade equipment on the PowerBooks (or any computer listed this way for that matter). All of us know what FireWire is, but sometimes is necessary for a developer to know that a machine is equipped with 1394 and what revision of the hardware I/O it is. This came into effect when a device runs into trouble such as the FireWire 800 issue with Hardrive Manufacturers.

[srobert]

I have a "windows" key on my Powerbook's keyboard??? What is that for? Virutal PC?

[denm316]

I thought this was something Apple already did before. It's funny how Airport Extreme is a new feature, the only new part is they dont charge you $99 for it.

[Warphammer]

I don't remember hearing that they had changed the battery:

Previous Model
46 watt-hours battery
Current Model
50 watt-hours battery

What does this mean? Longer battery life?

Yep. Question now, of course, is, will it fit the 1/1.25 15"... It's not a gigantic difference, but it'd be nice...

[Doctor Q]

The New Features page, for the 15" model only, has a nice old/new comparison chart, showing changes such as going from a 2x SuperDrive to a 4x SuperDrive. That's where you can see the battery change mentioned above.

[Biker21098]

Sure would be nice if the 50 watt fit my now slightly old 1.25 PBook. one can only hope. I love my PBook and I've been able to use it for almost all school year, but i sure am jealous of the 4x burner, and 9700 mobility. Is there really much difference between teh 9600 and 9700?

[Lloyd Intalan]

... Is there really much difference between teh 9600 and 9700?

According to this (http://www.barefeats.com/pb10.html), yes.

[john86441]

I reviewed the new features for the iBooks and Powerbooks, and clicked on the Superdrive link. It says the new Superdrive now reads and writes to both DVD-R and DVD-RW disks. Why hasn't Apple published this info?

[Snowy_River]

I have a "windows" key on my Powerbook's keyboard??? What is that for? Virutal PC?

Take a moment to read...

...Other control keys can take on the functions of certain keys on a PC keyboard, for use with PC emulation software...

[spud]

I don't remember hearing that they had changed the battery:

Previous Model
46 watt-hours battery
Current Model
50 watt-hours battery

What does this mean? Longer battery life?
i'm confused...
i think powerbooks run an average of about 60 watts, so with a 50 watt-hour battery a pb would get just barely more than one hour of unpluggedtime.
??

[advocate]

Yep. Question now, of course, is, will it fit the 1/1.25 15"... It's not a gigantic difference, but it'd be nice...

I just did a mock checkout on the Apple Store of a 1.5 GHz 15" alBook with an extra battery. It appeared as a M9325G/A on the resulting order. According to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DD07V/102-8281944-5909714?v=glance) that part number has been available since September 2003. I don't know where Apple got the new battery capacity figure from, but it looks like the identical battery pack as I have in my 1.25 GHz 15" alBook!

I wonder if Apple decided to do some creative number skewing to make the battery look bigger. As you may know, you can play a bit with when you say a battery is fully charged. The 12V lead-acid batteries in cars are totally full when they hit 13.8V, for example. My battery is labelled 10.8V nominal. Apple's new specifications (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/15inchPowerBookG4/1Overview/chapter_2_section_3.html) lists the battery as 12.8V nominal. Just making that change could give them a claim of anywhere up to 54.5 Watt-hours, assuming the previously claimed 46 Watt-hours at 10.8V was accurate

[srobert]

Take a moment to read...

Nay! I like pictures better. Real man don't read instructions.

( :p He sure showed me. My bad. Gotta be more careful. You get eaten alive for showing any sign of weakness/imperfection on these boards. May all those typo-typing fools rest in peace ^_^ Cheers! )

[aldo]

Spud, I think you are wrong.

My AC adapter only outputs a max of 48watts, and considering it charges a 48Wh battery in less than 2 hours (24watts), that means the rest of the computer can run on less than 24 watts - probably closer to 10-15W as transformers don't last long if they run at fully capacity for long.

[Snowy_River]

Nay! I like pictures better. Real man don't read instructions.

( :p He sure showed me. My bad. Gotta be more careful. You get eaten alive for showing any sign of weakness/imperfection on these boards. May all those typo-typing fools rest in peace ^_^ Cheers! )

He he he. No worries, mate. No offense intended. I was only intending to point out that the answer to your question was there...

http://www.ghwphoto.com/smilies/wink.jpg

[topicolo]

Hey, did anyone notice that the ibooks now use a full 512k of 1:1 backside cache? They finally upgraded the G4 to the same revision the powerbooks are using.

[klanda]

There appears to be an error in the iBook note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/iBookG4/1_Overview/chapter_2_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001088-CH205-TPXREF102):

Quoting from the note:

Bluetooth: One configuration comes standard with built-in Bluetooth. In other configurations, Bluetooth is available as a build-to-order option. For more information, see “Bluetooth Technology”.

Best I can figure, no iBook configuration comes with BT standard.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

By the way, anyone have any idea what the 'LL' stands for in the following product description: IBOOK 1.2G4/256/60G/SUPER/AP/LL ?

K

PS. Ordered the above iBook. Faithful dog #2 knocked the Pismo off the table last week, killing the ol' girl.

[innervision]

friend of mine told me that he had read that the new 12" had better sound than the previous generation because they added a third speaker. didn't believe him until i saw the diagram which distinctly shows three speakers.

block diagram for 12" PB (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/12inchPowerBookG4/2_Architecture/chapter_3_section_2.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001085-CH206-TPXREF101)

pretty nifty

[Threnody]

I was just looking at the memory specs, and it looks like standard PC2100 should work. I'm going to be ordering a new iBook G4 in the next couple of days and want to throw another 512MB or RAM in there. How picky is the iBook/Powerbook G4 in taking third party RAM? I'm in Canada, and I've found that the 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook is a lot more expensive than standard PC2100!

Adam

[AndrewMT]

Why isn't the ATI Radeon 9700 operating on a AGP 8X bus like all the rest of the laptops with this processor?

[NatronB]

friend of mine told me that he had read that the new 12" had better sound than the previous generation because they added a third speaker. didn't believe him until i saw the diagram which distinctly shows three speakers.

pretty nifty

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there always been a 3rd speaker on the 12vy?

-N

[drlunanerd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there always been a 3rd speaker on the 12vy?

-N

No correction needed. You're correct

[klanda]

Adam, who is suggesting that there is 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook? A retailer? Which one?

That is totally inconsistent with my understanding of how RAM specs work, and I'm very skeptical.

The iBook requires a 200 pin SO-DIMM, PC2100 at 266MHz DDR SDRAM.

The following are the RAM prices for 512 SO-DIMMS for the iBook I've been given in Toronto:

Apple C$260
North Star Computers C$229 (Shikatronics)
CDW (Formerly MacWarehouse) C$249 (Kingston)
Computer Systems Centre C$239 (Kingston)

On the net, I found Crucial.com selling for US$123 (i.e., C$160 + shipping)

I have heard good things about Crucial RAM on these boards, so depending on what they want for shipping to TO, I might go with them.

Does anybody have better prices than that?

And can anybody confirm/deny that "specially designed for the iBook" is a crock of $h!t?

Ken

I was just looking at the memory specs, and it looks like standard PC2100 should work. I'm going to be ordering a new iBook G4 in the next couple of days and want to throw another 512MB or RAM in there. How picky is the iBook/Powerbook G4 in taking third party RAM? I'm in Canada, and I've found that the 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook is a lot more expensive than standard PC2100!

Adam

[innervision]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there always been a 3rd speaker on the 12vy?

-N

well now that'd be disappointing... :rolleyes: assumed it was always two, and maybe my friend did too. oh well...

[Snowy_River]

I was just looking at the memory specs, and it looks like standard PC2100 should work. I'm going to be ordering a new iBook G4 in the next couple of days and want to throw another 512MB or RAM in there. How picky is the iBook/Powerbook G4 in taking third party RAM? I'm in Canada, and I've found that the 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook is a lot more expensive than standard PC2100!

Adam

Check out Crucial (http://www.crucial.com/) or Other World Computing (http://eshop.macsales.com/). They have excellent memory prices and great service. Though I've never dealt with Crucial myself, I've heard good things about them from others on these boards. OWC, on the other hand, I have dealt with, extensively. They guaranty their memory 100%. I had them send me a replacement before I sent back the dead module once, when I was pressed for time. Their service is absolutely outstanding!

[innervision]

checked the developer notes from the previous 12"PB and you're right, there's always been a third speaker.

[Threnody]

Adam, who is suggesting that there is 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook? A retailer? Which one?

I think it's actually just a mistake on my part. I was looking at Canada RAM (http://www.ordersite.com/canadaram/macram.html) and they have a special section for iBook G4 ram. Just me jumping to conclusions *blush*.

Klanda and Snowy River, thanks for the suggestions. I'll give OWC and Crucial a look.

[Klopsi69]

I know there are a lot of issues floating around here, but I'd be really curious to know if someone could figure out the battery situation.

i.e. Are these newer batteries likely to give rev B (which i bought exactly nine days before the new ones came out from a store..:( )s longer life? Or is apple just fiddling numbers as suggested earlier?

(ps. 12inch rev b PB)

[dieselg4]

I was just looking at the memory specs, and it looks like standard PC2100 should work. I'm going to be ordering a new iBook G4 in the next couple of days and want to throw another 512MB or RAM in there. How picky is the iBook/Powerbook G4 in taking third party RAM? I'm in Canada, and I've found that the 3rd party RAM made especially for the iBook is a lot more expensive than standard PC2100!

Adam
I've bought ghetto ram from all kinds of places and never had problems in the past. Even bought some on eBay, though now used ram on eBay costs just as much if not more than new!

One place i have never bought ram is the Apple store.

[dieselg4]

I know there are a lot of issues floating around here, but I'd be really curious to know if someone could figure out the battery situation.

i.e. Are these newer batteries likely to give rev B (which i bought exactly nine days before the new ones came out from a store..:( )s longer life? Or is apple just fiddling numbers as suggested earlier?

(ps. 12inch rev b PB)

Assuming they're not fiddling numbers, the increase should be proportional to the increase in operatin time. Example:
46 kWh Battery @ 2 hours or 2.61 min. per kWh
50kWh-46kWh = 4 kWh x 2.61 min = 10.43 min additional use time.

[atari1356]

I don't see any information there stating that Apple is taking advantage of the new Motorola 7447a processors power scaling features... you'd think if they were using it, that would be a feature they'd mention.

[DHagan4755]

Interesting part of the "notes:"

If the 15-inch PowerBook G4 detects a system temperature that is high, due to high ambient temperatures or other factors, it will automatically force the system to reduce the speed regardless of the selected setting.

[Penman]

Is this a mistake? I hope so or I'll change my order.... The 17" audio is billed as 16 bit audio capable only.

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 16-bit samples at a 44.1 kHz sample rate."

Compared to for the 15"

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 44.1 kHz 24-bit samples."

and one additional input is listed:

"sound signals from the communication (modem) slot"

The headphone output on the 17"

"signal-to-noise (SNR) 90 dB unweighted (typical)"

On the 15"

"signal to noise ratio (SNR) greater than 100 dB A-weighted"

Is this true? Totally different audio capabilities? Why should the 17" buyer get lower specs if so?

[Xacttech]

I know there are a lot of issues floating around here, but I'd be really curious to know if someone could figure out the battery situation.

i.e. Are these newer batteries likely to give rev B (which i bought exactly nine days before the new ones came out from a store..:( )s longer life? Or is apple just fiddling numbers as suggested earlier?

(ps. 12inch rev b PB)

If you bought it from the apple store I believe you are entitled to an exchange... If you bought it used or from an alternate retailer I have no idea :)

[aswitcher]

Is this a mistake? I hope so or I'll change my order.... The 17" audio is billed as 16 bit audio capable only.

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 16-bit samples at a 44.1 kHz sample rate."

Compared to for the 15"

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 44.1 kHz 24-bit samples."

and one additional input is listed:

"sound signals from the communication (modem) slot"

The headphone output on the 17"

"signal-to-noise (SNR) 90 dB unweighted (typical)"

On the 15"

"signal to noise ratio (SNR) greater than 100 dB A-weighted"

Is this true? Totally different audio capabilities? Why should the 17" buyer get lower specs if so?


Seems pretty odd.

[CrackedButter]

I don't see anything about the 12" being able to be put to sleep with the battery removed and unplugged from the mains and stay asleep for 3 mins while a new battery is being inserted, the bigger PB have this but i don't know if the 12" has?

Anybody know?

[eSnow]

Why isn't the ATI Radeon 9700 operating on a AGP 8X bus like all the rest of the laptops with this processor?

Basically, because this revision uses only drop-in, pin-compatible new CPUs and graphics chips. Apple sees them as a last revision and has shifted manpower to developing the PowerBook G5. So they cut corners here and did not redesign the AGP bus interface.

Not that'll hurt very much, the 7447A is bandwidth-impaired anyways. Unless you hook the Book to a large display (or want to play games), the 9700 is fast on a 4x AGP as well. 4x AGP is fine, no one really needs more speed :p

[data1ore]

oh boy this developer page is a treasure box of information. I just placed an order for my 15.2" maxxed out PB...the site can keep me drooling as I await the shipment.

:)

[skinEman23]

I just bought my first mac (a 12" powerbook) and it has a dead (glowing blue) pixel. I read about apple's policy on dead pixels :( and am deciding whether to return the powerbook. Does anyone know any ways I could get the glowing pixel to function again? I heard of a "massage" method but i'm not sure what this entails. Thanks!

[SFNE Freak]

I just bought my first mac (a 12" powerbook) and it has a dead (glowing blue) pixel. I read about apple's policy on dead pixels :( and am deciding whether to return the powerbook. Does anyone know any ways I could get the glowing pixel to function again? I heard of a "massage" method but i'm not sure what this entails. Thanks!
Gently rub the pixel in a circular motion until (hopefully) the pixel starts functioning.

[mvc]

Gently rub the pixel in a circular motion until (hopefully) the pixel starts functioning.

Oh and don't use herbal aromatherapy oils on it. :p

[WM.]

I don't see any information there stating that Apple is taking advantage of the new Motorola 7447a processors power scaling features... you'd think if they were using it, that would be a feature they'd mention.
It's in there, in the System Software section of the Features section (IIRC--I'm too lazy to check). I believe the 7447 (and thus the previous PB rev) had this feature as well, so it's not new.

Interestingly, it looks like this rev actually has one fewer power-saving feature than the previous one: they say they've disabled memory bus slewing, which (again IIRC) was causing problems for some RAM, namely Crucial's 1 GB modules.

FWIW
WM

[WM.]

Is this a mistake? I hope so or I'll change my order.... The 17" audio is billed as 16 bit audio capable only.

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 16-bit samples at a 44.1 kHz sample rate."

Compared to for the 15"

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 44.1 kHz 24-bit samples."

and one additional input is listed:

"sound signals from the communication (modem) slot"

The headphone output on the 17"

"signal-to-noise (SNR) 90 dB unweighted (typical)"

On the 15"

"signal to noise ratio (SNR) greater than 100 dB A-weighted"

Is this true? Totally different audio capabilities? Why should the 17" buyer get lower specs if so?
It seems to be pretty random whether Apple says 16-bit or 24-bit. I seem to remember seeing two different specs in two different parts of the dev note for the same product...maybe.

The (supposedly) different bit depths are the reason for the different SNR specs. 90 dB is (close to) the maximum possible SNR for 16-bit samples, I believe, whereas the maximum for 24-bit is quite a bit more. Either way, any crappy sound you get out of (or into) your laptop is going to be the result of lameness in the analog circuitry and the converters MUCH more than in the purely digital parts. And there are lame 24-bit converters just as much as there are lame 16-bit converters.

If this stuff is really important to you, get a Mobile I/O or MOTU or whatever FireWire interface and be done with it. Nobody uses their computer's built-in audio circuitry for anything for which they need 24 bits.

</slight rant>

WM

[Penman]

It seems to be pretty random whether Apple says 16-bit or 24-bit. I seem to remember seeing two different specs in two different parts of the dev note for the same product...maybe.

The (supposedly) different bit depths are the reason for the different SNR specs. 90 dB is (close to) the maximum possible SNR for 16-bit samples, I believe, whereas the maximum for 24-bit is quite a bit more. Either way, any crappy sound you get out of (or into) your laptop is going to be the result of lameness in the analog circuitry and the converters MUCH more than in the purely digital parts. And there are lame 24-bit converters just as much as there are lame 16-bit converters.

If this stuff is really important to you, get a Mobile I/O or MOTU or whatever FireWire interface and be done with it. Nobody uses their computer's built-in audio circuitry for anything for which they need 24 bits.

</slight rant>

WM

The max theoretical for 24 bit is close to 110 db. I have worked in pro audio and see not reason for the confusion on Apple's part. They'd never make a mistake like that with a Graphics card.

Though the documents also list the 17" as accessing memory at 333MHz in a table and then beneath it write it's happening at 167MHz. I hope the quality control on the machines is better than the QC on the paperwork.

The 'get an upgrade' rant isn't valid (do you work for Apple?). It's a $2700 notebook. It should have everything that every other model does and more. It shold have the higest spec they're capable of producing. Soundblaster sell $100 cards with 24/96 audio. Why not stick one in a PB? Many core users are musicians and DJ's and DVD Audio requires it.

If and when Apple give a PB really first rate audio they'll open up a new pro-market. It's so much cheaper than graphics upgrades too.

Built in Midi i/o, an mLan port and a really clean headphone/line out would do it. About $70 in parts that don't need to be upgraded. The same midi ports have been in use for almost 20 years.

[benixau]

Though the documents also list the 17" as accessing memory at 333MHz in a table and then beneath it write it's happening at 167MHz. I hope the quality control on the machines is better than the QC on the paperwork.

DDR

166.666666... = 167
167 * 2 = 333.333333
333.333333 = 333

happy? why do you think DDR 333 RAM is running at 167. DDR transmits on the rising and falling edge of the signal and therefore acts as if the speed has been doubled.

[Penman]

DDR

166.666666... = 167
167 * 2 = 333.333333
333.333333 = 333

happy? why do you think DDR 333 RAM is running at 167. DDR transmits on the rising and falling edge of the signal and therefore acts as if the speed has been doubled.

Thank benixau but why do Apple claim the 15 access memory at 167, the 17 at 333 and then - a line later - that the 17 access at 167.

I was making a point about how poorly the documentation's been put together. I wasn't saying I didn't understand the math.

[avkills]

The FSB on the G4 can't do DDR, but the system controller can. I would not touch these things unless I was desperate for a machine.

-mark

[miltontong]

from the 12" pb developer notes:
"To lower power consumption and heat generation, the 12-inch PowerBook G4 incorporates an automatic power management technique called dynamic frequency switching (DFS). DFS is designed to run at high processor speed and voltage when the demand on the processor is high, and to run at low processor speed and voltage when the demand on the processor is low. Switching between different processor speeds and voltages is achieved by a transition that operates seamlessly to the user and should not impact system or application performance."

"When DFS is enabled, the processor dynamically adjusts its speed based on the current needs of the system. The processor speed will switch between 1333 MHz and 667 MHz."

is anyone else a little disappointed that the 7447a processor's dynamic frequency switching only switches between two different speeds? i thought they would have been able to make it a little more varied.

[joshbuddy]

Also I would check out pccanada.com (http://pccanada.com/) and kingstoncomputerplanet.com (http://kingstoncomputerplanet.com/). Both have relatively cheap ram prices are easy stores to deal with. In reailty, a stroll down College St is just as cost effective, as I noticed today, 512 was going for $150.

*j*

I think it's actually just a mistake on my part. I was looking at Canada RAM (http://www.ordersite.com/canadaram/macram.html) and they have a special section for iBook G4 ram. Just me jumping to conclusions *blush*.

Klanda and Snowy River, thanks for the suggestions. I'll give OWC and Crucial a look.

[Zaty]

I don't see anything about the 12" being able to be put to sleep with the battery removed and unplugged from the mains and stay asleep for 3 mins while a new battery is being inserted, the bigger PB have this but i don't know if the 12" has?

Anybody know?

Revs. A&B don't have a PRAM battery to power the system while the main battery is being exchanged. Unless the changed that, which I doubt, Rev. Cs don't have it either.

[Snowy_River]

I just bought my first mac (a 12" powerbook) and it has a dead (glowing blue) pixel. I read about apple's policy on dead pixels :( and am deciding whether to return the powerbook. Does anyone know any ways I could get the glowing pixel to function again? I heard of a "massage" method but i'm not sure what this entails. Thanks!

Gently rub the pixel in a circular motion until (hopefully) the pixel starts functioning.

You can also "massage" or squeeze the framed edges of the screen straight to the sides and directly above and below the dead pixel. I had such a pixel on my old PB3400 that always glowed red. I found that gently squeezing the frame either directly to the right or directly above it could get the pixel to behave properly. Oh, it still sometimes gets stuck on red, but usually all I have to do is squeeze the frame in one of these spots or rub the screen a bit. Works like a charm...

[Snowy_River]

from the 12" pb developer notes:
"To lower power consumption and heat generation, the 12-inch PowerBook G4 incorporates an automatic power management technique called dynamic frequency switching (DFS). DFS is designed to run at high processor speed and voltage when the demand on the processor is high, and to run at low processor speed and voltage when the demand on the processor is low. Switching between different processor speeds and voltages is achieved by a transition that operates seamlessly to the user and should not impact system or application performance."

"When DFS is enabled, the processor dynamically adjusts its speed based on the current needs of the system. The processor speed will switch between 1333 MHz and 667 MHz."

is anyone else a little disappointed that the 7447a processor's dynamic frequency switching only switches between two different speeds? i thought they would have been able to make it a little more varied.

Uh... given the way that's worded, I'd read it as adjusting to any speed between 1.33GHz and 667MHz, i.e. if the demand called for it, it would set itself at 933MHz, or 1.25GHz. However, it couldn't set itself at 500MHz, or 1.42GHz. I think that you get the picture...

[thehypercube]

Is this a mistake? I hope so or I'll change my order.... The 17" audio is billed as 16 bit audio capable only.

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 16-bit samples at a 44.1 kHz sample rate."

Compared to for the 15"

"The sound circuitry handles audio data as 44.1 kHz 24-bit samples."

and one additional input is listed:

"sound signals from the communication (modem) slot"

The headphone output on the 17"

"signal-to-noise (SNR) 90 dB unweighted (typical)"

On the 15"

"signal to noise ratio (SNR) greater than 100 dB A-weighted"

Is this true? Totally different audio capabilities? Why should the 17" buyer get lower specs if so?

this doesn't make sense. dvd audio is encoded at 24 bits. if you can play dvds on the 17", then it seems it can handle 24 bit audio.

regardless, any music you listen to is likely to come from a 16 bit cd. handling audio as 24 bits is not going to change the sound quality of something that came from a 16 bit source. if you are concerned because you are recording your own music, your interface and software would take care of the audio bit rate.

[Penman]

this doesn't make sense. dvd audio is encoded at 24 bits. if you can play dvds on the 17", then it seems it can handle 24 bit audio.

regardless, any music you listen to is likely to come from a 16 bit cd. handling audio as 24 bits is not going to change the sound quality of something that came from a 16 bit source. if you are concerned because you are recording your own music, your interface and software would take care of the audio bit rate.

The thing is 17" can't play DVD Audio. They can play the sound on DVD's but not the DVD audio format itself. Given the 15" specs on this paperwork the 15"s can't play DVD audio either. It's very strange.

[danman]

Maby it's because the processor runs at a higher clock rate, so it uses more power.

Does this mean I could get one of the new batteries and add a little bit of extra battery life to my 1.25Ghz model?

the order of 7% increase in power is not alot (circa 10-15 mins more).

Why don't apple provide higher Watt-Hour batteries as accessories, if its possible to fit more capacity in the same battery case?

[Maxx Power]

I've noticed this since the last revision of the Al-books. And some of you noticed that as well. The 12 inch and the 17 inch gets an 16bit 44Khz audio subsystem, and everything is down/up sampled to that spec when it is outputted. The 15 incher however, features 24bit resolution, and consequencly, a much much higher signal to noise ratio (A-weighted) as compared to the other two units, is it because the 15 inch was developed later and used a different DAC as compared to the other two older units ?

-Any guesses ?

[WM.]

The thing is 17" can't play DVD Audio. They can play the sound on DVD's but not the DVD audio format itself. Given the 15" specs on this paperwork the 15"s can't play DVD audio either. It's very strange.
Can any (equivalently-priced) laptops play DVD-Audio?

[Penman]

Can any (equivalently-priced) laptops play DVD-Audio?

DVD Audio's part of the DVD standard. Any computer with a DVD player and 24/96 convertors should be able to. I know most of the current audio chips handle this. My guess is yes. Even if not though - why not Apple?

The real point it for audio. With a 24 bit signal path, as someone mentioned earlier, you have more headroom and less noise. To some of us audio's really important.

Apple should think about it - that's why we have THX, dts and the rest. In tests people always choose killer sound and mediocre visuals over killer visuals and mediocre sound. PC notebooks now ship with primitive subwoofers. With the success of iTunes and iPods being used by DJ's (pitch shifting in software would be great there - controlable via the wheel) good notebook sound seems like a great idea to me.

[invaLPsion]

Why isn't the ATI Radeon 9700 operating on a AGP 8X bus like all the rest of the laptops with this processor?

Because APPLE is CHEAP. They even underclocked the GPU!

[kinema]

Because APPLE is CHEAP. They even underclocked the GPU!

They didn't underclock the GPU. They are simply running it on a slower bus. The clock rate for the GPU and the speed of the bus are two different things.

Even if they did underclock it how would that be being cheap? Apple would be paing the same price for the part regardless of what the clocked it at.

[medusa]

The third speaker already existed in older Albooks. I own a 12' AlBook and It has the speaker. It's a medium frequencies enhancer.

[WM.]

DVD Audio's part of the DVD standard. Any computer with a DVD player and 24/96 convertors should be able to.
But can they, right now? Is the firmware/software there?
I know most of the current audio chips handle this. My guess is yes. Even if not though - why not Apple?
Maybe the drive doesn't support it? Apple uses standard optical drives, you know. (For example, the 2x slot-load SuperDrive was a Matsush.ita UJ-816; I don't think we know what the 4x one is yet.) If the drive is the limiting factor, Apple is relying on a third party to implement new features.

WM

[kbonnel]

it is not the drive, but the ability of the sound hardware to decode DVD-A. For example, my SBLive card cannot decode it, but my Audigy2 can.

But can they, right now? Is the firmware/software there?

Maybe the drive doesn't support it? Apple uses standard optical drives, you know. (For example, the 2x slot-load SuperDrive was a Matsush.ita UJ-816; I don't think we know what the 4x one is yet.) If the drive is the limiting factor, Apple is relying on a third party to implement new features.

WM

[aafuss1]

it is not the drive, but the ability of the sound hardware to decode DVD-A. For example, my SBLive card cannot decode it, but my Audigy2 can.
On my PC, my integrated AC97 is good for playing DVD-Audio discs, but the new Powerbooks may not be able to decode DVD-A.

[WM.]

OK, I wasn't aware that current PCs could play DVD-Audio. I've never even seen a DVD-A disc!

I still think it's kind of silly to think that one would notice the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/44.1 or 24/48 coming out of a mainstream laptop's analog output (or into its input). We'll probably see optical audio I/O on a PowerBook in the near future, and then better formats will be worth it, IMHO.

Of course, you can always get better quality by using a nice USB or FireWire (or PCI via an expansion chassis) interface. I think you would notice the difference between 16 and 24 bits with Pro Tools HD hardware, for example.

WM

[chabig]

given the way that's worded, I'd read it as adjusting to any speed between 1.33GHz and 667MHz, i.e. if the demand called for it, it would set itself at 933MHz, or 1.25GHz. However, it couldn't set itself at 500MHz, or 1.42GHz. I think that you get the picture...

No. It means exactly what it says...that the processor can switch between two speeds--full speed or half speed. From the Motorola 7447A hardware specifications (http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7447AEC.pdf) we find this...

"A new dynamic frequency switching (DFS) feature allows processor core frequency to be halved through software to reduce power consumption."

Chris

[Baris]

Hi guys, I just purchased a 17" powerbook on the 13/4 for $5500AUD, apple released the new pb only days later for $1000AUD cheaper. Anyhow, I am in the process of selling my current powerbook and hopefully getting a new one in the future.
I plan to get the next update of PB, I don't want to get stung again though. So does anybody know if there is a planned release of a G5 anytime soon? Also what differences would there be between a G5 and a G4 powerbook, apart from the obvious of course.
I can't really make up my mind on whether I should wait for the G5 powerbooks, does anybody have any information.. even speculations on the release of these things, for example what speed will they be running at? Are the screens going to have higher resolutions?? I hope so.. I think people at apple might be blind judging by the size of things.
Also is it a bad idea to get the first release of a new CPU family? You know.. kinda like a beta test program.

[aswitcher]

Hi guys, I just purchased a 17" powerbook on the 13/4 for $5500AUD, apple released the new pb only days later for $1000AUD cheaper. Anyhow, I am in the process of selling my current powerbook and hopefully getting a new one in the future.
I plan to get the next update of PB, I don't want to get stung again though. So does anybody know if there is a planned release of a G5 anytime soon? Also what differences would there be between a G5 and a G4 powerbook, apart from the obvious of course.
I can't really make up my mind on whether I should wait for the G5 powerbooks, does anybody have any information.. even speculations on the release of these things, for example what speed will they be running at? Are the screens going to have higher resolutions?? I hope so.. I think people at apple might be blind judging by the size of things.
Also is it a bad idea to get the first release of a new CPU family? You know.. kinda like a beta test program.

Have you hassled Apple Australia for a discount since it happened in a few days after you got your new PB?

G5? ??? July? Jan 05? July 05?

First rev may have issues...