New iMac: Nvidia GeoForce GT 130 -or- ATi Radeon HD 4850?

[BG-Mac]

Just as the title states I'm ordering a new 24" 3.06 iMac. I'm well aware of all of the issues with the 4850, but just curious if it's still worth upgrade. The $50 doesn't matter to me as the machine is $2K+. I'll be doing extensive work in Adobe CS4 Photoshop, inDesign, and Dreamweaver along with some light gaming (command and conquer games are my fave :D). Let me know your opinions, thanks!

[Jack Flash]

4850

[ineusch]

4850 :)

[Styxie]

4850

[Macole]

If you want it for work ,u don't want any problems and u want it now get the GT130 ..u'll be fine and trouble free.

If u don't care to hassle with a problematic 4850 and don't mind wait for the fix then go for it..

[BG-Mac]

Wow. Lot's of love for the 4850 even with the issues! Does anyone prefer the 130? :D

[Macole]

Wow. Lot's of love for the 4850 even with the issues! Does anyone prefer the 130? :D

They all choose the Ati 4850 because of the small difference in price and the believe that it will be a much much better card especially for games .

I'm also very curious to see some real life benchmarks ,both in OSX and Windows .

[Styxie]

A few benchmarks have pointed out that the 4850 is in fact faster than the GT130 (there's a thread somewhere, search if you want confirmation). Also, if you already plan on spending 2000 dollars on a computer, why not spend 50 dollars more for a better GPU?

[J&JPolangin]

They all choose the Ati 4850 because of the small difference in price and the believe that it will be a much much better card especially for games .

I'm also very curious to see some real life benchmarks ,both in OSX and Windows .

...if the issues with freezing get worked out...

[Jack Flash]

...if the issues with freezing get worked out...

And they will.

The 4850 is MUCH more capable than the GT 130 and you will be very pleased you spent an additional $50 on it.

[itommyboy]

From where I sit - behind a 24" 3.06 with the GT 130 - things look real good. I love this machine - it laughs at anything and everything I throw at it (some photoshop, itunes, imovie, iphoto, gaming titles such as WoW, Spore, Fable, COD etc) and I have not turned it off once since I bought it first week of release.

You people putting up with all of these ati issues and STILL fanboy'ing the 4850 baffle me. You waited forever for a new iMac - and now you got it and IT DOES NOT WORK! I would be livid if I was any of the many 4850 customers out there with machines that freeze - this much I know.

If you need a new iMac and need it now and want it to work get the GT 130 unit. It will more than handle what you need it to. If you can wait - I'd say wait until end of Q4 when most likely we'll see quad core iMacs with better gpu's in them anyway. Or at least tried and true cards that are tweaked and working as intended.

As for buying a unit with a card that is known faulty (ok probably not the card but something ain't kosher in the town of Denmark we know this much whether it's a driver or hardware issue remains to be seen) and has issues before it's even shipped....well that's just silly imho.

[polya80]

GT130 is actually a variant of GeForce 9800M which is a very decent chipset and many bench test that I have seen people post, shows that ATI4850 is just marginally better if any at all.

So do you want to suffer through random freeze that the current imac ATI 4850 is experiencing without no estimate time of fixing for some marginal graphics benefits? I for sure know that I would not be happy if I have a new $2000 imac :apple: that just freezes multiple times everyday.

Just my 2ct.

[BG-Mac]

Any more opinions? Thanks for the help everyone!

[pmb333]

Any more opinions? Thanks for the help everyone!

If you hadn't mentioned gaming, even you said light, I would have said for sure go with the GT130 and avoid the problems. The 4850 benchmarks by barefeats, though show (what I think are significant) improvements over the GT130, ~50% FPS. Makes it a tough call. For my part, I decided to go with the 4850. I figure, if I get a unit with a problem, Applecare should keep taking care of it until it's right.

My opinion. Take it for what you paid for it.

pmb

[jmpage2]

Any more opinions? Thanks for the help everyone!

The 4850 benches 60% faster than the GT130 in X-Plane and in COD4. I don't call that fanboyism, I call that facts. In fact the 4850 equipped 2.93ghz iMac performed almost as well in COD4 as the $3000 Mac Pro with Radeon 4870 graphics card.

Yes, there are freezing issues that need to get ironed out, but $50 for a 60% performance increase in demanding games? Sign me up for that!

[BG-Mac]

Alright guys thanks again for the advice. I'm making my decision today and am going to have my order in in the next couple hours. After running the numbers I can order the GT 130 from Amazon an have it tomorrow for $150 less than the 4850 from Apple is going to cost me. If I ordered it from Apple it will ship in 5-7 days. So, I ask one more time, is the 4850 worth $150 and the wait? I'm leaning towards the 4850 not because I'll see a huge benefit now, but down the road when Snow Leopard is released, etc. But the $150 and having it tomorrow is tempting.. :D:apple:

[Jack Flash]

Alright guys thanks again for the advice. I'm making my decision today and am going to have my order in in the next couple hours. After running the numbers I can order the GT 130 from Amazon an have it tomorrow for $150 less than the 4850 from Apple is going to cost me. If I ordered it from Apple it will ship in 5-7 days. So, I ask one more time, is the 4850 worth $150 and the wait? I'm leaning towards the 4850 not because I'll see a huge benefit now, but down the road when Snow Leopard is released, etc. But the $150 and having it tomorrow is tempting.. :D:apple:

The 4850 is substantially better than the GT 130. You'll have to decide if it's worth it.

[Sambo110]

Just wait, Apple will release a patch. It is new, there would be chance for error, and I am sure not many people actually get the problem out of all the people that got the 4850.

[BG-Mac]

Done and done. Thanks guys. Ordering the 4850 as I'm writing this!

[gjw4u]

OP, nice iMac you ordered with the ATI HD 4850. Im still waitnig / debating on whether to go for the Nvidia GT 130 or the ATI HD 4850 as my new Apple.

[sotov]

Done and done. Thanks guys. Ordering the 4850 as I'm writing this!

I just hope you read the 4850 freezing threads first. It baffles me how someone would a buy a $2500 computer knowing these problems and not waiting until they are solved. The poll on this forum currently is at a 50% failure rate.

[Jack Flash]

I just hope you read the 4850 freezing threads first. It baffles me how someone would a buy a $2500 computer knowing these problems and not waiting until they are solved. The poll on this forum currently is at a 50% failure rate.
It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

[rgarjr]

It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

Yeah it sure doesn't make sense, huh.

[Hellhammer]

It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

Ermmhhhh.... 60%? It's more like 6%.

[Tom Dahl]

The poll on this forum currently is at a 50% failure rate.
I believe you that the poll on this forum indicates a 50% failure rate, but I cannot believe that the true global failure rate is anywhere close to 50%. If it were, most news outlets in the world would be talking about how Apple is doomed etc.

[Tom Dahl]

Ermmhhhh.... 60%? It's more like 6%.
If you check the Benchmarks thread (which is admittedly still skimpy in hard data) some of the reported improvements are in the tens of percentage points.

[sotov]

It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

There is no doubt the 4850 is the faster card. You are introducing the $50 difference as the "sacrifice" one would make in choosing the ATI card. The $50 is negligable and completely irrelevant. As I wrote in my post the issue is the freezing computers.

In my post I wrote the mistake in ordering a 4850 is "not waiting until they [the freezing problems] are solved." If it's just a software issue as you say, well then the prudent decision is to wait until there is just a software fix.

I have no interest in a computer that will pump out more fps but is prone to crashing. I am not willing to waste time losing work.

[iMac4850User]

From where I sit, behind a brand new and totally unusable ATI Radeon HD 4850 iMac, you should get the nVidia Geforce 9800 one (I refuse to call it a GT 130 because it's really a 9800m). I haven't gotten ANY work done on this dang thing because it locks up constantly. I could have and should have gotten the nVidia Geforce 9800 one more than a month ago and would have ended up dramatically more productive.

If you want to screw around, take your chances and wait god knows how long for Apple to fix the problems, go ahead and get the ATI Radeon HD 4850.

If you want to actually get work done, get the nVidia Gefore 9800.

[gmjones2001]

From where I sit - behind a 24" 3.06 with the GT 130 - things look real good. I love this machine - it laughs at anything and everything I throw at it (some photoshop, itunes, imovie, iphoto, gaming titles such as WoW, Spore, Fable, COD etc) and I have not turned it off once since I bought it first week of release.

You people putting up with all of these ati issues and STILL fanboy'ing the 4850 baffle me. You waited forever for a new iMac - and now you got it and IT DOES NOT WORK! I would be livid if I was any of the many 4850 customers out there with machines that freeze - this much I know.

If you need a new iMac and need it now and want it to work get the GT 130 unit. It will more than handle what you need it to. If you can wait - I'd say wait until end of Q4 when most likely we'll see quad core iMacs with better gpu's in them anyway. Or at least tried and true cards that are tweaked and working as intended.

As for buying a unit with a card that is known faulty (ok probably not the card but something ain't kosher in the town of Denmark we know this much whether it's a driver or hardware issue remains to be seen) and has issues before it's even shipped....well that's just silly imho.

My thoughts exactly!

I couldn't be happier with my new iMac because it is in my home NOW and it works without any issues!

60fps on Wow and Guild Wars, which is the extent of my gaming.

Obviously boot camped (XP, GW doesn't have an OS X client)

Logic Express, movies, iTunes, etc....

But the best part for me is my 'working from home' experience has just improved dramatically!

Big screen, lots of open windows, email, shell, browser...it's awesome! Now working from home is a joy and as productive as being in the office. My Mac Book Pro was ok..but nothing compared to this.

Go 4850 fanboys!

lol.

PS - J/K, hope you all get it worked out and come to enjoy your new systems as much as us who had not the insight y'all did and chose a lesser video card. lol.

[gmjones2001]

It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

A brick is a brick.

I don't care if you show me hard data that proves 1,000,000,000,000,000% better 3D performance!!!!

iBrick, complete with the new incredibly awesome, you're STOOPID if you don't pay the $50 upgcharge ATI 4850 video card.

Buwahahaha!

Honestly, I wrestled with this issue myself....just glad I'm not a patient guy.

Besides, in the time frame it will take Apple to fix it..I may want to buy another iMac for myself so I can give this one to my child or my wife.

Either way I win.

[jmpage2]

A brick is a brick.

I don't care if you show me hard data that proves 1,000,000,000,000,000% better 3D performance!!!!

iBrick, complete with the new incredibly awesome, you're STOOPID if you don't pay the $50 upgcharge ATI 4850 video card.

Buwahahaha!

Honestly, I wrestled with this issue myself....just glad I'm not a patient guy.

Besides, in the time frame it will take Apple to fix it..I may want to buy another iMac for myself so I can give this one to my child or my wife.

Either way I win.

What you are saying assumes;

1. Every 4850 has these problems.

2. Apple won't be able to fix it in a reasonable amount of time.

I got my 4850 equipped 2.93ghz iMac today and in the first day of use I haven't had a single freeze up and I've been wailing on this thing. Time will tell, but that $50 so far seems like money very well spent to me.

[jmpage2]

Ermmhhhh.... 60%? It's more like 6%.

The only test that saw the 6% improvement was the OpenGL test. I would recommend that you read the 4850 benchmarks thread as in actual gaming tests, the 4850 has been showing 40-60% faster in the same games compared to the GT130.

[destroyboredom]

Judging from your signature I would say spend the extra $50 on the ATI 4850. You have a 17" Macbook Pro laptop to hold you over while Apple gets this lock up issue sorted out.

I made the mistake of not upgrading my video card on my last machine. Despite the current problems I wasn't about to do that again, so I ordered a 2.93 w/ 4850 last Wed. while well aware of the issues.

[Macole]

The only I would recommend that you read the 4850 benchmarks thread as in actual gaming tests, the 4850 has been showing 40-60% faster in the same games compared to the GT130.

Link pls ?

I don't see so big difference in the desktop version of 4850 versus 8800gt: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1322023

[destroyboredom]

Link pls ?

I don't see so big difference in the desktop version of 4850 versus 8800gt: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1322023

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=686292

[Macole]

You mean these results ..?

"For more perspective on CoD4.....

64 fps = 2.93 Mac Pro (4-core and 8-core) with 4870
61 fps = 2.93 iMac with 4850
45 fps = 2.93 Mac Pro (4-core and 8-core) with 8800 GT (beta 10.5.7 drivers)
38 fps = 3.06 iMac with 130 GT
23 fps = 2.93 Mac Pro (4-core and 8-core) with 120 GT"


From what we see from this test,4850 is well worth it, especially for the gamers and of course the small difference in money .

But why the difference between desktop version of 485 and 8800gt are not so big ? :confused:

[gmjones2001]

What you are saying assumes;

1. Every 4850 has these problems.

2. Apple won't be able to fix it in a reasonable amount of time.

I got my 4850 equipped 2.93ghz iMac today and in the first day of use I haven't had a single freeze up and I've been wailing on this thing. Time will tell, but that $50 so far seems like money very well spent to me.

1. 50% from this forum, though others assume it's not that bad. Who knows? Too high a risk for me.

2. According to history the last time Apple had a very similar problem it took 6 months. Again, too long for me.

YMMV, FWIW, etc, etc.

To each his own.

I've waited 3 years to buy my first Apple computer. Had I gone with the 4850 and been one of the unlucky half I would have been livid and likely NEVER purchased another Apple product for personal use again. That's just me though.

[GamaFu]

1. 50% from this forum, though others assume it's not that bad. Who knows? Too high a risk for me.


If you're going to go by that number, I believe it will be higher than it is now since for one I voted for not freezing but it eventually did one day after. Many of us might not see the problem at first, but it hit us at some point. However, you literally assume that extremely small amount of data can represent all. It doesn't make sense to me, but it does have problem, there's no doubt about it.


2. According to history the last time Apple had a very similar problem it took 6 months. Again, too long for me.

I've waited 3 years to buy my first Apple computer. Had I gone with the 4850 and been one of the unlucky half I would have been livid and likely NEVER purchased another Apple product for personal use again. That's just me though.

I'd suggest not getting the 4850. Get the Nvidia GT 120 or 130 instead. My iMac is also my first Apple computer, I've been waiting for more than three years and finally pulled the trigger to order it last month. So far, it freezes 10 times in 5 days, basically crashed more often than the total amount of crashes I got on my PC last year.

However, everyone has different risk bearing level, some will more likely to take the risk, some won't. When making sense of others' opinions, keep in mind that people who "already" spent money on it will likely wish to justify their purchase, want to believe they did the right choice. My point is that it's good that people are satisfied with their iMacs with Ati 4850 or not.

I still haven't decided what I am going to do with it, to return it or wait for update. When it works, it's great, but the random freezes just annoy me a lot. I plan on doing lots of programming on it, if the issue won't be resolved any time soon then it's going to be very problematic. A big project can be hard to manage already, crashing at some point before I get the chance to save the work which I spent few hours on is something I don't even want to imagine. :(

[bajee]

This actually baffles me too, on why is apple advertising the iMac line as a gaming machine?

If I were the ad campaign head for Microsoft, I'll use the argument that PCs are far better gaming machine than apple can be.

you can buy a 500$ gaming PC, that runs 200% faster than the 3K machine you are buying lol.

GUYS, if you want to play games then go for a PC, it'll be way cheaper, or better yet, buy a console, like playstation 3 or xbox 360 - (xbox 360 are about what? 199$?)

I very much agree with sotov and the others, if you want a worry free iMac machine and will use it for REAL work, then go for the gt130 option, its not worth of a hassle get a 3k machine which you can't use because it freezes every 20 minutes lol. Now if you want to play games with it, get an xbox 360 and use your iMac screen if you really want to use your iMac with games hehehe :D

[itommyboy]

It's a software issue.

It baffles me to know someone would buy a $2,450 computer knowing that for $50 more they could have 60% better 3D performance.

While you pined and whined for your atImac the last almost 2 months I've been enjoying the best iMac Apple ever made (up until the release of the 4850 machines but gees not so sure we can call that one the "best" yet since they don't all work atm). Many of us needed new computers and got what was best and available thus the GT 130. $50 dollars cheaper, ready and available and more importantly working.

I won't lie - I wanted the 4850. Hell I was going to buy both this unit and then once the 4850 dropped make this my office computer and use the 4850 as my all in one home machine. But not now. Not with all these issues. Not with the amount of time it took to not only address the eerily similar 2007 issues let alone fix them.

But hey good luck sending your computer in for checks and false repairs and haggling with returns and tech support calls until you finally get a machine that works. Indeed sounds like a good deal to pay $50 more for all that hassle. By the time this all gets sorted out there will be quad core iMacs around the corner that are bigger better faster and cheaper...and hopefully working. Yeah I think us GT 130 owners are sitting pretty fine with our decisions right about now.

[Jack Flash]

While you pined and whined for your atImac the last almost 2 months I've been enjoying the best iMac Apple ever made (up until the release of the 4850 machines but gees not so sure we can call that one the "best" yet since they don't all work atm). Many of us needed new computers and got what was best and available thus the GT 130. $50 dollars cheaper, ready and available and more importantly working.

I won't lie - I wanted the 4850. Hell I was going to buy both this unit and then once the 4850 dropped make this my office computer and use the 4850 as my all in one home machine. But not now. Not with all these issues. Not with the amount of time it took to not only address the eerily similar 2007 issues let alone fix them.

But hey good luck sending your computer in for checks and false repairs and haggling with returns and tech support calls until you finally get a machine that works. Indeed sounds like a good deal to pay $50 more for all that hassle. By the time this all gets sorted out there will be quad core iMacs around the corner that are bigger better faster and cheaper...and hopefully working. Yeah I think us GT 130 owners are sitting pretty fine with our decisions right about now.
Hah I have a Hackintosh which has yet to experience a single issue, cost under $900 and wipes the floor with Apple's most expensive iMac. I'm just saying that for such an expensive machine the $50 is well spent. I'd wait until 10.5.7 ships, though.

[synagence]

My 2.93Ghz imac w/ ATI 4850 has now been running uninterrupted for 1 week without a single crashed app, force-quit, lockup or even reboot (other than the initial software update following turning it on)....

the numbers seem divided on good vs bad iMac's but i couldn't be happier with my model

[itommyboy]

Hah I have a Hackintosh

I see. So are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

[Jack Flash]

I see. So are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

I paid $130 for my retail Leopard so yes, I put some towards R&D that should fix this issue. :)

[itommyboy]

I paid $130 for my retail Leopard so yes, I put some towards R&D that should fix this issue. :)


I rest my case.

[Jack Flash]

I rest my case.

Now if only you'll tell us just what that case is. :)

[Tom Dahl]

...the 3K machine you are buying....
What are the units in your price figure? US dollars? If so, how did you manage to configure an iMac for so much money? (I hope you're not considering the 8 gigabytes of RAM in that figure -- that is a quite unnecessary option for 99.9% of buyers I would think.)

My 3.06 / 4850 / 640GB iMac cost me about $2150 on the USA Apple web store.

[itommyboy]

Now if only you'll tell us just what that case is. :)

If you can't figure that out you don't deserve to know. ;)

[Jack Flash]

If you can't figure that out you don't deserve to know. ;)

That Apple shouldn't have shipped these computers before 10.5.7?

[bajee]

@Tom Dahl
ok, its an exaggeration but still tis a 2k++ worth machine. I'm just saying that you don't buy a mac for its gaming capabilities. Let me rephrase it a little, Don't ever buy a mac for 3d gaming, never never never... lol. People buy a mac for doing serious work, since its rock solid and support is best. But its a whole different world in terms of gaming.

If you want FPS, and glorified AA for your games, then get a PC, you can get one real cheap at 1/4th of the price you are paying or better yet get a console game (xbox or ps3).

So what, you buy the top of the line imac with 4850 graphics card, just to install Windows and play games with it? LOL

[jmpage2]

@Tom Dahl
ok, its an exaggeration but still tis a 2k++ worth machine. I'm just saying that you don't buy a mac for its gaming capabilities. Let me rephrase it a little, Don't ever buy a mac for 3d gaming, never never never... lol. People buy a mac for doing serious work, since its rock solid and support is best. But its a whole different world in terms of gaming.

If you want FPS, and glorified AA for your games, then get a PC, you can get one real cheap at 1/4th of the price you are paying or better yet get a console game (xbox or ps3).

So what, you buy the top of the line imac with 4850 graphics card, just to install Windows and play games with it? LOL

My iMac with 4850 was under $1900 with overnight shipping. Not everyone wants two computers. One for gaming and one for work. The new iMac is a solid desktop and decent at gaming. Also your $500 PC won't have a $700 IPS panel like the iMac.

[bajee]

@jmpage2

hope you read the previous post before actually posting, I'm just saying the difference of 4850 and a gt130, will probably be on games, and you would never want to equate mac with games. With all the guys whining about how their iMac freezes every 20 minutes, its not worth the wait and the anguish of having a sucky computer, where you have to wait for a fix.

[unid]

iMac uses TN panels NOT IPS. :P. Check out the iMac disassembly the panels are just tn panels form other brands.

Think you'll find that the 24" imac uses IPS, and the 20" imac uses TN.

[m.jakey]

Hi;

How did you get that price-mine ran over 2k?

Thanks

[mäkmäk]

I got the faulty ati mac 2days ago and I had 3 freezes until now which is really annoying. apart from that I am really happy with my choice.. can not say anything about the speed of the geforce but the ati runs xplane 9 smooth on verz high details and does not even get very hot. but I will have to test a game like crysis to really proof that the ati was a good choice.

another question I have is if it would be better to wait for a fix regarding the ati 4850 freezes or just get apple to replace the whole machine or repair it....??

PS. no freezes yet when wifi is turned off:apple:

[BenManchester]

another question I have is if it would be better to wait for a fix regarding the ati 4850 freezes or just get apple to replace the whole machine or repair it....??

My advice would be to wait for a fix. You have one year to send your machine back if no fix is released (which I strongly doubt). :)

Original aluminium iMacs had the same problem and it was fixed by a firmware update. I can't remember how long it took, though. I would say a few weeks at most.

[jmpage2]

@jmpage2

hope you read the previous post before actually posting, I'm just saying the difference of 4850 and a gt130, will probably be on games, and you would never want to equate mac with games. With all the guys whining about how their iMac freezes every 20 minutes, its not worth the wait and the anguish of having a sucky computer, where you have to wait for a fix.

If the iMac "wasn't for gaming" then Apple wouldn't even offer a high end mobile chipset in it like the 4850. What else is it good for? It isn't going to help with work tasks.

The iMac is comparable in price to other all-in-one computers, some of which do decent at gaming.

Is an iMac going to perform like a giant budget PC tower? No, of course not. You are comparing apples to oranges though when you try to compare a $500 budget PC tower with crummy $200 TN panel monitor to the iMac.

Maybe it just burns your back side that the iMac with 4850 card is turning in some respectable gaming benchmarks.

[Jack Flash]

If the iMac "wasn't for gaming" then Apple wouldn't even offer a high end mobile chipset in it like the 4850. What else is it good for? It isn't going to help with work tasks.

The iMac is comparable in price to other all-in-one computers, some of which do decent at gaming.

Is an iMac going to perform like a giant budget PC tower? No, of course not. You are comparing apples to oranges though when you try to compare a $500 budget PC tower with crummy $200 TN panel monitor to the iMac.

Maybe it just burns your back side that the iMac with 4850 card is turning in some respectable gaming benchmarks.

The computer in my signature cost just under $900 and does have an IPS display.

[bajee]

@jmpage2

are you suggesting that apple wants people to run windows on their imac to play games? LOL. anyway, just read what Jack Flash said :)

You know I don't want to argue about macs in general, I mean, why would I even be here if I hate macs.

I'm just saying that the better buy is the one with the gt130, since you're getting a perfect machine with no hassle, I mean that's why most switchers like about macs right?

The reason you're pointing out is that 4850 gives more fps than gt130, tell you what, there's is no significant difference! you can still play the same games you play in 4850 than that of gt130,

you said it yourself:
If you're buying any iMac for gaming performance you will probably be disappointed. The 4850 iMac just disappoints a bit less than the other iMac models.

That's what I'm saying, the advantages of 4850, (if there is any) isn't worth it . Bottom line is if you want a significant increase of 3d gaming performance than its either you buy a mac pro of build a PC.

[jmpage2]

That's what I'm saying, the advantages of 4850, (if there is any) isn't worth it . Bottom line is if you want a significant increase of 3d gaming performance than its either you buy a mac pro of build a PC.

You don't think that a 40-60% improvement in gaming performance is worth $50?

Wow.

The only way it isn't worth it if is Apple is unable to fix the problems.

As to Frankemac guy above, seeing as the lowest price 24" IPS panels tend to run about $500 I would say he's full of it if he says he got a 24" IPS panel as well as that tower for $900.

Not to mention that some of us are willing to pay a bit more for the aesthetics of not having a big black or beige box sitting under a desk with 10 cables plugged into it.

To each their own. You arguing that the GT130 is better "because you shouldn't play games on a Mac anyway" is laughable. Does MS expect people to run games under Windows on their Macs? Yes, they do, or they never would have released Boot Camp.

Duh.

[Jack Flash]

You don't think that a 40-60% improvement in gaming performance is worth $50?

Wow.

The only way it isn't worth it if is Apple is unable to fix the problems.

As to Frankemac guy above, seeing as the lowest price 24" IPS panels tend to run about $500 I would say he's full of it if he says he got a 24" IPS panel as well as that tower for $900.

Not to mention that some of us are willing to pay a bit more for the aesthetics of not having a big black or beige box sitting under a desk with 10 cables plugged into it.

To each their own. You arguing that the GT130 is better "because you shouldn't play games on a Mac anyway" is laughable. Does MS expect people to run games under Windows on their Macs? Yes, they do, or they never would have released Boot Camp.

Duh.

Hey If it was so bad who would buy a Mac Pro? I'm an iMac switcher but Dell's 2209WA is a 22" IPS panel which can be had for $212 or less.

[jmpage2]

Hey If it was so bad who would buy a Mac Pro? I'm an iMac switcher but Dell's 2209WA is a 22" IPS panel which can be had for $212 or less.

That's not comparable to the 24" IPS panel in the 24" iMac. If a 22" does it for you, then great, but it's a completely different price point device running a different resolution.

The Mac Pro is a great box, but completely over kill for 99% of users. You shouldn't have to get a $3000 box just to get decent gpu performance.

The bottom line is that the 4850 is the most capable GPU that Apple has ever offered in an iMac and is probably going to best performance possible with Mac Pro + 8800GT from just a few months ago.

Pretty good option for those who don't want to run two computers at their desk or for those who don't want to go the frankenmac route.

[Jack Flash]

That's not comparable to the 24" IPS panel in the 24" iMac. If a 22" does it for you, then great, but it's a completely different price point device running a different resolution.

The Mac Pro is a great box, but completely over kill for 99% of users. You shouldn't have to get a $3000 box just to get decent gpu performance.

The bottom line is that the 4850 is the most capable GPU that Apple has ever offered in an iMac and is probably going to best performance possible with Mac Pro + 8800GT from just a few months ago.

Pretty good option for those who don't want to run two computers at their desk or for those who don't want to go the frankenmac route.

Oh I agree on the 4850. $50 is nothing in the grand scheme of an iMac purchase.

[VulnoX]

Ok, had to respond, because wow.

First off, the 50% poll thing is anything but accurate or scientific. A lot of people that would find this website, that thread, etc, would have been searching for resolutions to their problem of a freezing iMac, which is how I found this thread (I don't have a freezing iMac, but I was doing searches on the iMac for possible problems because I just ordered one).

Second, I have read from other threads that just running a fan control program of freezing iMac's that makes the fans kick in sooner has resolved, from what I saw of those complaining and their responses, 100% of the problem. It also seems to be that people not using the WiFi/Bluetooth chipsets dont have the issue. That doesn't make this problem ok, but if I just have to run an App that turns up my fans in order to make the much faster 4850 work just fine until Apple actually fixes it, thats hardly worth giving up a superior video card for.

Finally, To the guy that uses "lol" over and over in his posts and talks about just building a gaming machine and blah blah blah, man, just stop. I am typing this on a Q6600, 4GB, 22" Dell monitor, etc etc computer I built in April last year. Even with shopping around, NewEgg, rebates, all that, it still came out to be $1200, and that doesn't even include the OS or my mouse because I already had a mouse.

Build a computer that matches the iMac, that means a Wireless N network card, speakers, 24" IPS, not 22, and even then, of equal color, brightness, etc. Then add an Operating System, and at least $100 to the cost for a year warranty and phone support. Then add the keyboard, mouse, everything that is comparable that comes with the iMac.

Make it work for a significant amount less than the iMac. Oh and it has to look good too, because with the iMac you are talking an all in one, and not as someone else pointed out a large, loud, box sitting next to you.

No download windows from Torrent sites like a tool, none of that, actual retail stuff here. Yes, you can get the components and build it for less usually, and it might even be faster, but once you add the value of the form factor, the warranty, the OS and other software, there is no way and hell its worth the headache of building it yourself and dealing with DOA equipment, sending crap back if its bad, whatever, and this is coming from a long time computer builder that loves this stuff. There is a difference between doing the hobby because you love it, and being realistic.

And as far as the ATI goes, just get it, there is already a workaround (which we shouldn't have to do, but at least it exists) and even if its not as big a deal now, in two years when you don't already have to trade in your computer it will seem like the damn right choice.

[bajee]

Does MS expect people to run games under Windows on their Macs? Yes, they do, or they never would have released Boot Camp.

Duh.

Duh, MS didn't make bootcamp

@VulnoX

Well I'm not a real fan of MS either, but if you're into games, a PC is always better. If you play games in and iMac in windows, that's the same sh%t OS you're throwing in your machine. You'll be getting the same problems as far as the OS is concerned? You get my point?

I'm just saying I'm not buying an iMac for its gaming capabilities. like jmpage2 said which i quote

[VulnoX]

Duh, MS didn't make bootcamp

@VulnoX

Well I'm not a real fan of MS either, but if you're into games, a PC is always better. If you play games in and iMac in windows, that's the same sh%t OS you're throwing in your machine. You'll be getting the same problems as far as the OS is concerned? You get my point?

I'm just saying I'm not buying an iMac for its gaming capabilities. like jmpage2 said which i quote

Nothing I said had anything to do with playing games in Windows or anything even remotely like that.

First off, a PC is not ALWAYS better. For example, World of Warcraft. You get built in functions like video capture and encoding, and iTunes controls that would require extra work on a PC. It also runs damn well, and under the current patch from what I see, people don't see a real performance difference between the OS', and OSX probably stomps Vista in WoW performance.

The only reason OSX would be worse than Windows is if the game didn't run with OSX, but fewer and fewer games are Windows Exclusive, and even beyond that, Windows (from reports) runs faster under Boot Camp than it does on comparable Dell/HP machines made to run Windows, so to say it would be as good or worse to run Windows on a Mac is just false.

I don't have a problem with MS or Windows, I don't get people that do, I have yet to see them do anything so horrible as to make them an enemy. Vista sucked/sucks, but find me a company that has never made mistakes... yeah they don't exist. For that to happen people would have to be perfect and they aren't. I am typing this on a Windows 7 machine, and I friggin' LOVE Windows 7.

My post was to get people to be realistic, which seems harder and harder to find. I have had to respond to people complaining about the Mac Mini saying they could build a PC for $600 that's faster.

THAT'S NOT THE POINT, build one that's the same form factor, and software, power usage, as quiet, etc etc, for the same price. Not happening.

Thats what I saw in this thread too, people saying the iMac should be compared to some home built computer they claim cost $900 with no proof to back it up. Lying to make your point, or even stretching the truth or conveniently leaving things out, isn't going to get anyone anywhere, someone is always checking your work.

[bajee]

oh ok at VulnoX, sorry, I was thinking of jmpage2, you see in our previous discussion,

You arguing that the GT130 is better "because you shouldn't play games on a Mac anyway" is laughable.

I'm not a fan of windows either, but I'm just saying, that I don't buy macs just to play games, I buy them for work. So for me its better to get the gt130 option, alleviating myself with the problem. Whatever happens to "it just works" motto.

Anyway guys, if you guys are willing to wait for the 4850 before, this is a better treat!

onlive (http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/23/steve-perlmans-onlive-could-turn-the-video-game-world-upside-down/)

Now you can play crysis in absolute MAX settings, even using the slowest of the mac line, or even a macbook air!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/03/onlive-game-demo-grab.jpg

Now if you're argument is getting the 4850 because of its 3d gaming performance then this destroys it :D, you can play any games all at max system even on the slowest mac line :)

[jmpage2]

Duh, MS didn't make bootcamp

@VulnoX

Well I'm not a real fan of MS either, but if you're into games, a PC is always better. If you play games in and iMac in windows, that's the same sh%t OS you're throwing in your machine. You'll be getting the same problems as far as the OS is concerned? You get my point?

I'm just saying I'm not buying an iMac for its gaming capabilities. like jmpage2 said which i quote

Typo, duh!

And as to OnLive, it's going into BETA this summer, which means we won't see it until the fall or winter at the earliest. Also, we don't know what the performance is going to be like when 1M people start hammering on it.

When you game on your own machine at least you have a general expectation of what the performance will be like.

[itommyboy]

Anyway back on point I still say get the GT 130. The ati card is turning out to be nothing more than a Harley Davidson. You think you want it - need it - and by all means it's big and fast and shiny - but turns out it's always in the shop for repairs. :) 7 months or so there will be better bigger faster quad core iMacs with far superior gpu's (or 2) that don't freeze up. :eek:

[Santabean2000]

Ok, had to respond, because wow.

First off, the 50% poll thing is anything but accurate or scientific. A lot of people that would find this website, that thread, etc, would have been searching for resolutions to their problem of a freezing iMac, which is how I found this thread (I don't have a freezing iMac, but I was doing searches on the iMac for possible problems because I just ordered one).

Second, I have read from other threads that just running a fan control program of freezing iMac's that makes the fans kick in sooner has resolved, from what I saw of those complaining and their responses, 100% of the problem. It also seems to be that people not using the WiFi/Bluetooth chipsets dont have the issue. That doesn't make this problem ok, but if I just have to run an App that turns up my fans in order to make the much faster 4850 work just fine until Apple actually fixes it, thats hardly worth giving up a superior video card for.

Finally, To the guy that uses "lol" over and over in his posts and talks about just building a gaming machine and blah blah blah, man, just stop. I am typing this on a Q6600, 4GB, 22" Dell monitor, etc etc computer I built in April last year. Even with shopping around, NewEgg, rebates, all that, it still came out to be $1200, and that doesn't even include the OS or my mouse because I already had a mouse.

Build a computer that matches the iMac, that means a Wireless N network card, speakers, 24" IPS, not 22, and even then, of equal color, brightness, etc. Then add an Operating System, and at least $100 to the cost for a year warranty and phone support. Then add the keyboard, mouse, everything that is comparable that comes with the iMac.

Make it work for a significant amount less than the iMac. Oh and it has to look good too, because with the iMac you are talking an all in one, and not as someone else pointed out a large, loud, box sitting next to you.

No download windows from Torrent sites like a tool, none of that, actual retail stuff here. Yes, you can get the components and build it for less usually, and it might even be faster, but once you add the value of the form factor, the warranty, the OS and other software, there is no way and hell its worth the headache of building it yourself and dealing with DOA equipment, sending crap back if its bad, whatever, and this is coming from a long time computer builder that loves this stuff. There is a difference between doing the hobby because you love it, and being realistic.

And as far as the ATI goes, just get it, there is already a workaround (which we shouldn't have to do, but at least it exists) and even if its not as big a deal now, in two years when you don't already have to trade in your computer it will seem like the damn right choice.

Reasoned, knowledgeable and articulate; well said;)

[bajee]

@jmpage2

nah it wasn't a typo, it was misinformation heheh, I'm just correcting you.

And about onLive, I was saying that if you're willing to wait for 4850, then you're in for a treat, its a another wait, but its definitely worth it.

[Jack Flash]

Ok, had to respond, because wow.
Finally, To the guy that uses "lol" over and over in his posts and talks about just building a gaming machine and blah blah blah, man, just stop. I am typing this on a Q6600, 4GB, 22" Dell monitor, etc etc computer I built in April last year. Even with shopping around, NewEgg, rebates, all that, it still came out to be $1200, and that doesn't even include the OS or my mouse because I already had a mouse.

Build a computer that matches the iMac, that means a Wireless N network card, speakers, 24" IPS, not 22, and even then, of equal color, brightness, etc. Then add an Operating System, and at least $100 to the cost for a year warranty and phone support. Then add the keyboard, mouse, everything that is comparable that comes with the iMac.

Make it work for a significant amount less than the iMac. Oh and it has to look good too, because with the iMac you are talking an all in one, and not as someone else pointed out a large, loud, box sitting next to you.

No download windows from Torrent sites like a tool, none of that, actual retail stuff here. Yes, you can get the components and build it for less usually, and it might even be faster, but once you add the value of the form factor, the warranty, the OS and other software, there is no way and hell its worth the headache of building it yourself and dealing with DOA equipment, sending crap back if its bad, whatever, and this is coming from a long time computer builder that loves this stuff. There is a difference between doing the hobby because you love it, and being realistic.

I expect you're referring to me even though I didn't once say 'lol' That's unimportant, save for that it discloses that you're someone predisposed to fabricating information favorable to your defense. Since you're interested, I will tell you how much each part cost.

Dell 2209WA - $228.96. Purchased @Dell. (8% sales tax, free shipping)
Antec Three Hundred - $48.59. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard - 80.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
Intel Q9400 - $194.39. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
8GB RAM - $43.19 Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping, $40.00 rebate)
22x Samsung Lightscribe DVD drive - $21.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB - $79.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Lepoard Retail DVD - $60.00. - Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
XFX GTX 260 Core 216 - $129.99 Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping, sold two included games for $20 a piece)
Antec NeoPower 500 - 40.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)

Total: $927.10. Did I have to shop around? Yes, I did. Did I already own an Apple Aluminum Keyboard and MX Revolution mouse? Yes, I did. But don't you accuse me of lying to this forum or stealing my software. I'm not a 'hobbyist' and I didn't run into any headaches building this machine. I built it because my iMac was losing value rapidly at each product release while Apple simultaneously was barely upgrading the new models.

You will complain that it isn't a 1:1 match for the iMac. 802.11n? Add $25. 24" IPS monitor? Add $250. Bluetooth? Add $2. (Yes, $2.00) I will protest, however, saying that I have three year or greater warranties on any individual part. You have to add AppleCare to the Mac's cost to match the coverage. It's difficult to get a genius bar appointment these days (I had a Mighty Mouse with my iMac and getting it replaced required waiting until midnight to pounce at reservation slots) so I don't believe Apple has a distinct advantage there.

Having switched from an iMac and I understand the aesthetics. I suppose the fair comparison would be to a Mac Pro but all the same, I decided that vanity wasn't worth the opportunity cost of this machine. I haven't looked back. I used to run my iMac with smcFanControl to keep it cooler than stock. (Simply too hot to be running 24/7) This new box is quieter than that iMac ever was.

I'm sorry you had difficulty building your computers and I'm sorry you didn't get the best prices you could but your experience certainly doesn't speak for me.

EDIT: I realize I misspoke about the cost of my computer earlier. I had said it cost under $900. This was true at my original purchase before upgrading my video card from a $95 ATI 4850 to the GTX 260. Wanted to add that clarification.

[GonzoRob]

I expect you're referring to me even though I didn't once say 'lol' That's unimportant, save for that it discloses that you're someone predisposed to fabricating information favorable to your defense. Since you're interested, I will tell you how much each part cost.

Dell 2209WA - $228.96. Purchased @Dell. (8% sales tax, free shipping)
Antec Three Hundred - $48.59. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard - 80.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
Intel Q9400 - $194.39. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
8GB RAM - $43.19 Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping, $40.00 rebate)
22x Samsung Lightscribe DVD drive - $21.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB - $79.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Lepoard Retail DVD - $60.00. - Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
XFX GTX 260 Core 216 - $129.99 Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping, sold two included games for $20 a piece)
Antec NeoPower 500 - 40.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)

Total: $927.10. Did I have to shop around? Yes, I did. Did I already own an Apple Aluminum Keyboard and MX Revolution mouse? Yes, I did. But don't you accuse me of lying to this forum or stealing my software. I'm not a 'hobbyist' and I didn't run into any headaches building this machine. I built it because my iMac was losing value rapidly at each product release while Apple simultaneously was barely upgrading the new models.

You will complain that it isn't a 1:1 match for the iMac. 802.11n? Add $25. 24" IPS monitor? Add $250. Bluetooth? Add $2. (Yes, $2.00) I will protest, however, saying that I have three year or greater warranties on any individual part. You have to add AppleCare to the Mac's cost to match the coverage. It's difficult to get a genius bar appointment these days (I had a Mighty Mouse with my iMac and getting it replaced required waiting until midnight to pounce at reservation slots) so I don't believe Apple has a distinct advantage there.

Having switched from an iMac and I understand the aesthetics. I suppose the fair comparison would be to a Mac Pro but all the same, I decided that vanity wasn't worth the opportunity cost of this machine. I haven't looked back. I used to run my iMac with smcFanControl to keep it cooler than stock. (Simply too hot to be running 24/7) This new box is quieter than that iMac ever was.

I'm sorry you had difficulty building your computers and I'm sorry you didn't get the best prices you could but your experience certainly doesn't speak for me.



*fans the flames*

These are Mac forums, frequented by Mac enthusiasts. Does anyone else find it really irritating when users flaunt their cheap ‘Hackintosh’ computers?

Even more so when they act like they’re smarter than the rest of us – as if none of us had ever thought of it or we aren't 'able' to build a desktop PC's.

Not only is it a legally dubious point, but frankly it’s totally out of place.

[Jack Flash]

*fans the flames*

These are Mac forums, frequented by Mac enthusiasts. Does anyone else find it really irritating when users flaunt their cheap ‘Hackintosh’ computers?

Even more so when they act like they’re smarter than the rest of us – as if none of us had ever thought of it or we aren't 'able' to build a desktop PC's.

Not only is it a legally dubious point, but frankly it’s totally out of place.

I only brought up my computer when someone said:

"While you pined and whined for your atImac the last almost 2 months I've been enjoying the best iMac Apple ever made"

I am a Mac enthusiast. I love their software but I got tired of the Apple tax and I don't regret doing it myself. As far as being legally dubious I have to agree. Are EULA's a valid contract? When that's decided in court let me know. I did pay for my copy of Leopard so I don't feel too bad. :apple:

[jmpage2]

I expect you're referring to me even though I didn't once say 'lol' That's unimportant, save for that it discloses that you're someone predisposed to fabricating information favorable to your defense. Since you're interested, I will tell you how much each part cost.


You are still comparing Apples and Oranges (nyuck nyuck) here. A noisy, 40lb desktop tower with separate monitor and an all-in-one PC are completely differently priced and we both know that the iMac is an all in one which by itself commands a price premium.

The implication that people here don't have the skill to do their own builds is laughable, and it's long been the running joke in the PC world that Apple peeps are 'idiots' and such statements just try to reinforce that claim.

The reality is that some of us have done plenty of home builds but are looking for more out of these computers. Having something sitting in front of you that's dead quiet, uses very little energy and works correctly out of the box without spending hours updating BIOS, drivers, etc, is well worth it for quite a lot of folks.

It's also important to note that one man's "bargain" is another man's "waste of time".

My time is far too valuable to screw around with a Hackentosh. I have plenty of my own projects that actually generate $$$ to screw around with a DIY Apple rig.

[Jack Flash]

You are still comparing Apples and Oranges (nyuck nyuck) here. A noisy, 40lb desktop tower with separate monitor and an all-in-one PC are completely differently priced and we both know that the iMac is an all in one which by itself commands a price premium.

The implication that people here don't have the skill to do their own builds is laughable, and it's long been the running joke in the PC world that Apple peeps are 'idiots' and such statements just try to reinforce that claim.

The reality is that some of us have done plenty of home builds but are looking for more out of these computers. Having something sitting in front of you that's dead quiet, uses very little energy and works correctly out of the box without spending hours updating BIOS, drivers, etc, is well worth it for quite a lot of folks.

It's also important to note that one man's "bargain" is another man's "waste of time".

My time is far too valuable to screw around with a Hackentosh. I have plenty of my own projects that actually generate $$$ to screw around with a DIY Apple rig.

Again, you fabricate. I'm not pretending that this was difficult or that it's the same thing as an iMac. Someone in this thread commented about how I was waiting for my 4850 iMac to work to which I replied wasn't the case. Another person questioned my honesty about the parts so I clarified.

I didn't implicate that users of this forum don't have the skill to build their own. It took 20 minutes to put the parts together and another 30 minutes to get Leopard installed and fully functioning. (20 of those minutes were taken up by leopard's disc installer)

The iMac does use little energy but I will contest that it is anything but dead quiet. Unless you want sky-high temperatures (I didn't when I had mine) you will need to set smcFanControl up 1000k+ RPM for each fan and you're going to hear it.

Well enjoy the same saved. For the hour I spent of mine I'm really enjoying the extra $1,500 in my bank account while using the same OS we both love.

[GonzoRob]

It's also important to note that one man's "bargain" is another man's "waste of time".



Agreed. When I was a poor student I built and used Linux PC's out of bailing twine and sticky-tape. I thought they were awesome at the time…

Now I work, I prefer to spend my money on something a bit more refined.

[Jack Flash]

Agreed. When I was a poor student I built and used Linux PC's out of bailing twine and sticky-tape. I thought they were awesome at the time…

Now I work, I prefer to spend my money on something a bit more refined.

To each his own. I would never built a bargain-bin computer because you're likely to have a bargain bin experience with it. By selecting good parts I've had a good time with this Hackintosh.

[jmpage2]

Again, you fabricate. I'm not pretending that this was difficult or that it's the same thing as an iMac. Someone in this thread commented about how I was waiting for my 4850 iMac to work to which I replied wasn't the case. Another person questioned my honesty about the parts so I clarified.

I didn't implicate that users of this forum don't have the skill to build their own. It took 20 minutes to put the parts together and another 30 minutes to get Leopard installed and fully functioning. (20 of those minutes were taken up by leopard's disc installer)

The iMac does use little energy but I will contest that it is anything but dead quiet. Unless you want sky-high temperatures (I didn't when I had mine) you will need to set smcFanControl up 1000k+ RPM for each fan and you're going to hear it.

Well enjoy the same saved. For the hour I spent of mine I'm really enjoying the extra $1,500 in my bank account while using the same OS we both love.

Your PC, if it had a comparable display would be about $400-$500 cheaper than the Radeon 4850 iMac I'm running right now (under $1900 shipped). $500 isn't that big of a deal to me, although everyone has different thoughts about such things.

Also, I've been building systems for 15 years and have never built, or seen someone build a system in an hour. If you add up the time spent ordering parts, unboxing components, assembling, installing software, etc, it usually is quite a bit more than an hour that's involved and that's assuming that you don't run into a single problem during the build such as a faulty component, etc.

Anyways, caveat emptor as they say. I am just trying to keep it real here, there's not much comparison between a Hack with a 22" display and an iMac all-in-one with a 24" IPS screen.

[Jack Flash]

Your PC, if it had a comparable display would be about $400-$500 cheaper than the Radeon 4850 iMac I'm running right now (under $1900 shipped). $500 isn't that big of a deal to me, although everyone has different thoughts about such things.

Also, I've been building systems for 15 years and have never built, or seen someone build a system in an hour. If you add up the time spent ordering parts, unboxing components, assembling, installing software, etc, it usually is quite a bit more than an hour that's involved and that's assuming that you don't run into a single problem during the build such as a faulty component, etc.

Anyways, caveat emptor as they say. I am just trying to keep it real here, there's not much comparison between a Hack with a 22" display and an iMac all-in-one with a 24" IPS screen.

Your iMac is not normally $1,900 shipped. It's normally $2,000 + taxes. If I wanted to substitute a 24" IPS display I would add $200 to my total price bringing me up to $1,150. That's almost a grand cheaper than what Apple is offering. To me the hour (yes, hour) from opening the boxes to logging on to MR in Safari was worth that.

To each his own, though. I'm quite content with the performance I get for the dollar I paid.

Actually, make that add $140 for a 26" IPS display.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185010&Tpk=doublesight

[VulnoX]

I expect you're referring to me even though I didn't once say 'lol' That's unimportant, save for that it discloses that you're someone predisposed to fabricating information favorable to your defense. Since you're interested, I will tell you how much each part cost.

Dell 2209WA - $228.96. Purchased @Dell. (8% sales tax, free shipping)
Antec Three Hundred - $48.59. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard - 80.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
Intel Q9400 - $194.39. Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping)
8GB RAM - $43.19 Purchased @MicroCenter. (8% sales tax, no shipping, $40.00 rebate)
22x Samsung Lightscribe DVD drive - $21.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB - $79.99. Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping)
Lepoard Retail DVD - $60.00. - Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)
XFX GTX 260 Core 216 - $129.99 Purchased @NewEgg. (No sales tax, free shipping, sold two included games for $20 a piece)
Antec NeoPower 500 - 40.00. Purchased @eBay. (No sales tax, free shipping, not used)

Total: $927.10. Did I have to shop around? Yes, I did. Did I already own an Apple Aluminum Keyboard and MX Revolution mouse? Yes, I did. But don't you accuse me of lying to this forum or stealing my software. I'm not a 'hobbyist' and I didn't run into any headaches building this machine. I built it because my iMac was losing value rapidly at each product release while Apple simultaneously was barely upgrading the new models.

You will complain that it isn't a 1:1 match for the iMac. 802.11n? Add $25. 24" IPS monitor? Add $250. Bluetooth? Add $2. (Yes, $2.00) I will protest, however, saying that I have three year or greater warranties on any individual part. You have to add AppleCare to the Mac's cost to match the coverage. It's difficult to get a genius bar appointment these days (I had a Mighty Mouse with my iMac and getting it replaced required waiting until midnight to pounce at reservation slots) so I don't believe Apple has a distinct advantage there.

Having switched from an iMac and I understand the aesthetics. I suppose the fair comparison would be to a Mac Pro but all the same, I decided that vanity wasn't worth the opportunity cost of this machine. I haven't looked back. I used to run my iMac with smcFanControl to keep it cooler than stock. (Simply too hot to be running 24/7) This new box is quieter than that iMac ever was.

I'm sorry you had difficulty building your computers and I'm sorry you didn't get the best prices you could but your experience certainly doesn't speak for me.

EDIT: I realize I misspoke about the cost of my computer earlier. I had said it cost under $900. This was true at my original purchase before upgrading my video card from a $95 ATI 4850 to the GTX 260. Wanted to add that clarification.

I had to read my stuff again, because you said I called you a liar and I don't see that anywhere. No you weren't the lol guy either.

But anyway since you joined in...

First off, good for you for building your computer, its a lot of fun. Second, what I said, and when I read it again I thought it was pretty clear. I said match the quality and have at least equal (meaning basically 1:1) parts to what Apple put in there and have it be aesthetically pleasing.

Part of the reason my computer cost as much as it did is I had to find good quality memory, not just whatever was the cheapest. I went with matching LED's if parts had them, good cabling so there wasn't an air flow restricting mess in my case, etc, etc. All things Apple, Dell, Falcon Northwest, and so on do for you when you buy a computer for them which is part of the added cost. Also as I said, form factor is huge here. Putting all those parts in that small iMac case takes a lot of engineering. You and I had Mid or Full Tower cases to work with.

The point of my post was to say that its stupid to compare an iMac to a PC you built yourself in cost because you can't win, since almost no single builder has the individual resources needed to make something like that, and to get those resources will put you well over the $2000 mark.

So as I said, build a good looking PC that matches the iMac's specs, throw in some money for warranty, and whatever else, and then come back. Also, the Genius Bar thing is pretty relative, every Apple store I have been to in almost four states has had no problem from what I saw dealing with customer service issues, and its still a hell of a lot faster than shipping parts back to NewEgg.

Also, the attacks against me about me having problems building my stuff or whatever isn't necessary, I didn't have any problems with my computer and its running very well. My point is that the chance of issues are just as much there as when you buy any computer, but its a lot easier to let someone else handle them than to deal with tracking down the actual problem, then taking out the part, being without a computer for up to or more than two weeks, and then putting it back in.

For example. You built the computer you listed, and it won't boot. It gives a solid tone every 1 and a half seconds. You now have to hope that tone's code is in the manual (if its not just a PDF which they seem to love doing now), or hop on a computer and find the answer. Maybe you get it right away, its the processor, the motherboard can't detect it correctly. So you pull it out, check everything, put it back in, still nothing.

So you send it back, get a replacement, same problem. You find out, weeks later, that its the cheap ass power supply you bought that doesn't have stable enough voltages on the rail. Wow, what a fun month you just spent tracking down and replacing parts instead of using your computer.

Is that a common scenario? Hell no. But it happens, its possible, and its one of the things you have to take into consideration when doing price comparisons.

Nothing I said was an attack, its me, as someone who has as I said done this for a long time and seen it all, saying that you CANNOT just flat out say one way of doing something is hands down better than another without backing it up with some solid evidence. And since nobody can guarantee that a hobby built computer like yours or mine will run flawlessly the first time, everytime, its just not a fair comparison.

That was all I was saying. I am very happy for you and your computer. If I just went by the parts you listed than my computer was about that much too, but I had to have the damn Logitech G15 keyboard, speakers, the other stuff that adds to the cost (and with the exception of the actual Logitech keyboard comes with the iMac).

[definitive]

Your PC, if it had a comparable display would be about $400-$500 cheaper than the Radeon 4850 iMac I'm running right now (under $1900 shipped). $500 isn't that big of a deal to me, although everyone has different thoughts about such things.

Also, I've been building systems for 15 years and have never built, or seen someone build a system in an hour. If you add up the time spent ordering parts, unboxing components, assembling, installing software, etc, it usually is quite a bit more than an hour that's involved and that's assuming that you don't run into a single problem during the build such as a faulty component, etc.

Anyways, caveat emptor as they say. I am just trying to keep it real here, there's not much comparison between a Hack with a 22" display and an iMac all-in-one with a 24" IPS screen.

a $2k hackintosh beats any imac hands down. it's a fact. you'll have a greater selection of cpus (some of which would reach speeds of mac pro's), and for the screen you can put a 24" dell ultrasharp , and you'll be good to go. only reason i haven't went this route myself is because i don't want to have to deal with editing files, etc., though i've read that there's much less stuff to edit with new vanilla installs, so it works same way as the real thing.

lol @ "keeping it real" on the internet.

[jmpage2]

a $2k hackintosh beats any imac hands down. it's a fact. you'll have a greater selection of cpus (some of which would reach speeds of mac pro's), and for the screen you can put a 24" dell ultrasharp , and you'll be good to go. only reason i haven't went this route myself is because i don't want to have to deal with editing files, etc., though i've read that there's much less stuff to edit with new vanilla installs, so it works same way as the real thing.

lol @ "keeping it real" on the internet.

Yes, because you guys comparing your giant noisy ugly cpu towers to an iMac are anything but realistic.

You also run the risk of any given software update, or new load not working on your Hack. This might not be a big deal to some of you, but what happens when an update to Aperture, etc, requires a certain patch and it won't work on the home brew machine?

These are all things to weigh in making a decision on building a Hack vs buying a Mac.

[definitive]

Yes, because you guys comparing your giant noisy ugly cpu towers to an iMac are anything but realistic.

You also run the risk of any given software update, or new load not working on your Hack. This might not be a big deal to some of you, but what happens when an update to Aperture, etc, requires a certain patch and it won't work on the home brew machine?

These are all things to weigh in making a decision on building a Hack vs buying a Mac.

noise levels depend on the kind of cooling you use. there are quiet, large fans, there's water cooling, there's passive cooling, and there are noise reducing cases. take whatever works best for you.

yes, running the risk of not being able to install the updates is why i didn't go with the hackintosh, though there are certain installation methods that allow you to run updates without a problem (at least for the time being). i'm waiting for apple to fix their 4850 imac's, so i could buy that. if i'd had an extra grand or two to spend (which i find ridiculous), then i would go straight for the mac pro and probably wouldn't have to worry about the system freezing.

[jmpage2]

noise levels depend on the kind of cooling you use. there are quiet, large fans, there's water cooling, there's passive cooling, and there are noise reducing cases. take whatever works best for you.

yes, running the risk of not being able to install the updates is why i didn't go with the hackintosh, though there are certain installation methods that allow you to run updates without a problem (at least for the time being). i'm waiting for apple to fix their 4850 imac's, so i could buy that. if i'd had an extra grand or two to spend (which i find ridiculous), then i would go straight for the mac pro and probably wouldn't have to worry about the system freezing.

You won't get much argument from me on the stupidity of Apple not offering a mid-size option such as a mini tower, placed between the iMac and the Mac Pro.

[VulnoX]

You won't get much argument from me on the stupidity of Apple not offering a mid-size option such as a mini tower, placed between the iMac and the Mac Pro.

Ugh, thank you. I don't know why a company that normally has such great ideas cant get on board with a very simple one. I have a monitor that I love, I have a lot of things that I don't want to get rid of, just let me buy a good looking, well equipped, $1300 Mac Desktop. I have read a lot on the Hackintosh stuff, I just don't want to deal with that possible headache. I have seen one where a guy built two machines that were identical, and one ran fine with OSX, but the other had all kinds of problems.

I love working out computer problems, but sometimes, I just want it to work. Generally the computer problems I like to work out are other peoples, because then I know even if they need a new part, I still get to go home to my fully working system, Windows or OSX.

[bajee]

Just a correction for jmpage2 :D

You also run the risk of any given software update, or new load not working on your Hack. This might not be a big deal to some of you, but what happens when an update to Aperture, etc, requires a certain patch and it won't work on the home brew machine?

Nah you're not doing you're homework, you can now use vanilla kernels that can be updated, this means you are installing 100% legit, unmodified leopard installer disk. and update them real time :)

Yes, because you guys comparing your giant noisy ugly cpu towers to an iMac are anything but realistic.

Ever heard of SFF? small form factor? you can get a sg31g2, for what? 150$ or something? They are super quiet believe me since I have one :).

And again you can never compare iMacs really coz they use mobile parts. Not desktop parts. So its like comparing chocolate with *****. :)

-----------
guys, why are you so combative in nature? Some even call names, very constructive "the lol guy" huh? And statements like "duh", just makes you more.. nevermind .. :D

If you just read definitive Jack Flash statements, they make sense. Its not that they wanna shove you with hackintoshes, they're just correcting most of your false statements :)

-----------

NEWSFLASH:
have you guys saw the front page yet?

5-Fold Increase in Video Encoding with OpenCL CUDA technology. Uh wait, the 4850 doesn't have Opencl CUDA, coz its only available to Nvidia... what???? OMG, you're killing me for real?

pardon my sarcasm, ;) Hope you guys get the point, its not about ooh I'm more l33t coz my computer has this shiny IPS screen. It's about what is better to buy for now, GT 130 or the problematic ATI HD 4850.

Hope we get back on topic. Cheers!

Pardon my typo, if there's any, I'm too tired to check, I'll just take my power nap ciao

[VulnoX]

Just a correction for jmpage2 :D



Nah you're not doing you're homework, you can now use vanilla kernels that can be updated, this means you are installing 100% legit, unmodified leopard installer disk. and update them real time :)



Ever heard of SFF? small form factor? you can get a sg31g2, for what? 150$ or something? They are super quiet believe me since I have one :).

And again you can never compare iMacs really coz they use mobile parts. Not desktop parts. So its like comparing chocolate with *****. :)

-----------
guys, why are you so combative in nature? Some even call names, very constructive "the lol guy" huh? And statements like "duh", just makes you more.. nevermind .. :D

If you just read definitive Jack Flash statements, they make sense. Its not that they wanna shove you with hackintoshes, they're just correcting most of your false statements :)

-----------

NEWSFLASH:
have you guys saw the front page yet?

5-Fold Increase in Video Encoding with OpenCL CUDA technology. Uh wait, the 4850 doesn't have Opencl CUDA, coz its only available to Nvidia... what???? OMG, you're killing me for real?

pardon my sarcasm, ;) Hope you guys get the point, its not about ooh I'm more l33t coz my computer has this shiny IPS screen. It's about what is better to buy for now, GT 130 or the problematic ATI HD 4850.

Hope we get back on topic. Cheers!

Pardon my typo, if there's any, I'm too tired to check, I'll just take my power nap ciao

You should point out what he has shot down, because he never really did. Also, the iMac does not use mobile parts. Its a 3.5" Hard Drive, a desktop processor, desktop video card (They may underclock it slightly, but I have not seen evidence of that), sure is a desktop LCD, a desktop keyboard, a desktop mouse, probably a small form factor motherboard, but not mobile. Seems like they use SO-DIMM's, so there ya go, a "Mobile" part, even though its really just sized down RAM chips.

It seems to ME, that you guys keep coming in here spreading FUD for no reason. So it doesn't do OpenCL, if I got it to do video encoding I would care. This thread, most of your replies, have been about video game performance which the 4850 is better at.

Now you bring this up, which isn't a concern to most 4850 owners, and its NOT EVEN OUT YET. So you are saying in your wonderful smiley faces and apparent flawless logic that if I want a Mac that can play video games the best, that I made a mistake by getting a 4850 instead of a 130 because video encoding is faster on the 130?

Oh wait, yeah, two different things.

Seriously, your threads are nothing more than back handed insults and smiley faces. Its old, its not helpful, and its rarely correct. Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. I have been to the forums for Hackintosh's, and I have seen way more issues on there from all the people asking for help for many different reasons than just a 4850 video card issue that may or may not even happen to more than 10% of users.

If you are happy with your computer, then leave it at that, but these are still completely different beasts we are talking about with completely different designs in mind. Even if you have the smallest form factor PC in the world, its still another box and not built in, its still more cables running somewhere that not everyone wants.

ITS NOT THE SAME, WHY DON'T YOU GET THAT? :) :p :( :mad: :rolleyes: :eek:

[bajee]

You should point out what he has shot down, because he never really did. Also, the iMac does not use mobile parts. Its a 3.5" Hard Drive, a desktop processor, desktop video card (They may underclock it slightly, but I have not seen evidence of that), sure is a desktop LCD, a desktop keyboard, a desktop mouse, probably a small form factor motherboard, but not mobile. Seems like they use SO-DIMM's, so there ya go, a "Mobile" part, even though its really just sized down RAM chips.

It seems to ME, that you guys keep coming in here spreading FUD for no reason. So it doesn't do OpenCL, if I got it to do video encoding I would care. This thread, most of your replies, have been about video game performance which the 4850 is better at.

Now you bring this up, which isn't a concern to most 4850 owners, and its NOT EVEN OUT YET. So you are saying in your wonderful smiley faces and apparent flawless logic that if I want a Mac that can play video games the best, that I made a mistake by getting a 4850 instead of a 130 because video encoding is faster on the 130?

Oh wait, yeah, two different things.

Seriously, your threads are nothing more than back handed insults and smiley faces. Its old, its not helpful, and its rarely correct. Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. I have been to the forums for Hackintosh's, and I have seen way more issues on there from all the people asking for help for many different reasons than just a 4850 video card issue that may or may not even happen to more than 10% of users.

If you are happy with your computer, then leave it at that, but these are still completely different beasts we are talking about with completely different designs in mind. Even if you have the smallest form factor PC in the world, its still another box and not built in, its still more cables running somewhere that not everyone wants.

ITS NOT THE SAME, WHY DON'T YOU GET THAT? :) :p :( :mad: :rolleyes: :eek:

Sorry to burst your bubble friend, but you are wrong there, :) iMac does use mobile parts, ram, gpu (graphics card), cpu (processor). The only desktop component is the hardisk. Its basically a laptop with a big monitor. That's the primary reason why it was still using a core 2 duo rather than a quadcore, first was the availablility of mobile quads, and second was because of the heat that it will generate if it were to use a desktop class cpu processor. Don't get me wrong there, I still love the iMac.

Oh here's a confirmation of the 4850 being a mobile gpu card:

iMac on a mobile ati 4850 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7447081&postcount=1)

Okay, people keep saying that getting a 4850 card will be more future proof. I brought that news since the upcoming Snow Leopard will use that technology.

I guess you didn't get my post, I did say it was purely sarcasm. I apologize if you feel that way. I just want to bring this thread back to topic, since this is becoming more like a PC vs Mac thing, which shouldn't be. It supposed to be a discussion on the pros/cons on having a 4850 or gt130 configuration. From what I see, people keep on attacking each other, very combative in nature. That's why I used sarcasm, to show how ugly this thread is heading.

So everyone, hope we get back on topic again and not sound like a 13 year old whining.

[RobLS]

If people remember back when Aluminum iMacs were introduced, there was a huge drivers issue with NVIDIA's graphics. I was one of those people. It drove me up the wall and finally got to the point where it would freeze upon startup. I lasted about a month before I said hell with it and returned it. Well two weeks after that, an update was released and then people loved them. Give it time. If you waited this long, whats wrong with waiting a little longer. I wish I still had the iMac, but now I am saving to get another. It will get better.

*edit* And there were a few updates before the 'big' one. just an fyi

[LagunaSol]

Well enjoy the same saved. For the hour I spent of mine I'm really enjoying the extra $1,500 in my bank account while using the same OS we both love.

Methinks someone is laying it on a bit thick here. I've built my own PCs. And unless you have the ability to bend time, there's no way you're assembling a PC in 20 minutes. Heck, it takes 20 minutes just to get all the components out of their packaging.

And if you do it right, you're going to spend quite a few hours researching all your components. You know, which mobo works with which processors and which RAM, blah blah blah. Then, to top it off, you need to figure out which components are Hackintosh-ready.

When all is said and done, you're left with a Frankenbox covered under a dozen different manufacturers' warranties (better hope none of those components arrive DOA, or you have a glorified paperweight while you work out an exchange through the mail). And then you're hoping and praying that the next Apple system update doesn't neuter your Hackintosh into a Windows-only affair. *shudder*

Not to mention even when everything does work, you still have a ghetto looking box junking up your space. I don't care what case you buy - they all look like cheap crap. Believe me, I've shopped them all (I did like the Coolermaster Wavemaster, back when they still made them).

Yes, you're saving money. But you're not saving $1,500 by doing a simple hour's work. I guess it makes a nice story, but that's all it is - a nice story.

With the money you do save, there are definite downsides. And for my money, I'm not dealing with building my own ghettoboxes any more. I'm buying Macs. And not regretting a single penny of it.

YMMV.

[mstam]

Well, I was about to purchase the 24" 4850 Mac, my first Mac, until I read about the issues. Freezes, disconnecting BT mouse, noisy fans and that for $2300 for a 2.93GHz notebook CPU?? I always loved OS X and the designs of the Macs, but the h/w was always out of spec, especially the video cards, lack of eSata on the iMac, hard to change HD and so on.

So just for fun, 2 days ago I gave iDeneb, a trickled OS X 10.5.6, a try on my PC, P35 chipset w/ 4GB ram and a C2D E6850 @3.6GHz. The install took me 30 minutes and it took me an other 2 hours to get the onboard ALC888 audio and my ATI 4850 video card working. Now I have dual display support, optical 5.1 S/PDIF out, Logitech web cam, mouse, and keyboard are working fine, BT is working, actually everything is working very smooth, so smooth that in stead of the iMac I'm considering to get an uATX mobo in a nice brushed alu case w/ the Intel 920 Core i7 quad CPU that can be easily overclocked to 3.6-4GHz, 6GB DDR3 memory, a 160GB OCZ Vertex SSD and a 30" LG S-IPS monitor mounted w/ a VESA mount. Total cost $2300, same as the iMac, at least 3x more powerful and quiet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005115

Because I expected to have the iMac by now, I already purchased the Icy Dock external HD enclosure w/ a 1TB WD Green HD for my movies and a 640GB HD to put in my Gentoo Linux box for network Time Machine backups. I installed Netatalk and Avahi and everthing is working well. The Hackintosh thinks I have a X-serve in the network :)

[jmpage2]

How many times do we have to explain to you guys that this;

http://imc.msu.edu/uploads/RTEmagicC_pc_91.jpg.jpg

Does not equal this;

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/09/06/should_you_buy_a_new_mac_mini_imac_or_mac_pro/apple_desktops_05.jpg

Go play around in your Hackintosh forums, I'm sure they luv you long time over there.

[bajee]

If people remember back when Aluminum iMacs were introduced, there was a huge drivers issue with NVIDIA's graphics. I was one of those people. It drove me up the wall and finally got to the point where it would freeze upon startup. I lasted about a month before I said hell with it and returned it. Well two weeks after that, an update was released and then people loved them. Give it time. If you waited this long, whats wrong with waiting a little longer. I wish I still had the iMac, but now I am saving to get another. It will get better.

*edit* And there were a few updates before the 'big' one. just an fyi

I do hope apple fixes the problem. Kudos to the 4850 peeps. That's the only thing that's holding me back. If its still not out around 1st week of May, I might end up with the gt130 :)

----------
Damn, iMac is so sexxxxxxy! :D love the pic

[mstam]

How many times do we have to explain to you guys that this;
Go play around in your Hackintosh forums, I'm sure they luv you long time over there.
Go play around w/ your freezy Mac, but haha you're absolutely right, however like I mentioned, I wanna get the 24" iMac and pay the extra price but of course not when it freezes, makes noise and has BT issues. I use computers on a professional basis and I have not even had 5 lock-ups on my PC in the last year. So what is it gonna be? A sleek looking iMac that freezes or a nice 3x faster clone w/ a 30" S-IPS monitor that doesn't? I need something that works.

I'll wait another 1-2 weeks to see what solution Apple comes up with before I make a decision ;)

[Jack Flash]

With the money you do save, there are definite downsides. And for my money, I'm not dealing with building my own ghettoboxes any more. I'm buying Macs. And not regretting a single penny of it.

YMMV.

Tell that to 4850 iMac owners.

[gianly1985]

From a OpenCL/Snow Leopard point of view, is it right to assume that gt130 is better than ati4850? (let's forget about freezing issues)

I mean, OpenCL is mainly NVIDIA stuff, right?? So, even if less powerful, gt130 will do OpenCL better than ATI?

[Jack Flash]

Methinks someone is laying it on a bit thick here. I've built my own PCs. And unless you have the ability to bend time, there's no way you're assembling a PC in 20 minutes. Heck, it takes 20 minutes just to get all the components out of their packaging.

I'm not sure if you only buy components packaged in uranium plating but mine came in cardboard boxes with one, sometimes even two pieces of tape I had to cut. I wasn't trying to savour the experience and didn't waste any time. Granted, the 20 minutes I was referring to was after I opened the parts but all the same, plugging in a motherboard and these modular parts isn't difficult. Took 20 minutes.

And if you do it right, you're going to spend quite a few hours researching all your components. You know, which mobo works with which processors and which RAM, blah blah blah. Then, to top it off, you need to figure out which components are Hackintosh-ready.

Just followed a guide and bought exactly what i was told to. Download the pre-made CD of setup files and had the device completely operation within an hour of popping open the computer case. I wasn't going to fool around with things that didn't work and wasn't going to spend my own time researching the parts when others have spent countless hours doing that for me.

When all is said and done, you're left with a Frankenbox covered under a dozen different manufacturers' warranties (better hope none of those components arrive DOA, or you have a glorified paperweight while you work out an exchange through the mail). And then you're hoping and praying that the next Apple system update doesn't neuter your Hackintosh into a Windows-only affair. *shudder*

If you want to talk paperweight when it comes to a dead part let's talk the iMac. In the event your iMac breaks (any part of it) you're SOL until a technician can see to it, repair it and return it to you. If my power supply burns out I can walk into Best Buy, maybe even a Walmart for ubiquity's sake and buy a new one.

I've been through a repair process with an iMac before. My DVD burner died. It was 4 days before I got an appointment at the Genius Bar and another 3 before they had it back to me. This was one of the main reasons I sold my iMac and built my own machine.

Also, by default my motherboard, graphics card, processor, RAM, and HDD have a three year warranty. The optical drive is warranted for only two. Apple only offers one year of complimentary warranty. Without adding in the cost of AppleCare it's impossible to make a direct comparison between the 'service' our machines have available.

Not to mention even when everything does work, you still have a ghetto looking box junking up your space. I don't care what case you buy - they all look like cheap crap. Believe me, I've shopped them all (I did like the Coolermaster Wavemaster, back when they still made them).

http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u22694/Antec-300-beauty.jpg

It's not a Mac Pro but it's far from hideous. If I wanted to, I could have spent some more money on a Mac Pro housing and built my Hackintosh inside it. I didn't. Sits in the corner under my desk where it isn't seen anyway. I, of course, bought an IPS monitor.

Yes, you're saving money. But you're not saving $1,500 by doing a simple hour's work. I guess it makes a nice story, but that's all it is - a nice story.

My machine cost $927 with a 20" IPS display. If I had opted for a 26" IPS display I would have spent around $1,070. The cheapest 4850 equipped iMac is $2,000 before taxes and is around half as powerful. The cheapest Mac Pro is $2,500 before taxes. It is marginally faster than my machine.

I don't go around the forum recommending Hackintosh to anyone and everyone and I never intended to make a sales pitch for it in this thread. When I see someone, however, who could benefit from the greater performance I do offer a suggestion with part list and installation guide. My hope is that Apple will get the picture and offer their own headless Mac that does not have the Mac Pro's markup.

Quite frankly, if Apple would sell me what I want I would buy it from them.

[GamaFu]

From a OpenCL/Snow Leopard point of view, is it right to assume that gt130 is better than ati4850? (let's forget about freezing issues)

I mean, OpenCL is mainly NVIDIA stuff, right?? So, even if less powerful, gt130 will do OpenCL better than ATI?

I think you're probably mistaken OpenCL with CUDA. OpenCL is not a Nvidia thing, it's initially developed by Apple and then Khronos Group did the rest to finalize it. Khronos Group is also maintaining OpenGL. Both Nvidia and ATI support the framework, so even though one might perform better than the other due to the different approaches in designing GPU architecture and implementing driver, you shouldn't assume one will be better than the other until we actually see it.

[archipellago]

I'm not sure if you only buy components packaged in uranium plating but mine came in cardboard boxes with one, sometimes even two pieces of tape I had to cut. I wasn't trying to savour the experience and didn't waste any time. Granted, the 20 minutes I was referring to was after I opened the parts but all the same, plugging in a motherboard and these modular parts isn't difficult. Took 20 minutes.



Just followed a guide and bought exactly what i was told to. Download the pre-made CD of setup files and had the device completely operation within an hour of popping open the computer case. I wasn't going to fool around with things that didn't work and wasn't going to spend my own time researching the parts when others have spent countless hours doing that for me.



If you want to talk paperweight when it comes to a dead part let's talk the iMac. In the event your iMac breaks (any part of it) you're SOL until a technician can see to it, repair it and return it to you. If my power supply burns out I can walk into Best Buy, maybe even a Walmart for ubiquity's sake and buy a new one.

I've been through a repair process with an iMac before. My DVD burner died. It was 4 days before I got an appointment at the Genius Bar and another 3 before they had it back to me. This was one of the main reasons I sold my iMac and built my own machine.

Also, by default my motherboard, graphics card, processor, RAM, and HDD have a three year warranty. The optical drive is warranted for only two. Apple only offers one year of complimentary warranty. Without adding in the cost of AppleCare it's impossible to make a direct comparison between the 'service' our machines have available.



http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u22694/Antec-300-beauty.jpg

It's not a Mac Pro but it's far from hideous. If I wanted to, I could have spent some more money on a Mac Pro housing and built my Hackintosh inside it. I didn't. Sits in the corner under my desk where it isn't seen anyway. I, of course, bought an IPS monitor.



My machine cost $927 with a 20" IPS display. If I had opted for a 26" IPS display I would have spent around $1,070. The cheapest 4850 equipped iMac is $2,000 before taxes and is around half as powerful. The cheapest Mac Pro is $2,500 before taxes. It is marginally faster than my machine.

I don't go around the forum recommending Hackintosh to anyone and everyone and I never intended to make a sales pitch for it in this thread. When I see someone, however, who could benefit from the greater performance I do offer a suggestion with part list and installation guide. My hope is that Apple will get the picture and offer their own headless Mac that does not have the Mac Pro's markup.

Quite frankly, if Apple would sell me what I want I would buy it from them.

really great post.

I'm running a 2007 mac mini, Leopard external HD etc.. but also have sundry Dell's and other stuff floating about.

when this 'expires' I may look at the Hackintosh route myself. Could you link me or PM me the install guide/part list?

To be honest (having played around with the beta) once Win 7 Ships I may just go down that route.

Hand on heart I have had more hardware problems with Apple hardware than anything else..... HP, Dell, Compaq etc. which is crazy given the price of the stuff and my investment in Apple overall.

[itommyboy]

*fans the flames*

These are Mac forums, frequented by Mac enthusiasts. Does anyone else find it really irritating when users flaunt their cheap ‘Hackintosh’ computers?

Even more so when they act like they’re smarter than the rest of us – as if none of us had ever thought of it or we aren't 'able' to build a desktop PC's.

Not only is it a legally dubious point, but frankly it’s totally out of place.

This post is for the win. It gnaws at me to no end as well Gonzo. ;)

[Jack Flash]

This post is for the win. It gnaws at me to no end as well Gonzo. ;)

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :)

[LagunaSol]

These are Mac forums, frequented by Mac enthusiasts. Does anyone else find it really irritating when users flaunt their cheap ‘Hackintosh’ computers?

Even more so when they act like they’re smarter than the rest of us – as if none of us had ever thought of it or we aren't 'able' to build a desktop PC's.

Yep, these posts carry the same "duh" factor as the new Microsoft ads. Yes, we know HPs are cheaper than Apples. And yes, we know we could build our own computers for even less.

Microsoft assumes its customers are idiots (and probably rightly so). As for the posters on this board who think they are enlightening us with their tales of homebrewed Frankenboxes, well, I'm not sure what their assumption is. I guess they like to think they're sharing new, valuable information?

In addition to the illegality of it all, as I mentioned before if you choose to play in the Hackintosh camp, you may find yourselves in for a world of pain if Apple decides to start squashing the Hackintosh efforts with a simple system update or two. In my world, the savings aren't worth the risk.

[gianly1985]

Both Nvidia and ATI support the framework, so even though one might perform better than the other due to the different approaches in designing GPU architecture and implementing driver, you shouldn't assume one will be better than the other until we actually see it.

Thank you, so the only way is to wait and see which gpu architecture fits best OpenCL.

[jmpage2]

Go play around w/ your freezy Mac, but haha you're absolutely right, however like I mentioned, I wanna get the 24" iMac and pay the extra price but of course not when it freezes, makes noise and has BT issues. I use computers on a professional basis and I have not even had 5 lock-ups on my PC in the last year. So what is it gonna be? A sleek looking iMac that freezes or a nice 3x faster clone w/ a 30" S-IPS monitor that doesn't? I need something that works.

I'll wait another 1-2 weeks to see what solution Apple comes up with before I make a decision ;)

My 4850 equipped iMac has never frozen once, so do some research on this problem affecting 100% of users before spouting off like it's the gospel.

[jmpage2]

http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u22694/Antec-300-beauty.jpg

It's not a Mac Pro but it's far from hideous. If I wanted to, I could have spent some more money on a Mac Pro housing and built my Hackintosh inside it. I didn't. Sits in the corner under my desk where it isn't seen anyway. I, of course, bought an IPS monitor.



Funny as I have an Antec 300 that I used to build my wife's WHS box for her office backup solution.

It's big, has huge fan vents all over the place, weighs a ton and the power and reset buttons stick sometimes when you depress them. It was a good "cheap" PC case that wasn't absolutely hideous but compared to the type of enclosure a Mac ships in it is 100% a joke.

[mstam]

My 4850 equipped iMac has never frozen once, so do some research on this problem affecting 100% of users before spouting off like it's the gospel.
So what you're saying is for people to buy the iMac w/ a 50% chance it'll freeze and on top of that it also has BT disconnect issues and noisy fans to keep it cool? Well, thanks, all the hardware I own has a failure rate below 5%.

[mstam]

It was a good "cheap" PC case that wasn't absolutely hideous but compared to the type of enclosure a Mac ships in it is 100% a joke.
Personally I prefer a green w/ purple and brown case w/ hardware that works than a beautiful machine that randomly locks up.

[Jack Flash]

Funny as I have an Antec 300 that I used to build my wife's WHS box for her office backup solution.

It's big, has huge fan vents all over the place, weighs a ton and the power and reset buttons stick sometimes when you depress them. It was a good "cheap" PC case that wasn't absolutely hideous but compared to the type of enclosure a Mac ships in it is 100% a joke.

Oh boo hoo. It's a box to put the parts in. It isn't an eyesore and it keeps the components organized and safe. Sorry you're upset about it. I prefer the fan vents to having the ridiculous temperatures of my old iMac. Power and reset buttons have yet to stick.

[Jack Flash]

In addition to the illegality of it all, as I mentioned before if you choose to play in the Hackintosh camp, you may find yourselves in for a world of pain if Apple decides to start squashing the Hackintosh efforts with a simple system update or two. In my world, the savings aren't worth the risk.

First, it's not illegal. At worst it's breaking the EULA which has not been legally determined to be a valid contract.

Second, it uses the vanilla kernel. I can do every system update Apple throws at me without issue. The only method Apple has to stop Hackintosh is to ad some sort of authentication to EFI at boot which they can't do without thwarting every mac they've sold before such a 'chip' existed.

[itommyboy]

Jack Flash you seem pretty defensive about your fake Mac. I bet you still use Lime Wire and bit torrent sites and tell yourself that isn't illegal or immoral as well. :confused:

[Jack Flash]

Jack Flash you seem pretty defensive about your fake Mac. I bet you still use Lime Wire and bit torrent sites and tell yourself that isn't illegal or immoral as well. :confused:

Runs Leopard just as well as my iMac did. Not worried about it. And no, I don't steal music nor did I steal Leopard. I paid for my retail disc and installed it without issue. Nice try, though.

[jmpage2]

So what you're saying is for people to buy the iMac w/ a 50% chance it'll freeze and on top of that it also has BT disconnect issues and noisy fans to keep it cool? Well, thanks, all the hardware I own has a failure rate below 5%.

No, what I'm saying is that the problem doesn't affect everyone, which points to something like the wi-fi + radeon being the issue. In the likely event it's something like that it will almost certainly be fixed via firmware update.

[Jack Flash]

No, what I'm saying is that the problem doesn't affect everyone, which points to something like the wi-fi + radeon being the issue. In the likely event it's something like that it will almost certainly be fixed via firmware update.

I agree Apple will resolve it but I believe it currently affects all iMacs equipped with the 4850.

Also, to those who question me, I believe the iMac and Hackintosh cater to fundamentally different audiences. The iMac is the best all-in-one computer on the market, Mac, PC or what have you. However, there are those who require more power and at the same time do not need the extra niceties the Mac Pro offers (Server class processors, FB-DIMMS)

I am not making a sales pitch for a Hackintosh, simply defending my position on its necessity given Apple's current lack of headless midrange tower.

[bajee]

let me get this trait, I'm a pro apple, I love their products, I am especially lured by the sexiness of an iMac.

However, JackFlash really has a point as well. JackFlash wants a higher performance Mac but doesn't want to spend thousand of dollars in a macpro. Also I very much agree with the repair analogy. My friend had a stuck fan before, and his mac keeps on shutting down due to excessive heat. He waited for 3 days just for the stuck fan, where in fact you can get those fan real cheap, if it wasn't an all in one factor, that's one downside of an all in one factor.

But jmpage2 has a very valid point as well, which he posted on the previous pages. JackFlash system would be probably in the middle of a mac pro and the iMac line, which is still non-existent mac. The closest is the entry level mac pro, howver it uses server grade CPU, that's why it demands a hefty price. Now if Apple would design a more powerful mac mini for its desktop class, that would be awesome.

[bajee]

oops, I didn't see JackFlash last post, yes indeed they do cater different audiences, if apple would fill the void ....

Anyway, let's just hope apple fixes with the 10.57, if it doesn't get the gt130 and save yourself with headaches. Use a console for your games or buy a PC. If you just want a single computer, and still want 4850, its better to wait then buy a problematic machine, hoping it WOULD be fix.

[Tom Dahl]

I agree Apple will resolve it but I believe it currently affects all iMacs equipped with the 4850.
[Emphasis added]

I have had my iMac 3.06 / 4850 since April 10th. I've run WoW on it using Ultra settings almost every day (usually for at least 30 minutes, often for a couple of hours), for more than two weeks. It has never frozen. Just FYI!

[VulnoX]

[Emphasis added]

I have had my iMac 3.06 / 4850 since April 10th. I've run WoW on it using Ultra settings almost every day (usually for at least 30 minutes, often for a couple of hours), for more than two weeks. It has never frozen. Just FYI!

Do you use ethernet? It seems to be a problem with WiFi and doing web heavy tasks, and less to do with doing graphical ones. It doesn't seem to be (please note the "seem") an issue with cooling, just a conflict somewhere along the software or hardware chain.

Or maybe the Airport card is really close to the video card and when you do heavy tasks it radiates too much heat to the ATI.

Whatever the case, its not the end of the world I am pretty sure of that, and will be worked out. The first "hackintosh" had their share of problems and still do. The great thing about computer is that there is always a fix.

But yeah, they need a bit larger Mac Mini that you can throw at least two or three hard drives in and plug into your own stuff. But my guess is they have a nice profit margin buying all those LCD's and everything in such bulk for their AIO's.

[bajee]

With having people who has a working 4850 cards, one can assume that the 4850 problem is probably a bad batch of the ati 4850 cards, so I guess there is no fix for it besides having a replacement.

[VulnoX]

With having people who has a working 4850 cards, one can assume that the 4850 problem is probably a bad batch of the ati 4850 cards, so I guess there is no fix for it besides having a replacement.

I don't think I have seen anyone yet have a working 4850 iMac who was also using WiFi, from the posts I have seen, people who claimed to have working iMac's later said they had been using Ethernet, not WiFi, when people started to see the connection.