Our National Humiliation

[pooky]

Via Talking Points Memo:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2009/04/summit-of-the-americas-behind-the-scenes.php?img=2

Our nation cannot stand idly by while our president humiliates and debases himself before foreign leaders this way. First they catch him bowing before the Saudi King (how dare he!), then he (gasp) shakes hands with foreign leaders who are clearly beneath his station, and now this!

The case for impeachment is clear.

The time to act is now.

I urge you to contact your congressman.

[yg17]

Via Talking Points Memo:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2009/04/summit-of-the-americas-behind-the-scenes.php?img=2

Our nation cannot stand idly by while our president humiliates and debases himself before foreign leaders this way. First they catch him bowing before the Saudi King (how dare he!), then he (gasp) shakes hands with foreign leaders who are clearly beneath his station, and now this!

The case for impeachment is clear.

The time to act is now.

I urge you to contact your congressman.

Thank goodness the dog wasn't a German Shepherd or the right would be accusing him of befriending the nazis :rolleyes:

[Kashchei]

Here is a cartoon about the voices of reason within the right wing universe (right wingoverse).

[yojitani]

Here is a cartoon (http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/04/21/tomo/index.html?source=newsletter) about the voices of reason within the right wing universe (right wingoverse).

I get 'Green Porn" ... what was it you were linking to?

[Gelfin]

This "hand-shaking" will not stand. Our chieftain is revealing his weakness to potential enemies by offering them his sword-hand, without a sword in it.

Clearly the man has no understanding of the responsibilities of his station. He will have to slaughter a great many peasants to win back the people's trust after such a blunder.

[paddy]

I presume you're being sarcastic?

[Shivetya]

OK, which is loonier, this guy or the anti-Christian guy?

[leekohler]

OK, which is loonier, this guy or the anti-Christian guy?

I think pooky was joking. ;) And that anti-christian thing was just...weird.

[Peace]

I find it odd that these right-wing Christian wacko's are condemning Obama for behaving like a Christian when meeting someone.

Jesus did the same thing all the time..

[yg17]

I find it odd that these right-wing Christian wacko's are condemning Obama for behaving like a Christian when meeting someone.

Jesus did the same thing all the time..

If Jesus was around today, the Christian wackos would crucify him for being a socialist :rolleyes:

[leekohler]

If Jesus was around today, the Christian wackos would crucify him for being a socialist :rolleyes:

So sad and true. :(

[Desertrat]

There definitely are certain protocols among heads of state. One is that of equality, which means no bowing. The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S. That's far more important than what may well have been intended as no more than a courtesy. Given the governmental structures common to the middle east, the ruler IS the country.

Another facet which seems to be ignored is that of the culture: It is macho to an extreme, and any offer of apology is seen as weakness. That leads to decision-making for future actions which could easily lead to more trouble, rather than less. As has been said on this forum more than once, it is a weakness within our policy makers that they won't learn foreign cultures--and this is a continuation of that flaw.

'Rat

[Peace]

[snip]

There definitely are certain protocols among heads of state.

They've been working wonderfully haven't they ?.:rolleyes:

[kavika411]

They've been working wonderfully haven't they ?.:rolleyes:

What does your rhetorical question mean as it relates to this topic? Just curious.

[barkmonster]

I bet this is obama's favourite psychedelic indie tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M10Akohu0

:p

A politician is petting an animal, oh no!

[leekohler]

There definitely are certain protocols among heads of state. One is that of equality, which means no bowing. The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S. That's far more important than what may well have been intended as no more than a courtesy. Given the governmental structures common to the middle east, the ruler IS the country.

Another facet which seems to be ignored is that of the culture: It is macho to an extreme, and any offer of apology is seen as weakness. That leads to decision-making for future actions which could easily lead to more trouble, rather than less. As has been said on this forum more than once, it is a weakness within our policy makers that they won't learn foreign cultures--and this is a continuation of that flaw.

'Rat

Oh please! I have a feeling Obama pays more attention to other cultures than Bush did. One mistake and it's, "Oh- he's just the same as Bush!" from you people. At least Obama can form a complete sentence.

Thing is, you loved it when Bush disrespected other cultures. Admit it.

And since when is petting a dog a faux pas?

[Peace]

What does your rhetorical question mean as it relates to this topic? Just curious.

Ok. duh.

It means perhaps this country's leaders need to adjust the way they "meet and greet" other world leaders ( read more honestly ). The way Obama greeted world leaders is normal in my mind and I do not believe other world leaders view Obama as badly as they viewed Bush. And we all know how well foreign policy worked under Bush.

If you can't understand that I can't help you.

Oh and here's one from when Reagan first met Gorboshav before the cold war ended.

[iJohnHenry]

He's just checking his forearm for a dagger.

This thread is ultra strange.

[Gelfin]

Another facet which seems to be ignored is that of the culture: It is macho to an extreme, and any offer of apology is seen as weakness. That leads to decision-making for future actions which could easily lead to more trouble, rather than less. As has been said on this forum more than once, it is a weakness within our policy makers that they won't learn foreign cultures--and this is a continuation of that flaw.

It is awfully convenient how the regions in which non-white people live helpfully all adhere to one set of psychological and personality traits so that we can easily distill their entire cultural identity and thus devise clever stratagems to outmaneuver them.

Imagine how complicated world politics would be if they were as diverse and complex as we are.

[bruinsrme]

OK, which is loonier, this guy or the anti-Christian guy?

toss up

[mactastic]

There definitely are certain protocols among heads of state. One is that of equality, which means no bowing. The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S. That's far more important than what may well have been intended as no more than a courtesy. Given the governmental structures common to the middle east, the ruler IS the country.

Another facet which seems to be ignored is that of the culture: It is macho to an extreme, and any offer of apology is seen as weakness. That leads to decision-making for future actions which could easily lead to more trouble, rather than less. As has been said on this forum more than once, it is a weakness within our policy makers that they won't learn foreign cultures--and this is a continuation of that flaw.

'Rat
Yes there certainly IS protocol among heads of state. One thing you do NOT do is to look into their eyes and get a sense of their "soul".

But you didn't have a problem when Bush did that with Pooty-poot, now did you?

Oh, and isn't there some protocol about not calling foreign leaders demeaning nicknames after assessing their soul and determining that it was hunky-dory?

The only reason this is an issue is Obama-hatred. When Bush made out with the Saudi prince, nary a peep was raised by the right.

Oh yeah, and what kind of symbolism did "many Islamics" take our servicemen and women placing the Koran in the toilet? Placing womens underwear on their heads? Were you worried about symbolism then?

[pdham]

The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S.
'Rat

Link?

[pooky]

I think pooky was joking. ;) And that anti-christian thing was just...weird.

It's amazing just how ridiculous you can be and still have people believe you. People are either way too gullible, or the righties are getting so far out there that one can post utter nonsense and still be believed...

[skunk]

There definitely are certain protocols among heads of state. One is that of equality, which means no bowing. The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S. That's far more important than what may well have been intended as no more than a courtesy. Given the governmental structures common to the middle east, the ruler IS the country.This is arrant nonsense, 'Rat. There is no protocol among heads of state which precludes common courtesy, and never has been. Who are these "many Islamics", and what the hell does that phrase mean? If you mean Muslim, why don't you say it? And which "government structures" are "common to the Middle East"? There are constitutional monarchies, republics, military dictatorships, power-sharing democracies, sheikhdoms, sultanates, oligarchies and one party socialist states. Could you elaborate on your fantasy a little?

[beatzfreak]

It's amazing just how ridiculous you can be and still have people believe you. People are either way too gullible, or the righties are getting so far out there that one can post utter nonsense and still be believed...

It's probably a little bit of both.

I just wanted to say thanks for the link. Some great photos from the trip.:)

[Randman]

Maybe someone will throw a shoe at Obama and the OP will feel better once again.

[Zombie Acorn]

Congress scares me much more than Obama. Only problem I have with Obama is he keeps making hard lines and then softening up the edges instead of sticking with it. I really would have liked to see him take a stand again porky ******** in the past few bills, that would have sent a message to congress to shape up or the public is going to ask them to ship out.

[Desertrat]

Y'all are gonna try to make me believe that a culture which denigrates women as does Islam is not macho? That the hundreds of books and articles about Islamic countries have never spoken of their attitudes towards "manly" and "unmanly" behavior? How they perceive strength and weakness?

Y'all could stand to learn how to read without imposing your own political views onto what is said. You'll note that I put no personal political viewpoints into my previous post. None. I spoke only to actions and well-known cultural aspects.

[pdham]

You'll note that I put no personal political viewpoints into my previous post. None. I spoke only to actions and well-known cultural aspects.

Then it should be easy to provide factual evidence to support this statement:

The symbolism of the bow was taken by many Islamics to mean a subservience to Islam on the part of Obama and by extension, the U.S.

[mactastic]

Y'all are gonna try to make me believe that a culture which denigrates women as does Islam is not macho? That the hundreds of books and articles about Islamic countries have never spoken of their attitudes towards "manly" and "unmanly" behavior? How they perceive strength and weakness?

Y'all could stand to learn how to read without imposing your own political views onto what is said. You'll note that I put no personal political viewpoints into my previous post. None. I spoke only to actions and well-known cultural aspects.
I also note that you refused to answer any of the questions put to you...

[skunk]

Y'all could stand to learn how to read without imposing your own political views onto what is said. You'll note that I put no personal political viewpoints into my previous post. None. I spoke only to actions and well-known cultural aspects.Of course you did. Every word of what you said was trumpeting your personal political views loud and clear.

[mactastic]

Of course you did. Every word of what you said was trumpeting your personal political views loud and clear.
Now skunk, you know how this works. 'Rat is the only person who sees things clearly and in an unbiased manner. Everyone else (except those who agree with him) sees things through partisan blinders.

[Counterfit]

Since when is "Islamic" a noun?

Y'all are gonna try to make me believe that a culture which denigrates women as does Islam is not macho?

Islam is not a monolith.

[.Andy]

Y'all are gonna try to make me believe that a culture which denigrates women as does Islam is not macho?

Christianity is pretty mucho.

For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake." (1 Cor. 11:8-9)

"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ," (1 Cor. 11:3).

[skunk]

Islam is not a monolith.Islam does revere a monolith, however.