NSFW: Naked Wizard Taser Brawl at Coachella

[jecapaga]

Not sure if this breaks any forum rules posting this but here goes...

Is it just me or do you think the police could've handled this a little differently? Video follows.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/23/naked-wizard-tazered-at-c_n_190502.html

[nick9191]

Cold day, was it?

[jecapaga]

Cold day, was it?

Was wondering how long it was going to take for that comment. haha ;)

Actually it was very hot so he's got no excuse there unfortunately.

[MacDawg]

Is it just me or do you think the police could've handled this a little differently?

Probably... but maybe the Naked Wizard could have handled it differently and umm put his clothes on... or better yet, not taken them off?

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[yg17]

The dumbass deserved it.

[iJohnHenry]

That is just ugly. :(

[aviddk]

I feel sorry for everyone involved. The crowd, the police officers and even the naked wizard. He was obviously too inebriated on something to have any logical facilities. At least I hope that was his excuse. Not a great way to gain your fifteen minutes.

p.s. I feel sorry for myself for watching the damn video as well.

[Dmac77]

The dumbass deserved it.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Don

[dmr727]

Ugh. That whole video is wrong on just about every level.

[MacDawg]

Ugh. That whole video is wrong on just about every level.

Which level makes the cut?
I couldn't find one

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[samiwas]

The dumbass deserved it.

Exactly my opinion. But I love all the people in the crowd "You're on video! The whole world is watching!" "Can you quote your badge numbers for us" "Freedom of speech!". If I were there I'd kick each of them in the face. (No, not really).

Sorry, you screw off and the police start hounding you, just shut up and do what they say and stop acting like your rights are being infringed upon when you are clearly being a complete douche. I hate attention whores.

[yg17]

Exactly my opinion. But I love all the people in the crowd "You're on video! The whole world is watching!" "Can you quote your badge numbers for us" "Freedom of speech!". If I were there I'd kick each of them in the face. (No, not really).

Sorry, you screw off and the police start hounding you, just shut up and do what they say and stop acting like your rights are being infringed upon when you are clearly being a complete douche. I hate attention whores.

Yeah, I'm normally the one to side with the victim (like the Don't Taze Me Bro! guy should've never been tazed) and I think cops uses their tazers when not necessary way too often, but this guy is resisting arrest and fighting back despite being told many times to cooperate. I'm surprised the cops waited as long as they did to zap him, it looks like they used the tazer as an absolute last resort.


The morons standing around yelling at the cops are just a bunch of stoned hippies with the "****** authority" mindset. Don't pay them much attention

[iCantwait]

ps, this guy has an amazingly small penis

LOL, i love watching people being tazed, makes my day.

fave people to be tazed are hippies 2nd are socialist protesters and 3rd are fat people.

i so wanna get tazed:D

[Abstract]

He was obviously too inebriated on something to have any logical facilities. At least I hope that was his excuse.

There's no excuse. You can't do whatever you want just because you take something to "feel good".



Sorry, you screw off and the police start hounding you, just shut up and do what they say and stop acting like your rights are being infringed upon when you are clearly being a complete douche. I hate attention whores.

And yes, drama queen did deserve it.


Cold day, was it?

If it retracts any further into his body, it'd be a vagina.

[waloshin]

LOL, i love watching people being tazed, makes my day.

fave people to be tazed are hippies 2nd are socialist protesters and 3rd are fat people.

i so wanna get tazed:D

That was the stupidest thing I have ever read! Why would you ever say something like that are you in grade one or something?

[iCantwait]

That was the stupidest thing I have ever read! Why would you ever say something like that are you in grade one or something?

that i wanna get tazed?
so i know what it feels like.

if your talking about who i like seeing tazed its because they're all scum:p

[waloshin]

that i wanna get tazed?
so i know what it feels like.

if your talking about who i like seeing tazed its because they're all scum:p

Wow, that is harsh considering fat people scum?

[evilgEEk]

I think the officers were EXTREMELY patient with this loser. They tried to convince him to get dressed, and even tried to help him. The idiot then decided it would be cute to resist arrest, so they tased him. He continued to resist so they tased him a few more times.

Considering the circumstances, and the naked moron, I think they did an excellent job.

[Ryan1524]

Yeah, I'm normally the one to side with the victim (like the Don't Taze Me Bro! guy should've never been tazed) and I think cops uses their tazers when not necessary way too often, but this guy is resisting arrest and fighting back despite being told many times to cooperate. I'm surprised the cops waited as long as they did to zap him, it looks like they used the tazer as an absolute last resort.


The morons standing around yelling at the cops are just a bunch of stoned hippies with the "****** authority" mindset. Don't pay them much attention

I don't think he had any choice...on account of being blitzed out of his mind. Cops who guard these sort of events typically know there are tons of drugs involved. They just like the idea that it's contained in one area and at least the people there are good spirited (for the most part). So they probly didn't want to make such a scene - just to preserve the fun. I find the cops are never there to ruin the fun in these sort of events. ;)

[iCantwait]

Wow, that is harsh considering fat people scum?

cept them, they're just stupid/uneducated, and respect to the ones trying to turn their life around.

hipppies and socialist protesters are the scum i'm referring to

[Ryan1524]

No offense to anybody overweight, but I think maintaining a more ideal body fat percentage can only be beneficial to a person. There's really no negative to it, and anyone who are too lazy or can't see this are just plain dumb or in denial.

Having said that, I have no problems being friends with overweight people. We all have our vices, and I can easily see how it can be so easy to slip into the habit. I'm guilty of that myself during stressful periods sometimes.

[.Andy]

hipppies and socialist protesters are the scum i'm referring to
Why the vitriol directed at protestors?

[EricNau]

I have little sympathy for this demonstrator, as his behavior was simply unacceptable and he ignored officers orders, for which there is no excuse.

However, I maintain that tasers should not be used where brute force is equally effective. Having the potential to be lethal, tasers need to be treated as semi-lethal weapons; i.e. they should be be used in lieu of lethal force where lethal force would be appropriate, not as a substitute for physical force and pepper spray.

Was this guy being a menace? Yes. Was he resisting arrest? Yes. Was he endangering the lives of the officers or others? No, and therefore it is of my opinion that this tasering was not an appropriate course of action.

[Keniff]

I think his pinky imploded through shame and embarrassment!

At the beginning of the video, check out the girl that walks over to shake his hand, but then watch her face as she looks down at it! :D

It's not a good look! LOL

[thisonechance]

Living in Chicago, I've grown to despise the local police department because of the corruption and unnecessary brutality. However, these officers cleary gave the individual plenty of opportunity to get dressed and return to the festivities. I'm all for expression of the human form and standing up for your rights, but pick your battles! Some things just aren't worth the hassle.

As for the post above about this being the wrong instance in which to use this device, I think the alternatives are no better. Pepper spray or mace can blow in the wind and with such a large crowd around, it could get ugly.

On a side note, a few years ago I was drunk with a few friends and we decided to zap eachother with a stun gun to see how it felt. "Let's record ourselves zapping eachother with her stun gun" seemed like a good idea at the time, haha

[kymac]

was that an extra belly button?

[iJohnHenry]

was that an extra belly button?

A badly botched Bris, actually. :o

[yg17]

I have little sympathy for this demonstrator, as his behavior was simply unacceptable and he ignored officers orders, for which there is no excuse.

However, I maintain that tasers should not be used where brute force is equally effective. Having the potential to be lethal, tasers need to be treated as semi-lethal weapons; i.e. they should be be used in lieu of lethal force where lethal force would be appropriate, not as a substitute for physical force and pepper spray.

Was this guy being a menace? Yes. Was he resisting arrest? Yes. Was he endangering the lives of the officers or others? No, and therefore it is of my opinion that this tasering was not an appropriate course of action.

If more physical force was used (which can also be just as lethal as a tazer) people would be complaining that the officers were beating him like Rodney King. It's really a no win situation for the officers, no matter what they do, someone's going to throw a fit over it.

[Jack Flash]

The mob was particularly disgusting.

The guy had every chance to put his clothes back on and the officers stated they were willing to let him go if he did. He was defiant and resisted arrest after refusing to clothe himself.

I hope the officers did give their badge numbers to those who wanted them, but if any of these officers are suspended with or without pay I will be upset.

[ucfgrad93]

Have to say, the guy got what he deserved.

[brad.c]

I'm not going to judge anybody, except for the cameraman who kept following the naked guy when he bent over.

[dukebound85]

i think the one cop wentway overzealous with the taser

i felt sorry for the guy and think there was a way better way to handle it

[skunk]

In what way was the man being a menace? Was he threatening anyone? Where does all this righteous anger come from? Why is disobeying a policeman such a heinous crime? Policemen are not always right. Those three burly guys could quite easily have simply picked him up and carried him to their vehicle - or even an ambulance, after all it was a music festival and there must have been ambulances or first aid facilities around - if they deemed him such a threat to public safety.

[dukebound85]

In what way was the man being a menace? Was he threatening anyone? Where does all this righteous anger come from? Why is disobeying a policeman such a heinous crime? Policemen are not always right. Those three burly guys could quite easily have simply picked him up and carried him to their vehicle - or even an ambulance, after all it was a music festival and there must have been ambulances or first aid facilities around - if they deemed him such a threat to public safety.

i wholeheartedly agree

all you need to see is how the crowd was disgusted by the police actions.

after the man refused the clothes, all they needed to do was escort them to their car. instead they taser him to what purpose? they didnt put the clothes on him did they? it was just a show of force by the police

[miamiracing]

idiot deserved what he got

[skunk]

idiot deserved what he gotIn what way? All he did was take his clothes off and ignore a policeman.

[Arran]

In what way was the man being a menace?...

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. It'd be interesting to see what happened before the start of the video. Was he actually bothering other people?

I don't know all the facts around this, but it's a rock festival, for pete's sake: People let their hair down and do stupid stuff that embarrasses them later (punishment enough?) And anyway, isn't that part of the attraction of these sort of events? Defying convention. It's not supposed to be Disneyworld.

[dukebound85]

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. It'd be interesting to see what happened before the start of the video. Was he actually bothering other people?

I don't know all the facts around this, but it's a rock festival, for pete's sake: People let their hair down and do stupid stuff that embarrasses them later (punishment enough?) And anyway, isn't that part of the attraction of these sort of events? Defying convention. It's not supposed to be Disneyworld.

he was such a menace that fellow fans came up and shook his hand and gave him water

[Arran]

They were purely motivated by fear. He was terrorising everybody with his willy.

Seemed like security were the ones most terrorized. They seemed quite out of touch with the people they were 'protecting'.

Next thing, they'll be telling the musicians to turn their music down. :)

[Rodimus Prime]

If more physical force was used (which can also be just as lethal as a tazer) people would be complaining that the officers were beating him like Rodney King. It's really a no win situation for the officers, no matter what they do, someone's going to throw a fit over it.

I agree the officers where going to get blamed either way. No matter what they did they where going to get in blamed. From that point of view I would say take the option that requires the least amount of effort and risk of injury to myself. That option would be the tazer. Very effective and I do not risk hurting myself.

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. It'd be interesting to see what happened before the start of the video. Was he actually bothering other people?

I don't know all the facts around this, but it's a rock festival, for pete's sake: People let their hair down and do stupid stuff that embarrasses them later (punishment enough?) And anyway, isn't that part of the attraction of these sort of events? Defying convention. It's not supposed to be Disneyworld.

Well it was indecent exposure which is against the law. Also if I was there the nude guy would of annoyed me and discussed me. Who really wants to see a nude fat guy walking around. It safe that it bothered at least one person. Also it is the cops job to enforce the law which the guy was clearly breaking.

If they used force to carry him to a car or a med tent the cop risk injuring themselves and the guy.

My take on it is they where asking him to get dressed. All he had to do was get dressed and the cops would of left him be and not bothered arresting him. When he did not do that and fought them the cops up the anti and decided to arrest him. He resisted arrest and the cops kept upping the anti to the final point of tazering him.

[skunk]

Well it was indecent exposure which is against the law. Also if I was there the nude guy would of annoyed me and discussed me. Who really wants to see a nude fat guy walking around. It safe that it bothered at least one person. Also it is the cops job to enforce the law which the guy was clearly breaking.Police have discretion to deal with situations as they see fit, proportionately and within the law. This was absurd, violent, disproportionate and unreasonable over-reaction to a minor infringement of public decency.

If they used force to carry him to a car or a med tent the cop risk injuring themselves and the guy.They ended up assaulting him and then tasering him, thus risking injury to all parties anyway. And for what?

[marbles]

out of order going in with the knee like that.That cop escalated the situation unnecessarily resulting in the tazar ....thank god for YT vimeo and the like , now days people can post this on the web and we can all see what really go's on.

Transparent accountability is needed to be overseers. do we have that now with the web....or is it becoming just a quick sensations like this and nothing will ever get done about it.

[jarjarblinks]

The truth of the matter is, the Officer's screwed the part up in the tactical employment of the TASER.

If you can see, the 2 probes (silver needles) sticking out of the man's back were around 10cm apart. For maximum incapacitation, it needs to be 21cm apart. Hence, that was why the Officer needed to go up and use the TASER in stun - drive mode, when he brought the tip of the weapon into contact at the man's skin, at the shoulder blades. That will be to compensate the missing 11 cm thereabouts.

The time lag between the employment and hte TASER --> the man being hand cuffed is too long. Too long. It allows the man to elicit sympathy from the crowd, and allows in too many variables that may turn out of control. Furthermore, the longer the TASER is employed against the man, the larger the risk. He might swallow his tongue, bite his tongue, choke on vomit etc.

All in all, I think the Officers need refresher training.

I've been incapacitated by a TASER before and if used correctly, holy **** man!, it really is something that you'll go through for a thousand bucks again only.

[Jack Flash]

Police have discretion to deal with situations as they see fit, proportionately and within the law. This was absurd, violent, disproportionate and unreasonable over-reaction to a minor infringement of public decency.

Did he refuse to put his clothes on for two and a half minutes whiles the cops calmly talked to him? Did he resist being handcuffed?

While I believe, after rewatching the clip, the cop dropping his knee (appeared not accidental) was uncalled for, the use of the taser was permissible as he got up to run.

[.Andy]

Did he refuse to put his clothes on for two and a half minutes whiles the cops calmly talked to him? Did he resist being handcuffed?

While I believe, after rewatching the clip, the cop dropping his knee (appeared not accidental) was uncalled for, the use of the taser was permissible as he got up to run.
A knee is unacceptable but a 50 000 volt tazing is fine?

[Jack Flash]

A knee is unacceptable but a 50 000 volt tazing is fine?

Guy looked over 210 lbs. Pretty safe for that weight.

[evilgEEk]

And for what?

For breaking the law and resisting arrest. If you don't like it, contact your local legislature and try to get the indecent exposure laws changed.

the cop dropping his knee (appeared not accidental) was uncalled for

It was definitely intentional. It's a common method used to stun the subject, because it makes them "lose their breath" as the expression goes.

As for those saying these "three burly cops could have easily" subdued this guy, perhaps you should watch the video again. They tried to subdue him without the use of the taser, but Mr. Wiz wasn't a small guy, and every time the officers tried to handcuff him he was able to force his own way out of it. That was his CHOICE to resist arrest. At that point he escalated the situation himself. If the officers would have used more physical force then everyone would be screaming "Rodney!".

These officers were extremely patient with this guy.

[Rodimus Prime]

Honestly I am surpised the cops waited as long as they did before going to the taser. They where very calm and they guy just kept pushing them.

2 min before they even started using force after the guy was being as ass.

I feel no sympothy for the Mr. Wiz.

[skunk]

Did he refuse to put his clothes on for two and a half minutes whiles the cops calmly talked to him? Did he resist being handcuffed?Disproportionate force. He wasn't doing any harm. Why would he accept being handcuffed? Between them they could have simply marched him away if they felt threatened by his willy.

[Jack Flash]

Disproportionate force. He wasn't doing any harm. Why should he accept being handcuffed? Between them they could have simply marched him away if they felt threatened by his willy.

He made the decision when he refused to comply with public decency laws and resisted arrest. If you don't like it write your state legislature but we as a society have come to accept social norms and formed laws around them.

[skunk]

He made the decision when he refused to comply with public decency laws and resisted arrest. If you don't like it write your state legislature but we as a society have come to accept social norms and formed laws around them.Thankfully, I'm not a part of you as a society. In our society we seem to accept a fairly routine breaching of "norms" with equanimity, especially at music festivals. I expect they'll be shutting down the Burning Man next. How many volts would you need to bring down a forty foot man made of timber?

[rhett7660]

Disproportionate force. He wasn't doing any harm. Why would he accept being handcuffed? Between them they could have simply marched him away if they felt threatened by his willy.

Good lord you have got to be kidding me.

They went above and beyond what was called for. The dumbass was drunk or high or both. They asked him nicely. Even after being tazed they still asked him nicely to roll over.

Sorry I have to disagree with you on this one.

[samiwas]

Disproportionate force. He wasn't doing any harm. Why would he accept being handcuffed? Between them they could have simply marched him away if they felt threatened by his willy.

Did you not really watch this video? They had a hard time even getting handcuffs on him because he was writhing out of control..how would they just "simply marched him away"??? While I do agree that the force may have been a little overboard, I think this guy got mostly what he deserved. Act like a juvenile punk and break the law (whether you think the law is right or not) then resist arrest and pay the consequences. One of these days, idiots like this will learn that no, you aren't free do do whatever you want at any time. and then the clowns screaming "Free speech!!" hahaha

[.Andy]

Guy looked over 210 lbs. Pretty safe for that weight.
Sorry but "safe" isn't rally a function of weight when it comes to electricity. You can't guess someone's cardiovascular health by weight alone.

Did you not really watch this video? They had a hard time even getting handcuffs on him because he was writhing out of control..how would they just "simply marched him away"??? While I do agree that the force may have been a little overboard, I think this guy got mostly what he deserved. Act like a juvenile punk and break the law (whether you think the law is right or not) then resist arrest and pay the consequences. One of these days, idiots like this will learn that no, you aren't free do do whatever you want at any time. and then the clowns screaming "Free speech!!" hahaha
You'll also note that the situation only escallated when the police got involved.

[Jack Flash]

You'll also note that the situation only escallated when the police got involved.

Looked pretty calm until he refused for several minutes to reclothe himself at the officers' request. He could have cooperated when they then attempted to handcuff him but he didn't. He could have stopped struggling when he went to the ground but again, he didn't.

The guy decided what happened.

[Jack Flash]

Sorry but "safe" isn't rally a function of weight when it comes to electricity. You can't guess someone's cardiovascular health by weight alone.]

Sorry but statistically they are non-lethal.

[.Andy]

Looked pretty calm until he refused for several minutes to reclothe himself at the officers' request. He could have cooperated when they then attempted to handcuff him but he didn't. He could have stopped struggling when he went to the ground but again, he didn't.

The guy decided what happened.
It takes two to tango. Although it was his actions it's still partly the fault of the police that it ended up as it did. He didn't drop the knee or tase himself. There are much better ways to deal with a drunk/drugged guys that aren't a risk to anybody or themselves than confrontation. Especially by confrontation by guys in uniform.

Sorry but statistically they are non-lethal.
Except for the statistics of the people that have been killed.

[decksnap]

This looks by the book to me. These officers were extremely patient. You just can't resist arrest and not expect your actions to force an escalation in the tactics of restraint. That is what the tazer is there for, unless you prefer them to use the clubs.

[decksnap]

You'll also note that the situation only escallated when the police got involved.

That makes no sense. He was breaking the law to begin with, which is why they were obliged to get involved. That is what we pay them for.

[.Andy]

That is what the tazer is there for, unless you prefer them to use the clubs.
Or alternatively no weapon at all and just leave the guy alone. Nudity at a music festival never hurt anyone.

That makes no sense.
So you think without police involvement the situation would have had the same outcome?

He was breaking the law to begin with, which is why they were obliged to get involved. That is what we pay them for.
Indeed. However I don't pay them to knee a guy nor tase people at the drop of a hat. I don't consider their action to be very proportional to the "crime" at hand. Such an outcome could have easily been avoided.

[decksnap]

It sounds like your issues are with the laws themselves and not these officers' performance.

I've seen plenty of police misconduct tapes. I don't think this is one of them.

[.Andy]

It sounds like your issues are with the laws themselves and not these officers' performance.

I've seen plenty of police misconduct tapes. I don't think this is one of them.
It might not be misconduct however it's a disgusting outcome to a situation that was initially not a danger to anyone. Hopefully at the very least the police can review their protocols for such situations. There is no way they can feel proud of their actions or the way they handled this one.

[maestro55]

Who the frick cares that the guy got naked? The cops obviously had too much time on their hand to be hassling some guy who decided to take his clothes off. Then used excessive force, first off the tasers shouldn't be allowed. If he has a heart condition that could have killed him. He deserved it some here are shouting. Certainly he could have behaved differently but it looked like a fairly peaceful gatherng and it looks like things only got out of hand because he decided to take his clothes off and the police decided that him being naked was the worst thing in the world.

The audience should have all started taking their clothes off.

[miamiracing]

In what way? All he did was take his clothes off and ignore a policeman.

well he was on something. first he touched one of the officers on his shoulder and kept knocking on him lol

second, he does not listen to the officers and was kinda resisting..

gj to the police, if i would be one of these 3 i would take my stick and ram it into his knee's to make him fall on the ground ;)

[iJohnHenry]

Some "recreation" drugs render the taser ineffective.

[Iscariot]

Whether or not what the man was doing was "harming" anyone is not the basis for it's legality. He was breaking the law, and it was the officer's job to stop that. That it was a music festival is not cause to simply ignore lawbreaking.

Having said that, the officers did their job extremely poorly. Whether or not what the man was doing was "harming" anyone is the basis for determining how to proceed. I can see no valid reason that three officers shouldn't have been able to restrain and subdue an unarmed and naked man without the use of this kind of force.

[NightGeometry]

It seems really shocking that a lot of the North Americans here seem to agree with the force the police used.

The most disgusting thing on the video is that people just stood around jeering, why didn't the public step in to stop this?

[Jack Flash]

It seems really shocking that a lot of the North Americans here seem to agree with the force the police used.

The most disgusting thing on the video is that people just stood around jeering, why didn't the public step in to stop this?

It's really shocking that officers doing their job are being criticized so heavily.

[CarlisleUnited]

What I find most shocking is how small this guy's penis is :o

EDIT: Hadn't see the taser bit yet, they did seem to go slightly overboard with it

[.Andy]

It's really shocking that officers doing their job are being criticized so heavily.
Violence should always be criticised heavily. Irrespective of who it comes from.

[Jack Flash]

Violence should always be criticised heavily. Irrespective of who it comes from.

Let me rephrase it. The officers enforced our law. They did what we pay them to do. Wizard did not obey and resisted arrest afterwards. The consequences of his actions were made clear through the officer's use of force.

If you don't like what you see, write your congressman. Trying to internet-lynch these officers like those in the mob were suggesting is wrong.

[.Andy]

Let me rephrase it. The officers enforced our law. They did what we pay them to do.
Yes you pay them to enforce the law. However one also pays them to will apply the law judiciously and take the initiative to avoid violence or escallating a situation.

Wizard did not obey and resisted arrest afterwards. The consequences of his actions were made clear through the officer's use of force.
And what is debatable is if that force was ever necessary. We don't have a lead in to the confrontation but the best course of action would be to not have it reach that point at all. Getting the guys friends to talk to him. Getting a concert offical to talk to him. Getting one officer talking to him. Having three officers surround him amidst the jeers and encouragement from the crowd is a recipe for disaster.

Trying to internet-lynch these officers like those in the mob were suggesting is wrong.
Nobody is "internet-lynching" anyone. You are trying to dismiss reasonable criticism with hyperbole.

[Rodimus Prime]

And what is debatable is if that force was ever necessary. We don't have a lead in to the confrontation but the best course of action would be to not have it reach that point at all. Getting the guys friends to talk to him. Getting a concert offical to talk to him. Getting one officer talking to him. Having three officers surround him amidst the jeers and encouragement from the crowd is a recipe for disaster.


Well lets see off you list.

Well first off the video starts off with the cops commonly asking him to put on his clothing. So it is safe to assume the cops did not start anything harsh. Just mostly nicely asking the guy to obey the law. That is simple enough

Guys friends are clearly worthless from the video seeing as the crowd was egging him on to keep going that way so that choice is gone.

Concert official is more than likely paying the cops to provide security and keep the order so in a since the cops are the officials and they are keeping the order. Also the official are going to tell the cops to just arrest him not anything else.

3 cops to keep the order. They where trying to get the guy out of there before everyone started a riot and started doing it. Cops did their jobs.

[.Andy]

Well first off the video starts off with the cops commonly asking him to put on his clothing. So it is safe to assume the cops did not start anything harsh. Just mostly nicely asking the guy to obey the law. That is simple enough.
I don't think it's safe to assume anything. As I said three large cops surrounding a guy is just going to be confrontational in any circumstance. It doesn't take three cops to ask someone nicely to get dressed.

Guys friends are clearly worthless from the video seeing as the crowd was egging him on to keep going that way so that choice is gone.
They were "worthless" once the cops got involved. Who knows before that if a quick word to them to ask him to pop on his clothes or face ejection wouldn't have worked beforehand. Or if they took him outside/away from the crowd. We have no idea if this was tried.

Concert official is more than likely paying the cops to provide security and keep the order so in a since the cops are the officials and they are keeping the order. Also the official are going to tell the cops to just arrest him not anything else.
:confused: Concert officials have plenty of scope to ask people quietly to behave or the cops will be involved. Again we have no idea if this was tried.

They where trying to get the guy out of there before everyone started a riot and started doing it.
A situation that wouldn't have eventuated if the cops didn't get involved no?

Cops did their jobs.
But did they do it well? At the start we had a naked guy who doesn't appear to be a risk to anyone. By the end of the altercation we have an officer dropping his knee into a guy, a man being tased multiple times, and an anrgy and aggrieved crowd.

There were plenty of ways to treat this situation to avoid such an unnecessary violent outcome. They "did their jobs" but should still consider this event a failure of protocol.

[iJon]

Thankfully, I'm not a part of you as a society. In our society we seem to accept a fairly routine breaching of "norms" with equanimity, especially at music festivals. I expect they'll be shutting down the Burning Man next. How many volts would you need to bring down a forty foot man made of timber?

Couldn't have said it better myself. I've spent the past 4 years attending many music and arts festivals of all sizes and agree with what you say. Whenever I go to an event like this I realize that I'm probably going to see some interesting things and normal rules don't always apply. For me this is what makes the events so fun.

I've seen naked people get on stage at various festivals and the police always calmly just led them off stage and dealt with it there. The police are also trained to realize that many people will be on substances and act accordingly.

If I had to guess, a naked man was probably one of the least of crazy things people saw at Coachella.

jon

[iJohnHenry]

Guys friends are clearly worthless from the video seeing as the crowd was egging him on to keep going that way so that choice is gone.

Excellent observation.

Security should have tasered the friends, not the guy himself.

[maestro55]

3 cops to keep the order. They where trying to get the guy out of there before everyone started a riot and started doing it. Cops did their jobs.

There wouldn't have been a riot if the cops just let him be, and the bottom line is the problem. The cops did their jobs, and cops are authorized to use force, and that is the problem when they use force for non-violent offenders. Now we didn't see any beforehand video of what it was like before the cops showed up, so we don't know what the guy might have been doing. However, I still believe they got violent with the guy when they should have been protecting the city from real violence and not some guy walking around in the nude.

[evilgEEk]

I don't think it's safe to assume anything.

Now that I agree with! :)

You continue to allude to this freak being innocent. How do you know that? Is there another video showing what happened prior to the one linked to in this thread?

You have no idea what this guy was doing prior to the officers intervening, but you're assuming he was just calmly walking about enjoying himself.

Just as you're assuming he was simply an innocent naked guy, I'm going to assume he was running about flaunting his junk to people who then summoned the authorities.

Neither one of us can substantiate each others assumptions.

What I do know is this guy broke the law and then repeatedly resisted arrest.

[.Andy]

You continue to allude to this freak being innocent.
I have done nothing of the sort.

[JLatte]

I've been to Coachella several times except the past 2 years. This guy deserved what he got considering resisting arrest numerous times, etc. The law enforcement at Coachella is almost always really laid back and awesome considering the size of the crowds over 3 days. That guy probably was just hot, decided to make a scene and took off all his clothes. He's lucky the police were that lenient with him and didn't slap him with public nudity charges and instead tried to convince him to get dressed repeatedly.

Anyways yeah, the weather was definitely not cold, if anything it was probably 100+ F as it usually always is there. Very sad little pecker.

[evilgEEk]

I have done nothing of the sort.

Hmmm.... ;)

You'll also note that the situation only escallated when the police got involved.

Or alternatively no weapon at all and just leave the guy alone. Nudity at a music festival never hurt anyone.

At the start we had a naked guy who doesn't appear to be a risk to anyone.

A situation that wouldn't have eventuated if the cops didn't get involved no?

Your assumption is that this poor naked Wizard was just minding his own naked business until the officers arrived.

Neither one of us know what happened prior to the video.


EDIT: Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I think I'm done arguing over an inebriated naked Wizard with extremely small genitalia. ;)

[.Andy]

Hmmm.... ;)
None of what you quoted at is me alluding that he is innocent :confused:.

Your assumption is that this poor naked Wizard was just minding his own naked business until the officers arrived.
That's not my assumption at all. What is clear is that the officers got involved and the situation escallated with the result that there was violence that I consider completely excessive and avoidable.

[skunk]

I think I'm done arguing over an inebriated naked Wizard with extremely small genitalia. ;)Frankly, I don't see what the size of his genitals has to do with anything.

[Jack Flash]

Frankly, I don't see what the size of his genitals has to do with anything.

Just a means of identification.

[Mr. Giver '94]

The dumbass deserved it.

Ugh. That whole video is wrong on just about every level.

My thoughts exactly.



My friend actually went to Coachella but didn't say anything about this...

[Rodimus Prime]

Well lets remove all assumption and go with some facts.

Fact 1. The guy was breaking the law.

Fact 2. He disobeyed request from cops to put his clothing back on.

Fact 3. He resisted arrested

Those 3 things put in a row do not leave much room for the guys defense

[dukebound85]

Well lets remove all assumption and go with some facts.

Fact 1. The guy was breaking the law.

Fact 2. He disobeyed request from cops to put his clothing back on.

Fact 3. He resisted arrested

Those 3 things put in a row do not leave much room for the guys defense
there is quite the jump between 2 and 3.......

[rhett7660]

So.. andy.. I have read your posts.... I am wondering.

At what point do you think the police should get involved? Or do you think they should turn a blind eye to this type of behavior, because it is at a music festival? Are we now supposed to tell the police to not enforce the law at a music festival because it is a music festival?

I am curious as to what point you enforce the law? Just maybe their was a person who didn't appreciate a naked person and summoned the police over to take care of it? So now you have a person who is offended and wants the police to do something. The person is clearly breaking the law, you have a person who sees and knows the law is being broken and now the police are involved.

It seems to me that any force used to take someone into custody for doing something that is against the law does not sit well with you.

I am just curious as to what your take on police using force to enforce the law?

[Ryan1524]

I question authority all the time, but in this case, I think the police did their job superbly.

[.Andy]

So.. andy.. I have read your posts.... I am wondering.

At what point do you think the police should get involved?
As soon as reasonably required. i.e. straight away if people are at risk. In such a case as this only when more reasonable avenues are exhausted. Or if they do get involved initially do eveything possible to avoid an aggressive confrontation situation.

Or do you think they should turn a blind eye to this type of behavior, because it is at a music festival?
Largely yes. It's a music festival. An occasional streak or frank nudity doesn't offend me or cause disruption. If however the nude person(s) end up being a menace/assaulting people/a danger to themselves it's a different case altogether.

Are we now supposed to tell the police to not enforce the law at a music festival because it is a music festival?
Not at all. They can easily be judicious with the law though. For instance a naked guy dancing at a music festival is of far less concern than say, a naked guy running around a primary school or local shops.

I am curious as to what point you enforce the law? Just maybe their was a person who didn't appreciate a naked person and summoned the police over to take care of it? So now you have a person who is offended and wants the police to do something. The person is clearly breaking the law, you have a person who sees and knows the law is being broken and now the police are involved.
I think you're getting confused with my concern. It's not a question of enforcing the law, it's a question of enforcing it in an intelligent way that doesn't escallate a situation. I just think avoiding confrontation as far as possible results in a far better outcome in such a circumstance where people are revved up.

It seems to me that any force used to take someone into custody for doing something that is against the law does not sit well with you.
Only if it is disproportionate to the "crime" in question or unnecessary.

I am just curious as to what your take on police using force to enforce the law?
Only when absolutely necessary. Especially when it comes to using weapons that could cause injury or be lethal.

[Iscariot]

Largely yes. It's a music festival. An occasional streak or frank nudity doesn't offend me or cause disruption. If however the nude person(s) end up being a menace/assaulting people/a danger to themselves it's a different case altogether.

While I agree with virtually everything else you've said, I have to disagree here. "Because it's a music festival" is far from a good enough reason to break the law. We also don't know the situation here… did the officers show up straight away? Did they single him out based on their own observation of a naked individual? Was security specifically called by other patrons of the festival? The information we have does not point towards a situation where it was acceptable to violate public decency laws.

[.Andy]

While I agree with virtually everything else you've said, I have to disagree here. "Because it's a music festival" is far from a good enough reason to break the law.
It's not an excuse to break the law however it's good enough reason to use some discretion with it's application. From Woodstock and probably beforehand nudity has been a common sight at festivals. I've never seen police falling over themselves to arrest shouldered women proudly flashing their breasts (thankfully). Nor have I seen them caring about anyone streaking or getting nude for that matter. Would you call the police to record a breach of the law if someone streaked at a local sports match?

We also don't know the situation here… did the officers show up straight away? Did they single him out based on their own observation of a naked individual? Was security specifically called by other patrons of the festival? The information we have does not point towards a situation where it was acceptable to violate public decency laws.
I agree with this. We know nothing of what has happened before. However it doesn't appear he's carried out a most heinous crime. Otherwise the police would have been a little more keen to apprehend him.

[Iscariot]

Would you call the police to record a breach of the law if someone streaked at a local sports match?

Would I? No. If someone else did, would I expect the police to do something about it? Yes. There are far too many scenarios where doing nothing would not have been an appropriate response for us to dismiss this as a case where the police should simply have turned a blind eye. I agree that we can rightly say "they should not have done that", but I do not believe we can rightly say "they should not have done anything".

[.Andy]

Would I? No.
That's good :D! Because someone with a similar build to me did an undie run (too shy to get the goods out) at the local premier league football final in 1998. The crowd love it and it was very liberating.

I agree that we can rightly say "they should not have done that", but I do not believe we can rightly say "they should not have done anything".
Indeed. But they possibly could have handled the situation much better. The outcome as it stands is embarrassing. And horrific.

[ikermalli]

cept them, they're just stupid/uneducated, and respect to the ones trying to turn their life around.

hipppies and socialist protesters are the scum i'm referring to

Why would you say they are all stupid/uneducated? Yeah, they know they need to drop some pounds, but their lifestyles could be hectic, except for the really obese people, not just those who are a bit overweight, those obese people could drop pounds fast, if they just started walking for like 20 minutes a day and then move to jogging

[marbles]

cept them, they're just stupid/uneducated, and respect to the ones trying to turn their life around.

hipppies and socialist protesters are the scum i'm referring to

Only one uneducated is someone who slates people they have never met.

Nazi tendencies?

[Lord Blackadder]

I think you're getting confused with my concern. It's not a question of enforcing the law, it's a question of enforcing it in an intelligent way that doesn't escallate a situation. I just think avoiding confrontation as far as possible results in a far better outcome in such a circumstance where people are revved up.

First off, I'm assuming that this gentleman's public nudity was breach of the law, as I can;t think how it wouldn't be at such a festival. If it turns out it wasn't the situation gets a lot more complicated and without more information I think we are arguing in a vacuum of information

If he's not allowed to be naked, the cops are there to enforce the law. If he refuses to put his clothes back on, it's the job of the police to put a stop to his exhibitionism. The fact that the incident took place in a rollicking crowd of people who were under the influence makes the situation less predictable, and may have influenced the officers' course of action.

I don't support the notion of policemen tasering people at the drop of a hat, but this guy was being physically uncooperative. You have emphasized the notions of avoiding confrontation and not using any kind of weapons. Frankly, I think that is an unrealistic approach, because if you don't arrest this guy, your only other option is to let him run around naked. And that is against the law. He obviously didn't listen to the officers when they attempted to persuade him to put his clothes back on. Either change the law to allow public nudity, or accept the fact that it's the policeman's job to enforce the law, physically if necessary.

[.Andy]

First off, I'm assuming that this gentleman's public nudity was breach of the law, as I can;t think how it wouldn't be at such a festival. If it turns out it wasn't the situation gets a lot more complicated and without more information I think we are arguing in a vacuum of information

If he's not allowed to be naked, the cops are there to enforce the law. If he refuses to put his clothes back on, it's the job of the police to put a stop to his exhibitionism. The fact that the incident took place in a rollicking crowd of people who were under the influence makes the situation less predictable, and may have influenced the officers' course of action.

I don't support the notion of policemen tasering people at the drop of a hat, but this guy was being physically uncooperative. You have emphasized the notions of avoiding confrontation and not using any kind of weapons. Frankly, I think that is an unrealistic approach, because if you don't arrest this guy, your only other option is to let him run around naked. And that is against the law. He obviously didn't listen to the officers when they attempted to persuade him to put his clothes back on. Either change the law to allow public nudity, or accept the fact that it's the policeman's job to enforce the law, physically if necessary.
There is always an alternative to violence. Dopping a knee into the man and having him on the ground being tased multiple times was not the inevitable outcome of the incident.

edit: violence/force of this calibre should only be used when absolutely necessary - i.e. when the man is a danger to others or himself. It should not be used to merely enforce the law. The law in this case isn't so important that force be used that could have resulted in a death.

[iJohnHenry]

The hand pinning the hair to the ground is an interesting tactic. Hadn't seen that one before.

Good for long-haired hippy freaks. :rolleyes:

[srl7741]

This is one of the most amusing threads I've read in a long time and yes I've read each post and watched the video.

[Iscariot]

I don't support the notion of policemen tasering people at the drop of a hat, but this guy was being physically uncooperative. You have emphasized the notions of avoiding confrontation and not using any kind of weapons. Frankly, I think that is an unrealistic approach, because if you don't arrest this guy, your only other option is to let him run around naked. And that is against the law. He obviously didn't listen to the officers when they attempted to persuade him to put his clothes back on. Either change the law to allow public nudity, or accept the fact that it's the policeman's job to enforce the law, physically if necessary.

I don't think the force used was appropriate to the situation. While the man was being uncooperative, his attempts at resisting arrest were pretty mild. I think that with some incentivizing, some herding and some prodding he could have been moved to a first aid tent or squad car, where his removal from the cheering of the crowds might've made it possible to calm him down. I agree with you on the premise that the police were most likely obliged to act, but this was certainly not the correct action.

[Ugg]

Death by disgustingly obese trio of cops would not be fun. I wonder if a jury would award extra damages for every pound a cop is overweight. When that one obese ahole dropped onto the wizard with all his weight, if the wizard had died, I would have convicted the cop of murder.

The wizard was out of line but given the huge crowd that was gathering, the cops potentially endangered people's lives by tazing him so much. The crowd could easily have turned nasty.

The sight of those obese cops was absolutely disgusting.

[paddy]

Over the top. Those lads were well able to escort that guy away relatively quietly without causing a scene like that.

[Jack Flash]

Death by disgustingly obese trio of cops would not be fun. I wonder if a jury would award extra damages for every pound a cop is overweight. When that one obese ahole dropped onto the wizard with all his weight, if the wizard had died, I would have convicted the cop of murder.

The wizard was out of line but given the huge crowd that was gathering, the cops potentially endangered people's lives by tazing him so much. The crowd could easily have turned nasty.

The sight of those obese cops was absolutely disgusting.

What's next? Only blonde haired, blue eyed cops? :rolleyes:

[skunk]

What's next? Only blonde haired, blue eyed cops? :rolleyes:Relevance?

[Jack Flash]

Relevance?

A big deal is being made about the weight of the officers.

Frankly, I don't see what the size of his genitals has to do with anything.

Parallel.

[skunk]

A big deal is being made about the weight of the officers.Well if they're going to throw their weight around, they should be aware of the potential repercussions.

[Peterkro]

Odd country,you can tasered and beaten for being naked and none of the hordes of people in the vicinity does anything about it.

[skunk]

Parallel.Not really: that was assigning blame to the victim by demeaning him. The police are not the victims here.

[skunk]

Odd country,you can tasered and beaten for being naked and none of the hordes of people in the vicinity does anything about it.Oh, but they did: almost every single one was filming it for their later amusement. Reportage is important.

[Jack Flash]

Well if they're going to throw their weight around, they should be aware of the potential repercussions.

No reason to assume they aren't.

[Jack Flash]

Not really: that was assigning blame to the victim by demeaning him. The police are not the victims here.

You assume that there is a victim. In my eyes I see no victim.

The references to the officers' weight were certainly intended to demean them.

[skunk]

You assume that there is a victim. In my eyes I see no victim.There was only one victim of assault.

[FX120]

There is always an alternative to violence. Dopping a knee into the man and having him on the ground being tased multiple times was not the inevitable outcome of the incident.

edit: violence/force of this calibre should only be used when absolutely necessary - i.e. when the man is a danger to others or himself. It should not be used to merely enforce the law. The law in this case isn't so important that force be used that could have resulted in a death.

What was the alternative? All three officers offered the man plenty of time and chances to comply with their verbal commands, and he did not do so.

[Jack Flash]

There was only one victim of assault.

No, there was a non-compliant offender who resisted arrest and was subdued accordingly. Just because the police act doesn't make is assault.

[skunk]

What was the alternative? All three officers offered the man plenty of time and chances to comply with their verbal commands, and he did not do so.Plenty of alternatives have been suggested above. The assault was unnecessary.

[Jack Flash]

Plenty of alternatives have been suggested above. The assault was unnecessary.

There are plenty of 'what if...' scenarios. What we have to go by is the non-cooperative and defiant behavior the obviously intoxicated man demonstrated. I have no reason to believe he calmly would have been lead away.

So, short of the police not doing the job they are obliged to do, what's the alternative? The officers attempted to handcuff him, presumably to lead him away to whatever destination I imagine you'd want the man to go but he resisted.

[FX120]

Plenty of alternatives have been suggested above. The assault was unnecessary.

And none of them seemed to be very realistic.

If he isn't going to put his clothes back on, and he can't stay, then he has to be removed.

He was pretty clearly out of his mind and under the influence of something considering that he was strong enough to hold off three large officers from cuffing him initially, and even after the taser was used he was *still* strong enough to resist being rolled over.

[iJohnHenry]

Lots of arm-chair security around MR on this one.

I would personally just let the idiot wander about, until he embarrassed himself sufficiently. But that action was probably not in their mandate.

Would opt for a Iaculum, and a fork-lift, if necessary.

At what point do you quarterbacks think that the security people should themselves become victims of this idiot?? A trip to the hospital, and a career-ending injury??

[skunk]

I would personally just let the idiot wander about, until he embarrassed himself sufficiently.Your most sensible suggestion yet. :)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I'm no exhibitionist or anything, I cringe at the idea of being out in public naked, but I've never understood the importance of clothing in our society. If someone wants to walk around naked why is that a big deal? In what way does that harm anyone?

There is no logical reason that the wizard should have been treated so poorly, sure it's illegal to be naked in public, but that's an illogical law.

*I'm ready for several posts after this saying that it harms them because they have to look at gross naked people. Let's face it not everyone is Britney Spears.

**I'm ready for several posts saying that Britney Spears is unattractive.

[skunk]

Let's face it not everyone is Britney Spears.Thank the FSM for that.

[Peterkro]

I would personally just let the idiot wander about, until he embarrassed himself sufficiently.

You'll be getting a reputation for making sense if you keep this up.:p

[iJohnHenry]

Your most sensible suggestion yet. :)

Come back next Spring. I'm due to flower again. :D

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Thank the FSM for that.
rAmen

[Ugg]

Y
The references to the officers' weight were certainly intended to demean them.

The references to the blue blimps were an indication that the country is in a sorry state when its men in blue need a tent maker to provide them uniforms. Perhaps that's why tazers have become so prevalent these days, the people using them are so out of shape they are unable to restrain people without them.

They have demeaned themselves, not I.

[Jack Flash]

The references to the blue blimps were an indication that the country is in a sorry state when its men in blue need a tent maker to provide them uniforms. Perhaps that's why tazers have become so prevalent these days, the people using them are so out of shape they are unable to restrain people without them.

They have demeaned themselves, not I.

I see you've figured it out: When all else fails, deflect. :rolleyes:

Mr. Wizzard wasn't looking too much like 5% body fat, either. You have a problem with him?

[iJohnHenry]

He seemed quite svelt in some areas.

And are they cops, or merely rent-a-cops??

[Lord Blackadder]

There is always an alternative to violence.

True in the strictest sense. But the mere presence of alternatives does not in any way guarantee that they are realistic or desirable.

Dopping a knee into the man and having him on the ground being tased multiple times was not the inevitable outcome of the incident.

I agree.

edit: violence/force of this calibre should only be used when absolutely necessary - i.e. when the man is a danger to others or himself. It should not be used to merely enforce the law. The law in this case isn't so important that force be used that could have resulted in a death.

I agree, with the caveat that any time physical force (from a simple handcuffing up through tasers) is used there is a chance that injury or death can occur. The possibilities are as endless as the number of incidents. I don't see this alone as being a good argument against the use of force. Otherwise we begin to take the concept of liability to what is in my opinion an extreme.

I don't think the force used was appropriate to the situation. While the man was being uncooperative, his attempts at resisting arrest were pretty mild. I think that with some incentivizing, some herding and some prodding he could have been moved to a first aid tent or squad car, where his removal from the cheering of the crowds might've made it possible to calm him down. I agree with you on the premise that the police were most likely obliged to act, but this was certainly not the correct action.

As I said above, I agree that the force used was excessive. However, I think the police would have been perfectly within their rights to have physically removed him from the festival and placed him in custody until he cooled down. The taser is for suspects who attack officers or other people or pose some other immediate threat. I would say that was not the case here based on what we see in the video. Important factors we don't know about include whether he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs (not obvious in the video, but also impossible to judge), whether he'd been involved in previous incidents at the show and what kind of rules the officers were operating under. It does look like an excessive application of force to me though.

The references to the blue blimps were an indication that the country is in a sorry state when its men in blue need a tent maker to provide them uniforms. Perhaps that's why tazers have become so prevalent these days, the people using them are so out of shape they are unable to restrain people without them.

They have demeaned themselves, not I.

I don't see this as any more relevant than the references being made to the suspect's penis size. Had the incident involved a well-endowed man and three incredibly fit officers the core issues would remain unchanged...

[rhett7660]

As soon as reasonably required. i.e. straight away if people are at risk. In such a case as this only when more reasonable avenues are exhausted. Or if they do get involved initially do eveything possible to avoid an aggressive confrontation situation.


Largely yes. It's a music festival. An occasional streak or frank nudity doesn't offend me or cause disruption. If however the nude person(s) end up being a menace/assaulting people/a danger to themselves it's a different case altogether.


Not at all. They can easily be judicious with the law though. For instance a naked guy dancing at a music festival is of far less concern than say, a naked guy running around a primary school or local shops.


I think you're getting confused with my concern. It's not a question of enforcing the law, it's a question of enforcing it in an intelligent way that doesn't escallate a situation. I just think avoiding confrontation as far as possible results in a far better outcome in such a circumstance where people are revved up.


Only if it is disproportionate to the "crime" in question or unnecessary.


Only when absolutely necessary. Especially when it comes to using weapons that could cause injury or be lethal.

Fair enough. Thank you.

[Prof.]

LOL at the guy crouching down and taking a pic of the guys penis.

oh and DAAAAAAAAAAYUMMMMMMMMMMMM he's small.

kbai.