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skunk
Apr 26, 2009, 07:51 PM
Taliban gunmen have been filmed executing a surprised couple whom they repeatedly shot for the alleged crime of adultery.

By Saeed Shah in Islamabad
Last Updated: 1:05PM BST 26 Apr 2009

Their deaths were squalid, riddled with bullets in a field near their home by Taliban gunmen as the execution was captured on a mobile telephone.
In footage which is being watched with horror by Pakistanis, the couple try to flee when they realise what is about to happen. But a gunman casually shoots the man and then the woman in the back with a burst of gunfire, leaving them bleeding in the dirt.

Moments later, when others in the execution party shout out that they are still alive, he returns to coldly finish them with a few more rounds.
Their "crime" was an alleged affair in their remote mountain village controlled by militants in an area that was only recently under the government's sway. It was the kind of barbarity that has become increasingly familiar across Pakistan as the Taliban tide has spread.
But this time, with black-turbaned gunmen almost at the gates of Islamabad, the rare footage has shown urban Pakistanis what could now await them.
Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff, has warned that Islamic extremists could take over the nation.
In the past few days the footage has circulated among Pakistanis who usually show little interest in the rough ways of the distant frontier regions.
They have now started to wake up to the fear that al-Qaeda-linked rebels from the frontier could take over their nation.

The killings happened in Hangu district, in North West Frontier Province, about two hours drive from the regional capital Peshawar. The punishment was administered by a local group of the Pakistani Taliban, the Islamic militia which has swept across the NWFP towards the capital Islamabad.
Last week, the Taliban had reached within 60 miles of Islamabad, in Buner district. Their takeover sparked panic in the West, which was already appalled by a peace deal that the government had signed this month with Taliban in adjacent the Swat valley.
In an extraordinary move, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, called on the people of Pakistan to defy their government, saying they "need to speak out forcefully against a policy that is ceding more and more territory to the insurgents".
The Taliban had agreed a withdrawal, in the last couple of days, to their stronghold of Swat. That will scarcely make the government and elite in the capital Islamabad feel much safer, as Swat is only 100 miles from them.
"The Taliban are steady and confident, the government is weak and faltering," said Pervez Hoodbhoy, a professor at Islamabad's Quaid-e-Azam University and one of Pakistan's leading intellectuals.
"A Taliban victory will enslave our women, destroy Pakistan's rich historical and cultural heritage, make education and science impossible, and make the lives of its citizens impossibly difficult. Some are already contemplating an exodus."
Pakistan today stands on a knife-edge, threatened with anarchy. The desperate deal signed with the Taliban in Swat looks set to fall apart. The result will almost certainly be violence. An army convoy heading into Swat on Saturday morning was stopped by the Taliban and forced to turn back, in a naked display of their power.
They seem to have been only emboldened by the peace agreement. Many believe that a bloody military operation now looks inevitable,
For those in areas falling under Taliban control, their harsh rule is terrifying.
An SOS text message sent out on Friday by a terrified local resident, in an area of Swat called Bahrain, says that the Taliban have established total control. Asking not be named for fear of reprisal, he said that they have set up check posts at the entrance to Bahrain, from where they kidnap those they want, including young women.
"They've even warned the local schools to close the girl classes or face dire consequences. Yet the government says its writ is in Swat."
Another Swat resident said: "Every day I see armed Taliban move around freely. At the time of prayer, if they see anyone in his shop or walking about, they whip him with a stick."
The Pakistani Taliban, a copy of the Afghan extremist movement, have long controlled the tribal area along the Afghan border, which is a sanctuary for militants, including al-Qaeda. But it is their march into the heart of the country that has horrified ordinary Pakistanis, and the wider world. And the threat comes not just from the Taliban to the west. Islamic extremists, who are not part of the Taliban, are already entrenched in Islamabad and across the Punjab, the most populous province, seemingly ready to surface when their moment comes.
Islamabad's defences are being hurriedly fortified, with paramilitary troops stationed on the Margalla Hills, which overlook the city from the West. In the capital, there are thousands of followers of the radical Red Mosque, where there are now open calls for Islamic revolution at the weekly Friday prayers.
"The Taliban will not stop at Swat. They will come towards Islamabad," said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst based in Lahore. "If the army is to take action against them, it is going to be a really bloody battle. And then civil government will be knocked out."
"Extremist groups based in Islamabad will move from within and they (Taliban) will build pressure from outside."
The footage Pakistanis have been watching shows them what they could expect.
A local journalist was invited to witness the execution, who filmed it with his mobile phone for a Pakistani channel, Dawn News. The Sunday Telegraph is showing the footage in the West for the first time.
There were no names for the two victims.
"Using the media is part of their (the Taliban's) psychological warfare," said Imtiaz Gul, chairman of Centre for Research and Security Studies, an independent think tank in Islamabad. "This way, they inject fear into the minds of people who might oppose them, keeping the majority silent."
After the couple were shot, the family were told to take their bodies away for burial. The punishment was administered by a local group of the Pakistani Taliban linked to warlord Baitullah Mehsud.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/5220532/Taliban-gunmen-shooting-couple-dead-for-adultery-caught-on-camera.html

The NATO engagement in Afghanistan is messy enough already. If it becomes even more difficult to resupply by land, it's in real danger of failing completely. Besides which, the situation in Kashmir and the Pakistani nuclear arsenal are at risk. This could be terminal.



Burnsey
Apr 26, 2009, 07:56 PM
Absolutely sickening and disgusting. These people should all go to hell for the immense evil within them. Adultery is a crime but coldly murdering people is not? Despicable. Send in a few apache attack helicopters and make short work of these monsters.

Sorry this has made me extremely angry, I can go on but the words I need to use to describe this aren't allowed on this forum.

iJohnHenry
Apr 26, 2009, 08:04 PM
Absolutely sickening and disgusting.

Such is Sharia Law. Get used to it.

They make the Spanish Inquisition look like gardeners.

This could be terminal.

<updates will> :p

Burnsey
Apr 26, 2009, 08:07 PM
Such is Sharia Law. Get used to it.



<updates will> :p

Sharia law has punishment for cold blooded murder as well. The Taliban have their own sick version of things.

iJohnHenry
Apr 26, 2009, 08:18 PM
Then obviously they don't consider the execution of these miscreants as murder.

Burnsey
Apr 26, 2009, 08:45 PM
Then obviously they don't consider the execution of these miscreants as murder.

Of course they dont, they're the ones doing the execution.

iJohnHenry
Apr 26, 2009, 08:47 PM
They are writing the rules at the moment, thanks to a weak Pakistani government.

skunk
Apr 27, 2009, 02:16 AM
They are writing the rules at the moment, thanks to a weak Pakistani government.That was the whole point of the article. If the government falls, it will either be replaced by the Taleban or by another military dictatorship, probably a good deal less amenable than Musharraf's, and with the ISI still riddled with Taleban support it is highly questionable whether such a structure will last.

nbs2
Apr 27, 2009, 08:08 AM
In it's own perverse way, this could be useful for exploitation by the United States.

The rise of the Taliban in Pakistan will lead to larger scale violence against India, especially along the border and in Kashmir. While India has worked with the US in Afghanistan, they have restrained from getting overly involved. Full scale Indian involvement in Pakistan will relieve some of the pressure that the US is dealing with in Afghanistan by forcing a two front war on the militants - I suspect it would play out in similar fashion to Hitler's incursion into the USSR during WWII.

Now, I must temper this post with several caveats. One, the rise of the Taliban in any shape is a bad thing and I certainly would rather see them quashed while the US deals with Afghanistan on its own than the carnage that would undoubtedly accompany the fall of Pakistan. Two, I have no interest in seeing WWIII or the holocaust that would follow the immediate acquisition a nuclear arsenal by a group what would be suicidal enough to use it. Three, the people I fear the most are the Apocalyptic religionists in the West and the East. You know who I'm talking about - the folks who look forward to embracing the end of the world, especially the nutcases here in the US. Four, maybe the Mayans were right.

Shivetya
Apr 27, 2009, 08:21 AM
The wonderfully peaceful religion of Islam....

skunk
Apr 27, 2009, 09:02 AM
Full scale Indian involvement in Pakistan will relieve some of the pressure that the US is dealing with in Afghanistan by forcing a two front war on the militants - I suspect it would play out in similar fashion to Hitler's incursion into the USSR during WWII.I hope you are not serious. That "incursion" cost several million lives. You would not dream of saying such a thing if the area in question was not several thousand miles and two continents away.

The wonderfully peaceful religion of Islam....Can you please remind me which "Nation Under God" it was that invaded two sovereign states and cost the lives of several hundred thousand of their citizens? I don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure they weren't Islamic.

barkmonster
Apr 27, 2009, 09:18 AM
The wonderfully peaceful religion of Islam....

I'm with you on this.

Islam is like a kid in school finally getting the toy (concept of a monolithic god/heaven/angels etc...) that everyone else has being playing with all year (several millennia) then thinking they're the best for finally having one of their own.

When it dawns on them that everyone else doesn't care half as much as they do about them finally having it, they start picking fights with other kids, constantly saying they're toy is crap because it's older. Failing to realise they all have the same toy and it doesn't really matter, then trying to muscle in on everyone else's games just to spite everyone who doesn't think the same as they do because that's how children with a chip on their shoulder behave.

geese
Apr 27, 2009, 09:37 AM
I'm with you on this.

Islam is like a kid in school finally getting the toy (concept of a monolithic god/heaven/angels etc...) that everyone else has being playing with all year (several millennia) then thinking they're the best for finally having one of their own.

When it dawns on them that everyone else doesn't care half as much as they do about them finally having it, they start picking fights with other kids, constantly saying they're toy is crap because it's older. Failing to realise they all have the same toy and it doesn't really matter, then trying to muscle in on everyone else's games just to spite everyone who doesn't think the same as they do because that's how children with a chip on their shoulder behave.

Well thats a mature, well considered take on one of the worlds largest and diverse religions! How perceptive!

barkmonster
Apr 27, 2009, 09:48 AM
Well thats a mature, well considered take on one of the worlds largest and diverse religions! How perceptive!

I'd say it's more of a gross oversimplification in the form of a school yard politics analogy by a sarcasm addicted atheist who lives by the "prove it, or shut up" rule.

They're basically the same mythology, that can't be denied and as far as "having the same toy and it not mattering", all "human beings" are the same biologically no matter what race/faith they are. There's being so much fighting over territory taken by followers of Islam because of the whole "Ours is the only TRUE version" mentality of the faith and that's lead to a massive amount of continual violence for the past 1,300 years or so. There's certainly no "love" in war is there?

Don't panic
Apr 27, 2009, 10:23 AM
Absolutely sickening and disgusting. These people should all go to hell for the immense evil within them. Adultery is a crime but coldly murdering people is not? Despicable. Send in a few apache attack helicopters and make short work of these monsters.

Sorry this has made me extremely angry, I can go on but the words I need to use to describe this aren't allowed on this forum.

why would adultery be a crime? are you kidding? you are less different from them than you think.

edit: i think i misread your post as per skunk's comment down below. My bad, sorry.

mactastic
Apr 27, 2009, 01:49 PM
At the time of prayer, if they see anyone in his shop or walking about, they whip him with a stick.
Out of curiosity, why wasn't the guy with the whip in prayers? :confused:

Send in a few apache attack helicopters and make short work of these monsters.
Oh that would totally work. In fact, I'm surprised no intrepid military experts have thought of this before you. You must be the most brilliant military tactician since Alexander. :rolleyes:

Eraserhead
Apr 27, 2009, 02:04 PM
Full scale Indian involvement in Pakistan will relieve some of the pressure that the US is dealing with in Afghanistan by forcing a two front war on the militants - I suspect it would play out in similar fashion to Hitler's incursion into the USSR during WWII.

While I agree that India and Pakistan should probably re-merge back into one country what you are proposing would also almost definitely lead to nuclear war.

I'm with you on this.

Islam is like a kid in school finally getting the toy (concept of a monolithic god/heaven/angels etc...) that everyone else has being playing with all year (several millennia) then thinking they're the best for finally having one of their own.

What about Malaysia and Indonesia? Both of them are Islamic.

barkmonster
Apr 27, 2009, 02:32 PM
While I agree that India and Pakistan should probably re-merge back into one country what you are proposing would also almost definitely lead to nuclear war.

nuclear war would NEVER break out so long as they have areas that are sacred. They wouldn't want to nuke Madina for instance.

What about Malaysia and Indonesia? Both of them are Islamic.

Only AFTER the faith spread to the area from where it began. Look it up on wikipedia sometime

Eraserhead
Apr 27, 2009, 02:49 PM
nuclear war would NEVER break out so long as they have areas that are sacred. They wouldn't want to nuke Madina for instance.

I was thinking that the nuking would occur on large Indian and Pakistani cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Lahore and Islamabad rather than distant targets in the middle east...


Only AFTER the faith spread to the area from where it began. Look it up on wikipedia sometime

The extremist Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabi) in the middle east actually came much more recently than the 13th-14th centuries when Islam spread to Malaysia/Indonesia.

I should also note that the Malaysia doesn't have legalised homosexuality (but Indonesia does) so they are extreme in that area of human rights.

barkmonster
Apr 27, 2009, 02:59 PM
I was thinking that the nuking would occur on large Indian and Pakistani cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Lahore and Islamabad rather than distant targets in the middle east...

I was using that as an extreme example. I just meant, a group of people nuking an area they have so much reverence for, they're willing to fight over it leaves no area to fight over.

skunk
Apr 27, 2009, 03:10 PM
why would adultery be a crime? are you kidding? you are less different from them than you think.You omitted burnsey's implied quotation marks. In the Taleban's world, he is asking, how can adultery be a crime while cold-blooded murder is not.

I'd say it's more of a gross oversimplification in the form of a school yard politics analogy by a sarcasm addicted atheist who lives by the "prove it, or shut up" rule.

They're basically the same mythology, that can't be denied and as far as "having the same toy and it not mattering", all "human beings" are the same biologically no matter what race/faith they are. There's being so much fighting over territory taken by followers of Islam because of the whole "Ours is the only TRUE version" mentality of the faith and that's lead to a massive amount of continual violence for the past 1,300 years or so. There's certainly no "love" in war is there?No, I'm with geese: Islam as a whole has been responsible for far less violence and war than has Christianity, and in neither case is it at all sensible or useful to blame the religion for the actions of its practitioners.
Remember, too, that if it had not been for Islam, we probably would not have had a Renaissance.

barkmonster
Apr 27, 2009, 03:45 PM
You omitted burnsey's implied quotation marks. In the Taleban's world, he is asking, how can adultery be a crime while cold-blooded murder is not.

No, I'm with geese: Islam as a whole has been responsible for far less violence and war than has Christianity, and in neither case is it at all sensible or useful to blame the religion for the actions of its practitioners.
Remember, too, that if it had not been for Islam, we probably would not have had a Renaissance.

And there I was thinking the best contribution Islam has had to society was my favourite take-away food :D

Of course I'm sure there MUST be an extremist group somewhere who think the madras is the only true food and all other forms of take-away are infidels who should burn in hell (or the oven)

djellison
Apr 27, 2009, 04:32 PM
The wonderfully peaceful religion of Islam....


OBL said Allah be praised, then told some guys to fly planes into skycrapers.
GWB said God Bless America then shock-and-awed his way into Iraq.

I'm not saying these two events are the same. I'm not saying that AT ALL.

But religion, of EVERY type, has been used as a justification/motivation for acts of violence.

Christianity is no less or more peaceful than any other religion, Islam included. One can cherry pick the Bible to find massively violent punishments stipulated for minor or even nonsensical transgressions. Ditto for the Qur'an.

Pointing at one diabolical abuse of a religion and claiming it to be typical of Islam is no more justified than for Christianity.

These actions are no more typical of Islam than the KKK is typical of Christianity

I don't pretend to be knowledgeable enough to understand the issues with the Middle East, nor intelligent enough to know how to solve them. I do, however, live in a city with a large Islamic population, and they are kind, polite, friendly people. Claiming Islam to be a religion of violence is simply wrong.