Safari compatibility for GMail

[MacRumors]

MacCentral interviews (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/04/25/gmail/index.php?redirect=1082962842000) Google co-founder Sergey Brin who promises support for Safari for Google's newest service, Gmail, before it is publicly released.

Gmail (https://gmail.google.com) is a webmail service which allows users to keep up to 1GB of messages, allowing users to search and organize them.

While the current Beta does not officially support Safari, users have been able log in with some success.

Gmail: Screenshots (http://gorman.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=150807)

[the_mole1314]

From what I hear, Gmail does work on Safari. Oh well, I want it my gmail now!

[rhpenguin]

woohoo! Were not left out in the cold!

A very nice move by the people at google!

[nsb3000]

From what I hear, Gmail does work on Safari. Oh well, I want it my gmail now!

Ya, if you use the debug menu to change Safari's identification to Windows IE, it (theoretically) lets you log in. I tried this and it no longer brought up the “your browser is not supported” message. Not being one of the extra special people with an account at present, I have not been able to test it out for sure. It is good news to here that official support is coming...

[Gherkin]

I have a GMail account. I hope that makes some people jealous :D

[gilrain]

I'm surprised a Mac news source would miss the chance to point out that 1GB webmail already exists (http://www.spymac.com), and is of particular note to Mac users, since it is Mac-centric and supports Calendar publishing. In my opinion GMail is cool because of the potential for the search tie-in, not because 1GB of e-mail is particularly revolutionary, or even that desirable.

[nsb3000]

I have a GMail account. I hope that makes some people jealous :D

How did you get one?

[rubikcube]

I have an account and tried the debug menu trick. It lets you log in, but after that you aren't able to do anything. Your inbox will come up, but none of the links will be active. I don't understand why this level of functionality isn't available. It does work fairly well in firefox though.

[Rooey]

It's stuff like this that REALLY makes me mad.

What are they saying? They'll teach their monkeys how to code before they release the product?

The whole point of HTML/CSS et al was that they were an open standard, every browser can read them blah blah blah

This Micro$oft only rubbish on web sites is just damn stupid anyway - If they're not going to bother writing their sites proplery, they're not going to get my business.

*screams*

Like I said... this rubbish REALLY frustrates me.

Google - get yer act together.

[nsb3000]

I'm surprised a Mac news source would miss the chance to point out that 1GB webmail <a href="http://www.spymac.com">already exists</a>, and is of particular note to Mac users, since it is Mac-centric and supports Calendar publishing. In my opinion GMail is cool because of the potential for the search tie-in, not because 1GB of e-mail is particularly revolutionary, or even that desirable.

I would be surprised if Spymac is really able to keep this up. I give them credit for a smart marketing move. Matching GMail just days after google announced gave them all sorts of press coverage, including a full story on News.com, (http://news.com.com/2100-1038-5185461.html) but I have my doubts about whether Spymac will be able to keep it up in the long run.

[Scampura]

I've got a Gmail account, too. I had iTools a couple years ago when .Mac's new webmail was being beta tested, and I really liked that webmail interface, but...

well.

There's just not much comparison at all. Gmail is the best webmail I've ever used. I wonder how many .Mac subscribers will end up migrating, tee hee. :D Oh, and it works just fine for me in Safari, and I haven't touched the debug menu.

[nsb3000]

I've got a Gmail account, too. I had iTools a couple years ago when .Mac's new webmail was being beta tested, and I really liked that webmail interface, but...

well.

There's just not much comparison at all. Gmail is the best webmail I've ever used. I wonder how many .Mac subscribers will end up migrating, tee hee. :D Oh, and it works just fine for me in Safari, and I haven't touched the debug menu.

This is what I have read online. You guys should check out the screen shots..there is a whole lot more to Gmail than the one gig thing.

[gilrain]

I would be surprised if Spymac is really able to keep this up. I give them credit for a smart marketing move. Matching GMail just days after google announced gave them all sorts of press coverage, including a full story on News.com, (http://news.com.com/2100-1038-5185461.html) but I have my doubts about whether Spymac will be able to keep it up in the long run.

I don't know. I've kept all of my e-mail, including every single sent e-mail and the vast majority of received (aside from spam, of course), for the past three or so years. I'm using IMAP, so all of that is on a server. It's only about 30MB. I think that much e-mail is above average, actually. I think Spymac has the right idea, and it's the same idea casinos rely on: most users will use very little of their quota, and it's only those few outliers you have to pay off. I think they'll be able to handle it for quite some time, if not indefinitely, as long as they have proper protection against people simply using it as storage for attachments and the like.

What I like about GMail, particularly after seeing those screenshots, is that it features the same thing as Google: the joy of a simple, uncluttered, intuitive interface. Too many web interfaces are a cluster of buttons which, sure, you can learn -- but are an eyesore and a pain to deal with. I think GMail will be another win for Google: same old webmail functionality, but with Google convenience. If they allowed IMAP access, I would be slavering. ;)

[Macmaniac]

Well at least they are going to support Safari, it angers me that more websites do not embrace Safari, its such a great broweser, and its pop up blocker can not be beat!

[TRiPod]

Check your spelling!
in the title:
*compatibility* (you forgot the 'i' )

[gorman]

Okay, calm down :)

Gmail works pretty well in Safari, but there are some quirks. Once you login and reload once, everything works. There are some random loading issues, but nothing show-stopping. I would assume that some of these problems are due to limitations in Safari, but I'm sure the next version will correct that.

Gmail is extremely well coded, and it does make use of advanced Javascript. That Javascript isn't just for cool little features either. It adds a substantial amount of functionality that actually make web-based mail usable.

To say their coders don't know what they're doing is about as far away from the truth as you can get. I've yet to see a site make such good use of Javascript, so you have to give them some credit.

Like I said though, for the most part, it works fine in Safari. I'm sure it'll work perfectly upon release. After all, there is a reason it's not public yet.

In fact, if you look at the linked screenshots, you'll see they were taken in Safari.

[centauratlas]

Running the latest Safari with "Automatically" chosen works for me. You have to choose "log me in anyway," but I can pull up mail, change settings etc. I am not sure where they meant it doesn't work.

You can get into the beta early if you had an active Blogger account. It doesn't work to create a new one - I wanted to get another account for a friend.

[1macker1]

Besides the 1G storage, what makes this the best e-mail service?

[nsb3000]

I don't know. I've kept all of my e-mail, including every single sent e-mail and the vast majority of received (aside from spam, of course), for the past three or so years. I'm using IMAP, so all of that is on a server. It's only about 30MB. I think that much e-mail is above average, actually. I think Spymac has the right idea, and it's the same idea casinos rely on: most users will use very little of their quota, and it's only those few outliers you have to pay off. I think they'll be able to handle it for quite some time, if not indefinitely, as long as they have proper protection against people simply using it as storage for attachments and the like.

I suppose you are right on this point. And as time goes on, and email storage use goes up, hard drive prices will go down....


What I like about GMail, particularly after seeing those screenshots, is that it features the same thing as Google: the joy of a simple, uncluttered, intuitive interface. Too many web interfaces are a cluster of buttons which, sure, you can learn -- but are an eyesore and a pain to deal with. I think GMail will be another win for Google: same old webmail functionality, but with Google convenience. If they allowed IMAP access, I would be slavering. ;)

This is true. Gmail looks pretty neat. I don't think it looks good enough to abandon mail, or any full featured standalone email software, but it is the first thing I have looked at that has me reconsidering my normal aversion to web mail. While we are on the subject, let me use this opportunity to plug Fastmail (http://www.fastmail.fm) , which allows free imap access, and all sorts of other advanced features. I have been using them for over a year now, and have nothing but positive things to say about the experience.

[Koodauw]

This is good news. Hopefully other companies can follow suit. I can't wait to sign up.

[123]

Personally, I think web mailers are for losers. And I don't know why google should be able to change that. I couldn't care less if the interface of existing web interfaces are a "cluster of buttons" if I don't have to use them more than a couple of times a year. Unless you plan to become a google share holder in the future I really don't understand why this whole thing should be relevant to anybody except idiots.

edit: of course the news bit itself is relevant since it strengthens the Mac platform which is always good even if the service is idiotic.

[silvergunuk]

Funny thing about this story when I clicked on the link is that the guys name is David (Dave) Gorman and there is a English comedian called dave Gorman who did a show a few years back called the dave gorman collection. What it is, he basically bet his friend that he could find a dave or david gorman for every card in a deck of playing cards (including the jokers). He traveled the world looking for dave gormans. He turns upto their homes, chats to them briefly, takes a photo with them and they sign it from dave gorman to dave gorman. Check out his website. Wonder if any other uk members from this forum ever watched this show.

http://www.davegorman.com/dgcollection/collection.html

[RIP]

This looks just like a web based email application complete with privacy issues.

Looks like a great account to use for my spam account. I'm not the least bit excited by this. I'm a freedom loving person and when I ask myself how Google can get away with giving a gig of storage space out, I get the heebie-jeebies.

Sure, I use Google for my search engine, and with that they can get my IP, computer, and browser info, but that is about it unless they get a warrant.

This Gmail however, they will know a lot about me and the contents of my email. That is a bit more than I am willing to give, and a gig of storage doesn't justify that. Now, if they paid me for using their app, maybe I would think twice, but even then I probably wouldn't do it. It's just too against my principles.

I'm sure for a million people or more, they will be happy with it.

[TheT]

To those who already have it: You all say that the infertace is so great and easy and...
Well, I don't think it will be better the Mail.app. But why is it better than i.e. .Mac webmail (yes, besides that it's free)? I don't see any "hard" part in using that... :confused:

[gilrain]

To those who already have it: You all say that the infertace is so great and easy and...
Well, I don't think it will be better the Mail.app. But why is it better than i.e. .Mac webmail (yes, besides that it's free)? I don't see any "hard" part in using that... :confused:

I'm not sure you can say "besides that it's free" when that is almost the whole point. .Mac is a cool service because of iSync, easy hosting, and integration. Aside from that, it's not really worth the money: there are much cheaper ways to get the same features. I'm not dissing .Mac, I'm just saying it's not competing with GMail or other free services.

Also, I think most people have several e-mail accounts. I imagine quite a few .Mac members will maintain accounts with both services.

[SiliconAddict]

Personally, I think web mailers are for losers. And I don't know why google should be able to change that. I couldn't care less if the interface of existing web interfaces are a "cluster of buttons" if I don't have to use them more than a couple of times a year. Unless you plan to become a google share holder in the future I really don't understand why this whole thing should be relevant to anybody except idiots.

edit: of course the news bit itself is relevant since it strengthens the Mac platform which is always good even if the service is idiotic.


How very enlightened you are. Please gleam some of that wonderful insight to the masses by telling us poor pitiful peasants why web based e-mail is so horrid. I mean you obviously are the seer of all, knower of all things, the pantheon of all things web. Tell us o brilliant one why the world is so wrong and you are so right. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oh I'm sorry I forgot to turn off the sarcasm mode on my browser. There we go.

Web based e-mail is 100 times more flexible then any mail client driven service. In fact some of the best mail accounts I've owned allow both for both dedicated client and web access. So let me understand correctly you are in favor of limiting your options. What stunning insight. Sorry dang sarcasm addin keeps turning on in my browser.

[The Cheat]

I'm surprised no one here is even the slightest bit concerned that Google actively scans the content of your email and then suggests links based on what it has found.

[Windowlicker]

I don't have the time to read through the whole thread right now, but all I can think of is that this is most welcome for the mac community. Still it sounds pretty stupid they don't already have support for safari :Q

[Scampura]

To those who already have it: You all say that the infertace is so great and easy and...
Well, I don't think it will be better the Mail.app. But why is it better than i.e. .Mac webmail (yes, besides that it's free)? I don't see any "hard" part in using that... :confused:

Here's what I like, so far:

1. "Conversation" thread view. If you send a bunch of e-mails back and forth about the same subject, they get displayed as neatly stacked cards in the interface. I think it's better than thread grouping in Mail.app.

2. It's blazing fast. For me, pretty much every operation happens as quickly as a standard Google search.

3. Keyboard shortcuts. You can get navigate around the service without using the mouse. There are shortcuts for composing mail, replying, forwarding, selecting the inbox and refreshing it, moving to newer or older messages, collapsing/expanding messages in conversation view, and so on.

4. Labels. They work like folders, only better; in traditional mail programs a message can be filed only in one folder, but in gmail you can apply multiple labels to a single message.

5. The ads aren't annoying at all. They're really tiny, in fact. And I know a lot of people have their panties all bunched up about privacy issues, but I don't think there's anything to worry about--the algorithm that scans messages for content doesn't get fed the account name or anything in the to/from fields for the message. So there's no connection between what you write and who you are.

And the ads are kinda fun...I wrote a message to my dad about my upcoming college graduation, and after I sent it, a couple ads popped up about caps and gowns. Kinda cool, I thought. Google has been doing that with my searches for years, so....big deal. :p

[SiliconAddict]

I'm surprised no one here is even the slightest bit concerned that Google actively scans the content of your email and then suggests links based on what it has found.

I'm not because I'm well aware of what's at stake for google if they screw up. There are a whole host of search applications coming online in the next few years. Google is uping the ante before that happens. If they screw up with people's privacy they are done. Its similar to how I view Apple and iTMS. They aren't going to try and actively screw people over because they aren't in a position to try such a tactic.
Same goes with google. They are top dog now but one stumble and its over.
Google can't afford to mess around with privacy issues and from what I understand, might be wrong, they the methods they are using to scan your mail is not archived in a manner that allows the company or individual to get any real relevant information from you. The system simply scans your mail for keywords.
So I'm guessing this post would pick up Applications/Apple/iTMS. Hopefully not screw. :eek: ;) and give me relevant content. I'm going to give it a try when the blasted service is available!! People are crucifying the system and its not even available to the masses yet!

[SiliconAddict]

Here's what I like, so far:

1. "Conversation" thread view. If you send a bunch of e-mails back and forth about the same subject, they get displayed as neatly stacked cards in the interface. I think it's better than thread grouping in Mail.app.

2. It's blazing fast. For me, pretty much every operation happens as quickly as a standard Google search.




1. Sounds dang cool.

2. Well keep in mind you are probably one of only a few thousand lucky few on the system. It might get a "bit" slower if you add 300,000 users on the system. ;)

[kfury]

Hey guys (or at least those of you with Gmail accounts), a new push to the servers last week incorporated the latest Safari-compatible code.

The browser check still says Safari isn't a 'currently supported' browser, but click through on 'try anyways' and it works really well, with only a few bugs that are still being worked on.

Note that using the browser spoofing trick (making Safari look like IE, or example) may do more harm than good, if Gmail is giving slightly different code to the client to optimize for Safari's Javascript.

Enjoy!

-Kevin Fox

[the_mole1314]

I'm surprised no one here is even the slightest bit concerned that Google actively scans the content of your email and then suggests links based on what it has found.

And Yahoo, HotMail, and others don't? I mean, even AOL searches your e-mail, but once it's used for commericalism, then all the privacy organizations come out of the woodwork. Personally, I'd happly trade the contents of my e-mails (as long as the email addresses are removed) for large storage space and lots of cool features.

[maelstromr]

I'm not because I'm well aware of what's at stake for google if they screw up. There are a whole host of search applications coming online in the next few years. Google is uping the ante before that happens. If they screw up with people's privacy they are done. Its similar to how I view Apple and iTMS. They aren't going to try and actively screw people over because they aren't in a position to try such a tactic.
Same goes with google. They are top dog now but one stumble and its over.
Google can't afford to mess around with privacy issues and from what I understand, might be wrong, they the methods they are using to scan your mail is not archived in a manner that allows the company or individual to get any real relevant information from you. The system simply scans your mail for keywords.
So I'm guessing this post would pick up Applications/Apple/iTMS. Hopefully not screw. :eek: ;) and give me relevant content. I'm going to give it a try when the blasted service is available!! People are crucifying the system and its not even available to the masses yet!


On the same note microsoft would never do anything bad because they don't want people to hate them, right? And big corporations would never do unethical things because the people might rise up, right?

I just keep hearing executives in board rooms all over the world rubbing their hands together and saying "ehhhhhcellent" everytime that arguement/lack of annoyance or suspicion is brought up.

[Jag31X]

.....The pics on this thing look promising!!! Can't wait!!

[3-22]

Support Safari or not, I'm personally not using it. 1GB comes with too high of a price for me... Privacy. I really don't care to have computers scanning my email and advertising related items. You could say "so what?" Well if people buy into this crap then what will be next? It will only get more and more intrusive. Look at everything else, first it was banners, then pop-ups, now all kinds of horrible junk.

No thanks...

[MattG]

That's cool.

I don't think I'd switch from .Mac to Gmail, mostly because I like the functionality .Mac gives me with iSync. However, I'll probably get a Gmail account just to have it, for those times when people want to send pictures or large attachments.

[Piker]

They announce that their system will support Safari as if is some big success story. Why make an announcement to let us know that the system will do what it is supposed to do?

The next big news out of the Google HQ will probably be something like "Gmail allows you send email as well as receive it! Hooray!"

This is not a big revelation. If they build Gmail functionality into the Safari browser menu like they did the Google search, that would be worth waking me up for. Speaking of which, I've read in a few places that Yahoo's search may replace Google as the built-in Safari search engine. That woud anger me.

-Piker

[123]

Web based e-mail is 100 times more flexible then any mail client driven service.
In some ways, yes, in others, no. For everyday use, definitely no.

In fact some of the best mail accounts I've owned allow both for both dedicated client and web access. So let me understand correctly you are in favor of limiting your options.
Err, no. I do use web mail sometimes... whenever you can't use POP or IMAP: holidays etc.. I've never used and would never use a public email service that doesn't offer both web access and either IMAP or at least POP3. However, I'm glad you had those features too in "some of the best mail accounts" you owned. Those world class accounts really must have been exceptionally good, I bet you could also write emails and even send attachments? Impressive!!!

Anyway, people who think it's "100 times more flexible" to go to some web page from home or work and click through clumsy, non-integrated interfaces all the time are simply idiots. As are those who make such a fuss about a 10% less painful experience like this google stuff. And BTW, the only people who are limiting their options are those who sign up for google mail.

What stunning insight. Sorry dang sarcasm addin keeps turning on in my browser.
Thanks! I almost couldn't tell.

[macnews]

It's stuff like this that REALLY makes me mad.

What are they saying? They'll teach their monkeys how to code before they release the product?

The whole point of HTML/CSS et al was that they were an open standard, every browser can read them blah blah blah.


I can not agree more. I can't believe more people have not pointed this out or commented on it! I mean really, shouldn't EVERY website be coded to html standards? What good is a standard if no one adheres to it? From what I have read, Apple also needs to pay attention to standards. I am not a programer or java nut, but some recent stories have mentioned Apple is not using or adhering to the latest java code.

Apple MUST lead the way in terms of following standards and bitch like crazy when it doesn't happen. Safari should follow ALL the latest HTML/CSS/Java standards. We, as mac users, also need to bitch and moan when companies don't follow standards as well. By following a standard the company loses the argument "the mac user base just isn't large enough for us to justify the cost". If you follow a standard, you are not coding JUST for a certain user base, you are coding for EVERYONE. This means windows, linux, unix, mac, etc. If you want to code "special" little features into your system for the windows people fine, then just make sure the rest of the world can use it as well by following standards and providing options.

Uggghh! I am glad Safari will be supported but I would rather see the headline "Gmail to follow HTML standards" - and REALLY follow the standard, not what Bill and co. say should be the standard.

-end rant.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

any word on POP/IMAP support? Would be great for using with Mail.app.

Arn, can you post full specs? Or someone shoot me off a link?

Thanks.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Thing is, if it followed strict HTML standards, MSIE 6 wouldn't be able to render it properly.

People code for MSIE, not to standards. It's awful, and it's M$'s fault.

I can not agree more. I can't believe more people have not pointed this out or commented on it! I mean really, shouldn't EVERY website be coded to html standards? What good is a standard if no one adheres to it? From what I have read, Apple also needs to pay attention to standards. I am not a programer or java nut, but some recent stories have mentioned Apple is not using or adhering to the latest java code.

Apple MUST lead the way in terms of following standards and bitch like crazy when it doesn't happen. Safari should follow ALL the latest HTML/CSS/Java standards. We, as mac users, also need to bitch and moan when companies don't follow standards as well. By following a standard the company loses the argument "the mac user base just isn't large enough for us to justify the cost". If you follow a standard, you are not coding JUST for a certain user base, you are coding for EVERYONE. This means windows, linux, unix, mac, etc. If you want to code "special" little features into your system for the windows people fine, then just make sure the rest of the world can use it as well by following standards and providing options.

Uggghh! I am glad Safari will be supported but I would rather see the headline "Gmail to follow HTML standards" - and REALLY follow the standard, not what Bill and co. say should be the standard.

-end rant.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Use Safari Enhancer (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17776) to change it back should that happen. But yes, yahoo sucks and I'll be firing off letters to Apple if they change their affiliation with google.


They announce that their system will support Safari as if is some big success story. Why make an announcement to let us know that the system will do what it is supposed to do?

The next big news out of the Google HQ will probably be something like "Gmail allows you send email as well as receive it! Hooray!"

This is not a big revelation. If they build Gmail functionality into the Safari browser menu like they did the Google search, that would be worth waking me up for. Speaking of which, I've read in a few places that Yahoo's search may replace Google as the built-in Safari search engine. That woud anger me.

-Piker

[Rower_CPU]

Thing is, if it followed strict HTML standards, MSIE 6 wouldn't be able to render it properly.

People code for MSIE, not to standards. It's awful, and it's M$'s fault.

BS. IE follows the standards well enough to render properly and there are scores of hacks to make it work like it should.

People are starting to code for standards and IE better keep up.

Here's some info on Gmail inaccessibility (http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/04/10/gmail-accessibility).

[Penman]

I have a GMail account. I hope that makes some people jealous :D

I have 3 accounts but I've always been pretty special...

[The Red Wolf]

Full functionality? It's a Beta. It has not been released to the general public. The purpose of a Beta is to test your software then make changes. A moment of Zen. It is a Beta, It is a Beta, It is a Beta... Thank you.

[MacPearl]

I have a GMail account. I hope that makes some people jealous :D

How is it so far, comparing to Yahoo, Hotmail, or any other free mail? I wish I had one :D

[titaniumducky]

GIVE ME GMAIL! MUST GET IT.... GAAHHH, ARGGGGH

[ifjake]

i second the dude who wants to know about POP support.

[adamjuhasz]

I just got invited to the beta, so this method seems to work.

I already had a blogger account, but hadn't even logged in in 3 months. I've posted about 5 times in the last 3 days and poof, on the right side a like comes up to try gmail.

so, its worth a shot if you already have a blogger account and haven't used it. If you don't have an account, making a new one might work.

[kylos]

Privacy issues. First, you don't like your mail being scanned? It likely already is being scanned by your ISP and what not for viruses/spam etc. And google or hotmail or yahoo or whatever could still be scanning/storing your mail in an unethical manner without your knowledge anyhow, so gmail isn't introducing any new potential "evil" by scanning your mail for customized adverts. Email goes through many hands from one location to another. It's just as likely that your mail will be snooped along the way. Anything can go on in a program behind the scenes. Google has said that your mail will not be used for any other purpose than a keyword scan. Has your ISP or email service told you that they are not using your mail inappropriately? So don't say Google is invading your privacy.

Webmail. I've tried to avoid it as much as possible. I want access to my mail whenever, wherever. And with my laptop and Postfix Enabler (search versiontracker for it), I really have very little need. I'm very, very, very happy about that. However, GMail sounds very attractive as far as features and usability are concerned. I would still like a pop3 or imap version, though, before I'd be too interested in it.

[dontmatter]

Isn't anyone worried about WHY gmail can offer 1GB for free? Scanning your mail so they know what to advertise, and sending you ads in message form? I'd like to keep my privacy, thank you very much

Note: I might open up an account to send big files to myself....and friends. But, none of my actual mail is going through there.

[dontmatter]

Privacy issues. First, you don't like your mail being scanned? It likely already is being scanned by your ISP and what not for viruses/spam etc. And google or hotmail or yahoo or whatever could still be scanning/storing your mail in an unethical manner without your knowledge anyhow, so gmail isn't introducing any new potential "evil" by scanning your mail for customized adverts. Email goes through many hands from one location to another. It's just as likely that your mail will be snooped along the way. Anything can go on in a program behind the scenes. Google has said that your mail will not be used for any other purpose than a keyword scan. Has your ISP or email service told you that they are not using your mail inappropriately? So don't say Google is invading your privacy.

Webmail. I've tried to avoid it as much as possible. I want access to my mail whenever, wherever. And with my laptop and Postfix Enabler (search versiontracker for it), I really have very little need. I'm very, very, very happy about that. However, GMail sounds very attractive as far as features and usability are concerned. I would still like a pop3 or imap version, though, before I'd be too interested in it.


Yeah, but it's a different thing when somebody has the potential to do it secretely, but it's not exaclty legal, vs. when they specifically say they are going to, and put it in the contract you scroll to the bottom of and hit accept because it's pages of gibberish anyway. If they do that publically, what do they do secretly?

Just saying that I don't think hotmail is really that dangerous...except of course that it's run by the devil.

[kylos]

What google is doing is not in any way infringing on your privacy. They simply scan your mail, generate your adverts and then get rid of any copies of your mail (other than yours, of course). This is perfectly legitimate and if you don't mind advertisements getting in your way, not at all a problem.

Google is no more likely to use your mail improperly (ie. outside of what they have explicitly told you) than any other email service, web or ISP based. Just because you give them specific rights does not mean they will take any specific liberties with your privacy that any other provider wouldn't take. It doesn't logically follow.

[wowser]

damn. i have my Gmail account, now, but it so does NOT work with Safari and i just get spat out. I tried using IE, but no luck there either and now i access it using the excellent Firefox (like in my windows days)

[PRØBE]

Sure, I use Google for my search engine, and with that they can get my IP, computer, and browser info, but that is about it unless they get a warrant.

This Gmail however, they will know a lot about me and the contents of my email. That is a bit more than I am willing to give, and a gig of storage doesn't justify that. Now, if they paid me for using their app, maybe I would think twice, but even then I probably wouldn't do it. It's just too against my principles.

I'm sure for a million people or more, they will be happy with it.[/QUOTE]



I totally agree. I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. I am also concerned that more people aren't making an issue of this. I guess the 1gig sweetner is too much of a tempting bribe for many. IMO they have no right to read/scan people's mail no matter what they offer. I'm sure most people who use it will soon forget that their mail is being scanned.

[wowser]

i actually don't have a problem with what they are doing, but what will they actually do with the information from my emails? Should i not make it my default email account? I do trust google as an ethically sound company, so i am far less worried about google doing this than some more dubious company

[kylos]

They'll create your custom adverts and then relinquish all access to your mail to you. Really, all webmails store your data, so yes, in a physical sense google still has your mail, but like other webmails, they don't access it once they've generated your ads. I wouldn't make my main account a webmail personally, but if that's what you're already doing then you shouldn't have a problem with gmail.

[nsb3000]

I just got invited to the beta, so this method seems to work.

I already had a blogger account, but hadn't even logged in in 3 months. I've posted about 5 times in the last 3 days and poof, on the right side a like comes up to try gmail.

so, its worth a shot if you already have a blogger account and haven't used it. If you don't have an account, making a new one might work.

Thanks for the tip. I two am a Blogger user, and so after a read your message, I went ahead and logged in, and behold, I am now on the exclusive list of gmail account holders. It is pretty cool...

[coolbreeze]

I, for one, am not renewing .Mac and will transition to gmail. I was about to buy an account with www.fastmail.fm, but why do that when a service as good as gmail is free?

Now if .Mac increased it's STANDARD storage to a competitive level, maybe 100MB or so, I may consider renewing...but $100 is too much for 15 MB (yes, I know there's more to .Mac than email, but I use email ~95% of the time). The 15 MB is dated and needs to match more modern offerings (at least those coming down the pike). As for hotmail's 2 MB, good luck with that Microsoft! :rolleyes:

[wowser]

They'll create your custom adverts and then relinquish all access to your mail to you. Really, all webmails store your data, so yes, in a physical sense google still has your mail, but like other webmails, they don't access it once they've generated your ads. I wouldn't make my main account a webmail personally, but if that's what you're already doing then you shouldn't have a problem with gmail.

yeah, i'm coming from hotmail. thanks for the info - i think i'll stick with it :)

[Colonel Panik]

BS. IE follows the standards well enough to render properly and there are scores of hacks to make it work like it should.


IE6 claims 100% support for CSS1. But even that isn't true (http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/glassy.html).

It's an annoying fact of life. Like keys and locks. Most people don't steal, but we have security everywhere because of those few that do. Similarly, webcoders would love nothing better than to make pure compliant code, but because of the few browsers that don't support it, they can't.

[ipacmm]

cool...I can't wait to sign up.

[PRØBE]

Privacy issues. First, you don't like your mail being scanned? It likely already is being scanned by your ISP and what not for viruses/spam etc. And google or hotmail or yahoo or whatever could still be scanning/storing your mail in an unethical manner without your knowledge anyhow, so gmail isn't introducing any new potential "evil" by scanning your mail for customized adverts. Email goes through many hands from one location to another. It's just as likely that your mail will be snooped along the way. Anything can go on in a program behind the scenes. Google has said that your mail will not be used for any other purpose than a keyword scan. Has your ISP or email service told you that they are not using your mail inappropriately? So don't say Google is invading your privacy.

Webmail. I've tried to avoid it as much as possible. I want access to my mail whenever, wherever. And with my laptop and Postfix Enabler (search versiontracker for it), I really have very little need. I'm very, very, very happy about that. However, GMail sounds very attractive as far as features and usability are concerned. I would still like a pop3 or imap version, though, before I'd be too interested in it.




This has to be the least logical argument conceivable.
Imaginary, unsubstantiated "evils" are no basis from which to argue for the acceptance of a very real abuse of privacy.
Although many will be persuaded to give it up in return for some fancy features, privacy should NOT be turned into a cheap commodity.

[jackc]

I, for one, am not renewing .Mac and will transition to gmail. I was about to buy an account with www.fastmail.fm, but why do that when a service as good as gmail is free?

Unless you really need a ton of storage, I'll bet Gmail doesn't come close to fastmail. I get virtually no spam with fastmail, and some great features with a one-time $15 member account. One of my favorite features, which helps prevent spam, is subdomain addressing. Let's say your address is joeblow@fastmail.fm. You can give out your email address to a web site as anything@joeblow.fastmail.fm, and it will come to you. Then if it gets spammed, you just block that address.

I don't work for fastmail, I'm just a fan!

[kylos]

This has to be the least logical argument conceivable.
Imaginary, unsubstantiated "evils" are no basis from which to argue for the acceptance of a very real abuse of privacy.
Although many will be persuaded to give it up in return for some fancy features, privacy should NOT be turned into a cheap commodity.

Let me clarify for you, gmail neither invades nor abuses your privacy. It stores no information that any other web or imap mail does not store. Once your customized email is created, google has no access to your email. It's essentially a stream editor; the email is simply processed to provide the advertisements, it is never stored for later access by google. Unless you consider the automatic, non-stored, computer generated, not-ever-viewed-by-human-eyes(except yours, obviously) advertisements an invasion of privacy, which is far fetched, gmail does nothing with your e-messages that is not done by any other email service. To call this an invasion of privacy is rather dramatic.

Oh, and if someone wants to turn their own "privacy into a cheap commodity" then they have every right to do so. And I wish them the best of luck.

[PRØBE]

Let me clarify for you, gmail neither invades nor abuses your privacy. It stores no information that any other web or imap mail does not store. Once your customized email is created, google has no access to your email. It's essentially a stream editor; the email is simply processed to provide the advertisements, it is never stored for later access by google. Unless you consider the automatic, non-stored, computer generated, not-ever-viewed-by-human-eyes(except yours, obviously) advertisements an invasion of privacy, which is far fetched, gmail does nothing with your e-messages that is not done by any other email service. To call this an invasion of privacy is rather dramatic.

Oh, and if someone wants to turn their own "privacy into a cheap commodity" then they have every right to do so. And I wish them the best of luck.


Thank you for the "clarification".
The emails are scanned, information is gleaned from them, that information is then exploited for marketing purposes. That's an invasion of privacy, voluntary or not. While I am expressing an opinion about the ethics of Gmail, you are merely stating that you accept the logisitics of it.

[Rower_CPU]

IE6 claims 100% support for CSS1. But even that isn't true (http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/glassy.html).

It's an annoying fact of life. Like keys and locks. Most people don't steal, but we have security everywhere because of those few that do. Similarly, webcoders would love nothing better than to make pure compliant code, but because of the few browsers that don't support it, they can't.

I'm not saying that IE gets it 100% right - just that it gets it right well enough to not ignore web standards in your design. Where IE gets it wrong, there's usually a hack to make it right.

It's a cop out to say "well, IE doesn't get it right so we can't code to the standards".

[SeaFox]

There's just not much comparison at all. Gmail is the best webmail I've ever used. I wonder how many .Mac subscribers will end up migrating, tee hee. :D

Well, lets see...

None of the ones who don't want their privacy invaded with GMail's targetted ads (reading your mail to find your interests).
None of the ones who use iSync.
None of the ones who use their iDisks.
None of the ones who like the discounts they get with .Mac


Oh, and

None of the people who avoid current webmail services for the very reason they like being able to get to their mail when they're not online. :rolleyes:

[oldschool]

This is what I have read online. You guys should check out the screen shots..there is a whole lot more to Gmail than the one gig thing.


yeah i agree. the one gigabyte is just one small part of it. gmail is absolutely awesome.


also, i think people think they are more interesting to others than they actually are. sure somebody at google could read your email, but do they really want to?

[PRØBE]

yeah i agree. the one gigabyte is just one small part of it. gmail is absolutely awesome.


also, i think people think they are more interesting to others than they actually are. sure somebody at google could read your email, but do they really want to?



Think about it this way, normal "snail mail" passes through many hands before it gets pushed through your door. Technically, therefore many people could open it, read it and use the information they find there for their own purposes. They don't of course because they would be breaking the law and would be unlikely to be able to conceal their crime. Now imagine that your postal service says "Hey, we are gonna open your mail and read it to find out information about you, which we will then pass on to junk mail companies for money.In return we will give you free stamps and a T-shirt. Okay?"

Would this be "awesome"?
Gmail is starting a trend. Pretty soon other webmail providers will switch to this model as it's more attractive to advertisers. We will probably have to pay hard cash for our privacy in the near future.

[ipoddin]

And Yahoo, HotMail, and others don't? I mean, even AOL searches your e-mail, but once it's used for commericalism, then all the privacy organizations come out of the woodwork. Personally, I'd happly trade the contents of my e-mails (as long as the email addresses are removed) for large storage space and lots of cool features.

Well, neither Hotmail or Yahoo deliver ads in your emails...so I doubt there's any need to scan the contents.

[oldschool]

Think about it this way, normal "snail mail" passes through many hands before it gets pushed through your door. Technically, therefore many people could open it, read it and use the information they find there for their own purposes. They don't of course because they would be breaking the law and would be unlikely to be able to conceal their crime. Now imagine that your postal service says "Hey, we are gonna open your mail and read it to find out information about you, which we will then pass on to junk mail companies for money.In return we will give you free stamps and a T-shirt. Okay?"

Would this be "awesome"?
Gmail is starting a trend. Pretty soon other webmail providers will switch to this model as it's more attractive to advertisers. We will probably have to pay hard cash for our privacy in the near future.

For free stamps they can scan MY mail and give it to advertisers I don't care. If i wanted private mail, i would use regular stamps, and have my mail sent the traditional route.

As I said in my previous post, people think they are more interesting than they actually are. If they want "privacy" then don't use gmail. In fact don't use any email.

[ethernet76]

Whlie GMail has some neat features, overall it isn't that great.

Being on listservs I filled up my paultry 10 mb Kent State affords me with my POP account. The 1 GB will probably be for me the best benefit, and will keep me using it even though the interface isn't as simple or as great as the one Kent State provides.

Just look at the interface of Gmail service, design wise, it's cluttered and a bit text heavy. Even when you turn off the snippets as I've done.

I understand this was probably done to cut down on the amount of bandwidth used, but it's a little too much for me. Some well placed styling could easily incrase the visual appeal while keeping bandwith at a minimum. One pixel files aren't that heavy on load, and when cached don't really ad that much at all.

Of course what I believe would be optimal would be to be able to customize your account and use a template. Either one you can create yourself, or a preselected one.

[the_mole1314]

I totally agree. I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. I am also concerned that more people aren't making an issue of this. I guess the 1gig sweetner is too much of a tempting bribe for many. IMO they have no right to read/scan people's mail no matter what they offer. I'm sure most people who use it will soon forget that their mail is being scanned.

Do you actually read posts? The emails are SCANNED for certain words relating to advertisements, even then, only mabey 1 out of 3 emails has an ad in it. Google by no means remembers, nor keeps track of, anything in your emails when they scan it for ads. If you are so offended by it, then stop using these boards, the software scans your message for smilie text to convert it to an image, same for AIM and AOL. YAHOO and Hotmail do the same with attachments and also for spam scanning. I have a gmail account and thought this was a brilliant idea, no records are kept of the scanning, just like when you do a Google search and get AdSense or Related Pages info to the side of your search.

[the_mole1314]

Thank you for the "clarification".
The emails are scanned, information is gleaned from them, that information is then exploited for marketing purposes. That's an invasion of privacy, voluntary or not. While I am expressing an opinion about the ethics of Gmail, you are merely stating that you accept the logisitics of it.

Now we see your real problem, not that the email is scanned, but just that ads are used. It's not an invasion of privacy. Why? YOU AGREE TO IT IN THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. If Google went into your regular mail and look in it without your permission, then by all means, that's an invasion of privacy. Before you start throwing around law, read it first.

[oldschool]

Do you actually read posts? The emails are SCANNED for certain words relating to advertisements, even then, only mabey 1 out of 3 emails has an ad in it. Google by no means remembers, nor keeps track of, anything in your emails when they scan it for ads. If you are so offended by it, then stop using these boards, the software scans your message for smilie text to convert it to an image, same for AIM and AOL. YAHOO and Hotmail do the same with attachments and also for spam scanning. I have a gmail account and thought this was a brilliant idea, no records are kept of the scanning, just like when you do a Google search and get AdSense or Related Pages info to the side of your search.

exactly. just look at the bottom of this page. chances are google has scanned your posts and put up relevant ads.

[sjk]

We will probably have to pay hard cash for our privacy in the near future.Yeah, like paying to keep your phone number unlisted (at least with every major phone company I've had service with in the US).

For me Gmail will likely be most useful for mailing list archives, most which are already available online anyway (with interfaces I dislike) so I don't care how Google wants to scan them. I'll stick with other services (e.g. FastMail) for my personal e-mail.

Oh, it doesn't take long to crash Safari using Gmail so most of my testing has been with Firefox.

[Mac Dummy]

MacCentral interviews (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/04/25/gmail/index.php?redirect=1082962842000) Google co-founder Sergey Brin who promises support for Safari for Google's newest service, Gmail, before it is publicly released.

Gmail (https://gmail.google.com) is a webmail service which allows users to keep up to 1GB of messages, allowing users to search and organize them.

While the current Beta does not officially support Safari, users have been able log in with some success.

Gmail: Screenshots (http://gorman.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=150807)

I wonder when Gmail will come out of Beta?