GOP Fought Pandemic Preparedness

[rdowns]

Oops. (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/430261)


When House Appropriations Committee chairman David Obey, the Wisconsin Democrat who has long championed investment in pandemic preparation, included roughly $900 million for that purpose in this year's emergency stimulus bill, he was ridiculed by conservative operatives and congressional Republicans.

[mactastic]

Just more proof that God hates Republicans. This, of course, comes right on the heels of rising GOP star Bobby "exorcism" Jindahl mocking volcano monitoring mere weeks before as Alaskan volcano erupted.

And, of course, to be fair, there were Democrats who took up this Rove talking point and helped strip pandemic preparedness from the stimulus package.

Playing politics with your health... Thanks folks!

[joepunk]

From the Huffington Post: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/gop-stripped-flu-pandemic_n_191732.html)

Famously, Maine Senator Collins, the supposedly moderate Republican who demanded cuts in health care spending in exchange for her support of a watered-down version of the stimulus, fumed about the pandemic funding: "Does it belong in this bill? Should we have $870 million in this bill No, we should not."
Even now, Collins continues to use her official website (http://collins.senate.gov/public/continue.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Articles&ContentRecord_id=46D6E846-802A-23AD-4CCD-8F37BC42D004&CFID=12335284&CFTOKEN=37137166) to highlight the fact that she led the fight to strip the pandemic preparedness money out of the Senate's version of the stimulus measure.

And Here's a google map of H1N1 Swine Flu (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=p&msa=0&msid=106484775090296685271.0004681a37b713f6b5950&ll=38.822591,-93.691406&spn=47.371802,87.890625&z=3&source=embed) cases.

[Zombie Acorn]

Pandemic preparedness should have been passed in another bill. No reason for it to be part of an emergency stimulus bill.

[NT1440]

Pandemic preparedness should have been passed in another bill. No reason for it to be part of an emergency stimulus bill.

So things arent going to get done anymore in the name of "it should have been done before?". Heres the reality, IT WASNT DONE BEFORE.

[mactastic]

Pandemic preparedness should have been passed in another bill. No reason for it to be part of an emergency stimulus bill.
Wrong. Obey specifically noted in adding this item to the stimulus bill that this needed to be included because of the specific risk of a pandemic striking while the economy was in such dire straits. The effect of businesses suddenly losing employees as they either become sick themselves, or are faced with caring for children that either become infected or attend a school where a potential virus strikes is directly tied to stimulating the economy. Kinda difficult to stimulate the economy when your employees aren't able to come to work.

No, this was just a political move, attempting to paint Democrats as wasteful spenders; just as Jindahl's criticism of volcano monitoring was. And just like the volcano monitoring issue, it has backfired.

Democrats would be smart to hammer this one home repeatedly.

[Eanair]

Pandemic preparedness should have been passed in another bill. No reason for it to be part of an emergency stimulus bill.

From the original article link:

Obey and other advocates for the spending argued, correctly, that a pandemic hitting in the midst of an economic downturn could turn a recession into something far worse -- with workers ordered to remain in their homes, workplaces shuttered to avoid the spread of disease, transportation systems grinding to a halt and demand for emergency services and public health interventions skyrocketing. Indeed, they suggested, pandemic preparation was essential to any responsible plan for renewing the U.S. economy.

Makes sense to me.

[Zombie Acorn]

Wrong. Obey specifically noted in adding this item to the stimulus bill that this needed to be included because of the specific risk of a pandemic striking while the economy was in such dire straits. The effect of businesses suddenly losing employees as they either become sick themselves, or are faced with caring for children that either become infected or attend a school where a potential virus strikes is directly tied to stimulating the economy. Kinda difficult to stimulate the economy when your employees aren't able to come to work.

No, this was just a political move, attempting to paint Democrats as wasteful spenders; just as Jindahl's criticism of volcano monitoring was. And just like the volcano monitoring issue, it has backfired.

Democrats would be smart to hammer this one home repeatedly.

The probabilities were low enough that I would not consider it for a stimulation tactic, we could also justify money for many other projects that are not truly stimulative just because there is some probability that they would happen and in some way have a negative impact on the economy.

The stimulus bill should have been a targeted strike on the economy; pandemics, earthquakes, volcanoes, and apocalypses should be dealt with on a case by case basis.

[skunk]

pandemics, earthquakes, volcanoes, and apocalypses should be dealt with on a case by case basis.You mean after they happen, right?

[Zombie Acorn]

You mean after they happen, right?

The government already has agencies in place for disease prevention, if a pandemic happens we are already prepared to close our borders, shut down schools, etc. Not sure what else you really want the US to do, we usually hear about a potential pandemic well before it happens and its not like you can stockpile vaccines before you know what the virus is going to be (especially since the strain is usually mutated).

As for the volcano/earthquake danger areas, the state can tax for those programs, I personally don't live near an active volcano because I don't want to die.

[joepunk]

The government already has agencies in place for disease prevention, if a pandemic happens we are already prepared to close our borders, shut down schools, etc. ...

I seem to remember a Government Organization already in place for emergencies. Oh what is it called? FEMA, that's it! And they did such a great job during and after Hurricane Katrina.

[mactastic]

The probabilities were low enough that I would not consider it for a stimulation tactic, we could also justify money for many other projects that are not truly stimulative just because there is some probability that they would happen and in some way have a negative impact on the economy.

The stimulus bill should have been a targeted strike on the economy; pandemics, earthquakes, volcanoes, and apocalypses should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Yeah, "no one could have predicted...", right? Seems to be the mantra of the right these past few years.

Not to mention, how is pandemic preparedness NOT stimulative? Presumably it would involve stocking supplies that would have to be purchased from manufacturers, employing emergency preparedness managers to produce contingency plans, training emergency workers and volunteers (someone's gotta train them, right?), updating communication links, and a host of other tasks that all require someone to work on them. Which, of course, is the definition of "stimulative".

On a related note, it sure would be nice to have a HHS Secretary (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2009_record&page=S4604&position=all):
The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tem-pore. Is there objection?

Mr. MCCONNELL. Madam President, reserving the right to object, this nomination came out of committee yesterday. It was fairly contentious. It was not a party-line vote, but a number of Members on my side opposed the nomination. So at least for today, I am not able to enter into a consent agreement on a time specific to consider the nomination of Governor Sebelius. I object.

The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objection is heard.

Mr. REID. Madam President, we need not quibble on the time. It came out Tuesday or Wednesday, and I understand people may want to look at this more closely. That is fine. It appears to me it wouldn’t do me any good or the Senate any good to ask for more time at this time. No matter what time I set aside, the Republican leader couldn’t agree now?

Mr. MCCONNELL. I would say to my friend, the majority leader, I cannot today agree to a time specific for consideration of this nomination.

[mactastic]

As for the volcano/earthquake danger areas, the state can tax for those programs, I personally don't live near an active volcano because I don't want to die.
Presumably you also do not live in an earthquake zone, tornado-affected area, hurricane zone, wildfire zone, nor flood plain?

[Zombie Acorn]

Yeah, "no one could have predicted...", right? Seems to be the mantra of the right these past few years.

Not to mention, how is pandemic preparedness NOT stimulative? Presumably it would involve stocking supplies that would have to be purchased from manufacturers, employing emergency preparedness managers to produce contingency plans, training emergency workers and volunteers (someone's gotta train them, right?), updating communication links, and a host of other tasks that all require someone to work on them. Which, of course, is the definition of "stimulative".

On a related note, it sure would be nice to have a HHS Secretary (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2009_record&page=S4604&position=all):

That sounds more like a long term plan with an indefinite ending to me, the purpose of a government stimulus is to shore up the private sector in the short term until it can get back on its feet.

Nursing/med professionals are already qualified to give vaccinations and we wouldn't have a plan to administer them until the vaccine was created anyways. The US already has plans locally and federally to deal with disease outbreaks. Even Mexico has plans that are being currently implemented to stop the spread of the disease.

The CDC hasn't even decided whether to start stockpiling vaccines for this potential pandemic yet last that I heard.

[mactastic]

That sounds more like a long term plan with an indefinite ending to me, the purpose of a government stimulus is to shore up the private sector in the short term until it can get back on its feet.

Nursing/med professionals are already qualified to give vaccinations and we wouldn't have a plan to administer them until the vaccine was created anyways. The US already has plans locally and federally to deal with disease outbreaks. Even Mexico has plans that are being currently implemented to stop the spread of the disease.

The CDC hasn't even decided whether to start stockpiling vaccines for this potential pandemic yet last that I heard.
The idea, if I understand Obey correctly, was to pump that money into the economy immediately. It could certainly -- and hopefully was -- a part of a long-term plan, but this was money that would have been spent over the next 12 - 24 months that would have provided insurance against a pandemic destroying what the rest of the stimulus package was doing, as well as stimulating the preparedness sectors of the economy at the same time.

The point of preparedness isn't to protect specifically from the swine flu, it's to be prepared for a whole host of pandemic threats, including H5N1 which has long been known to be a threat.

[Shivetya]

Lets add some perspective

Mexico has 1300 or so cases of "Swine Flu". Mexico's population is nearly 110,000,00 people.

What defines a pandemic these days?

[Eraserhead]

Lets add some perspective

Mexico has 1300 or so cases of "Swine Flu". Mexico's population is nearly 110,000,00 people.

What defines a pandemic these days?

Its much bigger than SARS.

[Eanair]

The government already has agencies in place for disease prevention, if a pandemic happens we are already prepared to close our borders, shut down schools, etc. Not sure what else you really want the US to do, we usually hear about a potential pandemic well before it happens and its not like you can stockpile vaccines before you know what the virus is going to be (especially since the strain is usually mutated).


You can stockpile anti-viral medicines.

The WHO considers the UK well prepared (relative to the US) to deal with an influenza pandemic, and the UK only has enough anti-viral drugs for half the population.

Additionally, the labs need to have the facilities and funding to be able to create vaccines once vaccines are able to be manufactured.

[mactastic]

Lets add some perspective

Mexico has 1300 or so cases of "Swine Flu". Mexico's population is nearly 110,000,00 people.

What defines a pandemic these days?
Three things: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic)
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), a pandemic can start when three conditions have been met:[1]
Emergence of a disease new to a population.
Agents infect humans, causing serious illness.
Agents spread easily and sustainably among humans.
A disease or condition is not a pandemic merely because it is widespread or kills many people; it must also be infectious. For instance, cancer is responsible for many deaths but is not considered a pandemic, because the disease is not infectious or contagious.

[Eanair]

Lets add some perspective

Mexico has 1300 or so cases of "Swine Flu". Mexico's population is nearly 110,000,00 people.

What defines a pandemic these days?

A pandemic is a [human] disease that is present over a wide geographical spread (affecting many peoples in multiple regions of the world), as opposed to an epidemic that's geographically contained. A pandemic, in addition to meeting geographical guidelines, must also meet ALL three of these conditions: emergence of a new disease (including new strain of a disease), the infectious agents have been demonstrated to cause serious illness in humans, and the infectious agents can spread human-to human.

This new influenza strain does meet all the requirements to be called a pandemic:

1. Present in multiple regions of the world
2. New strain (a/H1N1 with unprecedented mixture of avian, swine, and human proteins)
3. This strain has been confirmed to cause death
4. As the pandemic level has been raised today from 3 to 4, that means there is confirmed evidence the agent can spread directly from human to human, and not just human-to-human, but SUSTAINED human-to-human infection.

A disease is not a pandemic just because it kills many people.

[Ugg]

What defines a pandemic these days?

Do you not understand what a pandemic is?

The definition hasn't changed, however the ability to quickly disseminate information has.

[Desertrat]

Back to the subject. :) What would have been the rate of spending of the proposed money? What is the present annual budget for the CDC and its anti-pandemic measures?

According to a CNN article, today, this particular flu bug is new, and it is not known if present vaccines would be useful. It is said that the bug has been identified and that vaccine development is underway--but it will take four to five months to have the new vaccine in quantity.

Assuming that CDC/WHO data for the article is factual, what good would the proposed pandemic money have done or could do? Napolitano says that the raise to Threat Level 4 (or whatever terminology) frees up funds for the anti-pandemic effort. That means that funds are already available.

It looks like that this Pandemic-$$$ could be one of those Good Things which is not really needed at this point in time, given the available funding.

[NT1440]

Why does everyone assume a vaccine is the immediate route of action? Anti viral medications are a huge part of this.

[Ugg]

Why does everyone assume a vaccine is the immediate route of action? Anti viral medications are a huge part of this.

If bacterial pneumonia is a consequence of swine flu, then massive amounts will be needed of antibiotics.

As far as Rat's maybe the money isn't needed right now, Of course, we'll only know that when it's all over. The very nature of flu is too unpredictable to know in the first few weeks as to how serious it will be.

[bobber205]

Well duh.

The GOP these days fight against everything that makes sense.

[mactastic]

Back to the subject. :) What would have been the rate of spending of the proposed money? What is the present annual budget for the CDC and its anti-pandemic measures?

According to a CNN article, today, this particular flu bug is new, and it is not known if present vaccines would be useful. It is said that the bug has been identified and that vaccine development is underway--but it will take four to five months to have the new vaccine in quantity.

Assuming that CDC/WHO data for the article is factual, what good would the proposed pandemic money have done or could do? Napolitano says that the raise to Threat Level 4 (or whatever terminology) frees up funds for the anti-pandemic effort. That means that funds are already available.

It looks like that this Pandemic-$$$ could be one of those Good Things which is not really needed at this point in time, given the available funding.
In all likelihood it would have had little effect on this outbreak. But then again, neither would the funding for volcano monitoring that Jindahl mocked just before the Alaskan volcano erupted. And who knows, if this outbreak occurred 6 months from now, maybe it would have helped. But that's not the point. The GOP routinely picks these kinds of items out and uses them to ridicule Democrats as wasteful spenders. When you play that game, you leave yourself open to ridicule when the things you decry as wasteful spending suddenly become important. Karl Rove wasn't opposing pandemic preparation funding because he thought it was unnecessary, he was opposing it because it could be used as a political cudgel against the opposition. He was -- just as Jindahl was -- banking on there not being an outbreak in any kind of near-term timeframe (just as many in the GOP are banking on there being a terrorist attack during the Obama administration). If he hadn't been playing politics with this issue, it wouldn't be an issue.

[kastenbrust]

Does noone else find it suspious that the perfect flu virus, magically combining all the dangerous traits of human, avian and swine flu, originates in the middle of mexico, during the early summer season when disease spread tends to be minimal but over the largest area?

[leekohler]

Well duh.

The GOP these days fight against everything that makes sense.

They always do. They're always behind the times, they rarely look ahead.

[mactastic]

Does noone else find it suspious that the perfect flu virus, magically combining all the dangerous traits of human, avian and swine flu, originates in the middle of mexico, during the early summer season when disease spread tends to be minimal but over the largest area?
Oh, you're not alone. Rush Limbaugh (http://current.com/items/90002391_limbaugh-obama-goes-to-mexico-they-get-pig-flu.htm) also finds it suspicious:
"[E]verywhere Obama is spreading Obamaism, there is a deadly disease taking place, either in the TARP community or in the newspaper business," he said. "Obama goes to Mexico -- they have an earthquake. Obama goes to Mexico -- get pig flu."

[Desertrat]

mac, I run across articles like this,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087436467761251.html

which says in part,

"Swine flu has presented the Obama administration with its first major public-health crisis. Fortunately for the Obama team, the Bush administration developed new tools that will prove critical in meeting this challenge.

Under President Bush, the federal government worked with manufacturers to accelerate vaccine development, stockpiled crucial antivirals like Tamiflu, war-gamed pandemic scenarios with senior officials, and increased the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) sample identification capabilities. These activities are bearing fruit today.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has already deployed 12.5 million courses of antivirals -- out of a total of 50 million -- to states and local agencies. In addition, CDC's new capacities have allowed Mexican officials to send flu samples to CDC for quick identification, a capability that did not exist a few years ago. Collaboration between the government and the private sector on vaccines -- which Mr. Bush and his HHS team actively encouraged -- could potentially allow manufacturers to shepherd a vaccine to market within four months of identifying the strain and getting the go-ahead from CDC or the World Health Organization."

It seems to me that this particular money in a stimulus package, at this point in time insofar as existing money problems, won't stimulate. Further, it's sort of, "Well, let's just throw a bunch of money at it, and hope something good happens."

It seems to me that we assess the results of the existing capability, and we then add money as necessary. For all any of us know, ten or a hundred million $$$ of planned usage will do as much good as a near-billion of "just because" money.

[mactastic]

mac, I run across articles like this,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087436467761251.html

which says in part,

"Swine flu has presented the Obama administration with its first major public-health crisis. Fortunately for the Obama team, the Bush administration developed new tools that will prove critical in meeting this challenge.

Under President Bush, the federal government worked with manufacturers to accelerate vaccine development, stockpiled crucial antivirals like Tamiflu, war-gamed pandemic scenarios with senior officials, and increased the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) sample identification capabilities. These activities are bearing fruit today.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has already deployed 12.5 million courses of antivirals -- out of a total of 50 million -- to states and local agencies. In addition, CDC's new capacities have allowed Mexican officials to send flu samples to CDC for quick identification, a capability that did not exist a few years ago. Collaboration between the government and the private sector on vaccines -- which Mr. Bush and his HHS team actively encouraged -- could potentially allow manufacturers to shepherd a vaccine to market within four months of identifying the strain and getting the go-ahead from CDC or the World Health Organization."
I certainly never argued that the Bush administration didn't take steps to address pandemic concerns. My point was that Rove, and others who followed his lead (including Chuck Schumer :rolleyes:) were simply playing politics, using the "democrats are wasteful spenders" line of attack against a popular president and popular stimulus package. It's all part of "the party of NO" strategy that they have deployed in the wake of Obama's election. Anything Democrats support, the GOP opposes, and in this case (and in the aforementioned volcano monitoring issue), it has come back to bite them in the ass. It was stupid politics, and maybe they'll think twice about opposing such things reflexively next time. Although I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to wise up.

It seems to me that this particular money in a stimulus package, at this point in time insofar as existing money problems, won't stimulate. Further, it's sort of, "Well, let's just throw a bunch of money at it, and hope something good happens."

It seems to me that we assess the results of the existing capability, and we then add money as necessary. For all any of us know, ten or a hundred million $$$ of planned usage will do as much good as a near-billion of "just because" money.
See post #12 regarding stimulative effects. This money would be both stimulative in the short term, and bolster long-term precautionary measures. The argument that buying additional vaccines, providing additional training for first responders and hospitals, and the like isn't stimulative is baloney. It takes working folks to perform those tasks.

[Shivetya]

Its much bigger than SARS.

Not its not.

Its slow. SARS spread a lot faster and people over reacted.

Plus the OP's quote was a lie anyway... but whatever... have fun.

[mactastic]

Not its not.

Its slow. SARS spread a lot faster and people over reacted.

Plus the OP's quote was a lie anyway... but whatever... have fun.
SARS was also much more effective at killing it's host, making it less of a threat of spreading. A good pandemic virus doesn't kill so effectively, leaving the host to continue spreading the disease around.

[heron88]

All I can say is seal the border now.

[Ugg]

All I can say is seal the border now.

It's too late.

[heron88]

Why? Because Napolitano said so? Prevent more infected persons from entering. Just because say 1000 infected people have gotten in, doesnt mean we should let that number rise to 10,000. (I dont know what the actual figures are, but you get the point)

[Zombie Acorn]

All I can say is seal the border now.

Even if we did seal the official border there are going to be droves of them crossing illegally to get away from the epidemic. Our borders are not secure by any stretch of the imagination.

[NT1440]

All I can say is seal the border now.

Yup, its "dem illegals" that are causing this. :rolleyes:

[Zombie Acorn]

Yup, its "dem illegals" that are causing this. :rolleyes:

Actually it has been reported to have originated in Mexico. :confused:

[yg17]

Actually it has been reported to have originated in Mexico. :confused:

Originated in Mexico and brought into the US by a group of catholic high school students from New York City who legally traveled to Mexico for spring break and legally re-entered the US because they were all legal residents of the US.

Damn illegals! :rolleyes:

[hulugu]

Originated in Mexico and brought into the US by a group of catholic high school students from New York City who legally traveled to Mexico for spring break and legally re-entered the US because they were all legal residents of the US.

Damn illegals! :rolleyes:

Damn Catholics!

[Counterfit]

Do you not understand what a pandemic is?

I never knew the actual definition until I read it in this thread... :confused:

[rdowns]

First swine flu death in U.S. reported (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/29/swine.flu/index.html)


ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A child in Texas has become the first fatality from swine flu in the United States, the acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday.


Five-year-old Edgar Hernandez, known as "patient zero" survived the earliest documented case of swine flu.

"I can confirm the very sad news out of Texas that a child has died of the H1N1 virus," the CDC's Dr. Richard Besser said.

As confirmed cases of swine flu have risen to at least 112, health officials think they may have found "patient zero" in the global outbreak -- in a small village in the mountains of Mexico.

[heron88]

I'm not blaming illegals. When I say seal the border, I mean, no one in, no one out. Isolate Mexico until this is resolved

[Peterkro]

I'm not blaming illegals. When I say seal the border, I mean, no one in, no one out. Isolate Mexico until this is resolved

That would be isolating the US not Mexico.

[Desertrat]

mac, I generally just sorta shrug when folks go to "playing politics". There's usually some tradeoff wanted, some sort of cooperation on earmarks or a wanting of a headline. "It's what they do."

I disagree about the stimulus part, though. The stated idea of the stimulus was for creation of new jobs, or to maintain jobs that otherwise would be lost. Neither would apply in this case. Workloads would be increased for the existing jobs, but I really doubt there would be much in the way of new hires.

It looks like the various governments and health groups have managed to get people's attention to do one important thing: Self-isolation and masks in the problem areas. (Unfortunately, in Mexico City, three guys wearing their blue protective masks robbed a jewelry store.) The guesstimate seems to be that it will have run its course in a few more weeks.

Somewhere in the realm of idle curiosity: I wonder if there is any particular ethnic vulnerability, or if it's merely personal health which affects the seriousness. When I was in the TB ward fifty years ago, slender blonds, Indians and Asians were said to be the most vulnerable. Mediteranean backgrounds were generally milder cases. But, I dunno...

'Rat

[leekohler]

Not its not.

Its slow. SARS spread a lot faster and people over reacted.

Plus the OP's quote was a lie anyway... but whatever... have fun.

One of these days you'll learn to debate intelligently and without insults, but I'll probably be dead before that happens.

[iPhoneNYC]

The GOP just needs to pick on things. They have forgotten they they are to supposed to govern. Public health is a crucial part of government. They're lost.

[Zombie Acorn]

Originated in Mexico and brought into the US by a group of catholic high school students from New York City who legally traveled to Mexico for spring break and legally re-entered the US because they were all legal residents of the US.

Damn illegals! :rolleyes:

That wasn't the only case of swine flu, someone else was traveling from Mexico to Disney land from what I heard. Either way if the swine flu does take off there will be an influx of illegals trying to get out of Mexico.

[Eanair]

Somewhere in the realm of idle curiosity: I wonder if there is any particular ethnic vulnerability, or if it's merely personal health which affects the seriousness. When I was in the TB ward fifty years ago, slender blonds, Indians and Asians were said to be the most vulnerable. Mediteranean backgrounds were generally milder cases. But, I dunno...



As far as I know, there isn't an ethnic or racial disparity for influenza. I could be wrong, but I remember when doing a seminar about influenza for an immunology class that I didn't happen upon any research (at that time, which was years ago) that claimed any ethnic or racial discrepancies. Infection vulnerability was more regarding your living conditions, access to healthcare, and immune system stength (so, age can come into play).

[mactastic]

mac, I generally just sorta shrug when folks go to "playing politics". There's usually some tradeoff wanted, some sort of cooperation on earmarks or a wanting of a headline. "It's what they do."
Well, you're half right... you just sorta shrug when a Republican plays politics.

I disagree about the stimulus part, though. The stated idea of the stimulus was for creation of new jobs, or to maintain jobs that otherwise would be lost. Neither would apply in this case. Workloads would be increased for the existing jobs, but I really doubt there would be much in the way of new hires.
An increase in drug production can't happen without additional hours spent on the production lines. That means either not cutting hours that were planned to be cut, or adding additional hours. Either way, that's work that wouldn't exist without that money. So what's a drugmaker to do? Boost part-timers back up to full time, or hire new workers. Thus, stimulative.

I find it hard to believe you you could increase existing workloads by $900,000,000 without needing more workers. And even if you could, you'd be talking about significant amounts of overtime for the existing workers, who would then have money to spend hiring gardeners and buying big-screen tvs, and all the other goodies that come with an increase in income. And of course, you need salespersons and manufacturers and shippers and warehousers and gardeners and handyfolks to install the goodies etc.

[Ugg]

That wasn't the only case of swine flu, someone else was traveling from Mexico to Disney land from what I heard. Either way if the swine flu does take off there will be an influx of illegals trying to get out of Mexico.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of Hondurans, Nicaraguans and other Americans are headed home too.

What's your point really?

Forensic pathology takes time to establish "Point Zero" so we probably won't know for some time where it began.

This isn't the 19th century where we can pinpoint with any exactitude what ship brought the Cholera epidemic to North America in the 1830s. It's only now, 25 years after Aids became epidemic that we have discovered that it had been passed to humans back in the late 1800s.

Point Zero for the misnamed Spanish flu epidemic of 1918-19 was Kansas.

So far the biggest conduit for the disease has been the tourist trade. There are also a lot of temporary workers who are in the US legally who go back and forth with some regularity. It's very possible that the virus was picked up in the US by contact with disease ridden Americans and brought down to Mexico.

[Peterkro]

It's very possible that the virus was picked up in the US by contact with disease ridden Americans and brought down to Mexico.

If you were a US citizen you'd probably be charged with treason for that and indeed possibly suffer from some cruel and unusual punishment.Interesting point about the Kansas pandemic by the way.:D

[heron88]

That would be isolating the US not Mexico.

Sorry for being unclear. What I mean by that is no one goes to mexico, no one comes from mexico. Canada, and people from Asia/Europe would still be allowed. It wouldnt stop new cases, but it would slow the spread of it. I'm also for building a massive wall, but of course this is controversial.

[BigHungry04]

We don't need to worry until some of us start dreaming about a dude in Las Vegas and/or an old lady in Nebraska.

[Ugg]

Sorry for being unclear. What I mean by that is no one goes to mexico, no one comes from mexico. Canada, and people from Asia/Europe would still be allowed. It wouldnt stop new cases, but it would slow the spread of it. I'm also for building a massive wall, but of course this is controversial.

You would destroy the global economy in a matter of weeks.