15inch iMac Production

[arn]

Digitimes (http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2002/08/22&pages=01&seq=1) is reporting that Apple will stop 15" iMacs production come October.

The move is meant to make room for an upgrade to the 17-inch liquid-crystal display (LCD) monitor, they said, but more importantly, to allow Apple to reduce inventory accumulated from more positive days.


The article is vague regarding the final outcome of this move -- but appears to be due to decreased demand rather than an actual discontinuation of the 15" model.

[8thDegreeSavage]

Cool!

[mcrain]

Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage
Cool!

Sorry, but that isn't "cool." High demand and computers flying off the shelf is cool. The discontinuation of a computer because of poor demand and stagnant inventories is definately not cool.

[chubakka]

it could mean they're just converting to all 17 inch iMacs...

[oldMac]

Fact is, that 15" iMacs just aren't selling.

Nobody wants to spend $1400 on a machine with a 15" monitor no matter how cool it looks. And, it's hard to convince them that a 15" LCD actually gives you more real estate than a 15" CRT. It just doesn't "make sense" to the consumer.

The 17" model is surely selling much better.

If they offered eMacs in multiple colors, they'd probably sell better too regardless of the aesthetic du jour at Apple.

[vniow]

I hope they don't, I'd rather see the 15" be discounted than extinguished. Apple tends to do this, they tend to discontinue or fade out a low-end product to make room for the higher end ones when what they could do is diffirentiate the two better. If I were in the market for a new iMac, the 17" screen wouln't be the only thing I'd be looking at.
Maybe what they're doing is positioning the eMac in place of the low-end iMac, which would be a better solution. :)

[lazyrighteye]

Did I read somewhere (or was it just a dream)... is Apple moving to an all LCD flat panel, wide angle only display scheme?

Our field of vision is not square. Why work in a box?

Down with the square,
lazyrighteye

[mcrain]

I finally saw the imacs and emac in person, and sorry, but the emac is even worse looking than the original imac.

No offense or anything, but I can tell you many, many other pc users see the original imac or now the emac, and suffer from abdominal cramping.

(edit) that came across as off topic, but what I was trying to get at is that the 15" imac is a far superior machine as a low end mac than the emac. Even though it may be less durable (for bratty kids), it is a far more aesthetically pleasing machine.

[chubakka]

PC users gaging at an eMac? Look at a gateway or compaque lately? eeek

But the 15inch iMac is better looking... my point was is that LCD prices are dropping... the 17inch iMac may be the full line up... from DVD superdrive on down to the low-end... same prices as 15inch.

[carta]

Surely the original iMac beats the eMac in any beauty contest. I think that's due to the simplicity of the eMac's case, with it's lack of distinguishing details other than the elementary school charm of the big speakers and big optical drive door.

But boy, he/she's got it where it counts. For $1299 you can have it with 1 GB of RAM. Although 1 GB might be overkill for the speed of the processor to handle typical tasks, like Photoshop renderings or MP3 conversions. Dunno.

But it appears you can get a lot for a little with the eMac.

[vniow]

Originally posted by mcrain
I finally saw the imacs and emac in person, and sorry, but the emac is even worse looking than the original imac.

No offense or anything, but I can tell you many, many other pc users see the original imac or now the emac, and suffer from abdominal cramping.

(edit) that came across as off topic, but what I was trying to get at is that the 15" imac is a far superior machine as a low end mac than the emac. Even though it may be less durable (for bratty kids), it is a far more aesthetically pleasing machine.

I'll have to agree with you, but this is what seems to be happening. Apple's moving away from pretty computers and heading towards function. The eMac came out of nowhere and blurred the lines between it and the iMac, specwise at least. The iMac may be the better looking machine, but if I were just looking at the specs, I'd have to choose the eMac. 17" screen, 800Mhz G4, and a Superdrive for $1499! Now in reality, the 17" isn't a widescreen and it's viewable area may be only 16", but that's not how they're marketing it. I'd rather see them deeply discount the 15" iMac (but not past the eMac for education) and market it as the right-above-eMac consumer machine.

[barkmonster]

If they discontinue the 15" iMac that should mean that the 15" LCD Monitor should be going too. I'm sure with the huge stocks of LCD displays apple would have to buy to bring out a 17" only line of iMacs would pass the cost down to the monitors aswell.

15" for over £500 is a joke when you can get a branded 17" LCD for that.

17" for over £800 is also overpriced, replace it with a 19" 16:9 display and it's worth it without being too cheap.

[chubakka]

I think they have some rebate thing going on thier LCDs right now...
buy a G4 and get $100 - $200 off... depending on the size of course.

[Shrek]

Quote from the Digitimes article
. . .to increasing demand for larger flat-panel monitors.

Cool! Maybe this means that a 19-inch iMac is on the way! :D

[Shrek]

Another quote from the Digitimes article
These companies have enjoyed a healthy profit manufacturing the iMac due to its complex design, which takes more than 100 steps to assemble. But that may be changing soon, as Apple has pressured suppliers to lower costs, paving the way for future price cuts.

This is very good news! GO APPLE!!! :D :D :D

[Megaquad]

There was no 15" iMac revision since January! No wonder sales are low. Those things are really slow.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Megaquad
There was no 15" iMac revision since January! No wonder sales are low. Those things are really slow.

they're not really slow by any means....

they're consumer machines. that's that.

still, there should've been an update other than the monitor....

[vniow]

Okay, here's what I'd like for Apple to do with their next big releases:

1. If they're going to release new displays, please make them dual input, preferably a seperate VGA because not everybody has a digital output yet (the CRT's not dead yet Steve), and that's the only thing keeping me from buying one is because you can only hook up one frelling motitor to it. All other LCD's with similar specs and quality have more than one input, but Apple has to think different and only put one connector on it and of course it has to be their specific design. Yes I know there is a VGA to ADC adapter out there, but it's $400 (choke, hack, cough) and it still only supports one connection. There are also ADC switchboxes out there, but for the price of one of those, I can buy a refurbished 15".

1.5: Either #1 or come out with a multilik adapter like SGI did with the 1600sw. It had DVI and VGA inputs and an Open LDI output which hooked up to the monitor.

2. Don't get rid of the 15" iMac, just lower the price down some. If you are going to discontinue it, make sure the low-end 17" is the same price as the previous 15" People aren't going for your over priced and under powered computers anymore. If you want some more switchers and a bit more marketshare, you're going to have to give up some of your 30% profit margins.

Sorry for the long and somewhat off-topic rant, but Apple's going to have to compromise if it wants more marketshare.:)

[Pin-Fisher]

Im sorry....but after getting my new 17" iMac I am EXTREMELY dissapointed. It is NOT!! I repeat NOT a 17" monitor WITH widescreen it IS a 15" monitor stretched so they can measure diagonally and say its a 17" monitor. Don't beleive me?? GO measure the height of a 17" Mac LCD screen and then measure the height of the iMac...Notice a big difference?? Yep the sure as hell is....It a load of marketing doo doo. I know, I have one..and I'm not very happy. Its just not right to advertise them like that!!

I still have 7 dyas to return it.....and yes its that bad!!

[arn]

Originally posted by Pin-Fisher
I repeat NOT a 17" monitor WITH widescreen it IS a 15" monitor stretched so they can measure diagonally and say its a 17" monitor.

That's what a "17" monitor" means. 17" measured from corner to corner. Now, it may get a little hazy with the whole widescreen... but that's what I would expect. 17" from corner to corner = 17" screen.

...and for CRT's, that doesn't mean 17" viewable space.. just that the tube is 17inches.

arn

[TyleRomeo]

Originally posted by arn


That's what a "17" monitor" means. 17" measured from corner to corner. Now, it may get a little hazy with the whole widescreen... but that's what I would expect. 17" from corner to corner = 17" screen.

...and for CRT's, that doesn't mean 17" viewable space.. just that the tube is 17inches.

arn

thank you arn for clearing that up to him. so many people don't understand how a monitor is measured. grrrrrrrrr

[crassusad44]

Originally posted by Pin-Fisher
Im sorry....but after getting my new 17" iMac I am EXTREMELY dissapointed. It is NOT!! I repeat NOT a 17" monitor WITH widescreen it IS a 15" monitor stretched so they can measure diagonally and say its a 17" monitor. Don't beleive me?? GO measure the height of a 17" Mac LCD screen and then measure the height of the iMac...Notice a big difference?? Yep the sure as hell is....It a load of marketing doo doo. I know, I have one..and I'm not very happy. Its just not right to advertise them like that!!

I still have 7 dyas to return it.....and yes its that bad!!

Hellloooooooo... Is Steve Ballmer taking your calls now??? What did you expect??? 17" WIDESCREEN, means 17" from corner to corner. No, it's not much higher than the 15", but it's h*ll of a lot w i d e r....

And the resolution is much better also (1440*900). Now go buy a Gateway with a 19" monitor with 1024*768 pixels and 69 Hz refresh rate!

[soilchmst]

For the last six months, the iMacs have been selling just a little bit less units than the rest of the entire Apple computer lineup combined. Jobs is my hero, people really like the new design. I think the entire line will move to 17 inch soon, but the iMacs are selling like hotcakes starting at just 1299 :D
As for my guess on what will come out at Paris: faster iBook, iPhone, and IBM Power4 powered Powermac Servers and Xserves :) :p I would guess there would be more, but I don't want to get your hopes up ;)

[solvs]

Originally posted by edvniow
Yes I know there is a VGA to ADC adapter out there, but it's $400 (choke, hack, cough) and it still only supports one connection. There are also ADC switchboxes out there, but for the price of one of those, I can buy a refurbished 15".


$400!!!

What kind of video card do you have? If it doesn't have an ADC connect, doesn't it have DVI? Most of the newer cards do, Mac and PC. A DVI to ADC adapter is only $150. Plus you can get an ATI Radeon 9000 with ADC retail. Also $150. Even if you have a PC, DVI to ADC is much cheaper. Most of the people who spend that much on an Apple Display have one of the 2 already.

Not that I disagree with you. Quite to the contrary, I completely agree. If nothing else than to be able to plug in 2 computers, or to sell more to the PC folks.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Pin-Fisher
Im sorry....but after getting my new 17" iMac I am EXTREMELY dissapointed. It is NOT!! I repeat NOT a 17" monitor WITH widescreen it IS a 15" monitor stretched so they can measure diagonally and say its a 17" monitor. Don't beleive me?? GO measure the height of a 17" Mac LCD screen and then measure the height of the iMac...Notice a big difference?? Yep the sure as hell is....It a load of marketing doo doo. I know, I have one..and I'm not very happy. Its just not right to advertise them like that!!

I still have 7 dyas to return it.....and yes its that bad!!

Gotta be a troll, right? You plunked down $2000 on the new iMac without having seen it in person?

15" imac: 1024 x 768 = 786,432 pixels
17" imac: 1440 x 900 = 1,296,000 pixels

that's 64% more pixels...

As a way of comparison, the 17" studio display, which costs $999 by itself or $799 with a powermac, has a 1280 x 1024 resolution which comes out to 1,310,720 pixels.

The whole diagonal measuring convention is not really applicable when you compare screens of different aspect ratios. The pixel count is more representative of what kind of desktop real estate you get. And in that regard, the 17" imac screen is pretty sweet. And it being widescreen makes it doubly sweeet for watching DVDs.

[vniow]

$400!!!

What kind of video card do you have? If it doesn't have an ADC connect, doesn't it have DVI? Most of the newer cards do, Mac and PC. A DVI to ADC adapter is only $150. Plus you can get an ATI Radeon 9000 with ADC retail. Also $150. Even if you have a PC, DVI to ADC is much cheaper. Most of the people who spend that much on an Apple Display have one of the 2 already.

Not that I disagree with you. Quite to the contrary, I completely agree. If nothing else than to be able to plug in 2 computers, or to sell more to the PC folks.


Oh, I have an ATI AIW Radeon with DVI out, I meant to say that for my future computer upgrades, I will need something with VGA input. I plan to have a HDTV card, and the only output they have is VGA (or component, but I don't need a 55" widescreen TV in my bedroom. The Cinemas have better resolution anywayz, which is more important for me.) But being able to switch from my future Mac which will have DVI out and my PC (hopefully with Linux once HDTV drivers are released for it) which will only have VGA out because of the loopback cable is a neccecity. If I had to choose right now, I'd have to go with SGI's 1600sw. If I had a little more money, I'd get the Sony GDM-FW900, but Samsung's 240T looks mighty tempting....
For people like me, Apple's otherwise great displays just don't cut it.

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by edvniow

1. If they're going to release new displays, please make them dual input, preferably a seperate VGA because not everybody has a digital output yet

This is cool for more than just people with only vga... Dell has some nice flat panel displays that have DVI, SVGA, Svideo, and composite inputs, and let you connect all of them up and switch by a front panel button.

This is awesome for people with more than one computer. I have a headless dell Linux box at work, that I ssh to, and I setenv DISPLAY to mac from. I would love to hook up that to a flat panel vga input, and hook my tibook to the dvi input.

So I agree 100%

[alfonsog]

I have a "new" 15" imac (800), I was at the apple store in tampa playing with the new 17" the other day. Now I prefer the 17" but I could see them keeping the 15" for the basic model. It would also be nice if you could upgrade the 15" to the 17" or whatever else they do by disconnecting the arm. However I figured the display paled in comparism next to the studio widescreens and the next mac I get I want to save and get the 23" or whatever huge new display is available and a powermac, although I don't really want a tower again. I liked the idea of a monitorless imac or something like the cube; that was a topic before the 17" was introduced. Since I got my imac (my first mac ever) in January I have been totally blown away by the os and all and everyone is greatly impressed by its cuteness level. Oh and by the way, while playing with the 17" imac they had sold 2 of the 15" imacs and an emac in about 15 minutes!

[jaguar451]

iMac 15" not selling 'cause not enough differentiation from eMac. iMac should be the "Prosumer" All in one. Differentiate from eMac, and would sell more. For example:

Faster bus - 133 or 167
Better graphics card
Faster Hard Drive
Faster G4
IR Port
PCMCIA for expandibility (Bluetooth, ...)
Dual Display (not just mirroring)
And when being really, really optimistic, DDR RAM with supporting bus - sub $1k machines on Wintel have DDR...)

Still more than enough differentiation from PowerMac (Dual CPUs, expandibility, graphics, monitor choices, L3 cache, etc) even if they have the same Mhz...

Although maybe the whole line goes 17", with the entry level iMac going up $100/$200 or so....

[DannyZR2]

Agreed..


I think that now that the towers have all dual configs, we should see at least the same speed in the prosumer imac.

we need a 1.25ghz iMac G4! with a 19" widescreen display!!!!
OMG how I would need to change my shorts!

[iwantanewmac]

Originally posted by mcrain
I finally saw the imacs and emac in person, and sorry, but the emac is even worse looking than the original imac.

No offense or anything, but I can tell you many, many other pc users see the original imac or now the emac, and suffer from abdominal cramping.

(edit) that came across as off topic, but what I was trying to get at is that the 15" imac is a far superior machine as a low end mac than the emac. Even though it may be less durable (for bratty kids), it is a far more aesthetically pleasing machine.

Well...That's still YOUR opinion.
I kinda like the Emac. My opinion is that the new Imac looks wierd from certain angles. But that's just me......

I hope they wont increase the prices if they go to all 17 inch

[iwantanewmac]

Originally posted by jaguar451
iMac 15" not selling 'cause not enough differentiation from eMac. iMac should be the "Prosumer" All in one. Differentiate from eMac, and would sell more. For example:

Faster bus - 133 or 167
Better graphics card
Faster Hard Drive
Faster G4
IR Port
PCMCIA for expandibility (Bluetooth, ...)
Dual Display (not just mirroring)
And when being really, really optimistic, DDR RAM with supporting bus - sub $1k machines on Wintel have DDR...)

Still more than enough differentiation from PowerMac (Dual CPUs, expandibility, graphics, monitor choices, L3 cache, etc) even if they have the same Mhz...

Although maybe the whole line goes 17", with the entry level iMac going up $100/$200 or so....

Well I DON'T think there will be enough differentitation.
The dual cpu's are not going to stay. I think they will introduce singles again when moving to a new chip. Low end PM doesnt have L3. expandability well..you can buy everything you like and add it externally.
If you put all that stuff you say in the Imac well you have a powermac.
I see it that way. There has got to be a difference. If you need more power, buy a tower. he that rhymes. :)
Imac is "entry" level mac. It will always be that way I guess.

[Megaquad]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


they're not really slow by any means....

they're consumer machines. that's that.

still, there should've been an update other than the monitor....
I think they will indeed cut discontinue 15" iMac and cut the price of 17" model,19" might be immiment.
Anyway,not even 17" would survive on market without speed bumps.

[peterjhill]

If they are building up alot of inventory of the 15" crts, maybe they just want to take a break from making them so they don't end up with a ton of inventory. Didn't that happen with one of their other products a year ago. I hope that apple comes out with some new machines before christmas, instead of waiting for san francisco MW.

[Nonosse]

Well well well...

I'm actually smiling at the idea of an iMac with 19" screen... Just imagine your cat strolling on your desk, touching the screen, and the whole thing tumbling down to the ground... i was already amazed by the size of the 17" screen and the balance of the computer, i really think the same iMac with 19" screen would be highly unstable !
Maybe adding some little wheels on the side, like on the bicycles for kids ?

Anyway, as somebody said before, iMac will always be low-level and not expandable. If you can customize everything in it, you don't need a tower anymore, what's the point for Apple... I already think it's a big step we have now USB and Firewire, which really help enhance your computer a lot, but changing graphic cards, or PCMCIA, or swappable screens is TOO MUCH choice...

You have to adapt yourself to eMacs and iMacs, whereas you can adapt a tower to your needs, that's all a mater of flexibility ?

I agree on the iMac 15" being too close to the eMac 17", especially since the screen is bigger on the latter (and the Superdrive). I guess iMac 15" has to go...

Only changes to expect: higher performances on iMacs, i would say.

But they are still all good products :)

One last point: aesthetics is a point of view, and iMacs are definitely "special". But that's the whole think about Apple, no ?

Arnaud.

[Megaquad]

New iMac architecture seems pretty unscalable. Maybe Apple is in some serious trouble?

[Mr. Anderson]

After sitting in front of a 17" at the Apple store a week ago or so, I have to say its a great move. The larger screen is a definite improvement and the with Jaguar, its pretty snappy. If my needs didn't require a more robust machine, I'd seriously consider buying one.

Maybe I'll win one tonight, though....:D

D

[topicolo]

Now that I think of it, this move really makes sense for Apple. They screwed up the product line by making the eMac available to the general public. Now, they're trying to make the best of the situation by fading away the 15" iMacs. This leaves the eMacs on the low end, the 17" imac on the mid end and the powermacs on the high end.

Apple better watch themselves. They're straying too far away from their original 4 product lineup and if they're not careful, they'll end up wasting lost of engineering money producing dozens of different models that all sell very poorly again.

[Nonosse]

I still think june/july was a weird period for Apple, with all computers on a slightly same level - iMacs, towers, iBooks and TiBooks had all G4 at 700/800 MHz.
You had then little interest in Powermacs, when the top iMac was almost as good.

Maybe they should work like Ikea, with one collection per year :)

Some people might think i'm wrong, but the whole product line is not clear at all - this one is still produced, this one not, this one is new, but this one was more expensive before... the differences are few, but of big importance...

[Pin-Fisher]

Originally posted by dongmin


Gotta be a troll, right? You plunked down $2000 on the new iMac without having seen it in person?

.

First of all its not a troll a-hole and Im not the only one. I know how monitors are measured by the way for all you "genious" types trying to tell me something. What I described is what I meant. I expected them to start out with a 17" monitor (measured diagonally) and then apply the widescreen. I guess I misunderstood and expected too much. Its going back and for all for all of you self-important fan-boy a holes go to hell and take Crapple with you..

[chubakka]

so it's apple's and the fanboys' fault you're a bonehead?
that's funny... the 17 inch iMac is a great computer...
and you're sending it back because you think you've been duped!
by your deduction you should be getting a 19 inch G4 iMac!
HEY EVERYONE the 17 inch iMac should really be 19 inches!
a 17inch monitor STRETCHED wider!

ummm yeah... whatver. :p

[skunk]

What a plonker!:rolleyes:

[iwantanewmac]

Originally posted by Pin-Fisher


First of all its not a troll a-hole and Im not the only one. I know how monitors are measured by the way for all you "genious" types trying to tell me something. What I described is what I meant. I expected them to start out with a 17" monitor (measured diagonally) and then apply the widescreen. I guess I misunderstood and expected too much. Its going back and for all for all of you self-important fan-boy a holes go to hell and take Crapple with you..


I bet you didnt even buy it haha

[iwantanewmac]

Originally posted by Pin-Fisher
Im sorry....but after getting my new 17" iMac I am EXTREMELY dissapointed. It is NOT!! I repeat NOT a 17" monitor WITH widescreen it IS a 15" monitor stretched so they can measure diagonally and say its a 17" monitor. Don't beleive me?? GO measure the height of a 17" Mac LCD screen and then measure the height of the iMac...Notice a big difference?? Yep the sure as hell is....It a load of marketing doo doo. I know, I have one..and I'm not very happy. Its just not right to advertise them like that!!

I still have 7 dyas to return it.....and yes its that bad!!


Aw man every1 knows that allready. what did you buy it for anyway?

[chubakka]

hehe... because of the 19 inch WIDESCREEN LCD...ooops... it's only 17 inches!
seems like he didn't even turn it on... why bother actually TURNING it on? he'd been duped!

:p

[ColdZero]

So I guess according to you guys, Apple would be ok if they made a 23" iMac that had a 2" high screen. Since Apple doesn't follow aspect ratios with all their wide displays I guess that could fly. Give the guy a break its his opinion, he didn't like the computer and sent it back, why do you have to jump down his throat.

[whatever]

Some of you people simply amaze me. Some days everyone is a Tech. Supreme and the next we can't even measure a monitor properly.

The person who bought the 17" iMac without ever seeing one in person or not fully understanding out Apple comes up with the size... I'm just speachless. I suggest that if this person ever decides to buy a high definition Plasma TV he should look at it first, a 60" Pioneer Plasma ($15,000) is a lot smaller than a 45" Sony Wega ($4,500).

Apple does not need to refresh their entire product line every other day. This is what happening in the PC world and people are completely debating whether or not they should buy a new computer or wait and when they do buy they regret it the next day when the latest greatest machine comes out. One of the things I like about Apple is that this is never the case. A majority of their products have a 6 month life cycle, some even more. This is a good thing.

My local CompUSA got the iMac 17" in this week. I went to check them out and they were already sold out. Granted they only sold five machines, but they sold five in one day, they never even had a chance to setup a floor model. As I was walking out I saw two more customers paying for the new G4 towers (don't look that bad in real life and aren't that noisy either) and 17" monitors. So in one day this one CompUSA sold 7 Macs (that I know of), not bad.

Sorry, if I've gone off a little here, but good God, get a grip. Mac's are more expensive than a WinTel and Apple does things differently than other computer companies, but if they didn't then they would be just another computer company.

[chubakka]

you get the horns...

A wide screen is WIDER and therefore not as TALL as a traditional screen with the same diagonal measurement. Is the Powerbooks 15.2 inch screen as tall as the normal 15 inch lcd? noooooo...

He's the one acting like we're all idiots because we KNEW... and think it's silly he didn't figure out what apparently 98% of people know. Or that Apple didn't put a big warning sign on the website. He's the one calling it crapple... like the machine is ****e... when it's no ones fault but his own.

[Nonosse]

Originally posted by ColdZero
So I guess according to you guys, Apple would be ok if they made a 23" iMac that had a 2" high screen. Since Apple doesn't follow aspect ratios with all their wide displays I guess that could fly.

About the ratios, as you mention them:
- Apple "old-standard" screens, as SVGA and others, have a 4/3 screen, which is a dimension kept on by tradition, being close to TV's and to the first computer's screens;
- TV "wide screens" are 16/9, as it is close to the panoramic screen of a theater, and also closer to your natural angle of view;
- iMac's 17" screen is 16/10, which is a good compromise between TV Widescreen conditions (for watching DVD's etc...) and workstation screen - you need some room on your screen, but a too wide screen might be a pain, with your eyes always switching from one side to the other when you change a tool or switch between softwares. In movies, the most important items are always in the center of the widescreen, not on the sides. But where do you usually put Photoshop's tool window ? -. And i think this iMac wide screen is indeed pretty cool, as it gives A LOT of surface ! I wouldn't want a 19" screen in my flat anyway, too big...

And about Pin-Fisher's miscalculation / misunderstanding: didn't anyone of us ever make such a mistake ? It happens to anyone, don't outcast someone because one day he knows less than you... (Woooops, that sounds like a preach, sorry ! :D )

[TechLarry]

Originally posted by Megaquad
There was no 15" iMac revision since January! No wonder sales are low. Those things are really slow.

Slow?

Mine sure isn't slow. Maybe I got a free turbocharger or something...

TL

[jaguar451]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac


Well I DON'T think there will be enough differentitation.
The dual cpu's are not going to stay. I think they will introduce singles again when moving to a new chip. Low end PM doesnt have L3. expandability well..you can buy everything you like and add it externally.
If you put all that stuff you say in the Imac well you have a powermac.
I see it that way. There has got to be a difference. If you need more power, buy a tower. he that rhymes. :)
Imac is "entry" level mac. It will always be that way I guess.

I guess we'll have to disagree to disagree, but i think that to get more folks to consider switching and buying the iMac instead of the eMac or a WinTel machine, that it needs to perform better. And I think it can be done in a way that maintains differentiation from the PowerMac, even with the current PowerMac specs.

Remember, the eMac/iMac may be the low price Apple computers, but they are targetted as mid-range, not low end, machines to consumers. In that space, the difference in performance with WinTel is getting pretty big - not as bad as at the high end, but... I don't think the hardware has to match the WinTel performance, but it does need to be competitive, and I wouldn't say no to better.

Some of the details on differentiation are definitely debatable, but I think something could be done. I can't imagine too many gamers or graphic professional going with an iMac over a PowerMac as their primary machine given the differentiation I've listed, and the goal would be to make up that difference with more switchers....

BTW, all PowerMacs now include L3 cache.

- A happy iMac G4 owner / recent switcher who wants to see more.

PS To compare with the current state of WinTel:
Gateway® Profile® 4 X
Starts at $1499
17" Monitor
P4 2.4Ghz
256MB DDR RAM with 533 MHz FSB
40Gig, 7200RPM Hard Drive

It has other issues besides the lack of OSX (no DVD, no wide screen, overall design, ...), but overall price/performance...