Panther and OS 9

[arn]

eWeek (/www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,480552,00.asp) revives rumors of OS 9's demise in upcoming machines

They said Apple is planning to "block" next-generation Macs preloaded with Panther from booting into Mac OS 9 although the company will continue to support applications running within Mac OS X's Classic environment.

eWeek previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020802113210.shtml) the same, but had previously called Apple's upcoming OS "Pinot".

[teabgs]

ok, thats gonna happen eventually....yet, Jaguar hasnt even officially shipped yet....

Which means its still a ways off.....

[~/indigo]

I am getting thoroughly frustrated with these "news" sites making this out to be a way that Apple is hurting the customer. Apple will not "block" it from booting, they just won't be making any special provisions for OS 9. I am not sure how the internals of 9 work but, for all we know, keeping that booting option may be holding back kick-ass hardware revisions.

One way or another, your current system will still work fine so there is NOTHING to complain about (I have had enough of this: "but I want to boot System 6 on my dual 2 GHz G5!" kind of whining).

I see no cause for concern,
Jeff.

[arn]

Originally posted by ~/indigo
I am getting thoroughly frustrated with these "news" sites making this out to be a way that Apple is hurting the customer. Apple will not "block" it from booting, they just won't be making any special provisions for OS 9. I am not sure how the internals of 9 work but, for all we know, keeping that booting option may be holding back kick-ass hardware revisions.

One way or another, your current system will still work fine so there is NOTHING to complain about (I have had enough of this: "but I want to boot System 6 on my dual 2 GHz G5!" kind of whining).


You are correct in many ways.... Apple can prevent OS 9 from booting on the new machines by simply not updating it. Every new motherboard requires an update to Mac OS X and OS 9 to allow it to boot. That's why the new machines run Jaguar. If Apple came out with a new Mac (with modified motherboard) in a few months, it would require an updated Mac OS X build to support it.

That being said... I don't see leaving OS 9 as a bad thing... It will be a wakeup call for 3rd party companies to port or be left behind.

And there will be people who complain that they depend on certain OS 9 apps... but, in the end it will be better for all...

arn

[teabgs]

Originally posted by arn


You are correct in many ways.... Apple can prevent OS 9 from booting on the new machines by simply not updating it. Every new motherboard requires an update to Mac OS X and OS 9 to allow it to boot. That's why the new machines run Jaguar. If Apple came out with a new Mac in a few months, it would require an updated Mac OS X build to support it.

That being said... I don't see leaving OS 9 as a bad thing... It will be a wakeup call for 3rd party companies to port or be left behind.

And there will be people who complain that they depend on certain OS 9 apps... but, in the end it will be better for all...

arn

Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....

[arn]

Originally posted by teabgs


Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....

processor daughter cards don't require os updates... but may require drivers that the daughter card manufacterer provide.

arn

[MacSlut]

I agree. I don't think Panther has anything to do with it. It's more about not updating 9 from being able to boot up a new machine.

Blocking 9 from booting a machine would be stupid, on the other hand not devoting resources to developing the code modifications and confusing users with another version of 9 just isn't worth it.

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by teabgs


Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....

but dude!!! we'll have like 1.8-2.067GHz g4s by then!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[teabgs]

Originally posted by sparkleytone


but dude!!! we'll have like 1.8-2.067GHz g4s by then!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

yeah but I'll be a year outta college with loans up my ass...plus When im done with suping up my dual 1.25 when it gets here I'll have invested so much into it....

[robguz]

Well I won't be buying a machine that can't boot in 9. Just today I had to. I copied my internal drive to an external, installed 10.2 with the erase option and the only way I could get items from the original copied drive into the new 10.2 was by going into 9 and copying them. X wouldn't let me do that in a million years, especially for things in the System/Library folder. Until X gives me the option to be superuser and move any thing I want without affecting it's usability when I log in as the regular admin, sorry, but I still need 9. Apple has a long way to go before they can ditch 9, otherwise a lot of people with be ditching Apple. I won't, but I just won't buy a new mac from them for much longer than I would if they keep making 9 bootable. To intentionally yank this when it's pretty easy for them to do is nuts. I mean if Ryan Rempel (sp?) can put something together that makes OSX run on a 7 year old 7500, I think Apple can update their new machines to boot in 9.

[mymemory]

I'm just coming from a club and 3 different ex mac users had changed to PC, they got sick of OSX and no audio soft for it. The explanation where logical "if is taking a year to get just the software for OSX, imagine how long are gonna take the same plug-ins to run on OSX too. And there is something worst, there are plug ins that still in version one for about two years now, there are share ware programs that are very help full and you won't be able to find them on OSX. "

" The entire audio industry still under OS 9, there is not a single professional software on OSX yet, there are no hard ware support, not plug-ins, nothing, and is gonna take about 2 years to have what we have now but for OSX"

Very realistic statement, I do not think many profesionals will jump in to OSX yet. Every single video and audio production post house in my country runs on 9, jus isolated cases where people are using OSX, and are actually hackers or some other graphic designer but not no one running a real busines.

In my case, I will have to learn the tips and tricks all over again and 80% of the software that I use is under OS9.

[arn]

Originally posted by robguz
Until X gives me the option to be superuser and move any thing I want without affecting it's usability when I log in as the regular admin, sorry, but I still need 9.

You do realize how ridiculous a criteria this is, don't you?

That you won't buy another Macintosh if it doesn't boot OS 9 because you need an entire operating system (OS 9) to copy files for you.

Why don't you just learn how to do it in OS X and save yourself the boot into 9?

I mean if Ryan Rempel (sp?) can put something together that makes OSX run on a 7 year old 7500, I think Apple can update their new machines to boot in 9.


I don't think it's a question of difficulty, so much as a question of forcing adoption by 3rd parties and users.

arn

[arn]

Originally posted by mymemory

" The entire audio industry still under OS 9, there is not a single professional software on OSX yet, there are no hard ware support, not plug-ins, nothing, and is gonna take about 2 years to have what we have now but for OSX"


It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn

[idkew]

apple likes to force switches. remember the usb thing? they left adb for one revision (b&W) and then dropped it for usb. well, we have gotten out one (two) revisions, and now they are dropping old technology.

screw lazy audio app companies, they need to get their arses in gear and make some new software. os x is a much better os when it comes to audio and multimedia (jagwire will show this).

plus, i bet the code name is more likely than pinot. jaguars and panthers are cousins...

i, for one, am not installing os 9 when i reformat for X.2. I'm done with it. and screw Quark. Adobe won my business.

[Mr. G4]

Originally posted by arn


It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn

It's like people who don't want to switch to InDesign and work under OSX and keep complaining that Quark is the worse company when it come to upgrade their program....:p

Common people we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate and not live in the past...you have to adapt to the new situation. Where would we be if people keep saying that they won't buy a Mac in 1984 because it won't run their Apple ]['s programs??????

Just my 2¢

[foniks2020]

robguz.... there are many methods to do what you had to do in OS X both with and with out 3rd party software. I'm wondering what in System/Library you needed to move so badly that wasn't available to admin user...

first you need to learn how to be superuser. This requires that you open up netinfo manager in utilities. Go to the security menu at top and authenticate, then 'enable root' and provide a password.

now you can copy/move whatever you want from anywhere by going to the command line/terminal and typing cp -Rp [directory] [new directory path/name]

the -Rp means to copy recursively (R) and maintain privildges/permissions (p)

you could also use sudo without enabling root.

oh yeah to become super user in CLI type su (superuser) then enter and give the password you added in netinfo.

using cp or copy is the safest method as you can't mess up and move things accidently, just copy them.

anyways, try looking into some of the basic and easy to read tutorials on command line for more info.

finally there are many 3rd party software apps that will perform these types of functions which have GUIs and use things like authentication windows to make them foolproof.

OS X does pretty much everything you ask it to do, just not the way you learned in OS 9.

I haven't touched 9 since Dreamweaver was released and haven't thought about it twice... maybe if I was an audiophile or needed Quark but then I'd just be pissed at those companies the same way I was with Adobe and Macromedia for taking sooo long to get their apps out.

[foniks2020]

One more thing Robguz... try logging in as root after you enable it.

Just click on 'Other' when you login instead of a name and type in root and the password you chose.... now you are super user with Aqua GUI.

[marcsiry]

Where am I going to go for my Type 3 Errors and "Out of Memory" messages now?!?!

Stuck with OS X! How....productive!

I disagree with the earlier poster who says no pros are using it. I'm definitely a pro and I'm churning out work like crazy on OSX. Print-to-PDF is the bee's knees!

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Mr. G4


It's like people who don't want to switch to InDesign and work under OSX and keep complaining that Quark is the worse company when it come to upgrade their program....:p

Common people we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate and not live in the past...you have to adapt to the new situation. Where would we be if people keep saying that they won't buy a Mac in 1984 because it won't run their Apple ]['s programs??????

Just my 2¢
...we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate...
do you mean evolve?

[Choppaface]

hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...

[peterjhill]

The classic OS (not classic, but pre-os x) was designed to be a single user OS. Mac OS X is most definitely designed to be a multiple user mac. As for not being able to copy files, if you don't know how to do it in X, you probably shouldn't be doing it by booting into 9. You are just asking for trouble. If you decide to run as root all the time, you are most definitely asking for trouble. They don't put those file protections on their just for kicks, they are doing it to protect the user from themselves.

Be warned! It's not a bug, it's a feature ;-)

[Pelorus]

Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....

I don't see the problem here. Agfa developed excellent drivers for OSX (and then stopped supporting consumer scanners.) The problem with scanning is the hardware developer and ...duh...isn't that always the problem. Apple's now made it easy for them to fix it by supporting scanning in Image Capture. All the hardware companies have to do is provide the hooks.

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...

I'd prefer it if we didn't see "specific" hardware like this. Nasty stuff really.

[pgwalsh]

I think this a bold, but good move. I've heard gripes in the education market, but they'll get over it. I'm making the switch today as Jaguar is released. :cool:

[MacArtist]

Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...

I'm going to asume that OS X.2 will finally bring scanners over to because if I'm not mistaken it has built-in twain support. The reason why no scanners are OS X compatible yet is because the TWAIN Group was still trying to work out all of the specifications for twain drivers in OS X. It's not just Apple's fault, it's not just the scanner manufacturer's fault, it's the fault of every member of the TWAIN group.

And by the way I've been using my Epson Perfection 1250 Photo scanner in OS X for ~4 months with a beta driver.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by ~/Jeff
(I have had enough of this: "but I want to boot System 6 on my dual 2 GHz G5!" kind of whining).



I has system 4.2 in mind . . .

I am wondering what will NOT work in Classic that does work in OS9 itself? Name 5 things that are actual losses.

Rocketman

[mymemory]

Originally posted by arn


It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn

Ok, that is a rasonable point but, the thing is: why users have to deal with a one + year period to get the same thing from the manofacturers? I mean, why at this point we do not have "Digital Performer X" or "Protools X", obviously Apple din't take care of that, now the strategy is to push the consumer for us to push the developers ¿?

All this problem is because of the lack of interest of the manofacturers but, we the consumers are paying for that, Apple is the one that wanted to change OS, well, where is the support? This is getting a "traumatic" (is not that dramatic I know) transition for the user.

I can give you a big list of softwares that are not under OSX yet as well as hardware drivers.

I have been more thna a year now since OSX came out.

[biw314]

SOUND!

[Q-bert]

The audio software is coming. At this point, all of the "big three" digital audio workstation software packages have announced OS X versions - Cubase, Digital Performer, and Logic (pre-Apple purchase). We'll see if Cubase follows through given the Logic purchase by Apple, they must have been pretty mad about that. Don't know about ProTools, but I doubt they'd wait much longer given that the competition isn't waiting.

I'm pretty sure that pro audio is the ONLY remaining field that requires a full boot into OS 9 to work, and by the time these new systems come out and this rumor *maybe* comes true, audio software availability probably won't be an issue anymore. I agree with the others - if this were happening with the Power Mac systems just announced, this would be news, but since it's further down the road, it's a total non-issue.

[skunk]

My understanding of this - which may or may not be completely wrong - is that Apple are not "blocking" the machines from booting in OS 9, they're just not enabling OS 9 to boot the new machines. I think this only means that the motherboard designs are changing in OS X's favour, which of course they must to optimise performance. They can't let Quark dictate their rate of progress.

[biw314]

I'm sick of booting into 9 to get the sound to work. I don't want to boot into 9. Frickin apple makes me.

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by mymemory

Very realistic statement, I do not think many profesionals will jump in to OSX yet. Every single video and audio production post house in my country runs on 9, jus isolated cases where people are using OSX, and are actually hackers or some other graphic designer but not no one running a real busines.

I can't speak for your country, but here is the USA FinalCut is used extensively for professional video. The major of movie trailers you see in theaters and on video are now edited with FinalCut. I worked for a studio that was going throught the process of switching from Avids to FinalCut stations for all of its television production. If you've used FinalCut on OS9 and then compared it to OSX, you ain't never going back to OS9.

In terms of audio, there has been a significant lag. I believe it had something to do with something missing from OSX prior to Jaguar and that we should now see more tools being upgraded to OSX...I don't know the specifics, but I've heard from reliable people that this is the case, they just didn't provide the technical details.

One really great thing about OSX, is that it's so much easier to develop for that we should see a bunch of prosumer level audio apps...which is what I'm interested in. SoundEdit 16 was a great example of an pre-OS9 prosumer app, but unfortunately it hasn't been updated in years. I don't think Macromedia will ever update it or sell it, but I do think many shareware developers are poised to take its place...please people don't post messages with links to existing OSX shareware audio apps, we've seen them...none of them have multi-track editing capability yet (though this can now come with the changes in Jaguar).

The bottom line is that Quark, and the major audio apps are being ported to OSX and should arrive prior to Apple not upgrading OS9 to run on the yet to be released Macs. Even if there was a bit of a gap, I don't think it would be that big of a deal. A few people would hold off a bit on purchases, or keep their old machines on hand for a while.

I've been using OSX for almost a year now, but I keep an OS9 machine on my desk as well...why not? It's not like you get any real $$$ for an old machine. It's just an old PowerMac 7500 that I use as a Web server, television, and for the rare time I want to test something in OS9.

[macsurfer]

Originally posted by mymemory


Ok, that is a rasonable point but, the thing is: why users have to deal with a one + year period to get the same thing from the manofacturers? I mean, why at this point we do not have "Digital Performer X" or "Protools X"


You'd better ask the makers of ProTools and Digital Performer. It's not apples fault. The makers of those programs are the ones who are guilty. Besides, Apple just purchased EMagic.

[brennan]

The question isn't whose fault it is, but whether Apple should be taking actions that will make it difficult or impossible for their core customers to work on their platform, buy their hardware, etc. Quark and ProTools users are among Apple's most important and loyal customers; it would be ill advised to do anything to alientate these folks, and while "talk to Quark" may be make the hardcore happy, it'll mean more people looking at other platforms.

This may not end up as an issue, since these programs will probably be ported before Panther comes out. But if they aren't, IMO it would be a really really bad idea for Apple to lock out their bread and butter. The last thing they should do is take actions that could potentially limit their sales.

-brennan

[Mr. G4]

Originally posted by BongHits

...we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate...
do you mean evolve?

Yeh something like that .... I was refencing to the evolution, where the grumppy OS9er will go away one day if they want to make any effort in learning new thing:D

Sorry for my English...I'm an ESL:confused:

[Scab Cake]

Pro Tools X is around the corner. The developers at Digidesign are currently training their reps on how to use the OS X version and troubleshoot. It should be a finished product within a couple of months. The reason it takes so long to port these apps to OS X is that the audio frameworks are COMPLETELY different than OS 9 and there's a lot to deal with. I don't know if Pro Tools will be a Carbon or Cocoa app, though. I'll see what I can find out.

[Megaquad]

It will probably be carbon,cocoa apps need to be completely rewriten.

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Mr. G4


Yeh something like that .... I was refencing to the evolution, where the grumppy OS9er will go away one day if they want to make any effort in learning new thing:D

Sorry for my English...I'm an ESL:confused:
ok i must me be stupid...whats an ESL?

[Mr. G4]

Originally posted by BongHits

ok i must me be stupid...whats an ESL?

English as Second Language

[Booga]

Originally posted by MacSlut
I agree. I don't think Panther has anything to do with it. It's more about not updating 9 from being able to boot up a new machine.

Blocking 9 from booting a machine would be stupid, on the other hand not devoting resources to developing the code modifications and confusing users with another version of 9 just isn't worth it.

Blocking 9 from booting would be very smart at some point. What percentage of the cost of a product do you think is spent on code modifications versus QA and support? Even if 9 seemed to boot perfectly on some mythical future machine, at some point it makes sense to block its booting and spend the QA and support money on making X that much better. I don't think we've reached that point yet, but it seems that the last generation of people that really need a bootable 9 are some of the audio and video people, and those ports are likely coming fast.

[JupiterZen]

Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....


And my new Canon 1240U works just fine with the beta drivers made available weeks ago ;-)

I only had to ditch my Umax, but that's no real loss. Scanners don't cost **** anymore.

;-)

[JupiterZen]

Originally posted by JupiterZen

Scanners don't cost **** anymore.



Extremely OFF TOPIC ;)

As a Dutch newbie here I want to say that this American beeping thing over words that are ordinary good english, really frustrates me every time.

What if I want to have a discussion about human fecies?

;)

[skunk]

That's "faeces"...but that WOULD be an extremely off topic.:)

[rEd Eye]

Sure!Go ahead,dump OS 9.I won't be buying a new Mac for quite some time.
Everybody seems to think the audio issue is solved as soon as the big name sequencers are ported.How much is it going to cost to upgrade $15k-$2k worth of audio software anyways?Which will of course all be made available the day you decide to switch!Anyone here have any idea the sheer volume of 3'rd party plugins and vst etc.soft synths that either cost an arm and a leg,or are so free they will probably never get ported? How many smaller,very usefull little apps are available that we will be lucky to see ported any time soon?You expect me to just jump into Nuendo for Mac OS X without 95% of the tools and toys that are the heart and soul of what I do?
I am not made of the money that lets me buy whatever I fancy like some of the wankers on this board,and I have no mind to just discard everything I've invested because some a**hole tells me to "let go of the past".Must be those jerks who needs the fastest,shiniest most expensive email machines they can get their hands on whom are so adamant that we stop whining about change! OS X does do email!!!
If Apple dumps OS 9 in the next two years,they are not going to be selling new computers to a lot of dedicated Mac audio types.
They upgrade their machines so goddam slow,why are they in such a hurry to downgrade their user base so fast?
If OS 9 (then OS X)were running on PC hardware,I would bail sooo fast,cause I really don't see what's so special about Apple hardware anyways,except that it's shiny,totally un-user buildable from select components and costs 35% more than it should!

[PyroTurtle]

quark runs just in classic for me...prints and everything!
and the only thing i'd ever have to boot into OS9 for would be PlayStation Games....

[teabgs]

Originally posted by JupiterZen


Extremely OFF TOPIC ;)

As a Dutch newbie here I want to say that this American beeping thing over words that are ordinary good english, really frustrates me every time.

What if I want to have a discussion about human fecies?

;)

There are certain words on Macrumors that are cencorsed. So if you type in certain words it will automatically cencesor them for you when you post.

so you cant say ****, because even though I typed it, it was cencored.....but I can say crap.

So you dont need to be pissed of at "this american beeping thing".

[JupiterZen]

Originally posted by teabgs


There are certain words on Macrumors that are cencorsed. So if you type in certain words it will automatically cencesor them for you when you post.

so you cant say ****, because even though I typed it, it was cencored.....but I can say crap.

So you dont need to be pissed of at "this american beeping thing".

Well, than I have to get my English dicionary out so I can find really obscure words for common things :D

But seriously. Why are these words censored? In my opinion it stand directly in contrast to the American "freedom of expression"-thing you all hold so high up.

So I really don't understand the need for censorship.

And could I have a list of the words so that I can prevent using them in my posts :rolleyes:

[JupiterZen]

Originally posted by skunk
That's "faeces"...but that WOULD be an extremely off topic.:)

Thanx for the spelling lesson. I knew I had it wrong, just couldn't figure out the correct speiing. And was to lazy to get the dictionary out :)

[TechLarry]

It makes NO sense for them to do this.

You never take customer options away, especially when you are the underdog.

TL

[tjwett]

Originally posted by Rocketman

I am wondering what will NOT work in Classic that does work in OS9 itself? Name 5 things that are actual losses.


well for me here are just a few:
Digital Performer
Absynth
Reaktor
Reason 1.0
Logic
Metasynth
MAX/MSP
and a metric shi+load of VST instruments and FX.

dumping OS 9 boot up will screw me and alot of others i know.

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by TechLarry
It makes NO sense for them to do this.

You never take customer options away, especially when you are the underdog.

TL

Steve Jobs did tell the WWDC that OS 9 is dead. These 9 only apps need to be ported to OS X. Carbon has been available for how long? I want apple to spend it's money and time on OS X development, not OS 9 life support. Yell at the software vendors, as well as apple.

[nuckinfutz]

too much.

I do blame them for not having CoreAudio and the I/O kit robust from the start.

Developers are now moving quickly to update their software for OSX. CoreAudio is feature complete and ready to roll. As always if you own the product from a lazy developer you have to harrass them. It's unacceptable to have a Developer procrastinate when you've paid money. Should that developer continue to procrastinate then I suggest moving to another product if possible. Choices are always good for the consumer. I don't buy my computer to be dangled at the whim of some developer. Keep your product updated or I'm moving on. Period.

Porting to Carbon isn't that difficult for small things like Plugins. Porting to Carbon is huge if you're talking Pro Tools.

Lucky for me I'll be starting new so if a Dev doesn't have plans for OSX ...they lose my money.

OSX offers way too much over OS9 to sit around waiting. I'm gonna be ready to go soon.

[barkmonster]

ure!Go ahead,dump OS 9.I won't be buying a new Mac for quite some time.
Everybody seems to think the audio issue is solved as soon as the big name sequencers are ported.How much is it going to cost to upgrade $15k-$2k worth of audio software anyways?Which will of course all be made available the day you decide to switch!Anyone here have any idea the sheer volume of 3'rd party plugins and vst etc.soft synths that either cost an arm and a leg,or are so free they will probably never get ported? How many smaller,very usefull little apps are available that we will be lucky to see ported any time soon?You expect me to just jump into Nuendo for Mac OS X without 95% of the tools and toys that are the heart and soul of what I do?
I am not made of the money that lets me buy whatever I fancy like some of the wankers on this board,and I have no mind to just discard everything I've invested because some a**hole tells me to "let go of the past".Must be those jerks who needs the fastest,shiniest most expensive email machines they can get their hands on whom are so adamant that we stop whining about change! OS X does do email!!!
If Apple dumps OS 9 in the next two years,they are not going to be selling new computers to a lot of dedicated Mac audio types.
They upgrade their machines so goddam slow,why are they in such a hurry to downgrade their user base so fast?
If OS 9 (then OS X)were running on PC hardware,I would bail sooo fast,cause I really don't see what's so special about Apple hardware anyways,except that it's shiny,totally un-user buildable from select components and costs 35% more than it should!

I totally agree with you there.

Even now, small companies are releasing plug-ins and software synths for OS 9 only and they've had to wait over a year for coreaudio to be complete so they can port to OS X, if they port to OS X that is.

It's kind of worrying right now for a lot of us audio people, what's to say plug-in companies arn't going to release formerly mac only plug-ins on the PC instead of or as well as compiling them for OS X ?

Does anyone know if coremidi supports patchnames in OS 10.2 ?

It certainly doesn't in previous versions because it's mentioned in the documentation for Unity Session.

OMS might be a pain in the neck for some people but once you've got it configured it handles patch names in all applications perfectly, If you've got quite a few banks of sounds on you're synths etc... and you've got lot's of patchname documents it's going to be hell switching to OS X for audio unless it can read them or at least convert them to a readable format.

One thing that's always bugged me about PCs is the lack of standards for audio, slowly they've crept past the mac, Direct X, 5.1 surround soundcards, internal audio routing (recording the output of any audio app with any other app without using 2 soundcards and a lead or something like snaps pro). All that doesn't bother me so long as I've got such easy patchname management as I have under OS 9 with OMS but running under OS X.

The native plug-in formats, DSPs and countless other improvments to the macs audio capabilities, not to mention the new 24bit audio on the new towers with a Signal To Noise Ratio of over 100 db put the mac back on top as long as we're running everything under OS X. I hope we see a lot more audio software for mac now jaguar is here, new stuff aswell as all the software we currently use in OS 9.