Apple Sues Over Leak

[kjr39]

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Apple Computer Inc. (Nasdaq:AAPL - news) is suing anonymous people who leaked details about new products by posting information on the Internet, court documents showed on Friday.

Apple's complaint, filed with the Santa Clara County California Superior Court, comes only weeks ahead of the Macworld conference in San Francisco, the annual show where CEO Steve Jobs (news - web sites) unveils the latest Apple products.

Apple is notoriously secretive about its product plans, while many fan sites routinely discuss what may be in store, including posting pictures of real products and hoaxes.

The complaint alleges that "an unidentified individual, acting alone or in concert with others, has recently misappropriated and disseminated through Web sites confidential information about an unreleased Apple product."

Apple said in the seven-page civil complaint, filed on Dec. 13, that it did not know the "true names or capacities, whether individual, associate, corporate or otherwise," of the defendants. Once they have been discovered, the Cupertino, California-based company said it would amend the complaint.

It was not the first time Apple has gone after fanatics who have posted information about upcoming products on the Internet.

In December 2002, Apple sued a former contractor who allegedly posted drawings, images and engineering details of the company's PowerMac G4 computer in July of that year, several weeks before the product was officially unveiled.

"Apple has filed a civil complaint against unnamed individuals who we believe stole our trade secrets and posted detailed information about an unannounced Apple product on the Internet," the company said in a statement provided to Reuters. "Apple's DNA is innovation and the protection of our trade secrets is crucial to our success."

Mac rumor Web sites are at their busiest ahead of the annual Macworld conventions, which are highly anticipated by the Mac faithful for product introductions and Jobs' keynote.

In recent weeks, the Web sites have been buzzing with speculation that Apple will introduce a smaller, cheaper version of its market-leading iPod digital music player that uses flash memory, rather than the hard disk drives of the standard iPods.

Flash memory chips retain data stored on them even when electrical current is shut off.

Financial analysts Andy Neff of Bear Stearns and Charlie Wolf of Needham & Co. have also published notes in recent weeks mentioning flash iPods.

"To succeed, Apple must develop innovative products and bring those products to market in advance of its competitors," the company said in its complaint. "If Apple competitors were aware of Apple's future production information, those competitors could benefit economically from that knowledge by directing their product development or marketing to frustrate Apple's plans."


Yahoo Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=582&e=1&u=/nm/20041217/wr_nm/tech_apple_dc)

[dotnina]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Who are they suing! Please don't tell me that "Milano Cookie" iPod is real!

Do you think whoever's getting sued would come out and say so? Are there restrictions that prevent you to say if Apple's suing you?

[Peyote]

:eek: :eek: :eek:


Do you think whoever's getting sued would come out and say so? Are there restrictions that prevent you to say if Apple's suing you?


I don't see why there would be. The information should be easily obtainable once they file the suit anyway.

EDIT: seems they've already file the suits...I'm sure we'll find out who it is by Monday.


EDIT V.2: You can search for the case here, but it's not in their database yet.

http://www.sccaseinfo.org/

[dotnina]

I don't see why there would be. The information should be easily obtainable once they file the suit anyway.

EDIT: seems they've already file the suits...I'm sure we'll find out who it is by Monday.

Ok, I read the article too quickly the first time through. It sounds like Apple doesn't even know who they're suing:

Apple said in the seven-page civil complaint, filed on Dec. 13, that it did not know the "true names or capacities, whether individual, associate, corporate or otherwise," of the defendants. Once they have been discovered, the Cupertino, California-based company said it would amend the complaint.

[jeremy.king]

Ok, I read the article too quickly the first time through. It sounds like Apple doesn't even know who they're suing:


You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Then in that case I am suing an unknown party for an unknown reason for an unknown amount in damages. I will amend the complaint once I find out who did what and decide on the appropriate penalty.

:D

[Peyote]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Then in that case I am suing an unknown party for an unknown reason. I will amend the complaint once I find out who did what.

:D


I assume you are seeking "Unspecified Damages"

[jeremy.king]

I assume you are seeking "Unspecified Damages"

Of course, let me amend my earlier suit.

Too funny. ;)

[Mr. Anderson]

Interesting. Not as bad as the new iMac on the cover of Time Canada a day early, though :D

Having just misplaced my usb flash memory card, I'm thinking a flash iPod would be a good thing to have :D

D

[Sun Baked]

I wonder if Morpheus is about to get slapped for the leaks (actual pages) on the CPUs, and continual updates every time a press release is about to hit.

Edit: I guess this is a little more interesting, instead of guessing/speculating on new hardware -- we're speculating which member of the rumor community is about to get stepped on.

[Edot]

Isn't Apple shooting themselves in the foot? If they just ignored the "leaked" information then the public and other companies would remain skeptical, and not really know what Apple is doing. Now they have pretty much confirmed that whatever was "leaked" was real, and they want to know who is responsible. I don't understand it. At least sue after the actual product has been released.

[nbs2]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Then in that case I am suing an unknown party for an unknown reason for an unknown amount in damages. I will amend the complaint once I find out who did what and decide on the appropriate penalty.

:D

it looks like they know who the person is by their alias, but they are trying to find their "true name" and how they are working - alone, with a group, or with another company. it would make sense that they would do this.

i wasn't really paying attention in class last year, so i can't remember how this works, but it seems like they are trying to preserve their rights under a statute of limitations. plus, by filing the lawsuit, they should have an easier time getting moderators and such to reveal IP addresses and other identifiable information. once again, i really wasn't paying attention in class (i was on macrumors trying to decide when to switch), so take this with a grian of salt.

[MacRumors]

Reuters Story (http://www.reuters.com/audi/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7128844" title="Apple Sues Over Web Leak of Advance Products)

On December 13th, Apple filed a civil suit against several anonymous parties, claiming that "an unidentified individual, acting alone or in concert with others, has recently misappropriated and disseminated through Web sites confidential information about an unreleased Apple product."

Current conjecture is that this is in relation to recent rumors (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=97215" title=" iPod Flash Early 2005?) surrounding a flash iPod, but the possibility that this is related to other recent product rumors, such as an Sirius-Apple collaboration (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=101398" title="iPod To Become a Portable Satellite Radio Player?), or Apple branded phone (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=100503" title="Apple iPhone by Motorola?) should not be discounted.

[~Shard~]

Wow, Apple sure means business! It'll be interesting to find out more about this leak and what exactly it pertains to. I guess whatever it is, we can all but assume it's fact, so that's good for us in some respects - not good for Apple in some respects too... ;)

Hopefully it's the iPhone, I think that could have some really cool potential... :cool:

[Dr. Dastardly]

I could care less about a flash iPod, come on iPhone!

It would be cool if this device was BOTH the flash iPod and the iPhone. Dare to dream. :p

[kjr39]

Wow. I made the front page...

[Rower_CPU]

Wow. I made the front page...

Sorta - we were already drawing up the story and found your post so we decided to give you credit for posting it first by merging your thread into the front page story. :)

[DanTekGeek]

the one thing that i want most from a phone, a qwerty, is allmost certainly not going to be on the iPhone.

[Freg3000]

Secrecy is paramount at Apple. While we might not like that, it is there choice, not ours. What else can Apple do to show that it is serious about leaks other than to sue? They mean business.

Steve does not like to be upstaged. :)

[maya]

Wow. I made the front page...

Yeah and on a friday. ;)


I believe its an iPhone and not really a FlashPod since rumors of a flash Pod have been since when, not to say that rumors of an iPhone have not however the iPhone just popped it head out of the Archives of rumors.

Well a month to go, I believe an INTERN messed up or was bought out by an outside source. :)

[Makosuke]

It sounds like they're suing over something that will be released, but based on the wording in that story it'd be possible that they're suing over a past infraction, and that the product was unreleased at the time but now available. If this is legally possible, I could imagine doing it to prevent "admitting" to the product that was leaked until after the fact.

Admittedly, I can't remember any particularly obvious leaks in the past few months, so unless this is very old, maybe it is proactively targeting people who Apple is afraid will continue to leak information.

Seems draconian, but to be honest I can see it from Apple's standpoint. If nobody knows that they're working on the iPod, nobody can start copying it until they've already got it on the market.

Ah, the shady business of Mac rumor sites!

[benpatient]

the secrecy crap has got to stop. they just do this to try and make as much money as they can off of their current (old) products before releasing a new, better one for the same price.

I wish they'd do it car-manufacturer style...then they could keep secrets, but we'd still know that we were getting something soon...as it is, we may not see this device until June...and we may not see G5 powerbooks for 2 years...but at least people would know to expect something...

[Hoef]

Quick, everyone .... switch user names!

[kjr39]

I wish they'd do it car-manufacturer style...then they could keep secrets, but we'd still know that we were getting something soon...as it is, we may not see this device until June...and we may not see G5 powerbooks for 2 years...but at least people would know to expect something...

What eletronic company follows the car manufacturer style? It would not make good business sense at all for Apple to tell everyone "Hey, don't buy our present line up, we will be releasing a much better system in a month!"

That would go over really well with Wall Street.

I have walked away from every computer/eletronic purchase I bought knowing that it is out of date.

Speaking of which, anyone want to buy an 8-track player? :P

[maya]

the secrecy crap has got to stop. they just do this to try and make as much money as they can off of their current (old) products before releasing a new, better one for the same price.

I wish they'd do it car-manufacturer style...then they could keep secrets, but we'd still know that we were getting something soon...as it is, we may not see this device until June...and we may not see G5 powerbooks for 2 years...but at least people would know to expect something...

You already have information from IBM in regards to the PPC chip with its own code name for the G5, as you can tell they have had some problems and some have been fixed its not hard to tell if the chip is ready or not, however its up to Apple if they choose to use it or not and when to release it. I am sure Apple is not sitting back when IBM has a faster chips and not use it rather than piss off they customers.

As with future unknown products it better if ppl only speculate what it might be it ruins the surprise and it makes for copy-cats we have already seen this with the notebooks, iMac, iPod and mini.

When you place you hard earned dollars in R&D would you revel what it is to everyone. I think not some information as you have stated is already given by companies that are involved as per Moto, IBM, Toshiba, Hitachi, etc...

Look at the clues. :)

[maya]

What eletronic company follows the car manufacturer style? It would not make good business sense at all for Apple to tell everyone "Hey, don't buy our present line up, we will be releasing a much better system in a month!"

That would go over really well with Wall Street.

I have walked away from every computer/eletronic purchase I bought knowing that it is out of date.

Speaking of which, anyone want to buy an 8-track player? :P

You forget R&D hardware is also unstable as soon as it is stable it makes its way to the top companies and finally to consumers this the life cycle of every product. Why are people acting surprised? :)

[woodsey]

Dont know if its still around, but steve used to have a plaque from world war two, hanging in apple HQ, which read;

Loose Lips Sink Ships

I think this could be particularly applicable to the rumors regarding a flash based iPod, because if people become aware of a cheaper iPod, it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.

[rdowns]

Sorta - we were already drawing up the story and found your post so we decided to give you credit for posting it first by merging your thread into the front page story. :)

Geez, 3rd time in 2 weeks i post a thread that makes Page 1 and no props. :rolleyes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=101517

[BornAgainMac]

I wonder if Microsoft goes after individuals that post the exciting new stuff from Microsoft labs? I can hardly wait for the keynote from Bill Gates at the next WinWorld in Seattle. 2 hrs of speaking using words like 'innovation' and 'licensing' and 'rich client' or 'richer experience'.
:p

[Rower_CPU]

Geez, 3rd time in 2 weeks i post a thread that makes Page 1 and no props. :rolleyes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=101517

Check the post times.

[zwilliams07]

Just uncool... a bit funny though that they can sue anonymous people.

[Stella]

Just uncool... a bit funny though that they can sue anonymous people.

The RIAA sue anonymous people too don't they - John Dose (Spelling)

[swissmann]

I think Apple probably needs to do this but the more they do the more it cuts into the rumors that I love so much.

[Doraemon]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Don't know about US law too much, but it's no problem to sue an unidentified criminal in Germany.

[Mechcozmo]

The RIAA sue anonymous people too don't they - John Dose (Spelling)

John Doe or Jane Doe. Depends on Gender.

And this is pretty cool. Apple is putting shame to the code name "LAW"

:D

Anyone know what that means? Carl Segan maybe?

[dejo]

it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.

Yeah, in light of the rumor of a flash-based iPod being around for weeks, the iPods are just not selling very well this Christmas... ;)

[bignumbers]

My theory is this isn't about the flash iPod, but the music interface thing that popped up a couple weeks back. The info and drawings were very detailed, and so consistent they seemed to have one source. The flash iPod stuff is bits and pieces from all over, not to mention a logical product addition that shouldn't surprise anyone. Same with the rumored 5GB iPod mini. But the music interface is somewhat out of left field, and as I said, specific.

The timing I think is related to the upcoming expo. Apple may have some big things coming that haven't leaked yet, and this is a first strike to try to keep the lid on things - both those already in the know, and those running rumor sites. Don't want anyone hearing about that quad-G5 Newton, or the Lisa II Portable...

[ASP272]

Isn't Apple shooting themselves in the foot? If they just ignored the "leaked" information then the public and other companies would remain skeptical, and not really know what Apple is doing. Now they have pretty much confirmed that whatever was "leaked" was real, and they want to know who is responsible. I don't understand it. At least sue after the actual product has been released.

I absolutely agree. By ignoring leaked information you leave it all to speculation. Plus, an unnamed defendant(s) lawsuit is pretty pointless. Or maybe they filed it to mislead competitors. Maybe there is no flash iPod, or Sirius deal, and they have something way better in store. Maybe they just want the competition to start doing very expensive R&D for nothing. Now that would be smart. :cool:

[Steven1621]

with regard to letting it go as a rumor, there might be more to this than we know. i'm sure the apple legal folks must have thought about, especially with their farmilarity with the rumor community. i think there is more that we don't know quite yet. it'll probably come on in the next weeks...

[Steven1621]

"Apple has filed a civil complaint against unnamed individuals who we believe stole our trade secrets and posted detailed information about an unannounced Apple product on the Internet,"

Where's the detailed information?

[Makosuke]

I think this could be particularly applicable to the rumors regarding a flash based iPod, because if people become aware of a cheaper iPod, it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.
Yeah, it's not like there were loads of news stories (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=ipod+sold+out&btnG=Search+News) about iPod shortages this Christmas season, and experts are estimating they could sell something like 4 million iPods this quarter. No, wait, they are.

Even Apple is only saying that they're worried about competitors getting advanced notice of what to copy, not that the foreknowledge is going to hurt sales of existing products, and I'd tend to believe that.

Though Apple obviously would rather you happily went out and bought a PowerBook now rather than waiting for January, rumored specs of a PowerBook upgrade are not the same as industrial espionage.

I like bignumbers' media center theory, since the other options don't seem to line up with the lawsuit:

The Motorola-Apple iPhone thing has been in the works for a while including public announcement of some sort of partnership, and the only information I've seen has come directly from Apple officials. Besides, there hasn't been anything at all specific making the rumor rounds.

The flash iPod thing also seems suspect, since there have been rumors floating around for months, and aren't exactly easily tracible back to a single source. Info has also come from Toshiba and been published in major news outlets. Unless those interface-less renderings based on "leaked" descriptions few days ago prove to be correct, though even then I'm not sure Apple would bother with that big of a deal about it since it's been talked about so much.

The media thing, though, was low-profile and a big enough leap in product strategy that Apple might well get angry about it leaking, particularly if they've been keeping the research tightly under wraps (compared to a Flash iPod, which is supposed to already be in production and a pretty obvious product expansion into an existing marketspace).

[diamacibal]

based on the wording in that story it'd be possible that they're suing over a past infraction, and that the product was unreleased at the time but now available

iPod photo rumors were right on the ball, so it seems... it could be retribution time for that? But then again, speculation of a cheaper iPod could be the ticket, too...

[Macmaniac]

IMHO it seems like this could be related to the Siruis-Apple player. It has never been talked about before this week, and the suit came this week. All the other rumors are known, so I think its gotta be satellite radio.

[Lancetx]

My theory is this isn't about the flash iPod, but the music interface thing that popped up a couple weeks back. The info and drawings were very detailed, and so consistent they seemed to have one source. The flash iPod stuff is bits and pieces from all over, not to mention a logical product addition that shouldn't surprise anyone. Same with the rumored 5GB iPod mini. But the music interface is somewhat out of left field, and as I said, specific.

I assume you're referring to this? (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=756) This does seem to be the most logical candidate for the lawsuit to me considering the text of the legal complaint. But we're all guessing I suppose at this juncture. Besides, wouldn't Apple legal have already requested that this be taken down if it were so sensitive?

[puckhead193]

They definitly mean business, but then again, MWSF brings alot of media attention, and if something leaked they could lose alot of media attention and money

[TednDi]

the iSUBPOENA!


now with even bigger NDA!

[relimw]

I think this could be particularly applicable to the rumors regarding a flash based iPod, because if people become aware of a cheaper iPod, it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.

Eh? They still have ipods around?
The report I saw said there were almost no ipods in the channel at all.

[slipper]

and this article is on the first page because?

Apple needs to get a grip, its a freackin rumor. I guess since they have a civil case, its true.

[relimw]

IMHO it seems like this could be related to the Siruis-Apple player. It has never been talked about before this week, and the suit came this week. All the other rumors are known, so I think its gotta be satellite radio.

Nah, it's for the Sirius-iPod-iPhone. Now that would be something interesting, I might even be willing to buy one of those. I've been considering buying a satellite radio receiver recently...hmm.

:cool:

[Sun Baked]

It could be something over the iPod mini, the iMac G5, or some of the software Apple's released -- doesn't have to be a civil action over something that hasn't been released yet.

Would be bad form to do that, and not to send a note from Apple legal to the sites currently showing the leaks info.

Anyway, weren't there some rumors of "Apple Legal made me remove..." in the past 6 months -- don't remember any Apple leak plugging recently.

[Super Dave]

the iSUBPOENA!

Sweet! Where can I buy one? :rolleyes:

David :cool:

[Chip NoVaMac]

Secrecy is paramount at Apple. While we might not like that, it is there choice, not ours. What else can Apple do to show that it is serious about leaks other than to sue? They mean business.

Steve does not like to be upstaged. :)

It gets to the core of their businesses.

Having something leaked weeks or months before they are ready gives others the chance to try an counter the Apple move. By having secrecy till the actual launch they do make it harder for others to steal thunder.

[Chip NoVaMac]

the one thing that i want most from a phone, a qwerty, is allmost certainly not going to be on the iPhone.

For me it is that Sprint will be a carrier with the phone. WITH full BT support!

[Chip NoVaMac]

the secrecy crap has got to stop. they just do this to try and make as much money as they can off of their current (old) products before releasing a new, better one for the same price.



Keep in mind that Apple is a relative small fish IMO in the technology arena (despite the iPod). Most of what they offer is there there own, while others seem to latch on to MS. So secrecy is needed to keep the others guessing.

You mentioned the auto industry. It is hard for them to keep specific models from discovery. But they are protective of rebates and pricing, and other matters that make them standout from the others.

[iMeowbot]

I don't see why there would be. The information should be easily obtainable once they file the suit anyway.

EDIT: seems they've already file the suits...I'm sure we'll find out who it is by Monday.


EDIT V.2: You can search for the case here, but it's not in their database yet.

http://www.sccaseinfo.org/

Apple do have a fresh civil case against a Doe (http://www.sccaseinfo.org/pa5.asp?full_case_number=1-04-CV-032178), filed on 13 December. It's labeled in the system as an auto case, but there are some sealed documents and that makes me wonder if it is mislabeled. Does anyone have easy access to California documents who could peek at this one?

[Chip NoVaMac]

Dont know if its still around, but steve used to have a plaque from world war two, hanging in apple HQ, which read;

Loose Lips Sink Ships

I think this could be particularly applicable to the rumors regarding a flash based iPod, because if people become aware of a cheaper iPod, it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.

Amen, the same could be said about the Sirus project (though I wish it were XM). Or even the iPhone....

[rikers_mailbox]

my question is, why did Eddy Cue (who?), vice president in charge of applications at Apple, do something unprecedented and react to anaylist comments (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041216203103.shtml). . .
"We've said we have something coming on this in the first half of 2005 and we're definitely on schedule for that. Hopefully you'll be able to see more about it soon"

To me, that is Apple saying "yes, we have been working on something. Now go away." It puts control of the situation back in their hands and settles the rumors. Meanwhile, the lawsuit against no one is an action against the source of leaked info. Maybe all the rumors are true (iPhone, flashPod, asteroid (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/11/20041123012226.shtml), Sirius-iPod). . . Apple must be pretty frustrated!

I don't think we'll be hearing any reliable rumors for awhile. :(

[AirUncleP]

I am in full support of Apple sueing anyone and everyone who leaks information. This has to stop. A company has rights!........

.....Hold on....<refreshing macrumors.com>....

Why hasn't Apple done this sooner. Way to go Apple......

.....Hold on....<refreshing macrumors.com>....

[Jerry Spoon]

IMHO it seems like this could be related to the Siruis-Apple player. It has never been talked about before this week, and the suit came this week. All the other rumors are known, so I think its gotta be satellite radio.

For my wallet's sake, I hope you're right. I just bought a few hundred shares of Sirius recently. :D

[JesterJJZ]

the iSUBPOENA!

I think iPoena sounds better :D

[AmigoMac]

Great, I mean, now it's better to find what's real and what's a rumor... so many things around, they are generating attention and in the end you have no idea what they wanted to protect until they release it and a lot of people will start crying... all that problem for that? :eek:

PB G5 anyone? :rolleyes: ...

[SpamJunkie]

I'd think this general MacWorld rumor from page 2 is most likely:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041209142551.shtml

It seems plausible enough to be true and it true it basically takes the wind out of the entire Stevenote.

[solvs]

Well, look at how all of those rumors of $99 - $149 mini players hurt the iPod mini... oh, wait. Well still, a lot of people were pissed there was no cheapy player. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. I'm not holding my breath for a sub-$100 flash/phone/satellite radio. But I hope we will be pleasantly surprised either way instead of getting our hopes up, just to be dashed by reality. And all the whining because it doesn't match something someone made up. Rumors are fun and all, and most of us here like to know what comes next, but Apple has to be secretive for several reasons already mentioned. Look what happens when he make an off comment about hoping to have 100 million songs sold, or 3GHz G5s. Plenty of Steve promised whining. Everybody always forgets the "we hope" and "we'll try" parts.

[Counterfit]

my question is, why did Eddy Cue (who?), vice president in charge of applications at Apple, do something unprecedented and react to anaylist comments (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041216203103.shtml). . .
"We've said we have something coming on this in the first half of 2005 and we're definitely on schedule for that. Hopefully you'll be able to see more about it soon"

To me, that is Apple saying "yes, we have been working on something. Now go away." Actually, they're saying "We're working on something for the first half of 2005, come and take a peek! (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger)"

[Dont Hurt Me]

All i can say is Ok we have a iphone big deal what the hell has happen to their computer business with 2% marketshare? Apple seems to have forgotten their core business and turned into a music dealer. Fx 5200s and Powermacs that are dumbed down. Come on apple focus,Focus Focus. Walkman went up saturated and went where. I want to hear about a new Mac that kicks PC butt in everything including gaming and im still waiting. Cant remember the last time i saw a Apple computer commmercial and not some more short term pod crap. People will fill their libraries and then what? Apple has lost focus in the core business.

[nagromme]

If people are violating agreements or spying on Apple operations illegally, and tipping off Apple's competitors with the release of trade secrets, then they've got to go after them.

But please don't let that alarm anyone who's doing it... I like the rumors :D

I'll take a stab and say it's over the Asteroid thing. That was a pretty specific one (ThinkSecret?).

[nagromme]

Apple seems to have forgotten their core business and turned into a music dealer. Fx 5200s and Powermacs that are dumbed down. Come on apple focus,Focus Focus.

I think Apple has DIFFERENT divisions working on the Mac stuff vs. the music stuff. No resources need be taken away from Mac development. I'm not sure what makes people think that--the skills are different, the people are different, and in fact, some say iPod and iTunes actually pay for themselves ;)

[dejo]

I want to hear about a new Mac that kicks PC butt in everything including gaming and im still waiting

Even if that day does come, it's not like people will start switching to Macs by the millions (however wonderful that might truly be). It's going to be a long, hard road to seriously erode the PC market share, especially when all the PC-zealots and Mac-naysayers start spreading their FUD around.

[Dont Hurt Me]

All we hear is Pod,Pod Pod, what the heck happen to a company known as Apple computer? I have yet to see a new commmercial on the new iMac. Sure it has a stale as can be Fx5200 but has anyone seen ONE commercial about a new Imac. No its fricken walkmans i mean Pods and the computers have gone where??? Crap i bought my first PC why? because of stale gaming development and as a consumer i have no other reason to get a new machine other then that. Steve you listening? Music is Great but there is more. Macs are behind in gaming and a iphone means little to a saturated market where they will be giving away phones. gGve me a new CUBE that matches or exceeeds crappy PCs. Not Dumbed down machines. AMD is moving forward and so is Intel and IBM seems as stuck as Moto was and still is.

[~Shard~]

I want to hear about a new Mac that kicks PC butt in everything including gaming and im still waiting.

Well, Macs do kick PC butt in many major areas - reliability, ease of use, the entire OS is far superior, G5 chips which benchmark faster than Xeon server-class chips, better software overall, cooler aesthetics, intelligent case design, more solid Pro apps... Is that enough for now, I could go on? ;) But yes, there is always room for improvement I suppose. Cost is always an issue, however you can't have your cake and eat it too - in other words, Macs are far superior to PCs in many ways, but that comes at a price - you get what you pay for, and for a higher quality system, you're probably paying a higher price - makes sense, no?

As for gaming, making a Mac kick PC butt when it comes to gaming would be kind of useless, since games aren't as prevalent on the Mac. I realize it's a catch-22, but Macs are not gaming platforms as they stand right now - there is little development compared to the PC world, and Macs get PC games far after the PC release in many cases - good or bad, that's the way it is. So, even if you had a Mac that could "kick PC butt" for games, well, there wouldn't be much chance to utilize this ability until game makers, etc. got on board. In other words, there is a larger issue here that would need to be addressed separate from the Mac's ability to beat the PC when it comes to games.

All that being said, G5 PowerMacs seem to handle games quite well, and if that's too pricey, I believe the iMacs do a decent job as well, far better than their G4 counterparts. Of course, many PC gamers would not be satisfied with the iMac's 5200 video card, however many of these gamers are also the ones who are only happy with the latest and greatest video cards. I shake my head and chuckle at those people who go out and pay $400 for a top-of-the-line video card only to find it low-end in 6 months, one tenth the price, and a new card out which now they must get. Yah, go ahead, spend $1000 on video cards just to have the best all the time - that's a foolish tactic and you'll never win that game. I suppose the same could be said for some gamers in general - they go out and buy their expensive Alienware systems, brag about their top of the line gaming machine, then find it lagging in 6 months and worth a fraction of what they paid for it. Then it's time to upgrade, and by the time it's all said and done I don't want to know how much money they've thrown into their system to keep it "the best"... :rolleyes: But, that's a whole other rant..... ;)

Cant remember the last time i saw a Apple computer commmercial and not some more short term pod crap.

iPod promotion was good to begin with, but I agree - everyone knows about them now, does Apple even need to promote them anymore? They're practically promoting themselves. I too would like to see more computer commercials - I think Apple needs to focus on their computers a bit more as well. Apple has an excellent opportunity to rejuvenate their computer business with the new-found focus and attention on the iPod, so I hope they don't screw it up. I did hear a story that Apple's tactic is working, and more PC-using iPod owners are switching to Macs, but I never found any articles backing up that claim. Great if it's true.... :cool:

[~Shard~]

Sure it has a stale as can be Fx5200 but has anyone seen ONE commercial about a new Imac.

Yah, Apple sure has used that FX5200 for quite a while now. They must have got one hell of a deal way back when they bought it - bulk discount for lots of 20,000,000 I'm guessing.... ;)

Don't get me wrong, it's a decent card for the average user, I've never had any problems with mine (and it was a great upgrade from my GeForce 2 MX400!), but it definitely could be swapped out sometime soon for a more up-to-date graphics card.

[shyataroo]

Maybe its the introduction of the first G5 processor that you can put into a iPod with a 1 pm process its the fastest computer that exists and will exist for another 10 years....



whoa.... lol

[Squire]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.


Isn't that what the RIAA does? They do up those John/Jane Doe suits and then go hunting, don't they?

I bet it's the Flash iPod. There were actual pics and specs on one site a while ago. The info regarding the rumored iPhone has been pretty vague.

Squire

<edit> I guess Stella beat me to it by mentioning that a page and a half ago. ;)

<edit #2> You folks are right about the amount of detail on the asteroid thing. However, it doesn't appear to be a groundbreaking product. The satellite radio info is huge, though. The competition is probably already scrambling on that rumor.

[sw1tcher]

I could care less about a flash iPod, come on iPhone!

It would be cool if this device was BOTH the flash iPod and the iPhone. Dare to dream. :p

Maybe it's the iPod-Phone-PDA.

[dotnina]

So here's another thought. Maybe the Asteroid thing is real, and maybe the iPod Flash is real, and Apple is starting to get concerned that so much info is leaking out prior to Macworld. Perhaps the lawsuit is intended to hush up employees, and they'll drop it in the coming weeks.

Haven't there been worse leaks than what we've seen lately? Or is this really as "leaky" as it's been in recent times?

[beatle888]

Amen, the same could be said about the Sirus project (though I wish it were XM). Or even the iPhone....

why? you prefer XM? i didnt like their premium channels that increase your monthly rate. i like one flat fee for every single channel.


back on topic.
as far as a possible deal with a satellite radio company for the iPod? thats perfect. i actually posted a couple days ago about what the people here at macrumors thought about such a partnership. it would be very cool...and incorporating the satellite radio stations into the iTunes Radio list....perfect.

[rdowns]

iPod promotion was good to begin with, but I agree - everyone knows about them now, does Apple even need to promote them anymore? They're practically promoting themselves. I too would like to see more computer commercials - I think Apple needs to focus on their computers a bit more as well. Apple has an excellent opportunity to rejuvenate their computer business with the new-found focus and attention on the iPod, so I hope they don't screw it up. I did hear a story that Apple's tactic is working, and more PC-using iPod owners are switching to Macs, but I never found any articles backing up that claim. Great if it's true.... :cool:

While I would love Apple to advertise on TV more, TV is a mass market medium. iPods have more mass appeal than Macs. Sad but true. That's why you see iPod TV ads and few Mac ads.

What I would like to see Apple do is come up with a new iPod TV theme that uses Macs in it. Whatever theme they use, show the person using the iPod then plugging it in to their iMac. Voice over, meet the new iMac, from the designers of the iPod.

[JupiterTwo]

I'd think this general MacWorld rumor from page 2 is most likely:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/12/20041209142551.shtml

It seems plausible enough to be true and it true it basically takes the wind out of the entire Stevenote.

I'd have to agree. Whle the Asteroid rumour has detail, this Line-up list is very specific. The trouble with it, is that everyone'd be terribly disappointed if that's all there was.

[Squire]

I'd have to agree. Whle the Asteroid rumour has detail, this Line-up list is very specific. The trouble with it, is that everyone'd be terribly disappointed if that's all there was.

The only problem is that the apparent submitter botched a Photoshop job on one of his claims in the middle of the thread and was not heard from again. Unless he was taking credit for something that wasn't his. (Or am I getting this confused with another thread?)

Squire

<edit> Check out posts #58 and #69.

[JupiterTwo]

The only problem is that the apparent submitter botched a Photoshop job on one of his claims in the middle of the thread and was not heard from again. Unless he was taking credit for something that wasn't his. (Or am I getting this confused with another thread?)

Squire

<edit> Check out posts #58 and #69.

A good point, the submitter didn't really help matters there (judging by their first post, the photoshop skills haven't really come on :rolleyes: )

Now why couldn't someone have leaked the specs to the PB G5 :D

[BWhaler]

OK fine, it was me.

I knew I was pushing my luck when I leaked the story about 10.3.7 being released this week.

Curse my need for attention.

[joeboy_45101]

the secrecy crap has got to stop. they just do this to try and make as much money as they can off of their current (old) products before releasing a new, better one for the same price.

I wish they'd do it car-manufacturer style...then they could keep secrets, but we'd still know that we were getting something soon...as it is, we may not see this device until June...and we may not see G5 powerbooks for 2 years...but at least people would know to expect something...

In my opinion I think that they should up the secrecy and security. I'm becoming extremely bored with Steve Jobs' Keynotes just for the fact that I usually have already read about the new products on the rumors sites. I would like to be surprised and shocked every once and a while. Plus, it just makes damn good business sense to be very secretive, there are many companies out there that would do just about anything to get their hands on some of the stuff the Apple engineers are dreaming up. Apple is just making sure that their asses are covered.

[Yvan256]

Isn't Apple shooting themselves in the foot? If they just ignored the "leaked" information then the public and other companies would remain skeptical, and not really know what Apple is doing. Now they have pretty much confirmed that whatever was "leaked" was real, and they want to know who is responsible. I don't understand it. At least sue after the actual product has been released.

There's been so many rumors and fake mock-ups, at this point I couldn't even guess who's got real infos about whatever new product Apple is going to release.

There's been "confirmation" on the eMac G5 from one of their own reunion (describing how "the eMac will have minimal external changes but major internal ones").

Then there's also the Motorola iTunes-enabled phone (already confirmed from Steve Jobs himself).

Apart from that, that leaves us with:

- Flash iPod (unknown capacity, but I do hope for 1GB, seeing as a friend just bought a 1GB CompactFlash card for only 129$CAN. Imagine Apple's cost for 1GB of Flash).

- iPod mini upgraded to 5GB (their competitors already have it, so IMO it's no big news here).

- the 80GB iPod Photo (the 60GB is iPod Photo only, so 80GB would also be iPod Photo). Maybe they'll drop the iPod Photo 40GB, so there's no overlapping on iPod/iPod Photo capacities.

- PowerBook G5 (not likely) or PowerBook Dual-Core G4 from Freescale (they *could* have prototype CPUs and have already begun the design or even be in the test phases, just waiting for the fabs to crank up production?). I did hear about the next PowerBooks having a black carbon fiber shell though.

- they could be bringing back the Newton, but I haven't seen any "iPad" rumors.

- there's also my "iCam" idea, but I haven't seen any rumor about that.

- then there's my "iBook mini" idea, but I haven't seen any rumor about that either.

Why are we hearing about this now? What's the latest, freshest rumor floating around? Are Apple usually slow to react to leaks? That might give us a hint about which product we might be seeing at the next show.

[virividox]

i wonder if apple will win

i mean they can fire if its an employee but if its not an employee how good are the chances

[~Shard~]

While I would love Apple to advertise on TV more, TV is a mass market medium. iPods have more mass appeal than Macs. Sad but true. That's why you see iPod TV ads and few Mac ads.

What I would like to see Apple do is come up with a new iPod TV theme that uses Macs in it. Whatever theme they use, show the person using the iPod then plugging it in to their iMac. Voice over, meet the new iMac, from the designers of the iPod.

Very true - I actually meant to say I would like to see more Mac advertisements an promotion in general as opposed to strictly "commericals" - I agree, TV is a specific media addressing a specific group and has specific characteristics.

That being said, I've seen many iMac adverts in magazines such as BusinessWeek, Fortune and many others, however I would still like to see them push it more. :cool:

[Wonder Boy]

I think iPoena sounds better :D

why not the "iSue"? :)

[Chip NoVaMac]

why? you prefer XM? i didnt like their premium channels that increase your monthly rate. i like one flat fee for every single channel.


back on topic.
as far as a possible deal with a satellite radio company for the iPod? thats perfect. i actually posted a couple days ago about what the people here at macrumors thought about such a partnership. it would be very cool...and incorporating the satellite radio stations into the iTunes Radio list....perfect.

First a sense of hometown pride, XM is in DC. Second the reception that I have heard from the other company has not been as good as XM. Was surprised that reception in the home/office wasn't better. With XM, never heard bad reception.

Getting back to the topic too (sort of), I think any satellite radio addition to an iPod would be a winner. Not sure about the technical details of the sound quality of satellite radio compared to ITMS. Though it seems to me that the ability to record songs from satellite to the iPod would be a killer app.

[Chip NoVaMac]

In my opinion I think that they should up the secrecy and security. I'm becoming extremely bored with Steve Jobs' Keynotes just for the fact that I usually have already read about the new products on the rumors sites. I would like to be surprised and shocked every once and a while. Plus, it just makes damn good business sense to be very secretive, there are many companies out there that would do just about anything to get their hands on some of the stuff the Apple engineers are dreaming up. Apple is just making sure that their asses are covered.

Right you are. Like I said before it is a situation of Apple needing to protect their markets as much as possible. With electronics it is not too hard with a 30 to 60 day lead because of a leak to take and reduce the thunder from a competitor. And IMO Apple seems to try to lead the pack, not follow it.

[unsigned]

we knew about iPod photo and U2 iPod wellllll in advance of it's release. I'd say it's this leak that they are suing over.

It could even be iMac G5. It could be that they timed the filing of the lawsuit just to scare potential leakers in the lead up to MWSF.

[Yvan256]

I could care less about a flash iPod, come on iPhone!

It would be cool if this device was BOTH the flash iPod and the iPhone. Dare to dream. :p

I could care less about a iPhone, come on flash iPod mini!

It would be cool if there was BOTH the flash iPod mini (1GB) and the iPhone (64MB).

(I don't even have a cellphone right now, nor do I plan on getting one. I hate those freakin' things) :D

[Heart Break Kid]

it might have to do with the people who leaked Tiger 8A323? Have they ever sued for beta leaks like this? I mean, 294 was leaked and so was the WWDC

[Yvan256]

I'd have to agree. Whle the Asteroid rumour has detail, this Line-up list is very specific. The trouble with it, is that everyone'd be terribly disappointed if that's all there was.

eMac G5 1.6GHz with a 64MB Radeon 9600? At those prices? Dude, I'd be more than happy! :D

Well, I do wish the Radeon 9600 had 128MB, but since "it can't have more VRAM than the next better computer (the iMac G5)", it has to have 64MB.

If the eMac G5 does come with a Radeon 9600/64MB, we might see an iMac G5 upgrade too (Radeon 9600 with 128MB), and maybe even G5 speed upgrade (to separate the eMac G5/1.6GHz with the iMac G5/1.8GHz and iMac G5/2.0GHz, 20" only).

[wdlove]

It seem that it will be very difficult for Apple to find the leaker. By the time that they seek actual redress, MWSF will be over.

[Heart Break Kid]

It seem that it will be very difficult for Apple to find the leaker. By the time that they seek actual redress, MWSF will be over.

Hypothetical - what happens if they leaker was an ADC select member? And they knew him then? Have they dont that before? If so, hve they ever filed anonymous suits?

[Mainyehc]

When you place you hard earned dollars in R&D would you revel what it is to everyone. I think not some information as you have stated is already given by companies that are involved as per Moto, IBM, Toshiba, Hitachi, etc...

Look at the clues. :)

Anyway, is it so bad that people now know that a different kind of iPod is being released? It's not like it's something revolutionary, IMHO. The iPod photo was even more different from the 4G (from a feature standpoint) than an iPod flash will be. We are talking about *storage media* and its form factor, not features! The competition: "Look, Apple is releasing a flash player! Let's make an iPod flash rip-off!"

Seriously, is this a big deal? Flash player manufacturers have had a lot of time to copy the iPod (in fact, some did, like the D-Cube, which is an aesthetical rip-off of the 1G iPod, but with a crappy interface and full plastic case). Apple doesn't lose anything by having their competitors know that an iPod flash is in the works. However, they might lose *sales*: Some people don't even need the 4GB of storage of the mini [yet], and would rather buy an iPod flash instead if it was already avaliable. They don't want anyone to know that an iPod flash is going to be released, for the same reason they don't want customers to know that the iPod mini will be bumped to a 5GB drive, not because of their competition :rolleyes:

And what if there is no iPod flash, but an iPhone-thingy instead? Big deal! There are phones with mp3 playback already... Are they as cool and popular as the iPod? Doesn't seem so... Can a Apple/Motorola be as cool as an iPod? MAYBE. So, again, no problem here. They would even gain MORE if they (Apple) revealed that iPhone thing. Some people would keep from buying a cell phone this christmas, and wait for that "thing" to be released ;)

[edit:]

Just a few more thoughts: I do understand the point of some people here that think Apple's reasons to sue are the exact opposite. It may be true that they are running out of iPods anyway, however, maybe because not all future iPod owners check on rumour sites like we do. But I still think those "60 days" may or may not be enough for some company to steal Apple's thunder, hugely depending on the company. And in some other cases, even if Apple has a ONE year lead, some other schizo weirdo monopolistic companies like Micro$oft will still think they're leading the pack. Just look at Bill Gates sayin' that they invented personal computing, and advanced desktop search and all... :rolleyes:

I mean, Apple is getting some huge press on the iMac G5 and the iPod, even though the first still has a measly 256MB of RAM and an outdated graphics card, and the latter doesn't support line in stereo recording and is only compatible with iTMS, doesn't support all the formats avaliable there, etc etc etc... What seems to be big, these days, is not being the "first", but the "best" or, in Apple's case, the most "cool" and "balanced".

[Hattig]

Wonderful, sue the people that are your best fans ...

... if this is over the Motorola/Apple phone thing, then why? How many people are putting off upgrading their phone until this is proven true or false, and released? it isn't as if there are previous Apple phones to be affected by a drop in sales.

So this might be over the Flash iPod, but again this might cannibalise a few iPod mini sales (yet Apple are selling out of all stock still, so it is a moot point surely?)

Maybe it is over previous leaks over hardware, where previous generation sales could get cannibalised by rumours of a soon-to-be-released upgrade.

[jared_kipe]

Come on iPhone... I can hope for something completely different, but seriously, the moto razor looks cool enough.

[corywoolf]

i like what i am hearing about coming products, but lets face it, theres not a chance that all of these will be presented in 1 hour. I think we will just see them in this order:

-emac
-iLife 05' w/ asteroid periphial (possibly a way to record into ipod)
-itunes enabled motorola phone
-a little talk about tiger
-powerbooks w/ carbon fiber casing
-ipod mini now 5gb
-oh and one more thing- ipod micro

did i miss anything? ;)

[bdkennedy1]

Dammit, that was the pic of the iPod flash. What a piece of crap. I'm pissed.

[swissmann]

Isn't Apple shooting themselves in the foot? If they just ignored the "leaked" information then the public and other companies would remain skeptical, and not really know what Apple is doing. Now they have pretty much confirmed that whatever was "leaked" was real, and they want to know who is responsible. I don't understand it. At least sue after the actual product has been released.

I thought the same thing at first. However, there have been a number of rumors so who is to say which one is the leaked one. Also, maybe Apple has something else to release and by putting the pressure on they hope to keep it a secret. Who knows?

[HasanDaddy]

I've got money that its the Sirius iPod

Apple isn't going to sue off of the Asteriod or Flash Based iPod, as products similar to those things, already exist

the Sirius iPod is VERY unique though ---- and considering that XM just released a tiny pocket player, it only proves that the technology is there to put a Sirius player, of that size, with an iPod interface and small HD out there

I would say iPhone too, but there just doesn't seem to be much evidence behind it --- plus, with the Treo 650 just coming out, it doesn't seem that Apple is trying to mount a campaign against it - maybe I'm wrong?

either way, I think its the Sirius iPod ---- if that rumor had been inflated even more, it could've have SEVERELY hurt Xmas sales of the iPods, as people surely would've held out from buying one, knowing a Sirius one is coming out

looks like Xmas sales haven't been hurt though

And lastly - all I want for Xmas is a G5 Powerbook

[autopilot]

iPod promotion was good to begin with, but I agree - everyone knows about them now, does Apple even need to promote them anymore? They're practically promoting themselves.

true to a degree, but while showing my mini off i constantly run into people who have no clue that it will run on their PC. people just naturally assume that because the ipod is an apple product that it will not be compatible with their PC. i think that needs to be made more clear!

(yes, i realize they say it in the commercials, but i think it could be abigger focus area. people just don't see it.)

[Trowaman]

i like what i am hearing about coming products, but lets face it, theres not a chance that all of these will be presented in 1 hour. I think we will just see them in this order:

-emac
-iLife 05' w/ asteroid periphial (possibly a way to record into ipod)
-itunes enabled motorola phone
-a little talk about tiger
-powerbooks w/ carbon fiber casing
-ipod mini now 5gb
-oh and one more thing- ipod micro

did i miss anything? ;)

Sounds about right. I'd scratch the eMac and I say the iPod micro and iPhone are the same thing. Besides that, I'd add in Keynote 2.0. The new Powerbooks would be the "one more thing." Also a new XServe, while I would not place it at MWSF, I'd expect in late Jan. or early Feb. I'd bet new G5 eMacs and new iBooks in April. As for the iMacs and Powermacs, I just don't know. Also, new Pro Video apps in March/April. Where Apple unveiled the Airport express I'd expect the 5th gen iPod featuring a Sirius radio option (pay the subscription). Also Tiger will ship at the end of March.

And those are "Joseph's Mac Hunches" for the first half of 2005 as my friends are now calling them.

[Xtremehkr]

Maybe there is something even bigger coming that hasn't been hinted at yet and the leaks are being tightened up in preperation for a surprise announcement.

[eliamx]

I have to agree, this hurts Apple. I confess, I was going to buy an iPod mini for my girlfriend for Christmas time, but I can't bring myself to make such a dumb move knowing that the iPod flash or something way better is about to come out. Sorry Apple. Obviously, this is always the case: something newer comes out weeks or months later. But, this is way too soon to Christmastime. I think they should just move MWSF to March, move Tokyo MacWorld to May, and MWNY (if that even exists anymore, thanks Boston ) to August. :p That way, MWSF isn't so darn close to Christmas for our own good. There is always that fear that the week or two after Christmas, Apple will just screw us all over with a new Powerbook, Powermac, et al. Anyway, on a lighter note: i haven't purchased the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 for fear that Apple will release an iPDA or that iPhone. iNewton Baby!!!

[abc123]

even better would be MWSF in early december, that way they could flog off all their new products over christmas. (and better yet, my parents would buy me stuff since i can't really afford most of it)

and now we know that apple take an interest in sites like these.

[Mechcozmo]

why? you prefer XM? i didnt like their premium channels that increase your monthly rate. i like one flat fee for every single channel.

The only premium channel on XM right now is the Playboy channel. Care to share something? ;)

XM has more assets than Sirus currently. And they don't have Howard Stern. (joke, BTW) Also XM offers traffic/weather reporting in dozens of major cities. Plus the music channels are commercial-free 100% of the time. It is only the non-music channels that have two commercials every 30 minutes-ish.

Maybe this is about the eMac G5, but then again, "major internal redesign" is kinda obvious. (We didn't do much... 'just' added a G5...) It should be very interesting to see who ends up getting nailed by this.

And it isn't uncommon for pictures to be removed per the request of Apple Legal. (LAW! :D)

[autopilot]

(strange time warp double post, sorry!)

[Squire]

I've got money that its the Sirius iPod

Apple isn't going to sue off of the Asteriod or Flash Based iPod, as products similar to those things, already exist

the Sirius iPod is VERY unique though ---- and considering that XM just released a tiny pocket player, it only proves that the technology is there to put a Sirius player, of that size, with an iPod interface and small HD out there

I would say iPhone too, but there just doesn't seem to be much evidence behind it --- plus, with the Treo 650 just coming out, it doesn't seem that Apple is trying to mount a campaign against it - maybe I'm wrong?

either way, I think its the Sirius iPod ---- if that rumor had been inflated even more, it could've have SEVERELY hurt Xmas sales of the iPods, as people surely would've held out from buying one, knowing a Sirius one is coming out

looks like Xmas sales haven't been hurt though

And lastly - all I want for Xmas is a G5 Powerbook

After considering all other possible products/leaks, I agree with you 100%. Of them all, it's the only revolutionary one. As others have pointed out, the Asteroid box is not a new concept (as we know it, at least), the iPhone would be entering an already saturated market, and the iPod flash would also be entering a packed market. Besides, other iPod-wannabes might try to negotiate deals with satellite radio companies. A leak could really affect the deal-making process.

Squire

[Surreal]

what about a sirius enable iphone-pod.

hehehe wouldnt be horrible...depending.

i want a job with apple and a new powerbook out pronto...in that order.

[sluthy]

Sirius isn't much use to anyone outside of the US, I know we can't get satellite in Australia. Suppose we need an iTMS first :rolleyes: (please hurry up with that, I'm dying to buy the new Finn Brothers album without EMI's CopyControl, can't find anywhere that'll do US imports and the 30-sec previews are killing me - sorry, off-topic).

BOT, the original iPod stole the market because it was practically the first of it's kind (HD-based player). But will Apple be able to compete pricewise with some of these flash players out there? I mean I can go to Harvey Norman now and buy a 512MB flash player that can play MP3 and WMA, and double as a USB stick AND an FM radio for AU$300. Sure they can improve on the interface, but will that be enough?

[corywoolf]

i love the idea of sirius in an ipod, but realisticly i think they will add wifi before that. i think next oct. they will release an ipod w/ sirius.

happy holidays.... :D

[wibbler]

sounds suspiciously like they are taking this legal action to get even more publicity for the undisclosed (as yet) thing they say they don't want publicity for (or am I just being a cynic?)

And it has worked, the story is even on the BBC's 'only Wintel's exist' tech-news pages.

Goodness, now thousands of unsuspecting Englishpersons will know that there is a company called Apple, and that this company makes something and sues people too.

Maybe next thing Apple will run an ad campaign in Britain telling the masses about a computer that DOESN'T get crippled with malware the moment you press the on switch.

Don't hold your breath though as I can't even recal seeing a single advert ANYWHERE about the opening of new multi-million dollar Apple Store in London.

An odd way to do business Steve...

[Squibnocket]

I guess what I found most interesting about the article was Reuters' less than subtle participation in the rumor-mongering.

In recent weeks, the Web sites have been buzzing with speculation that Apple will introduce a smaller, cheaper version of its market-leading iPod digital music player that uses flash memory, rather than the hard disk drives of the standard iPods.

Flash memory chips retain data stored on them even when electrical current is shut off.

Financial analysts Andy Neff of Bear Stearns and Charlie Wolf of Needham & Co. have also published notes in recent weeks mentioning flash iPods.

It seems that a reasonably reputable news source might want to keep their noses out of this less than reputable reporting style.

Matt

[HasanDaddy]

Per a page 2 rumor -

if Apple's player is $65 or so, then that would be a BIG deal

[sdf]

This move makes perfect sense to me -- if someone has broken an NDA, you need to know who it is so you can make sure you don't trust them again. And the only way they can be sure they know who it is is to use a lawsuit so they can subpoena logs.

It's pretty easy to find out who ran a story; if that's who they were after, the defendant would likely already be named. It seems they're after the person who broke an NDA that shouldn't have.

[rdowns]

The only premium channel on XM right now is the Playboy channel. Care to share something? ;)



Not true. They have added Opie and Anthony as a premium service- an extra 2 bucks a month. I expect both services to add more and more "premium" content.

http://www.xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=premium

[MikeTheC]

Ah, I dunno about all this. I can understand if Apple's got some product they don't want to have ripped off. Just take one look at China and tell me you can blame Apple or anyone else in the industry.

The age-old problem here is one of "if nobody knows you're doing anything, then it's equivalent to you really not doing anything."

[hob]

I can see it now...

MWSF 2004

Steve: "OK, so the next new feature for Tiger - Safari with RSS. And y'know what the great thing about RSS is? Almost anybody can get their own feed going, along with international giants like the BBC, CNN, MacRumors..."

Phil: [comes on stage] "Did you say MacRumors, Steve?"

Steve: "Sure did Phil"

Phil: "Y'know that's such a great site, when they produce stories like this" [displays RSS feed of leaked info story]

Steve: "Yeah - Phil? Have you met Bernie? He's just one of the many extra's we used as security guards in our 1984 advert..."

Phil: "Oh look, here come some of his buddies" [100's of armed 1984 guards pile into the hall]

Steve: "This room is surrounded. There is no escape. We will not tolerate leaked information... Big Steve Is Watching"

(I just woke up)

Hob

[hob]

what about a sirius enable iphone-pod....

Has nobody thought of the obvious - 5GB flash card rumors... iPhone... maybe it's much more of an iPodPhone than anyone thought - I mean what would be the point of Motorola getting iTunes licensed and everything just so their phone can play 5-10 songs?

Hob

[Savage Henry]

Sheesh! ... enough with the phones already .... :rolleyes:

They're about as likely as the iWaffle-Grill.

This recent dip into product-profile-protectionism is just good business practice.

[Squire]

Has nobody thought of the obvious - 5GB flash card rumors... iPhone... maybe it's much more of an iPodPhone than anyone thought - I mean what would be the point of Motorola getting iTunes licensed and everything just so their phone can play 5-10 songs?

Hob

Remember: Steve (or some lofty Apple exec) said it would be more of an iPod accessory as opposed to a competing product.

Squire

[Yvan256]

true to a degree, but while showing my mini off i constantly run into people who have no clue that it will run on their PC. people just naturally assume that because the ipod is an apple product that it will not be compatible with their PC. i think that needs to be made more clear!

(yes, i realize they say it in the commercials, but i think it could be abigger focus area. people just don't see it.)

Well, they even say "PC or Mac" ("PC and Mac"?). They say PC before Mac... don't know much clearer they need to be?

In any case, that's nothing. I still run into people who have no clue about what's clipped to my belt ("What's that?" "It's an iPod." "What's an iPod?"). :rolleyes:

[Yvan256]

Per a page 2 rumor -

if Apple's player is $65 or so, then that would be a BIG deal

From what we understand, 65$US would be Apple's cost for the parts. That doesn't include their profit, shipping and development.

It does hint at a 99$US or 129$US price tag though. If it's really 129$US for a Flash iPod mini with 1GB... Well, they better crank up production at maximum! (and if it's 99$US... be prepared for a HUGE shipping delay when you order one) :D

And if it's 99$US for a Flash iPod mini with 2GB, I'll have to call my lawyer to see if hell froze over... again.

[Yvan256]

Has nobody thought of the obvious - 5GB flash card rumors... iPhone... maybe it's much more of an iPodPhone than anyone thought - I mean what would be the point of Motorola getting iTunes licensed and everything just so their phone can play 5-10 songs?

Hob

First of all, there isn't any rumor of "5GB Flash Cards". They're 5GB CompactFlash Hard Disks (CompactFlash is a physical format, it doesn't have to be Flash Memory. There's even CompactFlash Wi-Fi cards). So the rumor about this is the iPod mini going from 4GB to 5GB, but still uses a CF-HD, like the current 4GB.

The Flash rumors are about an iPod mini using CF-Flash memory (say, 1GB) instead of CF-HD. It could be the same casing, it could be different. IMO Apple's easiest/most cost-effective solution would be to use the current iPod mini casing/interface/display, and only change the storage from CF-HD to CF-Flash, and maybe use different colors for the casing (to differenciate from the 4GB/5GB models).

As for the "iPhone" only being able to store a few songs, Steve himself said "wouldn't it be great if you could carry a dozen songs". The iPhone is not meant to be an iPod killer, not even an iPod Flash competitor (also said by Steve, "the phone is more like an iPod accessory"). I wonder if we'll be able to access the iTMS and download directly to the phone and then sync to the computer (would be great).

And lastly, here goes my theory: The flash market is too big to lose. Every flash player sold that's not an iPod is a customer who won't use iTunes (can't sync his player with iTunes), won't shop at the iTMS (can't use iTunes *and* his player can't play protected AAC, but can potentially play protected WMA), and won't buy a Mac (if potential switcher who doesn't know any better).

As you see, the low-cost Flash iPod is the best thing that could ever happen to Apple if they're really seeking new customers.

As for the PowerBook G5... forget it.

I predict the new lineup will be iBook G4, eMac G5, iMac G5, PowerMac G6 (dual CPU, dual core) and PowerBook G6 (dual core)! :D

[TopCatz]

I have to agree, this hurts Apple. I confess, I was going to buy an iPod mini for my girlfriend for Christmas time, but I can't bring myself to make such a dumb move knowing that the iPod flash or something way better is about to come out. Sorry Apple. Obviously, this is always the case: something newer comes out weeks or months later. But, this is way too soon to Christmastime. I think they should just move MWSF to March, move Tokyo MacWorld to May, and MWNY (if that even exists anymore, thanks Boston ) to August. :p That way, MWSF isn't so darn close to Christmas for our own good. There is always that fear that the week or two after Christmas, Apple will just screw us all over with a new Powerbook, Powermac, et al. Anyway, on a lighter note: i haven't purchased the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 for fear that Apple will release an iPDA or that iPhone. iNewton Baby!!!

Hang on - it sounds like you're pretty keen to buy something soon - either a new product if released soon or the existing one if there's nothing new you want - so Apple is gonna get your cash one way or the other ;)
Non-Rumour-addicts won't know and won't delay, whereas Rumour-addicts like us might defer purchases and boost sales for new products so we're all happy.
The main problem with info-leaks is not to do with consumers but with competitors. As they say in the statement, innovation IS Apple's DNA and unfortunately other 'companies' aren't afraid to be blatant, crumby copycats.

[jared_kipe]

Has nobody thought of the obvious - 5GB flash card rumors... iPhone... maybe it's much more of an iPodPhone than anyone thought - I mean what would be the point of Motorola getting iTunes licensed and everything just so their phone can play 5-10 songs?

Hob

That would be pretty sweet, on a side note, Dell is now ofering a DJ mini like thing with 5GB hard drives. They also have the stupidity to say "It holds twice as many songs as the ipod mini." Really!?! That one freaking GB doubles the capacity, how stupid are the masses really?

[Yvan256]

That would be pretty sweet, on a side note, Dell is now ofering a DJ mini like thing with 5GB hard drives. They also have the stupidity to say "It holds twice as many songs as the ipod mini." Really!?! That one freaking GB doubles the capacity, how stupid are the masses really?

Well, I don't know where you took your "twice as many songs as the iPod mini" quote, but if you do go on their website:

DELL 5 GB Pocket Digital Jukebox MP3 Player (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=PK51YR&c=us&l=en&cs=19&page=external)

"Data Storage Capability: Up to 2500 songs (64 kbps WMA audio format) / Up to 1200 songs (128 kbps MP3 audio format) in 5 GB hard drive"

That only means they're using the 64 kbps WMA to rate the capacity of their player on their main page (instead of 128 kbps MP3). I suppose Microsoft told them that WMA at 64 kbps is as good as 128 kbps MP3. :D

Lame, lame, lame.

[absolut_mac]

Yahoo Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=582&e=1&u=/nm/20041217/wr_nm/tech_apple_dc)

It seems strange to me that nobody here has mentioned the fact that Apple, the MPAA, RIAA etc can easily sue anybody, but it is not so easy for them to win. They do it in order to inimidate people in order to keep them in line.

Unfortunately for Apple, the consumer rules in California and unless propriety info was revealed I personally don't see Apple winning this one.

Especially if the rumor is a result of openly available info - hypothetical example, "Samsung say Apple has ordered 500,000 2Gig flash memory cards from them". Well, if people find openly available info and put 2+2 together, then Apple has ZERO chance of winning.

If Apple can prove that propriety info was leaked, even then, they'd have a hard time getting a conviction against the poster. They would only get a conviction against the one who leaked the info, and not necessarily against the one who posted it.

As the RIAA found out in its suit against Verizon, US justices are not too keen on making ISPs etc divulge their users names and addresses.

As I said, I don't see Apple winning this one, I see it more as a scare tactic to intimidate those thinking of posting rumors in the future. I also think that they are probably working like crazy behind the scenes to find the source of these leaks so that they can fire/sue that person.

[nc1000]

Isn't it possible that this isn't about a hardware product at all, but is instead aimed at locking down bootleg versions of Tiger? Apple's gotten more and more tight-fisted about pre-release OS versions, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that's what was going on...

There was also a bit of a freak-out on the various BT trackers when the latest 10.4 build was "released," which I think could come from fear of an imminent lawsuit -- maybe some folks got word that Apple was rattling its saber?

[BornAgainMac]

That would be pretty sweet, on a side note, Dell is now ofering a DJ mini like thing with 5GB hard drives. They also have the stupidity to say "It holds twice as many songs as the ipod mini." Really!?! That one freaking GB doubles the capacity, how stupid are the masses really?

They are trying to say that if you encode your CDs at 64kb using Microsoft's audio format that you can have twice as much music. I went to a introduction to Microsoft's technologies a few years ago and they said you can store twice as much music if you just encode everything at 64kb. Their audio format will still sound as good as 128kb (it doesn't). It was a sales pitch to get people to drop the mp3 standard. Also they don't tell you that when you buy music from online stores that it will be encoded with at least 128kb from Microsoft and other non-iTunes stores. So you don't get the advantage of twice the capacity by adding that extra GB.

"It holds twice as many songs as the ipod mini" is taken out of context. I am surprised they don't get sued.

[~Shard~]

They are trying to say that if you encode your CDs at 64kb using Microsoft's audio format that you can have twice as much music. I went to a introduction to Microsoft's technologies a few years ago and they said you can store twice as much music if you just encode everything at 64kb. Their audio format will still sound as good as 128kb (it doesn't). It was a sales pitch to get people to drop the mp3 standard. Also they don't tell you that when you buy music from online stores that it will be encoded with at least 128kb from Microsoft and other non-iTunes stores. So you don't get the advantage of twice the capacity by adding that extra GB.

"It holds twice as many songs as the ipod mini" is taken out of context. I am surprised they don't get sued.

I can beat them all with my 1 GB player which can hold ten times as much music as the iPod mini et al. - all my music is encoded in pristine 8 kbps! ;) :rolleyes:

[appleguy]

One of us might be/one of the ones sued...
But I think it is great. Only in America you can file a law suit when you dont know who the person is you are taking to court... no wonder layers are loved so much there :D

[lucasraggers]

I'm sorry folks! This legal action by Apple has everything to do with the firewire audio solution for GarageBand.

[gerlitzappel]

Isn't Apple shooting themselves in the foot? If they just ignored the "leaked" information then the public and other companies would remain skeptical, and not really know what Apple is doing. Now they have pretty much confirmed that whatever was "leaked" was real, and they want to know who is responsible. I don't understand it. At least sue after the actual product has been released.

My thoughts exactly. Now we know there is a confirmed rumor out there, somewhere.

[~Shard~]

My thoughts exactly. Now we know there is a confirmed rumor out there, somewhere.

But the fact remains, you still do not know for certain what that specific rumor is, thereby making it a moot point. :p :cool:

[Sun Baked]

But the fact remains, you still do not know for certain what that specific rumor is, thereby making it a moot point. :p :cool:Or if it's an already shipping product, further making the confirmation of a rumor pointless -- usually the shipping product does that. :p

Watch it'll probably be for something like the iPod mini, Photo, or U2 rumor.

Would be really sad if it was for the iMac G5, since Apple spilled the beans on that one.

[the_mole1314]

I'm sorry folks! This legal action by Apple has everything to do with the firewire audio solution for GarageBand.

My thoughts exactly.

[wdlove]

One of us might be/one of the ones sued...
But I think it is great. Only in America you can file a law suit when you dont know who the person is you are taking to court... no wonder layers are loved so much there :D

We have a great system here in the US. It may be the worst system, but it is better than anywhere else. Our lawyers make sure that there is full employment for all lawyers.

[remingtonhill]

Sorta - we were already drawing up the story and found your post so we decided to give you credit for posting it first by merging your thread into the front page story. :)

Where? I didn't see it.

[Wonder Boy]

My thoughts exactly.

i thought the asteriod thing was the subject as well. but those images were released a while ago. how long does it take to get everything organized and file a law suit?

[remingtonhill]

Dont know if its still around, but steve used to have a plaque from world war two, hanging in apple HQ, which read;

Loose Lips Sink Ships

I think this could be particularly applicable to the rumors regarding a flash based iPod, because if people become aware of a cheaper iPod, it could realy hurt the more expensive iPod's pre-christmas sales.

But what if someone really want's a flash based player, but Ipod quality and design and ease of use.

What if a switcher want's a new Imac, for example, and buys a new G4 Imac 3 weeks before the G5 is released?

It's the customer that looses out. How about discounting current, end of production cycle products, and being honest about whats going to be released, and when it is going to be released, and how much it is going to cost?

With that type of honesty and information, I CAN DECIDE if I want a discounted g4 imac now, at $200 less then a new g5 imac (or whatever) or wait for the more expensive g5 version.

By the way I have not yet had the opportunity to buy a *new* apple computer, so this situation has not happened to me. :-> I am user though.

Yeah Apple may loose a tiny little bit of profit by doing this. Honesty and ethics has it's cost's sometimes. Upset customers who purchase products, at the same price, as they would on new, better products had they waited a few weeks has it's costs to a company as well.

As consumers, (I assume all of us are) this benefits us. If Apple (or any company) can be honest with us, that would promote customer loyalty in a big way.

[remingtonhill]

Very true - I actually meant to say I would like to see more Mac advertisements an promotion in general as opposed to strictly "commericals" - I agree, TV is a specific media addressing a specific group and has specific characteristics.

That being said, I've seen many iMac adverts in magazines such as BusinessWeek, Fortune and many others, however I would still like to see them push it more. :cool:


Interesting the lack of computer (Imac) commercials is an issue here. Especially when considering the much praised and very classic 1984 commerical.

[Mechcozmo]

Not true. They have added Opie and Anthony as a premium service- an extra 2 bucks a month. I expect both services to add more and more "premium" content.

http://www.xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=premium

Ah... then I guess that little card that comes with it showing me the channels are outdated. Whoopsie. But there is quite a bit of other free channels on XM... and it is bundled in all GM cars.

I wonder if we are missing something. Like, this might be over something much much else than current rumors. The time it would take to confirm, etc... it could even be over a code name for something.

Remember, it wasn't me!

[hob]

But what if someone really want's a flash based player, but Ipod quality and design and ease of use.

What if a switcher want's a new Imac, for example, and buys a new G4 Imac 3 weeks before the G5 is released?

It's the customer that looses out. How about discounting current, end of production cycle products, and being honest about whats going to be released, and when it is going to be released, and how much it is going to cost?

I see where you're coming from, and it does make sense. But - I remember reading a book by the guy who did Dilbert, and he referenced a technology company who went bankrupt - and this is how:

Hey! Welcome to X Electronics! We're just working on our X-100 system, it'll do X Y and Z - Pre order now, for release July!

June: Hey! as well as the X-100 system, you can now order the X-250, which will do X Y and Z 2x faster - Pre order now!

And so on and so on, and by the time their 4th generation product was ready they'd lost so much money due to customers holding off on buying, waiting for the next one.

On the flipside, a friend of mine just bought a powerbook, knowing full well that there was likely to be a new one announced at MWSF, but wanting it all the same...

I dunno, I think the amount a company would lose due to people waiting would be more than they'd make with people chosing...

If that makes sense

Hob

[solvs]

Also they don't tell you that when you buy music from online stores that it will be encoded with at least 128kb from Microsoft and other non-iTunes stores. So you don't get the advantage of twice the capacity by adding that extra GB.
Worse since, as you said, at least 128. Some are even higher, so even less space. And they still don't sound as good as AAC at 128. :p Most people nowadays know what up to means anyway.

[AidenShaw]

And they still don't sound as good as AAC at 128.


This test doesn't agree with you....


http://www.rjamorim.com/test/128extension/results.html

"All modern codecs are tied at first place, simple as that."

[Avicdar]

We have a great system here in the US. It may be the worst system, but it is better than anywhere else. Our lawyers make sure that there is full employment for all lawyers.

What makes you think the U.S. legal system is better than anywhere else?

:)

Next thing you know you will be saying that the U.S. has the best intelligence in the world. lol

[solvs]

This test doesn't agree with you....


http://www.rjamorim.com/test/128extension/results.html

"All modern codecs are tied at first place, simple as that."
If you'd like, I can post some links to other sites that would disagree with you. In my informal tests, WMA sounds a little better than MP3s at the same bit rate, but still worse than AAC (though to be fair, not by much). If you'd like to provide a link to someone saying WMA is better, I would like to see it.

Though I suppose, if your point is WMAs at 192 sound better than AACs at 128, I suppose that could be argued at true. AACs at 192 are pretty much no contest.

[X-Baz]

I see where you're coming from, and it does make sense. But - I remember reading a book by the guy who did Dilbert, and he referenced a technology company who went bankrupt - and this is how:



http://www.pattosoft.com.au/jason/Articles/HistoryOfComputers/1980s.html
http://oldcomputers.net/osborne.html

It was the Osbourne 1 - everyone was busy waiting for the Osbourne 2 and therefore holding off buying the 1. As sales dropped to zero the company ran out of cash and went bust before they could release the 2.

At the end of the day, Apple is sat on a pile of cash and is debt-free - so they must be doing something right.

[AidenShaw]

Though I suppose, if your point is WMAs at 192 sound better than AACs at 128, I suppose that could be argued at true. AACs at 192 are pretty much no contest.


Note the "128" in the URL that I posted - the tests were blind comparisons of 128 Kbps tracks. (For the VBR codecs, it was 128 average.)

The AAC codec is a good one, but so is WMA. The conclusion of the test was that there's no significant quality difference between them on most material. (Where there is a difference, sometimes AAC comes out ahead, sometimes WMA.)

People who categorically claim that AAC is better are either fanbois or Apple marketeers. AAC at 128 and WMA at 128 both suck the same.

I won't buy AAC at 128 Kbps, neither will I buy WMA at 128 Kbps (and MP3 isn't even worth considering). Until I can legally download lossless or very nearly lossless, I'll buy CDs and rip....

Anyway, what was the lawsuit about?

[Heart Break Kid]

Isn't it possible that this isn't about a hardware product at all, but is instead aimed at locking down bootleg versions of Tiger? Apple's gotten more and more tight-fisted about pre-release OS versions, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that's what was going on...

There was also a bit of a freak-out on the various BT trackers when the latest 10.4 build was "released," which I think could come from fear of an imminent lawsuit -- maybe some folks got word that Apple was rattling its saber?

Thats what im saying. Im thinking this has everything to do with the BT leaks of tiger, and nothing to do with hardware.

[Laslo Panaflex]

Thats what im saying. Im thinking this has everything to do with the BT leaks of tiger, and nothing to do with hardware.

Wrong, it says that inside information about an un announced upcoming product was released, there is very little about Tiger that Apple themselves haven't already disclosed. Plus, anyone can get a copy of Tiger if they pay the premiere ADC fee.

Granted I believe that Apple isn't happy with the Tiger leaks, but that is just what happens when you are public testing an alpha os, it's gonna get leaked onto the intraweb. Plus, I really don't think that apple has any grounds to sue over any "leak" when they are the source of the leak.

[Yvan256]

I can beat them all with my 1 GB player which can hold ten times as much music as the iPod mini et al. - all my music is encoded in pristine 8 kbps! ;) :rolleyes:

Imagine what you can do with HE-AAC! Pristine 6kbps! You'll get 25% more space! :D

Edit: I just tested it for fun at 8 kbps... You don't want to have your library at 8 kbps! (it sounds like AM radio, with lots of static, heard through a 10 meters copper pipe)

Actually, I'm pretty impressed anyway. It does sound like crap, but that's only 1 KByte/sec!

Edit 2: hey wait a minute, that song's 3m36s... If it really was 1KB/sec, shouldn't the file be around 216KB? Why is it 445KB?

Edit 3: silly me, the song had 219KB of artwork. The file is 226KB. :D

[Heart Break Kid]

Wrong, it says that inside information about an un announced upcoming product was released, there is very little about Tiger that Apple themselves haven't already disclosed. Plus, anyone can get a copy of Tiger if they pay the premiere ADC fee.

Granted I believe that Apple isn't happy with the Tiger leaks, but that is just what happens when you are public testing an alpha os, it's gonna get leaked onto the intraweb. Plus, I really don't think that apple has any grounds to sue over any "leak" when they are the source of the leak.

So you're saying an adc member that leaks info to a BT site isn't going to get sued? Or this isn't the general path they would take to suing such an individual?

[Yvan256]

I'm sorry folks! This legal action by Apple has everything to do with the firewire audio solution for GarageBand.

Well, if it is, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Yes, that device might be nice but it sure doesn't seem like something for the public at large.

Come on, iBook mini! ;)

[Laslo Panaflex]

So you're saying an adc member that leaks info to a BT site isn't going to get sued? Or this isn't the general path they would take to suing such an individual?

I don't think you understand, what inside, damaging info are the ADC members "leaking"? Apple is giving the Alphas of Tiger to ADC members that pay for it, so in essence Apple is selling them Tiger, hardly seems like leaked information of an unannounced product that, if in the hands of a competitor could be damaging, which is what Apple is claiming.

Again, not that Apple isn't concerned with Tiger "leaks" but this is not the nature of the lawsuit, it is about an upcoming hardware product, the timing is too close to MWSF. If it were about beta OS leaks, panther, tiger, whatever, it would have been done months, or years ago, if there is any case at all for it.

/trust me, I leaked the "information" :D

[Yvan256]

People who categorically claim that AAC is better are either fanbois or Apple marketeers. AAC at 128 and WMA at 128 both suck the same.

They're both lossy, but they're also both a lot younger than MP3. It'd be hard to argue the AAC 128 vs WMA 128 case. It's more of a "who do you want to be in control of your rights?", in which case I do hope you don't answer "Microsoft".

But MP3 128 vs AAC/WMA 128 is a no-brainer. Yes, LAME is an excellent MP3 encoder, but MPEG Audio Layer 3 is about a decade old now. It's kind of normal that it gets beaten by the new CODECs.

My real question is, what's this "MPC" format on the charts? I've heard about ADPCM, MP3, MP3Pro, VQF, WMA, AAC, Apple Lossless, Vorbis, FLAC, but this "MPC" format is new to me!

[Heart Break Kid]

I don't think you understand, what inside, damaging info are the ADC members "leaking"? Apple is giving the Alphas of Tiger to ADC members that pay for it, so in essence Apple is selling them Tiger, hardly seems like leaked information of an unannounced product that, if in the hands of a competitor could be damaging, which is what Apple is claiming.

Again, not that Apple isn't concerned with Tiger "leaks" but this is not the nature of the lawsuit, it is about an upcoming hardware product, the timing is too close to MWSF. If it were about beta OS leaks, panther, tiger, whatever, it would have been done months, or years ago, if there is any case at all for it.

/trust me, I leaked the "information" :D


Well, i did too and i got a call from apple legal. I just wanna make sure this annonymous john doe isnt infact ME!

[Laslo Panaflex]

Well, i did too and i got a call from apple legal. I just wanna make sure this annonymous john doe isnt infact ME!

Ouch, well, I was joking when I said that I was leaking information. If you were contacted about "leaking" Tiger, I find it hard for them to prove that it was you, unless each download of Tiger disc image from ADC site puts some meta data into the disc image (unlikely) that allows Apple to track whose disc image has been leaked.

If you were in fact contacted, I would take it as a warning to stop, not a sign of being sued . . . but who knows.

[Heart Break Kid]

Ouch, well, I was joking when I said that I was leaking information. If you were contacted about "leaking" Tiger, I find it hard for them to prove that it was you, unless each download of Tiger disc image from ADC site puts some meta data into the disc image (unlikely) that allows Apple to track whose disc image has been leaked.

If you were in fact contacted, I would take it as a warning to stop, not a sign of being sued . . . but who knows.

Yeah, it was a stupid thing to do - and i felt like an arse for doing it. And they pretty much new it was me anyway. So basically, I'm going to jail. God, I hope I dont have some big guy named bertha as my cell mate.

[Over Achiever]

Yeah, it was a stupid thing to do - and i felt like an arse for doing it. And they pretty much new it was me anyway. So basically, I'm going to jail. God, I hope I dont have some big guy named bertha as my cell mate.
Hee ;) :D

You need to add smileys to the end or at least let us know it's sarcastic, some people worry about you.

[VicMacs]

Sheesh! ... enough with the phones already .... :rolleyes:

They're about as likely as the iWaffle-Grill.

This recent dip into product-profile-protectionism is just good business practice.


its the iHump I knew it! So long people I'm moving to United Arab Emirates!

[Heart Break Kid]

Hee ;) :D

You need to add smileys to the end or at least let us know it's sarcastic, some people worry about you.

I appreciate it :)

Will definatley add smileys once I find out ofr certain Im NOT THE John Doe. Lots of smileys if I dont get sued and sent to jail

[AidenShaw]

My real question is, what's this "MPC" format on the charts?

Musepack http://www.musepack.net/

[kirk26]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Then in that case I am suing an unknown party for an unknown reason for an unknown amount in damages. I will amend the complaint once I find out who did what and decide on the appropriate penalty.

:D


That's the norm in the US.

[Yvan256]

Musepack http://www.musepack.net/

Thanks!

[ioinc]

Too many lawyers, not enough development.

[~Shard~]

Too many lawyers, not enough development.

Actualy, just the first part of your statement is true enough.... :cool:

[JRM]

This lawsuit is merely Apple acting tough over any one of the many rumours whether it be iPhone, Siruis or iPod Flash in an attempt to prevent employees from spreading information on the G5 Mac World where we will see 2GHZ G5 PB's and Dual 3GHZ PM's.

Bring it on!!!!!

[joecirca79]

Well, if it has anything to do with the G5 Power book, I may know who they are going after. Something was leaked on a forum I visit where there was talk about the status of the G5 in the PB line. I hope not though. :confused:

[jettredmont]

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtml

Sigh. The rumor which least excited me ... :(

[Heart Break Kid]

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtml

Sigh. The rumor which least excited me ... :(


TO OVERACHIEVER -


here are my many smilies :)

:D :D :) :) :D :)
YAAAY!! Im not going to jail!!!...atleast yet :)

[nagromme]

Hooray! I called it :) But my victory is bitter. I forgot the source (at least, the image I saw (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=756)) was AI.

If people are violating agreements or spying on Apple operations illegally, and tipping off Apple's competitors with the release of trade secrets, then they've got to go after them.

But please don't let that alarm anyone who's doing it... I like the rumors :D

I'll take a stab and say it's over the Asteroid thing. That was a pretty specific one (ThinkSecret?).


Now rumor sites are being asked for the identity of sources. Sounds like a tough position to be in.

[Doctor Q]

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtmlCredit to jettredmont for pointing out this story. Now at last we know what we've been talking about for three days!

[Wonder Boy]

Asteriod! I was right! I was right! Happy Day, I knew it!

[Macmaniac]

Let the bitching begin for the non release of the other products we were hoping for ;) :rolleyes:

[irmongoose]

Jobs: Dammit! How did those fuchers get the scoop on Asteroid!? We kept all the information in-house -- executives-only, too!

Schiller: Ugh, Steve... it was me.




irmongoose

[Surreal]

so. it was the asteroid


can we daisy chain these? will an 8 xlr version be out anytime if we can't daisy chain these?

live micing is a ^$#%#$

[WannaWiki]

blah, asteriod? how disappointing. But I'm sure there will be alot of people who will use it and that it will be a quality product. I was pulling for the iPhone. Does anybody know when Tiger will be coming out? I was hoping for January, but there's never rumors about it's release?

[AidenShaw]

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtml

Sigh. The rumor which least excited me ... :(


Right - it's just a smoke screen to cover up the imminent release of the Powerbook G5.

That, and a ploy to make sure that all the people who got Powerbook G4's as Saturnalia presents will feel cheated!


And, for those of you with the genetic defect that leaves you unable to recognize sarcasm - :D

[Skull Leader]

why not the "iSue"? :)

Don't forget the Special Edition iSueU2. :D

[silvergunuk]

I'll buy Asteroid when it has a G5 in it!!!!

[broken_keyboard]

Asteroid? That's a potential very useful but not very cool product. Nothing to get your knickers in a twist about.

[nagromme]

On the bright side, if this link pertains to consumer music creation, Apple doesn't stand to be harmed TOO much... they're pretty much standing alone with GarageBand (free with every Mac, no less).

But as the suit says, Apple believes the same party(s) are continuing to leak OTHER info. It could get very damaging, so Apple does have to stop them.

[DarkSideofMoon]

Good Lord!!! Has our friend Paul ever been right???!!!

http://www.internet-nexus.com/2004_12_12_archive.htm#110334228449139956

According to this Reuters report, Apple Computer today basically confirmed rumors that it has been developing a flash-based iPod MP3 player, which it will likely debut next month at MacWorld San Francisco.

What does basically actually mean? :rolleyes:

[hob]

Good Lord!!! Has our friend Paul ever been right???!!!

http://www.internet-nexus.com/2004_12_12_archive.htm#110334228449139956

According to this Reuters report, Apple Computer today basically confirmed rumors that it has been developing a flash-based iPod MP3 player, which it will likely debut next month at MacWorld San Francisco.

What does basically actually mean? :rolleyes:

Also he's paranoid:

25.5% of 979 respondents claim to own an iPod

claim to own?! What is he questioning their responses?!

Sorry

Hob

[rikers_mailbox]

So this Asteroid thingy is a new consumer product. . . . should we then expect to see Garageband for Windows?

That is, after all, Apple's current business strategy. Market to the masses until they are yours. :D

[hob]

So this Asteroid thingy is a new consumer product. . . . should we then expect to see Garageband for Windows?

That is, after all, Apple's current business strategy. Market to the masses until the they are yours. :D

Well it could be based on that eMagic breakout box which was compatable with PC+Mac...

Hob

[rikers_mailbox]

Well it could be based on that eMagic breakout box which was compatable with PC+Mac...

Hob

eMagic was for PC+Mac? I didn't realize! :eek: What's eMagic again?

<sigh> oh, off to the Apple website again. . .

[x86isslow]

eMagic was for PC+Mac? I didn't realize! :eek: What's eMagic again?

<sigh> oh, off to the Apple website again. . .


i doubt you'd find it on apple's website since eMagic is an apple subsidiary, not an actual division a la` iPod/mac

[rikers_mailbox]

i doubt you'd find it on apple's website since eMagic is an apple subsidiary, not an actual division a la` iPod/mac

absolutely right. I got bored of searching for info about eMagic because there's nothing recent. Since Apple acquired (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jul/01emagic.html) them in July of 2002 there hasn't been much news. eMagic was basically sucked into Logic 7, never to be seen again.

Pointless search anyways. Asteroid is for Garageband, right?

[JohnGillilan]

When Apple acquired eMagic several years back, they phased out all Windows support rather quickly. At this point, Logic 7 has been developed exclusively for OS X. I would bet that GarageBand is based on a lot of the same framework as Logic and Soundtrack (also an OS X only product). I think a Windows port of GarageBand is highly unlikely.

[nagromme]

Asteroid is expected, i believe, to have support in the OS and various apps--not just GarageBand, although that will certainly be one major market.

[windywalks]

This just doesn't make sense since Asteroid is a relatively old rumor so why on earth are they reacting with such a delay. As for me the Asteroid mock up published some time ago lacked versatility in its interface. This just doesn't satisfy me. I hope to see the new iPod soon.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Man, I really had fingers and toes crossed for it to be the iPhone (or whatever it is called). My old T68i is starting to show signs of wear and tear, and need replacing soon. An Apple branded phone, syncing seemlessly with iCal, Address Book (all information from both) and maybe other apps would be great.

For me, musically challenged as I am, I couldn't care less about Asteroid, or anything else to do with GarageBand. An otherwise cool app which I have absolutely no need for...

[toughboy]

After 3-4 days of "what can it be" dreams, is this it?!?!?! Come oooooooon... :mad:

In my opinion, Apple is trying to cool things up by giving such a name of a device. That Asteroid thing isnt exciting enough to silence by law.. There must be another thing..

or I'm waaaaaaaay too dissapointed :(

[FFTT]

I suppose Apple was hoping that we all would be stunned and amazed
at their new product releases, when we already have a fairly good idea of what's coming.

In many ways our speculation puts constructive pressure on Apple to perform well.

This is evident by our desire to see a dual core QuadraMac.

What probably gets their panties in an uproar the most is when the
rumor community strongly advises people to wait rather than purchase
existing products.

Hopefully Apple will have something more than accessories to announce
this January.

[jocknerd]

As much as I love OS X and my Power Mac G5, Apple's willingness to unleash their lawyers as much as they do remind me why I still prefer Linux. You must always be a little cautious of big corporations and Apple is just another big corporation that likes to hurt the little guy.

[Sabenth]

A load of fluf is u ask me once again whats it matter what comes and goes on a website chirst they best sue this site and god knows what else with so called rumors that become reality GO THE iPhone wooot

[jettredmont]

As much as I love OS X and my Power Mac G5, Apple's willingness to unleash their lawyers as much as they do remind me why I still prefer Linux. You must always be a little cautious of big corporations and Apple is just another big corporation that likes to hurt the little guy.

Ummm ... the "little guy" ceased to be the "little guy" when he signed an NDA in exchange for the "big" (or not so big, depending on the price of said soul) bucks, then violated that NDA in both letter and spirit by publishing trade secrets.

Its like saying the FBI just doesn't look out for the "little guy" because they arrest smugglers.

There is a thin but quite distinct line between what is tacitly allowed and what is not. Giving detailed product sketches, specs, and market placement data crosses that line, because it gives a very strong advantage to a company's competitors.

[Les Kern]

Of course, let me amend my earlier suit.

Too funny. ;)

Not funny. They can and they should. It's one thing to have an obscure web site guess at new Apple releases, and quite another to divulge company plans while under contract. Getting inside information out has a direct result on earnings related to competition. If the iPod had truly leaked out a year before launch, do you think Apple would have had the same success? Nope. The bigger companies like Sony and HP would have beat them to the punch because they would have had more time to plan and more time to feed the media machine with hints of their new devices.
They should find out who did it and sue for damages that will make others think twice.

[AidenShaw]

It's one thing to have an obscure web site guess at new Apple releases, and quite another...

Hmmmm... A frequent contributor to a rumors site argues that those who actually contribute true information should be punished. Now that's too funny. ;) (Not that I don't agree with you about honoring an NDA, but why follow a rumors site unless you're looking for info that Apple doesn't want you to know?)

A lot of hypocrisy in the Real Harmony thread too - let Apple throw its weight around defending its position in music, yet punish Microsoft by claiming that each and every innovation from Redmond is somehow connected with bribing the Bush DOJ.

Oh, and don't forget to bash Motorola - even while IBM's ineptitude is causing Apple to delay new systems, and to trickle out systems with even minor speed bumps.

Ridicule Microsoft for quality problems, while praising Apple for 10.3.7 (even though it was obviously rushed out to undo some of the damage done by 10.3.6). Mock Microsoft for security bugs, while Apple opens up a security hole in Apache that's simply astounding.

And, of course, ignore real news like Apple's Xsan falls behind schedule (http://news.com.com/Apples+Xsan+falls+behind+schedule/2100-1012_3-5498360.html).... :eek:

What an entertaining forum !! ;)

[Bandit]

The same article from appleinsider that mentioned asteroid also said that it was to be released next to a new version of iLife. That is what I am more excited about.

[wdlove]

If Apple has a good case then by all means they should sue. The problem will be getting a judgement for damages that cause the other company to sit up and take notice. The amount has to hurt some to be effective.

[Gasu E.]

In my opinion, Apple is trying to cool things up by giving such a name of a device. That Asteroid thing isnt exciting enough to silence by law.. There must be another thing..
:(


The reason Apple is suing about Asteroid is precisely because this is a minor product. A lawsuit has the side effect of confirming the veracity of the rumor. They would not want to do this for a product for which they are expecting significant revenues, such as an iPod variant.

Apple is doing this to snuff out and/or intimidate insider rumor sources in general. This is not really about Asteroid.

[real_murray]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.


:D


Sure you can. Just look at the RIAA. They've been filing "John Doe" lawsuites for a while now. Push the paperwork through now, get a supeona for the names later.

[hayesk]

A lot of hypocrisy in the Real Harmony thread too - let Apple throw its weight around defending its position in music, yet punish Microsoft by claiming that each and every innovation from Redmond is somehow connected with bribing the Bush DOJ.

Uhm... what MS Innovations are you talking about? And do you think Apple isn't allowed to fix a hole in their DRM code? They should bend over backwards and contribute money to allow a competitor to take away sales and leech of the iPod's popularity? Please.


Ridicule Microsoft for quality problems, while praising Apple for 10.3.7 (even though it was obviously rushed out to undo some of the damage done by 10.3.6). Mock Microsoft for security bugs, while Apple opens up a security hole in Apache that's simply astounding.

Uhm... you don't really understand the issue do you? Apple didn't open a security hole in Apache - they closed one in their default Apache config. There is no OS hole as the media reported - it was a hole in the config files in Apache - Apple's responsibility is to fix their own config, not anyone elses. Accessing named forks is a legitimate function of the File System and it's up to the server developers to ensure it doesn't get done by those who shouldn't.

And, of course, ignore real news like Apple's Xsan falls behind schedule (http://news.com.com/Apples+Xsan+falls+behind+schedule/2100-1012_3-5498360.html).... :eek:

What an entertaining forum !! ;)

What is the point of your post?

If you have a rumour to contribute to the XSan delivery then start a thread, if not, why would we be discussing it? It seems to me that the purpose of this post was not to contribute any useful information, but just to troll and get a reaction. Well, I replied, so I guess it worked.
:confused:

[iMan]

As much as I love OS X and my Power Mac G5, Apple's willingness to unleash their lawyers as much as they do remind me why I still prefer Linux. You must always be a little cautious of big corporations and Apple is just another big corporation that likes to hurt the little guy.

Once upon a time there was a little redheaded computer company that was almost bankrupt. Lucky for them they got comissioned to do some work for Granny developing apps for a completely new computer OS.
Problem was that inside that redhead was a hungry wolf lurking... and the wolf was pretty smart, it just ate the whole OS and before noone could react it spitted out it's own copy (albeit a bad one) even before Granny could get her own to market.

I think Apple has learned a lot about the effects of industrial espionage and how to control it - the hard way. You actually have to be a bit paranoid to be in the niche they are anyway - everyone knows that Apple - eventhough small - are one of the companies innovating the computer industry. That's why we also are so eager to hear rumors about what they are up to :)

[AidenShaw]

And do you think Apple isn't allowed to fix a hole in their DRM code?

What if Apple had figured out a way to play WMA protected content on the Ipod, and then Microsoft tweaked it a bit to disable Apple's "hack"? Would there be a chorus of "Good for Microsoft, it needs to protect its innovations in DRM"? Not likely

You're assuming that Apple's fixed a bug, just like I'm assuming that they deliberately blocked a competitor.

Someday the truth will come out.


Uhm... you don't really understand the issue do you? Apple didn't open a security hole in Apache - they closed one in their default Apache config.

What I don't understand is what difference the technical nature of the problem has on the effect.

As shipped, for quite some time Apple's Apache implementation had a huge security hole. Apple has fixed the problem, does the fact that it was a configuration change rather than a code change mean anything?


What is the point of your post?

It's just amusing how any story of "$COMPANY$ sues", or "$COMPANY$ issues security warning" or "$COMPANY$ blocks competitor" is interpreted differently depending on whether COMPANY is "Microsoft" or "Apple", "Motorola" or "IBM", "RIAA" or....

Just amusing to see the rationalizations, that's all.

[absolut_mac]

Apple is doing this to snuff out and/or intimidate insider rumor sources in general. This is not really about Asteroid.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Apple knew that by filing this lawsuit they would be confirming the introduction of a new product prior to its release. Something that they obvioulsy don't want to get into the habit of doing.

IMHO this whole episode is just an excuse for Apple to file a few subpoenas so that they can get the names of those Apple employees who are leaking inside info, and sue/fire them in order to intimidate future *leakers* into thinking twice before doing so.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, if rumors based on known outside info - eg flash based iPods - abound, I personally don't see anything wrong with it, and doubt that Apple can do anything about it either, other than file frivolous law suits.

On the other hand, leaking inside proprietary info falls into the category of industrial espionage and Apple has every right to defend itself against such. Especially in light of the confidentiality agreements signed by every single one of their employees.

[absolut_mac]

Good Lord!!! Has our friend Paul ever been right???!!!

Every circus has a lead clown, and Paul is MS's lead clown. His sole purpose is to entertain the masses until MS introduces Longwait, oops I mean Longhorn.

[swissmann]

I personally still hope that the iPod flash rumors are also true if it is indeed this Asteroid product that is the center of the law suit.

[TednDi]

I think iPoena sounds better :D

I think you are right!!

iPoena! new for the Holidays!

Now with larger capacity damages!

get one for the lawyer in your house!

:eek:

[TednDi]

I think that this holiday season the folks at Apple will be visited by the ghosts of apple's past (Lisa) the ghost of apples present (newton) and the ghost of apple's future (the ever dreaded MSAPPLE)


C'mon take the chains off guys.

[TranceClubMusic]

HA HA HA
Everyone on this Forum has ALWAYS said...............Apple never reads Rumor Sites! Well I beg to differ and I think Apple reads these sites a whole lot more then what most people think. ;)

[sinisterdesign]

You can file suit without knowing who? Wow.

Then in that case I am suing an unknown party for an unknown reason for an unknown amount in damages. I will amend the complaint once I find out who did what and decide on the appropriate penalty.

:D

WHAT??!? you're suing me?? how dare you! you have NO proof that i was even AT that unspecified place when i was supposedly doing the afforementioned unspecified crime. i'll see you in sn undetermined court...and bring your unknown lawyer....you'll need them.

[desdomg]

I think we should boycott the sites in question untill the hand over the names.

Interesting too that MacRumours is not listed. I guess it shows how low it has slipped .... no real sources anymore just news from outside.

[Doctor Q]

[Update 2] The Mac Observer reports (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtml) that on December 14 Apple received court approval to serve subpoenas on AppleInsider.com, PowerPage.org, and ThinkSecret.com, requesting "documents, images and communications" that might identify the person or persons who leaked Asteroid details.

The article quotes from Apple's complaint:To succeed, Apple must develop innovative products and bring those products to market in advance of its competitors. If Apple competitors were aware of Apple's future production information, those competitors could benefit economically from that knowledge by directing their product development or marketing to frustrate Apple's plans.AppleInsider.com, PowerPage.org, and ThinkSecret.com themselves are not defendants in Apple's suit, but particular individuals at those sites are named as possible sources of information in finding the person(s) responsible for the leak. Apple has 60 days to identify each defendant in the lawsuit, which seeks "unspecified monetary damages in excess of US$25,000 as well as punitive damages".

[MattG]

[Update 2] The Mac Observer reports (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/12/20.7.shtml) that on December 14 Apple received court approval to serve subpoenas on AppleInsider.com, PowerPage.org, and ThinkSecret.com, requesting "documents, images and communications" that might identify the person or persons who leaked Asteroid details.

The article quotes from Apple's complaint:AppleInsider.com, PowerPage.org, and ThinkSecret.com themselves are not defendants in Apple's suit, but particular individuals at those sites are named as possible sources of information in finding the person(s) responsible for the leak. Apple has 60 days to identify each defendant in the lawsuit, which seeks "unspecified monetary damages in excess of US$25,000 as well as punitive damages".

Wow. This could get messy.

[SiliconAddict]

IMHO this whole episode is just an excuse for Apple to file a few subpoenas so that they can get the names of those Apple employees who are leaking inside info, and sue/fire them in order to intimidate future *leakers* into thinking twice before doing so.


Naa the whole episode is Steve throwing a temper tantrum. Lets be frank for a second. Jobs has a history of going nuts about someone or some company *coughs*ati*coughs*Toshiba*coughs* upstaging him. You can bet cash this was going to debut in January. All of a sudden the cat is out of the bag and the shinyness on Steve's new toy isn't there anymore. Is this a way to put the fear of god into the people doing the leaking? Sure but don't think that Steve's ego didn't have something to do with it.
And then there is the whole going after the rumor site's sources which IMHO is a serious slap against freedom of the press. I hope someone takes on Apple. Is there not legal precedent on the right to protect one's sources?

[Omad0n]

And then there is the whole going after the rumor site's sources which IMHO is a serious slap against freedom of the press. I hope someone takes on Apple. Is there not legal precedent on the right to protect one's sources?
From the second update it would appear that Apple isn't going after the sources, just the people who actually leaked the info.

[Doctor Q]

Apple's court filings provide other interesting information, such as that there may be more than one person doing the leaking, that he/she/them may be Apple employee(s), and that the leaks may be continuing.

Or maybe they have to say those things just in case it turns out to be the case.

[Yvan256]

What if Apple had figured out a way to play WMA protected content on the Ipod, and then Microsoft tweaked it a bit to disable Apple's "hack"? Would there be a chorus of "Good for Microsoft, it needs to protect its innovations in DRM"? Not likely.


If Apple did reverse-engineering to play protected WMA files and then Microsoft changed something that broke Apple's hack, Apple would simply try to hack it again, but wouldn't complain to Microsoft about it. A hack is a hack, nothing's guaranteed.

What's happening between Apple and Real is that Real hacked his way, Apple changed it, and now Real is bitching about it instead of just shutting up and going back to try hacking it again. Apple refused to license their stuff to Real, Real acts like a garage hacker, and then acts all surprised that Apple reacts about what they're doing.

Well, though luck Real, you knew what you were getting into.

[Yvan256]

HA HA HA
Everyone on this Forum has ALWAYS said...............Apple never reads Rumor Sites! Well I beg to differ and I think Apple reads these sites a whole lot more then what most people think. ;)

Really?

Ok then.

WHERE'S MY HEADLESS, LOW-COST G5 MAC COMPUTER? WHERE, WHERE, WHERE? :D

I'd settle for a nicely-equipped eMac G5 if the prices don't go up (the G5/1.6MHz and Radeon 9600/64MB would be ok for the eMac, but I do wish it was 128MB VRAM, at least as a BTO option). I only hope the superdrive model is LightScribe-capable (that thing looks too cool).

[bignumbers]

My theory is this isn't about the flash iPod, but the music interface thing that popped up a couple weeks back. The info and drawings were very detailed, and so consistent they seemed to have one source. The flash iPod stuff is bits and pieces from all over, not to mention a logical product addition that shouldn't surprise anyone. Same with the rumored 5GB iPod mini. But the music interface is somewhat out of left field, and as I said, specific.

Yahoo - I was right! Do I win a prize?

I'm torn about the story as it now stands. Apple can, and should, fight to keep their secrets. (And that's said by someone who reads the rumor sites daily.) It sounds like someone leaked something a little too significant for their own good.

But these rumor sites are (minor) legitimate news publications. I'm HUGE on freedom of the press. Publishing secret info isn't illegal - there's a long legal history to back that up. I suspect these sites are too small to have legal representation to fight the subpoenas, but if they could they should win. Freedom of the press is a Very Good Thing (TM) and even in the relatively little world of Mac news it shouldn't be ignored.

But again, I can't blame Apple at all for doing what they're doing. Maybe some good lawyer will take up the rumor sites case pro-bono.

[Heart Break Kid]

turns out apple is suing over tiger leaks

[solvs]

Hmmmm... A frequent contributor to a rumors site argues that those who actually contribute true information should be punished. Now that's too funny. ;) (Not that I don't agree with you about honoring an NDA, but why follow a rumors site unless you're looking for info that Apple doesn't want you to know?)
Not all of us come here just for rumors. But a bit hypocritical, I'll give you that. We want to know what's coming, but we don't want Apple getting hurt.

A lot of hypocrisy in the Real Harmony thread too - let Apple throw its weight around defending its position in music, yet punish Microsoft by claiming that each and every innovation from Redmond is somehow connected with bribing the Bush DOJ.
Several people had a problem with that for some reason and claim that Apple is just like M$, but a lot of people just hate Real. If iTunes were a monopoly instead of just being the most successful online store, then there might be a problem. But if you want an iPod, the easiest way to use it is with iTunes. There are other options that don't involving hacking and trying to jump on the bandwagon of a successful competitor. No one said you couldn't buy a song from Real's store and use a competitors product, or burn a CD and re-rip it. If Real really cared about freedom, they'd selling files without DRM, which would work just fine.

And we don't have a problem with Microsoft's innovations, it's when they bully, lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead. Then just release a crappy product. Kinda like Real.

Oh, and don't forget to bash Motorola - even while IBM's ineptitude is causing Apple to delay new systems, and to trickle out systems with even minor speed bumps.
Plenty of us complain about IBM, comparing them to Motorola. Who's defending IBM, yet bashing Moto? Usually we defend both, or criticize both. We hope IBM isn't a like that, but we're still pretty early in the game. If the G5 starts sucking, believe me, we'll complain.

Ridicule Microsoft for quality problems, while praising Apple for 10.3.7 (even though it was obviously rushed out to undo some of the damage done by 10.3.6). Mock Microsoft for security bugs, while Apple opens up a security hole in Apache that's simply astounding.
Plenty of people get upset with Apple when they screw something like that up (iBooks, 10.2.8, etc), mostly because we're used to getting quality, which we do pay more for. People are just more used to it from M$, so it's just expected. Apple isn't perfect, and they do make mistakes, but I know a lot more people who rarely have problems than those few who do complain when they have problems.

What about all of the posts where people are leary of updating right away, then relieved when nothing goes wrong? I usually see a bunch of them.

And lets see:
Apple - couple of security issues and buggy products here and there. Usually fixed fairly quickly. Sometimes not. Complaints of just like M$ either way.
M$ - constant security problems and years of bad software. People unhappy with feeling like they are forced to use a crappy product to run the programs they need to run. :sarcasm: Just like with iPod and iTunes! :sarcasm: Oh wait, both of those are pretty good (though iTunes can lag on a slower PC with a ton of songs and other stuff running, I'll give you that).

And, of course, ignore real news like Apple's Xsan falls behind schedule (http://news.com.com/Apples+Xsan+falls+behind+schedule/2100-1012_3-5498360.html).... :eek:
That kinda pisses me off, but what are you gonna do... whenever they try to be deadline driven (like M$) instead of quality driven, they suffer. Either they're late or they release an unfinished product. Either way, people will (and should) complain. I don't think many will complain much about the xSan because everyone is kind-of expecting it to keep being delayed. Apple probably should have waited to announce it, but I guess they wanted people to be excited and thought they'd have it ready by now. Instead, people will be pissed... and some will keep waiting. Others won't.

That, and most of us don't actually know what it does.

What an entertaining forum !! ;)
Yes it is. Zealots and trolls certainly can be fun.

What if Apple had figured out a way to play WMA protected content on the Ipod, and then Microsoft tweaked it a bit to disable Apple's "hack"? Would there be a chorus of "Good for Microsoft, it needs to protect its innovations in DRM"? Not likely

You're assuming that Apple's fixed a bug, just like I'm assuming that they deliberately blocked a competitor.

Someday the truth will come out.
That's the thing, they wouldn't have to do that. They'd just release a really cool, yet really expensive, product that everybody would want, and nobody would buy. And half of the competitors would copy them and release cheaper, yet not as good, products. M$ would do it's usual buy and bully thing, and people would eat it up even though it's not that good, with a couple of us saying there's a better product out there while no one listens.

The truth is, Real wanted to piggy back on Apple's success (with a Windows only store BTW), and Apple said, what's in it for us. They like to control the hardware and software, for better or worse, and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to use iTunes or the iPod. Music, unlike software, can be played anywhere.

What I don't understand is what difference the technical nature of the problem has on the effect.

As shipped, for quite some time Apple's Apache implementation had a huge security hole. Apple has fixed the problem, does the fact that it was a configuration change rather than a code change mean anything?
You got me on this one. If there was problem, even if it wasn't their fault, they should have fixed it earlier. If it's fixed now, good. If not, I hope they fix it.

Doesn't change the fact that Windows sucks.

It's just amusing how any story of "$COMPANY$ sues", or "$COMPANY$ issues security warning" or "$COMPANY$ blocks competitor" is interpreted differently depending on whether COMPANY is "Microsoft" or "Apple", "Motorola" or "IBM", "RIAA" or....

Just amusing to see the rationalizations, that's all.
It's simple. Apple is good because it makes good products, even if it screws up sometimes (and is an evil, faceless corporation run by a meglomaniacal, egomaniacal, perfectionist - who happens to make cool stuff). Even if their stuff is expensive. Microsoft is bad because it makes bad products, and lied and cheated and stole to get where it is, even if it sometimes does something good. And they are deadline driven vs. quality driven (see above). Plus Steve Balmer is a dancing monkey-boy (seriously, what is wrong with him?).

Motorola screwed us over for years. IBM came out with a cool product that they are struggling with. One gave up early on. One is trying, and is somewhat succeeding. Just not as well as we had hoped.

The RIAA just sucks because they rip off artists and fans, then get pissed of when people want to use their products. The caveat being, they have every right to protect their work. Artists don't have to sign, fans don't have to listen. Some people just have a problem with the way they are going about it.

As I'm sure you are well aware, the ends do not justify the means.

Face it Aiden, we're not all sheep. We like Apple's products, and are willing to defend them for tiny mistakes just as we criticize them when they screw up. That's why people like the iPod, it's a good product (and yeah, people can be sheep, and want what everybody else has, but this time it's working in our favor). Some of us can be a little enthusiastic at times, but to be fair, I think a lot of us just hate Microsoft's products, and the way they do business. Some of us are just happy we have products that generally work well, without getting in our way, nor giving us the hassles that those in the Windows world suffer (including a lot of us who have to use Windows when we aren’t using our Macs).

And while some of us will forgive Apple no matter what (which is bad) and some criticize no matter what (also bad), most of us are a little forgiving, but always watching to make sure they don’t become what they oppose. You seem like a pretty smart guy Aiden, so I think you, of all people, should be able to understand that.

Thank you, and good night.

(typing this from a crappy XP box at work, getting by with a Win2000 box at home and my trusty G3, looking forward to my new G5 coming early next year)

[maddav]

If Real really cared about freedom, they'd selling files without DRM, which would work just fine.

I'm not defending Real or anything, but i think that the RIAA demand that all music files that you can legally download must have some kind of DRM. A minor niggle in your argument i know, but a huge problem for REAL who want to profit from 'Harmony".

[dejo]

turns out apple is suing over tiger leaks

Actually, looks like there are two lawsuits. One for Asteroid and one for Tiger:

http://news.com.com/Apple+goes+to+court+to+smoke+out+product+leaker/2100-1047_3-5499814.html?tag=nefd.top

http://news.com.com/Apple+sues+over+loose+Tiger/2100-1047_3-5500034.html?tag=nefd.top

[rdowns]

And then there is the whole going after the rumor site's sources which IMHO is a serious slap against freedom of the press. I hope someone takes on Apple. Is there not legal precedent on the right to protect one's sources?

No right is absolute when it infringes on another's, i.e. Apple's NDAs. Apple has every right to go after those that violate signed agreements with them. A low volume Garageband add-on may not be a big fish but what if some new technology they were developing leaked and gave its competitors an advantage they would otherwise not have had?

[ASP272]

Wow! I can't believe they're going after people just like US! Watch out what you speculate here, Apple might think you once worked there and signed an NDA, then come after YOU! :eek:

Very doubtful. But I still stand by the fact that Apple should have just let the leak slide, therefore not letting the public know what had actually been leaked, and left everything up to speculation. Yeah, someone could leak something even bigger than Asteroid, or whatever this lawsuits about, but they could just ignore that as well, and it would just remain a RUMOR. Silly Apple. :rolleyes:

[Heart Break Kid]

Wow! I can't believe they're going after people just like US! Watch out what you speculate here, Apple might think you once worked there and signed an NDA, then come after YOU! :eek:

Very doubtful. But I still stand by the fact that Apple should have just let the leak slide, therefore not letting the public know what had actually been leaked, and left everything up to speculation. Yeah, someone could leak something even bigger than Asteroid, or whatever this lawsuits about, but they could just ignore that as well, and it would just remain a RUMOR. Silly Apple. :rolleyes:

So whats the precident for this sort of thing? Do the people end up paying millions of dollars? How is that possible if they dont have that kind of moneys?

[solvs]

I'm not defending Real or anything, but i think that the RIAA demand that all music files that you can legally download must have some kind of DRM. A minor niggle in your argument i know, but a huge problem for REAL who want to profit from 'Harmony".
There's always indies and making their own player. Frankly I'm just surprised anyone actually read my post once I saw how big it was.

So whats the precedent for this sort of thing? Do the people end up paying millions of dollars? How is that possible if they don't have that kind of moneys?
The last guy had to pretty much promise he'd never do it again. It's basically a scare tactic. If the guy signed an NDA, he could be sued, but they wouldn't get anything and they know it. I guess he could hide behind the First Amendment, but I'm sure there's a precedent for releasing a trade secret for a company you work for. He'd be better off just saying he's sorry and not doing it again.

Until he incurs the wrath of the Steve, that is.

[applekid]

turns out apple is suing over tiger leaks

Hmmmm... I think an "I told you so" to those people that kept trying to make the hollow argument that getting a copy of Tiger through illegal means was perfectly alright just won't do this time.

Oh well, I told you so anyway. I'll think of something better to say later. :D

Let the flames come to me...

[AidenShaw]

of the Steve, that is.

Forget about the Steve -- that much ego is just going to implode and self-destruct.

[FFTT]

Applenova forums are down this morning.

[solvs]

Forget about the Steve -- that much ego is just going to implode and self-destruct.
Shhh... he'll hear you. :eek:

[Heart Break Kid]

http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000369.html#more


Came across this on macsurfer.com

Interesting read