Display Price Drop

[MacRumors]

Apple lowered the prices on its line of LCD displays (http://www.apple.com/displays/) today across the board (as rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050103210104.shtml)), with the 20" model now falling below the $1000 mark. Pricing is as follows:

* $999 - 20" Cinema, 1680 x 1050 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $1799 - 23" Cinema HD, 1920 x 1200 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $2999 - 30" Cinema HD, 2560 x 1600 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

[Over Achiever]

20" for $999 ... not bad =)

EDIT: I always thought the 30" was $2999, was I wrong? And looking at my educational discount I can get the 20" for $899 with free shipping ^_^

[carlos700]

Maybe I'll get one now. Although it's still a thousand bucks :confused:

[timnosenzo]

it's about time! would still be nice to see a 17" though... :cool:

[mrzippy]

I did post this in the rumour of the price drop thread also, but there are other major price changes in the UK store.

List below are reductions on bottom models as example:

iMac G5 1.6 GHz - £919 to £899
iBook G4 12" - £799 to £699
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - £1099 to £999
PowerBook 12" combo - £1149 to £1099

Don't know if US store is the same, or are they reflecting the current exchange rate $ /£

Also I agree with above, would be nice to see at 17" display.

[Deefuzz]

good news! I might have to swing me a 23 incher sometime soon

[lem0nayde]

40" of screen realestate for $2K - not bad. I wish I had the money to blow on it.

[Mudbug]

I did post this in the rumour of the price drop thread also, but there are other major price changes in the UK store.

List below are reductions on bottom models as example:

iMac G5 1.6 GHz - £919 to £899
iBook G4 12" - £799 to £699
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - £1099 to £999
PowerBook 12" combo - £1149 to £1099

Don't know if US store is the same, or are they reflecting the current exchange rate $ /£

Also I agree with above, would be nice to see at 17" display.

I don't see the same changes here in the US store. - but good catch, though

[lalcan]

So a 17 " would cost what, like $699 ? it would be too expensive for the miniMac, i'd rather take a 15 " at $499...

My two cents! :-)

[Zaty]

I don't see the same changes here in the US store. - but good catch, though

Hardware prices were lowered across Europe, because of the weaker US Dollar. No drops on iPods, though.

[Little Endian]

Looks like I'm getting a new 20 inch Cinema Display!!!! Thanks Apple I was almost going to get a Formac or Dell LCD. With my EDU discount I can get one for $899 and paying a $100-$200 premium for Apple is now justifiable instead of a $500 one.

[mrzippy]

This could have been a price shuffle so they can announce a cheap 17" to go with the rumoured headless Mac at MacWorld next week.

Still wary of Apple displays at the moment with so many colour problems reported still.

[pbook15]

It looks like other products got a price drop in Canada. I just checked out the powerbooks and mine which was $2900 with a student discount in August is now $2710 with the discount.

[denm316]

hopefully we will see a 17 inch one as well. And maybe ever a 15 inch for the"possible" headless iMac.

I just hope the headless iMac with have good resolution on a widescreen tv, if it will be able to be used as a "media center"

[patseguin]

I wonder if they have fixed all of the problems with the 23" displays. Another 20" may not be such a bad idea...

[wozzlewoozle]

Originally Posted by mrzippy
I did post this in the rumour of the price drop thread also, but there are other major price changes in the UK store.
List below are reductions on bottom models as example:

iMac G5 1.6 GHz - £919 to £899
iBook G4 12" - £799 to £699
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - £1099 to £999
PowerBook 12" combo - £1149 to £1099

Don't know if US store is the same, or are they reflecting the current exchange rate $ /£

Also I agree with above, would be nice to see at 17" display.


I believe that you are correct about apple finally coming out with more upto date currency conversions, I notice that prices on all macs (not ipods) are now lower at the online apple store canada.

[loneAzdgari]

Yep, we're looking at an 8%-9% drop on average for nearly every mac in every store except the US one. Some items have lowered even further for example the iSight is now £99, previously priced at £119.

[ipacmm]

Good prices....too bad I already have the 23"

[sushi]

So a 17 " would cost what, like $699 ? it would be too expensive for the miniMac, i'd rather take a 15 " at $499...

My two cents! :-)
Good LCD displays are just under $300 here (Japan).

Can get a 17 for around $400.

Sushi

[srobert]

As for the cheaper displays and the rumored Sub $500 iMac, I don't think there is any direct connection. A sub $500 iMac would be targetted at custommer demographic that will probably hook it up to a display they already own. Heck! I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled as an option.

[Dippo]

Anyone remember the original prices so we can see "how much" the prices dropped? (US prices)

Nevermind:
Google Cache of Apple Store Displays (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:qmVZ0OuFTFUJ:store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore%3Ffamily%3DAppleDisplays=en)

[rickmac2005]

This might lend some weight to the headless imac rumor. I couldn't see how it would fit into the pricing structure before. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 15.4" and 17" widescreen DVI displays launched next week!

[Sophipod]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

[macridah]

recently surfaced rumors were on the spot. At this pace, iWorks and headless macs are going to be reality.

[rock6079]

this is making me reconsider whether to get an imac now or a PM. can u have two monitors with the imac or not with that graphics card ?

[keysersoze]

I wonder how much a refurb 20"er will cost now?

They went for 1099 at the old price point... now they may go for $799?

That would be exciting. I love refurbs.

[kenaustus]

I wonder if they have fixed all of the problems with the 23" displays. Another 20" may not be such a bad idea...

I've had a 23" since they were introduced (hook it to my PB at work) and there has been no problem with it - it's just glorious.

[Yvan256]

I believe that you are correct about apple finally coming out with more upto date currency conversions, I notice that prices on all macs (not ipods) are now lower at the online apple store canada.

From memory, the eMacs are 50$CAN lower, iPod mini is 20$CAN lower, iPod 20GB is 30$CAN lower, iPod Photo 60GB is 50$CAN lower, iBook 12" is 50$CAN lower too...

Seems to me like almost everything got a price drop/exchange rate fix.

Edit: oh yeah, the iPod price drops are because they had to drop that stupid extra tax for the CIRPA (finally. wait a minute, can I get a refund on mine?)

[Yvan256]

As for the cheaper displays and the rumored Sub $500 iMac, I don't think there is any direct connection. A sub $500 iMac would be targetted at custommer demographic that will probably hook it up to a display they already own. Heck! I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled as an option.

Keyboard and mice optionnal? Bring it on! Especially at Apple's prices:
- Keyboard: 40$CAN
- Mouse: 40$CAN

Hum, is it only me, or I remember both of these selling for 80$CAN each?!

If they sell them at 40$CAN separately, I can't imagine Apple putting those optionnal (unless it's only for BTO, which would be nice to lower the price even further... if not, there's eBay) ;-)

[iJoe]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:


Yes. If they say no, create a scene. If that doesn't work, return it for a full refund. Then by a new one.

[nagromme]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

Yes, I think so--I think Apple has price protection for a certain time. So call fast, and good luck :)

[Xtremehkr]

The 20 and 23" are still a little on the high side comparatively. The are exceedingly well designed though. Another $200 off of each would have made them really competitive.

[iJoe]

AirPort Express, Extreme and the card have all been reduced, along with the BT Keyboard and Mouse.

Wow.

[aricher]

Methinks my office will be buying 4-6 20" displays - just put it in the budget for 1st quarter!

[Thresher]

The 20 and 23" are still a little on the high side comparatively. The are exceedingly well designed though. Another $200 off of each would have made them really competitive.


I agree. With coupons, I was able to get the new Dell 2005FPW for right at $600 delivered. I think their starting price is $799. It has the same specs as the Apple monitor, it's just not packaged nearly as attractively, but for $400, I was willing to overlook that.

There is only one brand of Powermac, but many different brands of monitors. I'm just not willing to pay extra because the frame is a little nicer. Price that puppy at $750-850 and they won't be able to keep them on the shelves.

[AmigoMac]

awesome, it makes me think about the 20" ...ummm! gotta hide my credit card till next week! MWSF will be :cool:

[Yvan256]

Nobody noticed "The New Dual 2.3GHz Xserve G5" and "Xsan. Now shipping."?

Didn't see that yesterday...

Edit: oups, previous thread... didn't see that either. :D

---

Man oh man... Will we really see the iPod micro and "Mac mini" in a few days?

With my weird luck, here's what's going to happen: I've been waiting for years for a low-cost Apple desktop, but I'm sure I'll find a high-paying job at the last second and end up buying the top PowerMac instead. :rolleyes:

Stupid four-leaf clover.

[billystlyes]

don't get me wrong they are great monitors but still priced about 200 dollars to high!

[Object-X]

this is making me reconsider whether to get an imac now or a PM. can u have two monitors with the imac or not with that graphics card ?

No. There is no video out.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Good news, though I am happy that i got the Dell 2001FP (was to have been the 2005FPW). My final price after other after sale coupons and credits was just $475 for the 2001FP. And in the end I think I like the "taller" pixel count over the "wider" pixel count.

[iJoe]

No. There is no video out.

Yes there is.

[keysersoze]

Yes there is.

Yes. There's a mini-vga port.

[IndyGopher]

No. There is no video out.
*SIGH* yes, there is. Has been since the G4 iMac (Mini-VGA) and the later G3 iMacs (VGA)

The video out is mirrored (not spanned) but there are ways around that. Google it. Note that the video out requires an adapter to standard VGA, and you would then need yet another adapter to connect the DVI Apple monitor. Whether it is worth going through all that is another question entirely. Some third party mini-VGA to DVI adapters might exist, but I was unable to locate any in my exceedingly brief search.

[Zaty]

AirPort Express, Extreme and the card have all been reduced, along with the BT Keyboard and Mouse.

Wow.

Standard (non-wireless) mouse and keyboard were reduced by 50%. Perhaps future iMac and PM revision will come with BT mice and keyboards.

[YoYoMac]

Yep, we're looking at an 8%-9% drop on average for nearly every mac in every store except the US one. Some items have lowered even further for example the iSight is now £99, previously priced at £119.

No price drop in China. I plan on buying an iMac after MSWF, but I'm having to pay an extra 23% on the 20". I really hope they drop the price of the iMac in China soon.

[sushi]

No. There is no video out.
That is incorrect.

You can have an external monitor connected to the iMac G5.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Sushi

[~Shard~]

hopefully we will see a 17 inch one as well. And maybe ever a 15 inch for the"possible" headless iMac.

I just hope the headless iMac with have good resolution on a widescreen tv, if it will be able to be used as a "media center"

I think 15" displays are pretty much dead now. I even think it's doubtful Apple will release a new 17" - for what purpose? To comlpiement the headless iMac? Why would people pay $499 for a Mac and then another $499 or whatever for the display? I don't see it happeneing. The logical time to release a new 17" would have been along with these price drops.

[debroglie]

As others have pointed out, the prices of the pro keyboard and mouse have also dropped significantly. Could this be a way to clear the way for a revision of keyboards and mice? Maybe something to better match the Pro line?

[MacNeXT]

40" of screen realestate for $2K - not bad. I wish I had the money to blow on it.

Ofcourse, it's twice the surface (amount of pixels), not twice the diameter. "40 inch of screen realestate" would amount to 4 20" displays.

[Windowlicker]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see 15.4" and 17" widescreen DVI displays launched next week!

Yes, please. What would the 15.4" cost?? $499? $599 for the 17". Hmm that would be:

- a headledd imac á $500 + 15" á $499 = $999. That's a bit more than an emac now so it might be possible.

Dunno if they wanna sell 15" displays though. 15" is pretty small for a widescreen display. I guess we'll see in 7 days.

Now, will we get to see a quicktime live stream or do we have to watch it afterwards??!

[Zaty]

I think 15" displays are pretty much dead now. I even think it's doubtful Apple will release a new 17" - for what purpose? To comlpiement the headless iMac? Why would people pay $499 for a Mac and then another $499 or whatever for the display? I don't see it happeneing. The logical time to release a new 17" would have been along with these price drops.

Right, it's been said before, the idea behind the headless (e/i)Mac concept is to offer a cheap Mac sans monitor. Most potential switcher already have monitors, so their not willing to pay for another CRT/LCD they don't need. If someone wants a Mac with a Monitor, there's still eMacs and iMacs. After all, the eMac is only $799.

[Hlau]

oh man. I just got the 20" a couple of months ago.

[Spades]

40" of screen realestate for $2K - not bad. I wish I had the money to blow on it.

Not quite. Since that's a measure of the diagonal of the screen, putting two 20" together won't give you 40". It would take four 20" displays to make 40" of screen real estate. With a 16:10 aspect ratio, two 20" displays makes it about 35.5" when put side by side, and 27.2" when placed one above the other.

Oh, sorry. Was I being too pedantic? ;)

[wPod]

great fro the monitors!!!! a 20" might JUST be in my price range. . . .but i want to wait for MWSF to see if a small/cheap mac comes out, I would totally buy one just so i can have a second mac. also good catch on the wirelss keyboards. . . the price is a bit nicer now!! though i dont know what the old prices were on the airport express and extreme as mentioned, i dont think they dropped in price (or maybe i am getting edu discount and normal prices confused)

[ObsidianIce]

it's called price protection...i would check their sales and refund policy....


I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

[r_howie]

List below are reductions on bottom models as example:

iMac G5 1.6 GHz - £919 to £899
iBook G4 12" - £799 to £699
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - £1099 to £999
PowerBook 12" combo - £1149 to £1099


Here are our price drops thanks to the weak US$, as someone mentioned:
iMac G5 1.6 GHz - €1399 to €1299
iBook G4 12" - €1089 to €999
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - €1679 to €1449
PowerBook 12" combo - €1798 to €1639
PowerBook 12" SD - €2038 to €1839.

[macguyincali]

Not quite. Since that's a measure of the diagonal of the screen, putting two 20" together won't give you 40". It would take four 20" displays to make 40" of screen real estate. With a 16:10 aspect ratio, two 20" displays makes it about 35.5" when put side by side, and 27.2" when placed one above the other.

Oh, sorry. Was I being too pedantic? ;)

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?

[sparkleytone]

I agree. With coupons, I was able to get the new Dell 2005FPW for right at $600 delivered. I think their starting price is $799. It has the same specs as the Apple monitor, it's just not packaged nearly as attractively, but for $400, I was willing to overlook that.

There is only one brand of Powermac, but many different brands of monitors. I'm just not willing to pay extra because the frame is a little nicer. Price that puppy at $750-850 and they won't be able to keep them on the shelves.

Does it have 2 USB2 and 2 Firewire ports? Does it come with an Apple-calibrated color profile? Is it aluminum? :-)

[Mord]

the pricing is pretty sweet in the uk, i may get one, once i have £700, or a new ibook.

[eazyway]

XSan, XServe updates the LCD price drops are all GREAT NEWS. Not because they are that fabulous but because the news came out 1 week prior to Mac World. IF the news at MacWorld had been skimpy these items would have been announced by Jobs next week and not a week early. This lends credence to much better news coming out at macWorld on Tuesday Jan 11.

[iAlan]

we will see a predominately software focused MWSF 05 (after the babyMac, babyPod and baby 15" 17" monitors)?

[Fender]

Good, Powerbook prices dropped $200 (in Canada) across the board.

[maya]

From memory, the eMacs are 50$CAN lower, iPod mini is 20$CAN lower, iPod 20GB is 30$CAN lower, iPod Photo 60GB is 50$CAN lower, iBook 12" is 50$CAN lower too...

Seems to me like almost everything got a price drop/exchange rate fix.

Edit: oh yeah, the iPod price drops are because they had to drop that stupid extra tax for the CIRPA (finally. wait a minute, can I get a refund on mine?)


I don't see any -$50 CAD on the Apple Canada store for the 12"iBooks. :confused:

[1macker1]

They AirPort Express is still 129.
AirPort Express, Extreme and the card have all been reduced, along with the BT Keyboard and Mouse.

Wow.

[maya]

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?

If you do not want HD then go with the 20" ACD. :)

[eazyway]

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?

The 20" has dimensions that are 2/3 of the 30" screen or 4/9 the total viewing area.(2/3 x 2/3) Thus Two 20's will give you 8/9 of the total viewing area. (add them up) So then 1 30" is 11% more viewing area than two 20" .
There are of course still resolution issues to be thought about which can alter this picture.

[eazyway]

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?

The view area ratio for a 20 vs 23 " is 400/529 Thus two twenties it would be 800/529. (a lot more)

[iBoris]

Damn!

Great news, but this (combined with the new entry level PowerMac) really muddies the water.

I am even more confused as to whether to get the top end iMac or the entry level PowerMac with Cinema Display?

Any suggestions - oh gonna use it for web and graphic design with some minor 3d work (Blender)

[xsnightclub]

Is it just me or is this the first time in recent history that Apple has released major product revisions and price reductions just before a Jobs Keynote.
IMO Steve is making room for what could be an amazing 1.5 hour keynote.
Can't Wait!

[DPazdanISU]

this is for the guy that was looking for a way to have an extended desktop on an ibook, imac, emac, etc: http://macparts.de/ibook/

[Moof1904]

I just bought a 30" last week, from MacZone. I understand that Apple may have a price guarantee policy, but is there any chance of some kind of adjustment if I bought it from MacZone, do y'all think?

[TDM21]

Going back to page 1:
If you want to know the exchange rate for countries then head over to a site called XE.com (http://www.xe.com). They have exchange rates for every major currency and a few discontinued currencies.

[Chupa Chupa]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

Yes. I believe Apple offers a 10 day price protection again it's own price drops. Just call 'em up if you bought online or go to the Apple retail store with your rec't.

[SiliconAddict]

20" for $999 ... not bad =)



Until you compair it to: A 20.1" Dell Ultrasharp for $674 (http://tinyurl.com/6999d)

At which point it starts looking bad or at least average. Originally when I was shopping around for a LCD screen I thought Apple's hardware was leet when in actuality its pretty much typical hardware and in some cases below typical in the case of that Dell model. Dell's got a faster response time and a better contrast ratio. But if you are willing to spend $325 more simply for design. More power too ya. Your money - your choice.

Personally after doing the research I'm sticking with a boring 20" CRT for another year. Even $675 is too spendy for a monitor. Maybe by summer. :cool:

[eazyway]

Damn!

Great news, but this (combined with the new entry level PowerMac) really muddies the water.

I am even more confused as to whether to get the top end iMac or the entry level PowerMac with Cinema Display?

Any suggestions - oh gonna use it for web and graphic design with some minor 3d work (Blender)

I would wait until after the after the keynote before I made any decisions.

[aldo]

*SIGH* yes, there is. Has been since the G4 iMac (Mini-VGA) and the later G3 iMacs (VGA)

The video out is mirrored (not spanned) but there are ways around that. Google it. Note that the video out requires an adapter to standard VGA, and you would then need yet another adapter to connect the DVI Apple monitor. Whether it is worth going through all that is another question entirely. Some third party mini-VGA to DVI adapters might exist, but I was unable to locate any in my exceedingly brief search.

The DVI cable actually carries both an analog and digital signal. You can just pick up an adaptor that 'converts' VGA to DVI for very cheap. I know all my graphics cards that I have bought for PCs over the years that have both a VGA and a DVI port have came with an adaptor.

I still think Apple should of put a VGA port on the monitor, considering it would of increased it's usefulness dramatically.

[dnnx]

i Wish they would release a 17" at MWSF, would be nice to complement the minime. I just love the one on my powerbook

[wordmunger]

Until you compair it to: A 20.1" Dell Ultrasharp for $674 (http://tinyurl.com/6999d)

At which point it starts looking bad. Originally when I was shopping around for a LCD screen I thought Apple's hardware was leet when in actuality its pretty much typical hardware and in some cases below typical in the case of that Dell model. Dell's got a faster response time and a better contrast ratio. But if you are willing to spend $325 more simply for design. More power too ya. Your money - your choice.

Personally after doing the research I'm sticking with a boring 20" CRT for another year. Even $675 is too spendy for a monitor. Maybe by summer. :cool:

You've been able to get 3rd party monitors cheaper since the beginning of time. However, this is about as close as Apple has been to the competition pricewise in a long time. As you said, your choice.

[wesley.bowman]

I did post this in the rumour of the price drop thread also, but there are other major price changes in the UK store.

List below are reductions on bottom models as example:

iMac G5 1.6 GHz - £919 to £899
iBook G4 12" - £799 to £699
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz single - £1099 to £999
PowerBook 12" combo - £1149 to £1099

Don't know if US store is the same, or are they reflecting the current exchange rate $ /£

Also I agree with above, would be nice to see at 17" display.

The AirportExpress is also lower now at £88.99 from £99 (I think). I placed a 17" iMac BTO order on Dec. 29 and received an e-mail today stating that I will get a refund to reflect the price difference. The total reduction for the BTO iMac and AirportExpress was £70.02. Thanks Apple!

[nylon]

Now all they need to do is increase the contrast ratio on these monitors. I feel they are still too expensive given their technical specifications. You can get monitors from Samung which boast much higher display quality for much less. The only saving grace for the Apple monitors is their enclosure in built in firewire ports.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Apple design philosophy. However, I feel that they don't seem to offer the best technical quality in all their products.

[syntrophy]

The AirportExpress is also lower now at £88.99 from £99 (I think). I placed a 17" iMac BTO order on Dec. 29 and received an e-mail today stating that I will get a refund to reflect the price difference. The total reduction for the BTO iMac and AirportExpress was £70.02. Thanks Apple!

not only in uk, in singapore the dual 2.5 g5 also drop from S$5988 to S$5588, thats about US$180 drop in price.

[Rod Rod]

The DVI cable actually carries both an analog and digital signal. You can just pick up an adaptor that 'converts' VGA to DVI for very cheap. I know all my graphics cards that I have bought for PCs over the years that have both a VGA and a DVI port have came with an adaptor.

I still think Apple should of put a VGA port on the monitor, considering it would of increased it's usefulness dramatically.

This is mistaken. There is no cheap adapter to convert a VGA signal to DVI, unless you consider $300 to be cheap (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310).

You can go from DVI-I to VGA, such as your experience with PC graphics cards (and incidentally, such is the case with all Power Mac G5s and late model Power Mac G4s). However, you cannot go from VGA to DVI-D. Apple's LCDs require a DVI-D signal.

DVI-I carries both analog and digital. DVI-A is analog. DVI-D is digital. There is no cheap and easy way to go from VGA (analog) to DVI-D.

[shompa]

Now all they need to do is increase the contrast ratio on these monitors. I feel they are still too expensive given their technical specifications. You can get monitors from Samung which boast much higher display quality for much less. The only saving grace for the Apple monitors is their enclosure in built in firewire ports.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Apple design philosophy. However, I feel that they don't seem to offer the best technical quality in all their products.


Or Apple could do the same as Samsung:
Just print a higher contrast number.

Always take the specs with a grain of salt. See it for real instead.

[ipodmann]

Apple lowered the prices on its line of LCD displays (http://www.apple.com/displays/) today across the board (as rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050103210104.shtml)), with the 20" model now falling below the $1000 mark. Pricing is as follows:

* $999 - 20" Cinema, 1680 x 1050 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $1799 - 23" Cinema HD, 1920 x 1200 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $2999 - 30" Cinema HD, 2560 x 1600 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

This is great news. It is a sign that Apple has overpriced these cools screens from the beginning. The CompuUSA Apple rep at my local store did confirm a couple nights ago that they were selling very few screens. Now Steve needs to drop the prices on those 2.5 machines so I get a new monitor and computer at the same time.

[Dahl]

Anyone remember the original prices so we can see "how much" the prices dropped? (US prices)

Nevermind:
Google Cache of Apple Store Displays (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:qmVZ0OuFTFUJ:store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore%3Ffamily%3DAppleDisplays=en)

I just love to see when price drops appear out of nowhere (at least for me this time around). Displays are always so bloody expensive and it's really nice to see them drop more than $100 for once.

[timmyOtool]

Price drops are always welcomed! And this close to the keynote bodes well.

[Fredstar]

This is mistaken. There is no cheap adapter to convert a VGA signal to DVI, unless you consider $300 to be cheap (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310).

You can go from DVI-I to VGA, such as your experience with PC graphics cards (and incidentally, such is the case with all Power Mac G5s and late model Power Mac G4s). However, you cannot go from VGA to DVI-D. Apple's LCDs require a DVI-D signal.

DVI-I carries both analog and digital. DVI-A is analog. DVI-D is digital. There is no cheap and easy way to go from VGA (analog) to DVI-D.

I think you can just get a dvi to vga from http://www.lindy.com/uk/productfolder/04/41223/index.php that will just carry the analogue vga signal through to the vga pins in the dvi, i don't think you will be able to use the on board firewire/usb's on the monitor but i think it will work because the dvi input on the 20" is both Analogue and digital...otherwise they would quote the dvi port as 'dvi-d'
Anyone like to comment/has experience using the above?
In the future i may actually buy this to accompany my 20" imac G5 as at £634 (education) it is now very much more affordable and screen spanning is incredible.

also wouldn't it make more sense to drop them before xmas?!?!

[Thresher]

Does it have 2 USB2 and 2 Firewire ports? Does it come with an Apple-calibrated color profile? Is it aluminum? :-)

Nope. But it does come with DVI, VGA, S-Video, composite, Picture in Picture, 4 USB 2.0 inputs, and a connector for a soundbar for $674.10 (regular price is now $749).

For $325 less, I'm willing to live without a little aluminum and I can calibrate it myself.

Again, as I mentioned, the situation with monitors is that Apple isn't the only player and needs to be more price competitive. With the aluminum enclosure and Apple's service, I think they can charge a bit more for their monitors, but not $325.

[xsnightclub]

I think it is great that Apple is pricing the 20" at $999.
They are breaking the psychological price barrier,
this will get more people to be interested in the whole line and maybe justify moving up to more expensive model.

There is a lot to be said about psychological barriers, which is why there is a need for a sub $500 machine. It gets people interested in the base product, then they can justify graduating up (spending more money) the line by more/better features/size. Excellent move Apple.

[xsnightclub]

Nope. But it does come with DVI, VGA, S-Video, composite, Picture in Picture, 4 USB 2.0 inputs, and a connector for a soundbar for $674.10 (regular price is now $749).

For $325 less, I'm willing to live with a little aluminum and I can calibrate it myself.

Again, as I mentioned, the situation with monitors is that Apple isn't the only player and needs to be more price competitive. With the aluminum enclosure and Apple's service, I think they can charge a bit more for their monitors, but not $325.

That is GREAT, 4, count them FOUR USB2.0 (when the panel goes bad I can use it a USB hub) , Picture in Picture WOW! and S-Video now i can connect my VCR right to the monitor!

Typical of Dull.
(What there is no coax input. I bet Gateway makes one with coax.)

[Thresher]

That is GREAT, 4, count them FOUR USB2.0 (when the panel goes bad I can use it a USB hub) , Picture in Picture WOW! and S-Video now i can connect my VCR right to the monitor!

Typical of Dull.

Why would you slam it for having features that Apple lacks? Just because Apple didn't do it first doesn't make it lame. If that's the case, then adding USB and Firewire to the Cinema Display is likewise lame. And yeah, being able to hook my cable box right up to my monitor is pretty sweet, especially when you go PIP.

I don't understand the attitude, a good feature is a good feature whether or not Apple invented it.

[xsnightclub]

Why would you slam it for having features that Apple lacks? Just because Apple didn't do it first doesn't make it lame. If that's the case, then adding USB and Firewire to the Cinema Display is likewise lame. And yeah, being able to hook my cable box right up to my monitor is pretty sweet, especially when you go PIP.

I don't understand the attitude, a good feature is a good feature whether or not Apple invented it.

It is tongue in cheek, sorry if you took it as attitude.
The Apple monitors are designed for professional use first. The features you point out are great for people who think it would be neat to watch cable on their desktop (via pip), I agree Apple should come out with a line of Consumer friendly monitors with such features you describe. But do not attach an S-Video PIP to a pro-monitor.

Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What is a good feature to you may be useless to another. Maybe design asthetics and panel quality are of more importance to others. Hence the need for differences in brands, otherwise we would all be getting a Dell Dude. (Take that advertising tag line as who Dell is marketing directly to, Dude.)

[Dont Hurt Me]

Consumer is king and votes with the wallet. Apples monitors have been way way overpriced for a long time and the 17" from the cube days is a joke. poor specs and hundreds more then better screens. Maybe our voting is getting through to the high society types that run Apple. Next thing you know they will introduce a headless imac that people can afford and a monitor that isnt priced out of this galaxy.

[xsnightclub]

Consumer is king and votes with the wallet. Apples monitors have been way way overpriced for a long time and the 17" from the cube days is a joke. poor specs and hundreds more then better screens. Maybe our voting is getting through to the high society types that run Apple. Next thing you know they will introduce a headless imac that people can afford and a monitor that isnt priced out of this galaxy.

Interesting, especially when you take into account that Wal-Mart is the worlds largest retailer and has recently released their own brand of flat screen TVs, the iLo brand. Keep in mind that the consumer, however misinformed, has made Wal-Mart what it is today. And the consumer most often responds best to mass-market advertising. So if something low-priced and mass-advertised it must be good, I better go buy one now. (I hope it has Intel Inside)

[AmnesiacOpera]

It is tongue in cheek, sorry if you took it as attitude.
The Apple monitors are designed for professional use first. The features you point out are great for people who think it would be neat to watch cable on their desktop (via pip), I agree Apple should come out with a line of Consumer friendly monitors with such features you describe. But do not attach an S-Video PIP to a pro-monitor.

As a professional video editor, I have to say I would very much like a PIP option on the Cinema Displays. I could easily eliminate at least 2 preview monitors in my editing suite if this was an added feature.

[rhpenguin]

and S-Video now i can connect my VCR right to the monitor!

That feature is whats selling me on the Dell display vs. the Apple unit. And theyre both pro displays based solely on specs, just the Dell display gives me the ability to hook my satellite receievers and xbox up to it too :)

Just because its aimed at pro users doesnt mean i cant have a little fun with it too :P

[mpw]

I believe that you are correct about apple finally coming out with more upto date currency conversions, I notice that prices on all macs (not ipods) are now lower at the online apple store canada.

Once you take into account import duty and taxes the 20" display is actually cheaper in the UK than in the US!

[xsnightclub]

As a professional video editor, I have to say I would very much like a PIP option on the Cinema Displays. I could easily eliminate at least 2 preview monitors in my editing suite if this was an added feature.

That set up sounds like it might work great for your needs. But for our uses the screen size is important, and we do not want any of the real-estate taking away from the primary view window.

[loneAzdgari]

No price drop in China. I plan on buying an iMac after MSWF, but I'm having to pay an extra 23% on the 20". I really hope they drop the price of the iMac in China soon.

I assumed it was worldwide after noticing all european stores and canada had lowered prices. I wasn't sure about other currencies and the previous prices... Thanks for the clarification.

[rickmac2005]

I've noticed a few people mention contrast ratio. These are only useful for looking amongst a company's range. Different companies use different ways 0f measuring this so one companies 4000:1 might be another's 1000:1. The only way to truly compare monitors is side by side with your eyes. And in my opinion Apple are easily amongst the best!

[AmnesiacOpera]

That set up sounds like it might work great for your needs. But for our uses the screen size is important, and we do not want any of the real-estate taking away from the primary view window.

But that's just it. Just because the feature is included doesn't mean you have to utilize it. As you can see by many posts, there are people who would use the feature. But there is no downside for you, it's just a feature you wouldn't use. I agree that adding too many features would just be "clutter", but currently the only advantages of the Apple display are the aluminum case and firewire ports, while it continues to have lower specs and usability than significantly lower priced monitors.

[xsnightclub]

Now all they need to do is increase the contrast ratio on these monitors. I feel they are still too expensive given their technical specifications. You can get monitors from Samung which boast much higher display quality for much less. The only saving grace for the Apple monitors is their enclosure in built in firewire ports.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Apple design philosophy. However, I feel that they don't seem to offer the best technical quality in all their products.

According to Mark Pickard, Toshiba's vice president of product marketing, any contrast ratio greater than 400:1 is practically immeasurable. "It stops being relevant after 400:1," he said.

[chevyorange]

The view area ratio for a 20 vs 23 " is 400/529 Thus two twenties it would be 800/529. (a lot more)

Again, though, the 23" is an HD display, AFAIK the 20" is not.

Adam

[julzmon]

I have read that the quality of the Dell monitor is really poor. It also stated if you were going to use it for graphics or color not to even bother.
So yes I do wish there was a PIP in the Apples monitor so I could watch some tv while working. But I would rather have a monitor that will display things correctly.

Nope. But it does come with DVI, VGA, S-Video, composite, Picture in Picture, 4 USB 2.0 inputs, and a connector for a soundbar for $674.10 (regular price is now $749).

For $325 less, I'm willing to live without a little aluminum and I can calibrate it myself.

Again, as I mentioned, the situation with monitors is that Apple isn't the only player and needs to be more price competitive. With the aluminum enclosure and Apple's service, I think they can charge a bit more for their monitors, but not $325.

[Rod Rod]

I think you can just get a dvi to vga from http://www.lindy.com/uk/productfolder/04/41223/index.php that will just carry the analogue vga signal through to the vga pins in the dvi, i don't think you will be able to use the on board firewire/usb's on the monitor but i think it will work because the dvi input on the 20" is both Analogue and digital...otherwise they would quote the dvi port as 'dvi-d'
Anyone like to comment/has experience using the above?


I have an analog VGA to DVI-A (analog DVI) cable. It works great for connecting to my IBM P260 21" CRT.

I know it's confusing that Apple doesn't specify DVI-D in the tech specs web page, and DVI-D isn't specified in the PDF entitled "Display Technology Overview." That's just Apple trying to keep things simple.

The Apple Cinema Display cannot take an analog signal. That's why Apple boasts about the pure digital signal.

You're free to attempt the connections you propose, but it won't work.

Again, though, the 23" is an HD display, AFAIK the 20" is not.

Adam

The 23" display is HD for 1080i/1080p. However, the 20" can handle 720p HD just fine. Even the 17" Apple Studio Display LCD can handle 720p HD natively. Apple marketing is super effective in drilling into people's minds that only the 23" and 30" can handle HD. That's half true.

[xsnightclub]

But that's just it. Just because the feature is included doesn't mean you have to utilize it. As you can see by many posts, there are people who would use the feature. But there is no downside for you, it's just a feature you wouldn't use. I agree that adding too many features would just be "clutter", but currently the only advantages of the Apple display are the aluminum case and firewire ports, while it continues to have lower specs and usability than significantly lower priced monitors.

Please note that Dells tech-specs convenienlty leave out pixel size. Which is why the Apple displays look superior when viewed in person, and subsequently cost more.

(I sure hope Wal-Mart starts selling their iLo flat sreen televisions as monitors. They may have worse picture quality, but they will be even cheaper then Dell and have more features. Awesome!)

[julzmon]

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?

I'm in the same predicament. I like having a 2 monitor set up. But when working with apps like DreamWeaver and Flash having that properties window at the bottom and main window with source and design views open. The 20" seems to not have enough height and kinda squashes everything down. But the 23" has enough room to feel comfortable. But then the 23" is so much more expensive! And then I figure if I get the 23 and buy a G5 later on this year... maybe the 23" will come further down in price and I could have 2 set up?
I'm having a really hard time to decide what to get.

Any opinions?

[AmnesiacOpera]

I have read that the quality of the Dell monitor is really poor. It also stated if you were going to use it for graphics or color not to even bother.
So yes I do wish there was a PIP in the Apples monitor so I could watch some tv while working. But I would rather have a monitor that will display things correctly.

Where did you read that the quality of the DELL UltraSharp 2005FPW is poor? While I agree that the case design isn't exactly wonderful, I would very much disagree on the quality of the panel itself. While I haven't used it extensively, I have used it enough to say that image quality is at least on par with Apple's display, if not better. And I have not read anywhere of people having any problems with the monitor whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly fond of Dell, but I am also not fond of paying $300+ for an inferior product...

[xsnightclub]

Where did you read that the quality of the DELL UltraSharp 2005FPW is poor? While I agree that the case design isn't exactly wonderful, I would very much disagree on the quality of the panel itself. While I haven't used it extensively, I have used it enough to say that image quality is at least on par with Apple's display, if not better. And I have not read anywhere of people having any problems with the monitor whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly fond of Dell, but I am also not fond of paying $300+ for an inferior product...

Bigger Pixels make for a less sharp image.
Dot Pitch/Pixel Pitch: This is the distance between two dots of the same colour.

[julzmon]

Where did you read that the quality of the DELL UltraSharp 2005FPW is poor? While I agree that the case design isn't exactly wonderful, I would very much disagree on the quality of the panel itself. While I haven't used it extensively, I have used it enough to say that image quality is at least on par with Apple's display, if not better. And I have not read anywhere of people having any problems with the monitor whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly fond of Dell, but I am also not fond of paying $300+ for an inferior product...

I can't remember exactly where I've read it. I've been reading a ton of things lately. I'm in the market to get a new monitor. I think I did read though that dell and apple use the same lcd display?
Not sure though. I know manufacturers can use the same display but the picture quality could vary.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Where did you read that the quality of the DELL UltraSharp 2005FPW is poor? While I agree that the case design isn't exactly wonderful, I would very much disagree on the quality of the panel itself. While I haven't used it extensively, I have used it enough to say that image quality is at least on par with Apple's display, if not better. And I have not read anywhere of people having any problems with the monitor whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly fond of Dell, but I am also not fond of paying $300+ for an inferior product...

So far I have been happy with my 2001FP from Dell (other than their support system). As mentioned before, I really like a bit more "height" than "width" of the wide screen now that I have the 2001FP. Though wide screen has a cool factor.

What would have pushed me over to the 2005FPW would be for Apple to support the pivoting screen.

[Lugonn]

I just hope the price changes don't translate to lower quality. :(

Now waiting for the MWSF announcements. :eek:

[Chip NoVaMac]

I can't remember exactly where I've read it. I've been reading a ton of things lately. I'm in the market to get a new monitor. I think I did read though that dell and apple use the same lcd display?
Not sure though. I know manufacturers can use the same display but the picture quality could vary.

There was a post here that was sort of negative about the 2005FPW. Though there are many other reviews that put it as a good player.

The main advantage to the Apple Displays is that they are SWOP certified.

[mrichmon]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

According to the online Apple Store policy you should be able to get a refund. I'm not sure if the physical Apple Store policy is the same.

"If Apple reduces the price on any product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you can request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment."
Quoted from http://www.apple.com/support/store/postpurchase.html.

[k28]

Australian Store price also drop including iMac G5 all model, others system im not sure, anyone can tell?.

[Fredstar]

I have an analog VGA to DVI-A (analog DVI) cable. It works great for connecting to my IBM P260 21" CRT.

I know it's confusing that Apple doesn't specify DVI-D in the tech specs web page, and DVI-D isn't specified in the PDF entitled "Display Technology Overview." That's just Apple trying to keep things simple.

The Apple Cinema Display cannot take an analog signal. That's why Apple boasts about the pure digital signal.

You're free to attempt the connections you propose, but it won't work.
Thanks for clearing that up mate, got confused because Apple didn't specify, anywhere, if it was DVI-D or both and just DVI usually means both. I would love to have the 20" as a second screen but paying £200 for the VGAtor is just not justifiable

[240vac]

No price drop in China. I plan on buying an iMac after MSWF, but I'm having to pay an extra 23% on the 20". I really hope they drop the price of the iMac in China soon.

Not much chance of a price drop (unless there's one in the US as well) while the Chinese currency is linked to the US dollar...

[JGowan]

The 20 and 23" are still a little on the high side comparatively. The are exceedingly well designed though. Another $200 off of each would have made them really competitive.Perhaps competitive price-wise which somehow is how most people look at everything -- Somehow so many forget that for a couple of hundred extra bucks they will have the absolute very best and will pay off in the years ahead with being supremely happy about the gear you paid a little more for.

I still believe that you get what you pay for.

[Rod Rod]

Thanks for clearing that up mate, got confused because Apple didn't specify, anywhere, if it was DVI-D or both and just DVI usually means both. I would love to have the 20" as a second screen but paying £200 for the VGAtor is just not justifiable

You're welcome. I learned the difference between the different DVI cable types by trial and error myself. By the second try (meaning eBay cable purchase) I knew what I needed, but the seller sent me the wrong type (his listing said DVI-I but he sent me a DVI-D cable). The third time around, with yet another seller, I got what I needed all along, which was a DVI-A cable (both ends DVI-A). One computer is connected on the P260's VGA input and the other is connected on its DVI input.

[Edge100]

Seems odd that the 1.8 17" iMac (which was previously $1899) is now $1749 CAN (with edu discount), while the 1.8 Single G5 PowerMac, which was previously also $1899, is now at $1699 CAN (with edu discount).

Even stranger is the fact that without the edu pricing, the iMac is $1849 CAN while the PowerMac is $1899.

I cant figure this one out. If you are a student, Apple wants you to buy the single 1.8 Powermac. If not, they'd prefer that you buy the iMac. Very odd.

I'm in the market for either of these machines, but I'm waiting until after the keynote to make the decision. When I saw the edu pricing, I figured they lowered the Powermac prices to make way for faster models next week. But now I dont know what to think. I doubt they would eliminate the speed parity between these two models, since the 1.8 PM is essentially the headless iMac (notwithstanding the mini iMac rumours).

Comments???

[nylon]

Or Apple could do the same as Samsung:
Just print a higher contrast number.

Always take the specs with a grain of salt. See it for real instead.

Actually, I own a Samsung 173p LCD monitor and I have been numerous times to the Apple store to have a look at the displays. I'm sorry but compared to the Samsung the Apple montors look washed out. The actual picture quality is not what you would expect. (The 23" monitor is particularly bad)

I've had an itch to buy one of the new Apple displays since they came out but I just could not justify the cost. Although the price decrease is a good thing, It will only be a few months until Samsung comes out with a wide screen monitor with twice the contrast and half the price. I understand that Apple is a premium brand but they still need to have the hardware to back up the wonderful design and maintain that stellar reputation.

By the way for those discussing the Dell 2005FPW. These monitors although cheap, have severe backlight issues. There are very detailed threads at Neowin.com and Hardocp.com that clearly demonstrate very poor QC with this monitor.

[xStep]

I have read that the quality of the Dell monitor is really poor. It also stated if you were going to use it for graphics or color not to even bother.
So yes I do wish there was a PIP in the Apples monitor so I could watch some tv while working. But I would rather have a monitor that will display things correctly.

From what I've read, the LCD panels are sometimes not properly set into the frames. This is causing some major light leakage, called backlight bleeding I think. Mainly in the corners. I found this information searching the internet on December 22. I'm sure I e-mailed my brothers the URL, so I'll try to post it tonight when I get home.

Otherwise the quality is suppose to be high. Most users seem to like them. The only reason I didn't order one was because of the problem I mentioned above.

[EDIT] Thread found at anandtech.com (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1433149&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear)

[SiliconAddict]

I can't remember exactly where I've read it. I've been reading a ton of things lately. I'm in the market to get a new monitor. I think I did read though that dell and apple use the same lcd display?
Not sure though. I know manufacturers can use the same display but the picture quality could vary.

Yah and using google I've read the screen used in the Dell is the exact same as the one used in the 20" Apple. So there you have it. Can anyone confirm this or not?

[risc]

Great price drops on the monitors, and iMacs here in Australia. It looks like the price on the Power Macs has dropped a little too. I can't wait to see what happens next week. It's a great time to be in the cult! :)

[Frobozz]

If you want a monitor that is better than the Apple offering at 23", I suggest giving the HP L2335 a shot:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/monitors/tft/l2335.html

It's a great monitor and costs $1,599 direct from HP. I have one and it's amazing. In fact, the HP has SVideo and Component Video inputs to compliment it's DVI and VGA inputs. That means it can be used as a regular TV monitor (in addition to an HDTV). It also has PIP, so you can watch TV and use your computer at the same time.

I got the monitor at www.pagecomputers.com for about $1,530 shipped. It looks even cheaper now:
http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/B1332992.html

[Rick Friele]

Makes my deal I got ($999 for 20" display) back in November not so great. Atleast they are competitvely priced now.

[ccrandall77]

I know others have said it already, but I'll irriterate and say that I'm thinking that the price drop may indicate the arrival of 15" and/or 17" monitors. The price drop from the 30" to the 23" is about 40%, it's 45% when going from 23" to 20". From that, I think it's not out of the realm of possibility to see 17" displays for about $550 and 15" displays for $330.

I think this would be a good idea, particularly if the headless iMac rumor pans out. While a headless iMac might be meant for those already with a computer and monitor, I think there'll be a lot who'll say "What the hell!" and pick up a small Apple monitor at the same time. I'm certainly the type that once I take the plunge on a big ticket item I'm more inclined to go all the way and buy all the nice little accessories.

For myself, a 15.4" cinema display at $330 would be perfect. I'm now leaning towards picking up a headless iMac to use for a webserver. If it doesn't come with PVR capabilities builtin, I'll probably splurge and pick up an EyeTV 200. A 15.4" cinema would round out the deal and be a great replacement for the crappy 13" TV I have now in my bedroom.... it'd also be nice to relocate a small monitor to my computer room to hook it up to my Powerbook when I'm doing web development.

[trans3062]

I know many will say I've gone over the edge but I plan to replace my PowerMac next week with either a new one or one of the so called mini-macs, so today I bought from Dell the same monitor that I sit in front of at work.

It's the E193FP 19-inch flat panel and I got it for $386.10. I have my current PowerMac plugged into a Planar 191M and have enjoyed it but the picture on the Dell is a little better. I would love to have an Apple one but cannot justify the price when that money can be directed to other hardware/software.

[swissmann]

That 20" looks really tempting. The only thing holding me back is that it can't handle a 1080i HD video. The 23" is significantly more expensive. Allthough I saw a 30" the other day and it pretty much screams buy me - the price tag doesn't matter. Good thing the voice of my screaming wife would be a bit louder or else I would be in debt.

[johnnyjibbs]

Good to see price drops. Still way above my price point though - but I'm not in the market for one. I'll just have to be content with a visit to the Apple Store and a drool... especially dual 30"s :D

[swissmann]

I know many will say I've gone over the edge but I plan to replace my PowerMac next week with either a new one or one of the so called mini-macs, so today I bought from Dell the same monitor that I sit in front of at work.

It's the E193FP 19-inch flat panel and I got it for $386.10. I have my current PowerMac plugged into a Planar 191M and have enjoyed it but the picture on the Dell is a little better. I would love to have an Apple one but just cannot justify the price when that money can be directed to other hardware/software.

I know where you are coming from. I bought some 17" Dell monitors that I still use. When I put the new 20" iMac G5 next to it I realized that if I were to do it again I would buy a better display - not just bigger but better too.

[SiliconAddict]

I still believe that you get what you pay for.

Maybe so but sometimes you simply are paying more for a product that has standard hardware. Which isn't getting what you paid for its getting fleeced on a product that should be cheaper. They are counting on people to not comparison shop and simply purchase it because it looks slick with my G5 tower.


LOL. I love the reasoning on the thread so far. It almost sounds a bit like circular logic.

No one seems to bother to look at the actual specs of the hardware they are comparing. Contrast ratio, dot pitch, viewing angle, etc. In almost every case there is a better solution on the market other then Apple which wouldn’t be that big of a deal if it wasn’t for the fact that they are also cheaper. You want to go with an all Apple solution that costs more that is fine but please don't try pissing in my face and call it rain. Are ACD good? Yes. Are they the best on the market? Close. Are they more expensive then they should be? Damn straight.

[Sir_Giggles]

The 30" Cinema Display dropped $900 CDN at the Canadian Apple Store! :eek:

[ZildjianKX]

My friend just picked up a 2005FPW for $550 shipped... fantastic monitor. I would be crazy to spend $999 on a 20" without dual input.

[Mainyehc]

Apple should take a bold move and allow iMac, iBook and eMac users to use dual-display setups by means of a firmware upgrade. For a very simple reason: If this iMac-mini-think comes into existence, it will be a much more flexible machine than any other consumer Mac. Besides, Apple will likely introduce cheaper displays, and it would be very important that they get to sell them in quantity. They could tap into their user base and sell displays to consumer AIO/laptop users, while providing a nice display for the new headless Mac. Since a huge chunk of those new Mac users will be using their old CRTs (or maybe TFTs), Apple should have a hard time selling those displays to those users, and also to PM users (who are more likely to buy Cinema Displays).

If they sold a lot of those displays, they would become cheap for Apple to "produce" them (I know that Apple-branded displays aren't even made by Apple, but the bigger the orders they place, the better, just like with all iPod and Mac models).

I wouldn't be buying an extra display for my iMac, partly because I don't have the money, but especially because I don't want to install firmware hacks to make dual-displays work. Display mirroring is preety much useless for regular tasks, so I think Apple is being stupidly stubborn on this one...

But think about it... They could do that, and they could also offer a multi-button mouse. Those would sell millions :D

[Chip NoVaMac]

Perhaps competitive price-wise which somehow is how most people look at everything -- Somehow so many forget that for a couple of hundred extra bucks they will have the absolute very best and will pay off in the years ahead with being supremely happy about the gear you paid a little more for.

I still believe that you get what you pay for.

I agree, but other than the SWOP certification I can say there is a compelling reason than design to make up the price difference.

[johnnyjibbs]

Apple should take a bold move and allow iMac, iBook and eMac users to use dual-display setups by means of a firmware upgrade. For a very simple reason: If this iMac-mini-think comes into existence, it will be a much more flexible machine than any other consumer Mac. Besides, Apple will likely introduce cheaper displays, and it would be very important that they get to sell them in quantity. They could tap into their user base and sell displays to consumer AIO/laptop users, while providing a nice display for the new headless Mac. Since a huge chunk of those new Mac users will be using their old CRTs (or maybe TFTs), Apple should have a hard time selling those displays to PM users (who are more likely to get Cinema Displays).

If they sold a lot of those displays, they would become cheap for Apple to "produce" them (I know that Apple-branded displays aren't even made by Apple, but the bigger the orders they place, the better, just like with all iPod and Mac models).

I wouldn't be buying an extra display for my iMac, partly because I don't have the money, but especially because I don't want to install firmware hacks to make dual-displays work. Display mirroring is preety much useless for regular tasks, so I think Apple is being stupidly stubborn on this one...

But think about it... They could do that, and they could also offer a multi-button mouse. Those would sell millions :D
Knowing Apple though that could have a flipside. Apple could just as easily cripple the new headless Macs to, say, VGA and a max res. It would be a travesty, but it could happen.

[Chip NoVaMac]

My friend just picked up a 2005FPW for $550 shipped... fantastic monitor. I would be crazy to spend $999 on a 20" without dual input.

Congrats. I almost ended up that monitor if it weren't for the typical Dell snafus. I ended up with the 2001FP and could not be happier. If I had gotten the 2005FPW I would have be just as happy.

[Mainyehc]

Heck! I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled [with the headless Mac] as an option.

No, that's not going to happen, since, as someone already pointed that out, most PC users still have PS/2 keyboard and mice. And even if they're bluetooth/usb/cordless usb, chances are they are not hybrid Macintosh/Windows keyboards (I've seen a few from Logitech, but they're rare all the same). And the mouse is still going to be a single-button mouse, which is a shame. That is the only thing that Apple should let you decide: getting the classic single-button mouse, or, like I mentioned, getting an Apple-branded multi-button mouse. ;)

[toughboy]

so now it competes with Sony's 20" LCD display, which is priced 950$..

Go Apple Go.. Release the headless cheap iMac..

[wdlove]

This is good news to see these price drops. It should stimulate more sales.

[Mainyehc]

Knowing Apple though that could have a flipside. Apple could just as easily cripple the new headless Macs to, say, VGA and a max res. It would be a travesty, but it could happen.

In MHO, I think that would defeat the whole purpose of that new Mac. And don't come with that "iPod mini was overpriced but people still went crazy about it" crap. No, this time, that won't work, in the same way that NOT EVEN the iMac G5 (which is an almost perfect machine and a thus a sweet deal) is succeding in become the "iPod" of the Macintosh product line (aesthetical similarities aside)... Ok, anyway, if that max. resolution cap was something along 1280x1024, it might not be a big deal... Let's just hope that doesn't happen AT ALL...

[julzmon]

http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_L2335/4505-3174_7-30788118-2.html?tag=tab

Cnet gave it a pretty descent review. Seems Apples display was still a little better. Not sure why but that's what the graph said :)

Is there anywhere I can look at one of these? Anyone know?

But then for a couple of extra $200 you could have the Apple display.

Yes I know HP has all those extra inputs. But I wonder how often will you watch tv in PIP on your monitor? I know I can just turn my head and see my regular tv. And if you are going to use it as a HD display... Are you going to put your computer desk in your living room where the stereo is and surround sound? I don't think so. Trying to reason with my self here :)



If you want a monitor that is better than the Apple offering at 23", I suggest giving the HP L2335 a shot:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/monitors/tft/l2335.html

It's a great monitor and costs $1,599 direct from HP. I have one and it's amazing. In fact, the HP has SVideo and Component Video inputs to compliment it's DVI and VGA inputs. That means it can be used as a regular TV monitor (in addition to an HDTV). It also has PIP, so you can watch TV and use your computer at the same time.

I got the monitor at www.pagecomputers.com for about $1,530 shipped. It looks even cheaper now:
http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/B1332992.html

[Earendil]

I'm hearing a few people in this thread put down the idea of a 15" or 17" monitor, because they are so last decade. As if everyone should have a 20" flat screen these days.

I'm sure us Powerbook owners know how much we spent to get a portable option. As a college student, I would love to add a 17" wide screen apple display to my desk to compliment my 15" powerbook screen. A 17" monitor, dual spanned, would actually make me overjoyed in a way that can not be expressed without talking about finals ending, graduating, or shooting professors.

I would love to have a 20" display, but the reality is it probably wouldn't fit on my desk, and a 17" screen would be heaven and a nice compliment to my current set up.

~Tyler

[Earendil]

http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_L2335/4505-3174_7-30788118-2.html?tag=tab

Cnet gave it a pretty descent review. Seems Apples display was still a little better. Not sure why but that's what the graph said :)

Is there anywhere I can look at one of these? Anyone know?

But then for a couple of extra $200 you could have the Apple display.

Yes I know HP has all those extra inputs. But I wonder how often will you watch tv in PIP on your monitor? I know I can just turn my head and see my regular tv. And if you are going to use it as a HD display... Are you going to put your computer desk in your living room where the stereo is and surround sound? I don't think so. Trying to reason with my self here :)

Any monitor that can be used for TV purposes would be perfect for dorm rooms. Most of us here have TVs between 15 and 20 inches, that aren't flat, and are awkwardly placed someplace in the room. Most of us would love to watch movies and TV on our monitors. In my own room I use my laptop for every movie I possibly can, as my 15in "old en busted" TV isn't worth much besides watching regular television.

Now if only these monitors were priced for dorm rooms ;)

~Tyler

[dogcowabunga]

Heck! I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled as an option.

Speaking of bundles, I can easily envision a $999 bundle being offered, consisting of:

• iMac mini
• 15" LCD screen
• Bluetooth mouse & keyboard
• 20GB iPod
• inexpensive 3rd party inkjet printer

Such a bundle would be a VERY attractive package for college-bound students, families wanting to add a second full system to a household, etc.

[Sir_Giggles]

Speaking of bundles, I can easily envision a $999 bundle being offered, consisting of:

• iMac mini
• 15" LCD screen
• Bluetooth mouse & keyboard
• 20GB iPod
• inexpensive 3rd party inkjet printer

Such a bundle would be a VERY attractive package for college-bound students...

Don't forget the $500 video card.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm hearing a few people in this thread put down the idea of a 15" or 17" monitor, because they are so last decade. As if everyone should have a 20" flat screen these days.

I'm sure us Powerbook owners know how much we spent to get a portable option. As a college student, I would love to add a 17" wide screen apple display to my desk to compliment my 15" powerbook screen. A 17" monitor, dual spanned, would actually make me overjoyed in a way that can not be expressed without talking about finals ending, graduating, or shooting professors.

I would love to have a 20" display, but the reality is it probably wouldn't fit on my desk, and a 17" screen would be heaven and a nice compliment to my current set up.

~Tyler

I understand where you are coming from. I loved my PB 12", and thought the screen was enough to do the job. That was till I got a 20" LCD. Now I can't see using anything less.

[JGowan]

I'm ok with it... um, quick question, which do you think is better, 2 20" displays or 1 23" display? Now that 2 twenties are similar in price to 1 23", I'm inclined to get the double twenties. Any thoughts from the brain trusts here?Although I love my new 23", if you're thinking about 2 twenties, I'd go with that. I only bought mine because I knew eventually I would put another 23" with the first one. I'm going to wait until one more price drop before I get it -- it will be sweet!

[anubis]

Makes my deal I got ($999 for 20" display) back in November not so great. Atleast they are competitvely priced now.


False. Even with the price drop, they are still fantastically overpriced. I can get a Dell 2005fp, which is a 20.1" widescreen display with similar display specs and characteristics as the 20-inch cinema display, but with dual-input. Also with coupon codes I can get it for just over $500.

Competitively priced? I don't think so. They're still nearly TWICE as expensive as the competition with no significantly better specs.

[dontmatter]

Three things:

1. It's been said before, but this is AWESOME news, along with the xserve/xsan news. Not because the price drops/spec increases are that incredible (actually seem a little small to me), but because of the timing. We know about how much will be announced next week, but we also know that this, by being announced this week, cannot be announced next week... good sign for next week, very good sign. A bit dissapointed in the rumor mill, though, because it's way more fun to be surprised by what apple has done, than simply finding out that this rumor was true, and this wasn't. oh well.

2. Currency drops: this makes very little sense. I'm not an economics major or anything, but I think that if the US dollar is declining against world currencies, that makes goods made in the US cheaper elsewhere, and goods made elsewhere more expensive in the US. But apple doesn't make stuff in the US. The US dollar doesn't matter-what matters is asian currencies versus european currencies, which, to my knowledge, haven't been particularly different lately than before this price drop. The weak US dollar should mean price increases in the US, and hold steady everywhere else.

3. Monitor quality-it's a well known fact that stats are not the whole picture, and are manipulated to the highest numbers possible, even if it doesn't increase actual quality, because it will sell something. That said, I don't know that apple displays are particularly any better or worse, for their statistics, than others, except that I can say that they have historically been the highest quality displays around. I remember a big article in the NY times a while back, talking about how for pro's, CRT's are still the most color accurate, and therefore the best, but LCD's were catching up. The LCD they said was pretty much the undisputed best among the LCD's was the apple one, and it was equal quality to CRT, but not as cheap. Other than that, they said, LCD's weren't really comparable to CRT's.

So, I don't know what the story is, but i'd like a source talking about the more complex stuff than pixels and contrast ratios, before I call dell or apple superior. In the mean time, I can say that I am highly, highly satisfied with the screen on my 17 inch powerbook, but for one factor-I just can't get white to be white enough. Also, the thing chews through battery power, but that is to be expected.

[dontmatter]

Apple should take a bold move and allow iMac, iBook and eMac users to use dual-display setups by means of a firmware upgrade. For a very simple reason: If this iMac-mini-think comes into existence, it will be a much more flexible machine than any other consumer Mac. Besides, Apple will likely introduce cheaper displays, and it would be very important that they get to sell them in quantity. They could tap into their user base and sell displays to consumer AIO/laptop users, while providing a nice display for the new headless Mac. Since a huge chunk of those new Mac users will be using their old CRTs (or maybe TFTs), Apple should have a hard time selling those displays to those users, and also to PM users (who are more likely to buy Cinema Displays).

If they sold a lot of those displays, they would become cheap for Apple to "produce" them (I know that Apple-branded displays aren't even made by Apple, but the bigger the orders they place, the better, just like with all iPod and Mac models).

I wouldn't be buying an extra display for my iMac, partly because I don't have the money, but especially because I don't want to install firmware hacks to make dual-displays work. Display mirroring is preety much useless for regular tasks, so I think Apple is being stupidly stubborn on this one...

But think about it... They could do that, and they could also offer a multi-button mouse. Those would sell millions :D

brilliant.

You know what i'd most like to see at the keynote? "once upon a time, we gave up the floppy, because it's time was done. Now, we give up the single button mouse-because face it, that thing is useless.

[dongmin]

Apple monitors are ALWAYS bad deals spec wise. They're superior in terms of the design and ergonomics, but otherwise, there's really no argument: Apple displays are overpriced (except in the high-end).


While I agree with Steve/Apple that we use TVs differently than we use computer screens, Apple should offer more flexibility. They're really missing a market segment (the urban, style-conscious minimalists) who'd prefer to have just one monitor double as a TV and computer screen. Anyone who's lived in a cramped Manhattan apartment would appreciate the potential of this flexibility.

There's really no excuse why Apple doesn't offer TV-in capabilities with their monitors. If not, they should at least offer an TiVo-like option. Come on Apple, help us CONSOLIDATE and simplify our lives, not complicate.

[Bendit]

A 17" monitor must be in the works if a cheap headless mac is to be released next week. No one would buy a $500 computer and then pay $999 for a monitor.

99% of people don't need a 20" or larger monitor.

I have a 12" PowerBook with a resolution of 1024x768 and that works well for me. Although I would like the option of a 17" WideScreen monitor for my desk and my PC.

[Bendit]

Apple monitors are ALWAYS bad deals spec wise. They're superior in terms of the design and ergonomics, but otherwise, there's really no argument: Apple displays are overpriced (except in the high-end).


While I agree with Steve/Apple that we use TVs differently than we use computer screens, Apple should offer more flexibility. They're really missing a market segment (the urban, style-conscious minimalists) who'd prefer to have just one monitor double as a TV and computer screen. Anyone who's lived in a cramped Manhattan apartment would appreciate the potential of this flexibility.

There's really no excuse why Apple doesn't offer TV-in capabilities with their monitors. If not, they should at least offer an TiVo-like option. Come on Apple, help us CONSOLIDATE and simplify our lives, not complicate.

But are they? Try to find a WIDESCREEN monitor for the same price. The only other widescreen monitors I know of are insanely expensive. Apple can sell them for alot of money because if you want that size of a monitor with those resolutions, it's your only option.

[xsnightclub]

brilliant.

You know what i'd most like to see at the keynote? "once upon a time, we gave up the floppy, because it's time was done. Now, we give up the single button mouse-because face it, that thing is useless.

The single button mouse is useless, to those who are to lazy to use their other hand.

Other than that, the news of the monitor price reductions is great, because it will bring more interest to them even if they are higher priced than the competition, now they are closer priced.
And the best part is this info and Xserve will take up minimal amount of the upcoming keynote.
Leaving 1/2 hour of time for other topics, after the first 1 hour of iPod.

[JGowan]

IF the news at MacWorld had been skimpy these items would have been announced by Jobs next week and not a week early. This lends credence to much better news coming out at macWorld on Tuesday Jan 11.I hadn't thought about it like that... you are SPOT ON!

[JGowan]

...Personally after doing the research I'm sticking with a boring 20" CRT for another year. Even $675 is too spendy for a monitor.God, I remember spending $850 on a 17" Sony CRT with only 800x600 resolution back in 1996. Times, they are a'changin.

[B_Gates]

A 17" monitor must be in the works if a cheap headless mac is to be released next week. No one would buy a $500 computer and then pay $999 for a monitor.

99% of people don't need a 20" or larger monitor.

I have a 12" PowerBook with a resolution of 1024x768 and that works well for me. Although I would like the option of a 17" WideScreen monitor for my desk and my PC.

One could only hope!!!! 17 inch monitor would be great, Widescreen or regular.

[aussie_geek]

:eek:

Excellent prices here in Australia - 20 inch from $2299 to $1599 !! :eek:

They have dropped the prices of the iMac G5's as well - $200 off the base model 1.6 Ghz :)


aussie_geek

[Chomolungma]

While I agree with Steve/Apple that we use TVs differently than we use computer screens, Apple should offer more flexibility. They're really missing a market segment (the urban, style-conscious minimalists) who'd prefer to have just one monitor double as a TV and computer screen. Anyone who's lived in a cramped Manhattan apartment would appreciate the potential of this flexibility.


I think your argument may make sense if we have working 42" computer monitor. I think all of us in here at one time or another have thought of this idea, and no doubt Apple's designer had discussed this issue before. I don't really see the furniture arrangement that would allow for this. Unless you are a single male who cares little of decor. I mean, I like siting on the couch while watching TV, and the 23" and even the 30" wide may not be big enough for me. Plus, you have to watch TV while that happens to be on your desk-workspace.

I don't know if the computer and TV will ever be one. But it seems to be the fantasy of many guys (the straight variety?). Personally, I don't think it will ever work (for most people). I mean, come on, the TV is meant to be a relaxing furniture and the computer is meant for work.
What do I know.

-Chomo :D

[nickgoldman]

When I got my powermac a month ago I defiantley thought the apple displays were far to exspensive I ended up getting a formac gallery 1900(I got it from a guy that works for formac) it has the raven specs but is in the oxygen colour for only £310

[Mord]

now if i were considering a 23" display it would only be a couple of hundred bucks more for two 20" displays which i would go for if i had the money.

[JGowan]

Win the Lottery. It will solve all those pesky money problems.
I'm in the same predicament... I'm having a really hard time to decide what to get.

Any opinions?

[SiliconAddict]

Knowing Apple though that could have a flipside. Apple could just as easily cripple the new headless Macs to, say, VGA and a max res. It would be a travesty, but it could happen.

:eek: If so Jobs will make little children and at least one grown man, me, cry. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif

More accurately if he does that I will walk out into the parking lot of my building and scream until I'm horse. Better to have no headless Mac then one that is stuck at 640x480 or even 1024x768.

[BB1985]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

I'm pretty sure that you can return any Apple item within 14 days, simply return and repurchase.

The difference will get you an iPod or 2...!!

Good Luck

[oingoboingo]

:eek:

Excellent prices here in Australia - 20 inch from $2299 to $1599 !! :eek:

They have dropped the prices of the iMac G5's as well - $200 off the base model 1.6 Ghz :)


aussie_geek

Yeah, these price drops are pretty good (especially on the iMac G5...there's going to be more general interest in that than the 20" display I think). Makes you wonder where they've come from though. The AUD has been reasonably steady against the USD for a while now (fluctuates between about 74 cents up to 78 cents). If there were equivalent price drops in the US though I suppose it could just be falling component costs and/or slipping sales that are the reason.

[SLCentral]

But are they? Try to find a WIDESCREEN monitor for the same price. The only other widescreen monitors I know of are insanely expensive. Apple can sell them for alot of money because if you want that size of a monitor with those resolutions, it's your only option.

Dell 2005 model, Widescreen 20", better specs then Apple's, and can be had for $600 with deals that come up at least once a month.

[iGary]

The only thingh stopping me from hocking my clear ACD is hogging up all my I/O ports with those USB/Firewire/Power things coming off the back. I love the ADC connector, personally.

Oh well.

Glad to see the price drops though. Appears as if Apple is trying to get a bit more competitive in the market, which is nice. :cool:

[JGowan]

... compared to the Samsung the Apple montors look washed out. ... picture quality is not what you would expect ... 23" monitor is particularly bad ...It never fails. When someone starts really kicking Apple's @$$, you can almost always guarantee they're a "MACRUMORS NEWBIE" -- a PC troll trying to take some wind out of Apple's sail.

I have had the 22" Cinema Display, the 23" HD Display (old school style) and the current 23" HD Display and I must say that as a pro graphic artist, Apple's displays are the best. The color is about as rich as you can get.

Be gone, Troll -- Troll, be gone.

[Sir_Giggles]

Actually, I own a Samsung 173p LCD monitor and I have been numerous times to the Apple store to have a look at the displays. I'm sorry but compared to the Samsung the Apple montors look washed out.

Too funny.

link (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/images/products/large/A0393599.jpg)

[JGowan]

Maybe so but sometimes you simply are paying more for a product that has standard hardware.

Sorry... the new lineup of Apple displays are not standard. Have you ever even seen or used one?

Which isn't getting what you paid for its getting fleeced on a product that should be cheaper.

Simply one addict's opinion.

They are counting on people to not comparison shop and simply purchase it because it looks slick with my G5 tower.

I don't own a G5 tower but have an AI 23" display. I didn't get for its looks (though it is the belle of the display ball),... I got it for it's quality. Worth every penny.

LOL. I love the reasoning on the thread so far. It almost sounds a bit like circular logic.

I love how superior you trying to sound. Get over yourself.

No one seems to bother to look at the actual specs of the hardware they are comparing. Contrast ratio, dot pitch, viewing angle, etc.

Oh... and I looked around ... and not just at specs ... I LOOKED at the monitors themselves. I had to come back to Apple. They were just superior. Period.

In almost every case there is a better solution on the market other then Apple which wouldn’t be that big of a deal if it wasn’t for the fact that they are also cheaper.

Regardless of the numbers game you seemed to be playing/falling for, the real test is seeing and using the monitor.

You want to go with an all Apple solution that costs more that is fine but please don't try pissing in my face and call it rain.

I'd call it hilarious.

Are ACD good? Yes. Are they the best on the market? Close. Are they more expensive then they should be? Damn straight.

Again, you get what you pay for.

[uberman42]

Actually, I own a Samsung 173p LCD monitor and I have been numerous times to the Apple store to have a look at the displays. I'm sorry but compared to the Samsung the Apple montors look washed out. The actual picture quality is not what you would expect. (The 23" monitor is particularly bad)

I've had an itch to buy one of the new Apple displays since they came out but I just could not justify the cost. Although the price decrease is a good thing, It will only be a few months until Samsung comes out with a wide screen monitor with twice the contrast and half the price. I understand that Apple is a premium brand but they still need to have the hardware to back up the wonderful design and maintain that stellar reputation.

By the way for those discussing the Dell 2005FPW. These monitors although cheap, have severe backlight issues. There are very detailed threads at Neowin.com and Hardocp.com that clearly demonstrate very poor QC with this monitor.

sorry if this was already mentioned but... I think it has to do with the apple store environment...the problem with the store is that it is too light, too bright. This washes the displays out, which is a bummer.

Funny to compare Apple and Samsung- the LCD panels for Apple are from Samsung. Apple, in a smart move sometime in the late 90's early '00s invested a lot in samsung's LCD plant and development. you are seeing the fruits of that effort.

so I am assuming a $600 G5 cube (1.6Ghz- all those unused 1.6 chips from the earlier PMacs); single 2.0, dual 2.5, and dual 2.8 Power macs; an apple HD phone using 1 gb flash that interfaced with the ipod or imac to upload a favorite playlist (IEEE-1394 on a phone?); and a Dual processor Powerbook 15" and 17". No G5 powerbooks till fall 2005 [it's the batteries people ;) ]

[Thresher]

Apple monitors are ALWAYS bad deals spec wise. They're superior in terms of the design and ergonomics, but otherwise, there's really no argument: Apple displays are overpriced (except in the high-end).


While I agree with Steve/Apple that we use TVs differently than we use computer screens, Apple should offer more flexibility. They're really missing a market segment (the urban, style-conscious minimalists) who'd prefer to have just one monitor double as a TV and computer screen. Anyone who's lived in a cramped Manhattan apartment would appreciate the potential of this flexibility.

There's really no excuse why Apple doesn't offer TV-in capabilities with their monitors. If not, they should at least offer an TiVo-like option. Come on Apple, help us CONSOLIDATE and simplify our lives, not complicate.

I'd argue that Apple monitors aren't even that much better ergonomically. My Dell 2005FPW raises, lowers, rotates, pivots, and can be turned to portrait mode. Additionally, it's VESA mountable. The Apple 20" pivots. That's about it.

[Thresher]

There was mention about quality issues on this monitor. I agree. I had a first month production monitor and it was horrible. It had all sorts of light bleeding at the corners and along the top edge. I went through the usual Dell nightmare, but got it replaced rapidly with a new monitor.

The new monitor is spotless. It's beautiful, sharp, and bright. No dead pixels, no bright spots.

Both panels have the same dimensions, both have the same resolutions. I'm not sure if they are the same panel or not, but their pixel size and density should be exactly the same.

The thing it lacks is the Apple attention to detail and design. I would LOVE to have an Apple Cinema Display to match my Powermac (and Powerbook for that matter), but feature wise and performance wise, I just can't justify it at a third more money.

If there is a discernable difference in image quality, it's lost on me. I can't see it and I have excellent vision. Sticking the word Pro on something doesn't make it so. Likewise, charging more for your product doesn't make it better.

If you want to talk OS quality or the merits of buying an Apple box versus a PC, I'm with you, but I'd just have to disagree when it comes to the monitor. I think Apple can charge a bit more because of the design and Apple's reputation for quality, but when you stack it against the Dell, it comes up feature poor and cost prohibitive for anyone who needs a good monitor at a decent price.

[reyesmac]

Anytime Apple has a product that does not end in 9's price-wise it just means they are squeezing as much profit out of it as they can get away with. Good to see these things are down to what they should have started out as to begin with. Still don't know if I should spend the money on 1600 pixels on one monitor when I can get 2200 spread spread across two for less. I have to see these in person.

[uberman42]

I don't know if the computer and TV will ever be one. But it seems to be the fantasy of many guys (the straight variety?). Personally, I don't think it will ever work (for most people). I mean, come on, the TV is meant to be a relaxing furniture and the computer is meant for work.
What do I know.

-Chomo :D

Chomo- i think about this everyday, and I think they will always be distinct because the interaction is different. I do want separation between the TV and computer. I like having a big screen across from me ( my computer behind my living room sofa) while working on a monitor- peering over once in awhile....

[alfismoney]

So now the apple displays are simply very expensive instead of unreasonable. I can still pick up 2 17 inch LCDs with 600:1 contrast ratios (higher than apple offers which means the display's half life is longer, something that never affected crts) for under $550 with free shipping by simply looking around the internet for who has a sale today. Let's face it, if I can buy a second video card and 3 displays (which ends up giving roughly double the real estate of a 20") for less than $950 I don't think Apple has reached a competitive price point yet.

The single button mouse is useless, to those who are to lazy to use their other hand.


Obviously you've never been eating lunch and working at your desk. I've got a drawer with 5 apple mice in it from each mac in the office, just think of the profit apple would make if they sold their own 3 button aftermarket...

[Thresher]

So now the apple displays are simply very expensive instead of unreasonable. I can still pick up 2 17 inch LCDs with 600:1 contrast ratios (higher than apple offers which means the display's half life is longer, something that never affected crts) for under $550 with free shipping by simply looking around the internet for who has a sale today. Let's face it, if I can buy a second video card and 3 displays (which ends up giving roughly double the real estate of a 20") for less than $950 I don't think Apple has reached a competitive price point yet.



Obviously you've never been eating lunch and working at your desk. I've got a drawer with 5 apple mice in it from each mac in the office, just think of the profit apple would make if they sold their own 3 button aftermarket...

Yeah, there is zero demand for Apple mice on eBay, too many of them sitting in drawers.

I have three of them. I really love my Apple Keyboard though :-)

[gforce73111]

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(

[dongmin]

Speaking of bundles, I can easily envision a $999 bundle being offered, consisting of:

• iMac mini
• 15" LCD screen
• Bluetooth mouse & keyboard
• 20GB iPod
• inexpensive 3rd party inkjet printer

Such a bundle would be a VERY attractive package for college-bound students, families wanting to add a second full system to a household, etc.What you're asking is basically a 15" PB with an ipod and inkjet thrown in. Not likely. On the other hand, you can get a 17" iMac G5 for $1199 edu. A better buy for college-bound students.

[BWhaler]

It never fails. When someone starts really kicking Apple's @$$, you can almost always guarantee they're a "MACRUMORS NEWBIE" -- a PC troll trying to take some wind out of Apple's sail.

I have had the 22" Cinema Display, the 23" HD Display (old school style) and the current 23" HD Display and I must say that as a pro graphic artist, Apple's displays are the best. The color is about as rich as you can get.

Be gone, Troll -- Troll, be gone.

Well done, dear sir, well done.

I don't get this behavior either. Why are there so many Apple haters? What are people afraid of?

If you don't like Apple or the Mac, don't buy one.

But I would imagine the PC guys would want Apple to thrive for no other reason than it forces the oligopoly in the PC world to innovate more. And honestly, there is so little innovation now on the pc side of the house, they should be thankful to Apple, open source, et al., for the tiny competitive pressure Intel and MS and Dell feel at all.

Competition and choice is a good thing for consumers, regardless of the choice you make. Would people really prefer a tech world where your only choice was an Intel CPU, a box from Dell, and your software from Microsoft and Adobe? Is that a great situation for consumers?

Of course not. But why can't the haters see this?

[Devie]

WOOHOO, 20": $1599 AUD.
The Dell 20" is $1299.10 AUD excluding shipping.
Im going for the Apple now :D, it will just look so much better next to the PowerMac and is worth an extra $300 imo.

[Mainyehc]

The single button mouse is useless, to those who are to lazy to use their other hand.

Of course, you're damn right! And I should have the right to be lazy when I am. I, personally, love using commands. Besides confusing my friends while doing something on my iMac (and also with my PC back when I still used it ;)), it gets a lot of stuff done faster. But no matter what some people say, there's nothing wrong in contextual menus being accessed via a second mouse button.

So, you think I should be denied the right to have a two-button mouse "out-of-the-box", or bundled, or whatever, without having to feel bad about throwing away into a drawer a perfectly functional mouse?? It feels bad, and it's a waste of money... I bought a two-button mouse with scroll wheel from MacMice, which is a nicely built "rip-off" of the Apple Mouse, but at a cost...

I don't know if you read the first post that ignited, again, this debate; anyway, I'll spare you from doing that. What I said was that Apple should let you CHOOSE whatever Apple branded mouse you like, be it single-button wired, single-button BT, multi-button with scroll-pad thingies and god knows what else, etc, etc, etc. Unlike dontmatter, I'm not suggesting Apple should drop the single-button mouse concept altogether. I just think they should just add some other options, get it? ;)

Anyay, here's why I think that multi-button mice CAN be superior to single-button ones: other switchers, like me, find the control-click combination very awkward. Btw, I must say that I used the original Apple mouse for a few months and got quickly used to it. But I always felt I was missing something, until I finally got that new mouse. And I used Windows for many, many years and Mac OS X for more than one (and I love it) So, I KNOW what I'm talking about because I've used both kinds of mice and both OSes.

Have you ever thought that it IS INDEED very awkward for unexperienced users to combine keys and mouse clicks, perhaps even more than using secondary mouse-clicks? For designers and all pros that's a natural thing to do, we have to perform a lot more of those combinations, so we get used to them. But for most users, it's easier to either use either pure keyboard commands or dedicated mouse clicks, period. I've seen it myself, colleagues of mine learning how to use photoshop and vector drawing apps, getting confused about actions as trivial as "holding shift to constrain". Now imagine someone who only uses M$ Office or does some web browsing, who is unfamiliar with those tricks (except maybe when selecting text), but may find that extra button handy?

Just a practical example: I'm holding a sandwich and reading some news on the web, while chatting with someone. I want to paste some text into my buddy's window. I don't want to drop my sandwich so how can I do such thing with only one hand (and of course, without needing to drop the mouse and type commands)?

With a single-button mouse: Select, click on "Edit" menu, select "Copy", use the Exposé active corners to find his window (on the worst case scenario, press F9), select the input field, click on "Edit", select "Paste". Press enter!

What about a two-button mouse? Aha! Select the text, right-click, select "Copy". Use Exposé. Right-click on the input field, select "Paste", and Press enter!

Now, what about a multi-button mouse? Even quicker: select text, right-click, Copy, use Exposé with dedicated mouse button, right-click input field, select Paste, press Enter!

The three all look preety much the same, but if you read carefully, the last one is definitely the fastest (of course, I wrote that last sentence with no periods, to make it seem faster :cool:. But it is indeed faster).

Another thing: someone once told me (dunno if it's true) that Ctrl-clicking is good from an ergonomic standpoint because it forces people to keep both hands on the desk... But you know, If you force those unexperienced users to use Ctrl-clicking to open contextual menus, they will likely ignore that function altogether. Why do you think Apple introduced the "Actions" button in the Panther Finder!? The thing is, there's no way you can have "Action" buttons all over the interface in each program, that's just plain stupid (as it is with the Finder, but that's MHO because I use a two-button mouse and know how to use Ctrl-clicking anyway...). So, even Apple acknowledges that those users don't take full advantage of Contextual menus, thus sometimes laying only one hand on the desk. Huh, so much for the ergonomy concerns. :rolleyes: It's a lose-lose situation!

And now, the final stab! You're trying to do the same Copy-Paste thing holding a sandwich, this time on an Apple laptop. Ouch, now you have to reach the Edit menu using that tiny trackpad... :rolleyes: As for Exposé, you either reach the active corners also with the trackpad or go for the F keys. If Apple includes those nifty volume control and eject buttons on their keyboards, couldn't they include some dedicated Exposé keys next to the trackpad? Like, to make things a little bit easier? It's the same company that developed the clickwheel, damn it! It's true that having a lot of buttons with unidentifiable icons printed on them usually looks fugly and causes clutter... But EXPOSÉ! It has become ubiquitous, perhaps as much as volume control... (I'm ranting because I've been playing with a friend's iBook today, and I'm still thinking about the experience) 'nuff said </rant>

[edit] Hey, now that I thought again about the clickwheel (sorry for the long post guys, but I must add this :p), I started wondering... Apple could develop some sort of clickpad. A laptop touchpad with clickable corners! Now that would be sweet, since it could be configurable ;) Damn, I should apply for a patent! :D

[Devie]

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(
Dude, sorry to hear that you could've gotten it a lot cheaper, but you should've known that the displays (and the Dual2.5) where going to take quite a while to be ready, and you should also of known that technology drops in price, and improves over time.

[min_t]

If you want a monitor that is better than the Apple offering at 23", I suggest giving the HP L2335 a shot:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/monitors/tft/l2335.html

It's a great monitor and costs $1,599 direct from HP. I have one and it's amazing. In fact, the HP has SVideo and Component Video inputs to compliment it's DVI and VGA inputs. That means it can be used as a regular TV monitor (in addition to an HDTV). It also has PIP, so you can watch TV and use your computer at the same time.

I got the monitor at www.pagecomputers.com for about $1,530 shipped. It looks even cheaper now:
http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/B1332992.html

Looks like someone took a piece of glass and hung it on a fence post. Damn, native hdtv! Who would want to do some work. :cool:

[markie]

"I wouldn't be surprised if keyboard and mice would only be bundled as an option."

Hopefully, as Apple's mice are worthless garbage (one button? what the heck, it slows down computer use so much. Even discounting that, they're uncomfortable due to the whole button is on the bottom thing.

As for displays, Apple won't make an affordable display to go with the rumored affordable Mac. Even an affordable Mac is so un-Apple-like I find it hard to believe (the iBook being the one exception - and also the Mac I own and love).

[Sophipod]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

I GOT MY REFUND... nice...

[Phat_Pat]

damnit figures i buy a new system and the prices get dropped :mad:

[BWhaler]

I GOT MY REFUND... nice...

Congrats.

Man, Apple really rocks. I love stories like this.

[Object-X]

That is incorrect.

You can have an external monitor connected to the iMac G5.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Sushi

Just for the record, the original poster I was responding too wanted to connect an Apple display which uses DVI. You can not connect it to an iMac. Other posters suggested you could convert with another adapter to go from VGA to DVI; those adapters are very expensive ($200-$300) plus $$ for the mini-VGA adapter; so I doubt it would work, and if it did, it would look like crap. So, I should have been more explicit that it doesn't have a DVI out and you won't be able to use it with an Apple monitor. :rolleyes:

[Object-X]

The DVI cable actually carries both an analog and digital signal. You can just pick up an adaptor that 'converts' VGA to DVI for very cheap. I know all my graphics cards that I have bought for PCs over the years that have both a VGA and a DVI port have came with an adaptor.

I still think Apple should of put a VGA port on the monitor, considering it would of increased it's usefulness dramatically.

They are not cheap. VGA to DVI (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310)

[madmaxmedia]

If the news at MacWorld had been skimpy these items would have been announced by Jobs next week and not a week early. This lends credence to much better news coming out at macWorld on Tuesday Jan 11.

Yeah, that would be pretty sad if after his keynote, his "one more thing" was cheaper monitors. ;)

[chubad]

Does anyone have any info on the Stevenote being streamed in Quicktime?
It would be cool if it was streamed live instead of the delayed posting that has been the trend lately.

[macridah]

I heard lcd prices will drop dramatically in the first half of 2005. I will wait a little longer to save a lot.

40" lcd tv's go for 2000. Once the huge LCD plants start cranking out LCD's, then expect a super drop in price.

[CTerry]

I plan to get a 15 inch PowerBook for when I go to university next year, I was looking around at displays, because while Ill probably wait 6-12 months theres a large possibility Ill want a second display to go with it. I don't care about PIP, ports etc. I just want a simple monitor, of a high quality, that will look good in my dorm (dudes, your room reflects on you, I dont want a woman looking at my monitor and thinking that Im cheap!) Apples back in the game! That 20 or maybe even 23 inch would be VERY nice.

[savar]

2. Currency drops: this makes very little sense. I'm not an economics major or anything, but I think that if the US dollar is declining against world currencies, that makes goods made in the US cheaper elsewhere, and goods made elsewhere more expensive in the US. But apple doesn't make stuff in the US. The US dollar doesn't matter-what matters is asian currencies versus european currencies, which, to my knowledge, haven't been particularly different lately than before this price drop. The weak US dollar should mean price increases in the US, and hold steady everywhere else.

Hmm.. I must've missed where this issue came up earlier in the thread. Anyhoo, I *am* an Econ major. You're right that in theory declines of the USD relative to East Asian currencies should make electronics more expensive in the US. However, most East/South East Asian countries have currencies that are pegged to the USD, thus they fluctuate in sync with the dollar. Sadly, this means the US's supposedly coming currency crisis will have phenomenal world fallout -- if it does indeed come about.

But your premise that these price drops are unrelated to currency value is probably on target. Even if the weakening currency was having an adverse effect on electronics imports, the net effect would be *upwards*. The exchange rate would make electronics more expensive and importers would respond by cutting prices a bit to keep market share.

3. Monitor quality-it's a well known fact that stats are not the whole picture, and are manipulated to the highest numbers possible, even if it doesn't increase actual quality, because it will sell something.

This is REALLY true. I don't know much about how these monitors are rated, but after reading up on HDTV's I can tell you that it can be exceedingly deceptive. Just because one monitor has twice the rated contrast ratio of the other doesn't mean it has twice the contrast ratio.

[Frobozz]

Yes I know HP has all those extra inputs. But I wonder how often will you watch tv in PIP on your monitor? I know I can just turn my head and see my regular tv. And if you are going to use it as a HD display... Are you going to put your computer desk in your living room where the stereo is and surround sound? I don't think so. Trying to reason with my self here :)

That's a very good question. I have mine set up next to another 18.1 inch LCD and I use a dual monitor setup in my bedroom/freelance work room. When I watch TV, I use the PIP. And, amazingly, I do. I have a second TiVo in my room and I plug the SVideo from that right into the L2335. In my case, buying this monitor prevented a need to buy a TV for my bedroom. So, I hear you on those points. In my case, it was a no brainer. The cost was no object, really... $1,500 vs. $2,000 (at the time) wasn't that big of a deal. It was the feature set. Apple fell short (this time.)

Now all I need is a dual 3.0 GHz G5 to go along with it.

[oingoboingo]

And now, the final stab! You're trying to do the same Copy-Paste thing holding a sandwich, this time on an Apple laptop. Ouch, now you have to reach the Edit menu using that tiny trackpad... :rolleyes: As for Exposé, you either reach the active corners also with the trackpad or go for the F keys. If Apple includes those nifty volume control and eject buttons on their keyboards, couldn't they include some dedicated Exposé keys next to the trackpad? Like, to make things a little bit easier? It's the same company that developed the clickwheel, damn it! It's true that having a lot of buttons with unidentifiable icons printed on them usually looks fugly and causes clutter... But EXPOSÉ! It has become ubiquitous, perhaps as much as volume control... (I'm ranting because I've been playing with a friend's iBook today, and I'm still thinking about the experience) 'nuff said </rant>

Specifically addressing the issue of efficiently using Expose with an iBook/PowerBook, the first thing any new Apple notebook owner should do is to download and install a utility called Sidetrack. It allows you to map the corners and edges of the trackpad to do various things, like act as scrolling areas, or to emulate mouse button clicks. I have the top-right corner of my 12" PowerBook pad mapped to mouse button 3, and the top-left corner of the pad mapped to mouse button 4. I also have the right edge of the pad acting as a vertical scroll area. By mapping Expose functions to mouse buttons 3 and 4 (tile all windows and show desktop in my case), I can get full use of Expose without my finger leaving the trackpad, or reaching for the keyboard with my other hand. I can't use my PowerBook without it :) Highly recommended.

[Yvan256]

:eek: If so Jobs will make little children and at least one grown man, me, cry. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif

More accurately if he does that I will walk out into the parking lot of my building and scream until I'm horse. Better to have no headless Mac then one that is stuck at 640x480 or even 1024x768.

Check website statistics, and you'll see that while almost no one is using 640x480 anymore, quite a lot are still using 800x600 and 1024x768 (I'm in the last group, being stuck with a 15" monitor that won't go higher anyway).

At work, on a 17", I was using 1152x864 (1280x1024 was too high for my taste).

I don't see why Apple would lock the GPU in low resolutions anyway? :confused:

[Yvan256]

I'd argue that Apple monitors aren't even that much better ergonomically. My Dell 2005FPW raises, lowers, rotates, pivots, and can be turned to portrait mode. Additionally, it's VESA mountable. The Apple 20" pivots. That's about it.

I wish all monitors could be changed to portrait mode... It rules for vertical games in MAME. :D

[Yvan256]

Competition and choice is a good thing for consumers, regardless of the choice you make. Would people really prefer a tech world where your only choice was an Intel CPU, a box from Dell, and your software from Microsoft and Adobe? Is that a great situation for consumers?

A lot (and I really mean a lot) of people still think it's the situation today... Computer = intel/AMD + Microsoft, no choice about it.

"Macs can't even go on the internet or do email" is also still alive and kicking.

Sad, but true.

[deral]

Aaack! I just came from the Apple Store, but didn't even bother looking at the new cheaper prices. I should have been more observant, erg., they need to release a time machine express so that I can go back an hour and pick up some more goodies.

[Yvan256]

Yeah, that would be pretty sad if after his keynote, his "one more thing" was cheaper monitors. ;)

Nah, I'm betting the "one more thing" will be the Mac mini. :cool:

[andrewh]

Maybe so but sometimes you simply are paying more for a product that has standard hardware. Which isn't getting what you paid for its getting fleeced on a product that should be cheaper. They are counting on people to not comparison shop and simply purchase it because it looks slick with my G5 tower.


LOL. I love the reasoning on the thread so far. It almost sounds a bit like circular logic.

No one seems to bother to look at the actual specs of the hardware they are comparing. Contrast ratio, dot pitch, viewing angle, etc. In almost every case there is a better solution on the market other then Apple which wouldn’t be that big of a deal if it wasn’t for the fact that they are also cheaper. You want to go with an all Apple solution that costs more that is fine but please don't try pissing in my face and call it rain. Are ACD good? Yes. Are they the best on the market? Close. Are they more expensive then they should be? Damn straight.


Some of us will buy and enjoy the best, and others will rationalize why they can't afford it -- "It's not very good", "Overpriced", "there are better deals", etc. Come on already.

So glad I'm not as cheap as so many people in here. If you're a student well you have an excuse. Anyone working for a living who can't justify a few bucks more for something you look at every day, for several years, is just a cheapazzz.

[dejo]

Just a practical example: I'm holding a sandwich and reading some news on the web, while chatting with someone. I want to paste some text into my buddy's window. I don't want to drop my sandwich so how can I do such thing with only one hand (and of course, without needing to drop the mouse and type commands)?

Yeah, but what do I do if I'm holding a sandwich in one hand and a soda in the other, reading some news on the web while chatting with someone? Argh! Why doesn't Apple make a mouse I can use with my foot? :D

Here's my advice, Mainyehc. Put down the sandwich and step away from the computer!

[dejo]

No one seems to bother to look at the actual specs of the hardware they are comparing. Contrast ratio, dot pitch, viewing angle, etc. In almost every case there is a better solution on the market other then Apple which wouldn’t be that big of a deal if it wasn’t for the fact that they are also cheaper.

How about some specific examples?

[CaptainCaveMann]

Some of us will buy and enjoy the best, and others will rationalize why they can't afford it -- "It's not very good", "Overpriced", "there are better deals", etc. Come on already.

So glad I'm not as cheap as so many people in here. If you're a student well you have an excuse. Anyone working for a living who can't justify a few bucks more for something you look at every day, for several years, is just a cheapazzz.Your obviously well off. You live in san fran and you are getting on peoples cases for not spending over a grand on a display. San fran is one of the most expensive places to live in the country i know because i live in san diego (born and raised). Im 21 im a student full time and i work full time. My parents bought their house 20 years ago for 115,000 and today its worth 600,000. Rent for me and my roomates is 2000 a month for a 3 bedroom pos house. I make 15 dollars and hour and i cant afford an apple display of that caliber. So shut it rich boy ;)

[andrewh]

Your obviously well off. You live in san fran and you are getting on peoples cases for not spending over a grand on a display. San fran is one of the most expensive places to live in the country i know because i live in san diego (born and raised). Im 21 im a student full time and i work full time. My parents bought their house 20 years ago for 115,000 and today its worth 600,000. Rent for me and my roomates is 2000 a month for a 3 bedroom pos house. I make 15 dollars and hour and i cant afford an apple display of that caliber. So shut it rich boy ;)

Ha ha, nice!

No, not putting anyone down for not spending a grand if they don't have it. There are lots of other products to choose from. It's the needless criticism of Apple products that is irritating. But really, $200 (price difference) is about the price of a couple of pairs of jeans these days. For a screen that your eyes are staring at sometimes for long hours, many days of the year, for a few years, it's easy to justify. I was a starving student as well, and I certainly knew what to save money on and what not too. It's not always about how much you make but what you do with it.

Anyway back on topic -- if people are happy with a Dell then fantastic, but to say that the Apple is not superior they are just not informed or are in denial.

[CaptainCaveMann]

Ha ha, nice!

No, not putting anyone down for not spending a grand if they don't have it. There are lots of other products to choose from. It's the needless criticism of Apple products that is irritating. But really, $200 (price difference) is about the price of a couple of pairs of jeans these days. For a screen that your eyes are staring at sometimes for long hours, many days of the year, for a few years, it's easy to justify. I was a starving student as well, and I certainly knew what to save money on and what not too. It's not always about how much you make but what you do with it.

Anyway back on topic -- if people are happy with a Dell then fantastic, but to say that the Apple is not superior they are just not informed or are in denial.I hear ya ;)

[rt_brained]

When was the last time Apple announced new product or price changes IN ADVANCE of MWSF? Fact is, if the upcoming keynote address was going to be light on information, then these two announcements would have been saved for next week.

Sounds like today's announcement was "spill-over" from a potentially feature-packed announcement next week. Perhaps the biggest we've seen in years.

On the other hand, this being Steve's first big outing since surgery and considering all the work and preparation that goes into the keynote, it could be an attempt to lighten his workload a bit.

[CaptainCaveMann]

When was the last time Apple announced new product or price changes IN ADVANCE of MWSF? Fact is, if the upcoming keynote address was going to be light on information, then these two announcements would have been saved for next week.

Sounds like today's announcement was "spill-over" from a potentially feature-packed announcement next week. Perhaps the biggest we've seen in years.

On the other hand, this being Steve's first big outing since surgery and considering all the work and preparation that goes into the keynote, it could be an attempt to lighten his workload a bit.Well, thats definately a positive way to look at it. In reality however, i think next week is going to be a dissapointment indeed for all of us to want pb,pm,imac updates.

[spikeovsky]

Well, thats definately a positive way to look at it. In reality however, i think next week is going to be a dissapointment indeed for all of us to want pb,pm,imac updates.

I'm with you on that one. I really hate the feeling of post-Macworld disappointment - remember a few years back when the "one more thing" was a "big thanks to all the great people working at Apple"?

So, just to maintain a degree of sanity and happiness, I'm not holding out for this miniMac. If it is released, I'm saying $599 for the basic model. No to the flashPod either, though this rumour of Apple selling 5GB iPod minis with some sort of weird firmware thing to limit the drive to 4GB is interesting. I'd love to see people's reactions if/when Steve tells them their 4GB minis are actually 5GBs - though I already feel the pain of Apple's servers as people rush out to download firmware updates. Hopefully they're using the new Xserves!

And hopefully I'm wrong about the miniMac! :D

[JFreak]

2. Currency drops: this makes very little sense. I'm not an economics major or anything, but I think that if the US dollar is declining against world currencies, that makes goods made in the US cheaper elsewhere, and goods made elsewhere more expensive in the US. But apple doesn't make stuff in the US. The US dollar doesn't matter-what matters is asian currencies versus european currencies, which, to my knowledge, haven't been particularly different lately than before this price drop. The weak US dollar should mean price increases in the US, and hold steady everywhere else.

OR... think another way.

apple discounts its prices once or twice a year, and it may very well be that the "us discount" was this time given in a form of no price increase, and the rest of the world saw the small discount it always had when the us prices were discounted.

this is a small step to the right direction, but it's still an outrage. 1 euro equals to 1.35 us dollars, so one $999 ibook should cost 740 euros were the price sheets "fair". well, at least in finland that ibook costs 845 euros before taxes, so there's still a lot of room (12,5%) for discounts, if apple really wanted to treat us international customers fair.

but it has always been their policy to set international prices "a bit" higher than they should, so they wouldn't have to adjust prices too often because of currency rates. apple likes that the price points are steady.

[Kirk]

Hmmm . . .

The prices on the Norwegian Apple store (online) are actually a bit higher today then they were yesterday. Not much, but still, a bit strange.

:confused:

[alfismoney]

I don't see why Apple would lock the GPU in low resolutions anyway? :confused:

For the same reason you can only mirror a display on the imac, emac, and ibook. There are many professional graphics users who don't need as much power as the G5 gives but benefit from lots of screen real estate. Examples being web design, the majority of Photoshop use, and logging/capturing in Final Cut Pro. All of these aren't taxing on processors because you're just doing simple repetitive tasks rather than serious data crunching but are much easier for the user when you can see a lot on the desktop. However, Apple's profit margins are MUCH higher when you buy a G5 desktop (instead of, say, a new headless 1024x768 imac) with no built in LCD display or a pretty, over engineered case. I love my mac to pieces but it drives me nuts when Apple tries to tell me that $1000 is a good deal for a LOW RESOLUTION (I can get and do get better from a cheap 19"crt, thank you) screen for my bloody computer and $1500 is a good price for an extremely low-end workstation with no RAM that takes up all of the room under one side of my desk

[Zaty]

For the same reason you can only mirror a display on the imac, emac, and ibook. There are many professional graphics users who don't need as much power as the G5 gives but benefit from lots of screen real estate. Examples being web design, the majority of Photoshop use, and logging/capturing in Final Cut Pro. All of these aren't taxing on processors because you're just doing simple repetitive tasks rather than serious data crunching but are much easier for the user when you can see a lot on the desktop. However, Apple's profit margins are MUCH higher when you buy a G5 desktop (instead of, say, a new headless 1024x768 imac) with no built in LCD display or a pretty, over engineered case. I love my mac to pieces but it drives me nuts when Apple tries to tell me that $1000 is a good deal for a LOW RESOLUTION (I can get and do get better from a cheap 19"crt, thank you) screen for my bloody computer and $1500 is a good price for an extremely low-end workstation with no RAM that takes up all of the room under one side of my desk

Well, it is true that unlike Apple, other PC makers don't arbitrarily lock resolutions but quite often, it doesn't make sense to use cheap graphics chips for high resolutions because the quality of the signal is just not good enough. I remember reading an article in a German magazine where they tested the quality of the output signal you get when you apply the iBook spanning hack. They clearly sad the quality was poor. I haven't tested this myself but I can tell that especially cheap Windows notebooks do have a poor signal quality. So the result of this test seems plausible. I totally agree that the main reason Apple locks spanning is only marketing but there could also be a technical reason.

[Lugonn]

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!


It happens, and I understand your anger.

When the original 22" cinema display was introduced at $3999, I looked at it, thought about it, and waited. Almost a year went by then I took a plunge and bought a G4 w/ the 22" cinema at full price. A bit over a month later, the new prices rolled out and the 22" monitor was at $2999. Talk about taking a hit.

I'm now in the market for a dual G5 and the 30" monitor. You can bet I will be waiting for the next hitch before hooking up. If it means having to wait a few more weeks, so be it.

In any case I'm sure you enjoyed the use of your dual 30s :p

[Kirk]

Never mind. Lookes like they forgot the sales tax increase . . .
:rolleyes:


Hmmm . . .

The prices on the Norwegian Apple store (online) are actually a bit higher today then they were yesterday. Not much, but still, a bit strange.

:confused:

[sunilraman]

For the same reason you can only mirror a display on the imac, emac, and ibook. There are many professional graphics users who don't need as much power as the G5 gives but benefit from lots of screen real estate. Examples being web design, the majority of Photoshop use, and logging/capturing in Final Cut Pro. All of these aren't taxing on processors because you're just doing simple repetitive tasks rather than serious data crunching but are much easier for the user when you can see a lot on the desktop. However, Apple's profit margins are MUCH higher when you buy a G5 desktop (instead of, say, a new headless 1024x768 imac) with no built in LCD display or a pretty, over engineered case. I love my mac to pieces but it drives me nuts when Apple tries to tell me that $1000 is a good deal for a LOW RESOLUTION (I can get and do get better from a cheap 19"crt, thank you) screen for my bloody computer and $1500 is a good price for an extremely low-end workstation with no RAM that takes up all of the room under one side of my desk

my lowly low end iBook g4 933mhz 256mb does extended desktop, not mirroring ... nice :D

ps... a bit of a simple but very effective hack downloaded off the wonderful 'net.

i believe those comment about quality issues is absolute bloody rubbish :mad: ... with the spanning hack/mod you can bring up the usual control panel that you can separately configure display resolution and adapter refresh rate for the ibook screen or external display respectively...

try it with a decent external lcd, even with the vga adapter only it should look sweet :o :

[sunilraman]

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(


gforce, i sympathise with you... i thought my love of apple would translate into a nice sales job at a quaint apple dealership in sydney... guess what, after 3 days i decided to quit and go back to web design (now i am trying to get into multimedia teaching/training/research)

apple supply chain is basically f*ed right now. we all love apple to death but like that naughty relative it has some dark sides to it that once you see it, well, somehow you learn to forgive because you love it so much... lol :o

i think what you got shafted with is totally dodgy and you could take that up with your local consumer affairs office. that is really dodgy and we've all learnt from your experience.... i think best strategy is do your research, line up what you want, wait for a price drop, then bam! hit all the dealers to see where you can get it all in stock within 2-3 weeks tops :p

take care dude... yeah... complain to your consumer affairs office !!

ps
i too was a bit of an early adopter in australia on the dualie-1.25ghz g4 MirroredDriveDoors and then single 1.6ghz g5... 'coz I was pushing Reason to the max.... but now i have learnt my lesson... better to wait a bit than jump in too early, in the meantime explore other ways to not max out that CPU bar in Reason :D

[rdowns]

Yeah, but what do I do if I'm holding a sandwich in one hand and a soda in the other, reading some news on the web while chatting with someone?

Dude, get yourself an iStraw.

[fraggle]

[edit] Hey, now that I thought again about the clickwheel (sorry for the long post guys, but I must add this :p), I started wondering... Apple could develop some sort of clickpad. A laptop touchpad with clickable corners! Now that would be sweet, since it could be configurable ;) Damn, I should apply for a patent! :D

You are a bit too late: http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/

I configured it on my PowerBook to have Expose on the lower left, right mouse button on the uper left and a fake scroll wheel on the right side.

BTW: I also have put Exposé on Fn which I never use otherwise which is very useful at least for right handers...

[captain kirk]

Seems odd that the 1.8 17" iMac (which was previously $1899) is now $1749 CAN (with edu discount), while the 1.8 Single G5 PowerMac, which was previously also $1899, is now at $1699 CAN (with edu discount).

Even stranger is the fact that without the edu pricing, the iMac is $1849 CAN while the PowerMac is $1899.

I cant figure this one out. If you are a student, Apple wants you to buy the single 1.8 Powermac. If not, they'd prefer that you buy the iMac. Very odd.

I'm in the market for either of these machines, but I'm waiting until after the keynote to make the decision. When I saw the edu pricing, I figured they lowered the Powermac prices to make way for faster models next week. But now I dont know what to think. I doubt they would eliminate the speed parity between these two models, since the 1.8 PM is essentially the headless iMac (notwithstanding the mini iMac rumours).

Comments???

I think i can help here, the level of edu discount apple gives depends on how much margin they have on a product, apple make considerably more money on the powermac than on the imac, hence the edu discount is bigger on the powermac, it is also the reason why there is a much bigger edu saving on software.

[illustratorDavi]

Hi

Macuser.co.uk have pointed out this offer where you can get a refund if you have just received a piece of apple hardware that has now gone down in price

I expect there is a US equivalent

http://registration.euro.apple.com/store/pricech/

Good Luck
David

[Fredstar]

Ah crap can't get a refund on my imac which arrived at the end of November :( so i can't get £100 back.

[Platform]

Long live price reduction :p

[oingoboingo]

On the other hand, this being Steve's first big outing since surgery and considering all the work and preparation that goes into the keynote, it could be an attempt to lighten his workload a bit.

I think the iPod Photo and U2 iPod launch (which Steve did) happened after his surgery.

[Platform]

I think the iPod Photo and U2 iPod launch (which Steve did) happened after his surgery.

Yes it happend after the operation

[ibjoshua]

More accurately if he does that I will walk out into the parking lot of my building and scream until I'm horse.

Wow! Is that possible? How would you change back?
;)

i_b_joshua

[Edge100]

I think i can help here, the level of edu discount apple gives depends on how much margin they have on a product, apple make considerably more money on the powermac than on the imac, hence the edu discount is bigger on the powermac, it is also the reason why there is a much bigger edu saving on software.

Yes, but before yesterday, they were sold for the same price, whether or not you were an edu customer. And I still think its odd that whether one machine is higher than another depends on the edu status.

[r_howie]

I just got a 30 inch on thurday of last week, do you think i can get a refund??? :mad:

Yes Sir.

[SiliconAddict]

Sorry... the new lineup of Apple displays are not standard. Have you ever even seen or used one?

I don't own a G5 tower but have an AI 23" display. I didn't get for its looks (though it is the belle of the display ball),... I got it for it's quality. Worth every penny.


Way to distort the facts. I'm talking the 20" display. The cheapest monitor you can get from Apple. There is a diff. the 23" is HD. The 20" isn't. Also there is a slight dot pitch diff which makes one look slightly sharper then the other. Typical zealot response. (Apple or Microsoft.) Twist the facts.

I have 3 apple stores within a 1/2 hour drive of my home. I'm in there almost once a month. Sorry but the contrast isn't anything to get excited over. Get over yourself and your product. Apple makes some good wares. They aren't the best on the planet. Period. And its pretty obviously I can't even talk to you because you aren't even being reasonable at this point. As I said before you can’t deny specs. Simply that the 20” ACD gets blown out of the water by similar wares. "But it looks better" If that is your only response then I pity you and your inability to actually consider other products. Apple must thank god for people like you that don't shop around. *puts on his blinders* But it looks better.
“Have you even checked out the competition?”
“But it looks better!”
“Did you check out the specs?”
“But it looks better!!”
“Did you..
”BUT IT LOOKS BETTER!!!!!”

Edit: OK OK....so the phrase "blown out of the water" is overkill. The hardware is comparable to most things out there. Superior? That is stretching it.

[Platform]

Way to distort the facts. I'm talking the 20" display. The cheapest monitor you can get from Apple. There is a diff. the 23" is HD. The 20" isn't. Also there is a slight dot pitch diff which makes one look slightly sharper then the other. Typical zealot response. (Apple or Microsoft.) Twist the facts.

I have 3 apple stores within a 1/2 hour drive of my home. I'm in there almost once a month. Sorry but the contrast isn't anything to get excited over. Get over yourself and your product. Apple makes some good wares. They aren't the best on the planet. Period. And its pretty obviously I can't even talk to you because you aren't even being reasonable at this point. As I said before you can’t deny specs. Simply that the 20” ACD gets blown out of the water by similar wares. "But it looks better" If that is your only response then I pity you and your inability to actually consider other products. Apple must thank god for people like you that don't shop around. *puts on his blinders* But it looks better.
“Have you even checked out the competition?”
“But it looks better!”
“Did you check out the specs?”
“But it looks better!!”
“Did you..
”BUT IT LOOKS BETTER!!!!!”

So right :D

[Thresher]

So right :D

My point exactly. Just because they slapped an Apple logo on it doesn't make it the best, not by a long shot.

I would love to have an ACD, they are beautiful to look at both in use and as a fixture, but for less money, there are monitors out there that display just as well (or better).

[ASP272]

Cool! I can finally afford . . . oh no, wait a minute, still a grand? Maybe not. :(

[mrzippy]

The DVI cable actually carries both an analog and digital signal. You can just pick up an adaptor that 'converts' VGA to DVI for very cheap. I know all my graphics cards that I have bought for PCs over the years that have both a VGA and a DVI port have came with an adaptor.

I still think Apple should of put a VGA port on the monitor, considering it would of increased it's usefulness dramatically.

You need to bear in mind there are 3 types of DVI:

DVI-D - digital only
DVI-A - analogue only
DVI-I - integrated digital and analogue

Therefore your graphics card / monitor needs either DVI-A or DVI-I to use analogue, does the Apple monitor support analogue connections?

(sorry just seen someone else posted this info.)

[JGowan]

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!! If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money :confused: :( :(This is pure TROLL at its best. If you had that kind of cash, you wouldn't be so up-in-arms about it, if you actually owned this stuff. Plus you didn't mention the special $599 Video card you would've had to get to run this stuff. Troll, be gone.

For a guy that's throwing around a TON of cash for Dual displays, Warranties (also a non-mentioned item you would've bought with a setup like that) major and very costly Ram which is a hefty commodity, your loud rampage sounds more than a little like "crying wolf" to me -- I just don't buy that you bought this stuff -- not at all. It just sounds like "I'll think of a way to really pitch a b!tch so I can throw Apple under the bus and get people to dislike them". Dude -- that system of which you claim you bought would've been around $12,000 US -- nobody spending that kind of money gives two craps about losing out on $600. Think before you start up the BS machine next time.

And, even if you did get all this (which I'm so seriously doubting [pics and receipts please]), then you would be smart enough to know that Apple has to continue to bob-and-weave with the pricing to keep making the money. First adopters always pay a little more. You have no reason to feel "myself ******** for 100% with it" -- Loser.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally Posted by gforce73111
I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!!
If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money

I just speced out the setup you posted above. Its over $10,000. Sorry but if you can afford a $10,000 setup the price difference before and after shouldn't be making you spit bullets.

[WannaWiki]

I just bought the 30" recently, so this kinda blows. It's been like a month or so so I probably can't get a price adjustment. I do a lot of webwork on my website www.WannaWiki.com (http://www.wannawiki.com) and the 30" makes everything sooooo much easier, it was well worth it anyway! Go Apple.

[Porchland]

Yeah, that would suck if you got a high-paying job. Be sure and let us all know how that works out.


Nobody noticed "The New Dual 2.3GHz Xserve G5" and "Xsan. Now shipping."?

Didn't see that yesterday...

Edit: oups, previous thread... didn't see that either. :D

---

Man oh man... Will we really see the iPod micro and "Mac mini" in a few days?

With my weird luck, here's what's going to happen: I've been waiting for years for a low-cost Apple desktop, but I'm sure I'll find a high-paying job at the last second and end up buying the top PowerMac instead. :rolleyes:

Stupid four-leaf clover.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by gforce73111 (a Macrumors Newbie)

I can understand all those positive reactions about the price drop, but I feel myself ******** for 100% with it. I've ordered my system end of June 2004.
A G5 dual 2.5/4Gb Ram/2x250Gb HD/2x30" displays.
I got my full order in November and now not even two month after I got my dream set-up they decide to lower the price of those expensive displays !!!! If I knew this before this would save me around 2.000€.
So thank you very much Steve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never gonna order the new top products right away. It's better to wait half a year/ a year. It's saves you a lot of money. :confused: :( :(


Look on the bright side, you have had almost two months to enjoy that awesome setup. I'm sure that it has given you hours of pleasure. Sadly in life there are always price decreases and something better coming along.

[Stella]

Look on the bright side, you have had almost two months to enjoy that awesome setup. I'm sure that it has given you hours of pleasure. Sadly in life there are always price decreases and something better coming along.

yea, damned right. I bought my dream PC... a 286 @ 16Mhz, 640KB with 40Meg hard disc, I paid around (Pounds) #399 Over Ten years ago...

... I'm so gutted, because these days they are almost giving them away if they don't get thrown away. Damned price drops!

:D

[Mainyehc]

Specifically addressing the issue of efficiently using Expose with an iBook/PowerBook, the first thing any new Apple notebook owner should do is to download and install a utility called Sidetrack. [...] I can get full use of Expose without my finger leaving the trackpad, or reaching for the keyboard with my other hand. I can't use my PowerBook without it :) Highly recommended.

Thanks for the great avice, I will give it to my friends who have iBooks. It's cool when there are people out there that give some useful advice, much unlike some other people that ignored I had a good point just because I used some stupid analogies. You know who you are, but no hard feelings ;) My post was huge and off-topic anyway... :rolleyes:

[B_Gates]

Apple lowered the prices on its line of LCD displays (http://www.apple.com/displays/) today across the board (as rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050103210104.shtml)), with the 20" model now falling below the $1000 mark. Pricing is as follows:

* $999 - 20" Cinema, 1680 x 1050 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $1799 - 23" Cinema HD, 1920 x 1200 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

* $2999 - 30" Cinema HD, 2560 x 1600 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports

Wow they went from insanely overpriced to way overpriced…. Wow I’m impressed…

[sushi]

yea, damned right. I bought my dream PC... a 286 @ 16Mhz, 640KB with 40Meg hard disc, I paid around (Pounds) #399 Over Ten years ago...
Yep, it is surprising how much prices have dropped.

I had a boss purchase a 386OD chip (33 Mhz) for $795. Gave him about a 10-20% improvement over his 386 16Mhz system.

And 32MB DIMMS were $3,200. Now you can get used ones for $5-8.

One thing for sure, computers and most electronic equipment for that matter are not investments. Er., well, unless you enjoy loosing money! :eek:

Sushi

[Pistol Pete]

So a 17 " would cost what, like $699 ? it would be too expensive for the miniMac, i'd rather take a 15 " at $499...

My two cents! :-)

Well id like to see a wireless 10-12" touchscreen!

just my 2 cents

[Platform]

My point exactly. Just because they slapped an Apple logo on it doesn't make it the best, not by a long shot.

I would love to have an ACD, they are beautiful to look at both in use and as a fixture, but for less money, there are monitors out there that display just as well (or better).

I like apple very much but some of their thing's espessially displays are so incredible expensive and I can get something good with DVI for 1/3 of the price :eek: well the future looks better

[Platform]

Yep, it is surprising how much prices have dropped.

I had a boss purchase a 386OD chip (33 Mhz) for $795. Gave him about a 10-20% improvement over his 386 16Mhz system.

And 32MB DIMMS were $3,200. Now you can get used ones for $5-8.

One thing for sure, computers and most electronic equipment for that matter are not investments. Er., well, unless you enjoy loosing money! :eek:

Sushi

Yes

a computer last for about 4 years max then you have to change to be able to run current software (unless you are a gamer 2 years max)

[edecarpe]

Sorry if this is a stupid question (I am a Mac newbie), but I am wondering why so many users here claim they'd rather go with a non Apple LCD monitor (Dell, HP, Samsung have all been cited as examples). I do have a Samsung 173P and while I feel it is a very good fit for my PC (good colors, good contrast, fast enough for video display), I am quite disapointed by the complete lack of compatibility with my brand new dual G5.

Don't get me wrong: I do have a picture (through the DVI-D connector), of course, but without any driver/or software (nor any button, appart from ON/OFF/INPUT-SELECTOR), it is rather impossible for me to calibrate that monitor (i.e. brightness and contrast). It is way to dark for proper video editing for instance, and I didn't find any particular software solution to solve this issue. Is there any? If not, then I am sure gonna get out and purchase a full MAC compatible LCD monitor soon (probably an Apple 23" cinema display)! But as far as I could read correctly, NONE of the aforementionned proposed non Apple solutions (Dell, HP...) are fully Mac compatible. Same thing as with my Samsung monitor: no Mac support means no software, no drivers. Therefore, I guess, there is no way we can calibrate these monitors for proper video display. This is a big NO NO as far as I am concerned, and I can't see why anyone would prefer these cheaper monitors to a properly calibrated Apple display!